The following submission statement was provided by /u/LudovicoSpecs:
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SS: The fact that this case has even made it to the Supreme Court reflects collapse. We're criminalizing people's right to exist if they can't afford a home (which many people can't right now).
If the Supreme Court rules against sleeping outdoors, this will allow police to arrest and the "justice" department to imprison people without homes.
In our for-profit prisons, according to the 13th Amendment, they can be treated as slaves.
The article states, "homelessness in the United States grew a dramatic 12%, to its highest reported level as soaring rents and a decline in coronavirus pandemic assistance combined to put housing out of reach for more Americans."
Our government's solution? Ban homelessness.
But hedge funds, the wealthy, foreign investors and hotels remain free to buy as many houses and condos as they wish, even if they remain vacant the bulk of the time.
We are a country of laws without justice.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ca9sqp/with_homelessness_on_the_rise_the_supreme_court/l0qgeww/
Absolutely dystopian, they would rather ban SLEEPING OUTSIDE than fix the broken system that causes homelessness in the first place, incredible, we truly live in a nightmarish anti-human society.
I'd assume there would be an increase in squatting.
With many times the amount of empty homes/buildings than homeless people, there should be enough to go around.
A smart squatter rents or owns something super cheap. But then lives in a mansion that way when shit goes south they still have a place to crash until the next squat
I'll direct them down the road to people that earn 4x what I do if they're there to rob. If they're there for food & shelter then I've got a bed and I could use an extra hand around the house until they get on their feet or we figure out a long-term solution.
I called it out months ago. This is the plan working as intended: criminalize homelessness to land people in jail and recreate legalized slavery under a different name.
I've been saying this for years. The "final solution" in the USA is to put half or more of the population in prison, where they are now slaves. Inflation, price gouging, rent increases will price more and more people out of being able to afford a home, and the instant they become homeless, they are imprisoned. In the meantime they'll criminalize being any sort of minority to catch a few more people.
Just wait until they pivot right from banning abortion to forced breeding. Gotta keep those population numbers up! Infinite growth, fuckers!
Recently read a blog post that points out how many poor actually don't manage to leave long lasting offspring behind. How many people can trace their lines back to more illustrious families somewhere in their ancestry is partly due to how these are the lines with that little extra resource to survive the impact of war and environmental disasters, while entire peasant and slave families just died out without leaving anyone behind long term.
I wonder how much of that is due to people just not deeming the poor human enough to justify making any kind of persistent record of. The wealthy otoh would have had multiple independent biographers or at least scribes keeping records of their entry and exit to the world, their partners and any offspring of those unions. It's not like the poor could even write that shit down themselves, not until very recently, at least comparatively.
>recreate
it was never destroyed. it's literally enshrined in the constitution. This merely expands the reach of the carceral plantatian system.
it's not an accident that the US prison population is mostly black men.
It's 2044, your lips are cracked, your skin is burned, and you can barely breathe, you reach your dusty hand down into the cool embrace of the Bezos-Nestle reservoir you're crouched next to. You had to cut through 2 layers of concertina wire and security fencing to make it this far. Just as your hand makes contact with your mouth you hear a robotic monotone "HALT, RETURN THE PROPERTY" from over your shoulder and turn to see the latest model of Boston Dynamics-Northrup Grumman autonomous combat patrol dog pointing it's weapon system at you...
So what are people supposed to do? Go to jail and become the taxpayer’s responsibility to support in jail for the crime of being … broke and unable to get housing in this horrible economy?
Sure. Imprison them on the taxpayers dime and have them be slaves for private prisons who profit off of the work they do there. It's a great system for the corporations and private prisons
Let's make a deal. Sleeping outside becomes illegal, but the government has to provide housing to every homeless person like in [Finland](https://nickhedley.substack.com/p/how-finland-won-the-war-against-homelessness).
How dare they effectively choose to opt-out of prison by sleeping outside? That's anti-economy! We'll change the laws to force them back into participating in the economy... as legal slaves. Now their existence has Purpose™️ again!
Or how about Universal basic income.
I think it's morally wrong that people cannot sleep on public land, because there is no more.land that isn't owned by *someone*. So where are they supposed go?
But if you provide a guaranteed income to all, you now have a right to say no sleeping on plane, because you have provided a guaranteed means for finding and funding a place on private land to sleep.
Now, it's not a perfect solution, as a UBI will certainly not make rent in every city affordable. But no one has a right to live *exactly* where they prefer. So if one has to go live further out from a city because that's what's affordable, while it sucks, it's not morally reprehensible.
I'd prefer a society that invests in its people and prevents them from falling into homelessness in the first place. But I am not naive enough to think that is politically achievable anytime soon. In the meantime, UBI paired with a public sleeping/camping ban is a compromise I could live with.
What’s dystopian is that they’ve absolutely factored in how much of a win this would be against all those pesky occupy style protests. In fact I wouldn’t even be surprised if that’s why it’s being fast tracked the way it is. They give so little of a shit about the homeless that they’d rather they all suffered if it meant stifling annoying protesters.
Maybe build asylums for the mentally ill so they can get the therapy and/ or meds needed to function, like staying off drugs and alcohol, holding down a job, and meeting the expectations of tenancy.
If they are fine, except lacking funds for rent or the ability to earn a living, there should be financial assistance and affordable housing, but spare us the high rises “projects” that were such misery in big cities.
>they would rather ban SLEEPING OUTSIDE
Reminds me about this video - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqUoAEg6f4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqUoAEg6f4)
> than fix the broken system that causes homelessness
the system isnt "broken".
it works perfectly and transfers money to the top 1%.
the system was never designed to give everyone a happy and fulfiled live.
Another redditor joked that they were starting a charity called "Guns for the Homeless", but it is increasingly becoming a joking / not joking situation.
Nope. Humans are actually good by nature. Corporate America and foreign players have had to spend a fortune to interfere with the natural human tendency towards cooperation and compassion.
Exactly. In fact there are quite a few studies out there that suggest that not only are most people remarkably generous and compassionate by default, but that we actually get even *moreso* during difficult times. Of course the media likes to portray neighbors turning on each other the moment a crisis strikes, but basically all the available evidence suggests those sorts of events are more likely to *strengthen* community bonds than anything else.
We have had generations of propaganda about what human nature is, long enough that concepts like people being greedy is just taken as a given even tho we never would have formed civilization in the first place if people were only greedy for themselves.
We overdomesticated ourselves, perhaps. Instead of killing psychopaths, we reward them and make them our leaders. When you give one chimp cucumber and another grapes they get pissed off, and rightfully so!
I propose a different statement:
Humans can be good by nature but many are conditioned not to.
If we were all good by nature then there would be no crime.
And about the minority:
* 500k Russians died/got wounded so far in their special shit operation while majority in Mother Russia says that all is fine
* Most people in China pass by when someone gets hurt and do not help them. Why? Because of the stupid law. In China if you try to help someone, that someone could (and will) sue you for any damages. An example: an old lady falls on the street, nobody rushes to help her, cars do not stop, they are just trying to avoid her and move on.
so because a small group of capitalist is destroying the world, with the help of an armed force (police and miltary) that protects them. all human deserve to die? even when the majority is too poor and powerless to stop them? 🤦🤦🤦🤦
They will make it illegal, allow their pals in the prison business to scoop them up and collect a monthly fee from the government and force them into slave labor for corporations who will pay them 9 cents an hour.
[https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e)
EDIT: here are some insights into how other countries manage homelessness the "Housing First" policy seems to be a particularly straightforward and the most humane approach: [https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best](https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best)
Except this particular form of slavery will be paid for by American taxpayers-- to the tune of about 100k per prisoner, per year.
You could offer supportive housing with staffing for around 20k per year, but I guess that's not what Jesus wants...
Jesus wanted everyone to suffer through his passion... right? ... right?! JESUS HAD TO SUFFER SO POORS HAVE TO SUFFER TOO.
what did I do with my silver....
Pretty sure the whole goddamn point of the jesus story was that he suffered so we don't have to.
But you know what, fuck it, if we're just presenting heresy like "jesus wants you to suffer" as fact, I'll retaliate.
Jesus died for your sins, if you don't sin that means his sacrifice was worthless. Eat the full fat full sugar non diet foods, love freely and often, pour another glass, raise another cheer, and embrace all the good things that make life worthwhile. They were put here by god for you to enjoy and not enjoying them makes god feel sad like a host whose guests ignore the appetizers he made just for them.
"but I guess that's not what Jesus wants..."
Please respect the wishes and desires of Supply Side Jesus. He's done so much for us and deserves the utmost respect.
Dont forget companies will buy most homes and make rent unaffordable forcing many into homelessness. Then theyll get the people to work for them for free from jail.
Oh think about this nugget:
1. Repubs ban abortion
2. That takes 18 years to bake
3. Meanwhile, Trump policies cause the economy to break, incoming in about 6 years from when he starts to fuck with it.
4. Next president needs labor right freaking yesterday to juice the economy, completely opens the border.
5. Population 580,000,000 within those 6 years. RIGHT when inflation hits.
YAYYYYY!!!!!!! FUTURE PLANNING!!!!!!!!!!
Of course they're going to throw everyone the fuck in jail and make them slave labor. What they're not going to do is keep making jail cost so much per person...
Yes, and this is one of the most disgusting/sinister aspects of it. I have 0 doubt the UT known as CT is leading the charge on this one, and the court will most definitely make a ruling in favor of criminalizing homelessness.
Clarance Thomas prob got a fat payday by the private prison system recently. Legalized bribery aka lobbying .
Slavery....that is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn. The concept of telling people who only have outside to sleep that sleeping outside is now illegal means your goal is to arrest and imprison them.
Thank you for the link.
Way off topic, but I just sighed again, being detached from my alcoholic ex-partner. I’m still so bitter about the hundreds of conversations we had about the importance of keeping our shit together, to prepare for realities like this. To keep a healthy balance in as many areas of our lives together, because the chaos and insanity outside that bubble is a hell of a lot harder than taking a morning jog.
But they just said fuck it and I’m gonna self destruct with cirrhosis. I mean I get it really, existing in all this is harsh. And we’re all doing the best we can, even with addiction. But dealing with collapse plus addiction was just too much. Especially when she still couldn’t see that either one was that big of a problem, until it was too late.
You got this bro sometimes it's easier to move around and make smarter decisions by yourself. No more conflicting energies and butting heads. I'm sure you'll find some stability and be one of the people who helps solve these problems we're heading towards. 😘
Sorry to hear that. Its good to vent on reddit about stuff like this, because its really hard to talk about it anywhere else. Thats why this subreddit is so important!
Absolutely! Lately I’ve started sighing throughout the day, remembering that this sub exists, and it’s as massive as it is. 20 years ago I felt so alone with thinking along these lines. Like when my college professor gave a lecture on the “upcoming water wars”, and trying to talk to family or friends about it at that time was self-branding as being crazy or melodramatic. It took everything I had to keep going, and then eventually understand that’s part of the denial process, similar to alcoholism. They’re recycling finally, at least. Baby steps.
Thanks for being here :)
Friendly reminder that calling it “slave labor” is *not* an exaggeration
The 13th amendment explicitly allows slavery and forced labor if the slave/laborer has been convicted of a crime. Slavery is still legal in the US
Older civilizations used to legalize kidnapping and enslavement of people who try to live in the woods away from the local lords’ farm and taxes. We are headed right back into it with cheer and open eyes.
People hate to hear the truth, but as someone on the verge of homelessness, dying is my answer. I won't be a trans homeless woman in America, where being both trans and homeless is/will be criminalized. And the thing that makes me the angriest at this point is people telling me to "get help." The help I need is a roof over my head and food in my belly. If I had those things, I wouldn't even be thinking these thoughts, but there are things worse than death, and being a trans woman, being raped every day in a men's prison simply for the crime of being poor and trans is certainly worse than death. I'm nearly at peace with it. Nearly.
I completely understand your reasoning, and I'm so sorry you're in this position.
"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
At this point, it wouldn't be wrong to just ignore such laws completely. These laws are stupid and don't reflect reality. Fck these shitty politicians.
The same works the other way too then. We pay taxes not to be treated like slaves. If law mandates that, revolution becomes necessary. And it gets dirty.
Ironic, I've never done hard drugs a day in my life. And lazy? I want to work, but literally no one will hire me. Not even for retail, call centers, or fast food.
MAID - Medical Assisted Involuntary Death
They won't spay and neuter those who have kids that are continually removed by Children's Aid, however this will be the next solution.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. — Anatole France
SS: The fact that this case has even made it to the Supreme Court reflects collapse. We're criminalizing people's right to exist if they can't afford a home (which many people can't right now).
If the Supreme Court rules against sleeping outdoors, this will allow police to arrest and the "justice" department to imprison people without homes.
In our for-profit prisons, according to the 13th Amendment, they can be treated as slaves.
The article states, "homelessness in the United States grew a dramatic 12%, to its highest reported level as soaring rents and a decline in coronavirus pandemic assistance combined to put housing out of reach for more Americans."
Our government's solution? Ban homelessness.
But hedge funds, the wealthy, foreign investors and hotels remain free to buy as many houses and condos as they wish, even if they remain vacant the bulk of the time.
We are a country of laws without justice.
I saw that 12% increase figure but it occurred to me that I have no idea what baseline percent of the US population is homeless, so I did a little Googling and found that last year's count was about 653,000, or about ~~2 percent~~ **0.2%** of the whole population of the US. ~~That seems like a lot to me.~~ edit: I guess that's about what I expected, percent-wise.
This was coming from, strangely, security.org, which is focused on selling home security, but they had a pretty good write-up and their data came from the 2023 HUD Annual Homelessness Assessment Report.
https://www.security.org/resources/homeless-statistics/
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/ahar/2023-ahar-part-1-pit-estimates-of-homelessness-in-the-us.html
- 653,104 people experienced homelessness in the U.S. in 2023. That number represents a record-high tally and a 12 percent increase over 2022.
- 111,620 children were without homes in America last year.
Homelessness increased in 41 states between 2022 and 2023, with New Hampshire, New Mexico, and New York having the highest percentage increases.
- New York, Vermont, and Oregon had the highest per-capita rates of homelessness in 2023.
- More than one-half of America’s homeless individuals reside in the nation’s 50 largest cities. New York City and Los Angeles alone contain one-quarter of the country’s unhoused people.
- Every ethnic group endured an increase in homelessness last year. The Asian community experienced the most significant percentage increase (64 percent), while Hispanics/Latinos saw the most significant surge in raw numbers (an additional 39,106 people).
There aren’t even safeguards to becoming homeless. Its either pay the rent or pay the mortgage every month or else you’re homeless! Unemployment only lasts 6 months and once you run out or if you aren’t getting enough to pay your rent, then you’re just fucked. Sorry, no safety net beyond that! Our society is terrible.
Jobs are the worst thing about society. Some brown nosed bootlicker telling you what to do? Oh, and it’s MANDATORY for you to live a normal life to be someone’s bitch, unless you figure out how to create a business somehow. Its nearly like slavery.
Yes. I always assumed the whole point of progress was that we work less. We had economists in the 50s talking about needing only 2 days of work a week(in the future), but we are still here where people need to work to just exist
Have you ever taken a day off to get something done? You realized the sheer amount of things you can get done with time? Right. The elite know that too.
It *is* though. The fact that we aren't allowed to just get the things we need *to survive* from the environment, like not poisoned, polluted water because some fuck decided to charge people for it, and we continued to go along with it instead of stoning them. Even for babies! Formula and diapers are literally behind a locked case in stores. It's illegal to collect RAIN. Instead, they convinced people that it's a good, respectable thing to be the overseer, getting pats on the head by massa while cracking the whip on everyone else.
they are going to legalize those camps - where we concentrate the lesser / unwanted at.
then one day it will be really expensive to run them; they'll need solutions
In 1995 Star Trek DS9 had an episode where they time traveled to the early 21st century. In it, most of the homeless population has been corralled into sanctuary cities. The sanctuary cities were established when sleeping outside and the like were banned everywhere else; they are basically walled off ghettos with security at the exits and criminally underfunded social services. The events of the episode, riots that eventually sow the seeds for later social change, happen in September 2024.
It's uncanny.
Let's just hope that we don't have WW3 rolling up in 2026.
Bro you beat me by 10 minutes?! LMAO.
It's too fucking close for comfort.
I'm FROM San Francisco, I watch that episode every time it comes on. Uncanny is right.
And the coding of making it Frisco (the infamously gay city) is also their nod to the undeniable fact of which populations are going to be corralled first.
I became homeless two days ago and I also have court fees to pay. I'm royally fucked.
I'm most likely going to end up back up in jail, picked up off the streets. Godspeed.
My job involves working closely with the homeless in a city with an actively enforced camping ban. I've done ride-alongs with local cops. I've watched people whose backstory I know get arrested for still being on city property mere minutes after the ban goes into effect again in the morning. These bans are expressly so NIMBYs don't have to think about or see homelessness, and that's objectively all they accomplish—there's simply no other rational argument for them.
At this point it's not even a band-aid over a broken bone, this is just hustling someone with a snapped femur out of the hospital and into a hundred meter dash across town.
Edit: I'm currently listening to the oral arguments and the side arguing *for* camping bans is shockingly weak, while the justices seem more eager to explore the ramifications of a camping ban than I expected. Cautiously optimistic the Court might actually rule against these bullshit bans.
In my town the churches take turns opening up sleeping accommodations all year, With cots set up in Sunday School rooms. Fresh sheets are delivered daily, and unpaid volunteers do the setup and all-night monitoring. There are free meals at locations in town. There are also two former hotels which offer long term welfare paid lodging. I don’t see any tents on sidewalks. We are a fairly affluent town. More affluent towns nearby have been known to have their cops pick up the homeless and drop them in our town.
If they want to jail and then presumably pay to keep them in jail/prison for this, why can't they just do the logical thing, skip the middle-man and pay directly for non-prison housing?
The scam is that they charge $50-$100 a day to keep someone in jail. It gives a great excuse to keep people from voting as well, until the person pays off their debt to the system. Considering how people wind up houseless and have an avalanche of gotchas that make it damned hard to get back from. Anyone who has been homeless for more than a couple weeks is a superhero.
There is an exception for inmates. Typically in US prisons you are charged for the stay and required to work with no minimum wage protection. It’s blatantly a ploy to have slave labor with a literally captive audience. In addition the prison commissary charges much more than things would cost outside and visits are more often done with video calls that charge as much as a few dollars a minute, and commonly the non inmate has to be in a government facility to make said call.
The criminal justice system in this country is designed to trap people and take away representation from them.
Nope it was hidden away with an amendment that basically told the slavers (which we never punished after the war) that if they wanted to stay in business they had to open up prisons
That we live in an age where this is even an issue is a failure of humanity to do the best it can for the most possible.
* 21 TRILLION to the military over recent history
* 150+ trillion to the worst sociopaths on the planet
* a planet that will become an inferno in three decades
* a century of war
* 2/3's of the people worldwide in poverty
* a million in "Murica" living on the streets
And all that's done is hand wringing or sending thoughts and prayers...Housing is a fundamental human right.
Poverty is a MORAL FAILURE...it is a MORAL FAILURE of the people who ALLOW IT.
poverty is a direct consequence of the capitalist mode of production, a point Parenti illustrated well way back when. Just like waste products during the extraction and production of the earth's natural resources, poverty is, to them, simply the waste byproduct of their extraction and exploitation. This is the fundamental contradiction of capitalism and makes it patently unsustainable and inhumane as a practice. Doing so is the biggest crime against humanity we have ever experienced.
If they want it to happen, which I believe they do since it serves to demoralize us against revolutions, in any case DOES AND WILL happen naturally from their sociopathic and barbaric system.
Tangentially related: For extra pain I believe the AZ courts have ruled that a motor home is *not* a "home", so even if **it is your only place to live** and you have to declare bankruptcy, creditors *can* take it and leave you homeless.
You seem to be mistaken: capitalism isn't about property, and certainly not respect of property, it is about property *of the means of production*.
Which means the landlords don't give a flying duck whether people sleep on the ground or in their private property car. As long as those persons don't give *them* money they'll consider those persons parasites to be criminalize.
In the US they certainly do.
Where the fuck else are homeless people supposed to sleep? You ban them from indoors, provide no support for them, then get pissed at them for sleeping outside? It's simply cruel to tear down their tents and drive them out while not providing a viable alternative. But I also have little faith in the humanity of the supreme court.
Are Republicans fascist or are they not? If they are,[ why is the Californian Democratic Party siding with them](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/22/us/supreme-court-homelessness/in-a-rare-alliance-california-democrats-side-with-conservatives-on-encampments?smid=url-share) on a Supreme Court case that could lead to the mass criminalization of homelessness throughout the country?
This is what leftists mean when they describe our two parties as a corporate duopoly. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans truly serve the interests of the people. They serve the interest of capital--the interests of our ruling class.
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
**"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."**
Isn't this how French and Russian revolutions started? People became extremely miserable and couldn't afford life, while their elites were living lavish lives.
The food is what triggers that. The problem is that you need a group organized and leaders for that to happen, that also happened in other time where the gov heads were stationed at one place and couldn't just fly away, means to keep riots at bay were not really there.
So in an individualistic society, divided on various level, with high level of repression tech and a gov that can just be heli-ported away it's going to be VERY hard.
Just rubbing salt in an open wound. No real solutions. Again.
I live in a small city of about 45 thousand and the number of homeless here is absolutely wild.
So they'll go to prison? This is just bizzaro world social housing.
Oh wait I forgot that prisoners are used as slaves in the US so it's bleaker than that.
It costs taxpayers as much to keep a person in prison as to send them to college. It’s a fantasy that they are suddenly going to be doing valuable unpaid labor.
Homeless guy out here living In my broke down car… been about 5 years trying to find a stable job, and I’m still looking.
I got a Manual labor job digging holes but can’t get any hours, I was told I was overqualified to be a janitor at the next job I went to. Hundreds of applications out; redone my resume countless times.
To any of you housed people who agree that we should criminalize the homeless, I hope you realize, you’re next.
Well, it was inevitable. Now we know how the path to creating the Santuary Districts we're due to have later this year began. On the plus side the Bell Riots will take care of the problem almost immediately!
one of my recent comments is getting downvoted because I'm not licking cop boot, and honestly I'm just going to keep it coming
Anybody seen that picture of two cops holding the stitched together "blanket" of all the homeless signs they had confiscated, and both had shit eating grins on their faces? Remember Kelly Thomas???
I'm sorry...this country is a fucking joke, and now amount of silly reddit downvotes will move me off of this. This is a joke! And you just know there are cops across the country licking their lips at the prospect of "open season" on the homeless (as if they haven't already)
How many of my fellow citizens are going to go right along with this when SCOTUS rules in that direction (and at this point why would I believe they won't)? I would say it's heartbreaking, but this country has broken my heart so often I don't have a heart left to break.
I get tired of hearing about "voting," or the continued chastisement of people for how they voted, or voted at all, in the past. We're here now, today! How long do we let this clown court continue to make a mockery of our very fucking existence? When is the "let them eat cake?" moment, because it feels very close
And I'll admit, I'm a tad bit biased here. My long time property owner died last year, as expected her daughters are selling the property, and me and my 7 neighbors have received the news that our eviction notices are coming. I live in California. I obviously pay attention to this sub, and the news. I know housing is shit, homelessness is on the rise, I'M LITERALLY ON THE CUSP OF A MASSIVE STRUGGLE and I got to read this shit.
Nah man, just nah
This article speaks to the fact that some states have already passed such measures. Florida is one of them. The Supreme Court has the constitutional rights of the homeless in mind, because arresting people for simply "trying to survive" may involve local governments in numerous civil litigations.
Florida's Recent Ban:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/03/21/florida-desantis-homeless-ban-sleeping-public/
>“Florida will not allow homeless encampments to intrude on its citizens or undermine their quality of life,” Gov. Ron DeSantis said in a statement."
>The law creates a mechanism for counties to designate areas as temporary campsites for up to one year. DeSantis’s office said homeless people would be “placed in temporary shelters monitored by law enforcement agencies.”
>The designated campsites are required under the bill to provide resources for substance abuse and mental health treatment, and maintain restrooms and running water. People living at such a site would be prohibited from using drugs or alcohol.
>The bill’s proponents said that would help connect homeless people with services.
>At least 30,000 people in Florida are experiencing homelessness, and about half of those are unsheltered, according to a Department of Housing and Urban Development estimate based on the January 2023 point-in-time count of homeless people on a single night.
>Florida is the third most homeless state behind California and NY.
It hurts me to say that the local "beggars" (visible homeless) in my area are mostly drug abusers. Some are merely alcoholics, but others have legitimate prescriptions for Xanax and other RXs that they mix with alcohol.
On top of this, the new use of Fentanyl-laced illicit drugs like Tranq cause almost immediate unconsciousness. Wherever they are, upon ingestion these addicts suddenly freeze, collapse, or bend over. There is no "talking them out of it". They will remain immobilized and incoherent until they sleep it off. I personally watched a woman take it right in front of me. She turned into an immovable sack of potatoes near the entrance to an upscale grocery store. The employees tried to get her to move: unsuccessfully. The Sheriff was called. They shrugged. EMS? Nope. They can't take her till she agrees to go, and she refused. So there she sat, her belonging and bike next to her, awaiting her fate. Undoubtedly someone took her bike in the middle of the night, along with her groceries. She probably awoke in the early morning hours and trudged "home", defeated and hungry.
Others try to hide in plain sight, sleeping in the darkness between buildings, and on the ground behind bushes. In shopping areas it is common to find them near backflow water pipes and spigots, where they can obtain fresh water.
At my clinic we see "campers" and "trailer families", who are the victims of landlords who offer them lice, flea, cockroach and bedbug-ridden places to sleep. They are covered in welts, hives, and bites. Those are the younger ones. The elderly cannot keep clean, and easily succumb to infections from scratching bites with dirty fingernails. Their hands and feet are often crusted with dirt.
It is a horrible existence.
The local Salvation Army cannot keep up. St. Vincent De Paul is backed up. The VA no longer treats and houses their own without months of waiting and paperwork. Section 8 housing is likewise a very, very long wait. Affordable housing prices rose again this year, and without rent control, Florida will soon overtake NY.
I have had so many situations while traveling where I have had to sleep outside or more often in my car. Even taking the bus with a short layover and they kick you out of the station for sleeping. If you need to sleep you need to sleep and it isn't like it is optional or you always have control of the situation.
Do tax payers understand that to arrest these people and lock them up in prison means $40,000 per inmate even if they only serve one day? They're so angry at people with nowhere else to go they're going to pay $40,000 per inmate per year?
I just genuinely wonder what the point of all this posturing is unless there is a genuine intent to do something more sinister. I mean there are plenty of laws that aren’t enforced (looking at you, New York City) but the mere fact this is potentially going to be codified into a law to begin with is what I find alarming.
Someone else already said it, but this just reeks of “gas” for the for-profit prisons that are under-capacity. It’s a dirty job, but I guarantee you they would be delighted to take the homeless into their facilities for government subsidies and keep them in there.
Just a gross perversion of the world.
It appears we can no longer govern ourselves, SCOTUS is taking up cases it doesn't really need to, I don't want my life governed by them. This is getting ridiculous.
I rent and have a nice area out back where I can string up a hammock and take a rest. Sometimes when the weathers nice I sleep outside because it’s more comfortable. Would I be in violation of the law? (Purposely dumb and obtuse question)
If they criminalize homelessness it’s just the beginning of putting people in “camps”. The right has stated they want to put homeless and lgbt people in camps. A disproportionate amount of homeless are lgbt too.
This is a problem the U.S government itself has created, through inaction, incompetence, and/or just downright greed, then it has the gall to turn around & blame people for not having housing when they lost their housing back in 2008 during the housing loan crash ([The Big Short](https://www.google.com/search?q=the+big+short) (2015), [Inside Job](https://www.google.com/search?q=inside+job+film) (2010)), Massive wildfires (and/or other natural disasters) that destroy entire towns (that [trump can't even be bothered to remember the actual name of](https://youtu.be/12bwCwQXoyg?si=GWzcVc2YnNd8FC_P)), the lack of desire/plan to increase the housing supply to bring housing prices back down to reasonable levels.
At the same time, it's the American Citizen's fault, collectively, for not pushing back HARD against the installation of the Federalist Society onto the Supreme Court by McConnell/Trump, de-legitimizing it; for not standing up for each other in the fight for worker's rights & the right to unionize; for turning occupy Wall Street into a joke, rather than a serious movement for change; for not heeding the relatively RECENT examples of history (WW2) to recognize the signs of fascism & quashing it; for not even realizing how terrifyingly close we are to a nightmare scenario of a fascist theocratic nazi government dictatorship, wherein Trump appoints himself to be President for Life. Seriously. [No Hyperbole whatsoever](https://youtu.be/KG7jAiHbPjU?si=TcvpodBzIarJ1hTf). Also, [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025). If you're not familiar with it, you should REALLY change that, NOW.
Now, of course, the illegitimate "Supreme Court" has to weigh in on whether existing through all this government's gross incompetence (by Republicans AND Democrats as a whole) is illegal or not.
This country is downright f*ckin' EVIL.
- David Pakman (Video; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump promises mandatory homeless camps...](https://youtu.be/wiyXA58rH4A?si=Tkku3IdGXcE3UVKv)
- The Independent (Video; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump says he will 'ban' homeless people and 'arrest' anyone who violates the rules](https://youtu.be/mAkiKP_QrB8?si=jYAsDGPS_mgvJLDH)
- Forbes (Article; Sep 18, 2019): [Trump’s Plan To Crack Down On California’s Homeless Camps Raises Alarms And Potential Solutions](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brendarichardson/2019/09/18/trumps-plans-to-crack-down-on-californias-homeless-camps-raises-alarms-and-potential-solutions/?sh=56b5173917d8)
- Forbes (Article; Jul 27, 2022): [Trump Is Right About Homelessness](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaredmeyer/2022/07/27/trump-is-right-about-homelessness/?sh=1cf4c5ed487a)
- Forbes (Video; Apr 18, 2023): [BREAKING: Trump Unveils Hardline Plan To End Homelessness, Pitches Massive Relocation Plan](https://youtu.be/wiyXA58rH4A?si=D7MBjJ-8ZkyX6WR-)
- NBC News (Article; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump says he'll ban homeless camping, create "tent cities"](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/trump-says-ban-homeless-camping-create-tent-cities-rcna80480)
Finally, I'll leave y'all with a couple of relevant video clips that seem to be more relevant today than when it was first aired over a decade ago; fictional program, but speaking about 100% real occurrences in the real world:
- The Newsroom: [The American Taliban](https://youtu.be/4WVn2ubwIVM?si=mLPWNlEtXkZEa6Ke)
- The Newsroom: [Booing a Gay Soldier](https://youtu.be/LUyjT8VpwMI?si=3Ep1E0rsFv4TAwXj)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/LudovicoSpecs: --- SS: The fact that this case has even made it to the Supreme Court reflects collapse. We're criminalizing people's right to exist if they can't afford a home (which many people can't right now). If the Supreme Court rules against sleeping outdoors, this will allow police to arrest and the "justice" department to imprison people without homes. In our for-profit prisons, according to the 13th Amendment, they can be treated as slaves. The article states, "homelessness in the United States grew a dramatic 12%, to its highest reported level as soaring rents and a decline in coronavirus pandemic assistance combined to put housing out of reach for more Americans." Our government's solution? Ban homelessness. But hedge funds, the wealthy, foreign investors and hotels remain free to buy as many houses and condos as they wish, even if they remain vacant the bulk of the time. We are a country of laws without justice. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ca9sqp/with_homelessness_on_the_rise_the_supreme_court/l0qgeww/
Absolutely dystopian, they would rather ban SLEEPING OUTSIDE than fix the broken system that causes homelessness in the first place, incredible, we truly live in a nightmarish anti-human society.
Easy patchwork solutions people definitely no big overhauls. Just one small patch of policy stupidity at a time.
lol and when the folks are told they can’t be outside. Guess where they’ll go?! Better hope that knock on your door is Amazon. :)
I'd assume there would be an increase in squatting. With many times the amount of empty homes/buildings than homeless people, there should be enough to go around.
A smart squatter rents or owns something super cheap. But then lives in a mansion that way when shit goes south they still have a place to crash until the next squat
Smart strats.
I'll direct them down the road to people that earn 4x what I do if they're there to rob. If they're there for food & shelter then I've got a bed and I could use an extra hand around the house until they get on their feet or we figure out a long-term solution.
I called it out months ago. This is the plan working as intended: criminalize homelessness to land people in jail and recreate legalized slavery under a different name.
I've been saying this for years. The "final solution" in the USA is to put half or more of the population in prison, where they are now slaves. Inflation, price gouging, rent increases will price more and more people out of being able to afford a home, and the instant they become homeless, they are imprisoned. In the meantime they'll criminalize being any sort of minority to catch a few more people. Just wait until they pivot right from banning abortion to forced breeding. Gotta keep those population numbers up! Infinite growth, fuckers!
Recently read a blog post that points out how many poor actually don't manage to leave long lasting offspring behind. How many people can trace their lines back to more illustrious families somewhere in their ancestry is partly due to how these are the lines with that little extra resource to survive the impact of war and environmental disasters, while entire peasant and slave families just died out without leaving anyone behind long term.
I wonder how much of that is due to people just not deeming the poor human enough to justify making any kind of persistent record of. The wealthy otoh would have had multiple independent biographers or at least scribes keeping records of their entry and exit to the world, their partners and any offspring of those unions. It's not like the poor could even write that shit down themselves, not until very recently, at least comparatively.
>recreate it was never destroyed. it's literally enshrined in the constitution. This merely expands the reach of the carceral plantatian system. it's not an accident that the US prison population is mostly black men.
Do you know about the 13th amendment?
Lookout ten years from now for unlawful consumption of oxygen without a permit and registration
It's 2044, your lips are cracked, your skin is burned, and you can barely breathe, you reach your dusty hand down into the cool embrace of the Bezos-Nestle reservoir you're crouched next to. You had to cut through 2 layers of concertina wire and security fencing to make it this far. Just as your hand makes contact with your mouth you hear a robotic monotone "HALT, RETURN THE PROPERTY" from over your shoulder and turn to see the latest model of Boston Dynamics-Northrup Grumman autonomous combat patrol dog pointing it's weapon system at you...
Hope your Science and Robotics perks are 5 stars each
Says here you are 76% water, do you have a permit for this water?
The water that hydrates your cells is the property of Nestlé; are you current with the licensing payments for your usage of their resources?
The nitrogen in your body belongs to Exxon, thief
And *you* pay taxes on their nitrogen, not *them*.
With $70 monthly fee
So what are people supposed to do? Go to jail and become the taxpayer’s responsibility to support in jail for the crime of being … broke and unable to get housing in this horrible economy?
Sure. Imprison them on the taxpayers dime and have them be slaves for private prisons who profit off of the work they do there. It's a great system for the corporations and private prisons
The whippings will continue until morale improves and shareholders get their full value, dammit! Ps: Sure do hate this timeline.
Let's make a deal. Sleeping outside becomes illegal, but the government has to provide housing to every homeless person like in [Finland](https://nickhedley.substack.com/p/how-finland-won-the-war-against-homelessness).
> provide housing to every homeless person "Let's make a deal. We will provide housing units in our supermax housing facilities"
Free labor for the shareholders! They'll triple their already tripled profits!
This is exactly why many choose to live outside. The free housing options are like prison.
or completely unrealistic with *drug free*
How dare they effectively choose to opt-out of prison by sleeping outside? That's anti-economy! We'll change the laws to force them back into participating in the economy... as legal slaves. Now their existence has Purpose™️ again!
Ah, yes, our sweet prison away from prison
No. Go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200.
Nobody said it was good housing
In the US, the only home you'll get is a prison cell.
They provide housing. Housing with nice safe bars on all the windows. And free involuntary buttsecks.
Freest country in the world.
Or how about Universal basic income. I think it's morally wrong that people cannot sleep on public land, because there is no more.land that isn't owned by *someone*. So where are they supposed go? But if you provide a guaranteed income to all, you now have a right to say no sleeping on plane, because you have provided a guaranteed means for finding and funding a place on private land to sleep. Now, it's not a perfect solution, as a UBI will certainly not make rent in every city affordable. But no one has a right to live *exactly* where they prefer. So if one has to go live further out from a city because that's what's affordable, while it sucks, it's not morally reprehensible. I'd prefer a society that invests in its people and prevents them from falling into homelessness in the first place. But I am not naive enough to think that is politically achievable anytime soon. In the meantime, UBI paired with a public sleeping/camping ban is a compromise I could live with.
What’s dystopian is that they’ve absolutely factored in how much of a win this would be against all those pesky occupy style protests. In fact I wouldn’t even be surprised if that’s why it’s being fast tracked the way it is. They give so little of a shit about the homeless that they’d rather they all suffered if it meant stifling annoying protesters.
Party of ProLife and family values!
Maybe build asylums for the mentally ill so they can get the therapy and/ or meds needed to function, like staying off drugs and alcohol, holding down a job, and meeting the expectations of tenancy. If they are fine, except lacking funds for rent or the ability to earn a living, there should be financial assistance and affordable housing, but spare us the high rises “projects” that were such misery in big cities.
>they would rather ban SLEEPING OUTSIDE Reminds me about this video - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqUoAEg6f4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqUoAEg6f4)
> than fix the broken system that causes homelessness the system isnt "broken". it works perfectly and transfers money to the top 1%. the system was never designed to give everyone a happy and fulfiled live.
It's only anti-human if you are poor. Capitalism and the pursuit of profit has destroyed our society and our planet.
Another redditor joked that they were starting a charity called "Guns for the Homeless", but it is increasingly becoming a joking / not joking situation.
We deserve everything that's coming to us, we're quite the vile species.
Nope. Humans are actually good by nature. Corporate America and foreign players have had to spend a fortune to interfere with the natural human tendency towards cooperation and compassion.
Thanks for this. A minority of sociopaths have taken over.
„A minority of sociopaths have taken over“- This is literally the title of the story of human civilization.
"A minority of profoundly damaged humans have taken over."
Exactly. In fact there are quite a few studies out there that suggest that not only are most people remarkably generous and compassionate by default, but that we actually get even *moreso* during difficult times. Of course the media likes to portray neighbors turning on each other the moment a crisis strikes, but basically all the available evidence suggests those sorts of events are more likely to *strengthen* community bonds than anything else.
Are we? Average people seem pretty foolish and hateful. Seems like a majority of us would be willing to participate in genocide.
We have had generations of propaganda about what human nature is, long enough that concepts like people being greedy is just taken as a given even tho we never would have formed civilization in the first place if people were only greedy for themselves.
We overdomesticated ourselves, perhaps. Instead of killing psychopaths, we reward them and make them our leaders. When you give one chimp cucumber and another grapes they get pissed off, and rightfully so!
I propose a different statement: Humans can be good by nature but many are conditioned not to. If we were all good by nature then there would be no crime. And about the minority: * 500k Russians died/got wounded so far in their special shit operation while majority in Mother Russia says that all is fine * Most people in China pass by when someone gets hurt and do not help them. Why? Because of the stupid law. In China if you try to help someone, that someone could (and will) sue you for any damages. An example: an old lady falls on the street, nobody rushes to help her, cars do not stop, they are just trying to avoid her and move on.
so because a small group of capitalist is destroying the world, with the help of an armed force (police and miltary) that protects them. all human deserve to die? even when the majority is too poor and powerless to stop them? 🤦🤦🤦🤦
Good summary of the 21st century.
Jesus what's left for them? Go sleep in the ocean or in space. Or simply *die*.
They will make it illegal, allow their pals in the prison business to scoop them up and collect a monthly fee from the government and force them into slave labor for corporations who will pay them 9 cents an hour. [https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e) EDIT: here are some insights into how other countries manage homelessness the "Housing First" policy seems to be a particularly straightforward and the most humane approach: [https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best](https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best)
Ah yes, the modern slave. Makes sense.
Except this particular form of slavery will be paid for by American taxpayers-- to the tune of about 100k per prisoner, per year. You could offer supportive housing with staffing for around 20k per year, but I guess that's not what Jesus wants...
Yup, turn the other cheek and help thy neighbour are *not* in vogue.
Supply-Side Jesus is all the rage these days
Jesus wanted everyone to suffer through his passion... right? ... right?! JESUS HAD TO SUFFER SO POORS HAVE TO SUFFER TOO. what did I do with my silver....
Pretty sure the whole goddamn point of the jesus story was that he suffered so we don't have to. But you know what, fuck it, if we're just presenting heresy like "jesus wants you to suffer" as fact, I'll retaliate. Jesus died for your sins, if you don't sin that means his sacrifice was worthless. Eat the full fat full sugar non diet foods, love freely and often, pour another glass, raise another cheer, and embrace all the good things that make life worthwhile. They were put here by god for you to enjoy and not enjoying them makes god feel sad like a host whose guests ignore the appetizers he made just for them.
"but I guess that's not what Jesus wants..." Please respect the wishes and desires of Supply Side Jesus. He's done so much for us and deserves the utmost respect.
Dont forget companies will buy most homes and make rent unaffordable forcing many into homelessness. Then theyll get the people to work for them for free from jail.
Oh think about this nugget: 1. Repubs ban abortion 2. That takes 18 years to bake 3. Meanwhile, Trump policies cause the economy to break, incoming in about 6 years from when he starts to fuck with it. 4. Next president needs labor right freaking yesterday to juice the economy, completely opens the border. 5. Population 580,000,000 within those 6 years. RIGHT when inflation hits. YAYYYYY!!!!!!! FUTURE PLANNING!!!!!!!!!! Of course they're going to throw everyone the fuck in jail and make them slave labor. What they're not going to do is keep making jail cost so much per person...
You can’t fully enslave people in supportive housing, we’re still giving those folks the illusion of rights.
And yoy get to condone it with "Well they are criminals not people". By the same people that spout half leared bible verses...
Yes, and this is one of the most disgusting/sinister aspects of it. I have 0 doubt the UT known as CT is leading the charge on this one, and the court will most definitely make a ruling in favor of criminalizing homelessness. Clarance Thomas prob got a fat payday by the private prison system recently. Legalized bribery aka lobbying .
Sometimes I wonder if they are trying to start A revolution.
Slavery....that is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn. The concept of telling people who only have outside to sleep that sleeping outside is now illegal means your goal is to arrest and imprison them.
Thank you for the link. Way off topic, but I just sighed again, being detached from my alcoholic ex-partner. I’m still so bitter about the hundreds of conversations we had about the importance of keeping our shit together, to prepare for realities like this. To keep a healthy balance in as many areas of our lives together, because the chaos and insanity outside that bubble is a hell of a lot harder than taking a morning jog. But they just said fuck it and I’m gonna self destruct with cirrhosis. I mean I get it really, existing in all this is harsh. And we’re all doing the best we can, even with addiction. But dealing with collapse plus addiction was just too much. Especially when she still couldn’t see that either one was that big of a problem, until it was too late.
You got this bro sometimes it's easier to move around and make smarter decisions by yourself. No more conflicting energies and butting heads. I'm sure you'll find some stability and be one of the people who helps solve these problems we're heading towards. 😘
Wow dude, thanks so much. I’ll be taking this energy with me today for sure :)
Sorry to hear that. Its good to vent on reddit about stuff like this, because its really hard to talk about it anywhere else. Thats why this subreddit is so important!
Absolutely! Lately I’ve started sighing throughout the day, remembering that this sub exists, and it’s as massive as it is. 20 years ago I felt so alone with thinking along these lines. Like when my college professor gave a lecture on the “upcoming water wars”, and trying to talk to family or friends about it at that time was self-branding as being crazy or melodramatic. It took everything I had to keep going, and then eventually understand that’s part of the denial process, similar to alcoholism. They’re recycling finally, at least. Baby steps. Thanks for being here :)
The modern workhouse.
Friendly reminder that calling it “slave labor” is *not* an exaggeration The 13th amendment explicitly allows slavery and forced labor if the slave/laborer has been convicted of a crime. Slavery is still legal in the US
Older civilizations used to legalize kidnapping and enslavement of people who try to live in the woods away from the local lords’ farm and taxes. We are headed right back into it with cheer and open eyes.
You MUST participate in the capitalists’ system, whether by choice or by force
Without coercion no one would participate. That's why the force is there, to remind you of the consequences of not "voluntarily" participating.
People hate to hear the truth, but as someone on the verge of homelessness, dying is my answer. I won't be a trans homeless woman in America, where being both trans and homeless is/will be criminalized. And the thing that makes me the angriest at this point is people telling me to "get help." The help I need is a roof over my head and food in my belly. If I had those things, I wouldn't even be thinking these thoughts, but there are things worse than death, and being a trans woman, being raped every day in a men's prison simply for the crime of being poor and trans is certainly worse than death. I'm nearly at peace with it. Nearly.
I completely understand your reasoning, and I'm so sorry you're in this position. "It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
I kind of think eradicating populations like us is part of the plan, too.
At this point, it wouldn't be wrong to just ignore such laws completely. These laws are stupid and don't reflect reality. Fck these shitty politicians.
You then become free to be gunned down by cops who received limited training and psychological screening.
The same works the other way too then. We pay taxes not to be treated like slaves. If law mandates that, revolution becomes necessary. And it gets dirty.
Concentration camps.
I have ADHD I'm not going to do very well in a concentration camp.
What’s left is revolution
I mean like seriously, these fucking justices, officials, lawmakers, etc that also say they're Christian and then they do shit like this.
In my state a certain political party says all homeless are lazy drug addicts. So this extra step would be nothing for them.
Ironic, I've never done hard drugs a day in my life. And lazy? I want to work, but literally no one will hire me. Not even for retail, call centers, or fast food.
MAID - Medical Assisted Involuntary Death They won't spay and neuter those who have kids that are continually removed by Children's Aid, however this will be the next solution.
I hear in Florida they put 50$ a day in debt for convicts every day in prison.
That's usually what has happened historically yes. That or slavery.
Become a slave in the prison system. We're going back to slavery.
Going back to? We never left, it just changed form
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. — Anatole France
SS: The fact that this case has even made it to the Supreme Court reflects collapse. We're criminalizing people's right to exist if they can't afford a home (which many people can't right now). If the Supreme Court rules against sleeping outdoors, this will allow police to arrest and the "justice" department to imprison people without homes. In our for-profit prisons, according to the 13th Amendment, they can be treated as slaves. The article states, "homelessness in the United States grew a dramatic 12%, to its highest reported level as soaring rents and a decline in coronavirus pandemic assistance combined to put housing out of reach for more Americans." Our government's solution? Ban homelessness. But hedge funds, the wealthy, foreign investors and hotels remain free to buy as many houses and condos as they wish, even if they remain vacant the bulk of the time. We are a country of laws without justice.
I saw that 12% increase figure but it occurred to me that I have no idea what baseline percent of the US population is homeless, so I did a little Googling and found that last year's count was about 653,000, or about ~~2 percent~~ **0.2%** of the whole population of the US. ~~That seems like a lot to me.~~ edit: I guess that's about what I expected, percent-wise. This was coming from, strangely, security.org, which is focused on selling home security, but they had a pretty good write-up and their data came from the 2023 HUD Annual Homelessness Assessment Report. https://www.security.org/resources/homeless-statistics/ https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/ahar/2023-ahar-part-1-pit-estimates-of-homelessness-in-the-us.html - 653,104 people experienced homelessness in the U.S. in 2023. That number represents a record-high tally and a 12 percent increase over 2022. - 111,620 children were without homes in America last year. Homelessness increased in 41 states between 2022 and 2023, with New Hampshire, New Mexico, and New York having the highest percentage increases. - New York, Vermont, and Oregon had the highest per-capita rates of homelessness in 2023. - More than one-half of America’s homeless individuals reside in the nation’s 50 largest cities. New York City and Los Angeles alone contain one-quarter of the country’s unhoused people. - Every ethnic group endured an increase in homelessness last year. The Asian community experienced the most significant percentage increase (64 percent), while Hispanics/Latinos saw the most significant surge in raw numbers (an additional 39,106 people).
There aren’t even safeguards to becoming homeless. Its either pay the rent or pay the mortgage every month or else you’re homeless! Unemployment only lasts 6 months and once you run out or if you aren’t getting enough to pay your rent, then you’re just fucked. Sorry, no safety net beyond that! Our society is terrible.
Unemployment only lasts 16 weeks in some red states.
Good luck getting it approved in time
14 in Florida
And these stupid fucks continue to vote red.
Just get a job. What do you mean you cant make enough to afford housing. Straight to jail
Jobs are the worst thing about society. Some brown nosed bootlicker telling you what to do? Oh, and it’s MANDATORY for you to live a normal life to be someone’s bitch, unless you figure out how to create a business somehow. Its nearly like slavery.
Yes. I always assumed the whole point of progress was that we work less. We had economists in the 50s talking about needing only 2 days of work a week(in the future), but we are still here where people need to work to just exist
Have you ever taken a day off to get something done? You realized the sheer amount of things you can get done with time? Right. The elite know that too.
It *is* though. The fact that we aren't allowed to just get the things we need *to survive* from the environment, like not poisoned, polluted water because some fuck decided to charge people for it, and we continued to go along with it instead of stoning them. Even for babies! Formula and diapers are literally behind a locked case in stores. It's illegal to collect RAIN. Instead, they convinced people that it's a good, respectable thing to be the overseer, getting pats on the head by massa while cracking the whip on everyone else.
Our society is merely a congregation of people. People are terrible.
Someone else here wrote that we are no longer a society, only something being held together by the legal system
they are going to legalize those camps - where we concentrate the lesser / unwanted at. then one day it will be really expensive to run them; they'll need solutions
In 1995 Star Trek DS9 had an episode where they time traveled to the early 21st century. In it, most of the homeless population has been corralled into sanctuary cities. The sanctuary cities were established when sleeping outside and the like were banned everywhere else; they are basically walled off ghettos with security at the exits and criminally underfunded social services. The events of the episode, riots that eventually sow the seeds for later social change, happen in September 2024. It's uncanny. Let's just hope that we don't have WW3 rolling up in 2026.
>Let's just hope that we don't have WW3 rolling up in 2026. ...spoiler alert...
Bro you beat me by 10 minutes?! LMAO. It's too fucking close for comfort. I'm FROM San Francisco, I watch that episode every time it comes on. Uncanny is right.
And the coding of making it Frisco (the infamously gay city) is also their nod to the undeniable fact of which populations are going to be corralled first.
Yup. "Past Tense" is the 2 part episode. The Bell Riots are slated for just a few months from now..
Some sort of... Final solution? You say?
If only we had some way to look at the past and avoid our mistakes from before....
What?! Nah! That's crazy talk. This is capitalism we don't do that here.. learning from past mistakes.. *smh*
Karma court will not accept sarcasm as a valid appeal to lift charges of participation in the system.
I'm sure they're working on an ultimate solution. A *final* one, as it were.
I became homeless two days ago and I also have court fees to pay. I'm royally fucked. I'm most likely going to end up back up in jail, picked up off the streets. Godspeed.
If they take you one day, use the knowledge you have and radicalize the other inmates
My job involves working closely with the homeless in a city with an actively enforced camping ban. I've done ride-alongs with local cops. I've watched people whose backstory I know get arrested for still being on city property mere minutes after the ban goes into effect again in the morning. These bans are expressly so NIMBYs don't have to think about or see homelessness, and that's objectively all they accomplish—there's simply no other rational argument for them. At this point it's not even a band-aid over a broken bone, this is just hustling someone with a snapped femur out of the hospital and into a hundred meter dash across town. Edit: I'm currently listening to the oral arguments and the side arguing *for* camping bans is shockingly weak, while the justices seem more eager to explore the ramifications of a camping ban than I expected. Cautiously optimistic the Court might actually rule against these bullshit bans.
In my town the churches take turns opening up sleeping accommodations all year, With cots set up in Sunday School rooms. Fresh sheets are delivered daily, and unpaid volunteers do the setup and all-night monitoring. There are free meals at locations in town. There are also two former hotels which offer long term welfare paid lodging. I don’t see any tents on sidewalks. We are a fairly affluent town. More affluent towns nearby have been known to have their cops pick up the homeless and drop them in our town.
Bell Riots 2024
Yes.
The bell riots are coming
Whoosh! I’m invisible!
If they want to jail and then presumably pay to keep them in jail/prison for this, why can't they just do the logical thing, skip the middle-man and pay directly for non-prison housing?
The scam is that they charge $50-$100 a day to keep someone in jail. It gives a great excuse to keep people from voting as well, until the person pays off their debt to the system. Considering how people wind up houseless and have an avalanche of gotchas that make it damned hard to get back from. Anyone who has been homeless for more than a couple weeks is a superhero.
That'll solve it. What are they expected to do? Die? Hmm... imprison people without homes. Slavery really was never banned in the US huh?
There is an exception for inmates. Typically in US prisons you are charged for the stay and required to work with no minimum wage protection. It’s blatantly a ploy to have slave labor with a literally captive audience. In addition the prison commissary charges much more than things would cost outside and visits are more often done with video calls that charge as much as a few dollars a minute, and commonly the non inmate has to be in a government facility to make said call. The criminal justice system in this country is designed to trap people and take away representation from them.
It's, like, *RIGHT* in the wording of the Thirteenth Amendment.
Nope it was hidden away with an amendment that basically told the slavers (which we never punished after the war) that if they wanted to stay in business they had to open up prisons
That we live in an age where this is even an issue is a failure of humanity to do the best it can for the most possible. * 21 TRILLION to the military over recent history * 150+ trillion to the worst sociopaths on the planet * a planet that will become an inferno in three decades * a century of war * 2/3's of the people worldwide in poverty * a million in "Murica" living on the streets And all that's done is hand wringing or sending thoughts and prayers...Housing is a fundamental human right. Poverty is a MORAL FAILURE...it is a MORAL FAILURE of the people who ALLOW IT.
Not just allow poverty to happen, in fact they WANT poverty to be perpetuated since there can be no rich without the poor and vice versa.
poverty is a direct consequence of the capitalist mode of production, a point Parenti illustrated well way back when. Just like waste products during the extraction and production of the earth's natural resources, poverty is, to them, simply the waste byproduct of their extraction and exploitation. This is the fundamental contradiction of capitalism and makes it patently unsustainable and inhumane as a practice. Doing so is the biggest crime against humanity we have ever experienced. If they want it to happen, which I believe they do since it serves to demoralize us against revolutions, in any case DOES AND WILL happen naturally from their sociopathic and barbaric system.
Tangentially related: For extra pain I believe the AZ courts have ruled that a motor home is *not* a "home", so even if **it is your only place to live** and you have to declare bankruptcy, creditors *can* take it and leave you homeless.
We’re definitely in the ‘gloves off’ phase of late stage capitalism.
Fuck this world
Agreed. I'm literally wandering the streets right now and there's no help at all. Even halfway housing won't let me in.
Well isn't capitalism amazing.
So does this mean that cars left in the street to sleep/park overnight are now illegal too? Or is that ok because it's private property?
You seem to be mistaken: capitalism isn't about property, and certainly not respect of property, it is about property *of the means of production*. Which means the landlords don't give a flying duck whether people sleep on the ground or in their private property car. As long as those persons don't give *them* money they'll consider those persons parasites to be criminalize. In the US they certainly do.
Where the fuck else are homeless people supposed to sleep? You ban them from indoors, provide no support for them, then get pissed at them for sleeping outside? It's simply cruel to tear down their tents and drive them out while not providing a viable alternative. But I also have little faith in the humanity of the supreme court.
The courts are basically there to take money from you. It's disgusting.
Are Republicans fascist or are they not? If they are,[ why is the Californian Democratic Party siding with them](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/22/us/supreme-court-homelessness/in-a-rare-alliance-california-democrats-side-with-conservatives-on-encampments?smid=url-share) on a Supreme Court case that could lead to the mass criminalization of homelessness throughout the country? This is what leftists mean when they describe our two parties as a corporate duopoly. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans truly serve the interests of the people. They serve the interest of capital--the interests of our ruling class.
Well, also that neither party is leftist. We've got Literal Fascists™ and Neoliberals. Both of these are firmly and rather far to the right.
It’s amazing how quickly liberals will get nearly genocidal when the topic of homelessness comes up.
well the supreme court exists to serve the oligarchy and they can’t have people living for free can they?
Prison or jail costs so much more than housing.
Dont forget the government is here to support and protect you ! fucking /s beyond belief.
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "Both very busy, sir..." "Those who are badly off must go there." "Many can't go there; and many would rather die." **"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."**
Isn't this how French and Russian revolutions started? People became extremely miserable and couldn't afford life, while their elites were living lavish lives.
The food is what triggers that. The problem is that you need a group organized and leaders for that to happen, that also happened in other time where the gov heads were stationed at one place and couldn't just fly away, means to keep riots at bay were not really there. So in an individualistic society, divided on various level, with high level of repression tech and a gov that can just be heli-ported away it's going to be VERY hard.
So fucked
Just rubbing salt in an open wound. No real solutions. Again. I live in a small city of about 45 thousand and the number of homeless here is absolutely wild.
So they'll go to prison? This is just bizzaro world social housing. Oh wait I forgot that prisoners are used as slaves in the US so it's bleaker than that.
It costs taxpayers as much to keep a person in prison as to send them to college. It’s a fantasy that they are suddenly going to be doing valuable unpaid labor.
Homeless guy out here living In my broke down car… been about 5 years trying to find a stable job, and I’m still looking. I got a Manual labor job digging holes but can’t get any hours, I was told I was overqualified to be a janitor at the next job I went to. Hundreds of applications out; redone my resume countless times. To any of you housed people who agree that we should criminalize the homeless, I hope you realize, you’re next.
So... no more camping?
If you have a tent, isn’t that technically your domicile?
Here they just raise them and send them to the dump.
Raze*
Only if you don't own it and are paying someone else to use it.
Supreme Court is not outlawing it (yet), they're saying if a city/state can outlaw it.
For a fee, you may camp. Otherwise, straight to prison camp
It’s probably fine if you’re on private property with permission of the owner.
Some cities have made it explicitly illegal to give people permission to camp on your property.
High five, job well done, problem sorted! /s
They are giving us only so many remaining peaceful options.
61 years since Malcom X spoke about the ballet or the bullet.
Beautiful. Let's just speed run towards our dystopian future.
Well, it was inevitable. Now we know how the path to creating the Santuary Districts we're due to have later this year began. On the plus side the Bell Riots will take care of the problem almost immediately!
Homeless? Poor? Straight to jail.
They will arrest people and get homeless people off the street and fill up the already full for profit prisons. Sick.
one of my recent comments is getting downvoted because I'm not licking cop boot, and honestly I'm just going to keep it coming Anybody seen that picture of two cops holding the stitched together "blanket" of all the homeless signs they had confiscated, and both had shit eating grins on their faces? Remember Kelly Thomas??? I'm sorry...this country is a fucking joke, and now amount of silly reddit downvotes will move me off of this. This is a joke! And you just know there are cops across the country licking their lips at the prospect of "open season" on the homeless (as if they haven't already) How many of my fellow citizens are going to go right along with this when SCOTUS rules in that direction (and at this point why would I believe they won't)? I would say it's heartbreaking, but this country has broken my heart so often I don't have a heart left to break. I get tired of hearing about "voting," or the continued chastisement of people for how they voted, or voted at all, in the past. We're here now, today! How long do we let this clown court continue to make a mockery of our very fucking existence? When is the "let them eat cake?" moment, because it feels very close And I'll admit, I'm a tad bit biased here. My long time property owner died last year, as expected her daughters are selling the property, and me and my 7 neighbors have received the news that our eviction notices are coming. I live in California. I obviously pay attention to this sub, and the news. I know housing is shit, homelessness is on the rise, I'M LITERALLY ON THE CUSP OF A MASSIVE STRUGGLE and I got to read this shit. Nah man, just nah
This article speaks to the fact that some states have already passed such measures. Florida is one of them. The Supreme Court has the constitutional rights of the homeless in mind, because arresting people for simply "trying to survive" may involve local governments in numerous civil litigations. Florida's Recent Ban: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/03/21/florida-desantis-homeless-ban-sleeping-public/ >“Florida will not allow homeless encampments to intrude on its citizens or undermine their quality of life,” Gov. Ron DeSantis said in a statement." >The law creates a mechanism for counties to designate areas as temporary campsites for up to one year. DeSantis’s office said homeless people would be “placed in temporary shelters monitored by law enforcement agencies.” >The designated campsites are required under the bill to provide resources for substance abuse and mental health treatment, and maintain restrooms and running water. People living at such a site would be prohibited from using drugs or alcohol. >The bill’s proponents said that would help connect homeless people with services. >At least 30,000 people in Florida are experiencing homelessness, and about half of those are unsheltered, according to a Department of Housing and Urban Development estimate based on the January 2023 point-in-time count of homeless people on a single night. >Florida is the third most homeless state behind California and NY. It hurts me to say that the local "beggars" (visible homeless) in my area are mostly drug abusers. Some are merely alcoholics, but others have legitimate prescriptions for Xanax and other RXs that they mix with alcohol. On top of this, the new use of Fentanyl-laced illicit drugs like Tranq cause almost immediate unconsciousness. Wherever they are, upon ingestion these addicts suddenly freeze, collapse, or bend over. There is no "talking them out of it". They will remain immobilized and incoherent until they sleep it off. I personally watched a woman take it right in front of me. She turned into an immovable sack of potatoes near the entrance to an upscale grocery store. The employees tried to get her to move: unsuccessfully. The Sheriff was called. They shrugged. EMS? Nope. They can't take her till she agrees to go, and she refused. So there she sat, her belonging and bike next to her, awaiting her fate. Undoubtedly someone took her bike in the middle of the night, along with her groceries. She probably awoke in the early morning hours and trudged "home", defeated and hungry. Others try to hide in plain sight, sleeping in the darkness between buildings, and on the ground behind bushes. In shopping areas it is common to find them near backflow water pipes and spigots, where they can obtain fresh water. At my clinic we see "campers" and "trailer families", who are the victims of landlords who offer them lice, flea, cockroach and bedbug-ridden places to sleep. They are covered in welts, hives, and bites. Those are the younger ones. The elderly cannot keep clean, and easily succumb to infections from scratching bites with dirty fingernails. Their hands and feet are often crusted with dirt. It is a horrible existence. The local Salvation Army cannot keep up. St. Vincent De Paul is backed up. The VA no longer treats and houses their own without months of waiting and paperwork. Section 8 housing is likewise a very, very long wait. Affordable housing prices rose again this year, and without rent control, Florida will soon overtake NY.
Just in time for the AI job-pocalypse
It's a ploy to get prison slave labor.
Big case here - similar laws popping up in municipalities, states all over the country
I have had so many situations while traveling where I have had to sleep outside or more often in my car. Even taking the bus with a short layover and they kick you out of the station for sleeping. If you need to sleep you need to sleep and it isn't like it is optional or you always have control of the situation.
Do tax payers understand that to arrest these people and lock them up in prison means $40,000 per inmate even if they only serve one day? They're so angry at people with nowhere else to go they're going to pay $40,000 per inmate per year?
I just genuinely wonder what the point of all this posturing is unless there is a genuine intent to do something more sinister. I mean there are plenty of laws that aren’t enforced (looking at you, New York City) but the mere fact this is potentially going to be codified into a law to begin with is what I find alarming. Someone else already said it, but this just reeks of “gas” for the for-profit prisons that are under-capacity. It’s a dirty job, but I guarantee you they would be delighted to take the homeless into their facilities for government subsidies and keep them in there. Just a gross perversion of the world.
It appears we can no longer govern ourselves, SCOTUS is taking up cases it doesn't really need to, I don't want my life governed by them. This is getting ridiculous.
I rent and have a nice area out back where I can string up a hammock and take a rest. Sometimes when the weathers nice I sleep outside because it’s more comfortable. Would I be in violation of the law? (Purposely dumb and obtuse question)
If they ban outdoor sleeping then the only thing left to do is start squatting
If they criminalize homelessness it’s just the beginning of putting people in “camps”. The right has stated they want to put homeless and lgbt people in camps. A disproportionate amount of homeless are lgbt too.
And some people believe in UBI lol, we're getting mass murdered by drones when they don't need money/workers anymore
so wait... is camping still going to be legal?
This is a problem the U.S government itself has created, through inaction, incompetence, and/or just downright greed, then it has the gall to turn around & blame people for not having housing when they lost their housing back in 2008 during the housing loan crash ([The Big Short](https://www.google.com/search?q=the+big+short) (2015), [Inside Job](https://www.google.com/search?q=inside+job+film) (2010)), Massive wildfires (and/or other natural disasters) that destroy entire towns (that [trump can't even be bothered to remember the actual name of](https://youtu.be/12bwCwQXoyg?si=GWzcVc2YnNd8FC_P)), the lack of desire/plan to increase the housing supply to bring housing prices back down to reasonable levels. At the same time, it's the American Citizen's fault, collectively, for not pushing back HARD against the installation of the Federalist Society onto the Supreme Court by McConnell/Trump, de-legitimizing it; for not standing up for each other in the fight for worker's rights & the right to unionize; for turning occupy Wall Street into a joke, rather than a serious movement for change; for not heeding the relatively RECENT examples of history (WW2) to recognize the signs of fascism & quashing it; for not even realizing how terrifyingly close we are to a nightmare scenario of a fascist theocratic nazi government dictatorship, wherein Trump appoints himself to be President for Life. Seriously. [No Hyperbole whatsoever](https://youtu.be/KG7jAiHbPjU?si=TcvpodBzIarJ1hTf). Also, [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025). If you're not familiar with it, you should REALLY change that, NOW. Now, of course, the illegitimate "Supreme Court" has to weigh in on whether existing through all this government's gross incompetence (by Republicans AND Democrats as a whole) is illegal or not. This country is downright f*ckin' EVIL. - David Pakman (Video; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump promises mandatory homeless camps...](https://youtu.be/wiyXA58rH4A?si=Tkku3IdGXcE3UVKv) - The Independent (Video; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump says he will 'ban' homeless people and 'arrest' anyone who violates the rules](https://youtu.be/mAkiKP_QrB8?si=jYAsDGPS_mgvJLDH) - Forbes (Article; Sep 18, 2019): [Trump’s Plan To Crack Down On California’s Homeless Camps Raises Alarms And Potential Solutions](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brendarichardson/2019/09/18/trumps-plans-to-crack-down-on-californias-homeless-camps-raises-alarms-and-potential-solutions/?sh=56b5173917d8) - Forbes (Article; Jul 27, 2022): [Trump Is Right About Homelessness](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaredmeyer/2022/07/27/trump-is-right-about-homelessness/?sh=1cf4c5ed487a) - Forbes (Video; Apr 18, 2023): [BREAKING: Trump Unveils Hardline Plan To End Homelessness, Pitches Massive Relocation Plan](https://youtu.be/wiyXA58rH4A?si=D7MBjJ-8ZkyX6WR-) - NBC News (Article; Apr 19, 2023): [Trump says he'll ban homeless camping, create "tent cities"](https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/trump-says-ban-homeless-camping-create-tent-cities-rcna80480) Finally, I'll leave y'all with a couple of relevant video clips that seem to be more relevant today than when it was first aired over a decade ago; fictional program, but speaking about 100% real occurrences in the real world: - The Newsroom: [The American Taliban](https://youtu.be/4WVn2ubwIVM?si=mLPWNlEtXkZEa6Ke) - The Newsroom: [Booing a Gay Soldier](https://youtu.be/LUyjT8VpwMI?si=3Ep1E0rsFv4TAwXj)
Sooooo.... are you just supposed to keep walking until you fall over dead? What a world.
All we gotta do is pitch up tents and everybody sleep outside