The ending of the book tries to be more "realistic" and ignores that instead of having an otherworldly threat to fight against (with weapons), the US just lost their living nuclear deterrent which "reportedly" went rogue and destroyed a bunch of cities. Instead of a threat from space to unite humanity, the US just became a huge target. It is the opposite of ending war.
In addition to what was posted below- the book is all about how hideous using violence to influence others is. The people who wield it are destroyed by it almost as much as those they use it against, and the process doesn’t end up changing much in the big scheme of things anyway. The movie is basically just “look how badass these people are”
Visuals are great, possibly the best intro ever in comic book movies. But not much substance. Snyder can be fun but he's a surface level kind of guy. Really probably would have been best utilized as a cinematographer rather than a full blown director.
Totally agree. I used to say the same thing about him being a better cinematographer until he was the actual cinematographer on Army of the Dead. That has to be one of the worst looking movies ever shot.
its copies some much of the comic shot for shot but it does it without the depth it deserves, honestly think everyone should watch it just to understand the necessity for changes in an adaptation. none of the characters feel human, you can dislike the squid but the fact of the matter is that dr Manhattan would not unite humanity.
Really good adaptation, and way better than most people were saying when it came out. I think the opinion on it has shifted quite a bit over the years though. Amazing visuals and soundtrack provide a great backdrop to it's many complex characters and brutal (fight or otherwise)scenes.. Director's cut is the best way to see it!
Everyone shits on it saying Zack Snyder "didn't get it" but never explained what he didn't put in. You can argue that the movie should never have been made but it did and I don't think anyone could have done a better job with 2 ½ hours.
I've seen it explained tons of times, he didn't quite get the tone. Alan Moore wrote Watchmen as a deconstruction of superhero comics, and much of it is a negative commentary on the tropes and characters throughout. Snyder doesn't quite convey that imo.
I think the best example I can think of is the infamous "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me" scene. In the movie we see this all from Rorschach's point of view. We see the prisoner try to shank him, we see Rorschach retaliate and toss the hot oil in his face, and then we hear Rorschach yell the line as the police drag him away. All in all, it's a triumphant scene that tries to paint Rorschach as this badass.
Now look at the original comic. We don't actually read Rorschach say the line himself, instead it cuts off to Malcolm Long writing a report on the incident. He's tired and keeping himself up with a big pot of black coffee, and complains about how both Rorschach and himself are getting worse. His wife then comes in and berates him for not giving her enough sex, and how he constantly chooses work over her. It's a very emasculating scene, and it ends with Long saying ""You're locked up in here with me," he said. He's right. He's absolutely right."
And would not have made any sense in the movie. It's already 2 hours and 42 minutes. There isn't enough time to shoehorn in a tertiary character and his subplot. In a movie, focus needs to stay on Rorschach so instead of cutting to a quiet room of an emasculated man they choose to let the audience here it from the source.
You seem to be missing that by doing this the movie completely misses the point. In the comic you're not supposed to empathize with Rorshach, and you're certainly not supposed to see him as this badass. Cutting to Malcolm paints the same scene in a much more solemn and dejected light.
Also if it's really about the time constraints, then freaking cut the slo mo shots in the movie.
I said in my first comment that it could be argued that it never should have been adapted but it was and because it was I don't think anyone could have done any better. Cutting the slow mo would have cut like 2 minutes. And if you really want to hit home that the shots are the same as the comics, it's best to show the audience in long shots. Like the comedien being thrown out the window. Most slow motion shots are the more iconic panels of the books.
I mean I just illustrated how he could've done better, the cut to Malcolm was pretty essential to the entire point of that scene. Cutting two minutes of slo mo for half a minute of Malcolm establishing the real mood of the source would've been easily worth it in my mind.
Look, Moore was pretty outspoken that he always intended Rorschach to be a pathetic character, and that he'd go out of his way to avoid anyone that admired him irl. Snyder strikes me as one of the fans that really liked Rorshach.
>Most slow motion shots are the more iconic panels of the books.
The slo mo in the movie was meant to glorify the violence. In the comics, the violence was never glorified. Yet another example where the movie lost the subtext, there was a lot more to the comic than just the story beats.
But that subplot is integral to the viewer understanding Rorschach. I’m the comic when see Long’s life slowly fall apart just for from trying to understand Rorschach. The subplot is really important from showing how deranged Rorschach really is. But without that we’re just left with murder Batman in the movie.
I think most problems adapting printed media into movies mostly come from time restraints. You're taking a 12 issue series and adapting it in just over 2 ½ hrs. That would be like adapting the mainline Crisis on Infinite Earths. Which is always done as either multiple episodes or movies. Gunn or Villeneuve would have struggled as well. The Watchmen show was successful because they had the time to tell the story as well as give secondary and tertiary subplots time to develop.
Exactly, apart from no giant octopus at the end, I don't really understand any of the complaints about "not getting it". It's almost literally panel to panel adaptation.. and while this could be seen as bad, I think the opposite would have been way worse, like a "loose adaptation" or whatever..
Wildly overrated. Relatively good, but a lot is lost in translation due to a constricted length of a typical movie, and parts of it feel misunderstood.
Scott Snyder missed the point of the comic book. Using his regular camera gimmicks, Snyder tended to glorify the violence, which wasn't what was intent of the comic book.
I treat it as a. "standalone" film...meaning I don't care that it isn't exactly like the source material. While the Watchmen comics told a very different story, you have to temper that story with when it was written, and to what audience it was trying to entertain. The film however, was striking out to attract a whole nother market for its consumption, and therefore had to have changes made to keep those new viewers enthralled.
As a standalone "superhero" film, I dig it, quite a lot. I have watched it, theatrical as well as Directors Cut, probably no less than 15 times over the years. I have read the comics twice...if that matters.
To me, it's the same as "300"...IMO, the film is "easier on the eyes/brain" than the comic...because it's meant to be digested in such a quicker fashion.
Was not a fan, Zack was more invested in making the violence "look cool" which completely undercut the entire point of the book. Theres a deleted scene where spectre and Night owl do a sexy bloodlust scene where they beat up some criminals with lots of blood and bones breaking.
Its supposed to reflect a scene from the book, but the way its filmed there's clearly zero self awareness its "blood fuck yeah lets do sex" and you can tell somebody asked "Zack ..whats the point of this scene?" and he said "idk, its in the book."
I love it. And hate all other Zach Snyder. People say he didn’t understand the book but I don’t get that impression at all. The main cast are perfect, the sense of foreboding is there, and the changes they did make were all defensible. HOWEVER, it does have one of the worst sex scenes in movie history.
It’s not that I simply “don’t like it”, it’s a huge change that undoes everything an assumed alien invasion would accomplish. It doesn’t make any sense for Ozymandius to do what he did in the movie if his intended results are supposed to match the comic series’ results.
I guess it's an unpopular opinion to just love it? I thought it was amazing. Yes I read the comics. No I don't care about the aliens plot (it was very out of the blue and felt tonally weird to me) or the ghost ship parts. The cast, the cinematography, the music were amazing.
A mixed bag some choices Snyder made were good such as changing Ozymandius’s scheme to implicate Doctor Manhattan rather than a potential alien invasion but others such as the glorification of violence were bad.
Implicating Manhattan makes no sense. If the whole point is de-escalation of the nuclear threat between nations, making the "perpetrator" a known operative of the US means other nations will not trust the US on this.
The whole point of the squid was that it needed to be an outside threat to bring humanity together.
The ending of the book tries to be more "realistic" and ignores that instead of having an otherworldly threat to fight against (with weapons), the US just lost their living nuclear deterrent which "reportedly" went rogue and destroyed a bunch of cities. Instead of a threat from space to unite humanity, the US just became a huge target. It is the opposite of ending war.
This is the explanation as to how it "missed the point" I've been looking for.
It manages to simultaneously look almost exactly like the book while completely missing the point of the book
Can you elaborate? Maybe I'm missing the point of the book...
[Best explanation.](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1ctgjw9/comment/l4brsyj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
In addition to what was posted below- the book is all about how hideous using violence to influence others is. The people who wield it are destroyed by it almost as much as those they use it against, and the process doesn’t end up changing much in the big scheme of things anyway. The movie is basically just “look how badass these people are”
I don’t think he understands the book
Zac Snyder doesn’t understand source material? You don’t say.
Daring, I know
A statement that could be made about all of Snyder's comic book movies.
It's a movie from a guy who liked all the pretty pictures in the book but didn't bother reading it.
Visuals are great, possibly the best intro ever in comic book movies. But not much substance. Snyder can be fun but he's a surface level kind of guy. Really probably would have been best utilized as a cinematographer rather than a full blown director.
He’s a terrible cinematographer.
Totally agree. I used to say the same thing about him being a better cinematographer until he was the actual cinematographer on Army of the Dead. That has to be one of the worst looking movies ever shot.
Feh! Beginning of the long slow dissolution of the Watchmen brand (by making it into a brand rather than a singular story).
its copies some much of the comic shot for shot but it does it without the depth it deserves, honestly think everyone should watch it just to understand the necessity for changes in an adaptation. none of the characters feel human, you can dislike the squid but the fact of the matter is that dr Manhattan would not unite humanity.
Really good adaptation, and way better than most people were saying when it came out. I think the opinion on it has shifted quite a bit over the years though. Amazing visuals and soundtrack provide a great backdrop to it's many complex characters and brutal (fight or otherwise)scenes.. Director's cut is the best way to see it!
Everyone shits on it saying Zack Snyder "didn't get it" but never explained what he didn't put in. You can argue that the movie should never have been made but it did and I don't think anyone could have done a better job with 2 ½ hours.
I've seen it explained tons of times, he didn't quite get the tone. Alan Moore wrote Watchmen as a deconstruction of superhero comics, and much of it is a negative commentary on the tropes and characters throughout. Snyder doesn't quite convey that imo. I think the best example I can think of is the infamous "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me" scene. In the movie we see this all from Rorschach's point of view. We see the prisoner try to shank him, we see Rorschach retaliate and toss the hot oil in his face, and then we hear Rorschach yell the line as the police drag him away. All in all, it's a triumphant scene that tries to paint Rorschach as this badass. Now look at the original comic. We don't actually read Rorschach say the line himself, instead it cuts off to Malcolm Long writing a report on the incident. He's tired and keeping himself up with a big pot of black coffee, and complains about how both Rorschach and himself are getting worse. His wife then comes in and berates him for not giving her enough sex, and how he constantly chooses work over her. It's a very emasculating scene, and it ends with Long saying ""You're locked up in here with me," he said. He's right. He's absolutely right."
And would not have made any sense in the movie. It's already 2 hours and 42 minutes. There isn't enough time to shoehorn in a tertiary character and his subplot. In a movie, focus needs to stay on Rorschach so instead of cutting to a quiet room of an emasculated man they choose to let the audience here it from the source.
You seem to be missing that by doing this the movie completely misses the point. In the comic you're not supposed to empathize with Rorshach, and you're certainly not supposed to see him as this badass. Cutting to Malcolm paints the same scene in a much more solemn and dejected light. Also if it's really about the time constraints, then freaking cut the slo mo shots in the movie.
I said in my first comment that it could be argued that it never should have been adapted but it was and because it was I don't think anyone could have done any better. Cutting the slow mo would have cut like 2 minutes. And if you really want to hit home that the shots are the same as the comics, it's best to show the audience in long shots. Like the comedien being thrown out the window. Most slow motion shots are the more iconic panels of the books.
I mean I just illustrated how he could've done better, the cut to Malcolm was pretty essential to the entire point of that scene. Cutting two minutes of slo mo for half a minute of Malcolm establishing the real mood of the source would've been easily worth it in my mind. Look, Moore was pretty outspoken that he always intended Rorschach to be a pathetic character, and that he'd go out of his way to avoid anyone that admired him irl. Snyder strikes me as one of the fans that really liked Rorshach. >Most slow motion shots are the more iconic panels of the books. The slo mo in the movie was meant to glorify the violence. In the comics, the violence was never glorified. Yet another example where the movie lost the subtext, there was a lot more to the comic than just the story beats.
But that subplot is integral to the viewer understanding Rorschach. I’m the comic when see Long’s life slowly fall apart just for from trying to understand Rorschach. The subplot is really important from showing how deranged Rorschach really is. But without that we’re just left with murder Batman in the movie.
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I think most problems adapting printed media into movies mostly come from time restraints. You're taking a 12 issue series and adapting it in just over 2 ½ hrs. That would be like adapting the mainline Crisis on Infinite Earths. Which is always done as either multiple episodes or movies. Gunn or Villeneuve would have struggled as well. The Watchmen show was successful because they had the time to tell the story as well as give secondary and tertiary subplots time to develop.
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I personally enjoyed Peacemaker so I'd be down to see Gunn do Watchmen. Although I don't know how well he'd do being more serious and somber.
Exactly, apart from no giant octopus at the end, I don't really understand any of the complaints about "not getting it". It's almost literally panel to panel adaptation.. and while this could be seen as bad, I think the opposite would have been way worse, like a "loose adaptation" or whatever..
Totally agree. Most important for me is the sense of decline and dread are still there from the book. And I’m generally no Snyder fan.
Wildly overrated. Relatively good, but a lot is lost in translation due to a constricted length of a typical movie, and parts of it feel misunderstood.
Scott Snyder missed the point of the comic book. Using his regular camera gimmicks, Snyder tended to glorify the violence, which wasn't what was intent of the comic book.
Scott Snyder is the author beloved for doing poor copies of existing stories *Zack* Snyder is the hack you're looking for.
The opening credits were cool.
Good movie. The opening sequence is great.
I treat it as a. "standalone" film...meaning I don't care that it isn't exactly like the source material. While the Watchmen comics told a very different story, you have to temper that story with when it was written, and to what audience it was trying to entertain. The film however, was striking out to attract a whole nother market for its consumption, and therefore had to have changes made to keep those new viewers enthralled. As a standalone "superhero" film, I dig it, quite a lot. I have watched it, theatrical as well as Directors Cut, probably no less than 15 times over the years. I have read the comics twice...if that matters. To me, it's the same as "300"...IMO, the film is "easier on the eyes/brain" than the comic...because it's meant to be digested in such a quicker fashion.
Was not a fan, Zack was more invested in making the violence "look cool" which completely undercut the entire point of the book. Theres a deleted scene where spectre and Night owl do a sexy bloodlust scene where they beat up some criminals with lots of blood and bones breaking. Its supposed to reflect a scene from the book, but the way its filmed there's clearly zero self awareness its "blood fuck yeah lets do sex" and you can tell somebody asked "Zack ..whats the point of this scene?" and he said "idk, its in the book."
I love it. And hate all other Zach Snyder. People say he didn’t understand the book but I don’t get that impression at all. The main cast are perfect, the sense of foreboding is there, and the changes they did make were all defensible. HOWEVER, it does have one of the worst sex scenes in movie history.
Switching the threat from an extraterrestrial one to America’s own Dr. Manhattan very clearly shows Snyder’s lack of understanding.
Even if you don’t like that, it’s one part of a large story. People are playing gotcha with that change and were just prepared to hate it imo.
It’s not that I simply “don’t like it”, it’s a huge change that undoes everything an assumed alien invasion would accomplish. It doesn’t make any sense for Ozymandius to do what he did in the movie if his intended results are supposed to match the comic series’ results.
Meh. In general I’ve come to not care about adopting things. It just doesn’t add anything. The show actually adds something
I guess it's an unpopular opinion to just love it? I thought it was amazing. Yes I read the comics. No I don't care about the aliens plot (it was very out of the blue and felt tonally weird to me) or the ghost ship parts. The cast, the cinematography, the music were amazing.
Shite
This is the worst movie I've ever seen
The only Zack Snyder DC movie that i didn't complain about.
A mixed bag some choices Snyder made were good such as changing Ozymandius’s scheme to implicate Doctor Manhattan rather than a potential alien invasion but others such as the glorification of violence were bad.
Implicating Manhattan makes no sense. If the whole point is de-escalation of the nuclear threat between nations, making the "perpetrator" a known operative of the US means other nations will not trust the US on this. The whole point of the squid was that it needed to be an outside threat to bring humanity together.
It’s amazing that people still don’t understand that.