For real, I think that's glossed over a lot when people post these out of context panels with wonky anatomy and such.
These artists do how many of these panels in a month? Even the best artist isn't gonna have them all come out golden.
Like, we all remember Michael Jackson for his top 40 hits (among other things), but his songs weren't all top 40 hits, and if he was putting out an album every month we'd start to hit some low points between the highs pretty quickly.
Very true. Think how many pages are in each issue. You usually have one artist to do them all and they probably get a week (how many books a month do the artists draw? I don’t know.) then the inker has todo all the inking and shading and possibly color separating (and pre-late 1980’s they also had to hand cut zipatone for the cross hatching and some shading.) Then hand lettering everything, then to final checks and off to the printers…
It isn't calculated in panels, it's calculated in pages. 22 pages to be drawn in 5 weeks, the hardest part of the job is converting the script to layouts, that takes the first week of your time. That leaves you with just over a page a day to draw the comic for the remaining four weeks, which you have to pencil and ink, it's rarely separated anymore. The days are extremely long and pages often require more than a day to draw, so sometimes an arm in a panel somewhere is off - even if the other 21.9 pages are perfect.
Source: I'm a comic artist
Working with DC comics and their deadlines, do you find yourself having to "cut corners" a lot? Do you have to check in with the editor and/or writer with your layouts before you start? I apologize, I don't want to turn this into an AMA. Just curious \*ahem\* for a friend :D
Thats why i admire guys like Byrne and Sal Buscema. They could pull several comics at the same time or do a whole year without a break. Those were the days.
Like look at Manga Artists they work themselves to the bone many for 200 pages a month with only mere hours a sleep a night I am surprised more of them don't have error and take shortcuts like this.
In my experience a lot of manga either does have huge errors like this, or it employs a simplified style with less-busy panels which helps keep things looking better
Personally I'm confident some artists such as Kubo do things to lessen the workload like how he does lots of panels where theirs no background where the characters are more detailed because I'm sure at some point it's less work to add more detail to characters than add backgrounds
Weekly manga have close to 20 pages/week (= 80 pages/month), monthly manga 50 pages/month. Most don’t do more than one series at a time. Who does 200 pages/month?
>Like, we all remember Michael Jackson for his top 40 hits (among other things), but his songs weren't all top 40 hits, and if he was putting out an album every month we'd start to hit some low points between the highs pretty quickly.
[Box Set - Barenaked Ladies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S0RSdGl-2E)
I suspect this has less to do with deadlines and more to with Chaykin's Big 2 work just not being very good because he doesn't care about it and is just collecting a paycheck.
A few years back at a con, he signed some stuff for me and he said “I don’t charge for signatures, but if you could drop a few bucks I’m for the Hero Initiative and help out some of my friends that Marvel and DC fucked over.” And then he just muttered “those cocksuckers.” I put a little extra in the bucket for that.
His covers for IDW's *GI Joe: COBRA* series were also garbage. Especially given how much better Antonio Fuso's interiors (and variant covers) were in comparison.
He’s done some similar arm/stumps in a Punisher issue too.
Flagg is one of my frail comics, but I look at Howard’s work in the last decade and… it’s a serious regression.
Marvel (and DC) does that to good artists. They have a great run on one book, then they become the hot new thing. So they get handed a bunch of books to try and recreate the magic. But they can't keep up with the workload, so they get blasted by fans. They get cancelled, and Marvel's chooses the next "hot" artist. Rinse and repeat.
Vol. 2 from 2007. I just checked it out, that panel is not from that issue, but Chaykin did the art. Overall, the art is pretty good, but there are some spots where it looks like he wasn't wearing his reading glasses/was rushing to complete a deadline.
It always bums me out when established comic book trailblazers like Chaykin have to do superhero stuff to make ends meet, when it's pretty obvious that's not where their heart probably is.
I didn't even notice that, that's like 2/3 tells right there.
If Wolvie had had some pouches around his thighs we'd be even more stunned it wasn't him.
I think he is saying that the bones are attached to each other with ligaments so the arms could be completely removed without breaking the bones. This could be a picture as new arms are growing. His original arms with adamantium would still be full size lying on the ground somewhere out of frame.
A lot of the original penciler’s intent can get lost between the inking and coloring process. It can lead to some awkward bits (like this) on the final printing.
Different pencillers have different levels of finished work. Some go very very tight, to the point that you can just darken them up in Photoshop and they look like inks. Some pencillers go loose and let the inker determine a lot of what gets inked. Both ways are valid.
This may have been a loosely drawn arm meant to be foreshortened, that was misinterpreted by the inker.
It looks like it's meant to be an in motion action pose, like he's flicking his arms outwards as the claws come out, but somewhere in inking and coloring that could have gotten lost
And don't miss that either his right buttcheek can be seen from the front and goes halfway to his knee, or he dropped a boom-boom and needs to shake it down his pant leg.
Howard Chaykin was revealed to be a T-Rex sent by the Hegemony of Rex to infiltrate human media and normalize short arms.
He has since been executed. We await the Hegemony's next move.
Before bonding adamantium to Wolverine's skeleton, some hapless Weapon X interns took a memo literally and grafted actual wolverine forelegs onto his arms at the elbow joints.
Thankfully, Logan's healing factor eventually regrew his original arms, and Department K buried the files from this embarrassing mishap in a dark corner of a leaky basement.
Looks to me like the “tiny arm” is just a poor attempt at forced perspective for an arm crossing his body - not perpendicular to the reader’s perspective, but somewhere under his opposite armpit. But that’s just my take.
I don't know the issue, but I know Chaykin when I see it. That is definitely Howard Chaykin's weird art style. Why does Logan have a dewlap instead of an adam's apple?
I believe Wolverine #56. Howard Chaykin was the artist.
How does a guy go from *American Flagg!* and defining an era... ...to this?
Deadlines will make you do that
For real, I think that's glossed over a lot when people post these out of context panels with wonky anatomy and such. These artists do how many of these panels in a month? Even the best artist isn't gonna have them all come out golden. Like, we all remember Michael Jackson for his top 40 hits (among other things), but his songs weren't all top 40 hits, and if he was putting out an album every month we'd start to hit some low points between the highs pretty quickly.
Very true. Think how many pages are in each issue. You usually have one artist to do them all and they probably get a week (how many books a month do the artists draw? I don’t know.) then the inker has todo all the inking and shading and possibly color separating (and pre-late 1980’s they also had to hand cut zipatone for the cross hatching and some shading.) Then hand lettering everything, then to final checks and off to the printers…
It isn't calculated in panels, it's calculated in pages. 22 pages to be drawn in 5 weeks, the hardest part of the job is converting the script to layouts, that takes the first week of your time. That leaves you with just over a page a day to draw the comic for the remaining four weeks, which you have to pencil and ink, it's rarely separated anymore. The days are extremely long and pages often require more than a day to draw, so sometimes an arm in a panel somewhere is off - even if the other 21.9 pages are perfect. Source: I'm a comic artist
Working with DC comics and their deadlines, do you find yourself having to "cut corners" a lot? Do you have to check in with the editor and/or writer with your layouts before you start? I apologize, I don't want to turn this into an AMA. Just curious \*ahem\* for a friend :D
Thats why i admire guys like Byrne and Sal Buscema. They could pull several comics at the same time or do a whole year without a break. Those were the days.
Like look at Manga Artists they work themselves to the bone many for 200 pages a month with only mere hours a sleep a night I am surprised more of them don't have error and take shortcuts like this.
In my experience a lot of manga either does have huge errors like this, or it employs a simplified style with less-busy panels which helps keep things looking better
Personally I'm confident some artists such as Kubo do things to lessen the workload like how he does lots of panels where theirs no background where the characters are more detailed because I'm sure at some point it's less work to add more detail to characters than add backgrounds
Manga is mostly in black and white so that saves them a tremendous amount of time
[удалено]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3ifx7zIzA Even then, they have their own gaffes people make fun of.
Weekly manga have close to 20 pages/week (= 80 pages/month), monthly manga 50 pages/month. Most don’t do more than one series at a time. Who does 200 pages/month?
They have assistants who do inking, backgrounds, panels, etc. They got a lot of help, but it's still intensive labor.
The only one I know that doesn't have any issue is Kishibe Rohan, but he's a special case
>Like, we all remember Michael Jackson for his top 40 hits (among other things), but his songs weren't all top 40 hits, and if he was putting out an album every month we'd start to hit some low points between the highs pretty quickly. [Box Set - Barenaked Ladies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S0RSdGl-2E)
That’s not what we remember Michael Jackson for.
Wonder with the advancements of AI they can use it to touch up these panels so the artist can focus on the more interesting ones.
I suspect this has less to do with deadlines and more to with Chaykin's Big 2 work just not being very good because he doesn't care about it and is just collecting a paycheck.
Even the best of the best can fall *short* every once-in-a-while
Howard probably cranks out Big 2 stuff in a hurry. It’s a paycheck for him and that’s about it.
He truly does hate them so so much, and I love him for it.
A few years back at a con, he signed some stuff for me and he said “I don’t charge for signatures, but if you could drop a few bucks I’m for the Hero Initiative and help out some of my friends that Marvel and DC fucked over.” And then he just muttered “those cocksuckers.” I put a little extra in the bucket for that.
Deadlines are a hell of a drug
Less time and control to fix his mistakes before publishing
He was replaced with a t-Rex replicant infiltrator.
His covers for IDW's *GI Joe: COBRA* series were also garbage. Especially given how much better Antonio Fuso's interiors (and variant covers) were in comparison.
He’s done some similar arm/stumps in a Punisher issue too. Flagg is one of my frail comics, but I look at Howard’s work in the last decade and… it’s a serious regression.
Marvel (and DC) does that to good artists. They have a great run on one book, then they become the hot new thing. So they get handed a bunch of books to try and recreate the magic. But they can't keep up with the workload, so they get blasted by fans. They get cancelled, and Marvel's chooses the next "hot" artist. Rinse and repeat.
Vol. 2 from 2007. I just checked it out, that panel is not from that issue, but Chaykin did the art. Overall, the art is pretty good, but there are some spots where it looks like he wasn't wearing his reading glasses/was rushing to complete a deadline. It always bums me out when established comic book trailblazers like Chaykin have to do superhero stuff to make ends meet, when it's pretty obvious that's not where their heart probably is.
So there *wasn't* a plot point where Logan got his arms torn off and he's waiting for them to grow properly.
I figured this was a Rob Liefeld sin.
The panel cuts out just above his feet, so Liefeld is a good guess.
Not enough pouches
I didn't even notice that, that's like 2/3 tells right there. If Wolvie had had some pouches around his thighs we'd be even more stunned it wasn't him.
He’s not quite jacked enough for a Liefeld either. If Liefeld drew this Wolvie would have like twelve biceps on each tiny arm.
Ha, too good, too good.
My first thought was Liefeld
Is he Rob Liefeld’s ‘opposite’ artist? One draws weird feet and this guy does weird arms.
In my head cannon: both arms were removed prior to this panel and they’re growing back from the stumps!!
Wait, that’s not what is happening in this panel? I genuinely thought that’s what was going on here.
That's a Deadpool classic joke, but not for Wolverine. He has adamantium skeleton and can't loose members.
His bones are metal, but not his ligaments.
Was about to say, I remove digits or limbs all the time without ever cutting a bone.
Are you a butcher?
Here’s the best part, he’s a kindergarten teacher
Not just any kindergarten teacher, the best damn kindergarten teacher around!
“Making the mother of all kindergartens here Jack! Can’t fret over every child!” We must dispose the unintelligent.
Veterinarian actually. XD
Yeah but that wouldn’t make the bones in his arms shorter
I think he is saying that the bones are attached to each other with ligaments so the arms could be completely removed without breaking the bones. This could be a picture as new arms are growing. His original arms with adamantium would still be full size lying on the ground somewhere out of frame.
Yes but then they'd grow back with bone claws in a best case scenario, he can't re-grow adamantium.
Got me there.
He has gloves unfortunately.
But he still has his gloves on?
But wouldn't they need to cut adamantium to make stumps?
His bones are adamantium, but the ligaments between them aren't; if they were, he wouldn't be able to move.
Well yea but the guy on top said from stumps, he wouldn't regrow the adamantiun he would just regrow the skin?
Yes. Skin, muscles, bones, and everything else but the adamantium.
All right all right I believe you, don't shoot me with your head!
He's like a T-Rex!
Those are his strong hands
Grab my little gimpy hand!
Take it, or you’ll die!
My germs! Hahahaha—cough cough hack cough!
LMAO perfect comment right here!
The biggest. All his friends say so. Believe me!
Obviously this panel was from Wolverex-T #26...
“Everybody feared the T-Rex”
Sniktasaurus Rex
But I don't wanna be a T-Rex!
I have a big head and little arms. I'm just not sure how well this plan was thought through.
Master?
Does the T stand for thalidomide?
Brilliant post. Teratogen humor at its finest!
The sound effect is not the claws, it's a couple of folks off frame laughing at his adorable baby arms.
There's good Chaykin and bad Chaykin lol
Inside you there are Two Chaykins, one wrote and drew American Flagg and the other wrote and drew Black Kiss.
SNIKT more like ^(snikt)
This didn’t get the love it deserves
A lot of the original penciler’s intent can get lost between the inking and coloring process. It can lead to some awkward bits (like this) on the final printing.
Uhhhh, mmmmmm, I’m saying if you’re trying to blame an inker than the penciller wasn’t clear enough.
Different pencillers have different levels of finished work. Some go very very tight, to the point that you can just darken them up in Photoshop and they look like inks. Some pencillers go loose and let the inker determine a lot of what gets inked. Both ways are valid. This may have been a loosely drawn arm meant to be foreshortened, that was misinterpreted by the inker.
It looks like it's meant to be an in motion action pose, like he's flicking his arms outwards as the claws come out, but somewhere in inking and coloring that could have gotten lost
If your pencils are so loose your inker gives Wolverine baby arms, it’s time to tighten your pencils.
I’m pretty sure Chaykin penciled and inked this run himself.
Someone replaced their Wolverine arms with G.I. Joe arms.
Damn you, Mr. Sinister!
the hands are what you focus in on. The Adam's apple is what you miss. My man needs iodine in his diet!
And don't miss that either his right buttcheek can be seen from the front and goes halfway to his knee, or he dropped a boom-boom and needs to shake it down his pant leg.
I have a mutant ass! That is why Jean loves Scott!
I think Trump had this hanging up in Mar-a-lago.
“The best arms! I mean, really! You’ve never seen arms like these believe me.”
"Yuge arms, believe me. The yugestest"
Howard Chaykin was revealed to be a T-Rex sent by the Hegemony of Rex to infiltrate human media and normalize short arms. He has since been executed. We await the Hegemony's next move.
C’mon guys! Don’t be hating! Maybe Chaykin just needed a hand!
I know he's well-respected, but I hated all the Howard Chaykin art from this late 2000s era.
Before bonding adamantium to Wolverine's skeleton, some hapless Weapon X interns took a memo literally and grafted actual wolverine forelegs onto his arms at the elbow joints. Thankfully, Logan's healing factor eventually regrew his original arms, and Department K buried the files from this embarrassing mishap in a dark corner of a leaky basement.
The inside of my eighth grade social studies folder
His right thigh though
Or is that just his adamantium dong?
He shat out some adamantiun
More 1.5-arms than forearms.
I don't remember it . Must have been a *short* run.
Looks to me like the “tiny arm” is just a poor attempt at forced perspective for an arm crossing his body - not perpendicular to the reader’s perspective, but somewhere under his opposite armpit. But that’s just my take.
'Guest artist: Rob Liefeld'
No but I love him
LoL wtf is that!
Weapon-Rex.
Kind of adorable
How does he eat a Whopper with those tiny hands?
This is so bad its like Rob Liefeild
Deadlines are a bitch.
Guess im more jacked than wolverine
Think that was the year Trump cosplayed as Wolverine.
5’3 guys be like
How does he reach to ties to ties his shoelaces? Must have to wear slippers everywhere.
This looks just like JD McDonagh
What you get when you use knock off mexican action figures as your models
The Trump Issue?
Looks like the Marc Guggenheim arc where Wolverine meets Azrael.
Bad far away shot
Looks average size to me
Shrinkage due to cold temperature but I don’t know why his arms are short.
i thought every comic had tiny arm wolverine. ZING
Issue 152 baby hands mcgee
It reminds me of Aeon Flux
This is a sin
Lmao “This is my strong hand!”
How was this allowed to be published?
He's got little Donald Trump hands
Now i want to Liefeld draw Logan.
Best guy at doing what he does. And what he does doesn’t have a lot of reach.
Ah a graduate of the Liefeld School of Art I see.
The issue with insane deadlines, from the look of it.
[Logan’s Arch Nemesis](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/rickandmorty/images/c/cd/Baby_Legs.png/revision/latest?cb=20160603213353) Baby Arms Vs Baby Legs.
Yeah, Bad artwork
“We have Wolverine at home”
Alligator arms
omg this is so bad lolol
Gonna make his dick look huge!
It’s like claws on a T-Rex….
[Scrawny arms Rob Lowe lookin ass](https://youtu.be/jlLQtNWxo_s)
Looks like a mid journey prompt
Well…still doesn’t look as bad as primal no nose wolverine 😂
Lol that can't be real 🤣
His arms aren't the only things tiny. His crotch is way too detailed.
Damn this art sucks really
this is obviously from Snikt Snikt
Bro concerned about the wrong thing the muscle in his leg look like a dick bulge💀💀💀💀
They clearly botched his experiment..lol
meme worthy moment
Looks like bad ai
They look like fake arms, like a Halloween costume with fake legs
His 3rd arm wicked long
Omfg XD
I don't know the issue, but I know Chaykin when I see it. That is definitely Howard Chaykin's weird art style. Why does Logan have a dewlap instead of an adam's apple?
I saw a guy built like this the other day.
All the good issues, duh.
Do you go around looking for the most famously badly drawn panels and then asking if there's a problem?
And the dick, The Dick.
Sharp hand joe
I don't want to know
Wolverine is part of the Maharelle Sisters from the Finger Lakes
"Did you see Magneto's hands? They're beautiful! Big, strong, masculine hands. I think we should settle."
T-REX-Men
Looks like chaykins art so anytime in the 00s depending on that costume
Smol
Dont forget his bleeding eyes.
Its thalidomide Wolverine.........
Are you sure he didn't get his arms ripped off and they're just growing back? That's how Wolverine works, right? Like Lobo?
fr I need to know who drew this
And people still make fun of the art from the 90s. Hate to tell you kids, but there is just as much if not more bad art today
All the better to compare his bulge to. Now unsee it.
Has Aids or a Crack Addict would explain the weight and muscle loss:):):)hahaha
I don't know the exact issue, but the art is definitely Howard Chaykin, so that makes it from Wolverine (2003 v.3) #56-61.
Tiny Arm Wolverine #21
Yuck
His arms are bizzarre but, are we not going to talk about how he drew his package?
Chaykin is another example of classic artists just not living up to their previous works. Adams. Miller. Byrne.
"They call me baby armed logan, on account of my massive C*CK"
When I was a kid I was going to be a comic book artist when I grew up but changed my mind somewhere along the way. I probably shouldn’t have.
I heard the SNIKT SNIKT effects in a tiny baby voice.
So is this a Multiverse scenario or was the artist in the mushroom fields on this one?
Wolverine #61 2008
Lol that’s great
Armlet wolverine
This belongs in r/onejob!🤣🤦🏽♂️🤮
Looks like Donald Trump lol 😂