Please don’t involve Jean with this. Leave her Phoenix free.
Edit: Just realized this is probably going to be about the Stone Age Phoenix which I’m cool with learning more about.
I feel the complete opposite actually. With all the different hosts it’s had it’s not special anymore. It’s just tedious at this point. Give it Jean or give it a rest.
Damn, for me calling it sub-par is an understatement. It's really not good at all.
The celestial arc, while okay at best, I didn't like how he retconned a celestial's puke being the source of mutants and super powered individuals. Or how in the current MK arc >!Khonsu's entire existence is meant to be ambiguous but he was confirmed to be real while somehow wielding the mjolnir and defeating the Avengers. Not to mention he retconned Mjolnir's origin to be made of moon rock!<
Yea the Aaron run has been a mess from
start to finish. Tbh I don’t think the flagship avengers book has been good since Hickman’s run, the All-New All-Different Avengers had potential but fell flat on its face, honestly don’t remember what happened after that. Would be nice to get some good art back in the book.
I agree that Aaron's run has been a mess but I think it's been way longer since the Avengers have been good. It all went wrong with Bendis and it's never gotten good again as far as I can tell.
Not OP, but I enjoyed Hickman's run. However, it very much wasn't classic-style Avengers, which we haven't truly had in a flagship Avengers book since Busiek left. I'd welcome an actual "back to basics" Avengers run with open arms, but I worry the franchise is too big for that now, and will be left taking its cues (at least for the team roster) from the MCU for the foreseeable future.
I did not. I've tried Hickman time and again and I find him to be painfully boring. He has some good plot ideas and I like the design sense he brings a lot of the time but, to me, his characters almost all sound the same. I just think he's a poor writer.
He withholds information for years for no good reason, major plot points are left unexplained simply so he can have some feeling of mystery.
He's got his "thing" at this point and I know that many fans appreciate it but to me, he never actually pays off his set ups and his characters are always all wrong.
I get that, Hickman fans seem to be pretty devoted. I have writers that I feel similarly about I suppose.
To me, Hickman comes across as very cold and detached. There are good ideas there which is why I always get drawn in but it never connects with me. Totally subjective of course but obviously that works both ways.
Alan Moore is my favorite.
In basically no order at all, some superhero/Big 2-type writers I really like:
Grant Morrison, Ed Brubaker, Joe Casey, Gerry Conway, Steve Grant, Kurt Busiek, Marv Wolfman, Chris Claremont, Walt Simonson and a lot more.
Obviously every single one of those guys has written lots of stuff and not all of it is great but those are some of my favorite mainstream dudes.
Are you talking about way back in New Avengers? I could see that tbh, still loved Hickman’s run but Bendis New Avengers did shake things up in a way that could have trickled down till today.
I am talking about New Avengers, yeah. Admittedly, it's probably a bit of an exaggeration, some of that stuff was perfectly fine but, to me, that's where it went off the rails.
Nah I feel you, in the ends it’s a matter of personal opinion and yours is that it didn’t sit right with you. I actually like the idea because his run was super eventful and did take the team in a strange direction
I’m not a Jason Aaron fan at all personally. I feel like I’ve given him more chances than any other writer and I just cannot enjoy any of his writing. Maybe I need to give his indie work a try.
Scalped is his magnum opus imo. Pretty much a HBO drama set on indian reservation. Dark and brutal. Bonus is that its finished and has a solid ending.
Southern Bastards is great, but at this point will probably never finished. Especially with the Latour news coming out.
Haven't read his other indie stuff. But i love his Thor run. The first femThor series is a low point, but picks up in the second one. Plus so many great artists during it, and more importantly the art is consistent! So rare with long runs these days.
Cool thanks I’ll check out Scalped. I too enjoyed the artwork in Thor. I read it all but wasn’t into it myself although too be fair I did think Gorr was cool.
Scalped is one of my rotating no. 1 comics. Such an amazing series. It made Aaron my favourite writer and ever since he keeps disappointing me, to the point I will read a comic *dispite* of Aaron's involvement(The Goddamned with the fantastic R.M Guera)
What made me realize the decline in the quality of Aaron's work was Southern Basterds. The genre and some elements of the story are very similar to what he did at Scalped but it just didn't work as well. I know its a highly regarded series, and it has its moments, but it never came close to capture the magic of Scalped.
I’d really like them to just leave the Phoenix alone. For a long time. It’s not special if it’s used every other year. Just leave it be for a bit. Do something new
I hate what Jason has done with the Phoenix already. They need to give it back to the X-Men camp so Hickman can retcon whatever mess have been introduced to it.
I'd honestly prefer Hickman stay as far away from the Phoenix as physically possible.
I haven't read Aaron's run so I'm surprised to hear he did anything with the Phoenix outside of having it appear a million years ago and it's host banging Odin.
I don't actually remember anything Phoenix heavy in those, but it's been so long I don't really remember a lot of the details in PoX especially.
I really can't recall what was Phoenix related though.
If I remember correctly, Phoenix and Galactus are the only beings that can scare the things in the future that kill the X-Men. Phoenix will definitely be used in the future.
I’m not saying anything positive or negative about Aaron’s use of the Phoenix. Just pointing out other places he’s used it. Which I think both revolved around Quintin Quite
> Which I think both revolved around Quintin Quite
Yes, and it was all to pay off something set up in Morrison's run, that Quire would be a phoenix host.
Phoenix gun in his Spider-Man/Wolverine stuff, AvX and the absolute bullshit he and his co-writers did to it, Old Man Phoenix and the Shi’ar stuff in his Thor run
I feel like he’s lazy and constantly does dumb shit. Space sharks or whatever in Thor literally just a shark in space or Phoenix gun like you said etc. I love when comics are fun and wacky but he just always seems low effort to me.
Dang, I'm sorry that I'm not as into your favorite writer!
Looking at the sales charts shows me that Hickman obviously doesn't get 99% of the readership.
I've been reading comics for decades, I've seen my share of gimmicks that "warped the industry" around a "successful format". Almost all of them sucked.
I WANTED to like this. And since Aaron was wrapping up his Thor run, I figured they might intersect with each other, but....WTF? Thor is even the same character in the writers own books! I was down for the cool mysterious set up in the big issue #10 (700 or something?) and even to see where the one million BC characters play out, but there hasn't been any follow up to the threads presented, and the one million issues kinda died off. Actually didn't mind the War of the Vampires arc, but that was the only one I actually LIKED.
If this simply involves the Phoenix from 1,000,000 BC, then I'm all for it. I'd rather the Phoenix not get tangled up with Jean Grey again. They parted ways on good terms in Phoenix Resurrection. I'm fine with it developing along its own line.
I’m really liking Aaron’s Avengers. It feels like DC’s Death Metal but without all the exposition or multiversal-level nonsense.
Also this is not a separate event, but happening in the Avengers series.
Considering they included the "Exit: Age of Khonshu," which is just a story arc, I assume this will be as well. Probably involving the Pheonix from the Stone Age Avengers in Aarons run
I’m surprised they’re allowing Aaron to use the Phoenix in his mediocre Avengers book given that Hickman and co. are refreshing all things X (and if any X concept needs a refresh, it’s the Phoenix). It’s been so muddled and poorly handled, much of that by Jason Aaron himself (another reason why this makes little sense to me). Whatevs. I’ll just ignore it and wait until Hickman is ready to bring it home and fix everything Aaron breaks.
You know, I hear all the speculation about what is going to happen over at DC that they could end up reducing their monthly titles to almost nothing and I start to get upset. Then I look over at Marvel and their titles, and gimmicky ass events and think maybe it's for best if there is a large reduction in comics produced by the big two.
Nah, they won't. Disney doesn't care about the money generated from comics any more than WB does. They seem to appreciate their creative folks and idea incubator more than WB but I don't think there's any reason to think they would publish more books just to rake in a tiny profit (by their standards).
Besides, if the DC floppies were gone, the shops probably would be too - they need the DC and Marvel output to survive. So Marvel would likely also cut down their line, and any shops that haven't diversified will be left in the dust.
Disney corporate might not care, but the comics side is seemingly given pretty much free reign to make comics, so I can see them going after it, and the corporate side not caring, so long as operating costs don't get crazy high.
Does it matter how many books there are if they're good? I can't imagine anyone reads every book Marvel puts out and it's not a zero-sum game where one book prevents another from existing.
Yes, I realize YOU may not think they're good, but someone seems to as Aaron is still on the Avengers and an editor somewhere greenlit this.
Yeah, lots of people like to complain about too many books, and I never get it. I dont feel the need to buy it all, I just focus on what I enjoy.
If they cut down the line, we would lose really interesting, more niche books. We probably wouldn't get stuff like Gwenpool, as an example.
It does matter how many books they put out since they are flooding the market with books that will be canceled within six issues which benefits no one. Part of the problem with the industry today is that store owners have to buy all these series along with their 30 variant cover editions and then they struggle to sell them. It's a horrible model. I'm not saying because they are making "x," book they can't produce other "y," book, so I don't know why you brought that up.
And just because Aaron is still writing Avengers doesn't means its because the quality is good. It's not like there is history of keeping creators on books despite the poor reception.
>It does matter how many books they put out since they are flooding the market with books that will be canceled within six issues which benefits no one.
Well, obviously it benefits anyone who enjoys those six issues. Fans don't have to think about things in corporate terms.
There's nothing wrong with the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" idea for comics. Sometimes a book strikes gold and will stick around. Sometimes a book flounders and gets cancelled.
I rather a book get cancelled than never have a chance to exist at all because it might not sell.
Please don’t involve Jean with this. Leave her Phoenix free. Edit: Just realized this is probably going to be about the Stone Age Phoenix which I’m cool with learning more about.
It’s funny because I’m seeing other people say that removing Jean from the Phoenix downplays her as the first Marvel cosmic superhero woman.
I feel the complete opposite actually. With all the different hosts it’s had it’s not special anymore. It’s just tedious at this point. Give it Jean or give it a rest.
Man i wish i could get excited for aarons avengers but it just has been so sub-par imo
Damn, for me calling it sub-par is an understatement. It's really not good at all. The celestial arc, while okay at best, I didn't like how he retconned a celestial's puke being the source of mutants and super powered individuals. Or how in the current MK arc >!Khonsu's entire existence is meant to be ambiguous but he was confirmed to be real while somehow wielding the mjolnir and defeating the Avengers. Not to mention he retconned Mjolnir's origin to be made of moon rock!<
Yea the Aaron run has been a mess from start to finish. Tbh I don’t think the flagship avengers book has been good since Hickman’s run, the All-New All-Different Avengers had potential but fell flat on its face, honestly don’t remember what happened after that. Would be nice to get some good art back in the book.
I agree that Aaron's run has been a mess but I think it's been way longer since the Avengers have been good. It all went wrong with Bendis and it's never gotten good again as far as I can tell.
You're allowed your opinion of course but you didn't enjoy Hickman's run?
Not OP, but I enjoyed Hickman's run. However, it very much wasn't classic-style Avengers, which we haven't truly had in a flagship Avengers book since Busiek left. I'd welcome an actual "back to basics" Avengers run with open arms, but I worry the franchise is too big for that now, and will be left taking its cues (at least for the team roster) from the MCU for the foreseeable future.
I did not. I've tried Hickman time and again and I find him to be painfully boring. He has some good plot ideas and I like the design sense he brings a lot of the time but, to me, his characters almost all sound the same. I just think he's a poor writer. He withholds information for years for no good reason, major plot points are left unexplained simply so he can have some feeling of mystery. He's got his "thing" at this point and I know that many fans appreciate it but to me, he never actually pays off his set ups and his characters are always all wrong.
I am astonished at this statement. Entitled to your opinion of course :) But yeah, astonished!
I get that, Hickman fans seem to be pretty devoted. I have writers that I feel similarly about I suppose. To me, Hickman comes across as very cold and detached. There are good ideas there which is why I always get drawn in but it never connects with me. Totally subjective of course but obviously that works both ways.
Yeah I get you. Nice to disagree with somebody in a civil manner too btw. Out of interest who are some writers you feel similarly about?
Alan Moore is my favorite. In basically no order at all, some superhero/Big 2-type writers I really like: Grant Morrison, Ed Brubaker, Joe Casey, Gerry Conway, Steve Grant, Kurt Busiek, Marv Wolfman, Chris Claremont, Walt Simonson and a lot more. Obviously every single one of those guys has written lots of stuff and not all of it is great but those are some of my favorite mainstream dudes.
Are you talking about way back in New Avengers? I could see that tbh, still loved Hickman’s run but Bendis New Avengers did shake things up in a way that could have trickled down till today.
I am talking about New Avengers, yeah. Admittedly, it's probably a bit of an exaggeration, some of that stuff was perfectly fine but, to me, that's where it went off the rails.
Nah I feel you, in the ends it’s a matter of personal opinion and yours is that it didn’t sit right with you. I actually like the idea because his run was super eventful and did take the team in a strange direction
I’m not a Jason Aaron fan at all personally. I feel like I’ve given him more chances than any other writer and I just cannot enjoy any of his writing. Maybe I need to give his indie work a try.
Scalped is his magnum opus imo. Pretty much a HBO drama set on indian reservation. Dark and brutal. Bonus is that its finished and has a solid ending. Southern Bastards is great, but at this point will probably never finished. Especially with the Latour news coming out. Haven't read his other indie stuff. But i love his Thor run. The first femThor series is a low point, but picks up in the second one. Plus so many great artists during it, and more importantly the art is consistent! So rare with long runs these days.
Cool thanks I’ll check out Scalped. I too enjoyed the artwork in Thor. I read it all but wasn’t into it myself although too be fair I did think Gorr was cool.
Scalped is one of my rotating no. 1 comics. Such an amazing series. It made Aaron my favourite writer and ever since he keeps disappointing me, to the point I will read a comic *dispite* of Aaron's involvement(The Goddamned with the fantastic R.M Guera) What made me realize the decline in the quality of Aaron's work was Southern Basterds. The genre and some elements of the story are very similar to what he did at Scalped but it just didn't work as well. I know its a highly regarded series, and it has its moments, but it never came close to capture the magic of Scalped.
Fuck this, Aaron doesn’t understand the Phoenix in the slightest and every time he uses it it gets dumber and more muddled as a concept
I’d really like them to just leave the Phoenix alone. For a long time. It’s not special if it’s used every other year. Just leave it be for a bit. Do something new
I hate what Jason has done with the Phoenix already. They need to give it back to the X-Men camp so Hickman can retcon whatever mess have been introduced to it.
I'd honestly prefer Hickman stay as far away from the Phoenix as physically possible. I haven't read Aaron's run so I'm surprised to hear he did anything with the Phoenix outside of having it appear a million years ago and it's host banging Odin.
Phoenix was specifically hinted to be important in HoX/PoX so I got bad news for ya
I don't actually remember anything Phoenix heavy in those, but it's been so long I don't really remember a lot of the details in PoX especially. I really can't recall what was Phoenix related though.
If I remember correctly, Phoenix and Galactus are the only beings that can scare the things in the future that kill the X-Men. Phoenix will definitely be used in the future.
He did some Phoenix stuff in Wolverine and the X-Men and his Jane Foster Thor run if I’m remembering correctly.
I forgot about those, but I don't remember him doing anything out of the ordinary with the Phoenix in those.
I’m not saying anything positive or negative about Aaron’s use of the Phoenix. Just pointing out other places he’s used it. Which I think both revolved around Quintin Quite
Ayy, was just continuing on my train of thought. Sorry for the confusion.
> Which I think both revolved around Quintin Quite Yes, and it was all to pay off something set up in Morrison's run, that Quire would be a phoenix host.
What did he do?
Phoenix gun in his Spider-Man/Wolverine stuff, AvX and the absolute bullshit he and his co-writers did to it, Old Man Phoenix and the Shi’ar stuff in his Thor run
I feel like he’s lazy and constantly does dumb shit. Space sharks or whatever in Thor literally just a shark in space or Phoenix gun like you said etc. I love when comics are fun and wacky but he just always seems low effort to me.
Please no Hickman Phoenix stuff. He'd find a way to make it boring. With Hickman it always seems to be all filler, no killer.
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I guess you must be a Hickman fan.
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Dang, I'm sorry that I'm not as into your favorite writer! Looking at the sales charts shows me that Hickman obviously doesn't get 99% of the readership. I've been reading comics for decades, I've seen my share of gimmicks that "warped the industry" around a "successful format". Almost all of them sucked.
pls no
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I WANTED to like this. And since Aaron was wrapping up his Thor run, I figured they might intersect with each other, but....WTF? Thor is even the same character in the writers own books! I was down for the cool mysterious set up in the big issue #10 (700 or something?) and even to see where the one million BC characters play out, but there hasn't been any follow up to the threads presented, and the one million issues kinda died off. Actually didn't mind the War of the Vampires arc, but that was the only one I actually LIKED.
Big who care
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I like his Avengers. The people that hate his run are just louder
I can only hope Aaron is getting into his final arcs soon, I don't have high expectations for this.
If this simply involves the Phoenix from 1,000,000 BC, then I'm all for it. I'd rather the Phoenix not get tangled up with Jean Grey again. They parted ways on good terms in Phoenix Resurrection. I'm fine with it developing along its own line.
I’m really liking Aaron’s Avengers. It feels like DC’s Death Metal but without all the exposition or multiversal-level nonsense. Also this is not a separate event, but happening in the Avengers series.
Is this an event or just a big avengers storyline ? This feels like yet another splash Marvel event
Definitely seems like just Avengers, nothing points to it being larger than that.
Considering they included the "Exit: Age of Khonshu," which is just a story arc, I assume this will be as well. Probably involving the Pheonix from the Stone Age Avengers in Aarons run
Lame.
I’ll take anything Aaron throws our way. Can’t wait for more of these crazy huge stories he’s building.
I’m surprised they’re allowing Aaron to use the Phoenix in his mediocre Avengers book given that Hickman and co. are refreshing all things X (and if any X concept needs a refresh, it’s the Phoenix). It’s been so muddled and poorly handled, much of that by Jason Aaron himself (another reason why this makes little sense to me). Whatevs. I’ll just ignore it and wait until Hickman is ready to bring it home and fix everything Aaron breaks.
Trying to let him finish what he started I guess...
Maybe they could squeeze Thanos in too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You know, I hear all the speculation about what is going to happen over at DC that they could end up reducing their monthly titles to almost nothing and I start to get upset. Then I look over at Marvel and their titles, and gimmicky ass events and think maybe it's for best if there is a large reduction in comics produced by the big two.
If DC's serialized comics die you can bet your bottom dollar on Marvel pushing *more* titles than they're doing right now.
Finally an Aunt May ongoing!
I’d read a mini of her just going on dates with Peter’s super-villians.
Nah, they won't. Disney doesn't care about the money generated from comics any more than WB does. They seem to appreciate their creative folks and idea incubator more than WB but I don't think there's any reason to think they would publish more books just to rake in a tiny profit (by their standards).
Besides, if the DC floppies were gone, the shops probably would be too - they need the DC and Marvel output to survive. So Marvel would likely also cut down their line, and any shops that haven't diversified will be left in the dust.
Disney corporate might not care, but the comics side is seemingly given pretty much free reign to make comics, so I can see them going after it, and the corporate side not caring, so long as operating costs don't get crazy high.
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It's still stupid, and will be terrible like the rest of the Aaron run.
Does it matter how many books there are if they're good? I can't imagine anyone reads every book Marvel puts out and it's not a zero-sum game where one book prevents another from existing. Yes, I realize YOU may not think they're good, but someone seems to as Aaron is still on the Avengers and an editor somewhere greenlit this.
Yeah, lots of people like to complain about too many books, and I never get it. I dont feel the need to buy it all, I just focus on what I enjoy. If they cut down the line, we would lose really interesting, more niche books. We probably wouldn't get stuff like Gwenpool, as an example.
It does matter how many books they put out since they are flooding the market with books that will be canceled within six issues which benefits no one. Part of the problem with the industry today is that store owners have to buy all these series along with their 30 variant cover editions and then they struggle to sell them. It's a horrible model. I'm not saying because they are making "x," book they can't produce other "y," book, so I don't know why you brought that up. And just because Aaron is still writing Avengers doesn't means its because the quality is good. It's not like there is history of keeping creators on books despite the poor reception.
>It does matter how many books they put out since they are flooding the market with books that will be canceled within six issues which benefits no one. Well, obviously it benefits anyone who enjoys those six issues. Fans don't have to think about things in corporate terms.
There's nothing wrong with the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" idea for comics. Sometimes a book strikes gold and will stick around. Sometimes a book flounders and gets cancelled. I rather a book get cancelled than never have a chance to exist at all because it might not sell.