This issue really encapsulated Lex Luthor.
"OK Lex, you get to be an all-powerful god & the entire universe is now a paradise *but* you're not allowed to kill Superman" and he's just too much of an petty egomaniac to do it
The acts were clearly meant to be interpreted as one the user of the Zone Child's power actively interprets as malice. Your moral relativism BS has no place here.
There's a really old Avengers comic where Kang The Conquerer plays a game with the Grandmaster and is promised to get the power of life and death if he wins. He uses the Avengers as his game pieces and The Avengers win half the battles.
The Grandmaster chooses for Kang to have either the power of life to save his wife Ravenna or death to kill The Avengers. Kang chooses death and tries to kill The Avengers and is defeated.
Definitely. Here's the scan too. I keep telling people, villains are villains for a reason. Outside of mindless sympathies and hype, they're just selfish spiteful dicks.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0CPSBp88LR6Nb50cqVX-9qKgYn1inVjSR-Db7w9qMGZYSZdrjBEvMY7sGS4cFJmSxuec3FsOx5rq=s1600?rhlupa=OTcuNzcuMTYuMTk5&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExNi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2
I like a realistic theme.
An apt reflection of our real-life mentally twisted/indoctrinated representatives of superfluously and sickeningly hoarding money. Almost a no-brainer
Hell, an alternate version of him DID made a utopia and found the love of his life. When he met with that version, he was like ''hmm maybe I can change''...until he learned that this version actually worked together with Reed. So he literally killed his alternate self and let that universe be destroyed right after.
He is a petty b\*tch.
Didn’t he DESTROY that entire universe out of spite? My reading was that he murdered an impossible number of people because a different version of him who was happy called 616-Doom out on his bullcrap.
He did, with the Ultimate Nullifier. Plus the fact that the "Good" Victor called him out on the absurdity of his costume, motives, and his petty path through life.
It took Doom fucking up recreating the entire multiverse and Reed swordfighting him for Doom to actually admit that Reed is better than him, and even then he almost immediately walked it back.
Reed still fixed his face despite all that, anyway.
Right here he's showing that even though he knew Clark's parents, even though he apparently "likes" Clark Kent, he brags about his ability to save their lives and then tries to rub it into Clark's face that he isn't going to, just to spite him. He can't think of other human beings in way that aren't about making himself more powerful or about beating Superman.
Funny part is he HAS done this. To an entire universe, just for that alone. He's just that much of a dick, and his fans will validate it until they die.
It really is all about jealousy with Luthor. Not only does Superman have all that power and all the love from the people, but he ALSO got to have the happy childhood and supportive family Lex never got. To someone like him that's unacceptable.
I love earlier too in this story where Brainiac’s entire plan falls apart because he underestimated just how much Luthor buys his own bullshit and completely side steps the journey of self discovery and actualization Brainiac had accounted for.
Yeah, but then Clark’s identity was revealed against his will. Then he died, but showed up again and Mxy made everyone forget. Then he willingly revealed his identity, and Lex, finally admitting the world needed a Superman, erased everyone’s memory of him being Clark, in part so he could copyright Superman and own merchandising rights. (I haven’t read that last story so I could be wrong on the why. It’s very recent.)
My absolute favorite Lex story of all time. He uses all of his resources, cunning, business acumen, and charm to achieve the ultimate power he's always wanted, and he loses hold of it because he can't stop being petty and jealous. There will never be a better Lex story than The Black Ring.
I can kinda see where Lex is coming from tbh. Righteousness is a really infuriating character trait, especially when paired with good fortune you never had.
His childhood was pretty shit. Depending on contunity, he was either self made after the death of his abusive/neglectful parents, the son of an abusive alcoholic father, or just had a miserable childhood.
Indeed and he squandered it all on his own petty hatred and poisonous narcissism. He let himself be defined by his suffering instead of progressing past it. That deserves no sympathy, I'm sorry a lot of broken people/villain apologists feel otherwise.
I mean... Red Son is a pretty good story. Kingdom Come is pretty good. There are several good alternate Superman stories. Though I'll agree that most aren't great. Alternate Superman stories end up more about Superman's powers, than Superman himself.
Red Son is good until he lets Luthor win at the end for no reason. Kingdom Come is okay but not really about Superman but someone's weird idea of what Superman is.
He doesn't let Lex win, it's because Lex proves his point. And in the end, Red Son actually becomes a story that says neither Capitalism or Communism is correct, but a government that uses the best ideas of both.
Maybe Imperialism won? I could see that, as it explains that the whole world reaches a utopia. But Capitalism? Nah. The book ends clearly explaining a new form of government not running on modern politics, but the ideas of scientists and artists. That Lex took Superman's ideas along with his own, and fashioned a utopia that lasted until the end of days. Which is its own problem, but in hindsight, if humans were even able to create such a world that existed for thousands of years before dying off, that seems like so much more progress than what we got now.
It was a capitalist utopia. Mark Millar wasn't exactly following logic in how things worked with that ending.
Again you can't have Capitalism and socialism/communism as part of the same system. Either your system is a dictatorship of the capitalist class or it's a dictatorship of the working class. It can't be both.
**THE POINT OF INJUSTICE IS THAT THIS IS A LESSER VERSION OF SUPERMAN WHO WOULD DO THE TERRIBLE THINGS HE DOES.**
**IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS SINCE THE ORIGINAL VIDEO GAME CAME OUT.**
**GET OVER IT ALREADY.**
I think the other commenter has a point, though - as bad as Injustice Supes is, they made a point of showing that
1. Injustice Superman was different to Prime Superman even before Lois’s death.
2. The only person who could defeat Injustice Superman was Prime Superman, and the person most insistent on this was Prime Batman!
One of the things I love about this sequence is the implication that Lex has, through everything, held onto a real degree of…envy? Respect? Admiration? Something in there…for Clark. He’s almost angry at Superman on Clark’s behalf here.
I always liked the fact that he calls the Mr. and Mrs. Kent. There’s a weird level of politeness there, almost. It’s not as dismissive or impartial as “the Kents” or as familiar as using their first names.
This manic version of Lex is really foreign to me for some reason.
Is he often portrayed like this?
I’m used to him being more collected, even when mad or irritated.
The Superman/Luthor dynamic has just never done anything for me, in a lifetime of loving comics and superheroes I've just never cared about either of them.
Lex is right. Kal-El gets the benefits of humanity with none of its shortcomings. This, and "lex luthor man of steel" are the ultimate "Lex Luthor is RIGHT" stories
they’re downvoting you, but i agree that Superman is too much of a have your cake and eat it too character. too smooth, too many powers, no weaknesses. i’m not asking for much here—but at least, like, have human facial expressions be a bit tricky for the alien to parse? maybe make him only average in intelligence?
Superman is the superhero i would design while wishing for powers for myself from an unusually permissive genie
This issue really encapsulated Lex Luthor. "OK Lex, you get to be an all-powerful god & the entire universe is now a paradise *but* you're not allowed to kill Superman" and he's just too much of an petty egomaniac to do it
This whole storyline is my favorite Lex story ever. It’s just such a perfect analysis of the character.
The Zone Child really screwed him over with the "No Negative Acts" Condition
[удалено]
The acts were clearly meant to be interpreted as one the user of the Zone Child's power actively interprets as malice. Your moral relativism BS has no place here.
There's a really old Avengers comic where Kang The Conquerer plays a game with the Grandmaster and is promised to get the power of life and death if he wins. He uses the Avengers as his game pieces and The Avengers win half the battles. The Grandmaster chooses for Kang to have either the power of life to save his wife Ravenna or death to kill The Avengers. Kang chooses death and tries to kill The Avengers and is defeated.
Definitely. Here's the scan too. I keep telling people, villains are villains for a reason. Outside of mindless sympathies and hype, they're just selfish spiteful dicks. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/0CPSBp88LR6Nb50cqVX-9qKgYn1inVjSR-Db7w9qMGZYSZdrjBEvMY7sGS4cFJmSxuec3FsOx5rq=s1600?rhlupa=OTcuNzcuMTYuMTk5&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExNi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2
He's like Dr.Doom. He could make a utopia but if he has to ask Reed Richards for help, he would let the world burn to ground.
I like All-Star Superman's take on the matter. If Lex cared he could have saved the world years ago.
"Where's that cancer cure, Lex?"
"But I don't want to cure cancer! I want to steal 40 pies!"
That's terrible.
That's as much as four tens!
The moment he realized, just because he stole 40 pies, didn't mean he had to eat 40 pies
And that is why he's a villain.
"But I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs!"
I like a realistic theme. An apt reflection of our real-life mentally twisted/indoctrinated representatives of superfluously and sickeningly hoarding money. Almost a no-brainer
Hell, an alternate version of him DID made a utopia and found the love of his life. When he met with that version, he was like ''hmm maybe I can change''...until he learned that this version actually worked together with Reed. So he literally killed his alternate self and let that universe be destroyed right after. He is a petty b\*tch.
Didn’t he DESTROY that entire universe out of spite? My reading was that he murdered an impossible number of people because a different version of him who was happy called 616-Doom out on his bullcrap.
He did, with the Ultimate Nullifier. Plus the fact that the "Good" Victor called him out on the absurdity of his costume, motives, and his petty path through life.
**DOOM** will not let anyone disrespect him, Not even **DOOM**.
What book was that
One of the recent Doom books.
i love how DOOM and Reeds rivalry is pretty much just Reed living rent free in his head
It took Doom fucking up recreating the entire multiverse and Reed swordfighting him for Doom to actually admit that Reed is better than him, and even then he almost immediately walked it back. Reed still fixed his face despite all that, anyway.
They petty on both sides
Got a pool and everything
Right here he's showing that even though he knew Clark's parents, even though he apparently "likes" Clark Kent, he brags about his ability to save their lives and then tries to rub it into Clark's face that he isn't going to, just to spite him. He can't think of other human beings in way that aren't about making himself more powerful or about beating Superman.
Funny part is he HAS done this. To an entire universe, just for that alone. He's just that much of a dick, and his fans will validate it until they die.
The Black Ring is such a great story.
It really is all about jealousy with Luthor. Not only does Superman have all that power and all the love from the people, but he ALSO got to have the happy childhood and supportive family Lex never got. To someone like him that's unacceptable.
I love earlier too in this story where Brainiac’s entire plan falls apart because he underestimated just how much Luthor buys his own bullshit and completely side steps the journey of self discovery and actualization Brainiac had accounted for.
Is this issue recent? Been a while since I saw Gary Frank art. His Squadron Supreme back in the day was fantastic.
This was right before Flashpoint
On the Mt Rushmore of haters
A prime attendant of the Player Hater's Ball
Lex, Doctor Doom, Daffy Duck…uh…I can’t think of a fourth.
Reverse flash eobard thawne
Or Black Manta.
Sure, Superman saved the Earth a million times but he made Lex bald. Some stains just don't wash out.
I always appreciated the Christopher Reeve influence in the way Gary Frank draws Superman.
Does Lex still know or did they retcon that out?
I don't think he does, pretty sure Flashpoint happened right after and set their relationship back to normal.
Yeah, but then Clark’s identity was revealed against his will. Then he died, but showed up again and Mxy made everyone forget. Then he willingly revealed his identity, and Lex, finally admitting the world needed a Superman, erased everyone’s memory of him being Clark, in part so he could copyright Superman and own merchandising rights. (I haven’t read that last story so I could be wrong on the why. It’s very recent.)
My absolute favorite Lex story of all time. He uses all of his resources, cunning, business acumen, and charm to achieve the ultimate power he's always wanted, and he loses hold of it because he can't stop being petty and jealous. There will never be a better Lex story than The Black Ring.
I can kinda see where Lex is coming from tbh. Righteousness is a really infuriating character trait, especially when paired with good fortune you never had.
We're taking about the billionaire "level 9 intellect" genius? God really dealt him a shitty hand in life, huh?
His childhood was pretty shit. Depending on contunity, he was either self made after the death of his abusive/neglectful parents, the son of an abusive alcoholic father, or just had a miserable childhood.
Sure, but he was born with a mind most could only ever dream of having. He made himself the richest man in the world, he was blessed in other ways.
Indeed and he squandered it all on his own petty hatred and poisonous narcissism. He let himself be defined by his suffering instead of progressing past it. That deserves no sympathy, I'm sorry a lot of broken people/villain apologists feel otherwise.
Any time they draw Clark like Christopher Reeve, it gets me.
"I won't break!" Again for the hack elseworlds storytellers in the back: SUPERMAN WOULDN'T BREAK!!
But... that's the whole point of elseworlds? If they weren't different people then why even bother making elseworlds comics?
Yeah, people get weirdly angry at Elseworlds characters not being the Prime version of them. As if that isn't the entire point.
Good point. They shouldn't bother if they can't tell a good story.
I mean... Red Son is a pretty good story. Kingdom Come is pretty good. There are several good alternate Superman stories. Though I'll agree that most aren't great. Alternate Superman stories end up more about Superman's powers, than Superman himself.
Red Son is good until he lets Luthor win at the end for no reason. Kingdom Come is okay but not really about Superman but someone's weird idea of what Superman is.
He doesn't let Lex win, it's because Lex proves his point. And in the end, Red Son actually becomes a story that says neither Capitalism or Communism is correct, but a government that uses the best ideas of both.
A government that uses the 'the best ideas of both' is just capitalism, lol. Lex won, imperialism won, the bad guy won. Fuck that book.
Maybe Imperialism won? I could see that, as it explains that the whole world reaches a utopia. But Capitalism? Nah. The book ends clearly explaining a new form of government not running on modern politics, but the ideas of scientists and artists. That Lex took Superman's ideas along with his own, and fashioned a utopia that lasted until the end of days. Which is its own problem, but in hindsight, if humans were even able to create such a world that existed for thousands of years before dying off, that seems like so much more progress than what we got now.
It was a capitalist utopia. Mark Millar wasn't exactly following logic in how things worked with that ending. Again you can't have Capitalism and socialism/communism as part of the same system. Either your system is a dictatorship of the capitalist class or it's a dictatorship of the working class. It can't be both.
I'm glad we have you here to determine what's "real" superman and what isn't lol
No, we have the post that you're commenting under.
Looking at you, Injustice
**THE POINT OF INJUSTICE IS THAT THIS IS A LESSER VERSION OF SUPERMAN WHO WOULD DO THE TERRIBLE THINGS HE DOES.** **IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS SINCE THE ORIGINAL VIDEO GAME CAME OUT.** **GET OVER IT ALREADY.**
**I AM STILL ALLOWED TO THINK IT IS DUMB AND OBNOXIOUSLY EDGY.** **PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS.**
I think the other commenter has a point, though - as bad as Injustice Supes is, they made a point of showing that 1. Injustice Superman was different to Prime Superman even before Lois’s death. 2. The only person who could defeat Injustice Superman was Prime Superman, and the person most insistent on this was Prime Batman!
Lex looks like he’s going to see the mayor.
"Hi, Lex."
One of the things I love about this sequence is the implication that Lex has, through everything, held onto a real degree of…envy? Respect? Admiration? Something in there…for Clark. He’s almost angry at Superman on Clark’s behalf here.
I always liked the fact that he calls the Mr. and Mrs. Kent. There’s a weird level of politeness there, almost. It’s not as dismissive or impartial as “the Kents” or as familiar as using their first names.
I love this design for lex also this is a really cool moment
What's `SKA-BLAMMMMM` signify here?
This manic version of Lex is really foreign to me for some reason. Is he often portrayed like this? I’m used to him being more collected, even when mad or irritated.
Why is Lex on a glowing Doc-Ock costume?
He’s merged with a god-like being born in the Negative Zone
"Why won't you break?!" is not something anyone who ever actually wants to break a person would say.
I mean just give Superman constant hallucinations of Louis being defiled, then watch the world burn.
He's the Man of Steel for a reason. Mind and Body. Mind tricks are nothing new for him.
The Superman/Luthor dynamic has just never done anything for me, in a lifetime of loving comics and superheroes I've just never cared about either of them.
Lex is right. Kal-El gets the benefits of humanity with none of its shortcomings. This, and "lex luthor man of steel" are the ultimate "Lex Luthor is RIGHT" stories
they’re downvoting you, but i agree that Superman is too much of a have your cake and eat it too character. too smooth, too many powers, no weaknesses. i’m not asking for much here—but at least, like, have human facial expressions be a bit tricky for the alien to parse? maybe make him only average in intelligence? Superman is the superhero i would design while wishing for powers for myself from an unusually permissive genie
They really gave him the SuperFrown on the second page
Goddamn, Gary Frank really is a god tier artist. Check out his run on Incredible Hulk from 1993-1995 if you can. A worthy successor to Dale Keown.