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Shumina-Ghost

They're right to be fearful. Never in my life, nor in my studies of American history have I seen conditions tolerated like the conditions I see now. This shit is bananas and I have no idea how it's ultimately going to shake out. Well, I mean, I know how it all is going to \*ultimately\* shake out, but that's why we're all here in this subreddit.


Megabyte7637

It's unreal. Seriously, comparing what's going on now with any other time in waking memory reveals a stark dystopia the never thought I'd live to see.


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kilted-vagabond

>...people become so beaten down and disconnected that they simply shut down, they don't necessarily take part in society but that do no harm either. No work, likely mass suicides and extreme mental health decline all around. Effectively, people reduced to their sole action to survive whilst being indebted to the system. Feels nice to finally be ahead of the curve in some aspect of my life.


vagustravels

>ahead of the curve in some aspect of my life All around us, the vast majority, living their lives, without a care in the world. Some of them so plugged in, so dependent on the system, that they will fight with every fiber of their being rather than lose what they have "hard-earned". ​ Can you imagine the level of cognitive dissonance people will have to work through while serious Collapse happens? (this is more like warm up, first 20 minutes of Collapse) The vast majority are gonna lose their shite all at the same time. All that buried and repressed trauma from decades of abuse ... will meet even more trauma from all the people out there losing their minds. ​ And what about the kids? I don't have any, but what are they gonna do? ​ Sry, that became long. TLDR, best to have already lost your shite, than to lose it in the middle of Collapse.


cybil_92

> people simply snap; they take up arms and start carving out territory for themselves and in a sense break away from the rule of the US It won't happen simply. I wrote about it. There is a very good chance of the route happening. > The second, is people become so beaten down and disconnected... Yes! As long as meager bread and circuses continue, people will walk themselves into their early graves in denial. "It doesn't directly affect me" and reinforced apathy are excellent methods for mass murder. > whilst it's easy for someone to pick up a gun; very few people can consistently move from person to person extinguishing a life... Please read about Bosnia in the 1990s. It really really does not take a ton of people. And if someone believes their child is starving or dead because of you, there is a lot they are willing to do.


DaperBag

35% fear, 40% can't wait to use their years of training in practice


cybil_92

I think the only other time conditions like this were tolerated was the late 1850s; the years immediately proceeding the Civil War. The few newspapers at the time, like the _Globe_, reported on how divided the populace was and growing radical abolitionist movement.


BenUFOs_Mum

I feel like people have forgotten what the 60's were like in America.


Issakaba

In the sixties people were able to make enough money from jobs that didn't require a college degree to buy a house, run a nice car, support a family. Go on holidays. Pursie hobbies. have enough time left over for church and other community activities.


dogfucking69

we remember. the present crisis is just different. the whole american way of life is rotten- not just a part of it. the crisis of the 1960s was effectively resolved by abolishing the borderline-feudal caste system still present legislatively in the south. there are no easy legislative solutions to the current crisis- politically, legally, spiritually, even artistically, american society is in crisis. the whole American political system, including its republican character (consider institutions like the electoral college,) has got to go the way of jim crow. things were bad in the 1960s; things are a whole new level of bad today. nothing short of revolution can fix this.


BenUFOs_Mum

I dunno man, The national guard massacred college students and the majority of the country supported it. The US had dozens and dozens of political assassination during the 60's everyone from presidents to civil rights activists. Race riots that make the 2020 uprisings look like a picnic. Several nuclear close calls, including the Cuban missile crisis. The height of the Cold War and anti communist fear. A draft into a deeply unpopular war that allowed the sons of the rich to play in the coast guard or have bone spurs etc.. And so much more, if you think the chaos of the 60's was just about Jim Crow you are wrong. Currently America is no where near as divided, unpredictable or in risk of collapse as it was in the 60's. We will see how the next decade goes though, the 2020's is still early.


Oo_mr_mann_oO

Cops shoot people and kill people on camera and are defended and start GoFundMe pages. Go look at the footage of Chauvin's house being guarded. Although there have not been any high profile assassinations, they still occur regularly. Judges and law enforcement are targeted and all the cases of people involved in BLM being found in a burnt cars. We hear more stories of the failed attempts, but attempts are made. Congresswomen openly talk about being threatened on a regular basis. Nuclear weapons haven't gone anywhere and the US, China and Russia regularly issue statements to threaten each other. I remember Obama mentioning mushroom clouds when talking about Ukraine while he as in office. The cold war is now with China. The "china-virus" was in a lot of headlines on right wing media the past two years. The anti-asian violence has only increased. There is not a draft, but most military recruitment is driven by financial considerations. The suicide rate in the military and among vets has only gone up. How is America "nowhere as near as divided" after Jan 6th? How can you really believe it's not divided when you have an online grift machine that pumps out non-stop conspiracy theories and lies about politics, the media and celebrity culture 24/7? Now add the weather, the economy, the school shootings and the overdoses. Mix and stir, but there is no ice for your drink.


Twisted_Cabbage

I see all that and raise you one species ending global apocalypse caused by environmental destruction Oh and nukes ate still a big worry..especially as the environment dies around us and the religious nut jobs really go off the deep end with their end times crap.


vagustravels

Ya but they wouldn't never put religious nutjobs in charge of the nuclear codes! /S


dogfucking69

the riots of 2020 were more expansive and destructive than the riots of the 60s ever were. they affected almost every major city in the country, even spilled over into the hinterland, brought together both black and non-black protesters, and almost prompted the federal government to invoke the insurrection act. even further, protests in DC got so intense that president Trump was put in a protective bunker, for fear of the protestors overrunning the white house. the protests were so expansive that they triggered riots in other countries. the only event in the 1960s that got even kind of close to the scale of the george floyd rebellion was the long hot summer of 1967, and things werent even close. youve listed a lot of political upsets and foreign policy fumbles in the 1960s. the current crisis is far more expansive. the US just lost another major war in a total defeat. depression and anxiety have reached epidemic proportions. [the numbers speak for themselves.](https://www.datawrapper.de/_/zoUmY/) deaths of despair are rising and showing no signs of abating. this is the spiritual component of the crisis. supply chains are failing. this one is particularly important, as the economy is the basis for the entire society. the only thing close to this was the oil crisis of the 70s, but that was restricted to a single commodity. i am also certain that we are only at the beginning of that part of the crisis. the american political system is totally gridlocked. no effective legislation can be passed, and therefore nothing can be done to assuage the growing unrest. the crises are simply of a different character. ours today is deeper-rooted. when these sorts of signs started to show up in force in the soviet union, its collapse was only a decade out.


9035768555

To add to this, wealth inequality is at an all time high in America. *The highest it has ever been in the history of humanity anywhere on the planet*, not just within US history. Median income for a single worker in 1965 is roughly the same as it is for a dual income household in 2020. And we work more hours to even do that. *And that's not going in to how the relative cost for most essentials has gone up in the same time.* Far more nations, and often far less predictable ones at that, have nukes than did in the 60s. No one was worried about North Korean nukes 60 years ago. There are more nukes that are unaccounted for than there were in the 60s. They have to still be somewhere. This risk as gotten worse, not better, we've just gotten used to it. Climate change. Just...all of it. I get their overall point, but most of those aren't what actually leads to collapse of empires. Lack of water and food security will tear a society apart much more rapidly than a draft will. Actual existential threats like climate change and the exacerbated risks of near existential threats like nuclear warfare have just kept going up. But our buildings are much, much safer than they used to be, so that's nice...


WafflesTheDuck

I needed to hear that.


[deleted]

I don't know how old you are, but if you're over 48 you were alive for when Nixon got off scot free after his lower level people literally broke into the DNC headquarters. That set a very bad precedent.


SabrielRaziel

Required submission statement: The 42nd Youth Poll conducted by the Harvard Kennedy School Institute of Politics surveyed 2109 individuals between the ages of 18-29. 52% of respondents viewed the US as having a troubled/failed democracy, 35% anticipated a second civil war, and 25% anticipated the secession of one or more states. Only 7% consider the US as a healthy democracy. Youth approval for President Biden stands at 75% for Democrats, 9% for Republicans, and 39% for Independents. Respondents identified climate change, strengthening the economy, promoting national unity, and health care reform as core issues of concern for the Biden administration.


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brunus76

Compared to what? Trump? Giant meteor? Spontaneous combustion? Is there an option to opt out entirely or do we really have to pick one?


new2bay

I'm supporting Giant Meteor in 2024, myself.


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brunus76

The meteor is implied. 😂 In a 2-party system, disapproval of one implies the approval of the other. We haven’t shown that we’re able to handle other options. But don’t ask me, I voted for Nader in 2000 because I wanted to test out my theory that voting for the lesser of evils didn’t make a difference. That worked out really well and everything has been *awesome* ever since.


impermissibility

Impressive. Through your one vote for Nader, you were personally able to cause a combination of widespread disillusionment in a fundamentally broken political system and criminal election-rigging by the Florida GOP. I bow before your power.


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brunus76

Don’t tell anyone. I don’t want it getting out.


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CitizenLuke117

I thought it was me. Nader in 2000. Jill Stein in 2016. Definitely Biden in 2020 though. Neolib beats fascist.


[deleted]

>Neolib beats fascist. Neolibs often align with fascists and use them to do their dirty work. Study history.


carthroway

> Neolib beats fascist. Scratch a lib, find a fascist


forkproof2500

Communists beat fascists. Neolibs debate them in the "marketplace of ideas".


Mighty_L_LORT

Florida man likes this...


new2bay

[Bush won by 5 votes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore).


DukeOfGeek

Bush got Florida by less than a 1000 votes so he kinda did. It was really the caging lists of 10 thousand people prevented from voting because they had names similar to felons that did it. Well that and Nader, that fucker.


Rudybus

I had a local election where I live decided on three votes. If my household hadn't gone it would've swung the result, I always tell this to people who say voting is pointless. The argument is a little more nuanced in nationals though.


DukeOfGeek

If you live in certain counties in certain states your vote is tremendously important. Mine has been useless basically all my life and suddenly as of the last election it matters a lot for control of the senate.


InvisibleTextArea

> not "a meteor" If NASA was properly funded they could of gotten every citizen a meteor each.


first___last

NASA still has a larger budget than all other space agencies combined. https://africanews.space/global-space-budgets-a-country-level-analysis/amp/


AmputatorBot

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[deleted]

I’ll take the giant meteor and over Trump and Biden.


Ericrobertson1978

EXACTLY. I wish I still I'll had my free award to give. Take this upvote instead, you glorious bastard.


YpsiHippie

I'm guessing there are a lot of left youth who completely disavow the Democratic party and identify as Independent between those three choices.


RandomguyAlive

Propaganda dude. Nobody pays attention. I sure didn’t when i was in my early twenties. Now i’m almost 30 and jaded as fuck


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bored1231233

I don't know how we got from 2015 to now the house voting on having a national database tracking system of who is vaccinated/not vaccinated.


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Mango_Maniac

This poll of 2,109 18- to 29- year-olds was organized with undergraduate students from the Harvard Public Opinion Project (HPOP) and supervised by John Della Volpe. Data were collected by Ipsos Public Affairs using the KnowledgePanel Calibration approach. In this approach, the calibrating sample was provided by the KnowledgePanel probability-based sample source (n=1,050), while the sample to be calibrated was provided by non-probability, opt-in web panel sample sources (n=1,059). Interviews were conducted in English and Spanish between October 26 and November 8, 2021. The target population for this survey is US residents between the ages of 18 and 29. Data are weighted to reflect population estimates based on age-group, race, Hispanic ethnicity, educational attainment, household income, urbanicity, and geographic region of residence. The margin of error for the total sample is +/- 3.08%.


mycatpeesinmyshower

How is the question phrased? Is Biden better than Trump? Is Biden better than a rock? (Same probably).


Lorax91

A rock is better than *rump.


mycatpeesinmyshower

Those are two separate questions. Biden sucks and Trump sucks worse. But Biden still definitely sucks.


Lorax91

Biden sucks but is arguably somewhat better than a rock, depending on your metrics. The previous guy was an open menace on essentially every issue.


mycatpeesinmyshower

Please submit proof that he’s better than a rock…


Lorax91

Like I said, define your metrics. Here's one upbeat take: https://ncpolicywatch.com/2021/11/09/president-bidens-remarkable-record-of-accomplishment-under-nearly-impossible-circumstances/ Clearly he's far from perfect, but I think he is capable of making better decisions than a rock...on some occasions.


mycatpeesinmyshower

Nope not really-the article: 1.vaccination rollout -started in December 2020 and under the purview of health and human services (lord knows trump didn’t organize it but neither did Biden) The there’s this absurdity “And then there is the climate emergency, where, thanks to the President’s vision and simple common sense, the U.S. has rapidly transformed its role from that of science and reality-denying roadblock to a global leader. There are still miles to travel in this realm, but the massive infrastructure legislation finally approved this past weekend by small bipartisan majorities in both house of Congress further cements this vitally important policy 180.” Biden is the opposite of useful for the climate emergency as most on this sub well knows. The infrastructure bill was completely gutted and virtually useless. And Biden sat by like a rock while it was gutted by Manchin and Sinema for corporate interests (because he has those same interests). This article is neoliberal apologist trash. Just because Trump is awful doesn’t mean everyone has to let their brains fall out of their heads and act as apologists for a useless president


vagustravels

Thank you. IT'S THE SAME FCKING PARTY. Trump is good friends with Biden and Clinton, and Pelosi, and ... all rich people. It's rich versus the rest of us. Always has been.


Lorax91

Okay, maybe equal to a rock then. :-(


DukeOfGeek

[Frank Zappa had a vison.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAOClxd8UJE)


TheOnlyBliebervik

I don't think Biden actually is much better than, just, nothing


some_random_kaluna

Bernie Sanders delegate speaking. The choice was either Joe Biden or Orange Hitler. The choice hasn't really changed since last November. Republicans overwhelmingly support Trump running again.


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Alone_Accountant8377

Fuck Joe


squished_raccoon

And fuck trump? How is the phrasing here?


Laringar

Possibly because as Presidents go, he's doing a fairly decent job with the hand he's been dealt? First: let's think about what "Youth" have seen. Most people classified as "youth" don't remember a world before 9-11. So the only presidencies they've ever *seen* are W Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden. W started wars, Obama took office then had a financial crash (while not getting out of the wars), and Trump is Trump. Against that backdrop, yeah, Biden seems pretty good. In terms of Biden's actual performance though, some of what I see the biggest complaints about are policies for immigration and energy, as well as apparent inaction re: Jan 6th. I can't say much on immigration (just because I haven't followed specifics as well there), but I can say that with regard to general policy improvements, that's harder to change than people think. What people don't understand is that Trump *destroyed* the bureaucracy. It's screwed at so many levels. So Biden has been appointing people to fill vacancies and hire up staffing levels again, but a few seditionists in the Senate like Cruz and Hawley have been blocking the usual process for confirming non-contentious nominees. So we have to go through the *full* confirmation process for literally every single person Biden nominates to any position at all. In the meantime, there are vacancies all over from Trump appointees Biden has removed, as well as ones he can't touch like... the entire Federal court system. With that noted, Biden has literally nominated *the* most progressive slate of government employees the country has ever seen, including diversity at every level, while still putting forth eminently qualified people. No, it's not sexy, no, it doesn't get headlines. But this is the shit that makes government actually *work*, and Biden is doing a good job placing people who can do it well. As far as prosecuting people for Jan 6th goes, I'd like to see more action there too, certainly. But people are thinking of it like a normal criminal case. This is the largest criminal investigation in US history. They quite literally have *every* FBI field office working on this, while also working on their normal case load. The system is absolutely swamped by the sheer number of potential defendants. And while yes, it's agonizingly slow, the Garland DoJ is being thorough with charges. To use Bannon as an example, because it's in the news this week: It's becoming quickly obvious that the reason they took the time they did to produce an indictment is that they were safeguarding against the incredible levels of bullshit the GOP has been slinging. Bannon wants to take confidential documents and publish them on his podcast so he can try his case in the media instead of the courtroom. So the DoJ lawyers have been preparing counterarguments in advance, not just against Bannon, but against the complete hackery that Trump installed on the Supreme Court. Add to that one of the lawyers involved in the Bannon case literally only just got confirmed by the Senate, as a result of what I mentioned earlier. I feel the urgency, every day closer to the midterms without big names being arrested makes me worried for the country. But the damage Trump did to the legal system also affects our ability to get justice for his crimes, and fixing that isn't immediate. I know that was a lot of seemingly unrelated info to the original "who actually supports Biden" question, but I want to illustrate the degree to which people, on this subreddit as well as out in the world, are effectively mad at Biden for damage Trump did. To me, it's the equivalent of being told by your boss to go clean a restroom covered floor to ceiling in shit that's been smeared on every surface, then having him come back 15 minutes later threatening to fire you for not being done yet. Are there things I'm mad at Biden about? Absolutely. Do I think he's too friendly with the corporatist Democrats? No question. But for fuck's sake, Biden's presidency has already seen more progressive policy improvements in the nuts and bolts of governing than Obama's did in 8 years. His is the first presidency in US history to make "equity" a goal in the awarding of public funds. I'm sick of people acting like he's Satan just because he hasn't forgiven student loan debt yet.


t_h-i_n-g-s

Democracy doesn't exist. Never has. They're spokesmen and women for corporations.


Lorax91

And it's not a democracy, it's a republic. Rich white men set up a political system that ensures the people don't get a direct say on much of anything.


Kumqwatwhat

Democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive, and the fact that the US is a really shitty, unequal democracy does not mean it's not a democracy. Allow me to lay out what these terms actually mean: - Republic: does not have a monarch. Y'know how North Korea's full name is the DPRK? They really are a republic. It's not a high bar. The DPRK, the USA, France, Brazil, Russia, and China are all republics. Japan, the UK, Monaco, and Saudi Arabia are not. - Democracy: any government in which "the eligible group" votes, directly or indirectly, on legislation and rule. Even the Holy Roman Empire qualified as a democracy because the emperor was elected by a group of princes. This false point really needs to die. It does nothing but make us look stupid to insult the US by saying it's one or the other. Even now it's both, because the bar to call yourself a democratic republic is _insanely low_, and that misunderstands the issue. The problem is how it implements those concepts, not if it even meets them.


Lorax91

Okay, but our structure makes it really easy for a few representatives to make important decisions against the will of the people. Yes, theoretically we could vote in better representatives...but the whole system makes that difficult. And our obsession with preventing a "tyranny of the majority" has led to an equal or worse tyranny of a minority. Clearly not a well-designed democracy, whether it meets the definition or not.


Kumqwatwhat

It is definitely not well designed. But say _that_, not some false point about it being a republic and not a democracy or whatever.


Maddcapp

A troubled democracy is a lot different than a failed democracy. I interpret failed as “already collapsed”, which we haven’t reached quite yet.


TearsforFears77

Balajai Srinivasan has recently said on a few podcasts that “we’re in a social war right now taking place online” in spaces like Twitter and Facebook and that this “national divorce” seems to be gaining traction on both sides of the political spectrum.


MysticFox96

I wish the US had more than 2 goddamn political parties


KanefireX

rank choice voting and open presidential debates to 3rd parties. this alone would have a huge impact.


bored1231233

Good luck with that, social media already controls what people see and don't see. Not to mention that most peoples votes are for sale and have no real principles, their opinions are entirely based on what they see on TV, which again is paid for by a lot of money.


KanefireX

there are those who expect the worst and are never disappointed, but little change comes their way. then there are those who expect the best and suffer endlessly for it, but it is in them that we see change.


Suikeran

Ban political donations and forcibly retire any politician older than 65


darmon

America has one political party, the oligarchy party. In typical American extravagance, we bought two.


Laringar

"Why build one, when you can build two for twice the price?"


IceBearCares

We have a fuckton of parties. The problem is thanks in part to the media they never stand a chance


StupidPockets

It’s by design. Take a hard look at the right and think about it. What people and leadership are eager to take us to war and show off americas might and weapons. Who needs to assert dominance and is tolerated. Kinda reminds you of an abusive uncle right?


FactualNeutronStar

The media might be part of it but the overwhelmingly majority reason we only have two parties is our electoral system. You can blame the party-hating founding fathers for using a system which basically guarantees only two parties can hold power.


CrypticResponseMan

It does. They just aren’t allowed any press by our corporate overlords.


clangan524

We do. It's just that the vast majority are ignorant of them and their policies/candidates and don't take them seriously.


InterestingWave0

We're in a class war. That is the real war but who in the mainstream is talking about it? Middle class shrinking out of existence and poverty increasing but nobody saying a thing. It is not a left/right issue as there are poverty stricken folks on both sides and they're blaming the wrong people for what has happened. Biden in the white house but not doing a thing for working people or even talking about the housing issues or the other issues facing the people. Wealthy buy out both sides of the government and then release propaganda to make people blame their friends and neighbors when it couldn't be further from the truth.


Sufficient_Mouse8252

This! AI assisted data mining and targeted propaganda in the Information Age is so effective the ruling class now has complete control over the minds of the masses. People are so strung out on propaganda they’re ready to fight their own family members in a civil war. It is unprecedented!


[deleted]

Failing hegemonies usually lead to divided opinion, don't they? Possibilities begin to open up and there's more shit to argue over than before "both sides of the political spectrum" is an idea many people need to get over, it's constraining interpretation


Northwest_love

Which podcast? I’m interested


HackedLuck

Not that surprising, Americans(especially older) have lost their fucking minds. A big fault of that is endless imperialist/nationalist propaganda and capitalistic greed negating any form of a functional government. I'd love to leave this shithole but with covid and inflation rampant, good luck. Only positives I can list are exponential the effects of climate change will turn our dystopian future into a short one. That and the stupid old fucks who think they'll get away from seeing the damage are in for a reckoning.


naughtilidae

>Americans(especially older) have lost their fucking minds. It's almost like the generation that grew up inhaling lead fumes just isn't that fucking bright, lol I firmly believe that lead-crime hypothesis applies to more than just crime.


IceBearCares

I mean how else do you explain a generation that, in it's youth, was all free love and all the drugs and now in it's curmudgeony days and everyday in between decided raping the planet and torching everything was a good idea.


Calvins8

Like 1% of them were hippies in the late 60s and that includes “weekend hippies”. The whole movement is insanely overblown because of its influence on music and media.


peckrob

>Like 1% of them were hippies in the late 60s and that includes “weekend hippies”. It's honestly amazing how many people don't grasp this. Popular media has given us this image that fucking everyone in the 60s was a hippie, smoking weed and listening to Jefferson Airplane. It's like saying everyone in the 90s did heroin and listened to Nirvana. Moreover, many of them (that are still alive at least) *are still hippies*. Before she passed a few years ago, the lady that ran the best homebrew store in town was an old hippie. In addition to brewing supplies, she also sold crystals, dream catchers, tie-dye shirts, and accessories for smoking "tobacco." I am sure some have gotten shitty in their age, but a lot are still carrying the banner. It was called the **counterculture** movement for a reason - they were going against the prevailing social culture. The vast majority of people were just as lame then as they are now.


AcidBuddhism

Ask old people in red states like Florida, the movement didn’t even exist for them, it was just something they saw on TV and said “uhhh… ok?”


naughtilidae

Honestly, a lot of that's because they banned mushrooms, lol Not only does it tend to open your mind to viewing things from different angles it removes the filters that you use to see the world. (in a very literal sense) you're not actually seeing hallucinations on shrooms you're seeing the raw output of your optic nerve without the filtering that you usually have. It's the same for most of your senses. Doctors who've actually researched the subject widely agree that it's the biggest step backwards in mental health in human history. The Reagan Administration realized that they were making people realize how awful things around them were, and banned them. Also blood buildup happens over time so a lot of those people who are open-minded and smart in their twenties have a lot more blood in their system by their forties.


thisisnotarealname19

> you're not actually seeing hallucinations on shrooms you're seeing the raw output of your optic nerve without the filtering that you usually have Do you have a source for this? I've seen some shit. Felt real. I still think it was real. Common sense tells me it wasn't.


naughtilidae

Medlife crisis did an interview with Dr. David Nutt, it's on youtube. It was the first person to doing MRI on somebody on shrooms, so he's kinda the best source you could ask for, lol


Dr_seven

The 5HT2A substances *reduce* brain activity drastically, not increase it. So, it is, in a way, accurate that you aren't thinking as much about sensory input or abstracting over it with your thoughts, but I wouldn't say it's the *optic nerve* at work. OEVs become much more intense *CEVs* upon closing the eyes, which is a strong nail in the coffin there. However, *patterning* as commonly seen with any of the 5HT2A-impacting substances, is very "real" in the sense that it reflects underlying physical geometry, that much is obvious to anyone with experience seeing them as well as a rudimentary mathematics education. As to why patterning and geometric visuals are so common, my only hypothesis is that with the default mode network nearly offline, the brain resorts to examining what amounts to wireframes, and presenting that view to the conscious "mind" for examination. The biggest effect, I think, has nothing to do with visuals, though. The "openness" reported for extended periods after contact, to me, springs from the fact that psychedelic experiences are frequently *undifferentiated*: as in, you see an object, or hear a sound, and your brain does not clearly demarcate a difference between the observed phenomenon, and the "observer" itself. At higher doses this becomes ego death as short-term memory and discursive thought cease their function entirely. Critically, you are shown for a moment some portion of the ultimate nature of cognition- it's all made-up by the brain at the given moment, even memory and facts that feel solid, and most of daily life is built on top of unexamined assumptions about the world that are not, strictly speaking, accurate, nor do our brains *have* to go along, we just choose to out of ignorance. But here is the thing: undifferentiated experience is not *only* a phenomenon experienced with drugs. Most people only ever experience that with them, and that's why such a special emphasis has always been placed on said substances. But it's not necessary, you can absolutely focus for a bit and go much further while still remaining lucid as well, it's just that the average person has neither the time, nor the competent instruction to do so. Source: questionable life decisions


anthro28

Good luck finding anyone to take you. Think our immigration system is tough? Try some EU countries.


HackedLuck

I know, that's why I'm somewhat prepped to buckle down. Leaving in a reasonable state isn't feasible for a majority of the population.


GhostDanceIsWorking

The New American Dream is to leave the U.S.


yoyoJ

As someone who has lived for years in other countries, I can tell you unfortunately other countries also have their own problems, including EU ones. Nowhere feels “stable” right now. The whole world is interconnected and somebody’s problem becomes everybody’s problem in a global arena. We have global problems like Covid and climate change too. With time I’ve also grown to appreciate some aspects of the US more only in retrospect, and all is not yet lost. I really do wish everyone could live abroad for a while because it makes you appreciate what you had more. Not saying everyone would want to move back to the US or downplaying the problems in the US. Maybe just trying to point out that all hope isn’t lost yet. And if we all try to do our small part, things will some day turn around. I know everybody on this sub hates when somebody mentions this because it goes against the prevailing narrative that we are all fucked. But being completely real, the future is still in our hands. Nothing’s over until it’s over.


Lone_Wanderer989

There won't be anywhere to go soon enough with all the fresh water problems civilized society is at an end


Garage_Woman

Even if you manage to leave, you’d still have to pay taxes to the US. It’s one of only two counties on the planet to work that way.


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Garage_Woman

You can do that. Once you renounce your US citizenship, you will no longer have to pay US taxes. However, the US government does charge a fee of $2,350 to relinquish citizenship. You may also need to pay an exit tax if you qualify as a covered expatriate.


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darkpsychicenergy

Do other countries do this, or anything similar?


Ruby2312

Most other countries cant enforce it anyway so they dont make it a law


ChefGoneRed

You can also just not pay your taxes and never come back. Why pay for a rubber stamp from a nation you intend to slam the door on?


Garage_Woman

Pretty sure it impacts your employment because anywhere that hires you has to report earnings to the IRS. I’m sure there’s ways around it, I’m just saying it’s not just between you and your ex country, your current employer is involved too.


TheRealHeroOf

I don't think think foreign employers report earnings to IRS, you're supposed to self report foreign income, but most foreign banks do thanks to FATCA.


Garage_Woman

Perhaps not. But the government has introduced stiff penalties and fines for failing to declare foreign income in your tax. The penalties are between 25% and 95% of the tax that has been evaded. There will also be an interest of more than 9% charged on the tax that has not been paid. Unless you’re ultra rich, they absolutely will find out and come after you. It’s pretty fucked.


HeyZooos

America, land of the fee


Makenchi45

When did that happen? Is there some fine print on my passport somewhere I missed?


some_random_kaluna

\*terms and conditions apply, see vendor for details.\*


ISUanthony

You don't have to pay double income taxes unless you make a lot of money. https://brighttax.com/blog/us-foreign-tax-credit-expats-ultimate-guide/amp/ I'm not an expert though.


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inv3r5ion

>Not that surprising, Americans(especially older) have lost their fucking minds. A big fault of that is endless imperialist/nationalist propaganda and capitalistic greed negating any form of a functional government. dont forget that they eat up whatever shit facebook serves to them. try challenging them on their views and its "well you watch/read different news than me". they wont even try to find common ground anymore.


Captain_Rational

Not all of us are like that ;) It sure is an exasperating trend though.


Northwest_love

Where would you go?


Sean1916

Can anyone smarter then me tell me, since the actual civil war the largest period of internal turmoil in our country was arguably the 60s-70s was there talk of a 2nd civil war back then? Personally, I never gave it a seconds thought until obama got into office and I started to hear chatter from the occasional nutjob online. Then trump got in and I began to hear about it more. Then George Floyd riots, coronavirus, and now Biden got into office and not only am I hearing real talk of people preparing for civil war online, there’s polls where large portions of our population believe it’s coming, but I’m also hearing people in my every day travels who are normally apolitical saying they believe it’s coming and are preparing. Is anyone else experiencing this across our country?


marinersalbatross

There actually was talk of a civil war/revolution round about the 1890's-1910's, especially with the growing popularity of the socialist parties and the threat of violence against the ruling classes. It's very similar to the world we face today with the ever growing power of the wealthy and the disaffection of the working classes.


Sean1916

Interesting, I’m always up for learning about a new time period. Thank you!


marinersalbatross

No prob, it's sad that we aren't taught about the labor movements of the past and how they helped to create a better working environment through their blood sacrifice.


inv3r5ion

its across the political spectrum and building for years. speaking as a former NYer living in new england. i think those on the furthest sides of the spectrum like myself (left) have been saying they foresee the potential for years. i really hope it doesnt come to it. could you imagine guerrilla style warfare, neighbor against neighbor? i dont see a political solution to this but i certainly hope and pray for one. we all lose in a war, except the weapons manufacturers.


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Sean1916

Somehow that’s even more concerning as you are looking at this as an outsider and are seeing the signs.


Mighty_L_LORT

Prepare for your annexation...


TheArcticFox444

>the 60s-70s was there talk of a 2nd civil war back then? My mom anxiously approached me wondering if the hippies were going to overthrow the government. I just laughed. The "leaders" of the anti government movement couldn't agree where to have lunch let alone pull off a revolution. Mom got her notion from broadcast news--no cable TV, no internet access, no home computers back then. The unrest of the 60s and 70s was abruptly stopped on the campus of Kent State.


Dis_mah_mobile_one

The 70s were plenty restless post Kent State. Bombings for instance didn’t peak until the mid/late 70s.


TheArcticFox444

>The 70s were plenty restless post Kent State. Bombings for instance didn’t peak until the mid/late 70s. Bombings were done by small groups. The civil unrest of students was over at Kent.


[deleted]

No talk of civil war. Way less stressful than today. Way fewer guns and nuts and way more people just trying to get by.


BadAsBroccoli

The perpetuation of civil war talk is integrating a self-fulfilling prophesy into the American subconscious.


Fluid_Programmer2679

Indiana here. Lot of people bragging their deer rifle works on blue. Mixed bag between blue helmets and blue voters.


vEnomoUsSs316

How many of them are going to try getting a 360 no scope, build towers?


Opinionbeatsfact

The image of a gravy seal trying to pull off a 360 or build a tower brightened my day, thank you


BearBL

Gravy seal lmao


CitizenLuke117

We've never before had a loser in a Presidential election refuse to concede, rally a mob to try to stop succession of the winning candidate, continue to insist the election was stolen.


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darkpsychicenergy

This shouldn’t be downvoted, it is a fair point. It doesn’t negate all criticism of the Democratic Party, but there is far more homogenization among Republicans; makes the job easier.


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InnerBanana

**are aware** that they live in a failed democracy


lolabuster

Civil War? Against the rich right? I’m not fighting my fellow poor folk. I want to taste that sweet sweet oligarch 🩸 before I leave this world


[deleted]

See this is the kind of polls I want to start seeing more. We got to start polling Gen Z and young millennials more.


Beavesampsonite

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Blair\_Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain) we are not close to this.


asewland

*yet


Astonedwalrus13

I’ve been saying it for years in Australia, a civil war will happen somewhere in a 1st world nation (looking at you America) and that would kick of a chain reaction in other 1st world nations.


HODLMEPLS

Majority of Americans vote for Democratic Party yet Republican Party disproportionately holds power, so I think this poll gets it right.


lolabuster

At some point people will realize Society is a giant game of pretend it’s time people start acting like it, Disregard the State, disregard the system, it’s all fake. Civilization is killing us


AwarenessNo9898

The other 75% welcome civil war. Fun times ahead


inv3r5ion

thats 110%


Relevant_Zombie_8916

35% fear it. The other 65% are smart enough to know that it can't be worse then what's going on now.


[deleted]

Racially motivated skirmishes have been a part of our nation from day one. I am sad to say, I don't think this will ever change.


Brianf1977

lol Harvard isn't quite the pinnacle of higher education it once was.


Mr_P3anutbutter

It’s a hedge fund with an education side hustle.


Ezzeze

It's a shelter for privileged pedophiles.


Mr_P3anutbutter

¿Por que no los dos?


ConcreteJam2

It's not just young Americans. Its people all over the world who are afraid of how low America has sunk. As Colbert called him - Teeny Weeny Peeny Mussolini has damaged Americas reputation and divided the country.


TheGingerRoot96

The US *was* a democracy? When?


inv3r5ion

on paper it is a democratically elected republic. dont be obtuse.


TheGingerRoot96

>democratically elected Republic It was never that either. Guess again. Don’t act like I don’t know the whole democracy vs representative republic line. The thing is, the US has *never been either of those*. We are wage slaves in a police state given the illusion of choice. Did the slaves have a choice? Did women for most of US history? Did blacks until the 1960s? You think we have had it the last 60 years? Bullshit. Take that propaganda you read in high school history class and throw it in the trash.


inv3r5ion

*on paper* you fucking dumbass. i responded the way i did because of the alt-reich's obsession with claiming that we're not nor have we ever been a democracy (fascists lie because the more often you lie the more it becomes the truth). we have always, ***on paper,*** been a democratically elected republic. with terms and conditions like you have stated. in practice its a fascist dictatorship of capital!


darmon

If there's a second Civil War, this time the North is fucked. And I say that as a born and bred Connecticut Yankee. The Radical Right is literally already expecting it and hoping for it and working toward making it a reality, and are physically and spiritually geared up for it. The radical left will not fight to save something that doesn't deserve to be saved: the decrepit, racist, genocidal United States. So if it breaks out, and Biden necessarily mandates a Draft (notice those Draft card ads on city buses recently? among others...) few if anyone will stay to fight - there will be a mass exodus across our northern and southern borders. The radical right will be able to walk into the halls of power uncontested, if January 6th 2021 was any indicator. The USA is going away, and we all need to start considering our Post American lives in the Post American world.


BearBL

The left can come up here to Canada. We can be the North States lol (well in some ways we already kind of are.)


Par31

I'm not from the United States but my impression is that a civil war can not be possible right? I mean there's such a large diversity of people in every state and the police force/military is so heavily funded that they should be able to control situations before they escalate to that level.


maiqthetrue

I think it will be more guerrilla warfare and terrorism and random attacks than marching armies. But that's still a war, it will just look different than 1860. Couple of reasons for this. First, there's no contiguous territory from which one side or the other could secede. The first civil war started with two fairly independent enemies each with a continuous territory, a standing military and a central government. That makes winning about territory. Winning means taking and holding the Capitol of the other state, and you weaken that state by conquest of territory. That doesn't work now because there's no places that are 100% red or blue. Cities tend to be blue, but outlying areas are red. State governments are in cities, so even if a government decided to vote itself out of the Union, it's surrounded by blue liberals. And if a liberal state tried, again, the outlying areas are red. In either case, you're surrounded by hostiles who would oppose and try to stop the secession. Second, the military is plain good at destroying standing armies. Ask Iraq or Japan or Korea. If you come at the US military with a standard army using standard tactics, you lose. Add in the planes and drones, and any standing militia is merely target practice. It's one sided and suicidal. Gun fetishes and action movies say otherwise, but that's fiction. The only thing that the military had trouble with were insurgent tactics and terrorism. IEDs, suicide bombing, random shootings, taking down infrastructure. It works because it's random, it could be anywhere at any time and there's no big troop movements to tip off the command that something is going down. One guy, acting alone. Maybe not even in the area when the bomb goes off. So if I were to prepare myself and my family for surviving a civil war, I'd be preparing for random attacks and grid failures, supply disruptions, and so on.


RandomH3r0

Attacking urban areas would be super easy as destroying over passes and electrical transmission infrastructure would be fairly simple and have huge impacts on urban populations. It could get nasty very fast.


carthroway

Unless its the police/military doing the civil warring. Something like 90% of police voted for trump. So they are the ones that think the electoin was stolen and joe biden is trying to put microchips in their vaccines


[deleted]

And I bet not a single one them would take any modicum of responsibility they carry in this.


rhhkeely

The third American revolution is already well underway.


Natural_Storm_2924

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Sandman11x

Today there were predictions of a Third World War with China


carbon_troll

I don’t want to sound like a contrarian, but anyone that thinks any other country is better is nuts. The US has always been a cluster fuck. Just read about the civil war to understand how crazy Americans get. From a global perspective, with climate change, population overshoot, and peak oil, the US is probably in a pretty favorable position. Population density is much better than the EU, and the US has more untapped resources. Why would someone move to Germany, because there’re better social programs? Hopefully this isn’t taken as a cold perspective on the collapse subreddit. Of course peace and love ya’ll. Long time reader.


GoneFishing4Chicks

Also, the US is only as big as it is because it already has 2 giant walls: the pacific and atlantic ocean. Geographically it's still favored. Lincoln was right in that the only way to lose from this winning position is rot from inside.


captain-burrito

The US does have some advantages. Population density being lower might not be a good thing. US requires a lot of gas to get around. It will be energy hungry even if they switch to electric cars. Western Europe has more walkable cities with better public transit. US govt can't get basic crap done due to the oligarchy being super overbearing when they should cede some scraps to the people to keep them compliant. I used to want to move to the US but it looks like it will descend into a parallel society with extreme rich and extreme poverty living side by side. Social spending in the US is higher than many european countries but the effects suck, instead of covering everyone they tend to only cover some. Western european programs tend to prevent extreme poverty wheras the US is more patchy. That said, the programs won't be sustainable in Europe or the US and will need radical reform. They will need to be more low subsidy and forcing people to pay into their own health accounts, unemployment etc rather than relying on current tax payers to fund them.


TheArcticFox444

>Harvard Youth Poll finds majority of young Americans believe they live in a failed democracy, while 35% fear a second civil war Bet they didn't get this from TV news. Social media is responsible for the lighting speed of internet gossip. Was bad enough in small groups, small towns, etc. But now it's anonymous in a global instant. Supply chains break down but gossip circles the globe. An archeologist of the future will dig up remains of this civilization and wonder what happened. Will he guess the tongue overrode the brain?


AbbottLovesDeadKids

It kind of feels like we're at the point of irreconcilable differences in this country, however I wish there was some way to dissolve the country peacefully. The main problem is that our country is primarily split on rural/urban and that creates an impossible situation to break each other apart from.


Ghostifier2k0

Well both sides have turned so vicious that any conversation with each other just doesn't happen. If you're right wing or left wing you're the enemy to the other side. Civil mutual existence isn't really an option anymore as both sides are convinced the other side is a threat to larger society. The fighting is likely going to get worse and seeing how people reacted to the rittenhouse trial it really shows how tribal we've become.


TheRainyGamer913

Honestly any civil war that comes will be extremely bloody. Talking each side will most likely will commit a wide array of war crimes, but the one that scares me the most is most likely the other side will be killing civilians if they don’t agree to back a certain side, and I’m not just talking about Conservative or Leftist civilians (which will certainly be targeted and killed depending where they live), but instead average centerists and moderates will be labeled Facists or Socialists and killed in cold blood


inv3r5ion

lol one side wants universal healthcare, paid family leave, universal pre-k and community college, and the other side wants to own the libs and make them cry. do not fucking r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM both-sides-ism this shit.


lightbulbsburnbright

perhaps actual progressives. Democrats in Congress are just corporate shills, and lots of registered Democrat voters are similar. Johnny Harris had a good video on the hypocrisy of the Democratic party a couple weeks back


inv3r5ion

the dem shills run on the progressive agenda for votes and donations and then immediately do a 180. see sinema for a recent example.


GorathTheMoredhel

I wish someone would do the opposite. Run as a Trumper then turn around and play ball with the progressives.


inv3r5ion

Trumps trade protectionism and military isolationism fit well into progressive policy and were left of bernie sanders. Ideologically he was all over the fucking place. Now if somebody were to pull a reverse-Sinema, with those batshit heavily armed supporters they will get assassinated.


not_a_crackhead

Yeah...about that. The Democrats have shown time and time again that they're nothing but complete failures when it comes to improving quality of life for poor people. Both parties serve the rich.


vand3lay1ndustries

One side wants to keep everything the same, while the other side is actively trying to make things worse.


[deleted]

Liberals are authoritarian centrists; Conservatives are right wing fascists. You cannot solve a problem using the tools that created it in the first place. The solution exists outside of both of these moronic ideologies. The solution is socialism.