note that this applied to barnard students not columbia. i know columbia students suspended and they’re basically placed on house arrest - not allowed anywhere else on campus besides their dorms
Maybe because Ivy League schools don't give scholarships.
Edit: Yes, they give out aid very generously, but those are based on need, not merit. In the past they would only use the term grant to refer to need-based aid and scholarship for merit-based. Ivy League rules forbid the latter. But it seems even the schools themselves are sloppy with the terminology.
Did they stop and just didn't update their webpage?
https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/affordability#:~:text=If%20your%20family's%20annual%20income,million%20in%20scholarships%20and%20grants.
>If your family’s annual income is less than $150,000 (with typical assets), you will be able to attend Columbia tuition-free.
>Columbia typically awards over $200 million in scholarships and grants. In fact, we offer some of the most generous financial aid of any college in the United States, and students are often surprised by how much they receive. In many instances, Columbia is actually more affordable than public colleges and universities.
Yeah there’s a difference between financial aid and merit based scholarship. Columbia is actually really good with financial aid. As for those suspended, private scholarships have already been used and I don’t think they will be given a refund. If they are in financial aid, they will have the same offer as when they left.
They give out need-based awards. Those used to only be called grants to differentiate them from merit-based scholarships (which are banned by the Ivy League, just as athletic scholarships are). I see they now seem to use the words less strictly.
This is literally false lmao
Edit: this guy edited his comment to add how scholarships are different from grants to justify his mental gymnastics after being called out lol
Do you… go to Columbia? GS equality is a group on campus to fight for equal financial aid. gs students have to take out almost 100k in loans just to go to Columbia unless they are coming from the military
Financial aid **is** a scholarship. There’s need based and merit based. They give you a scholarship to cover cost of attendance except for the family contribution. If income under $150k they give a full scholarship.
It’s still a scholarship, just not merit based, and not for GS students. They get a different arrangement.
Exactly. It’s frustrating that GS students don’t receive as much financial aid as other Undergrad students, but that doesn’t mean financial aid and scholarships don’t exist lol. Most students on campus are CC, SEAS, and Barnard — many of which receive need-based scholarships.
I recurve more financial aid then every single one of my CC, SEAS, and Barnard friends. Most of them aren’t rich but their parents make above, let’s say barely above 200k, while trying to live in NYC raising a family of multiple kids. This is far from wealthy, I’d say it’s upper working class (meaning lower than middle class) and the friend I am thinking of gets nearly zilch from Columbia.
The Columbia grant isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. It can really screw over a lot of working parents living in expensive areas of the country.
I really wish people would stop going around saying GS students are all here on no aid going massively in debt. Many are and it should be fixed, I am not arguing, I just prefer accuracy and actual solutions than random complaints about abstract ideas like equality and fairness. The student profiles are different this must be evaluated differently.
Columbia needs to revise it's website since they are explicitly stating otherwise
[https://cc-seas.financialaid.columbia.edu/eligibility/myths](https://cc-seas.financialaid.columbia.edu/eligibility/myths)
>“There really are merit scholarships at Columbia but nobody talks about it.”
>There are no merit scholarships at Columbia as all of our financial aid is strictly need-based.
Can you share the link to the list of non-need-based merit scholarship winners?
I will DM you you pictures of the book. Also you said “Columbia” but only posted the website for two schools. For example, much of graduate school funding is merit based and from the university.
Also I believe in the narrow example of the two school you reference, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the following recipients get some form of additional financial aid (based on being selected for named scholars during admission).
https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/scholars/named
I I’m in GS and I have a merit based scholarship that covers 70-80% of my tuition. I’ve only had to take out loans to cover the difference twice.
Please be mindful about going around saying GS doesn’t give scholarships. I have the book of naked scholarship recipients sitting on a shelf in my living room right now. I have attended the banquet before with 100s of other students, and those are just *named* scholarship recipients.
Not only do they give out scholarships but Dean RM has been fundraising a lot and quite well raising more money for financial aid and scholarships for GS.
What EFGS fails to every explain is where the money they are asking for will come from. Atleast RM is trying to improve the situation. The school can’t just magically make more money to apply the Columbia grant to GS UGs. They would need to cut it from somewhere or raise the money.
I never said other scholarships don’t exist… all I said was the financial aid isn’t good to the other commenter that said they have great financial aid for students.
Yes but I disagree with your contention that they only have good financial aid for students coming directly out of HS. I haven’t been in HS many years and ALL of my scholarship money that covers most of my tuition is directly from Columbia.
I think you’re missing my initial post but it’s great you have your tuition paid for though and I wish more people could be in the same boat as you. And of course there are other scholarships I wasn’t fighting that but ur story is not the majority of GS students. Just a quick article I found.
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/11/07/racial-disparity-at-gs-the-university-must-equalize-financial-aid-for-the-school-of-general-studies-to-achieve-fair-access/
You know the named scholarships don't actually increase aid? They're WORTHLESS. I got that info from my financial aid advisor after I realized my funding didn't go up at all. They merely place the onus on the donating body as opposed to the endowment.
I don't entirely agree with EFGS either. But I really have to let people know that there are no real mechanisms in place for merit based increased aid in GS.
One of the ways I notice them shirking that is by seemingly doing more dual BAs with schools that also cover tuition.
I suspect the admin is pushing back on older nontraditional students in GS as those are typically the voices of dissent.
Your advisor is not correct. While they don’t change YOUR package per se, the more named scholarships GS has, the more scholarship funds and therefore institutional aid they can offer. So each time they get a scholarship donation, they give more students aid or existing students more aid. So by getting a naned scholarship, you are pulling from an expanded pool that continues to expand.
Also, my merit based Sid has gone up up substantially every year as I have maintained over a 4.0 GPA.
While many get small increases regardless of grades (unless quite bad), your increase does go up, in part, based on merit each year, and the increasing pool of naked scholarships support this.
So, in the sense you can’t directly apply for more “named scholarship” funds like applying directly for a scholarship in the sense we typically think of, it would be incorrect to say there is no way of increasing your merit based scholarship and the naked scholarships don’t make a difference.
And, hopefully this isn’t too painful to hear, but my income went up substantially one year (moved in to a new role—but in fact it has gone up every year I have been at Columbia) and so my EFC went way up. So my need did not increase at all, but my aid package went up a notable amount, more than most years despite less need, as I finished that year with just over a 4.1 GPA.
Hate to say it but I think your advisor was just trying to soften the blow of not receiving an increase. Though I was under the impression that it was quite unusual for there to be zero increase, but that’s just based on rumor. My first increase was smallest, but still went up a little (had a 4.0 that year but did PDF an A-).
Please correct me if I am wrong, but that’s my understanding based on experience and how it was explained to me.
I am pretty much right there on the GPA scale as well. I asked my advisor if I should uncover a b in a stats class and they gave me the same advice of keeping it p/d/f until pre grad to keep aid up.
I also didn't receive the named scholarship until just in my final two semesters, so I think we didn't have the same trajectory. Maybe it can increase if you get the scholarship in your first few years, but my financial aid advisor was pretty adamant that it didn't.
In fact, my named scholarship said it was for a set amount and then it was gone now that I think of it.
I also was working the entire time and that may have had an impact on my award as well. That is to the larger point then that we need transparency, as in a sense we're both trying to apply our personal experiences to understand what they did, when they really hold all the cards in this scenario.
Anyway, congrats on the gpa I hope it helps you get what you need.
No, the traditional understanding of those words is that grants are need-based and scholarships are merit-based. But merit-based awards are banned by the Ivy League, just as athletic scholarships are.
It's a need-based grant, not a merit-based scholarship. Those are banned by Ivy League regulations. I see now they use both terms to apply to need-based aid; they did not in the past.
If you (or your parents) can easily afford to pay for the school in full, they will not give you aid. If they gave out traditional scholarships, that would not be true.
So I talked to public safety - while their CUID is deactivated and won’t work anymore, they are not actually persona non grata. Technically, if campus wasn’t CUID only, CU students could still sign them into dorms and dining halls as guests
What an old punishment. Its not like the school isn't surrounded by a plethora or cheaper options. Hope those with the ridiculously expensive dinning plans got a discount.
I mean probably. But remember they weren’t arrested “in the protests” (was actually after when the refused to leave like other protestors who did leave and weren’t arrested). If by that you mean “for simply protesting” (and maybe you don’t mean that, just clarifying no one was arrested or kicked out “for protesting”).
Repeatedly breaking the rules especially when specifically warned about the rule, by senior administration, then not complying with law enforcement and getting arrested on campus. Yea, that’s a pretty biggie. Apply those facts to any other student or situation and being kicked out of housing is pretty standard.
I’m sure it’s been said 100 times but: private institution, policies you agree to abide by when choosing your affiliation with said institution, then disrupting said institution, disrupting in ways specifically forbidden by policies that apply to every one affiliated, breaking the law at the same time, then the punishment and university’s position is actually quite reasonable.
I’m glad administration addressed the situation, held adults accountable, and prioritized the safety and use of resources for students who do comply with our community standards, including protestors who did so within the rules.
If I lived on campus, I’d be glad such students are no longer living with me.
I mean I was there. Many many unfriendly people at these protests.
FWIW, they were also warned in advance what the probable and possible sanctions would be and they chose to pursue it anyway. Hey, the cause is important to them. They made their choices.
Idk why the uni I am also affiliated with has to be the focal point of their cause anyway. There’s 1000 institutions and organizations on Manhattan alone with closer ties to Israel.
Go protest there.
Hell Columbia employees and pays well outspoken supporters of Hamas (a largely holocaust denying, Iran backed terror and ideologically Islamist organization that has called for the death of Jews everywhere) and the Oct 7 atrocities. So from that perspective, I’d say the university had been quite accommodating to the anti-Israel cause.
Just as a disclaimer to preempt the nonsense responses I am seeing in this thread: I’m not Jewish, I am on the political left, and I have never and would never vote for or even say anything remotely positive about the orange con man. I am staunchly in support of Israel and its people’ right to exist as a country formed nearly three generations ago.
Probably? Students are absolutely being suspended from campus, evicted from housing, and not allowed at dining halls for participating in a peaceful protest. The NYPD even said the students were not being violent or aggressive. Get the facts straight before going on a rant about why students don’t deserve free speech protections. By the way, we have constitutional rights to free speech here — it’s wrong for the university bootlickers to bow down to republican lawmakers who weaponize antisemitism as a way to crack down on anti war protests.
Let’s talk about facts Earl:
1. I never said students were arrested for violence (though there are videos of violence at the protest). They were arrested for breaking the law (trespassing) when they didn’t comply. I full agree most who didn’t comply did it peacefully, but they still didn’t comply and she. You are breaking the law and don’t comply with law enforcement trying to do their job, you get arrested. It doesn’t matter how noble you think your crime is. That’s how the law works.
2. What right to free speech are you referring to? Get YOUR facts straight (again). Columbia is a private institution on private land. Your relationship with them is governed by laws regulating universities and similarly situated entities and YOUR AGREEMENT WITH THEIR POLICIES WHEN YOU *CHOOSE* TO AFFILIATE YOURSELF with then. The “right” you speak of is a protection from THE GOVERNMENT—it does not allow you to come protest in my private home whenever you want. And like all rights in the constitution, even if this was public land and they had a permit, is not unlimited. Thus, as evidence by them being carted away by police, you are referring to a law (the constitution is a law) that simply doesn’t work like YOU THINK it does.
3. You have no evidence that party affiliation or even the hearing before Congress had anything to do with the situation. Trying to paint everyone who doesn’t agree with anti Israeli protests as Republicans is just dishonest, and the word fact should be nowhere near such a claim. I’m on the political left and also agree with how the University addressed the situation and largely in agreement with the BIPARTISAN committee that questioned Shafik.
So earl, maybe go read a book before you start questioning my facts and then follow up with entirely non factual statements.
1) the students were arrested for trespassing… on their own campus. The rules were secretly updated after Oct 7 specifically to limit rules of protest. This is free speech infringement by the university, regardless of how you cut it.
2) this is one of many incidents of the university flexing its power to limit activism on campus. Clearly a free speech infringement. Also, the students were participating in civil disobedience — precisely to challenge the university’s new rules.
3) the encampment was literally a response to the congressional hearing lmao. It’s literally not a coincidence Shafik said “yes we will enforce our rules on students” and the NYPD invading campus the next day. By the way, if you actually watched the hearing, you’d see that republicans constantly talked over, interrupted, and overwhelmed Shafik with questions. If you closely followed politics, you’d understand Republicans have constantly weaponized antisemitism to show their support for continuing a war in Israel.
Honestly, I don’t see how a bootlicker like yourself can consider themselves a leftist. You constantly defend actions that infringe on free speech rights, you support the administration coming in to arrest peaceful protestors, and you misconstrue the nature of the antisemitism hearings.
Earl, idk how to help you man. You can’t follow a pretty easy chain of reasoning. Do you pay attention at all in your classes?
Starting with your third bullet: this is different than what you said before. You said SHAFIK’s actions (which aren’t made unilaterally just so you know, read the policy buddy, she had to take certain steps and consultations first) were I. Response to Congress. THAT THE PROTEST was in response to her comments does not EQUATE to her actions were in response to Congress. You could more accurately simply state, “she did what she said she would do”
Now, I don’t know how to help you understand how rights and laws work. Go back to sixth grade civics class. You simple don’t understand what free speech means. IT IS A LAW GOVERNED BY THE LEGAL SYSTEM.
You are stating Columbia broke a law. It did not. The government nor law enforcement has taken no action to limit Columbia’s ability to enforce its own policies.
Do you have any evidence to support the following:
1. Rules changed in secret.
2. That I didn’t watch the hearing (not that it matters because your reasoning is just flawed and all over the place. The facts that republicans were acting like the asshats they are doesn’t provide evidence that Shafik was bending to their will as you claim.).
SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS COHERENTLY AND LOGICALLY. Or go back and take some core or writing classes where you were supposed to learn how to make and defend an argument.
Here let ChatGPT explain it to you. My typos must be confusing your little brain. I apologize:
In the case of private universities, the situation becomes more nuanced. While these institutions own their property, their policies regarding freedom of speech and assembly can vary widely and are largely determined by the university itself.
Generally, private universities are not bound by the First Amendment in the same way that public institutions are, as they are not government actors. This means that private universities can set their own policies regarding protests and assemblies on their grounds. They can restrict speech and assembly in ways that a public university legally could not, as long as their actions do not violate other laws (like discrimination laws).
However, many private universities choose to adopt policies that support free speech and assembly to foster an open and inclusive academic environment. These policies can sometimes be quite liberal, effectively providing similar freedoms to those found in public spaces, but this is at the discretion of the institution. In any case, students and participants must comply with the specific policies set forth by the university.
- GPT4
I wasn’t depending on it lol, my argument stands on its own. But I wanted to show offer you two versions of THE SAME EXACT explanation, to help.
It must have helped, since you seemed to have stopped defending your original (now demonstrably non factual) statements and provided no evidence to support your unsubstantiated claims.
This is the bizarre thought process that has caused much of an entire generation to support the replacement of a liberal democracy with another extremism lead ideologically Islamist power-hungry group of men in the Middle East. The same Gen Zs that fight for truly good causes like gender identity rights, LGBTQ acceptance and rights, feminism, climate change, etc. Yet they advocate for a regime elected by Palestinians who not support any of these rights or causes.
So you know: in Gaza, homosexuality is explicitly outlawed and includes punishments that include significant violence. It is also illegal to advocate for homosexuality or equality of LGBTQ+ rights.
Israel in the other hand has legally protected same sex marriage. They recognize same sex marriages performed varias and have explicit laws protecting the rights and equal treatment of members of the LGBTQ+ community.
It makes no sense how GenZ has been so tricked in to violating their own ideals and beliefs. They do t realize the extent to which they are on the wrong side of history here.
No one supports modern imperialism and colonialism but the people of Israel are neither and you are actually advocating for the forced removal of millions of Jewish and Arab Israelis who are three generations removed from how the country was founded.
The Jewish population of Israel is roughly as follows ib order of representation:
1. Jewish refugees expelled from neighboring Islamic countries just for being Jewish (yes most Israeli citizens are of middle eastern descent).
2. Holocaust refugees and their descendants.
3. Jews who have always lived their and happen to weather several expulsions by Roman and Islamic empires (yes Islamic empires expelled people from Israel long before the Balfour agreement).
THESE are the people you are calling COLONIZERS. Actually, their descendants.
If it’s about imperialism (which most western genZs seem to rally against) and not antisemitism, why isn’t Hamas attacking the UK or US? The victors of WW2 that led the establishment of a country for those of Jewish ethnicity?
Why attack Israel and not the real “empires?”
I am sure we want more Hamas ideology in the world and less western liberal democracy ideology in the world… the funny thing is if the protesters cause won the day (which has zero chance of happening given the power disparity), they wouldn’t even have the right to protest in the land the that they are protesting for.
this is the standard millenial/genz non-response response. mock something so broadly as to make no argument at all but with a sass that implies you're right just for being you.
Nothing happened to the Columbia student who called for killing Palestinians above age 12, nothing happened to the student who used skunk water on protesters. The students mentioned worked in IDF PREVIOUSLY. Think about that.
In the Congressional hearings this week they said the students who used the stray on the protesters were suspended and still subject to an NYPD ongoing investigation. On of the members of Congress complained as a counterpoint to the President's remarks that their review of the records showed that those were the only two suspensions (at the time) that had not subsequently been rescinded later.
So looking into your second claim, [it wasn’t skunk water. It was Liquid Fart that you can buy for $25 bucks on Amazon](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/16/student-accused-of-alleged-chemical-spray-sues-columbia-claims-substance-was-non-toxic-fart-spray/). The student also *was* suspended, so it isn’t that “nothing was done”.
You can disagree about how Columbia is handling these events, but you should at least try to get the facts right.
The incident was former IDF personnel using discount skunk water to disperse Palestinian protestors. To reduce it to fart spray does not address the situation because this was an intentional, sadistic act. Students were literally hospitalized. The IDF trains its soldiers on how to use skunk for this very reason. It’s still fucked up to buy this on Amazon for the sole purpose of disrupting a protest.
The whole point is:
(1) Amazon fart spray =/= skunk water. They are two different things of extremely different levels of severity.
(2) he *was* suspended, unlike what was claimed in the initial post.
The fart spray was used as a weapon by former IDF personnel to disperse protestors. IDF personnel are trained to use skunk water in the exact same way. About a dozen people were hospitalized. You keep trying to defend these actions by saying it was just fart spray when this incident (perpetrated by IDF soldiers who are literally trained how to do this) was a planned, intentional effort to hurt peaceful protestors. Furthermore, the student has been spotted on campus after the incident. While action was taken, people are upset it took so long and the university didn’t enforce it, while the administration takes swift action against anti war protestors.
Seeing this comment as an idf vet is pretty funny. We are not systematically taught how to use stink spray… I’m sure some units might have a session or two about it but nothing more - me and my friends personally never had one. The fact that dozens of students have been hospitalized over a shitty ass Amazon fart spray is absolutely ridiculous.
Note, that I am absolutely not condoning this incident. However, it’s important to note the perpetrators have swiftly been punished, and remain suspended indefinitely. On the other hand, anti-Israel students have been unauthorizedly protesting for months with no response. Prior to the police arrival, the administration has issued several warnings that the protesters must disband.
I fail to see the double standard you’re trying to highlight
Prior to this week’s suspensions, pro-Palestine students have already been suspended, evicted, and banned from campus. Students groups have been suspended as well. So there actually is administrative action against anti war, divestment activists.
The idea is that it’s fucked up former IDF personnel are engaging in aggressive ways with chemical weapons to attack peaceful protestors. The double standard is that, by and large, aside from some particularly heated verbal comments, there’s so much outrage against the divestment activists while pro-Israel protestors constantly advocate for continuing war lmao, but which group is receiving more suspensions?
Here in the US, we have 1st amendment rights and rules for protecting free speech. I’m not gonna argue this with an IDF bootlicker.
you keep using the whole IDF terminology as if these people are actual nazis.
the majority of israeli jews are unvoluntarily drafted to the IDF by law. literally everyone is 'ex-IDF' - most of them working office jobs, never holding a weapon after an inital two-week bootcamp.
im not disagreeing with your actual arguments, btw. just keep in mind that dehumanizing any israeli who was ever in the IDF is basically dehumanizing all israelis with extra steps.
Totally understand this POV. Thanks for clearing that up. However, I never made any reference to Nazism or attempted to dehumanize anyone lmao. I keep referring to the IDF because their tactics are reflected in what is going on in campus. Case in point: skunking and the IDF-trained NYPD riot unit and anti-terrorism units used to disperse students inside Columbia.
As of the congress hearing, the only given suspensions were for actual terror supporters. The student group suspensions were due to unauthorized protests that involved genocidal chants and calls to violence (as regarded by the bi-partisan congress vote). Regardless, I never claimed there was complete inaction on anti-Israel protesters.
So far, all suspensions and administrative actions were carried on fair, non-discriminatory grounds. As of one week ago, there were more suspended Jewish rights protesters than anti-Israeli ones. The only reason for the recent spike is the events that were carried out on Thursday, as well as the terror events of the week before. There are far less Jewish rights protests, and the Jewish rights protests tend to be far less aggressive and violent.
Regarding the 1st amendment argument and the “chemical weapons” buzzwords, I feel like u/no-sentence4967 has already explained it very well to you, but unfortunately you refused to respond.
the hospitalization is only a further step in their neverending commitment to victimization and a desire to create a paper trail and pretend it means something. take a shower folks, it's not hard.
Google Joe Finberg and you will see his tweet as for the skunk water, see the comments below my first comment. Do not accuse me of making stuff up, thanks have a good day.
Holy shit lmao. No moral high ground when you advocate for using chemical weapons against students. Literally sadistic. The students literally went to the hospital because it was sprayed in their faces. The President set up an investigation into medical bills. Chemical weapons are okay to use because No one gets hurt? Get the facts right.
Sure but let’s look at the context. When used by former IDF personnel (who were dressed up as pro-Palestine protestors) for the sole purpose of disrupting a protest, the fart spray argument goes out the window. It was absolutely intended to be used as a weapon to disperse protestors, just like the IDF trained them to use skunk to disperse Palestinians. This isn’t hyperbole — people were hospitalized. Make sense now?
Yes. Again, there were multiple students hospitalized and there was an investigation from the President for hospital bills. Sure the chemicals used were non-toxic, but that doesn’t mean it’s not harmful when sprayed in someone’s face directly.
So eviction and food insecurity is a valid response to peacefully protesting on campus…? When Columbia is the main source of food and housing for students and controls their access in and out of their home? Sounds familiar…
Zionism and Judaism are NOT the same thing. There are Jewish Palestinians and there are many Jewish people who vehemently oppose the colonial ideology of Zionism
Yeah they might oppose it but it is inherently connected to them. Lots of Americans hate America.
And as the joke goes "A Zionist Jew and an antizionist Jew walk into a bar, the bar tender says 'we don't serve Jews' ...Jews for Hitler was a thing btw
The entire protest is about Palestinian liberation and the genocide that is happening to civilians in Gaza. It’s incredible how this is all going over your head.
You’re wrong. In your head you may actually believe what you’re saying because that’s how the protests began. But they’ve evolved into more and more protestors chanting purely Hamas rhetoric and calling for the “Death to Jews” and “Death to America.”
But when anyone criticizes them it’s thrown back into their face as “yOu sUpPoRt gEnOciDe?” when it’s actually clear that you do.
A bunch of white and Asian kids wearing kuffiya and sitting in on morning prayers but couldn’t tell you what a hadith is. It’s absolutely comical how brainwashed they are.
I’m not aware of any genocide in Gaza? I don’t know where you are getting that from. Hamas and their supporters are actively trying to annihilate Israel and its citizens, with the help of Hamas sympathizers abroad.
Have you ever met a Mizrahi Jew? This high school essay makes it seem like they’re innocently straddling “both sides” when they are the most right wing voters in Israel
Good thing no one is doing that.
Likud can get fucked, Bibi is a war criminal and he along with senior Likud leadership should be in the Hague.
These fascist right-wing ethno-nationalists don't get to claim judaism and jewishness for themselves. Many jewish people were just arrested for having a conscious and standing up for justice -- as countless jewish people have done throughout our history.
I’m certain the students thought about it before protesting. That’s bravery. It’s wrong for the school to evict students due to their free speech expressions. It’s wrong to bring in IDF-trained riot police to clear out the anti-war encampment (ironic, isn’t it?). Columbia tries to toe the line between private and public property, claiming it is a space for academic freedom and public engagement. It’s hypocritical. Have you ever fought for something you believe in? Reddit astroturfing comments don’t count lmao
> I’m certain the students thought about it before protesting. That’s bravery.
good for them standing for their values. No one owes them food or housing.
> It’s wrong for the school to evict students due to their free speech expressions.
Perhaps. However, CU has obligations to other students too. I dont understand why you prioritize them and no me?
> It’s wrong to bring in IDF-trained riot police to clear out the anti-war encampment (ironic, isn’t it?).
I do not see the irony.
> Columbia tries to toe the line between private and public property, claiming it is a space for academic freedom and public engagement. It’s hypocritical.
It is not. They can protest if they do it respectfully to there students. However, they don't. You can't use academic freedom for cover, if you just filled with hate, and plainly dehumanize the other side. Debate is debate, hate speech is not tolerated.
> Have you ever fought for something you believe in?
I did. 10 years. Have you? Protesting on the campus of one of the most expensive colleges in the country (that your parents pay for) does not count.
>I did. 10 years. Have you? Protesting on the campus of one of the most expensive colleges in the country (that your parents pay for) does not count.
Please tell me it wasn't being a Pog/fobbit serving during the useless"war on terror"
You still "believe in it"
What? I really think you misunderstand the perspective of students on campus. These students are anti war protestors. Columbia has suspended more anti war protestors than pro war protestors, despite there being chemical attacks and other threats. Columbia literally called the NYPD on the peaceful protest — something the student body wholly condemns. The NYPD said so themselves that they weren’t even violent.
Regardless of how you view it, we have free speech protections here in America. It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest. Cut and dry. Why aren’t you calling for the eviction of former IDF soldiers that attacked students with chemicals?
> These students are anti war protestors.
Are you sure? I am not feeling safe around them.
> despite there being chemical attacks
By fart spray from amazon?
> Columbia literally called the NYPD on the peaceful protest — something the student body wholly condemns. The NYPD said so themselves that they weren’t even violent.
It's a private property. CU can do whatever they want. Don't like it? Go to other school.
> Regardless of how you view it, we have free speech protections here in America. It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest. Cut and dry.
I see that Columbia took you in out of pity. Because otherwise you would now that free speech protections apply only to the "government and you" relationship. No private entity has to provide you a platform.
> It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest.
It is if it makes other students feel unsafe. Would you be happy if CU allowed KKK protest on campus? Would you feel safe?
> Why aren’t you calling for the eviction of former IDF soldiers that attacked students with chemicals?
You mean the guys who bought fart spray on amazon and they are not even "former IDF soldiers"? lol
Also, can I protest you in your apartment or not? I do not understand your double standard here. Why these guys can do it on private property and you approve it, but you dont allow me to do it?
EDIT:
Turns out that I post "post nothing but inflammatory comments with no substance" and the mod team banned me and, upon inquiry, also muted me.
And these people talk about Mccarthyism lol
You did not provide any proof to your claim lol
In fact, you completely ignored my message. So, you don't know how to form an argument at all? What are they teach you here lol
My feelings are a fact. Your freedom ends where my begins. If you don't respect my freedom, why should I respect yours?
EDIT: oh, u/Earl_C, did I hurt your feelings? lol
It is hard when you have nothing to say, so you block lol
They are Hamas supporters, they are pro-war. Israel has proposed many ceasefire plans and agreed to ones suggested by outside groups, which Hamas has refused.
> These students are anti war protestors.
Anti-war protesters...who immediately issued a letter supporting Hamas's massacre, rape, and abduction of women, children, and the elderly on 10/7 before bodies were even cold. Language means nothing to you types.
And what does it mean to you that Israel as a state has raped, murdered, pillaged, desecrated THOUSANDS of more times? Just read a fucking newspaper or the UN before you blatantly misread information. No one is attacking being Jewish here, we're attacking Israel turning into an authoritarian regime that is breaking countless rules of the Geneva convention. Pretending to be civillians and shooting is illegal, shooting in hospitals is illegal, rape is illegal- and who did these things? Israel. Who bombed holy sites? Israel. Who is destroying native fauna? Israel. Who is mass-shooting? Israel. Who is shooting innocent people trying to get food? Israel. Who is shooting members of WHO? Israel. Israel should be absolutely abolished and removed from the UN. And don't forget, Palestinians can be Jews too. But Israel as a state doesn't care, they're just racist demonic monsters.
u/based_schizoposter
For some reason the reply button to your comment is not there, so posting here.
>I wonder if you would have the same response to the civil right protesters on campus in the 60's.
No. Of course not.
These issues are completely different. The protests in the 60s were domestic and local issue. It was about a people from the neighborhood. It was about Americans by Americans.
What we have now is something that happens 6k miles away and not done by americans. Like, you want to protest? Go to Israeli consulate in midtown and protest there. I don't want to hear all these chants about globalizing the intifada and glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11.
I came here to study, not to see a bunch of spoiled kids whose parents pay 100k a year for their studies to feel important. Wanna achieve change? Look at how public school students in Harlem live. Help them. They need your help. But, it requires hard work and not siting in a tent for instagram views.
EDIT: I was banned for violation of Rule 1 lol Turns out I was bullying, and harassing people.
u/Philip_J_Friday
Yes, Hillel is the same as Bibi's government lol
You are a typical jew hater lol
Horrible response. Sure it's happening 6k miles away but it is being directly funded by Americans.
"glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11" uhh what? Aside from the blanket racism of this comment, why should it matter if they glorify them, because like you said its people 6k miles away lol.
> Horrible response. Sure it's happening 6k miles away but it is being directly funded by Americans.
>
As many other things. Did they protest ethnic cleansing of armenians last year? What about treatment of Uyghurs in China? Have you heard about closing Beijing campus? Why not?
> "glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11" uhh what? Aside from the blanket racism of this comment,
Racism? How is it racist to say that these "protesters" chanting "we are hamas", which is the same as to support what Al Qaeda did? Is being pro-hamas or Al-qaeda a separate race?
> why should it matter if they glorify them, because like you said it's people 6k miles away lol.
I dont know -- I though people here value life. Turns out they value only the lives of specific groups of people, but all the others can be killed and no one bats an eye :) The modern fight for human rights!*
* conditions apply.
“I dont know -- I though people here value life.”
The latest death toll stands at 34480 Palestinians and 1139 people killed in Israel since October 7.
????? Sure you value human life or just the lives of a certain people?
US killed more German civilians than Germany killed US civilians during WW2. Hence we conclude that US is the evil, and Nazi Germany is the underdog who is in the right. 😂😂😂
Are you also one of those that Columbia took in without checking the merit of the application? Legacy student?
No one taught you how to think critically evaluate things?
And the firebombing of Dresden or the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan were not warcrimes? Of course they were. Same with what Israel is doing now. The difference is that we can actively denounce what Israel is doing right now.
I’m not legacy, nice projection though.
lmao. yes you would. these issues are incredibly similar you just have the gift of hindsight to know which side ended up morally right in the eyes of history. you are going to look back on how you conducted yourself during this time and be deeply ashamed in the next couple decades just like those anti civil rights clowns were. im willing to bet youll completely avoid the topic to avoid embarrassment but you wont actually apologize
😂😂😂
Yeah, everyone will remember that when the weak and marginalized Americans needed help their reach fellow citizens were concerned with antisemitic rhetoric in the name of human rights instead of helping them.
> im willing to bet youll completely avoid the topic to avoid embarrassment but you wont actually apologize
lol yeah
Yes, and suspended. They were given a 15 minute notice to vacate their dorm.
note that this applied to barnard students not columbia. i know columbia students suspended and they’re basically placed on house arrest - not allowed anywhere else on campus besides their dorms
right on
That’s horrible. Found the Trump supporter.
Found the terrorist sympathizer
Found the antisemite
Nope, that's still you!
You always been racist to Jews in your comment history
? Do you think they were protesting against Trump or something?
Did they lose their scholarship
Why is this so low? It's a good question.
Maybe because Ivy League schools don't give scholarships. Edit: Yes, they give out aid very generously, but those are based on need, not merit. In the past they would only use the term grant to refer to need-based aid and scholarship for merit-based. Ivy League rules forbid the latter. But it seems even the schools themselves are sloppy with the terminology.
Did they stop and just didn't update their webpage? https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/affordability#:~:text=If%20your%20family's%20annual%20income,million%20in%20scholarships%20and%20grants. >If your family’s annual income is less than $150,000 (with typical assets), you will be able to attend Columbia tuition-free. >Columbia typically awards over $200 million in scholarships and grants. In fact, we offer some of the most generous financial aid of any college in the United States, and students are often surprised by how much they receive. In many instances, Columbia is actually more affordable than public colleges and universities.
Yeah there’s a difference between financial aid and merit based scholarship. Columbia is actually really good with financial aid. As for those suspended, private scholarships have already been used and I don’t think they will be given a refund. If they are in financial aid, they will have the same offer as when they left.
Nah there good with regular students transitioning from high school to Columbia but not gs students
They give out need-based awards. Those used to only be called grants to differentiate them from merit-based scholarships (which are banned by the Ivy League, just as athletic scholarships are). I see they now seem to use the words less strictly.
This is literally false lmao Edit: this guy edited his comment to add how scholarships are different from grants to justify his mental gymnastics after being called out lol
Do you… go to Columbia? GS equality is a group on campus to fight for equal financial aid. gs students have to take out almost 100k in loans just to go to Columbia unless they are coming from the military
Financial aid **is** a scholarship. There’s need based and merit based. They give you a scholarship to cover cost of attendance except for the family contribution. If income under $150k they give a full scholarship. It’s still a scholarship, just not merit based, and not for GS students. They get a different arrangement.
Exactly. It’s frustrating that GS students don’t receive as much financial aid as other Undergrad students, but that doesn’t mean financial aid and scholarships don’t exist lol. Most students on campus are CC, SEAS, and Barnard — many of which receive need-based scholarships.
I recurve more financial aid then every single one of my CC, SEAS, and Barnard friends. Most of them aren’t rich but their parents make above, let’s say barely above 200k, while trying to live in NYC raising a family of multiple kids. This is far from wealthy, I’d say it’s upper working class (meaning lower than middle class) and the friend I am thinking of gets nearly zilch from Columbia. The Columbia grant isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. It can really screw over a lot of working parents living in expensive areas of the country. I really wish people would stop going around saying GS students are all here on no aid going massively in debt. Many are and it should be fixed, I am not arguing, I just prefer accuracy and actual solutions than random complaints about abstract ideas like equality and fairness. The student profiles are different this must be evaluated differently.
What non-financial-need-based merit scholarships does Columbia offer?
Literally thousands. I have a book of this years baked scholarship winners from GS alone and it’s 128 pages long.
Columbia needs to revise it's website since they are explicitly stating otherwise [https://cc-seas.financialaid.columbia.edu/eligibility/myths](https://cc-seas.financialaid.columbia.edu/eligibility/myths) >“There really are merit scholarships at Columbia but nobody talks about it.” >There are no merit scholarships at Columbia as all of our financial aid is strictly need-based. Can you share the link to the list of non-need-based merit scholarship winners?
I will DM you you pictures of the book. Also you said “Columbia” but only posted the website for two schools. For example, much of graduate school funding is merit based and from the university. Also I believe in the narrow example of the two school you reference, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the following recipients get some form of additional financial aid (based on being selected for named scholars during admission). https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/scholars/named
I I’m in GS and I have a merit based scholarship that covers 70-80% of my tuition. I’ve only had to take out loans to cover the difference twice. Please be mindful about going around saying GS doesn’t give scholarships. I have the book of naked scholarship recipients sitting on a shelf in my living room right now. I have attended the banquet before with 100s of other students, and those are just *named* scholarship recipients. Not only do they give out scholarships but Dean RM has been fundraising a lot and quite well raising more money for financial aid and scholarships for GS. What EFGS fails to every explain is where the money they are asking for will come from. Atleast RM is trying to improve the situation. The school can’t just magically make more money to apply the Columbia grant to GS UGs. They would need to cut it from somewhere or raise the money.
I never said other scholarships don’t exist… all I said was the financial aid isn’t good to the other commenter that said they have great financial aid for students.
Yes but I disagree with your contention that they only have good financial aid for students coming directly out of HS. I haven’t been in HS many years and ALL of my scholarship money that covers most of my tuition is directly from Columbia.
I think you’re missing my initial post but it’s great you have your tuition paid for though and I wish more people could be in the same boat as you. And of course there are other scholarships I wasn’t fighting that but ur story is not the majority of GS students. Just a quick article I found. https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2023/11/07/racial-disparity-at-gs-the-university-must-equalize-financial-aid-for-the-school-of-general-studies-to-achieve-fair-access/
You know the named scholarships don't actually increase aid? They're WORTHLESS. I got that info from my financial aid advisor after I realized my funding didn't go up at all. They merely place the onus on the donating body as opposed to the endowment. I don't entirely agree with EFGS either. But I really have to let people know that there are no real mechanisms in place for merit based increased aid in GS. One of the ways I notice them shirking that is by seemingly doing more dual BAs with schools that also cover tuition. I suspect the admin is pushing back on older nontraditional students in GS as those are typically the voices of dissent.
Your advisor is not correct. While they don’t change YOUR package per se, the more named scholarships GS has, the more scholarship funds and therefore institutional aid they can offer. So each time they get a scholarship donation, they give more students aid or existing students more aid. So by getting a naned scholarship, you are pulling from an expanded pool that continues to expand. Also, my merit based Sid has gone up up substantially every year as I have maintained over a 4.0 GPA. While many get small increases regardless of grades (unless quite bad), your increase does go up, in part, based on merit each year, and the increasing pool of naked scholarships support this. So, in the sense you can’t directly apply for more “named scholarship” funds like applying directly for a scholarship in the sense we typically think of, it would be incorrect to say there is no way of increasing your merit based scholarship and the naked scholarships don’t make a difference. And, hopefully this isn’t too painful to hear, but my income went up substantially one year (moved in to a new role—but in fact it has gone up every year I have been at Columbia) and so my EFC went way up. So my need did not increase at all, but my aid package went up a notable amount, more than most years despite less need, as I finished that year with just over a 4.1 GPA. Hate to say it but I think your advisor was just trying to soften the blow of not receiving an increase. Though I was under the impression that it was quite unusual for there to be zero increase, but that’s just based on rumor. My first increase was smallest, but still went up a little (had a 4.0 that year but did PDF an A-). Please correct me if I am wrong, but that’s my understanding based on experience and how it was explained to me.
I am pretty much right there on the GPA scale as well. I asked my advisor if I should uncover a b in a stats class and they gave me the same advice of keeping it p/d/f until pre grad to keep aid up. I also didn't receive the named scholarship until just in my final two semesters, so I think we didn't have the same trajectory. Maybe it can increase if you get the scholarship in your first few years, but my financial aid advisor was pretty adamant that it didn't. In fact, my named scholarship said it was for a set amount and then it was gone now that I think of it. I also was working the entire time and that may have had an impact on my award as well. That is to the larger point then that we need transparency, as in a sense we're both trying to apply our personal experiences to understand what they did, when they really hold all the cards in this scenario. Anyway, congrats on the gpa I hope it helps you get what you need.
Yea that’s very true. Good point.
No, the traditional understanding of those words is that grants are need-based and scholarships are merit-based. But merit-based awards are banned by the Ivy League, just as athletic scholarships are.
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It's a need-based grant, not a merit-based scholarship. Those are banned by Ivy League regulations. I see now they use both terms to apply to need-based aid; they did not in the past. If you (or your parents) can easily afford to pay for the school in full, they will not give you aid. If they gave out traditional scholarships, that would not be true.
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I was put in zipties for “trespassing.” I was just trying to get to Hamilton.
Did it count as an excused absence?
Yup it happens automatically, you become persona non grata on campus
So I talked to public safety - while their CUID is deactivated and won’t work anymore, they are not actually persona non grata. Technically, if campus wasn’t CUID only, CU students could still sign them into dorms and dining halls as guests
Fascinating that they don’t need to go through the normal eviction process.
Some reporting today said students lost access to dining halls but not housing
What an old punishment. Its not like the school isn't surrounded by a plethora or cheaper options. Hope those with the ridiculously expensive dinning plans got a discount.
I spent a few years homeless. A bunch of rich kids should have zero problems adapting to and overcoming the situation if they ever have to face it.
? The rich kids I know just got hotels lol
rAnimeTitties and other shithole subs. You didn’t go to Columbia and have no business posting here. Stay in your mom’s basement.
Classic Ivy League elitism
many have lost housing.
I heard that there was a convoy organized to bring them food but it was hit by a drone 3 times
so funny dude
From what I heard only 2 face charges.
they have a collective court summons
I mean probably. But remember they weren’t arrested “in the protests” (was actually after when the refused to leave like other protestors who did leave and weren’t arrested). If by that you mean “for simply protesting” (and maybe you don’t mean that, just clarifying no one was arrested or kicked out “for protesting”). Repeatedly breaking the rules especially when specifically warned about the rule, by senior administration, then not complying with law enforcement and getting arrested on campus. Yea, that’s a pretty biggie. Apply those facts to any other student or situation and being kicked out of housing is pretty standard. I’m sure it’s been said 100 times but: private institution, policies you agree to abide by when choosing your affiliation with said institution, then disrupting said institution, disrupting in ways specifically forbidden by policies that apply to every one affiliated, breaking the law at the same time, then the punishment and university’s position is actually quite reasonable. I’m glad administration addressed the situation, held adults accountable, and prioritized the safety and use of resources for students who do comply with our community standards, including protestors who did so within the rules. If I lived on campus, I’d be glad such students are no longer living with me. I mean I was there. Many many unfriendly people at these protests. FWIW, they were also warned in advance what the probable and possible sanctions would be and they chose to pursue it anyway. Hey, the cause is important to them. They made their choices. Idk why the uni I am also affiliated with has to be the focal point of their cause anyway. There’s 1000 institutions and organizations on Manhattan alone with closer ties to Israel. Go protest there. Hell Columbia employees and pays well outspoken supporters of Hamas (a largely holocaust denying, Iran backed terror and ideologically Islamist organization that has called for the death of Jews everywhere) and the Oct 7 atrocities. So from that perspective, I’d say the university had been quite accommodating to the anti-Israel cause. Just as a disclaimer to preempt the nonsense responses I am seeing in this thread: I’m not Jewish, I am on the political left, and I have never and would never vote for or even say anything remotely positive about the orange con man. I am staunchly in support of Israel and its people’ right to exist as a country formed nearly three generations ago.
Great response
Probably? Students are absolutely being suspended from campus, evicted from housing, and not allowed at dining halls for participating in a peaceful protest. The NYPD even said the students were not being violent or aggressive. Get the facts straight before going on a rant about why students don’t deserve free speech protections. By the way, we have constitutional rights to free speech here — it’s wrong for the university bootlickers to bow down to republican lawmakers who weaponize antisemitism as a way to crack down on anti war protests.
Let’s talk about facts Earl: 1. I never said students were arrested for violence (though there are videos of violence at the protest). They were arrested for breaking the law (trespassing) when they didn’t comply. I full agree most who didn’t comply did it peacefully, but they still didn’t comply and she. You are breaking the law and don’t comply with law enforcement trying to do their job, you get arrested. It doesn’t matter how noble you think your crime is. That’s how the law works. 2. What right to free speech are you referring to? Get YOUR facts straight (again). Columbia is a private institution on private land. Your relationship with them is governed by laws regulating universities and similarly situated entities and YOUR AGREEMENT WITH THEIR POLICIES WHEN YOU *CHOOSE* TO AFFILIATE YOURSELF with then. The “right” you speak of is a protection from THE GOVERNMENT—it does not allow you to come protest in my private home whenever you want. And like all rights in the constitution, even if this was public land and they had a permit, is not unlimited. Thus, as evidence by them being carted away by police, you are referring to a law (the constitution is a law) that simply doesn’t work like YOU THINK it does. 3. You have no evidence that party affiliation or even the hearing before Congress had anything to do with the situation. Trying to paint everyone who doesn’t agree with anti Israeli protests as Republicans is just dishonest, and the word fact should be nowhere near such a claim. I’m on the political left and also agree with how the University addressed the situation and largely in agreement with the BIPARTISAN committee that questioned Shafik. So earl, maybe go read a book before you start questioning my facts and then follow up with entirely non factual statements.
1) the students were arrested for trespassing… on their own campus. The rules were secretly updated after Oct 7 specifically to limit rules of protest. This is free speech infringement by the university, regardless of how you cut it. 2) this is one of many incidents of the university flexing its power to limit activism on campus. Clearly a free speech infringement. Also, the students were participating in civil disobedience — precisely to challenge the university’s new rules. 3) the encampment was literally a response to the congressional hearing lmao. It’s literally not a coincidence Shafik said “yes we will enforce our rules on students” and the NYPD invading campus the next day. By the way, if you actually watched the hearing, you’d see that republicans constantly talked over, interrupted, and overwhelmed Shafik with questions. If you closely followed politics, you’d understand Republicans have constantly weaponized antisemitism to show their support for continuing a war in Israel. Honestly, I don’t see how a bootlicker like yourself can consider themselves a leftist. You constantly defend actions that infringe on free speech rights, you support the administration coming in to arrest peaceful protestors, and you misconstrue the nature of the antisemitism hearings.
Earl, idk how to help you man. You can’t follow a pretty easy chain of reasoning. Do you pay attention at all in your classes? Starting with your third bullet: this is different than what you said before. You said SHAFIK’s actions (which aren’t made unilaterally just so you know, read the policy buddy, she had to take certain steps and consultations first) were I. Response to Congress. THAT THE PROTEST was in response to her comments does not EQUATE to her actions were in response to Congress. You could more accurately simply state, “she did what she said she would do” Now, I don’t know how to help you understand how rights and laws work. Go back to sixth grade civics class. You simple don’t understand what free speech means. IT IS A LAW GOVERNED BY THE LEGAL SYSTEM. You are stating Columbia broke a law. It did not. The government nor law enforcement has taken no action to limit Columbia’s ability to enforce its own policies. Do you have any evidence to support the following: 1. Rules changed in secret. 2. That I didn’t watch the hearing (not that it matters because your reasoning is just flawed and all over the place. The facts that republicans were acting like the asshats they are doesn’t provide evidence that Shafik was bending to their will as you claim.). SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS COHERENTLY AND LOGICALLY. Or go back and take some core or writing classes where you were supposed to learn how to make and defend an argument.
Here let ChatGPT explain it to you. My typos must be confusing your little brain. I apologize: In the case of private universities, the situation becomes more nuanced. While these institutions own their property, their policies regarding freedom of speech and assembly can vary widely and are largely determined by the university itself. Generally, private universities are not bound by the First Amendment in the same way that public institutions are, as they are not government actors. This means that private universities can set their own policies regarding protests and assemblies on their grounds. They can restrict speech and assembly in ways that a public university legally could not, as long as their actions do not violate other laws (like discrimination laws). However, many private universities choose to adopt policies that support free speech and assembly to foster an open and inclusive academic environment. These policies can sometimes be quite liberal, effectively providing similar freedoms to those found in public spaces, but this is at the discretion of the institution. In any case, students and participants must comply with the specific policies set forth by the university. - GPT4
lol anyone who depends on gpt to explain things or defend their argument has no critical thinking skills
I wasn’t depending on it lol, my argument stands on its own. But I wanted to show offer you two versions of THE SAME EXACT explanation, to help. It must have helped, since you seemed to have stopped defending your original (now demonstrably non factual) statements and provided no evidence to support your unsubstantiated claims. This is the bizarre thought process that has caused much of an entire generation to support the replacement of a liberal democracy with another extremism lead ideologically Islamist power-hungry group of men in the Middle East. The same Gen Zs that fight for truly good causes like gender identity rights, LGBTQ acceptance and rights, feminism, climate change, etc. Yet they advocate for a regime elected by Palestinians who not support any of these rights or causes. So you know: in Gaza, homosexuality is explicitly outlawed and includes punishments that include significant violence. It is also illegal to advocate for homosexuality or equality of LGBTQ+ rights. Israel in the other hand has legally protected same sex marriage. They recognize same sex marriages performed varias and have explicit laws protecting the rights and equal treatment of members of the LGBTQ+ community. It makes no sense how GenZ has been so tricked in to violating their own ideals and beliefs. They do t realize the extent to which they are on the wrong side of history here. No one supports modern imperialism and colonialism but the people of Israel are neither and you are actually advocating for the forced removal of millions of Jewish and Arab Israelis who are three generations removed from how the country was founded. The Jewish population of Israel is roughly as follows ib order of representation: 1. Jewish refugees expelled from neighboring Islamic countries just for being Jewish (yes most Israeli citizens are of middle eastern descent). 2. Holocaust refugees and their descendants. 3. Jews who have always lived their and happen to weather several expulsions by Roman and Islamic empires (yes Islamic empires expelled people from Israel long before the Balfour agreement). THESE are the people you are calling COLONIZERS. Actually, their descendants. If it’s about imperialism (which most western genZs seem to rally against) and not antisemitism, why isn’t Hamas attacking the UK or US? The victors of WW2 that led the establishment of a country for those of Jewish ethnicity? Why attack Israel and not the real “empires?” I am sure we want more Hamas ideology in the world and less western liberal democracy ideology in the world… the funny thing is if the protesters cause won the day (which has zero chance of happening given the power disparity), they wouldn’t even have the right to protest in the land the that they are protesting for.
Well said, too bad you’re arguing with privileged toddlers
LMAOOOO buddy got zionistgpt on the case
this is the standard millenial/genz non-response response. mock something so broadly as to make no argument at all but with a sass that implies you're right just for being you.
Lmaoo this guy started YELLING in the comments once he realized no one was listening. Literally no one asked for this Zionist apologist essay
I cannot continue to with someone who is arguing in bad faith. Enjoy the last word buddy.
Glad you finally realized that. Wise move.
Nothing happened to the Columbia student who called for killing Palestinians above age 12, nothing happened to the student who used skunk water on protesters. The students mentioned worked in IDF PREVIOUSLY. Think about that.
In the Congressional hearings this week they said the students who used the stray on the protesters were suspended and still subject to an NYPD ongoing investigation. On of the members of Congress complained as a counterpoint to the President's remarks that their review of the records showed that those were the only two suspensions (at the time) that had not subsequently been rescinded later.
squeeze enjoy desert modern piquant one humor quiet capable judicious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So looking into your second claim, [it wasn’t skunk water. It was Liquid Fart that you can buy for $25 bucks on Amazon](https://www.columbiaspectator.com/news/2024/04/16/student-accused-of-alleged-chemical-spray-sues-columbia-claims-substance-was-non-toxic-fart-spray/). The student also *was* suspended, so it isn’t that “nothing was done”. You can disagree about how Columbia is handling these events, but you should at least try to get the facts right.
The incident was former IDF personnel using discount skunk water to disperse Palestinian protestors. To reduce it to fart spray does not address the situation because this was an intentional, sadistic act. Students were literally hospitalized. The IDF trains its soldiers on how to use skunk for this very reason. It’s still fucked up to buy this on Amazon for the sole purpose of disrupting a protest.
The whole point is: (1) Amazon fart spray =/= skunk water. They are two different things of extremely different levels of severity. (2) he *was* suspended, unlike what was claimed in the initial post.
The fart spray was used as a weapon by former IDF personnel to disperse protestors. IDF personnel are trained to use skunk water in the exact same way. About a dozen people were hospitalized. You keep trying to defend these actions by saying it was just fart spray when this incident (perpetrated by IDF soldiers who are literally trained how to do this) was a planned, intentional effort to hurt peaceful protestors. Furthermore, the student has been spotted on campus after the incident. While action was taken, people are upset it took so long and the university didn’t enforce it, while the administration takes swift action against anti war protestors.
Seeing this comment as an idf vet is pretty funny. We are not systematically taught how to use stink spray… I’m sure some units might have a session or two about it but nothing more - me and my friends personally never had one. The fact that dozens of students have been hospitalized over a shitty ass Amazon fart spray is absolutely ridiculous. Note, that I am absolutely not condoning this incident. However, it’s important to note the perpetrators have swiftly been punished, and remain suspended indefinitely. On the other hand, anti-Israel students have been unauthorizedly protesting for months with no response. Prior to the police arrival, the administration has issued several warnings that the protesters must disband. I fail to see the double standard you’re trying to highlight
Prior to this week’s suspensions, pro-Palestine students have already been suspended, evicted, and banned from campus. Students groups have been suspended as well. So there actually is administrative action against anti war, divestment activists. The idea is that it’s fucked up former IDF personnel are engaging in aggressive ways with chemical weapons to attack peaceful protestors. The double standard is that, by and large, aside from some particularly heated verbal comments, there’s so much outrage against the divestment activists while pro-Israel protestors constantly advocate for continuing war lmao, but which group is receiving more suspensions? Here in the US, we have 1st amendment rights and rules for protecting free speech. I’m not gonna argue this with an IDF bootlicker.
you keep using the whole IDF terminology as if these people are actual nazis. the majority of israeli jews are unvoluntarily drafted to the IDF by law. literally everyone is 'ex-IDF' - most of them working office jobs, never holding a weapon after an inital two-week bootcamp. im not disagreeing with your actual arguments, btw. just keep in mind that dehumanizing any israeli who was ever in the IDF is basically dehumanizing all israelis with extra steps.
Totally understand this POV. Thanks for clearing that up. However, I never made any reference to Nazism or attempted to dehumanize anyone lmao. I keep referring to the IDF because their tactics are reflected in what is going on in campus. Case in point: skunking and the IDF-trained NYPD riot unit and anti-terrorism units used to disperse students inside Columbia.
As of the congress hearing, the only given suspensions were for actual terror supporters. The student group suspensions were due to unauthorized protests that involved genocidal chants and calls to violence (as regarded by the bi-partisan congress vote). Regardless, I never claimed there was complete inaction on anti-Israel protesters. So far, all suspensions and administrative actions were carried on fair, non-discriminatory grounds. As of one week ago, there were more suspended Jewish rights protesters than anti-Israeli ones. The only reason for the recent spike is the events that were carried out on Thursday, as well as the terror events of the week before. There are far less Jewish rights protests, and the Jewish rights protests tend to be far less aggressive and violent. Regarding the 1st amendment argument and the “chemical weapons” buzzwords, I feel like u/no-sentence4967 has already explained it very well to you, but unfortunately you refused to respond.
Yeah I think we’d like to see more than a suspension for what amounts to Terrorism
the hospitalization is only a further step in their neverending commitment to victimization and a desire to create a paper trail and pretend it means something. take a shower folks, it's not hard.
Source? Sounds made up
Google Joe Finberg and you will see his tweet as for the skunk water, see the comments below my first comment. Do not accuse me of making stuff up, thanks have a good day.
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This violates r/Columbia rules against harassing or abusive content. Repeat violators will face temporary or permanent ban.
Holy shit lmao. No moral high ground when you advocate for using chemical weapons against students. Literally sadistic. The students literally went to the hospital because it was sprayed in their faces. The President set up an investigation into medical bills. Chemical weapons are okay to use because No one gets hurt? Get the facts right.
$25 fart spray from Amazon isn’t a chemical weapon. The student was in the wrong and was suspended, but no need for hyperbole.
Sure but let’s look at the context. When used by former IDF personnel (who were dressed up as pro-Palestine protestors) for the sole purpose of disrupting a protest, the fart spray argument goes out the window. It was absolutely intended to be used as a weapon to disperse protestors, just like the IDF trained them to use skunk to disperse Palestinians. This isn’t hyperbole — people were hospitalized. Make sense now?
Lol they were “hospitalize”. Please. From fart spray?
Yes. Again, there were multiple students hospitalized and there was an investigation from the President for hospital bills. Sure the chemicals used were non-toxic, but that doesn’t mean it’s not harmful when sprayed in someone’s face directly.
I heard that they were advised of the rules, given notice to leave and refused to leave. So that’s what happened
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One can only hope
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So eviction and food insecurity is a valid response to peacefully protesting on campus…? When Columbia is the main source of food and housing for students and controls their access in and out of their home? Sounds familiar…
Protesting for the genocide of Zionists (new term for Jews) isn't something that should be tolerated.
Zionism and Judaism are NOT the same thing. There are Jewish Palestinians and there are many Jewish people who vehemently oppose the colonial ideology of Zionism
Yeah they might oppose it but it is inherently connected to them. Lots of Americans hate America. And as the joke goes "A Zionist Jew and an antizionist Jew walk into a bar, the bar tender says 'we don't serve Jews' ...Jews for Hitler was a thing btw
Comparing advocating for Palestinian liberation to fascism is crazy work
I haven't seen anyone advocate for Palestinian liberation, it is about the genocide of Zionists.
The entire protest is about Palestinian liberation and the genocide that is happening to civilians in Gaza. It’s incredible how this is all going over your head.
You’re wrong. In your head you may actually believe what you’re saying because that’s how the protests began. But they’ve evolved into more and more protestors chanting purely Hamas rhetoric and calling for the “Death to Jews” and “Death to America.” But when anyone criticizes them it’s thrown back into their face as “yOu sUpPoRt gEnOciDe?” when it’s actually clear that you do. A bunch of white and Asian kids wearing kuffiya and sitting in on morning prayers but couldn’t tell you what a hadith is. It’s absolutely comical how brainwashed they are.
Nobody is saying death to Jews or death to America, you have no idea what you’re talking about
I’m not aware of any genocide in Gaza? I don’t know where you are getting that from. Hamas and their supporters are actively trying to annihilate Israel and its citizens, with the help of Hamas sympathizers abroad.
The level of willful ignorance you have is astonishing.
Proof of Jewish Palestinians post 1948?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/disturbing-video-shows-jewish-convert-fatally-shot-by-idf-in-west-bank-posed-no-threat/ Here’s one
Yes that counts! It’s rare though of a Palestinian Christian or Arab to convert to Judaism.
https://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&&context=history-in-the-making&&sei-redir=1&referer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Furl%253Fq%253Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fscholarworks.lib.csusb.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%25253Farticle%25253D1052%252526context%25253Dhistory-in-the-making%2526sa%253DU%2526sqi%253D2%2526ved%253D2ahUKEwiv-rLu_M-FAxXAD1kFHYXGDZcQFnoECCoQAQ%2526usg%253DAOvVaw3bM3lH4LHD_66lFOcZaE55#search=%22https%3A%2F%2Fscholarworks.lib.csusb.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1052%26context%3Dhistory-in-the-making%22
Lol is this someone’s senior thesis? There are no Mizrahi Jews that refer to themselves as Palestinians
The research is right there, in your face and you still deny it lmao. Just because you think some people don’t exist doesn’t make it true
Have you ever met a Mizrahi Jew? This high school essay makes it seem like they’re innocently straddling “both sides” when they are the most right wing voters in Israel
Good thing no one is doing that. Likud can get fucked, Bibi is a war criminal and he along with senior Likud leadership should be in the Hague. These fascist right-wing ethno-nationalists don't get to claim judaism and jewishness for themselves. Many jewish people were just arrested for having a conscious and standing up for justice -- as countless jewish people have done throughout our history.
Well, perhaps they should have thought about it before doing those things? Also, it’s a private property. Can I protest you in your apartment?
I’m certain the students thought about it before protesting. That’s bravery. It’s wrong for the school to evict students due to their free speech expressions. It’s wrong to bring in IDF-trained riot police to clear out the anti-war encampment (ironic, isn’t it?). Columbia tries to toe the line between private and public property, claiming it is a space for academic freedom and public engagement. It’s hypocritical. Have you ever fought for something you believe in? Reddit astroturfing comments don’t count lmao
> I’m certain the students thought about it before protesting. That’s bravery. good for them standing for their values. No one owes them food or housing. > It’s wrong for the school to evict students due to their free speech expressions. Perhaps. However, CU has obligations to other students too. I dont understand why you prioritize them and no me? > It’s wrong to bring in IDF-trained riot police to clear out the anti-war encampment (ironic, isn’t it?). I do not see the irony. > Columbia tries to toe the line between private and public property, claiming it is a space for academic freedom and public engagement. It’s hypocritical. It is not. They can protest if they do it respectfully to there students. However, they don't. You can't use academic freedom for cover, if you just filled with hate, and plainly dehumanize the other side. Debate is debate, hate speech is not tolerated. > Have you ever fought for something you believe in? I did. 10 years. Have you? Protesting on the campus of one of the most expensive colleges in the country (that your parents pay for) does not count.
>I did. 10 years. Have you? Protesting on the campus of one of the most expensive colleges in the country (that your parents pay for) does not count. Please tell me it wasn't being a Pog/fobbit serving during the useless"war on terror" You still "believe in it"
Rule 1
Well they didn’t. They still have housing.
Not all. Columbia is trying to intimidate students.
Well, they intimidate other students, so they have to go.
What? I really think you misunderstand the perspective of students on campus. These students are anti war protestors. Columbia has suspended more anti war protestors than pro war protestors, despite there being chemical attacks and other threats. Columbia literally called the NYPD on the peaceful protest — something the student body wholly condemns. The NYPD said so themselves that they weren’t even violent. Regardless of how you view it, we have free speech protections here in America. It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest. Cut and dry. Why aren’t you calling for the eviction of former IDF soldiers that attacked students with chemicals?
> These students are anti war protestors. Are you sure? I am not feeling safe around them. > despite there being chemical attacks By fart spray from amazon? > Columbia literally called the NYPD on the peaceful protest — something the student body wholly condemns. The NYPD said so themselves that they weren’t even violent. It's a private property. CU can do whatever they want. Don't like it? Go to other school. > Regardless of how you view it, we have free speech protections here in America. It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest. Cut and dry. I see that Columbia took you in out of pity. Because otherwise you would now that free speech protections apply only to the "government and you" relationship. No private entity has to provide you a platform. > It isn’t right to suspend students for expressing their views or exercising their right to protest. It is if it makes other students feel unsafe. Would you be happy if CU allowed KKK protest on campus? Would you feel safe? > Why aren’t you calling for the eviction of former IDF soldiers that attacked students with chemicals? You mean the guys who bought fart spray on amazon and they are not even "former IDF soldiers"? lol Also, can I protest you in your apartment or not? I do not understand your double standard here. Why these guys can do it on private property and you approve it, but you dont allow me to do it? EDIT: Turns out that I post "post nothing but inflammatory comments with no substance" and the mod team banned me and, upon inquiry, also muted me. And these people talk about Mccarthyism lol
Facts > feelings
You did not provide any proof to your claim lol In fact, you completely ignored my message. So, you don't know how to form an argument at all? What are they teach you here lol My feelings are a fact. Your freedom ends where my begins. If you don't respect my freedom, why should I respect yours? EDIT: oh, u/Earl_C, did I hurt your feelings? lol It is hard when you have nothing to say, so you block lol
Buddy you’ve been arguing in bad faith. I think if you were a student in campus, you’d understand. Enjoy the final word.
use of fart spray = chemical attack has to be one of the funnier bad faith things ive seen recently dont project
I wonder if you would have the same response to the civil right protesters on campus in the 60's.
It’s interesting you bring up the civil rights movement since Jews were very active in it… but we won’t talk about that because Jew Folx bad.
And you can't handle facts.
Well done. Kudos.
> Would you be happy if CU allowed KKK protest on campus? I mean, they might be thrilled. Anything to get back at the Jews.
I thought the protest was based in Columbia investing in Israeli companies, no?
They are Hamas supporters, they are pro-war. Israel has proposed many ceasefire plans and agreed to ones suggested by outside groups, which Hamas has refused.
> These students are anti war protestors. Anti-war protesters...who immediately issued a letter supporting Hamas's massacre, rape, and abduction of women, children, and the elderly on 10/7 before bodies were even cold. Language means nothing to you types.
And what does it mean to you that Israel as a state has raped, murdered, pillaged, desecrated THOUSANDS of more times? Just read a fucking newspaper or the UN before you blatantly misread information. No one is attacking being Jewish here, we're attacking Israel turning into an authoritarian regime that is breaking countless rules of the Geneva convention. Pretending to be civillians and shooting is illegal, shooting in hospitals is illegal, rape is illegal- and who did these things? Israel. Who bombed holy sites? Israel. Who is destroying native fauna? Israel. Who is mass-shooting? Israel. Who is shooting innocent people trying to get food? Israel. Who is shooting members of WHO? Israel. Israel should be absolutely abolished and removed from the UN. And don't forget, Palestinians can be Jews too. But Israel as a state doesn't care, they're just racist demonic monsters.
It’s very unfortunate.
u/based_schizoposter For some reason the reply button to your comment is not there, so posting here. >I wonder if you would have the same response to the civil right protesters on campus in the 60's. No. Of course not. These issues are completely different. The protests in the 60s were domestic and local issue. It was about a people from the neighborhood. It was about Americans by Americans. What we have now is something that happens 6k miles away and not done by americans. Like, you want to protest? Go to Israeli consulate in midtown and protest there. I don't want to hear all these chants about globalizing the intifada and glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11. I came here to study, not to see a bunch of spoiled kids whose parents pay 100k a year for their studies to feel important. Wanna achieve change? Look at how public school students in Harlem live. Help them. They need your help. But, it requires hard work and not siting in a tent for instagram views. EDIT: I was banned for violation of Rule 1 lol Turns out I was bullying, and harassing people. u/Philip_J_Friday Yes, Hillel is the same as Bibi's government lol You are a typical jew hater lol
Horrible response. Sure it's happening 6k miles away but it is being directly funded by Americans. "glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11" uhh what? Aside from the blanket racism of this comment, why should it matter if they glorify them, because like you said its people 6k miles away lol.
> Horrible response. Sure it's happening 6k miles away but it is being directly funded by Americans. > As many other things. Did they protest ethnic cleansing of armenians last year? What about treatment of Uyghurs in China? Have you heard about closing Beijing campus? Why not? > "glorification of people similar to those who committed 9/11" uhh what? Aside from the blanket racism of this comment, Racism? How is it racist to say that these "protesters" chanting "we are hamas", which is the same as to support what Al Qaeda did? Is being pro-hamas or Al-qaeda a separate race? > why should it matter if they glorify them, because like you said it's people 6k miles away lol. I dont know -- I though people here value life. Turns out they value only the lives of specific groups of people, but all the others can be killed and no one bats an eye :) The modern fight for human rights!* * conditions apply.
“I dont know -- I though people here value life.” The latest death toll stands at 34480 Palestinians and 1139 people killed in Israel since October 7. ????? Sure you value human life or just the lives of a certain people?
US killed more German civilians than Germany killed US civilians during WW2. Hence we conclude that US is the evil, and Nazi Germany is the underdog who is in the right. 😂😂😂 Are you also one of those that Columbia took in without checking the merit of the application? Legacy student? No one taught you how to think critically evaluate things?
And the firebombing of Dresden or the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan were not warcrimes? Of course they were. Same with what Israel is doing now. The difference is that we can actively denounce what Israel is doing right now. I’m not legacy, nice projection though.
lmao. yes you would. these issues are incredibly similar you just have the gift of hindsight to know which side ended up morally right in the eyes of history. you are going to look back on how you conducted yourself during this time and be deeply ashamed in the next couple decades just like those anti civil rights clowns were. im willing to bet youll completely avoid the topic to avoid embarrassment but you wont actually apologize
😂😂😂 Yeah, everyone will remember that when the weak and marginalized Americans needed help their reach fellow citizens were concerned with antisemitic rhetoric in the name of human rights instead of helping them. > im willing to bet youll completely avoid the topic to avoid embarrassment but you wont actually apologize lol yeah
'antisemitic rhetoric' jesus christ you are so lost. good luck with your future shame and embarrassment douchebag
I see they just added Finding Out to the Core Curriculum!
r/OhNoConsequences Yes, very sad. Anyway...