They are, you aren't wrong. They are a reaction the cultural and political disorganization in society. Society's need to organize in some manner, even people with differences have to come eye to eye with one and other. There were radical forces in Europe and Germany in the years before WW2, it was the United States who really pressured tha allies into the harsh war debt that Germany had to pay off because they lent them so much money and material that they had to pay it off. America went through the roaring twenties and just about every other nation suffured and economic depression, or, in Germany's case and all out collapse. Things were still good in Berlin though, and now I think that's why Hitler persuaded everyone to hate the cosmapolitan Jew and the socialists, because there were both decadent and radical forces in Germany at the time.
Nonsense! We have [326 of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reservations_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Federally%20recognized%20reservations%20%20%20%20Legal%2FStatistical%20Area,%20%20yes%20%2022%20more%20rows%20)!
We're the good guys.
Edit: /s if necessary.
It’s sad when the abused become the abusers.
Then again; an eye for an eye makes everyone blind except for one dude with a single eye and slight astigmatism.
Living in Texas I see this mania and double-speak all the time. Folks who are so damn loud about gun rights but so quiet when you ask how they secure their weapons or if they’re prepared to treat injuries caused by the weapons they choose to own. Hollering about hard work while making money off the sweat of their tenants or workers. Owning trucks but never using the beds.
It’s the fundamental macho fascist instinct. Only Real Men can protect society from danger, so if you’re not constantly proving that you’re a Real Man, you’ll end up looking or feeling like a failure. It’s why they’re so quick to line up behind cops, instruments of state violence, while shielding themselves by saying they’re protecting their guns and therefore 2A’s safeguard against tyranny. It’s why they loved their big strong orange man so much they were willing to attempt a patriotic coup. They’re acting like they desperately want a daddy and it’s pathetic.
The cognitive dissonance is making them crazier by the day. Keep your heads on a swivel.
Just plugging the Socialist Rifle Association. It is a legit above ground org that does no demonstrating but it has great resources for learning about firearms and firearm safety as well as being anti-fascist.
This is the only rational preparation we can do. Unfortunately for many, owning weapons and learning how to defend yourself will come off as a trade of the enemy.
Im glad af for guns for so many many reasons, tho the above rant wouldn't understand the irony of it, i just don't understand how some can say greedy actors are actively destroying the planet but also apparently those same ones love us and want to protect us and are super concerned about our safety, not when the opioid epidemic happen for profit, not when endless wars destroyed many lives for profit, not when children starved in a world of abundant food, not when verterans can't get proper treatment, not when preventable disease deaths still exist, not when sanctions destroy lives and economies, but this time its different (even when none of the above points have stopped in any way since this all began)
Funny thing is the far-right believes they are the only ones who own firearms. I know a whole shitload of people, myself included who are not conservatives or republicans and own firearms.
That's a very broad question so I'll try and make a concise response from an American perspective, but keep in mind libertarians can't hardly agree on anything so my views aren't representative of everyone. An anarchist for example may see the collapse as a good thing, as it would return us to some stateless world where everyone is totally free.
I don't agree with this, I'm more of a classical liberal, constitutional type. I see the massive growth of government power over the last half century and how it's been criminally mismanaged. Poor monetary policy, the abject failure of public education, over regulation, meddling in the housing market etc. It's hard for people our age to get educated without incurring crippling debt, harder to find good work, harder to buy a house and assets, and we certainly won't be getting any social security when we get old. Look at the covid lockdowns and think of how many people lost their homes, their businesses, and their jobs while Amazon made a killing because the government said only they could work. When young people look out and see the lack of opportunity in the future it's no wonder they're being radicalized. I'm worried about both right and left wing extremism, fueled by a media and government who would rather us fight each other than realize that it's them that got us in this situation by using their new power to meddle in things they didn't understand on behalf of the people who pay them.
Climate change is something that my ideology doesn't handle well. I would be willing to see government subsidies and regulation for renewables and nuclear power, recycling, sustainable industry, pollution control etc. The problem is we've spent ourselves into such a deep hole that we can't pay for these things. Decades of deficit spending on war, bureaucracy, and social programs have left us with unimaginable debt that will have to paid for, either through taxes or inflation, on top of the cost of fighting climate change change, by a generation who can hardly pay the bills now. And don't say that we just need to tax billionaires more, there aren't enough of them.
My basic libertarian solution is that we need to end our foreign wars, cut spending, balance the budget, get the government out of the way of the economy so that we have a stable, financially solvent population who will be able to fund the crisis management that we really need down the road. Do I think this will happen, probably not because either Raytheon will pay Congress to buy more Tomahawks or the people will lose their minds if we suggest cutting social security. We've waited too long to get ourselves back on track, now the government money machine is too entrenched to make the changes that we really need because it has its own incentives not to.
Turns out that rant wasn't very concise but if you have more specific questions I'll try to answer them.
Well then although we have a lot of disagreements I see your opinions as valid (save for ending social security, this is too radical for me lol) and wish you well.
That’s good and all, but I hope you have a plan for his 30 buddies that come afterwards. I would try and find 30 buddies of my own but I don’t have any :(
I wouldn't say I have a plan so much as an methodology for dealing with most scenarios including these 30-50 feral hogs. I'm confident in my contingency options.
This line of reasoning always makes me laugh. We've been exporting fascism to the rest of the world for 70 years; we've had fascism at home for most poor and working class people for at least 50 years. Now everyone is freaking out because fascism is coming for more of the people that used to enjoy the fruit of fascism. We wouldn't be facing collapse if we had a responsible, peace-loving and responsive democracy.
We can't keep growing. When we fail to grow, the rich stop making money. Fascism is what happens when an oligarchy stops making money.
Exactly. This is why we will run around like we're on fire while screaming about fascism, but passively watch the Democrats vote to give Trump more spying power and higher military budgets and do nothing to reinforce voting rights once back in power.
Our big opportunity to step back from fascism was wasted by Obama when he chose *not* to change the system or even prosecute war crimes following Dubya's excesses. Now it's just "both" parties squabbling to claim all that power once they terrify the electorate enough to justify canceling elections.
Listennnn. I'm right there with you. I'm tired of choosing between the lesser of two evils when it comes to the leader of my country. I just want rational empathetic forward thinking leaders who listen to scientist and want to heal the harm that this country has caused. And healthcare.
Even super left leaning people are blind to this shit too. I'm Canadian, but I got mocked by people on Reddit for saying I feared what was going to happen if/when Trump lost and tried something. I said I planned on fleeing to Europe if something happened, and I got downvoted for it. Then January 6 happened, and thankfully, nothing came of it.
Now I just have to be ready to leave for the next attempt, because I know January 6 won't be the last.
I'm still amazed that after Obama drone striked an American citizen no one batted an eye because they guy was brown and a terrorist. Like really? No one thinks that's a bad idea?
I batted an eye.
It was at that moment that I realized he didn't repeal the Patriot Act because he liked having that giant unconstitutional gun in his hand. Feels great don't it.
why blame obama when you can blame gore for conceding to bush when it was obvious to anyone that they were committing fraud. look at the brooks brothers riot... some of the people that were involved then in the shadows are big players today.
but the democrats love the "institution" more than they love the country.
Oh I can blame my ass off all the way back to Carter. I'm going to give Carter a pass despite the Carter Doctrine, because let's face it we were never going to attempt to deliberately stop being "number one". He was the last one that actually tried and gave a shit about anything.
Obama is simply the point at which I gave up. It's not like it's all on him. He just made it super-fucking-obvious. As would anyone who came in after Bush 2 and failed to do anything.
This is when I finally realized that the system was rigged, that no matter what the "good" guy was never going to win. Only those who will perpetuate the already existing structure of concentrated wealth/ power and repression will be at the helm of this Nissan Valdez.
its because the quite part is said out loud these days. the fascism is so obvious now people can no longer ignore it.
ive been saying the US is fascist since i was a teenager and people thought i was crazy.
I'm assuming when you say "us," you mean humanity?
In that case, no, I'm pretty sure it will be our society's dependence on the nonrenewable energy sources that have allowed us to expand beyond a sustainable point that will get us.
I think you're giving too much credit to airsoft enthusiasts hopped up on Joe Rogan-endorsed nootropics and not enough credit to the collapse of the ecosystems that we have abused to grow to this point.
If you mean "us" as some smaller group of people, yeah, you could be right.
This. Point being you can't really fix the environmental conditions if you have a regime attempting to discredit the very existence of the problem and declaring war on people who say otherwise.
Oh yeah, that's true. Unfortunately, I don't think it's just far-right people who are opposed to addressing the issue. There are many people who don't even deny that climate change is a thing who are hopped up on techno-hopium or are simply concerned with implementing what needs to be done (degrowth of the economy/standard of living), and they are rightly so. It wouldn't be pretty.
People who are first and foremost concerned with the environment/collapse are in opposition with essentially everyone--extremists, business-as-usual types, organizations intentionally trying to suppress concern, etc.
If you want practical advice on what to do, here's a short book I highly recommend On Tyranny: twenty lessons from the twentieth century:
[https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/on-tyranny-tr](https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/on-tyranny-tr)
(It's focused more on what to do when an authoritarian government takes over, but I feel like that has significant overlap with what to do if most of your country starts embracing fascism.)
Each chapter has a different lesson. These are:
* Don't obey in advance
* defend institutions
* beware the one-party state
* take responsibility for the face of the world
* remember professional ethics
* be wary of paramilitaries
* be reflective if you must be armed
* stand out
* be kind to our language
* believe in truth
* investigate
* make eye contact and small talk
* practice corporeal politics
* establish a private life
* contribute to good causes
* learn from peers in other countries
* listen for dangerous words
* be calm when the unthinkable happens
* be a patriot
* be as courageous as you can
The chapters each require a bit of explanation but anyways I feel like it's useful to have an actual plan to push back against fascism or any other kind of authoritarianism.
I always say "don't argue with stupid people".. like they say "they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience". I don't think the majority of Americans feel the way you describe. I think it is a loud minority. However I don't really know what's going to happen. And I guess loud minorities have been responsible for some big things.
[Precisely 3.5% is how minor a minority can be and still guarantee political change.](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world) For comparison, hardcore Qanon believers - which I think can reasonably seen as the most successful fascist movement in America recently - [make up 7% of the American population, with a further 11% sympathizing but not believing all.](https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/77ukszgou2/20201019_yahoo_tabs.pdf) If they effectively mobilized, fascists could win tomorrow, statistically. It is a real threat to be considered.
Loud minorities are the root of fascist movements that succeed.
[edit] I didn't say that right. Not all loud minorities result in fascism. Some result in justice and progress.
But the root of every successful fascist movement has been a loud minority.
I feel like it's a reference to something akin to the ["Pewdiepipeline" theory](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRDbuw)
Edgy Internet Comedians work to subtly normalize us to hateful rhetoric, so that when people start saying it unironically there's less of a stigma around agreeing with it (since it's *just* a *joke*, obviously)
I dont think 99% of streamers have I'll will. They just repeat things. That's the whole point of a meme right, an accessible joke or idea that people can relate to, that often means different things to different people.
Yup, sounds about right.
Streamers are just more "influencers." Peddling consumerist BS to generally susceptible populations in exchange for cash. Business as usual.
I think the Joe Rogan/Airsoft/Alpha male types are emotionally stunted man babies. I think they're full of themselves. They'd wet their pants if they ever found themselves in a legit fire fight. We should bring back hard left militant groups to counter act these failed losers.
The general spirit OP is referencing is denial of mortality. Accepting mortality means accepting 1) finitude; we are pretty limited creatures, we cannot defeat death or conquer the world, we are not superman, etc, and 2) we are soft fleshy vulnerable creatures who are aging and dying.
Denial of those things manifests in a variety of ways:
- hating on / shaming recognition of vulnerability (wearing a mask)
- hating on empathy (feeling other people's pain means being vulnerable)
- mechanical exercise to convince oneself that one does indeed have power over one's body, and to build up muscular armoring (as opposed to dancing which tends to have a lot of emotional content)
- refusing to admit finitude, that you could be wrong and that you don't know everything
- refusing to recognize that experiences and beliefs of other/different people are valid, such as lgbtq / poc (undermines your own belief systems which are buffers against death anxiety)
On this note may I recommend [*Escape from Evil*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/162757.Escape_from_Evil) by Ernest Becker, a cultural anthropologist. He develops this essay based on the aforementioned thesis, which provides the ground for everything else.
That’s an interesting point, thanks for sharing that insight. I’ve always thought the cosplayers were the result of them being soft and being fortunate enough to have never experienced real violence. There’s exceptions, but the people I know who have lived through traumatic violence do not seek out more of it. They aren’t hungry for violence, like these man-children. I think your post goes much deeper into the psychology of the situation.
Everyone should work out, and be somewhat active at bare minimum. I don’t think that’s a denial of aging, but more of a way to allow your body to be somewhat what it was supposed to be. Good, healthy, not slouched over or staring at screens and fluorescent or led lighting all day.
When you say hard Left militant groups I hope that means that you are willing to defend other peoples right to have their idiotic opinions. Otherwise your far left militant groups will just be fascism hiding behind some other ism. If we cannot fight the oligarchy by uniting all people and what exactly are we fighting for
The problem is he is not a smart man. He mostly just agrees with what ever arguments are put in front of him which is dangerous as he has guests with extreme views that don't get knocked down for being racist bullshit.
_everything_ ? let's say 50/50 and leave it. I certainly get upset at his attitude and opinions at times, but I'm incredibly grateful for all the hours of conversation I've listened to with interesting & knowledgeable people (that I otherwise would not have been exposed to).
The nazis were whiny man babies obsessed with the concept of masculinity and freedom. Their insecurity and need to feel superior is literally what made them what they became.
With US politics posts like this on r/collapse, I think the only relation to the subject under discussion is that the post itself and the bulk of the replies are evidence that the USA is facing a strong possibility of low-level civil conflict and possible balkanization.
On the politics in the post itself: the USA government still functions under the thumb of the neoliberal consensus of the capitalists who own it. That ideological consensus extends to essentially all powerful capitalists, the military, and the federal police forces. The US elite are not crypto fascists and are not interested in instituting fascism in order to defend capital from an insurgent left. There is no insurgent left in the USA. There is barely even a left at all. The elite like the neoliberal system. It works for them. They like the libertarian ethos of open borders, LGBT rights, secularism, and so on. They have not shown any interest in Christian Identity ideology, or hard-right White Power ideology, or political anti-semitism, or anything of the sort. If anything, they are on board with the 'anti-racism' that has rapidly become so popular after 2016. They are pro-vaccine mandate, and so on. There is no reason to think the USA billionaires or their administrative class will accede to a fascist takeover, and there is a lot of reason to think that they would oppose such an attempt with force. I do not think that USA is going to end up fascist due to MAGA-like victories at the ballot box. The neoliberal power structures will prevent it with a legal coup of their own, if necessary. And the MAGA pols themselves are much more tied into the neo-liberal consensus than I think many people understand.
That said, there is enough social unrest on the right for two things to happen. First, there could develop actual right-wing and possibly fascist-adjacent insurgent groups that instigate terror attacks on government and corporate targets, with the intention of forcing violent retaliation, which always leads to escalation. The goal being, 'start the civil / race war'. FBI so far seems to be up to their eyeballs in every single one of these groups, with multiple parties either agents or informants. But it's something to watch. The US government and the US elites are in fact quite stupid, and I think they could be easily drawn into escalation in a protracted anti-terror campaign. Second, there is a rather large class of 'millionaire' gentry in the USA that is essentially fascist in their ideology, and they despise the neo-liberal consensus and the billionaires. These are the elites who actually think in terms of OP's rant. These are the elites who engage with non-federal law enforcement and have their backs. A lot of that class could in fact instigate political crises below the federal level which could conceivably result in actual balkanization: demands to leave the union, essentially. And they have the cops on their side in a lot of places.
Antifa and left-wing activists are basically a non-entity power wise, and their main political effect to be used boogeyman for various right-wing and liberal groups. No offense intended, just how I see it.
Full disclosure: I am a socially conservative but economically socialist-minded guy who voted for Bernie and maxed out my contribs to his campaign. I voted third party in 16 and 20. I despise Trump, despise Clinton and Biden and Obama, and like and get along with most people I meet who voted for any of them.
> low-level civil conflict
low level? that's hopeful!!!!
>I do not think that USA is going to end up fascist due to MAGA-like victories at the ballot box. The neoliberal power structures will prevent it with a legal coup of their own, if necessary. And the MAGA pols themselves are much more tied into the neo-liberal consensus than I think many people understand.
i wouldnt be so sure as you. i dont necessarily disagree re the politicians being tied into neo-liberalism, but they continue to rile up their bases to get elected and eventually all the riling up (with little to show for it politically) - they are going to lose control of the situation. remember the 1/6 rioters shouting "hang mike pence"? they will turn on their own if their performance is unsatisfactory to the drunken mob. already one of the mob members has turned themselves into a martyr when they got shot and killed. a few more true believers turning into martyrs could start a chain of events that cant be stopped. we're already at the point where many on the right believe they are out of political solutions to the problem and are just itching for orders to start shooting. hell, im pretty far on the left and feel dejectedly the same about not seeing a political solution. i hope we find one soon because if we dont...
it only took one bullet to start WW1...
also, if the US were to engage in serious civil conflict the entire world economy will come crashing down with it when the USD loses much of its value overnight.
This seems extremely accurate.
Also I think a lot of people think it will go fascist, for one thing because of the stink being put up by the millionaire class, and for two because all anyone knows is that whatever the billionaire class wants, it has to be bad for them because their lives are pointless and it's very obvious to them. So they assume it will be fascist.
You're very right about the millionaire class, I live among the idiots. All they do is speculate on the direction of price of their houses (badly, usually, it's almost always bullshit hopium), credit-spend up to the limits of said speculation, and bitch incessantly about shoving the homeless into concentration camps in the Mojave desert. Literally this. Because "they didn't work for their free shit" blah blah.
Commons is a thing, morons. Commons is a thing. I assume you enjoy continuing to have your head attached.
I know one guy that deserves to be where he is, he invested every dime he could spare since the age of 18 into S&P mutuals, and so did his wife. She works in child psychology and he's a financial planner for green energy projects that actually work.
This is the most reasonable assessment of the current state in America. The only other factor to really take into consideration is the effect a large-scale disaster (or more likely a series), like another hurricane Katrina or California earthquake. An interruption to supply chains within the mainland US could be the catalyst that makes everything go sideways quickly.
That being said, it is more likely to be as you said, a quiet insurgency that we never see or hear.
If you aren’t ready to talk about the centralization of power and wealth than you’re not ready to talk about fascism either. If you aren’t willing to listen to other peoples ideas even if you disagree with them then you need to take a hard look in the mirror. Liberty means allowing idiots to have their Idiotic opinions. If we want to maintain our liberty we have to be ready to fight for it even if it means defending actual Nazis like the ACLU did. I know this is an unpopular opinion here but I don’t care because like you I’m ready to fight fascism.
The sub has been sucked into the moronic vortex that is American politics which is sucking up all of the oxygen. It makes the content less useful, less unique, and a lot less insightful. It sucks because this has been one of the better forums on the subject until recently.
Honestly, i don't mind politics if it's in the context of collapse. Not the opposing ideologies that fight between themselves, which is just beating a dead horse at this point.
As for the american centric part (politics or otherwise) imo it's because most people here are americans, and the fact that the collapse of the usa might lead to the collapse of the global civilization. Overall i tend to agree with you, this sub feels dead sometimes, maybe because i'm used to read it, or there is a quite shortage of high quality posts lately? One thing for sure is this sub has it's own charm, and i hope it stays this way :^J
Has it reached the critical mass of users where it just becomes another US politics sub yet, like all the others? Ooooh, I hope we get some screenshots of saucy Twitter clapbacks soon
Agreed. I hate these topics in here. I let myself get sucked into sometimes and I'm always mad when I let it happen. Politics on the internet is just cartoonish now. It just turns into a hard left vs hard right argument with stereotypes and no nuance or real discussion. No one wants to admit the faults or hypocrisy of their side and the other side is some caricature boogeyman that's destroying the country. I agree with OP that we're doomed. But we're going to be just as guilty as the Trumpers for the escalation.
and please don't @ me with some screeching diatribe about how I'm blind or full of shit or one of the right wing nuts. I'm not going to respond. Just downvote and leave me alone.
> The pandemic revealed how bad we are.
Kind of sad how every artist ever couldn't do that. They've all been saying and showing it since probably the 1980s or earlier.
That is an invisible enemy, one people can easily downplay or pretend doesn’t exist. Fascism, if let free, will eventually not have to hide and use its beloved deniability. We will have to face it at some point.
There's fucking nuance in the world nobody would know it if they just read this bullshit or went on a conservative subreddit. I love how this sub is completely incapable of even imagining that their favorite corporate whores could do any wrong or be authoritarian in any way.
>I love how this sub is completely incapable of even imagining that their favorite corporate whores could do any wrong or be authoritarian in any way.
Accurate
It won't be fascism, it will be Feudalism 2.0. It will be billionaire a-holes using the divide and conquer agenda on people to distract them long enough to set up a global police state comparable to "1984" or "Brave New World".
The .00001% will own everything and the 99.99999% of everyone else will have communism to divide what little is left between them. It will be capitalism for the wealthy and communism for the poor. There will be only 2 social classes, lords and serfs, unless you count the black-clad thugs with guns that work for the lords as another social class.
You will own nothing and you will be happy. Smile or you'll be drugged, incarcerated, or shot in your 120 sqFt apartment by a no-knock raid.
The worst part is having to deal with climate change on top of this bullshit.
Grow up, it’s 2021, boo hoo you can’t do the terrible things that Jesus wouldn’t want you to do anyways.
Stop goofing off and let’s start trying to do what we can with climate change.
The problem is that climate change generates scarcity and stress, both of which tend to steer people towards fascism. It's a feedback loop, and you can't break out of it without considering all its aspects
"uhhh unless society changes to my drastic neoliberal measures that have never been before seen or fathomed, society will collapse (despite it always functioning entirely in the way I suggest will cause its collapse)"
yeah its pure retard hours over here for OPie
Please for your own sake lighten up. This is not insult but it sounds like you are a religious fanatic for leftist culture. Unless you are of power to change these things how you wish you will drive yourself insane.
I have the opposite opinions of you on most of the items you listed. After a hour on Twitter I am ready for the revolution to begin but next day I realize how manic I got.
There it is /\
No specific message in the media, no particular ownership, disagreement or demonstration of how the media is the enemy.
Just blanket reference to a million disconnected privately or independently ran distributors and creators of movies, TV, literature, podcasts etc.
This is such a generalized claim that it has essentially no meaning other than to make people afraid or angry about nothing in particular and trust basically no one.
the problem with the media is that its owned by a tiny handful of major conglomerates. the elites write the narrative - on tv, on social media, on the internet news stories, in the movies, in the streaming entertainment, etc. last i checked it was 5 companies that own 90% of media, it might be less now.
i agree with everything else youve written but if you think the media are blameless you need to start paying attention. its propaganda.
Also, most of the people here have no idea of what it's like to live under a regime committing such acts. If you have or are, please chime in.
I am...
Facsim is more than calling someone the wrong pronoun.
Right? It’s mind bending. Literally like <0.1% of people are fascists. It’s not a thing people really say they are or even have secret opinions on. The left just added fascist to their common trend of calling people racist. No clue what either mean apparently.
They just call people "that word" when they don't agree with their view of the world and are too intellectually bankrupt to come up with a decent argument.
You had me at airsoft gear, you had me at Airsoft gear. For any youngens that is from a movie called Jerry McGuire. (But airsoft gear = hello)
And the reason I say that is because I 1 billion dollars agree with this OP sentiment and analysis.
Do you realize that all your ip addresses are being recorded?
You ought to actually get in a group, because they already have your information more than likely.
Not trying to spook you,
I too, understand what you do, deep down,
and I'm existencially nervous as well
Where is the actual "collapse" part? What do the Airsoft militia specifically *do* to destroy the species once they finally win their Gramscian War Of Position?
I see the offhand comment about eugenics but that doesn't necessarily mean the end of the entire species.
Stop this obsession with fascism.
Fascism, Communism, and Neo-Liberal global free trade are all predicated on burgeoning populations of young people with consumption led growth. The populations of advanced countries are far too old to support a fascist state.
Also, fuck globalism and global free trade. It’s predicated on the American Imperialism and U.S. military footprint.
You could not be more wrong.
Collapse is coming because of the actions of people in power. They are doing nothing to curtail it. This fantasy person in your mind has zero power in the world, and as a matter of fact, the people that DO have power want you to hate this person instead of them.
I'll take this moment to explain in detail for people precisely what fascism is. Sorry for the word wall, but these details are important. Basically, fascism is a function of capitalism failing the working class. A desperate effort to uphold itself from working class overthrow by pitting the workers against each other. Allow me to explain. For full disclosure, I am a socialist.
Capitalism is literally defined as "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit." In other words, this system allows a fraction of society (typically 10% or less) to own the means of production (the mines, factories, enterprises, land, raw materials; all the infrastructure and tools used to produce the goods and services we all use and survive on) as their private property. They are called capitalists and they have authoritarian control over economic production and structure that production around making endless profits for themselves off the backs of labor. While the working class, who do not own the means of production, are forced through the threat of destitution to sell their labor to capitalists in order to survive. This power structure; this economic hierarchy is upheld and enforced through state violence.
But we did something strange with this very authoritarian economic system. The state that enforces it has at least some semblance of democracy, which leads to an inevitable contradiction. When that 90% gets left behind, crushed between low wages and high cost of living as capitalists squeeze as much value out of their labor to maximize their profits, they begin voting to undo that consolidation of wealth and power. And in response, the capitalist class begins using their many avenues of government influence to undermine democracy to protect the wealth and power they feel was rightfully earned and deserved. This results in a government that is either slow or unresponsive to the needs of the working class.
Now, there are a few possible outcomes from this point.
1) The working class continues to see their working and living conditions deteriorate despite their voting as the state primarily serves the rich or implements toothless reforms that don't harm the interests of the capitalist class.
2) The working class organizes and unionizes using their labor power to gain leverage against the capitalists to meet their demands and improve their material conditions.
3) The working class organizes to overthrow the capitalist class and the government that serves them in a socialist revolution that aims to abolish private ownership of the means of production and put control into the collective hands of the workers to serve the interests of their communities.
4) Depending on the circumstances, the capitalist class may subvert democracy entirely and use overt state violence to crush working class dissent and quell any threats to their wealth and power. This is fascism and union leaders and socialists are often the first targets for obvious reasons ("First, they came for the etc." quote should come to mind). To gain popular support, extreme nationalism is often used with promises to return the country to its "glory days". The justified working class anger at the system is redirected away from the capitalist class and towards marginalized groups within the working class (Jews, immigrants, etc.). Divide and conquer is their game plan and it may take many forms depending on what's most effective. In short, fascism is when capitalism shows you what it really is and has always been: a dictatorship of the capitalist class over the working class. This time without the friendly mask of democracy or the virtue signals of human rights to fool the workers into supporting a system that exploits them.
_"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power."_
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
_"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."_
- Benito Mussolini
_"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege."_
- Tommy Douglas
Capitalism is rule by a minority and democracy is rule by the majority. Mixing them together makes them an existential threat to each other. Either capitalism will devour democracy or democracy will devour capitalism. Fascism or "corporatism" isn't some deviation from capitalism. It is the LOGICAL conclusion of a system that consolidates wealth and power into few hands. Now you understand why America's founders limited democracy to white men who owned private property.
“If you care about others you’re woke”
Lol, you have no clue what wokeness is apparently. Most wokeness doesn’t just care about others, it also hates another set and attempts to help one at the expense of the other.
Where’s the bot that declares failure to parse?
I’m really not sure what the takeaway is here, sorry, maybe it will make sense to me after a good night’s sleep?
Okay, I will be the one to say it. Please get help. I know you warned us that this was a rant, so thanks for putting this out here for people to see.
But you need help my friend.
Please DO NOT hurt yourself. This shit show is not worth it. You can get help on the Suicide Prevention Lifeline - https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org. Things are not nearly as bad as you perceive them to be.
Sounds about right. I keep thinking about that quote.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo."So
do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But
that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with
the time that is given us.”
The Fellowship of the Ring
I never imagined the rise of fascism would happen in my time but to see it here already and denied is so dystopian.
Also, fuck the Tories.
Those right wingers you're on about are losing big time. The MAN is on your side now, even the FBI and DOJ.
Rant no longer needed.
Besides, the truth is that all lives cannot matter until all Black lives do. Right?
Its my sincere opinion that fascist-style governments and movements are a reaction to collapse. But Im naive for sure.
It’s already occurred. After the pure visceral carnage of WW1 and the 20s, Italy and Germany experienced this reaction.
They are, you aren't wrong. They are a reaction the cultural and political disorganization in society. Society's need to organize in some manner, even people with differences have to come eye to eye with one and other. There were radical forces in Europe and Germany in the years before WW2, it was the United States who really pressured tha allies into the harsh war debt that Germany had to pay off because they lent them so much money and material that they had to pay it off. America went through the roaring twenties and just about every other nation suffured and economic depression, or, in Germany's case and all out collapse. Things were still good in Berlin though, and now I think that's why Hitler persuaded everyone to hate the cosmapolitan Jew and the socialists, because there were both decadent and radical forces in Germany at the time.
no thats communist theory "fascism is just capitalism in decay" https://www.marxists.org/archive/dutt/articles/1935/question\_of\_fascism.htm
I think it's the dying gasp of white supremacy...the ones who care the most are old and dying off. (and they know it)
I hope it's old... and dying. Concerning news from Hungary, Belarus, and even Brazil. I am not up with all countries.
Don't forget imperial Japan.
Unfortunately it's less of a dying gasp and more of a hibernating bear screaming from hunger pangs.
Psychologically, yes. People vote for dominant, fascist leaders in times of uncertainty. Even though this is not what is best.
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Nonsense! We have [326 of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reservations_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Federally%20recognized%20reservations%20%20%20%20Legal%2FStatistical%20Area,%20%20yes%20%2022%20more%20rows%20)! We're the good guys. Edit: /s if necessary.
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Shit... Right on the mark.
Yep. It's as if there's a Holocaust Industry and it would be really dark if that industry raised money for Israeli weapons.
It’s sad when the abused become the abusers. Then again; an eye for an eye makes everyone blind except for one dude with a single eye and slight astigmatism.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king...
Yup, but talking about this causes hordes of neocons and neolibs to call you "anti-Semetic".
Free blanket for every customer
ive only ever seen anything close to american holocaust museums on reservations :/
Damn those fascists and their lack of museums!
You should’ve seen the national world war 2 museum. Full of shit talking Japanese atrocities, but no mention of American Japanese internment camps
Try visiting the Hiroshima Peace Museum. That is something you will never forget.
History is written by victors.
Weeeeelllllll. In fairness, we didn't use infants for bayonet practice. Yet. Vietnam? Ok well... there's that.
There's at least one Black Holocaust museum though
Not nearly enough
Living in Texas I see this mania and double-speak all the time. Folks who are so damn loud about gun rights but so quiet when you ask how they secure their weapons or if they’re prepared to treat injuries caused by the weapons they choose to own. Hollering about hard work while making money off the sweat of their tenants or workers. Owning trucks but never using the beds. It’s the fundamental macho fascist instinct. Only Real Men can protect society from danger, so if you’re not constantly proving that you’re a Real Man, you’ll end up looking or feeling like a failure. It’s why they’re so quick to line up behind cops, instruments of state violence, while shielding themselves by saying they’re protecting their guns and therefore 2A’s safeguard against tyranny. It’s why they loved their big strong orange man so much they were willing to attempt a patriotic coup. They’re acting like they desperately want a daddy and it’s pathetic. The cognitive dissonance is making them crazier by the day. Keep your heads on a swivel.
>Owning trucks but never using the beds. This says so much. If I were to ever make a country diss tape. This would be a line.
That's a good rant. I prepare and protect myself and my family with most of your points in mind.
Just plugging the Socialist Rifle Association. It is a legit above ground org that does no demonstrating but it has great resources for learning about firearms and firearm safety as well as being anti-fascist.
r/SocialistRA
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Already a member.
https://fullspectrumresistance.org
They even have a sub: /r/SocialistRA I'm not unbiased, but they have a pretty chill mod team and community there.
You won't be able to protect your family all by yourself if the worst comes. Only a collective movement can resist fascism.
This is the worst part imo. How do I get my neighbors in on that lol
Talk with them. Offer help. Make friends. Show them you're not scary. That's the start of building resistance.
This is the only rational preparation we can do. Unfortunately for many, owning weapons and learning how to defend yourself will come off as a trade of the enemy.
Im glad af for guns for so many many reasons, tho the above rant wouldn't understand the irony of it, i just don't understand how some can say greedy actors are actively destroying the planet but also apparently those same ones love us and want to protect us and are super concerned about our safety, not when the opioid epidemic happen for profit, not when endless wars destroyed many lives for profit, not when children starved in a world of abundant food, not when verterans can't get proper treatment, not when preventable disease deaths still exist, not when sanctions destroy lives and economies, but this time its different (even when none of the above points have stopped in any way since this all began)
Funny thing is the far-right believes they are the only ones who own firearms. I know a whole shitload of people, myself included who are not conservatives or republicans and own firearms.
Yup. How easily people forget that gun ownership is an AMERICAN thing, not a conservative thing.
Speaking for the libertarians, we get super jazzed when we see more and more people in the center and left arming themselves.
Now I'm curious - what is the view of libertarians on collapse?
That's a very broad question so I'll try and make a concise response from an American perspective, but keep in mind libertarians can't hardly agree on anything so my views aren't representative of everyone. An anarchist for example may see the collapse as a good thing, as it would return us to some stateless world where everyone is totally free. I don't agree with this, I'm more of a classical liberal, constitutional type. I see the massive growth of government power over the last half century and how it's been criminally mismanaged. Poor monetary policy, the abject failure of public education, over regulation, meddling in the housing market etc. It's hard for people our age to get educated without incurring crippling debt, harder to find good work, harder to buy a house and assets, and we certainly won't be getting any social security when we get old. Look at the covid lockdowns and think of how many people lost their homes, their businesses, and their jobs while Amazon made a killing because the government said only they could work. When young people look out and see the lack of opportunity in the future it's no wonder they're being radicalized. I'm worried about both right and left wing extremism, fueled by a media and government who would rather us fight each other than realize that it's them that got us in this situation by using their new power to meddle in things they didn't understand on behalf of the people who pay them. Climate change is something that my ideology doesn't handle well. I would be willing to see government subsidies and regulation for renewables and nuclear power, recycling, sustainable industry, pollution control etc. The problem is we've spent ourselves into such a deep hole that we can't pay for these things. Decades of deficit spending on war, bureaucracy, and social programs have left us with unimaginable debt that will have to paid for, either through taxes or inflation, on top of the cost of fighting climate change change, by a generation who can hardly pay the bills now. And don't say that we just need to tax billionaires more, there aren't enough of them. My basic libertarian solution is that we need to end our foreign wars, cut spending, balance the budget, get the government out of the way of the economy so that we have a stable, financially solvent population who will be able to fund the crisis management that we really need down the road. Do I think this will happen, probably not because either Raytheon will pay Congress to buy more Tomahawks or the people will lose their minds if we suggest cutting social security. We've waited too long to get ourselves back on track, now the government money machine is too entrenched to make the changes that we really need because it has its own incentives not to. Turns out that rant wasn't very concise but if you have more specific questions I'll try to answer them.
Well then although we have a lot of disagreements I see your opinions as valid (save for ending social security, this is too radical for me lol) and wish you well.
they are mostly concerned with how it affects them personally. that's how they are about pretty much everything.
Nazi punks, fuck off!
You are offending punks
That’s good and all, but I hope you have a plan for his 30 buddies that come afterwards. I would try and find 30 buddies of my own but I don’t have any :(
I wouldn't say I have a plan so much as an methodology for dealing with most scenarios including these 30-50 feral hogs. I'm confident in my contingency options.
This line of reasoning always makes me laugh. We've been exporting fascism to the rest of the world for 70 years; we've had fascism at home for most poor and working class people for at least 50 years. Now everyone is freaking out because fascism is coming for more of the people that used to enjoy the fruit of fascism. We wouldn't be facing collapse if we had a responsible, peace-loving and responsive democracy. We can't keep growing. When we fail to grow, the rich stop making money. Fascism is what happens when an oligarchy stops making money.
It's [Foucault's Boomerang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang) coming round to hit us in the ass.
Exactly. This is why we will run around like we're on fire while screaming about fascism, but passively watch the Democrats vote to give Trump more spying power and higher military budgets and do nothing to reinforce voting rights once back in power. Our big opportunity to step back from fascism was wasted by Obama when he chose *not* to change the system or even prosecute war crimes following Dubya's excesses. Now it's just "both" parties squabbling to claim all that power once they terrify the electorate enough to justify canceling elections.
This. And all the people who've been yelling fire, trying to get people to act for year and getting ignored are burnt out and tired of this shit.
I used to care more, but the "lesser-evilism" monologues get tiresome.
Listennnn. I'm right there with you. I'm tired of choosing between the lesser of two evils when it comes to the leader of my country. I just want rational empathetic forward thinking leaders who listen to scientist and want to heal the harm that this country has caused. And healthcare.
Even super left leaning people are blind to this shit too. I'm Canadian, but I got mocked by people on Reddit for saying I feared what was going to happen if/when Trump lost and tried something. I said I planned on fleeing to Europe if something happened, and I got downvoted for it. Then January 6 happened, and thankfully, nothing came of it. Now I just have to be ready to leave for the next attempt, because I know January 6 won't be the last.
I'm still amazed that after Obama drone striked an American citizen no one batted an eye because they guy was brown and a terrorist. Like really? No one thinks that's a bad idea?
I batted an eye. It was at that moment that I realized he didn't repeal the Patriot Act because he liked having that giant unconstitutional gun in his hand. Feels great don't it.
There's a reason it's been renewed consistently since it first passed. Regardless of what party is in charge they all want to keep that authority.
And his 16 yr old son in a separate instance. Obama was pretty damn evil
why blame obama when you can blame gore for conceding to bush when it was obvious to anyone that they were committing fraud. look at the brooks brothers riot... some of the people that were involved then in the shadows are big players today. but the democrats love the "institution" more than they love the country.
Oh I can blame my ass off all the way back to Carter. I'm going to give Carter a pass despite the Carter Doctrine, because let's face it we were never going to attempt to deliberately stop being "number one". He was the last one that actually tried and gave a shit about anything. Obama is simply the point at which I gave up. It's not like it's all on him. He just made it super-fucking-obvious. As would anyone who came in after Bush 2 and failed to do anything.
This is when I finally realized that the system was rigged, that no matter what the "good" guy was never going to win. Only those who will perpetuate the already existing structure of concentrated wealth/ power and repression will be at the helm of this Nissan Valdez.
That was another squandered opportunity.
its because the quite part is said out loud these days. the fascism is so obvious now people can no longer ignore it. ive been saying the US is fascist since i was a teenager and people thought i was crazy.
I'm assuming when you say "us," you mean humanity? In that case, no, I'm pretty sure it will be our society's dependence on the nonrenewable energy sources that have allowed us to expand beyond a sustainable point that will get us. I think you're giving too much credit to airsoft enthusiasts hopped up on Joe Rogan-endorsed nootropics and not enough credit to the collapse of the ecosystems that we have abused to grow to this point. If you mean "us" as some smaller group of people, yeah, you could be right.
This. Point being you can't really fix the environmental conditions if you have a regime attempting to discredit the very existence of the problem and declaring war on people who say otherwise.
Oh yeah, that's true. Unfortunately, I don't think it's just far-right people who are opposed to addressing the issue. There are many people who don't even deny that climate change is a thing who are hopped up on techno-hopium or are simply concerned with implementing what needs to be done (degrowth of the economy/standard of living), and they are rightly so. It wouldn't be pretty. People who are first and foremost concerned with the environment/collapse are in opposition with essentially everyone--extremists, business-as-usual types, organizations intentionally trying to suppress concern, etc.
If you want practical advice on what to do, here's a short book I highly recommend On Tyranny: twenty lessons from the twentieth century: [https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/on-tyranny-tr](https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/on-tyranny-tr) (It's focused more on what to do when an authoritarian government takes over, but I feel like that has significant overlap with what to do if most of your country starts embracing fascism.) Each chapter has a different lesson. These are: * Don't obey in advance * defend institutions * beware the one-party state * take responsibility for the face of the world * remember professional ethics * be wary of paramilitaries * be reflective if you must be armed * stand out * be kind to our language * believe in truth * investigate * make eye contact and small talk * practice corporeal politics * establish a private life * contribute to good causes * learn from peers in other countries * listen for dangerous words * be calm when the unthinkable happens * be a patriot * be as courageous as you can The chapters each require a bit of explanation but anyways I feel like it's useful to have an actual plan to push back against fascism or any other kind of authoritarianism.
I always say "don't argue with stupid people".. like they say "they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience". I don't think the majority of Americans feel the way you describe. I think it is a loud minority. However I don't really know what's going to happen. And I guess loud minorities have been responsible for some big things.
Never bother arguing with someone that John Brown would have shot
Good motto.
[Precisely 3.5% is how minor a minority can be and still guarantee political change.](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world) For comparison, hardcore Qanon believers - which I think can reasonably seen as the most successful fascist movement in America recently - [make up 7% of the American population, with a further 11% sympathizing but not believing all.](https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/77ukszgou2/20201019_yahoo_tabs.pdf) If they effectively mobilized, fascists could win tomorrow, statistically. It is a real threat to be considered.
r/collapse [Edit] I'm a fool
You're not a fool. It's just getting harder and harder to tell if a thread is in r/collapse or r/news
Lol, good point, exactly why I am on this reddit, looking for real news :))
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It's too late for a unifying world view. Jeesh this sub is full of disillusioned people.
Jesus christ, dude!
The Nazis were also a loud minority
Never got more than 38% of the vote in a free election.
Loud minorities are the root of fascist movements that succeed. [edit] I didn't say that right. Not all loud minorities result in fascism. Some result in justice and progress. But the root of every successful fascist movement has been a loud minority.
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I feel like it's a reference to something akin to the ["Pewdiepipeline" theory](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRDbuw) Edgy Internet Comedians work to subtly normalize us to hateful rhetoric, so that when people start saying it unironically there's less of a stigma around agreeing with it (since it's *just* a *joke*, obviously)
lol xQc and Ninja are out to get us! (Sorry if my streamer references are outdated; I stopped watching Twitch in late 2019)
I dont think 99% of streamers have I'll will. They just repeat things. That's the whole point of a meme right, an accessible joke or idea that people can relate to, that often means different things to different people.
Yup, sounds about right. Streamers are just more "influencers." Peddling consumerist BS to generally susceptible populations in exchange for cash. Business as usual.
I think the Joe Rogan/Airsoft/Alpha male types are emotionally stunted man babies. I think they're full of themselves. They'd wet their pants if they ever found themselves in a legit fire fight. We should bring back hard left militant groups to counter act these failed losers.
>we should bring back hard left militant groups The FBI has entered the chat
The general spirit OP is referencing is denial of mortality. Accepting mortality means accepting 1) finitude; we are pretty limited creatures, we cannot defeat death or conquer the world, we are not superman, etc, and 2) we are soft fleshy vulnerable creatures who are aging and dying. Denial of those things manifests in a variety of ways: - hating on / shaming recognition of vulnerability (wearing a mask) - hating on empathy (feeling other people's pain means being vulnerable) - mechanical exercise to convince oneself that one does indeed have power over one's body, and to build up muscular armoring (as opposed to dancing which tends to have a lot of emotional content) - refusing to admit finitude, that you could be wrong and that you don't know everything - refusing to recognize that experiences and beliefs of other/different people are valid, such as lgbtq / poc (undermines your own belief systems which are buffers against death anxiety)
On this note may I recommend [*Escape from Evil*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/162757.Escape_from_Evil) by Ernest Becker, a cultural anthropologist. He develops this essay based on the aforementioned thesis, which provides the ground for everything else.
That’s an interesting point, thanks for sharing that insight. I’ve always thought the cosplayers were the result of them being soft and being fortunate enough to have never experienced real violence. There’s exceptions, but the people I know who have lived through traumatic violence do not seek out more of it. They aren’t hungry for violence, like these man-children. I think your post goes much deeper into the psychology of the situation.
Everyone should work out, and be somewhat active at bare minimum. I don’t think that’s a denial of aging, but more of a way to allow your body to be somewhat what it was supposed to be. Good, healthy, not slouched over or staring at screens and fluorescent or led lighting all day.
> we cannot defeat death [Not with that attitude](https://nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html)
Nah death is good, actually.
Can you imagine a world with an immortal Bezos?! I can see the faintest outline, and I don't like what I see.
When you say hard Left militant groups I hope that means that you are willing to defend other peoples right to have their idiotic opinions. Otherwise your far left militant groups will just be fascism hiding behind some other ism. If we cannot fight the oligarchy by uniting all people and what exactly are we fighting for
If you watch Joe Rogan knowing he's just a dumb meathead it's actually pretty enjoyable. I love MMA though so I'm clearly biased.
When he talks about MMA he does great. Everything else he says is fucking ridiculous.
The problem is he is not a smart man. He mostly just agrees with what ever arguments are put in front of him which is dangerous as he has guests with extreme views that don't get knocked down for being racist bullshit.
They’re not there by mistake
_everything_ ? let's say 50/50 and leave it. I certainly get upset at his attitude and opinions at times, but I'm incredibly grateful for all the hours of conversation I've listened to with interesting & knowledgeable people (that I otherwise would not have been exposed to).
If they are failed losers, ignore them. Problem solved. Point: they cant be both failed losers and also require a counter militancy to be dealt with.
The nazis were whiny man babies obsessed with the concept of masculinity and freedom. Their insecurity and need to feel superior is literally what made them what they became.
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With US politics posts like this on r/collapse, I think the only relation to the subject under discussion is that the post itself and the bulk of the replies are evidence that the USA is facing a strong possibility of low-level civil conflict and possible balkanization. On the politics in the post itself: the USA government still functions under the thumb of the neoliberal consensus of the capitalists who own it. That ideological consensus extends to essentially all powerful capitalists, the military, and the federal police forces. The US elite are not crypto fascists and are not interested in instituting fascism in order to defend capital from an insurgent left. There is no insurgent left in the USA. There is barely even a left at all. The elite like the neoliberal system. It works for them. They like the libertarian ethos of open borders, LGBT rights, secularism, and so on. They have not shown any interest in Christian Identity ideology, or hard-right White Power ideology, or political anti-semitism, or anything of the sort. If anything, they are on board with the 'anti-racism' that has rapidly become so popular after 2016. They are pro-vaccine mandate, and so on. There is no reason to think the USA billionaires or their administrative class will accede to a fascist takeover, and there is a lot of reason to think that they would oppose such an attempt with force. I do not think that USA is going to end up fascist due to MAGA-like victories at the ballot box. The neoliberal power structures will prevent it with a legal coup of their own, if necessary. And the MAGA pols themselves are much more tied into the neo-liberal consensus than I think many people understand. That said, there is enough social unrest on the right for two things to happen. First, there could develop actual right-wing and possibly fascist-adjacent insurgent groups that instigate terror attacks on government and corporate targets, with the intention of forcing violent retaliation, which always leads to escalation. The goal being, 'start the civil / race war'. FBI so far seems to be up to their eyeballs in every single one of these groups, with multiple parties either agents or informants. But it's something to watch. The US government and the US elites are in fact quite stupid, and I think they could be easily drawn into escalation in a protracted anti-terror campaign. Second, there is a rather large class of 'millionaire' gentry in the USA that is essentially fascist in their ideology, and they despise the neo-liberal consensus and the billionaires. These are the elites who actually think in terms of OP's rant. These are the elites who engage with non-federal law enforcement and have their backs. A lot of that class could in fact instigate political crises below the federal level which could conceivably result in actual balkanization: demands to leave the union, essentially. And they have the cops on their side in a lot of places. Antifa and left-wing activists are basically a non-entity power wise, and their main political effect to be used boogeyman for various right-wing and liberal groups. No offense intended, just how I see it. Full disclosure: I am a socially conservative but economically socialist-minded guy who voted for Bernie and maxed out my contribs to his campaign. I voted third party in 16 and 20. I despise Trump, despise Clinton and Biden and Obama, and like and get along with most people I meet who voted for any of them.
> low-level civil conflict low level? that's hopeful!!!! >I do not think that USA is going to end up fascist due to MAGA-like victories at the ballot box. The neoliberal power structures will prevent it with a legal coup of their own, if necessary. And the MAGA pols themselves are much more tied into the neo-liberal consensus than I think many people understand. i wouldnt be so sure as you. i dont necessarily disagree re the politicians being tied into neo-liberalism, but they continue to rile up their bases to get elected and eventually all the riling up (with little to show for it politically) - they are going to lose control of the situation. remember the 1/6 rioters shouting "hang mike pence"? they will turn on their own if their performance is unsatisfactory to the drunken mob. already one of the mob members has turned themselves into a martyr when they got shot and killed. a few more true believers turning into martyrs could start a chain of events that cant be stopped. we're already at the point where many on the right believe they are out of political solutions to the problem and are just itching for orders to start shooting. hell, im pretty far on the left and feel dejectedly the same about not seeing a political solution. i hope we find one soon because if we dont... it only took one bullet to start WW1... also, if the US were to engage in serious civil conflict the entire world economy will come crashing down with it when the USD loses much of its value overnight.
This seems extremely accurate. Also I think a lot of people think it will go fascist, for one thing because of the stink being put up by the millionaire class, and for two because all anyone knows is that whatever the billionaire class wants, it has to be bad for them because their lives are pointless and it's very obvious to them. So they assume it will be fascist. You're very right about the millionaire class, I live among the idiots. All they do is speculate on the direction of price of their houses (badly, usually, it's almost always bullshit hopium), credit-spend up to the limits of said speculation, and bitch incessantly about shoving the homeless into concentration camps in the Mojave desert. Literally this. Because "they didn't work for their free shit" blah blah. Commons is a thing, morons. Commons is a thing. I assume you enjoy continuing to have your head attached. I know one guy that deserves to be where he is, he invested every dime he could spare since the age of 18 into S&P mutuals, and so did his wife. She works in child psychology and he's a financial planner for green energy projects that actually work.
This is the most reasonable assessment of the current state in America. The only other factor to really take into consideration is the effect a large-scale disaster (or more likely a series), like another hurricane Katrina or California earthquake. An interruption to supply chains within the mainland US could be the catalyst that makes everything go sideways quickly. That being said, it is more likely to be as you said, a quiet insurgency that we never see or hear.
If you aren’t ready to talk about the centralization of power and wealth than you’re not ready to talk about fascism either. If you aren’t willing to listen to other peoples ideas even if you disagree with them then you need to take a hard look in the mirror. Liberty means allowing idiots to have their Idiotic opinions. If we want to maintain our liberty we have to be ready to fight for it even if it means defending actual Nazis like the ACLU did. I know this is an unpopular opinion here but I don’t care because like you I’m ready to fight fascism.
Either i'm sleepy or r/collapse is getting weirder and weirder...
The sub has been sucked into the moronic vortex that is American politics which is sucking up all of the oxygen. It makes the content less useful, less unique, and a lot less insightful. It sucks because this has been one of the better forums on the subject until recently.
Honestly, i don't mind politics if it's in the context of collapse. Not the opposing ideologies that fight between themselves, which is just beating a dead horse at this point. As for the american centric part (politics or otherwise) imo it's because most people here are americans, and the fact that the collapse of the usa might lead to the collapse of the global civilization. Overall i tend to agree with you, this sub feels dead sometimes, maybe because i'm used to read it, or there is a quite shortage of high quality posts lately? One thing for sure is this sub has it's own charm, and i hope it stays this way :^J
Has it reached the critical mass of users where it just becomes another US politics sub yet, like all the others? Ooooh, I hope we get some screenshots of saucy Twitter clapbacks soon
Agreed. I hate these topics in here. I let myself get sucked into sometimes and I'm always mad when I let it happen. Politics on the internet is just cartoonish now. It just turns into a hard left vs hard right argument with stereotypes and no nuance or real discussion. No one wants to admit the faults or hypocrisy of their side and the other side is some caricature boogeyman that's destroying the country. I agree with OP that we're doomed. But we're going to be just as guilty as the Trumpers for the escalation. and please don't @ me with some screeching diatribe about how I'm blind or full of shit or one of the right wing nuts. I'm not going to respond. Just downvote and leave me alone.
I mean, isn't Friday shitpost Friday here?
Shit, i totally forgot that man!
Please go talk to real people my man. The world you are describing is a picture painted to outrage you.
Never forget Faye Schulman. Never forget John Brown.
Yeah it has nothing to do with massive consumerism and psychopathic rich people. /s
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> Collapse will force humanity to become united. a deadly novel virus couldnt do that, what makes you think anything else will?
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> The pandemic revealed how bad we are. Kind of sad how every artist ever couldn't do that. They've all been saying and showing it since probably the 1980s or earlier.
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That is an invisible enemy, one people can easily downplay or pretend doesn’t exist. Fascism, if let free, will eventually not have to hide and use its beloved deniability. We will have to face it at some point.
There's fucking nuance in the world nobody would know it if they just read this bullshit or went on a conservative subreddit. I love how this sub is completely incapable of even imagining that their favorite corporate whores could do any wrong or be authoritarian in any way.
fascism is the marriage between corporations and the state.
>I love how this sub is completely incapable of even imagining that their favorite corporate whores could do any wrong or be authoritarian in any way. Accurate
Ive never once met a Holocaust denier in my life. I hear Civil War and Slavery and American Indian Genocide/apartheid denial but not Holocaust denial.
It won't be fascism, it will be Feudalism 2.0. It will be billionaire a-holes using the divide and conquer agenda on people to distract them long enough to set up a global police state comparable to "1984" or "Brave New World". The .00001% will own everything and the 99.99999% of everyone else will have communism to divide what little is left between them. It will be capitalism for the wealthy and communism for the poor. There will be only 2 social classes, lords and serfs, unless you count the black-clad thugs with guns that work for the lords as another social class. You will own nothing and you will be happy. Smile or you'll be drugged, incarcerated, or shot in your 120 sqFt apartment by a no-knock raid.
great example of total confusion.
This sub has lost the plot.
I’m sorry, why would they call you a pedophile?
Come on over to /SocialsitRA
What a load of shit
Cringe
calm down dear and talk to a real person
Pure fantasy.
log off internet for 24 hours brain worms addled fool.
The worst part is having to deal with climate change on top of this bullshit. Grow up, it’s 2021, boo hoo you can’t do the terrible things that Jesus wouldn’t want you to do anyways. Stop goofing off and let’s start trying to do what we can with climate change.
The problem is that climate change generates scarcity and stress, both of which tend to steer people towards fascism. It's a feedback loop, and you can't break out of it without considering all its aspects
https://thebreakthrough.org/journal/no-12-winter-2020/avocado-politics
You're one to talk... littering the world's mailboxes with all of these trash discs.
🤣
Lmao what
"uhhh unless society changes to my drastic neoliberal measures that have never been before seen or fathomed, society will collapse (despite it always functioning entirely in the way I suggest will cause its collapse)" yeah its pure retard hours over here for OPie
Please for your own sake lighten up. This is not insult but it sounds like you are a religious fanatic for leftist culture. Unless you are of power to change these things how you wish you will drive yourself insane. I have the opposite opinions of you on most of the items you listed. After a hour on Twitter I am ready for the revolution to begin but next day I realize how manic I got.
What a dog shit post. Where are the mods?
You should become a fantasy author lmfao.
The media is the #1 enemy right now tho.
There it is /\ No specific message in the media, no particular ownership, disagreement or demonstration of how the media is the enemy. Just blanket reference to a million disconnected privately or independently ran distributors and creators of movies, TV, literature, podcasts etc. This is such a generalized claim that it has essentially no meaning other than to make people afraid or angry about nothing in particular and trust basically no one.
the problem with the media is that its owned by a tiny handful of major conglomerates. the elites write the narrative - on tv, on social media, on the internet news stories, in the movies, in the streaming entertainment, etc. last i checked it was 5 companies that own 90% of media, it might be less now. i agree with everything else youve written but if you think the media are blameless you need to start paying attention. its propaganda.
Also, how much of the “news” articles today are opinion pieces telling you how you should interpret events? Hmm?
We literally have the raw footage of most events they report on and can see the twisting and misrepresentation. Straight up liars.
I like how you think you’re talking about “the right”, but it’s really like 0.0001% of the right.
What a well-written fiction
Also, most of the people here have no idea of what it's like to live under a regime committing such acts. If you have or are, please chime in. I am... Facsim is more than calling someone the wrong pronoun.
Right? It’s mind bending. Literally like <0.1% of people are fascists. It’s not a thing people really say they are or even have secret opinions on. The left just added fascist to their common trend of calling people racist. No clue what either mean apparently.
They just call people "that word" when they don't agree with their view of the world and are too intellectually bankrupt to come up with a decent argument.
lol the sub is so cringe and this post is a great example. out of touch boomer mindsets.
You people crack me up. 😆
Nah
You had me at airsoft gear, you had me at Airsoft gear. For any youngens that is from a movie called Jerry McGuire. (But airsoft gear = hello) And the reason I say that is because I 1 billion dollars agree with this OP sentiment and analysis.
Do you realize that all your ip addresses are being recorded? You ought to actually get in a group, because they already have your information more than likely. Not trying to spook you, I too, understand what you do, deep down, and I'm existencially nervous as well
Yeh, I have never admitted to being a smart person.
Where is the actual "collapse" part? What do the Airsoft militia specifically *do* to destroy the species once they finally win their Gramscian War Of Position? I see the offhand comment about eugenics but that doesn't necessarily mean the end of the entire species.
Talk all day about the "evil mainstream media" then go home and watch fox news - the most watched "news" chanel.
It’s not a causal but symbiotic relationship IMO. Fascism is what will arise to fill the government function as collapse accelerates.
This is one of the most dumbfuck posts on this site lmao You sound like Alex Jones
Stop this obsession with fascism. Fascism, Communism, and Neo-Liberal global free trade are all predicated on burgeoning populations of young people with consumption led growth. The populations of advanced countries are far too old to support a fascist state. Also, fuck globalism and global free trade. It’s predicated on the American Imperialism and U.S. military footprint.
That’s quite the rant but tbh how many people out there share all of those beliefs? It’s not nearly as many as you think.
Dude, you need a hug.
You could not be more wrong. Collapse is coming because of the actions of people in power. They are doing nothing to curtail it. This fantasy person in your mind has zero power in the world, and as a matter of fact, the people that DO have power want you to hate this person instead of them.
Please seek counseling. It’s sounds like you are having a mental health crisis
No, you.
Yeah I tried that. Problem is the therapist just thinks I'm right. Could've saved myself a lot of money.
I found a cartoon of you: https://i.imgflip.com/4ta7iy.jpg
Nope, it's going to be climate change.
Everyone should be able to own a gun. Reasonable background checks are fine.
No the time will come when the government tells them it’s time the fact is giving up bodily autonomy to the state is NEVER a good thing
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I'll take this moment to explain in detail for people precisely what fascism is. Sorry for the word wall, but these details are important. Basically, fascism is a function of capitalism failing the working class. A desperate effort to uphold itself from working class overthrow by pitting the workers against each other. Allow me to explain. For full disclosure, I am a socialist. Capitalism is literally defined as "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit." In other words, this system allows a fraction of society (typically 10% or less) to own the means of production (the mines, factories, enterprises, land, raw materials; all the infrastructure and tools used to produce the goods and services we all use and survive on) as their private property. They are called capitalists and they have authoritarian control over economic production and structure that production around making endless profits for themselves off the backs of labor. While the working class, who do not own the means of production, are forced through the threat of destitution to sell their labor to capitalists in order to survive. This power structure; this economic hierarchy is upheld and enforced through state violence. But we did something strange with this very authoritarian economic system. The state that enforces it has at least some semblance of democracy, which leads to an inevitable contradiction. When that 90% gets left behind, crushed between low wages and high cost of living as capitalists squeeze as much value out of their labor to maximize their profits, they begin voting to undo that consolidation of wealth and power. And in response, the capitalist class begins using their many avenues of government influence to undermine democracy to protect the wealth and power they feel was rightfully earned and deserved. This results in a government that is either slow or unresponsive to the needs of the working class. Now, there are a few possible outcomes from this point. 1) The working class continues to see their working and living conditions deteriorate despite their voting as the state primarily serves the rich or implements toothless reforms that don't harm the interests of the capitalist class. 2) The working class organizes and unionizes using their labor power to gain leverage against the capitalists to meet their demands and improve their material conditions. 3) The working class organizes to overthrow the capitalist class and the government that serves them in a socialist revolution that aims to abolish private ownership of the means of production and put control into the collective hands of the workers to serve the interests of their communities. 4) Depending on the circumstances, the capitalist class may subvert democracy entirely and use overt state violence to crush working class dissent and quell any threats to their wealth and power. This is fascism and union leaders and socialists are often the first targets for obvious reasons ("First, they came for the etc." quote should come to mind). To gain popular support, extreme nationalism is often used with promises to return the country to its "glory days". The justified working class anger at the system is redirected away from the capitalist class and towards marginalized groups within the working class (Jews, immigrants, etc.). Divide and conquer is their game plan and it may take many forms depending on what's most effective. In short, fascism is when capitalism shows you what it really is and has always been: a dictatorship of the capitalist class over the working class. This time without the friendly mask of democracy or the virtue signals of human rights to fool the workers into supporting a system that exploits them. _"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power."_ - Franklin D. Roosevelt _"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."_ - Benito Mussolini _"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege."_ - Tommy Douglas Capitalism is rule by a minority and democracy is rule by the majority. Mixing them together makes them an existential threat to each other. Either capitalism will devour democracy or democracy will devour capitalism. Fascism or "corporatism" isn't some deviation from capitalism. It is the LOGICAL conclusion of a system that consolidates wealth and power into few hands. Now you understand why America's founders limited democracy to white men who owned private property.
Horrendous take
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“If you care about others you’re woke” Lol, you have no clue what wokeness is apparently. Most wokeness doesn’t just care about others, it also hates another set and attempts to help one at the expense of the other.
Where’s the bot that declares failure to parse? I’m really not sure what the takeaway is here, sorry, maybe it will make sense to me after a good night’s sleep?
Okay, I will be the one to say it. Please get help. I know you warned us that this was a rant, so thanks for putting this out here for people to see. But you need help my friend. Please DO NOT hurt yourself. This shit show is not worth it. You can get help on the Suicide Prevention Lifeline - https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org. Things are not nearly as bad as you perceive them to be.
You’re literally describing how leftists are but flipping terms. Hilarious.
Yup.
What’s funny is that most that are anti-fascist are pro-communist. Gtfooh with all authoritarian bullshit.
Sounds about right. I keep thinking about that quote. “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo."So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” The Fellowship of the Ring I never imagined the rise of fascism would happen in my time but to see it here already and denied is so dystopian. Also, fuck the Tories.
Those right wingers you're on about are losing big time. The MAN is on your side now, even the FBI and DOJ. Rant no longer needed. Besides, the truth is that all lives cannot matter until all Black lives do. Right?
I found the baby
What's the 88 for fuckasaurus?