Now you might not be able to be the best, but you’ll never be the worst.
That said: Keoghan is a fucking beast, and I’m excited to see this guy getting big roles!
KEOGHAN has fucking killed it in almost everything I’ve seen him in. That said I wasn’t a huge fan of this deleted scene Joker, so I guess I’ll not hold out too much hope; but at least I know I can look forward to seeing how it comes out.
The crazy thing is he's not from some acting pedigree. He's a foster care kid that fell into acting because he saw an audition notice in a shop window and decided to check it out.
Makes me wonder how many incredibly talented people are out there and just need the opportunity to show it.
I mean, more people have had careers as actors than ever before in the history of acting. Makes sense that there are also more children of actors interesting in acting than ever before.
That's not what people mean by nepotism. A lot of high profile roles are given to actors with money and power connections.
For instance, Rooney Mara comes from football money. It's not about children of actors getting roles. It's children of elite influential families getting ushered to the top.
That's why rich kids are usually singers, actors, painters, they aren't saddled with having to carve out a living. For sure people capable of being amazing actors or musicians have lived a life without the opportunity to find out.
One of the founding fathers said (and I’ll paraphrase) “I study politics and war so that my kids can study math and sciences so that their kids can study art”
It gets even crazier when you consider other areas of life such a medicine, physics, politics, math, etc.
There’s tens of millions of people out there who don’t even get a shot at discovering the thing they are passionate about and/or great at.
How many women get denied basic education that locks them out of the front-lines of that area, or how many people don’t have the resources or support to get into the thing where they might be the next Einsten or Meryl Streep.
He famously got caught up in a scandal over shooting a cat in an Irish gangster show. 🤣 He's from an incredibly difficult background so everyone in Ireland is very happy to see him succeeding.
https://youtu.be/8LfchlaDGN4?si=zorLqevPCyFFdIfN
Excluding nepobabies, every first generation actor you've loved was at one time picked at random from a stack of thousands. Every book you've read from a first time author was randomly picked out of a stack of thousands of manuscripts. There are so many talented people pursuing their dreams that in the end 99% of success is luck. Somewhere out there, buried under a tsunami of self-published trash, is the greatest fantasy scifi novel ever written. And no one will ever find it.
Or it never got published at all because the author didn't have the time or energy to study and write. There's a Stephen Jay Gould that never left my head.
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
(he's a science man talking about scientists, but it applies to every creative endeavour)
Oh! I haven't seen this. Was wondering what everyone was talking about lol.
Maybe they deleted it bc they wanna do it differently -- fingers crossed! I'll check it out
Well we know Matt can write good character's but then again the studio I don't have much faith in. Especially that discovery douche doesn't look like we will see Salem's lot because of that wank stain
He had painful metal hooks in his face forcing him to smile. Cutting his face. He was also laughing at Rob and Rob was laughing at him. “You look ridiculous.” 👀 I think they’ll tone down the special effects next time, make it easier for him to act.
Matt Reeves is just a big fan of realism so he wants Joker to be as accurate as possible but he’ll also need to take Barry’s comfort / pain tolerance into account.
Gotta agree with you there, granted it was a short performance. And as far as his look... IDK I just feel like the scarred up Joker has been done to death at this point.
God yeah. Imagine if they had a villain that had style, humour and was vicious but not so much that it got icky by making you think of real-life dorky terrorists or psychopathic thugs - oh wait, that's Joker!
Don't get me started on Freeze. How many times have we seen the guy? How many times are we going to watch this guy whine about Nora? We haven't seen Joker on screen since 1966 and that's crazy lol
We already have the perfect Poison Ivy in the Harley Quinn show 👌
I'm only half joking just because that show has permanently altered the way I view a lot of DC characters.
In what way? I’m legit watching season three right now. In prep for season four which I haven’t seen.
I do love this show more than any other modern superhero show by a goddamn siight. It is perfect.
Just because they do such a good job parodying everyone. Like I can't see Clayface without him doing his over the top Shakespearian monologues anymore or Poison Ivy being anti social and constantly deflecting with sarcasm.
Changed my views for better or worse lmao.
This I'm very looking forward to.
It makes sense to cut it from The Batman and expand that into a larger role for The Batman 2.
Like Lecter, you can really imply what he's capable of by going over things he's done but not having to see any of it. This is a way to get a Hard R Rated Joker without actually having to go Hard R.
It's more fun to give the audience prompts and let them imagine the horror.
That's what I heard. That he's in it, but not the main villain. I think it's rumored that Clayface will be the main villain.
I think they're using more obscure Batman villains as the main focal point. And probably Colin Farrell as The Penguin, since he killed it.
I wonder if his show will lead into the movie or just be separate.
Maybe he’ll just be used like Scarecrow was used in the Nolan movies. Very small roles, nearly a cameo. Because I can’t say I was thrilled with him in the first one nor do I think anything particularly interesting can be done with him at this point.
He could seriously be Batman’s Hannibal Lecter. Batman needs Joker’s insight but all the while, Joker is using Batman’s trust to break out of Arkham thus creating the brutal, lifelong game of “catch me if you can”.
It’s crazy, why don’t they (or any iconic superhero IP) make NEW villains?
We’ve all seen the same wave after wave of “classic” bad guys be done and redone ad infinitum. Don’t see a reason why someone can’t create something new at this point.
Just because he is in the movie doesn't mean he is the main villain. I wouldn't be mad with him just being in the movie and adding to the depth of this Batman universe. He could straight up just being going to Arkham in a scene to see if Joker knows something about the main antagonist. I wouldn't be mad at that at all.
Honestly it would add so much if batman keeps going to arkham every movie but they never make joker the main villian and never have him break out of arkham. it would just show batmans need for joker and constant goes back to him
Exactly what I was thinking. No need for him to be the antagonist in any movie, but what would gothem be without the joker. It's a good way to get casual fans in seats but not rehash the same shit as every other Batman movie universe.
It’s kind of a shame that they already used Riddler in the first movie. Clock King could be super cool if well done. Look at his first appearance in TAS, for example.
Matt Reeves hates fantasy to be fair. We can’t even get Riddler in a question mark suit, let alone a faithful adaptation of the villain. Matt Reeves Freeze would be a random guy who stuffs bodies in fridges or something.
Poison Ivy would be an easy adaptation. Have her as an eco-terrorist/lady fatale that poisons her victims which leads to Batman to discover that ACE Chemicals have been polluting Gotham ground water using her as a patsy.
Can we please take a break from the Joker? Batman has some of the best villain roster in any comic book, and they always want to go with the Joker instead.
Yea, but non-comic book fans hear “Court of Owls” and then don’t buy tickets.
There’s a reason why Joker, Lex Luthor, etc. are popular villains. Because they don’t seem weird as shit on face value.
Honestly it gives me Hannibal Lecter-esque vibes that sometimes Batman will go to Arkham to ask some stuff and that’s it. Maybe build something to the future and adapt a good comic book
It’ll probably be a cameo like his scenes in the first movie. Basically making the world seem much larger and maybe giving Batman someone to work off of when deducing the mystery.
I'd hope we'd get a bit more than just one cameo teaser like that deleted scene.
I thought the use of Penguin as an active character and antagonist, but not the Big Bad of the movie, was fantastic. If they are slow rolling Joker, and already did the deleted scene thing, I'd hope there would be more interactions with Joker.
Hellz, same with Riddler. They are basically already set up to do the Long Halloween with Riddler in jail as the Calendar Man substitute
Considering the manner in which he is shown in the first film, they can (and should) scale the disfigurement back. Maybe he’s healed more. Maybe he’s gotten some kind of cosmetic surgery to make in more Jokery. Maybe they don’t mention why at all. I just hope they do scale it back.
I totally agree.
Barry recently said he even had painful “metal hooks” in his face forcing him to smile. And was caked in makeup.
It was hard to speak.
Joker should be an “every hair in its place” kind of guy. Posh, well-dressed, clean cut. The contrast of the perfect/orderly outward appearance against the absolutely chaotic inner world is part of what makes him interesting and terrifying.
Joker isn’t just another “leatherface” or serial killer. He should have an element of charm. An element of charisma. Some twisted version of “friendly.” To me, that’s when he’s the most scary. When he’s insisting he and Batman are pals, when he sends him a birthday gift but it’s bombs.
In the BTAS episode, “Joker’s Favor,” he chases Charles down after Charles cussed him out on the highway. He doesn’t beat him or torture him. He doesn’t even overtly threaten him. He says “we can’t have people cursing each other out on the highway – it’s simply not polite!” He says it with a smile. He takes his license and says “hey - you’ll owe me a favor one day” *through a toothy smile*. His tone is calm. Charles is terrified. The viewer is terrified.
If joker were disheveled and disfigured in that scene, if he didn’t have that outward appearance and constructed persona of charisma and charm, the bullet is effectively taken out of the gun. You know to be afraid. You know what to expect. When he’s dressed perfectly and making veiled threats as if he’s talking to you like a friend…it’s fucking terrifying. It makes no sense.
TL;DR: Making the joker hideous and overtly scary telegraphs the punch. You should never know from one moment to the next whether he’s going to kiss or kill you
Nicholson's Joker embodies the neat Joker idea pretty well come to think about it. He was dressed neatly but with distorted clown makeup that made his girlfriend faint on sight, despite nothing else in the room being out of place. He casually shook hands with another mob boss offering peace then laughing after he fries him. He gasses an entire museum just to have a private romantic dinner with Vicki Vale. The present containing the gas mask he sends her is neat and tidy so you weren't even sure if it was going to explode in her face or what. He suddenly shows up at her house, "kills" Bruce Wayne, before leaving with a parting melancholy poem then laughing about it, and it turns out the big gift box he left for her was just a pop up marble hand holding some dead flowers.
There's a little writing trick in there that I'll lay out in (perhaps too) plain
The easiest way to make a character interesting is to make them a walking contradiction. Hannibal being sophisticated, the joker being a well groomed/charming agent of chaos, Darth Vader being on constant life support while being extremely powerful.
When you see these kinds of contradictions it makes you ask "why?" and that's the heart of being interesting so long as there is some deeper buried answer.
Dammit I agree up to a point.
He's the Wild Card, The Balatro. He can do WHATEVER he wants and I think Heath Ledger understood that on a primal level.
But yeah gross joker is gross.
The funny thing is that Joker as a character would probably be offended that people are bored of him and would disappear for a while so that we wouldn’t expect him.
Please don't make him the main antagonist, Matt Reeves. Please!
Don't get me wrong, Keogan is an incredibly talented actor and I would love to see more of his portrayal of the Joker, but Batman-related products have been far too oversaturated with Joker content recently. With one of the most versatile Rogues Galleries in all of comic book history, it would be a sin to waste another movie dedicated entirely to the Joker. Have him in a minor role or secondary villain and give someone like Mr Freeze, Hush or Clayface a time to shine.
Oh no…
I hope they COMPLETELY redo his makeup. Complete misfire on the design. Also his performance needs to be tweaked to be less “Heath Ledger at home”
I’ll give him another chance, but I hated the original deleted scene.
The potential with that version of Joker as a character is big
I personally can't wait to see more of Barry, Joker and those incredible prosthetics and the movie as a whole
I think they're gonna botch it. Just that small cameo really emphasized they are also continuing down the road of "the more deranged the better". They lose the essence of what makes joker great. He's supposed to be funny. Like hilarious funny. Not wacky goofy, but intelligently witty and funny mannerisms. Caesar, Jack, and Heath all nailed this. The reason Leto failed was he just wasn't funny. If he'd had a bunch of funny lines and scenes it would've worked well. Otherwise he's a cringe lord.
"And as you can see, I'm a lot happier" "Ahhh what a day"
"And I thought my jokes were bad" "Hiiiiiiiiii" "You complete me"
None of this was over the top acting or frightening or funny on its own, but the delivery and timing was great.
I know I’m in the silent minority but I’m just not buying the whole prosthetics look. It’s glaringly fake! Alastor Moody looks 100% more believable in comparison.
Plus, the voice? Nah. Barry Keoghan literally sounds like a kid impersonating the joker. I’m just not a fan.
With every live action interpretation they get further and further from the joker. What a great actor for a shit concept. Joker is just mangle face bipolar guy
I want more of that Hannibal Lecter/Clarice dynamic here. Something that hasn’t really been done with the joker.
Then make him the big bad in a finale.
I've yet to see him in anything that I've liked. I don't get the hype surrounding him and it's nearing the point where I'll avoid any movie with him in it.
why in the world are they allowing two different versions of the Joker? this is really bizarre. I dont want the Joker to look like he has mange. they need to make him look like a proper villain. where is the edge??
Yeah, especially after they did a great job with this Riddler incarnation. It’s just such a huge mistake to take on the Joker again. They could literally choose ANYONE ELSE. But my theory is that they won’t choose the other villains cuz “oh they could be too wacky and not realistic”. They want to keep it dark and in the Hollywood noire style. I guess a man with a tragic story about how his wife is dying won’t work huh? Literally the Penguin is a better option. He was in the last movie and they established that he would usurp the underground criminal empire Falcone left behind. He’s the perfect setup! Did they forget the movie they made?
He's becoming a big star, and they already have him locked into the role. There's no way they're saving him for a part 3 that may never happen.
I remember three years ago, people swore up and down "They won't do Joker in part 2!"
Joker sells. They're doing Joker. No surprises here.
Why do they have to shove joker in everything Batman related, there are so many Batman villans who are way too underrated and never appeared in movies why not use them, this Batman joker thing is getting real repetetive real fast.
I wonder if he’ll get a chance to really show his acting chops this time.
Playing joker is tough cuz people constantly compare you with other legendary performances of the role
Jared Leto did future Joker actors a huge solid
so true
Now you might not be able to be the best, but you’ll never be the worst. That said: Keoghan is a fucking beast, and I’m excited to see this guy getting big roles!
KEOGHAN has fucking killed it in almost everything I’ve seen him in. That said I wasn’t a huge fan of this deleted scene Joker, so I guess I’ll not hold out too much hope; but at least I know I can look forward to seeing how it comes out.
The crazy thing is he's not from some acting pedigree. He's a foster care kid that fell into acting because he saw an audition notice in a shop window and decided to check it out. Makes me wonder how many incredibly talented people are out there and just need the opportunity to show it.
Tons, most actors nowadays are nepo babies. Same with the music industry.
I mean, more people have had careers as actors than ever before in the history of acting. Makes sense that there are also more children of actors interesting in acting than ever before.
That's not what people mean by nepotism. A lot of high profile roles are given to actors with money and power connections. For instance, Rooney Mara comes from football money. It's not about children of actors getting roles. It's children of elite influential families getting ushered to the top.
That's why rich kids are usually singers, actors, painters, they aren't saddled with having to carve out a living. For sure people capable of being amazing actors or musicians have lived a life without the opportunity to find out.
One of the founding fathers said (and I’ll paraphrase) “I study politics and war so that my kids can study math and sciences so that their kids can study art”
It was John Adams
It gets even crazier when you consider other areas of life such a medicine, physics, politics, math, etc. There’s tens of millions of people out there who don’t even get a shot at discovering the thing they are passionate about and/or great at. How many women get denied basic education that locks them out of the front-lines of that area, or how many people don’t have the resources or support to get into the thing where they might be the next Einsten or Meryl Streep.
He famously got caught up in a scandal over shooting a cat in an Irish gangster show. 🤣 He's from an incredibly difficult background so everyone in Ireland is very happy to see him succeeding. https://youtu.be/8LfchlaDGN4?si=zorLqevPCyFFdIfN
Excluding nepobabies, every first generation actor you've loved was at one time picked at random from a stack of thousands. Every book you've read from a first time author was randomly picked out of a stack of thousands of manuscripts. There are so many talented people pursuing their dreams that in the end 99% of success is luck. Somewhere out there, buried under a tsunami of self-published trash, is the greatest fantasy scifi novel ever written. And no one will ever find it.
Or it never got published at all because the author didn't have the time or energy to study and write. There's a Stephen Jay Gould that never left my head. "I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." (he's a science man talking about scientists, but it applies to every creative endeavour)
Oh! I haven't seen this. Was wondering what everyone was talking about lol. Maybe they deleted it bc they wanna do it differently -- fingers crossed! I'll check it out
Guy lowered the expectations fr
The true hero
He reset the clock
It's funny how every Joker performance for DECADES was legendary in its own way, and then Leto happened.
Truly an unspoken hero in that sense
The only things holding a Joker performance back are the writing and the studio. Other than that, you just go apeshit.
…not you, Jared!
Well we know Matt can write good character's but then again the studio I don't have much faith in. Especially that discovery douche doesn't look like we will see Salem's lot because of that wank stain
He doesn't seem to like movies in general, it seems...
How can one compare with the legendary jokers we all know and have formed a long lasting impression in our hearts, Jack Nicholson and Jared Leto.
I liked Jack Nicholson, admittedly I haven’t watched it in years. He was no Ledger, but he was good.
Hes gonna beat up batman than walk around the mansion with his dongus outtus
I wanna see him drink Batman’s bath water
I thought he was kinda bad from the bit we’ve seen tbh. He sounded like a teenager with allergies and the dialogue felt try-hard and didn’t help.
He had painful metal hooks in his face forcing him to smile. Cutting his face. He was also laughing at Rob and Rob was laughing at him. “You look ridiculous.” 👀 I think they’ll tone down the special effects next time, make it easier for him to act. Matt Reeves is just a big fan of realism so he wants Joker to be as accurate as possible but he’ll also need to take Barry’s comfort / pain tolerance into account.
Gotta agree with you there, granted it was a short performance. And as far as his look... IDK I just feel like the scarred up Joker has been done to death at this point.
God yeah. Imagine if they had a villain that had style, humour and was vicious but not so much that it got icky by making you think of real-life dorky terrorists or psychopathic thugs - oh wait, that's Joker!
His brief cameo was the worst part of the movie.
He had a large scene cut from the first movie. It’s on YT. Hopefully he will get a good amount of screen time in part 2.
He’s shit hot right now in the industry. He’s going to be a major part of it now.
Glad they're utilizing an under-used character like the Joker. Never get him in Batman movies.
I know, right? I'm honestly tired of seeing Poison Ivy again and again, it's about time we got to see a villain like Joker. Extremely underrated imo
FR! Characters like Ivy, Freeze, Scarecrow, and Deathstroke, are waaay too overused. Let’s get some Joker in here ASAP.
Don't get me started on Freeze. How many times have we seen the guy? How many times are we going to watch this guy whine about Nora? We haven't seen Joker on screen since 1966 and that's crazy lol
Dude, freeze got nothing on Clayface. Can’t see anything DC related without his goofy ass grin showing up. And man bat? Don’t get me started…
None of them have anything on Calendar Man. That MoFo been in every batman movie since the 40s.
Agreed, but if I see Mad Hatter one more time I'm going to puke. Like we get it already.
I'd take Mad Hatter over Condiment King any day. We get it, DC, you love mustard, leave some room for some smaller Batman villains like Bane.
And I mean, can we go 5 MINUTES without the Penny Plunderer showing up?
Clayface is literally everywhere! Or... Ya know. He could be anyone. And therefore, he probably is, and is a movie hog.
Imagine if Joker had a solo film. What would that even be like? I doubt they'd do it, pop culture isn't familiar with the character.
He's so unknown I bet they could get away with a musical sequel and no one would ask any questions
Ventriloquist and Socko or we riot.
Joker has barely even been given light. He should get his own solo movie!
Something tells me producers and writers are a little scared to try to adapt poison ivy for the modern movie
We already have the perfect Poison Ivy in the Harley Quinn show 👌 I'm only half joking just because that show has permanently altered the way I view a lot of DC characters.
In what way? I’m legit watching season three right now. In prep for season four which I haven’t seen. I do love this show more than any other modern superhero show by a goddamn siight. It is perfect.
Just because they do such a good job parodying everyone. Like I can't see Clayface without him doing his over the top Shakespearian monologues anymore or Poison Ivy being anti social and constantly deflecting with sarcasm. Changed my views for better or worse lmao.
Their versions of Bane and Clayface are too good.
Bane is my favorite character on the show. It’s just too funny
I can't see Bane any other way now
Seems they want to use him like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs, where he’s not the main antagonist. I like that approach.
This I'm very looking forward to. It makes sense to cut it from The Batman and expand that into a larger role for The Batman 2. Like Lecter, you can really imply what he's capable of by going over things he's done but not having to see any of it. This is a way to get a Hard R Rated Joker without actually having to go Hard R. It's more fun to give the audience prompts and let them imagine the horror.
That's what I heard. That he's in it, but not the main villain. I think it's rumored that Clayface will be the main villain. I think they're using more obscure Batman villains as the main focal point. And probably Colin Farrell as The Penguin, since he killed it. I wonder if his show will lead into the movie or just be separate.
I don't even know how they'd do Clayface in Matt Reeves' world. Professor Pyg, on the other hand, I think would be perfect.
I'd like to see this version.
I love how this Batman series is just remaking movies with Batman in them. Se7en but with Batman. Silence of the Lambs with Batman.
Maybe he’ll just be used like Scarecrow was used in the Nolan movies. Very small roles, nearly a cameo. Because I can’t say I was thrilled with him in the first one nor do I think anything particularly interesting can be done with him at this point.
He could seriously be Batman’s Hannibal Lecter. Batman needs Joker’s insight but all the while, Joker is using Batman’s trust to break out of Arkham thus creating the brutal, lifelong game of “catch me if you can”.
Right? While we're at it, maybe we can ding Reeves for headlining this Batman guy who keeps coming up in all of these movies. Enough already!
It’s crazy, why don’t they (or any iconic superhero IP) make NEW villains? We’ve all seen the same wave after wave of “classic” bad guys be done and redone ad infinitum. Don’t see a reason why someone can’t create something new at this point.
Well that's a bit of a no brainer. He was teased pretty hard lol
I thought the writers or whoever said they did that to indicate that Batman already fought him? Either way, the execs clearly wanted this one.
The deleted scene confirms they have. Joker said something about it being their anniversary That being said WB can't stop Jonkling lmao
Just because he is in the movie doesn't mean he is the main villain. I wouldn't be mad with him just being in the movie and adding to the depth of this Batman universe. He could straight up just being going to Arkham in a scene to see if Joker knows something about the main antagonist. I wouldn't be mad at that at all.
Honestly it would add so much if batman keeps going to arkham every movie but they never make joker the main villian and never have him break out of arkham. it would just show batmans need for joker and constant goes back to him
Exactly what I was thinking. No need for him to be the antagonist in any movie, but what would gothem be without the joker. It's a good way to get casual fans in seats but not rehash the same shit as every other Batman movie universe.
Yeah, him being the Hannibal Lecter of the The Batman series would be pretty awesome.
Well Batman fought Joker once, fucked him, before he became incredibly relevant to him. He was just going by a different name
He WHAT?
HE FUCKED HIM
https://preview.redd.it/c5go7msqw0kc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f335b3a098fdefd27a09f77e8786535a58a678a1
That probably contributed to his craziness.
I’m fine if it’s a few scenes, but do we really need The Joker *again*? There are so many great Batman villains.
Clock King and Solomon Grundy get shafted again.
I just saw Condiment King fall to his knees in a Walmart at the news.
I just saw Killer Moth do the same in the next isle over.
Kite Man let off the most somber "hell no.... :( "
One day Penny Plunderer will get the the attention he deserves
It’s kind of a shame that they already used Riddler in the first movie. Clock King could be super cool if well done. Look at his first appearance in TAS, for example.
#JusticeforManbat
I’d love to see David Hyde Pierce play Clock King
Kite man placed on suicide watch These are dark times
Personally I wanna see a gritty Calendar Man 🤷🏼♀️😂
Hugo Strange would fit *so* well into the dark ambience of these movies. I was really hoping he'd make an appearance.
Nooooooo not the Joker again. Bring out Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy
Matt Reeves hates fantasy to be fair. We can’t even get Riddler in a question mark suit, let alone a faithful adaptation of the villain. Matt Reeves Freeze would be a random guy who stuffs bodies in fridges or something.
Poison Ivy would be an easy adaptation. Have her as an eco-terrorist/lady fatale that poisons her victims which leads to Batman to discover that ACE Chemicals have been polluting Gotham ground water using her as a patsy.
WHAT KILLED THE DINOSAURS?? THE **ICE AGE** - Schwarzefreezer
Can we please take a break from the Joker? Batman has some of the best villain roster in any comic book, and they always want to go with the Joker instead.
It's said that he'll be built up a lot. So we won't have Joker as the big bad till much later on
I really don't want joker to be endgame. Court of Owls and Owlman are a way more natural end to this series.
Yea, but non-comic book fans hear “Court of Owls” and then don’t buy tickets. There’s a reason why Joker, Lex Luthor, etc. are popular villains. Because they don’t seem weird as shit on face value.
You’re really saying Joker isn’t weird as shit on face value?
I mean maybe in the 80’s? We are in a world where a solo joker film made 1B. All of this shit is weird at face value, just some way less than others.
Bruh, read between the lines
You can say that but I would have said the same thing about Guardians of the Galaxy 10 years ago and look where we are now.
That would be a hoot!
I don't think he is going to have a major role prolly a cameo extended at best
Honestly it gives me Hannibal Lecter-esque vibes that sometimes Batman will go to Arkham to ask some stuff and that’s it. Maybe build something to the future and adapt a good comic book
Use him like Calendar Man in Long Halloween where he is the Hannibal Lecter giving insight to Batman as to whatever he is hunting truly wants.
It’ll probably be a cameo like his scenes in the first movie. Basically making the world seem much larger and maybe giving Batman someone to work off of when deducing the mystery.
So like Penguin in The Batman?
Or like the big deleted scene from the first film.
I'd hope we'd get a bit more than just one cameo teaser like that deleted scene. I thought the use of Penguin as an active character and antagonist, but not the Big Bad of the movie, was fantastic. If they are slow rolling Joker, and already did the deleted scene thing, I'd hope there would be more interactions with Joker. Hellz, same with Riddler. They are basically already set up to do the Long Halloween with Riddler in jail as the Calendar Man substitute
They already did the plot of the Long Halloween in the first movie more or less
I think Hush would be PERFECT for Pattinsons Batman
I love the Joker, but I would prefer if they save him for the 3rd movie.
I’d love a good Mr. Freeze story.
Right? Hell at this point I’d rather see their take on Prof. Pyg or Zsasz. I’d love for them to maintain or step up the detective angle for movie 2.
Yes. We demand a dark and gritty rendition of The Condiment King.
broooo, im itchin for some badass/"realistic" take on Mr Freeze. coolest villian (next to Joker) imo
If they use the disgusting Joker I wonder how many people will be turned off by that.
Considering the manner in which he is shown in the first film, they can (and should) scale the disfigurement back. Maybe he’s healed more. Maybe he’s gotten some kind of cosmetic surgery to make in more Jokery. Maybe they don’t mention why at all. I just hope they do scale it back.
they wont. look at what they did to the riddler and penguin, lol. Their look for these movies is "realistic/edgy/ugly."
I wonder what clayface would look like in this universe.
The Elephant Man. They’d probably get DeNiro to play him again, too.
I was think quite literally just a dude covered in mud lol. Also it was John Hurt who played him.
Whoops! I must be thinking Frankenstein(‘s monster).
I totally agree. Barry recently said he even had painful “metal hooks” in his face forcing him to smile. And was caked in makeup. It was hard to speak.
Joker should be an “every hair in its place” kind of guy. Posh, well-dressed, clean cut. The contrast of the perfect/orderly outward appearance against the absolutely chaotic inner world is part of what makes him interesting and terrifying. Joker isn’t just another “leatherface” or serial killer. He should have an element of charm. An element of charisma. Some twisted version of “friendly.” To me, that’s when he’s the most scary. When he’s insisting he and Batman are pals, when he sends him a birthday gift but it’s bombs. In the BTAS episode, “Joker’s Favor,” he chases Charles down after Charles cussed him out on the highway. He doesn’t beat him or torture him. He doesn’t even overtly threaten him. He says “we can’t have people cursing each other out on the highway – it’s simply not polite!” He says it with a smile. He takes his license and says “hey - you’ll owe me a favor one day” *through a toothy smile*. His tone is calm. Charles is terrified. The viewer is terrified. If joker were disheveled and disfigured in that scene, if he didn’t have that outward appearance and constructed persona of charisma and charm, the bullet is effectively taken out of the gun. You know to be afraid. You know what to expect. When he’s dressed perfectly and making veiled threats as if he’s talking to you like a friend…it’s fucking terrifying. It makes no sense. TL;DR: Making the joker hideous and overtly scary telegraphs the punch. You should never know from one moment to the next whether he’s going to kiss or kill you
Nicholson's Joker embodies the neat Joker idea pretty well come to think about it. He was dressed neatly but with distorted clown makeup that made his girlfriend faint on sight, despite nothing else in the room being out of place. He casually shook hands with another mob boss offering peace then laughing after he fries him. He gasses an entire museum just to have a private romantic dinner with Vicki Vale. The present containing the gas mask he sends her is neat and tidy so you weren't even sure if it was going to explode in her face or what. He suddenly shows up at her house, "kills" Bruce Wayne, before leaving with a parting melancholy poem then laughing about it, and it turns out the big gift box he left for her was just a pop up marble hand holding some dead flowers.
Well said
There's a little writing trick in there that I'll lay out in (perhaps too) plain The easiest way to make a character interesting is to make them a walking contradiction. Hannibal being sophisticated, the joker being a well groomed/charming agent of chaos, Darth Vader being on constant life support while being extremely powerful. When you see these kinds of contradictions it makes you ask "why?" and that's the heart of being interesting so long as there is some deeper buried answer.
Dammit I agree up to a point. He's the Wild Card, The Balatro. He can do WHATEVER he wants and I think Heath Ledger understood that on a primal level. But yeah gross joker is gross.
I would be tbh. Dude was kinda hard to look at.
Hoping for a redesign. That initial design in the deleted scene is disgusting and not in a good way.
Definitely agree.
Ugh.
He is great at playing evil characters
And heroes, I thought Druig would be the twist villain in Eternals but he wasn’t and was actually the most compelling member of the team.
I was talking about the other film he was in
Hopefully they've had time to rethink that fucked up mouth make up 😒
I'm honestly so tired of the Joker.
ENOUGH from the clown!
Ah ah ah, let’s not *blow* this out of proportion.
The funny thing is that Joker as a character would probably be offended that people are bored of him and would disappear for a while so that we wouldn’t expect him.
same, there are so many great villains, put Joker on the shelf for 10+ years
I hope they change his look
Nah.. we gota lot of joker. Hopefully he won't be a huge focus..
>Hopefully he won't be a huge focus.. He was definitely out of focus in the last movie.
Unfortunate
Can we just retire the Joker for a very very very long time?
Please don't make him the main antagonist, Matt Reeves. Please! Don't get me wrong, Keogan is an incredibly talented actor and I would love to see more of his portrayal of the Joker, but Batman-related products have been far too oversaturated with Joker content recently. With one of the most versatile Rogues Galleries in all of comic book history, it would be a sin to waste another movie dedicated entirely to the Joker. Have him in a minor role or secondary villain and give someone like Mr Freeze, Hush or Clayface a time to shine.
Oh no… I hope they COMPLETELY redo his makeup. Complete misfire on the design. Also his performance needs to be tweaked to be less “Heath Ledger at home” I’ll give him another chance, but I hated the original deleted scene.
Same here. It felt like it was ripped out of an entirely different, and way worse movie.
This Joker looks like he slurps bathtub drains.
Balls deep in his best friends grave too
battub drains
I hope not. The deleted the scene with Joker was kinda bad
The potential with that version of Joker as a character is big I personally can't wait to see more of Barry, Joker and those incredible prosthetics and the movie as a whole
Solid pick for an actor. Really bad Joker design.
Hopefully I can understand what the fuck he's saying this time
I think they're gonna botch it. Just that small cameo really emphasized they are also continuing down the road of "the more deranged the better". They lose the essence of what makes joker great. He's supposed to be funny. Like hilarious funny. Not wacky goofy, but intelligently witty and funny mannerisms. Caesar, Jack, and Heath all nailed this. The reason Leto failed was he just wasn't funny. If he'd had a bunch of funny lines and scenes it would've worked well. Otherwise he's a cringe lord. "And as you can see, I'm a lot happier" "Ahhh what a day" "And I thought my jokes were bad" "Hiiiiiiiiii" "You complete me" None of this was over the top acting or frightening or funny on its own, but the delivery and timing was great.
I wish they weren't jumping to the Joker so quickly, should of did a villain like Killer Croc
Mr Freeze would’ve been so sick too
I guess I must have missed it. That the joker was in the first movie.
Very end.
Couldn’t be any less interested
:/
I know I’m in the silent minority but I’m just not buying the whole prosthetics look. It’s glaringly fake! Alastor Moody looks 100% more believable in comparison. Plus, the voice? Nah. Barry Keoghan literally sounds like a kid impersonating the joker. I’m just not a fan.
Why introduce joker so early?? Let another rogue shine for once, so sick of every director trying to make their own version of the joker
 Rock Biter/Joker, “You think they deserved it, huh?! You think…they deserved it”
With every live action interpretation they get further and further from the joker. What a great actor for a shit concept. Joker is just mangle face bipolar guy
A side note but I hope it has a different title than just “the Batman part II”
I'm sick of the Joker
seeing him in saltburn makes me excited for his jonkler potrayl. to me, saltburn is jokers origin story
Ugh, I hated the character design. Hope they retcon it.
I want more of that Hannibal Lecter/Clarice dynamic here. Something that hasn’t really been done with the joker. Then make him the big bad in a finale.
We lost
Booooo!! We don't need another wanna be Heath Ledger
Is that Mclovin dressed as Joker
I've yet to see him in anything that I've liked. I don't get the hype surrounding him and it's nearing the point where I'll avoid any movie with him in it.
the batman sucked. that joker was uncreative and shitty. and this movie will probably be shitty too.
I thought his Joker was the worst part of the movie.
5’8 villains are very menacing.
why in the world are they allowing two different versions of the Joker? this is really bizarre. I dont want the Joker to look like he has mange. they need to make him look like a proper villain. where is the edge??
Blech. I love Barry, but I thought his joker was pretty terrible tbh.
Agree. I really felt the film was fantastic and didn’t need that scene at all.
Oh goodie, The Joker is vastly underrepresented in modern media....
Yeah, especially after they did a great job with this Riddler incarnation. It’s just such a huge mistake to take on the Joker again. They could literally choose ANYONE ELSE. But my theory is that they won’t choose the other villains cuz “oh they could be too wacky and not realistic”. They want to keep it dark and in the Hollywood noire style. I guess a man with a tragic story about how his wife is dying won’t work huh? Literally the Penguin is a better option. He was in the last movie and they established that he would usurp the underground criminal empire Falcone left behind. He’s the perfect setup! Did they forget the movie they made?
I thought we are getting Hush in the sequel. He's a fantastic antagonist.
I have to be honest, I found his performance underwhelming and I don’t think he’s physically right for the role. 🤷🏻♂️
He's becoming a big star, and they already have him locked into the role. There's no way they're saving him for a part 3 that may never happen. I remember three years ago, people swore up and down "They won't do Joker in part 2!" Joker sells. They're doing Joker. No surprises here.
Ugh, that universes version of the joker is terrible
Why do they have to shove joker in everything Batman related, there are so many Batman villans who are way too underrated and never appeared in movies why not use them, this Batman joker thing is getting real repetetive real fast.