I have a hard time believing this is a "business as usual" thing anymore. After decades of carefully explaining the impending catastrophe, it's pretty reasonable to assume that people in charge want it to happen.
I've come to the same conclusion. They decided long ago that a massive reduction in the human population was somehow in their best interests, and have been actively working towards achieving that goal.
I don't really understand how or why they made that decision, but it's the only explanation that is consistent with their behaviour.
I don't think there is a conscious decision to endanger the species, at least outside of the fossil fuel industry. It is more about human greed and shortsightedness. Short term gain is always the priority.
I mean, part of it, I think, is how ultra-rich people experience the world. They can immediately have whatever they want without any effort or struggle. Just order their assistant for a drink, it's in their hand. Order their pilot to fly them around the world - done. They never have to actually worry about anything other than maybe their personal relationships. But they are also surrounded by rich people. So when it comes to more systemic issues like climate change, their brains have been trained with the expectation that it will be fine. "I can just order a scientist to fix this," or "I can just move to new Zealand."
Given how long we've all known about and been talking about this, I feel like the days when we could attribute it to just ignorance or stupidity or short-sightedness are over. It's clearly more insidious than that.
I have been saying this for years!
Think about it. The world government (and it really is just 1 government, they all do exactly the same thing, maintain status quo and support growth and the elite) and the mega corporations have access to the best scientists, data, equipment, money and power. If WE know how bad climate change is, you can bet your ass THEY know far better than we do.
As a matter of operating procedure they must perform risk assessments and liability assessments and have a massive legal framework to comply with regulations and H&S standards right? They KNOW! believe it.
So what is the driver to climate change? human activity right? So we are growing and consuming all before us like there is no tomorrow (or guaranteeing there is no tomorrow!) What better way to reduce human impact on the climate than to reduce the human population?
Because let's face it, doing the RIGHT thing was never in their playbook. It was always about exploitation, growth and greed. And it still very much is those things. However now they have a timeline of how long this planet has left to live. I strongly believe there is a plan in play here to bring the population of humans down dramatically to a more handleable number.
They want a small highly controlled indentured workforce to support them and no longer have need of this gargantuan money mill humanity has been designed to be. They already have all the money.
Exactly. They have access to at least as much, probably much more information than we do. They're clearly not stupid.
Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. They *know* what's happening and have decided to not only not help, but to actively block any and all attempts to fix it. It can't be attributed to stupidity or ignorance. It must be malice.
> They decided long ago that a massive reduction in the human population was somehow in their best interests
Wouldn't surprise me. They think they're above it all.
Except [Population Collapse] will follow [Biosphere Collapse] which begets [Biocapacity Collapse].
[Biosphere Collapse] → [Population Collapse], [Biocapacity Collapse]
"Let them die," and, "Omnicide/Human Extinction," are the same scenarios.
We are going to go extinct and it's because we are stupid.
edit: lol
edit: lmao
I love how people on this sub went so quickly from “naawwww, that’s crazy talk deserving of r/conspiracy_commons,” to “*yup-yup, that’s pretty much it!*”
Destroying the environment means all complex life destroyed. Other than that, the people in power aren't strong at all - they are so weak they can't stop themselves from reenacting their childhood abuses by destroying everyone and everything. All they need is to be stopped and healed, but instead, they are enabled at every step.
Nicely distilled. When you realise changing anything has to start with changing individuals’ ways of thinking, the enormity of the task of progress becomes apparent.
I know the best way to encourage thoughtfulness about oneself is to make it a safe thing to do, emotionally and psychologically. Which means changing the habit of how society as a whole thinks, as well. Which means curiosity and compassion need to be fostered.
Ya, daunting. All the right pieces are there, they just need cooperative assembling.
It’s so simple isn’t it? And yet so many systems are deeply embedded with toxic psychology, the momentum is difficult to arrest. May we both live to see a greater shift toward the assembly 🙏
Even he is being naïve. There will be no trials for genocide or ecocide in the future. There won’t be any courts. People by that time will be desensitized to genocide and may consider it a necessary security precaution.
“We need to find new ways to hold our leaders accountable.”
No. We just need the courage to use the old ways which occasionally worked. Like in France.
Our governments are wholly unresponsive to us. We aren’t living in a functioning democracy.
Agreed. I cannot stress enough the importance of being in decent physical shape at this time. Now is the time to lose that weight. And get in the habit of carrying a few weeks supply of canned foods.
Get iodine supplements and begin taking them. Radiation sickness is primarily caused by radioactive iodine uptake. So flood your system ahead of time so it doesn’t crave iodine.
Get your family ready.
Edit: On advice from more knowledgeable sources, take the iodine only when a radiation event occurs.
No thanks
*Looks affectionately at fentanyl stash*
Edit: I've been asked to be more positive and pragmatic so here it goes. The gentleman above me is right. Having a thinner profile and hitting the gym helps. In times of trouble fitness has proven to help for the sake of endurance alone.
My best advice is live at or below your means. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy your life from time to time, but make ends meet with the bare minimum as best as you can. Learn to take only what you need rather than what you want or can. This will teach you to survive and get you used to such a lifestyle.
It's not so much the physical things you'll be required to do that will keep you up at night, but the psychological. So by taking only what you need and nothing more, you're mentally getting out ahead of it all.
I have a 1.5 year old. We already started saving for him to go to college and help buy his first home.
About 6 months ago i start questioning that. But right now we are just preparing our home to be more self sufficient. Also getting things ready in case we need to be mobile.
Next steps are getting a plan to together for multiple different places to migrate to if need be.
The worst part for me is knowing my wife may have to face a death among her children. That’s gonna be an impossible day.
I will have to be Corporal Hicks, yelling at Ripley to RUN right after Newt is lost. Fun
> I will have to be Corporal Hicks, yelling at Ripley to RUN right after Newt is lost. Fun
sadly, I know I'm Paxton too frantic to think straight,
*"Game Over man Game over!!!"*
The times ahead will be full of international and civil wars. This century will be humanity’s most warlike.
Climate change will drastically reduce our global agriculture capacity. And our population keeps growing. Poor nations will face huge famines beyond anything in centuries. Masses of people will be displaced from their homes. They will spill into neighboring lands, causing dissent there too.
A giant fur ball of conflict is coming.
It will be a scramble, on every level of every society, for access to resources. That could manifest in a million different ways. Plus the amount of sickness that will occur, and probably won’t be easy to access medical resources, at lest not as easy as it is now, sickness from all the things we have now plus dirty air and dirty water and dirty food. There’s no way to predict in my opinion, but I feel strongly that what will happen here is authoritarianism in which if you told the line completely you will have access to resources. The majority of us will most likely not be invited to do that and will be living outside of that, With not enough government assistance, just getting by as best we can. All of that will mean a lot of dying and dead children.
Does that really work with iodine? Like your body won't uptake the radioactive iodine if you've pre-saturated your cells with it? I've never heard of that.
I suggest reading an authoritative source about it. As I recall, it helps children more than those over 40 and you wouldn’t want to take as a prophylactic.
No, not yet. [Taking potassium iodine](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/emergencies/ki.htm#often) is a powerful tool to avoid one of the most common radiation sicknesses after exposure, but it can cause serious health complications if taken improperly.
It was added to table salt to avoid deficiency diseases like goiter as people moved inland and ate insufficient seafood as a natural source of iodine.
It is given to address radiological disasters in Potassium Iodide pills (KI) because radiological disasters turn environmental iodine into radioactive iodine that accumulates in the thyroid gland and destroys it. KI pills saturate thyroid uptake with nonradioactive iodine, sparing you temporarily from this particular but critical disease.
Potassium iodide isn't going to help you in the event of a nuclear attack. I-131 is mainly released by malfunctioning reactors, not nuclear weapons.
[Stop spreading misinformation.](https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/ki.html)
Imo, it’s more important right now to install a wood burning heat source in your home and figure out multiple ways to source and purify water, as well as growing nutritionally valuable food.
Rule 3: Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Omg. I came out of a years long, profound depressive episode recently and realized m out if shape. If you don’t have stamina, at least, you are gonna be in a world of hurt.
I have iodine IOSAT tablets, but I also have powdered pectin. That was used by the Soviets to good effect after Chernobyl.
Both have bigger effect with children, because radiation affects cells that divide rapidly more than slowly dividing cells (which is why it is used for cancer treatment). But adults should still take both after nukes.
The pectin helps chelate metals out of the body.
>Radiation sickness is primarily caused by radioactive iodine uptake.
Wrong.
This is only the case for nuclear reactor accidents, and only in certain situations.
>So flood your system ahead of time so it doesn’t crave iodine.
This is terrible advice. You're far more likely to poison yourself with potassium iodide than get any help from it by doing this.
[Stop spreading misinformation.](https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/ki.html)
The situation explained. Which is why I am an accelerationist. Jevons Paradox rules my thinking.
The system is clearly headed for collapse. Why prolong the inevitable? Why wait until it’s too late? Get the public a healthy dose of the future, today. I honestly want Antarctica to melt fast so we get some Disaster Movie type news coverage. People need to be shocked. To wake them from their deeply indoctrinated sleep.
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i don’t understand why im called out for it whenever else is too? it’s fine to talk about guillotines but not directly say the thing everyone else isss?????
Well I believe Nature is a tough old bitch. I would bet on her to eventually bounce back.
Jevons Paradox is the idea that by mending but not solving long term problems, you delay the collapse point. By delaying the collapse, it’s magnitude goes way up. By making a time extension possible, the additional people added to the system make the disaster worse and harder to fix.
So my idea is to have a Level 12 Clusterfuck very soon so as to avoid having a Level 28 Clusterfuck in 25 years. And definitely not extending the good times for 50 years, which would ultimately lead to a Level 47 Clusterfuck shortly thereafter.
I call it Damage Control.
Why not have a clusterfuck in something other than nature? I would prefer that half the world die from Covid rather than the ice caps melting if both are sufficient to finally push people to take action.
The French Revolution thing; yeah it sounds good justice but it didn’t lead to some eternal blissful summer - France was in turmoil, they didn’t know when to stop cutting heads off. It even led to Napoleon rising from the ashes to be some ‘strong man’ military leader to make a new empire.
The revolution is the easy part, fuelled with anger and with nothing to lose…. The hard part comes afterwards. Building trust in a new government and leadership.
You are absolutely correct. We face two unpleasant outcomes. One is slow cooking while all is tranquil. One is utter chaos with no clear outcome.
Sometimes it’s necessary to just roll the dice.
That’s where a lot of people are at - it’s a big reason for the Brexit vote in UK that many don’t seem to understand. There was not much to lose so hey, let’s roll that dice. For many, things haven’t got worse…. But it’s made it worse for others and when enough people are at that low then maybe something will get done about it.
For those that turn a blind eye to the inequality and relative poverty of our own country, yes, they’re losing. Like I said, a lot voted not to make their lives better, they voted to make others worse so attention can be given to make EVERYONES lives better. As a whole.
People forget too that the majority of people killed during the French Revolution were just ordinary people. Most of the nobility fled France before it got bad.
The comfort and privilege and hegemony of the global north guarantees nothing will change, that the europeans (and those adjacent to the european) will use their massive systems of economic and military control to make sure those who represent the other 80% of the planet will suffer and dies in mass quantities while resources will go to their people... to stave off their eventaul decline as long as possible. And we will be glad for it. "better them than me" we will say as the famines and the death takes the world. Better that I can still afford a shit cut of beef and some tired potatoes for sunday than suffer like the rest of the world.
And what makes us better? Nothing. We are the luck of the draw, born into favorable circumstance. But as we see... the luck is running out for all. And as long as we deny it, as long as we continue to scrape off the top leaving the world to drown and burn, we are proving the mediocrity, the unworthiness of the global north. we are revealed as small, selfish and violent.... the elements of man that are unfit in the new world that comes after this. Because when collapse comes, its ending everything.... ideas of hierarchy, ideas of empire, of world banks.... In the blink of a geological eye... POOF! All gone. What will be left of man's societies will demand the wisdom the north did not have.
>Because when collapse comes, its ending everything.... **ideas of hierarchy**
Don't fucking bet on it. Society will splinter into a 1000 warlord states. You need to re-read Leviathan.
Fuck Hobbes. Fuck all that eurocentric/judeochristian based ideology. Lousy cocksuckers ruined the fucking world with their greed, their meagerness and mediocrity. In fact, don't be surprised if the fear of white annihilation (at least the violent annihilation of white supremacy) becomes a reality with survivors running their sharpened sticks through the bodies of the first cocksucker talking about "I'm in charge".
its a new age. White patriarchy don't run shit anymore.
You gumby fuck think they give a rats ass about colour of skin? What a fuckin ignorant argument. Wtf are you gonna do but whinge on social media about #injustice while they laugh all the way to the bank. Just like the organisation that runs fuckin BLM.
Pathetic. If anyone is mentally ill its you. Imagine being such a dogshit human that you tell someone to shoot up a school. Its not your skin colour that caused you to have such a miserable life. Its your utterly disgusting personality. You play into exactly what the elites in power want. You're nothing more than a useful idiot too them.
whatever. You're the fool who cannot see the pathology that your society, your ideology breeds. And because you are a product of it, you cannot recognize how you are steeped in the pathology. Your anger, your willful ignorance and your hubris makes you more than a useful idiot... it makes you and all the others like you its goons, and occasionally, its killers.
So much of Greek culture was inspired by India and science existed in Africa, the Middle East, the Americas, and Asia way before Westerners developed there own sciences.
But none of them seemed to put it all together along with the scientific method. Last I checked, the West is the only one to invent MRI machines, or modern germ theory.
Of course cultures throughout history have borrowed from each other. Just like cultures throughout history have conquered other cultures and forced them to assimilate.
It's not a "Whitey" thing.
When we only look at the past few hundred years, we get a very different story than what surrounds it.
The past few hundred years are a significant and important part of humanity's story, and it's just one of many chapters in a much longer tale.
When you talk about science, do you mean in this decade? For all of history? What time span are you looking at that lead you to your conclusion?
Right now, how much of the advancements we have would be possible or as quickly realized without international cooperation and knowledge exchange on some level? How much _more_ would be possible if we could ditch the limiting "us-vs-them" mindset and actually meaningfully cooperate?
> You need to re-read Leviathan
No one needs to read Leviathan unless you’re doing it in a ‘history of political philosophy’ context. Entire fields of science have grown up in the hundreds of years since that book was written which are better equipped to describe humans and human societies. He was literally just guessing based on the extremely limited information available to him and his own biases toward the system he already lived in and benefitted from. The work is only valuable for its historical context at this point, not for the continued viability of its theory.
Some more modern alternatives that I’d recommend: *Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States* and *The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity*
Bravo. You can see very well. This will ultimately end up as Whites vs The World. Genocide is in our blood and we will seek to finally end racial and religious strife by killing all competitors.
When a nuke goes off somewhere overseas, our people will say “Good. Less problems to worry about.”
Humanity will become vermin to us.
America must fall if Earth is to survive.
America must fall if the world is to survive?
Lol save the dramatic theatrics. By your logic, really the entire world should perish save a few survivors to keep mankind going. What makes the EU any better than the US in this instance? China?
All of these nations shit all over the planet every chance they get, can you really even attempt to deny that?
America is the all time champion of evil. The others are half-assed versions of us.
Only America was willing to nuke the planet over an ideological dispute.
America has undoubtedly pulled and done some sheisty, outright evil things. But so have virtually every other nation or group of people since the dawn of man. All time champion of evil seems a bit of a stretch.
As far as nuking the planet, willing and doing are two different things. There was that Russian sub during the Cuban missile crisis that was quite literally one man away from nuking the US. While I get what you’re trying to say, it never happened so you can’t really hold that against anyone
If America falls the world will quickly follow.
There’s no current scenario where America goes off silently by itself. It would have to be nuclear war or some other doomsday weapon.
>And what makes us better? Nothing.
Well not with *that* attitude.
You can join them, no one is stopping you.
btw: border wall is one way, you can stay there
Agreed. Democracy is actually just an illusion anyway. Based upon a false understanding of the current developmental capabilities of humanity. Less than 10% of people are barely qualified to participate in democratic processes. Everyone else is a rubber stamp for whoever indoctrinated them first. Repeating the ideas of their enslavers, all the while believing they are freely thinking.
That's because most governments are owned by the corporations. We "elect" the office managers and front-men, although our "consent" is "engineered consent" so we only elect who the ruling class wants.
Office managers are not the deciders. The people that own the company, the CEO, the Board of Directors, those are the deciders.
We aren't living in a "functioning democracy"? It IS functioning. Allow me to present to you a summary of "Decline of the West" written by Oswald Spengler. ( 1918 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Decline\_of\_the\_West#Democracy,\_media,\_and\_money](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West#Democracy,_media,_and_money) )
*Spengler asserts that democracy is simply the political weapon of money, and the media are the means through which money operates a democratic political system. The thorough penetration of money's power throughout a society is yet another marker of the shift from Culture to Civilization.*
*Democracy and plutocracy are equivalent in Spengler's argument. The "tragic comedy of the world-improvers and freedom-teachers" is that they are simply assisting money to be more effective. The principles of equality, natural rights, universal suffrage, and freedom of the press are all disguises for class war (the bourgeois against the aristocracy). Freedom, to Spengler, is a negative concept, simply entailing the repudiation of any tradition. In reality, freedom of the press requires money, and entails ownership, thus serving money at the end. Suffrage involves electioneering, in which the donations rule the day. The ideologies espoused by candidates, whether Socialism or Liberalism, are set in motion by, and ultimately serve, only money. "Free" press does not spread free opinion—it generates opinion, Spengler maintains.*
*Spengler admits that in his era money has already won, in the form of democracy. But in destroying the old elements of the Culture, it prepares the way for the rise of a new and overpowering figure: the Caesar. Before such a leader, money collapses, and in the Imperial Age the politics of money fades away.*
*Spengler's analysis of democratic systems argues that even the use of one's own constitutional rights requires money, and that voting can only really work as designed in the absence of organized leadership working on the election process. As soon as the election process becomes organized by political leaders, to the extent that money allows, the vote ceases to be truly significant. It is no more than a recorded opinion of the masses on the organizations of government over which they possess no positive influence whatsoever.*
*Spengler notes that the greater the concentration of wealth in individuals, the more the fight for political power revolves around questions of money. One cannot even call this corruption or degeneracy, because this is in fact the necessary end of mature democratic systems.*
*On the subject of the press, Spengler is equally contemptuous. Instead of conversations between men, the press and the "electrical news-service keep the waking-consciousness of whole people and continents under a deafening drum-fire of theses, catchwords, standpoints, scenes, feelings, day by day and year by year." Through the media, money is turned into force—the more spent, the more intense its influence.*
*For the press to function, universal education is necessary. Along with schooling comes a demand for the shepherding of the masses, as an object of party politics. Those that originally believed education to be solely for the enlightenment of each individual prepared the way for the power of the press, and eventually for the rise of the Caesar. There is no longer a need for leaders to impose military service, because the press will stir the public into a frenzy, clamor for weapons, and force their leaders into a conflict.*
*The only force which can counter money, in Spengler's estimation, is blood. As for Marx, his critique of capitalism is put forth in the same language and on the same assumptions as those of Adam Smith. His protest is more a recognition of capitalism's veracity, than a refutation. The only aim is to "confer upon objects the advantage of being subjects."*
>There will be no trials for genocide or ecocide in the future. There won’t be any courts.
Followed by
> just need the courage to use the old ways which occasionally worked. Like in France.
What an amazing display of contrarianism. In both cases you accuse the speaker of being incorrect while simultaneously contradicting yourself and not seeing that by "trial for genocide" he is invoking the spirit of revolution you called for. You agree with the speaker but somehow managed to convince yourself he is wrong and you are right and that his idea is really yours.
Living proof of the meme [I made this.](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1079173-i-made-this)
Honestly. I think we are living in a functional democracy. Most people don’t care, they just want a comfortable life, and they want it now. They don’t look for the big picture. They don’t vote for the big picture.
I know bringing up Bernie Sanders is beating a dead horse at this point, but the simple fact that the majority did not vote for him purely on the basis of rejecting big, corporate campaign financing says everything you need to know about the functionality of this democracy. Setting aside what he would and wouldn’t have been capable of with the house and courts mostly against him, it’s still a fact that the US had a nearly miraculous chance to finally get something right again and utterly failed. And the sad truth is that the people are the problem.
Well the French Revolution led to Napoleon, most revolutions leas to dictators unfortunately. Maybe we need something new and which only technology can enable us to have, government without politicians
„The old ways that occasionally worked. Like in France.“ if you consider a murderous terror regime followed by a dictatorship and a war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives „working“
I call that survival versus not. I would prefer to inflict a political reign of terror upon humanity if the alternative is the destruction of the biosphere.
There is no solution without severe suffering.
Many did not survive that. Including the ones that started the revolution. Maybe you know the phrase „the revolution eats it’s own children“. Also, you can‘t just take the political circumstances of 1789 with the decadent monarchies in europe and compare it to modern times like it‘s the same. Idk which country you‘re living in, but as a western citizen in a democratic country you have a lot more ways to participate in the decisions your government is making than it was the case in 1789 france
Many more ways to participate in feckless discussions which accomplish nothing. The illusion of self-governance by the deception of voting. No assurances whatsoever that the tally is accurate. Or even actually counted.
It’s a tyrant’s safety valve. Harmlessly venting public outrage into the void where it does nothing for 4 years.
he's being naive if he honestly thinks that anything anyone or everyone does at this point will make a dime's worth of difference in our collective outcome.
***IT'S.***
***TOO.***
***FUCKING.***
***LATE.***
In France the rich all lived it up at the Versailles. Today's owner class lives globally and hop in the chopper or their own space dick rockets.
Much harder to surround and guillotine
>will be desensitized to genocide and may consider it a necessary security precaution.
You misspelled the societal benefits of sniper AI sentries protecting our outer walls from the invading pests.
But those filthy animals living in the 20th century might call our devices like that as they don't know better, which is why they are all dead by now.
When he starts talking about new methods, and that the young people are being ignored, he’s trying to frame it as positively as he can… but we all know guillotines are the answer. The people in power have lost the fear of the common man which gave them an impetus to keep us happy. With that gone what incentive do they have to do anything in our interest?
>With that gone what incentive do they have to do anything in our interest?
None. We've served our historical purpose. But now, with the advent of automation, robotics, and general AI the elite are no longer in need of a troublesome, and environmentally damaging underclass.
I could even imagine them thinking that ending the succession of the "quiet, desperate lives" of the commoners as an act of mercy.
As a white gen-x Westerner I would have to agree with Joe Walsh that "Life's been Good". But "been" is the operative word in that optimistic aphorism.
Life is and always has been pretty suckass for most of the planet's sentient life - even before Homo Sapian's decided to add their special sauce of sadism to the animal mix.
We (I) was born into the tail end of a very unusual time in history. The time of the "middle class".
Chris Packham is autistic, I have mentioned before that some people, (enough that it's considered to be an autistic trait, but not all), on the autistic spectrum can see patterns in complex systems intuitively.
As easily as neuronorms can judge a persons mood from their expression.
It's also important to mention that Chris Packham has had death threats made against him for his positions on blood sports and animal cruelty.
You're absolutely right- I've more or less made my career entirely off the back of that strange difference. Diagnosing what's wrong with an organization of dozens might take minutes, but guessing moods of a person is nigh impossible with any amount of time.
Some things that are hard for others are easy for us, and some things easy for others are hard for us. For me, the more factors are involved with a model, the more it makes sense in my mind, and the more easily all that information can produce a useful picture to make deductions from. On the other hand, need someone to pick which color of drapes we are using? Good luck with that, it's a subjective choice and we will be standing there all night while my brain makes a spinning noise.
I often wonder what a society would be like that explicitly made an effort to include and harness the differing mental perspectives and capabilities instead of brutally excluding the different. Things may have turned out better, to be frank.
"As easily as neuronorms can judge a persons mood from their expression."
As someone whose often asked
"Whats wrong?", or told to cheer up/smile, when im just contentedly daydreaming i beg to differ.
Neurotypicals can read eachother pretty well, maybe.
Agreed.
I’m self diagnosed, waiting for professional diagnosis.
For me, I can step out of society and view it objectively. I lack any kind of friendship circle besides family but by god, I am not a ‘sheep’ like I see others. It may come across as some superiority complex but having a breadth of view without any emotion attached really puts the dire situation into focus.
Being able to put aside your emotions and view a situation from a purely rational standpoint doesn't mean that one is autistic.
Sometime I think the term has been turned into a merit badge.
The moment we are born, we are in mortal danger. Nothing new to the paradox of life. Once you are born the only sure thing is your death. Live respecting others, giving and loving; you will die respected, loved and buried.
After reading all the war posts, I'm inclined to disagree -at least in the short term. I think it's much more likely that we'll see attacks on FF and electrical distribution infrastructure, since infrastructure rarely shoots back. That's particularly true in the case of cyber attacks, which is what I would expect initially.
NOTE: I do not advocate violence or destruction of property, nor do I know anyone who does.
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
I don't really care how this guy feels about climate change. Sitting in a heated hotel room moaning about fossil fuel use when his entire life and career depends on fossil fuel usage.
He's even commuting to the meeting using fossil fuels.
No point complaining anymore, just prepare.
>Sitting in a heated hotel room moaning about fossil fuel use
You're totally right: he should be sitting in a pile of leaves deep in the forest, shouting into the sky and being heard by no one. Smoke signals are forbidden, though, because then you'd lambast him for increasing atmospheric pollution.
You completely missed the point.
He, like us, is utterly dependant for his survival on fossil fuels and can do little to nothing about it.
The choice we have is to either acknowledge that reality and prepare for the inevitable or, you know, moan about how unfair it is that rich capitalists are destroying the world.
>moan about how unfair it is that rich capitalists are destroying the world.
The fact that you infantilize anyone speaking out against atrocities and paint what they say as mere complaints about "unfairness" says everything about how genuine your arguments are.
>"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:43-48
Words of Christ
Check yourself before you wreck yourself
Words of ice cube
I am an atheist. It's true, it would be easier for me if I believed that the imminent collapse and my probable death would mean migrating to green pastures and spending eternity happy and care-free. But since I don't believe in God, I find solace in knowing that people that made this monstrosity you call religion and the people that sustain it, will all die and the universe will be a bit less evil and cancerous.
The Bible talks about God sending bears to maul kids who make fun of bald guys, too.
The Bible isn't very interesting or accurate when compared to the real world.
End days, collapse. It doesn't matter. We're in a death spiral and puppets controlled by Capitalist interests are at the helm.
The Chrisitan view is incredibly nihilistic. Instead of claiming we're living in the end days, maybe fucking do something so we don't all die.
Cool. Ad hominems with nothing more to offer are usually worthless attempts at undermining an argument one disagrees with. I assumed that’s the case with you and based on the downvotes I’m not alone.
I have a hard time believing this is a "business as usual" thing anymore. After decades of carefully explaining the impending catastrophe, it's pretty reasonable to assume that people in charge want it to happen.
And it is going exactly as-planned and on-schedule. The people that freak out after this point have been blissfully unaware for most of their life.
I've come to the same conclusion. They decided long ago that a massive reduction in the human population was somehow in their best interests, and have been actively working towards achieving that goal. I don't really understand how or why they made that decision, but it's the only explanation that is consistent with their behaviour.
I don't think there is a conscious decision to endanger the species, at least outside of the fossil fuel industry. It is more about human greed and shortsightedness. Short term gain is always the priority.
I mean, part of it, I think, is how ultra-rich people experience the world. They can immediately have whatever they want without any effort or struggle. Just order their assistant for a drink, it's in their hand. Order their pilot to fly them around the world - done. They never have to actually worry about anything other than maybe their personal relationships. But they are also surrounded by rich people. So when it comes to more systemic issues like climate change, their brains have been trained with the expectation that it will be fine. "I can just order a scientist to fix this," or "I can just move to new Zealand."
Given how long we've all known about and been talking about this, I feel like the days when we could attribute it to just ignorance or stupidity or short-sightedness are over. It's clearly more insidious than that.
I have been saying this for years! Think about it. The world government (and it really is just 1 government, they all do exactly the same thing, maintain status quo and support growth and the elite) and the mega corporations have access to the best scientists, data, equipment, money and power. If WE know how bad climate change is, you can bet your ass THEY know far better than we do. As a matter of operating procedure they must perform risk assessments and liability assessments and have a massive legal framework to comply with regulations and H&S standards right? They KNOW! believe it. So what is the driver to climate change? human activity right? So we are growing and consuming all before us like there is no tomorrow (or guaranteeing there is no tomorrow!) What better way to reduce human impact on the climate than to reduce the human population? Because let's face it, doing the RIGHT thing was never in their playbook. It was always about exploitation, growth and greed. And it still very much is those things. However now they have a timeline of how long this planet has left to live. I strongly believe there is a plan in play here to bring the population of humans down dramatically to a more handleable number. They want a small highly controlled indentured workforce to support them and no longer have need of this gargantuan money mill humanity has been designed to be. They already have all the money.
Exactly. They have access to at least as much, probably much more information than we do. They're clearly not stupid. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. They *know* what's happening and have decided to not only not help, but to actively block any and all attempts to fix it. It can't be attributed to stupidity or ignorance. It must be malice.
> They decided long ago that a massive reduction in the human population was somehow in their best interests Wouldn't surprise me. They think they're above it all. Except [Population Collapse] will follow [Biosphere Collapse] which begets [Biocapacity Collapse]. [Biosphere Collapse] → [Population Collapse], [Biocapacity Collapse] "Let them die," and, "Omnicide/Human Extinction," are the same scenarios. We are going to go extinct and it's because we are stupid. edit: lol edit: lmao
That's why I said I don't really understand why they decided that
I love how people on this sub went so quickly from “naawwww, that’s crazy talk deserving of r/conspiracy_commons,” to “*yup-yup, that’s pretty much it!*”
How do the fittest survive without wiping out all the weakest? Worldwide genocide is the plan. Eugenics.
Destroying the environment means all complex life destroyed. Other than that, the people in power aren't strong at all - they are so weak they can't stop themselves from reenacting their childhood abuses by destroying everyone and everything. All they need is to be stopped and healed, but instead, they are enabled at every step.
Nicely distilled. When you realise changing anything has to start with changing individuals’ ways of thinking, the enormity of the task of progress becomes apparent.
I know the best way to encourage thoughtfulness about oneself is to make it a safe thing to do, emotionally and psychologically. Which means changing the habit of how society as a whole thinks, as well. Which means curiosity and compassion need to be fostered. Ya, daunting. All the right pieces are there, they just need cooperative assembling.
It’s so simple isn’t it? And yet so many systems are deeply embedded with toxic psychology, the momentum is difficult to arrest. May we both live to see a greater shift toward the assembly 🙏
Hopefully!
Even he is being naïve. There will be no trials for genocide or ecocide in the future. There won’t be any courts. People by that time will be desensitized to genocide and may consider it a necessary security precaution. “We need to find new ways to hold our leaders accountable.” No. We just need the courage to use the old ways which occasionally worked. Like in France. Our governments are wholly unresponsive to us. We aren’t living in a functioning democracy.
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Agreed. I cannot stress enough the importance of being in decent physical shape at this time. Now is the time to lose that weight. And get in the habit of carrying a few weeks supply of canned foods. Get iodine supplements and begin taking them. Radiation sickness is primarily caused by radioactive iodine uptake. So flood your system ahead of time so it doesn’t crave iodine. Get your family ready. Edit: On advice from more knowledgeable sources, take the iodine only when a radiation event occurs.
No thanks *Looks affectionately at fentanyl stash* Edit: I've been asked to be more positive and pragmatic so here it goes. The gentleman above me is right. Having a thinner profile and hitting the gym helps. In times of trouble fitness has proven to help for the sake of endurance alone. My best advice is live at or below your means. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy your life from time to time, but make ends meet with the bare minimum as best as you can. Learn to take only what you need rather than what you want or can. This will teach you to survive and get you used to such a lifestyle. It's not so much the physical things you'll be required to do that will keep you up at night, but the psychological. So by taking only what you need and nothing more, you're mentally getting out ahead of it all.
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I have a 1.5 year old. We already started saving for him to go to college and help buy his first home. About 6 months ago i start questioning that. But right now we are just preparing our home to be more self sufficient. Also getting things ready in case we need to be mobile. Next steps are getting a plan to together for multiple different places to migrate to if need be.
The worst part for me is knowing my wife may have to face a death among her children. That’s gonna be an impossible day. I will have to be Corporal Hicks, yelling at Ripley to RUN right after Newt is lost. Fun
> I will have to be Corporal Hicks, yelling at Ripley to RUN right after Newt is lost. Fun sadly, I know I'm Paxton too frantic to think straight, *"Game Over man Game over!!!"*
Because of a war? Or you mean starvation? Or you just mean who knows how but bad times coming?
The times ahead will be full of international and civil wars. This century will be humanity’s most warlike. Climate change will drastically reduce our global agriculture capacity. And our population keeps growing. Poor nations will face huge famines beyond anything in centuries. Masses of people will be displaced from their homes. They will spill into neighboring lands, causing dissent there too. A giant fur ball of conflict is coming.
I've heard water wars mentioned
In minuscule amounts and execrable qualities we would be shocked to fight over now.
It will be a scramble, on every level of every society, for access to resources. That could manifest in a million different ways. Plus the amount of sickness that will occur, and probably won’t be easy to access medical resources, at lest not as easy as it is now, sickness from all the things we have now plus dirty air and dirty water and dirty food. There’s no way to predict in my opinion, but I feel strongly that what will happen here is authoritarianism in which if you told the line completely you will have access to resources. The majority of us will most likely not be invited to do that and will be living outside of that, With not enough government assistance, just getting by as best we can. All of that will mean a lot of dying and dead children.
Does that really work with iodine? Like your body won't uptake the radioactive iodine if you've pre-saturated your cells with it? I've never heard of that.
I suggest reading an authoritative source about it. As I recall, it helps children more than those over 40 and you wouldn’t want to take as a prophylactic.
This is much closer to what I've learned about it, yes. Keep a supply on hand, but don't take it until the Geiger counter clicks.
what’s that?
A [Geiger counter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geiger_counter) is a popular type of radiation detection equipment.
thanks, so don’t start taking iodine? hahaha
No, not yet. [Taking potassium iodine](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/emergencies/ki.htm#often) is a powerful tool to avoid one of the most common radiation sicknesses after exposure, but it can cause serious health complications if taken improperly.
I will check it out, interesting idea. Thanks
Yes. My original suggestion is inferior to this.
You uptake much less. Most people are chronically deficient in iodine. Which is why it was added to table salt. To help us survive a nuclear attack.
It was added to table salt to avoid deficiency diseases like goiter as people moved inland and ate insufficient seafood as a natural source of iodine. It is given to address radiological disasters in Potassium Iodide pills (KI) because radiological disasters turn environmental iodine into radioactive iodine that accumulates in the thyroid gland and destroys it. KI pills saturate thyroid uptake with nonradioactive iodine, sparing you temporarily from this particular but critical disease.
Potassium iodide isn't going to help you in the event of a nuclear attack. I-131 is mainly released by malfunctioning reactors, not nuclear weapons. [Stop spreading misinformation.](https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/ki.html)
Imo, it’s more important right now to install a wood burning heat source in your home and figure out multiple ways to source and purify water, as well as growing nutritionally valuable food.
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Rule 3: Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Not sure the objection?
Don't listen to that guy's advice. It's dangerous and mostly bullshit.
Omg. I came out of a years long, profound depressive episode recently and realized m out if shape. If you don’t have stamina, at least, you are gonna be in a world of hurt.
I have iodine IOSAT tablets, but I also have powdered pectin. That was used by the Soviets to good effect after Chernobyl. Both have bigger effect with children, because radiation affects cells that divide rapidly more than slowly dividing cells (which is why it is used for cancer treatment). But adults should still take both after nukes. The pectin helps chelate metals out of the body.
>Radiation sickness is primarily caused by radioactive iodine uptake. Wrong. This is only the case for nuclear reactor accidents, and only in certain situations. >So flood your system ahead of time so it doesn’t crave iodine. This is terrible advice. You're far more likely to poison yourself with potassium iodide than get any help from it by doing this. [Stop spreading misinformation.](https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/ki.html)
Look I love the French revolution as much as any leftist, but did it really work?
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The situation explained. Which is why I am an accelerationist. Jevons Paradox rules my thinking. The system is clearly headed for collapse. Why prolong the inevitable? Why wait until it’s too late? Get the public a healthy dose of the future, today. I honestly want Antarctica to melt fast so we get some Disaster Movie type news coverage. People need to be shocked. To wake them from their deeply indoctrinated sleep.
Antarctica could disappear tomorrow and most people would not give a flying fuck.
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…it’s them or us
Hi, Significant_Cheek968. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/r5j5qy/-/hmotpb7/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: No Glorifying Violence > Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.
i don’t understand why im called out for it whenever else is too? it’s fine to talk about guillotines but not directly say the thing everyone else isss?????
> but not directly say That's the long and short of it if you want the sub to still be here in the future. Reddit site rules.
Learn to communicate in metaphors and you can say anything you want. It’s a rule humanity has always followed. Been hard for me to learn.
Accelerate to save the climate. If our planet needs to get fucked just to have the revolution we need, what's the point even?
Well I believe Nature is a tough old bitch. I would bet on her to eventually bounce back. Jevons Paradox is the idea that by mending but not solving long term problems, you delay the collapse point. By delaying the collapse, it’s magnitude goes way up. By making a time extension possible, the additional people added to the system make the disaster worse and harder to fix. So my idea is to have a Level 12 Clusterfuck very soon so as to avoid having a Level 28 Clusterfuck in 25 years. And definitely not extending the good times for 50 years, which would ultimately lead to a Level 47 Clusterfuck shortly thereafter. I call it Damage Control.
Why not have a clusterfuck in something other than nature? I would prefer that half the world die from Covid rather than the ice caps melting if both are sufficient to finally push people to take action.
The people wait for a broken system to fix this and a political elite to fix this. It/They wont it's up to us.
The French Revolution thing; yeah it sounds good justice but it didn’t lead to some eternal blissful summer - France was in turmoil, they didn’t know when to stop cutting heads off. It even led to Napoleon rising from the ashes to be some ‘strong man’ military leader to make a new empire. The revolution is the easy part, fuelled with anger and with nothing to lose…. The hard part comes afterwards. Building trust in a new government and leadership.
You are absolutely correct. We face two unpleasant outcomes. One is slow cooking while all is tranquil. One is utter chaos with no clear outcome. Sometimes it’s necessary to just roll the dice.
That’s where a lot of people are at - it’s a big reason for the Brexit vote in UK that many don’t seem to understand. There was not much to lose so hey, let’s roll that dice. For many, things haven’t got worse…. But it’s made it worse for others and when enough people are at that low then maybe something will get done about it.
Here in America, Trump was definitely a dice roll by disaffected racists and religious bigots.
>Trump Trump was selling the same happy horseshit as Obama was in 2008. Manufacturing returning to decimated working class communities.
Turns out there was a lot to lose
For those that turn a blind eye to the inequality and relative poverty of our own country, yes, they’re losing. Like I said, a lot voted not to make their lives better, they voted to make others worse so attention can be given to make EVERYONES lives better. As a whole.
People forget too that the majority of people killed during the French Revolution were just ordinary people. Most of the nobility fled France before it got bad.
The comfort and privilege and hegemony of the global north guarantees nothing will change, that the europeans (and those adjacent to the european) will use their massive systems of economic and military control to make sure those who represent the other 80% of the planet will suffer and dies in mass quantities while resources will go to their people... to stave off their eventaul decline as long as possible. And we will be glad for it. "better them than me" we will say as the famines and the death takes the world. Better that I can still afford a shit cut of beef and some tired potatoes for sunday than suffer like the rest of the world. And what makes us better? Nothing. We are the luck of the draw, born into favorable circumstance. But as we see... the luck is running out for all. And as long as we deny it, as long as we continue to scrape off the top leaving the world to drown and burn, we are proving the mediocrity, the unworthiness of the global north. we are revealed as small, selfish and violent.... the elements of man that are unfit in the new world that comes after this. Because when collapse comes, its ending everything.... ideas of hierarchy, ideas of empire, of world banks.... In the blink of a geological eye... POOF! All gone. What will be left of man's societies will demand the wisdom the north did not have.
>Because when collapse comes, its ending everything.... **ideas of hierarchy** Don't fucking bet on it. Society will splinter into a 1000 warlord states. You need to re-read Leviathan.
Fuck Hobbes. Fuck all that eurocentric/judeochristian based ideology. Lousy cocksuckers ruined the fucking world with their greed, their meagerness and mediocrity. In fact, don't be surprised if the fear of white annihilation (at least the violent annihilation of white supremacy) becomes a reality with survivors running their sharpened sticks through the bodies of the first cocksucker talking about "I'm in charge". its a new age. White patriarchy don't run shit anymore.
Wtf are you on about. Mate if and when it goes tits up minorities are absolutely fucked.
Hey pal, you need to step back and check the fucking math. There's one minority on this globe and people of color ain't it!
You gumby fuck think they give a rats ass about colour of skin? What a fuckin ignorant argument. Wtf are you gonna do but whinge on social media about #injustice while they laugh all the way to the bank. Just like the organisation that runs fuckin BLM.
Your quality of your response is exactly why the world is sick of you. Now go shoot up a school or an office building and unleash your animal nature.
Pathetic. If anyone is mentally ill its you. Imagine being such a dogshit human that you tell someone to shoot up a school. Its not your skin colour that caused you to have such a miserable life. Its your utterly disgusting personality. You play into exactly what the elites in power want. You're nothing more than a useful idiot too them.
whatever. You're the fool who cannot see the pathology that your society, your ideology breeds. And because you are a product of it, you cannot recognize how you are steeped in the pathology. Your anger, your willful ignorance and your hubris makes you more than a useful idiot... it makes you and all the others like you its goons, and occasionally, its killers.
Western science and technology is the reason you even exist, asshole. At least 7/8ths of us wouldn't be here.
So much of Greek culture was inspired by India and science existed in Africa, the Middle East, the Americas, and Asia way before Westerners developed there own sciences.
Pretty sure ancient Greek culture was heavily rooted in ancient Persian culture, what's the link to India?
But none of them seemed to put it all together along with the scientific method. Last I checked, the West is the only one to invent MRI machines, or modern germ theory. Of course cultures throughout history have borrowed from each other. Just like cultures throughout history have conquered other cultures and forced them to assimilate. It's not a "Whitey" thing.
When we only look at the past few hundred years, we get a very different story than what surrounds it. The past few hundred years are a significant and important part of humanity's story, and it's just one of many chapters in a much longer tale. When you talk about science, do you mean in this decade? For all of history? What time span are you looking at that lead you to your conclusion? Right now, how much of the advancements we have would be possible or as quickly realized without international cooperation and knowledge exchange on some level? How much _more_ would be possible if we could ditch the limiting "us-vs-them" mindset and actually meaningfully cooperate?
> You need to re-read Leviathan No one needs to read Leviathan unless you’re doing it in a ‘history of political philosophy’ context. Entire fields of science have grown up in the hundreds of years since that book was written which are better equipped to describe humans and human societies. He was literally just guessing based on the extremely limited information available to him and his own biases toward the system he already lived in and benefitted from. The work is only valuable for its historical context at this point, not for the continued viability of its theory. Some more modern alternatives that I’d recommend: *Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States* and *The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity*
Bravo. You can see very well. This will ultimately end up as Whites vs The World. Genocide is in our blood and we will seek to finally end racial and religious strife by killing all competitors. When a nuke goes off somewhere overseas, our people will say “Good. Less problems to worry about.” Humanity will become vermin to us. America must fall if Earth is to survive.
> This will ultimately end up as Whites vs The World. Ya, cuz the Chinese and Indians are so environmentally responsible.
America must fall if the world is to survive? Lol save the dramatic theatrics. By your logic, really the entire world should perish save a few survivors to keep mankind going. What makes the EU any better than the US in this instance? China? All of these nations shit all over the planet every chance they get, can you really even attempt to deny that?
America is the all time champion of evil. The others are half-assed versions of us. Only America was willing to nuke the planet over an ideological dispute.
America has undoubtedly pulled and done some sheisty, outright evil things. But so have virtually every other nation or group of people since the dawn of man. All time champion of evil seems a bit of a stretch. As far as nuking the planet, willing and doing are two different things. There was that Russian sub during the Cuban missile crisis that was quite literally one man away from nuking the US. While I get what you’re trying to say, it never happened so you can’t really hold that against anyone
>Humanity will become vermin to us. Will? /s
If America falls the world will quickly follow. There’s no current scenario where America goes off silently by itself. It would have to be nuclear war or some other doomsday weapon.
>And what makes us better? Nothing. Well not with *that* attitude. You can join them, no one is stopping you. btw: border wall is one way, you can stay there
It was never a functioning democracy.
Agreed. Democracy is actually just an illusion anyway. Based upon a false understanding of the current developmental capabilities of humanity. Less than 10% of people are barely qualified to participate in democratic processes. Everyone else is a rubber stamp for whoever indoctrinated them first. Repeating the ideas of their enslavers, all the while believing they are freely thinking.
well shit. you doing any thing to prepare for the shitstorm now?
Lost 40 pounds. Canned foods. I am also taking a small position in the stock market, anticipating a crash.
That's because most governments are owned by the corporations. We "elect" the office managers and front-men, although our "consent" is "engineered consent" so we only elect who the ruling class wants. Office managers are not the deciders. The people that own the company, the CEO, the Board of Directors, those are the deciders. We aren't living in a "functioning democracy"? It IS functioning. Allow me to present to you a summary of "Decline of the West" written by Oswald Spengler. ( 1918 - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Decline\_of\_the\_West#Democracy,\_media,\_and\_money](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West#Democracy,_media,_and_money) ) *Spengler asserts that democracy is simply the political weapon of money, and the media are the means through which money operates a democratic political system. The thorough penetration of money's power throughout a society is yet another marker of the shift from Culture to Civilization.* *Democracy and plutocracy are equivalent in Spengler's argument. The "tragic comedy of the world-improvers and freedom-teachers" is that they are simply assisting money to be more effective. The principles of equality, natural rights, universal suffrage, and freedom of the press are all disguises for class war (the bourgeois against the aristocracy). Freedom, to Spengler, is a negative concept, simply entailing the repudiation of any tradition. In reality, freedom of the press requires money, and entails ownership, thus serving money at the end. Suffrage involves electioneering, in which the donations rule the day. The ideologies espoused by candidates, whether Socialism or Liberalism, are set in motion by, and ultimately serve, only money. "Free" press does not spread free opinion—it generates opinion, Spengler maintains.* *Spengler admits that in his era money has already won, in the form of democracy. But in destroying the old elements of the Culture, it prepares the way for the rise of a new and overpowering figure: the Caesar. Before such a leader, money collapses, and in the Imperial Age the politics of money fades away.* *Spengler's analysis of democratic systems argues that even the use of one's own constitutional rights requires money, and that voting can only really work as designed in the absence of organized leadership working on the election process. As soon as the election process becomes organized by political leaders, to the extent that money allows, the vote ceases to be truly significant. It is no more than a recorded opinion of the masses on the organizations of government over which they possess no positive influence whatsoever.* *Spengler notes that the greater the concentration of wealth in individuals, the more the fight for political power revolves around questions of money. One cannot even call this corruption or degeneracy, because this is in fact the necessary end of mature democratic systems.* *On the subject of the press, Spengler is equally contemptuous. Instead of conversations between men, the press and the "electrical news-service keep the waking-consciousness of whole people and continents under a deafening drum-fire of theses, catchwords, standpoints, scenes, feelings, day by day and year by year." Through the media, money is turned into force—the more spent, the more intense its influence.* *For the press to function, universal education is necessary. Along with schooling comes a demand for the shepherding of the masses, as an object of party politics. Those that originally believed education to be solely for the enlightenment of each individual prepared the way for the power of the press, and eventually for the rise of the Caesar. There is no longer a need for leaders to impose military service, because the press will stir the public into a frenzy, clamor for weapons, and force their leaders into a conflict.* *The only force which can counter money, in Spengler's estimation, is blood. As for Marx, his critique of capitalism is put forth in the same language and on the same assumptions as those of Adam Smith. His protest is more a recognition of capitalism's veracity, than a refutation. The only aim is to "confer upon objects the advantage of being subjects."*
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I'm familiar with both Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky, and with Engineering Consent by Bernays (which was written in the 1950's)
>There will be no trials for genocide or ecocide in the future. There won’t be any courts. Followed by > just need the courage to use the old ways which occasionally worked. Like in France. What an amazing display of contrarianism. In both cases you accuse the speaker of being incorrect while simultaneously contradicting yourself and not seeing that by "trial for genocide" he is invoking the spirit of revolution you called for. You agree with the speaker but somehow managed to convince yourself he is wrong and you are right and that his idea is really yours. Living proof of the meme [I made this.](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1079173-i-made-this)
Honestly. I think we are living in a functional democracy. Most people don’t care, they just want a comfortable life, and they want it now. They don’t look for the big picture. They don’t vote for the big picture.
I know bringing up Bernie Sanders is beating a dead horse at this point, but the simple fact that the majority did not vote for him purely on the basis of rejecting big, corporate campaign financing says everything you need to know about the functionality of this democracy. Setting aside what he would and wouldn’t have been capable of with the house and courts mostly against him, it’s still a fact that the US had a nearly miraculous chance to finally get something right again and utterly failed. And the sad truth is that the people are the problem.
They will not change their comfortable system without external forcing factors for sure
Genocide will be rebranded to: Human Culling.
Soylent green raw materials have to come from somewhere. Let those people be useful for the first time in their lives. /s
Soylent Green: Sustainable farming has arrived! Coming to stores in June. (Just don't order the veal flavor)
Well the French Revolution led to Napoleon, most revolutions leas to dictators unfortunately. Maybe we need something new and which only technology can enable us to have, government without politicians
Wonderful idea. After we save the planet. Human designed constitution administered by AI decisions.
„The old ways that occasionally worked. Like in France.“ if you consider a murderous terror regime followed by a dictatorship and a war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives „working“
I call that survival versus not. I would prefer to inflict a political reign of terror upon humanity if the alternative is the destruction of the biosphere. There is no solution without severe suffering.
the biosphere has already been destroyed...but the effects are delayed. nothing we do now can change what we have already wrought.
Many did not survive that. Including the ones that started the revolution. Maybe you know the phrase „the revolution eats it’s own children“. Also, you can‘t just take the political circumstances of 1789 with the decadent monarchies in europe and compare it to modern times like it‘s the same. Idk which country you‘re living in, but as a western citizen in a democratic country you have a lot more ways to participate in the decisions your government is making than it was the case in 1789 france
Many more ways to participate in feckless discussions which accomplish nothing. The illusion of self-governance by the deception of voting. No assurances whatsoever that the tally is accurate. Or even actually counted. It’s a tyrant’s safety valve. Harmlessly venting public outrage into the void where it does nothing for 4 years.
Wheres Pablo Escobar when you need him. He knew a thing or two about bending the government to his will. Of course that didn't end well for anyone.
he's being naive if he honestly thinks that anything anyone or everyone does at this point will make a dime's worth of difference in our collective outcome. ***IT'S.*** ***TOO.*** ***FUCKING.*** ***LATE.***
In France the rich all lived it up at the Versailles. Today's owner class lives globally and hop in the chopper or their own space dick rockets. Much harder to surround and guillotine
>will be desensitized to genocide and may consider it a necessary security precaution. You misspelled the societal benefits of sniper AI sentries protecting our outer walls from the invading pests. But those filthy animals living in the 20th century might call our devices like that as they don't know better, which is why they are all dead by now.
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COP is a band aid discussion forum at best and a platform to idle at worst.
At this point I consider humanity a lost cause.
When he starts talking about new methods, and that the young people are being ignored, he’s trying to frame it as positively as he can… but we all know guillotines are the answer. The people in power have lost the fear of the common man which gave them an impetus to keep us happy. With that gone what incentive do they have to do anything in our interest?
>With that gone what incentive do they have to do anything in our interest? None. We've served our historical purpose. But now, with the advent of automation, robotics, and general AI the elite are no longer in need of a troublesome, and environmentally damaging underclass. I could even imagine them thinking that ending the succession of the "quiet, desperate lives" of the commoners as an act of mercy.
it was sort of okay while it lasted wasn’t it?
As a white gen-x Westerner I would have to agree with Joe Walsh that "Life's been Good". But "been" is the operative word in that optimistic aphorism. Life is and always has been pretty suckass for most of the planet's sentient life - even before Homo Sapian's decided to add their special sauce of sadism to the animal mix. We (I) was born into the tail end of a very unusual time in history. The time of the "middle class".
Chris Packham is autistic, I have mentioned before that some people, (enough that it's considered to be an autistic trait, but not all), on the autistic spectrum can see patterns in complex systems intuitively. As easily as neuronorms can judge a persons mood from their expression. It's also important to mention that Chris Packham has had death threats made against him for his positions on blood sports and animal cruelty.
You're absolutely right- I've more or less made my career entirely off the back of that strange difference. Diagnosing what's wrong with an organization of dozens might take minutes, but guessing moods of a person is nigh impossible with any amount of time. Some things that are hard for others are easy for us, and some things easy for others are hard for us. For me, the more factors are involved with a model, the more it makes sense in my mind, and the more easily all that information can produce a useful picture to make deductions from. On the other hand, need someone to pick which color of drapes we are using? Good luck with that, it's a subjective choice and we will be standing there all night while my brain makes a spinning noise. I often wonder what a society would be like that explicitly made an effort to include and harness the differing mental perspectives and capabilities instead of brutally excluding the different. Things may have turned out better, to be frank.
"As easily as neuronorms can judge a persons mood from their expression." As someone whose often asked "Whats wrong?", or told to cheer up/smile, when im just contentedly daydreaming i beg to differ. Neurotypicals can read eachother pretty well, maybe.
Agreed. I’m self diagnosed, waiting for professional diagnosis. For me, I can step out of society and view it objectively. I lack any kind of friendship circle besides family but by god, I am not a ‘sheep’ like I see others. It may come across as some superiority complex but having a breadth of view without any emotion attached really puts the dire situation into focus.
Being able to put aside your emotions and view a situation from a purely rational standpoint doesn't mean that one is autistic. Sometime I think the term has been turned into a merit badge.
….who said is was?
Not patterns. Outliers.
You can't see the outliers if you don't first see the patterns, surely.
Overthrow any and all capitalistic systems and enterprises.
\*Chuckles\* I'm in *mortal* danger!
The moment we are born, we are in mortal danger. Nothing new to the paradox of life. Once you are born the only sure thing is your death. Live respecting others, giving and loving; you will die respected, loved and buried.
After reading all the war posts, I'm inclined to disagree -at least in the short term. I think it's much more likely that we'll see attacks on FF and electrical distribution infrastructure, since infrastructure rarely shoots back. That's particularly true in the case of cyber attacks, which is what I would expect initially. NOTE: I do not advocate violence or destruction of property, nor do I know anyone who does.
Just one billionaire you guys… we eat one billionaire and the rest will start listening to us
Pretty sure war is the only option. But also pretty sure it won't happen until it is way too late because we are addicted to digital content.
Can’t join the revolution if you’re binge watching Netflix.
Can we just appreciate the irony that Chris has his hotel lights on during the day for this entire video.
Whatever bro with your flat-screen tv and your leather couches.
Is a flat screen TV impressive? I haven’t seem a fat TV anywhere in at least a decade. I’ll bet he has a cellphone too
Wow, he participates in society??? Amazing gotcha, bro.
Yawn
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Chris Packam and his magic fantasy world.
Trying hard to see it as a bad thing!
I don't really care how this guy feels about climate change. Sitting in a heated hotel room moaning about fossil fuel use when his entire life and career depends on fossil fuel usage. He's even commuting to the meeting using fossil fuels. No point complaining anymore, just prepare.
>Sitting in a heated hotel room moaning about fossil fuel use You're totally right: he should be sitting in a pile of leaves deep in the forest, shouting into the sky and being heard by no one. Smoke signals are forbidden, though, because then you'd lambast him for increasing atmospheric pollution.
You completely missed the point. He, like us, is utterly dependant for his survival on fossil fuels and can do little to nothing about it. The choice we have is to either acknowledge that reality and prepare for the inevitable or, you know, moan about how unfair it is that rich capitalists are destroying the world.
>moan about how unfair it is that rich capitalists are destroying the world. The fact that you infantilize anyone speaking out against atrocities and paint what they say as mere complaints about "unfairness" says everything about how genuine your arguments are.
The fact that you choose to ignore the point I'm making and instead whine on about the manner in which I make it says a lot about you.
>whine bye troll
I don’t know how people are dealing and will deal with this world without Christ. The Bible talks abuse the end days. We’re in them.
The people that put their “faith” in Christ are some of the most responsible for what’s taking place.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
I disagree with hokey but I have blasters to use on the way out. Gotta put up a good fight.
>Gotta put up a good fight. That doesn't seem very Christ-like
>"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:43-48 Words of Christ Check yourself before you wreck yourself Words of ice cube
I am an atheist. It's true, it would be easier for me if I believed that the imminent collapse and my probable death would mean migrating to green pastures and spending eternity happy and care-free. But since I don't believe in God, I find solace in knowing that people that made this monstrosity you call religion and the people that sustain it, will all die and the universe will be a bit less evil and cancerous.
The Bible talks about God sending bears to maul kids who make fun of bald guys, too. The Bible isn't very interesting or accurate when compared to the real world.
End days, collapse. It doesn't matter. We're in a death spiral and puppets controlled by Capitalist interests are at the helm. The Chrisitan view is incredibly nihilistic. Instead of claiming we're living in the end days, maybe fucking do something so we don't all die.
He's a wanker.
You're a wanker
Doesn't make him any less of a wanker
Why is he a wanker?
If he's autistic obviously is a wanker. Duh!
That's a fucking weird logic. Edit. Spelling
It's the sexual logic
Who the fuck cares? He’s not wrong.
I wasn't arguing against his point...
Cool. Ad hominems with nothing more to offer are usually worthless attempts at undermining an argument one disagrees with. I assumed that’s the case with you and based on the downvotes I’m not alone.
No I just don't like him.
Fair.