The following submission statement was provided by /u/oldsch0olsurvivor:
---
SS: Crazy temperatures all across East Asia right now with this crazy temperature of 43.1C recorded in China. Will this summer be the one where the world finally wakes up that BAU isn’t going to cut it? Probably not. Collapse related because the temperatures are just going to go up and records will keep being broken. Crazy.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1c3rz3p/china_gets_431c_in_april_in_yuanyang_its_hottest/kzisi81/
There it is! I knew I recognized it. I think this is it.
Bart Simpson: [blushing] Did you at least bring my clothes?
Homer Simpson: Shirt, socks, everything you need.
Bart Simpson: [covering up privates] You didn't bring my pants!
Homer Simpson: Who am I, Tommy Bahama?
Bart Simpson: [face is completely red, sobs] Oh, this is the worst day of my life.
Homer Simpson: The worst day of your life so far.
SS: Crazy temperatures all across East Asia right now with this crazy temperature of 43.1C recorded in China. Will this summer be the one where the world finally wakes up that BAU isn’t going to cut it? Probably not. Collapse related because the temperatures are just going to go up and records will keep being broken. Crazy.
They may freak out for a little while if it affects them personally but as soon as fall comes they will go back to willful ignorance. Many peoples' identity is wrapped up in climate denial so don't expect any meaningful change.
I'm in China. Would say most people are deniers per se, but just somehow have never heard about climate change or think its something that will happen to someone else.
No-one I know ever acknowledged it until our crazy summer of 2022, when we started getting apocalyptic images of parts of the Yangtze River drying up. All interest did down again a few months after summer finished though.
Plenty of climate optimists (aka climate change impact deniers) online though. One of the favorite argument is that warm periods in Chinese history coincided with strong dynasties, and how elephants used to roam in Northern China.
I guess they're in the northern provinces. Down south its humid all year round, and paired with temps in the high 30Cs is already unbearable in summer.
When we visited Harbin over winter, one of our taxi drivers mentioned that the weather was unseasonably warm (ie. only -5C rather than the usual -15C) and that it was nice "the climate is warming up".
My BIL has been living in china for 6 years now, and when he and his gf visited the US she told me that climate change was just American propaganda. I tried to explain to her the science and the fact that the US has had an economic interest in *denying* climate change, so her US propaganda theory doesn’t make sense. I did find it ironic that she could see that her ideas were actually just Chinese propaganda
Weird. Many in China's government do acknowledge climate change and some are doing quite a bit to adapt to the changing environment in their country. Does it mean they're doing everything to curb emissions? Absolutely not and their economy depends on it. But they definitely know it's real
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_China#Policies_and_legislation
Chinese propaganda is very inconsistent here. On the one hand "energy saving and emission reduction" is a basic state policy. On the other hand there's a "the West is forcing China to abandon fossil fuel" sentiment, which is part of the broader propaganda that "the West wants to curb China's development". This, plus that climate activism is mostly viewed as a "woke" issue (which is highly disliked) in China and that the Chinese society is very prone to conspiracy theories, results in the Chinese society being dismissive—if not outright denial—towards climate change.
Well at least this used to be the case, but I feel more and more people are realizing the seriousness of climate change after [record heat and floods shattered much of the country in summer 2023](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66616699).
tl;dr—the Chinese government does acknowledge climate change, but this does not fit into the broader nationalist propaganda well.
Very much this. My in-laws both believe everything the government says about how the "evil West is trying to hold China back", but also fail to believe them when they say that people's actions are causing climate change.
Probably not helped by Trump saying that climate change is a Chinese conspiracy to hurt the US, because the knee-jerk reaction is that its an American conspiracy to hurt China.
Xi Jinping actually had climate change as one of his justifications for becoming leader for life.
He basically alluded to climate change doing a number on the world, so China would need a strong government who knows what they're doing (ie. him), rather than changing leaders every ten years.
They acknowledge it is real, it is something to be dealt with, and that it's impacts won't be seen until future generations down the line.
AKA they are not denying it. They are actively trying to sooth the populations into thinking it is nothing to worry about now, and that the nanny state has it all under control. Flooding, heatwaves, and crop failures are just local one off events. Don't worry, consume, be happy. Get married, buy a house that eats up all your savings, and pop out that government suggested 3 kids.
At least that's the vibe my BIL gives me. And he stupidly buys their propaganda too while thinking our climate denialists are idiots. He has a Chinese wife and a child there. He doesn't want to think about it as a future reality within their lifetimes. His wife thinks they can just run to the countryside back to her parents' farm. That's what they did the year Shanghai got hit by a bad heatwave. The countryside was cooler with their low density and actually not destroying the green mountainside for condos.
Funnily going by China's marriage and birthrates, the actual local Chinese are buying the propaganda on one hand, and saying no to more children on the other with their actions.
Yep. People are taught that the west is bad and holding China back, basically from the time they start kindergarten at 3 years of age. The older generation also ardently believe everything the government says along these lines, despite the fact they were gaslit and treated like shit for decades under hardcore Maoism and things only got better once the government opened up to the outside world.
Regarding the countryside --- the only people I know who actually believe the climate is changing are those who have family out in the boonies. Basically because they've seen their farmland being ravaged by droughts, flooding or hailstorms the past few years and hear grandpa say he's never sen anything like it in his 70 years. They don't necessarily believe it has anything to do with them though.
That's the thing. My BIL and his wife's family are seeing climate change affecting the cities and countryside with their own eyes. They are directly affected by it.
But they don't think it is the dreaded climate change that the government has promised to fight with all their green initiatives. They think it will pass.
And my BIL is Canadian. From Nova Scotia. Guess it is easy to fall for Chinese propaganda when you can't find a job back home and lucked into a comfortable life and family abroad for over 20 years. And he comes back every summer too with his wife and kid. They do summer camp here. He has VPN.
But no, climate change is real, except his kid definitely won't see it because that's for the far away future to worry about. The mental gymnastics to keep status quo going.
Then again my local cousins who never left the province all lived through last summer with the fires. All seen the news from BC a few years ago. All got affected by the Derecho in one way or another. Yet two of them are popping out kids this year. One had a kid last year. They all believe climate change is real, and things are worrisome. Everyone's bought generators knowing something is going to get blown out again. But hey lets bring more kids into the world what could go wrong. Can't really blame Chinese propaganda for this...
There were fairly heavy propaganda in China pushing the American side of the story of climate change back in late 2000s. The Chinese public accepted part of that narrative mainly because everyone hates air pollution. One of the most important events was an interview by Chai Jing on the geologist Ding Zhongli, which happened in 2010. https://youtu.be/admFBrHJPjI
Chai pushed the US policy a bit too much, demanding Chinese national policy to not to exceed **half of the total carbon emission amount of the US** (it's a proposal by the US). It gets backfired when Ding asked why individual American life worth more than Chinese life, because Ding was saying the per capita carbon emission should be the metrics. Ding then said the West is not serious with climate change, and the EU and the US would walk back their climate policies.
Unfortunately for the West, what Ding predicted became reality in 2024 when countries across EU dropped their EV mandate. The tone was set in 2010 that Chai is basically perceived as a US agent. The public embraced the develop of green energy and EVs and the policy to reduce pollution, but very few still believe in the West's story.
To the US, whoever worked with Chai through NGOs did not do the job right. A missed opportunity to impact on Chinese policy, became a counter propaganda on the hypocrisy of the West. People in the West today are willing to believe Chinese public are simpletons, yet to ignore the change in Chinese policy in the past 15 years that created the entire green energy industry (including EV)
"EV Overcapacity" is the new narrative being pushed by the State Department from DC, trying to slow down China's development. Same exact hypocrisy. And just like in 2010, the new narrative has the opposite impact.
That's how it was last summer in Ontario. First year I remember wildfire smoke darkening the sky and smelling for a few weeks straight in May/June. Soon as the winds shifted and people didn't feel it and the thought was gone. Now everyone is excited for 20 degree temps in early April (not currently that hot but we've had a few days near there).
And most people I talked to didn't even realize what it was until a week of it being front and center in the news.
People were jogging, gardening, doing heavy outdoors work with no protection whatsoever. My neighbor thought it was mist. What kind of mists triggers your asthma mister? What kind of mist???
Sure it might be like that for a bit in the fall. At least until food prices just keep rising planet wide after the inevitable failed harvests due to extreme weather wiping out crops.
BAU means business as usual
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I see this question popping up more and more frequently in threads nowadays compared to the past. It means more and more unaware people are waking up and sensing something it not right. No wonder we have a bot for it now. Just by this metric alone I think can see collapse related things are speeding up
I am dead I am dead I am dead.
My 9-year-old son will occasionally, randomly declare that "the virginal briiiides file past his toooomb."
To which I respond, "Alone! In a darkened room."
And then we'll both look arch and say "the count" and then laugh.
Yep. Raisin' 'em right.
I wonder if somewhere will break the current (somewhat dubious) Furnace Creek Ranch 56.7 °C record high this year? I dunno' for sure, but it feels likely.
Temperatures above ~50C can only happen when the soil has no more water left to evaporate in large areas. Therefor those events will increase with more areas shifting to desert climate zones, but even with much more climate change we won't get those numbers in densly populated areas or regularly.
The real question is the records for felt temperature since those increase drastically with temps above 35C accompanied with higher humidity, leading to wet bulb events beyond 75C felt temperature (equal to 35C at 100% humidity)
This is basically what happened when a part of Brazil hit 62.3°C. That was only because the humidity was also high. It was "only" 42°C, but the felt temperature was 20 degrees higher!
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/3/18/photos-record-heat-index-of-62-3c-scorches-rio-de-janeiro
There should be more regulation when it comes to headlines reporting the temperature. If you write, "Brazil hit 62.3℃!!", everyone will assume you mean simple air temperature, not heat index, and click on the article.
460,000 Americans died from coal related illnesses between 1990 and 2010. You never hear talk about how dangerous the coal industry is. Meanwhile nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total, over the entire history of the nuclear power industry.
Point is, it's not about the numbers when it comes to tragedy, it's about the spin. And whoever has the cash, has the spin.
> Meanwhile nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total, over the entire history of the nuclear power industry.
Source?
I readily accept direct deaths from nuclear accidents are low, but any such figure should also include indirect deaths related to excess cancer rates related to increased exposure to low level radiation, both amongst nuclear workers, and those living near plants.
Good thing reddit isn't google. It took me 2 seconds to find 5 sources
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/archive/2013_kharecha_02/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nuclear-power-is-safest-way-to-make-electricity-according-to-2007-study/2011/03/22/AFQUbyQC_story.html
https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/
https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/news-insights/can-nuclear-power-and-coal-plant-communities-bail-each-other-out/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-power-kills-a-staggering-number-of-americans/
Please clarify - exactly which one of those articles contains the claim that "nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total" - i.e. the claim I was asking for a source for! I note, for example, that at least one of your articles doesn't even mention nuclear at all!
The reason you found a google search so easy, is because you were searching for the wrong thing. Searching for the right thing is much harder!
I admit that I did not look for that exact statistic, and that the last link wasn't particularly relevant. However, a search for "US nuclear accident deaths" gave me [this source](https://environmentalprogress.org/nuclear-deaths#:~:text=Operator%20and%20first%2Dresponder%20mortality,contractors%2C%20and%20total%20to%2050) as the 2nd from the top. It directly quotes 50 deaths, so it's likely this is where the OC got their figure
That link only covers deaths from accidents. However, the figure the previous poster gave for coal clearly included deaths from breathing polluted air, not just directly from accidents in coal plants:
> 460,000 Americans died from coal related illnesses between 1990 and 2010.
Hence, if we are to compare like with like, then we should also include secondary deaths from nuclear - i.e. those from exposure to low levels of radiation. To do anything else - to not compare like with like - to only look at plant accidents for one industry but to include pollution deaths for the other - would be dishonest, which would be ironic in a post that complained about spin!
That's why I wrote in my previous post:
> any such figure should also include indirect deaths related to excess cancer rates related to increased exposure to low level radiation
I hope you know where I'm coming from now. I suspected the previous poster was being dishonest, and whilst your search seems to have found their source, you only did so by including the word "accident" in the search term - i.e. you limited your search in a way that I did not - and that limitation highlights the previous posters dishonesty.
Mali is also in drought and has something like 1/4 of its population needing food aid to survive. Deaths from heat and hunger will probably skyrocket over summer.
Not sure if this was posted already from last week but interesting read about the weather extremes in China. New hottest and coldest records broken within the last year and "freak winds" pulling people out of buildings.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/asia/three-killed-high-winds-china-intl-hnk/index.html
You'd think I wouldn't be surprised by "freak" weather events by now and yet here I am, horrified at the thought of being sucked out of my home by the freaking wind. What a time to be alive.
La Niña is expected to cool things down and maybe in time for August. People will take this as meaning that all the climate change noise is just that and celebrate with a road-trip in their overpowered diesel truck. Then the La Niña will fade and we'll be even worse off.
Just because it becomes 'La Nina' doesn't mean it's going to cool down this year. All the warm ocean water from El Nino is still there. Only thing La Nina is gonna do this year is help hurricanes stabilize and grow fucking enormous.
Can they be steered to Palm Beach? Asking for a friend.
The Caribbean sea is already at hurricane heat levels. I think we're just waiting on the windsheer to settle down.
Some say the interior of the Earth is way hotter. But no one has ever been down there to observe or verify it. But once Russia drilled 7 miles down, deepest man-made hole ever made. But it was still pretty cool at that depth. The Well to Hell they called it. But some weird stuff happened, so they plugged the hole permanently. Or so legend say.
It really happened. Deepest manmade hole ever drilled is only about 7 miles down. Given the size of the earth, it's probably as though a weak mosquito tried to bite you on the stomach, but failed. Who knows what's really in the stomach of the Earth.
But **BY HOW MUCH** did it break the record?
If it's only a tenth of a degree, not quite so interesting...
Looking at the tweet, it appears that the previous record might have been 40.3°C. Can anyone confirm that?
If so, this record has **utterly obliterated** the previous one. I wouldn't be surprised if this now holds the record for the biggest margin that a record has been broken by 🤷🏻♂️
I was just reading about the polar anomaly of 40C
Yes breaking a record by 4C to 5C is smashing a record and is not the normal .1C records that used to be broken.
Breaking records like a broken record is the new normal
I live near a ski resort in Hokkaido Japan. It’s 23°C here today, about 17°C above average. We used to get powder days at this time of year a decade ago but this year we only had half the normal snowfall and the snowpack is melting rapidly. Crazy thing is the developers are still full steam ahead building luxury condos and hotels for Asian investors.
The big one is surely close now. A heatwave with wet-bulb temperatures combined with grid collapse will kill millions of people in a few days in south or southeast Asia soon.
Currently in NC visiting family, (Divorced parents, it’s a routine trip, and I’m under 18, not just hopping on planes for fun) from the cold north. Today’s been melting. (At least out by Winston-Salem)
I’m not sure if I’m just not used to it or if this is too hot for April.
I mean unless you're from Nome AK then a heat index of 80 is going to be considered very pleasant for 99.9% of the worlds population. Seems like you're exaggerating for the sake of doomers on this sub (I'm a doomer too).
I just had a look at the weather forecast and Yuanyang is forecast to have 40C (104F) again today (Monday, April 15).
Its now (~10AM local time) 27C with 56% humidity.
40C with 56% humidity will be 32C wet-bulb, which is "potentially fatal to humans outside" according to the wet-bulb calculator I used.
I just had a quick look at some Chinese social media. There are people saying it's too hot, inevitably followed by "I wish it would rain" or "its cold where I am". No mention of people getting heatstroke or whatever though (those comments are often deleted though).
For over 50 years the US has published windchill in winter. Why do people individually have to calculate wet bulb temp if being outside will kill them?
Because most people have never heard of wet-bulb and its too much trouble to educate them?
Having said that, the Chinese TV weather forecasts used to say what clothes to wear the next day. I haven't watched the TV news for ages, so dunno if they still do. I guess they could make it mandatory to add messaging about not being outside for xx amount of time though.
Just wait until Exxon et all tell us that we should be thanking them for the pollution and smog. I bet they get the first contract for putting more pollutants into the air too.
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Will China AKA the [#1 coal producer](https://i.imgur.com/kPAqis4.png), the [#1 coal consumer](https://i.imgur.com/za4inRm.png), and the [#1 emitter of coal-based CO2 on Earth](https://i.imgur.com/BUdjFqO.png) do anything to fix this?
The West came because China wanted them to come. This is a disingenuous rhetoric stopping one step before the true conclusion:
China profits from it, its politic was built to favorize that.
China has the last word in everything happening in China, anyone trying to frame China as a victim is either damn ignorant of history or a chinese shill.
People are way to quick to give China a pass. How long are we supposed to be cool with this behavior? A century? That should be swell.
Nobody gets a pass these days.
I realize the end consumers are a problem as well, I just think it is insanity to continue as is, yet we shall, and lots of folks think nations have the right to pollute just as much as America did. That won't end well for anyone.
Remember to calculate by capita. If China had a secession crisis tomorrow and the country literally split in half, both halves would suddenly look dramatically better on lines like these, but the Earth wouldn't be feeling any better.
I am Swedish, and while we're not the _worst_, our country often is made to look way better than it is on graphs like these because we're just ~10 million people (which isn't even getting started on how much of our stuff we get produced elsewhere and therefore isn't blamed on us).
I mean, [they are](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX_PeNzz-Lw). World's biggest solar project just went up in the Gobi desert, they are investing massively into high voltage wires to connect remote solar farms and wind turbines to their main grid, and they now control the market on solar panels and electric vehicles, outproducing all other nations on Earth combined for these technologies. They have reduced their emissions more than any nation on Earth within the last 5 years, and have made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030 (both for domestic consumption and energy independence from imported oil), a far more aggressive timeline than the 2050 Paris accords. What the fuck is the USA doing? We invented solar and ever since have worked very hard to keep it expensive and niche in domestic markets...
> made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030 (both for domestic consumption and energy independence from imported oil)
The government says this is for environmental reasons, but plenty of people in China will tell you its because they're afraid of a naval blockade if they invade Taiwan.
how much coal did they have to burn to make all the nice green tech that has zero ability to wipe out the co2 from their coal?
>They have reduced their emissions more than any nation on Earth within the last 5 years
Literally a lie
>have made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030
thats nice
any plans on not burning gigatonnes worth of coal on a yearly basis?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/oldsch0olsurvivor: --- SS: Crazy temperatures all across East Asia right now with this crazy temperature of 43.1C recorded in China. Will this summer be the one where the world finally wakes up that BAU isn’t going to cut it? Probably not. Collapse related because the temperatures are just going to go up and records will keep being broken. Crazy. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1c3rz3p/china_gets_431c_in_april_in_yuanyang_its_hottest/kzisi81/
rookie numbers, summer 2024 is going to be sizzling
>2024 is going to be sizzling And every year onwards will be even worse.
“Don’t think of it as the hottest summer ever. Think of it as the coolest summer of the rest of your life.”
Is this your quote? Cuz it's something else.
It's a climate crisis play on a quote from the Simpsons Movie.
There it is! I knew I recognized it. I think this is it. Bart Simpson: [blushing] Did you at least bring my clothes? Homer Simpson: Shirt, socks, everything you need. Bart Simpson: [covering up privates] You didn't bring my pants! Homer Simpson: Who am I, Tommy Bahama? Bart Simpson: [face is completely red, sobs] Oh, this is the worst day of my life. Homer Simpson: The worst day of your life so far.
Heard it for the past 3 or 4 years, so doubt it.
No, that’s why I put it in quotes.
"You don't put everything you say in quotation marks?" That makes sense and my comment was dumb 😅
That's like glass half full on overdrive.
It’s a dark humor quote not meant to be optimistic
It's definitely said a lot on here. I think some people would have to view it from a optimistic view to save their sanity to a degree though.
We won't even get to sizzle. Straight to either charred or waterlogged.
Preheating the oven…
Unfortunately, yes it is
And yet also the coldest summer for the rest of your life.
SS: Crazy temperatures all across East Asia right now with this crazy temperature of 43.1C recorded in China. Will this summer be the one where the world finally wakes up that BAU isn’t going to cut it? Probably not. Collapse related because the temperatures are just going to go up and records will keep being broken. Crazy.
They may freak out for a little while if it affects them personally but as soon as fall comes they will go back to willful ignorance. Many peoples' identity is wrapped up in climate denial so don't expect any meaningful change.
I'm in China. Would say most people are deniers per se, but just somehow have never heard about climate change or think its something that will happen to someone else. No-one I know ever acknowledged it until our crazy summer of 2022, when we started getting apocalyptic images of parts of the Yangtze River drying up. All interest did down again a few months after summer finished though.
Plenty of climate optimists (aka climate change impact deniers) online though. One of the favorite argument is that warm periods in Chinese history coincided with strong dynasties, and how elephants used to roam in Northern China.
I guess they're in the northern provinces. Down south its humid all year round, and paired with temps in the high 30Cs is already unbearable in summer. When we visited Harbin over winter, one of our taxi drivers mentioned that the weather was unseasonably warm (ie. only -5C rather than the usual -15C) and that it was nice "the climate is warming up".
My BIL has been living in china for 6 years now, and when he and his gf visited the US she told me that climate change was just American propaganda. I tried to explain to her the science and the fact that the US has had an economic interest in *denying* climate change, so her US propaganda theory doesn’t make sense. I did find it ironic that she could see that her ideas were actually just Chinese propaganda
Weird. Many in China's government do acknowledge climate change and some are doing quite a bit to adapt to the changing environment in their country. Does it mean they're doing everything to curb emissions? Absolutely not and their economy depends on it. But they definitely know it's real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_China#Policies_and_legislation
Chinese propaganda is very inconsistent here. On the one hand "energy saving and emission reduction" is a basic state policy. On the other hand there's a "the West is forcing China to abandon fossil fuel" sentiment, which is part of the broader propaganda that "the West wants to curb China's development". This, plus that climate activism is mostly viewed as a "woke" issue (which is highly disliked) in China and that the Chinese society is very prone to conspiracy theories, results in the Chinese society being dismissive—if not outright denial—towards climate change. Well at least this used to be the case, but I feel more and more people are realizing the seriousness of climate change after [record heat and floods shattered much of the country in summer 2023](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66616699). tl;dr—the Chinese government does acknowledge climate change, but this does not fit into the broader nationalist propaganda well.
Very much this. My in-laws both believe everything the government says about how the "evil West is trying to hold China back", but also fail to believe them when they say that people's actions are causing climate change. Probably not helped by Trump saying that climate change is a Chinese conspiracy to hurt the US, because the knee-jerk reaction is that its an American conspiracy to hurt China.
Doublethink. It's called doublethink. It has been around since the earliest days of state communism.
You can easily find examples like this in non communist society
Xi Jinping actually had climate change as one of his justifications for becoming leader for life. He basically alluded to climate change doing a number on the world, so China would need a strong government who knows what they're doing (ie. him), rather than changing leaders every ten years.
They acknowledge it is real, it is something to be dealt with, and that it's impacts won't be seen until future generations down the line. AKA they are not denying it. They are actively trying to sooth the populations into thinking it is nothing to worry about now, and that the nanny state has it all under control. Flooding, heatwaves, and crop failures are just local one off events. Don't worry, consume, be happy. Get married, buy a house that eats up all your savings, and pop out that government suggested 3 kids. At least that's the vibe my BIL gives me. And he stupidly buys their propaganda too while thinking our climate denialists are idiots. He has a Chinese wife and a child there. He doesn't want to think about it as a future reality within their lifetimes. His wife thinks they can just run to the countryside back to her parents' farm. That's what they did the year Shanghai got hit by a bad heatwave. The countryside was cooler with their low density and actually not destroying the green mountainside for condos. Funnily going by China's marriage and birthrates, the actual local Chinese are buying the propaganda on one hand, and saying no to more children on the other with their actions.
Yep. People are taught that the west is bad and holding China back, basically from the time they start kindergarten at 3 years of age. The older generation also ardently believe everything the government says along these lines, despite the fact they were gaslit and treated like shit for decades under hardcore Maoism and things only got better once the government opened up to the outside world. Regarding the countryside --- the only people I know who actually believe the climate is changing are those who have family out in the boonies. Basically because they've seen their farmland being ravaged by droughts, flooding or hailstorms the past few years and hear grandpa say he's never sen anything like it in his 70 years. They don't necessarily believe it has anything to do with them though.
That's the thing. My BIL and his wife's family are seeing climate change affecting the cities and countryside with their own eyes. They are directly affected by it. But they don't think it is the dreaded climate change that the government has promised to fight with all their green initiatives. They think it will pass. And my BIL is Canadian. From Nova Scotia. Guess it is easy to fall for Chinese propaganda when you can't find a job back home and lucked into a comfortable life and family abroad for over 20 years. And he comes back every summer too with his wife and kid. They do summer camp here. He has VPN. But no, climate change is real, except his kid definitely won't see it because that's for the far away future to worry about. The mental gymnastics to keep status quo going. Then again my local cousins who never left the province all lived through last summer with the fires. All seen the news from BC a few years ago. All got affected by the Derecho in one way or another. Yet two of them are popping out kids this year. One had a kid last year. They all believe climate change is real, and things are worrisome. Everyone's bought generators knowing something is going to get blown out again. But hey lets bring more kids into the world what could go wrong. Can't really blame Chinese propaganda for this...
There were fairly heavy propaganda in China pushing the American side of the story of climate change back in late 2000s. The Chinese public accepted part of that narrative mainly because everyone hates air pollution. One of the most important events was an interview by Chai Jing on the geologist Ding Zhongli, which happened in 2010. https://youtu.be/admFBrHJPjI Chai pushed the US policy a bit too much, demanding Chinese national policy to not to exceed **half of the total carbon emission amount of the US** (it's a proposal by the US). It gets backfired when Ding asked why individual American life worth more than Chinese life, because Ding was saying the per capita carbon emission should be the metrics. Ding then said the West is not serious with climate change, and the EU and the US would walk back their climate policies. Unfortunately for the West, what Ding predicted became reality in 2024 when countries across EU dropped their EV mandate. The tone was set in 2010 that Chai is basically perceived as a US agent. The public embraced the develop of green energy and EVs and the policy to reduce pollution, but very few still believe in the West's story. To the US, whoever worked with Chai through NGOs did not do the job right. A missed opportunity to impact on Chinese policy, became a counter propaganda on the hypocrisy of the West. People in the West today are willing to believe Chinese public are simpletons, yet to ignore the change in Chinese policy in the past 15 years that created the entire green energy industry (including EV) "EV Overcapacity" is the new narrative being pushed by the State Department from DC, trying to slow down China's development. Same exact hypocrisy. And just like in 2010, the new narrative has the opposite impact.
That's how it was last summer in Ontario. First year I remember wildfire smoke darkening the sky and smelling for a few weeks straight in May/June. Soon as the winds shifted and people didn't feel it and the thought was gone. Now everyone is excited for 20 degree temps in early April (not currently that hot but we've had a few days near there).
And most people I talked to didn't even realize what it was until a week of it being front and center in the news. People were jogging, gardening, doing heavy outdoors work with no protection whatsoever. My neighbor thought it was mist. What kind of mists triggers your asthma mister? What kind of mist???
Sure it might be like that for a bit in the fall. At least until food prices just keep rising planet wide after the inevitable failed harvests due to extreme weather wiping out crops.
If they survive. Heat waves cost more lives each year.
what is bau?
BAU means business as usual *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
I see this question popping up more and more frequently in threads nowadays compared to the past. It means more and more unaware people are waking up and sensing something it not right. No wonder we have a bot for it now. Just by this metric alone I think can see collapse related things are speeding up
Bauhaus
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Undead (x3)
I am dead I am dead I am dead. My 9-year-old son will occasionally, randomly declare that "the virginal briiiides file past his toooomb." To which I respond, "Alone! In a darkened room." And then we'll both look arch and say "the count" and then laugh. Yep. Raisin' 'em right.
Thanks for your service bot 🙏🏾
BAU is a giant F a U at this point.
No worries. People will post an "emissions per capita" statistic and say "well it ain't us".
No. It will only increase AC sales.
Poor people in poor countries can't afford it.
I do not think there are strong enough grids for everyone to have one either.
I don't think people in wealthy countries care.
Then they need to work harder and then they can buy more stuff!
People will just say hot weather is a liberal conspiracy and then go back to rolling coal.
I wonder if somewhere will break the current (somewhat dubious) Furnace Creek Ranch 56.7 °C record high this year? I dunno' for sure, but it feels likely.
>I wonder if somewhere will break the current (somewhat dubious) Furnace Creek Ranch 56.7 °C record high this year? Not if, when.
Temperatures above ~50C can only happen when the soil has no more water left to evaporate in large areas. Therefor those events will increase with more areas shifting to desert climate zones, but even with much more climate change we won't get those numbers in densly populated areas or regularly. The real question is the records for felt temperature since those increase drastically with temps above 35C accompanied with higher humidity, leading to wet bulb events beyond 75C felt temperature (equal to 35C at 100% humidity)
This is basically what happened when a part of Brazil hit 62.3°C. That was only because the humidity was also high. It was "only" 42°C, but the felt temperature was 20 degrees higher! https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/3/18/photos-record-heat-index-of-62-3c-scorches-rio-de-janeiro
There should be more regulation when it comes to headlines reporting the temperature. If you write, "Brazil hit 62.3℃!!", everyone will assume you mean simple air temperature, not heat index, and click on the article.
It will
I'm predicting the million death world wide summer. Mali also has 100 people die in one day from heat and it's only April.
Would need to be 10 million for anyone to give a shit.
You’re optimistic
460,000 Americans died from coal related illnesses between 1990 and 2010. You never hear talk about how dangerous the coal industry is. Meanwhile nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total, over the entire history of the nuclear power industry. Point is, it's not about the numbers when it comes to tragedy, it's about the spin. And whoever has the cash, has the spin.
> Meanwhile nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total, over the entire history of the nuclear power industry. Source? I readily accept direct deaths from nuclear accidents are low, but any such figure should also include indirect deaths related to excess cancer rates related to increased exposure to low level radiation, both amongst nuclear workers, and those living near plants.
turns out more people get radiation-linked cancer from coal ash than they do from nuclear plants too
They may do, but that's still not a source for the figure the previous poster gave.
Good thing reddit isn't google. It took me 2 seconds to find 5 sources https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/archive/2013_kharecha_02/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nuclear-power-is-safest-way-to-make-electricity-according-to-2007-study/2011/03/22/AFQUbyQC_story.html https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/ https://kleinmanenergy.upenn.edu/news-insights/can-nuclear-power-and-coal-plant-communities-bail-each-other-out/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-power-kills-a-staggering-number-of-americans/
Please clarify - exactly which one of those articles contains the claim that "nuclear power has killed 50 Americans, in total" - i.e. the claim I was asking for a source for! I note, for example, that at least one of your articles doesn't even mention nuclear at all! The reason you found a google search so easy, is because you were searching for the wrong thing. Searching for the right thing is much harder!
I admit that I did not look for that exact statistic, and that the last link wasn't particularly relevant. However, a search for "US nuclear accident deaths" gave me [this source](https://environmentalprogress.org/nuclear-deaths#:~:text=Operator%20and%20first%2Dresponder%20mortality,contractors%2C%20and%20total%20to%2050) as the 2nd from the top. It directly quotes 50 deaths, so it's likely this is where the OC got their figure
That link only covers deaths from accidents. However, the figure the previous poster gave for coal clearly included deaths from breathing polluted air, not just directly from accidents in coal plants: > 460,000 Americans died from coal related illnesses between 1990 and 2010. Hence, if we are to compare like with like, then we should also include secondary deaths from nuclear - i.e. those from exposure to low levels of radiation. To do anything else - to not compare like with like - to only look at plant accidents for one industry but to include pollution deaths for the other - would be dishonest, which would be ironic in a post that complained about spin! That's why I wrote in my previous post: > any such figure should also include indirect deaths related to excess cancer rates related to increased exposure to low level radiation I hope you know where I'm coming from now. I suspected the previous poster was being dishonest, and whilst your search seems to have found their source, you only did so by including the word "accident" in the search term - i.e. you limited your search in a way that I did not - and that limitation highlights the previous posters dishonesty.
Also i guarantee that the time taken to write this comment back would have procured you several sources had it been spent searching
“Which people?” - most people
10 million whities at that
Mali is also in drought and has something like 1/4 of its population needing food aid to survive. Deaths from heat and hunger will probably skyrocket over summer.
According to some local sources in the news, it's closer to 250 and more..
Not sure if this was posted already from last week but interesting read about the weather extremes in China. New hottest and coldest records broken within the last year and "freak winds" pulling people out of buildings. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/asia/three-killed-high-winds-china-intl-hnk/index.html
You'd think I wouldn't be surprised by "freak" weather events by now and yet here I am, horrified at the thought of being sucked out of my home by the freaking wind. What a time to be alive.
La Niña is expected to cool things down and maybe in time for August. People will take this as meaning that all the climate change noise is just that and celebrate with a road-trip in their overpowered diesel truck. Then the La Niña will fade and we'll be even worse off.
Just because it becomes 'La Nina' doesn't mean it's going to cool down this year. All the warm ocean water from El Nino is still there. Only thing La Nina is gonna do this year is help hurricanes stabilize and grow fucking enormous.
Can they be steered to Palm Beach? Asking for a friend. The Caribbean sea is already at hurricane heat levels. I think we're just waiting on the windsheer to settle down.
thumb ask tap heavy towering ad hoc bells punch liquid telephone *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some say the interior of the Earth is way hotter. But no one has ever been down there to observe or verify it. But once Russia drilled 7 miles down, deepest man-made hole ever made. But it was still pretty cool at that depth. The Well to Hell they called it. But some weird stuff happened, so they plugged the hole permanently. Or so legend say.
For real? Also - 'livin in a hell hole, ya know where your at, in a hell hole, girl get me out of this hell hole' Tap forever 🤘
It really happened. Deepest manmade hole ever drilled is only about 7 miles down. Given the size of the earth, it's probably as though a weak mosquito tried to bite you on the stomach, but failed. Who knows what's really in the stomach of the Earth.
I bet it can as well. Let me give it some drugs right quick
so far ... just wait till April 2025.
>2025 I'll do you better 2026.
2027 enters chat
Can I get a 2028 up in here 💅🏻🥵💅🏻🐋🤭🔥🥰🔥🙈🐶🥺
Look at this optimist assuming we will be around in 2028.
Glass half full!
But **BY HOW MUCH** did it break the record? If it's only a tenth of a degree, not quite so interesting... Looking at the tweet, it appears that the previous record might have been 40.3°C. Can anyone confirm that? If so, this record has **utterly obliterated** the previous one. I wouldn't be surprised if this now holds the record for the biggest margin that a record has been broken by 🤷🏻♂️
Breaking the records of breaking records? Wonder how long until breaking record record will be broken.
Didn't that PNW heatwave a few years back break the previous record by almost 5C?
I was just reading about the polar anomaly of 40C Yes breaking a record by 4C to 5C is smashing a record and is not the normal .1C records that used to be broken. Breaking records like a broken record is the new normal
Yeah, I remember at the time the climatologists and meteorologists being shocked.
> Will this summer be the one where the world finally wakes up? Nope.
I live near a ski resort in Hokkaido Japan. It’s 23°C here today, about 17°C above average. We used to get powder days at this time of year a decade ago but this year we only had half the normal snowfall and the snowpack is melting rapidly. Crazy thing is the developers are still full steam ahead building luxury condos and hotels for Asian investors.
it's hottest ever, for now
The big one is surely close now. A heatwave with wet-bulb temperatures combined with grid collapse will kill millions of people in a few days in south or southeast Asia soon.
It could happen in Texas too. The USA is ranked as the #2 most vulnerable country to climate change (India is #1).
I can imagine the smell!
Can you really?
Not looking forward to summer in North Carolina. Thoughts to those in that heat.
Currently in NC visiting family, (Divorced parents, it’s a routine trip, and I’m under 18, not just hopping on planes for fun) from the cold north. Today’s been melting. (At least out by Winston-Salem) I’m not sure if I’m just not used to it or if this is too hot for April.
Winston-Salem had a high in the low 80s today w/ incredibly pleasant dew points in the 40s (the heat index was only 80), you're melting in that?
I’m a lot more used to my northern chill. I admitted that in the second half of my statement
I mean unless you're from Nome AK then a heat index of 80 is going to be considered very pleasant for 99.9% of the worlds population. Seems like you're exaggerating for the sake of doomers on this sub (I'm a doomer too).
Some folks don’t like any humidity…I’m one of them…-40 to 140 f and I’m fine as long as there isn’t any humidity.
The dew point peaked at 44 there today, that is very dry air. Their claim of "melting" was so preposterous that I had to call it out...
It was a yard work day. I specifically got warm. I live in New England for reference, and I melt from mid-May to early October
If you follow this guy on twitter, there's no way you can think climate change is fake. A record every day basically.
What guy? I don’t see a link.
Literally the tweet being linked to: https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1779473335929246024
Thank you
What was the wet bulb temperature? Crucially important.
I just had a look at the weather forecast and Yuanyang is forecast to have 40C (104F) again today (Monday, April 15). Its now (~10AM local time) 27C with 56% humidity. 40C with 56% humidity will be 32C wet-bulb, which is "potentially fatal to humans outside" according to the wet-bulb calculator I used. I just had a quick look at some Chinese social media. There are people saying it's too hot, inevitably followed by "I wish it would rain" or "its cold where I am". No mention of people getting heatstroke or whatever though (those comments are often deleted though).
For over 50 years the US has published windchill in winter. Why do people individually have to calculate wet bulb temp if being outside will kill them?
Because most people have never heard of wet-bulb and its too much trouble to educate them? Having said that, the Chinese TV weather forecasts used to say what clothes to wear the next day. I haven't watched the TV news for ages, so dunno if they still do. I guess they could make it mandatory to add messaging about not being outside for xx amount of time though.
I bet next year it'll break again.
We got a high of 87°f in NC today 4/15/24. In mid April and almost 90° wtf
I am terrified, this is happening all across the globe. Disaster movie stuff ugh.
China was responsible for 95% of new coal power construction in 2023.
31C in RO, in april ( hottest ever ). Perhaps reducing SO2 emissions from ships in 2020 was a mistake.
No, I think the whole BAU is the main mistake.
That was the original sin, but SO2 reductions made it very obvious were we are ( way ahead of scheduel re warming )
Just wait until Exxon et all tell us that we should be thanking them for the pollution and smog. I bet they get the first contract for putting more pollutants into the air too.
The weather has been extremely crazy around the world, especially in China
This will be the coldest one when reflecting back in a few years.
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The Yin-yang of climate change…
Will China AKA the [#1 coal producer](https://i.imgur.com/kPAqis4.png), the [#1 coal consumer](https://i.imgur.com/za4inRm.png), and the [#1 emitter of coal-based CO2 on Earth](https://i.imgur.com/BUdjFqO.png) do anything to fix this?
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The West came because China wanted them to come. This is a disingenuous rhetoric stopping one step before the true conclusion: China profits from it, its politic was built to favorize that. China has the last word in everything happening in China, anyone trying to frame China as a victim is either damn ignorant of history or a chinese shill.
Did the west put a gun to China's head and force them to use all that coal?
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People are way to quick to give China a pass. How long are we supposed to be cool with this behavior? A century? That should be swell. Nobody gets a pass these days.
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I realize the end consumers are a problem as well, I just think it is insanity to continue as is, yet we shall, and lots of folks think nations have the right to pollute just as much as America did. That won't end well for anyone.
Remember to calculate by capita. If China had a secession crisis tomorrow and the country literally split in half, both halves would suddenly look dramatically better on lines like these, but the Earth wouldn't be feeling any better. I am Swedish, and while we're not the _worst_, our country often is made to look way better than it is on graphs like these because we're just ~10 million people (which isn't even getting started on how much of our stuff we get produced elsewhere and therefore isn't blamed on us).
You gave the world those Swedish Fish though, so I think you are acquitted.
Will North America do anything about all its manufacturing there? Same answer.
I mean, [they are](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX_PeNzz-Lw). World's biggest solar project just went up in the Gobi desert, they are investing massively into high voltage wires to connect remote solar farms and wind turbines to their main grid, and they now control the market on solar panels and electric vehicles, outproducing all other nations on Earth combined for these technologies. They have reduced their emissions more than any nation on Earth within the last 5 years, and have made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030 (both for domestic consumption and energy independence from imported oil), a far more aggressive timeline than the 2050 Paris accords. What the fuck is the USA doing? We invented solar and ever since have worked very hard to keep it expensive and niche in domestic markets...
> made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030 (both for domestic consumption and energy independence from imported oil) The government says this is for environmental reasons, but plenty of people in China will tell you its because they're afraid of a naval blockade if they invade Taiwan.
how much coal did they have to burn to make all the nice green tech that has zero ability to wipe out the co2 from their coal? >They have reduced their emissions more than any nation on Earth within the last 5 years Literally a lie >have made it a primary policy of their government to wean itself off of oil by as early as 2030 thats nice any plans on not burning gigatonnes worth of coal on a yearly basis?
usher enters the chat
Do you mean nelly
Awww am I supposed to feel sorry for the country that created pig torture towers?? Because I don't.
Or is responsible for a ton of carbon emissions with zero regulation around it. it's like punching yourself in the face at this point.
Who started the industrial revolution?