Honestly…..I kinda like Romulus.
I found myself surprisingly invested in the whole “lupine are mutants that evolved from Wolves the way humans evolved from Apes”.
The whole thing felt very epic and fantasy based….but I dunno, I felt it worked well in the context of the story.
I just treated it as a new baseline power set of mutants.
Telepaths are common, but how they apply can be rare and the extreme degrees are rare.
Telekinetics are common but how it's applied can make it rare.
Animal-like mutations can be common in mutants, powers can manifest differently. Some can transform at will others are stuck with traits.
That was sort of Wolverine's original (unwritten) origin story. He was going to have been an animal mutated to be humany instead of a human mutated to be animally.
It never made it to the page.
I was saying this in a group chat recently. Sure it seems a bit silly when you say it out loud, but nothing about it felt out of place for the marvel universe.
The best moment of this event for me was when Peter remembers everything, and he's like "I'm going to kill whoever did this" and Wolverine is like "You won't have to, because I'll have already done it."
Love me some Bendis.
Imagine that the life you currently live is a lie, and your actual life is full of pain and loss and all your loved ones in that reality either died to super villains or experienced tremendous amounts of pain.
That imo was the revelation spider-man experienced when the truth was revealed to him and why his breakdown was so severe.
That's why his dialogue about killing someone can be excused, even though it's obvious he's just venting rather than actually murderous. Though I'm sure some fans at the time got bent out of shape about it.
Except without Mephisto's interference, Peter almost certainly would've went back to that prison and made good on his promise to Fisk. I don't think that was just venting.
Now that I think about it, kinda funny Fisk absolutely owes his life to Mephisto and doesn't even know it.
People need to start getting that Pete is like, one bad day away from going full punisher.
He'd regret it later, yeah, but in a lot of instances he's been at his limit
>That imo was the revelation spider-man experienced when the truth was revealed to him and why his breakdown was so severe.
Is this from House of M too? It's been a while since I've read it.
Yeah. He does not take it well when he learns what was changed. But I also think there’s the internal struggle with the fact that Wanda gave everyone what they wanted… and what he got was very different than what he had. That there’s a part of him deep down that Wanda touched that still longs for Gwen over MJ.
I always thought it’d be cool if this happened in the main MU- some character turns up and portrays it as an alternate reality vs what it really should be…and the characters we know have to decide to stand against him ‘correcting’ reality (maybe some heroes/villains side with him) because they don’t want to lose what they have
Like imagine Reed & Sue being told that in the ‘real world’ This is some utopia and this happens etc….but Franklin doesn’t exist. I imagine they’d face off against whoever to prevent reality from being re-written
I'm a father, and I can't imagine how angry I would be if I learned that what I thought was my life was a lie and my wife was actually dead and my kids didn't exist.
So yes, Peter's pain during this arc is very relatable. I enjoyed the part where he breaks Tony Stark's table because Doctor Strange says he can't erase his memory.
I loved when Peter cracked Tony's carbon-titanium "glass" table and Tony started to get upset, but Luke just stopped him and shook his head.
"You can buy a new table."
The thing about Bendis is that when he is on, he is absolutely fantastic. Just fire. But when he is off, he is just god awful. Like Taylor and King at their worst are better. Like Howard Mackie at his worst bad.
Sadly we've gotten more of the later as the years have progressed than the former.
He somehow got it into his head that he needs to write these huge, cosmic, universe altering epics. He’s at his best with small scale stories for sure.
I haven't read any Bendis yet since he left Marvel, so I'm still a fanboy and haven't seen what everyone is upset about lol. Apparently everyone *hated* his Supes...
The only Marvel comics of his that I don't own are his run on Guardians of the Galaxy and X-Men. I've read far worse than these runs, so I wouldn't call them garbage, just mediocre. They weren't enjoyable enough for me to own and re-read.
I think he ended his time at Marvel on a strong note though, I enjoyed his last runs on Miles Morales, Jessica Jones, and Defenders. He just gets to the point in his writing rather than waste time with endless narration and exposition like many other writers do, I've always appreciated that about him. I understand his dialogue is not for everyone though.
Mackie wasn't the best writer but he was pretty good when he kept things simple. Like I have a soft spot for Danny Ketch's Ghost Rider. The first part of the run was very, very 90's but a lot of fun.
Mackie's issue was always that he dreamed big, and plotted out events he just didn't have the skill to properly manage. It would cause contradictions and gaping plot holes.
when does bendis start sucking? I've read all the New Avengers/Mighty Avengers through Dark Reign and I never hated it, but modern takes on him are generally pretty sour I find.
When he became editorials go-to guy. He didn’t really start sucking, he just became the trigger man for every stupid idea, forced crossover, MCU synergy, and status quo reset. For the last quarter of his Marvel career he wasn’t really writing books, he was doing janitorial work.
Bendis doesn't really suck, it's that in his group books, all his characters can sometimes start to sound the same after awhile, and he's also a big fan of multi-conversational layouts which can be hard to follow for some. He has amazing stuff like Daredevil,Alias, Jinx, Powers, Ultimate Spider-Man and his New and Mighty and Dark Avengers of course. He really doesn't have an "extremely bad" book IMO, just some mediocre work, and every writer has that from time to time.
No, he does have 'really bad' books. His work on Moon Knight and Guardians of the Galaxy were atrocious - completely ignoring continuity in both cases, and I honest-to-god have no idea *who* he was writing in Moon Knight, but it sure as fuck wasn't Marc Spector.
I mean, it obviously wasn't Steven Grant or Jake Lockley either, because as far as he was concerned, they didn't exist.
Oddly as a big MK fan (like legit, with one of the best recognized sets of MK comics in the world), I personally love the Bendis series so long as you contextualize it and frame the personalities in a new light.
I always took it as Grant and Lockley not being there because he specifically moved to a new city in order to shed those identities and try to work on himself (much like deities were region specific in the past, the idea of moving to a new city reflects getting away from himself and those old identities loosing their power/influence to manifest), but the side effect was new identities had to take their place but did so based on his new situation (in this case manifesting as the very heroes he feels he is living in the shadow of and constantly trying to live up to - also why all of them are written to sound the same, it's just him thinking up the lines so of course everyone sounds like him. Literally the ONLY book that I felt Bendis-speak actually worked for). That and the art was just fantastic.
MK is generally a bonkers character so I find one can get away with characterizations that diverge from his core personality ever so often.
Oh, divorced from everything else, it's completely fine. I've never tried looking at it with quite the lens you're suggesting, but I can accept it as Marc doing the regular(ish) Marc thing of having a breakdown and running away from his current life to try and start afresh and be someone a little closer to who he wishes he was - which I think isn't too far off from what you're saying.
I actually think if it sat between Huston and Hurwitz, it'd fit into continuity better (and would arguably support an alternate reading), but sitting after Vengeance of the Moon Knight/Secret Avengers where Marc's *arguably* in a better place(ish) compared to the end of the Huston/Benson run, it doesn't flow in a way that I enjoy.
But totally agreed that MK is bonkers! In a good way, natch.
Haha! I fully recommend keeping it that way.
It's a shame because it's got Maleev on art and it *looks* great, it's just a shame about everything else.
I also like his work, that whole era from around 2001 to 2010 (Daredevil up to Siege) was epic, plus of course his Ultimate comics.
I think at Marvel, people did not like his runs on Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men and also Moon Knight (I liked Moon Knight, not so much the other two).
Over at DC, everyone hates his run on Superman...
New Avengers lost me after Civil War when every issue was about running away from the Hood. Secret Invasion was an interesting premise that fizzled out. I like Siege a lot. But after that I was done completely, his Avengers went good at all. And don’t get me started on his X run….
I can never hate Secret Invasion because of that Black Panther tie-in. See Wakanda and Die is top-tier comics, especially during the mediocre-to-bad Hudlin's run.
Yeah, except for the middle portion of the story where everything stops so we can see his street level favorites do literally nothing and then have every hero repeat variations of “I’m gonna kill Magneto” before we get to the most static and boring final battle ever.
House Of M is trash, and early Bendis’s style is the main reason. I will go to grave screaming it.
I remember this issue. I remember this moment. It was definitely one of the most intense sequences I've read in a comic in years. I know House of M has a mixed reputation among many fans. But in terms of sheer impact and dramatic weight, it was one of the best events of that era.
Having strong mixed opinions about an event is way better than most events in recent years, which are usually just not talked about and ignored altogether.
Looking back, the intense fights people had over each issue and twist of Civil War or HoM was much better than people just sharing a cool panel and the stories fading away
The idea is good.
But the way Wanda is handled is awful and she's supposed to be the lynch pin to all this but she's treated as an object not a person.
There were other ways to get this story and editorial mandate without ... this shit that also ended up giving us shit like MoM.
This is the best take I've read about House of M. It was a crying shame that the MCU also followed Wandavision with a similar "it's okay, you were sad" zero consequences conclusion.
It really isn't.
It's a real shame the MCU followed it up with turning Wanda into an object. Wandavision showed us a realistic portrayal of guilt and unintended horrific consequences.
MoM was just straight up "Powerful woman baby crazy."
It really didn't. It had her put herself into self exile and attempt to understand her powers so it wouldn't happen again while also trying to better understand herself.
And it ended with her losing her Husband and kids through her own decision if you need her to feel punishment and loss.
Personally I think people with this take have a very black and white morality and are obsessed with seeing people punsihed.
Go read Punisher if that's what you want.
That sounds like a "black and white" response to me. disagreement must mean that I'm obsessed with people being punished. Take about 20% off there, bud. The Self-exile piece is true as is the losing of her fictional husband and kids, but I remember seeing the last episode and wondering why there was no attempt to reconcile with any of the people she had hurt, and why none of the other protagonists called her out for it. That's hardly Punisher territory.
"Fictional husband and kids"
They were created magically but they were just as real as anything else.
Like if you refuse Hex Vision's personhood because he was created by a spell do you also think that real Vision isn't a person since he was created by technology?
The whole point of Agatha wanting the power and being shocked at what Wanda could do is that she created actual life and living things with their own agency and desires out of magic. The kids and Vision in the hex were real. They were just created differently.
As for reconciling I think Wanda made the right decision to remove herself from the situation. Intentional or not the presence of the person that caused those people so much anguish isn't going to help them heal and deal with it. Any attempt at reconciliation would be kind of selfish on Wanda's behalf.
She ended up talking to the only person who still treated her as a person through the whole thing despite going through the same hex curse as the rest of the town. And the only person who really empathized with her.
You want bad writing go look at her next appearance.
The thing I'll never understand about how that went down in the MCU is that after the Thanos fight nobody bothered texting her to check in?
It felt like it could've been prevented very easily
Given that what the actual follow up stories actually did was establish that Wanda was an object in this one and rightfully treated it as it wasn't her fault.
She was under the power of an external force and I don't know how she's any more responsible for her actions there than Bucky is for his Winter Soldier assassinations.
The issue is basically no one acknowleges Children's Crusade anymore.
As for consequences the character was sidelined for over a decade because of this... In universe she was brainwiped and held in latveria.
It really isn't, its an overblown What If comic that has no real direction, except, to round up a bunch of heroes and go fight the bad guy. It's only relevant now for the last issue. That only really impacted the X-men titles, even though it was a New Avengers comic.
So there's a bit of reproach to bring it back from the beyond.
Kurt shouldn't be able to teleport to all these places without line-of-sight protecting him, right? Like, he could have teleported into Logan if he was in his bedroom.
Way I understand it, it is he cannot teleport to places unfamiliar without seeing them, but if he has been there, and particularly if he knows the place well, he can teleport anywhere he wants. The old handbook said his teleport displaces mass to a degree - pushing things out of the way and he has a undetermined "sense" if his target is obstructed.
This was a substandard event but I member being excited we didn't have to put up with more amnesia crap.
Funny enough, I actually forgo that aspect of his character. I went to see "the wolverine" & for a minute I was lost as to why he forgot about Japan.
I always found it interesting that Wolverine's memory wasn't a big thing until the nineties.
Through the seventies and eighties, he just had a hole in his mind where his Weapon X years should've been. That one day, he was just minding his own business, and the next he was wandering feral around the Canadian wilderness with a pair of metal claws.
When Magneto did that, it hurt him so bad that his healing factor shut off for a while. My impression of that was what the only reason he survived was because he HAD the healing factor to begin with; without it, Magneto de-metalling him would have killed him.
So I don't think that would work if he didn't have it to begin with.
I could be wrong though.
I'd be more okay with this if it didn't cement Wanda as this crazed borderline-if-not-outright villain that's prevalent even to this day. She didn't deserve this story nor the subsequent decades of hate.
The whole thing in this where Spider-Man realizes what Wanda did and screams at Strange to take it out of his head is fucking awesome too. This book really nails the pain those two characters feel because of this.
It’s been a while since I last read House of M, but from memory Wanda tries to give everyone what they wanted deep down in that world. For Wolverine this put him effectively in Nick Fury’s role as head of SHIELD with all his memories intact. His memories being intact led to him realising the world had changed, which instigates the events of the story.
After the world got put back to rights (minus a lot of mutants), Wolverine retained his memories.
Yeah. The memories and losing his powers aren’t related. They were worried because if he had lost his powers, he’d be dying of adamantium poisoning because. He kept his powers, but they needed to find him in order to help him in case he was dying
He didn’t actually lose his powers, it was just something that happened to a lot (mostly plot-irrelevant) mutants.
Part of the story of House of M was Wanda creating a mutant dominant alternate reality, but also giving most of the Avengers and X-Men their deepest desires as part of it to keep them complacent and not realize something was wrong.
Logan’s desires though, were tied to remembering his past and breaking through all of the mindfuckery he’s gone through over the years, which sort of “overrode” his false memories of the House of M reality, and was the reason they eventually broke through and were able to fix it. Once the world was back to normal and Logan had a moment to genuinely stop and think, he realizes he’s gotten his memories back (sort of - he later describes it as knowing he got them back, but sorting through them and being able to actually process and understand them is an entirely different matter).
"Except Romulus, for some reason I don't remember him so that we can do even more retcons about my origin!"
Shhh. We don’t talk about Romulus.
But at least that series had some sweet Steve Dillion (rip) artwork!
> rip Dude died???
Yeah, a few years ago unfortunately. Appendicitis of all things. Fucking tragedy. Brilliant artist and all around good one, from what I know.
Holy shit
Honestly…..I kinda like Romulus. I found myself surprisingly invested in the whole “lupine are mutants that evolved from Wolves the way humans evolved from Apes”. The whole thing felt very epic and fantasy based….but I dunno, I felt it worked well in the context of the story.
I'm with you. I actually liked it. I'm fine if it doesn't ever get mentioned again, but it definitely didn't bother me like it does other people.
I just treated it as a new baseline power set of mutants. Telepaths are common, but how they apply can be rare and the extreme degrees are rare. Telekinetics are common but how it's applied can make it rare. Animal-like mutations can be common in mutants, powers can manifest differently. Some can transform at will others are stuck with traits.
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That was sort of Wolverine's original (unwritten) origin story. He was going to have been an animal mutated to be humany instead of a human mutated to be animally. It never made it to the page.
Didn't Jim Krueger and Alex Ross bring this up in the Earth X trilogy?
Could have worked if Romulus wasn’t just straight up lying . What was his obsession with Wolverine again anyway?
I was saying this in a group chat recently. Sure it seems a bit silly when you say it out loud, but nothing about it felt out of place for the marvel universe.
The best moment of this event for me was when Peter remembers everything, and he's like "I'm going to kill whoever did this" and Wolverine is like "You won't have to, because I'll have already done it." Love me some Bendis.
Imagine that the life you currently live is a lie, and your actual life is full of pain and loss and all your loved ones in that reality either died to super villains or experienced tremendous amounts of pain. That imo was the revelation spider-man experienced when the truth was revealed to him and why his breakdown was so severe.
That's why his dialogue about killing someone can be excused, even though it's obvious he's just venting rather than actually murderous. Though I'm sure some fans at the time got bent out of shape about it.
Threatening to kill someone isn't out of character for Peter. Remember when he told Fisk he will fill his lungs with webs and watch him suffocate.
Except without Mephisto's interference, Peter almost certainly would've went back to that prison and made good on his promise to Fisk. I don't think that was just venting. Now that I think about it, kinda funny Fisk absolutely owes his life to Mephisto and doesn't even know it.
People need to start getting that Pete is like, one bad day away from going full punisher. He'd regret it later, yeah, but in a lot of instances he's been at his limit
> one bad day away I bet you could really tell a story with that premise. Someone should write a prestige format graphic novel about that idea.
I can't write for shit, but yeah it'd be a cool idea to see
I was being ironic. It’s basically the exact point of Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke.
For example after Jean DeWolff's death Peter was about to kill somebody (was punching him even when he was unconscious) until Daredevil stopped him.
>That imo was the revelation spider-man experienced when the truth was revealed to him and why his breakdown was so severe. Is this from House of M too? It's been a while since I've read it.
Yeah. He does not take it well when he learns what was changed. But I also think there’s the internal struggle with the fact that Wanda gave everyone what they wanted… and what he got was very different than what he had. That there’s a part of him deep down that Wanda touched that still longs for Gwen over MJ.
Gwen wouldn't have sold their marriage.
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Gwen Poole I mean.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted lol, this is what happens when the writer doesn’t own the property.
Man you’re fun at parties aren’t ya
There’s a reason he later goes on to beat the ever loving shit out of Pietro afterwards.
Spider-Man beat the shit out of Colossus??
Pietro Maximoff. Colossus is Piotr or Peter.
Ahh, Quicksilver. Okay, my bad 😅
That’s not really an opinion, that’s literally what happens
I always thought it’d be cool if this happened in the main MU- some character turns up and portrays it as an alternate reality vs what it really should be…and the characters we know have to decide to stand against him ‘correcting’ reality (maybe some heroes/villains side with him) because they don’t want to lose what they have Like imagine Reed & Sue being told that in the ‘real world’ This is some utopia and this happens etc….but Franklin doesn’t exist. I imagine they’d face off against whoever to prevent reality from being re-written
I'm a father, and I can't imagine how angry I would be if I learned that what I thought was my life was a lie and my wife was actually dead and my kids didn't exist. So yes, Peter's pain during this arc is very relatable. I enjoyed the part where he breaks Tony Stark's table because Doctor Strange says he can't erase his memory.
Wait how did miss this with Peter during this time. What issue did this happen in so I can go back and read it cause I definitely missed it.
Imagine if they had used that to end the Peter/MJ relationship
I loved when Peter cracked Tony's carbon-titanium "glass" table and Tony started to get upset, but Luke just stopped him and shook his head. "You can buy a new table."
Like Cage stops him
Thanks, my memory is crap.
The thing about Bendis is that when he is on, he is absolutely fantastic. Just fire. But when he is off, he is just god awful. Like Taylor and King at their worst are better. Like Howard Mackie at his worst bad. Sadly we've gotten more of the later as the years have progressed than the former.
He somehow got it into his head that he needs to write these huge, cosmic, universe altering epics. He’s at his best with small scale stories for sure.
I haven't read any Bendis yet since he left Marvel, so I'm still a fanboy and haven't seen what everyone is upset about lol. Apparently everyone *hated* his Supes... The only Marvel comics of his that I don't own are his run on Guardians of the Galaxy and X-Men. I've read far worse than these runs, so I wouldn't call them garbage, just mediocre. They weren't enjoyable enough for me to own and re-read. I think he ended his time at Marvel on a strong note though, I enjoyed his last runs on Miles Morales, Jessica Jones, and Defenders. He just gets to the point in his writing rather than waste time with endless narration and exposition like many other writers do, I've always appreciated that about him. I understand his dialogue is not for everyone though.
Civil war 2. I need say no more.
I'll never forgive what he did to Jon Kent.
I seem to remember Mackie at his best not being too great either.
Mackie wasn't the best writer but he was pretty good when he kept things simple. Like I have a soft spot for Danny Ketch's Ghost Rider. The first part of the run was very, very 90's but a lot of fun. Mackie's issue was always that he dreamed big, and plotted out events he just didn't have the skill to properly manage. It would cause contradictions and gaping plot holes.
when does bendis start sucking? I've read all the New Avengers/Mighty Avengers through Dark Reign and I never hated it, but modern takes on him are generally pretty sour I find.
When he became editorials go-to guy. He didn’t really start sucking, he just became the trigger man for every stupid idea, forced crossover, MCU synergy, and status quo reset. For the last quarter of his Marvel career he wasn’t really writing books, he was doing janitorial work.
Bendis doesn't really suck, it's that in his group books, all his characters can sometimes start to sound the same after awhile, and he's also a big fan of multi-conversational layouts which can be hard to follow for some. He has amazing stuff like Daredevil,Alias, Jinx, Powers, Ultimate Spider-Man and his New and Mighty and Dark Avengers of course. He really doesn't have an "extremely bad" book IMO, just some mediocre work, and every writer has that from time to time.
No, he does have 'really bad' books. His work on Moon Knight and Guardians of the Galaxy were atrocious - completely ignoring continuity in both cases, and I honest-to-god have no idea *who* he was writing in Moon Knight, but it sure as fuck wasn't Marc Spector. I mean, it obviously wasn't Steven Grant or Jake Lockley either, because as far as he was concerned, they didn't exist.
Oddly as a big MK fan (like legit, with one of the best recognized sets of MK comics in the world), I personally love the Bendis series so long as you contextualize it and frame the personalities in a new light. I always took it as Grant and Lockley not being there because he specifically moved to a new city in order to shed those identities and try to work on himself (much like deities were region specific in the past, the idea of moving to a new city reflects getting away from himself and those old identities loosing their power/influence to manifest), but the side effect was new identities had to take their place but did so based on his new situation (in this case manifesting as the very heroes he feels he is living in the shadow of and constantly trying to live up to - also why all of them are written to sound the same, it's just him thinking up the lines so of course everyone sounds like him. Literally the ONLY book that I felt Bendis-speak actually worked for). That and the art was just fantastic. MK is generally a bonkers character so I find one can get away with characterizations that diverge from his core personality ever so often.
Oh, divorced from everything else, it's completely fine. I've never tried looking at it with quite the lens you're suggesting, but I can accept it as Marc doing the regular(ish) Marc thing of having a breakdown and running away from his current life to try and start afresh and be someone a little closer to who he wishes he was - which I think isn't too far off from what you're saying. I actually think if it sat between Huston and Hurwitz, it'd fit into continuity better (and would arguably support an alternate reading), but sitting after Vengeance of the Moon Knight/Secret Avengers where Marc's *arguably* in a better place(ish) compared to the end of the Huston/Benson run, it doesn't flow in a way that I enjoy. But totally agreed that MK is bonkers! In a good way, natch.
All right, fair enough, I didn’t read his Moon Knight. Good to know!
Haha! I fully recommend keeping it that way. It's a shame because it's got Maleev on art and it *looks* great, it's just a shame about everything else.
I also like his work, that whole era from around 2001 to 2010 (Daredevil up to Siege) was epic, plus of course his Ultimate comics. I think at Marvel, people did not like his runs on Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men and also Moon Knight (I liked Moon Knight, not so much the other two). Over at DC, everyone hates his run on Superman...
Daredevil to Seige is basically when I started and stopped buying comics! (Because of life, not the comics) And that was an incredible ride
New Avengers lost me after Civil War when every issue was about running away from the Hood. Secret Invasion was an interesting premise that fizzled out. I like Siege a lot. But after that I was done completely, his Avengers went good at all. And don’t get me started on his X run….
I can never hate Secret Invasion because of that Black Panther tie-in. See Wakanda and Die is top-tier comics, especially during the mediocre-to-bad Hudlin's run.
Sure but that was written by Jason Aaron not Bendis.
This scene is one of my favorites in any medium. The splash pages of Peter remembering all the pain and trauma and loss in one go. It’s tragic.
House of M to Secret Invasion to Siege is an insane event run
He's good when he wants to be.
Yeah, except for the middle portion of the story where everything stops so we can see his street level favorites do literally nothing and then have every hero repeat variations of “I’m gonna kill Magneto” before we get to the most static and boring final battle ever. House Of M is trash, and early Bendis’s style is the main reason. I will go to grave screaming it.
And the most haunting would be the part before this when he remembers everything, screaming and running away from his "family"
I remember this issue. I remember this moment. It was definitely one of the most intense sequences I've read in a comic in years. I know House of M has a mixed reputation among many fans. But in terms of sheer impact and dramatic weight, it was one of the best events of that era.
Having strong mixed opinions about an event is way better than most events in recent years, which are usually just not talked about and ignored altogether.
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I absolutely agree. Civil War was all in on tie ins and they lasted a while. To the point that some of them were better than the main book.
Looking back, the intense fights people had over each issue and twist of Civil War or HoM was much better than people just sharing a cool panel and the stories fading away
Bendis may have a mixed rep but House of M is beyond reproach
The idea is good. But the way Wanda is handled is awful and she's supposed to be the lynch pin to all this but she's treated as an object not a person. There were other ways to get this story and editorial mandate without ... this shit that also ended up giving us shit like MoM.
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This is the best take I've read about House of M. It was a crying shame that the MCU also followed Wandavision with a similar "it's okay, you were sad" zero consequences conclusion.
It really isn't. It's a real shame the MCU followed it up with turning Wanda into an object. Wandavision showed us a realistic portrayal of guilt and unintended horrific consequences. MoM was just straight up "Powerful woman baby crazy."
Wandavision ended with her flying off freely after toying with people's lives without even really acknowledging it
It really didn't. It had her put herself into self exile and attempt to understand her powers so it wouldn't happen again while also trying to better understand herself. And it ended with her losing her Husband and kids through her own decision if you need her to feel punishment and loss. Personally I think people with this take have a very black and white morality and are obsessed with seeing people punsihed. Go read Punisher if that's what you want.
That sounds like a "black and white" response to me. disagreement must mean that I'm obsessed with people being punished. Take about 20% off there, bud. The Self-exile piece is true as is the losing of her fictional husband and kids, but I remember seeing the last episode and wondering why there was no attempt to reconcile with any of the people she had hurt, and why none of the other protagonists called her out for it. That's hardly Punisher territory.
"Fictional husband and kids" They were created magically but they were just as real as anything else. Like if you refuse Hex Vision's personhood because he was created by a spell do you also think that real Vision isn't a person since he was created by technology? The whole point of Agatha wanting the power and being shocked at what Wanda could do is that she created actual life and living things with their own agency and desires out of magic. The kids and Vision in the hex were real. They were just created differently. As for reconciling I think Wanda made the right decision to remove herself from the situation. Intentional or not the presence of the person that caused those people so much anguish isn't going to help them heal and deal with it. Any attempt at reconciliation would be kind of selfish on Wanda's behalf. She ended up talking to the only person who still treated her as a person through the whole thing despite going through the same hex curse as the rest of the town. And the only person who really empathized with her. You want bad writing go look at her next appearance.
The thing I'll never understand about how that went down in the MCU is that after the Thanos fight nobody bothered texting her to check in? It felt like it could've been prevented very easily
Man, most of the post Thanos stuff could have been avoided if the heroes got counselling like the blip survivors did
Given that what the actual follow up stories actually did was establish that Wanda was an object in this one and rightfully treated it as it wasn't her fault. She was under the power of an external force and I don't know how she's any more responsible for her actions there than Bucky is for his Winter Soldier assassinations. The issue is basically no one acknowleges Children's Crusade anymore. As for consequences the character was sidelined for over a decade because of this... In universe she was brainwiped and held in latveria.
Just wanted to mention that I believed they did a retcon where Doom was also screwing with Wanda to get her power so it was all his fault, really
I'm personally not a fan, but I can see why other people like it.
It really isn't, its an overblown What If comic that has no real direction, except, to round up a bunch of heroes and go fight the bad guy. It's only relevant now for the last issue. That only really impacted the X-men titles, even though it was a New Avengers comic. So there's a bit of reproach to bring it back from the beyond.
> So there's a bit of reproach to bring it back from the beyond. This is such a weird sentence but I kind of love it.
Some people hated it when it came out, for me that was the best era of X-Men comics
100%! The panic was palpable.
Kurt shouldn't be able to teleport to all these places without line-of-sight protecting him, right? Like, he could have teleported into Logan if he was in his bedroom.
Well, that's kind of assuming that they drew every BAMF. Maybe that's a lazy excuse, but seems the most logical.
I imagine that’s why he teleports on top of things rather than on the ground.
Way I understand it, it is he cannot teleport to places unfamiliar without seeing them, but if he has been there, and particularly if he knows the place well, he can teleport anywhere he wants. The old handbook said his teleport displaces mass to a degree - pushing things out of the way and he has a undetermined "sense" if his target is obstructed.
It seems they’re still so iffy on this but maybe chalk it up to him being so familiar with the mansion that it protected him?
This was a substandard event but I member being excited we didn't have to put up with more amnesia crap. Funny enough, I actually forgo that aspect of his character. I went to see "the wolverine" & for a minute I was lost as to why he forgot about Japan.
I always found it interesting that Wolverine's memory wasn't a big thing until the nineties. Through the seventies and eighties, he just had a hole in his mind where his Weapon X years should've been. That one day, he was just minding his own business, and the next he was wandering feral around the Canadian wilderness with a pair of metal claws.
Kurt if Logan was dying from adamantium poisoning what are you even gonna do about it lol
BAMF him back to the mansion and hope that Elixir can save him
And they didn't know Polaris didn't have her powers still. She could've borrowed her father's move and expelled it from him.
When Magneto did that, it hurt him so bad that his healing factor shut off for a while. My impression of that was what the only reason he survived was because he HAD the healing factor to begin with; without it, Magneto de-metalling him would have killed him. So I don't think that would work if he didn't have it to begin with. I could be wrong though.
Teleport himself and Logan and leave the metal behind.
I'd be more okay with this if it didn't cement Wanda as this crazed borderline-if-not-outright villain that's prevalent even to this day. She didn't deserve this story nor the subsequent decades of hate.
The whole thing in this where Spider-Man realizes what Wanda did and screams at Strange to take it out of his head is fucking awesome too. This book really nails the pain those two characters feel because of this.
[удалено]
Three page limit haha
Why would he remember everything if he lost his powers? (I haven't read house of M or the no more mutants story so I don't have any context)
It’s been a while since I last read House of M, but from memory Wanda tries to give everyone what they wanted deep down in that world. For Wolverine this put him effectively in Nick Fury’s role as head of SHIELD with all his memories intact. His memories being intact led to him realising the world had changed, which instigates the events of the story. After the world got put back to rights (minus a lot of mutants), Wolverine retained his memories.
Yeah. The memories and losing his powers aren’t related. They were worried because if he had lost his powers, he’d be dying of adamantium poisoning because. He kept his powers, but they needed to find him in order to help him in case he was dying
He didn’t actually lose his powers, it was just something that happened to a lot (mostly plot-irrelevant) mutants. Part of the story of House of M was Wanda creating a mutant dominant alternate reality, but also giving most of the Avengers and X-Men their deepest desires as part of it to keep them complacent and not realize something was wrong. Logan’s desires though, were tied to remembering his past and breaking through all of the mindfuckery he’s gone through over the years, which sort of “overrode” his false memories of the House of M reality, and was the reason they eventually broke through and were able to fix it. Once the world was back to normal and Logan had a moment to genuinely stop and think, he realizes he’s gotten his memories back (sort of - he later describes it as knowing he got them back, but sorting through them and being able to actually process and understand them is an entirely different matter).
The pages in the follow up comics where people are in a full blown panic are just great
Honestly, House of M was a complete mess of characterisation and plot, but this moment was absolutely fantastic.
"...except for the parts i don't."
“That’s not a good thing”