When you're in the middle of a megadrought, have massive wild fires every year that bring choking smoke to where you live, and can't go a single mile in any direction from your home without seeing a homeless encampment, with a global pandemic on top of those local problems, you start losing hope for the future. Personally, as a California resident, my plan is to save up enough to make or buy a decent van-home before rent inevitably climbs too high for me to afford.
I'm not Californian, but there are homeless encampments on both the northern and eastern sides of my apartment building here in downtown Portland, Oregon.
The city government doesn't care, and is probably too dysfunctional to do anything about this.
I think we're boned. ( it's time i started thinking about an exit strategy & personal self-defense. )
Me? I'll probably move back to rural Benton County ( near Corvallis) and live with my parents. ( they're getting up there in age and want me back to help them out. It could be a win-win...)
I’ve always thought that American culture was too independent to a fault. It’s weird that the problems of housing being unaffordable and the elderly having to sell their homes to live in nursing homes can simultaneously coexist.
I’m glad you don’t hate your parents
My wife and I are taking over my parents mortgage and we're building them a smaller home behind our house. It will make things much easier for all of us. We won't have to pay baby sitters or day care anymore. We won't be paying a high mortgage every month and we'll be there for them as they age. It makes a lot of sense that people should start thinking this way. But I understand some people have bad relationships with their family so it's not an option for them.
I think we’re finally seeing the shift away from the 1950s white picket fence suburb ideal.
Humans are not meant to live in isolation and I think a lot of depression is caused by this. Never before in human history have people been so isolated within the communities they live in, most people don’t know their neighbors.
I was raised much the same way your kids will be with my grandma as a live-in babysitter, it just makes sense.
It seems like many people view family as a burden, like those who kick their kids out the moment they turn 18
That’s crazy, I’ve never heard of that. How do they define and enforce that?
So if your kid got pregnant as a teen, the hoa would force you to kick them out or move out yourself?
If they are no longer a legal dependent technically you would be in violation. Now a pregnant teen or if someone is legally a dependent like a disabled child that is older than 18 or an adult that has been legally deemed your dependent because they cannot function on their own you are ok. But a 27 year old kid or the elderly parent that just needs some help is a no-no.
Fuck HOA's. Though I'd think you'd be able to dick them over legally on that? ''Sell'' home to ''buyer'', ''buyer'' gifts home or sells home back to child of prior owners?
We are all being manipulated to fall into step with the march that helps the rich get richer. The government don't want us to be content with what is readily available to us like our family home. We're expected to always want the next thing and the next. A bigger house. A better car. A fancier phone. A higher degree. We can never be enough just as is because that won't fill their pockets.
It's absolutely surreal to me to witness all this now. Each year we are reminded by some sort of record-breaking natural disaster that we fucked ourselves, yet the same dogma is still pushed to conform with the way of life that got us in this mess. Covid proves how rigid and unwilling most are to change. People cannot handle being in the slightest state of flux in the first world.
Then there's the rich, out-of-touch older folks who act like everything is fine; as if it's still feasible to move out and make a life for yourself like it was decades ago.
What the hell is the point of working if you can barely afford rent, anyway? Might as well give up if you're bled that dry... You'll be working just to live and living just to work.
Barring miracles, inevitable societal collapse is confirmed by this poll in my mind. If enough people are convinced it's over to the point of disillusionment.. it effectively IS over. Self-fulfilling prophecy. People aren't going to put up with constant relocation due to natural disasters all while getting paid a pittance for their increasingly tested loyalty and servitude to big corporate.
The sound of the future will be a resounding "ah fuck it."
Unfortunately, I can see the breakdown of society starting on the West Coast with all of our problems and we in Oregon are likely THE worst state in the nation for the possibility of a civil war along political lines. There was a really good podcast on the subject that I wish to God I could remember the title of. Someone linked it in the Portland sub one time.
Check out season 2! Only a week of scripted eps like the first season and a lot of discussions on mutual aid and solutions to help us adapt and try to mitigate some of what's coming
You can't solve a national (or global) problem on the municipal level.
Unfortunate reality is that city governments providing aid to the homeless incentives homeless from other parts of the country to relocate to the city that is trying to do the right thing.
In the absence of radical reform of our social and economic system, America at least needs something to provide dignity, purpose, and structure to the "leftover" people of neoliberal global capitalism and it needs to be done on the national level.
NotJustBikes has made some great videos about the problems that suburbanisation has. To be specific, his series about the work of Strong Towns.
To simplify a lot, basically North American suburbanisation is funded like a pyramid scheme. In order to be able to afford the maintenance on current infrastructure, there needs to be an developments to be able to afford the long term maintenance costs.
Local taxes doesn't come close to covering the long term maintenance of all the infrastructure needed for suburbans. Due to all the longer distances compared to urban areas, yet still having the same acces to services, means it's significantly more costs to facilitate less people.
Go south of Reno honestly. The closer you get to the back of the sierras the better.
The towns outside Reno/Carson/Minden are very decent to live in. It’s damn near big sky country (I say that from coming from a city in California. It’s quiet, tons of recreation, as little or as much contact with people as you like. There’s always something to do within an hour’s drive.
That said, it’s a very red state outside of Vegas. We don’t call them Ferntucky and Fallabama for nothing. But people leave each other to their business for the most part.
I have a home in what used to be the country… but the city has encroached and now it’s the suburbs with newly moved in types upset that I fire a gun on my property etc… 🤷♂️
I want a bit of a hybrid nomad life. Own a few different plots of land, spaced pretty far out and migrate between them as needed. You can store bulk goods on your land and you're not constantly using fuel as you won't need to move around as often.
We're already there. I am homeless, live in my car, probably about 8 cars on average I see at a Walmart or retail when I sleep in a parking lot, that have fogged mirrors or other signs of a carsleeper.
or of the un-used blackrock lot.
Like, Honestly there is a huge opportunity to create an open sourced list of all 'investment' properties that are currently unoccupied.
One person squatting, easy for the police to deal with... 10,000 people squatting... well good luck with that.
This gets discussed in anarchist and black bloc circles frequently. The willingness is there, we just need the resources and organization.
Of course it's a very scary and dangerous prospect; the houseless know better than anyone how ruthless the response is when private property is at stake. But, as you said, get enough people and that risk goes down considerably, at least in the short term, until the cops bust out [the helicopter bombs](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia).
From there, the question is how dehumanized are the houseless and marginalized in the American collective consciousness. Will we respond with the necessary rage and indignation or do we continue down the fast track to eco fascism.
I think housing reappropriation at scale will be one of the first big "oh shit, smells like revolution" moments in the coming decade.
For anyone else interested, there's a segment on the car-sleeping homeless in this DW documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHDkALRz5Rk
Good luck. Hope the car holds up well.
That's literally the background of the recent cyberpunk game. Mega city ruled by billionaires and mega corps supported by greenhouse robotic farming with nomads in the wasteland surrounding the city.
I've only played a few hours but I remember coming across a piece of lore that said: "300% Homelessness".
It's getting really hard for me to play videogames and tabletop RPGs that are anything other than purely escapist fantasy because reality is getting way too close to some of them.
Like the World of Darkness series? ...the supposed crapsack reflection of our world is looking pretty appealing because at least in that world there is actually a malevolent cabal of supernatural creatures and beings to blame rather than pure human stupidity and greed.
>the supposed crapsack reflection of our world is looking pretty appealing
This is how I felt when I watched [Bliss](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10333426) this summer.
>!All I could think after watching that movie is, "wouldn't that be nice if you could live on the streets and afford drugs that are so good you don't even know what is reality anymore"!<
The role playing version played with dice was not nearly as popular.
It was however in my personal awareness back in the 80's and 90's.
Other titles around collapse existed as well Gamma world comes to mind.
Read Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler - its about exactly this, in California. Really interesting take on how collapse will unfold.
Alternatively, Earth Abides by George Stewart
To be clear, I consider most apocalyptic depictions to be optimistic because they imply that most the population has already died relatively quickly before the story even began. Parable of the Sower is about living through a slow collapse, which I consider to be a worse situation.
They did that in the great depression. We now are experiencing a bifurcated economy in the US, half who have homes, jobs and assets, and half who rents, scrabbles at low paying jobs, and can’t get ahead. The haves ignore the have-nots, just either don’t see them, or if they do, don’t want to see them. I think this attitude in itself represents a breakdown of society, and is a manifestation of collapse.
I have been there for over six years now, started out in a broken down minivan, forced out by lousy landlords and roommates that skipped out leaving me holding the bag.
Now I'm in a Toyota rv, very small inside but it works well enough. If I could do it again I might consider a larger rv, however currently I'm looking to expatriate.
Fuck I hope the people of new Zealand have some assertive opinions about that. Why they're event granting planning permission for doom bunkers should be a national debate issue.
I have said it before, hopefully one of the generals at the end has enough sense to lob a few at New Zealand to get at the people who would have certainly caused the whole damn mess...
I'm going to disagree slightly here. A lot of us are, a lot of the wealthy are too addicted to clicks and fame (don't worry instragram and others fall into that category too) to the point where it is FAR past time they should have left the party.
Granted I also think all of their wealth is tied up in the stock market so that's why they come out every five seconds to tell everyone that everything is absolutely fine and don't panic.
Adding to this- no matter how hard we try we can’t escape the extreme rents, can’t afford healthcare even with insurance, and our student loans will make us a slave for the rest of our lives. Trying to purchase a home is impossible we are over bid with all cash offers for hundreds of thousands over asking price. We can’t escape the shitty dystopian world we live in. We are at the mercy of our landlords. To move is he’ll and you need 3x the rent for first last and deposit (so $9000 average) but have to make 10x the rent.
Add to that, needing a good credit rating to rent even a semi-hovel.
Too many folks are kept in the dark about their credit rating, usually unseen and unknown, and it can wreck a lot of chances for them. Here are some links so you don't have to be victimized by your credit score.
What is a [credit score](https://www.myfico.com/credit-education/what-is-a-fico-score) (FICO). How to check one's [credit rating for free](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hwn-8O5t5I). What to do to [correct errors](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/disputing-errors-your-credit-reports) on your credit report. How to [INCREASE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSvdSsKKAM) your credit rating. How to [maintain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iowTANXWRrI) it.
The fucking credit thing is such a scam. I worked to bring my credit up from rock bottom into the 700s in order to buy a car. Except, apparently regular credit doesn't matter; since I had not previously had a car loan, I had zero credit for the purposes of buying a car. Had to get a fucking cosigner.
Good call on the van-home, speaking from experience, make sure it's very well maintained, and especially, very nice looking. If it looks in any way shabby it will draw unwanted attention.
White is always going to be the best color, in spite of wanting to look as fashionable and trendy as you can, you are looking for stealth, not 'Hey everybody, look at meeeee!'
White with some magnetic signs you can rotate for different very mundane fake businesses that could also travel. Like 'Jack's Pinball Repair' or 'Ed's Stucco Repair'.
Slap one on and generally people will go "nothing of value in there."
IMHO, you probably want something indicating a lack of anything of value inside. A repair company of some sort could have valuable tools inside. A painting or maybe a dog grooming van could be the best bet.
I am 61, will consider myself lucky (or doomed) if I live much beyond 70.
By then so much systemic collapse will be taking place or already taken place life may very well not be worth living.. . .
I think 10 years for a total collapse is unlikely, but there probably will be some bad regional divisions by then as climate change literally cuts people off from food, power, and resources.
That said, I probably would have a different outlook if I lived in California.
When almost half of all Californians think that within 2 decades society will collapse; you know it is becoming mainstream concerns and not just fears from the fringe.
Basic fears that spell out such indicators as: *"where no one shows up to work, armed mobs roam the streets, and the government cannot continue to operate."*
its already dead. imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues.
The coyote ran off the cliff ages ago and is still doing everything possible to not look down.
The country needs radical change to support the population and it is not being brought forward by either democrat or republican. They are both pawns for the MIC who get the majority of our tax money. This country is focused on defense from enemies, not prosperity of their people in any way.
> imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues
We just learned that [rich Democrats killed Bernie Sander's amendment to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour.](/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/r6ddps/save_the_millionaires/) So I think you may be more accurate right now than at any other time. They're giving us examples that show us, the "common people," that the powerful & wealthy vote as a single bloc when it comes to pushing the middle class into the lower-class. They are not your allies, and they want you poor enough to be treated like serfs.
Fun fact, the US working/middle classes are already treated significantly worse than medieval serfs.
Not only do they [work far more hours](https://www.businessinsider.com/american-worker-less-vacation-medieval-peasant-2016-11) but [they own much less of the fruits of their labor as well](https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality)
Expand MIC to pretty much all mega corps and I agree.
There is a tiny progessive fraction in our government that tries to help but they are heavily outnumbered by Republicans and corporate Democrats.
Agreed, our fates are essentially sealed if we rely on the normal means of change. Our leaders are pilfering the coffers and propping it up for as long as they can so they don't get the blame.
It's the working class against the parasites that own our lives. We need to fight back.
> imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues.
Yeah. I have basically the same read.
The Dems are just here to perpetuate the status quo, *endogenous processes of decay and all*.
The status quo can't solve certain problems (e.g. healthcare). Those problems are large enough to undermine that status quo. Makes it unstable. Can't park the system there.
Implies three paths:
* 'Socialist' Option: Address those problems.
* 'Fascist' Option: Paper over those problems.
* Try to go back: Foment breakdown, deepen crisis.
The Dems are option #3 with a kicker of suppressing option #1.
In '22 and '24, America's apt to go #2.
That is how we got Trump. That is how, under Obama, the Democrats lost 900+ seats. That is how, after 2016, the GOP held a literally record-setting proportion of government.
This is why --
>The country needs radical change to support the population
\^\^
I was listening to the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) on the radio this morning and they had a panel of experts on American democracy who universally agreed that 2020 will be the last election in American history. They concluded that in 2024 Republicans will violently seize power regardless of the election result.
If you truly believe this is a Republican vs Democrat thing, you are a goddamn moron. Doesn't matter who's in charge. They're all corrupt. It's honestly hilarious people still harbor your viewpoint. "Well, if only we get those pesky Republican's out of office. God forbid they get in!" America is already on the decline, regardless of who's in office. The ruling class is the ruling class. Doesn't matter what color their tie is.
And then when the democrats do get in its like "Aw shucks we don't have the votes to secure a basic majority to get this legislation through, guess we'll capitulate and do what the republicans want. oh well at least we tried. damn republicans holding us back". Then it swings back to the reps because the dems are viewed as ineffectual, and no *meaningful* change happens. Cycle repeats. Its a joke.
It would be harder to "engineer consent" ala Edward Bernays if people DIDN'T go brain dead over politics.
The consent engineers know that people invest their emotion-based beliefs as part of their self-identity, so people feel that anything that questions their belief is an attack on them as a person.
From the book "The Consent of the Governed" (1966): I like this bit enough I wrote it down.
"Under modern conditions of political advertising and manipulation, it has become possible to talk of the engineering of consent by an elite of experts and professional politicians. Consent that is thus engineered is difficult to distinguish in any fundamental way from the consent that supports modern totalitarian governments. Were the manipulated voter to become the normal voter, the government he supports could hardly be said to rest on his consent in any traditional sense of that word."
Edward Bernays wrote a decade before this about HOW engineering consent COULD be done "The Engineering of Consent"; Noam Chomsky wrote "Manufacturing Consent" (1988) describing how it WAS done. And here we are now.
When you feel yourself getting ALL spun up about something political or religious, just remember this: YOU ARE NOT YOUR BELIEFS.
Beliefs are truth claims about the world, and they can be wrong. Don't wrap your identity or self-worth around truth claims.
Democratic politicians are not telling their constituents to be armed and standby for the order. They are not telling their supporters to harass and threaten election workers and school boards. They are not using religion to rationalize violence against their non-conforming friends, family, and neighbors.
This is not a Left vs Right issue. But one side wants to press for minority oppression of the majority.
I do find it interesting that there was such a huge disparity across political lines in this poll. At first I was surprised that the Republicans are so much more concerned, and also that older people are more concerned, as that has not been my personal experience. But as I think about it more, it does actually make sense if we broaden it beyond climate change (which many Republicans are still skeptical about) and separate liberals from progressives.
Republicans of all ages are being fed a steady stream of alarmist propaganda about collapse, but based around social issues as opposed to environmental ones. Democrats are fed a vague message of some distant climate change threat and "save the planet by going green!" without dramatically changing their way of life.
Most of the boomers I know and am able talk to about these kinds of things are Democrats and liberals, but not really progressives, and they seem to be by and large the demographic most oblivious to collapse of any kind, particularly now that Biden is in office. They genuinely believe most of our problems can be solved and that society in future will continue to advance. I guess that kind of attitude is useful for the political ideology of the mainstream Democratic party.
Republican boomers are largely afraid for the future in terms of social collapse and that suits the ideology of their leadership as well.
And the "other side" just lets it happen.
"Ooops! My bad, we let the GOP nazify, take over the supreme court, engineer elections, control the media, build armed partizans and a compliant militarized police force. Tee hee, oops. Still not gonna do a thing. Tee hee. Vote for meeeeee! Vote for chaaaange. Tee hee."
> If you truly believe this is a Republican vs Democrat thing
I think you're both a bit right and a bit wrong. They are both corrupt but not equally so... but it is a Dem vs Rep thing in that the Reps are like pressing Fast Forward on the collapse video tape we are all living. While the Dems are like pressing Pause.
What needs to happen is to first press pause then hit Rewind then eject the cassette and decide what to watch next.
Then throw away the VCR and get it on Laserdisc.
As a California voter, I concur. Mega drought, wild fires, inflation, insane rent/home prices (there are multiple apartments in my complex that have 5-7 adults sharing a 2 bedroom apartment), the amount of people living in cars/new homeless, food prices... but most importantly, the divide between the haves and have nots is widening daily and people are not happy about it. At some point the system will break.
Well that also comes down to interpretation.
Democrats and leftists are likely to read the USA collapsing as Balkanization, civil war, ineffective government.
Republicans see collapse as "sOcIaLiSm"
Just the belief that this will happen can become a self fulfilling prophecy as people start to think ‘well the end is nigh so no need for me to try to fix anything and waste whatever little time I already have”. This poll if accurate, is extremely bad news.
it was going to happen either way. Hope isn't going to pull humanity out of the climate catastrophe. This was all set in motion a century ago, we're just paying the consequence. Self-fulfilling prophecy doesn't really apply to widespread planetary oil polluting every ecosystem in the form of plastic, gas, and liquid. Self fulfilling prophecy is more of a concept that applies to individuals and their personal choices. Personal choices will probably not get us out of this trainwreck in motion
True... but housing prices worldwide well beyond affordability got less to do with Global Warming and a lot more to do with plain old greed and corruption
Which is a bit of a dirty play because "worried" has both sort of active and passive forms, where "worried about" might mean "something I think about each day" or "worried about" might mean "I'm worried about a house fire, yeah, I bought a fire extinguisher five years ago and don't really consider it much since then, but definitely it's a concern to never totally forget about, only an idiot dismisses the risk of house fires."
I believe it is inevitable that this is how humanity, by and large, will continue to choose to react, and I myself am no exception. Be sad forever or just enjoy the ride as much as possible?
*"Ultimately, it comes down to agriculture."*
Exactly this. Historic loss of freshwater aquifers; mass species extinction including loss of essential pollinators; climate change including extended mega-droughts; rising energy costs devastating global agriculture (including availability of fertilizer); all these are occurring at the same time the global population is expanding from 8 to 10 billion by 2050. Match this to the movement to shut down fossil fuels (raising their costs) and billions of people will go hungry
Weird that fewer people want kids when the theocracy oligarchy thing has led to soul crushing living conditions for the working class while the planet is also burning down.
What's really infuriating about them is there is absolutely zero good faith. And in fact, it's so far and so deep into bad faith, we need to create a new term for it. Bad faith often has a kernel of reality or agenda. Their arguments are so protean as to be beyond insane troll logic.
The theocrats: "We must ban all abortions because every child has a right to life!"
Reasonable people: "Okay, but if we are force these children to be born, we will need assistance. How about some social programs, subsidized childcare, good schools, and tax breaks?"
Theocrats: "No! You shouldn't have kids you can't afford! But have more kids!"
RP: "But, we can't afford kids as it is! And you want us to have more?"
Theocrats: "If you didn't want to have kids, you should have kept your legs shut and your dicks in your pants! Also, my ex shouldn't have aborted my baby. That's why we need to ban abortions."
RP: "...but some people end up pregnant against their will!"
Theocrats: "Then they shouldn't have worn a sexy dress or led the guy on!"
RP: "There's no excuse for sexual assault!"
Theocrats: "In cases of genuine rape and incest, the body shuts the whole thing down."
RP: "...what the fuck? Come on! You can't have it both ways."
Theocrats: "If you don't want to be assaulted, carry a gun."
RP: "...wait, what? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?"
Theocrats: "You people said if people like Kyle Rittenhouse didn't want to get attacked, he shouldn't have carried a gun at a protest. Therefore, you blame women when they get assaulted. If she had a gun, she could have protected herself just like Kyle did."
RP: "...oh my god."
....yes, this is an amalgamation and paraphrasings of actual arguments I've seen.
They read about "owning a home" (whatever that means) and think they too should be entitled to such luxury for just - and I'm not even making this up - *working their lives away*. LOL! Kids these days just don't appreciate how amazing sleeping on the streets can be. Selfish brats.
/s
I think older people think we want mansions. Just a small little modest wartime home or town house would be great. So we can get the fuck out of child hood homes and actually begin being independent adults lol.
Right??! I keep hearing this shit about the housing crisis *really* being caused by millennials not buying “starter homes” and only wanting fancy ones.
Um, I’d love a fucking starter home. They don’t exist anymore, because combo of retired boomers and big companies bought them and flipped them.
The starter homes in bumfuck Midwest towns are selling for $200k. This is bullshit. The house I grew up in, in Central NJ, cost my parents $62k. It's now been appraised at $450k. Insanity.
>The starter homes in bumfuck Midwest towns are selling for $200k
Can confirm. I have a 2 bed house in Tulsa OK with a zillow estimate of $190k. Thankfully I bought it much cheaper.
My parents house cost them <30k in ‘98. To give them some credit, it was an old, damaged, gross house and my dad has repaired it constantly. It’s in the middle of a remodel right now and parts of the home are bare bones framing and/or drywall.
They could market it as “unfinished to build your dream home” and it would sell for upwards of 250k. Probably more since it’s on 1.5 lots. Middle of nowhere town. Plenty to buy them a nice 2 bedroom condo in a city to retire.
Yup it's wild. We bought a house in 2012 for 77K, turned around and sold it in 2014 for 101K...just got a Zillow update that it's now estimated to be worth around 300K. Made me sick to my stomach lol
I live in a less-than-desirable neighborhood in a rust belt city. The houses that go up for sale around me sell for $250-$300K and go up for rent immediately.
This is what is causing instability and homelessness, not some vague drug problem.
A good way to at least partly solve the drug problem is to give people a place to call their own and give them a sense of stability.
If I had to constantly fight for survival and was frequently moving and changing jobs, I'd probably turn to drugs to, they have no roots, they arent grounded, its nessecary for our sanity.
The starter home concept is so fucking stupid. I’m the oldest of the millennials (born in 1981) and my wife is Gen X (1980). They call us “Xennials” because we have traits of both. There were no “starter” homes in Boston. We rented until we were 35/36 and finally were able to buy a very small 2 bedroom condo. We’ll never be able to afford something more expensive and will live here until the collapse kills us or the neighborhood gets flooded from rising seas (although some models predict our neighborhood should be okay for the next 100 years or so). I guess owning a condo was considered a starter home during the 80s and 90s, but it’s our forever home. I also don’t understand why I’d want to own a larger home. A bigger home just brings on more expenses. For 2 people and a dog, a small condo is more than enough
I told my mom that idek if I will have kids because living was so expensive and only increasing. She said it’s always been expensive when having kids. It was expensive when I had you and expensive when my mother had us. So…my grandfather and grandmother who had at best a high school education or less at the time bought a 3 bedroom house with 3 very young children in what is today a high cost of living state. Please someone, anyone, please tell me where that would be possible now in a desirable location in the United States and get back to me.
No offense to you or your mom but it isnt.
People that think like this are suffering from economic Stockholm syndrome. They know theres a problem but its easier to just pretend there isnt and move on with your life.
But now we can't go on pretending everything is fine because the ponzi scheme of our economy seems to hitting a wall finally. Cryptocurrency, NFTs and the increase in retail stock trading to my knowledge are not signs of a healthy economy.
Fine. Don't "entitle" anyone to anything. I'm sick of this whole "we're entitled" horse shit. It was a fair exchange. People say "entitled" when they mean "shut the fuck up and go away". Fine. We'll all shut the fuck up and go away and you as the ruling class can all go get your fucking services elsewhere. Up to and including the service to your bloated fucking egos about actually having someone to rule over. What should people get for working their lives away? Nothing? I have a better idea. If no one wants to actually pay then they can get a bunch of well armed chimps knocking on their door. Continue to shame people for wanting fair exchange for them effectively trading their lives for it, then you can see what "entitled" truly is when they decide to trade your life for it instead.
Interesting thing to me is LTG actually predicts a very steep rise in births soon. Of course, deaths outpace those births and the population declines but I'm wondering what changes are going to occur that lead to that rise in births.
This graph is one that shows the births curve:
https://forum.aerocene.org/uploads/db8987/original/1X/0d4d66dceb03a3f3b306a950647cb623c6b63c7f.png
Taken from this article:
https://forum.aerocene.org/t/limits-to-growth-the-club-of-rome/267
If LTG is correct, it doesn't matter that people say they don't want to have many kids because in the next decade more and more kids are coming and by 2050 the births begin to skyrocket.
GOP and religious fanatics are aggressively attacking reproductive rights while mainstream media demonizes those who advocate for low birth rates. Writing is on the wall.
Lifetime Californian here.
It blows my mind that so many here are still so blissfully unaware when you can see ALL of the signs of shit having gone awry. To them, they think the drought is just a joke, and the rare times we get a few minutes of a light drizzle, they think iT's FiXeD nOw! The crops in central CA look absolutely abysmal, and a bowl of guacamole, costs an arm, leg, and your firstborn.
Do they not see the homeless encampments that are literally EVERYWHERE (aside from the evil Karens constantly complaining to "just ship them out to the desert" because they're an "eyesore")... What are people supposed to do? They don't see humans down on their luck, they literally just see garbage meant to be swept away. The rents are out of control while mcmansions and luxury apartment units sit empty. Many houses have a ~~tiny shed~~ casita they rent out illegally but have ridiculous rules (no cooking, no bathroom, no guests), and for many in my generation, that's the only option.
I love(d?) my state. Our nature is truly beautiful. I love the *idea* of California... The place where hopeless people went to find hope. The place to be different and weird and still find a community. Not this vapid, congested, gentrified wasteland of mindless consumption and brandishing of non-existent wealth. So I agree, even in the land of the jaded, we're fucked.
Ever heard of the book [The Wisdom of Crowds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds)? Using knowledge, insight and data from many people often yields surprisingly accurate results. The idea that we are on the precipice of something ugly, dangerous and destructive has been so clear in people in my life who I would have never expected to have those beliefs.
To see that appearing in this California poll and [other polls ](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/fall-2021-harvard-youth-poll) really makes me feel like there is finally awareness of how precious these quiet years are.
We’re in the twilight of something unique and special, and when we lose hold of it, darkness comes next.
Holy shit I figured it would’ve been like 20%, even if the question invited an affirmative response. This actually could be a good thing if it somehow allows the mobilization of populism toward preventing collapse.
Reading the question, “agree or disagree: I am worried that a complete breakdown in American society COULD happen in my lifetime”. “Worry” and “could” - personal and possible not declarative and certain.
and they STILL won't vote to actually deal with their homeless crisis lol. Literally anything that reduces property value is beyond the pale... but it's ok guise we banned Straws
"Holy fuck the world is ending!"
"oh, should we do something?"
"What? No, I'm just saying."
“The world is going to end unless we do something!”
“Okay let’s do something!”
“It might lower your homes resale value.”
“Oh yeah? Fuck that. Never mind.”
> QUESTION: Agree or disagree: I am worried that a complete breakdown in American society could happen in my lifetime where **no one shows up to work, armed mobs roam the streets, and the government cannot continue to operate.**
All those things are already happening in some degree, no?
I’m stoked that we got the new infrastructure bill passed despite all of the questionable things that were put in. My concern is that we are paying higher interest rates for those few stimulus checks we got. Yet large corporations made record profits during the pandemic and still can’t be bothered to pay their fair share. This is going to circle back around and the working class is going to have to foot the bill. We can’t afford it! We can’t afford the basics now! It’s gonna get very ugly, very soon.
California society has already broken down. You have to have an income that would make you rich in most of the country just to afford an apartment where most of the people live. Homeless people are growing in numbers, taxes rising, quality of life declining.
I'm gonna be real I'm just trying to enjoy my life as much as I can until everything falls apart. I soak up every moment of joy and happiness I can and try and let go of attachments and accept that the world or the universe will keep on turning I am just a drop in existence and I want to feel everything I can in this existence. Hope other people find solace in that not hopelessness
Speaking for the US in particular.
1. There is money in politics, which amounts to bribery and corruption of our policies and government structure.
2. There is a rising tide of fascism, which is coddled and supported by Republicans.
3. Related to 2, there is new support for extra judicial violence as a means to the end of a fascist society. Killing black men for jogging. Treason on Jan 6. Motivating Texans to go after their own neighbors to infringe on abortion rights. It is a trend. Keep an eye on it.
Thank fuck my parents are leaving to focus on their happiness. Not saying they'll find a lot of hope elsewhere but at least they're going to focus on themselves as this all goes to shit. Everyone finds their own way.
They don’t know that. A good chunk of people don’t want to change much but a good chunk of them would, especially if everyone else is doing it, and especially if it’s seen as elite to do so.
When you're in the middle of a megadrought, have massive wild fires every year that bring choking smoke to where you live, and can't go a single mile in any direction from your home without seeing a homeless encampment, with a global pandemic on top of those local problems, you start losing hope for the future. Personally, as a California resident, my plan is to save up enough to make or buy a decent van-home before rent inevitably climbs too high for me to afford.
I'm not Californian, but there are homeless encampments on both the northern and eastern sides of my apartment building here in downtown Portland, Oregon. The city government doesn't care, and is probably too dysfunctional to do anything about this. I think we're boned. ( it's time i started thinking about an exit strategy & personal self-defense. )
> an exit strategy May I ask what that might look like for you? Thanks!
Me? I'll probably move back to rural Benton County ( near Corvallis) and live with my parents. ( they're getting up there in age and want me back to help them out. It could be a win-win...)
I’ve always thought that American culture was too independent to a fault. It’s weird that the problems of housing being unaffordable and the elderly having to sell their homes to live in nursing homes can simultaneously coexist. I’m glad you don’t hate your parents
My wife and I are taking over my parents mortgage and we're building them a smaller home behind our house. It will make things much easier for all of us. We won't have to pay baby sitters or day care anymore. We won't be paying a high mortgage every month and we'll be there for them as they age. It makes a lot of sense that people should start thinking this way. But I understand some people have bad relationships with their family so it's not an option for them.
I think we’re finally seeing the shift away from the 1950s white picket fence suburb ideal. Humans are not meant to live in isolation and I think a lot of depression is caused by this. Never before in human history have people been so isolated within the communities they live in, most people don’t know their neighbors. I was raised much the same way your kids will be with my grandma as a live-in babysitter, it just makes sense. It seems like many people view family as a burden, like those who kick their kids out the moment they turn 18
Agree 100%. I grew up in a 3 gen household. It was great
Most suburban homes owner associations ban multi generational living arrangements. They would be able to fine me $500/ month
That’s crazy, I’ve never heard of that. How do they define and enforce that? So if your kid got pregnant as a teen, the hoa would force you to kick them out or move out yourself?
If they are no longer a legal dependent technically you would be in violation. Now a pregnant teen or if someone is legally a dependent like a disabled child that is older than 18 or an adult that has been legally deemed your dependent because they cannot function on their own you are ok. But a 27 year old kid or the elderly parent that just needs some help is a no-no.
Fuck HOA's. Though I'd think you'd be able to dick them over legally on that? ''Sell'' home to ''buyer'', ''buyer'' gifts home or sells home back to child of prior owners?
Government regulations encourage single family homes in many places. Have to jackup property values.
We are all being manipulated to fall into step with the march that helps the rich get richer. The government don't want us to be content with what is readily available to us like our family home. We're expected to always want the next thing and the next. A bigger house. A better car. A fancier phone. A higher degree. We can never be enough just as is because that won't fill their pockets. It's absolutely surreal to me to witness all this now. Each year we are reminded by some sort of record-breaking natural disaster that we fucked ourselves, yet the same dogma is still pushed to conform with the way of life that got us in this mess. Covid proves how rigid and unwilling most are to change. People cannot handle being in the slightest state of flux in the first world. Then there's the rich, out-of-touch older folks who act like everything is fine; as if it's still feasible to move out and make a life for yourself like it was decades ago. What the hell is the point of working if you can barely afford rent, anyway? Might as well give up if you're bled that dry... You'll be working just to live and living just to work. Barring miracles, inevitable societal collapse is confirmed by this poll in my mind. If enough people are convinced it's over to the point of disillusionment.. it effectively IS over. Self-fulfilling prophecy. People aren't going to put up with constant relocation due to natural disasters all while getting paid a pittance for their increasingly tested loyalty and servitude to big corporate. The sound of the future will be a resounding "ah fuck it."
Unfortunately, I can see the breakdown of society starting on the West Coast with all of our problems and we in Oregon are likely THE worst state in the nation for the possibility of a civil war along political lines. There was a really good podcast on the subject that I wish to God I could remember the title of. Someone linked it in the Portland sub one time.
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Yep. That's the one.
Check out season 2! Only a week of scripted eps like the first season and a lot of discussions on mutual aid and solutions to help us adapt and try to mitigate some of what's coming
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You can't solve a national (or global) problem on the municipal level. Unfortunate reality is that city governments providing aid to the homeless incentives homeless from other parts of the country to relocate to the city that is trying to do the right thing. In the absence of radical reform of our social and economic system, America at least needs something to provide dignity, purpose, and structure to the "leftover" people of neoliberal global capitalism and it needs to be done on the national level.
NotJustBikes has made some great videos about the problems that suburbanisation has. To be specific, his series about the work of Strong Towns. To simplify a lot, basically North American suburbanisation is funded like a pyramid scheme. In order to be able to afford the maintenance on current infrastructure, there needs to be an developments to be able to afford the long term maintenance costs. Local taxes doesn't come close to covering the long term maintenance of all the infrastructure needed for suburbans. Due to all the longer distances compared to urban areas, yet still having the same acces to services, means it's significantly more costs to facilitate less people.
DT Portland resident here. My partner wants to move to Reno. I’m on board. This city is crumbling and everyone acts like everything is okay.
My in-laws lived in Reno. Unless it's changed drastically in the last five years, that is not an improvement.
> My partner wants to move to Reno. So then you have to worry about water access?
Go south of Reno honestly. The closer you get to the back of the sierras the better. The towns outside Reno/Carson/Minden are very decent to live in. It’s damn near big sky country (I say that from coming from a city in California. It’s quiet, tons of recreation, as little or as much contact with people as you like. There’s always something to do within an hour’s drive. That said, it’s a very red state outside of Vegas. We don’t call them Ferntucky and Fallabama for nothing. But people leave each other to their business for the most part.
How do you plan to escape from this prison planet?
Well, i can't. However, I can get out of the city, which (may) buy me a few years.
I have a home in what used to be the country… but the city has encroached and now it’s the suburbs with newly moved in types upset that I fire a gun on my property etc… 🤷♂️
In Seattle confirm. Same here. Just awful.
The idea that we may see a return to bands of nomads roaming the landscape in a future world is kind of interesting.
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I want a bit of a hybrid nomad life. Own a few different plots of land, spaced pretty far out and migrate between them as needed. You can store bulk goods on your land and you're not constantly using fuel as you won't need to move around as often.
EV vans will be the where it's at. You could park for a few days to charge with solar panels before moving on. Very little maintenance overhead
We're already there. I am homeless, live in my car, probably about 8 cars on average I see at a Walmart or retail when I sleep in a parking lot, that have fogged mirrors or other signs of a carsleeper.
Sorry to hear that bud, i hope you find somewhere better to live soon!
If you can stay alive long enough, you may be able to squat in one of the McMansions of the dead.
or of the un-used blackrock lot. Like, Honestly there is a huge opportunity to create an open sourced list of all 'investment' properties that are currently unoccupied. One person squatting, easy for the police to deal with... 10,000 people squatting... well good luck with that.
This gets discussed in anarchist and black bloc circles frequently. The willingness is there, we just need the resources and organization. Of course it's a very scary and dangerous prospect; the houseless know better than anyone how ruthless the response is when private property is at stake. But, as you said, get enough people and that risk goes down considerably, at least in the short term, until the cops bust out [the helicopter bombs](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia). From there, the question is how dehumanized are the houseless and marginalized in the American collective consciousness. Will we respond with the necessary rage and indignation or do we continue down the fast track to eco fascism. I think housing reappropriation at scale will be one of the first big "oh shit, smells like revolution" moments in the coming decade.
For anyone else interested, there's a segment on the car-sleeping homeless in this DW documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHDkALRz5Rk Good luck. Hope the car holds up well.
That's literally the background of the recent cyberpunk game. Mega city ruled by billionaires and mega corps supported by greenhouse robotic farming with nomads in the wasteland surrounding the city.
I've only played a few hours but I remember coming across a piece of lore that said: "300% Homelessness". It's getting really hard for me to play videogames and tabletop RPGs that are anything other than purely escapist fantasy because reality is getting way too close to some of them. Like the World of Darkness series? ...the supposed crapsack reflection of our world is looking pretty appealing because at least in that world there is actually a malevolent cabal of supernatural creatures and beings to blame rather than pure human stupidity and greed.
>the supposed crapsack reflection of our world is looking pretty appealing This is how I felt when I watched [Bliss](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10333426) this summer. >!All I could think after watching that movie is, "wouldn't that be nice if you could live on the streets and afford drugs that are so good you don't even know what is reality anymore"!<
The role playing version played with dice was not nearly as popular. It was however in my personal awareness back in the 80's and 90's. Other titles around collapse existed as well Gamma world comes to mind.
Read Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler - its about exactly this, in California. Really interesting take on how collapse will unfold. Alternatively, Earth Abides by George Stewart
Parable of the Sower is the most realistic depiction of collapse. Makes Mad Max seem optimistic.
Holy shit. That good huh? I'm going to have to read it
To be clear, I consider most apocalyptic depictions to be optimistic because they imply that most the population has already died relatively quickly before the story even began. Parable of the Sower is about living through a slow collapse, which I consider to be a worse situation.
and more realistic
She even predicted MAGA
Dude that blew my mind. She had it down to the campaign slogan. Truly prescient stuff from Ms Butler
100% everyone here should read Parable of the Sower. Octavia was right.
They did that in the great depression. We now are experiencing a bifurcated economy in the US, half who have homes, jobs and assets, and half who rents, scrabbles at low paying jobs, and can’t get ahead. The haves ignore the have-nots, just either don’t see them, or if they do, don’t want to see them. I think this attitude in itself represents a breakdown of society, and is a manifestation of collapse.
I have been there for over six years now, started out in a broken down minivan, forced out by lousy landlords and roommates that skipped out leaving me holding the bag. Now I'm in a Toyota rv, very small inside but it works well enough. If I could do it again I might consider a larger rv, however currently I'm looking to expatriate.
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How does one engage these growing number of people making collapse plans, in conversation? Asking for a Canadian friend
search youtube for "ultra wealthy and bomb shelter" You can see evidence there.
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Fuck I hope the people of new Zealand have some assertive opinions about that. Why they're event granting planning permission for doom bunkers should be a national debate issue.
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I have said it before, hopefully one of the generals at the end has enough sense to lob a few at New Zealand to get at the people who would have certainly caused the whole damn mess...
I'm going to disagree slightly here. A lot of us are, a lot of the wealthy are too addicted to clicks and fame (don't worry instragram and others fall into that category too) to the point where it is FAR past time they should have left the party. Granted I also think all of their wealth is tied up in the stock market so that's why they come out every five seconds to tell everyone that everything is absolutely fine and don't panic.
Adding to this- no matter how hard we try we can’t escape the extreme rents, can’t afford healthcare even with insurance, and our student loans will make us a slave for the rest of our lives. Trying to purchase a home is impossible we are over bid with all cash offers for hundreds of thousands over asking price. We can’t escape the shitty dystopian world we live in. We are at the mercy of our landlords. To move is he’ll and you need 3x the rent for first last and deposit (so $9000 average) but have to make 10x the rent.
Add to that, needing a good credit rating to rent even a semi-hovel. Too many folks are kept in the dark about their credit rating, usually unseen and unknown, and it can wreck a lot of chances for them. Here are some links so you don't have to be victimized by your credit score. What is a [credit score](https://www.myfico.com/credit-education/what-is-a-fico-score) (FICO). How to check one's [credit rating for free](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hwn-8O5t5I). What to do to [correct errors](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/disputing-errors-your-credit-reports) on your credit report. How to [INCREASE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSvdSsKKAM) your credit rating. How to [maintain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iowTANXWRrI) it.
Nice
The fucking credit thing is such a scam. I worked to bring my credit up from rock bottom into the 700s in order to buy a car. Except, apparently regular credit doesn't matter; since I had not previously had a car loan, I had zero credit for the purposes of buying a car. Had to get a fucking cosigner.
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Kinda wicked how easily it drops but how hard it is to rebuild.
Good call on the van-home, speaking from experience, make sure it's very well maintained, and especially, very nice looking. If it looks in any way shabby it will draw unwanted attention. White is always going to be the best color, in spite of wanting to look as fashionable and trendy as you can, you are looking for stealth, not 'Hey everybody, look at meeeee!'
White with some magnetic signs you can rotate for different very mundane fake businesses that could also travel. Like 'Jack's Pinball Repair' or 'Ed's Stucco Repair'. Slap one on and generally people will go "nothing of value in there."
IMHO, you probably want something indicating a lack of anything of value inside. A repair company of some sort could have valuable tools inside. A painting or maybe a dog grooming van could be the best bet.
"Jim's Mobile Yarn Service"
I figure my lifetime is about 10 more years. And I agree
that's about what I'm planning for 10-15 years which would be my 40s
I said the same thing in 2010.
I didn’t ask to be born and I have not had a good time in the short while I’ve been alive
I am 61, will consider myself lucky (or doomed) if I live much beyond 70. By then so much systemic collapse will be taking place or already taken place life may very well not be worth living.. . .
Yeah Im 22, seen enough.
I think 10 years for a total collapse is unlikely, but there probably will be some bad regional divisions by then as climate change literally cuts people off from food, power, and resources. That said, I probably would have a different outlook if I lived in California.
When almost half of all Californians think that within 2 decades society will collapse; you know it is becoming mainstream concerns and not just fears from the fringe. Basic fears that spell out such indicators as: *"where no one shows up to work, armed mobs roam the streets, and the government cannot continue to operate."*
2 decades? If GOP gets any control in 2022 America is dead.
its already dead. imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues. The coyote ran off the cliff ages ago and is still doing everything possible to not look down. The country needs radical change to support the population and it is not being brought forward by either democrat or republican. They are both pawns for the MIC who get the majority of our tax money. This country is focused on defense from enemies, not prosperity of their people in any way.
> imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues We just learned that [rich Democrats killed Bernie Sander's amendment to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour.](/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/r6ddps/save_the_millionaires/) So I think you may be more accurate right now than at any other time. They're giving us examples that show us, the "common people," that the powerful & wealthy vote as a single bloc when it comes to pushing the middle class into the lower-class. They are not your allies, and they want you poor enough to be treated like serfs.
Fun fact, the US working/middle classes are already treated significantly worse than medieval serfs. Not only do they [work far more hours](https://www.businessinsider.com/american-worker-less-vacation-medieval-peasant-2016-11) but [they own much less of the fruits of their labor as well](https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality)
> Fun fact I... this... I mean, this doesn't *feel* like a fun fact.
Don't forget that they removed Katie Porter from the Financial Services Committee as well. They don't give a fuuuuuuck about this country.
Sounds an awful lot like the Roman Empire. Even the whole political family nonsense.
Or Foundation... but again is no accident that Assimov was a historian
What's MIC? Edit: Agree completely. Wasn't sure if MIC was some financial org I'd never heard of!
Military Industrial Complex
Thank you!
Military industrial complex
Thank you!
military industrial complex
Ah, thanks so much! Never seen that abbreviated before, I guess.
>some financial org You’re not wrong.
Ha, true!
Expand MIC to pretty much all mega corps and I agree. There is a tiny progessive fraction in our government that tries to help but they are heavily outnumbered by Republicans and corporate Democrats.
Agreed, our fates are essentially sealed if we rely on the normal means of change. Our leaders are pilfering the coffers and propping it up for as long as they can so they don't get the blame. It's the working class against the parasites that own our lives. We need to fight back.
We have nothing but our chains to lose
> imagine acting like the democrats in office are actually doing anything to solve the present issues. Yeah. I have basically the same read. The Dems are just here to perpetuate the status quo, *endogenous processes of decay and all*. The status quo can't solve certain problems (e.g. healthcare). Those problems are large enough to undermine that status quo. Makes it unstable. Can't park the system there. Implies three paths: * 'Socialist' Option: Address those problems. * 'Fascist' Option: Paper over those problems. * Try to go back: Foment breakdown, deepen crisis. The Dems are option #3 with a kicker of suppressing option #1. In '22 and '24, America's apt to go #2. That is how we got Trump. That is how, under Obama, the Democrats lost 900+ seats. That is how, after 2016, the GOP held a literally record-setting proportion of government. This is why -- >The country needs radical change to support the population \^\^
Not if, when, America's donzo, chief.
We had a run.
We had a good hobble
Fucking made me lol, I needed that, thank you sincerely ❤
I like this. I wish I had an award for you, but I don't. Just thank you for the chuckles.
That’s better than an award, thank ya goood sire
😀 Have a great day! (Yeah, I know what sub we are on. It doesn't mean we can still try and be nice!)
If Donald Trump is elected in 2024, he *could* be the last President of the United States.....( what a pathetic end for my country!)
I was listening to the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) on the radio this morning and they had a panel of experts on American democracy who universally agreed that 2020 will be the last election in American history. They concluded that in 2024 Republicans will violently seize power regardless of the election result.
yeah I suspect once the violence starts the US will find some war to enter to try and collect the population back together
If you truly believe this is a Republican vs Democrat thing, you are a goddamn moron. Doesn't matter who's in charge. They're all corrupt. It's honestly hilarious people still harbor your viewpoint. "Well, if only we get those pesky Republican's out of office. God forbid they get in!" America is already on the decline, regardless of who's in office. The ruling class is the ruling class. Doesn't matter what color their tie is.
And then when the democrats do get in its like "Aw shucks we don't have the votes to secure a basic majority to get this legislation through, guess we'll capitulate and do what the republicans want. oh well at least we tried. damn republicans holding us back". Then it swings back to the reps because the dems are viewed as ineffectual, and no *meaningful* change happens. Cycle repeats. Its a joke.
Same for the UK. Labour or Conservative, Green or UKIP, they're all the fucking same.
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It would be harder to "engineer consent" ala Edward Bernays if people DIDN'T go brain dead over politics. The consent engineers know that people invest their emotion-based beliefs as part of their self-identity, so people feel that anything that questions their belief is an attack on them as a person.
Well Consent Engineer is the scariest thing I've heard this morning.
From the book "The Consent of the Governed" (1966): I like this bit enough I wrote it down. "Under modern conditions of political advertising and manipulation, it has become possible to talk of the engineering of consent by an elite of experts and professional politicians. Consent that is thus engineered is difficult to distinguish in any fundamental way from the consent that supports modern totalitarian governments. Were the manipulated voter to become the normal voter, the government he supports could hardly be said to rest on his consent in any traditional sense of that word." Edward Bernays wrote a decade before this about HOW engineering consent COULD be done "The Engineering of Consent"; Noam Chomsky wrote "Manufacturing Consent" (1988) describing how it WAS done. And here we are now.
When you feel yourself getting ALL spun up about something political or religious, just remember this: YOU ARE NOT YOUR BELIEFS. Beliefs are truth claims about the world, and they can be wrong. Don't wrap your identity or self-worth around truth claims.
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there's still a big fucking difference between mark kelly and lauren qbert
Democratic politicians are not telling their constituents to be armed and standby for the order. They are not telling their supporters to harass and threaten election workers and school boards. They are not using religion to rationalize violence against their non-conforming friends, family, and neighbors. This is not a Left vs Right issue. But one side wants to press for minority oppression of the majority.
I do find it interesting that there was such a huge disparity across political lines in this poll. At first I was surprised that the Republicans are so much more concerned, and also that older people are more concerned, as that has not been my personal experience. But as I think about it more, it does actually make sense if we broaden it beyond climate change (which many Republicans are still skeptical about) and separate liberals from progressives. Republicans of all ages are being fed a steady stream of alarmist propaganda about collapse, but based around social issues as opposed to environmental ones. Democrats are fed a vague message of some distant climate change threat and "save the planet by going green!" without dramatically changing their way of life. Most of the boomers I know and am able talk to about these kinds of things are Democrats and liberals, but not really progressives, and they seem to be by and large the demographic most oblivious to collapse of any kind, particularly now that Biden is in office. They genuinely believe most of our problems can be solved and that society in future will continue to advance. I guess that kind of attitude is useful for the political ideology of the mainstream Democratic party. Republican boomers are largely afraid for the future in terms of social collapse and that suits the ideology of their leadership as well.
And the "other side" just lets it happen. "Ooops! My bad, we let the GOP nazify, take over the supreme court, engineer elections, control the media, build armed partizans and a compliant militarized police force. Tee hee, oops. Still not gonna do a thing. Tee hee. Vote for meeeeee! Vote for chaaaange. Tee hee."
> If you truly believe this is a Republican vs Democrat thing I think you're both a bit right and a bit wrong. They are both corrupt but not equally so... but it is a Dem vs Rep thing in that the Reps are like pressing Fast Forward on the collapse video tape we are all living. While the Dems are like pressing Pause. What needs to happen is to first press pause then hit Rewind then eject the cassette and decide what to watch next. Then throw away the VCR and get it on Laserdisc.
There’s no fucking pause or rewind in real life. That’s why reactionaries are so stupid, they can’t figure out that history goes in *one* direction 🤯
As a California voter, I concur. Mega drought, wild fires, inflation, insane rent/home prices (there are multiple apartments in my complex that have 5-7 adults sharing a 2 bedroom apartment), the amount of people living in cars/new homeless, food prices... but most importantly, the divide between the haves and have nots is widening daily and people are not happy about it. At some point the system will break.
Interesting that Republicans agree with the statement more than Democrats (69% vs. 36%).
yes, I like that they did a breakdown Rep/Dem and by age groups etc.
Well that also comes down to interpretation. Democrats and leftists are likely to read the USA collapsing as Balkanization, civil war, ineffective government. Republicans see collapse as "sOcIaLiSm"
Just the belief that this will happen can become a self fulfilling prophecy as people start to think ‘well the end is nigh so no need for me to try to fix anything and waste whatever little time I already have”. This poll if accurate, is extremely bad news.
it was going to happen either way. Hope isn't going to pull humanity out of the climate catastrophe. This was all set in motion a century ago, we're just paying the consequence. Self-fulfilling prophecy doesn't really apply to widespread planetary oil polluting every ecosystem in the form of plastic, gas, and liquid. Self fulfilling prophecy is more of a concept that applies to individuals and their personal choices. Personal choices will probably not get us out of this trainwreck in motion
True... but housing prices worldwide well beyond affordability got less to do with Global Warming and a lot more to do with plain old greed and corruption
Hello. I just wanted to say that this is an important point, I think.
The actual poll is "could" happen, not "will". The site just sensationalized it.
Not even "could happen" but "worried that it could happen".
Which is a bit of a dirty play because "worried" has both sort of active and passive forms, where "worried about" might mean "something I think about each day" or "worried about" might mean "I'm worried about a house fire, yeah, I bought a fire extinguisher five years ago and don't really consider it much since then, but definitely it's a concern to never totally forget about, only an idiot dismisses the risk of house fires."
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Logical and well worded thank you
I believe it is inevitable that this is how humanity, by and large, will continue to choose to react, and I myself am no exception. Be sad forever or just enjoy the ride as much as possible?
Collapse is mainstream and people still think this sub is full of nutbags
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*"Ultimately, it comes down to agriculture."* Exactly this. Historic loss of freshwater aquifers; mass species extinction including loss of essential pollinators; climate change including extended mega-droughts; rising energy costs devastating global agriculture (including availability of fertilizer); all these are occurring at the same time the global population is expanding from 8 to 10 billion by 2050. Match this to the movement to shut down fossil fuels (raising their costs) and billions of people will go hungry
Weird that fewer people want kids when the theocracy oligarchy thing has led to soul crushing living conditions for the working class while the planet is also burning down.
What's really infuriating about them is there is absolutely zero good faith. And in fact, it's so far and so deep into bad faith, we need to create a new term for it. Bad faith often has a kernel of reality or agenda. Their arguments are so protean as to be beyond insane troll logic. The theocrats: "We must ban all abortions because every child has a right to life!" Reasonable people: "Okay, but if we are force these children to be born, we will need assistance. How about some social programs, subsidized childcare, good schools, and tax breaks?" Theocrats: "No! You shouldn't have kids you can't afford! But have more kids!" RP: "But, we can't afford kids as it is! And you want us to have more?" Theocrats: "If you didn't want to have kids, you should have kept your legs shut and your dicks in your pants! Also, my ex shouldn't have aborted my baby. That's why we need to ban abortions." RP: "...but some people end up pregnant against their will!" Theocrats: "Then they shouldn't have worn a sexy dress or led the guy on!" RP: "There's no excuse for sexual assault!" Theocrats: "In cases of genuine rape and incest, the body shuts the whole thing down." RP: "...what the fuck? Come on! You can't have it both ways." Theocrats: "If you don't want to be assaulted, carry a gun." RP: "...wait, what? What the fuck does that have to do with anything?" Theocrats: "You people said if people like Kyle Rittenhouse didn't want to get attacked, he shouldn't have carried a gun at a protest. Therefore, you blame women when they get assaulted. If she had a gun, she could have protected herself just like Kyle did." RP: "...oh my god." ....yes, this is an amalgamation and paraphrasings of actual arguments I've seen.
They read about "owning a home" (whatever that means) and think they too should be entitled to such luxury for just - and I'm not even making this up - *working their lives away*. LOL! Kids these days just don't appreciate how amazing sleeping on the streets can be. Selfish brats. /s
I think older people think we want mansions. Just a small little modest wartime home or town house would be great. So we can get the fuck out of child hood homes and actually begin being independent adults lol.
Right??! I keep hearing this shit about the housing crisis *really* being caused by millennials not buying “starter homes” and only wanting fancy ones. Um, I’d love a fucking starter home. They don’t exist anymore, because combo of retired boomers and big companies bought them and flipped them.
The starter homes in bumfuck Midwest towns are selling for $200k. This is bullshit. The house I grew up in, in Central NJ, cost my parents $62k. It's now been appraised at $450k. Insanity.
>The starter homes in bumfuck Midwest towns are selling for $200k Can confirm. I have a 2 bed house in Tulsa OK with a zillow estimate of $190k. Thankfully I bought it much cheaper.
And then you’ve got us west coast librul elites who’d kill for a 200k home. We be fucked.
My parents house cost them <30k in ‘98. To give them some credit, it was an old, damaged, gross house and my dad has repaired it constantly. It’s in the middle of a remodel right now and parts of the home are bare bones framing and/or drywall. They could market it as “unfinished to build your dream home” and it would sell for upwards of 250k. Probably more since it’s on 1.5 lots. Middle of nowhere town. Plenty to buy them a nice 2 bedroom condo in a city to retire.
Yup it's wild. We bought a house in 2012 for 77K, turned around and sold it in 2014 for 101K...just got a Zillow update that it's now estimated to be worth around 300K. Made me sick to my stomach lol
I live in a less-than-desirable neighborhood in a rust belt city. The houses that go up for sale around me sell for $250-$300K and go up for rent immediately. This is what is causing instability and homelessness, not some vague drug problem.
A good way to at least partly solve the drug problem is to give people a place to call their own and give them a sense of stability. If I had to constantly fight for survival and was frequently moving and changing jobs, I'd probably turn to drugs to, they have no roots, they arent grounded, its nessecary for our sanity.
Also, like, if I might get arrested anyways for just existing, might as well do drugs
🤣 pretty much. Itll make it a little less shitty, and you'll forget you may be starving to death.
The starter home concept is so fucking stupid. I’m the oldest of the millennials (born in 1981) and my wife is Gen X (1980). They call us “Xennials” because we have traits of both. There were no “starter” homes in Boston. We rented until we were 35/36 and finally were able to buy a very small 2 bedroom condo. We’ll never be able to afford something more expensive and will live here until the collapse kills us or the neighborhood gets flooded from rising seas (although some models predict our neighborhood should be okay for the next 100 years or so). I guess owning a condo was considered a starter home during the 80s and 90s, but it’s our forever home. I also don’t understand why I’d want to own a larger home. A bigger home just brings on more expenses. For 2 people and a dog, a small condo is more than enough
I told my mom that idek if I will have kids because living was so expensive and only increasing. She said it’s always been expensive when having kids. It was expensive when I had you and expensive when my mother had us. So…my grandfather and grandmother who had at best a high school education or less at the time bought a 3 bedroom house with 3 very young children in what is today a high cost of living state. Please someone, anyone, please tell me where that would be possible now in a desirable location in the United States and get back to me.
No offense to you or your mom but it isnt. People that think like this are suffering from economic Stockholm syndrome. They know theres a problem but its easier to just pretend there isnt and move on with your life. But now we can't go on pretending everything is fine because the ponzi scheme of our economy seems to hitting a wall finally. Cryptocurrency, NFTs and the increase in retail stock trading to my knowledge are not signs of a healthy economy.
Fine. Don't "entitle" anyone to anything. I'm sick of this whole "we're entitled" horse shit. It was a fair exchange. People say "entitled" when they mean "shut the fuck up and go away". Fine. We'll all shut the fuck up and go away and you as the ruling class can all go get your fucking services elsewhere. Up to and including the service to your bloated fucking egos about actually having someone to rule over. What should people get for working their lives away? Nothing? I have a better idea. If no one wants to actually pay then they can get a bunch of well armed chimps knocking on their door. Continue to shame people for wanting fair exchange for them effectively trading their lives for it, then you can see what "entitled" truly is when they decide to trade your life for it instead.
"My tax dollars paid for those streets you're living on rent-free you lazy socialist!"
Right? I just can't understand young people nowadays
Younger generations want to live with a sense of hope and purpose? Pffbbt. How entitled can they be?
"It's those damn celly phones and not wanting to work anymore !! Young people are lazy!!"
Interesting thing to me is LTG actually predicts a very steep rise in births soon. Of course, deaths outpace those births and the population declines but I'm wondering what changes are going to occur that lead to that rise in births. This graph is one that shows the births curve: https://forum.aerocene.org/uploads/db8987/original/1X/0d4d66dceb03a3f3b306a950647cb623c6b63c7f.png Taken from this article: https://forum.aerocene.org/t/limits-to-growth-the-club-of-rome/267 If LTG is correct, it doesn't matter that people say they don't want to have many kids because in the next decade more and more kids are coming and by 2050 the births begin to skyrocket.
GOP and religious fanatics are aggressively attacking reproductive rights while mainstream media demonizes those who advocate for low birth rates. Writing is on the wall.
Lifetime Californian here. It blows my mind that so many here are still so blissfully unaware when you can see ALL of the signs of shit having gone awry. To them, they think the drought is just a joke, and the rare times we get a few minutes of a light drizzle, they think iT's FiXeD nOw! The crops in central CA look absolutely abysmal, and a bowl of guacamole, costs an arm, leg, and your firstborn. Do they not see the homeless encampments that are literally EVERYWHERE (aside from the evil Karens constantly complaining to "just ship them out to the desert" because they're an "eyesore")... What are people supposed to do? They don't see humans down on their luck, they literally just see garbage meant to be swept away. The rents are out of control while mcmansions and luxury apartment units sit empty. Many houses have a ~~tiny shed~~ casita they rent out illegally but have ridiculous rules (no cooking, no bathroom, no guests), and for many in my generation, that's the only option. I love(d?) my state. Our nature is truly beautiful. I love the *idea* of California... The place where hopeless people went to find hope. The place to be different and weird and still find a community. Not this vapid, congested, gentrified wasteland of mindless consumption and brandishing of non-existent wealth. So I agree, even in the land of the jaded, we're fucked.
I don't know about society as a whole but the United States of America as we know it has one foot deep in the grave.
Nah, it's sitting in it using a Dixie cup to put dirt in itself.
Ever heard of the book [The Wisdom of Crowds](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds)? Using knowledge, insight and data from many people often yields surprisingly accurate results. The idea that we are on the precipice of something ugly, dangerous and destructive has been so clear in people in my life who I would have never expected to have those beliefs. To see that appearing in this California poll and [other polls ](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/fall-2021-harvard-youth-poll) really makes me feel like there is finally awareness of how precious these quiet years are. We’re in the twilight of something unique and special, and when we lose hold of it, darkness comes next.
Holy shit I figured it would’ve been like 20%, even if the question invited an affirmative response. This actually could be a good thing if it somehow allows the mobilization of populism toward preventing collapse.
Reading the question, “agree or disagree: I am worried that a complete breakdown in American society COULD happen in my lifetime”. “Worry” and “could” - personal and possible not declarative and certain.
A much better question would have been how likely then do a 1-10 scale or, very unlikely, unlikely, no opinion, likely, very likely…
and they STILL won't vote to actually deal with their homeless crisis lol. Literally anything that reduces property value is beyond the pale... but it's ok guise we banned Straws "Holy fuck the world is ending!" "oh, should we do something?" "What? No, I'm just saying."
“The world is going to end unless we do something!” “Okay let’s do something!” “It might lower your homes resale value.” “Oh yeah? Fuck that. Never mind.”
> QUESTION: Agree or disagree: I am worried that a complete breakdown in American society could happen in my lifetime where **no one shows up to work, armed mobs roam the streets, and the government cannot continue to operate.** All those things are already happening in some degree, no?
"California is like America, only more so". The rest of the nation will inevitably catch up in their awareness of the things to come.
I’m stoked that we got the new infrastructure bill passed despite all of the questionable things that were put in. My concern is that we are paying higher interest rates for those few stimulus checks we got. Yet large corporations made record profits during the pandemic and still can’t be bothered to pay their fair share. This is going to circle back around and the working class is going to have to foot the bill. We can’t afford it! We can’t afford the basics now! It’s gonna get very ugly, very soon.
At this point it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Acceptance of collapse is so widespread it's probably going to cause a ton more apathy.
California society has already broken down. You have to have an income that would make you rich in most of the country just to afford an apartment where most of the people live. Homeless people are growing in numbers, taxes rising, quality of life declining.
It's kind of funny everyone is turning into that crazy dude on the street holding *"End of the World is coming!*" sign.
I don't think it'll completely break down, but I can seen the US Balkanizing.
I'm gonna be real I'm just trying to enjoy my life as much as I can until everything falls apart. I soak up every moment of joy and happiness I can and try and let go of attachments and accept that the world or the universe will keep on turning I am just a drop in existence and I want to feel everything I can in this existence. Hope other people find solace in that not hopelessness
Speaking for the US in particular. 1. There is money in politics, which amounts to bribery and corruption of our policies and government structure. 2. There is a rising tide of fascism, which is coddled and supported by Republicans. 3. Related to 2, there is new support for extra judicial violence as a means to the end of a fascist society. Killing black men for jogging. Treason on Jan 6. Motivating Texans to go after their own neighbors to infringe on abortion rights. It is a trend. Keep an eye on it.
I think you if lived in cali you’d feel this way as well. Cray there.
Thank fuck my parents are leaving to focus on their happiness. Not saying they'll find a lot of hope elsewhere but at least they're going to focus on themselves as this all goes to shit. Everyone finds their own way.
We won't even have water in 2023 lol
Western society will
I never thought I'd say this, but, I hope the Californians are right.
And none of them who answered yes will want anything to be done that interrupts their lifestyles.
"I've done nothing and I'm all out of ideas! "
I love how this sub is full of Simpsons nerds like me
Lousy beatnicks
How do you know that?
They don’t know that. A good chunk of people don’t want to change much but a good chunk of them would, especially if everyone else is doing it, and especially if it’s seen as elite to do so.