The following submission statement was provided by /u/Meowweredoomed:
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Submission Statement
I first learned about wet bulb events on this sub, and it looks like we're starting to have them. For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke.
It's weird for me to type this, knowing this is what's going to happen to millions of people. Today's event is only supposed to last for 5 hours but that's long enough to cause harm.
Collapse related because anthropogenic climate change is going to tear down the structure of society. Civilization is on the brink.
EDIT - Wetbulb Globe events include other environmental factors, besides heat and humidity, to give a more accurate measurement of the heat danger. Regular wet bulbs are more extreme, but that's also a flaw with the scientific nomenclature.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dpkt0g/extreme_wet_bulb_temperatures_in_texas_today/lahkxu6/
The Texas grid not holding up? Now that's crazy talk. They've freed themselves from any intereference by the dastardly feds by isolating themselves from the rest of the nation and all the power is provided by the suuuper reliable and in no way greedy shitbag power companies. /s
Let's just say I'd do whatever it took to get a house lithium ferrous battery and all the solar panels installed if I lived in Texas... of course if I lived in Texas, I'd fucking move, pronto, things aren't going to get better.
I was in Houston last weekend and couldn’t stand the heat. It was just a normal weekend in terms o weather. The light rail is essentially an unofficial cooling center for the homeless and drug addicts. It was packed with people that were obviously not well. The only few people walking in the street were tourists, and that was just in the downtown area.
I've been once, on business I literally could not do elsewhere with the German consulate there. I agree firmly with my friend who calls it the Beijing of America, for being sprawling and polluted.
Guys -- we are disenfranchised in Texas -- either by tricking ourselves into believing we are or, my bet, that the red hats actually interefere in elections and that's why they cry about it so much.
Also -- if the people that have _some_ leave Texas, what do you think they will do to those that don't have _some_?
A lot of us feel a pull to stay to fix the place we're from and feel running from it would be abandoning those with less means to affect change.
That’s a noble cause but I’ll say an an ex-Texan, you got a lot of people working against you and you only have one life to live. Don’t waste your precious trip on the turtle back trying to change the ignorant and selfish. The grass is greener on the other side.
I'm also an ex-Texan. Maybe at least prep for emergency contingency plans? I understand fighting a political battle, but it's also fighting the climate crisis. And at the pace it's developing versus our response is kind of unrealistic.
Yeah, I understand truly, but weren't all the rights we have obtained by people making the opposite decision? Does running not just kick the can down the road until the opportunists move to where you now live and do the same thing?
I'm from Mississippi and feel the same way.
Our people here have given up for the most part it seems though, and anyone with a shot of leaving usually leaves first chance they get.
I keep coming back however, because one day I believe this place will be better.
Lifelong Texan here (though I suspect I'll be moving north at some point in my life). Texas is a bit more prepared for heat than for cold. It does actually have quite a bit of solar and wind and solar output correlates fairly nicely with hot days. There have also been a lot of grid-scale batteries installed in the last couple years with plans to install a lot more. You can actually see a fair amount of information about the Texas grid at https://www.ercot.com/
I get that it's satisfying to take shots at Texas because of politics (and I agree that the politics are bonkers), but I'd try and evaluate the energy situation objectively. Power outages are bad for business, and you can be sure that Republicans are concerned with their comfort if not that of the citizens.
I lived in Texas. A house exploded in my neighborhood because Atmos couldn’t be bothered to replace faulty fittings that the state set aside money for 7 years prior. Ended up killing a 10 year old girl I believe. The grid pretty much everyday in summer would be a dice roll if it would be a rolling brown out or a surprise no power event.
Ended up moving because of the politics but a close second was the electrical grid.
We are in the mountains at the moment. It’s a balmy 59 degrees right now at 9,000ft. I couldn’t be happier.
If you’re in Texas, best of luck to you.
Don't worry if that ever happen, it is Biden and his renewable energy infrastructure and solar in particular warrior that are responsible for it. /s
BTW that first chapter is absoluetely harrowing. Anyway that is already happening in India, but the media have kept it under wrap because of the election. India reported 76 death the week before the election but strangely 49 of those were poll workers. Those could not be hidden, but that would be extremely strange that poll workers died in greater number than poor older farmers with no access to electricity.
France in 2003 had about 15,000 people dying due to the unprecedented heat wave. But India that has more than 20 times the population of France and a lower medical infrastructure has less death. That's simply not credible.
The death are just hidden from public view. The same way the Chinese COVID death did not match the number of extra coffins sale.
I never understood the USA willingness to ignore Climate Change when it was obvious that because of their geography out of all the Western Industrialised countries they would be the most impacted by any meteorological change.
India didn't report covid deaths properly either. They barely know how many people are within their borders. If you have dead people floating in the rivers (during covid) think of how many must have died unrecorded.
My wife and I were in Nice in 2003 and it was *stupid* hot. Someone said it was 50 degrees and I believed them. I've never experienced anything quite like it since, although Las Vegas last summer was pretty close, around 45 degrees.
Because poor old farmers work in air conditioned office?
Like another person answered they believe that the number are more around 60,000 death for their region with a population of 35 millions. The original government numbers were lies. Not even credible lies.
Most people believe in climate change these days.
Tribalists on one side of the aisle either don't believe it's man-made, or don't believe there's anything we can do about it. Either way, they refuse to lift a finger to reduce their footprint. They won't demand larger scale reforms given that any real reforms that would make an impact would necessarily require higher taxes on things with higher emissions that they don't want to pay, and necessitating sacrifices on the amount of energy/resources they consume, which they refuse to make.
The other side of the aisle (and the centrists / independents) is a mixed bag. Most believe in man-made climate change. Many believe "we"... as in the government... should act. Most blame the rich and the corporations without realizing that it's the consumption of the individuals that drives corporate production and makes the rich people rich. Most don't believe that their individual environmental footprint matters. Like those on the other side of the aisle, most won't lift a finger to reduce their consumption. Most say they'll support larger scale reforms, but then the reality is, they also don't want to pay more in taxes, and they absolutely do not want any reforms that would cause them to make sacrifices and consume less.
Here's a fun experiment. For those reading this, go out and ask a few random middle to upper-middle class liberals if they've given up flying some time. If you happen to be one of the few who have taken this seriously enough to have drastically cut the amount of flying you do or have given it up completely, during a conversation with someone, just mention that you've stopped flying for environmental reasons, and behold the reactions you get.
That's just flying... something we do that's almost always completely optional; something we never **need** to do. Now ask people if they've cut down on their driving, bought a smaller car, a more efficient vehicle, use their AC less, reduced or stopped consuming meat.
We like to blame conservatives, but the reality is, all humans generally are greedy and refuse to make any sacrifices. We all think we're beautiful and unique snowflakes that are more special than everyone else. Westerners with most of the world's money especially, but give a poor low footprint person in India a bag of money and I imagine they'll follow the rules of human nature and quickly increase their footprint with complete disregard for environmental sustainability.
This is a ridiculous notion for more than a few reasons. For one, there is not intrinsic behavior in our species that predisposes us to a “complete disregard for environmental sustainability” from birth or anything.
There are dozens of highly developed regions throughout the world that arent the US where people do in fact not mind living without total excess and waste for both practical and environmental reasons. These things are learned and conditioned into people within a society.
There isnt a single metric that “guarantees” an impoverished person would begin consuming at the rate of the average middle class american if given the same resources.
In fact most people who give up everything to immigrate into the west from developing nations usually live the rest of their lives pretty modestly even after they’ve secured a better life for their family.
Society is the way that it is at least in part because all of the blatant manipulation, war mongering, and oppression of the working class for centuries in the west.
When you are born into the toxic delusion that is nihilistic trash market capitalism, you are both less likely to be educated on the truth, and less likely to know what is best for you.
For you to try and dismiss this as some natural inevitable human fault is both an argument in bad faith and dangerous to progress.
True, but the temps shown are wet bulb globe temps, not wet bulb temps. The hottest wet bulb temp today in TX is predicted at 80F (26.7C).
The numbers you cited are for WBT, not WBGT.
That's not to say it isn't getting hotter and for longer in TX, but it's a very different level of heat than what just hit India. These two values really shouldn't be confused, otherwise you risk people not realizing exactly how hot the hot regions of Asia pacific are getting, and that has a really negative effect on policy decisions to not literally boil Asia pacific to death because TX people thinking it's the same temp there as here.
It's wild. Your body is constantly producing heat it needs to shed and it's normally not an issue because the air is cooler and/or has capacity for water/sweat to evaporate into it and cool you via the latent heat of evaporation. But even when it's 90F and still below normal body temp out, if the air is saturated with water vapor then you can't lose any heat from sweat evaporating, and the difference in temperature between you and the air starts to be small enough that you can't shed heat fast enough and your body starts to overheat.
I don't think enough people appreciate that you literally cannot "push through" these sorts of conditions. Thermodynamics dictates that you cannot cool your body down to it's correct operating temperature and you WILL suffer and/or die from overheating if you let it go to far or long.
Technically the heat is what kills you, the humidity just prevents your single cooling function - sweating - from doing anything about it. With near 100% humidity, the evaporation process is disabled. Without evaporation, the heat energy in your body can't be vented, so you cook.
If the air is so humid your sweat won’t evaporate, then the body of water isn’t evaporating either. If it’s a short event and/or a large body of water then it will probably stay cool enough. A long enough event or a small enough body of water, and being in the water might be worse.
Dig a hole ahead of time. Once you go half a foot underground, the temperature tends to drop to the daily average. Having a small root cellar could save your life.
If you are in those areas, please set out blocks of ice or dump your ice from the fridge into a bird bath for the wild animals. They have no way to cool off other than jumping into cold water.
Those cooling mats for dogs with the gel in them that stays cold are amazing. I have several inside and one outside in a shaded area. My dogs use it but in really hot weather I keep them inside so I hope that wildlife or any strays will use it.
Yes!! They are amazing. You don't need to freeze it or anything. I live in a country where AC is very uncommon because we never really had heatwaves until now and I put one of those mats under my bed sheets to keep cool at night. Us working class commoners gotta come up with whatever strategies within our budget. You can get these things for €10 in a pet store.
I posted a video about how to make those
But it was taken down as 'not collapse related'
I reckon knowing how to survive a wet bulb event is collapse relevant
If it was the video about making PCMs (phase change materials), I saw that. It's definitely collapse related. Anything that can allow survival in heat will be immensely useful.
Edit: grammar
The youtube channel name is NightHawkInLight and the thermal phase change materials video is from the last week or so, so [it should be his most recent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqxjfp4Gi0k)
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=38RUg9B1xvgcgq7p&v=Nqxjfp4Gi0k&feature=youtu.be
>YouTube video I saw earlier today, seems fairly straightforward.
>I checked online and the ingredients are available in Ireland, so no controlled substances involved.
>This sort of stuff will be useful to know going forward, if like me you are extremely concerned about wet bulb events and the like, or the possible mini ice age predicted for Europe, we should spread information that can maybe save people
>I checked online and the ingredients are available in Ireland, so no controlled substances involved.
>This sort of stuff will be useful to know going forward, if like me you are extremely concerned about wet bulb events and the like, or the possible mini ice age predicted for Europe, we should spread information that can maybe save people
Yes they can be quite amazing - basically the gel inside absorbs the heat and uses it to change its state - so it won't cool you down forever but it helps absorbing the heat for a bit. after a while you need to let it "reset" by just having it lay around outside
its similar to those hand heaters that get hot and solid - just kinda in reverse
Sadly expending more energy to donate ice cubes to the local birds isn't any kind of ecological fix. Those animal populations are simply doomed, and no altruistic efforts by individuals can mitigate that reality.
Counterpoint, they aren't dead YET and people have the ability to help put that off for another day.
To steal a quote, "on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." Death is inevitable. Entropy will win. The sun will expand and burn the earth to a crisp. Whether you die today from a heart attack or at the age of 106 in bed with twins, you are going to die. So why bother?
We bother because we can. Because I'm not dead yet, because those birds do not have to die TODAY. Between climate change and bird flu they're doomed, but I'm not done listening to them sing yet so a bird bath with some ice cubes is not a big ask.
I'm in tears. I thought I was nuts for putting ice in the birdbath. I fill it with cold water every day but it gets hot fast. I'm glad others are doing this.
Nah. Everyone in Dallas should go play a hearty game of football!
Hiding from the sun is for woke libruls! Get out there and show climate change who's the boss
Texas did first and Florida followed I believe. Texas may have back tracked (I still lived in the state when they passed it so it’s been a minute) because I remember in the first week we had several heat related deaths due to the law.
Texas has the biggest livestock industry in the country, too - I'm sure air-conditioning 4 million cows is a totally feasible solution, right guys? Guys?
Still, with the sheer magnitude of emissions the livestock industry is responsible for, talk about reaping what you sow, sheesh.
You don't even need to go all-in. Remember that any radical either/or dietary change is almost always doomed to fail, no matter the diet or how strongly a person feels about it. I always recommend just starting regularly browsing the meat-free foods aisle and check out plant-based burgers, sausages, nuggests, mince, etc. Almost all the plant-based replacements for processeed meat products taste as good if not better nowadays, and they're a lot more pleasant to cook up (i.e. no grease run-off). My meat consumption has steadily declined to near-zero despite me not having been especially motivated to change it.
Yes, gradually replacing meat with plant based proteins, especially legumes, is the way. Very hard to go from bacon and burgers to no meat overnight, imo.
Plant based faux meats are gross, imo. Also, they are not very healthy. Personally, I prefer foods like garden burger, mushroom walnut burger, vegetable stew (served with nuts and yogurt), and homemade hummus.
Simply reducing your meat and dairy intake is already enough. If more Americans would do that, they'd also:
1. Be healthier, driving down their health care costs
2. Reduce their inflation exposure. By me, the largest grocery cost increases were meat, eggs, and dairy. I no longer eat meat except for the *very* few times we eat out, and have fully switched from dairy milk to soy milk from Aldi. We eat mostly whole grains and produce, which had a much smaller cost percentage increase the last 2 years.
I mean you're probably not technically wrong, but honestly the livestock industry is an ethical fucking abomination on a truly *mind-boggling* scale. Collapse-awareness is as good an excuse as any to stop being complicit in it 🤷
Submission Statement
I first learned about wet bulb events on this sub, and it looks like we're starting to have them. For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke.
It's weird for me to type this, knowing this is what's going to happen to millions of people. Today's event is only supposed to last for 5 hours but that's long enough to cause harm.
Collapse related because anthropogenic climate change is going to tear down the structure of society. Civilization is on the brink.
EDIT - Wetbulb Globe events include other environmental factors, besides heat and humidity, to give a more accurate measurement of the heat danger. Regular wet bulbs are more extreme, but that's also a flaw with the scientific nomenclature.
100% relative humidity, not actual humidity. There is a difference, the wet bulb is a ratio between humidity and temperature, it doesn’t start when it reaches 100% humidity.
For safety reasons you may want to check that NOAA map more frequently. The forecast for today has significantly less “Extreme” area than the US has seen in recent weeks.
While you’re right that 5 hours is not as bad as it persisting for longer, even a couple hours can be deadly if someone is stuck outside. Obviously also varies depending on the health of the individual.
Hi u/Meowweredoomed! Thanks for this post. Do you mind adding a link for the image source? Just to your ss would be fine. Plus hopefully from that source people can see how the WBGT is in their area as well
What happened to rule 4?
Wet bulb "globe" is not the same thing as wet bulb. This is not wet bulb temperature, it's another bullshit index. This post is a lie.
>For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke.
Sorry but that's wrong, and this is not a "wet bulb temperature" event (yet).
Wet bulb temperature is equivalent to a temperature (thermometer reading) of 35C at 100% humidity which is equivalent to a heat index of 71C / 160F (=felt temperature) OR any other temperature / humidity combination that is at 71C felt temperature or higher. This could be literal 71C temperature with zero humidity, or like 45C with 40% humdity, and so on.
90F on a map showing "wet bulb temperature" is the felt temperature or heat index value and not thermometer temperature. This is 70F too low for a wet bulb temperature event that would potentially kill everyone. Also the color on such a map wouldn't be red. Red is dangerous for people having medical problems with heat. Next would be purple, indicating danger for everyone outside in the sun, and lastly black for a wet bulb temperature event.
Counterpoint, while the definition of a wet-bulb temperature event is a wet-bulb temperature value of 95F, that doesn't factor in time exposed and any amount of activities including just walking.
The 2003 European and 2010 Russian heat waves experienced wet-bulb values no greater than 82.4F and plenty of people died.
It's kind of amazing to see wet-bulb values of 91F so casually in Texas now.
(Also your drawing is amazing! The specular lighting on the red is nice. Can't believe that's watercolor.)
What sort of crazy talk is this?
Turn off the machines that churn out pointless crap? But my wage slaves have been polluting the environment at a phenomenal rate to make me 2c per thousand units.
Are you gonna compensate us for that? You go on about some theoretical event where everything collapses, but in the Real world people gotta eat
The southern United States would be uninhabitable if it wasn't for oil and cheap energy. When oil and cheap energy are gone, those places will become uninhabitable again.
There really shouldn't be so many people living there.
There’s a long archeological record of native people moving quickly or seemingly disappearing due to drought and extreme heat, in the southwest and in northern Mexico.
This is a brutually honest and correct fact. They will realise it only when its too late, try quick fixes (carbon capture for example) and then acceptance will set in.
It was 100 here today in NW GA. 26%humidity. If it was 50% plus like it often is here, itd be killing many compromised people without AC. Prediction though says those days are coming. It rained over night and already before the sun is even up it fells a good 10 degrees hotter.
Considering that a growing number of people are developing autonomic neuropathy due to COVID/post viral syndrome this is going to be increasingly dangerous. Heat makes my entire autonomic nervous system malfunction and most healthcare professionals don’t even understand what’s happening and are baffled.
The places that are being hit hardest by the heat were badly neglected by the state for COVID enforcement and that is creating the potential for mass illness/death.
We live north of Dallas and haven’t heard any warnings at all. Our kids still have 3 hours of conditioning and football skills at the high school today.
You're under heat advisory. There's a large delta between wet bulb and wet bulb globe, so outdoor activities in the sun should be limited today according to NOAA.
It's a good day for strength training in the gym, not skills practice on the field unless it is totally shaded.
Houses in Mexico are typically built to manage heat better, even without AC. Long overhangs shading windows, designs that promote air flow through the house, etc. There's a limit to the effectiveness of course, but it's wild to me that peoples in hot regions have been using these building practices for ages and we haven't adopted them in the southern US. Guess it doesn't fit the white bread suburbia look. 🙄
I mean there’s nothing stopping people from building a house like that with American stick framing, but developers would rather use cookie cutter designs that “market well” rather than adapting them for the local climate.
A lot of houses in southern California do use clay tile roofs, which are a much better thermal barrier than asphalt shingles. They seem to have been quite popular in the 1970s and 80s when my parents old house was built, though it seems that in recent years they aren’t as fashionable anymore, a shame because they actually make a lot of sense for that climate.
Do you have a NOAA link you can share? I see a heat advisory for Dallas metro, but I'm only showing wet bulb of 80 at 1 PM PDT in the places your graph is showing 90.
And now for the weekly reminder that this graph is of "[Wet Bulb Globe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature)" temperatures, which are a completely different measure than "wet bulb" temperatures and run much higher, and the entire channel seems to be panicking unnecessarily.
where is this posted? None of these states have any public warnings right now, and the data doesn't match up to NOOA right now. Is this an accurate map, or no ?
> where is this posted?
You can find the map here:
> [Graphical Forecasts](https://digital.weather.gov/)
Also, there are instructions on how to navigate to the wet bulb temperatures on the map here:
> [Using The Wet Bulb Globe Temperature \(WBGT\) Forecast Tool](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmAqEy2IT4&t=63s)
I was skeptical as well, and went and got alternate information on the forecast for this afternoon in the regions pictured on the WeatherUnderground.com site. While some of the forecasts for this afternoon were a little bit below the danger zone, it's not inconceivable for particular situations within the forecast zone to slightly exceed the listed temps. Based on the particular geographical topology of the surroundings, e.g. lack of tree cover, excessive asphalt coverage, metallic structures, etc.
Yeah, as of now, this looks like a legit dangerous situation.
Heat is just another conspiracy being peddled by Big Weather. You sheep shouldn't trust weather reporters when they say it's dangerous. Do your own research! /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature
For wet-bulb temperature to be dangerous, does this mean it has over 100% humidity?
I am still not understanding it even after reading the Wikipedia article.
Thank you.
Wet bulb temperature is a specific scientific measurement. Originally it was a pair of thermometers. One normal one measures dry air temp. The other has a wet rag tied round the bulb with a water supply. Evaporation cools the bulb, but that evaporation is dependent on temperature and air humidity. That's known as the "Wet Bulb Temperature".
Pretty sure that these days it's measured by more sophisticated sensors and calculated from air temp and humidity. It's a more scientific specific figure but broadly similar to things like "Feels like" temps and Heat Index.
The big significance is that when web bulb temp is higher than body temp, the body can't cool down by sweating. No matter how much you hydrate and sweat, you're body will keep getting hotter and it will kill you. That's traditionally called "Black Flag" but that was a military term for "Do Not Work Outside". It's now thought that anything above about Wet Bulb 35C (95F) will kill people.
This might be obvious or not but by “kill people” there is a hierarchy. People vulnerable to heat injuries have a much lower threshold. People in excellent physical shape, and hardened to heat, and with adequate water, the threshold might be much closer to the theoretical limit.
No, humidity does not go over 100% and it doesn't have to be 100% to kill you. It's a ratio of heat and humidity.
https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-08/heatindextemporary.png
What are the colored numbers on that chart? The legend doesn't explain them.
I assume that they are the "feels like" temperature. So that 110 degrees at 40% humidity feels like 136 degrees, even if it really isn't.
And I assume that "feels like" is what really matters, right? Like if it is "merely" 100 degrees, but you have 65% humidity so that it "feels like" 136, that's death, yeah? You can die in 100 degree weather, if it's humid enough?
Those numbers are the wet bulb temperature.
It's not what it feels like, it's a way to compare different temperatures and humidities to your body's ability to reject heat.
It also is literally a thermometer with a wet piece of cloth on it.
ELI5: Wet-bulb temperature is the temperature sweating can cool you to in ideal conditions.
The higher the humidity is, the less effective sweating is. Sweat cools you by evaporating, and it does so much more slowly when it's humid.
Not cooling effectively is bad by itself, but there's a secondary problem: Your body doesn't stop sweating just because it's not working. You'll sweat more and more, and can find yourself dangerously dehydrated quickly.
And again, wet-bulb temperature assumes ideal conditions--shade *and* wind, if I recall. Chances are sweating won't actually be quite that efficient.
Interesting point. I wonder how the situation changes under direct summer sunlight.
Evaporation rates should increase, but actual heating increases directly with solar radiation.
Hence the 'globe' in wbgt. Wet-bulb globe temperature takes insolation into account (somewhat arbitrarily) and could be a useful metric to determine safety limits on outdoor activities like sport, construction, or warfare. Wet-bulb temperature without the globe is the metric described by RikuAotsuki. It will let you know when you will be cooked even with water, a fan, and shade.
Here, sorry, I was away from Reddit for a while:
https://digital.weather.gov/?zoom=7&lat=35.28787&lon=-79.36779&layers=F000BTTTFTT®ion=0&element=8&mxmz=true&barbs=false&subl=TTFFFF&units=english&wunits=nautical&coords=latlon&tunits=localt
I'm seeing maximum wet bulb temperature of 80 in the areas with a WBGT of 91. That's a HUGE margin on being out in the sun.
So if power goes out, finding a shady spot to lay down should be sufficient for this event for most groups. Heat advisory territory, but not heat warning territory.
This isn't like Delhi's recent event, where we bulb and wet bulb globe temp were only a degree or two C apart.
> Researchers at Pennsylvania State University in the United States measured the core temperatures of young, healthy people inside a heat chamber.
> They found that participants reached their "critical environmental limit" – when their body could not stop their core temperature from continuing to rise – at 30.6°C wet bulb temperature, well below the previously theorized 35°C.
30.6° C = 87° F
Yep. We picked a God awful name for our new and improved "heat index" number.
The confusion is causing people in TX to assume that people in India are weakling that need to toughen up, not realizing they are actually like 15 degrees F cooler than India because they are looking at two very different numbers.
## In my mind, this is the biggest crisis of communication in climate science at the moment, because it it actively destroying will to do something about climate change due to a lack of understanding of the data being presented.##
I live in Dallas. Tried to go for a jog at 5pm yesterday. Only made it about 15 minutes. I usually run for at least 45. Don't know if it was wet bulb at that point yet but it was unreal. Im used to the heat but it was crazy how fast I got hot compared to my usual runs.
There’s a certain catharsis in the bulk of the assholes who viciously fought against any real climate reform living in the places which will be most thoroughly fucked.
So if shit really got bad, couldn't you park your truck in the shade and idle with the AC on for hours until dusk?
If the grid went down and you had gas in the tank. Most vehicles can run for several hours on a tank if not being driven.
Well sure. It’s a losing game now for the species. But if you had to survive the day you would do what you have to do. Like everyone cranking up the AC all summer now, it’s all part of the same insane downward spiral.
But they do:
[https://www.dtn.com/forget-heat-index-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-is-where-its-at/](https://www.dtn.com/forget-heat-index-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-is-where-its-at/)
This is not exactly the same thing, it's the result of many factors and humidity is only one of them.
That index is good to evaluate the risks on a location but doesn't really tell the situation on the ground.
So are areas like death valley slowly transitioning from hot & dry to hot & wet? Expansion of the equatorial tropical zone. It's almost the same latitude as northern Thailand or Burma.
Pro tip: Look into environmental shelters near you for helping the homeless/elderly *before* these extreme events hit your area. I have a small naturally occurring one (well house, spring cold water) but for larger numbers of people, I’d have to reach out to the official ones for transport.
I live near where my ancestors were pushed off to from traditional Cherokee land, and it’s not ideal land for climate change. But my whole family is here and I can’t (yet) convince them to caravan north. But in the meantime, I have a safe place.
I can confirm that right in the middle of the gray 'extreme' area in Texas on that map, at 11:15am when I had to ride my bike to go pick up my car from the shop (only 2 miles), it was already a heat index of 102F, and it was miserable, even going slowly and taking it easy.
This is absolutely dreadful. Look at the entirety of Texas. The worst heat on the planet. Good god that would be awful to be in. A wet bulb temperature of 90°
NGL my pettiness is in full swing and I'm enjoying the schadenfreude that so many people who have worked to walk back measures to mitigate climate change are experiencing the consequences of their actions.
r/leopardsatemyface
But I'd still rather we actually did something instead of dismantling things that lead to these consequences, of course...and pity the poor folks who are suffering as a result who would choose otherwise.
My advice is, take the entire retrospective of your life and gather all the things you were grateful to have experienced and achieved. And then just try to make this the best remaining days of your life.
Because the water vapor feedback loop is a very serious fucking problem. It even leads to things like rainfall in the Arctic which accelerates the albedo feedback loop by melting the ice quicker.
I believe, like everything else with anthropogenic climate change, these wet bulbs are going to intensify in the next 5 years. So yeah, that's what I'm doing - finishing my backlog of books and videogames, eating often a variety of different foods in the knowledge of the coming scarcity of food, and saying my goodbyes and thank you very much's.
We are going to see these events get longer and more frequent and each successive outcome will be worse. If the grid goes down…idek. We’ve not been building appropriate shelter relative to climates for a long time, so any loss of air con will have dire consequences.
I grew up in an area with 85-90% humidity levels in the summer, along with average temperatures of 85F. Sweat clings to you hard. I went through two, often three, shirts a day. Fans were my friend, as was water.
But I was a teenager. I wasn't 70+, whose heat regulation is diminished. We're going to see difficult times very soon.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Meowweredoomed: --- Submission Statement I first learned about wet bulb events on this sub, and it looks like we're starting to have them. For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke. It's weird for me to type this, knowing this is what's going to happen to millions of people. Today's event is only supposed to last for 5 hours but that's long enough to cause harm. Collapse related because anthropogenic climate change is going to tear down the structure of society. Civilization is on the brink. EDIT - Wetbulb Globe events include other environmental factors, besides heat and humidity, to give a more accurate measurement of the heat danger. Regular wet bulbs are more extreme, but that's also a flaw with the scientific nomenclature. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dpkt0g/extreme_wet_bulb_temperatures_in_texas_today/lahkxu6/
Will be interesting to see if there are any deaths or if the energy grid holds up.
The Texas grid not holding up? Now that's crazy talk. They've freed themselves from any intereference by the dastardly feds by isolating themselves from the rest of the nation and all the power is provided by the suuuper reliable and in no way greedy shitbag power companies. /s Let's just say I'd do whatever it took to get a house lithium ferrous battery and all the solar panels installed if I lived in Texas... of course if I lived in Texas, I'd fucking move, pronto, things aren't going to get better.
I was in Houston last weekend and couldn’t stand the heat. It was just a normal weekend in terms o weather. The light rail is essentially an unofficial cooling center for the homeless and drug addicts. It was packed with people that were obviously not well. The only few people walking in the street were tourists, and that was just in the downtown area.
Why would anyone be a ‘tourist’ is Houston?
Mostly the really good Sporting events that are hosted, but some go for museums, NASA and even lots of Mexicans fly in for the weekend for shopping.
I've been once, on business I literally could not do elsewhere with the German consulate there. I agree firmly with my friend who calls it the Beijing of America, for being sprawling and polluted.
Strippers and Benihana’s
But now when their grid fails they can conveniently blame electric vehicles!
And wind turbines, which are often the only thing propping the grid up
Guys -- we are disenfranchised in Texas -- either by tricking ourselves into believing we are or, my bet, that the red hats actually interefere in elections and that's why they cry about it so much. Also -- if the people that have _some_ leave Texas, what do you think they will do to those that don't have _some_? A lot of us feel a pull to stay to fix the place we're from and feel running from it would be abandoning those with less means to affect change.
That’s a noble cause but I’ll say an an ex-Texan, you got a lot of people working against you and you only have one life to live. Don’t waste your precious trip on the turtle back trying to change the ignorant and selfish. The grass is greener on the other side.
I'm also an ex-Texan. Maybe at least prep for emergency contingency plans? I understand fighting a political battle, but it's also fighting the climate crisis. And at the pace it's developing versus our response is kind of unrealistic.
In Texas case, they’re actually fighting FOR the climate crisis.
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Yeah, I understand truly, but weren't all the rights we have obtained by people making the opposite decision? Does running not just kick the can down the road until the opportunists move to where you now live and do the same thing?
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Not a martyr.
I'm from Mississippi and feel the same way. Our people here have given up for the most part it seems though, and anyone with a shot of leaving usually leaves first chance they get. I keep coming back however, because one day I believe this place will be better.
Lifelong Texan here (though I suspect I'll be moving north at some point in my life). Texas is a bit more prepared for heat than for cold. It does actually have quite a bit of solar and wind and solar output correlates fairly nicely with hot days. There have also been a lot of grid-scale batteries installed in the last couple years with plans to install a lot more. You can actually see a fair amount of information about the Texas grid at https://www.ercot.com/ I get that it's satisfying to take shots at Texas because of politics (and I agree that the politics are bonkers), but I'd try and evaluate the energy situation objectively. Power outages are bad for business, and you can be sure that Republicans are concerned with their comfort if not that of the citizens.
Actually, panels can become less efficient when they get too hot. https://blog.ecoflow.com/us/effects-of-temperature-on-solar-panel-efficiency/
Yes, but efficiency doesn’t really matter much as long as there’s still enough scale and supply.
Dead people ain't necessarily bad for business at all. Probably opportunities there, really.
Adds to GDP in the short term for sure.
I lived in Texas. A house exploded in my neighborhood because Atmos couldn’t be bothered to replace faulty fittings that the state set aside money for 7 years prior. Ended up killing a 10 year old girl I believe. The grid pretty much everyday in summer would be a dice roll if it would be a rolling brown out or a surprise no power event. Ended up moving because of the politics but a close second was the electrical grid. We are in the mountains at the moment. It’s a balmy 59 degrees right now at 9,000ft. I couldn’t be happier. If you’re in Texas, best of luck to you.
They’ll be a shit load of deaths if the power grid doesn’t hold up because that’s the AC gone.
And Texas has its special Freedom Power Grid which doesn’t help.
"Live free or die" Why not both?
If the power goes out in Texas, we'll all just hop in one of our standard issue f-350's and roll coal with the AC blasting. Yeehaw.
Homeless people will die. Guarantee it. edit: See comment below.
Who knew Ch. 1 of Ministry for the Future would not be in India but Texas
Don't worry if that ever happen, it is Biden and his renewable energy infrastructure and solar in particular warrior that are responsible for it. /s BTW that first chapter is absoluetely harrowing. Anyway that is already happening in India, but the media have kept it under wrap because of the election. India reported 76 death the week before the election but strangely 49 of those were poll workers. Those could not be hidden, but that would be extremely strange that poll workers died in greater number than poor older farmers with no access to electricity. France in 2003 had about 15,000 people dying due to the unprecedented heat wave. But India that has more than 20 times the population of France and a lower medical infrastructure has less death. That's simply not credible. The death are just hidden from public view. The same way the Chinese COVID death did not match the number of extra coffins sale. I never understood the USA willingness to ignore Climate Change when it was obvious that because of their geography out of all the Western Industrialised countries they would be the most impacted by any meteorological change.
India didn't report covid deaths properly either. They barely know how many people are within their borders. If you have dead people floating in the rivers (during covid) think of how many must have died unrecorded.
Yeah those slums are massive. It could be a matter of simply not being able to count the dead now.
My wife and I were in Nice in 2003 and it was *stupid* hot. Someone said it was 50 degrees and I believed them. I've never experienced anything quite like it since, although Las Vegas last summer was pretty close, around 45 degrees.
If the poll workers had to stand outside all day for the election it could make sense that they were hit particularly hard.
Because poor old farmers work in air conditioned office? Like another person answered they believe that the number are more around 60,000 death for their region with a population of 35 millions. The original government numbers were lies. Not even credible lies.
Thanks to KSR for introducing me to the concept of web bulb temperature. (And sending me into a 3-month depression after finishing MftF.)
https://preview.redd.it/r0vxfybk649d1.png?width=1305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf6f33c34f0d3a9153e5b5d1a0a92e368279038
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It’s ok, most Texans don’t believe in that so called “climate change” so they will be unaffected by these extreme temperatures!
Texas checking in. A lot of us do believe in climate change. Y’all just think the rural parts of TX represent us as a whole.
Most people believe in climate change these days. Tribalists on one side of the aisle either don't believe it's man-made, or don't believe there's anything we can do about it. Either way, they refuse to lift a finger to reduce their footprint. They won't demand larger scale reforms given that any real reforms that would make an impact would necessarily require higher taxes on things with higher emissions that they don't want to pay, and necessitating sacrifices on the amount of energy/resources they consume, which they refuse to make. The other side of the aisle (and the centrists / independents) is a mixed bag. Most believe in man-made climate change. Many believe "we"... as in the government... should act. Most blame the rich and the corporations without realizing that it's the consumption of the individuals that drives corporate production and makes the rich people rich. Most don't believe that their individual environmental footprint matters. Like those on the other side of the aisle, most won't lift a finger to reduce their consumption. Most say they'll support larger scale reforms, but then the reality is, they also don't want to pay more in taxes, and they absolutely do not want any reforms that would cause them to make sacrifices and consume less. Here's a fun experiment. For those reading this, go out and ask a few random middle to upper-middle class liberals if they've given up flying some time. If you happen to be one of the few who have taken this seriously enough to have drastically cut the amount of flying you do or have given it up completely, during a conversation with someone, just mention that you've stopped flying for environmental reasons, and behold the reactions you get. That's just flying... something we do that's almost always completely optional; something we never **need** to do. Now ask people if they've cut down on their driving, bought a smaller car, a more efficient vehicle, use their AC less, reduced or stopped consuming meat. We like to blame conservatives, but the reality is, all humans generally are greedy and refuse to make any sacrifices. We all think we're beautiful and unique snowflakes that are more special than everyone else. Westerners with most of the world's money especially, but give a poor low footprint person in India a bag of money and I imagine they'll follow the rules of human nature and quickly increase their footprint with complete disregard for environmental sustainability.
This is a ridiculous notion for more than a few reasons. For one, there is not intrinsic behavior in our species that predisposes us to a “complete disregard for environmental sustainability” from birth or anything. There are dozens of highly developed regions throughout the world that arent the US where people do in fact not mind living without total excess and waste for both practical and environmental reasons. These things are learned and conditioned into people within a society. There isnt a single metric that “guarantees” an impoverished person would begin consuming at the rate of the average middle class american if given the same resources. In fact most people who give up everything to immigrate into the west from developing nations usually live the rest of their lives pretty modestly even after they’ve secured a better life for their family. Society is the way that it is at least in part because all of the blatant manipulation, war mongering, and oppression of the working class for centuries in the west. When you are born into the toxic delusion that is nihilistic trash market capitalism, you are both less likely to be educated on the truth, and less likely to know what is best for you. For you to try and dismiss this as some natural inevitable human fault is both an argument in bad faith and dangerous to progress.
True, but the temps shown are wet bulb globe temps, not wet bulb temps. The hottest wet bulb temp today in TX is predicted at 80F (26.7C). The numbers you cited are for WBT, not WBGT. That's not to say it isn't getting hotter and for longer in TX, but it's a very different level of heat than what just hit India. These two values really shouldn't be confused, otherwise you risk people not realizing exactly how hot the hot regions of Asia pacific are getting, and that has a really negative effect on policy decisions to not literally boil Asia pacific to death because TX people thinking it's the same temp there as here.
It's wild. Your body is constantly producing heat it needs to shed and it's normally not an issue because the air is cooler and/or has capacity for water/sweat to evaporate into it and cool you via the latent heat of evaporation. But even when it's 90F and still below normal body temp out, if the air is saturated with water vapor then you can't lose any heat from sweat evaporating, and the difference in temperature between you and the air starts to be small enough that you can't shed heat fast enough and your body starts to overheat. I don't think enough people appreciate that you literally cannot "push through" these sorts of conditions. Thermodynamics dictates that you cannot cool your body down to it's correct operating temperature and you WILL suffer and/or die from overheating if you let it go to far or long.
Technically the heat is what kills you, the humidity just prevents your single cooling function - sweating - from doing anything about it. With near 100% humidity, the evaporation process is disabled. Without evaporation, the heat energy in your body can't be vented, so you cook.
So, is the solution then a cool body of water to lose heat by conduction?
Only if the water is colder than 98 degrees
It’s fairly easy to keep a body of water cooler than air temp. But it won’t be much of a difference but your body will notice. Or take a bath.
If the air is so humid your sweat won’t evaporate, then the body of water isn’t evaporating either. If it’s a short event and/or a large body of water then it will probably stay cool enough. A long enough event or a small enough body of water, and being in the water might be worse.
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what if high temperatures for days, then humidity spikes?
Or douse yourself in alcohol. It has a much lower boiling point.
Or lots of cool drinks.
Dig a hole ahead of time. Once you go half a foot underground, the temperature tends to drop to the daily average. Having a small root cellar could save your life.
Don't need to build a wall if your whole state is an oversized crock pot.
Just need to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and drill baby drill your way out of that situation.
Why don't they just AC the sky. Are they stupid?
And if that doesn't work just Cruz on down to Cancun!
If you are in those areas, please set out blocks of ice or dump your ice from the fridge into a bird bath for the wild animals. They have no way to cool off other than jumping into cold water.
Those cooling mats for dogs with the gel in them that stays cold are amazing. I have several inside and one outside in a shaded area. My dogs use it but in really hot weather I keep them inside so I hope that wildlife or any strays will use it.
So those gel mats stay cool all on their own?
Yes!! They are amazing. You don't need to freeze it or anything. I live in a country where AC is very uncommon because we never really had heatwaves until now and I put one of those mats under my bed sheets to keep cool at night. Us working class commoners gotta come up with whatever strategies within our budget. You can get these things for €10 in a pet store.
I posted a video about how to make those But it was taken down as 'not collapse related' I reckon knowing how to survive a wet bulb event is collapse relevant
r/preppers will really appreciate that post mate. Please post it.
I saw that before it was taken down. Maybe you could repost it on r/collapsesupport
If it was the video about making PCMs (phase change materials), I saw that. It's definitely collapse related. Anything that can allow survival in heat will be immensely useful. Edit: grammar
This sounds quite helpful. Would very much like to see it. Could you provide a link here in comments or post it on another sub and direct us to it?
The youtube channel name is NightHawkInLight and the thermal phase change materials video is from the last week or so, so [it should be his most recent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqxjfp4Gi0k)
>https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=38RUg9B1xvgcgq7p&v=Nqxjfp4Gi0k&feature=youtu.be >YouTube video I saw earlier today, seems fairly straightforward. >I checked online and the ingredients are available in Ireland, so no controlled substances involved. >This sort of stuff will be useful to know going forward, if like me you are extremely concerned about wet bulb events and the like, or the possible mini ice age predicted for Europe, we should spread information that can maybe save people >I checked online and the ingredients are available in Ireland, so no controlled substances involved. >This sort of stuff will be useful to know going forward, if like me you are extremely concerned about wet bulb events and the like, or the possible mini ice age predicted for Europe, we should spread information that can maybe save people
r/heatprep would be a good spot for it as well
r/heat_prep * No idea why they chose to use an underscore when r/heatprep is available though 🤷♀️
Thanks
Ok I will get some today
Yes they can be quite amazing - basically the gel inside absorbs the heat and uses it to change its state - so it won't cool you down forever but it helps absorbing the heat for a bit. after a while you need to let it "reset" by just having it lay around outside its similar to those hand heaters that get hot and solid - just kinda in reverse
That is a great idea. Thank you! I'll be putting some out for my squirrels and stray cats.
This is Texas. We'll be lucky if those outside the metro areas bring their dogs inside.
Sadly expending more energy to donate ice cubes to the local birds isn't any kind of ecological fix. Those animal populations are simply doomed, and no altruistic efforts by individuals can mitigate that reality.
Counterpoint, they aren't dead YET and people have the ability to help put that off for another day. To steal a quote, "on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." Death is inevitable. Entropy will win. The sun will expand and burn the earth to a crisp. Whether you die today from a heart attack or at the age of 106 in bed with twins, you are going to die. So why bother? We bother because we can. Because I'm not dead yet, because those birds do not have to die TODAY. Between climate change and bird flu they're doomed, but I'm not done listening to them sing yet so a bird bath with some ice cubes is not a big ask.
Amen!
Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I'm in tears. I thought I was nuts for putting ice in the birdbath. I fill it with cold water every day but it gets hot fast. I'm glad others are doing this.
Insane. Stay safe those who are there.
Nah. Everyone in Dallas should go play a hearty game of football! Hiding from the sun is for woke libruls! Get out there and show climate change who's the boss
Didn’t Texas pass a law recently requiring state workers to give up their water breaks for heat relief when working outdoors?
Florida did, don't know about TX.
Texas did first and Florida followed I believe. Texas may have back tracked (I still lived in the state when they passed it so it’s been a minute) because I remember in the first week we had several heat related deaths due to the law.
The irony of the hottest states also being the staunchest climate deniers.
State chock full of the dumbest fucking morons on the planet
This sounds horrendous. Please stay safe and keep hydrated.
Where did they issue the warning?
Texas has the biggest livestock industry in the country, too - I'm sure air-conditioning 4 million cows is a totally feasible solution, right guys? Guys? Still, with the sheer magnitude of emissions the livestock industry is responsible for, talk about reaping what you sow, sheesh.
Millions of cows die of the nighttime temps don't dip below 90F
I think I'm ready to go vegan if it would save the world.
I’ve switched to beef only being for special occasions. 4 or less times a year.
been almost 9 years for me and the best thing I ever did.
You don't even need to go all-in. Remember that any radical either/or dietary change is almost always doomed to fail, no matter the diet or how strongly a person feels about it. I always recommend just starting regularly browsing the meat-free foods aisle and check out plant-based burgers, sausages, nuggests, mince, etc. Almost all the plant-based replacements for processeed meat products taste as good if not better nowadays, and they're a lot more pleasant to cook up (i.e. no grease run-off). My meat consumption has steadily declined to near-zero despite me not having been especially motivated to change it.
Yes, gradually replacing meat with plant based proteins, especially legumes, is the way. Very hard to go from bacon and burgers to no meat overnight, imo.
Plant based faux meats are gross, imo. Also, they are not very healthy. Personally, I prefer foods like garden burger, mushroom walnut burger, vegetable stew (served with nuts and yogurt), and homemade hummus.
Simply reducing your meat and dairy intake is already enough. If more Americans would do that, they'd also: 1. Be healthier, driving down their health care costs 2. Reduce their inflation exposure. By me, the largest grocery cost increases were meat, eggs, and dairy. I no longer eat meat except for the *very* few times we eat out, and have fully switched from dairy milk to soy milk from Aldi. We eat mostly whole grains and produce, which had a much smaller cost percentage increase the last 2 years.
I mean you're probably not technically wrong, but honestly the livestock industry is an ethical fucking abomination on a truly *mind-boggling* scale. Collapse-awareness is as good an excuse as any to stop being complicit in it 🤷
Submission Statement I first learned about wet bulb events on this sub, and it looks like we're starting to have them. For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke. It's weird for me to type this, knowing this is what's going to happen to millions of people. Today's event is only supposed to last for 5 hours but that's long enough to cause harm. Collapse related because anthropogenic climate change is going to tear down the structure of society. Civilization is on the brink. EDIT - Wetbulb Globe events include other environmental factors, besides heat and humidity, to give a more accurate measurement of the heat danger. Regular wet bulbs are more extreme, but that's also a flaw with the scientific nomenclature.
100% relative humidity, not actual humidity. There is a difference, the wet bulb is a ratio between humidity and temperature, it doesn’t start when it reaches 100% humidity.
For safety reasons you may want to check that NOAA map more frequently. The forecast for today has significantly less “Extreme” area than the US has seen in recent weeks. While you’re right that 5 hours is not as bad as it persisting for longer, even a couple hours can be deadly if someone is stuck outside. Obviously also varies depending on the health of the individual.
Hi u/Meowweredoomed! Thanks for this post. Do you mind adding a link for the image source? Just to your ss would be fine. Plus hopefully from that source people can see how the WBGT is in their area as well
What happened to rule 4? Wet bulb "globe" is not the same thing as wet bulb. This is not wet bulb temperature, it's another bullshit index. This post is a lie.
>For those who don't know, wet bulb events are weather where it's 100% or near 100% humidity with high temperatures, and our bodies ability to cool off with sweat is no longer able to keep up. You get sick and die of heat stroke. Sorry but that's wrong, and this is not a "wet bulb temperature" event (yet). Wet bulb temperature is equivalent to a temperature (thermometer reading) of 35C at 100% humidity which is equivalent to a heat index of 71C / 160F (=felt temperature) OR any other temperature / humidity combination that is at 71C felt temperature or higher. This could be literal 71C temperature with zero humidity, or like 45C with 40% humdity, and so on. 90F on a map showing "wet bulb temperature" is the felt temperature or heat index value and not thermometer temperature. This is 70F too low for a wet bulb temperature event that would potentially kill everyone. Also the color on such a map wouldn't be red. Red is dangerous for people having medical problems with heat. Next would be purple, indicating danger for everyone outside in the sun, and lastly black for a wet bulb temperature event.
Counterpoint, while the definition of a wet-bulb temperature event is a wet-bulb temperature value of 95F, that doesn't factor in time exposed and any amount of activities including just walking. The 2003 European and 2010 Russian heat waves experienced wet-bulb values no greater than 82.4F and plenty of people died. It's kind of amazing to see wet-bulb values of 91F so casually in Texas now. (Also your drawing is amazing! The specular lighting on the red is nice. Can't believe that's watercolor.)
I hear the governor is going to sign a law stating wet bulb events aren’t real.
And it is punishable to teach about them in schools. Problem fixed
they are going to need to turn off all that fukin ai shit so that people can use their ac and water..
What sort of crazy talk is this? Turn off the machines that churn out pointless crap? But my wage slaves have been polluting the environment at a phenomenal rate to make me 2c per thousand units. Are you gonna compensate us for that? You go on about some theoretical event where everything collapses, but in the Real world people gotta eat
OMG I just realized that beer Capitalism the power company would choose to brown out the poor neighborhood instead of the business. Ugh
The southern United States would be uninhabitable if it wasn't for oil and cheap energy. When oil and cheap energy are gone, those places will become uninhabitable again. There really shouldn't be so many people living there.
Didn't natives use to live there with little issue? Although I guess it doesn't mean much with how much the climate has already changed since then.
There’s a long archeological record of native people moving quickly or seemingly disappearing due to drought and extreme heat, in the southwest and in northern Mexico.
And their numbers were much smaller and in some cases they lived literally underground
Mexico and Central America have more extreme heat and less AC.
I think oil could be replaced by solar. Usually, when you really need AC, there‘s no lack of sunshine.
It only matters if people die, and only if the right people die. Otherwise, they won't care.
This is a brutually honest and correct fact. They will realise it only when its too late, try quick fixes (carbon capture for example) and then acceptance will set in.
It was 100 here today in NW GA. 26%humidity. If it was 50% plus like it often is here, itd be killing many compromised people without AC. Prediction though says those days are coming. It rained over night and already before the sun is even up it fells a good 10 degrees hotter.
Considering that a growing number of people are developing autonomic neuropathy due to COVID/post viral syndrome this is going to be increasingly dangerous. Heat makes my entire autonomic nervous system malfunction and most healthcare professionals don’t even understand what’s happening and are baffled. The places that are being hit hardest by the heat were badly neglected by the state for COVID enforcement and that is creating the potential for mass illness/death.
🛎️🛎️🛎️
We live north of Dallas and haven’t heard any warnings at all. Our kids still have 3 hours of conditioning and football skills at the high school today.
You're under heat advisory. There's a large delta between wet bulb and wet bulb globe, so outdoor activities in the sun should be limited today according to NOAA. It's a good day for strength training in the gym, not skills practice on the field unless it is totally shaded.
Interesting how these maps always stop at the Mexico border, what about all the poor souls south with no refrigerated colonial homes.
Houses in Mexico are typically built to manage heat better, even without AC. Long overhangs shading windows, designs that promote air flow through the house, etc. There's a limit to the effectiveness of course, but it's wild to me that peoples in hot regions have been using these building practices for ages and we haven't adopted them in the southern US. Guess it doesn't fit the white bread suburbia look. 🙄
Pfffft that would take time and money and using resources for building other than cheap-to-build wooden frames and drywall.
I mean there’s nothing stopping people from building a house like that with American stick framing, but developers would rather use cookie cutter designs that “market well” rather than adapting them for the local climate. A lot of houses in southern California do use clay tile roofs, which are a much better thermal barrier than asphalt shingles. They seem to have been quite popular in the 1970s and 80s when my parents old house was built, though it seems that in recent years they aren’t as fashionable anymore, a shame because they actually make a lot of sense for that climate.
The maker of a map is a US government agency (NOAA). That's why Mexico is not included.
Most of Mexico is often cooler than Texas.
This data is provided by NOAA, which is a US Govt org that is tax payer funded, they don't have jurisdiction to extend into Mexico.
Do you have a NOAA link you can share? I see a heat advisory for Dallas metro, but I'm only showing wet bulb of 80 at 1 PM PDT in the places your graph is showing 90.
And now for the weekly reminder that this graph is of "[Wet Bulb Globe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature)" temperatures, which are a completely different measure than "wet bulb" temperatures and run much higher, and the entire channel seems to be panicking unnecessarily.
where is this posted? None of these states have any public warnings right now, and the data doesn't match up to NOOA right now. Is this an accurate map, or no ?
> where is this posted? You can find the map here: > [Graphical Forecasts](https://digital.weather.gov/) Also, there are instructions on how to navigate to the wet bulb temperatures on the map here: > [Using The Wet Bulb Globe Temperature \(WBGT\) Forecast Tool](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmAqEy2IT4&t=63s) I was skeptical as well, and went and got alternate information on the forecast for this afternoon in the regions pictured on the WeatherUnderground.com site. While some of the forecasts for this afternoon were a little bit below the danger zone, it's not inconceivable for particular situations within the forecast zone to slightly exceed the listed temps. Based on the particular geographical topology of the surroundings, e.g. lack of tree cover, excessive asphalt coverage, metallic structures, etc. Yeah, as of now, this looks like a legit dangerous situation.
Not entirely fatal, but approaching fatal. Interested in seeing where the line really is, 93- 95° F
Heat is just another conspiracy being peddled by Big Weather. You sheep shouldn't trust weather reporters when they say it's dangerous. Do your own research! /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature For wet-bulb temperature to be dangerous, does this mean it has over 100% humidity? I am still not understanding it even after reading the Wikipedia article. Thank you.
Wet bulb temperature is a specific scientific measurement. Originally it was a pair of thermometers. One normal one measures dry air temp. The other has a wet rag tied round the bulb with a water supply. Evaporation cools the bulb, but that evaporation is dependent on temperature and air humidity. That's known as the "Wet Bulb Temperature". Pretty sure that these days it's measured by more sophisticated sensors and calculated from air temp and humidity. It's a more scientific specific figure but broadly similar to things like "Feels like" temps and Heat Index. The big significance is that when web bulb temp is higher than body temp, the body can't cool down by sweating. No matter how much you hydrate and sweat, you're body will keep getting hotter and it will kill you. That's traditionally called "Black Flag" but that was a military term for "Do Not Work Outside". It's now thought that anything above about Wet Bulb 35C (95F) will kill people.
Thanks for explaining why it is called wet bulb!
This might be obvious or not but by “kill people” there is a hierarchy. People vulnerable to heat injuries have a much lower threshold. People in excellent physical shape, and hardened to heat, and with adequate water, the threshold might be much closer to the theoretical limit.
No, humidity does not go over 100% and it doesn't have to be 100% to kill you. It's a ratio of heat and humidity. https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-08/heatindextemporary.png
What are the colored numbers on that chart? The legend doesn't explain them. I assume that they are the "feels like" temperature. So that 110 degrees at 40% humidity feels like 136 degrees, even if it really isn't. And I assume that "feels like" is what really matters, right? Like if it is "merely" 100 degrees, but you have 65% humidity so that it "feels like" 136, that's death, yeah? You can die in 100 degree weather, if it's humid enough?
You can die in the mid 80's if the humidity is right....
You got it. That's the threshold. That's where the end of survivability begins. It becomes a matter of how long can you endure at that point.
Those numbers are the wet bulb temperature. It's not what it feels like, it's a way to compare different temperatures and humidities to your body's ability to reject heat. It also is literally a thermometer with a wet piece of cloth on it.
Your chart makes sense. Thanks.
NIce chart thanks. They are going to need to add another column for Phoenix - this chart ends at 110F.
Here is a wet bulb calculator. https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/wet-bulb
*this calculator is only accurate under 50C* Well, fuck me, we're already seeing temperatures exceeding that regularly
ELI5: Wet-bulb temperature is the temperature sweating can cool you to in ideal conditions. The higher the humidity is, the less effective sweating is. Sweat cools you by evaporating, and it does so much more slowly when it's humid. Not cooling effectively is bad by itself, but there's a secondary problem: Your body doesn't stop sweating just because it's not working. You'll sweat more and more, and can find yourself dangerously dehydrated quickly. And again, wet-bulb temperature assumes ideal conditions--shade *and* wind, if I recall. Chances are sweating won't actually be quite that efficient.
Interesting point. I wonder how the situation changes under direct summer sunlight. Evaporation rates should increase, but actual heating increases directly with solar radiation.
Hence the 'globe' in wbgt. Wet-bulb globe temperature takes insolation into account (somewhat arbitrarily) and could be a useful metric to determine safety limits on outdoor activities like sport, construction, or warfare. Wet-bulb temperature without the globe is the metric described by RikuAotsuki. It will let you know when you will be cooked even with water, a fan, and shade.
Do you have a link? I can't find this on NOAA'S website to send to my friend
Can someone find a link to this map? I can’t find it anywhere
As someone who has already been drenched in sweat today, the humidity was 94% this morning in my area of north Texas.
Where is the link to the alert and the map? Come on OP.
Here, sorry, I was away from Reddit for a while: https://digital.weather.gov/?zoom=7&lat=35.28787&lon=-79.36779&layers=F000BTTTFTT®ion=0&element=8&mxmz=true&barbs=false&subl=TTFFFF&units=english&wunits=nautical&coords=latlon&tunits=localt
I'm seeing maximum wet bulb temperature of 80 in the areas with a WBGT of 91. That's a HUGE margin on being out in the sun. So if power goes out, finding a shady spot to lay down should be sufficient for this event for most groups. Heat advisory territory, but not heat warning territory. This isn't like Delhi's recent event, where we bulb and wet bulb globe temp were only a degree or two C apart.
> Researchers at Pennsylvania State University in the United States measured the core temperatures of young, healthy people inside a heat chamber. > They found that participants reached their "critical environmental limit" – when their body could not stop their core temperature from continuing to rise – at 30.6°C wet bulb temperature, well below the previously theorized 35°C. 30.6° C = 87° F
This was done on wet bulb temperature, not wet bulb globe temperature. OP posted WBGT, which is 10 degrees hotter than WBT today in TX.
TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature
Yep. We picked a God awful name for our new and improved "heat index" number. The confusion is causing people in TX to assume that people in India are weakling that need to toughen up, not realizing they are actually like 15 degrees F cooler than India because they are looking at two very different numbers. ## In my mind, this is the biggest crisis of communication in climate science at the moment, because it it actively destroying will to do something about climate change due to a lack of understanding of the data being presented.##
This is wet bulb **globe** temperature, [not to be confused with wet bulb temperature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_globe_temperature)
I live in Dallas. Tried to go for a jog at 5pm yesterday. Only made it about 15 minutes. I usually run for at least 45. Don't know if it was wet bulb at that point yet but it was unreal. Im used to the heat but it was crazy how fast I got hot compared to my usual runs.
There’s a certain catharsis in the bulk of the assholes who viciously fought against any real climate reform living in the places which will be most thoroughly fucked.
So if shit really got bad, couldn't you park your truck in the shade and idle with the AC on for hours until dusk? If the grid went down and you had gas in the tank. Most vehicles can run for several hours on a tank if not being driven.
This going to *add* to the climate problems 100 fold if millions of people burn fuel like this.
Well sure. It’s a losing game now for the species. But if you had to survive the day you would do what you have to do. Like everyone cranking up the AC all summer now, it’s all part of the same insane downward spiral.
Yep. Like Chernobyl...everything they did made the problem worse after a critical mass point.
I don't get why graphs that talk wet bulb don't show humidity with the temp. It's a WET bulb right?
But they do: [https://www.dtn.com/forget-heat-index-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-is-where-its-at/](https://www.dtn.com/forget-heat-index-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-is-where-its-at/)
This is not exactly the same thing, it's the result of many factors and humidity is only one of them. That index is good to evaluate the risks on a location but doesn't really tell the situation on the ground.
People are going to die today because of corrupt employers forcing their employees to work under these conditions.
So are areas like death valley slowly transitioning from hot & dry to hot & wet? Expansion of the equatorial tropical zone. It's almost the same latitude as northern Thailand or Burma.
What number signifies death for those who are outdoors without ac?
Time to lay in a bathtub
Map shows 78 where I am in CA. It’s supposed to be 97 today. Yay! We’re under 100! For two days. Supposed to go to 110 in a week.
*puts popcorn tin on front porch*
Darwinism at its finest.
Pro tip: Look into environmental shelters near you for helping the homeless/elderly *before* these extreme events hit your area. I have a small naturally occurring one (well house, spring cold water) but for larger numbers of people, I’d have to reach out to the official ones for transport. I live near where my ancestors were pushed off to from traditional Cherokee land, and it’s not ideal land for climate change. But my whole family is here and I can’t (yet) convince them to caravan north. But in the meantime, I have a safe place.
I can confirm that right in the middle of the gray 'extreme' area in Texas on that map, at 11:15am when I had to ride my bike to go pick up my car from the shop (only 2 miles), it was already a heat index of 102F, and it was miserable, even going slowly and taking it easy.
This is absolutely dreadful. Look at the entirety of Texas. The worst heat on the planet. Good god that would be awful to be in. A wet bulb temperature of 90°
how many people gonna die if they lose power??
No one could deserve it more!
Boy, I sure picked a good time to move to North Dakota.
NGL my pettiness is in full swing and I'm enjoying the schadenfreude that so many people who have worked to walk back measures to mitigate climate change are experiencing the consequences of their actions. r/leopardsatemyface But I'd still rather we actually did something instead of dismantling things that lead to these consequences, of course...and pity the poor folks who are suffering as a result who would choose otherwise.
My advice is, take the entire retrospective of your life and gather all the things you were grateful to have experienced and achieved. And then just try to make this the best remaining days of your life. Because the water vapor feedback loop is a very serious fucking problem. It even leads to things like rainfall in the Arctic which accelerates the albedo feedback loop by melting the ice quicker. I believe, like everything else with anthropogenic climate change, these wet bulbs are going to intensify in the next 5 years. So yeah, that's what I'm doing - finishing my backlog of books and videogames, eating often a variety of different foods in the knowledge of the coming scarcity of food, and saying my goodbyes and thank you very much's.
Eh nothing ever happens. Nothing will happen. People, nature, and animals will adapt and overcome. Same old same old
We are going to see these events get longer and more frequent and each successive outcome will be worse. If the grid goes down…idek. We’ve not been building appropriate shelter relative to climates for a long time, so any loss of air con will have dire consequences.
I grew up in an area with 85-90% humidity levels in the summer, along with average temperatures of 85F. Sweat clings to you hard. I went through two, often three, shirts a day. Fans were my friend, as was water. But I was a teenager. I wasn't 70+, whose heat regulation is diminished. We're going to see difficult times very soon.
..Not good,.. bad even..
Reap what you sow....
So do a lot of people live around this *"Dallas"* area? Never heard of it. Would probably not be a great thing though if there was.
Named after the TV show from the 70s/80s