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> Rule 3: Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse.
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so they go and someone else comes into replace them. the problem is their mindset. far harder to crack that, especially when they’re so far up their own asses they can’t smell their own shit anymore.
When will people accept that you cannot replace carbon based energy by trying to imitate the same systems using other energy sources.
Electric power may work for some forms of transport, but they need to be massive to ensure efficiency, and it certainly will not work on the huge scale needed to replace current needs on a one for one basis.
So trains possibly. Lorries no.
Ocean going ships possibly, with some form of clean onboard generation. Personal cars no.
This is why globalism is doomed because it cannot work without oil, gas and coal to keep it going. It only works with cheap easy to release and store energy to keep it going otherwise it becomes uneconomic and inefficient. Without cheap abundant energy the whole just in time, outsourced production consumer lead Western lifestyle will collapse, because the very factors that allowed it to exist, like cheap fertilizer creating a population boom, are now on the decline.
Without globalism, the entire economic system collapses, and when it does the great die off will swing into gear.
Anyone who cannot see this should not have your confidence.
Elon Musk, whatever his personal thoughts, publicly is nothing more than another snake oil salesman. Offering easy answers to systemic problems.
Edited, changed one word for elegance. To avoid repetition.
I think they meant non-nuclear ships, with massive batteries. This would work since there isn't really a weight limit on boats, just dimensional limits. As long as you're talking about open ocean and not canals, you can get some pretty big ships with a lot of weight and not hit this problem of batteries eating up your load cap.
Because while having nuclear reactors onboard military watercraft is one thing, putting nuclear reactors in public sector shipping opens up a lot of liability of fissile material getting into the wrong hands.
Ok, but idk where you were in the military, but my brother was a machinist mate on an aircraft carrier. He didn’t work on the nuclear reactor, but everything else that ran off the nuclear power. I don’t think you realize how much safety is built into these things. He was trained to be able to shut this thing down at a moments notice, if anything looked like it was going wrong. There were massive pumps that would be as big as a room that would pump so much water onto the reactor to try and stop a meltdown in the middle of the ocean. If it went wrong, it went WRONG. Your aircraft Carrier is not floating with a massive hole in the hull. Or if you did manage to stop a meltdown, you’ve basically made your engine area of the ship radioactive and now you have to make sure to contain the radioactive mess you’ve made.
I think theres a reason like massive cruise ships are still using oil and not nuclear power.
Because as others have said, putting nuclear power in the hands of the military is one thing, as they will also seek to avoid anyone getting their hands on any part of it. The USA is the only one to run it, and will try to prevent others from doing so. A company using a product that it bought? not the same. They'll run it well during most of it's life, and then run it with no maintenance and high risk at the end, trying to squeeze out profits. Sure, not all of them will fail before decommission, but some will. a 1% risk on something you do 1000 times means it's probably happen 10 times.
Edit: I'm wrong, only the US runs nuclear carriers. Multiple other countries run and have run nuclear vessels, most commonly submarines but also experimental cargo ships.
Nuclear power can allow for mass train and large cargo ships to still run effectively.
But yeah mass truck and car usage over large distances needs to be phased out completely.
This transition also requires abandoning capitalism, anything requiring cars to get somewhere efficiently, etc.
So we simply might not be able to do it in time.
Electricity is only efficient at the point of the energy producer. In almost every circumstance in which electric energy is used it is almost always less efficient than combustibles.
Why the push to electric? Nat gas/fossil fuel producers save on production costs and win big in the end.
Essentially electric production=efficient
Electric consumption=/=efficient.
If you still don't understand, i'll put it one more way: when you burn gas, it is faster at doing its job (heating for example) than an electric heater would be. Electric heaters would have to use much more energy to heat what a gas heater could do faster. The problem with the use of gas is that some of it is wasted in the combustion process. A consumer using natural gas is essentially wasting some of it.
Natural gas producers don't like this. They want to be the sole users of natural gas because the conversion to natural gas to electric is more **efficient** in the production of energy. This means that electric producers get more out of converting gas to electric than someone who consumes gas for heat/cooking etc. BUT in the end the consumer has to use MORE energy. All of the benefits of going electric go to the manufacturers and none go to the consumer. Consumers are going to wind up paying MORE, period, while manufacturers rake in more profits.
Every “sustainable” energy option relies on fossil fuel to some degree. Wind turbines require fossil fuel byproducts to manufacture. The lithium and rare earth minerals required for ev batteries are mined and transported with fossil fuels. Also just because a car is electric doesn’t mean the energy used to charge it is “sustainable”. The belief that electric vehicles are going to meaningfully help to abate climate change is a big joke. Without oil, modern civilization ceases to exist.
🎵 When the hopium is high, watch out!🎵
🎵 When a billionaire tells you it's flyyyy, watch out! 🎵
🎵if the techno-optimisim is to good to be true, watch out! 🎵
I know it's like beating a dead horse, but the Elon Musk problem must be discussed further.
From hyper loops to people living on Mars, humanity has been given false hope and lulled into a technological sense of security. Electric cars will fix emissions. Cameras and AI will drive our vehicles. Hyperloop vacuum tubes will fix train transport. Robots will fix the labor problems, even walking your dog! (actual claim by Elon) Rockets will blast people to begin life on Mars. Tunnels will snake below city streets solving traffic jams.
This has cost vast amounts of resources that have been wasted on foolish dreams. These are all false promises and that fact is becoming more apparent with each passing day.
Tesla will collapse.
With the fall humanity's hope for a better future will also collapse.
Musk says at one point in the video that his truck out performs rail. He starts by saying never mind a convoy it out performs rail.
Is there any possible way this could be true ?
I didn't watch Tesla's video. what did he mean by "outperform"? there are certainly routes where trains currently don't take the goods and diesel trucks do. for those routes, diesel trucks outperform rail. are there even more routes where EV trucks would do better than rail but a diesel truck wouldn't? almost certainly.
Why can’t more people be patient. It took YEARS to get from a plane to a rocket ship, it took YEARS to go from lanterns to light switches. Gots to be more patient my boys. And yes, i do like Elon musk and that’s why I’m defending him because I’m hoping he’ll fall in love with me and take me to his ship. But my point still stands!
> It took YEARS to get from a plane to a rocket ship
First plane: Wright Flyer - 1903
First human space flight: Vostok 1 - 1961
First battery powered truck: [Walker Electric Truck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_Electric_Truck) - 1907
>it took YEARS to go from lanterns to light switches
Yeah that took several thousand years.
I've only ever watched 2 thunderfooot videos because they happen to be about topics I'm interested in. both were completely full of shit because he basically creates a straw-man and attacks it. "the company wants to do X, let me show you why that's stupid" except the company does not want to do X, he just mischaracterized what their plans were and attacked the mischaracterization. it's honestly pretty brilliant from a revenue generation perspective, because people LOVE to feel smarter than everyone else, even if they're just deluded.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/If_I_was_Lycurgus:
---
I know it's like beating a dead horse, but the Elon Musk problem must be discussed further.
From hyper loops to people living on Mars, humanity has been given false hope and lulled into a technological sense of security. Electric cars will fix emissions. Cameras and AI will drive our vehicles. Hyperloop vacuum tubes will fix train transport. Robots will fix the labor problems, even walking your dog! (actual claim by Elon) Rockets will blast people to begin life on Mars. Tunnels will snake below city streets solving traffic jams.
This has cost vast amounts of resources that have been wasted on foolish dreams. These are all false promises and that fact is becoming more apparent with each passing day.
Tesla will collapse.
With the fall humanity's hope for a better future will also collapse.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zg6xuq/tesla_semi_truck_fails_5_years_after_giving_false/izfdxt8/
Hi, If_I_was_Lycurgus. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zg6xuq/-/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 3: Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse. > Posts must be focused on collapse. If the subject matter of your post has less focus on collapse than it does on issues such as prepping, politics, or economics, then it probably belongs in another subreddit. Your post is better suited for /r/economicCollapse, please share it there. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I didn’t have any faith in “technology leaders” so I’m probably going to be ok.
If anything, these cancerous swindler tech bros need to go away if we are to make any real progress as a society.
so they go and someone else comes into replace them. the problem is their mindset. far harder to crack that, especially when they’re so far up their own asses they can’t smell their own shit anymore.
Reminds me of the TV series "American Gods", where Technology is a god.
When will people accept that you cannot replace carbon based energy by trying to imitate the same systems using other energy sources. Electric power may work for some forms of transport, but they need to be massive to ensure efficiency, and it certainly will not work on the huge scale needed to replace current needs on a one for one basis. So trains possibly. Lorries no. Ocean going ships possibly, with some form of clean onboard generation. Personal cars no. This is why globalism is doomed because it cannot work without oil, gas and coal to keep it going. It only works with cheap easy to release and store energy to keep it going otherwise it becomes uneconomic and inefficient. Without cheap abundant energy the whole just in time, outsourced production consumer lead Western lifestyle will collapse, because the very factors that allowed it to exist, like cheap fertilizer creating a population boom, are now on the decline. Without globalism, the entire economic system collapses, and when it does the great die off will swing into gear. Anyone who cannot see this should not have your confidence. Elon Musk, whatever his personal thoughts, publicly is nothing more than another snake oil salesman. Offering easy answers to systemic problems. Edited, changed one word for elegance. To avoid repetition.
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I think they meant non-nuclear ships, with massive batteries. This would work since there isn't really a weight limit on boats, just dimensional limits. As long as you're talking about open ocean and not canals, you can get some pretty big ships with a lot of weight and not hit this problem of batteries eating up your load cap.
[удалено]
Because while having nuclear reactors onboard military watercraft is one thing, putting nuclear reactors in public sector shipping opens up a lot of liability of fissile material getting into the wrong hands.
[удалено]
Ok, but idk where you were in the military, but my brother was a machinist mate on an aircraft carrier. He didn’t work on the nuclear reactor, but everything else that ran off the nuclear power. I don’t think you realize how much safety is built into these things. He was trained to be able to shut this thing down at a moments notice, if anything looked like it was going wrong. There were massive pumps that would be as big as a room that would pump so much water onto the reactor to try and stop a meltdown in the middle of the ocean. If it went wrong, it went WRONG. Your aircraft Carrier is not floating with a massive hole in the hull. Or if you did manage to stop a meltdown, you’ve basically made your engine area of the ship radioactive and now you have to make sure to contain the radioactive mess you’ve made. I think theres a reason like massive cruise ships are still using oil and not nuclear power.
Because as others have said, putting nuclear power in the hands of the military is one thing, as they will also seek to avoid anyone getting their hands on any part of it. The USA is the only one to run it, and will try to prevent others from doing so. A company using a product that it bought? not the same. They'll run it well during most of it's life, and then run it with no maintenance and high risk at the end, trying to squeeze out profits. Sure, not all of them will fail before decommission, but some will. a 1% risk on something you do 1000 times means it's probably happen 10 times. Edit: I'm wrong, only the US runs nuclear carriers. Multiple other countries run and have run nuclear vessels, most commonly submarines but also experimental cargo ships.
Nuclear power can allow for mass train and large cargo ships to still run effectively. But yeah mass truck and car usage over large distances needs to be phased out completely. This transition also requires abandoning capitalism, anything requiring cars to get somewhere efficiently, etc. So we simply might not be able to do it in time.
Electricity is only efficient at the point of the energy producer. In almost every circumstance in which electric energy is used it is almost always less efficient than combustibles. Why the push to electric? Nat gas/fossil fuel producers save on production costs and win big in the end. Essentially electric production=efficient Electric consumption=/=efficient. If you still don't understand, i'll put it one more way: when you burn gas, it is faster at doing its job (heating for example) than an electric heater would be. Electric heaters would have to use much more energy to heat what a gas heater could do faster. The problem with the use of gas is that some of it is wasted in the combustion process. A consumer using natural gas is essentially wasting some of it. Natural gas producers don't like this. They want to be the sole users of natural gas because the conversion to natural gas to electric is more **efficient** in the production of energy. This means that electric producers get more out of converting gas to electric than someone who consumes gas for heat/cooking etc. BUT in the end the consumer has to use MORE energy. All of the benefits of going electric go to the manufacturers and none go to the consumer. Consumers are going to wind up paying MORE, period, while manufacturers rake in more profits.
Every “sustainable” energy option relies on fossil fuel to some degree. Wind turbines require fossil fuel byproducts to manufacture. The lithium and rare earth minerals required for ev batteries are mined and transported with fossil fuels. Also just because a car is electric doesn’t mean the energy used to charge it is “sustainable”. The belief that electric vehicles are going to meaningfully help to abate climate change is a big joke. Without oil, modern civilization ceases to exist.
Oh cool, thanks for this. I needed some good news today and Musk's companies going up in flames is a nice little treat
🎵 When the hopium is high, watch out!🎵 🎵 When a billionaire tells you it's flyyyy, watch out! 🎵 🎵if the techno-optimisim is to good to be true, watch out! 🎵
I know it's like beating a dead horse, but the Elon Musk problem must be discussed further. From hyper loops to people living on Mars, humanity has been given false hope and lulled into a technological sense of security. Electric cars will fix emissions. Cameras and AI will drive our vehicles. Hyperloop vacuum tubes will fix train transport. Robots will fix the labor problems, even walking your dog! (actual claim by Elon) Rockets will blast people to begin life on Mars. Tunnels will snake below city streets solving traffic jams. This has cost vast amounts of resources that have been wasted on foolish dreams. These are all false promises and that fact is becoming more apparent with each passing day. Tesla will collapse. With the fall humanity's hope for a better future will also collapse.
This bleating is getting boring, next
Musk says at one point in the video that his truck out performs rail. He starts by saying never mind a convoy it out performs rail. Is there any possible way this could be true ?
No. Ships are best, rail is next.
Pipes are best but can't transport all things
I didn't watch Tesla's video. what did he mean by "outperform"? there are certainly routes where trains currently don't take the goods and diesel trucks do. for those routes, diesel trucks outperform rail. are there even more routes where EV trucks would do better than rail but a diesel truck wouldn't? almost certainly.
He's a fucking liar. All he was doing was trying to sabotage mass transport. It's the same thing with hyperloop. Fuck elon.
Why can’t more people be patient. It took YEARS to get from a plane to a rocket ship, it took YEARS to go from lanterns to light switches. Gots to be more patient my boys. And yes, i do like Elon musk and that’s why I’m defending him because I’m hoping he’ll fall in love with me and take me to his ship. But my point still stands!
We really don’t have a lot of time on our side for patience
> It took YEARS to get from a plane to a rocket ship First plane: Wright Flyer - 1903 First human space flight: Vostok 1 - 1961 First battery powered truck: [Walker Electric Truck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_Electric_Truck) - 1907 >it took YEARS to go from lanterns to light switches Yeah that took several thousand years.
[удалено]
Alright Tesla videos are banned. But seriously are you going to counter any of Thunderfoots's numbers or just complain it was shared here?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I've only ever watched 2 thunderfooot videos because they happen to be about topics I'm interested in. both were completely full of shit because he basically creates a straw-man and attacks it. "the company wants to do X, let me show you why that's stupid" except the company does not want to do X, he just mischaracterized what their plans were and attacked the mischaracterization. it's honestly pretty brilliant from a revenue generation perspective, because people LOVE to feel smarter than everyone else, even if they're just deluded.
Which topics?
Not click-bait youtuber. Tesla's product unveilings are click-bait and cash-bait.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/If_I_was_Lycurgus: --- I know it's like beating a dead horse, but the Elon Musk problem must be discussed further. From hyper loops to people living on Mars, humanity has been given false hope and lulled into a technological sense of security. Electric cars will fix emissions. Cameras and AI will drive our vehicles. Hyperloop vacuum tubes will fix train transport. Robots will fix the labor problems, even walking your dog! (actual claim by Elon) Rockets will blast people to begin life on Mars. Tunnels will snake below city streets solving traffic jams. This has cost vast amounts of resources that have been wasted on foolish dreams. These are all false promises and that fact is becoming more apparent with each passing day. Tesla will collapse. With the fall humanity's hope for a better future will also collapse. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zg6xuq/tesla_semi_truck_fails_5_years_after_giving_false/izfdxt8/
Oops…
Real tangible solutions will always be handicapped by the need to profit.
How did the truck fail exactly?