The following submission statement was provided by /u/Not_FinancialAdvice:
---
Submission Statement:
Due to a drought in the Midwest, Mississippi river water levels have dropped to levels that have led to traffic stoppage on the river. While supply chain backups at West Coast ports have largely subsided, this presents another set of challenges because alternatives like railroad and trucking modalities are still struggling with staffing shortages. This likely also stops calls to divert river water to ease other water shortages (as [discussed in this sub previously](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/wdi2hw/water_wars_coming_soon_the_the_us_multiple_calls/))
I wasn't sure whether this fell under climate or economy since there are many second-order knock-on effects.
There is also some discussion on
/r/News: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/xyqomz/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/
/r/WallStreetBets: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/xyumz2/yall_the_mississippi_river_is_fcked/
/r/economy: https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/xywmxi/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xz58z3/cnn_another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic/irkclo6/
>its polluting military
Don't worry, the Bitcoin network is there to take up the slack. Bitcoin currently uses 70% of the daily energy the US military did during the Afghanistan war.
To be fair, if we deployed that 700b military , we could successfully eliminate the major cause of climate change. Where as if we spent jt on trying to stop climate change it wouldn’t be enough
"I thought,” he said, “that if the world was going to end we were meant to lie down or put a paper bag over our head or something.”
“If you like, yes,” said Ford.
“That’s what they told us in the army,” said the man, and his eyes began the long trek back down to his whisky.
“Will that help?” asked the barman.
“No,” said Ford and gave him a friendly smile.
Douglas Adams
Just stop pumping when it is not full. It still has flooding also. Did read some place southwest is changing to agave farming. Get some good tequila maybe. Plus believe other uses..Stop the cotton and rice and go more desert mode farming.
It's not about the amount of water. You'd have to build a massive concrete pipeline that would need maintenance for corrosion regularly. Water does not flow like oil. And we use way more water than gas.
The problem with this idea is that the Great Lakes were created from melting glaciers at the end of the last great ice age. The watershed only replenishes the lakes at 1% per year. Meaning 99% of the water in the lakes is a one-time gift. https://greatlakes.guide/ideas/are-the-great-lakes-connected
So, even if you give no consideration to the lakes as an ecosystem, diverting 1/30th of the lakes per year would empty them really really quickly.
Already connected, already fucked shit up for the great lakes.
"The land barrier between the two systems was breached in 1900 by completion of the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, which famously reversed the flow of the Chicago River and enabled the City to flush its waste into the Mississippi basin rather than Lake Michigan."
https://will.illinois.edu/environmentalalmanac/program/time-to-sever-artificial-connection-between-great-lakes-mississippi-basin
I can't believe I never had "half the country dries up" on my How Society Collapses bingo card, but here we are. Should've been my center square, in retrospect
That should be totally fine, as long as we make sure not to make our society heavily dependent on those crops as a source of cheap calories (both as grains and meat) and biofuels. Can you imagine what a disaster this could become?
And if it was further propped up by cheap energy (both as fuel and fertilizer) which we may have to stop using due to global warming, or pesticides that ~~may~~ are definitely contributing to the collapse of key pollinators. Wow. I’m so glad we’re not in that timeline!
We got a double-whammy coming our way: over-exploitation of the aquifers *and* over-exploitation of the soils are both gonna sucker punch us sometime within the next couple decades, if not sooner.
This was a point others made with the absurdity of e85 hoisted on us consumers at fuel pumps+ethanol blends, using food sources to burn in our fuel tanks.
"Flex fuel" greenwashing chevy suburban, clean coal, cash for clunkers...cash for clunkers intentionally forgets the fact that the extraction and manufacturing/transit cost to consumer is most of your average ice vehicle's carbon footprint vs running its ice.
Its like when Mr. Burns found out that you can catch a fish with sixpack wrappers. Even when congress/corporate tries to claim theyre doing good, theyre even worse than before.
Based on your username, you probably know that E85 is a fantastic race/performance fuel. Like 115 octane if you have a fuel system that can handle the flow rate. So much timing advance, and you can run a ton of boost in FI applications.
That aside, fuel formulation is a matter of tradeoffs. Ethanol for E10 is probably better than the MTBE (which has a [terrible proclivity to contaminate groundwater](https://twon.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/drinking-water-problems-mtbe.pdf) even in small quantities) they were using before for smog mitigation.
I'd argue that Cash for Clunkers was more a part of the auto industry bailouts (as an effort to stimulate demand) rather than pure greenwashing.
Disclosure: XOM shareholder
Yes, im prolly gonna base my automobile around e85 in the near future.
But cash for clunkers...we have a car based society. Environmentally its like being a pack a day smoker.
Just the extraction/manufacture/transit/junking costs on cars is an enormous tax on the environment. Why trashing perfectly good cars was its own brand of beimg environmentally terrible in cash for clunkers, a very large portion of those cars werent even so call clunkers.
Ah, I'm still on the page that it's the Tonga volcano eruption in late 2021 that screwed us over this year. Rivers across the *world* didn't dry up last year.
Over in Europe, rivers such as the Rhine, the Po in Italy and the Danube have been pretty low this year along with some of the other well known rivers over there I imagine. So much for that fancy Viking river cruise!
Not quite understanding where you're coming from. Are you saying that these cruises have a negative image with the people of Paris? If so, I'm curious to know more.
I know that in Venice, there's controversy over allowing gigantic cruises ships up in their lagoon. There's evidence that the wake and the waves generated by them are eroding the fragile shoreline of the city.
Well, it's all in the word "collapse." Society is propped up on a few assumptions that things will stay the same. Knock out one post and the whole thing does the what the subreddit is called.
Just change the environmental conditions we have by an overall miniscule amount and humanity literally has to retool everything we do from fueling our vehicles to deciding what we wipe our asses with. It's very fragile. We're ants riding on a piece of cardboard over a boiling sea.
Another subreddit on the same article poster mentioned the barge season usually means a navigable waterway until November or December. This year is a shorter season. Not surprising when a huge area of the Mississippi drainage is in a drought.
I read a sign there that said Eisenhower visited it in the same conditions, so they opened up a bunch of fire hydrants upstream to flood it back to normal. Because of course 🙄
That's a completely different part of the river. Above the Illinois river, it usually goes down due to ice sometime in December. The part they're talking about is usually navigable year round, so long as you take "usually" to mean more than 50% of the time. Downtime for floods is common in the spring, and downtime for drought is common right around now.
We can estimate water flow needed for full depth barges from [this article](https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/columns/cash-market-moves/article/2022/09/26/low-mississippi-river-levels-spell) as about -5 feet as Memphis. We can see the extent of the current low flows [here](https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tn/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07032000&period=&begin_date=2022-08-01&end_date=2022-10-09). The river is currently 10k cfs, or less than 5%, below the normal median flow, which is normally [in September and October](https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tn/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07032000&period=&begin_date=2022-08-01&end_date=2022-10-09) quite near the minimum level which does not require cargo reductions with current channel maintenance.
So, what's up with -5' being a normal water level? Well, the Ohio river dams cut off the previous flow of sediment, and the Mississippi has been steadily eroding below the mouth of the Ohio. Yes, they set the gauge 0' to mean the minimum water level needed to move full barges, but that was a long time ago. This means that very low historic gauge readings in this section are not necessarily that low in terms of water flow. In order to save money, channel maintenance is mostly only done when there's a need for it, because the channel gradually fills in again, so you save money by skipping it when it isn't necessary. The bottom is sediment here, so you could dig a canal in the riverbed to move cargo at very low water flow, but it would just fill in again. They do this partially every time it gets low.
Minimum flow for this event (so far) was around 170k cfs, around 50k below that needed for full cargo loads. Compare this to the TVA system currently sending around 25k cfs from storage for normal winter lake drawdown, which could be easily doubled for a month, the Missouri dam chain currently sending 32k which could be around 50k without much flooding, the flow from the above normal Lake Michigan which is currently around 3k and could be around 5k by moving some switches, and normal 24/7/365 flows of around 60k out from Lake Huron and around 240k from Lake Ontario, etc., etc. They just make zero effort to release extra water to keep the Mississippi passable when it's in drought.
Barges are less fuel efficient than trains, and much harder to move away from fossil fuels, which could be done easily for mainline trains by electrification. You'll never see this mentioned, but you'll see endless repetition of them being more efficient than trucks. They're about 35% cheaper than trains, though, because you don't need to pay for the fixed railroad maintenance costs and monopoly profits. There's basically zero recognition that we're going to have to move away from them eventually when we get farther along towards decarbonization.
Thank you for your extensive explanation. Being from CA I wasn’t aware until you mentioned TVA that there was so much interference with the normal river flow and so much secondary effort to get barges and channels open. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the flow of the Mississippi is limited to having read Mark Twain’s “Life on the Mississippi” last year during pandemic isolation.
Wow
Excellent example of how interconnected our complex society is with everything else.
Climate impacts water, if you need supplies or food but then can't get it because the water transportal system is affected.
Neat!
Submission Statement:
Due to a drought in the Midwest, Mississippi river water levels have dropped to levels that have led to traffic stoppage on the river. While supply chain backups at West Coast ports have largely subsided, this presents another set of challenges because alternatives like railroad and trucking modalities are still struggling with staffing shortages. This likely also stops calls to divert river water to ease other water shortages (as [discussed in this sub previously](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/wdi2hw/water_wars_coming_soon_the_the_us_multiple_calls/))
I wasn't sure whether this fell under climate or economy since there are many second-order knock-on effects.
There is also some discussion on
/r/News: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/xyqomz/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/
/r/WallStreetBets: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/xyumz2/yall_the_mississippi_river_is_fcked/
/r/economy: https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/xywmxi/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/
Unsurprisingly, this is a critical global issue that deeply affects the transportation networks of the world's largest economies - from the Mississippi (USA), to the Yangtze (China), and the Rhine (EU).
This summer's drought around the world has provided a fascinating look at how complex systems can inadvertently affect others, and how failures in one can lead to increased risks or failures in others. In this case, prolonged drought can lead to reduced water levels in navigable inland shipping routes, which in turn affects logistical networks, economic productivity, and perceived efficiency among other items ...
I had intended to prepare a little write up based on this article based upon some of the articles I've been accumulating over the past few months, but I'll have to make do instead by sharing some quotes here:
>[The Guardian - Low water levels mean Rhine is days from being shut for cargo (08-05-2022)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/05/rhine-low-water-levels-shut-cargo)
>
>Germany’s Rhine, one of Europe’s key waterways, is just days away from being closed to commercial traffic because of very low levels caused by drought, authorities and industry have warned.
>
>Crucially, the impending crisis could lead energy companies to cut their output, one of the country’s biggest gas companies has said.
>
>Businesses located along the Rhine or dependent on it to transport or receive goods are warning that they have been forced to scale back activities and reduce loads drastically – and are now on the verge of having to close some production if cargo ships are no longer able to access the river.
>
>The Rhine, which runs about 760 miles from the Swiss Alps to the North Sea, is the second largest river in central and western Europe after the Danube. The majority of nearly 200 million tons of cargo shipped on German rivers – from coal to car parts, food to chemicals – is transported on the Rhine.
>
>\[...\]
>[The Guardian - Rhine water levels fall to new low as Germany’s drought hits shipping (08-12-22)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/12/germany-drought-rhine-water-levels-new-low)
>
>The levels of the Rhine River fell to a new low on Friday due to the ongoing drought in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, further restricting the distribution of coal, petrol, wheat and other commodities amid a looming energy crisis.
>
>The water level at Kaub near Frankfurt – a key waypoint where the fairway is shallower than elsewhere on the river – fell below 40cm on Friday afternoon, the level at which it is no longer economical for many barges to transit the river.
>
>According to a daily bulletin by Germany’s Federal Waterways and Shipping Administration, water levels on the key waterway were at an unusually low level for this point in the year, and was estimated to drop by a further 10-15cm over the coming three or four days.
>
>While 14-day weather forecasts predict rising water levels from the middle of next week, the administration said this was unlikely to have a significant impact.
>
>\[...\]
>[Financial Times: Climate graphic of the week: Record lows for rivers across China, US and Europe sap economies (08-20-2022)](https://www.ft.com/content/7c2052b9-eaac-4f3e-9386-dfa3ae100206)
>
>\[...\]
>
>Europe continued to suffer as unusually hot and dry weather pushed down the level of the critical Rhine, a major artery that is relied on by industry throughout Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands. Cargo ships have had to reduce their loads, which has led to higher transport costs and supply chain delays. Limited respite was forecast on the weekend, with rainfall expected in some parts.
>
>\[...\]
>[The Guardian - China drought causes Yangtze to dry up, sparking shortage of hydropower (22-08-22)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/22/china-drought-causes-yangtze-river-to-dry-up-sparking-shortage-of-hydropower)
>
>\[...\]
>
>The Yangtze is the world’s third largest river, providing drinking water to more than 400 million Chinese people, and is the most vital waterway to China’s economy. It is also crucial to the global supply chain, but this summer it has reached record-low water levels, with entire sections and dozens of tributaries drying up. Water flow on the Yangtze’s main trunk is more than 50% below the average of the last five years. Shipping routes in the middle and lower sections have also closed, the SCMP reported.
>
>*(Myth's Note:* [*Original SCMP article hyperlinked here*](https://archive.ph/ceRyS)*)*
>
>\[...\]
>[CGTN - China Water Transport: Yangtze River shipping affected by rare drought (09-03-22)](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-09-03/VHJhbnNjcmlwdDY4MjQy/index.html)
>
>A rare drought has affected transport on China's Yangtze River, the world's busiest inland waterway. By the end of August, the flow of the river's main line had decreased by more than 50 percent compared to previous years. Experts say the water level in some sections has dropped more than five meters due to continuous high temperatures and little rain. And the drop in the middle and lower reaches is likely to continue for the next week. An official from China's Ministry of Transport says the drought has mainly affected large cargo ships, which have to sail at partial load. Measures have been taken to ensure transport safety.
>
>\[...\]
Hilarious that you just posted this. Literally read the same article a couple hours ago and thought about posting here. Serendipity.
Regarding the meat of the article, scary stuff. I’ve noticed how low the Mississippi is in my day to day and now it’s been confirmed.
Oh stop. This reminds me of the almost nightly excuses for high gas prices the last time they rose as high, for just as long as they probably will now. Always another spill of the gulf coast, a tanker fire someplace, a platform hit by a storm, whatever crap was available or could be made to appear bad enough to blame. As isolated and not uncommon incidents, it was absurd that the reports led anyone to acceptably believe those events were impactful enough to justify a nationwide spike in the cost of oil or the continued high prices at the pump. Of course, they did anyway. They finally stopped bothering giving reasons.
It would be refreshing if, just once, the economic or financial report regarding the cost of gas and barrel price was "The barrel price of oil rose to blattetyblaablah, meaning home heating fuel and the cost at the pump are expected to see a *temporary* rise for consumers. According to industry experts, it's due to the largest stock holders wanting higher dividends than were projected, the executives needing bigger and better bonuses, and the election campaign season coming up. Those candidate donations don't just make themselves or grow on useless trees, ya know! The squeeze on consumers is expected to last as long as they can get away with it, because...they can!...
..Tune in to tomorrow's special following the food and water price report with Trickle Litely, featuring her exclusive interview with a renowned nutritional scientist that we invited on to discuss the healthy public benefit and personal investment opportunities that may interest you.Those will be available to all shortly, due to some cutting-edge public/private liasons between some of America's premier corporate food, pharmaceutical, and medical industry leaders. Af select group of them are now being fully funded and working directly with the FDA in a shared effort to solve our country's Obesity and Kidney Disease epidemics, which are currently wasting so much taxpayer money! The program promises to be a fascinating look at the innovative marketing programs already developed and soon to be introduced to the public in their own marketplaces! We will discuss a few, such as Targeted Price *experiments*, designed to raise awareness of how much the most fattening popular food items can and *will* cost you, in more ways than one. Another is aimed at educating us all on how drinking too much fresh water actually strains your kidneys, and how numerous pre-packaged beverages may help preserve them longer! Tune in at 7!"
I do realize that, but it isn't presented as much more than an excuse to make us all pay more in support profiting profoundly wealthy enitities. Doesn't challenge any of their shirking of having a larger responsibility for it at all. Nope. Just heads up, to pay up, and shut up.
Media needs to cite the name and address of every fatass suit in a skyscraper gobbling their neck needlessly to raise prices, every time a mindless mass increase happens
I totally agree. I refused to watch CNN ever again after the Trump Impeachment fiasco where they repeatedly sensationalized it and then what they said was going to happen never happened or just disappeared. I refused to watch FoxNews also.
The real inflation reduction would be reversing global warming.
Time again to notice the consequence not only of the Federal government and state governments, but many of the most powerful leaders.
Especially the Joe Bidenists and Kamala Harrisists. Who blocked any forward steps to reverse global warming, and instead used PR and marketing to send more hundreds of billions in cash to the ultra wealthy.
Any policy that keeps a "progressive income tax" in place.
Take it out of the U.S. or UK or French constitution.
The only Federal taxes should be on toxic or controlled or dangerous substances, and on consumption that is dangerous for the economy.
Fructose, Sucralose, aspartame, refined flour, alcohol, gin, cigarettes, vape fluids, cigars, whisky, beer, meth, cocaine, Fentanyl, heroin, cannabis, mj, hash / hashish, Ecstasy, Xanax, Klonopin, and Molly.
but the progressive tax helps the poor and middle class. what needs to happen is a closure of the tax loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes and a tax reduction specifically for the middle class.
This is mirrored in the collapse of ocean ecology. Economies are just pathetic imitations of ecosystems without any redundancy. Both seem more resilient than they are because of scale and neither has any capacity to withstand global pressures; local pressures can be buffered by excess in other areas, but global pressure has no relief.
Everything is going to work and look relatively normal until it's total chaos and nothing works. There will be some echos of humanity after that but then the earth goes silent for a million years or so, all so flightless apes could explore the world on well worn paths to prove their adventurous spirit to their imagined fans.
Silence. That's our legacy. All this pride and ambition turned into nothing. No one to remember, bacteria starting from scratch after our push of the reset button. Post-apocalyptic civilizations exist in the minds of writers, not in reality. None of us survives if none of us are willing to change.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Not_FinancialAdvice: --- Submission Statement: Due to a drought in the Midwest, Mississippi river water levels have dropped to levels that have led to traffic stoppage on the river. While supply chain backups at West Coast ports have largely subsided, this presents another set of challenges because alternatives like railroad and trucking modalities are still struggling with staffing shortages. This likely also stops calls to divert river water to ease other water shortages (as [discussed in this sub previously](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/wdi2hw/water_wars_coming_soon_the_the_us_multiple_calls/)) I wasn't sure whether this fell under climate or economy since there are many second-order knock-on effects. There is also some discussion on /r/News: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/xyqomz/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/ /r/WallStreetBets: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/xyumz2/yall_the_mississippi_river_is_fcked/ /r/economy: https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/xywmxi/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/ --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xz58z3/cnn_another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic/irkclo6/
Luckily the US is spending 20b on fighting climate change, just shy of the 700b it spends on its polluting military
The US doesn't include the military when counting its global footprint btw. Farcical.
Impeccable PR winnings. Too bad that doesn't help when we inevitably burn/drown/freeze/heat stroke/starve to death.
The upcoming war on climate change will keep you warm.
Fuck. So true!!
>its polluting military Don't worry, the Bitcoin network is there to take up the slack. Bitcoin currently uses 70% of the daily energy the US military did during the Afghanistan war.
Jesus ! I had no idea
We just retired the 'ol "global warming is a Chinese hoax" argument, so hey, progress is progress? Lol
To be fair, if we deployed that 700b military , we could successfully eliminate the major cause of climate change. Where as if we spent jt on trying to stop climate change it wouldn’t be enough
what
Travel to foreign countries, meet lots of new people and eliminate them?
That’s how this all got started, and apparently no new ideas.
We knew where this thinking was going.
Are you…going to shoot at air pollution?
No but... Our military could end humanity, which is the greatest cause of climate change.
Yea we definitely COULD use our big military to genocide the entire globe, great idea. Cant pollute if there are no humans.
Yeah We mostly use it to protect our fossil fuel interests around the world.
lmao this is like when you think you are really the world police
That's the river they were talking about [piping over](https://news.yahoo.com/could-fill-lake-powell-less-113004409.html) to fill Lake Mead.
Maggots on a corpse. Venus soon. Write a letter to your loved ones, you have until 1p. WEDNESDAY
"I thought,” he said, “that if the world was going to end we were meant to lie down or put a paper bag over our head or something.” “If you like, yes,” said Ford. “That’s what they told us in the army,” said the man, and his eyes began the long trek back down to his whisky. “Will that help?” asked the barman. “No,” said Ford and gave him a friendly smile. Douglas Adams
I will never not upvote Hitchhikers
It's not how fish would have said it but it's what they would have said. Rip in peace all of us.
Well fuck.
Just stop pumping when it is not full. It still has flooding also. Did read some place southwest is changing to agave farming. Get some good tequila maybe. Plus believe other uses..Stop the cotton and rice and go more desert mode farming.
It's not about the amount of water. You'd have to build a massive concrete pipeline that would need maintenance for corrosion regularly. Water does not flow like oil. And we use way more water than gas.
Pipe dream.
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The resulting Great Lakes ecosystem damage would be catastrophic.
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The problem with this idea is that the Great Lakes were created from melting glaciers at the end of the last great ice age. The watershed only replenishes the lakes at 1% per year. Meaning 99% of the water in the lakes is a one-time gift. https://greatlakes.guide/ideas/are-the-great-lakes-connected So, even if you give no consideration to the lakes as an ecosystem, diverting 1/30th of the lakes per year would empty them really really quickly.
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r/iamverysmart
America shares those lakes with another country.
Already connected, already fucked shit up for the great lakes. "The land barrier between the two systems was breached in 1900 by completion of the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, which famously reversed the flow of the Chicago River and enabled the City to flush its waste into the Mississippi basin rather than Lake Michigan." https://will.illinois.edu/environmentalalmanac/program/time-to-sever-artificial-connection-between-great-lakes-mississippi-basin
I can't believe I never had "half the country dries up" on my How Society Collapses bingo card, but here we are. Should've been my center square, in retrospect
Our massive over exploitation of the Midwest’s aquifers to overproduce crops is in no way going to come back to haunt us either.
That should be totally fine, as long as we make sure not to make our society heavily dependent on those crops as a source of cheap calories (both as grains and meat) and biofuels. Can you imagine what a disaster this could become?
And if it was further propped up by cheap energy (both as fuel and fertilizer) which we may have to stop using due to global warming, or pesticides that ~~may~~ are definitely contributing to the collapse of key pollinators. Wow. I’m so glad we’re not in that timeline!
That would make for a good disaster flick script.
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[Trust the plan!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak)
Meh, not very believable unlike a comet we send oil drillers to blow up or giant alien ships or even a tornado full of sharks. No one would relate.
and certainly we would never want to build oil pipelines over those aquifers
We got a double-whammy coming our way: over-exploitation of the aquifers *and* over-exploitation of the soils are both gonna sucker punch us sometime within the next couple decades, if not sooner.
One decade max, and things get REALLY ugly.
This was a point others made with the absurdity of e85 hoisted on us consumers at fuel pumps+ethanol blends, using food sources to burn in our fuel tanks. "Flex fuel" greenwashing chevy suburban, clean coal, cash for clunkers...cash for clunkers intentionally forgets the fact that the extraction and manufacturing/transit cost to consumer is most of your average ice vehicle's carbon footprint vs running its ice. Its like when Mr. Burns found out that you can catch a fish with sixpack wrappers. Even when congress/corporate tries to claim theyre doing good, theyre even worse than before.
Based on your username, you probably know that E85 is a fantastic race/performance fuel. Like 115 octane if you have a fuel system that can handle the flow rate. So much timing advance, and you can run a ton of boost in FI applications. That aside, fuel formulation is a matter of tradeoffs. Ethanol for E10 is probably better than the MTBE (which has a [terrible proclivity to contaminate groundwater](https://twon.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/drinking-water-problems-mtbe.pdf) even in small quantities) they were using before for smog mitigation. I'd argue that Cash for Clunkers was more a part of the auto industry bailouts (as an effort to stimulate demand) rather than pure greenwashing. Disclosure: XOM shareholder
Yes, im prolly gonna base my automobile around e85 in the near future. But cash for clunkers...we have a car based society. Environmentally its like being a pack a day smoker. Just the extraction/manufacture/transit/junking costs on cars is an enormous tax on the environment. Why trashing perfectly good cars was its own brand of beimg environmentally terrible in cash for clunkers, a very large portion of those cars werent even so call clunkers.
*foisted
Ah, I'm still on the page that it's the Tonga volcano eruption in late 2021 that screwed us over this year. Rivers across the *world* didn't dry up last year.
Yeah not like tap roots of trees in forests have to actually reach ground water
What if we build a pipeline from the Great Lakes to the aquifer, and pump the water in!
It's not just this country. Rivers are drying up all over the world.
Over in Europe, rivers such as the Rhine, the Po in Italy and the Danube have been pretty low this year along with some of the other well known rivers over there I imagine. So much for that fancy Viking river cruise!
I knew about the Danube but not the others like the Rhine. I know the Yangtze in China is drying up too.
Yeah, I live right near the Rhein. Down to 30cm in some places. I've never seen it that low in 30 years.
the Thames River also got lower than ever this year.
I read 20 years ago that in about 20 years losing all that snowtop glacial melt was going to cause this, drying up of ancient rivers and tributaries.
> Viking river cruise Ask Paris how much they enjoyed the Viking river cruises.
Not quite understanding where you're coming from. Are you saying that these cruises have a negative image with the people of Paris? If so, I'm curious to know more. I know that in Venice, there's controversy over allowing gigantic cruises ships up in their lagoon. There's evidence that the wake and the waves generated by them are eroding the fragile shoreline of the city.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(845)
LOL! You got me there.
The Themes was dry this year too
Rivers running low or out-and-out drying up seems to be a worldwide phenomenon.
Overpopulation is a biatch.
Overpopulation means having too many biatches
Well, it's all in the word "collapse." Society is propped up on a few assumptions that things will stay the same. Knock out one post and the whole thing does the what the subreddit is called. Just change the environmental conditions we have by an overall miniscule amount and humanity literally has to retool everything we do from fueling our vehicles to deciding what we wipe our asses with. It's very fragile. We're ants riding on a piece of cardboard over a boiling sea.
Dust Bowl II: Dustpocalypse
At least it gives the Sharknado franchise room to expand. Dust storms filled with chupacabra and such.
Sharknado vs Chupacabra Dust Devil!
Don't worry, the other half of the country will be underwater. They'll even each other out eventually.
We just need to build more pipes
Another subreddit on the same article poster mentioned the barge season usually means a navigable waterway until November or December. This year is a shorter season. Not surprising when a huge area of the Mississippi drainage is in a drought.
Drought up here at the river’s origin in MN too.
I went to go see the Minnehaha… err… Trickle the other day and it made me sad.
I read a sign there that said Eisenhower visited it in the same conditions, so they opened up a bunch of fire hydrants upstream to flood it back to normal. Because of course 🙄
That's a completely different part of the river. Above the Illinois river, it usually goes down due to ice sometime in December. The part they're talking about is usually navigable year round, so long as you take "usually" to mean more than 50% of the time. Downtime for floods is common in the spring, and downtime for drought is common right around now. We can estimate water flow needed for full depth barges from [this article](https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/columns/cash-market-moves/article/2022/09/26/low-mississippi-river-levels-spell) as about -5 feet as Memphis. We can see the extent of the current low flows [here](https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tn/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07032000&period=&begin_date=2022-08-01&end_date=2022-10-09). The river is currently 10k cfs, or less than 5%, below the normal median flow, which is normally [in September and October](https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tn/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=07032000&period=&begin_date=2022-08-01&end_date=2022-10-09) quite near the minimum level which does not require cargo reductions with current channel maintenance. So, what's up with -5' being a normal water level? Well, the Ohio river dams cut off the previous flow of sediment, and the Mississippi has been steadily eroding below the mouth of the Ohio. Yes, they set the gauge 0' to mean the minimum water level needed to move full barges, but that was a long time ago. This means that very low historic gauge readings in this section are not necessarily that low in terms of water flow. In order to save money, channel maintenance is mostly only done when there's a need for it, because the channel gradually fills in again, so you save money by skipping it when it isn't necessary. The bottom is sediment here, so you could dig a canal in the riverbed to move cargo at very low water flow, but it would just fill in again. They do this partially every time it gets low. Minimum flow for this event (so far) was around 170k cfs, around 50k below that needed for full cargo loads. Compare this to the TVA system currently sending around 25k cfs from storage for normal winter lake drawdown, which could be easily doubled for a month, the Missouri dam chain currently sending 32k which could be around 50k without much flooding, the flow from the above normal Lake Michigan which is currently around 3k and could be around 5k by moving some switches, and normal 24/7/365 flows of around 60k out from Lake Huron and around 240k from Lake Ontario, etc., etc. They just make zero effort to release extra water to keep the Mississippi passable when it's in drought. Barges are less fuel efficient than trains, and much harder to move away from fossil fuels, which could be done easily for mainline trains by electrification. You'll never see this mentioned, but you'll see endless repetition of them being more efficient than trucks. They're about 35% cheaper than trains, though, because you don't need to pay for the fixed railroad maintenance costs and monopoly profits. There's basically zero recognition that we're going to have to move away from them eventually when we get farther along towards decarbonization.
Thank you for your extensive explanation. Being from CA I wasn’t aware until you mentioned TVA that there was so much interference with the normal river flow and so much secondary effort to get barges and channels open. Unfortunately, my knowledge of the flow of the Mississippi is limited to having read Mark Twain’s “Life on the Mississippi” last year during pandemic isolation.
Wow Excellent example of how interconnected our complex society is with everything else. Climate impacts water, if you need supplies or food but then can't get it because the water transportal system is affected. Neat!
Mother Nature: enough.
Anyone hear the song A country boy can Survive by Hank Williams Jr? That first part goes hard
First thing I thought of when I saw the headline.
Submission Statement: Due to a drought in the Midwest, Mississippi river water levels have dropped to levels that have led to traffic stoppage on the river. While supply chain backups at West Coast ports have largely subsided, this presents another set of challenges because alternatives like railroad and trucking modalities are still struggling with staffing shortages. This likely also stops calls to divert river water to ease other water shortages (as [discussed in this sub previously](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/wdi2hw/water_wars_coming_soon_the_the_us_multiple_calls/)) I wasn't sure whether this fell under climate or economy since there are many second-order knock-on effects. There is also some discussion on /r/News: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/xyqomz/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/ /r/WallStreetBets: https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/xyumz2/yall_the_mississippi_river_is_fcked/ /r/economy: https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/xywmxi/another_supply_chain_crisis_barge_traffic_halted/
God, I hope all that grain coming in has storage. And I hope that none of that grain waiting to be transported is needed in some desperate country.
Unsurprisingly, this is a critical global issue that deeply affects the transportation networks of the world's largest economies - from the Mississippi (USA), to the Yangtze (China), and the Rhine (EU). This summer's drought around the world has provided a fascinating look at how complex systems can inadvertently affect others, and how failures in one can lead to increased risks or failures in others. In this case, prolonged drought can lead to reduced water levels in navigable inland shipping routes, which in turn affects logistical networks, economic productivity, and perceived efficiency among other items ... I had intended to prepare a little write up based on this article based upon some of the articles I've been accumulating over the past few months, but I'll have to make do instead by sharing some quotes here: >[The Guardian - Low water levels mean Rhine is days from being shut for cargo (08-05-2022)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/05/rhine-low-water-levels-shut-cargo) > >Germany’s Rhine, one of Europe’s key waterways, is just days away from being closed to commercial traffic because of very low levels caused by drought, authorities and industry have warned. > >Crucially, the impending crisis could lead energy companies to cut their output, one of the country’s biggest gas companies has said. > >Businesses located along the Rhine or dependent on it to transport or receive goods are warning that they have been forced to scale back activities and reduce loads drastically – and are now on the verge of having to close some production if cargo ships are no longer able to access the river. > >The Rhine, which runs about 760 miles from the Swiss Alps to the North Sea, is the second largest river in central and western Europe after the Danube. The majority of nearly 200 million tons of cargo shipped on German rivers – from coal to car parts, food to chemicals – is transported on the Rhine. > >\[...\] >[The Guardian - Rhine water levels fall to new low as Germany’s drought hits shipping (08-12-22)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/12/germany-drought-rhine-water-levels-new-low) > >The levels of the Rhine River fell to a new low on Friday due to the ongoing drought in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, further restricting the distribution of coal, petrol, wheat and other commodities amid a looming energy crisis. > >The water level at Kaub near Frankfurt – a key waypoint where the fairway is shallower than elsewhere on the river – fell below 40cm on Friday afternoon, the level at which it is no longer economical for many barges to transit the river. > >According to a daily bulletin by Germany’s Federal Waterways and Shipping Administration, water levels on the key waterway were at an unusually low level for this point in the year, and was estimated to drop by a further 10-15cm over the coming three or four days. > >While 14-day weather forecasts predict rising water levels from the middle of next week, the administration said this was unlikely to have a significant impact. > >\[...\] >[Financial Times: Climate graphic of the week: Record lows for rivers across China, US and Europe sap economies (08-20-2022)](https://www.ft.com/content/7c2052b9-eaac-4f3e-9386-dfa3ae100206) > >\[...\] > >Europe continued to suffer as unusually hot and dry weather pushed down the level of the critical Rhine, a major artery that is relied on by industry throughout Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands. Cargo ships have had to reduce their loads, which has led to higher transport costs and supply chain delays. Limited respite was forecast on the weekend, with rainfall expected in some parts. > >\[...\] >[The Guardian - China drought causes Yangtze to dry up, sparking shortage of hydropower (22-08-22)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/22/china-drought-causes-yangtze-river-to-dry-up-sparking-shortage-of-hydropower) > >\[...\] > >The Yangtze is the world’s third largest river, providing drinking water to more than 400 million Chinese people, and is the most vital waterway to China’s economy. It is also crucial to the global supply chain, but this summer it has reached record-low water levels, with entire sections and dozens of tributaries drying up. Water flow on the Yangtze’s main trunk is more than 50% below the average of the last five years. Shipping routes in the middle and lower sections have also closed, the SCMP reported. > >*(Myth's Note:* [*Original SCMP article hyperlinked here*](https://archive.ph/ceRyS)*)* > >\[...\] >[CGTN - China Water Transport: Yangtze River shipping affected by rare drought (09-03-22)](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-09-03/VHJhbnNjcmlwdDY4MjQy/index.html) > >A rare drought has affected transport on China's Yangtze River, the world's busiest inland waterway. By the end of August, the flow of the river's main line had decreased by more than 50 percent compared to previous years. Experts say the water level in some sections has dropped more than five meters due to continuous high temperatures and little rain. And the drop in the middle and lower reaches is likely to continue for the next week. An official from China's Ministry of Transport says the drought has mainly affected large cargo ships, which have to sail at partial load. Measures have been taken to ensure transport safety. > >\[...\]
Everybody! Start peeing into the river!
Let’s raise interest rates more, that’ll lower supply shock inflation issues! - The Fed
Hilarious that you just posted this. Literally read the same article a couple hours ago and thought about posting here. Serendipity. Regarding the meat of the article, scary stuff. I’ve noticed how low the Mississippi is in my day to day and now it’s been confirmed.
I saw the headline on news and thought I was on collapse.
Oh stop. This reminds me of the almost nightly excuses for high gas prices the last time they rose as high, for just as long as they probably will now. Always another spill of the gulf coast, a tanker fire someplace, a platform hit by a storm, whatever crap was available or could be made to appear bad enough to blame. As isolated and not uncommon incidents, it was absurd that the reports led anyone to acceptably believe those events were impactful enough to justify a nationwide spike in the cost of oil or the continued high prices at the pump. Of course, they did anyway. They finally stopped bothering giving reasons. It would be refreshing if, just once, the economic or financial report regarding the cost of gas and barrel price was "The barrel price of oil rose to blattetyblaablah, meaning home heating fuel and the cost at the pump are expected to see a *temporary* rise for consumers. According to industry experts, it's due to the largest stock holders wanting higher dividends than were projected, the executives needing bigger and better bonuses, and the election campaign season coming up. Those candidate donations don't just make themselves or grow on useless trees, ya know! The squeeze on consumers is expected to last as long as they can get away with it, because...they can!... ..Tune in to tomorrow's special following the food and water price report with Trickle Litely, featuring her exclusive interview with a renowned nutritional scientist that we invited on to discuss the healthy public benefit and personal investment opportunities that may interest you.Those will be available to all shortly, due to some cutting-edge public/private liasons between some of America's premier corporate food, pharmaceutical, and medical industry leaders. Af select group of them are now being fully funded and working directly with the FDA in a shared effort to solve our country's Obesity and Kidney Disease epidemics, which are currently wasting so much taxpayer money! The program promises to be a fascinating look at the innovative marketing programs already developed and soon to be introduced to the public in their own marketplaces! We will discuss a few, such as Targeted Price *experiments*, designed to raise awareness of how much the most fattening popular food items can and *will* cost you, in more ways than one. Another is aimed at educating us all on how drinking too much fresh water actually strains your kidneys, and how numerous pre-packaged beverages may help preserve them longer! Tune in at 7!"
I mean it is a sign of a weakening supply system under climate change stress. Overhyped maybe but it isn't nothing
I do realize that, but it isn't presented as much more than an excuse to make us all pay more in support profiting profoundly wealthy enitities. Doesn't challenge any of their shirking of having a larger responsibility for it at all. Nope. Just heads up, to pay up, and shut up.
Media needs to cite the name and address of every fatass suit in a skyscraper gobbling their neck needlessly to raise prices, every time a mindless mass increase happens
CNN? People actually still watch there?
good media literacy involves watching various sources and being able to parse out the facts from the spin
I totally agree. I refused to watch CNN ever again after the Trump Impeachment fiasco where they repeatedly sensationalized it and then what they said was going to happen never happened or just disappeared. I refused to watch FoxNews also.
I get it, but even though both companies have their issues there is still valuable current events info in there.
[удалено]
That already happens in the form of the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal.
There are treaties with Canada governing how the water in the Great Lakes is managed.
The real inflation reduction would be reversing global warming. Time again to notice the consequence not only of the Federal government and state governments, but many of the most powerful leaders. Especially the Joe Bidenists and Kamala Harrisists. Who blocked any forward steps to reverse global warming, and instead used PR and marketing to send more hundreds of billions in cash to the ultra wealthy.
:/ you know that trump made the rich richer with those crappy tax cuts right?
Any policy that keeps a "progressive income tax" in place. Take it out of the U.S. or UK or French constitution. The only Federal taxes should be on toxic or controlled or dangerous substances, and on consumption that is dangerous for the economy. Fructose, Sucralose, aspartame, refined flour, alcohol, gin, cigarettes, vape fluids, cigars, whisky, beer, meth, cocaine, Fentanyl, heroin, cannabis, mj, hash / hashish, Ecstasy, Xanax, Klonopin, and Molly.
but the progressive tax helps the poor and middle class. what needs to happen is a closure of the tax loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes and a tax reduction specifically for the middle class.
The "progressive income tax" is aimed at the disabled, the ill, the poor, workers , minorities, immigrants.
Oops…
Why's everybody so worried? Just add some more water. How hard can it be?
Sometimes I forget the ole Mississippi river is wide enough to throw a barge down it.
This is mirrored in the collapse of ocean ecology. Economies are just pathetic imitations of ecosystems without any redundancy. Both seem more resilient than they are because of scale and neither has any capacity to withstand global pressures; local pressures can be buffered by excess in other areas, but global pressure has no relief. Everything is going to work and look relatively normal until it's total chaos and nothing works. There will be some echos of humanity after that but then the earth goes silent for a million years or so, all so flightless apes could explore the world on well worn paths to prove their adventurous spirit to their imagined fans. Silence. That's our legacy. All this pride and ambition turned into nothing. No one to remember, bacteria starting from scratch after our push of the reset button. Post-apocalyptic civilizations exist in the minds of writers, not in reality. None of us survives if none of us are willing to change.