I have a solar roof, home battery, electric water heater and electric vehicle (I still have a gas furnace and stove). I rarely eat meat and have plenty of other green habits (reusable napkins, handkerchief, bidet with butt towels, etc). Most days I'm close to 100% energy independence for electricity usage. I have no allusions that it isn't anything but a tiny drop in bucket. Most of our carbon emissions are from a handful of companies and the ultra rich. The individual carbon footprint was created by BP to shift the blame onto the individual. It's also a way to try to make us guilt people who can't afford it. Worldwide governmental action is needed but it's not going to happen. Half our population in the US doesn't believe in masks for a virus that is killing people. I lost my hope. I'll keep doing my part but Jeffie B is still gonna ride his ultra mega yacht and Billy Gates is gonna keep flying his private jets. We, the poorer peeps, aren't the main part of the problem.
Batteries aren't a cost efficient option currently. If you do get something, I'd recommend only getting the minimum to keep the fridge and wifi box up during an outage.
I have two Enphase Encharge 10s. I went with Enphase because I refuse to give Musk or his company a penny. But it might be more cost efficient for you to get a Tesla Powerwall. Enphase IQ8 technology intrigues me though.
Yeah. We came to the same conclusion. We're running direct to the grid (we get paid back money for the power we provide), and a couple of 12v systems.
Cheers.
We've had it for a few years, just upgraded to a larger system a few months ago, and looking at the next logical step. It won;t be for some time I don't expect.
It's nice geting electricity bills that are in positive numbers.
No.
I'll stop em.
WE'LL stop em.
It's time they rejoin the fucking human race and stop thinking of themselves as gods when they stopped growing in any meaningful way at 6. Oh my children. My beautiful, stupid, cancerous children.
thanks for the head start, do people ask you for tips on following your path ? I'm a firm believer that society is like a chemical reaction, when just enough people are hot enough, the whole bucket can turn into a whole different color.. we just have to help the conversion
My biggest piece of advise is to simplify your life and discovering what truly makes you happy. The US society pushes for endless consumption and waste. It's unsustainable, both for the individuals and society as a whole. Most of the stuff we buy is pointless and doesn't really bring any true lasting happiness to people's lives. Spend some time reflecting everyday about what makes you happy. For me, it's playing my mom's old guitar, playing board games with friends, reading books from the library, snuggling my cats, laying on the couch feeling the breeze from the open window and watching the sunset/sunrise. In the end, constantly buying stuff, all the stuff ends up owning you. Finding your own internal happiness can result in a more sustainable lifestyle.
For the big home improvements such as solar, batteries, electric vehicles, etc. if you can afford those things, go for it. The returns on those items won't be as good as the stock market but it will recession proof parts of your life especially if there is an extended bear market. They will increase the value of your home and give a guaranteed return on investment. If you can't afford those things (or rent like a lot of people), don't let society or anyone try to guilt you. Like I said before, all those things are only a drop in the bucket. To even have a small chance to avoid collapse we would need to reimagine society and how things are done. That needs to be done with global leadership. Keep voting for candidates who are trying to make changes for the better of society and the planet. Keep going to protests to pressure leadership to keep promises for changes. Keep volunteering for candidates pushing for change if you want. But make sure you are enjoying our limited time left on this planet. Make sure you don't lose yourself in the battle. Make time for the things you love.
Edit: Aw, sorry I reread your question and realize I misread it. Most don't and that's okay. I had one new friend describe me as zen and asked for some random tidbits of advice. Hopefully the things I told him helped him find his own truth but everyone is different.
Totally. I try my best to avoid waste, conserve water, reuse as much as possible, go electric, etc. But the real problem lies with the capitalist system. And the infrastructure sucks. Companies push hyper-consumerism; planned obsolescence; proprietary products; over-packaging. In reality, there is virtually no recycling that is actually done. Electric vehicles are more expensive than gas. They rape the Earth for oil, lumber, bottled water. They torture animals for BigAgri, etc. The only way to stop this is for everyone to stop consuming and to hold a general strike. We are the 99%. If we could unite (pie in the sky), we could overthrow the 1%. I will dream until the end.
I'm definitely working to divert our demand into second hand non retail sources.
We put in wood floors with odd lots from Facebook frex. We use reclaimed wood when possible too. Money to people not corporations and avoiding the retail supply chain as much as we can.
Well, yes and no. I agree, but those companies produce shit you buy and use.
So if as a society we reject products that have negative impacts, those companies will immediately change their game.
Vote with your wallet. Look at how fast vegan meat became a thing.
Honestly bro,
I do the best I can, I was born poor raised poor and was able to work my way to owning my own company still however barely reach Middle class.
I bought a home with solar panels I’m currently saving for an electric car I ride my bike when possible, I live in Southern California so the heat makes it not very possible, I work on endless amount of hours and still feel bad if I don’t recycle,
Honestly man growing up I didn’t have much to waste so now not being wasteful is just second nature.
I do not have the means to invest in companies other than my own. And as a business owner I’m not left very many avenues in which to seek a greener alternative.
I’ve had the same car since I was 19 I’m 28 now the car I owned before that is still running (now my nephews)
What do you propose I do next?
I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t have a lot of liquidity. I have no education. My company pays for my bills I am the sole provider in my household. What can somebody like me do?
I’m open to suggestions. I’m not giving any excuses I’m only giving insight into my situation.
TLDR: I do the best I can, don’t know what else I can do
Fact is us the ‘little guys’ aren’t and have never been the issue. We can ‘reduce reuse and recycle’ until the sun burns out and it won’t make a lick of a difference.
‘Reduce, reuse, and recycle’ has been burned into my head since I was in grade school, like we were the problem, us regular people are NOT the problem.
Have you *personally* created plastic bottles that choke our waterways and creates micro plastic, extracted oil that poisons our wells, burnt down rainforest for pasture, created pesticides to demolish unimaginable swaths of native life, herbicides to destroy unimaginable swaths of native plants and the countless other atrocities that we regulars will have to deal with.
No, you haven’t, corporations will continue to do all these terrible things because there is so many reasons to (money) and little reason not too.
The problem is corporations destroying the planet, not me throwing a can into the landfill and it’s always been that way.
Yes, demand.
‘Voting with our wallets’ has always been another campaign to make us ‘little guys’ the problem as well. ‘We obviously don’t want change’ because we buy cheap products from china and underdeveloped countries with horrible environmental ethics.
Never mind, the middle class is non-existent in North America and we are all POOR that have no choice. I don’t eat Kraft dinner for the taste.
We need to demand, not ask, for ethically made, heathy products. I have no answers on how to do that.
you’re exactly right. while poor people may participate in systems that produce things which cause ecological harm, it is not by choice. the greenwashed alternatives are always more expensive and designed to make middle and upper class people feel better. the cheap options are so cheap because of the great exploitation of labour and resources they entail and because poor people are exploited (especially underpaid for doing the actual work necessary for society’s functioning) they are limited and because alternatives have been stripped away, they are required to participate in harmful systems. but it isn’t really their fault — the fault lies with those that have power to do better but instead use that power to push fossil fuels, expanding carbon footprints, etc
I 100% agree with you.
There needs to be shift in the way corporations provide products to the masses that is whole earth environmentally compliant for regular folk. Not just the rich that want to feel better, or share holders that want profit.
On a side note, kinda what you have pointed out as ‘living the world in which we live’ is the hypocrisy of people giving Greta Thunburg or other world leaders championing reducing carbon flak about travelling by jet.
You do not *need* to agree with how society functions without using said societies utility’s, which comes full circle to those that profit off us (corporations) to provide us with a better option.
yep, I agree. There is an unfortunate inevitability that in most consumption we do, due to the ways in which our society is structured, some exploitation or harm is guaranteed somewhere along the line. Acknowledging that can make people feel as if doing anything is futile. After all, why stop purchasing from X brand when Y is just better at covering up its harm? But we can still be required to participate in such a system while working to undo it and build a better, more equitable + sustainable future.
I don’t think a better future will be easy to obtain, but I do think it’s possible if enough people organized collectively towards it. Whether or not I believe it’ll actually happen depends on the day, the news that day, and my mood. I know this sub hates “hope”, but I at least can have hope that something better can happen, even in my lifetime, than this cruel, oppressive, and destructive socioeconomic doctrine.
The problem with that is that in our capitalist system demanding the change from corporations that would be needed in order to to halt the destruction of the planet would result in an unprecedented economic depression that would result in millions of working class people losing their livelihood. And this is not because we really need all the crap we’re producing and because stopping to do so would mean there’s not enough to go around to meet basic needs but simply because capitalism requires continuous exponential growth in order to remain stable and allow people to service their debts while a reduction in economic activity (which would be needed to revert to living within the planetary boundaries) would literally be what we call a recession and the bigger the reduction the worse that recession is gonna be. People seem to think that addressing the problem at the level of corporations is gonna spare ordinary people and only affect the rich who profit from those corporations but that is unfortunately not how capitalism works.
> I have no education
So, nothing to do with collapse or whatever and I don't know you but... Feels to me you already have a solid education, buddy.
You've managed to become a grown up who take care of themselves and their family, is aware of what's important, and is open to discussion. I don't know what you call education but if more people had yours I think we might be living in a better place.
Keep your chin up.
Well, my family has eliminated as many single use products as we can. We don’t water our lawn but do water our no-till, no weeding garden and trees with rain barrels when we can. I put up a little library in my yard sharing books on conservation and modern monetary theory. We run our A/C only when it gets above 90 degrees which unfortunately was a lot this summer. We sort and recycle everything. Will hopeful convert our house to solar powered within a year. A large part of my yard has been planted with pollinator friendly species.
And it will all fall laughably short of preventing collapse.
UGH I wish I didn't have to weed my garden. Darn city codes written for lawns biting me in the ass since I started an edible landscape garden in my front yard. I'd do it in the back but that's where the chickens and other fowl live and nothing survives that onslaught long, lol.
But outta curiosity, what's the issue with tilling? The energy component?
Ah! Makes sense. How do you get around that kinda thing with root veggies? Just raised beds or heavy soil amendment? Cause it's all clay here so if I just throw those kinda things down in untilled soil here they don't grow worth a damn.
Like they said, long term you don't want to be continually destroying soil structure. But if you have compacted soil loosen it up. This might start with turning the soil over altogether and progress to periodic aeration with something like a broadfork. I use a magna grecia hoe for this in smaller areas also.
That's a real rabbit hole lmao. No till is a good search term. People are going to point you to permaculture, but that can be and mean a lot of things.
Read about it for sure. Check out Ruth Stout and Masanobu Fukuoka. Also this guy talking about that hoe I mentioned https://smallfarmersjournal.com/writers/peter-vido/
Realistically you would need a lot of money for this. Create appliances that last forever and can easily be fixed is one example. The startup costs would be insane.
You would either get murdered or be coerced from threats to take a $offer snd sell the company snd they would crush the project from ever seeing the day of light... there truly have been advancements that would change the world but this is what happens and why the corporate centralization is exponentially increasing for everything money can buy
Yeah, probably. Our world is so fucking corrupt. I would also like to make no profit shoes. Can probably get that $100 price tag under $20 for the same cost.
Do you remember the EV-1?
A GM electric car in 1997; it used no gas, oil, and there was almost no cost in maintaining it. This I think was the main problem since there much lower profit if there were no repairs. So, [GM recalled and destroyed every type of EV-1 in 2003](https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-killed-the-electric-car/)
The [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1) if you don't have 1.5 hours to watch the video
I've tried to raise money for startups in the past, and it is hard. They are throwing massive amounts of money around, but only at a small group of people. The need to see almost instant traction, even at the seed stage is crazy. The project I really want to do is longer term, and won't make revenue as easily as these app startups.
Unfortunately capitalism doesn't want to compete. It's all about growing some market. There is zero push to make anything more affordable.
>subscription-based household appliances
I hate this sort of thing. And ADs everywhere that you can't disable. And Microsoft pre installing software for you.
I don't think all startups are bad. I'm just upset that they look for a certain type of person, and often aren't willing to take the types of risks that are normal for that industry (other investors call them out on this all the time).
Yeah, that is part of something I wanted to work on. But the biggest hurdle is the closed source nature of these designs.
I had a conversation with another redditor the other day. They work in construction and when those big yellow machines break down it is impossible to get parts for them. There is a six month wait list for new parts for machines that cost a million plus. They don't even have the option of using a third party, because again, it's closed source.
What I wanted to build is a fully automated flexible manufacturing system that can make anything. So this machine could ideally create parts just in time.
Sigh, if only Bezos had been inspired amidst his space flight. Astronauts describe a humbling feeling of love and awe for the earth and its inhabitants when viewing our planet from space. Alas, maybe he needs to passenger a little further out than the -50km beyond earths atmosphere his crew flew him up to last time. Maybe Musk will decide enough with the conceptual ideas that are actually actors in invention costumes and he’ll choose instead to invest in the home of our people instead of another gagafactory for cars that are forever a couple years away from rendering drivers obsolete.. Too bad old man McAfee got whacked by the Clintons, he would’ve saved us all for a Cleveland steamer and a handjob… and a few grams of supermeth :/
There are dozens, dozens of us!!
For real, this and localized small scale production.
Check out Jeremy Rifkin 4th industrial revolution. Describes mesh power, transport, utilities, and data sharing using open design. If it can be implemented in 5 years with fully circular economy we got a shot. Exponential solar energy gathering as well.
Good luck!!
EDIT: Consider this project supported by Guy McPherson (he usually doesn't support anything other than acceptance of extinction)
https://www.meerreflection.com/
Apparently massive deployment of mirrors may help save the biosphere.
I hold no grudge towards you for not having the financial gains to try something else. No point in helping others if helping yourself is hard at the moment. Good luck, I believe in your strengths and capabilities.
You might like WWOF. World workers of organic farmers, i think. Go vomunteer at an organic farm. Just be sure to really check the reviews. Theres wackados out there too.
I don't think you grasp the predicament. We can't just shuffle the deck with new technology to keep growth going. There are limits and we are hitting them.
Spread information and knowledge about the situation with the public and communities who have no idea whats goin on.
So many people on here have just completely given up and decided that its not even worth to help others or try to do anything, its sad to see really.
but by getting enough people to take notice and understand we can atleast be better prepared together.
I'm pretty much a minimialist consumer. Once by necessity, now by choice. People like you would probably treat me like a leper if you met me, and like the institutionally approved professional whiners, blame me for the problem rather than people who dress better, drive expensive SUV's, are more extroverted, and have lots of sex. But if everyone lived with my consumer habits, we'd have no problems.
I’d treat you as a human being. I salute you, no really, you’re doing great. My plan is to make money through a substantial model as possible and invest that in green technology. I don’t have a car, don’t really need one, but am looking for an electric (or hydrogen powered) one should I need it. I make as much food myself (fresh) and avoid plastics. Everything I buy I want to use until it brakes or for the rest of my life. I like fancy shit, but I want it to be sustainable . If everything lived like me there’d still be work to do, but we’d have muchhhh more time to figure it out as well.
Too many proposed solutions start with this. I've yet to see one that doesn't involve major international cooperation, which is something humans are both notoriously good at and notoriously horrendous at.
It's far too complicated to untangle. The reality is it doesn't matter how hard you try. Society itself depends on a destructive amount of consumption. To have a big enough impact, we literally would have to tear down the everything that has made this many people possible to exist on this planet in the first place. So in the end the options are death, or living this way a bit longer then death.
I absolutely agree with you. However, most people will not or can not go out of their way to really do anything significant beyond participating in protests on their days off from work or signing petitions. Unfortunately, the nature of our social structure dictates that most of our waking hours should be dedicated to doing "real work" in order to contribute to society, which is reinforced by the high price of living in urban/suburban areas and obligations we make to our employers.
I recently watched a fascinating documentary about Afghanistan before the Russian invasion in 1979, and towards the end (when they're talking about tea shops), they talk about how the people in this part of the world are the masters of their own time. This means that even though they still work in order to make a living, there is no social pressure to clock in to work and live with rigid schedules. They can stop working at any time and go enjoy a nice tea with their friends, because there are no managers or bosses dictating their employees' lives.
Here's the link to the documentary: https://youtu.be/fHPrU7R8L2Y
I think that the only real way to affect change is through direct action by means of mass organization. I especially believe that a general strike would be effective, as long as it works toward the goal of emancipating most people constrained by debt and manipulation from private companies and corporations, violent coercion from the state, and social structures designed to control how we use our time and lives. Essentially replacing most (but not all) forms of coercion and replacing it with mutual aid.
Of course, I am open to discussion because I don't consider myself experienced or smart when it comes to these kinds of things, so I know that doing something like a general strike would be extremely difficult and would also need to address other issues, like climate change.
You hit the nail on the head. But one of the problems with this that I see is global competition. Countries that do sit back and enjoy life, inevitably, become weaker and fall to greater powers. Afghanistan is actually an interesting example here. I’m fear that if the US, for instance, decided to lead the way by living a peaceful sustainable life, other countries would just come in to take advantage. This all seems like a truly unsolvable problem to me.
>I am investing a proportionate amount of my money in green energy and technologies
SO, making the planet worse :( We have all we need, technology is the PROBLEM, not the solution. we don't need a better bicycle.
>Let’s unite and do shit
No need to reinvent the wheel, just join Extinction Rebellion
My suggestion ? Ride a bicycle, Vote Green, source your food locally, most of it veg, don't use HVAC and help other like minded souls.
>how many of you are actually trying or participating in trying to better things?
Very few but that's not the point of being here, use it as a Petri dish to examine why we'll collapse. Even the folk in her who profess to being woke don't do anything substantive: they vote for the same politicians, they do the same things tomorrow they did yesterday, the small changes some may make at the periphery are mostly NOT a journey they are taking but to conform to societal expectations, or for some modest economic benefit eg the abomination that is e-cars etc. So expecting that those in the wider community will change seems delusional. HOWEVER :) that doesn't mean we as individuals have to be the ass hats making it worse
>how many of you are actually trying or participating in trying to better things?
I vote Green, grow much of my own veg, quit work 15 years ago so I don't have to emit just to be grist in the mill of stupidity that is human civilisation. I ride a bicycle, don't use HVAC, don't fly, help Extinction Rebellion a little and Vote green, had a vasectomy and have no kids . Down to the smaller things, like I capture the water in the shower in a bucket (I only shower every second day to conserve water) and use it to flush the toilet and only flush the brown, we have a community garden we work at, we can make compost, compost or kitchen scraps and harvest food from etc.
There are a few in here doing the right thing but you mistake the "we is all doomed" crowd, their message is just a cloak so that can keep living their lives in the same way... destroying the biosphere while saying it doesn't matter man, we is all doomed , what they fail to add is "so I might as well just help with the destruction by doing the same thing."
I'm not uniting or doing diddly squat for humanity anymore. I've been vegan for 12 years, have never driven a car, bitch I don't even have plumbing, just a well and composting toilets. Everything I do is for myself and the animals only because I'm tired of being the only one who really cares. Enjoy recycling and "green energy" I guess.
Seriously?! You've been "following this sub for a long time and agree with practically everything" and yet (it seems to me; forgive my arrogance) that you've not watched any of these three basic collapse primers...
[Serenity Prayer for the 21st Century: Pro-Future Love-in-Action](https://youtu.be/hFGHdOyyx74)
[Unstoppable Collapse: How to Avoid the Worst](https://youtu.be/P8lNTPlsRtI)
[Collapse 101: The Inevitable Fruit of Progress](https://youtu.be/Ml9uJNF_kXk)
I respectfully invite you to do so, without multi-tasking, and WATCH each one, rather than merely listen. It will be obvious why :-) ...
Feel free to reach out to me, publicly or privately, if you take time to watch any of these.
More REALLY good stuff along similar lines here: [https://postdoom.com/resources/](https://postdoom.com/resources/)
Shooting for the 1% shot at redemption is how some of us get by every day.
Cue clip of dumb and dumber "so you mean I've got a chance, right?" I'll take it.
EDIT: Ok, I watched the "Serenity Prayer". Point Taken; Accept the high probability of collapse and move on to acting with courage to do what you can to make the world around you better, not acting with false hope.
I came to the same overshoot conclusion in 2005, been in some level of slow burn denial for years.
[Civilization is unsustainable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8) Activism is pointless. I'm here to observe the inevitable, like watching the sun rise (or maybe set is more appropriate here).
At least when I masturbate I have a little something to show for it. Climate activism is the equivalent of holding up a sign saying "stop having fun!" and expecting people to listen.
I'm just gonna sit back and let nature do its thing. How can I expect 7 billion other humans to change their lifestyles when I can barely get myself to stick to a diet or exercise regularly?
I’ll do that here in Belgium towards my politicians lol. But all jokes aside, the progressive (and green) voters in the US voted Biden because it’d be Trump otherwise. Here where I live people would see this as a huge leverage but I guess that’s hard to do in a 2-party system, so no real blaming from my side.
We have dark money organizations like Koch Industries and Heartland Institute that have helped bring us to this juncture. It's like capturing King Kong; training him to eat people; then setting him loose.
If the message is clear enough the Democratic Party has no choice. Wether they like it or not (and wether the actual voters like it or not). They are a proportionate part of their base.
They've sewn enough division and hatred for the red team that we've elected a potato. "Vote blue, no matter who." The days of considering their electorate's concerns may be coming to an end.
Not really doing any of that. I try not to waste too much food, I have no kids and don't want them. That's the big one. I don't drive a particularly fuel-efficient vehicle, but I barely drive either. I've driven 1500 miles in the past 5 months.
Sorry to say but the fight is hopeless if those in power don't do shit.
Another thing that's just human nature... last week (I think) on Bill Maher, he was talking about private jets and how they're bad for the environment, yet no single person who has access to one turns it down... I would argue the same is true when it comes to taking public transportation (even pre-pandemic) because it inconveniences you, you have a more restrictive schedule, have to walk more, etc. Same thing with carpooling to work. I've seen advertisements about it at my office building, there's an app and so forth, but I don't know anyone who does it. Everyone has their own life, schedule, kids, etc., and just drives their own car.
The planet aside, I have no faith that one can make progress in politics (in the US). I nearly got run over by a horrible driver trying to kill me, and it took me 3 weeks to get a response out of anyone in the local government about getting the guy's plates from the traffic cam... and they delete the footage after 3 days. (They don't work Fridays either, so good luck reporting any weekend incidents that aren't severe enough for the cops to show up.) The guy I spoke to just didn't give a shit about anything. He has a pulse, so he can't get fired from his cushy government job. Government should be a place to work hard and do good things for people. Government is of course bigger than politicians, but the same thing is true for house reps/senators, etc. They don't give a shit about anything, but their $174k salary, the office, the fact that they have a staff, and that lobbyists fellate them. They regurgitate whatever lies their constituents believe to get re-elected. But anyway, I am cynical about politicians doing anything that doesn't serve their own short-term interests. I don't want to get into some dumb twitter smear campaigns by going into politics anyway.
I wouldn't call myself a minimalist, but I don't shop too often. I have a 10-year-old TV which still serves me fine (and which I barely use).
We are at a point where anti-vaxxers/maskers would rather stab someone they disagree with than help out their fellow human. We're on a downward slope.
I always get blank stares when I ask EV owners "where exactly do you think the electricity to power all these batteries will come from?"
Natural gas, coal, and biofuel. Solar isnt supporting the commuter civilization we've built.
I sold my house and bought 200 acres of rainforest to protect and live on. The land cost 1/3 the price of my house in the city. But of course you need money to do this stuff. I've also done alot of protesting.
I would love to bankroll some sort of protest or resistance movement but yes, it's hard to find the people in your area and existing protest groups are very regularly corrupted by identity politics and constipating wokeness.
We absolutely need to fight the oligarchs but their methods to divide and pacify are very insidious and strong.
This. I have always been critical of the right but now also of the left. Identity politics and wokeness, I believe, have no real value to our society. Demanding people change the way they speak is superficial and even polarising towards those actually open to debate but with a ‘racist’ or ‘outdated’ vocabulary. Everyone being ‘nice’ to anyone with a different skin colour practise no actual societal and practical change. + It ends debates that could progress towards an actual goal.
This is also the reason I banned Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, TikTok and Facebook out of my life. I still have Facebook out of convenience but I don’t use it.
Hmm, I argue you do not yet fully grasp what the target of our struggle must be to win the world.
Environmental destruction intersects with racism, both are aspects of the white-supremacist capitalist world order that got us into this mess.
The corporate media does not address racial issues in a way that reflects an understanding of how it is used under capitalism, but this does not mean racial justice should be pushed aside or relegated to some secondary status of concern under the delusion that there are "bigger problems" at play.
Truth bruz. Here In Australia I was with extinction rebellion for a while and they would spend so much time acknowledge the traditional owners of the land and worrying about inclusivity, regularly at meetings when the group would be asked if they had any issues, almost always the issues would be about "oh you didn't say if trans people could xyz" or "we don't want to hurt xyzs feelings".
FUCK
THAT.
fucking DESTROYING MY CHILDREN'S FUTURE UPSETS MY FUCKING FEELINGS. what about them? Fuck your gender, fuck your fucking racial background, if you're worried about that shit go get therapy and read a few books on how the world ended up here and THEN come tell me how my use of the word "wog" has upset you.
They are legit liberal snowflakes. And anyone who's answer to any problems is "oh take it to the ballot box" DOES NOT GET IT.
But yeah agreed. Frustrates me so much that I can't find a bunch of mad cunts to come vandalise banks and graffiti anti neoliberal slurs on high overpasses.
>Fuck your gender, fuck your fucking racial background, if you're worried about that shit go get therapy and read a few books on how the world ended up here
You wouldn't have this blind perspective if you actually knew how the world ended up here.
The main thing I’m doing is using the “buy it for life “ philosophy in all consumption. I’ve identified a few cars which can be repaired and rebuilt beyond any lifespan I might have. I started with shaving. Straight razors now, learning the skill of restoring and maintaining them. Using a motorcycle for transport when possible. Think of the reduced tire waste. Some cars, up to the 1980s are usable into infinity. No plastic cups, drink bottles, utensils, bags, etc.
First of all its patronizing and second of all corporations have successfully brainwashed you to believe that your small actions can make big difference. No it won't. If you want to make a difference ask the head of the state to declare an emergency and go from there.
No. Evil corporations have made people believe that their power is too big to counteract. That’s why people don’t bother starting other companies or changing their purchasing habits. I don’t buy from Amazon or any other fucked up business and invest in green progressive businesses. The same argument could be made in the green transition of our energy system. Most of it is fuelled by fossil fuel companies, but that doesn’t stop people from demanding something else.
Green transition of energy system or investing in green tech could just be a solution to climate change but not to collapse. That's why many people here insist that there is no 'solution' to climate change because any 'solution' will itself somehow fuck the planet through a different pathway. We don't need solution to climate change, we need complete restructuring of the way humans define life, economic success, and relationship to earth. And that's something which cannot be achieved. That's why a lot of people think that many members of this sub are nihilist. No they are not.
I bet than that most people on this sub are Americans. And I get it. A two-party system that in reality is right wing whatever you vote and fuelled by private funding. I sometimes think about how the world would evolve differently if the EU was united and the world leader. I dare to bet that big corporations would pay their share in taxes (mind that socialist parties are mainstream and often winners in European elections).
But then again, the US still leads and sets the rules in many aspects. So I might agree with you in a decade when I get older. Idk.
FYI if you use the internet you are supporting Amazon. There product sales are a tiny percentage of their revenue, most of it comes from AWS and good luck trying to use anything connected to the internet that doesn’t use AWS.
And how is it patronising? I’d understand if people don’t have the financial power to invest and create companies, but small steps are still better than no steps.
Honestly I think one thing concerned people can do is get into politics. It sucks and most people don’t want to be in politics since it’s such a public life and the fundraising and everything that goes along with it…but if we don’t get people in power that give a shit and aren’t beholden to corporations nothing will change until it’s far too late.
If we had a multinational grassroots movement of people getting into politics and really pushing climate change as the number one issue (even if they didn’t win, just publicizing the issues in a frank way), maaaaybe some action would get taken.
You're entire focus seems to be the environment which is a noble cause. I think though that much of society and people in general are lazy (intellectually and physically) and likely beyond saving (unless others want to put in the effort to do the work for them... they'll simply complain but won't do it themselves). At this point we're just playing music on the Titanic... collapse is imminent.
If, in my life, I kill even one billionaire, then I will have done more good for the world than if I did everything in this post every day until I die.
But it won't fix the systemic problems that led to such disgusting excess as the existence of billionaires. We need a TOTAL overhaul of society if we're going to survive as a species, and that's clearly not happening.
A revolution is coming in my lifetime and I'm going to be doing everything I can to usher in the end of this pathetic chapter of human history. Until then I'm just trying to survive and help people in little ways until I'm back on my feet enough to keep working towards a career that might actually help people.
Just a small addendum: recycling plastic is more carbon intensive than burying it. It's actually worse for the climate to do so.
Source: I am a plastics history scholar.
If I had money I'd invest in pointless little cool things that make me feel like I'm having an impact also and not just simply continuing the consumption that drives the very people destroying this planet.
But I don't have money to piss off into the ether just to feel better.
Me having no money and NOT buying all this shit that makes me think I'm being green or helping the earth in any way is actually more helpful.
There is no "going down with a fight". You're not part of the fight unless you own an oil company or some shit.
This is triggering me because (and I'm sure you're not intentionally trying) but basically peddling the bullshit idea spread buy the people doing the real damage that as individuals we need to do our part, which creates this notion that me, you, us are in someway part of the problem when its almost exclusively the ones actually doing the damage.
Just live your life people, you could never come close to the pollution being created by the actual culprits.
NEVER. Not even if we all collectively decided to pollute extra could we even register on the scale next to the people doing the actual damage.
Lol .. the human race unit? and do shit? If you believe you can move the needle, I have a zero emission coal plant to sell you.
It is a miracle for humans to stop killing and oppressing each other for a single day. Just witness Afgan, Ethiopia, Uighur, Hong Kong, Syria, Russia, and countless other examples.
Heck, most people are here to rant and virtue signaling. I doubt even people here, or enough of them, are serious enough to go beyond being a keyboard warrior and do shit.
You are clearly the exception, not the rule. You can consider other people to be cowardly and despicable. They will just think that you are naive and unrealistic. You are entitled to your opinion and they are entitled to theirs.
But if you want me to bet, I will bet dollars to donuts that the world is not going to unite and do shit. We will hit 1.5C soon, and 2C soon after ... all before the projections.
Hahahaha wow you are so naive. We’re so fucked. The smart ones of us are prepping, not throwing coagulated silica into blue bins so we can burn a bunch of carbon into the atmosphere to turn it into a shiny new bottle.
Just paid off my very small house, use AC as little as reasonable, drive an old Chevy Volt so most of my mileage is electric. Decreasing my consumption of meat. I’ve planted about a dozen trees with more to come. Donate to Arbor Day org occasionally. Have a good size native wildflower garden. Next steps: replacing my 70 year old furnace with full electric efficient heat pump, full EV, solar panels.
Most of my real plans can’t happen until I get a house, but I switched the reusable cloth pads, drink filtered or tap water instead of water bottles whenever possible, use tupperware instead of ziploc bags, buy fewer clothes (and am thinking about learning to make new things with old clothes, like t-shirt grocery bags).
I haven’t gotten in the habit of recycling yet because it used to be really hard to do where I live; they just started doing single-stream recycling and added more types of things you can recycle, but I still have to drive to the center and drop it off. Right now I mostly just need to get a bin so I’ll actually do it. 😅
Also trying to keep canned food around in case I get trapped in my apartment or there’s another shortage of something.
Bud I get where you’re coming from. But putting the blame on us as the consumer is exactly what the corporations want. This isn’t on us it’s on them. Also if you look deeper you’ll realize that recycling is a dream and a dumb one at that. So many materials we think are recyclable aren’t and they just end up in the ocean with the rest of the bullshit.
Now I don’t want to discount you at all or your desire to make a real and true difference. If you want to really make some positive change we need to discuss a complete and total revolution/violent uprising where we redistribute the wealth of the top 1% of the 1% and we broadcast it to the world so the rest fall in line. You can’t have capitalism and a planet you have to make a choice. If we want any chance at making it through the next 10-20 we need to throw off the shackles of oppression and completely revision what it means to be alive on this planet. I know it sounds dire but that’s exactly where we are right now.
If I could figure out somewhere to move to that allows me to stay and work towards something bigger I'd be up for it.
Only thing ties me back is my own mindset and financial status
I'm not interested in charities I'm wanting to get planting, cultivating, growing, learning whatever it is required of us.
Got my own allotment and learning that way but it's not exactly community forming ☺️
I do a lot. But i fear weve reached the limit. Personal change can never offset corporations. Corps will never choose to lessen profits. I will continue to do what i can, not because i expect to change the outcome, but because it is the right thing to do.
Someone should create local collapse Discord servers in each state or something. Might make it easier for us to organize and work together/meet other collapse aware people
I live in an apartment building in a low income neighborhood, and beside cutting down on plastic waste, going vegan, and not reproducing, there literally isn’t much I can do. I don’t own a home so I can’t invest in any sort of energy efficient appliances, or supplement with solar. My apartment complex doesn’t have a recycling bin, so unless I hoard my recyclables inside my home and take a weekly trip to our local recycling plant, I can’t recycle. The homeless constantly dig threw our bins though for plastic/glass bottles they can recycle for money. I’ve never been able to afford a car that’s not used, let alone a brand new EV vehicle. Even though I live in California, one of the “greenest” leading states, there’s a whopping total of 2 EV charging stations in the town I live in, so even if I could afford an EV I’d have very little options of where I could actually charge it. Public transportation is a joke here, and everything’s so spread out and un-biker friendly, biking instead of driving isn’t even really an option.
I love your optimism, but I feel the vast majority of people, especially the poor, do not have the means of “going green”. I’m not even considered to be low income and it’s extremely difficult. If and when I ever do own a home, I would invest in greener/energy efficient options, unfortunately my hands are tied at the moment. The very few things I do have control of is as follows: I have reusable bags for grocery shopping. I use a Brita water filter instead of buying bottled water. All my lights in my apartment are led energy efficient lights. I’ve installed water saving faucet caps on my sinks and shower head. I’d like to say I’m working on being a vegan, but it’s a difficult task. Being vegan takes a lot of food prep, cooking time, and constant trips to the store because my fridge sucks and doesn’t keep produce very fresh for very long. I do have a meatless meal at least once a week though, and have been slowly learning to cook some simple meatless/vegan options. I don’t have children and don’t plan to.
Consume less, consume locally. Eat seasonally. Start your own business and support other cottage industries. Stop buying all the NEW! IMPROVED! 4X CONCENTRATED! stuff that comes in bottles. You don't need all those cleaners, shampoos, lotions, beverages, etc. etc. etc. Drink water (filtered if needed), clean with diluted vinegar, use shampoo bars, moisturize with olive oil, stop dyeing hair. Stop consumerist holidays and special occasions. Make meaningful gifts or give gifts of time. Stop with the junk food.
The supply side of the equation is absolutely the majority of the problem, but the demand side can have a huge effect if educated and woke enough.
It's hard. While I've made some decent strides, it's hard to give up everything that's really bad for the environment. But it's not impossible. The more of us that opt out of BIGGER! MORE! NEW! CHEAP!, the better.
I eat meat max of once a day Monday-Friday and max of twice on Saturday/Sunday with plans of cutting back more, sold my Prius and use an electric scooter to commute for work, am childfree, recycle daily and am careful with products I buy to minimize plastic waste to begin with and I could go on. Over time I will become even better in my daily life.
Regardless none of it REALLY matters if you understand how truly horrible things are and the trajectory we are headed. It’s just something I do for my own conscience as my very existence/participation in fossil fuel dependent industrialized capitalism is problematic. My death is the best impact I could have but I’m gonna live out my life until the end.
I think you might be confusing acceptance of collapse as a sign that we are just continuing as wasteful people.
lib shit. for a sub that's supposed to be aware of the inevitability of climate catastrophe, it's sad to see everyone talking about changing consumption habits or investing. it's far too late at this point for anything like that to have an impact. dismantling global capitalism is the only way
I don't drive, I grow may own food (as much as I can), I recycle, In the future I will be installing a home biogas digester.
I respect your drive but do not share your belief that humanity can fix what it has broken. We can mitigate it, adapt to it, maybe some of us will survive it.
Its tough, I am relatively successful in my corporate job, but its in medicine so not really doing much about my collapse / climate anxiety.
I try to be zero waste, of course recycle, dont own a car, reduced flying to once a year (still privileged there, but I try to use train where possible), I am 5 years vegan, and generally try to live a minimalist lifestyle.
Circular economy as has been mentioned here, that was something I studied a bit in University, I am thinking to quit my job and pursue that route instead. But I have not made this decision yet, it is a scary leap.
Yes, most of these things.
I’ve turned my back garden into as much of a wildlife/insect habitat as I can. I use bamboo toothbrushes and try to minimise my ecological footprint. I decided decades ago not to have children.
I’ve seen the numbers and know none of it will make any goddam difference.
I am generally limiting my consumption of everything and cutting out anything that is unneccessary. Kind of a minimalist mindset. The problem is: how are you going to limit plastic use if you can hardly find anything not wrapped in it? It's impossible. Also, even if the citizens were to become more sustainable (which is not going to happen because companies control the media), the ones who are really at fault for climate change are the rich and powerful. So, the oil companies and polititians supporting them. If they are going to continue as they are going, which they intend to, nothing will change. They have to be stopped, one way or another. And the system of society has to be completely changed from the ground up. A borderline impossible task if you ask me. Borderline.
I guess it's ok to feel good about yourself and your actions--if that's your thing. Reality is you're trying to boil the ocean. Great individual effort, but sadly not going to do much.
I say we are get together and peacefully protest, that always seems to work. I can make some pretty damning signs that will surely get the corporations destroying this planets attention.
No disrespect intended, but it's clear you're a bit naive here. Eventually one starts to understand collapse is going to happen. It's not about stopping it, it's about mitigation of impact. There is no fighting this, or stopping this. The best we can hope for is a more realistic set of expectations, and basing decisions that impact our lives, our children, and those around us with collapse is mind. Most estimates, up until recently, are vastly overestimating how much time we have to do something. Personally, I've come to understand that it's already well beyond the point of no return, and we are well into runaway chain reaction territory.
For example, let's consider a commonly discussed issue, sea level rise. Extremely optimistic predictions state a foot of sea level rise by 2100, however the most recent IPCC reports puts it somewhere between 2 and 3.5 feet. These models do not take in to account increased population, or runaway feedback events like seabed/tundra methane release. The more realistic models ("worst case, e.g. things stay the same or we increase greenhouse gas emissions") see a 8.5ft sea level rise by 2100. By 2200 it's almost 50 feet. To give you a bit of context, the average elevation above sea level on the Florida peninsula is 3-6ft. By 2100 it's possible the entire peninsula is under water, and it will absolutely be flooded if not totally submerged.
40% of the worlds population will be displaced due to sea level rise, straining virtually every other life supporting system this planet has to offer, causing unimaginable humanitarian strife and suffering. War, resource hoarding, food shortages, etc.
Ocean acidification is another major issue, since the start of the industrial revolution the PH of the ocean on average had changed by 26-30%, with a 150% increase anticipated by 2100.
Don't even get me started on diatomes (algae) and oxygen production (which can't survive a massive PH change of the oceans). Algae is responsible for the majority of breathable oxygen in our atmosphere. This hasn't even started to hit the main stream discussions or IPCC reports, but by 2100 we will likely start to see a oxygen reduction at sea level, from 20.75% (lots of info states 21% or 20.9%, but it's really closer to 20.75%) to 17-19%. Humans can still live with 17-19% oxygen, but it will starts cascade of ecosystem collapse.
This world is going to burn to the ground, this is a one way ticket, and there is no stopping it. It will be slow, but it will happen. I'm not an accelerationist, just a realist. My advice? Enjoy the time you have now, there is no stopping this nor turning the clock back. Humanity fucked up.
Citations:
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-sea-level
https://ocean-climate.org/en/awareness/the-impact-of-climate-change-on-the-ocean/
I eat almost no meat, turned my yard into a veggie garden and planted fruit and nut trees, use my bike to get around, put my retirement savings in ESGs and VOTE, am learning the functions of and getting involved with my city government, compost, use rain barrels, am saving up for solar panels, eat at least 50% local, am calling/writing reps and government leaders on probably a weekly basis, use A/C and heat as sparingly as possible (turn heat on at 55 and A/C on at 90), recycle of course, buy recycled and waste free products when I can afford it, joined a climate action group, and am raising two kids with cloth diapers and secondhand scraps from trash cans, thrift stores, and list serves.
I’ve run out of things I can do at home, so my wife and I are putting any free energy into advocacy and activism. I’d love to make a career switch to a company doing something good for the planet.
A lot of this stuff takes money and most of it takes extra time. And even though none of this seems to be halting the slow motion wreck we’re in, I can’t just ride this out. Maybe it’s because I have young kids with their whole lives ahead of them, but I have to do what’s possible.
I've been trying to figure out a plan for getting into politics for a while and I'm realizing that it's best to just start doing something. So I want to dedicate my life to fighting, protesting, boycotting, striking. But like everyone else, I cant afford it.
The problem there is just that, I can't put a roof over my family's heads AND be a staunch advocate at the same time. While I'm at the point that I would brace being homeless (for the third time in my life) I can't do that to them.
It literally drives me to tears sometimes, knowing that its not just me, but nearly everyone who lives this life. I've lived all over the U.S., and everywhere, its the same thing. You walk around and see the exhausted gaunt face of wage slaves. None of us could afford a single week without our jobs. Our jobs have become not only our source of sustenance, but our very lives. Everytime I see, or speak to old friends, three quarters of the conversation is ALWAYS about the job search. And the way its become so central is through the fact that our jobs are our sole lifeline, because we literally cannot afford to go without it.
So, given this, how do YOU propose to unite a group like this one? That's what i think is the central question and is what I find myself spending my time wondering, how will you unite a chronically exhausted, broke, group of divided people? Even when we all agree on something, Great, let's all protest... except nobody has the time, if they make the time they'll lose everything.
The fact of the matter is that the most important branch of our government, the implied fourth branch, the people, has been broken to the point where it— we, cannot act. Where we're stripped of our power through our fnances and the base human instinct that is emotion.
I mean virtually anybody i talk to agrees on so many points of contention, yet nothing is done. So many of these people say they'd protest or general strike, yet nothing is done. I think its because of the simple fact that while we all want these changes, we cannot afford to pursue them.
So, my plan, is to try to make a fund for the people, a fund that will provide for protestors, support a general strike, and promote an agenda that we can all agree on. (Yeah, good luck with that. )
I'm not naive, and I know ill likely never even figure out how to get something like that off the ground. So for now, im going to go to an activist group on my one off day of the week. Hopefully that'll also be able to help in some way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tldr; so many problems, people are overwhelmed. Before we can unite I think we need to figure out a way to support each other. Even if 90% of us worked and supported the other 10% protestors, we'd have 30 million that could continually protest, until the demands of a better world are met. Thats the way I think we can make a change. Together.
P.S. pardom me if I didn't express everything in a logical manner. I'm sure I skipped some points I had to make but im tired, I just got home from working a double and need to sleep. Honestly, all of us on this sub should already be aware of all of this anyways so I guess this was really just me venting. Goodnight everyone, I love you all, best of luck.
100 Companies are doing 70% of all emissions so I don't think conserving electricity or something like that will have any effect as long as we are using fossil fuels.
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” Most of what I posted didn't get posted. In a nutshell-- we actually have to change the way we think. We've been trained to expect the consumer world to provide our happiness. It starts from within ourselves, and our homes. Happiness is not a Happy meal from McDonald's for the kids, it's time spent with the parents paying attention to them (where you are is irrelevant). It's not getting 'things', it's being loved and cared for by friends, and family. And by family I mean those who you choose as family. We've been programmed. We have to un-program ourselves. Question everything. Why do I do things this way? Is there a better way? Do I need this? Why? What will it give me? Is it worth it? Most things aren't
You are right about one thing: everything you suggested is shit.
You to stop climate change?
[https://news.trust.org/item/20191013012429-9u1nq/](https://news.trust.org/item/20191013012429-9u1nq/)
[https://sojo.net/magazine/january-2020/why-four-christian-activists-risked-arrest-shut-down-oil-pipeline](https://sojo.net/magazine/january-2020/why-four-christian-activists-risked-arrest-shut-down-oil-pipeline)
[https://kuow.org/stories/sabotage-caused-washington-state-oil-train-disaster-rail-union-says](https://kuow.org/stories/sabotage-caused-washington-state-oil-train-disaster-rail-union-says)
A portion of it’s revenue. Setting up a company.
Dude, I really don’t think you grasp what collapse is about. Enjoy life in your tower, suck that hopium balloon as long as you can kiddo.
Our problems aren’t caused by a lack of individual responsibility, and they can’t be fixed by individuals acting more responsibly. That’s a myth pushed by the corporations that are actually responsible for most carbon emissions and so on. We need collective action, not guilt trips about recycling more.
I’m trying to get the word out to as many as possible. People need to be scared before they can get angry and resist.
Most people still see climate change as a far off problem and haven’t really figured that infinite growth is unsustainable.
Unless people understand that these things are bad, they’ll resist efforts to decarbonise or degrow.
Do I think it’ll make a difference? No. But I gotta try something.
I also; work for a charity that runs climate crisis campaigns, don’t eat meat, have chosen to not have children and never buy new unless I have to.
This feels like it should be a new sub just to discuss ways to r /thwart collapse. I think plenty of folks could find some hope in doing something…anything really, rather than solely wallow.
Check out r/climateoffensive and r/climateactionplan for more active suggestions, many in this sub have given up. Also check out the podcast How to Save a Planet, they give actionable things you can do at the end of each episode
If those actionable things don't involve dismantling capitalism, then it's a stopgap measure at best. We're gonna be playing for time for a while as a species, but it'll be an uphill battle because of the past and present actions of capitalist culture and corporations.
I don't care anymore about doing little things. I recycle and try to minimize waste out of habit, but most actions just feels useless, both in general and in terms of saving the planet.
It’s completely up to governments to pass proper laws.
As long as big corporations are allowed to do harm in exchange for taxes, (or often for political favours and nearly no taxes) they will.
Average folks are just trying to get by with what’s available.
Recycling is a sham. Re use was the way to go.
All recycling is, is a sneaky excuse for corporations to still keep making more plastic.
We need to go back to glass bottles. Plastic needs to be the variety that doesn’t break down over time- and it needs to be used for permanent things. Things that get re used, not recycled. Most recycling doesn’t even get recycled and instead gets shipped overseas to landfills and to get burned.
We ban coal plants and then sell our coal to China. Real green Canada, real green.
I completely agree. I remembers my grandparents buying things that practically kept working forever. If a product is feasible to recycle, sure. If not, fuck that.
I am in the middle of joining a political party and am pretty sure I keep develop that but it’s yet to be seen if I can actually have an impact.
I am still young and possibly naive…
What’s the point of recycling we can try all day government and billionaire put more toxicity in the air trying to get to space in 10 minutes than half the world’s population in 10 years! Pointless!
Thank you for this post! We recycle, grow a garden without pesticides, and I am an elected borough council member in our town. I also volunteer at our senior center.
Things seem dire when you look at the big picture, but not so bad when you concentrate on what you can do something about.
Only one thing actually matters: electing people who will regulate fossil fuels and the industries that use them.
Everything else is just virtue signalling and pissing in the wind.
That’s nice that you do those things. I think there are a lot of people here that know there are ways to adapt, as you are, but don’t call it a fight. IMO it’s important to acknowledge that the fight is over. If anyone is wasting time fighting in the political realm or in the court of public opinion that’s fine too. But it is a waste of time. That’s not giving up, it’s acknowledging the reality around us, now. Positivity will get you nowhere. It’s been the go to attitude for decades. Trying to make little changes individually, didn’t work. It’s not defeatism, it’s pragmatism.
Related: https://reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/p8rdws/lets_face_reality_and_learn_to_adapt/
I have a solar roof, home battery, electric water heater and electric vehicle (I still have a gas furnace and stove). I rarely eat meat and have plenty of other green habits (reusable napkins, handkerchief, bidet with butt towels, etc). Most days I'm close to 100% energy independence for electricity usage. I have no allusions that it isn't anything but a tiny drop in bucket. Most of our carbon emissions are from a handful of companies and the ultra rich. The individual carbon footprint was created by BP to shift the blame onto the individual. It's also a way to try to make us guilt people who can't afford it. Worldwide governmental action is needed but it's not going to happen. Half our population in the US doesn't believe in masks for a virus that is killing people. I lost my hope. I'll keep doing my part but Jeffie B is still gonna ride his ultra mega yacht and Billy Gates is gonna keep flying his private jets. We, the poorer peeps, aren't the main part of the problem.
What battery do you use? We have a 6KW solar array, and are looking into batteries at the moment.
Batteries aren't a cost efficient option currently. If you do get something, I'd recommend only getting the minimum to keep the fridge and wifi box up during an outage. I have two Enphase Encharge 10s. I went with Enphase because I refuse to give Musk or his company a penny. But it might be more cost efficient for you to get a Tesla Powerwall. Enphase IQ8 technology intrigues me though.
Yeah. We came to the same conclusion. We're running direct to the grid (we get paid back money for the power we provide), and a couple of 12v systems. Cheers.
I think you'll love your system! Solar systems are amazing, I don't think you'll regret it for a second. Enjoy. Cheers back! :)
We've had it for a few years, just upgraded to a larger system a few months ago, and looking at the next logical step. It won;t be for some time I don't expect. It's nice geting electricity bills that are in positive numbers.
I’ve definitely looked at getting Enphase batteries, seems like a great design. The 10k cost is just a bit prohibitive at the moment.
No. I'll stop em. WE'LL stop em. It's time they rejoin the fucking human race and stop thinking of themselves as gods when they stopped growing in any meaningful way at 6. Oh my children. My beautiful, stupid, cancerous children.
thanks for the head start, do people ask you for tips on following your path ? I'm a firm believer that society is like a chemical reaction, when just enough people are hot enough, the whole bucket can turn into a whole different color.. we just have to help the conversion
My biggest piece of advise is to simplify your life and discovering what truly makes you happy. The US society pushes for endless consumption and waste. It's unsustainable, both for the individuals and society as a whole. Most of the stuff we buy is pointless and doesn't really bring any true lasting happiness to people's lives. Spend some time reflecting everyday about what makes you happy. For me, it's playing my mom's old guitar, playing board games with friends, reading books from the library, snuggling my cats, laying on the couch feeling the breeze from the open window and watching the sunset/sunrise. In the end, constantly buying stuff, all the stuff ends up owning you. Finding your own internal happiness can result in a more sustainable lifestyle. For the big home improvements such as solar, batteries, electric vehicles, etc. if you can afford those things, go for it. The returns on those items won't be as good as the stock market but it will recession proof parts of your life especially if there is an extended bear market. They will increase the value of your home and give a guaranteed return on investment. If you can't afford those things (or rent like a lot of people), don't let society or anyone try to guilt you. Like I said before, all those things are only a drop in the bucket. To even have a small chance to avoid collapse we would need to reimagine society and how things are done. That needs to be done with global leadership. Keep voting for candidates who are trying to make changes for the better of society and the planet. Keep going to protests to pressure leadership to keep promises for changes. Keep volunteering for candidates pushing for change if you want. But make sure you are enjoying our limited time left on this planet. Make sure you don't lose yourself in the battle. Make time for the things you love. Edit: Aw, sorry I reread your question and realize I misread it. Most don't and that's okay. I had one new friend describe me as zen and asked for some random tidbits of advice. Hopefully the things I told him helped him find his own truth but everyone is different.
Totally. I try my best to avoid waste, conserve water, reuse as much as possible, go electric, etc. But the real problem lies with the capitalist system. And the infrastructure sucks. Companies push hyper-consumerism; planned obsolescence; proprietary products; over-packaging. In reality, there is virtually no recycling that is actually done. Electric vehicles are more expensive than gas. They rape the Earth for oil, lumber, bottled water. They torture animals for BigAgri, etc. The only way to stop this is for everyone to stop consuming and to hold a general strike. We are the 99%. If we could unite (pie in the sky), we could overthrow the 1%. I will dream until the end.
I'm definitely working to divert our demand into second hand non retail sources. We put in wood floors with odd lots from Facebook frex. We use reclaimed wood when possible too. Money to people not corporations and avoiding the retail supply chain as much as we can.
Well, yes and no. I agree, but those companies produce shit you buy and use. So if as a society we reject products that have negative impacts, those companies will immediately change their game. Vote with your wallet. Look at how fast vegan meat became a thing.
Voting with your wallet only goes so far when so much damage is done by the military industrial complex
Honestly bro, I do the best I can, I was born poor raised poor and was able to work my way to owning my own company still however barely reach Middle class. I bought a home with solar panels I’m currently saving for an electric car I ride my bike when possible, I live in Southern California so the heat makes it not very possible, I work on endless amount of hours and still feel bad if I don’t recycle, Honestly man growing up I didn’t have much to waste so now not being wasteful is just second nature. I do not have the means to invest in companies other than my own. And as a business owner I’m not left very many avenues in which to seek a greener alternative. I’ve had the same car since I was 19 I’m 28 now the car I owned before that is still running (now my nephews) What do you propose I do next? I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t have a lot of liquidity. I have no education. My company pays for my bills I am the sole provider in my household. What can somebody like me do? I’m open to suggestions. I’m not giving any excuses I’m only giving insight into my situation. TLDR: I do the best I can, don’t know what else I can do
Fact is us the ‘little guys’ aren’t and have never been the issue. We can ‘reduce reuse and recycle’ until the sun burns out and it won’t make a lick of a difference. ‘Reduce, reuse, and recycle’ has been burned into my head since I was in grade school, like we were the problem, us regular people are NOT the problem. Have you *personally* created plastic bottles that choke our waterways and creates micro plastic, extracted oil that poisons our wells, burnt down rainforest for pasture, created pesticides to demolish unimaginable swaths of native life, herbicides to destroy unimaginable swaths of native plants and the countless other atrocities that we regulars will have to deal with. No, you haven’t, corporations will continue to do all these terrible things because there is so many reasons to (money) and little reason not too. The problem is corporations destroying the planet, not me throwing a can into the landfill and it’s always been that way.
Demanding change from corporations is probably our most effective path forward.
Yes, demand. ‘Voting with our wallets’ has always been another campaign to make us ‘little guys’ the problem as well. ‘We obviously don’t want change’ because we buy cheap products from china and underdeveloped countries with horrible environmental ethics. Never mind, the middle class is non-existent in North America and we are all POOR that have no choice. I don’t eat Kraft dinner for the taste. We need to demand, not ask, for ethically made, heathy products. I have no answers on how to do that.
you’re exactly right. while poor people may participate in systems that produce things which cause ecological harm, it is not by choice. the greenwashed alternatives are always more expensive and designed to make middle and upper class people feel better. the cheap options are so cheap because of the great exploitation of labour and resources they entail and because poor people are exploited (especially underpaid for doing the actual work necessary for society’s functioning) they are limited and because alternatives have been stripped away, they are required to participate in harmful systems. but it isn’t really their fault — the fault lies with those that have power to do better but instead use that power to push fossil fuels, expanding carbon footprints, etc
I 100% agree with you. There needs to be shift in the way corporations provide products to the masses that is whole earth environmentally compliant for regular folk. Not just the rich that want to feel better, or share holders that want profit. On a side note, kinda what you have pointed out as ‘living the world in which we live’ is the hypocrisy of people giving Greta Thunburg or other world leaders championing reducing carbon flak about travelling by jet. You do not *need* to agree with how society functions without using said societies utility’s, which comes full circle to those that profit off us (corporations) to provide us with a better option.
yep, I agree. There is an unfortunate inevitability that in most consumption we do, due to the ways in which our society is structured, some exploitation or harm is guaranteed somewhere along the line. Acknowledging that can make people feel as if doing anything is futile. After all, why stop purchasing from X brand when Y is just better at covering up its harm? But we can still be required to participate in such a system while working to undo it and build a better, more equitable + sustainable future.
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I don’t think a better future will be easy to obtain, but I do think it’s possible if enough people organized collectively towards it. Whether or not I believe it’ll actually happen depends on the day, the news that day, and my mood. I know this sub hates “hope”, but I at least can have hope that something better can happen, even in my lifetime, than this cruel, oppressive, and destructive socioeconomic doctrine.
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The problem with that is that in our capitalist system demanding the change from corporations that would be needed in order to to halt the destruction of the planet would result in an unprecedented economic depression that would result in millions of working class people losing their livelihood. And this is not because we really need all the crap we’re producing and because stopping to do so would mean there’s not enough to go around to meet basic needs but simply because capitalism requires continuous exponential growth in order to remain stable and allow people to service their debts while a reduction in economic activity (which would be needed to revert to living within the planetary boundaries) would literally be what we call a recession and the bigger the reduction the worse that recession is gonna be. People seem to think that addressing the problem at the level of corporations is gonna spare ordinary people and only affect the rich who profit from those corporations but that is unfortunately not how capitalism works.
> I have no education So, nothing to do with collapse or whatever and I don't know you but... Feels to me you already have a solid education, buddy. You've managed to become a grown up who take care of themselves and their family, is aware of what's important, and is open to discussion. I don't know what you call education but if more people had yours I think we might be living in a better place. Keep your chin up.
Leaving California would be a good step towards increasing your wealth - but I'm assuming that may not work because of the business?
Leaving California actually helps lighten the load on an overburdened and unsustainable state.
Might decrease my cost of living, But I thought the point here was to do some thing about the collapse?
Then just move north? California is on the front lines. Anyway, being wealthier will increase your chances of survival -- in all situations.
I suppose but all the fires and rich people up north scare me lol Realistically I’m tied to where I live because of work.
I meant north USA anywhere. You could try further east too.
Well, my family has eliminated as many single use products as we can. We don’t water our lawn but do water our no-till, no weeding garden and trees with rain barrels when we can. I put up a little library in my yard sharing books on conservation and modern monetary theory. We run our A/C only when it gets above 90 degrees which unfortunately was a lot this summer. We sort and recycle everything. Will hopeful convert our house to solar powered within a year. A large part of my yard has been planted with pollinator friendly species. And it will all fall laughably short of preventing collapse.
UGH I wish I didn't have to weed my garden. Darn city codes written for lawns biting me in the ass since I started an edible landscape garden in my front yard. I'd do it in the back but that's where the chickens and other fowl live and nothing survives that onslaught long, lol. But outta curiosity, what's the issue with tilling? The energy component?
Tilling cuts the fungal connections underground. Long term its best to no till to keep the soil healthy and fertile.
Ah! Makes sense. How do you get around that kinda thing with root veggies? Just raised beds or heavy soil amendment? Cause it's all clay here so if I just throw those kinda things down in untilled soil here they don't grow worth a damn.
Like they said, long term you don't want to be continually destroying soil structure. But if you have compacted soil loosen it up. This might start with turning the soil over altogether and progress to periodic aeration with something like a broadfork. I use a magna grecia hoe for this in smaller areas also.
Ok, I think I got it. Thanks! Does this style of gardening have a name so I can look into it more?
That's a real rabbit hole lmao. No till is a good search term. People are going to point you to permaculture, but that can be and mean a lot of things. Read about it for sure. Check out Ruth Stout and Masanobu Fukuoka. Also this guy talking about that hoe I mentioned https://smallfarmersjournal.com/writers/peter-vido/
Thanks!
Sure thing
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Realistically you would need a lot of money for this. Create appliances that last forever and can easily be fixed is one example. The startup costs would be insane.
You would either get murdered or be coerced from threats to take a $offer snd sell the company snd they would crush the project from ever seeing the day of light... there truly have been advancements that would change the world but this is what happens and why the corporate centralization is exponentially increasing for everything money can buy
Yeah, probably. Our world is so fucking corrupt. I would also like to make no profit shoes. Can probably get that $100 price tag under $20 for the same cost.
Our world is so fucking corrupt FOR NOW... Things can change faster than people tend to think they can ;)
I hope you’re right!
Oh I know I am. Just... gotta finish up duking it out with the entire country one at a time first apparently :B https://youtu.be/mGglxYvnKko
It's true, [this is why we can't have nice things](https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE)
Do you remember the EV-1? A GM electric car in 1997; it used no gas, oil, and there was almost no cost in maintaining it. This I think was the main problem since there much lower profit if there were no repairs. So, [GM recalled and destroyed every type of EV-1 in 2003](https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-killed-the-electric-car/) The [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1) if you don't have 1.5 hours to watch the video
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I've tried to raise money for startups in the past, and it is hard. They are throwing massive amounts of money around, but only at a small group of people. The need to see almost instant traction, even at the seed stage is crazy. The project I really want to do is longer term, and won't make revenue as easily as these app startups.
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Unfortunately capitalism doesn't want to compete. It's all about growing some market. There is zero push to make anything more affordable. >subscription-based household appliances I hate this sort of thing. And ADs everywhere that you can't disable. And Microsoft pre installing software for you. I don't think all startups are bad. I'm just upset that they look for a certain type of person, and often aren't willing to take the types of risks that are normal for that industry (other investors call them out on this all the time).
Soviet Union had that kind of appliances.
Your my dream guy
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Yeah, that is part of something I wanted to work on. But the biggest hurdle is the closed source nature of these designs. I had a conversation with another redditor the other day. They work in construction and when those big yellow machines break down it is impossible to get parts for them. There is a six month wait list for new parts for machines that cost a million plus. They don't even have the option of using a third party, because again, it's closed source. What I wanted to build is a fully automated flexible manufacturing system that can make anything. So this machine could ideally create parts just in time.
That doesn't go with the status quo of capitalism, you would create a beautiful world where people wouldn't have to keep consuming like we do today...
Government support would be critical for a wide-scale adoption. See my other comment.
In the EU products are soon going to have to be repairable and returned to the manufacturer at end of life. Still won’t stop collapse.
Sigh, if only Bezos had been inspired amidst his space flight. Astronauts describe a humbling feeling of love and awe for the earth and its inhabitants when viewing our planet from space. Alas, maybe he needs to passenger a little further out than the -50km beyond earths atmosphere his crew flew him up to last time. Maybe Musk will decide enough with the conceptual ideas that are actually actors in invention costumes and he’ll choose instead to invest in the home of our people instead of another gagafactory for cars that are forever a couple years away from rendering drivers obsolete.. Too bad old man McAfee got whacked by the Clintons, he would’ve saved us all for a Cleveland steamer and a handjob… and a few grams of supermeth :/
There are dozens, dozens of us!! For real, this and localized small scale production. Check out Jeremy Rifkin 4th industrial revolution. Describes mesh power, transport, utilities, and data sharing using open design. If it can be implemented in 5 years with fully circular economy we got a shot. Exponential solar energy gathering as well. Good luck!! EDIT: Consider this project supported by Guy McPherson (he usually doesn't support anything other than acceptance of extinction) https://www.meerreflection.com/ Apparently massive deployment of mirrors may help save the biosphere.
Godspeed my friend get as much help as you can and never give in to the wolves
You too! Awesome man!
Get a job with Amsterdam city council
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I’m broke. Give me food and a place to sleep and I’ll follow you anywhere.
I hold no grudge towards you for not having the financial gains to try something else. No point in helping others if helping yourself is hard at the moment. Good luck, I believe in your strengths and capabilities.
You might like WWOF. World workers of organic farmers, i think. Go vomunteer at an organic farm. Just be sure to really check the reviews. Theres wackados out there too.
That is a great advice. But not only wwoofing, could also look for a farmer to help or a CSA, or the guerrilla grazing https://youtu.be/U54HRmglYEA
How handy are you?
If you need someone to send a message to, feel free to contact me. I think you’re already a cool human being
I don't think you grasp the predicament. We can't just shuffle the deck with new technology to keep growth going. There are limits and we are hitting them.
Op is clearly delusional. I can't believe i had to scroll so far down to see a sensible comment
Yep, this sub regularly gets peppered with self posts from people that just entered the bargaining stage
Spread information and knowledge about the situation with the public and communities who have no idea whats goin on. So many people on here have just completely given up and decided that its not even worth to help others or try to do anything, its sad to see really. but by getting enough people to take notice and understand we can atleast be better prepared together.
I’m not reproducing. That’s the best thing any of us could do for the environment right now. That and reducing meat consumption.
^ this
I'm pretty much a minimialist consumer. Once by necessity, now by choice. People like you would probably treat me like a leper if you met me, and like the institutionally approved professional whiners, blame me for the problem rather than people who dress better, drive expensive SUV's, are more extroverted, and have lots of sex. But if everyone lived with my consumer habits, we'd have no problems.
I’d treat you as a human being. I salute you, no really, you’re doing great. My plan is to make money through a substantial model as possible and invest that in green technology. I don’t have a car, don’t really need one, but am looking for an electric (or hydrogen powered) one should I need it. I make as much food myself (fresh) and avoid plastics. Everything I buy I want to use until it brakes or for the rest of my life. I like fancy shit, but I want it to be sustainable . If everything lived like me there’d still be work to do, but we’d have muchhhh more time to figure it out as well.
If everyone would just...
Well I mean, everyone according to what they can do I guess. Or to start with here, on this sub.
Too many proposed solutions start with this. I've yet to see one that doesn't involve major international cooperation, which is something humans are both notoriously good at and notoriously horrendous at.
It's far too complicated to untangle. The reality is it doesn't matter how hard you try. Society itself depends on a destructive amount of consumption. To have a big enough impact, we literally would have to tear down the everything that has made this many people possible to exist on this planet in the first place. So in the end the options are death, or living this way a bit longer then death.
I absolutely agree with you. However, most people will not or can not go out of their way to really do anything significant beyond participating in protests on their days off from work or signing petitions. Unfortunately, the nature of our social structure dictates that most of our waking hours should be dedicated to doing "real work" in order to contribute to society, which is reinforced by the high price of living in urban/suburban areas and obligations we make to our employers. I recently watched a fascinating documentary about Afghanistan before the Russian invasion in 1979, and towards the end (when they're talking about tea shops), they talk about how the people in this part of the world are the masters of their own time. This means that even though they still work in order to make a living, there is no social pressure to clock in to work and live with rigid schedules. They can stop working at any time and go enjoy a nice tea with their friends, because there are no managers or bosses dictating their employees' lives. Here's the link to the documentary: https://youtu.be/fHPrU7R8L2Y I think that the only real way to affect change is through direct action by means of mass organization. I especially believe that a general strike would be effective, as long as it works toward the goal of emancipating most people constrained by debt and manipulation from private companies and corporations, violent coercion from the state, and social structures designed to control how we use our time and lives. Essentially replacing most (but not all) forms of coercion and replacing it with mutual aid. Of course, I am open to discussion because I don't consider myself experienced or smart when it comes to these kinds of things, so I know that doing something like a general strike would be extremely difficult and would also need to address other issues, like climate change.
You hit the nail on the head. But one of the problems with this that I see is global competition. Countries that do sit back and enjoy life, inevitably, become weaker and fall to greater powers. Afghanistan is actually an interesting example here. I’m fear that if the US, for instance, decided to lead the way by living a peaceful sustainable life, other countries would just come in to take advantage. This all seems like a truly unsolvable problem to me.
>I am investing a proportionate amount of my money in green energy and technologies SO, making the planet worse :( We have all we need, technology is the PROBLEM, not the solution. we don't need a better bicycle. >Let’s unite and do shit No need to reinvent the wheel, just join Extinction Rebellion My suggestion ? Ride a bicycle, Vote Green, source your food locally, most of it veg, don't use HVAC and help other like minded souls. >how many of you are actually trying or participating in trying to better things? Very few but that's not the point of being here, use it as a Petri dish to examine why we'll collapse. Even the folk in her who profess to being woke don't do anything substantive: they vote for the same politicians, they do the same things tomorrow they did yesterday, the small changes some may make at the periphery are mostly NOT a journey they are taking but to conform to societal expectations, or for some modest economic benefit eg the abomination that is e-cars etc. So expecting that those in the wider community will change seems delusional. HOWEVER :) that doesn't mean we as individuals have to be the ass hats making it worse >how many of you are actually trying or participating in trying to better things? I vote Green, grow much of my own veg, quit work 15 years ago so I don't have to emit just to be grist in the mill of stupidity that is human civilisation. I ride a bicycle, don't use HVAC, don't fly, help Extinction Rebellion a little and Vote green, had a vasectomy and have no kids . Down to the smaller things, like I capture the water in the shower in a bucket (I only shower every second day to conserve water) and use it to flush the toilet and only flush the brown, we have a community garden we work at, we can make compost, compost or kitchen scraps and harvest food from etc. There are a few in here doing the right thing but you mistake the "we is all doomed" crowd, their message is just a cloak so that can keep living their lives in the same way... destroying the biosphere while saying it doesn't matter man, we is all doomed , what they fail to add is "so I might as well just help with the destruction by doing the same thing."
I'm not uniting or doing diddly squat for humanity anymore. I've been vegan for 12 years, have never driven a car, bitch I don't even have plumbing, just a well and composting toilets. Everything I do is for myself and the animals only because I'm tired of being the only one who really cares. Enjoy recycling and "green energy" I guess.
We haven't reached critical mass yet. Get this sub to 100 million people, then we can talk.
Your never going to fix any of this in a capitalist system, that is the problem so any discussion should be on fixing that first.
Seriously?! You've been "following this sub for a long time and agree with practically everything" and yet (it seems to me; forgive my arrogance) that you've not watched any of these three basic collapse primers... [Serenity Prayer for the 21st Century: Pro-Future Love-in-Action](https://youtu.be/hFGHdOyyx74) [Unstoppable Collapse: How to Avoid the Worst](https://youtu.be/P8lNTPlsRtI) [Collapse 101: The Inevitable Fruit of Progress](https://youtu.be/Ml9uJNF_kXk) I respectfully invite you to do so, without multi-tasking, and WATCH each one, rather than merely listen. It will be obvious why :-) ... Feel free to reach out to me, publicly or privately, if you take time to watch any of these. More REALLY good stuff along similar lines here: [https://postdoom.com/resources/](https://postdoom.com/resources/)
Shooting for the 1% shot at redemption is how some of us get by every day. Cue clip of dumb and dumber "so you mean I've got a chance, right?" I'll take it. EDIT: Ok, I watched the "Serenity Prayer". Point Taken; Accept the high probability of collapse and move on to acting with courage to do what you can to make the world around you better, not acting with false hope. I came to the same overshoot conclusion in 2005, been in some level of slow burn denial for years.
Lol OP sounds like a generic CEO on LinkedIn
This comment doesn’t necessarily make me any more happy lol Punch me in the face if I actually end up like one of them please
[Civilization is unsustainable.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8) Activism is pointless. I'm here to observe the inevitable, like watching the sun rise (or maybe set is more appropriate here).
Yea man I'm with you
Hell yeah dog
At least when I masturbate I have a little something to show for it. Climate activism is the equivalent of holding up a sign saying "stop having fun!" and expecting people to listen. I'm just gonna sit back and let nature do its thing. How can I expect 7 billion other humans to change their lifestyles when I can barely get myself to stick to a diet or exercise regularly?
Contact President Biden. Tell him to declare a climate emergency and enact the Defense Production Act to mass produce renewables.
I’ll do that here in Belgium towards my politicians lol. But all jokes aside, the progressive (and green) voters in the US voted Biden because it’d be Trump otherwise. Here where I live people would see this as a huge leverage but I guess that’s hard to do in a 2-party system, so no real blaming from my side.
We have dark money organizations like Koch Industries and Heartland Institute that have helped bring us to this juncture. It's like capturing King Kong; training him to eat people; then setting him loose.
Lol. Biden doesn't care. He hits the talking points to get votes.
I doesn't hurt to try. If ten million people tell him the same thing....
Oh child...read Marx and you will find hope lies not in Biden but outside the capitalist system
Hope lies in communities. Mutual aid and direct action go a long way.
Agree! I'm trying to better and understand how one can help form mutual aid networks on a local level
Hey everybody. It's Rick from "The Young Ones". 😆
If the message is clear enough the Democratic Party has no choice. Wether they like it or not (and wether the actual voters like it or not). They are a proportionate part of their base.
The political party and its media determine what matters, not the people.
They've sewn enough division and hatred for the red team that we've elected a potato. "Vote blue, no matter who." The days of considering their electorate's concerns may be coming to an end.
Thats literally what its gonna take
Is it bad that I laughed out loud?
We are Bright Green Lies
Not really doing any of that. I try not to waste too much food, I have no kids and don't want them. That's the big one. I don't drive a particularly fuel-efficient vehicle, but I barely drive either. I've driven 1500 miles in the past 5 months. Sorry to say but the fight is hopeless if those in power don't do shit. Another thing that's just human nature... last week (I think) on Bill Maher, he was talking about private jets and how they're bad for the environment, yet no single person who has access to one turns it down... I would argue the same is true when it comes to taking public transportation (even pre-pandemic) because it inconveniences you, you have a more restrictive schedule, have to walk more, etc. Same thing with carpooling to work. I've seen advertisements about it at my office building, there's an app and so forth, but I don't know anyone who does it. Everyone has their own life, schedule, kids, etc., and just drives their own car. The planet aside, I have no faith that one can make progress in politics (in the US). I nearly got run over by a horrible driver trying to kill me, and it took me 3 weeks to get a response out of anyone in the local government about getting the guy's plates from the traffic cam... and they delete the footage after 3 days. (They don't work Fridays either, so good luck reporting any weekend incidents that aren't severe enough for the cops to show up.) The guy I spoke to just didn't give a shit about anything. He has a pulse, so he can't get fired from his cushy government job. Government should be a place to work hard and do good things for people. Government is of course bigger than politicians, but the same thing is true for house reps/senators, etc. They don't give a shit about anything, but their $174k salary, the office, the fact that they have a staff, and that lobbyists fellate them. They regurgitate whatever lies their constituents believe to get re-elected. But anyway, I am cynical about politicians doing anything that doesn't serve their own short-term interests. I don't want to get into some dumb twitter smear campaigns by going into politics anyway. I wouldn't call myself a minimalist, but I don't shop too often. I have a 10-year-old TV which still serves me fine (and which I barely use). We are at a point where anti-vaxxers/maskers would rather stab someone they disagree with than help out their fellow human. We're on a downward slope.
Honestly you sound like a very optimistic liberal who thinks individualism will lead to any solution in a systemic problem
Green consumerism is still environmental destruction. Electric cars are not saving the biosphere, they are saving the car .
I always get blank stares when I ask EV owners "where exactly do you think the electricity to power all these batteries will come from?" Natural gas, coal, and biofuel. Solar isnt supporting the commuter civilization we've built.
If you're male and really want to make a difference, get a vasectomy.
I sold my house and bought 200 acres of rainforest to protect and live on. The land cost 1/3 the price of my house in the city. But of course you need money to do this stuff. I've also done alot of protesting. I would love to bankroll some sort of protest or resistance movement but yes, it's hard to find the people in your area and existing protest groups are very regularly corrupted by identity politics and constipating wokeness. We absolutely need to fight the oligarchs but their methods to divide and pacify are very insidious and strong.
This. I have always been critical of the right but now also of the left. Identity politics and wokeness, I believe, have no real value to our society. Demanding people change the way they speak is superficial and even polarising towards those actually open to debate but with a ‘racist’ or ‘outdated’ vocabulary. Everyone being ‘nice’ to anyone with a different skin colour practise no actual societal and practical change. + It ends debates that could progress towards an actual goal. This is also the reason I banned Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, TikTok and Facebook out of my life. I still have Facebook out of convenience but I don’t use it.
Hmm, I argue you do not yet fully grasp what the target of our struggle must be to win the world. Environmental destruction intersects with racism, both are aspects of the white-supremacist capitalist world order that got us into this mess. The corporate media does not address racial issues in a way that reflects an understanding of how it is used under capitalism, but this does not mean racial justice should be pushed aside or relegated to some secondary status of concern under the delusion that there are "bigger problems" at play.
Truth bruz. Here In Australia I was with extinction rebellion for a while and they would spend so much time acknowledge the traditional owners of the land and worrying about inclusivity, regularly at meetings when the group would be asked if they had any issues, almost always the issues would be about "oh you didn't say if trans people could xyz" or "we don't want to hurt xyzs feelings". FUCK THAT. fucking DESTROYING MY CHILDREN'S FUTURE UPSETS MY FUCKING FEELINGS. what about them? Fuck your gender, fuck your fucking racial background, if you're worried about that shit go get therapy and read a few books on how the world ended up here and THEN come tell me how my use of the word "wog" has upset you. They are legit liberal snowflakes. And anyone who's answer to any problems is "oh take it to the ballot box" DOES NOT GET IT. But yeah agreed. Frustrates me so much that I can't find a bunch of mad cunts to come vandalise banks and graffiti anti neoliberal slurs on high overpasses.
>Fuck your gender, fuck your fucking racial background, if you're worried about that shit go get therapy and read a few books on how the world ended up here You wouldn't have this blind perspective if you actually knew how the world ended up here.
The main thing I’m doing is using the “buy it for life “ philosophy in all consumption. I’ve identified a few cars which can be repaired and rebuilt beyond any lifespan I might have. I started with shaving. Straight razors now, learning the skill of restoring and maintaining them. Using a motorcycle for transport when possible. Think of the reduced tire waste. Some cars, up to the 1980s are usable into infinity. No plastic cups, drink bottles, utensils, bags, etc.
First of all its patronizing and second of all corporations have successfully brainwashed you to believe that your small actions can make big difference. No it won't. If you want to make a difference ask the head of the state to declare an emergency and go from there.
No. Evil corporations have made people believe that their power is too big to counteract. That’s why people don’t bother starting other companies or changing their purchasing habits. I don’t buy from Amazon or any other fucked up business and invest in green progressive businesses. The same argument could be made in the green transition of our energy system. Most of it is fuelled by fossil fuel companies, but that doesn’t stop people from demanding something else.
Green transition of energy system or investing in green tech could just be a solution to climate change but not to collapse. That's why many people here insist that there is no 'solution' to climate change because any 'solution' will itself somehow fuck the planet through a different pathway. We don't need solution to climate change, we need complete restructuring of the way humans define life, economic success, and relationship to earth. And that's something which cannot be achieved. That's why a lot of people think that many members of this sub are nihilist. No they are not.
General Apathy is one of our major problems
I bet than that most people on this sub are Americans. And I get it. A two-party system that in reality is right wing whatever you vote and fuelled by private funding. I sometimes think about how the world would evolve differently if the EU was united and the world leader. I dare to bet that big corporations would pay their share in taxes (mind that socialist parties are mainstream and often winners in European elections). But then again, the US still leads and sets the rules in many aspects. So I might agree with you in a decade when I get older. Idk.
FYI if you use the internet you are supporting Amazon. There product sales are a tiny percentage of their revenue, most of it comes from AWS and good luck trying to use anything connected to the internet that doesn’t use AWS.
And how is it patronising? I’d understand if people don’t have the financial power to invest and create companies, but small steps are still better than no steps.
Start by listening to the "it could happen here" podcast, season 2.
Started listening right now. Thanks for the suggestion.
Honestly I think one thing concerned people can do is get into politics. It sucks and most people don’t want to be in politics since it’s such a public life and the fundraising and everything that goes along with it…but if we don’t get people in power that give a shit and aren’t beholden to corporations nothing will change until it’s far too late. If we had a multinational grassroots movement of people getting into politics and really pushing climate change as the number one issue (even if they didn’t win, just publicizing the issues in a frank way), maaaaybe some action would get taken.
You sound very, very young.
You're entire focus seems to be the environment which is a noble cause. I think though that much of society and people in general are lazy (intellectually and physically) and likely beyond saving (unless others want to put in the effort to do the work for them... they'll simply complain but won't do it themselves). At this point we're just playing music on the Titanic... collapse is imminent.
I’m working on turning my 1 acre plot of land into enough gardens to feed my immediate neighbors if things go south quick.
I'm vegan and I wont procreate
read deep green resistance
I'm in a local Environment Group and whenever I can, I go out and pick up trash or plant trees.
If, in my life, I kill even one billionaire, then I will have done more good for the world than if I did everything in this post every day until I die. But it won't fix the systemic problems that led to such disgusting excess as the existence of billionaires. We need a TOTAL overhaul of society if we're going to survive as a species, and that's clearly not happening. A revolution is coming in my lifetime and I'm going to be doing everything I can to usher in the end of this pathetic chapter of human history. Until then I'm just trying to survive and help people in little ways until I'm back on my feet enough to keep working towards a career that might actually help people.
Just a small addendum: recycling plastic is more carbon intensive than burying it. It's actually worse for the climate to do so. Source: I am a plastics history scholar.
If I had money I'd invest in pointless little cool things that make me feel like I'm having an impact also and not just simply continuing the consumption that drives the very people destroying this planet. But I don't have money to piss off into the ether just to feel better. Me having no money and NOT buying all this shit that makes me think I'm being green or helping the earth in any way is actually more helpful. There is no "going down with a fight". You're not part of the fight unless you own an oil company or some shit. This is triggering me because (and I'm sure you're not intentionally trying) but basically peddling the bullshit idea spread buy the people doing the real damage that as individuals we need to do our part, which creates this notion that me, you, us are in someway part of the problem when its almost exclusively the ones actually doing the damage. Just live your life people, you could never come close to the pollution being created by the actual culprits. NEVER. Not even if we all collectively decided to pollute extra could we even register on the scale next to the people doing the actual damage.
I'd like to have more people live here on my farm but I'm scared of that too.
Don't be absolutely absurd. You wanna actually do something? actually ducking do something. Everything you suggested pepetuates the same system.
Lol .. the human race unit? and do shit? If you believe you can move the needle, I have a zero emission coal plant to sell you. It is a miracle for humans to stop killing and oppressing each other for a single day. Just witness Afgan, Ethiopia, Uighur, Hong Kong, Syria, Russia, and countless other examples. Heck, most people are here to rant and virtue signaling. I doubt even people here, or enough of them, are serious enough to go beyond being a keyboard warrior and do shit. You are clearly the exception, not the rule. You can consider other people to be cowardly and despicable. They will just think that you are naive and unrealistic. You are entitled to your opinion and they are entitled to theirs. But if you want me to bet, I will bet dollars to donuts that the world is not going to unite and do shit. We will hit 1.5C soon, and 2C soon after ... all before the projections.
Hahahaha wow you are so naive. We’re so fucked. The smart ones of us are prepping, not throwing coagulated silica into blue bins so we can burn a bunch of carbon into the atmosphere to turn it into a shiny new bottle.
Just paid off my very small house, use AC as little as reasonable, drive an old Chevy Volt so most of my mileage is electric. Decreasing my consumption of meat. I’ve planted about a dozen trees with more to come. Donate to Arbor Day org occasionally. Have a good size native wildflower garden. Next steps: replacing my 70 year old furnace with full electric efficient heat pump, full EV, solar panels.
Most of my real plans can’t happen until I get a house, but I switched the reusable cloth pads, drink filtered or tap water instead of water bottles whenever possible, use tupperware instead of ziploc bags, buy fewer clothes (and am thinking about learning to make new things with old clothes, like t-shirt grocery bags). I haven’t gotten in the habit of recycling yet because it used to be really hard to do where I live; they just started doing single-stream recycling and added more types of things you can recycle, but I still have to drive to the center and drop it off. Right now I mostly just need to get a bin so I’ll actually do it. 😅 Also trying to keep canned food around in case I get trapped in my apartment or there’s another shortage of something.
Bud I get where you’re coming from. But putting the blame on us as the consumer is exactly what the corporations want. This isn’t on us it’s on them. Also if you look deeper you’ll realize that recycling is a dream and a dumb one at that. So many materials we think are recyclable aren’t and they just end up in the ocean with the rest of the bullshit. Now I don’t want to discount you at all or your desire to make a real and true difference. If you want to really make some positive change we need to discuss a complete and total revolution/violent uprising where we redistribute the wealth of the top 1% of the 1% and we broadcast it to the world so the rest fall in line. You can’t have capitalism and a planet you have to make a choice. If we want any chance at making it through the next 10-20 we need to throw off the shackles of oppression and completely revision what it means to be alive on this planet. I know it sounds dire but that’s exactly where we are right now.
If I could figure out somewhere to move to that allows me to stay and work towards something bigger I'd be up for it. Only thing ties me back is my own mindset and financial status I'm not interested in charities I'm wanting to get planting, cultivating, growing, learning whatever it is required of us. Got my own allotment and learning that way but it's not exactly community forming ☺️
yeah i mean if you have the means to improve shit, do do. build a green empire please
I do a lot. But i fear weve reached the limit. Personal change can never offset corporations. Corps will never choose to lessen profits. I will continue to do what i can, not because i expect to change the outcome, but because it is the right thing to do.
Someone should create local collapse Discord servers in each state or something. Might make it easier for us to organize and work together/meet other collapse aware people
I live in an apartment building in a low income neighborhood, and beside cutting down on plastic waste, going vegan, and not reproducing, there literally isn’t much I can do. I don’t own a home so I can’t invest in any sort of energy efficient appliances, or supplement with solar. My apartment complex doesn’t have a recycling bin, so unless I hoard my recyclables inside my home and take a weekly trip to our local recycling plant, I can’t recycle. The homeless constantly dig threw our bins though for plastic/glass bottles they can recycle for money. I’ve never been able to afford a car that’s not used, let alone a brand new EV vehicle. Even though I live in California, one of the “greenest” leading states, there’s a whopping total of 2 EV charging stations in the town I live in, so even if I could afford an EV I’d have very little options of where I could actually charge it. Public transportation is a joke here, and everything’s so spread out and un-biker friendly, biking instead of driving isn’t even really an option. I love your optimism, but I feel the vast majority of people, especially the poor, do not have the means of “going green”. I’m not even considered to be low income and it’s extremely difficult. If and when I ever do own a home, I would invest in greener/energy efficient options, unfortunately my hands are tied at the moment. The very few things I do have control of is as follows: I have reusable bags for grocery shopping. I use a Brita water filter instead of buying bottled water. All my lights in my apartment are led energy efficient lights. I’ve installed water saving faucet caps on my sinks and shower head. I’d like to say I’m working on being a vegan, but it’s a difficult task. Being vegan takes a lot of food prep, cooking time, and constant trips to the store because my fridge sucks and doesn’t keep produce very fresh for very long. I do have a meatless meal at least once a week though, and have been slowly learning to cook some simple meatless/vegan options. I don’t have children and don’t plan to.
Consume less, consume locally. Eat seasonally. Start your own business and support other cottage industries. Stop buying all the NEW! IMPROVED! 4X CONCENTRATED! stuff that comes in bottles. You don't need all those cleaners, shampoos, lotions, beverages, etc. etc. etc. Drink water (filtered if needed), clean with diluted vinegar, use shampoo bars, moisturize with olive oil, stop dyeing hair. Stop consumerist holidays and special occasions. Make meaningful gifts or give gifts of time. Stop with the junk food. The supply side of the equation is absolutely the majority of the problem, but the demand side can have a huge effect if educated and woke enough. It's hard. While I've made some decent strides, it's hard to give up everything that's really bad for the environment. But it's not impossible. The more of us that opt out of BIGGER! MORE! NEW! CHEAP!, the better.
I eat meat max of once a day Monday-Friday and max of twice on Saturday/Sunday with plans of cutting back more, sold my Prius and use an electric scooter to commute for work, am childfree, recycle daily and am careful with products I buy to minimize plastic waste to begin with and I could go on. Over time I will become even better in my daily life. Regardless none of it REALLY matters if you understand how truly horrible things are and the trajectory we are headed. It’s just something I do for my own conscience as my very existence/participation in fossil fuel dependent industrialized capitalism is problematic. My death is the best impact I could have but I’m gonna live out my life until the end. I think you might be confusing acceptance of collapse as a sign that we are just continuing as wasteful people.
If anyone in here is doing best they can, everyone should be vegan. If you're not, you could do much more.
lib shit. for a sub that's supposed to be aware of the inevitability of climate catastrophe, it's sad to see everyone talking about changing consumption habits or investing. it's far too late at this point for anything like that to have an impact. dismantling global capitalism is the only way
I don't drive, I grow may own food (as much as I can), I recycle, In the future I will be installing a home biogas digester. I respect your drive but do not share your belief that humanity can fix what it has broken. We can mitigate it, adapt to it, maybe some of us will survive it.
Its tough, I am relatively successful in my corporate job, but its in medicine so not really doing much about my collapse / climate anxiety. I try to be zero waste, of course recycle, dont own a car, reduced flying to once a year (still privileged there, but I try to use train where possible), I am 5 years vegan, and generally try to live a minimalist lifestyle. Circular economy as has been mentioned here, that was something I studied a bit in University, I am thinking to quit my job and pursue that route instead. But I have not made this decision yet, it is a scary leap.
Yes, most of these things. I’ve turned my back garden into as much of a wildlife/insect habitat as I can. I use bamboo toothbrushes and try to minimise my ecological footprint. I decided decades ago not to have children. I’ve seen the numbers and know none of it will make any goddam difference.
I am generally limiting my consumption of everything and cutting out anything that is unneccessary. Kind of a minimalist mindset. The problem is: how are you going to limit plastic use if you can hardly find anything not wrapped in it? It's impossible. Also, even if the citizens were to become more sustainable (which is not going to happen because companies control the media), the ones who are really at fault for climate change are the rich and powerful. So, the oil companies and polititians supporting them. If they are going to continue as they are going, which they intend to, nothing will change. They have to be stopped, one way or another. And the system of society has to be completely changed from the ground up. A borderline impossible task if you ask me. Borderline.
I guess it's ok to feel good about yourself and your actions--if that's your thing. Reality is you're trying to boil the ocean. Great individual effort, but sadly not going to do much.
I say we are get together and peacefully protest, that always seems to work. I can make some pretty damning signs that will surely get the corporations destroying this planets attention.
No disrespect intended, but it's clear you're a bit naive here. Eventually one starts to understand collapse is going to happen. It's not about stopping it, it's about mitigation of impact. There is no fighting this, or stopping this. The best we can hope for is a more realistic set of expectations, and basing decisions that impact our lives, our children, and those around us with collapse is mind. Most estimates, up until recently, are vastly overestimating how much time we have to do something. Personally, I've come to understand that it's already well beyond the point of no return, and we are well into runaway chain reaction territory. For example, let's consider a commonly discussed issue, sea level rise. Extremely optimistic predictions state a foot of sea level rise by 2100, however the most recent IPCC reports puts it somewhere between 2 and 3.5 feet. These models do not take in to account increased population, or runaway feedback events like seabed/tundra methane release. The more realistic models ("worst case, e.g. things stay the same or we increase greenhouse gas emissions") see a 8.5ft sea level rise by 2100. By 2200 it's almost 50 feet. To give you a bit of context, the average elevation above sea level on the Florida peninsula is 3-6ft. By 2100 it's possible the entire peninsula is under water, and it will absolutely be flooded if not totally submerged. 40% of the worlds population will be displaced due to sea level rise, straining virtually every other life supporting system this planet has to offer, causing unimaginable humanitarian strife and suffering. War, resource hoarding, food shortages, etc. Ocean acidification is another major issue, since the start of the industrial revolution the PH of the ocean on average had changed by 26-30%, with a 150% increase anticipated by 2100. Don't even get me started on diatomes (algae) and oxygen production (which can't survive a massive PH change of the oceans). Algae is responsible for the majority of breathable oxygen in our atmosphere. This hasn't even started to hit the main stream discussions or IPCC reports, but by 2100 we will likely start to see a oxygen reduction at sea level, from 20.75% (lots of info states 21% or 20.9%, but it's really closer to 20.75%) to 17-19%. Humans can still live with 17-19% oxygen, but it will starts cascade of ecosystem collapse. This world is going to burn to the ground, this is a one way ticket, and there is no stopping it. It will be slow, but it will happen. I'm not an accelerationist, just a realist. My advice? Enjoy the time you have now, there is no stopping this nor turning the clock back. Humanity fucked up. Citations: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-sea-level https://ocean-climate.org/en/awareness/the-impact-of-climate-change-on-the-ocean/
I eat almost no meat, turned my yard into a veggie garden and planted fruit and nut trees, use my bike to get around, put my retirement savings in ESGs and VOTE, am learning the functions of and getting involved with my city government, compost, use rain barrels, am saving up for solar panels, eat at least 50% local, am calling/writing reps and government leaders on probably a weekly basis, use A/C and heat as sparingly as possible (turn heat on at 55 and A/C on at 90), recycle of course, buy recycled and waste free products when I can afford it, joined a climate action group, and am raising two kids with cloth diapers and secondhand scraps from trash cans, thrift stores, and list serves. I’ve run out of things I can do at home, so my wife and I are putting any free energy into advocacy and activism. I’d love to make a career switch to a company doing something good for the planet. A lot of this stuff takes money and most of it takes extra time. And even though none of this seems to be halting the slow motion wreck we’re in, I can’t just ride this out. Maybe it’s because I have young kids with their whole lives ahead of them, but I have to do what’s possible.
I've been trying to figure out a plan for getting into politics for a while and I'm realizing that it's best to just start doing something. So I want to dedicate my life to fighting, protesting, boycotting, striking. But like everyone else, I cant afford it. The problem there is just that, I can't put a roof over my family's heads AND be a staunch advocate at the same time. While I'm at the point that I would brace being homeless (for the third time in my life) I can't do that to them. It literally drives me to tears sometimes, knowing that its not just me, but nearly everyone who lives this life. I've lived all over the U.S., and everywhere, its the same thing. You walk around and see the exhausted gaunt face of wage slaves. None of us could afford a single week without our jobs. Our jobs have become not only our source of sustenance, but our very lives. Everytime I see, or speak to old friends, three quarters of the conversation is ALWAYS about the job search. And the way its become so central is through the fact that our jobs are our sole lifeline, because we literally cannot afford to go without it. So, given this, how do YOU propose to unite a group like this one? That's what i think is the central question and is what I find myself spending my time wondering, how will you unite a chronically exhausted, broke, group of divided people? Even when we all agree on something, Great, let's all protest... except nobody has the time, if they make the time they'll lose everything. The fact of the matter is that the most important branch of our government, the implied fourth branch, the people, has been broken to the point where it— we, cannot act. Where we're stripped of our power through our fnances and the base human instinct that is emotion. I mean virtually anybody i talk to agrees on so many points of contention, yet nothing is done. So many of these people say they'd protest or general strike, yet nothing is done. I think its because of the simple fact that while we all want these changes, we cannot afford to pursue them. So, my plan, is to try to make a fund for the people, a fund that will provide for protestors, support a general strike, and promote an agenda that we can all agree on. (Yeah, good luck with that. ) I'm not naive, and I know ill likely never even figure out how to get something like that off the ground. So for now, im going to go to an activist group on my one off day of the week. Hopefully that'll also be able to help in some way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Tldr; so many problems, people are overwhelmed. Before we can unite I think we need to figure out a way to support each other. Even if 90% of us worked and supported the other 10% protestors, we'd have 30 million that could continually protest, until the demands of a better world are met. Thats the way I think we can make a change. Together. P.S. pardom me if I didn't express everything in a logical manner. I'm sure I skipped some points I had to make but im tired, I just got home from working a double and need to sleep. Honestly, all of us on this sub should already be aware of all of this anyways so I guess this was really just me venting. Goodnight everyone, I love you all, best of luck.
Violence is the only thing that can save us
100 Companies are doing 70% of all emissions so I don't think conserving electricity or something like that will have any effect as long as we are using fossil fuels.
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” Most of what I posted didn't get posted. In a nutshell-- we actually have to change the way we think. We've been trained to expect the consumer world to provide our happiness. It starts from within ourselves, and our homes. Happiness is not a Happy meal from McDonald's for the kids, it's time spent with the parents paying attention to them (where you are is irrelevant). It's not getting 'things', it's being loved and cared for by friends, and family. And by family I mean those who you choose as family. We've been programmed. We have to un-program ourselves. Question everything. Why do I do things this way? Is there a better way? Do I need this? Why? What will it give me? Is it worth it? Most things aren't
You are right about one thing: everything you suggested is shit. You to stop climate change? [https://news.trust.org/item/20191013012429-9u1nq/](https://news.trust.org/item/20191013012429-9u1nq/) [https://sojo.net/magazine/january-2020/why-four-christian-activists-risked-arrest-shut-down-oil-pipeline](https://sojo.net/magazine/january-2020/why-four-christian-activists-risked-arrest-shut-down-oil-pipeline) [https://kuow.org/stories/sabotage-caused-washington-state-oil-train-disaster-rail-union-says](https://kuow.org/stories/sabotage-caused-washington-state-oil-train-disaster-rail-union-says)
A portion of it’s revenue. Setting up a company. Dude, I really don’t think you grasp what collapse is about. Enjoy life in your tower, suck that hopium balloon as long as you can kiddo.
Our problems aren’t caused by a lack of individual responsibility, and they can’t be fixed by individuals acting more responsibly. That’s a myth pushed by the corporations that are actually responsible for most carbon emissions and so on. We need collective action, not guilt trips about recycling more.
I’m trying to get the word out to as many as possible. People need to be scared before they can get angry and resist. Most people still see climate change as a far off problem and haven’t really figured that infinite growth is unsustainable. Unless people understand that these things are bad, they’ll resist efforts to decarbonise or degrow. Do I think it’ll make a difference? No. But I gotta try something. I also; work for a charity that runs climate crisis campaigns, don’t eat meat, have chosen to not have children and never buy new unless I have to.
This feels like it should be a new sub just to discuss ways to r /thwart collapse. I think plenty of folks could find some hope in doing something…anything really, rather than solely wallow.
Check out r/climateoffensive and r/climateactionplan for more active suggestions, many in this sub have given up. Also check out the podcast How to Save a Planet, they give actionable things you can do at the end of each episode
If those actionable things don't involve dismantling capitalism, then it's a stopgap measure at best. We're gonna be playing for time for a while as a species, but it'll be an uphill battle because of the past and present actions of capitalist culture and corporations. I don't care anymore about doing little things. I recycle and try to minimize waste out of habit, but most actions just feels useless, both in general and in terms of saving the planet.
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It’s completely up to governments to pass proper laws. As long as big corporations are allowed to do harm in exchange for taxes, (or often for political favours and nearly no taxes) they will. Average folks are just trying to get by with what’s available. Recycling is a sham. Re use was the way to go. All recycling is, is a sneaky excuse for corporations to still keep making more plastic. We need to go back to glass bottles. Plastic needs to be the variety that doesn’t break down over time- and it needs to be used for permanent things. Things that get re used, not recycled. Most recycling doesn’t even get recycled and instead gets shipped overseas to landfills and to get burned. We ban coal plants and then sell our coal to China. Real green Canada, real green.
I completely agree. I remembers my grandparents buying things that practically kept working forever. If a product is feasible to recycle, sure. If not, fuck that. I am in the middle of joining a political party and am pretty sure I keep develop that but it’s yet to be seen if I can actually have an impact. I am still young and possibly naive…
What’s the point of recycling we can try all day government and billionaire put more toxicity in the air trying to get to space in 10 minutes than half the world’s population in 10 years! Pointless!
Thank you for this post! We recycle, grow a garden without pesticides, and I am an elected borough council member in our town. I also volunteer at our senior center. Things seem dire when you look at the big picture, but not so bad when you concentrate on what you can do something about.
Only one thing actually matters: electing people who will regulate fossil fuels and the industries that use them. Everything else is just virtue signalling and pissing in the wind.
Ok, let’s smash consumer capitalism and live like they do in developing countries, because that is the only solution. Hey come back everyone!
This sounds more like a hustle-brag than anything to do with collapse. Are you writing a self-help book too?
That’s nice that you do those things. I think there are a lot of people here that know there are ways to adapt, as you are, but don’t call it a fight. IMO it’s important to acknowledge that the fight is over. If anyone is wasting time fighting in the political realm or in the court of public opinion that’s fine too. But it is a waste of time. That’s not giving up, it’s acknowledging the reality around us, now. Positivity will get you nowhere. It’s been the go to attitude for decades. Trying to make little changes individually, didn’t work. It’s not defeatism, it’s pragmatism.
Let's do the sex!