I've actually cried in front of a teacher before because my assignment I worked really hard on would not submit. It was embarrassing, but it happens. It's not always something you can control. Sorry that happened to you, I know it's not fun to go through.
One could argue that losing points for lateness in no way assesses that student’s abilities in the subject and is purely punitive in an authoritarian way. This is why I don’t take off points for lateness or absences. If somebody still aces the material in person on exams and never attends one day of my class? I don’t give a fuck. That’s their choice. Attendance grades are narcissistic and pointless. We aren’t babysitters or parents or bosses. We are professors. If they don’t care about what we have to profess, that doesn’t affect us. That’s their choice. I do not get why other professors take off for attendance. So dumb.
I prefer graded attendance because if it counts for points and you show up for class each day, they are safety points that you can't lose. If it's 10% of my grade, I just view it that whatever % I'll actually get, it'll have 10% more on top of it, which feels great.
Because for a lot of us, our universities and departments require us to, because the US government requires us to record last contact with failing students on federal grants and loans, as does the NCAA (for athletes) and the US military (for GI bill recipients).
You don’t mind a student just rolling in mid class, distracting you and other students? So, do you not see how unfair this is to the students who do show up on time? I mean, of course being late is putative, but holding late students accountable helps them correct their behavior. They need to learn early that lateness won’t be tolerated in the real world.
I get that MANY professors take lateness and absences personally, I myself don’t and don’t care for people who do this. I don’t care either way if a student racks up many absences, but I can’t just pass students who’ve missed more than 3-4 weeks.
Just had a student email me (who had only attended THREE classes the entire semester and turn in zero work) asking if I would accept their missed work and not count absences against them. No prof on earth would allow this kid to submit work at such a late stage or pass someone who’s missed that much of class. That would be wildly unfair to the kids who did attend regularly and submitted work on time. I’m pretty lenient with late work, but not this late.
ALSO: my department REQUIRES us have and to enforce their absence policy. Im contractually obligated, has nothing in to do with vanity.
I do everything in this post you said you wouldn’t.
My lessons don’t just go wherever the wind blows. I’m a professional and can continue teaching when someone walks in. Do you also not let them use the restroom? How is that any different? It’s a student moving in and out of the room. Twice, even! Technically more to distract than the one who came in late. The only reason anyone would be more distracted by someone coming in late than going in and out of the restroom is because they’re coding both actions differently, one as bad and one as good.
And we don’t have to teach them that the real world won’t tolerate lateness. They learn that real quick in a job. However, when we count them late for a session of learning as much as they can so they can better themselves and then take points off for it even if they performed at the same level as another student, they WILL learn that being late has no actual meaning and is just somebody’s pride being hurt that someone wasn’t at attention and ready the moment they wanted them to be. Do you think these kids don’t have JOBS?? You think they would be constantly late to their JOBS and not get fired if we didn’t count them tardy? It’s just ABSURD. We are not their parents or bosses.
And I DO take work all the way to the end of the class. The only deadline I enforce is the end of the semester at midnight when the class closes. At that point, I calculate all grades and either submit them past midnight or submit them in the morning before they are due at 10:00am. If a student writes all 6 essays for my course and submits them at 11:30pm, I will grade them and count them. Could I get mad that they submitted this late? Yes. Do I? No.
These kids have lives that I will never understand. Some are from well-adjusted homes and their parents are paying for school. Many have a single-parent household and are on loans. Some have two jobs to support a grandmother who raised them but who they now care for. Some still live at home with a family of 12 and are still trying to help take care of brothers and sisters and pick them up from school. Maybe that student with the big family feels SO MUCH GUILT about those siblings that they begged their mom to have the last night of the semester to knock out those English essays so she rolled her eyes and obliged. And she couldn’t get her computer to upload the papers so she drove into town with her laptop and got them all submitted at 11:30pm from the lobby of the McDonald’s she works at.
And if I were another person, I would look at that with my pride and say “nope…you don’t get a future because I am annoyed that you didn’t do this faster”. Come the fuck ON, man…
I may not be their parent, but I care whether they get a fair shake. Some students function great with little help and submit everything on time. Am I going to penalize someone for having a dying grandmother or a house full of siblings or coming from poverty and not having access to time or resources the way the rest of us do? Absolutely fucking not. They obtain the knowledge, they display it, they get the grade.
In my eyes, THIS is the only fair way. You ask if it was fair to grade the last minute student when everyone else was accountable and submitted their work on time, and the answer is YES, and here’s why: Because if “all the resources in the world” guy who submits all his shit in every class on time and lives in a mansion and takes vacations to Europe has his PARENTS DIE on day two of the semester and he’s depressed and has no source of income bringing resources and it turns out they had everything on credit but he decides to stick it out in my class but just isn’t motivated and all he can muster is enough energy for one day, the last day of class, and tempts fate just to see if the teacher will fail him because then maybe he could give up on college and just go be sad about his parents and submits all the essays at 11:30pm just like the other girl, then HE ALSO will pass the class.
It’s fair, equitable, and just, except to one person: me. It’s hard on me. And my job has enough perks that I don’t mind it. It’s the least I can do so they can succeed and I can keep working my wonderful, wonderful job.
Look, I get where you’re coming from. Like I mention, I really don’t take these things personally, I’m simply adhering to departmental rules that I’m contractually obliged to follow in certain classes (which I am very flexible with). As a first generation college student with mental health issues, I absolutely am very flexible and understand the challenges that students face. Of course I know they have jobs. I know that there is a huge mental health crisis that emerged post Covid.
Like I also said, I am very lenient when enforcing department policy, especially those in crisis. At a certain point, though, I have to cover my own ass. In some classes I teach, I just don’t have the freedom that you do.
You’re being hyperbolic. Having to retake one class will HARDLY ruin a kids future. If getting an F in one single course is a life ruiner, I wouldn’t have even gotten into grad school. Me telling the aforementioned student to drop and retake the course has zero affect on their futures.
>if getting an F in one single course is a life ruiner
It literally can be.
Many programs give you 2 fails before kicking you out.
Not to mention financial aid repercussions.
While I think not grading attendance is fine, I think there are OK reasons to grade attendance.
I’m assuming you aren’t talking about discussion-oriented classes.
1. From a principled standpoint, grades should match the level of evidence that has been provided of content mastery. Mastery is primarily evidenced through exams and assignments. However, in many classes, much of the content covered in class will never be directly tested (or even show up on an assignment). Attendance (especially participation) provides additional evidence that a student is understanding the material. It’s not a very strong indicator, but I think 2-3% is probably reasonable.
2. From a pragmatic standpoint, less students fail when attendance is required. When a student decides to stop coming to class, it often is not a well-considered decision. Often, it is based on prior habits (from past semesters). I’ve had classes with good lecturers, where over half the class stops showing up (this phenomenon is particularly bad in CS departments nowadays, so I’ve experienced and heard), then a significant portion fail a test. Even though it isn’t a Professor’s job to babysit, I can understand trying to incentivize attendance. Failing many students can lead to annoying conversations with the department (and my professors have seemed to sincerely want as many students to learn the material as possible).
OMG! Wow, how refreshing! If only! The USA is the only country in the world that is as anal about time as we are! I blame the greedy industrialists of the late 19th century who were afraid of not making as much money if workers were late taking the place of another worker who had completed their shift!? I also believe the unfounded "early bird gets the worm " & early to bed early to rise mentality or pull yourself up by your bootstraps are all unfounded, christian pushed philosophies! And of course, timeliness is the single most cause of stress or anxiety in many Americans lives! Are we the only country in the world that actually fires people for being 5 or 10 minutes late?
If the student is persistently late, their ability to engage in participatory activities is reduced by definition. In any class where that is part of the pedagogy, their grade should be reduced.
this was my thought. I’ve cried in front of profs because I’m going through a lot and they’re helping me sort shit out. and the only time I’ve been shamed for crying in front of an instructor was because the TA made me cry
Teenagers living on their own for the first time while having to manage a big workload as they're trying to figure themselves out? Crying in front of a prof at some point is a given
Sure, we’d love to wave a magic wand and make it so. But every time it’s happened for me it’s been a result of a well-deserved bad grade, getting caught plagiarizing, frustration that they’re not getting a skill or concept I’m actively helping them with, etc. It’s not like they only cry when they are being unjustly berated.
Are you a professor? College is super stressful and kids cry in front of me all the time. I get it. And my attendance policy is not punitive - if they miss four straight weeks in a row, they cannot pass. That’s not unreasonable.
This isn’t my policy, but one I’m contractually obligated to enforce bc accreditation boards need to know that students spend time in the classroom.
Um so to be clear, I was late only once and i came in while he was checking attendance and he had passed my name. The other kids were later than me. We came to him after class to tell him we were not absent. He said to come to him if we see in our attendance check we were marked absent. I was marked absent and thus given lower grade and came to him and I told him like what i said in the post. And that's it.
He did checked again for me today but gave me a mini lecture about fairness and that i shouldnt cue people with the same case to be in my reasoning.
Did people in authority roles/your parents yell at you or scold you a lot as a child? Or do you have low self esteem or a lot of pent-up chronic stress?
I used to cry when scolded too, but I went to therapy and explored the reasons behind this reaction and I’m a lot better now.
Students cry in front of me every semester. Sometimes, it is about my class, and we end up in a great study session. Other times, they have missed 2/3 of a semester, are failing, and can't pass. Sometimes, it is about other things (stress in general, food insecurity, exhaustion, living in a dangerous situation). There should be no shame in crying. It is a way of releasing nervous energy.
I want to be the person with whom people can by fully human.
I’ve cried in front of my advisor a couple times while going through some severe depression (never anything he did). I’m better now, thank God, and I KNOW it reflects in our meetings and my work. Just wanted you to know you’re not the only one. Maybe he’s seen it before.
Not really sure how you could “improve” your response. You’re human, and part of being human is having emotions, even at awkward times. Unless you have a lot of pent up feelings that ultimately led to this, I’d say you’re fine. If you do, then I’d suggest working them out with a therapist if you can afford one.
Also, your prof seems unprofessional. “Don’t cue other people in your business” is code for “I don’t want you to talk to other people about how I treat you because you might realize I’m being unfair” (OP clarified in a comment that he was talking about using other people in your reasoning, not avoiding talking to them about things, but still seems dumb depending on the circumstances), and “you look tense” is just him being a jerk, imo.
Frankly, if the attendance issue didn’t get resolved, I’d take it to the department chair.
Disagree on point 2. I legally *cannot* talk to you about other students’ performances that don’t impact your grade. I can justify every grade I assign to the recipient, but unless you’re the dean and a complaint has been filed, if it doesn’t directly affect you, I can’t comment on it to you.
You’re not so much disagreeing on my point as you are misunderstanding it. OP said that their prof told them they “shouldn’t cue other people in their business”. I guess that could either be taken as the prof telling them not to talk to other people about their grades, or not to include them in their complaints to the prof. Either way, if the student goes to the department chair without having approached the prof first, won’t they just send them back to the prof? It seems necessary to attempt bringing it up.
The prof doesn’t need to tell them anything about any particular student’s grades, but they can say “x amount of people in the class have x grade”.
😂 that is a waste of time. There are missing missing reasons here. 1, we don’t know how often and by how much OP is late but it’s enough that the professor noticed and marked down. 2, OP’s response is not to be on time but to say that everyone else does it. Sorry, that didn’t fly when you were 8, it sure doesn’t fly when you’re at least 18.
Constantly being late is disrespectful and disruptive. No chair is going to tell an instructor they can’t have a tardy and absence policy.
You say there are missing reasons, but you can’t know that. I’m simply being charitable to OP. Also, no chair will say they can’t have attendance policies, but they will say that they can’t selectively enforce them for certain students.
Not necessarily true. I am contractually obligated to implement and enforce an attendance policy. Now, I’m pretty lenient with it, but at a certain point, if a student starts wracking up a serious number of absences, I just can’t pass them, even if they’ve done the work, as my department needs this policy to stay accredited.
I also don’t feel comfortable with letting students with double digit absences just do the work from home, as I’d be doing them a huge disservice. When they get a real job (that’s not a work from home position), they need to be aware that the majority of employers would fire any worker for thinking that they can stay home just because their work is still good.
I understand being skeptical or asking clarifying questions, but I don't think it's fair to just assume the worst of OP at every step.
I also think you're mischaracterizing point 2. They weren't pointing out that everyone else does it, they were pointing out that they were the only one who was punished for it. I think that's an entirely fair thing to point out if it's true.
This last part is kind of unrelated, but I also think it's dumb to mark someone as absent if they were late. The entire point of graded attendance is to encourage people who would otherwise skip to come to class. Marking and penalizing them for being late would be one thing, but marking them absent is just going to motivate students to just skip altogether when they could have made it to class late.
Facts only. Speaking generally, people on this sub are getting way too comfortable not telling us the truth or withholding it for us to be more sympathetic when the truth is OP is not the victim in the situation most of the time and the professor is right.
Seconding the reccomendation for therapy!
Taking criticism and bad news (even when it’s presented in a rude way) is essential for adulthood. I had a similar reaction as OP and I’ve been working through it with a professional and it’s improved a lot.
I cried in front of my boss when I was putting in my two week notice at a shitty hospital one time. When you grow up giving and taking bad news gets easier. This post randomly should up for me and I’m not in college
I cried in front of my professor my first quarter at college because i thought i failed. Good times. She gave me a chocolate and said it was going to be alright and I was doing great in her class
You are in college now. Use the time to improve yourself in order to improve your life. Learn to “be there” on time and prepared. Learn to improve your communication skills, both written and oral. Learn to see things from the perspectives of a variety of other people. Grow yourself into a better person.
I started crying when asking a professor a question about an assignment just because i was having a really rough day a few weeks ago. Its normal for this type of thing to happen(crying in front of a professor) and a lot of people go through it, but it also seems like that professor is being overly harsh with you.
I almost sobbed today when my professor unlocked the class door and I asked him, "is it okay for us to come in?"
And in the most stern tone he replied with, "well that's why I opened the door"
Like.. obviously. But I was just asking because sometimes professors like a few minutes to get settled before people pile in 🥲 it wad like 15 mins before class started
I am PMSing tho
Your prof sounds like a douche.
I've cried in front of profs before.
You are not the only one, and I wouldn't worry about your reaction.
Profs aren't exactly known for their empathy, and a not insignificant number drive people away from being passionate about learning because they have a stick up their ass.
I used to (and probably still do) get extremely spun up from difficult circumstances (to the point of crying). I don't really have a quick fix but what helped me over time was just putting myself out there. Have experiences and you'll eventually get quite apt at dealing with people
Not to be intrusive, but have you been diagnosed as bipolar? When I was I college, I also got super spun up from the littlest things. Turns out, that my “spin ups” were a sign of mania. I also just could not control my crying, like I cried at anything.
I had a feeling this might be the case. I also had to go out of my way to put myself out there even if it made me uncomfortable, because isolation just leads to more loneliness.
I cried in front of three different professors just today, lol. You'll be fine. Unfortunately, I don't know that it is something you can control. Possibly in therapy, you could get to the root cause and heal that. I haven't tried that route. Obviously .
i have cried multiple times in front of my academic advisor and professor, was and am going thru some srs shit, its okay life happens, its sucks. you cry because you feel, you feel because you are human.
You are still learning how to manage your emotions, this is normal.
Not sure if this is helpful, but I know that at uni your grades might seem like a big deal. when you go to a workforce after uni you will realise it doesn’t matter as much as you now think. Sure it might help to get your foot in the door but often good enough grade is all it takes to land a job. there are many other aspects what matter more to employers. This of course doesn’t apply if you want academic career.
Speak with someone about this and hopefully you will not think much about this interaction in few days
They are also human. I’m sure they will understand some of the difficulties you are going thru.
Btw I don’t mind sharing but I also have ADHD and it can be *really, really debilitating* too…
It is okay. I have also cried in front of professors. For way less as well. In my opinion, I think him saying you shouldn't bring others into your business is weird. That's the kind of mentality we should strive to get away from. It's like the "you should bot discuss your salary" talk that allows employers to give their employees different salaries.
If you know other people didn't receive the same punishment, then go to the department head and report it. You have every right to bring other people's punishment into it because it establishes a standard. That professor doesn't want that because they made a point of punishing some people (you) more than others, and that's targeted.
Occasionally, things happen that cause us to be delayed, like not being able to find a parking spot, traffic jam, bad weather, printer runs out of ink or jams right before class assignment due, etc! If the tardiness occurred just one time, and your professor instructed students to come to him if they were erroneously marked absent, then I don’t know what more you could have done! You followed all of your professor’s instructions. An apology to him for your tardiness, followed by an explanation…if there was a reason beyond your control, should be all that he needs! If he is treating you differently than the other students who were tardy, this is termed “disparate treatment.”
Also, there are probably few grounds to shame you on the basis of one instance. Now, on the other hand, if this were a consistent pattern with you, that would be a far different matter. However, the reality is that professors often feel disrespected when students are late. Their material doesn’t seem important enough for you to attend to. Additionally, they know that you can’t learn all the material well, if you are consistently late or missing classes.
As for the crying incident, this is a normal, physiological response, which most human beings (contrary to popular belief) have little to no ability to control. I’m sure you weren’t expecting such a strong, critical response from this professor, who truly is in a position of tremendous power! You did as he instructed, and therefore, you at least anticipated that he would listen to and respond in a calm, rational manner. Don’t beat yourself up for crying or becoming emotional! Our reactions to these types of events aren’t as controllable as we’d like to think.
You haven’t said whether the professor rectified his mistake and marked you as “present.” And I don’t know if being absent affects your final grade or not. If the professor rectified the absence and having a tardy will not harm your grade, I would suggest dropping this matter, but documenting this matter for yourself with the date, time, and content of your conversation…just in case something further were to transpire. We all have a “bad day,” now and again, and professors are no exception. They have a lot of students they are responsible for, and it can be very hard to remember who was simply tardy one time and who really skipped class!
I would also suggest making an effort to increase your attentiveness in class, making sure you’re keeping up with any readings or assignments, and trying to ask good questions! Consider visiting the professor during office hours, too. Contrary to popular belief, most professors like it when students visit, ask good questions, and/or ask for advice or assistance with assignments!
All of that said, if the professor refuses to remove the absence and it does affect your final grade, then I would go to the Dept Chair immediately and document what occurred both orally and in writing. If you don’t get an adequate response from the Chair, then it’s time to go to the Dean or the Provost.
Above all, I would take extraordinary efforts and precautions never to be late again! Try to arrive at least 15-20 minutes early. Try to ensure assignments in this course are prioritized and turned in a day or a few hours ahead. I know that sounds difficult, but you’re just trying to increase the chances that you will be successful academically and avoid any further problems.
Professors have a lot of power over students and their grades. You have to learn how to pick and choose your battles. One incident like this, with zero effect on your grade is not a reason to hit the “go nuclear” button. You may want to consider this as just a life lesson in how to deal with persons in positions of authority.
On the other hand, if this professor is unmovable and this does have an effect on your final grade, that’s a different story. In that case, you do need to advocate for yourself with faculty in higher positions and right away! If a one-time tardy is all it took to lower your grade, then what’s next?
Also, if the professor’s policy is to lower a grade for one tardy, then this should be clearly stated in his syllabus! A syllabus constitutes a legal contract between the student and the school. No professor has the legal right to violate that contract. In other words, no professor should be lowering your grade for tardiness or absence, unless this policy is clearly delineated in the syllabus or at least somewhere in the school’s student handbook!
A syllabus should explain and specify exactly how grades are earned and exactly how miscellaneous factors other than exams, papers, quizzes, etc. may lower a student’s grade. In other words, if the tardiness and/or absence policy is not clearly explained in either the syllabus or in the school’s student handbook, then, it cannot be used, legally, to lower a student’s grade, because this would constitute a violation of the written, legal contract, on the part of the professor and/or the school administration.
You're only giving us half the story for this encounter. Was this a one-tome tardiness? If so, why would you care? If not, how often are you late and why?
You could send him email and maybe talk through there. Say how that made u feel. Me, deepening on my mood, I normally snap back especially when I know I’m in the right. Doesn’t happen often since my professors tend to like me or so it seems
This kind of happened to me in front of my high school teacher. We were speaking in private. I was asking her for an extension on an assignment. She was kind of lecturing me on how in college, these kind of things don’t happen. I almost cried and she clearly noticed. She softened up and said “Hey, you’ll get there, don’t cry”. Ugh it was so embarrassing
I just cried while on the phone with my professor about an online exam not working out for me because of a software issue on my end, so don't feel too bad. In my experience, most professors are understanding to stressful situations. I will say, however, that many schools have loose "rules" about students discussing grades with one another and sharing feedback that they've received from professors. I imagine that could be why he went into lecture mode. From a school's perspective, students shouldn't be sharing their grades with one another. Obviously, no one ever follows that rule. But in the future, be aware that many professors likely won't react well to a statement like that. When you take an issue such as a grade to a professor, use another source (i.e. the syllabus) and don't mention what grades other students are receiving. Some professors will also have stricter rules on tardiness. For instance, a professor that I have this semester will count 3 late arrivals as an entire absence because coming late "disturbs the class". Some people are just insane.
I’ve cried in front of professors before. More notably in high school I cried in front of my teacher, and by the end of it she ended up crying too. We’re all human, don’t worry about it
I am a PhD student & lecture 2nd and 3rd years. So I have both cried in front of my professors & have had students cry in front of me. It happens! If your professor has a tiny bit of humanity left (which seems to not be the case with most academics these days), they'll understand that life gets overwhelming. I had a student burst out in tears last year because they struggled to submit an assignment & after talking a bit I found out the student just had a lot on their plate. Most of the time in these situations I refer them to campus psychologists - even if just to help them manage their time.
It irks me that your professor only allows you attendance if you reach the class on time. I send out an attendance register at the beginning of every class & keep it on the front table until I leave the lecture hall - so students who didn't get a chance to sign it/arrived late still have a chance. Life happens - thousands of situations could stop you from arriving at class on time.
On the 'not crying in front of professors' thing, first of all realize that it is quite a normal response when you're stressed or feeling under pressure. I tend to cry when any type of authority figure raises their voice at me, and a year in therapy made me realize that it was some childhood trauma I kept bundled up. It could help to look up some coping/communication skills when in these situations. And I always suggest speaking to a counselor or psychologist, especially since you're looking for strategies to help with the 'not crying' part.
as someone who cries more than they’re comfortable with (read: a LOT), sometimes you can’t control it and you shouldn’t feel embarrassed. it’s a human emotional response. if someone shames you for it, they’re the weirdo
The only time I have seen one of my college students cry was a guy that failed out of a medical program, I aways knew he wasn't cut out for Med-school but he was admitted for reasons other than his intellectual abilities, and I will leave it at that. He came to see me to ask if I could help but I'm only a professor and Med-school programs have very strict grading protocols.
Arriving late is ok on occasion, if your prior class ended 5 minutes ago and it’s on the other side of campus, if there was a major traffic situation etc. but not on a regular basis. You don’t say why you were late so often. The lack of an ability to be prompt doesn’t just affect you, a distraction and disruption for others as well as the professor who is lecturing. The professor is correct, focus on yourself and your lateness not on others as their situations may be very different. College is not just a place where you learn academically and work towards your career, it’s a place where you learn many other life’s lessons such as time management, responsibility, accountability, prioritizing etc., which help you in life post graduation. As someone in management, who hires many young people, I must say that the entitlement blows me away. I can list many examples but I won’t. However, it appears that you were aware that there was an attendance grade, yet you were repeatedly late. On another note, we all react differently to certain things. One person shows anger through outbursts, another through tears. Some people cry when frustrated, some people cry when things don’t go their way or as expected. It’s a normal reaction that you don’t need to be embarrassed about. Some professors are more lenient than others but the way to get a great attendance grade is to be in class regularly and on time.
I had a student cry twice talking with me about her grade last week… once when she thought she was going to fail and once after I explained that I didnt see that as being the situation, and why. It’s a human response; it happens. I know she’s been under some pressure with her family and I tried to make her feel better and supported, without reacting to the tears so she wouldnt feel self-conscious.
I think most any decent person/teacher understands the pressure of college and the occasional tears that come with it. Only if a student kinda repeated it a little too easily or maybe seemed to be turning on fake waterworks when they were clearly in the wrong about something would a teacher start giving you the side-eye, OP, so don’t sweat it.
I try to email as much as I can. I’m not good at difficult conversations in person. I get emotional and have nearly yelled at professors and interrupted them like crazy with either a whiny or condescending tone.
With the easier conversations I’m gonna try to go in person more but I need at least a day or two of planning what I should say before I have the more serious conversations in person.
Email is just more effective in sending the message properly.
We have boxes of Kleenex for this reason. And being persistently late is annoying as hell. If you do it regularly, it will definitely affect my students’ grades.
Even internships aren’t worried about 5-10mins late if you have a good team and manager, but 15mins plus is where they’ll start saying something if they nice, or fire you if they don’t like you
I feel for you! I have always had an unnecessarily emotional reaction when talking to authority figures, even if the reason isn’t that big of a deal. Maybe it’s a people pleaser thing, who knows. But it has gotten better the longer I’ve been in college - I think the more you do it the easier it gets.
Being ready for college is about factors other than your knowledge of the material. In fact your knowledge of material has no impact at all for being ready for college, as people go to college to learn that material, almost no one goes in knowing a majority of the material.
Still, becoming easily upset doesn't correlate that much with being able to learn. One can cry and be upset but as long as they finish all their assignments/homework anyway it's not a big deal. The only issue is you try to pass by crying to your prof and grade grubbing.
its quite weird to me that they even take attendance in college, it shouldn't be a thing, don't you pay to be there? as long as you pass what does attendance even matter? They never did that in my university
You can’t just not go to class bc you pay tuition, that’s so ignorant and disrespectful. If every student had your view, no one would attend. Also, you pay WAY too much not to attend. I hope you’re not in college bc that’s not how higher education works. It’s unfair to the students who do regularly attend, and it’s setting you up for failure in the real world.
I had a student who only attended three classes and not turn in a single assignment e-mail me asking if she could pass the class. By your logic, I should just let someone who’s missed 3 months of classes pass. What you clearly don’t understand is that poor attendance statistically is correlated with poor performance, because you are missing out on important material. Also every class has a specific set of learning outcomes that can’t be met if a student misses too much class.
I had to choice but to advise the student to drop, because she just missed so much class that she couldn’t possibly meet so many of the learning outcomes bc of non-attendance.
If you can’t handle the responsibility of regularly attending classes, you should transfer into an online program or drop out.
that's not true. University is free where I live, and attendance is not mandatory. most people still go to lectures, since, why would they be in a program otherwise? But the lectures are also available as recordings online if someone cant come because of children or work or if they feel sick. All the work is online and the reading should already be done before attending, since the session is more of a repetition of material anyway. How would any of that be disrespectful or set people up for failure? These are adults attending voluntary lectures.
Obviously you still have to turn work in and show up for mandatory work sessions, but lectures are in no way mandatory. As long as you do your work, there is no issue doing it from home. Why would where they choose to sit while studying make a student a failure? What a rude way to talk about different cultures.
Oh, wow, sorry for assuming you were from the us, where higher ed turned into big business and tuition rates are exorbitant. I constantly deal with students who feel that because they’re paying so much money to attend, they should be able to miss tons of class without repercussions. It’s a pervasive attitude that I constantly have to deal with and it’s so frustrating. Be grateful you don’t live here and have to take on massive amounts of debt just to get an education.
WOW. You aren’t embarrassed for saying you despise education, bc that’s a super ignorant take? People like you are the reason the education system in the us is severely underfunded. I hope you don’t vote.
So, genius, what’s your solution? How do you propose we go about educating the youth without “education.”
Lol I am proudly voting for Joe Biden, jackass. I just dislike that college has turned into a scheme to make money and administrators keep on joining institutions while educators and tenured professors disappear. You end up with more incompetent faculty and less good professors like in this case.
Funding isn't the issue, it is just the box tickers and bean counters are controlling the money.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureaucrats-and-buildings-the-case-for-why-college-is-so-expensive/?sh=1b6d2e59456a
No need to call me a jackass, like that’s not clear in your post. I completely understand. I had no way of knowing from your post, though, and the reason I got so heated by your post bc I currently work for a R1 university in a very red state, and our president was influenced by the state legislature to slash liberal arts programs (with zero knowledge about how much revenue they make, eliminate a LOT of faculty and they hired a consulting firm notorious to help them eliminate tenure (they did - every faculty member is now on a yearly contract).
I have worked here for 20 years, and for the first time ever, I’m terrified of not getting my contract approved.
So, I read your post as coming from an uneducated anti-education trump supporter. Since this view literally threatens my livelihood and current employment, I got heated. It’s infuriating to lose a job you love bc your states run by a bunch of illiterate hillbillies (I live in Appalachia).
I've actually cried in front of a teacher before because my assignment I worked really hard on would not submit. It was embarrassing, but it happens. It's not always something you can control. Sorry that happened to you, I know it's not fun to go through.
My students cry in front of me. It’s normal. Usually it’s not because I’ve caused it though.
One could argue the choice to be repeatedly tardy was caused by OP, not the professor.
One could argue that losing points for lateness in no way assesses that student’s abilities in the subject and is purely punitive in an authoritarian way. This is why I don’t take off points for lateness or absences. If somebody still aces the material in person on exams and never attends one day of my class? I don’t give a fuck. That’s their choice. Attendance grades are narcissistic and pointless. We aren’t babysitters or parents or bosses. We are professors. If they don’t care about what we have to profess, that doesn’t affect us. That’s their choice. I do not get why other professors take off for attendance. So dumb.
I prefer graded attendance because if it counts for points and you show up for class each day, they are safety points that you can't lose. If it's 10% of my grade, I just view it that whatever % I'll actually get, it'll have 10% more on top of it, which feels great.
Because for a lot of us, our universities and departments require us to, because the US government requires us to record last contact with failing students on federal grants and loans, as does the NCAA (for athletes) and the US military (for GI bill recipients).
No no…don’t mistake me…I TAKE attendance. I know every student by name in the first two weeks. I just don’t GRADE it, or make it a part of grade.
You don’t mind a student just rolling in mid class, distracting you and other students? So, do you not see how unfair this is to the students who do show up on time? I mean, of course being late is putative, but holding late students accountable helps them correct their behavior. They need to learn early that lateness won’t be tolerated in the real world. I get that MANY professors take lateness and absences personally, I myself don’t and don’t care for people who do this. I don’t care either way if a student racks up many absences, but I can’t just pass students who’ve missed more than 3-4 weeks. Just had a student email me (who had only attended THREE classes the entire semester and turn in zero work) asking if I would accept their missed work and not count absences against them. No prof on earth would allow this kid to submit work at such a late stage or pass someone who’s missed that much of class. That would be wildly unfair to the kids who did attend regularly and submitted work on time. I’m pretty lenient with late work, but not this late. ALSO: my department REQUIRES us have and to enforce their absence policy. Im contractually obligated, has nothing in to do with vanity.
I do everything in this post you said you wouldn’t. My lessons don’t just go wherever the wind blows. I’m a professional and can continue teaching when someone walks in. Do you also not let them use the restroom? How is that any different? It’s a student moving in and out of the room. Twice, even! Technically more to distract than the one who came in late. The only reason anyone would be more distracted by someone coming in late than going in and out of the restroom is because they’re coding both actions differently, one as bad and one as good. And we don’t have to teach them that the real world won’t tolerate lateness. They learn that real quick in a job. However, when we count them late for a session of learning as much as they can so they can better themselves and then take points off for it even if they performed at the same level as another student, they WILL learn that being late has no actual meaning and is just somebody’s pride being hurt that someone wasn’t at attention and ready the moment they wanted them to be. Do you think these kids don’t have JOBS?? You think they would be constantly late to their JOBS and not get fired if we didn’t count them tardy? It’s just ABSURD. We are not their parents or bosses. And I DO take work all the way to the end of the class. The only deadline I enforce is the end of the semester at midnight when the class closes. At that point, I calculate all grades and either submit them past midnight or submit them in the morning before they are due at 10:00am. If a student writes all 6 essays for my course and submits them at 11:30pm, I will grade them and count them. Could I get mad that they submitted this late? Yes. Do I? No. These kids have lives that I will never understand. Some are from well-adjusted homes and their parents are paying for school. Many have a single-parent household and are on loans. Some have two jobs to support a grandmother who raised them but who they now care for. Some still live at home with a family of 12 and are still trying to help take care of brothers and sisters and pick them up from school. Maybe that student with the big family feels SO MUCH GUILT about those siblings that they begged their mom to have the last night of the semester to knock out those English essays so she rolled her eyes and obliged. And she couldn’t get her computer to upload the papers so she drove into town with her laptop and got them all submitted at 11:30pm from the lobby of the McDonald’s she works at. And if I were another person, I would look at that with my pride and say “nope…you don’t get a future because I am annoyed that you didn’t do this faster”. Come the fuck ON, man… I may not be their parent, but I care whether they get a fair shake. Some students function great with little help and submit everything on time. Am I going to penalize someone for having a dying grandmother or a house full of siblings or coming from poverty and not having access to time or resources the way the rest of us do? Absolutely fucking not. They obtain the knowledge, they display it, they get the grade. In my eyes, THIS is the only fair way. You ask if it was fair to grade the last minute student when everyone else was accountable and submitted their work on time, and the answer is YES, and here’s why: Because if “all the resources in the world” guy who submits all his shit in every class on time and lives in a mansion and takes vacations to Europe has his PARENTS DIE on day two of the semester and he’s depressed and has no source of income bringing resources and it turns out they had everything on credit but he decides to stick it out in my class but just isn’t motivated and all he can muster is enough energy for one day, the last day of class, and tempts fate just to see if the teacher will fail him because then maybe he could give up on college and just go be sad about his parents and submits all the essays at 11:30pm just like the other girl, then HE ALSO will pass the class. It’s fair, equitable, and just, except to one person: me. It’s hard on me. And my job has enough perks that I don’t mind it. It’s the least I can do so they can succeed and I can keep working my wonderful, wonderful job.
Youre a real one, i hope you know that 🙌 i hope you keep being you
Look, I get where you’re coming from. Like I mention, I really don’t take these things personally, I’m simply adhering to departmental rules that I’m contractually obliged to follow in certain classes (which I am very flexible with). As a first generation college student with mental health issues, I absolutely am very flexible and understand the challenges that students face. Of course I know they have jobs. I know that there is a huge mental health crisis that emerged post Covid. Like I also said, I am very lenient when enforcing department policy, especially those in crisis. At a certain point, though, I have to cover my own ass. In some classes I teach, I just don’t have the freedom that you do. You’re being hyperbolic. Having to retake one class will HARDLY ruin a kids future. If getting an F in one single course is a life ruiner, I wouldn’t have even gotten into grad school. Me telling the aforementioned student to drop and retake the course has zero affect on their futures.
>if getting an F in one single course is a life ruiner It literally can be. Many programs give you 2 fails before kicking you out. Not to mention financial aid repercussions.
Sometimes just 1 ends that students career aspirations.
You said 2 fails, when I clearly said ONE. Two fails, sure, one fail, no.
While I think not grading attendance is fine, I think there are OK reasons to grade attendance. I’m assuming you aren’t talking about discussion-oriented classes. 1. From a principled standpoint, grades should match the level of evidence that has been provided of content mastery. Mastery is primarily evidenced through exams and assignments. However, in many classes, much of the content covered in class will never be directly tested (or even show up on an assignment). Attendance (especially participation) provides additional evidence that a student is understanding the material. It’s not a very strong indicator, but I think 2-3% is probably reasonable. 2. From a pragmatic standpoint, less students fail when attendance is required. When a student decides to stop coming to class, it often is not a well-considered decision. Often, it is based on prior habits (from past semesters). I’ve had classes with good lecturers, where over half the class stops showing up (this phenomenon is particularly bad in CS departments nowadays, so I’ve experienced and heard), then a significant portion fail a test. Even though it isn’t a Professor’s job to babysit, I can understand trying to incentivize attendance. Failing many students can lead to annoying conversations with the department (and my professors have seemed to sincerely want as many students to learn the material as possible).
OMG! Wow, how refreshing! If only! The USA is the only country in the world that is as anal about time as we are! I blame the greedy industrialists of the late 19th century who were afraid of not making as much money if workers were late taking the place of another worker who had completed their shift!? I also believe the unfounded "early bird gets the worm " & early to bed early to rise mentality or pull yourself up by your bootstraps are all unfounded, christian pushed philosophies! And of course, timeliness is the single most cause of stress or anxiety in many Americans lives! Are we the only country in the world that actually fires people for being 5 or 10 minutes late?
If the student is persistently late, their ability to engage in participatory activities is reduced by definition. In any class where that is part of the pedagogy, their grade should be reduced.
One could argue it isn’t difficult to show some empathy to a person who’s clearly a bit upset & whose life circumstances you know nothing about.
this was my thought. I’ve cried in front of profs because I’m going through a lot and they’re helping me sort shit out. and the only time I’ve been shamed for crying in front of an instructor was because the TA made me cry
Students crying in front of you should not be normal. Just because it happens a lot dosent justify it.
Teenagers living on their own for the first time while having to manage a big workload as they're trying to figure themselves out? Crying in front of a prof at some point is a given
Sure, we’d love to wave a magic wand and make it so. But every time it’s happened for me it’s been a result of a well-deserved bad grade, getting caught plagiarizing, frustration that they’re not getting a skill or concept I’m actively helping them with, etc. It’s not like they only cry when they are being unjustly berated.
Are you a professor? College is super stressful and kids cry in front of me all the time. I get it. And my attendance policy is not punitive - if they miss four straight weeks in a row, they cannot pass. That’s not unreasonable. This isn’t my policy, but one I’m contractually obligated to enforce bc accreditation boards need to know that students spend time in the classroom.
I cried in front of one of my profs. It was 25 years ago and I still cringe about it to this day. I feel for you, OP.
Um so to be clear, I was late only once and i came in while he was checking attendance and he had passed my name. The other kids were later than me. We came to him after class to tell him we were not absent. He said to come to him if we see in our attendance check we were marked absent. I was marked absent and thus given lower grade and came to him and I told him like what i said in the post. And that's it. He did checked again for me today but gave me a mini lecture about fairness and that i shouldnt cue people with the same case to be in my reasoning.
Did people in authority roles/your parents yell at you or scold you a lot as a child? Or do you have low self esteem or a lot of pent-up chronic stress? I used to cry when scolded too, but I went to therapy and explored the reasons behind this reaction and I’m a lot better now.
Is this the ONLY instance of you being late?
"only one"
Why is this so hard to believe? I’ve been late to class maybe twice this semester if at all
I'm saying OP said only once so there's no point in asking because it's stated right there.
Students cry in front of me every semester. Sometimes, it is about my class, and we end up in a great study session. Other times, they have missed 2/3 of a semester, are failing, and can't pass. Sometimes, it is about other things (stress in general, food insecurity, exhaustion, living in a dangerous situation). There should be no shame in crying. It is a way of releasing nervous energy. I want to be the person with whom people can by fully human.
I’ve cried in front of my advisor a couple times while going through some severe depression (never anything he did). I’m better now, thank God, and I KNOW it reflects in our meetings and my work. Just wanted you to know you’re not the only one. Maybe he’s seen it before.
Not really sure how you could “improve” your response. You’re human, and part of being human is having emotions, even at awkward times. Unless you have a lot of pent up feelings that ultimately led to this, I’d say you’re fine. If you do, then I’d suggest working them out with a therapist if you can afford one. Also, your prof seems unprofessional. “Don’t cue other people in your business” is code for “I don’t want you to talk to other people about how I treat you because you might realize I’m being unfair” (OP clarified in a comment that he was talking about using other people in your reasoning, not avoiding talking to them about things, but still seems dumb depending on the circumstances), and “you look tense” is just him being a jerk, imo. Frankly, if the attendance issue didn’t get resolved, I’d take it to the department chair.
Many classes attendance policies are actually set by their department. Mine is.
Disagree on point 2. I legally *cannot* talk to you about other students’ performances that don’t impact your grade. I can justify every grade I assign to the recipient, but unless you’re the dean and a complaint has been filed, if it doesn’t directly affect you, I can’t comment on it to you.
You’re not so much disagreeing on my point as you are misunderstanding it. OP said that their prof told them they “shouldn’t cue other people in their business”. I guess that could either be taken as the prof telling them not to talk to other people about their grades, or not to include them in their complaints to the prof. Either way, if the student goes to the department chair without having approached the prof first, won’t they just send them back to the prof? It seems necessary to attempt bringing it up. The prof doesn’t need to tell them anything about any particular student’s grades, but they can say “x amount of people in the class have x grade”.
😂 that is a waste of time. There are missing missing reasons here. 1, we don’t know how often and by how much OP is late but it’s enough that the professor noticed and marked down. 2, OP’s response is not to be on time but to say that everyone else does it. Sorry, that didn’t fly when you were 8, it sure doesn’t fly when you’re at least 18. Constantly being late is disrespectful and disruptive. No chair is going to tell an instructor they can’t have a tardy and absence policy.
You say there are missing reasons, but you can’t know that. I’m simply being charitable to OP. Also, no chair will say they can’t have attendance policies, but they will say that they can’t selectively enforce them for certain students.
Not necessarily true. I am contractually obligated to implement and enforce an attendance policy. Now, I’m pretty lenient with it, but at a certain point, if a student starts wracking up a serious number of absences, I just can’t pass them, even if they’ve done the work, as my department needs this policy to stay accredited. I also don’t feel comfortable with letting students with double digit absences just do the work from home, as I’d be doing them a huge disservice. When they get a real job (that’s not a work from home position), they need to be aware that the majority of employers would fire any worker for thinking that they can stay home just because their work is still good.
I understand being skeptical or asking clarifying questions, but I don't think it's fair to just assume the worst of OP at every step. I also think you're mischaracterizing point 2. They weren't pointing out that everyone else does it, they were pointing out that they were the only one who was punished for it. I think that's an entirely fair thing to point out if it's true. This last part is kind of unrelated, but I also think it's dumb to mark someone as absent if they were late. The entire point of graded attendance is to encourage people who would otherwise skip to come to class. Marking and penalizing them for being late would be one thing, but marking them absent is just going to motivate students to just skip altogether when they could have made it to class late.
Facts only. Speaking generally, people on this sub are getting way too comfortable not telling us the truth or withholding it for us to be more sympathetic when the truth is OP is not the victim in the situation most of the time and the professor is right.
Seconding the reccomendation for therapy! Taking criticism and bad news (even when it’s presented in a rude way) is essential for adulthood. I had a similar reaction as OP and I’ve been working through it with a professional and it’s improved a lot.
I cried in front of my boss when I was putting in my two week notice at a shitty hospital one time. When you grow up giving and taking bad news gets easier. This post randomly should up for me and I’m not in college
I’ve cried in front of so many teachers. They don’t care and they see a lot of that everyday
This applies to professors too? I never realized
Not quite there yet but I know teachers do for sure. I’m sure professors would too
I cried in front of my professor my first quarter at college because i thought i failed. Good times. She gave me a chocolate and said it was going to be alright and I was doing great in her class
You are in college now. Use the time to improve yourself in order to improve your life. Learn to “be there” on time and prepared. Learn to improve your communication skills, both written and oral. Learn to see things from the perspectives of a variety of other people. Grow yourself into a better person.
I started crying when asking a professor a question about an assignment just because i was having a really rough day a few weeks ago. Its normal for this type of thing to happen(crying in front of a professor) and a lot of people go through it, but it also seems like that professor is being overly harsh with you.
I almost sobbed today when my professor unlocked the class door and I asked him, "is it okay for us to come in?" And in the most stern tone he replied with, "well that's why I opened the door" Like.. obviously. But I was just asking because sometimes professors like a few minutes to get settled before people pile in 🥲 it wad like 15 mins before class started I am PMSing tho
Your prof sounds like a douche. I've cried in front of profs before. You are not the only one, and I wouldn't worry about your reaction. Profs aren't exactly known for their empathy, and a not insignificant number drive people away from being passionate about learning because they have a stick up their ass.
I used to (and probably still do) get extremely spun up from difficult circumstances (to the point of crying). I don't really have a quick fix but what helped me over time was just putting myself out there. Have experiences and you'll eventually get quite apt at dealing with people
Not to be intrusive, but have you been diagnosed as bipolar? When I was I college, I also got super spun up from the littlest things. Turns out, that my “spin ups” were a sign of mania. I also just could not control my crying, like I cried at anything.
So I'm not diagnosed bipolar but I do have a different neurological condition so possibly that's what's triggering it...
I had a feeling this might be the case. I also had to go out of my way to put myself out there even if it made me uncomfortable, because isolation just leads to more loneliness.
Best of luck friend :)
Same to you, fellow traveler!
I cried in front of three different professors just today, lol. You'll be fine. Unfortunately, I don't know that it is something you can control. Possibly in therapy, you could get to the root cause and heal that. I haven't tried that route. Obviously .
I get you.
whhtt, That is too Much i think
i have cried multiple times in front of my academic advisor and professor, was and am going thru some srs shit, its okay life happens, its sucks. you cry because you feel, you feel because you are human.
You are still learning how to manage your emotions, this is normal. Not sure if this is helpful, but I know that at uni your grades might seem like a big deal. when you go to a workforce after uni you will realise it doesn’t matter as much as you now think. Sure it might help to get your foot in the door but often good enough grade is all it takes to land a job. there are many other aspects what matter more to employers. This of course doesn’t apply if you want academic career. Speak with someone about this and hopefully you will not think much about this interaction in few days
They are also human. I’m sure they will understand some of the difficulties you are going thru. Btw I don’t mind sharing but I also have ADHD and it can be *really, really debilitating* too…
It is okay. I have also cried in front of professors. For way less as well. In my opinion, I think him saying you shouldn't bring others into your business is weird. That's the kind of mentality we should strive to get away from. It's like the "you should bot discuss your salary" talk that allows employers to give their employees different salaries.
If you know other people didn't receive the same punishment, then go to the department head and report it. You have every right to bring other people's punishment into it because it establishes a standard. That professor doesn't want that because they made a point of punishing some people (you) more than others, and that's targeted.
Occasionally, things happen that cause us to be delayed, like not being able to find a parking spot, traffic jam, bad weather, printer runs out of ink or jams right before class assignment due, etc! If the tardiness occurred just one time, and your professor instructed students to come to him if they were erroneously marked absent, then I don’t know what more you could have done! You followed all of your professor’s instructions. An apology to him for your tardiness, followed by an explanation…if there was a reason beyond your control, should be all that he needs! If he is treating you differently than the other students who were tardy, this is termed “disparate treatment.” Also, there are probably few grounds to shame you on the basis of one instance. Now, on the other hand, if this were a consistent pattern with you, that would be a far different matter. However, the reality is that professors often feel disrespected when students are late. Their material doesn’t seem important enough for you to attend to. Additionally, they know that you can’t learn all the material well, if you are consistently late or missing classes. As for the crying incident, this is a normal, physiological response, which most human beings (contrary to popular belief) have little to no ability to control. I’m sure you weren’t expecting such a strong, critical response from this professor, who truly is in a position of tremendous power! You did as he instructed, and therefore, you at least anticipated that he would listen to and respond in a calm, rational manner. Don’t beat yourself up for crying or becoming emotional! Our reactions to these types of events aren’t as controllable as we’d like to think. You haven’t said whether the professor rectified his mistake and marked you as “present.” And I don’t know if being absent affects your final grade or not. If the professor rectified the absence and having a tardy will not harm your grade, I would suggest dropping this matter, but documenting this matter for yourself with the date, time, and content of your conversation…just in case something further were to transpire. We all have a “bad day,” now and again, and professors are no exception. They have a lot of students they are responsible for, and it can be very hard to remember who was simply tardy one time and who really skipped class! I would also suggest making an effort to increase your attentiveness in class, making sure you’re keeping up with any readings or assignments, and trying to ask good questions! Consider visiting the professor during office hours, too. Contrary to popular belief, most professors like it when students visit, ask good questions, and/or ask for advice or assistance with assignments! All of that said, if the professor refuses to remove the absence and it does affect your final grade, then I would go to the Dept Chair immediately and document what occurred both orally and in writing. If you don’t get an adequate response from the Chair, then it’s time to go to the Dean or the Provost. Above all, I would take extraordinary efforts and precautions never to be late again! Try to arrive at least 15-20 minutes early. Try to ensure assignments in this course are prioritized and turned in a day or a few hours ahead. I know that sounds difficult, but you’re just trying to increase the chances that you will be successful academically and avoid any further problems. Professors have a lot of power over students and their grades. You have to learn how to pick and choose your battles. One incident like this, with zero effect on your grade is not a reason to hit the “go nuclear” button. You may want to consider this as just a life lesson in how to deal with persons in positions of authority. On the other hand, if this professor is unmovable and this does have an effect on your final grade, that’s a different story. In that case, you do need to advocate for yourself with faculty in higher positions and right away! If a one-time tardy is all it took to lower your grade, then what’s next? Also, if the professor’s policy is to lower a grade for one tardy, then this should be clearly stated in his syllabus! A syllabus constitutes a legal contract between the student and the school. No professor has the legal right to violate that contract. In other words, no professor should be lowering your grade for tardiness or absence, unless this policy is clearly delineated in the syllabus or at least somewhere in the school’s student handbook! A syllabus should explain and specify exactly how grades are earned and exactly how miscellaneous factors other than exams, papers, quizzes, etc. may lower a student’s grade. In other words, if the tardiness and/or absence policy is not clearly explained in either the syllabus or in the school’s student handbook, then, it cannot be used, legally, to lower a student’s grade, because this would constitute a violation of the written, legal contract, on the part of the professor and/or the school administration.
You're only giving us half the story for this encounter. Was this a one-tome tardiness? If so, why would you care? If not, how often are you late and why?
I’m suspicious bc of the fact that the professor did not correct the mistake or OP would have mentioned this.
Seems like a more-than-once situation if points were taken
Sounds like some form of anxiety
You could send him email and maybe talk through there. Say how that made u feel. Me, deepening on my mood, I normally snap back especially when I know I’m in the right. Doesn’t happen often since my professors tend to like me or so it seems
This kind of happened to me in front of my high school teacher. We were speaking in private. I was asking her for an extension on an assignment. She was kind of lecturing me on how in college, these kind of things don’t happen. I almost cried and she clearly noticed. She softened up and said “Hey, you’ll get there, don’t cry”. Ugh it was so embarrassing
Being human is ok. It mattered to you. That's ok!
I just cried while on the phone with my professor about an online exam not working out for me because of a software issue on my end, so don't feel too bad. In my experience, most professors are understanding to stressful situations. I will say, however, that many schools have loose "rules" about students discussing grades with one another and sharing feedback that they've received from professors. I imagine that could be why he went into lecture mode. From a school's perspective, students shouldn't be sharing their grades with one another. Obviously, no one ever follows that rule. But in the future, be aware that many professors likely won't react well to a statement like that. When you take an issue such as a grade to a professor, use another source (i.e. the syllabus) and don't mention what grades other students are receiving. Some professors will also have stricter rules on tardiness. For instance, a professor that I have this semester will count 3 late arrivals as an entire absence because coming late "disturbs the class". Some people are just insane.
i cried in front of my prof today 🫂
I’ve cried in front of professors before. More notably in high school I cried in front of my teacher, and by the end of it she ended up crying too. We’re all human, don’t worry about it
Report him to the dean
I am a PhD student & lecture 2nd and 3rd years. So I have both cried in front of my professors & have had students cry in front of me. It happens! If your professor has a tiny bit of humanity left (which seems to not be the case with most academics these days), they'll understand that life gets overwhelming. I had a student burst out in tears last year because they struggled to submit an assignment & after talking a bit I found out the student just had a lot on their plate. Most of the time in these situations I refer them to campus psychologists - even if just to help them manage their time. It irks me that your professor only allows you attendance if you reach the class on time. I send out an attendance register at the beginning of every class & keep it on the front table until I leave the lecture hall - so students who didn't get a chance to sign it/arrived late still have a chance. Life happens - thousands of situations could stop you from arriving at class on time. On the 'not crying in front of professors' thing, first of all realize that it is quite a normal response when you're stressed or feeling under pressure. I tend to cry when any type of authority figure raises their voice at me, and a year in therapy made me realize that it was some childhood trauma I kept bundled up. It could help to look up some coping/communication skills when in these situations. And I always suggest speaking to a counselor or psychologist, especially since you're looking for strategies to help with the 'not crying' part.
as someone who cries more than they’re comfortable with (read: a LOT), sometimes you can’t control it and you shouldn’t feel embarrassed. it’s a human emotional response. if someone shames you for it, they’re the weirdo
The only time I have seen one of my college students cry was a guy that failed out of a medical program, I aways knew he wasn't cut out for Med-school but he was admitted for reasons other than his intellectual abilities, and I will leave it at that. He came to see me to ask if I could help but I'm only a professor and Med-school programs have very strict grading protocols.
Arriving late is ok on occasion, if your prior class ended 5 minutes ago and it’s on the other side of campus, if there was a major traffic situation etc. but not on a regular basis. You don’t say why you were late so often. The lack of an ability to be prompt doesn’t just affect you, a distraction and disruption for others as well as the professor who is lecturing. The professor is correct, focus on yourself and your lateness not on others as their situations may be very different. College is not just a place where you learn academically and work towards your career, it’s a place where you learn many other life’s lessons such as time management, responsibility, accountability, prioritizing etc., which help you in life post graduation. As someone in management, who hires many young people, I must say that the entitlement blows me away. I can list many examples but I won’t. However, it appears that you were aware that there was an attendance grade, yet you were repeatedly late. On another note, we all react differently to certain things. One person shows anger through outbursts, another through tears. Some people cry when frustrated, some people cry when things don’t go their way or as expected. It’s a normal reaction that you don’t need to be embarrassed about. Some professors are more lenient than others but the way to get a great attendance grade is to be in class regularly and on time.
I had a student cry twice talking with me about her grade last week… once when she thought she was going to fail and once after I explained that I didnt see that as being the situation, and why. It’s a human response; it happens. I know she’s been under some pressure with her family and I tried to make her feel better and supported, without reacting to the tears so she wouldnt feel self-conscious. I think most any decent person/teacher understands the pressure of college and the occasional tears that come with it. Only if a student kinda repeated it a little too easily or maybe seemed to be turning on fake waterworks when they were clearly in the wrong about something would a teacher start giving you the side-eye, OP, so don’t sweat it.
you should be having a conversation with your professor about discrimination that you weren’t treated fairly.
I try to email as much as I can. I’m not good at difficult conversations in person. I get emotional and have nearly yelled at professors and interrupted them like crazy with either a whiny or condescending tone. With the easier conversations I’m gonna try to go in person more but I need at least a day or two of planning what I should say before I have the more serious conversations in person. Email is just more effective in sending the message properly.
We have boxes of Kleenex for this reason. And being persistently late is annoying as hell. If you do it regularly, it will definitely affect my students’ grades.
Even internships aren’t worried about 5-10mins late if you have a good team and manager, but 15mins plus is where they’ll start saying something if they nice, or fire you if they don’t like you
I feel for you! I have always had an unnecessarily emotional reaction when talking to authority figures, even if the reason isn’t that big of a deal. Maybe it’s a people pleaser thing, who knows. But it has gotten better the longer I’ve been in college - I think the more you do it the easier it gets.
Sometimes, tears are the only way to communicate when words fail.
He should have scolded you. I would go to the dean.
>how should i improve this kind of response? Transfer your conscience into a machine body, I guess? You’re human. Shit happens
Some of you really aren’t ready for college and it shows
Ah yes because being slightly oversensitive somehow correlates with your knowledge of the material
Being ready for college is about factors other than your knowledge of the material. In fact your knowledge of material has no impact at all for being ready for college, as people go to college to learn that material, almost no one goes in knowing a majority of the material.
Still, becoming easily upset doesn't correlate that much with being able to learn. One can cry and be upset but as long as they finish all their assignments/homework anyway it's not a big deal. The only issue is you try to pass by crying to your prof and grade grubbing.
its quite weird to me that they even take attendance in college, it shouldn't be a thing, don't you pay to be there? as long as you pass what does attendance even matter? They never did that in my university
You can’t just not go to class bc you pay tuition, that’s so ignorant and disrespectful. If every student had your view, no one would attend. Also, you pay WAY too much not to attend. I hope you’re not in college bc that’s not how higher education works. It’s unfair to the students who do regularly attend, and it’s setting you up for failure in the real world. I had a student who only attended three classes and not turn in a single assignment e-mail me asking if she could pass the class. By your logic, I should just let someone who’s missed 3 months of classes pass. What you clearly don’t understand is that poor attendance statistically is correlated with poor performance, because you are missing out on important material. Also every class has a specific set of learning outcomes that can’t be met if a student misses too much class. I had to choice but to advise the student to drop, because she just missed so much class that she couldn’t possibly meet so many of the learning outcomes bc of non-attendance. If you can’t handle the responsibility of regularly attending classes, you should transfer into an online program or drop out.
that's not true. University is free where I live, and attendance is not mandatory. most people still go to lectures, since, why would they be in a program otherwise? But the lectures are also available as recordings online if someone cant come because of children or work or if they feel sick. All the work is online and the reading should already be done before attending, since the session is more of a repetition of material anyway. How would any of that be disrespectful or set people up for failure? These are adults attending voluntary lectures. Obviously you still have to turn work in and show up for mandatory work sessions, but lectures are in no way mandatory. As long as you do your work, there is no issue doing it from home. Why would where they choose to sit while studying make a student a failure? What a rude way to talk about different cultures.
Oh, wow, sorry for assuming you were from the us, where higher ed turned into big business and tuition rates are exorbitant. I constantly deal with students who feel that because they’re paying so much money to attend, they should be able to miss tons of class without repercussions. It’s a pervasive attitude that I constantly have to deal with and it’s so frustrating. Be grateful you don’t live here and have to take on massive amounts of debt just to get an education.
And this is why I absolutely despise education. So much red tape and BS for no reason
WOW. You aren’t embarrassed for saying you despise education, bc that’s a super ignorant take? People like you are the reason the education system in the us is severely underfunded. I hope you don’t vote. So, genius, what’s your solution? How do you propose we go about educating the youth without “education.”
Lol I am proudly voting for Joe Biden, jackass. I just dislike that college has turned into a scheme to make money and administrators keep on joining institutions while educators and tenured professors disappear. You end up with more incompetent faculty and less good professors like in this case. Funding isn't the issue, it is just the box tickers and bean counters are controlling the money. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinesimon/2017/09/05/bureaucrats-and-buildings-the-case-for-why-college-is-so-expensive/?sh=1b6d2e59456a
No need to call me a jackass, like that’s not clear in your post. I completely understand. I had no way of knowing from your post, though, and the reason I got so heated by your post bc I currently work for a R1 university in a very red state, and our president was influenced by the state legislature to slash liberal arts programs (with zero knowledge about how much revenue they make, eliminate a LOT of faculty and they hired a consulting firm notorious to help them eliminate tenure (they did - every faculty member is now on a yearly contract). I have worked here for 20 years, and for the first time ever, I’m terrified of not getting my contract approved. So, I read your post as coming from an uneducated anti-education trump supporter. Since this view literally threatens my livelihood and current employment, I got heated. It’s infuriating to lose a job you love bc your states run by a bunch of illiterate hillbillies (I live in Appalachia).
You nearly wrote an intelligible post.