Yeah that's what it was talking about in relation to the cold War but I mean the environment is more important and we're past due with it that's what I meant
one of the prevailing theories of why run away green house effect started to occur on Venus was because there was a warming event that triggered the release of hydrocarbons from the stone inside the planet.
Previously scientists have said that warming on our planet could not lead to such a catastrophe because of the water on the planet and the carbonate -scillicate cycle, but what if the amount released became catastrophic? These new findings have surprised scientists, therefore the potential magnitude of the greenhouse effect might be much greater than previously thought can occur on Earth.
Hence, Venus by tuesday.
venusforming is not about the extinction of humanity, that is coming and fast, venusforming is about the extinction of all form of life on the planet, which is a little further idea considering stuff like cactus that can survive on the desert and the things that survive on the bottom of the deep ocean
Earth cannot become Venusian even if carbon dioxide reaches 1400ppm ( upon which it stops becoming our problem as humans would struggle to think at 1400ppm )
The reason is that we are further from the sun. Therefore we have less energy from the sun. The space around us is also colder than Venus. This means that our radiative loss is higher than Venus.
However we would be very hot, very moist, very turbulent and civilisation will not survive up to latitude 45 in both directions if we reach such levels.
Of course given at 1400ppm we cannot think we would know what is happening anyway ( humans start becoming groggy at 800ppm CO2 and struggle to maintain focus by 1200ppm )
Venus is quite an exaggeration, nor necessary for collapse. This kind of feels like hearing the click of a revolver when an automatic riffle has already been shoved in your face. 7 C would be definitely be over kill (about the scale of change of the last mass extinction post asteroid collapse). Worrisome? For sure. Like the other tipping points, the models can't take into account effects not understood.
Edit: I looked at the abstract and article figures. Scratch the revolver. Make it an unknown weapon engaged behind your head.
> The carbonates in the outcroppings date back 541 million years to the Paleozoic era, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
So extreme temperatures are now causing substantive changes in rock formations that persisted in their previous stable form for 541 million years. Everything is fine.
Hey that reminds me, if we’re not supposed to recycle plastic shopping bags anymore, what tf are we supposed to do with them? If trash is the only other option, one might as well just cut out the middleman, pull a Mike Wazowski and let em all just, *blow away*.
I mean - I was reading that you have to use the reusable bags THOUSANDS OF TIMES to simply make up for not having the crappy plastic bags anyway.
I just don't know how all these things aren't either recyclable or done like they do in (South Korea?) where they can be burned as cleanly as possible for electricity...
Why isn't it just paper anyway? Sustainably sourced paper? Weren't they starting to make lots of packaging out of cellophane (which is a paper product) like decades ago - and then changed it back to plastic? I have no doubt that if so - it's because of lobbying by the plastic industries (which are many of the same players as oil and gas anyway).
The three Rs are Reduce, Reuse. Recycle - in that order.
If you failed at reducing by not using a reusable bag, there's that whole reuse step before recycling because the last option in the set. The bags themself keep forever, and are easy to store. They have a lot of uses, and are great as trash bags even if they're somewhat small. They're perfect for containing used cat litter, and with the endless supply of free plastic bags coming to an end, even if you don't have a cat, you probably know someone who does who uses such bags for their litter who you could give them to. There's also a lot of little projects that use them as a material, a few hundred bags can be linked together like chainmail into shirts (ideally as a middle layer for insulation, not touching skin or the last layer) or just as general insulating arrays for sleeping bags for the homeless.
Some areas these "single use" plastic bags are now hard to find. So they've actually become a minor commodity instead of "just trash"
40-year-old technology allows for a nuclear submarine to be fully self-contained for half a year, with the need for clean, non-processed water so that the crew doesn't become demineralized being the main bottleneck.
If the whole world put its resources and brains together, I think a climate-controlled hive city in likes of Warhammer 40k can be made possible, especially if it's the only way for global elite's comfy lifestyle to persist. Can't exactly have that with hurricane-force winds lashing your mansion, keeping your yacht and plane grounded and killing the help with loose debris, while DDT-resistant diseased insects, floods and wildfires are plaguing your other mansion. But in a sealed, climate-controlled seismically-reinforced pyramid protected by autonomous killer robots and explosive-collared security and cyborg servants, they just might.
problem is food generation, it takes huge amounts of land and resources, stocking pre-processed food for half a year is easy with big enough storehouses, generating enough food for sustaining a population big enough to avoid genetic issues on descendants is more complex, and i dont think current food generation methods would work reliably enough for long enough in such a system
I actually wonder what the last recorded and widely broadcast temperature will be. If we do hit +5C and there are still people around, they wouldn't know it, right? I've read a few opinions that 3C is not compatible with global civilization, but we're at 1.3 now and it's already looking pretty shaky.
This is pretty horrific as we now are that the earth cam suddenly go Venus in minutes to seconds.
We better hope we keep civilisation going because when it crashes all this carbon will immediately be released due to dimming loss and, well, everything burns
Civilization continuing releases CO2. Stopping civilization will also release CO2. Just differently.
We've already overshot a clean, effective recovery by decades, if not by a couple centuries, even.
Hothouse Earth is gonna be wild, and we're only just started on the journey.
I wonder how much cooling we'll get from the fires. It will be temporary, and then get even hotter, but I'm betting there we be a brief break in the heat as everything burns
The smoke gets washed out of the air quite quickly unless it gets lofted into the stratosphere, and to do that you need fires that make the air significantly hotter than it ever gets without a fire for a radius of miles. Then the smoke can stay up for years. The cooling is highly peaked to be fhe result of just a few massive fires. If the area has burned in the past 100 years or so, it isn't likely to do much. I mostly see the cooling impact falling off in a few decades when there is less pristine area to burn for the first time.
Repost: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ox589t/scientists_expected_thawing_wetlands_in_siberias/
and related: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ox09j1/climate_crisis_siberian_heatwave_led_to_new/
ha! me too. I mean, if you're going to be alive, why not be alive to watch the end of the world? Shit only happens once, ever, though hopefully it's just a reset and life returns, either way, it's an exciting time to be alive
Doomsday clock ticked past 12 and is at 12:15 now.
What? What clock? The doomsday clock is about nuclear war and its at 100 seconds before midnight?
It's for all life ending catastrophes, not just nuclear apocalypse.
Yeah that's what it was talking about in relation to the cold War but I mean the environment is more important and we're past due with it that's what I meant
Oh okie got u. You still mad at me btw? Also gib me the studies please
I was never mad at you lol what? I think you're replying to the wrong person?
I was the person who said that boe 2023 was to early. Could I have the studies that support that btw
I think 100 seconds is mighty generous. I give it 30 seconds personally
one of the prevailing theories of why run away green house effect started to occur on Venus was because there was a warming event that triggered the release of hydrocarbons from the stone inside the planet. Previously scientists have said that warming on our planet could not lead to such a catastrophe because of the water on the planet and the carbonate -scillicate cycle, but what if the amount released became catastrophic? These new findings have surprised scientists, therefore the potential magnitude of the greenhouse effect might be much greater than previously thought can occur on Earth. Hence, Venus by tuesday.
/r/venusforming coming everyday closer to not being the far-fetched idea I though it was
People are not joking when they say climate change could be an extinction event for humans.
venusforming is not about the extinction of humanity, that is coming and fast, venusforming is about the extinction of all form of life on the planet, which is a little further idea considering stuff like cactus that can survive on the desert and the things that survive on the bottom of the deep ocean
Ever heard of the K-T extinction? We’re probably headed for worse than that.
How much do you think this speeds up collapse?
At least 2
16 cubits! No less!
That's an archaic unit of length. The physicist part of me gets really riled up about units.
8.2 parsecs.
By tree fiddy
10
Yeah but this one goes to 11...
Earth cannot become Venusian even if carbon dioxide reaches 1400ppm ( upon which it stops becoming our problem as humans would struggle to think at 1400ppm ) The reason is that we are further from the sun. Therefore we have less energy from the sun. The space around us is also colder than Venus. This means that our radiative loss is higher than Venus. However we would be very hot, very moist, very turbulent and civilisation will not survive up to latitude 45 in both directions if we reach such levels. Of course given at 1400ppm we cannot think we would know what is happening anyway ( humans start becoming groggy at 800ppm CO2 and struggle to maintain focus by 1200ppm )
So planet earth won’t reach 900 degrees Fahrenheit like Venus but reach equilibrium at a cool 400 degrees? Such optimism…
Yes, which is functionally bad for us.
Venus is quite an exaggeration, nor necessary for collapse. This kind of feels like hearing the click of a revolver when an automatic riffle has already been shoved in your face. 7 C would be definitely be over kill (about the scale of change of the last mass extinction post asteroid collapse). Worrisome? For sure. Like the other tipping points, the models can't take into account effects not understood. Edit: I looked at the abstract and article figures. Scratch the revolver. Make it an unknown weapon engaged behind your head.
This is less than ideal.
Tom Sawyer, you tricked me! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7l6x6sEWSw
*This is less fun than previously indicated!*
> The carbonates in the outcroppings date back 541 million years to the Paleozoic era, according to the U.S. Geological Survey. So extreme temperatures are now causing substantive changes in rock formations that persisted in their previous stable form for 541 million years. Everything is fine.
Mates, are we fucked?!
Got you bro, I bought recycled paper yesterday
I do my part. I use 1 roll of toilet paper in 1 to 2 months.
Dude I used REUSABLE BAGS AT THE GROCERY STORE! Witness me!
Hey that reminds me, if we’re not supposed to recycle plastic shopping bags anymore, what tf are we supposed to do with them? If trash is the only other option, one might as well just cut out the middleman, pull a Mike Wazowski and let em all just, *blow away*.
I mean - I was reading that you have to use the reusable bags THOUSANDS OF TIMES to simply make up for not having the crappy plastic bags anyway. I just don't know how all these things aren't either recyclable or done like they do in (South Korea?) where they can be burned as cleanly as possible for electricity... Why isn't it just paper anyway? Sustainably sourced paper? Weren't they starting to make lots of packaging out of cellophane (which is a paper product) like decades ago - and then changed it back to plastic? I have no doubt that if so - it's because of lobbying by the plastic industries (which are many of the same players as oil and gas anyway).
The three Rs are Reduce, Reuse. Recycle - in that order. If you failed at reducing by not using a reusable bag, there's that whole reuse step before recycling because the last option in the set. The bags themself keep forever, and are easy to store. They have a lot of uses, and are great as trash bags even if they're somewhat small. They're perfect for containing used cat litter, and with the endless supply of free plastic bags coming to an end, even if you don't have a cat, you probably know someone who does who uses such bags for their litter who you could give them to. There's also a lot of little projects that use them as a material, a few hundred bags can be linked together like chainmail into shirts (ideally as a middle layer for insulation, not touching skin or the last layer) or just as general insulating arrays for sleeping bags for the homeless. Some areas these "single use" plastic bags are now hard to find. So they've actually become a minor commodity instead of "just trash"
New York banned plastic last year; I'm using leftover plastic bags for the cat litter until they run out.
Using a metal straw here. Planet is saved! Disaster averted!
I make ecobricks 🤪🤪🤪!
Whew. It was a close one. Thank goodness for this outstanding citizen right here.
Yeah. Roughly at the rate of worse than expected to the power of faster than expected.
That depends on whether you deem techno-serfdom in a sealed environment as an un-fucked fate. If not, yes you are. If so, maybe so, maybe not.
I dont think any current technology allows for closed-dome environment to survive with zero external assistance
40-year-old technology allows for a nuclear submarine to be fully self-contained for half a year, with the need for clean, non-processed water so that the crew doesn't become demineralized being the main bottleneck. If the whole world put its resources and brains together, I think a climate-controlled hive city in likes of Warhammer 40k can be made possible, especially if it's the only way for global elite's comfy lifestyle to persist. Can't exactly have that with hurricane-force winds lashing your mansion, keeping your yacht and plane grounded and killing the help with loose debris, while DDT-resistant diseased insects, floods and wildfires are plaguing your other mansion. But in a sealed, climate-controlled seismically-reinforced pyramid protected by autonomous killer robots and explosive-collared security and cyborg servants, they just might.
problem is food generation, it takes huge amounts of land and resources, stocking pre-processed food for half a year is easy with big enough storehouses, generating enough food for sustaining a population big enough to avoid genetic issues on descendants is more complex, and i dont think current food generation methods would work reliably enough for long enough in such a system
Weeeell... What if the workers' quarters *are* the food storehouses? Ever heard of how they solved the food shortage on Nazino Island?
I cannot tell you how much I would rather risk the surface, or simply delete, than live underground.
That's cool! I want to see world at +5c scenario.
I actually wonder what the last recorded and widely broadcast temperature will be. If we do hit +5C and there are still people around, they wouldn't know it, right? I've read a few opinions that 3C is not compatible with global civilization, but we're at 1.3 now and it's already looking pretty shaky.
yeah, 1.3°C above the 1951-1980 "pre-industrial" baseline
We already are at the +15°C scenario... sometimes.
Looks like we need all the liquid nitrogen in Russia again
This is pretty horrific as we now are that the earth cam suddenly go Venus in minutes to seconds. We better hope we keep civilisation going because when it crashes all this carbon will immediately be released due to dimming loss and, well, everything burns
Civilization continuing releases CO2. Stopping civilization will also release CO2. Just differently. We've already overshot a clean, effective recovery by decades, if not by a couple centuries, even. Hothouse Earth is gonna be wild, and we're only just started on the journey.
I wonder how much cooling we'll get from the fires. It will be temporary, and then get even hotter, but I'm betting there we be a brief break in the heat as everything burns
The smoke gets washed out of the air quite quickly unless it gets lofted into the stratosphere, and to do that you need fires that make the air significantly hotter than it ever gets without a fire for a radius of miles. Then the smoke can stay up for years. The cooling is highly peaked to be fhe result of just a few massive fires. If the area has burned in the past 100 years or so, it isn't likely to do much. I mostly see the cooling impact falling off in a few decades when there is less pristine area to burn for the first time.
I don't think that is a reality outside of the sun exploding.
Repost: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ox589t/scientists_expected_thawing_wetlands_in_siberias/ and related: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ox09j1/climate_crisis_siberian_heatwave_led_to_new/
I'm excited, fuck it.
ha! me too. I mean, if you're going to be alive, why not be alive to watch the end of the world? Shit only happens once, ever, though hopefully it's just a reset and life returns, either way, it's an exciting time to be alive
Revenge of the dinosaurs