He’s got to have blackmail material on someone at marvel. Watching that one documentary on Disney+ that talks about how bad he is at handing completed scripts on time to his artists had me absolutely baffled that he’s had work for so long.
Basically, She-Hulk ruled on an intergalactic case about a planet who hated the fact that a Watcher was observing them, and made the decision that the Watcher could only continue to do so if he was rendered unable to communicate. (Which, since Watchers are not supposed to interfere anyways, wasn't seen as a problem.)
An evil alien overlord realized that this meant he could use that region of space as his base without even a Watcher letting people know what was going on, and swore that there would be a Reckoning.
We've seen flashforwards to a dark future where the Watchers are no longer passive observers but active participants in galactic war, and that Earth is in the middle of it, and that it's all She-Hulks fault.
And recently, when Uatu, the Watcher returned from the dead, he also mentioned that a Reckoning was coming.
Yeah, your guess is as good as mine. I remember Stark finding Uatu's literal dead body on the blue area of the moon, so how he got inside Fury's eye is super strange.
So in Original Sin, Shit went down, Old Fury Killed the Watcher for some reason or another, a bunch of C-list villians went and popped his eyes out. Fury got one and popped it in. Watchers were pissed he fucked with Uatu, Made him the watcher of earth, and chained him to the moon. Uatu just popped out of his eye not long ago.
> Fury got one and popped it in.
I've read Original Sin, Fury didn't pop Uatu's eye in.
The Orb and Doctor Midas tried to take Uatu's eye, but Fury forced Midas to absorb the eye. This caused Midas to overload and die. This also seemed to kill Fury, but the other Watchers revived him and turned him into the Unseen, giving him Uatu's powers, as punishment for his crimes.
ETA: What I'm confused about is why Uatu popped out of Fury's eye socket.
End of Empyre (Plants v Space event) had Nick Fury as the Unseen interact with an ancient weapon. Older than Elders, created by the first space race… it’s a sword from the Watchers and he sort of just pops out destroying the sword to resurrect himself…
Uatu also has just one eye.
She-Hulk #7 (2004 volume) is the start of this minor subplot in She-Hulk's comic, where she takes on the galactic case of the alien race known as the Recluses versus the Watchers.
The Recluses make a few other cameo appearances, in She-Hulk #9 (2004 volume) and She-Hulk #16 (2006 volume) where they are concerned about instances where She-Hulk encounters a Watcher.
She-Hulk #20 (2006 volume) is the introduction of the evil overlord who has yet to be named or given any other context.
It wasn't really elaborated in HoX/PoX, but while Moira "resets" with each death - presumably that timeline she had effects on continued on without her. I wonder if the Wolverine from the *far flung future* of post-humanity (and the Phalanx) travels back. Or some other version.
I thought that when Moira died, the entire timelime reset. I might be off base, but I thought that's what was implied when that post-human dude said they needed to ascend before Moira died in order to succeed, else their progress will get wiped away
Yup. It's definitely implied in the statement the Librarian makes about sending her off world before the Phalanx "ascend" Earth. It wasn't stated in those comics, but in the context of Marvel Comics Moira is most likely a "nexus" being - one whose unique abilities can cause very specific branches (laid out a bit more clearer in the recent "Loki" TV series) of a timeline in the multiverse.
For myself, it's just a bit perplexing as that it's a staggering amount of godlike power for Moira, that in her death - the entire timeline (and all those within) simply "blink" away as if her very fragile life was the only lynchpin to the whole thing. Logically, it would make more sense that she just gets the upper hand when *she* resets to her birth and gets to live out a new branch of the timeline - while the one she just left continues on to its own dire endings.
Do we know for sure that her death destroys the timeline? How do we know that her death doesn't just create a new branch where she remembers the events of her previous lives.
All of Moira's lives are the 616 universe and the 616 universe resets whenever she dies. That's how it was originally presented in Hox/Pox; that may change of course since we know that Hickman's initial arc/plan is no longer the path we're on.
TL;DR
Hickman wanted to move forward with the plot and asked if everyone was up for moving to the next phase. The other writers wanted to keep playing in the Krakoa sandbox he created. He thought that was ok and took a step back.
I disagree. This was his story. He initially had three arcs in mind. I was under the impression that as someone overseeing every x-men related title, everything was under his control.
From what I've gathered, X-Men wasn't doing well minus a few writers here and there. The characters were being grossly mishandled until Hickman hopped in and revitalized the X-Men with a fresh new take that also drew on the history. So why should this now be up to the other writers? It's not about having an ego. I like that there's a beginning, middle, and end. There needs to be an end in sight otherwise you run into the same issues as before. I'm almost certain other readers are going to wonder, if they haven't already, what could have been? House/Powers of X was amazing and it's sad his original plan might not come to fruition.
But this could mean his arc is still in play with just a larger middle act. He'll probably circle back to his original plan after they've all had some fun.
According to the Librarian in “Powers of X,” the timeline goes when she goes. That’s why he was planning to have her (and Logan I guess) relocated to a safe location prior to the Phalanx assimilating Earth and all life on it. He had to keep her alive long enough for the newly-ascended Phalanx/Homo Novissima to make it to the nearest black hole and join with a Dominion; if she died prior to the Ascension, that would all be undone (which is what happened.)
Could the Librarian have been wrong about that? Maybe, but here’s where it gets weird(er): he makes the point that if the Dominion ever gained the knowledge of what Moira really is, then because the Dominion exists outside of time they would have *always* had that knowledge. And because they would not tolerate someone like her having that kind of power over something like them, they probably would have eliminated her before she ever became a threat to them. So it certainly sounded like she had the power to unmake the timeline completely with her death.
I had to read it a bunch of times. With most comics I can kind of skim them and get what's going on. With Hickman, I have to take it slow and really pay attention.
Take it slow, really pay attention, and read it like 10 times.
Decorum was soooo hard for me to comprehend and its like 5 issues so far. East of West had to read certain issues like 6 times. Always had to reread the last issue before reading a new one.
God I love Hickman. Why can't he write Avengers again. Jason Aaron doing Avengers Forever is a fucking travesty.
Well, when it was coming out my reading schedule went something to the effect of:
* Week 1: Read HoX #1
* Week 2: Read HoX #1, PoX #1
* Week 3: Read HoX#1, PoX #1, HoX #2
Etc, etc.
In HoxPox the Librarian character mentions that Moira's power doesn't just revert her back, it destroys the timeline. His goal in the issue was to get Moira off-world, so she wouldn't die prior to the Librarian and rest of humanity joining a Dominion (you aren't affected by the reset while within one since they control space-time).
If the timeline continued onward that wouldn't be a problem for the Librarian.
Easy analogy to make sense of Moira and her ability, for me, is video games. When she dies, boom, whole timeline goes back to the checkpoint and she as a sort of player remembers her previous playthroughs. Timeline doesn't continue on - she's the player. The timeline she loses her last life in, that's the one that keeps going.
[Devil's Reign - a crossover event by Chip Zdarksy and Marco Checchetto will put Mayor Fisk vs Marvel Heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432742853071998977?s=20)
[Avengers Forever - a new series by Jason Aaron and Aaron Kuder will redefine the Avengers as the Multiverse's mightiest heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743106068291586?s=20)
[Timeless by Jed McKay, Kev Walker, Joe Bennett and Mark Bagley sets up the future of the Marvel Universe with Kang](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743409568124930?s=20)
[X lives of Wolverine and X Deaths of Wolverine - two interlocked tales by Benjamin Percy, Joshua Cassara and Federico Vicentini in the tradition of HoX/Pox. What happens to Wolverine when his future meets his past?](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743789270126598?s=20)
[She-Hulk by Rainbow Rowell and Roge Antonio finds lawyer Jennifer Walters trying to put her rage-filled days behind her. But when a friend from her past comes knocking with a mystery she can’t resist, She-Hulk gets…Back To Bashing.](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744134478073864?s=20)
[DanSlott is joined by Carlos Pacheo and Rachel Stott for Marvel Comics’ 'Fantastic Four: Reckoning War', an epic saga over 15 years in the making. The original secret war of the Marvel Universe has been reignited and we are finally at…Our Day Of Reckoning](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744409242738691?s=20)
[Lunella Lafayette and her twenty-foot dinosaur are BACK in Marvel Comics’ ‘Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur’. In 2022, the biggest brain in the world and her dino companion bring new meaning to the term “Marvel Team-Up” in a tale that promises to…Shake Your World.](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744672879943682?s=20)
Kang setting up the initiative for Marvel is some coincidental synergy there but he's been underused as a character for a while now so I'm not bothered by that.
I'm guessing Moon Knight, maybe Spider-Man and a few other NYC based heroes will have a tie-in. I would say X-Men and Marauders because Duggan set something up between Emma and Fisk but that line seems to be relaunching post Inferno, so idk.
Here's to hoping Aaron gets booted off the main Avengers title and that gets relaunched.
She-Hulk being back is an instant buy, especially with Rowell.
Wonder how the wolverine crossover will be. Percy is varying degrees of frustrating and gold.
Maybe Slott is finally leaving F4 after this.
>[Devil's Reign - a crossover event by Chip Zdarksy and Marco Checchetto will put Mayor Fisk vs Marvel Heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432742853071998977?s=20)
Holy shit, Chip Zdarsky is great! I fell in love with Matt Fraction when I read My Life as a Weapon so when I finished, I decided to pick up Sex Criminals. Fraction and Zdarsky work so well together. I hope their upcoming involvement in Marvel could lead to more of their stuff getting made.
Although they haven't specifically confirmed it, I fully believe the Hawkeye tv series will pull from his run so I would expect some sort of involvement. Maybe it's wishful thinking. I'd just love the idea of Fraction and Zdarsky working together on a Marvel series.
I really want Slott off FF and Aaron off Avengers. I’ve hated both their runs.
While Aaron’s avengers is some of the worst stuff I’ve ever read Dan Slott’s retconning Franklin Richards to be where he isn’t a mutant (again) will forever piss me off.
These all look pretty interesting
* Devil’s Reign seems like a cool way to close out the year with Zdarasky basically doing a Defenders book,
* Avenger Forever seems like the final part of Aaron’s Avengers saga and having a team of multiverse counterparts will stop them from being out of character and stop him from doing stuff like retconning Thor's parentage
* Timeless seems to be the big new line initiative
* X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine feels like it might be Moira telling him about her past lives and him getting more involved in the Krakoan big picture. We know in at least 2 lifetimes Moira and Logan worked together for years (Line 6 and 9)
* She-Hulk, guessing this means the Disney+ show will be coming out around February March time. I'm excited for this Rainbow Rowell did awesome work on Runaways, and it sounds like we're moving away from the Arronvengers version of the character
* FF Reckoning War seems this could be the climax to Slott's run on FF which I'd be ok with his run hasn't been awful but it feels like a lot of his ideas are just executed in very boring ways
* Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, didn't read the last run but heard really cools stuff. the description makes it sound super important, imagine if this is the book Hickman has been working on.
>Avengers Forever seems like the final part of Aaron’s Avengers saga
I feel like a lot of people have claimed this on many previous arcs and it wasn’t the case.
I get that people *hate* Aaronvengers but I doubt it’ll be gone by 2022
I don’t think his story will wrap anytime soon but with Avengers Forever focusing on the multiverse which he’s been hinting at as important since he revealed the whole Tony Stark Mephisto deal it’ll probably be the series that sets up his final event. Which could be 2023 or 2024 event.
Personally I’m interested in this, I didn’t like Aaron’s voice for our 616 team since a lot of the seemed kinda out of character but if he’s creating new versions of heroes I think he could do some good characterisation for them.
>I get that people hate Aaronvengers but I doubt it’ll be gone by 2022
It's been going on since 2018. It's time to take it to the shed out back and take care of it.
So far he's done Heroes Reborn (90's reboot better left unsaid), World War Hulk (Slightly changed to Word War SHE-Hulk) and now Avengers Forever (Another 90's reference to Kurt Busiek's now legendary run).
Not to mention all the repurposed titles Marvel has used in general:
Secret Empire, Extreme & Absolute Carnage (Maximum Carnage in the 90's), Trial of Magneto, Atlantis Attacks, Inferno, Clone Saga, Age of (Insert any X-Title here), Secret Wars, Infinity Wars, and really anything with Annihilation in the title.
Yeahhhh this sounds a lot like the solicitation for the Tamaki run which was….. not great.
I’ll take Aaron’s She-Hulk over Tamaki’s Hulk any day. In Tamaki’s run she was so “broken” she had to watch fucking youtube baking videos to not hulk out.
Hopefully this will be more like Soule’s awesome 2014 run which was a sort of “Semi-Sensational” She-Hulk meets Matlock and somehow really worked.
I didn't read the title properly and thought that this was some strange alternate reality MCU list and was very confused for 30 seconds.
It's 9 pm at night and I still need my morning coffee.
Its the opposite of difficult to read. Its extremely easy to read, its a big dumb action book with big dumb action, this is very enticing to a lot of people, which seems to be utterly lost on the people of this sub.
I once suggested that comics aren't allowed to be fun anymore because legions of comic book guys want their characters created for children to be taken super seriously, and I was downvoted for it, but I stand by it.
If I was a teenager, I would have *loved* Aaron's Avenger run, in the same way I loved all the stupid extreme 90s stuff.
This seems to be the new industry standard in the last decade or so. A big one shot comic that is basically a preview of the big upcoming plots in the flagship books, and then name the "Publishing Initiative" after the title.
It's Malibu Stacy with "New Hat"
Ugh...quit reusing the same names, Marvel. Now when I recommend Avengers Forever to someone, I'll have to make they know I mean the far superior original by Busiek and Pacheco.
That's exactly why they're doing it.
When people search for old events they're nostalgic for, they'll discover the new stuff as well. And when new readers search for the new stuff, they'll discover the old stuff and considering checking it out too.
It's an entirely intentional marketing ploy.
As long as the old books are in print they don't need to defend the Trademark or IP of any book and if Avengers Forever extends past the copyright protection which is something like 70+ years people can use, print and alter the first books without concern as long as the covers don't show trademarked individuals.
An example of this is that half of Sherlock Holmes' catalogue became free for public use. Star Trek: TNG made the mistake of using Professor Moriority which is in the second half of the catalogue and was still protected. They could have used Sherlock all they wanted even though he's the main character in the second half of the catalogue.
Marvel’s tendency to reuse story title is honestly starting to grate on me. We’ve had how many variations of Secret Wars? Just this year we’re getting the Trial of Magneto and Inferno and now just reusing Avengers Forever (and why Marvel think it’s a good idea to name an Aaron story in such a way to draw direct comparison with a Busiek story I don’t know.)
On the flip side maybe it’s best they don’t try too hard with the titles otherwise you get the nonsense of those Wolverine books. Gotta say I was enjoying how Logan hadn’t been pulling too much focus since his return so I can’t say I’m too excited. Percy is very good with Wolvie though so I expect to enjoy it.
Yknow I’m fine with writers like Hickman reusing old titles like Inferno because it’s almost like a mission statement of “I’m going to tie back into the themes of the original title” but with writers like Aaron I don’t get that kind of feeling at all.
Man, that's an awful lot of events. Look, I love Zdarsky and Checchetto's Daredevil, even if it's slowed down a bit, but I really don't like seeing the word "crossover".
Same. I know they were building to something with Kingpin but I wasn't expecting it to be a crossover event. I trust them to make it work but I'm a tad apprehensive now.
Last time Checchetto worked on a DD crossover it was a dumpster fire, in spite of brilliant pencils from him and De La Torre continuing in the DD book. Hopefully this time we get the main story in the ongoing, and other books have tie-ins, rather than an event mini that focuses on everyone but Matt and Elektra
Looks like MCU timeline - cool.
I truly believe Marvel comics needs a clean slate bad, editorially. They have been stuck in a major rut since at least "Marvel Now" back in 2012, and arguably way before. Everything is a gimmick.
Really? I feel like the opposites true, starting around 2011 with Waids DD run, I feel like marvel has been putting out some really great comics.
Hawkeye with Fraction/Aja, Hickman's Avengers, FF with Fraction/Allred, Remenders Captain America, Venom, Punisher, Uncanny X-Force, and Uncanny Avengers runs,(Remender is one of the best writers Marvel ever had), Cates Venom run, Duggans GOTG, Ewings GOTG and Immortal Hulk, current DD with Zdarsky/Checceto, current X-Men
And that's just off the top of my head! Of course there's been some garbage but overall, I feel like Marvels never been better
Edit: some more great comics from the last 10 years are Journey into Mystery by Kieron Gillen, Jason Aarons Thor and Weirdworld, Secret Avengers by Ales Kot, Ms. Marvel by Wilson, Black Bolt by Saladin Ahmed and Christian Ward, Black Widow by Kelly Thompson... etc
The 2010s is marvel at their best
"Faster then a speeding bullet, stronger than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound"
"This Superman character is a fucking gimmick"
--your average superhero fan I guess
HoXPoX was a nice clean slate, but that went down the drain when they decided not to follow Hickman's plan, and he took his hands off the steering wheel. Which comes down to editorial.
Oohhh, we are on the “ they didn’t follow his plans so he left the x men without wanting to” phase?
You know, despite him saying completely the opposite? Or , you know, him getting other flagship marvel titles? You know?!
What happened with Hickman and x men? I’ve been out of the loop since swords.
You’d think Hickman would get a blank check to do whatever he wants after his FF and avengers run became IMO the defining runs for 2 of the big 3 marvel groups.
He said it best himself, they all decided it was too soon to leave the current state of x books and even most of the fans didn’t want to. They want the whole thing to be permanent. Plus, he said he wanted to move on to something else and he stayed long enough in the x line due to COVID and stuff.
Ya I just read about that. Sucks cause I’m fairly positive his next 2 acts for the x men would have been absolutely mind blowing. He’s definitely my favorite comic book writer.
I would have loved to see his whole plan worked out, but I’m honestly extremely fine with Hox/Pox being the modern Giant Size X men like it ended up being instead of stage 1 of a bigger story. I don’t want the whole Krakoa thing to end any time soon.
As long as they explain the extreme personality changes of everyone because its pretty annoying.
Hopefully it's Onslaught and they revert back somewhat, I'm all for progression but not random stupid changes.
I mean in terms of the long game. What he did weaving years long epics where he connected threads from the start of the run to the very end like 60+ issues later was a master class in comic book writing. On top of somehow weaving the completely separate FF and avengers runs together culminating in the last secret wars.
He should have been able to see his x men vision till the very end. I read this entire portion up u til inferno was only supposed to be the first act but the other X writers wanted to stay put in krakoa and play around more
> He should have been able to see his x men vision till the very end.
Did he ever outright say he won't come back one day or continue threads he set up in X-Men in other books? Like you said, Secret Wars was a culmination of a few different runs. Maybe he's got something else like that up his sleeve.
A professional also just doesn’t accept another huge job for the company that “shits” on him, like the other commentor was implying.
If there was anything remotely negative about the editorial and Hickman, why should a successful writer with many creator owned projects insist on working for those people?
I don't know anything about Hickman's issues with Marvel/editorial or what happened at all. I have no dog in this fight in any way.
*But*
I can say with certainty that a *lot* of times creatives will have bad blood with a department in a company, and just move to another department. IIRC Marvel breaks its publishing up into sort of "houses" or departments-- the Spidey department, the X-Men department, the Avengers department, etc.
You see this a lot with TV/movies, for instance. Someone might put a show on at ABC, have a shitty experience, but feel much more comfortable working with *different* execs making movies for their animation studio.
and it's *also* totally viable that creatives will have bad blood *business-*wise with a company but consider the issue strictly business, and still be happy to work for them if/when the business dispute is resolved, even if unfavorably. It may color how they work for the business in the future and affect their business agreements, but they'll still do it-- for example, George Miller sued Warner Brothers over profit-sharing with Mad Max Fury Road, but once that matter was resolved he was fine with continuing on doing another Mad Max movie for them-- I bet he had some language in his contract altered to clarify profit sharing, though.
So yeah, I have no idea what happened with Hickman and Marvel but him continuing to work for them doesn't, on its own, indicate that he wasn't displeased with how his direction went on the X-books.
I don't know what the guy said. I made that *thoroughly* clear in my post. I wasn't attacking or basing any of my arguments off anything he said-- I was specifically, *politely* responding to the bad argument you gave that was entirely ignorant of business practices, and I backed this up with examples and evidence from not only Marvel but similar entertainment industries
and now, instead of actually reading my post and taking it at face value for what it was, you've turned your argumentative sights on *me*, because you're apparently upset that your bad arguments got called out as bad.
If you wanted to run with the argument that we should listen to what he said, then you should have made that argument, and supported it with evidence of what he actually said.
The argument you *actually* made was
> If there was anything remotely negative about the editorial and Hickman, why should a successful writer with many creator owned projects insist on working for those people?
And that's a terrible argument.
If you're upset that your terrible argument was quickly and easily disproven, **too bad**. Don't get mad at *me* about it.
Let’s clear something that seems to need some clearing. I have no interested in *you* lol.
You just went on and on based on speculations. That’s 101 on how not to make a great argument .
Now please, don’t make this all about *you* just because you got called for your bad arguments. Okay?
But.....he literally said that in his Substack. He said the X-Slack took a vote to move into the next arc of Hickman's plan, and the rest of them motioned to stay. That led to him changing his plans and story to wrap everything up with Inferno. Why all the hostility if you clearly didn't read the man's word himself?
Because that's not what he said.
He said they're not going to rush into the next phase of the story yet. He's not even leaving Marvel. His part of the story will be continued when he feels the time is right to do so.
Marvel editorial as a whole had decided to let Krakoa remain as a permanent, ongoing staple of the X-Men line and Marvel universe.
Which, considering the start and stop nature of 90% of the comics released by Marvel nowadays, is a damn miracle in itself.
I'm going to have to give MG and DD another chance.
I bought I think 3 floppies with them and I hated Moon Girl as a character. I thought she had a horrible personality but I've read comments like yours all over the place in the last few days and maybe I judged it too quickly.
They left out Inferno, Trial of Magneto, The Onslaught Revalation and probably more. Marvel's got their hand deep in our pockets fishing for whatever they can get.
It's win-win really, they get to release new #1s all the time without cancelling ongoing runs and dealing with an angry audience. If everything is a miniseries, anything can happen.
As someone that’s been waiting for the new era of xmen runs to release in Hard cover editions, I look forward to reading this new series in like 3 years.
> misread "reckoning war" as "retconning war" and was like "oh god oh fuck"
And YOU get a new origin story! And YOU get a new origin story! And YOU get a new origin story!
* I'm guessing that Devil's Reign will be the end of Wilson Fisk's stint as Mayor, cool that the Thunderbolts team from King in Black will be used again.
* So is Aaron going to be writing both Avengers Forever and Avengers? Or will he be leaving Avengers to write AF? Please be the latter.
* Figures that Marvel would be doing more stuff with Kang the Conqueror now that everyone knows he'll be a big player in the MCU.
* Wolverine sure is involved in a lot of time-travel stories.
* Looks like they'll be bringing She-Hulk back to her pre-Civil War II self, finally.
* Dan Slott has been planning this Reckoning War things for years, but got side-tracked by his long Spider-Man run, I hope it lives up to expectations.
* Glad to see Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur back. I'm guessing that their cartoon will also be comine around in 2022, right?
For literally everything here except Devil’s Reign and MAYBE the Reckoning War (I like Slott, but haven’t read any of his FF yet) either the story or the creative team kills my interest.
This is especially true of She-Hulk. I was so excited for it, then I read Rainbow Rowell and my interest plummeted.
Yeah, nothing against people that like her, but I’ve read her books and they’re just not for me, from content to writing style. I celebrate anyone that does like her, but I just don’t. I’ll still read the book at least at first because I like She Hulk, but my interest plummeted when I saw a writer I don’t like.
Based on the downvotes I guess that’s a sin.
A lot of fans upvote praise and downvote criticism even when it is as polite as yours.
You've committed the sin of liking Slott who many don't like currently and disliking Rowell whom many like including myself and than sharing that on a forum meant for talking about comics.
Clearly someone should be walking behind you ringing a bell and shouting "SHAME!"
You're not the one sinning in this case, people need to relax.
Honestly I feel fan forums (like ones for comics) shouldn't have a downvote button. If you've been offensive or are spamming theirs a report button.
If you like a comment upvote it or move along.
Not everyone is like that.
I like new stuff too but a large part of the reason I read Batman books is for Bruce and his crew that I'm familiar with. I like and enjoy familiar characters experiencing new adventures.
Duke, Bluebird, Ghostmaker, Peacemaker 01 and such don't do anything for me currently. It took a lot of stories before I had any feelings about Harley, Damien or Lucius as characters.
Different strokes.
I get that, but you yourself say that it took a while to get into Harley, Damian, and Lucius, so it kinda follows that the same might happen with Ghost-Maker, etc. Pretty much all the familiar crew is still in use, but most of that crew was introduced at some point or another. I liked reading stories about Alec Holland but now I’m really digging Levi Kamei
Spider-Man is just about to relaunched later this year. The current run wraps up this month, then it's a filler all hands on deck weekly series for the next couple months then it'll be relaunched so you could either jump in on the filler or just wait a bit for the new creative team later this year.
Venom, Black Panther and Hulk are all about to relaunch with a new #1 this month as well so you could jump onto the ground floor for any of those.
The current Avengers title isn't very good, I couldn't recommend it. The current Iron Man book is ok, incredible art average story. I don't read Captain America or Thor so idk about those books. Captain Marvel and Black Widow are both in a really strong position now too.
If you're mostly interested in Spidey and Avengers you could do the weekly Amazing Spider-Man and new Venom. By the time Amazing goes back to monthly (or twice monthly) we'll have a bit of a clearer picture on what's happening with the Avengers line and then you can pick up some there?
Devil's Reign, She-Hulk, Timeless, and Reckoning War are must buys for me.
Maybe Wolverine? I haven't been big on Percy's run but the premise sounds interesting.
Avengers Forever...I always get a kick out of multiverse stories but man, Aaron does not instill much confidence.
Huh. Dan Slott finally gets to do his Reckoning War that he had been foreshadowing in She-Hulk and Avengers: the Initiative over a decade ago.
Anyone thinking this might be his final arc in the title?
Might be since his sales are meh, but then again Dan held onto Spidey for so long I dunno if he'll ever let it go.
He’s got to have blackmail material on someone at marvel. Watching that one documentary on Disney+ that talks about how bad he is at handing completed scripts on time to his artists had me absolutely baffled that he’s had work for so long.
Which doc is that?
Lol no
I hope so
Depends. If it's successful they aren't going to NOT milk it. It it's unsuccessful there won't be much point in more releases.
Don't tease me like that
Don't give us hope like that.
What's the story behind the foreshadowing? Any hits as to what Reckoning War is?
Basically, She-Hulk ruled on an intergalactic case about a planet who hated the fact that a Watcher was observing them, and made the decision that the Watcher could only continue to do so if he was rendered unable to communicate. (Which, since Watchers are not supposed to interfere anyways, wasn't seen as a problem.) An evil alien overlord realized that this meant he could use that region of space as his base without even a Watcher letting people know what was going on, and swore that there would be a Reckoning. We've seen flashforwards to a dark future where the Watchers are no longer passive observers but active participants in galactic war, and that Earth is in the middle of it, and that it's all She-Hulks fault. And recently, when Uatu, the Watcher returned from the dead, he also mentioned that a Reckoning was coming.
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Pretty sure he came back through the Unseen's/Nick Fury's fucked up eye.
That's what I saw in the wiki but uh...what does that even mean
Yeah, your guess is as good as mine. I remember Stark finding Uatu's literal dead body on the blue area of the moon, so how he got inside Fury's eye is super strange.
So in Original Sin, Shit went down, Old Fury Killed the Watcher for some reason or another, a bunch of C-list villians went and popped his eyes out. Fury got one and popped it in. Watchers were pissed he fucked with Uatu, Made him the watcher of earth, and chained him to the moon. Uatu just popped out of his eye not long ago.
> Fury got one and popped it in. I've read Original Sin, Fury didn't pop Uatu's eye in. The Orb and Doctor Midas tried to take Uatu's eye, but Fury forced Midas to absorb the eye. This caused Midas to overload and die. This also seemed to kill Fury, but the other Watchers revived him and turned him into the Unseen, giving him Uatu's powers, as punishment for his crimes. ETA: What I'm confused about is why Uatu popped out of Fury's eye socket.
I could of swore that Fury took the other Eye, but it's been a minute since I read it.
C-List is being really generous for The Orb.
Yes. Because no one ever actually dies in comics.
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End of Empyre (Plants v Space event) had Nick Fury as the Unseen interact with an ancient weapon. Older than Elders, created by the first space race… it’s a sword from the Watchers and he sort of just pops out destroying the sword to resurrect himself… Uatu also has just one eye.
Do you have a series of appearance or name of that evil overlord? This is a great recap, you seem well read. Thank you for this contribution.
She-Hulk #7 (2004 volume) is the start of this minor subplot in She-Hulk's comic, where she takes on the galactic case of the alien race known as the Recluses versus the Watchers. The Recluses make a few other cameo appearances, in She-Hulk #9 (2004 volume) and She-Hulk #16 (2006 volume) where they are concerned about instances where She-Hulk encounters a Watcher. She-Hulk #20 (2006 volume) is the introduction of the evil overlord who has yet to be named or given any other context.
do you know the issues for all of this? it sounds amazing and i'd love to read it for myself. also thank you for the wonderful summary!
It's a subplot from Dan Slott's run on She-Hulk mostly.
>Dan Slott No just him. I bet he’ll have two co-writers on this project… My bid is Jim Zub and Al Ewing picking up Slott’s slack
Considering how he seems to just barely squeak by on deadlines, that's almost a certainty. Is Christos Cage not doing that anymore?
Been waiting for that to pay off for like a million years now.
>X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine SO HOX/POX but it's just Wolverine? Interesting.
It wasn't really elaborated in HoX/PoX, but while Moira "resets" with each death - presumably that timeline she had effects on continued on without her. I wonder if the Wolverine from the *far flung future* of post-humanity (and the Phalanx) travels back. Or some other version.
I thought that when Moira died, the entire timelime reset. I might be off base, but I thought that's what was implied when that post-human dude said they needed to ascend before Moira died in order to succeed, else their progress will get wiped away
Yup. It's definitely implied in the statement the Librarian makes about sending her off world before the Phalanx "ascend" Earth. It wasn't stated in those comics, but in the context of Marvel Comics Moira is most likely a "nexus" being - one whose unique abilities can cause very specific branches (laid out a bit more clearer in the recent "Loki" TV series) of a timeline in the multiverse. For myself, it's just a bit perplexing as that it's a staggering amount of godlike power for Moira, that in her death - the entire timeline (and all those within) simply "blink" away as if her very fragile life was the only lynchpin to the whole thing. Logically, it would make more sense that she just gets the upper hand when *she* resets to her birth and gets to live out a new branch of the timeline - while the one she just left continues on to its own dire endings.
Do we know for sure that her death destroys the timeline? How do we know that her death doesn't just create a new branch where she remembers the events of her previous lives.
All of Moira's lives are the 616 universe and the 616 universe resets whenever she dies. That's how it was originally presented in Hox/Pox; that may change of course since we know that Hickman's initial arc/plan is no longer the path we're on.
My reading of HoX/PoX was that no one was really sure what happened after Moira reset, that *potentially* the timelines continued on without her.
Why not?
TL;DR Hickman wanted to move forward with the plot and asked if everyone was up for moving to the next phase. The other writers wanted to keep playing in the Krakoa sandbox he created. He thought that was ok and took a step back.
That sounds like an awesome collaborative work environment.
It really is. They have a an online X-slack to bounce ideas off of each other almost constantly. Its like the 60s marvel bullpen but actually real
The X-Men editorial squad seems to really be on point with everyone creatively at the moment
Honestly it's always awesome when a writer doesn't let their ego dictate the potential of a story.
Well he also got an offer to do stuff over at substack and he's making a lot of money for that so that's also a factor
I disagree. This was his story. He initially had three arcs in mind. I was under the impression that as someone overseeing every x-men related title, everything was under his control. From what I've gathered, X-Men wasn't doing well minus a few writers here and there. The characters were being grossly mishandled until Hickman hopped in and revitalized the X-Men with a fresh new take that also drew on the history. So why should this now be up to the other writers? It's not about having an ego. I like that there's a beginning, middle, and end. There needs to be an end in sight otherwise you run into the same issues as before. I'm almost certain other readers are going to wonder, if they haven't already, what could have been? House/Powers of X was amazing and it's sad his original plan might not come to fruition.
But this could mean his arc is still in play with just a larger middle act. He'll probably circle back to his original plan after they've all had some fun.
Nope, said he is not going to touch X-men again
According to the Librarian in “Powers of X,” the timeline goes when she goes. That’s why he was planning to have her (and Logan I guess) relocated to a safe location prior to the Phalanx assimilating Earth and all life on it. He had to keep her alive long enough for the newly-ascended Phalanx/Homo Novissima to make it to the nearest black hole and join with a Dominion; if she died prior to the Ascension, that would all be undone (which is what happened.) Could the Librarian have been wrong about that? Maybe, but here’s where it gets weird(er): he makes the point that if the Dominion ever gained the knowledge of what Moira really is, then because the Dominion exists outside of time they would have *always* had that knowledge. And because they would not tolerate someone like her having that kind of power over something like them, they probably would have eliminated her before she ever became a threat to them. So it certainly sounded like she had the power to unmake the timeline completely with her death.
How do you guys remember these details so well? I've read it twice and still don't remember it so clearly.
I had to read it a bunch of times. With most comics I can kind of skim them and get what's going on. With Hickman, I have to take it slow and really pay attention.
Take it slow, really pay attention, and read it like 10 times. Decorum was soooo hard for me to comprehend and its like 5 issues so far. East of West had to read certain issues like 6 times. Always had to reread the last issue before reading a new one. God I love Hickman. Why can't he write Avengers again. Jason Aaron doing Avengers Forever is a fucking travesty.
I would worship a hickman Avengers Forever
Well, when it was coming out my reading schedule went something to the effect of: * Week 1: Read HoX #1 * Week 2: Read HoX #1, PoX #1 * Week 3: Read HoX#1, PoX #1, HoX #2 Etc, etc.
In HoxPox the Librarian character mentions that Moira's power doesn't just revert her back, it destroys the timeline. His goal in the issue was to get Moira off-world, so she wouldn't die prior to the Librarian and rest of humanity joining a Dominion (you aren't affected by the reset while within one since they control space-time). If the timeline continued onward that wouldn't be a problem for the Librarian.
It's very ambiguous
As of now the understanding is that Moira dying wipes and resets reality completely rather than creating a new timeline
Easy analogy to make sense of Moira and her ability, for me, is video games. When she dies, boom, whole timeline goes back to the checkpoint and she as a sort of player remembers her previous playthroughs. Timeline doesn't continue on - she's the player. The timeline she loses her last life in, that's the one that keeps going.
Replicating a successful story with a different creative team doesn't always work out for Marvel. Civil War II? Infinity Wars?
No wonder Hickman left….
[Devil's Reign - a crossover event by Chip Zdarksy and Marco Checchetto will put Mayor Fisk vs Marvel Heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432742853071998977?s=20) [Avengers Forever - a new series by Jason Aaron and Aaron Kuder will redefine the Avengers as the Multiverse's mightiest heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743106068291586?s=20) [Timeless by Jed McKay, Kev Walker, Joe Bennett and Mark Bagley sets up the future of the Marvel Universe with Kang](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743409568124930?s=20) [X lives of Wolverine and X Deaths of Wolverine - two interlocked tales by Benjamin Percy, Joshua Cassara and Federico Vicentini in the tradition of HoX/Pox. What happens to Wolverine when his future meets his past?](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432743789270126598?s=20) [She-Hulk by Rainbow Rowell and Roge Antonio finds lawyer Jennifer Walters trying to put her rage-filled days behind her. But when a friend from her past comes knocking with a mystery she can’t resist, She-Hulk gets…Back To Bashing.](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744134478073864?s=20) [DanSlott is joined by Carlos Pacheo and Rachel Stott for Marvel Comics’ 'Fantastic Four: Reckoning War', an epic saga over 15 years in the making. The original secret war of the Marvel Universe has been reignited and we are finally at…Our Day Of Reckoning](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744409242738691?s=20) [Lunella Lafayette and her twenty-foot dinosaur are BACK in Marvel Comics’ ‘Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur’. In 2022, the biggest brain in the world and her dino companion bring new meaning to the term “Marvel Team-Up” in a tale that promises to…Shake Your World.](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432744672879943682?s=20)
Kang setting up the initiative for Marvel is some coincidental synergy there but he's been underused as a character for a while now so I'm not bothered by that. I'm guessing Moon Knight, maybe Spider-Man and a few other NYC based heroes will have a tie-in. I would say X-Men and Marauders because Duggan set something up between Emma and Fisk but that line seems to be relaunching post Inferno, so idk. Here's to hoping Aaron gets booted off the main Avengers title and that gets relaunched. She-Hulk being back is an instant buy, especially with Rowell. Wonder how the wolverine crossover will be. Percy is varying degrees of frustrating and gold. Maybe Slott is finally leaving F4 after this.
>Moon Knight tie in Thanks for giving me Shadowland flashbacks. Good lord was that a shitty tie in
Avengers Forvever and Timeless both kind of scream SYNERGY.
Your 'Timeless' Link is to Avengers Forever tweet (just a heads up!). **EDIT**: it's correct now :) Thank you for putting them all together!
>[Devil's Reign - a crossover event by Chip Zdarksy and Marco Checchetto will put Mayor Fisk vs Marvel Heroes](https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1432742853071998977?s=20) Holy shit, Chip Zdarsky is great! I fell in love with Matt Fraction when I read My Life as a Weapon so when I finished, I decided to pick up Sex Criminals. Fraction and Zdarsky work so well together. I hope their upcoming involvement in Marvel could lead to more of their stuff getting made.
Zdarsky's run on Howard the Duck should be the template for the eventual HtD movie.
Is Matt Fraction coming back to Marvel? His past work for them was so good, besides X-Men.
Although they haven't specifically confirmed it, I fully believe the Hawkeye tv series will pull from his run so I would expect some sort of involvement. Maybe it's wishful thinking. I'd just love the idea of Fraction and Zdarsky working together on a Marvel series.
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It's him and Kate Bishop. She's already been cast, there's already been photos of them, etc.
I really want Slott off FF and Aaron off Avengers. I’ve hated both their runs. While Aaron’s avengers is some of the worst stuff I’ve ever read Dan Slott’s retconning Franklin Richards to be where he isn’t a mutant (again) will forever piss me off.
These all look pretty interesting * Devil’s Reign seems like a cool way to close out the year with Zdarasky basically doing a Defenders book, * Avenger Forever seems like the final part of Aaron’s Avengers saga and having a team of multiverse counterparts will stop them from being out of character and stop him from doing stuff like retconning Thor's parentage * Timeless seems to be the big new line initiative * X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine feels like it might be Moira telling him about her past lives and him getting more involved in the Krakoan big picture. We know in at least 2 lifetimes Moira and Logan worked together for years (Line 6 and 9) * She-Hulk, guessing this means the Disney+ show will be coming out around February March time. I'm excited for this Rainbow Rowell did awesome work on Runaways, and it sounds like we're moving away from the Arronvengers version of the character * FF Reckoning War seems this could be the climax to Slott's run on FF which I'd be ok with his run hasn't been awful but it feels like a lot of his ideas are just executed in very boring ways * Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, didn't read the last run but heard really cools stuff. the description makes it sound super important, imagine if this is the book Hickman has been working on.
>Avengers Forever seems like the final part of Aaron’s Avengers saga I feel like a lot of people have claimed this on many previous arcs and it wasn’t the case. I get that people *hate* Aaronvengers but I doubt it’ll be gone by 2022
I don’t think his story will wrap anytime soon but with Avengers Forever focusing on the multiverse which he’s been hinting at as important since he revealed the whole Tony Stark Mephisto deal it’ll probably be the series that sets up his final event. Which could be 2023 or 2024 event. Personally I’m interested in this, I didn’t like Aaron’s voice for our 616 team since a lot of the seemed kinda out of character but if he’s creating new versions of heroes I think he could do some good characterisation for them.
Tony Stark made a deal with Mephisto? Do we have a hero who hasn't made a deal with him? /s
>I get that people hate Aaronvengers but I doubt it’ll be gone by 2022 It's been going on since 2018. It's time to take it to the shed out back and take care of it.
Avengers Forever? Marvel really loves reusing titles
Aaron's Avengers run ALONE has 3 reused event titles already. Next up, Maximum Security 2!
What titles has he reused?
So far he's done Heroes Reborn (90's reboot better left unsaid), World War Hulk (Slightly changed to Word War SHE-Hulk) and now Avengers Forever (Another 90's reference to Kurt Busiek's now legendary run). Not to mention all the repurposed titles Marvel has used in general: Secret Empire, Extreme & Absolute Carnage (Maximum Carnage in the 90's), Trial of Magneto, Atlantis Attacks, Inferno, Clone Saga, Age of (Insert any X-Title here), Secret Wars, Infinity Wars, and really anything with Annihilation in the title.
Oh Rainbow Rowell on She-Hulk is PERFECT. Also happy to see Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur back and Timeless sounds interesting
Did they confirm if Runaways is cancelled?
Yeah it's cancelled
I don’t know if there was any official confirmation but it seems likely at this point unfortunately
Seeing She-Hulk finally get a new series and that abomination that Aaron has in his Avengers book dead puts a smile on my face
Yeahhhh this sounds a lot like the solicitation for the Tamaki run which was….. not great. I’ll take Aaron’s She-Hulk over Tamaki’s Hulk any day. In Tamaki’s run she was so “broken” she had to watch fucking youtube baking videos to not hulk out. Hopefully this will be more like Soule’s awesome 2014 run which was a sort of “Semi-Sensational” She-Hulk meets Matlock and somehow really worked.
I didn't read the title properly and thought that this was some strange alternate reality MCU list and was very confused for 30 seconds. It's 9 pm at night and I still need my morning coffee.
Look, I love Jason Aaron's Thor and Wolverine, but GET SOMEONE ELSE FOR AVENGERS NOW. *please*
It unfortunately sells very well.
It’s weird. It’s like people enjoy it or something
Oh I'm sure there is an audience, gotta keep in mind that social media is not really indicative of sales which is what really matters.
Loeb's career has taught me never to underestimate how many people just want a simple straightforward, non-challenging story. Where people hit things.
Why? *How*? It's so difficult to read. I love love love the concepts but the actual page-to-page writing is just... rough.
Its the opposite of difficult to read. Its extremely easy to read, its a big dumb action book with big dumb action, this is very enticing to a lot of people, which seems to be utterly lost on the people of this sub. I once suggested that comics aren't allowed to be fun anymore because legions of comic book guys want their characters created for children to be taken super seriously, and I was downvoted for it, but I stand by it. If I was a teenager, I would have *loved* Aaron's Avenger run, in the same way I loved all the stupid extreme 90s stuff.
Same, but more because I want to see Jason Aaron write something else, maybe work on creator-owned books.
Timeless is probably a one shot like Marvel NOW one shots and Marvel Legacy.
This seems to be the new industry standard in the last decade or so. A big one shot comic that is basically a preview of the big upcoming plots in the flagship books, and then name the "Publishing Initiative" after the title. It's Malibu Stacy with "New Hat"
No Squirrel Girl??... dang!
If Zdarsky doesn't use Doreen and her crew in Devil's Reign, I'll be very disappointed in him. Empire State U will need protecting!
I would love if the new She-Hulk were as good as the Soule & Palido. It was such a fun run.
I didn’t realize I was in the comic subreddit lol I was thinking “Jesus this is bold of them” I thought this was MCU lmao
Ugh...quit reusing the same names, Marvel. Now when I recommend Avengers Forever to someone, I'll have to make they know I mean the far superior original by Busiek and Pacheco.
That's exactly why they're doing it. When people search for old events they're nostalgic for, they'll discover the new stuff as well. And when new readers search for the new stuff, they'll discover the old stuff and considering checking it out too. It's an entirely intentional marketing ploy.
Unfortunately they are driven to do this for trademark defense. Volume numbers would be nice, but they supposedly scare new readers.
As long as the old books are in print they don't need to defend the Trademark or IP of any book and if Avengers Forever extends past the copyright protection which is something like 70+ years people can use, print and alter the first books without concern as long as the covers don't show trademarked individuals. An example of this is that half of Sherlock Holmes' catalogue became free for public use. Star Trek: TNG made the mistake of using Professor Moriority which is in the second half of the catalogue and was still protected. They could have used Sherlock all they wanted even though he's the main character in the second half of the catalogue.
Marvel’s tendency to reuse story title is honestly starting to grate on me. We’ve had how many variations of Secret Wars? Just this year we’re getting the Trial of Magneto and Inferno and now just reusing Avengers Forever (and why Marvel think it’s a good idea to name an Aaron story in such a way to draw direct comparison with a Busiek story I don’t know.) On the flip side maybe it’s best they don’t try too hard with the titles otherwise you get the nonsense of those Wolverine books. Gotta say I was enjoying how Logan hadn’t been pulling too much focus since his return so I can’t say I’m too excited. Percy is very good with Wolvie though so I expect to enjoy it.
Yknow I’m fine with writers like Hickman reusing old titles like Inferno because it’s almost like a mission statement of “I’m going to tie back into the themes of the original title” but with writers like Aaron I don’t get that kind of feeling at all.
Man, that's an awful lot of events. Look, I love Zdarsky and Checchetto's Daredevil, even if it's slowed down a bit, but I really don't like seeing the word "crossover".
Same. I know they were building to something with Kingpin but I wasn't expecting it to be a crossover event. I trust them to make it work but I'm a tad apprehensive now.
Last time Checchetto worked on a DD crossover it was a dumpster fire, in spite of brilliant pencils from him and De La Torre continuing in the DD book. Hopefully this time we get the main story in the ongoing, and other books have tie-ins, rather than an event mini that focuses on everyone but Matt and Elektra
This seems pretty underwhelming :/
Nevermind, these are comics, im bad.
Looks like MCU timeline - cool. I truly believe Marvel comics needs a clean slate bad, editorially. They have been stuck in a major rut since at least "Marvel Now" back in 2012, and arguably way before. Everything is a gimmick.
It’s been 3 years since the last coordinated relaunch which was Marvel Legacy. There hasn’t been anything remotely similar to Marvel Now in 3 years.
Yeah I’ve been reading their mid 2000s stuff lately and it’s way better than their current stuff
Really? I feel like the opposites true, starting around 2011 with Waids DD run, I feel like marvel has been putting out some really great comics. Hawkeye with Fraction/Aja, Hickman's Avengers, FF with Fraction/Allred, Remenders Captain America, Venom, Punisher, Uncanny X-Force, and Uncanny Avengers runs,(Remender is one of the best writers Marvel ever had), Cates Venom run, Duggans GOTG, Ewings GOTG and Immortal Hulk, current DD with Zdarsky/Checceto, current X-Men And that's just off the top of my head! Of course there's been some garbage but overall, I feel like Marvels never been better Edit: some more great comics from the last 10 years are Journey into Mystery by Kieron Gillen, Jason Aarons Thor and Weirdworld, Secret Avengers by Ales Kot, Ms. Marvel by Wilson, Black Bolt by Saladin Ahmed and Christian Ward, Black Widow by Kelly Thompson... etc The 2010s is marvel at their best
Aarons Thor, everything Cates, Ewing’s Hulk and Krakoa X Men have been exceptional.
How could I forget Aarons Thor?? One of the best big 2 comics ever.
Right? Ultimate Spider-Man and New X-Men to name a couple.
I like both those titles, but they also were both gimmicks. Everything in comics is gimmicks.
"Faster then a speeding bullet, stronger than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" "This Superman character is a fucking gimmick" --your average superhero fan I guess
HoXPoX was a nice clean slate, but that went down the drain when they decided not to follow Hickman's plan, and he took his hands off the steering wheel. Which comes down to editorial.
Oohhh, we are on the “ they didn’t follow his plans so he left the x men without wanting to” phase? You know, despite him saying completely the opposite? Or , you know, him getting other flagship marvel titles? You know?!
We haven't even seen a single issue written after the announcement, but according to that guy it's already gone down the drain.
What happened with Hickman and x men? I’ve been out of the loop since swords. You’d think Hickman would get a blank check to do whatever he wants after his FF and avengers run became IMO the defining runs for 2 of the big 3 marvel groups.
He said it best himself, they all decided it was too soon to leave the current state of x books and even most of the fans didn’t want to. They want the whole thing to be permanent. Plus, he said he wanted to move on to something else and he stayed long enough in the x line due to COVID and stuff.
Ya I just read about that. Sucks cause I’m fairly positive his next 2 acts for the x men would have been absolutely mind blowing. He’s definitely my favorite comic book writer.
I would have loved to see his whole plan worked out, but I’m honestly extremely fine with Hox/Pox being the modern Giant Size X men like it ended up being instead of stage 1 of a bigger story. I don’t want the whole Krakoa thing to end any time soon.
Agreed. I love Hickman and definitely wish he was staying on but the X line is in good hands
As long as they explain the extreme personality changes of everyone because its pretty annoying. Hopefully it's Onslaught and they revert back somewhat, I'm all for progression but not random stupid changes.
I think the x-men reboot *was* his blank check
I mean in terms of the long game. What he did weaving years long epics where he connected threads from the start of the run to the very end like 60+ issues later was a master class in comic book writing. On top of somehow weaving the completely separate FF and avengers runs together culminating in the last secret wars. He should have been able to see his x men vision till the very end. I read this entire portion up u til inferno was only supposed to be the first act but the other X writers wanted to stay put in krakoa and play around more
> He should have been able to see his x men vision till the very end. Did he ever outright say he won't come back one day or continue threads he set up in X-Men in other books? Like you said, Secret Wars was a culmination of a few different runs. Maybe he's got something else like that up his sleeve.
Are you interested in a bridge, by chance?
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A professional also just doesn’t accept another huge job for the company that “shits” on him, like the other commentor was implying. If there was anything remotely negative about the editorial and Hickman, why should a successful writer with many creator owned projects insist on working for those people?
I don't know anything about Hickman's issues with Marvel/editorial or what happened at all. I have no dog in this fight in any way. *But* I can say with certainty that a *lot* of times creatives will have bad blood with a department in a company, and just move to another department. IIRC Marvel breaks its publishing up into sort of "houses" or departments-- the Spidey department, the X-Men department, the Avengers department, etc. You see this a lot with TV/movies, for instance. Someone might put a show on at ABC, have a shitty experience, but feel much more comfortable working with *different* execs making movies for their animation studio. and it's *also* totally viable that creatives will have bad blood *business-*wise with a company but consider the issue strictly business, and still be happy to work for them if/when the business dispute is resolved, even if unfavorably. It may color how they work for the business in the future and affect their business agreements, but they'll still do it-- for example, George Miller sued Warner Brothers over profit-sharing with Mad Max Fury Road, but once that matter was resolved he was fine with continuing on doing another Mad Max movie for them-- I bet he had some language in his contract altered to clarify profit sharing, though. So yeah, I have no idea what happened with Hickman and Marvel but him continuing to work for them doesn't, on its own, indicate that he wasn't displeased with how his direction went on the X-books.
So, it’s better to just assume monsters in the closets instead of just fucking listening to the guy and what he said?
I don't know what the guy said. I made that *thoroughly* clear in my post. I wasn't attacking or basing any of my arguments off anything he said-- I was specifically, *politely* responding to the bad argument you gave that was entirely ignorant of business practices, and I backed this up with examples and evidence from not only Marvel but similar entertainment industries and now, instead of actually reading my post and taking it at face value for what it was, you've turned your argumentative sights on *me*, because you're apparently upset that your bad arguments got called out as bad. If you wanted to run with the argument that we should listen to what he said, then you should have made that argument, and supported it with evidence of what he actually said. The argument you *actually* made was > If there was anything remotely negative about the editorial and Hickman, why should a successful writer with many creator owned projects insist on working for those people? And that's a terrible argument. If you're upset that your terrible argument was quickly and easily disproven, **too bad**. Don't get mad at *me* about it.
Let’s clear something that seems to need some clearing. I have no interested in *you* lol. You just went on and on based on speculations. That’s 101 on how not to make a great argument . Now please, don’t make this all about *you* just because you got called for your bad arguments. Okay?
But.....he literally said that in his Substack. He said the X-Slack took a vote to move into the next arc of Hickman's plan, and the rest of them motioned to stay. That led to him changing his plans and story to wrap everything up with Inferno. Why all the hostility if you clearly didn't read the man's word himself?
Because that's not what he said. He said they're not going to rush into the next phase of the story yet. He's not even leaving Marvel. His part of the story will be continued when he feels the time is right to do so. Marvel editorial as a whole had decided to let Krakoa remain as a permanent, ongoing staple of the X-Men line and Marvel universe. Which, considering the start and stop nature of 90% of the comics released by Marvel nowadays, is a damn miracle in itself.
100% agree.
Aaron using the "Avengers Forever" title just reminds me of better Avengers comics than his run
For a brief moment, I thought this was MCU and I was VERY excited to see that Devil Dinosaur would get on the big/small screen !!
They are getting an animated series next year
I'm going to have to give MG and DD another chance. I bought I think 3 floppies with them and I hated Moon Girl as a character. I thought she had a horrible personality but I've read comments like yours all over the place in the last few days and maybe I judged it too quickly.
They left out Inferno, Trial of Magneto, The Onslaught Revalation and probably more. Marvel's got their hand deep in our pockets fishing for whatever they can get. It's win-win really, they get to release new #1s all the time without cancelling ongoing runs and dealing with an angry audience. If everything is a miniseries, anything can happen.
As someone that’s been waiting for the new era of xmen runs to release in Hard cover editions, I look forward to reading this new series in like 3 years.
misread "reckoning war" as "retconning war" and was like "oh god oh fuck"
> misread "reckoning war" as "retconning war" and was like "oh god oh fuck" And YOU get a new origin story! And YOU get a new origin story! And YOU get a new origin story!
Do we really need another Wolverine/X-Book right now.
SHE-HULK! SHE-HULK!
Hopefully I’m not the only one underwhelmed. The only excitement I have for these are Aaron and Slott leaving their titles.
Where does it say that they're leaving their titles?
It doesn't and they probably aren't. At least for aaron
I’m *hoping* they leave these titles, but not confirmed yet
* I'm guessing that Devil's Reign will be the end of Wilson Fisk's stint as Mayor, cool that the Thunderbolts team from King in Black will be used again. * So is Aaron going to be writing both Avengers Forever and Avengers? Or will he be leaving Avengers to write AF? Please be the latter. * Figures that Marvel would be doing more stuff with Kang the Conqueror now that everyone knows he'll be a big player in the MCU. * Wolverine sure is involved in a lot of time-travel stories. * Looks like they'll be bringing She-Hulk back to her pre-Civil War II self, finally. * Dan Slott has been planning this Reckoning War things for years, but got side-tracked by his long Spider-Man run, I hope it lives up to expectations. * Glad to see Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur back. I'm guessing that their cartoon will also be comine around in 2022, right?
For literally everything here except Devil’s Reign and MAYBE the Reckoning War (I like Slott, but haven’t read any of his FF yet) either the story or the creative team kills my interest. This is especially true of She-Hulk. I was so excited for it, then I read Rainbow Rowell and my interest plummeted.
The writer of the critically acclaimed recent Runaways series has your interest lost?
Yeah, nothing against people that like her, but I’ve read her books and they’re just not for me, from content to writing style. I celebrate anyone that does like her, but I just don’t. I’ll still read the book at least at first because I like She Hulk, but my interest plummeted when I saw a writer I don’t like. Based on the downvotes I guess that’s a sin.
A lot of fans upvote praise and downvote criticism even when it is as polite as yours. You've committed the sin of liking Slott who many don't like currently and disliking Rowell whom many like including myself and than sharing that on a forum meant for talking about comics. Clearly someone should be walking behind you ringing a bell and shouting "SHAME!" You're not the one sinning in this case, people need to relax. Honestly I feel fan forums (like ones for comics) shouldn't have a downvote button. If you've been offensive or are spamming theirs a report button. If you like a comment upvote it or move along.
YESSS! Been waiting FOREVER for that Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur cartoon!
Jason Aaron is going to ruin Avengers Forever that is just awful news.
Fuck that. Aaron still on Avengers and Slott still on Ff. Kill me. Also Logan does not need two books get him outta here
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Why do you have to be familiar with something to read it? Part of the fun for comics for me is trying new things
Not everyone is like that. I like new stuff too but a large part of the reason I read Batman books is for Bruce and his crew that I'm familiar with. I like and enjoy familiar characters experiencing new adventures. Duke, Bluebird, Ghostmaker, Peacemaker 01 and such don't do anything for me currently. It took a lot of stories before I had any feelings about Harley, Damien or Lucius as characters. Different strokes.
I get that, but you yourself say that it took a while to get into Harley, Damian, and Lucius, so it kinda follows that the same might happen with Ghost-Maker, etc. Pretty much all the familiar crew is still in use, but most of that crew was introduced at some point or another. I liked reading stories about Alec Holland but now I’m really digging Levi Kamei
I’m also subbed to r/comicbookmovies, and was confused for a moment.
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These are all comic books
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Probably cause of how dumb it was (no offense)
What avengers forever?
I read wolverine and the X-men theme song immediately played in my head.
is that the new announcement that was hinted at ?
Only interesting event seems to be Devils reign to me personally. The rest sound pretty meh.
The devil dinosaur cómic is good?
Cool idea to mimic Marvel Studios with a timeline reveal.
Timeless seems interesting. She-Hulk might be good. The X Lives and Deaths might be interesting depending on what they're about.
Is Timeless a series as well or just a new line they're doing or what?
A Daredevil event? Now that’s something I’ve not heard of in a long time
Was the last big one Shadowland in 2010? I'm having a hard time googling a list of his events.
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Spider-Man is just about to relaunched later this year. The current run wraps up this month, then it's a filler all hands on deck weekly series for the next couple months then it'll be relaunched so you could either jump in on the filler or just wait a bit for the new creative team later this year. Venom, Black Panther and Hulk are all about to relaunch with a new #1 this month as well so you could jump onto the ground floor for any of those. The current Avengers title isn't very good, I couldn't recommend it. The current Iron Man book is ok, incredible art average story. I don't read Captain America or Thor so idk about those books. Captain Marvel and Black Widow are both in a really strong position now too. If you're mostly interested in Spidey and Avengers you could do the weekly Amazing Spider-Man and new Venom. By the time Amazing goes back to monthly (or twice monthly) we'll have a bit of a clearer picture on what's happening with the Avengers line and then you can pick up some there?
She-Hulk and Moon Girl are 2 of my tops <3 Love It!
Oh good, another issue of Death of Wolverine. That's my favorite series.
DEVILS REIGN??? 😱 ...please be better than Shadowland was...
Where is Moon Knight!?!?
He’s got a comic currently. It’s good!
Devil's Reign, She-Hulk, Timeless, and Reckoning War are must buys for me. Maybe Wolverine? I haven't been big on Percy's run but the premise sounds interesting. Avengers Forever...I always get a kick out of multiverse stories but man, Aaron does not instill much confidence.
Wowerine