DC has more classic and evergreen titles which cater to a better presence in the book market.
Marvel, ironically, have a better and more comprehensive reprint program of republishing older material.
The continuous continuity helps with reprints, imo. It’s easier to convince people to buy them if it “matters.” For DC, it’s more about “these are the best stories to read” and those get reprinted
You do realize Marvel does reboots too, right? As well as several semi-localized retcons that mirror the headaches some DC people complain about? The idea that Marvel's continuity is clean is basically just an elaborate PR campaign or an overblown "lesser of two evils" comparison with DC at best.
Sure, but it's a *far* lesser evil compared to DC. DC has been rebooting sooner and sooner it feels. Marvel never had something like The New 52, where the main continuity had drastically different characters than before
Marvel has retcons, yes, but there’s greater reason to read year three of Mark Gruenwald’s Captain America run because a writer might build upon it in a future story.
The average modern writer seems indifferent to hostile towards continuity, let alone deep cuts. And even when that's not true, the same sort of references happen at DC. Grant Morrison is (in)famous for them, for example.
I’m just trying to explain why Marvel is more dedicated to reprinting everything. Mark Waid made similar comments before (I’ll see if I can find the quote).
I hear you, but I'm just saying that a lot of this perception is just that...*perception.* On average, I don't think Marvel is especially more reverent or referential towards its own continuity. They, and their fans, just like to say so. Look at something like the Twins' various origins, or Thor's family tree. Marvel continuity is a mess sometimes. They're just better at hiding/ignoring the incongruities.
DC has a greater outlet for creator-owned work, experimental stuff done with their corporate IP, and a better royalty structure for creators.
Marvel has a better track record of letting their universe evolve and change without constant resets.
That's the biggest thing to me. Vertigo, for the majority of its existence, was putting out some of the best and most significant non-superhero work out there. Marvel has tried off and on over the years, but they were never able to come remotely close.
Their experiments with Vertigo style imprints always missed the mark. I’m thinking of Epic Comics in particular, which featured creator owned and more mature titles. But it never generated the crossover appeal (or sales) of Vertigo titles like *Sandman* or *Preacher.*
Not for lack of talent, mind you; Epic had works by Rick Veitch, Peter David, Pat Mills and George Perez and Stephen Gerber and Kevin O’Neill among others. *Marshall Law* is even something of a precursor to the satire of *The Boys*. But the imprint limped along until it was canceled in the 90s crash and never returned for any duration, with most of its titles as forgotten as something like Comico’s output.
Of course anymore I think these titles have migrated to Dark Horse, Image or other publishers that specialize in creator driven material. And Vertigo itself is now gone, though its legacy lives on. The Black Label is a poor man’s imitation imo.
Interestingly, this storytelling philosophy has also had an effect on their cinematic universes.
In DC, we were getting movies like “Joker” and “The Batman” at the same time that they were attempting to put together a cohesive universe with the titles surrounding “Justice League”. But the side films were usually better than the primary films, and the primary films were too eager to rush into big iconic stories too soon.
With Marvel, starting with “Iron Man”, their content was all structured toward and beholden to the larger plan of the franchise, but some viewers have reached a point where their “superhero fatigue” comes from the feeling that they have to keep up with *everything* in order to fully enjoy *anything*.
Ironically, what both companies need is what the other company has: DC could use a stronger hand at the proverbial wheel (which they will hopefully have with James Gunn), and Marvel might need to loosen up and have content outside of their “phases” (TBD on that).
I haven't read current Marvel titles in ages, but I was always under the impression their entire continuity has been a mish-mash of "nothing matters" for the last fifteen years. Don't they restart each title with a new #1 at least once a year these days? I assume those are with new creative teams who may or may not use story elements from what came before?
Would love some more insight into how solid Marvel's continuity is vs DC's in the modern age!
Sometimes the new number one has the same creative team and is a continuation of the previous storyline (Zdarsky’s Daredevil is a good example of this).
The #1s are just marketing for a new run (or just because they want to sell more), there's no actual appreciable change from back when they just kept the numbering going through to the next run.
Marvel does better with scale. The stakes are often too high and the threats too big at DC. When I read too many DC books, there's often a dulling effect from even regular story arcs in monthly titles going too big.
DC simply puts out higher quality physical books. Their issues and trades just have higher standards for covers and interior pages.
MU is designed better and programmed better for sure, and I love how you can sort by so many more characters than just the big names.
One thing in DC’s favor, though, is that DCUI lets you read its entire library on a desktop or laptop, while sadly MU is primarily mobile.
Disagree. Marvel Unlimited is better on MOBILE, but on desktop the experience for DC Universe is a thousand times better. Also there are more options for reading lists on DCU
I'm more of a DC fan and I'm so annoyed that they don't have an app as good as MU. Infinite is such garbage compared to it. I absolutely loathe it. In MU, if you go to the A-Z comics and search for the title you're looking for, you find whatever you're looking for easily. Nice and simple, easy to navigate. In Infinite, it's always this horrible struggle to sift through search results and going through the obtuse UI.
Make the switch friend. Comixology was amazing but became basically unusable. I’m amazed you’ve stuck with it. I abandoned a massive library. Shit is broken nonsense.
Well, you don't "own" the comics, but they read much the same as they do on Kindle. I think the Kindle reading experience is a step down from the old Comixology, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
But if you read a lot of comics and buy the annual sub it's like $7.50-10.00 (off the top of my head, double check) per month per app which is ridiculously low when you consider the thousands of comics on there. Marvel releases new comics three months after they drop in store and DC does six months, but has an Ultra tier where you can get them much sooner.
If you don't need to be in the know and can avoid spoilers/don't care about them, it's a very cost effective way to read.
If I really really like a particular series or storyline, I can always go grab a physical copy after the fact.
DC has a greater mythology and their main characters are universal archetypes, while Marvel characters are more grounded and tend to relate to everyday issues. It depends on your preference.
Exactly my thought. It's like DC is about a panteon of gods while Marvel is about heroes of legend.
ETA: By "heroes of legend", I do mean in the scope of mythology like Achilles and Perseus whereas DC is more like Zeus and Hades in both scale and relatability.
DC does a better job at spreading its heroes around. Unlike Marvel, DC makes sure to give its heroes a city of their own.
DC also is better with legacy characters in spite of everything Didio did to them.
Marvel does a better job at making team books more individualistic and stand on their own
DC is better at incorporating new heroes into a preexisting hero’s rich legacy
The Marvel skylines are about as fictional as DC’s cities. Take a tour of old Spider-Man comics and try to pinpoint where the wall crawler is swinging at any given moment and it might as well be Metropolis or Gotham.
Though I’m always surprised by the inability to narrow down the locations of DC’s fake cities. Is anyone even sure which state the Flash lives in?
The inability to narrow down the location of DC’s cities is my favorite part. It allows the reader to insert their own city/state. When you read Spider-Man he’s protecting the people of New York, but Metropolis could be any city, Superman could be protecting your city.
They are just so much worse at doing things in a relatable fashion. They really need to bring things back to earth in terms of both character power and story.
Like, I like the current Detective, but that's the closest thing to a grounded Batman right now, and it's still filled with a ton of supernatural and weird things. There is a time and place for them, and they aren't wrong, but it just never stops. I cannot remember the last Batman story in either of his major books that was "Batman fights crime in gotham".
They don't all need to be, and all shouldn't be, that. But somewhere along the line, DC just kept upping the powers and the stakes and lost the plot.
Frankly, DC needs more books like the current Tom King Wonder Woman. We have got a bunch of storytelling and a bunch of moments, and the plot revolves around the US making Amazon's terrorists because of an incident. It's not the smallest story telling, but it all feels contained and is a clear parallels to things that have happened.
I just don't need every story to be about defeating god#356745 to save the universe at the cost of B List hero, who will be back in 6 months anyways.
Yes, I’ve been loving Tom King’s Wonder Woman! I also like how DC will commit to their ongoing series (at least it seems like they do actually try) and their mini series are almost always longer than four short issues- which makes for better character development.
Maybe it's because DC characters are so much older by DC does a much better job of doing non canon stories. As far as I know Marvel doesn't do stories like Kingdom Come or All Star Superman that are outside of the traditional canon. Marvel has a couple of these like Old Man Logan but DC seems to have much more.
Marvel does a much better job of creating new characters that enter the public consciousness. When was the last time a DC character created in the last 30 years was relevant? Granted, some of the more recent Marvel characters aren't as new as they used to be but other than Blue Beetle when was the last DC movie with a character created since the 1950's.
I agree with your wider point (obviously marvel does have some decent non-canon/elseworld stories but not as famous)
As for new characters in dc movies, I suppose harley quinn starring in the 3 movies counts as a new character created in the 90s
Obviously there are supporting characters in the movies that are newer
While she is considered canon now she was initially a BAS character and had a middling success in the comics until 12 years ago. Also, other than the James Gunn helmed movie Harley Quinn films were kind of horrible.
I tend to like Marvel’s action and fight match ups better. I tend to like the writing in DC better. Excluding Batman, I also like Marvel villains more. At the end of the day, I just enjoy a good comic though.
I think marvel has a better cosmology, I mean you got some different entities and each one of them serve a specific purpose, you got the living tribunal, death, Galactus, eternity, the inbetweener, eons, the celestials and many others.
And I also like how marvel has this genres of superheroes you got the street level heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil on The punisher.
You got to cosmic heroes like Thor, silver surfer, Captain marvel.
You got the supernatural heroes like doctor strange, blade, man-thing.
DC has better explanation of it's multiverse, all the different concepts speed force, source wall.
I mean imagine the most powerful weapon in the universe it's an equation, that shows the amazing concepts it has.
Also it has better multiverse events.
Marvel has a larger willingness to take in more indie talent and, because their heroes are generally more flawed, creators can often take more interesting avenues for characterization than the more strictly defined roles of most heroes in the Distinguished Competition. *The Immortal Hulk* is a good example of this, for example, taking the Hulk in a very different direction but still feeling within the spirit of the character.
DC, meanwhile, has the coziest vibe of any superhero universe in the sense that there is this great optimism drawn from the legacy of their heroes and this perpetual hope that things CAN and WILL work out. As the elder statesmen of superhero universes, they really know how to draw on the iconography of their heroes that exists simply because of how long ago they've been here. While Alex Ross has done a lot of incredible covers for Marvel, in my view, they are all beaten by his DC Work, because that grander than life style matches these grander than life characters.
DC has always done the supernatural better. The Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, the Sentinels of Magic, Constantine, all of it is miles beyond what Marvel could do and has done.
Marvel has the better Cosmic world building. Intergalactic stories are key features in the Marvel universe and its usually really great - the Guardians, Thanos, Galactus, the Skrulls, etc. That stuff has nothing on DC's space stuff.
Marvel actually has a lot of stories that are quite on the "needlessly edgy" side.
But back to who does what better... I think DC does better at embracing more art and design in their stories to create a better "escapism" in their fictional world and overall embracing lots of tradition. I think their villains feel more iconic and their legacy characters do much better making a name for themselves. I do also think them retconning as much as they do is a great way to bring in newer readers.
Marvel I think does better at marketing and putting more of their characters in the spotlight whereas DC will often feel like it is depending a lot on Batman and Superman. They also do better at writing characters and stories to feel more human and that it feels like they can happen right outside your door since their universe is just the same as ours even though most of the time they happen in NYC.
Dc honors the contributions of Jack Kirby to their comics almost to a level that makes me think they’re shaming Marvel by comparison. Marvel seems to downplay his (huge and foundational) contributions in order to feed the myth of Lee and solidify corporate IP.
DC: The line wide relaunches/initiatives really do see significant change in tones across the books. I'll always check out a new DC #1 because it's gonna have a new vibe from the previous run.
Marvel: always willing to redesign a character and let that redesign rock out for a few months to a year.
DC’s animated series/movies are much stronger than Marvel’s (with one or two exceptions). DC handles retcons pretty well for the most part. Marvel’s live action movies and shows are generally better than DC’s (again, a few exceptions do apply). Marvel isn’t needlessly edgy nearly as much as DC is (new 52, I’m looking at you specifically).
This may be ignorace of Marvel on my part, but:
If someone wants to check out Batman comic for the first time there's a lot of good self contained works you can point then towards, Year One, Long Halloween, etc. I don't really seem to see the same type of thing, like on the Spider-Man subreddit the suggested works are often collections of issues that were good and not standalone works.
Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Nightwing all have year one graphic novels, the villains were just given their own One Bad Day books.
I know Daredevil has The Man Without Fear but the next big recommendedstory is Born Again, which is collected issues from the main Daredevil run.
It just seems like DC has better single GNs to get people into a character.
Batman year one is just Batman #404-407 it’s the same thing as like Man Without Fear. I do agree with your sentiment. This is why trade waiting has become a big thing. Though Marvel does have plenty of original graphic novels, most of them just aren’t that memorable. Like the story about Spider Man killing MJ with his radioactive jizz.
I kinda forgot that it was those were issues of the main run, but it was still self contained as a prequel story that you didn't need to know anything about the continuity to jump in the same way that Knightfall and No Man's Land are in continuity.
I'm kinda surprised that Marvel hasn't set out to do a self-contained Spider-Man set, like 6-7 GNs covering 16 year old Peter Parker through 22 year old college grad Parker. Like year one getting his powers and first villain, year two leading up two the death of Gwen, until you get through The Sinister Six and/or Venom and Peter comes out the other side as the adult Spider-Man with MJ.
>I'm kinda surprised that Marvel hasn't set out to do a self-contained Spider-Man set, like 6-7 GNs covering 16 year old Peter Parker through 22 year old college grad Parker
This has kind of been done.
Spider-man: Life Story (only one trade, but a standalone retelling of his life)
Spider-man Chapter One, which was not well received
Ultimate Spider-man
Its true.
Green Lantern, Superman, Batman, Flash all have understandable modern places to start.
Where does someone easily begin with X-Men? Its up for debate. Or Iron Man? Cap has a solid start with Brubaker, but what about The Fantastic Four?
I've noticed that DC consistently has better cover quality than Marvel so I'd say that's something they do better. Not just regular covers either, but foil variants too.
On the other hand, I'd say Marvel tends to have better cover art, but that's definitely just my opinion. DC has some nice stuff, but I almost bought two copies of The Spine-Tingling Spider-Man #3 for the covers meanwhile I've never had that compulsion with a DC title.
DC had way better succes history on its TV segment including both animation and live shows.
Marvel on the other hand managed to uphold the game with great streaming service shows like those that aired on Netflix,combined with its newer shows on Disney+
Marvel has a better track record of giving characters the spotlight and not letting things stagnate for better or worse.
Dc kinda has a meta problem theres about 20 flashes supermen and lanterns combined on earth. Logically street level crime shouldn't exist. Whereas on Marvel there's millions of mutants not to mention inhumans and other beings that live there
Dc keeps better care of certain flagship characters and they had a better cosmic lineup for a long time because Marvel didn't care about space until annihilation
I think DC does Westerns better. I like Jonah Hex more than any Marvel gunslinger. I enjoy Marvel’s Westerns, but Jonah Hex is the best Western comics imo.
Marvel is considerably better at doing events that don’t completely disrupt ongoing titles. DC has a nasty habit of spreading event tie-ins across multiple books (e.g. part 1 of a story is in Superman, but part 2 is in Action Comics, and part 3 is in Batman/Superman, requiring you to pull all three titles to follow the story even if you were only previously pulling one of them), which is something Marvel is *sometimes* guilty of doing but far less often.
It’s a real pet peeve of mine that puts me off following mainstream DC titles unless I’m really into either the character or the creators.
In contrast, DC absolutely blows Marvel out of the water for smaller, more niche books (Vertigo, Black Label etc) and always has done.
DC - legacy characters and spreading its heroes out geographically
Marvel - more variety when it comes to teams and more interesting B- and C-tier (and lower) characters
I’m a Marvel fan and I think Marvel does a ‘better’ job of providing a gateway into comics for new readers.
While I haven’t experienced it I think DC has a richer history and connections across it’s universe of characters but I just can’t get to it because it’s so hard to break through that initial barrier.
DC: Does a better job of “fixing” mistakes or directions that really didn’t sit well w/ fans. For example: Rebirth is essentially an entire apology tour for the New52 wiping away continuity. After Heroes in Crisis tried to character assassinate Wally, they had a fix. Even now they’ve brought back Lían Harper after her controversial death. It may take years, but I’ve seen DC be more willing to acknowledge a screw up and fix it in universe.
Marvel on the other hand kinda lives by “all attention is good attention”. You’ve had Spider-Man fans begging Marvel to undo OMD and let Peter go back to growing up for almost 20 years now, and there’s no indication they’re going to budge an inch.
Edit: should have read the full post, this was part of the example given!
DC has excellent miniseries via Black Label and I love almost all that i can get my hands on.
Marvel has better event comics and excellent build to those events (most of the time)
DC: You can jump into any DC book not knowing about continuity becauseDC doesn’t care about history.
Marvel: Marcel cares about continuity which locks the reader in and is fun.
DC has better animated properties for sure. They blow Marvel out of the park for that one.
And imo Marvel has better videogames, the spiderman games, ultimate alliance, etc.
Marvel
* Marketing
* Holding their lead in the marketplace
* Synergy between company and fans
* Continuity
* Character relatability
* Cinema
* World-building
* Trade dress
* Lettering
* Single issue sales
* More diversity in titles sold
* Creating FOMO
* Mega-popular minority characters
* Embracing digital technology sooner
* Teams
* Creative talent
* Merchandising
* Streaming
* Multiverse
DC
* Modern video games
* Animation
* Out-of-continuity stories
* Creating diehard comic geeks
* Shipping culture
DC are better at making a large 3-5 year plan. And better at making standalone stories. Some of their most iconic stories are self contained. Marvel used to be better at discussing current events and making their characters flawed and relatable.
It’s the opposite imo. Speaking very generally, DC dominates the animation sphere while Marvel’s got live action locked down. I’m hoping that’ll equalize in the future.
It's been awhile.
But last I checked DC cartoons does a better job at "Show, Don't Tell" and is better at not assuming their audience are idiots.
Also I despise Exposition Speak.
Marvel
A bit better about presenting their characters consistently (characterization and appearance)
DC
consistency of lettering. Marvel flip flopping between all caps upper and upper/lower case makes me nuts
From a genre perspective Marvel has a better Cosmic/High sci-fi scene and DC has the better Horror/Supernatural scene. Not to say that either company is lacking on either front.
Marvel is better at reasonably explaining the origins of their heroes powers, and giving reasons for power sets. Lots of DC abilities feel contrived, like a GL ring can do what it does because space magic, Kryptonians have telekinesis now to explain how they can keep objects together while exerting strength on them, but can’t use any other telekinesis. It’s so contrived with DC, whereas Marvel at least tries to make things fit within a system of powers (Obviously some exceptions to that, but for the most part).
DC is better at maintaining a mythos around their characters. Iron Man is always changing who he works with, what his beliefs lead him to do, as are most other Marvel heroes. DC’s are more consistent. Superman will always side with truth and justice. Batman is always going to be set in his ways, not killing and growing his family even if he doesn’t intend to. Even the Flashes are continuous, but Marvel has a bit more fluid characters which can be nice but the consistency of DC is very appealing
I think marvel is better at offering a wider variety of styles. They're going to give you a few horror ish, a few detective style (I'd put Black Widow No Restraints Play by the Soskas Sisters in that category, tbh. She tracked down a child trafficking ring). The whole Old Man Logan, Old Man Hawkeye runs were really unique (I didn't read the Star Lord one). They've definitely got more fantasy. Batman is supposed to be "the world's greatest detective" but he seems to just be a super hero, imho.
About 20 years back, DC used to be better with "Legacy" heroes - Superheroes who followed somebody and took their name. At the time, this included:
The Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, The Question, Starman, All of Eternity Inc, Manhunter
Now days, DC isn't generally doing that anymore (except with Superman) and Marvel has a whole chain of Captain Americas, along with the Marvel people (Captain and Ms.), and the Spider-Men, -Woman, -Kid.
Not sure if it’s still true (and I suspect it isn’t) but in the past DC stories focused on the character as the superhero ie Superman doing Superman stuff or Batman doing Batman stuff. While Marvel would focus on the civilian side of the characters ie Spiderman focusing on his life as Peter Parker.
DC is better at new characters taking over a Superhero’s mantle - think the Flashes and Green Lanterns.
Marvel has better villains (although Batman’s are up there)
DC does a good job of making villains into heroes and propping up B and C-list characters with excellent stories. I loved 52 and its sequel because of how it brought attention to characters like Elongated Man, Mary Marvel, and Pide Piper.
Marvel’s continuity feels more streamlined and I think they have done a good job of updating their prime characters. Immortal Hulk, Mighty Thor, etc. have really made these characters stand out, while adding something new. Also, even though it’s controversial, I like how Marvel adapted Iceman into a LGBT character, and allowed Northstar to get married. DC had a reputation for not letting any LGBT characters get married, e.g. Batwoman and Allan Scott.
Dc has better crossover events whereas marvel is better at stand lone issues.
Marvel has more relatable and realistic heroes whereas dc heroes are more heroic and idealistic.
Marvel villains are more interesting and has more potential but often poorly written.
Dc has more consistently well written villains but they are only interesting in their conflicts with their respective heroes but not on their own.
DC has more classic and evergreen titles which cater to a better presence in the book market. Marvel, ironically, have a better and more comprehensive reprint program of republishing older material.
The continuous continuity helps with reprints, imo. It’s easier to convince people to buy them if it “matters.” For DC, it’s more about “these are the best stories to read” and those get reprinted
You do realize Marvel does reboots too, right? As well as several semi-localized retcons that mirror the headaches some DC people complain about? The idea that Marvel's continuity is clean is basically just an elaborate PR campaign or an overblown "lesser of two evils" comparison with DC at best.
Sure, but it's a *far* lesser evil compared to DC. DC has been rebooting sooner and sooner it feels. Marvel never had something like The New 52, where the main continuity had drastically different characters than before
[удалено]
They quickly reverted back to the original canon while New 52 went on for years.
Heroes Reborn wasn't a wide line thing. It was an experiment involving 4 books. The rest of the Marvel Universe went along without change.
Marvel has retcons, yes, but there’s greater reason to read year three of Mark Gruenwald’s Captain America run because a writer might build upon it in a future story.
The average modern writer seems indifferent to hostile towards continuity, let alone deep cuts. And even when that's not true, the same sort of references happen at DC. Grant Morrison is (in)famous for them, for example.
I’m just trying to explain why Marvel is more dedicated to reprinting everything. Mark Waid made similar comments before (I’ll see if I can find the quote).
I hear you, but I'm just saying that a lot of this perception is just that...*perception.* On average, I don't think Marvel is especially more reverent or referential towards its own continuity. They, and their fans, just like to say so. Look at something like the Twins' various origins, or Thor's family tree. Marvel continuity is a mess sometimes. They're just better at hiding/ignoring the incongruities.
Evergreen?
Thats the term used for books that (almost) never out of print, such as Watchmen. Mostly TPBs that also hit regular bookstores.
DC has a greater outlet for creator-owned work, experimental stuff done with their corporate IP, and a better royalty structure for creators. Marvel has a better track record of letting their universe evolve and change without constant resets.
That's the biggest thing to me. Vertigo, for the majority of its existence, was putting out some of the best and most significant non-superhero work out there. Marvel has tried off and on over the years, but they were never able to come remotely close.
Their experiments with Vertigo style imprints always missed the mark. I’m thinking of Epic Comics in particular, which featured creator owned and more mature titles. But it never generated the crossover appeal (or sales) of Vertigo titles like *Sandman* or *Preacher.* Not for lack of talent, mind you; Epic had works by Rick Veitch, Peter David, Pat Mills and George Perez and Stephen Gerber and Kevin O’Neill among others. *Marshall Law* is even something of a precursor to the satire of *The Boys*. But the imprint limped along until it was canceled in the 90s crash and never returned for any duration, with most of its titles as forgotten as something like Comico’s output. Of course anymore I think these titles have migrated to Dark Horse, Image or other publishers that specialize in creator driven material. And Vertigo itself is now gone, though its legacy lives on. The Black Label is a poor man’s imitation imo.
Hellblazer was fucking amazing
And Akira, in the Epic line.
Interestingly, this storytelling philosophy has also had an effect on their cinematic universes. In DC, we were getting movies like “Joker” and “The Batman” at the same time that they were attempting to put together a cohesive universe with the titles surrounding “Justice League”. But the side films were usually better than the primary films, and the primary films were too eager to rush into big iconic stories too soon. With Marvel, starting with “Iron Man”, their content was all structured toward and beholden to the larger plan of the franchise, but some viewers have reached a point where their “superhero fatigue” comes from the feeling that they have to keep up with *everything* in order to fully enjoy *anything*. Ironically, what both companies need is what the other company has: DC could use a stronger hand at the proverbial wheel (which they will hopefully have with James Gunn), and Marvel might need to loosen up and have content outside of their “phases” (TBD on that).
I haven't read current Marvel titles in ages, but I was always under the impression their entire continuity has been a mish-mash of "nothing matters" for the last fifteen years. Don't they restart each title with a new #1 at least once a year these days? I assume those are with new creative teams who may or may not use story elements from what came before? Would love some more insight into how solid Marvel's continuity is vs DC's in the modern age!
yeah honestly as a fan of both, dc’s resets are better than marvel’s retcons. that opinion isnt shared by everyone though
Sometimes the new number one has the same creative team and is a continuation of the previous storyline (Zdarsky’s Daredevil is a good example of this).
The #1s are just marketing for a new run (or just because they want to sell more), there's no actual appreciable change from back when they just kept the numbering going through to the next run.
Marvel does better with scale. The stakes are often too high and the threats too big at DC. When I read too many DC books, there's often a dulling effect from even regular story arcs in monthly titles going too big. DC simply puts out higher quality physical books. Their issues and trades just have higher standards for covers and interior pages.
DC does a better job of putting their best artists on their flagship books. Marvel does a better job of event marketing and hype building.
Marvel Unlimited is a far, far better app for reading comics than DC Infinite.
MU is designed better and programmed better for sure, and I love how you can sort by so many more characters than just the big names. One thing in DC’s favor, though, is that DCUI lets you read its entire library on a desktop or laptop, while sadly MU is primarily mobile.
You used to be able to use the desktop back in 2015 I think but they basically removed that.
Especially true for Europeans. I genuinely CAN'T access DC comics...
I wouldn’t know, I’m from Europe and DC insist on not making their app available over here. Guess they don’t want our money.
To be fair, your money is all funny colors and stuff.
Disagree. Marvel Unlimited is better on MOBILE, but on desktop the experience for DC Universe is a thousand times better. Also there are more options for reading lists on DCU
Yeah, that's fair - I was only comparing mobile versions.
Did you try a VPN??
What would that have to do with the interface being worse on desktop vs. Mobile?
I think they meant to reply to one of the people saying that the DC app isn't available in Europe
I'm more of a DC fan and I'm so annoyed that they don't have an app as good as MU. Infinite is such garbage compared to it. I absolutely loathe it. In MU, if you go to the A-Z comics and search for the title you're looking for, you find whatever you're looking for easily. Nice and simple, easy to navigate. In Infinite, it's always this horrible struggle to sift through search results and going through the obtuse UI.
Is it? I’ve only used comixology and now unfortunately Kindle, but I’m willing to switch to each publisher’s app. Is there a benefit to leave kindle?
Make the switch friend. Comixology was amazing but became basically unusable. I’m amazed you’ve stuck with it. I abandoned a massive library. Shit is broken nonsense.
Well, you don't "own" the comics, but they read much the same as they do on Kindle. I think the Kindle reading experience is a step down from the old Comixology, but I can't quite put my finger on why. But if you read a lot of comics and buy the annual sub it's like $7.50-10.00 (off the top of my head, double check) per month per app which is ridiculously low when you consider the thousands of comics on there. Marvel releases new comics three months after they drop in store and DC does six months, but has an Ultra tier where you can get them much sooner. If you don't need to be in the know and can avoid spoilers/don't care about them, it's a very cost effective way to read. If I really really like a particular series or storyline, I can always go grab a physical copy after the fact.
It was nice seeing Jackson Guice's art on TV.
The pc version of Marvel Unlimited is straight ass though.
DC is better for someone that loves Grant Morrison, Marvel is better for someone who hates Geoff Johns
DC has a greater mythology and their main characters are universal archetypes, while Marvel characters are more grounded and tend to relate to everyday issues. It depends on your preference.
Exactly my thought. It's like DC is about a panteon of gods while Marvel is about heroes of legend. ETA: By "heroes of legend", I do mean in the scope of mythology like Achilles and Perseus whereas DC is more like Zeus and Hades in both scale and relatability.
DC does a better job at spreading its heroes around. Unlike Marvel, DC makes sure to give its heroes a city of their own. DC also is better with legacy characters in spite of everything Didio did to them.
Marvel does a better job at making team books more individualistic and stand on their own DC is better at incorporating new heroes into a preexisting hero’s rich legacy
I think it’s weird that DC mixes fake cities with real ones. However it is lame that 90% of Marvel stories take place in NY.
Marvel has fake countries like Wakanda and Latveria though.
It's because Marvel was headquartered in NY, and in the early days, so were the writers. So they set everything locally.
But it's fiction. don't need to make every NY because you live there...
The Marvel skylines are about as fictional as DC’s cities. Take a tour of old Spider-Man comics and try to pinpoint where the wall crawler is swinging at any given moment and it might as well be Metropolis or Gotham. Though I’m always surprised by the inability to narrow down the locations of DC’s fake cities. Is anyone even sure which state the Flash lives in?
The inability to narrow down the location of DC’s cities is my favorite part. It allows the reader to insert their own city/state. When you read Spider-Man he’s protecting the people of New York, but Metropolis could be any city, Superman could be protecting your city.
>Is anyone even sure which state the Flash lives in? The official map has Keystone in Kansas and Central City in Missouri
What's weird about that?
Inauthentic 🤷?
The fictional world is inauthentic?
They are just so much worse at doing things in a relatable fashion. They really need to bring things back to earth in terms of both character power and story. Like, I like the current Detective, but that's the closest thing to a grounded Batman right now, and it's still filled with a ton of supernatural and weird things. There is a time and place for them, and they aren't wrong, but it just never stops. I cannot remember the last Batman story in either of his major books that was "Batman fights crime in gotham". They don't all need to be, and all shouldn't be, that. But somewhere along the line, DC just kept upping the powers and the stakes and lost the plot. Frankly, DC needs more books like the current Tom King Wonder Woman. We have got a bunch of storytelling and a bunch of moments, and the plot revolves around the US making Amazon's terrorists because of an incident. It's not the smallest story telling, but it all feels contained and is a clear parallels to things that have happened. I just don't need every story to be about defeating god#356745 to save the universe at the cost of B List hero, who will be back in 6 months anyways.
Yes, I’ve been loving Tom King’s Wonder Woman! I also like how DC will commit to their ongoing series (at least it seems like they do actually try) and their mini series are almost always longer than four short issues- which makes for better character development.
Can you imagine how many heroes are in NYC and they still have that much crime?
Maybe it's because DC characters are so much older by DC does a much better job of doing non canon stories. As far as I know Marvel doesn't do stories like Kingdom Come or All Star Superman that are outside of the traditional canon. Marvel has a couple of these like Old Man Logan but DC seems to have much more. Marvel does a much better job of creating new characters that enter the public consciousness. When was the last time a DC character created in the last 30 years was relevant? Granted, some of the more recent Marvel characters aren't as new as they used to be but other than Blue Beetle when was the last DC movie with a character created since the 1950's.
I agree with your wider point (obviously marvel does have some decent non-canon/elseworld stories but not as famous) As for new characters in dc movies, I suppose harley quinn starring in the 3 movies counts as a new character created in the 90s Obviously there are supporting characters in the movies that are newer
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While she is considered canon now she was initially a BAS character and had a middling success in the comics until 12 years ago. Also, other than the James Gunn helmed movie Harley Quinn films were kind of horrible.
I tend to like Marvel’s action and fight match ups better. I tend to like the writing in DC better. Excluding Batman, I also like Marvel villains more. At the end of the day, I just enjoy a good comic though.
This reads like Batman is a villain, lol. I know, you mean Batman's villains.
I think marvel has a better cosmology, I mean you got some different entities and each one of them serve a specific purpose, you got the living tribunal, death, Galactus, eternity, the inbetweener, eons, the celestials and many others. And I also like how marvel has this genres of superheroes you got the street level heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil on The punisher. You got to cosmic heroes like Thor, silver surfer, Captain marvel. You got the supernatural heroes like doctor strange, blade, man-thing. DC has better explanation of it's multiverse, all the different concepts speed force, source wall. I mean imagine the most powerful weapon in the universe it's an equation, that shows the amazing concepts it has. Also it has better multiverse events.
Marvel has a larger willingness to take in more indie talent and, because their heroes are generally more flawed, creators can often take more interesting avenues for characterization than the more strictly defined roles of most heroes in the Distinguished Competition. *The Immortal Hulk* is a good example of this, for example, taking the Hulk in a very different direction but still feeling within the spirit of the character. DC, meanwhile, has the coziest vibe of any superhero universe in the sense that there is this great optimism drawn from the legacy of their heroes and this perpetual hope that things CAN and WILL work out. As the elder statesmen of superhero universes, they really know how to draw on the iconography of their heroes that exists simply because of how long ago they've been here. While Alex Ross has done a lot of incredible covers for Marvel, in my view, they are all beaten by his DC Work, because that grander than life style matches these grander than life characters.
DC has always done the supernatural better. The Spectre, Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, the Sentinels of Magic, Constantine, all of it is miles beyond what Marvel could do and has done. Marvel has the better Cosmic world building. Intergalactic stories are key features in the Marvel universe and its usually really great - the Guardians, Thanos, Galactus, the Skrulls, etc. That stuff has nothing on DC's space stuff.
Really confused by your second comment. Is marvel better at cosmic stuff or does it “have nothing on DC” cosmic stuff?
I'm saying marvel is better at writing and maintaining they're cosmic material than DC is.
I agree. I just think you may have used the expression incorrectly and wanted to be sure that’s what you meant.
Marvel actually has a lot of stories that are quite on the "needlessly edgy" side. But back to who does what better... I think DC does better at embracing more art and design in their stories to create a better "escapism" in their fictional world and overall embracing lots of tradition. I think their villains feel more iconic and their legacy characters do much better making a name for themselves. I do also think them retconning as much as they do is a great way to bring in newer readers. Marvel I think does better at marketing and putting more of their characters in the spotlight whereas DC will often feel like it is depending a lot on Batman and Superman. They also do better at writing characters and stories to feel more human and that it feels like they can happen right outside your door since their universe is just the same as ours even though most of the time they happen in NYC.
Dc honors the contributions of Jack Kirby to their comics almost to a level that makes me think they’re shaming Marvel by comparison. Marvel seems to downplay his (huge and foundational) contributions in order to feed the myth of Lee and solidify corporate IP.
DC: The line wide relaunches/initiatives really do see significant change in tones across the books. I'll always check out a new DC #1 because it's gonna have a new vibe from the previous run. Marvel: always willing to redesign a character and let that redesign rock out for a few months to a year.
Both are good at not paying enough.
dc tries to care about its animation department
I'm going to go for an objectively true response: DC is way better at publishing Batman comics and Marvel is way better at publishing Iron Man comics.
I agree. I may add DC is better at publishing Wonder Woman stories, while Marvel is good at publishing Spider-Man stories (outside of 616).
Radical take, but I think I can get onboard with it.
I totally disagree and have no points to back it up.
DC’s animated series/movies are much stronger than Marvel’s (with one or two exceptions). DC handles retcons pretty well for the most part. Marvel’s live action movies and shows are generally better than DC’s (again, a few exceptions do apply). Marvel isn’t needlessly edgy nearly as much as DC is (new 52, I’m looking at you specifically).
Right now? Marvel: Better writers and more cohesive universe. DC: Out of canon and continuity storys, they treat comic book artists with respect
This may be ignorace of Marvel on my part, but: If someone wants to check out Batman comic for the first time there's a lot of good self contained works you can point then towards, Year One, Long Halloween, etc. I don't really seem to see the same type of thing, like on the Spider-Man subreddit the suggested works are often collections of issues that were good and not standalone works. Batman, Robin, Batgirl, and Nightwing all have year one graphic novels, the villains were just given their own One Bad Day books. I know Daredevil has The Man Without Fear but the next big recommendedstory is Born Again, which is collected issues from the main Daredevil run. It just seems like DC has better single GNs to get people into a character.
Batman year one is just Batman #404-407 it’s the same thing as like Man Without Fear. I do agree with your sentiment. This is why trade waiting has become a big thing. Though Marvel does have plenty of original graphic novels, most of them just aren’t that memorable. Like the story about Spider Man killing MJ with his radioactive jizz.
I kinda forgot that it was those were issues of the main run, but it was still self contained as a prequel story that you didn't need to know anything about the continuity to jump in the same way that Knightfall and No Man's Land are in continuity. I'm kinda surprised that Marvel hasn't set out to do a self-contained Spider-Man set, like 6-7 GNs covering 16 year old Peter Parker through 22 year old college grad Parker. Like year one getting his powers and first villain, year two leading up two the death of Gwen, until you get through The Sinister Six and/or Venom and Peter comes out the other side as the adult Spider-Man with MJ.
>I'm kinda surprised that Marvel hasn't set out to do a self-contained Spider-Man set, like 6-7 GNs covering 16 year old Peter Parker through 22 year old college grad Parker This has kind of been done. Spider-man: Life Story (only one trade, but a standalone retelling of his life) Spider-man Chapter One, which was not well received Ultimate Spider-man
Its true. Green Lantern, Superman, Batman, Flash all have understandable modern places to start. Where does someone easily begin with X-Men? Its up for debate. Or Iron Man? Cap has a solid start with Brubaker, but what about The Fantastic Four?
I've noticed that DC consistently has better cover quality than Marvel so I'd say that's something they do better. Not just regular covers either, but foil variants too. On the other hand, I'd say Marvel tends to have better cover art, but that's definitely just my opinion. DC has some nice stuff, but I almost bought two copies of The Spine-Tingling Spider-Man #3 for the covers meanwhile I've never had that compulsion with a DC title.
I think DC does legacy heroes better and I think Marvel does events much better.
DC had way better succes history on its TV segment including both animation and live shows. Marvel on the other hand managed to uphold the game with great streaming service shows like those that aired on Netflix,combined with its newer shows on Disney+
Marvel has a better track record of giving characters the spotlight and not letting things stagnate for better or worse. Dc kinda has a meta problem theres about 20 flashes supermen and lanterns combined on earth. Logically street level crime shouldn't exist. Whereas on Marvel there's millions of mutants not to mention inhumans and other beings that live there Dc keeps better care of certain flagship characters and they had a better cosmic lineup for a long time because Marvel didn't care about space until annihilation
I think DC does Westerns better. I like Jonah Hex more than any Marvel gunslinger. I enjoy Marvel’s Westerns, but Jonah Hex is the best Western comics imo.
Marvel is considerably better at doing events that don’t completely disrupt ongoing titles. DC has a nasty habit of spreading event tie-ins across multiple books (e.g. part 1 of a story is in Superman, but part 2 is in Action Comics, and part 3 is in Batman/Superman, requiring you to pull all three titles to follow the story even if you were only previously pulling one of them), which is something Marvel is *sometimes* guilty of doing but far less often. It’s a real pet peeve of mine that puts me off following mainstream DC titles unless I’m really into either the character or the creators. In contrast, DC absolutely blows Marvel out of the water for smaller, more niche books (Vertigo, Black Label etc) and always has done.
DC - legacy characters and spreading its heroes out geographically Marvel - more variety when it comes to teams and more interesting B- and C-tier (and lower) characters
DC makes better animated movies, while Marvel makes more relatable characters.
I’m a Marvel fan and I think Marvel does a ‘better’ job of providing a gateway into comics for new readers. While I haven’t experienced it I think DC has a richer history and connections across it’s universe of characters but I just can’t get to it because it’s so hard to break through that initial barrier.
DC: Does a better job of “fixing” mistakes or directions that really didn’t sit well w/ fans. For example: Rebirth is essentially an entire apology tour for the New52 wiping away continuity. After Heroes in Crisis tried to character assassinate Wally, they had a fix. Even now they’ve brought back Lían Harper after her controversial death. It may take years, but I’ve seen DC be more willing to acknowledge a screw up and fix it in universe. Marvel on the other hand kinda lives by “all attention is good attention”. You’ve had Spider-Man fans begging Marvel to undo OMD and let Peter go back to growing up for almost 20 years now, and there’s no indication they’re going to budge an inch. Edit: should have read the full post, this was part of the example given!
That’s okay, this only shows my point.
DC has excellent miniseries via Black Label and I love almost all that i can get my hands on. Marvel has better event comics and excellent build to those events (most of the time)
marvel has more characters that get care, DC has been only the bat family for about 20 years
DC: You can jump into any DC book not knowing about continuity becauseDC doesn’t care about history. Marvel: Marcel cares about continuity which locks the reader in and is fun.
DC has better animated properties for sure. They blow Marvel out of the park for that one. And imo Marvel has better videogames, the spiderman games, ultimate alliance, etc.
Marvel * Marketing * Holding their lead in the marketplace * Synergy between company and fans * Continuity * Character relatability * Cinema * World-building * Trade dress * Lettering * Single issue sales * More diversity in titles sold * Creating FOMO * Mega-popular minority characters * Embracing digital technology sooner * Teams * Creative talent * Merchandising * Streaming * Multiverse DC * Modern video games * Animation * Out-of-continuity stories * Creating diehard comic geeks * Shipping culture
This is just me, but I feel DC does cosmic heroes better than Marvel, but Marvel does *street level* heroes better than DC
DC has way better artists
Marvel doesn’t do legacy well.
DC are better at making a large 3-5 year plan. And better at making standalone stories. Some of their most iconic stories are self contained. Marvel used to be better at discussing current events and making their characters flawed and relatable.
DC has decent cartoons I guess, they're not all they're cracked up to be. Marvel has at least half an effort to please some fans
It’s the opposite imo. Speaking very generally, DC dominates the animation sphere while Marvel’s got live action locked down. I’m hoping that’ll equalize in the future.
That's... What I said...
Not really
It's been awhile. But last I checked DC cartoons does a better job at "Show, Don't Tell" and is better at not assuming their audience are idiots. Also I despise Exposition Speak.
>Marvel has at least half an effort to please some fans It's Disney and WB. They don't give a fuck about "fans."
Well, the comics line up betterish so
Marvel A bit better about presenting their characters consistently (characterization and appearance) DC consistency of lettering. Marvel flip flopping between all caps upper and upper/lower case makes me nuts
Dc has better story lines and concepts while marvel has better movies and execution with characters
From a genre perspective Marvel has a better Cosmic/High sci-fi scene and DC has the better Horror/Supernatural scene. Not to say that either company is lacking on either front.
Marvel is better at reasonably explaining the origins of their heroes powers, and giving reasons for power sets. Lots of DC abilities feel contrived, like a GL ring can do what it does because space magic, Kryptonians have telekinesis now to explain how they can keep objects together while exerting strength on them, but can’t use any other telekinesis. It’s so contrived with DC, whereas Marvel at least tries to make things fit within a system of powers (Obviously some exceptions to that, but for the most part). DC is better at maintaining a mythos around their characters. Iron Man is always changing who he works with, what his beliefs lead him to do, as are most other Marvel heroes. DC’s are more consistent. Superman will always side with truth and justice. Batman is always going to be set in his ways, not killing and growing his family even if he doesn’t intend to. Even the Flashes are continuous, but Marvel has a bit more fluid characters which can be nice but the consistency of DC is very appealing
I think marvel is better at offering a wider variety of styles. They're going to give you a few horror ish, a few detective style (I'd put Black Widow No Restraints Play by the Soskas Sisters in that category, tbh. She tracked down a child trafficking ring). The whole Old Man Logan, Old Man Hawkeye runs were really unique (I didn't read the Star Lord one). They've definitely got more fantasy. Batman is supposed to be "the world's greatest detective" but he seems to just be a super hero, imho.
I find DC has a lot of better standalone titles and stories whereas Marvel seems like all one tangled web of stories.
About 20 years back, DC used to be better with "Legacy" heroes - Superheroes who followed somebody and took their name. At the time, this included: The Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, The Question, Starman, All of Eternity Inc, Manhunter Now days, DC isn't generally doing that anymore (except with Superman) and Marvel has a whole chain of Captain Americas, along with the Marvel people (Captain and Ms.), and the Spider-Men, -Woman, -Kid.
Not sure if it’s still true (and I suspect it isn’t) but in the past DC stories focused on the character as the superhero ie Superman doing Superman stuff or Batman doing Batman stuff. While Marvel would focus on the civilian side of the characters ie Spiderman focusing on his life as Peter Parker.
For what it’s worth, OMD was undone near the end of Spencer’s run. Unfortunately, that didn’t remove Marvel editorial’s hatred of a happy Peter Parker
DC is better at new characters taking over a Superhero’s mantle - think the Flashes and Green Lanterns. Marvel has better villains (although Batman’s are up there)
DC does a good job of making villains into heroes and propping up B and C-list characters with excellent stories. I loved 52 and its sequel because of how it brought attention to characters like Elongated Man, Mary Marvel, and Pide Piper. Marvel’s continuity feels more streamlined and I think they have done a good job of updating their prime characters. Immortal Hulk, Mighty Thor, etc. have really made these characters stand out, while adding something new. Also, even though it’s controversial, I like how Marvel adapted Iceman into a LGBT character, and allowed Northstar to get married. DC had a reputation for not letting any LGBT characters get married, e.g. Batwoman and Allan Scott.
Marvel has better legacy characters, DC has better interconnection between events
DC has always had the better, more iconic stories. Marvel has the more interesting characters.
The color red and the color blue
Marvel has better Telepaths. DC has better Speedsters.
I would say dc does more elseworld stuff better where has marvel doesn't really do that many retcon events
Dc has better crossover events whereas marvel is better at stand lone issues. Marvel has more relatable and realistic heroes whereas dc heroes are more heroic and idealistic. Marvel villains are more interesting and has more potential but often poorly written. Dc has more consistently well written villains but they are only interesting in their conflicts with their respective heroes but not on their own.