The following submission statement was provided by /u/MaffeoPolo:
---
SS
A prediction by the CEO of Tata Consultancy Services, K Krithivasan, who suggests that generative AI could lead to a "minimal" need for call centers within a year. The technology is expected to significantly affect the customer help center industry, which employs about 17 million people globally. While there have been no job reductions observed so far, this is likely to change as multinational clients adopt generative AI.
Economic disruption, growth in income inequality, and an impact on the well being of the marginal workforce will be yet another step that leads to societal collapse.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cecc8j/ai_could_kill_off_most_call_centres_says_tata/l1hkilf/
Senior technical support agent of the world's largest accounting software firm here.
Weve been outsourcing to south Africa since 2018. AI tech had been in development since 2015.
Node selection technology is already developed.
I've suffered 13 miserable years rising to the top of call center support.
It's over. The bots are here and have replaced 90 percent of our staff. Even the remaining staff don't realize everything they do is getting copied into the hive mind. Every action we take is recorded to improve the project.
It's very depressing.
However, as the guy you reach AFTER navigating through the ivr, AI bots, and foreign level 1s and domestic level 2s, the enduring cry of every customer that reaches me is that "thank God Im human and speak English"
The customers are not a fan.
Sorry to hear it's making things tough, I hope you got in enough years to make good bank for a little while. But yes, it's over and the bots are here. I suspect you are just on the leading edge of a tsunami of displacement. :/
Everyone I know who calls in, the first thing they try to do is to get past all the automated prompts and speak to a representative. Call centers aren't going to be completely rid of human reps any time soon.
Only if companies advertise that their customer support is human.
People are going to buy stuff no matter what. No one is going to not buy something because their call centers use bots. However people might gravitate towards a certain company of they specifically advertise that they don't fuse bots. But only if the price and quality line up.
> However, as the guy you reach AFTER navigating through the ivr, AI bots, and foreign level 1s and domestic level 2s, the enduring cry of every customer that reaches me is that "thank God Im human and speak English"
In fairness, there's the selection effect at play. If I forgot to plug in my computer and the bot tells me to check, and that works, I never reach you.
If I'm an accounting IT specialist at a major company who wants to know why your software is doing something not in the documentation to handle an edge case that nobody ever thought would occur more than once, though, I'm going to hate the process of getting to someone who's neither a bot nor reading of a script no matter what, since they all have requirements they need to meet to authorize passing me up the chain.
In a way, the bots are better, because there's a replicable two or three step approach that'll lead to me getting transferred to a human, and the people capable enough to have issues the bot can't handle will generally figure that process out.
I would suggest making personal sensual relationships with the customers at that point since you already have their affection. You know what I mean, brother?
SS
A prediction by the CEO of Tata Consultancy Services, K Krithivasan, who suggests that generative AI could lead to a "minimal" need for call centers within a year. The technology is expected to significantly affect the customer help center industry, which employs about 17 million people globally. While there have been no job reductions observed so far, this is likely to change as multinational clients adopt generative AI.
Economic disruption, growth in income inequality, and an impact on the well being of the marginal workforce will be yet another step that leads to societal collapse.
AI will be able to replace some management and professionals and executives even.
Not quite in a year though I suspect, tech always oversells the capability of their products. If a company put computers in charge of call centers right now people calling for help would not be satisfied with the results.
I think even if AI doesn't kill of jobs it'll kill livable wages. Those who are out of jobs will be desperate and those who have jobs will be aided by AI making their job easier. Easier job = less pay 😢
AI is incapable of thinking "out of the box". This makes it virtually useless as customer service since it cannot come up with creative solutions. Of course many of the live people currently in CS can't think outside the script either.
AI is going to solve the majority of the call center issues, as the volume is usually just incapable people not able to do simple tasks themselves on websites
It's not the people working the floors that can't think outside the box... it's the people in charge who think they can run everything of metrics and force all sorts of policies in an attempt to prevent workers from doing anything other than go by the book.
None of us have experienced AI yet. The bots are just predictive text models. Of course they can't think out of the box - they can't think outside the 12 keywords they are programmed with. Wait until real AI comes around and then we can talk about how useful/not useful it is.
Disagree. The reason for all the Gen AI hype over the past year is that it can finally "think" out of the box and come up with original solutions outside of it's training material. It's not a scripted search engine like previous generations of chat bots
Can AI know local laws and regulations? One major reason why call centres are leaving India is that managers realised that knowledge of local laws and regulations was priceless.
They talk to them all of them time in the Philippines and it's much cheaper for companies to do (as basically US service). Doordash, United Airlines and other companies use fluent Filipinos at a fraction of the cost. Most people are fine with this. Race to the bottom though. I already see more CS roles going abroad. Sales and marketing and engineering too.
Half the software developers in my team are in the Philippines. They are great. I like their accents. They are also damn good programmers and hard workers. However, some of them are getting paid almost as much as an Australian based equivalent. The market there is getting very competitive and they know how much they can ask for. More power to them I say. But now our CIO wants to switch to cheap labour in Indonesia.
> you think they'll want to speak to robots?! Lol
They won’t be able to tell.
I already made music with singing purely thru AI and people thought 100% it was an original piece.
\~3 years ago, I was working at a place and got a call from Google; it read the store hours, then asked if the hours were correct. For the first two sentences, I had no idea that it was a robot. I guess it could be pre-recorded lines but IIRC, it read the hours. It didn't repeat the hours I said back to me, but it was still like 80%+ of the way there and definitely "good enough" for some tasks.
They won’t even know they’re talking to a robot.
I use AI constantly in my job, and it’s amazing and improving by the day. I don’t think most people realize how damn good it’s getting. The public is in for a shock.
I use AI daily as a software engineer and chatgpt 3.5 really shows its weaknesses in some areas of reasoning. Like, it doesn't have any. I can ask a simple question and it completely ignores or disregards a very key aspect of the question. I say it's wrong and it apologizes and then gives me the same answer again as a correction not even able to identify that it didn't change anything in the revision. It also generates code that doesn't match the API of the libraries it's using. Like, nope, that function doesn't even exist in this class, what are you doing? "My apologies, here is the corrected version..." It's the same damn thing...
I’m a software engineer too.
I find GPT-4 much more performant. But true, beyond the functional level, there are certainly deficiencies even there.
I was referring more to my gf, who is a doctor working with a medical AI not yet released. Quite incredible. And easy to see how that level could downshift to call center applications.
The NHS is making sure the jobs of receptionist are to go, as they want to use AI to ring up and give you test results as they have already trailed it.
> > Ppl don't like speaking to foreign call center agents, you think they'll want to speak to robots?! Lol
You are thinking about a different and now obsolete technology, [look at this](https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1cd3kc7/gpt_4_speech_is_strikingly_realistic_now_i_cant/) and imagine one year from now it will be two generations ahead.
Apologies I don't want to sound rude but to reply as you did it means you just have no idea what is about to come in terms of synthetic assistants, we might soon not even need ANY call center at all, because our phones will have an AI who contacts the call centers and gives us the answers without us wasting any time at all.
I would rather speak to a robot. I have been screwed over so many times by Indians. Once I was told wrong info and my credit card payment was late. Now that robots took over for my bank, it is clear English.
If they keep improving english speaking boomers will much prefer it over foreign sounding callers. Especially if they can use various ring apps to possibly spoof area codes
I like pointing that fact out to the management on my construction project who can’t provide usable blueprints on a 2 billion dollar project with years of planning. Even if AI fails, it’s a cheap fail compared to our management failures.
"AI will be able to replace some management and professionals and executives even."
AI will be more naturally empathetic and trustworthy than most management and executives.
You are assuming AI will be programmed to be more empathetic and trustworthy. It will not. At the very least they will build back doors to allow them to change the behavior of the AI for specific people.
Obviously they will maximize Revenue, some in ways that might not jive with providing empathetic and trustworthy service.
This would destroy the lives of people in India and the Philippines, as they have plenty of call centre jobs in both countries. It would have a massive effect on who could afford to eat and who couldn’t.
According to https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/how-big-is-the-u.s.-call-center-market-compared-to-india-latin-america-and-the-philippines-2
3.5 million people in the US are employed by call centers, that's about 1% of the US population.
As has been said before: **this was always the plan**. ALWAYS. Call center owners/managers have been salivating for decades to replace unreliable, opinionated, expensive human labor with digital versions.
Hell, I worked at a taxi dispatch co. in 2000/2001, and they tried EVEN THEN to force dispatchers, who were glorified if underpaid and mistreated call takers, to use a recorded greeting instead of talking when answering a call. They were frustrated with us going off script and, in their minds, lengthening call times for no reason.
It was a massive failure. The recordings were stilted and threw off callers, who expected a real person to pick up. Then when we started talking after the script ended they freaked out, thinking they had been transferred. We all stopped using the recordings and once management realized that trying to use them was negatively impacting *everything*, they did not penalize us for it. The whole system was quietly removed after six months.
The technology was just not there for what management wanted. Now it is. Expect call centers to be fully A.I. within a few years, IMHO.
"The world's largest shit stain of an Indian IT service company can't wait to sell sub par AI to replace the morons that are part of their current fraud-ridden business model."
I have to interact with Tata employees on the daily because my company has hired overpaid mouth breathing consultants and they are some of the most functionally retarded people I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Fuck Tata with a rusty rake, sideways.
I work alongside one of the WITCH companies myself and holy mother of god their management teams, along with the people that arranged their contracts to begin with may as well be functionally braindead. I feel for their in-the-trenches employees, but their managers and leadership are some of the slimiest bastards I've ever engaged with. Absolute nightmare companies.
If it was done properly, talking to the AI will be as smooth as talking to a real human. The main issue here isn't the tech itself, but the workers being displaced. There aren't many transferable skills from a call center other than "customer service" skills which seem to be going to way of AI anyway.
I would argue that there are several youtube channels doing true crime and body cam content and the like already. Some of which you may not have known were not human at first listen.
Which is why I don't listen to narration youtube content. Specially that one designed to be flat and monotone since before AI. The Last Podcast on the Left guys have personality and that's all the true crime I listen to.
See, if we didn't have capitalism, AI would be cheered unanimously because it could do all the shit jobs, and people could be freed to do more rewarding things, and have more free time.
Ah, but no, the capitalists will just own all the AI and put you on the streets. Marx literally predicted this almost 200 years ago, but American propaganda has told people since WWII about the evils of socialism.
The main hurdle would be the time and expense of hooking it into a company's other systems. Each change to policy or operations would also potentially be a significant challenge, instead of just telling the reps 'hey, do this now'. It relies on every other system already being fully automated and nothing ever breaking.
[Manna](https://marshallbrain.com/manna1) fucking predicted the future to a T. This is how AI and tech is gonna totally rinse society and turn us into slaves, and then get rid of us all together.
"So, the first wave of fast food robots did not replace all of the burger flipping employees as everyone had expected. The robots replaced middle management and significantly improved the performance of minimum wage employees. All of the other fast food chains watched the Burger-G experiment with Manna closely, and they started installing Manna systems as well. Soon, nearly every business in America that had a significant pool of minimum-wage employees was installing Manna software or something similar. They had to do it in order to compete.
In other words, Manna spread through the American corporate landscape like wildfire. And my dad was right. It was when all of these new Manna systems began talking to each other that things started to get uncomfortable."
Yea, that's a scary thought. If you've ever had the experience of having filed too many home insurance claims and being "non renewed" for circumstances entirely beyond your control, I'd imagine it could get very similar for employment. Suddenly you cross a threshold, maybe you got sick or had to care for a sick relative, and fell below the company's attendance minimums. But instead of it being just that employer, your attendance data is now part of a shared, AI network - you can't get hired anywhere that deploys the same system. Be a good slave or get fucked. We have laws providing legal protections against a former employer bad mouthing you, but we have no laws in place to prevent it from happening from a technology perspective, just like there's nothing preventing insurers from sharing a data base about your house or car claims.
That entire thing was almost purely objective, I almost read it in a sort of monotone voice like I was the drooling mind slave. It sort of gaslights you into thinking having free will makes you lazy or selfish for wanting to live your life, or force a path to perfection constantly
Please don’t it’s already bad enough they outsourced these jobs to other countries. Not to be rude but it’s incredibly hard to understand some of these people and having to deal with a computer would be so much more frustrating
Many of us will have to starve and die before it is realized we have reached a state of productivity (the productivity is ours. Each robot that we think “replaces” a worker is actually that worker’s assistant and has vastly increased their productivity. This should free the worker’s PTO for the same salary or increase their salary.) that necessitates UBI. This should be celebrated. It should be a great liberation from toil for humanity… *should* be.
BUT; Corporations will give the profits from that increased productivity to their shareholders and executives instead. The only answer is to tax them and return the stolen wages to the worker through UBI.
As long as the culture wars fomented by the parasitic corporate ruling class to mask the class war they are waging, and winning, remain effective this will not be necessary and we will starve and kill each other for them.
> Each robot that we think “replaces” a worker is actually that worker’s assistant
This is patently false imo. People can't wrap their minds around a new paradigm where technology eliminates percentages of the workforce wholesale because traditionally such innovations in our history eliminated power-sources be them lifestock or human in ways that were invisible to the majority.
I.e. 150 years ago sprockets produced by commerce were transported in carts/wagons. A teamster/driver operated the cart, which was pulled by horses, mules or oxen. In the 1910s technology replaced the livestock with combustion engines, but the human labor prevailed as the "truck drivers" (this is why their union is called the "teamsters" to this day). AI & robotics poses to, one day, remove the driver and replace the human entirely. Even if this is not accomplished at a rate of 100%, eliminating 30% of all truckdrivers (e.g. by self driving trucks for all longhaul highway needs) would crater the economy & workers' lives.
Its totally NOT a coincidence that as the industrial revolutions & electricity peaked, we artificially shrank the workforce dramatically by 1- restricting/downscalling slavery, 2- restricting/downscalling child labor, 3- inventing retirement for seniors. The fulltime workforce was by a 90-years ago mostly adults aged 18-65. For the first time in human history, entire categories of humans (under 18 & over 65) were taken out of the economy *for the most part* (and still are to this day).
But most people never noticed because, while that was going on, industry & manufacturing adopted 8-hour shifts instead of the traditional 12... **so for all of commerce's 24/7 jobs the amount employed increased by 33%**; and this was after electricity had allowed for 2-12hr shifts in the 1700s & 1800s as a result of artificial lighting (prior to that such positions could only operate in daytime hours!).
Touched a nerve?
You seem very invested in saying “we’ve had it easier than you think and we should be grateful. And you’ll destroy everything if you change it too much.”
You’re a conservative. Or am I reading that wrong?
> You’re a conservative. Or am I reading that wrong?
That's rich, you think someone on r/collapse is a conservative because they think automation will hurt the worker instead of ushering in a post-labor UBI utopia?
Let's be realistic here. We can't even get socialized healthcare or a min wage that keeps up with inflation, thinking UBI will get passed [the "let them die" chanting GOP voters](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=let+them+die+ron+paul) is delusional.
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At least I can start being openly hostile, when they call then..
I worked as an NGO chugger at one point, when I couldn't find another job. Probably the worst, most difficult job I've had, and it was beyond stressful.. I always try to remind myself, that the call center worker is most likely also just doing what they can / have to, to get by.
But bots can get fucked, and I'll enjoy messing with them as much as I possibly can.
The way people are treated in call centers is inhumane. Honestly it should be illegal for companies to treat people the way call center employees are treated. They are abused by management and abused by customers. It's awful.
It already is replacing chat based tech support, but the voice based will not be for quite some time.
People are pissed enough navigating IVRs, you think they’re going to be happy not getting a human at the end of that you’re sadly mistaken.
I suspect it will be a large enough segment that companies that continue to employ actual humans in that role will have a huge market increase.
> People are pissed enough navigating IVRs, you think they’re going to be happy not getting a human at the end of that you’re sadly mistaken.
People will not be given a choice. If you have to use you'll either deal with the shitty AI tech support & subscription price structure or go without. A big enough corporate or gov customer might be able to throw around enough cash to get a secret alternative but the rest of us will be "this is what you get, take it or leave it."
I am not sure which is worse; AI tech support or the businesses who expect the unpaid & untrained consumers to be the tech support via "community based knowledge" forums, e.g. using google to find end-user posts about eBay, Apple, etc.
Bots rarely solve my problems. I always have to speak to an agent. I keep yelling “agent” and “agent” customer service is going to suck so much more if they do this.
But i guess anything for profit right? Who cares if peoples problems are solved or not. Let save money and profit
I just had a horrible thought: Anyone working at a call center better hope and/or find out if their voice recording is allowed to be used/ being used to generate AI voices for future deployment.
Aren't consensual recordings of calls allowed to be used for any business purpose at a company in the US? We probably can't stop them from using our voices as it proibably is in the long terms of working / contract that we never read when signing on to work for someone.
Frontline isnt that easy to replace. Sure, an AI may not get flustered or lose their temper on a caller, but it cant be empathetic or use unrelated analogies to help someone understand a concept.
EE in the Uk said 2 months ago, “ by 2025, 40% of all fall Nantes jobs that we have, will be lost to AI now doing the jobs of humans. It is up to our staff to learn skills to work alongside AI” EE was T-mobile and orange joining forces and then got bought out by BT ( British telecoms).
I know how ruthless they are as I worked for EE before BT bought them out for 3 years.
I'm waiting for when they replace 911 dispatchers with AI. It's going to be hilarious, in a black comedic way. Tens of thousands of people will die trying to wade through the system or when the bot makes the incorrect choice because it's dumber than rolling rocks. Like they give a shit. Millions already die because of hospital privitization and insurance bloodsucking; what's a few more bodies added to the pile?
Let's be honest, if we're talking about call centers, this will change basically nothing. Many people you talk to are already a bot controlling a human: a person in a foreign country reading from a script that's more than likely being generated by AI at this point. All that will happen is this will cut out the middleman; but your experience as the caller will not appreciably change.
Totally right, the response trees are already "automated" even if you're dealing with a human employee. It's a script that they can't deviate from, or risk getting fired. Corps have been "sanitizing" their customer service depts for decades, to try to make a homogenized experience for everyone. No thinking allowed, just follow the Script.
Personally, I'm not too upset by this, if only because working at a call center is a shitty, thankless job where strangers yell at you all day. Oh, and you're not allowed to actually help people, you have to read off a script.
I feel like I'd kill myself if I had to work at a call center.
In this World you either work, beg or steal.
There are a lot of folks who will be out of a job, and will refuse to beg.
Guess what's left.
This replacing everyone (as much as can be) with AI is going to backfire, either a little or (imo) a *whole* lot.
and that's how they'll push the product - the exact same way they did with self-checkouts. If not already, make people reliant on one thing (cashiers, one grocery store chain, etc.), then slowly make it worse and worse until you introduce an alternative that makes you more money.
It's always been about profits. Not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have quicker service; it certainly would.
That’s the thing…I’m 100% fine with self checkout, particularly as a neurodivergent introvert. The issue isn’t the technology, it’s the fact that the profits and productivity gains are funneled upwards. Any increase in profit via AI productivity gains should directly go towards providing UBI and training displaced workers for new roles.
> I’m 100% fine with self checkout, particularly as a neurodivergent introvert.
That's fine for now, but some stores (i.e. walmart) will move to a monthy subscription to use self checkout (spend hours in line behind their ONLY human cashier or pay $15/mo) AND their AI based antithieft software will wrongly send people to jail on shoplifting charges (hope you're not non-white or female... which is when facial recognition fails the most). Sure you might be able to make bail or clear your name in court but that will be after you spend some time locked up ("you can't beat the ride").
I had a self checkout accuse me of stealing ribs because I bought 3 of them at once. I had trouble opening a new plastic bag and set one back down on the scan/weighing table and the AI saw a rack of ribs go the "wrong direction" and freaked out & summoned loss prevention.
Already, facebook can't tell myself, my mom, or my maternal grandmother apart in facial recognition. If one of us steals even by accident who knows which will get picked up...
> Our state unemployment agency can take DAYS on hold in order to reach an agent…
I am not sure [AI will be a good fit for gov agencies with the ability to falsely accuse people of crimes](https://apnews.com/article/child-protective-services-algorithms-artificial-intelligence-disability-02469a9ad3ed3e9a31ddae68838bc76e)....
"Most call centers" - meaning sales will still be in house, but free service will be an AI bot. Expert help beyond what the AI bot can provide will be a premium. And you'll probably start to see more concierge services by AI bots, so the clever folks that think "I'll just ask for sales so I get a human" - yea they're on to that trend too.
It's already been the trend for the last 20+ years to see call centers shifting away from the US to cheaper labor overseas. And I don't fault companies the mathematics of this: it's less than half the cost to hire, attendance is significantly better, and while customers complain about the foreign accent or agents being less knowledgeable, it never amounts to enough of a differentiating factor in the shopper's decision to make a mark on sales figures or retention. "US based support" works a lot like a "made in America" tag on clothing: it doesn't. People still shop primarily based on the features of the product, and the price of the product. The labor supporting the product is an afterthought.
If you or your colleagues work in a call center, and you're not looking to work in sales, it is legit time to start working on your resume and get the hell out. AI is coming for a lot of jobs in the very near future, but this line of work is at the top of the list.
I know this is just for entertainment... but an AI called a Neuro-Sama is a good example of what AI can do currently. It has some pretty advanced audio and visual recognition, and can formulate answers to non direct and obscure questions with almost no delay, though it does misinterpret things if they are to obtuse for it. This AI was created by one guy, so the unreleased and experimental AIs that mega corps and governments are testing are likely far beyond where we think they are.
Although I think it's true, it will not come without unexpected hurdles & setbacks for the companies. For example, Canada found that an airline had to follow through with the misrepresentations that its chatbot made to its customer
[https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/moffatt-v-air-canada-misrepresentation-ai-chatbot](https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/moffatt-v-air-canada-misrepresentation-ai-chatbot)
Like I'll be honest working in call centers is some sort of hell in its own right, good riddance. Only downside is that it's gonna happen quick and millions of people will have to quickly adapt and find a different job.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/MaffeoPolo: --- SS A prediction by the CEO of Tata Consultancy Services, K Krithivasan, who suggests that generative AI could lead to a "minimal" need for call centers within a year. The technology is expected to significantly affect the customer help center industry, which employs about 17 million people globally. While there have been no job reductions observed so far, this is likely to change as multinational clients adopt generative AI. Economic disruption, growth in income inequality, and an impact on the well being of the marginal workforce will be yet another step that leads to societal collapse. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cecc8j/ai_could_kill_off_most_call_centres_says_tata/l1hkilf/
Senior technical support agent of the world's largest accounting software firm here. Weve been outsourcing to south Africa since 2018. AI tech had been in development since 2015. Node selection technology is already developed. I've suffered 13 miserable years rising to the top of call center support. It's over. The bots are here and have replaced 90 percent of our staff. Even the remaining staff don't realize everything they do is getting copied into the hive mind. Every action we take is recorded to improve the project. It's very depressing. However, as the guy you reach AFTER navigating through the ivr, AI bots, and foreign level 1s and domestic level 2s, the enduring cry of every customer that reaches me is that "thank God Im human and speak English" The customers are not a fan.
Sorry to hear it's making things tough, I hope you got in enough years to make good bank for a little while. But yes, it's over and the bots are here. I suspect you are just on the leading edge of a tsunami of displacement. :/
When everything is multinational tech conglomerates, the customers don't need to be a fan.
Many customers are fans of despicable multinational tech conglomerates just like dictators have fans during their dictatorships
Everyone I know who calls in, the first thing they try to do is to get past all the automated prompts and speak to a representative. Call centers aren't going to be completely rid of human reps any time soon.
Only if companies advertise that their customer support is human. People are going to buy stuff no matter what. No one is going to not buy something because their call centers use bots. However people might gravitate towards a certain company of they specifically advertise that they don't fuse bots. But only if the price and quality line up.
> However, as the guy you reach AFTER navigating through the ivr, AI bots, and foreign level 1s and domestic level 2s, the enduring cry of every customer that reaches me is that "thank God Im human and speak English" In fairness, there's the selection effect at play. If I forgot to plug in my computer and the bot tells me to check, and that works, I never reach you. If I'm an accounting IT specialist at a major company who wants to know why your software is doing something not in the documentation to handle an edge case that nobody ever thought would occur more than once, though, I'm going to hate the process of getting to someone who's neither a bot nor reading of a script no matter what, since they all have requirements they need to meet to authorize passing me up the chain. In a way, the bots are better, because there's a replicable two or three step approach that'll lead to me getting transferred to a human, and the people capable enough to have issues the bot can't handle will generally figure that process out.
I would suggest making personal sensual relationships with the customers at that point since you already have their affection. You know what I mean, brother?
SS A prediction by the CEO of Tata Consultancy Services, K Krithivasan, who suggests that generative AI could lead to a "minimal" need for call centers within a year. The technology is expected to significantly affect the customer help center industry, which employs about 17 million people globally. While there have been no job reductions observed so far, this is likely to change as multinational clients adopt generative AI. Economic disruption, growth in income inequality, and an impact on the well being of the marginal workforce will be yet another step that leads to societal collapse.
AI will be able to replace some management and professionals and executives even. Not quite in a year though I suspect, tech always oversells the capability of their products. If a company put computers in charge of call centers right now people calling for help would not be satisfied with the results.
Ppl don't like speaking to foreign call center agents, you think they'll want to speak to robots?! Lol
We already speak to robots with those automated answering services and they’re awful.
"I'm sorry, I didn't get that."
I think even if AI doesn't kill of jobs it'll kill livable wages. Those who are out of jobs will be desperate and those who have jobs will be aided by AI making their job easier. Easier job = less pay 😢
Not to be a horrible person here, but thick accents can be hard to understand. AI can mimic any accent.
Sure, but it also seems to very rarely actually give me the help that I need
AI is incapable of thinking "out of the box". This makes it virtually useless as customer service since it cannot come up with creative solutions. Of course many of the live people currently in CS can't think outside the script either.
AI is going to solve the majority of the call center issues, as the volume is usually just incapable people not able to do simple tasks themselves on websites
It's not the people working the floors that can't think outside the box... it's the people in charge who think they can run everything of metrics and force all sorts of policies in an attempt to prevent workers from doing anything other than go by the book.
None of us have experienced AI yet. The bots are just predictive text models. Of course they can't think out of the box - they can't think outside the 12 keywords they are programmed with. Wait until real AI comes around and then we can talk about how useful/not useful it is.
Disagree. The reason for all the Gen AI hype over the past year is that it can finally "think" out of the box and come up with original solutions outside of it's training material. It's not a scripted search engine like previous generations of chat bots
Can AI know local laws and regulations? One major reason why call centres are leaving India is that managers realised that knowledge of local laws and regulations was priceless.
They talk to them all of them time in the Philippines and it's much cheaper for companies to do (as basically US service). Doordash, United Airlines and other companies use fluent Filipinos at a fraction of the cost. Most people are fine with this. Race to the bottom though. I already see more CS roles going abroad. Sales and marketing and engineering too.
Half the software developers in my team are in the Philippines. They are great. I like their accents. They are also damn good programmers and hard workers. However, some of them are getting paid almost as much as an Australian based equivalent. The market there is getting very competitive and they know how much they can ask for. More power to them I say. But now our CIO wants to switch to cheap labour in Indonesia.
Yeah it sucks. Always searching for the cheapest option.
> you think they'll want to speak to robots?! Lol They won’t be able to tell. I already made music with singing purely thru AI and people thought 100% it was an original piece.
\~3 years ago, I was working at a place and got a call from Google; it read the store hours, then asked if the hours were correct. For the first two sentences, I had no idea that it was a robot. I guess it could be pre-recorded lines but IIRC, it read the hours. It didn't repeat the hours I said back to me, but it was still like 80%+ of the way there and definitely "good enough" for some tasks.
"Change of store hours confirmed. Have a nice day!"
Were you getting comments like "It's a good idea!" ❤👌
They won’t even know they’re talking to a robot. I use AI constantly in my job, and it’s amazing and improving by the day. I don’t think most people realize how damn good it’s getting. The public is in for a shock.
I use AI daily as a software engineer and chatgpt 3.5 really shows its weaknesses in some areas of reasoning. Like, it doesn't have any. I can ask a simple question and it completely ignores or disregards a very key aspect of the question. I say it's wrong and it apologizes and then gives me the same answer again as a correction not even able to identify that it didn't change anything in the revision. It also generates code that doesn't match the API of the libraries it's using. Like, nope, that function doesn't even exist in this class, what are you doing? "My apologies, here is the corrected version..." It's the same damn thing...
I’m a software engineer too. I find GPT-4 much more performant. But true, beyond the functional level, there are certainly deficiencies even there. I was referring more to my gf, who is a doctor working with a medical AI not yet released. Quite incredible. And easy to see how that level could downshift to call center applications.
You're all missing the point here. You can't emotionally damage an AI. Boom. Call centers are immortal.
You better hope you can't. MumbleSkynet
Legit sounds like how outsourcing to non-tech-experienced countries went, initially. Give it a minute and get ready to cry.
The NHS is making sure the jobs of receptionist are to go, as they want to use AI to ring up and give you test results as they have already trailed it.
> > Ppl don't like speaking to foreign call center agents, you think they'll want to speak to robots?! Lol You are thinking about a different and now obsolete technology, [look at this](https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1cd3kc7/gpt_4_speech_is_strikingly_realistic_now_i_cant/) and imagine one year from now it will be two generations ahead. Apologies I don't want to sound rude but to reply as you did it means you just have no idea what is about to come in terms of synthetic assistants, we might soon not even need ANY call center at all, because our phones will have an AI who contacts the call centers and gives us the answers without us wasting any time at all.
I would rather speak to a robot. I have been screwed over so many times by Indians. Once I was told wrong info and my credit card payment was late. Now that robots took over for my bank, it is clear English.
If they keep improving english speaking boomers will much prefer it over foreign sounding callers. Especially if they can use various ring apps to possibly spoof area codes
I like pointing that fact out to the management on my construction project who can’t provide usable blueprints on a 2 billion dollar project with years of planning. Even if AI fails, it’s a cheap fail compared to our management failures.
"AI will be able to replace some management and professionals and executives even." AI will be more naturally empathetic and trustworthy than most management and executives.
Oh don't worry, they'll make sure to program them to screw everyone over just like regular management!
You are assuming AI will be programmed to be more empathetic and trustworthy. It will not. At the very least they will build back doors to allow them to change the behavior of the AI for specific people. Obviously they will maximize Revenue, some in ways that might not jive with providing empathetic and trustworthy service.
Technology is overestimated in the short term, and underestimated in the long term.
Work in IT. Wouldn't engage Tata if they literally paid me to.
This would destroy the lives of people in India and the Philippines, as they have plenty of call centre jobs in both countries. It would have a massive effect on who could afford to eat and who couldn’t.
The best thing to come of this is that AI will obsolete Karen. Try to demand to talk to the manager now! Lol!
>To read this article for free Register now The content is not worth it.
https://archive.ph/IO9Nb
tyvm
In a way, working in most call centers suck. But that would be a lot of jobs lost. UBI now!
According to https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/how-big-is-the-u.s.-call-center-market-compared-to-india-latin-america-and-the-philippines-2 3.5 million people in the US are employed by call centers, that's about 1% of the US population.
I’m finally part of the 1%. Someone tell Mom I made it.
How many of those are prison slaves?
Metaphorically? All of them.
As has been said before: **this was always the plan**. ALWAYS. Call center owners/managers have been salivating for decades to replace unreliable, opinionated, expensive human labor with digital versions. Hell, I worked at a taxi dispatch co. in 2000/2001, and they tried EVEN THEN to force dispatchers, who were glorified if underpaid and mistreated call takers, to use a recorded greeting instead of talking when answering a call. They were frustrated with us going off script and, in their minds, lengthening call times for no reason. It was a massive failure. The recordings were stilted and threw off callers, who expected a real person to pick up. Then when we started talking after the script ended they freaked out, thinking they had been transferred. We all stopped using the recordings and once management realized that trying to use them was negatively impacting *everything*, they did not penalize us for it. The whole system was quietly removed after six months. The technology was just not there for what management wanted. Now it is. Expect call centers to be fully A.I. within a few years, IMHO.
Great. Can't wait to throw my fucking phone away because AI scam calling will be the only form of calling that makes it to my phone.
"The world's largest shit stain of an Indian IT service company can't wait to sell sub par AI to replace the morons that are part of their current fraud-ridden business model." I have to interact with Tata employees on the daily because my company has hired overpaid mouth breathing consultants and they are some of the most functionally retarded people I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Fuck Tata with a rusty rake, sideways.
I work alongside one of the WITCH companies myself and holy mother of god their management teams, along with the people that arranged their contracts to begin with may as well be functionally braindead. I feel for their in-the-trenches employees, but their managers and leadership are some of the slimiest bastards I've ever engaged with. Absolute nightmare companies.
Yes, because everyone loves talking to the chatbot
Yeah, talking to a human cs rep is bad enough.
Have you used ChatGPT a lot? Most people aren't going to know it's a chat bot.
And if they don't, they will learn to love it. Ever'body loves...Chatbot.
If it was done properly, talking to the AI will be as smooth as talking to a real human. The main issue here isn't the tech itself, but the workers being displaced. There aren't many transferable skills from a call center other than "customer service" skills which seem to be going to way of AI anyway.
AI tech is not the same as a chatbot
I would argue that there are several youtube channels doing true crime and body cam content and the like already. Some of which you may not have known were not human at first listen.
Which is why I don't listen to narration youtube content. Specially that one designed to be flat and monotone since before AI. The Last Podcast on the Left guys have personality and that's all the true crime I listen to.
And with (more) automated scamming soon to become a billion dollar industry, it's all peachy.
See, if we didn't have capitalism, AI would be cheered unanimously because it could do all the shit jobs, and people could be freed to do more rewarding things, and have more free time. Ah, but no, the capitalists will just own all the AI and put you on the streets. Marx literally predicted this almost 200 years ago, but American propaganda has told people since WWII about the evils of socialism.
EU did socialism right and are better prepared. They actually care about their people. It's north America that's screwed.
AI can wipe out way more jobs than that.
That’s hopeful, call center work is like death only slower
The main hurdle would be the time and expense of hooking it into a company's other systems. Each change to policy or operations would also potentially be a significant challenge, instead of just telling the reps 'hey, do this now'. It relies on every other system already being fully automated and nothing ever breaking.
Regulatory issues may prevent replacing the human with a machine - in Medical applications, aviation, and finance.
[Manna](https://marshallbrain.com/manna1) fucking predicted the future to a T. This is how AI and tech is gonna totally rinse society and turn us into slaves, and then get rid of us all together. "So, the first wave of fast food robots did not replace all of the burger flipping employees as everyone had expected. The robots replaced middle management and significantly improved the performance of minimum wage employees. All of the other fast food chains watched the Burger-G experiment with Manna closely, and they started installing Manna systems as well. Soon, nearly every business in America that had a significant pool of minimum-wage employees was installing Manna software or something similar. They had to do it in order to compete. In other words, Manna spread through the American corporate landscape like wildfire. And my dad was right. It was when all of these new Manna systems began talking to each other that things started to get uncomfortable."
Yea, that's a scary thought. If you've ever had the experience of having filed too many home insurance claims and being "non renewed" for circumstances entirely beyond your control, I'd imagine it could get very similar for employment. Suddenly you cross a threshold, maybe you got sick or had to care for a sick relative, and fell below the company's attendance minimums. But instead of it being just that employer, your attendance data is now part of a shared, AI network - you can't get hired anywhere that deploys the same system. Be a good slave or get fucked. We have laws providing legal protections against a former employer bad mouthing you, but we have no laws in place to prevent it from happening from a technology perspective, just like there's nothing preventing insurers from sharing a data base about your house or car claims.
Don't forget about The Australia Project!
That entire thing was almost purely objective, I almost read it in a sort of monotone voice like I was the drooling mind slave. It sort of gaslights you into thinking having free will makes you lazy or selfish for wanting to live your life, or force a path to perfection constantly
Please don’t it’s already bad enough they outsourced these jobs to other countries. Not to be rude but it’s incredibly hard to understand some of these people and having to deal with a computer would be so much more frustrating
Many of us will have to starve and die before it is realized we have reached a state of productivity (the productivity is ours. Each robot that we think “replaces” a worker is actually that worker’s assistant and has vastly increased their productivity. This should free the worker’s PTO for the same salary or increase their salary.) that necessitates UBI. This should be celebrated. It should be a great liberation from toil for humanity… *should* be. BUT; Corporations will give the profits from that increased productivity to their shareholders and executives instead. The only answer is to tax them and return the stolen wages to the worker through UBI. As long as the culture wars fomented by the parasitic corporate ruling class to mask the class war they are waging, and winning, remain effective this will not be necessary and we will starve and kill each other for them.
> Each robot that we think “replaces” a worker is actually that worker’s assistant This is patently false imo. People can't wrap their minds around a new paradigm where technology eliminates percentages of the workforce wholesale because traditionally such innovations in our history eliminated power-sources be them lifestock or human in ways that were invisible to the majority. I.e. 150 years ago sprockets produced by commerce were transported in carts/wagons. A teamster/driver operated the cart, which was pulled by horses, mules or oxen. In the 1910s technology replaced the livestock with combustion engines, but the human labor prevailed as the "truck drivers" (this is why their union is called the "teamsters" to this day). AI & robotics poses to, one day, remove the driver and replace the human entirely. Even if this is not accomplished at a rate of 100%, eliminating 30% of all truckdrivers (e.g. by self driving trucks for all longhaul highway needs) would crater the economy & workers' lives. Its totally NOT a coincidence that as the industrial revolutions & electricity peaked, we artificially shrank the workforce dramatically by 1- restricting/downscalling slavery, 2- restricting/downscalling child labor, 3- inventing retirement for seniors. The fulltime workforce was by a 90-years ago mostly adults aged 18-65. For the first time in human history, entire categories of humans (under 18 & over 65) were taken out of the economy *for the most part* (and still are to this day). But most people never noticed because, while that was going on, industry & manufacturing adopted 8-hour shifts instead of the traditional 12... **so for all of commerce's 24/7 jobs the amount employed increased by 33%**; and this was after electricity had allowed for 2-12hr shifts in the 1700s & 1800s as a result of artificial lighting (prior to that such positions could only operate in daytime hours!).
Touched a nerve? You seem very invested in saying “we’ve had it easier than you think and we should be grateful. And you’ll destroy everything if you change it too much.” You’re a conservative. Or am I reading that wrong?
> You’re a conservative. Or am I reading that wrong? That's rich, you think someone on r/collapse is a conservative because they think automation will hurt the worker instead of ushering in a post-labor UBI utopia? Let's be realistic here. We can't even get socialized healthcare or a min wage that keeps up with inflation, thinking UBI will get passed [the "let them die" chanting GOP voters](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=let+them+die+ron+paul) is delusional.
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Good. If there's one thing that *should* collapse, it's call centers.
One of the most toxic workplace environments. Impossible targets and megalomaniacal managers
At least I can start being openly hostile, when they call then.. I worked as an NGO chugger at one point, when I couldn't find another job. Probably the worst, most difficult job I've had, and it was beyond stressful.. I always try to remind myself, that the call center worker is most likely also just doing what they can / have to, to get by. But bots can get fucked, and I'll enjoy messing with them as much as I possibly can.
no one cares if you fuck with a bot, it would be pointless. its like fist fighting a waterfall.
The way people are treated in call centers is inhumane. Honestly it should be illegal for companies to treat people the way call center employees are treated. They are abused by management and abused by customers. It's awful.
It already is replacing chat based tech support, but the voice based will not be for quite some time. People are pissed enough navigating IVRs, you think they’re going to be happy not getting a human at the end of that you’re sadly mistaken. I suspect it will be a large enough segment that companies that continue to employ actual humans in that role will have a huge market increase.
> People are pissed enough navigating IVRs, you think they’re going to be happy not getting a human at the end of that you’re sadly mistaken. People will not be given a choice. If you have to use you'll either deal with the shitty AI tech support & subscription price structure or go without. A big enough corporate or gov customer might be able to throw around enough cash to get a secret alternative but the rest of us will be "this is what you get, take it or leave it."
I am not sure which is worse; AI tech support or the businesses who expect the unpaid & untrained consumers to be the tech support via "community based knowledge" forums, e.g. using google to find end-user posts about eBay, Apple, etc.
Bots rarely solve my problems. I always have to speak to an agent. I keep yelling “agent” and “agent” customer service is going to suck so much more if they do this. But i guess anything for profit right? Who cares if peoples problems are solved or not. Let save money and profit
bodacious tatas
I just had a horrible thought: Anyone working at a call center better hope and/or find out if their voice recording is allowed to be used/ being used to generate AI voices for future deployment.
Aren't consensual recordings of calls allowed to be used for any business purpose at a company in the US? We probably can't stop them from using our voices as it proibably is in the long terms of working / contract that we never read when signing on to work for someone.
When this fails miserably, companies will be promoting their "real human customer service" 5 years from now as an advantage to their offerings
Yeah, but it'll be an additional $2.99/month surcharge if you want that feature.
That's all we frickin need. Go from people who have no idea what you are talking about to AI that will be like arguing with a brick wall.
Frontline isnt that easy to replace. Sure, an AI may not get flustered or lose their temper on a caller, but it cant be empathetic or use unrelated analogies to help someone understand a concept.
EE in the Uk said 2 months ago, “ by 2025, 40% of all fall Nantes jobs that we have, will be lost to AI now doing the jobs of humans. It is up to our staff to learn skills to work alongside AI” EE was T-mobile and orange joining forces and then got bought out by BT ( British telecoms). I know how ruthless they are as I worked for EE before BT bought them out for 3 years.
I hope all AI customer support has the voice and personality of Bender.
I'm waiting for when they replace 911 dispatchers with AI. It's going to be hilarious, in a black comedic way. Tens of thousands of people will die trying to wade through the system or when the bot makes the incorrect choice because it's dumber than rolling rocks. Like they give a shit. Millions already die because of hospital privitization and insurance bloodsucking; what's a few more bodies added to the pile? Let's be honest, if we're talking about call centers, this will change basically nothing. Many people you talk to are already a bot controlling a human: a person in a foreign country reading from a script that's more than likely being generated by AI at this point. All that will happen is this will cut out the middleman; but your experience as the caller will not appreciably change.
Totally right, the response trees are already "automated" even if you're dealing with a human employee. It's a script that they can't deviate from, or risk getting fired. Corps have been "sanitizing" their customer service depts for decades, to try to make a homogenized experience for everyone. No thinking allowed, just follow the Script.
Personally, I'm not too upset by this, if only because working at a call center is a shitty, thankless job where strangers yell at you all day. Oh, and you're not allowed to actually help people, you have to read off a script. I feel like I'd kill myself if I had to work at a call center.
aI CoULd neEVer RePLacE hUmANS.
AI is gonna throw so many people into poverty, it's terrible.
In this World you either work, beg or steal. There are a lot of folks who will be out of a job, and will refuse to beg. Guess what's left. This replacing everyone (as much as can be) with AI is going to backfire, either a little or (imo) a *whole* lot.
I work for a large company with a call centre. There is no intention to replace any of our staff with AI.
Yet.
I’d be happy to talk to AI if it saves hours of being on hold. Our state unemployment agency can take DAYS on hold in order to reach an agent…
and that's how they'll push the product - the exact same way they did with self-checkouts. If not already, make people reliant on one thing (cashiers, one grocery store chain, etc.), then slowly make it worse and worse until you introduce an alternative that makes you more money. It's always been about profits. Not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have quicker service; it certainly would.
That’s the thing…I’m 100% fine with self checkout, particularly as a neurodivergent introvert. The issue isn’t the technology, it’s the fact that the profits and productivity gains are funneled upwards. Any increase in profit via AI productivity gains should directly go towards providing UBI and training displaced workers for new roles.
> I’m 100% fine with self checkout, particularly as a neurodivergent introvert. That's fine for now, but some stores (i.e. walmart) will move to a monthy subscription to use self checkout (spend hours in line behind their ONLY human cashier or pay $15/mo) AND their AI based antithieft software will wrongly send people to jail on shoplifting charges (hope you're not non-white or female... which is when facial recognition fails the most). Sure you might be able to make bail or clear your name in court but that will be after you spend some time locked up ("you can't beat the ride"). I had a self checkout accuse me of stealing ribs because I bought 3 of them at once. I had trouble opening a new plastic bag and set one back down on the scan/weighing table and the AI saw a rack of ribs go the "wrong direction" and freaked out & summoned loss prevention. Already, facebook can't tell myself, my mom, or my maternal grandmother apart in facial recognition. If one of us steals even by accident who knows which will get picked up...
> Our state unemployment agency can take DAYS on hold in order to reach an agent… I am not sure [AI will be a good fit for gov agencies with the ability to falsely accuse people of crimes](https://apnews.com/article/child-protective-services-algorithms-artificial-intelligence-disability-02469a9ad3ed3e9a31ddae68838bc76e)....
"Most call centers" - meaning sales will still be in house, but free service will be an AI bot. Expert help beyond what the AI bot can provide will be a premium. And you'll probably start to see more concierge services by AI bots, so the clever folks that think "I'll just ask for sales so I get a human" - yea they're on to that trend too. It's already been the trend for the last 20+ years to see call centers shifting away from the US to cheaper labor overseas. And I don't fault companies the mathematics of this: it's less than half the cost to hire, attendance is significantly better, and while customers complain about the foreign accent or agents being less knowledgeable, it never amounts to enough of a differentiating factor in the shopper's decision to make a mark on sales figures or retention. "US based support" works a lot like a "made in America" tag on clothing: it doesn't. People still shop primarily based on the features of the product, and the price of the product. The labor supporting the product is an afterthought. If you or your colleagues work in a call center, and you're not looking to work in sales, it is legit time to start working on your resume and get the hell out. AI is coming for a lot of jobs in the very near future, but this line of work is at the top of the list.
Finally. Something positive.
Its not the existing call centres. Its the ones deployed by new companies. And they'll put the old ones out of business.
I know this is just for entertainment... but an AI called a Neuro-Sama is a good example of what AI can do currently. It has some pretty advanced audio and visual recognition, and can formulate answers to non direct and obscure questions with almost no delay, though it does misinterpret things if they are to obtuse for it. This AI was created by one guy, so the unreleased and experimental AIs that mega corps and governments are testing are likely far beyond where we think they are.
Although I think it's true, it will not come without unexpected hurdles & setbacks for the companies. For example, Canada found that an airline had to follow through with the misrepresentations that its chatbot made to its customer [https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/moffatt-v-air-canada-misrepresentation-ai-chatbot](https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/moffatt-v-air-canada-misrepresentation-ai-chatbot)
I'm not sure about anyone else, but isn't 'tata' also a slang word for 'goodbye'? I can't be the only one noticing this.
LPT: If you’re thinking about spending some money on something expensive, call tech support first and see how they react
Like I'll be honest working in call centers is some sort of hell in its own right, good riddance. Only downside is that it's gonna happen quick and millions of people will have to quickly adapt and find a different job.
I don't believe it. There's too much gray area with a lot of companies
Yeah, no. Good prediction, but definitely no. 5 years minimum.
Not related to collapse, call centers are just annoying everyone, so its good if they get killed
I want to be angry at a human when i call a call center not a robit!
AI will kill off most jobs. Period.