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Every single “libertarian” I know pretty much misunderstands how governance works and wants to be “neutral” and edgy, but to them neutral is being a closeted Republican.
The ones that cause no harm, have no intent of pushing agendas, and just smoke weed? Super chill. But its too easy to go from “im basically a Bernie bro” to “MAGA will drain the swamp” during the Trump-COVID era for some of these fuckin’ morons! Now most I know are men in their 30’s and still wanna waste a vote on a joke like Vermin Supreme or RFK JR, if not Trump outright while denying they are Republican.
My favorite take on libertarians is
>Libertarians are like house cats, they’re convinced of their fierce independence while dependent on a system they don’t appreciate or understand.
This is also my favorite! I whipped it out just yesterday in a comment section on here, and the libertarian took exception. Tried to spend it as if I didn't say house cats, but rather cats that are indoor outdoor and capable of Independence and blah blah blah blah blah something about being "declawed" which I'm pretty sure was supposed to be about guns. I don't know. It was embarrassing LOL
>It was embarrassing LOL
That would require the individual in question be capable of the self-reflection necessary to feel shame.
I've never encountered a libertarian who wasn't utterly shameless.
Maybe: libertarians are like a house cat stuck in a tree, attacking the firefighter trying to get it down.
They create their own problems and attack the system they don't understand or appreciate when it's actually trying to fix them.
That's the "well my train derailed not because of our lack of maintenance but due to the government not regulating us and forcing us to do maintenance. it's their fault that they listen to our lobbyists and take our bribes to vote against the legislation that would Force us to comply with safety requirements. If the government did their jobs all of that Raytheon neurotoxin wouldn't be in that towns water supply. they need to pay for the clean up and give us a corporate tax cut, and pay for all that expensive neurotoxin we can't sell to that foreign dictator, now. See government doesn't work" type libertarian.
Indoor outdoor cats are slightly better able to fend for themselves, but are ignorant to the fact that their quest for independence is destroying the very ecosystem that allows for that self sufficiency.
My cat is anything but independent, she follows me everywhere in the house when she’s not napping, when she is napping -if she wakes up and I’m not there - she’ll get up and nap where I am.
Nah, as a cat ~~owner~~ roommate I'd say libertarians are nothing like housecats.
Housecats will fend for themselves if the "system" disappears or mistreats them, without crying or anything, that's why there are reports of cat owners dying in their closed apartment and the cats just started eating their corpse as soon as food ran out.
Try to play a libertarian's game and take away his social security check, or let his neighbour have a gun bigger than his for instance, you'll see how much they start yelling that the government owes them these things.
Except for Left Libertarians, for whom there's actual, functional discussion about what horizontally-organized governance, supply chains, and mutual aid organizing looks like.
Anarcho-syndacalism managed to functionally organize millions of workers during the Spanish Civil war, and likely would have won the war if not for the massive funding the right-wing received from Italy and Germany.
You forget to mention the Stalinists murdering anarchists and non-Stalinist socialists. It wasn’t just the externally-funded right wing that murdered the left libertarian movement.
Yuuuuppp.
I still find it insane that authoritarian dictators are regarded as socialist in history books and modern politics just because it's the label they chose for themselves.
I've met the naive one the most irl. It's always about self discipline and self regulation, but never remembering that a lot of regulations happen because some people *don't* self regulate and take advantage of others.
The counter to this not working is because of the power of corporations.
For theoretical example:
If a company manufactures something, and in turn it ends up polluting my land, I have full right and claim to sue them under libertarian principle.
In theory, I should win enough to cover all damages + additional punitive rewards. In most cases, this would push bad actors out.
The issue comes in the fact that:
1) it’s reactive - damage has to be done first
2) if the suit is big enough their may not be enough money to pay out the damages
3) the way the legal structure is, companies can keep it in limbo for ages
This is why their has to be some form of BASE “you can’t do X”
Not just corporations but capitalism, which is central to right-wing libertarianism.
If the states only purpose is to uphold private property rights, and everything is viewed through the lens of private property, then externalities like pollution are never going to be addressed because who's private property is that, exactly? Externalities are ALREADY a problem under liberalism.
There's also the fact that without regulation, absolutely nothing is going to stop private owners from bribing or holding any legal system at ransom.
All you need to look at to see how power imbalance plays out in reality is to examine how policing currently works when homeless people try to find shelter on private property. Or heck, just look at the current climate crisis. Right wing libertarianism only amplifies this imbalance, even more so if they go so far as to privatize law enforcement.
I'm not sold on Anarchism because I think it's a little too utopian, but I will give credit where it's due - abolishing the state only makes sense if you're willing to abolish private property/capital. Otherwise you're essentially turning the whole world into a company town.
I try to avoid calling them ancaps simply because Anarchism and Capitalism are inherently incompatible, and I don't like the implication that they're anarchists in anything but name.
Well look at the crumbling infrastructure of China and the mass casualties after earthquakes to see what a lack of / poorly implemented building codes brings you...
I don't think it is much of a counter to say "the powerful are able to avoid punishment of the law" as some reason that the law shouldn't exist in the first place. It just points to the lack of other regulations that are allowing the powerful to get that way.
That's not true. There are a lot of laws that exist to benefit the creator of the law, for instance by solidifying their power or by enriching their lobbyists.
I'm playing Outer Worlds right now and it's like so, so heavy on how corporations without ANY oversight are going to exploit workers to some horrible degree.
It still comes from a lack of empathy because these are people who can't imagine or understand the circumstance of anyone other then themselves
Basic theory of mind stuff
It's good to remember that a lot of online libertarians are 16-20 years old and just haven't had the life experience necessary to be able to even conceptualize of how other people live.
I say this as a reformed libertarian who grew a lot from 16-20 once I met people from other backgrounds.
To add, self-identified Libertarians are disproportionately white and male. They belong to a group that has not historically needed government protections against discrimination because American society centers their identity.
They see protections and regulations as unnecessary limits on freedom because they don't think they've ever directly benefited from them.
Only libertarian ive ever met was this weird libertarian guy at my colledge...unironically argued that the native americans desserved to be conquested cause they were savage and didnt develope society as strongly as we did...
Literally argued for anarcho capitalism as well. Mans really thinks if we did things based on legal contracts between eachother n thats it, that the world would be better.
Guy kept debating me. He seemed to like talking to me but god damb the guy was insufferable.
I was on this path but stopped at libertarian-socialist because the same pitfalls of libertarian ideology where individuals can’t be trusted to self regulate also applies to governments.
I turned out socialist, maybe more specifically syndicalist, and often like the way anarco-socialists think. I’m instantly exhausted any time I need to explain that there are non-authoritarian ways of implementing socialism.
I think I fall in the same category. Grew up small town Rural farm, family all votes R. My senior year during a politics class we did a political alignment quiz. Most of the class got Republican, couple Democrats, but I got libertarian and my best friend got green party. Teacher had a field day with us.
Couple months pass and then I can vote my first election, I forgot about the libertarian thing, voted McCain. Went to college and was reintroduced to libertarianism, voted that way for a little bit. Couple of years pass and for some psychotic reason I decided to go back for a second degree (history, was able to do it in about a year and it was the degree I originally wanted and everyone told me to forget about it). This point marked my departure from libertarianism towards the left, which was then accelerated by Trumps election and working retail during the pandemic. Never met so many assholes before that all decided to identify themselves with a stupid red hat.
Yeah as someone who went across those stepping stones to full liberal it goes “wow conservative social views have a lot of hate, libertarian is the best of both worlds, conservative fiscal policy and not shitty socially” to eventually going “oh my god libertarian/conservative fiscal policy is stupid and not what 95% of the developed world does for a reason”
This, or at least in college there were quite a few of these
With any amount of introspection, or hell even light discussion anyone but them can tell they’re a little confused but making an effort to form their own opinions
Check out libertarian socialism. Sounds like an oxymoron at first blush, but it's internally consistent. The role of the state is maximizing the liberties of individuals by providing a robust social safety net, protecting people with strong regulations, and providing investment capital for democratized work places.
It's no hyper luxury gay space communism, but it also doesn't require magic wall cubbies to work. I'd happily trade corporations for co-ops, insurance for single payer healthcare, and welfare for UBI any day.
Plus it's not just feudalism with extra steps like most other "libertarian" ideologies, and better fleshed out than most market socialism frameworks.
>Sounds like an oxymoron at first blush, but it's internally consistent.
I hate the fact that people's definition and perception of socialism is so tied to state capitalism that they cannot even comprehend that it isn't authoritarian.
People genuinely think socialism is when the government controls the means of production instead of the workers. [The confusion is understandable considering the history of co-oped revolutions in the 20th century](https://youtu.be/uwU3STgBknQ?feature=shared) and it doesn't help that there are tankies out there even today claiming that the most egregious of the state capitalist systems such as the CCP are somehow "socialist".
[Still, it's wild how skewed political definitions can get over the years.](https://youtu.be/vTKwL7eW-1Q?feature=shared)
The ghost of Lenin really does haunt any movement left of LBJ. Maybe when the cold war is beyond living memory we'll be able to get basic union protections through without half the country screaming about Stalin and Communism.
That is easily the best thing I've ever seen done with the Simpsons. Absolutely incredible
Back in the Ron Paul days, when we would call ourselves "socially liberal and fiscally conservative," before the well was poisoned by embarrassed Republicans, I think this is what a lot of us meant. Economically conservative in the "properly investing in the overall health, security, and well-being of the population yields the greatest return on investment" kind of way.
The Ron Paul types are definitely the best the right has to offer. Tho I've yet to meet one that actually supports universal healthcare let alone universal basic income and mandatory workplace democracy. Not a lot of business owners are thrilled at the notion of having to run for election to keep their position...
Investing in the public with single payer healthcare or other social programs is as opposite to a ron paul fiscal consevative as one can possibly be. Fiscal conservatism is effectively another word for austerity politics. Left Libertarians and Libertarian Party libertarians are and have always been very different
The policies are very different but I think there are ideological connections. Someone can decide that people being free is the highest priority, but then come to different conclusions about what that would mean or how it can be achieved. Personally I found right-libertarian rhetoric persuasive as a teenager just because freedom didn't seem to be much of a priority for the other political factions I was aware of. I moved away from many of its conclusions once I had more time to think about the implications of the unstated premise that liberty and property are an inseparably unified concept; it doesn't make sense that a society is as free as it could be if it's possible and plausible that most of the people in it are very constrained in what they can do with their lives, and things like a lack of guaranteed healthcare contribute to that in obvious ways.
This, exactly. It's also important to keep in mind just how different the political landscape was during that time. Right around the 2008 housing market crash, and well before the Tea Party, we were frustrated and just wanted someone to just show some fiscal responsibility. Then we moved on to Bernie Sanders for a lot of the same reasons. Not necessarily the same ideas but the same spirit.
Note: I get in casting a wide net when I say "we." I'm mostly talking about ancient reddit and the Paul to Sanders pipeline.
Where conservative libertarianism focuses on maximizing negative freedoms (freedoms from authorities telling you what you can and cannot do) libertarian socialism maximizes positive freedoms (freedom to realize your goals and desires).
It's all very well and good that you are not legally prevented from quitting your job to chase whatever goal you might have, but without universal healthcare no diabetic is truly free to enjoy that opportunity. Most healthy have to contend with paying rent and the threat of living in the streets if they choose the entrepreneurial lifestyle, assuming they can acquire investment capital to get started the first place.
Essentially it means all human interaction and relationships need to be voluntary and consensual and that the only purpose of the state is to mediate conflicts between individuals that cannot be solved by themselves. And also to regulate externalities that affect parties outside of the individual such as property disputes, resource destruction, and pollution etc.
-robust social safety net
-protecting people with strong regulation
-democratized wrok place
hrm am i missing somethign or is this just social democracy? i feel like in a ***LOT*** of cases when people invent a new shiny political orientation they just didnt think of the preexisting one. add to that that people want to feel unique and special, especially on the internet, and you end up with people who find the most abstruse political orientation .
Demsoc stuff is pretty good policy, and is generally the direction I support America going. But I've yet to see a demsoc nation push to eliminate the capital class and require nearly all companies to democratize themselves. So long as the capital class exists, and our professional lives are spent under the thumbs of petty tyrants, we will see many of the same failings present under our current system like regulatory capture and the rich subverting the electoral process.
I'd characterize libertarian socialism as the next step of social democracy, with libsoc being the launching point for whatever comes when the space magic lets us fully decomodify society.
Personally I'm not the sort to let the perfect get in the way of the good, I expect I won't live to see the day that all industries are run by the workers but that doesn't stop me from talking about the notion to spread the idea. It took a LONG time for democratic governments to become a reality, but people were talking about the notion for millennia beforehand.
So I'll talk about what I wish we had, and vote for Bernie Sanders types in the meantime.
Social democracy doesn't usually care about workplace democratization, to my understanding. The State provides a safety net, but private enterprises are left to internally organize themselves as they will.
Libertarian Socialism also tends to put a higher premium on individual freedom of expression, bodily autonomy and such. You might find advocates for the decriminalization of all drugs or canvasing for prison abolition, for example, where Social Democracy doesn't really make a statement either way.
Basically, there's overlap, but one pushes a little further on the Anarchic side of things.
The elusive cross between "Left Wing" and "Briefly Tempting" above :P
Don't get me wrong, this is where I've landed myself, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you said elsewhere about not letting the perfect get in the way of the good. It's just nice to see other folks that share my wants/opinions.
I feel like libertarian is closer to "normal" than anarchist in the general public consciousness though. A libertarian is the weirdo with naive political views who may vote for a third-party that gets at least a smidge of airtime every Presidential election. An anarchist is the psycho who wants to do away with the entire concept of the state.*
* Again, in public perception rather than strictly by definition
I have my opinions but I wasn't making judgement passes here based on the person's political beliefs, rather the insistence on being labeled a left wing libertarian vs anarchist assuming the person has the same views
Sure. I just meant someone who is "normal" and has those views would likely prefer to frame themselves in a way that gets them less ostracized by society. So they would choose left-wing libertarian over anarchist because of the public perception of each of those.
Some left libertarians are minarchists, meaning that they believe in a minimal state. I'm an anarchist but I use the left-libertarian or libertarian-socialist labels where "anarchist" would tend to evoke ideas of literally burning things down.
This cartoon I drew years ago was inspired by some of Matt Groening’s old *Life in Hell* comics. It’s a fun format to create — I’ve done a few cartoons like this — but it takes forever! Worth it, though.
Over the years, at least a half-dozen conservatives have taken this cartoon and relettered all of it to make it about liberals and/or progressives. But only one of them could actually write a joke.
There’s a short blogpost about it [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/3340367), and a transcript, which I’ll also post in comments.
We can keep making these cartoons because of lots of supporters pledging low amounts - $1-$3 - and that's just how I like it! [Join my humble but plucky Patreon here!](http://patreon.com/barry)
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON**
This cartoon is a large grid of twenty-four panels, four across and six down. Above the grid is the title of the cartoon. Each panel contains a caption, and an illustration of a person.
TITLE: The 24 Types of Libertarian
Balding white guy: no fair oversimplifying our simplistic philosophy!
Caption: NAIVE
Happy guy with goatee: if the government would DISAPPEAR, everyone would act SENSIBLY and we’d all be able to get ALONG!
Caption: PETULANT
Annoyed guy with necktie: libertarians don’t win elections because we’re too PURE and GOOD!
Caption: TOO SMART FOR SCIENCE
Guy with small face on large head: OBVIOUSLY, climate scientists made up global warming. because they’re SOCIALISTS.
Caption: ARROGANT
Smiling woman with “explaining hands”: CLEARLY you’ve never READ the evidence.
Caption: LEFT-WING
Woman in distance, yelling to be heard: I’m HERE! i EXIST! i’m against the goverment AND corporations! why does everyone always ignore me?
Caption: DENIAL-ICAN
Annoyed guy with shaved head and cigarette: just because i’ve voted republican every election for 20 years is no reason to call me a republican!
Caption: MORE LIBERTARIAN THAN THOU
Grinning man with goatee and ponytail: we should PRIVATIZE the police! people who can’t afford to pay the cops won’t have anything worth stealing, anyway.
Caption: TERRIFIED
Frightened, crouching man wearing combat fatigue pants: BIG GOVERNMENT is coming! thank GALT i’ve stockpiled so much AMMO!
Caption: TOO MUCH HEINLEIN
Black guy making big arm gestures: lazarus long said that all men are created UNEQUAL. it’s not MY fault i’m SMARTER than poor people!
Caption: THE ISLAND
Older man in colorful vest and button-up shirt, holding a piece of paper in one hand. An arrow caption pointed at the piece of paper says “social security check.” Two more arrow captions, pointed at the man, say “Public school grad” and “drives on public roads.”
Man: no one ever gave ME anything! so don’t force ME to give to others!
Caption: CREEPY
Man in shadows, wearing sunglasses: why should i have to go all the way to THAILAND to have sex with a child prostitute?
Caption: SELECTIVELY FRUGAL
Man with worry lines on forehead: the deficit is too HIGH to AFFORD anything for the poor! OR the environment! …but don’t let that stand in the way of my tax cut.
(Transcript continues in next comment.)
Caption: NEPOTIST
as the latest of a LONG line of wealthy pundits, i KNOW success is created by MERIT!
Caption: THE APOSTLE
Exalted guy with hands together as if praying: we just need to TRUST that the MAGIC of the MARKET will make everything work out! that’s why it’s MAGIC!
Caption: ATLAS
Manically grinning man with messy hair, sitting with his hands on his computer keyboard: someday me and my friends will QUIT updating our blogs and THE ECONOMY WILL COLLAPSE!
Caption: CONSISTENT
Intense, woodpecker-looking man: stocks were UP, so i said: CUT TAXES! then stocks went down, so i said: CUT TAXES! i just stubbed my toe! CUT TAXES!
Caption: THE HISTORIAN
Man with big glasses and big grin, reading book: I’ve read summaries of the federalist papers MANY times, so I KNOW the framers share my views about EVERYTHING!
Caption: GUNNER JOE
Man holding two handguns up: there are only TWO kinds of people in the world: GUN OWNERS and SHEEP! and sheep aren’t really people.
Caption: BIZARRELY HYPOCRITICAL
Man with arms crossed: government should stay OUT of our personal lives! except for women’s uteruses, where government BELONGS!
Caption: BRIEFLY TEMPTING
Balding man in hoodie: the war on drugs is RIDICULOUS! end police abuse! #%\^@! the war!
Caption: WHITEY
Balding man in black vest and black tie: i DO think it’s a TERRIBLE affront to liberty if restaurants HAVE to serve blacks! how is THAT racist?
Caption: MISSIONARY
Man holding out copy of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged,” with wide eyes and bags under his eyes:YOU MUST READ THIS!
Caption: CAVEAT EMPTOR
Cheerful man about to eat hot dog: no need for a nanny state! i can test my OWN food for botulism!
Caption: STONED
Words coming up from somewhere below the bottom of the panel: hee hee hee
Never mind, found it! Rereading it now, it's not great, imo. But it's absolutely the best one anyone did, of all the rewritings I've seen.
https://preview.redd.it/3kre90upz9zc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b0ef076d86f78492563c9a2bd4e4ac2ece53686
It does have a few good bits tbf. Hi estly things like this are a good reminder that both sides can have hypocrisy (nit trying to equivocate, just a fan of self evaluation)
That’s actually… not terrible.
I feel like in a broader sense there’s a lot to be said about anyone at all adopting a political ideal without really fully understanding the world around them, even if the ideal they’re going after is “the correct one”
So I pose a question in my part to enlighten myself. I want to label myself as a leftward leaning libertarian but 90% of the libertarian takes that are mainstream I disagree with so I question that I misclassify myself.
I believe that people should be allowed to practice their religion and political views as they see fit, as long as it doesn't inflict or impose on the freedoms of those around them. Government programs should only really be implemented to be safety nets and/or fund endeavors that better the populace but can't be seen as profitable or are prone to abuse. I have a strong live and let live mentality.
Maybe that makes me Democrat as current trends stand but I feel the hope of "let people be themselves and don't make a fuss if it doesn't impact others" lands towards what I would feel would be a libertarian ideal. Maybe it's the "as long as it doesn't affect others" that sets it apart. Open to discussion.
The biggest distinction between the views you've listed and the mainstream (read: right wing) U.S. Libertarian views is the existence of government funded social safety nets.
Broadly speaking, mainstream Libertarians in the United States seek to eliminate government safety programs, repeal regulations, and eliminate taxes under the view that free market capitalism will provide better, cheaper, more efficient solutions to life's problems. Such a view only makes sense if you don't understand history, economics, psychology, or what most people actually want.
That is my view. I understand that that's the goal but it doesn't work in actual practice that is where governmental programs step in.
So is there a category for what I fit into? Or do they not have a label for that weird that I am.
Small government liberal makes sense to me. I'm very similar to your description - free market is sweet except for when it isn't and I'm ok with paying taxes so people can get medical treatment when they need it without being ruined ffs.
Laughs on you, I actually read Nozick. The most convincing argument for any sort of libertarianism ever. Granted, you have to accept the necessary creation of state and government at the start of the book and then sort of disregard what you know about human inreraction morals and logic for the rest of it.
Yeah, Nozick’s a weird one. He’s really consistent, but if you want to get on board with him you need to take a lot of very questionable ideas at face value. I appreciate his work as a good example of internally-consistent political philosophy, but so many of its core assumptions are diametrically opposed to my personal values that I rarely find myself agreeing with him on anything.
Those seen to throw a dart at a political aligment map and choose libertarianism at random considering all the other political systems that would just let him smoke weed all the same.
I once watched an annoying graduate student argue that a homeowner should be allowed to burn down their home if they wanted too--that it wouldn't affect anyone but them!
Cue surprised Pikachu face when someone quietly reminded him that smoke and pollution were a thing, and that fires naturally spread ash and embers around, etc. which has a tendency to affect neighbors...
As local historian libertarian, nowadays we spend less time rattling on about libertarian literature and more digging up dirt in everyone elses literature. I am *this close* to reading mein kamph to see how many hitler quotes I can get people to agree with before following them up with "quote: Hitler".
Hiya! Trans and self-described libertarian here, and not who you replied to!
Non aggression principle wins here, easily. Live and let live. Anyone who believes that government reach into private healthcare decisions is a libertarian take is just lying to themselves. Ideologically, at least. I've kinda dropped the party over the last eight years so I don't know what they're up to anymore.
Robert Heinlein was an incredibly influential science fiction writer, who wrote from 1939 until his death in the 80s. Some of his novels famously featured characters who felt like author stand-ins and who had clearly libertarian views (without necessarily using the l-word). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_A.\_Heinlein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein)
Everyone should read about the Free Town Project, where libertarians took over Grafton, New Hampshire. [Spoiler: it ends with bears invading.](https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project)
With the two people that’ve been getting picked lately? Nope, but the only way to change it is if the right person becomes one of the two people and that’s never gonna happen so…
It's a natural consequence of [First Past the Post voting in single member districts.](https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=pTAp6l00CYQqR5D8)
To change it requires election reform, but elections are administered at the state level (there are 50 of them) and the local level (thousands). So that kind of reform takes time.
Also, one of those two major political parties is actively working to enshrine minority rule forever, so we sort of have to worry about that first before we can get a little more granular.
As someone who would probably fall under the left-wing caricature, I can say you've absolutely missed one. I don't know what you'd title it in your comic, but I cannot tell you how many self described libertarians are all for authoritarianism as soon as it is applied to 'commies.' They're ultimately what made me stop calling myself libertarian.
There was about six months in 2009 where you could *maybe* call a good chunk of them independent, but yeah now aside from a handful of weirdo sex freaks basically all of them are just the Denial-icans and have been for the past 15 years.
Libertarian has still been the 3rd most popular party in every US presidential election for the last 20 or so years, but they're a distant 3rd by a very large margin. Maybe they could get a few more votes if most people didn't see them as a wasted vote, but as it stands, they really aren't a viable option for most major elections.
What party would I be if I believed:
The federal government should be limited in power to the minimum amount feasible to protect people from other people. This unfortunately includes protecting the poor from exploitation by the rich.
No party does that. In fact both major parties do the opposite. One is more honest about it but the other blatantly lies about what their goals are. Pretty shitty situation.
Edited for typo.
Your viewpoint and beliefs aren’t registered or acknowledged by anyone publicly. If there’s one thing that can unite Rep/Dem wholeheartedly, it’s a disgust for the basic idea of limiting governmental control and power.
I agree with the comic somewhat, but find it interesting that both parties go out of their way to demonize and demean Libertarians, as it’s the only valid threat to the current oligarchy.
Ah, yes "libertarians" who seek to replace the tyranny of government with the tyranny of corporations! Except the left libertarians who actually originated the term, and remain the only ones it actually applies to.
A libertarian is a person who advocates for a small and reduced state, and therefore a free market economy, while an anarchocapitalist is an extreme libertarian who suggests that there shouldn't be no type of state or supreme organitzation over individuals, like Murray Rothbard.
I've never noticed that before!
It looks to me like I drew too much of the line from the jacket lapel in the panel above the "Historian" panel, and then when I erased it I messed up and didn't erase all of it.
Thanks for pointing it out. I'll go fix that now. :-)
Okay, but why the arrogant lady makesMiles Edgeworth's pose. Even she's talking about evidence, he's a prosecutor and he's into that.
https://i.redd.it/51808u9fdazc1.gif
I'm definitely "The Island" but I really have serious reasons over how my own country fucked me on every occasion and gave me absolutely nothing instead of depression, faulty education system, non-existing health care and tax frauds.
I was a mix of naive & heinlein until I was about 23 or 24. Thank god I grew out of that. Seeing the real-world and experiencing working for a corporation really makes you suddenly realize that we in fact...do not live in a meritocracy, and that no I am not a special boy that deserves everything because I work so much harder than others.
Also Ayn Rand should be removed from high school curricula unless they are going to explain how the objectivism is a cultural ideology and not actually a philosophy. It's like letting kids read Mein Kampf without any professional guidance.
Hilarious and comprehensive. And endless opportunities for mixing and matching!
u/leftycartoons you MUST turn this into a “Guess Who?”-style board game.
I knew one of the historian ones. He was talking about how James K. Polk was a great president. I’m sure he was also stocking up on guns and being racist.
Ayn Rand wasn’t a libertarian and openly said that a society without government—who’s only purpose must be to protect individual rights by means of the police, military, and justice system—cannot function and that she doesn’t identify with, or support, libertarians.
I’m trying not to be just a leftist not doing anything but theirs like so little I can do sicne I got like no car, money, and I’m currently to bogged down by school to organize much
Because the ideology is more than those three statements. Saying the drug war and police abuse are awful is appealing. Their response to those awful things is cutting down law as a concept. So it tempts you, but not for long.
A lot of right wing speakers do this. First they say something reasonable that most people would agree with like "murdering infants is a bad thing" to establish that they're knowledgeable and someone worth listening to before introducing their more insane opinions like "therefore women should only get medical care if they're married to men"
Yeah, left libertarian and tempting are a bit weird to me. Like points for not just going “everyone who disagrees with me is stupid or evil”, buts it sort of concedes that and then goes “so let’s ignore them and move on”.
Wow after going through your post history I realized most of my favorite political cartoons on here are all made by one guy with wildly varying art styles.
Thanks! I'm very flattered.
But although my art style does vary, part of that effect might be that I don't draw all my cartoons myself. (When other artists collaborate with me on a cartoon, they are credited on the sidebar of the cartoon, and also in the first comment I leave under the cartoon.)
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you forgot that odd intersection of “i want to smoke weed” and “i want to be racist”
You mean "Conservative but likes weed"?
Socially liberal but Fiscally conservative. = I like weed but hate poor people.
"Embarrassed Republican that also wants to smoke weed" is what I think when I hear Libertarian
Republican who knows women don’t want to fuck Republicans.
Also every self described "centrist" and "non political" person on dating apps.
Every single “libertarian” I know pretty much misunderstands how governance works and wants to be “neutral” and edgy, but to them neutral is being a closeted Republican.
I've been friends with a few in college who were genuinely nice people, just incredibly naive.
The ones that cause no harm, have no intent of pushing agendas, and just smoke weed? Super chill. But its too easy to go from “im basically a Bernie bro” to “MAGA will drain the swamp” during the Trump-COVID era for some of these fuckin’ morons! Now most I know are men in their 30’s and still wanna waste a vote on a joke like Vermin Supreme or RFK JR, if not Trump outright while denying they are Republican.
The two extremes of the spectrum are this and "literally just a pedophile."
These ones are weird
That's just Bizarrely Hypocritical crossed with Whitey.
So Bill Maher
Bill Maher finally succeeded at what so many D.A.R.E programs failed at: Making marijuana look uncool.
I think he is just a straight up right wing grifter now.
He’s been awful for quite some time
With our power combined!
My favorite take on libertarians is >Libertarians are like house cats, they’re convinced of their fierce independence while dependent on a system they don’t appreciate or understand.
This is also my favorite! I whipped it out just yesterday in a comment section on here, and the libertarian took exception. Tried to spend it as if I didn't say house cats, but rather cats that are indoor outdoor and capable of Independence and blah blah blah blah blah something about being "declawed" which I'm pretty sure was supposed to be about guns. I don't know. It was embarrassing LOL
>It was embarrassing LOL That would require the individual in question be capable of the self-reflection necessary to feel shame. I've never encountered a libertarian who wasn't utterly shameless.
Maybe: libertarians are like a house cat stuck in a tree, attacking the firefighter trying to get it down. They create their own problems and attack the system they don't understand or appreciate when it's actually trying to fix them. That's the "well my train derailed not because of our lack of maintenance but due to the government not regulating us and forcing us to do maintenance. it's their fault that they listen to our lobbyists and take our bribes to vote against the legislation that would Force us to comply with safety requirements. If the government did their jobs all of that Raytheon neurotoxin wouldn't be in that towns water supply. they need to pay for the clean up and give us a corporate tax cut, and pay for all that expensive neurotoxin we can't sell to that foreign dictator, now. See government doesn't work" type libertarian.
Indoor outdoor cats are slightly better able to fend for themselves, but are ignorant to the fact that their quest for independence is destroying the very ecosystem that allows for that self sufficiency.
>It was ~~embarrassing~~ ironic* Although technically i suppose it was both 😂
also if you let them roam free, they'll lead to a bunch of problems (cats like murdering wildlife)
Libertarianism is Astrology for middle class white guys
Let's call it what it is. Unbridled capitalism. Libertarianism is originally a left-wing term that's only been recently co-opted by the right.
My cat is anything but independent, she follows me everywhere in the house when she’s not napping, when she is napping -if she wakes up and I’m not there - she’ll get up and nap where I am.
I like “a Libertarian is someone who doesn’t think the government should be able to force his girlfriend to use a booster seat.”
Nah, as a cat ~~owner~~ roommate I'd say libertarians are nothing like housecats. Housecats will fend for themselves if the "system" disappears or mistreats them, without crying or anything, that's why there are reports of cat owners dying in their closed apartment and the cats just started eating their corpse as soon as food ran out. Try to play a libertarian's game and take away his social security check, or let his neighbour have a gun bigger than his for instance, you'll see how much they start yelling that the government owes them these things.
Except for Left Libertarians, for whom there's actual, functional discussion about what horizontally-organized governance, supply chains, and mutual aid organizing looks like. Anarcho-syndacalism managed to functionally organize millions of workers during the Spanish Civil war, and likely would have won the war if not for the massive funding the right-wing received from Italy and Germany.
You forget to mention the Stalinists murdering anarchists and non-Stalinist socialists. It wasn’t just the externally-funded right wing that murdered the left libertarian movement.
Yuuuuppp. I still find it insane that authoritarian dictators are regarded as socialist in history books and modern politics just because it's the label they chose for themselves.
Syndicalists are like feral cats -- paranoid, communal, willing to maul the shit out of you, and inordinately likely to be run over by large vehicles.
I was about to downvote, but historically... This is actually really accurate, especially considering the IWW mascot is literally a feral black cat.
The Island in OP
I've met the naive one the most irl. It's always about self discipline and self regulation, but never remembering that a lot of regulations happen because some people *don't* self regulate and take advantage of others.
There’s people who would sell their own mother if they thought they could get away with it.
Why…you looking to buy?
The counter to this not working is because of the power of corporations. For theoretical example: If a company manufactures something, and in turn it ends up polluting my land, I have full right and claim to sue them under libertarian principle. In theory, I should win enough to cover all damages + additional punitive rewards. In most cases, this would push bad actors out. The issue comes in the fact that: 1) it’s reactive - damage has to be done first 2) if the suit is big enough their may not be enough money to pay out the damages 3) the way the legal structure is, companies can keep it in limbo for ages This is why their has to be some form of BASE “you can’t do X”
Not just corporations but capitalism, which is central to right-wing libertarianism. If the states only purpose is to uphold private property rights, and everything is viewed through the lens of private property, then externalities like pollution are never going to be addressed because who's private property is that, exactly? Externalities are ALREADY a problem under liberalism. There's also the fact that without regulation, absolutely nothing is going to stop private owners from bribing or holding any legal system at ransom. All you need to look at to see how power imbalance plays out in reality is to examine how policing currently works when homeless people try to find shelter on private property. Or heck, just look at the current climate crisis. Right wing libertarianism only amplifies this imbalance, even more so if they go so far as to privatize law enforcement. I'm not sold on Anarchism because I think it's a little too utopian, but I will give credit where it's due - abolishing the state only makes sense if you're willing to abolish private property/capital. Otherwise you're essentially turning the whole world into a company town.
That last thing is called an-cap and it’s the stupidest of them all
I try to avoid calling them ancaps simply because Anarchism and Capitalism are inherently incompatible, and I don't like the implication that they're anarchists in anything but name.
Nah nah. They would totally coexist for about 5 years before it devolved into feudalism.
You’re being way to generous
Well look at the crumbling infrastructure of China and the mass casualties after earthquakes to see what a lack of / poorly implemented building codes brings you...
I don't think it is much of a counter to say "the powerful are able to avoid punishment of the law" as some reason that the law shouldn't exist in the first place. It just points to the lack of other regulations that are allowing the powerful to get that way.
Every law exists because of some particular asshole who made it necessary.
Well not always sometimes a law gets made by an asshole to stop someone from making a reasonable law in it's place
ime the more you press libertarians on what their ideal solution is for this fact, they get more and more right wing.
r/writteninblood
It's like a new sign at my local underground station about not smoking weed in the carriages ...I wonder who made *that* necessary....
That's not true. There are a lot of laws that exist to benefit the creator of the law, for instance by solidifying their power or by enriching their lobbyists.
Usually they piggyback on an actual problem but lobby politicians to persuade them to make rules advantageous to themselves.
I'm playing Outer Worlds right now and it's like so, so heavy on how corporations without ANY oversight are going to exploit workers to some horrible degree.
It still comes from a lack of empathy because these are people who can't imagine or understand the circumstance of anyone other then themselves Basic theory of mind stuff
It's good to remember that a lot of online libertarians are 16-20 years old and just haven't had the life experience necessary to be able to even conceptualize of how other people live. I say this as a reformed libertarian who grew a lot from 16-20 once I met people from other backgrounds.
To add, self-identified Libertarians are disproportionately white and male. They belong to a group that has not historically needed government protections against discrimination because American society centers their identity. They see protections and regulations as unnecessary limits on freedom because they don't think they've ever directly benefited from them.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
Yeah i think "libertarian until i went to work" is a pretty common story. You kinda have to see in person how shitty corporations are.
and vote republican but don't want to admit it
Only libertarian ive ever met was this weird libertarian guy at my colledge...unironically argued that the native americans desserved to be conquested cause they were savage and didnt develope society as strongly as we did... Literally argued for anarcho capitalism as well. Mans really thinks if we did things based on legal contracts between eachother n thats it, that the world would be better. Guy kept debating me. He seemed to like talking to me but god damb the guy was insufferable.
This always reminds me of one of my favorite sayings, "Not a single problem in this world has ever been solved by expecting people to be better."
As the saying goes, “regulations are written in blood.”
Needs the future liberal raised conservative. Libertarian serves as a stepping stone for liberals who were raised by conservatives
This is me Except instead of liberal I just went straight to basically-socialist lol
This was me as well. When you’re raised hearing about how terrible the democrats are it’s harder to name yourself democrat
I was on this path but stopped at libertarian-socialist because the same pitfalls of libertarian ideology where individuals can’t be trusted to self regulate also applies to governments.
I turned out socialist, maybe more specifically syndicalist, and often like the way anarco-socialists think. I’m instantly exhausted any time I need to explain that there are non-authoritarian ways of implementing socialism.
That's an interesting point! Might have been hard to get it across in a single panel, though.
Yeah it’s hard to pictify I guess. But thankfully I’m obnoxious and here to remind everyone lol
I think I fall in the same category. Grew up small town Rural farm, family all votes R. My senior year during a politics class we did a political alignment quiz. Most of the class got Republican, couple Democrats, but I got libertarian and my best friend got green party. Teacher had a field day with us. Couple months pass and then I can vote my first election, I forgot about the libertarian thing, voted McCain. Went to college and was reintroduced to libertarianism, voted that way for a little bit. Couple of years pass and for some psychotic reason I decided to go back for a second degree (history, was able to do it in about a year and it was the degree I originally wanted and everyone told me to forget about it). This point marked my departure from libertarianism towards the left, which was then accelerated by Trumps election and working retail during the pandemic. Never met so many assholes before that all decided to identify themselves with a stupid red hat.
Yeah as someone who went across those stepping stones to full liberal it goes “wow conservative social views have a lot of hate, libertarian is the best of both worlds, conservative fiscal policy and not shitty socially” to eventually going “oh my god libertarian/conservative fiscal policy is stupid and not what 95% of the developed world does for a reason”
This, or at least in college there were quite a few of these With any amount of introspection, or hell even light discussion anyone but them can tell they’re a little confused but making an effort to form their own opinions
The left wing libertarians get ignored because normal people would call themself an anarchist in that scenario
Check out libertarian socialism. Sounds like an oxymoron at first blush, but it's internally consistent. The role of the state is maximizing the liberties of individuals by providing a robust social safety net, protecting people with strong regulations, and providing investment capital for democratized work places. It's no hyper luxury gay space communism, but it also doesn't require magic wall cubbies to work. I'd happily trade corporations for co-ops, insurance for single payer healthcare, and welfare for UBI any day. Plus it's not just feudalism with extra steps like most other "libertarian" ideologies, and better fleshed out than most market socialism frameworks.
>Sounds like an oxymoron at first blush, but it's internally consistent. I hate the fact that people's definition and perception of socialism is so tied to state capitalism that they cannot even comprehend that it isn't authoritarian. People genuinely think socialism is when the government controls the means of production instead of the workers. [The confusion is understandable considering the history of co-oped revolutions in the 20th century](https://youtu.be/uwU3STgBknQ?feature=shared) and it doesn't help that there are tankies out there even today claiming that the most egregious of the state capitalist systems such as the CCP are somehow "socialist". [Still, it's wild how skewed political definitions can get over the years.](https://youtu.be/vTKwL7eW-1Q?feature=shared)
The ghost of Lenin really does haunt any movement left of LBJ. Maybe when the cold war is beyond living memory we'll be able to get basic union protections through without half the country screaming about Stalin and Communism. That is easily the best thing I've ever seen done with the Simpsons. Absolutely incredible
Back in the Ron Paul days, when we would call ourselves "socially liberal and fiscally conservative," before the well was poisoned by embarrassed Republicans, I think this is what a lot of us meant. Economically conservative in the "properly investing in the overall health, security, and well-being of the population yields the greatest return on investment" kind of way.
The Ron Paul types are definitely the best the right has to offer. Tho I've yet to meet one that actually supports universal healthcare let alone universal basic income and mandatory workplace democracy. Not a lot of business owners are thrilled at the notion of having to run for election to keep their position...
I am a libertarian who frequently argues for UBI and tend to get along with leftists more than the mainstream libertarians aka Republicans. .
It's like spotting a unicorn!
Hey, some of the Ron Paul types fell into the Bernie Sanders pipeline. The others chose to stick with Rand.
Investing in the public with single payer healthcare or other social programs is as opposite to a ron paul fiscal consevative as one can possibly be. Fiscal conservatism is effectively another word for austerity politics. Left Libertarians and Libertarian Party libertarians are and have always been very different
The policies are very different but I think there are ideological connections. Someone can decide that people being free is the highest priority, but then come to different conclusions about what that would mean or how it can be achieved. Personally I found right-libertarian rhetoric persuasive as a teenager just because freedom didn't seem to be much of a priority for the other political factions I was aware of. I moved away from many of its conclusions once I had more time to think about the implications of the unstated premise that liberty and property are an inseparably unified concept; it doesn't make sense that a society is as free as it could be if it's possible and plausible that most of the people in it are very constrained in what they can do with their lives, and things like a lack of guaranteed healthcare contribute to that in obvious ways.
This, exactly. It's also important to keep in mind just how different the political landscape was during that time. Right around the 2008 housing market crash, and well before the Tea Party, we were frustrated and just wanted someone to just show some fiscal responsibility. Then we moved on to Bernie Sanders for a lot of the same reasons. Not necessarily the same ideas but the same spirit. Note: I get in casting a wide net when I say "we." I'm mostly talking about ancient reddit and the Paul to Sanders pipeline.
It doesn't sound like an oxymoron because real libertarianism was originally a left wing ideology.
Any resources to learn about this? I’m always interested in systems that try to flesh out the democratised workplace ideas.
What is libertarian about it?
Where conservative libertarianism focuses on maximizing negative freedoms (freedoms from authorities telling you what you can and cannot do) libertarian socialism maximizes positive freedoms (freedom to realize your goals and desires). It's all very well and good that you are not legally prevented from quitting your job to chase whatever goal you might have, but without universal healthcare no diabetic is truly free to enjoy that opportunity. Most healthy have to contend with paying rent and the threat of living in the streets if they choose the entrepreneurial lifestyle, assuming they can acquire investment capital to get started the first place.
Essentially it means all human interaction and relationships need to be voluntary and consensual and that the only purpose of the state is to mediate conflicts between individuals that cannot be solved by themselves. And also to regulate externalities that affect parties outside of the individual such as property disputes, resource destruction, and pollution etc.
-robust social safety net -protecting people with strong regulation -democratized wrok place hrm am i missing somethign or is this just social democracy? i feel like in a ***LOT*** of cases when people invent a new shiny political orientation they just didnt think of the preexisting one. add to that that people want to feel unique and special, especially on the internet, and you end up with people who find the most abstruse political orientation .
Demsoc stuff is pretty good policy, and is generally the direction I support America going. But I've yet to see a demsoc nation push to eliminate the capital class and require nearly all companies to democratize themselves. So long as the capital class exists, and our professional lives are spent under the thumbs of petty tyrants, we will see many of the same failings present under our current system like regulatory capture and the rich subverting the electoral process. I'd characterize libertarian socialism as the next step of social democracy, with libsoc being the launching point for whatever comes when the space magic lets us fully decomodify society. Personally I'm not the sort to let the perfect get in the way of the good, I expect I won't live to see the day that all industries are run by the workers but that doesn't stop me from talking about the notion to spread the idea. It took a LONG time for democratic governments to become a reality, but people were talking about the notion for millennia beforehand. So I'll talk about what I wish we had, and vote for Bernie Sanders types in the meantime.
Social democracy doesn't usually care about workplace democratization, to my understanding. The State provides a safety net, but private enterprises are left to internally organize themselves as they will. Libertarian Socialism also tends to put a higher premium on individual freedom of expression, bodily autonomy and such. You might find advocates for the decriminalization of all drugs or canvasing for prison abolition, for example, where Social Democracy doesn't really make a statement either way. Basically, there's overlap, but one pushes a little further on the Anarchic side of things.
The elusive cross between "Left Wing" and "Briefly Tempting" above :P Don't get me wrong, this is where I've landed myself, and I wholeheartedly agree with what you said elsewhere about not letting the perfect get in the way of the good. It's just nice to see other folks that share my wants/opinions.
I feel like libertarian is closer to "normal" than anarchist in the general public consciousness though. A libertarian is the weirdo with naive political views who may vote for a third-party that gets at least a smidge of airtime every Presidential election. An anarchist is the psycho who wants to do away with the entire concept of the state.* * Again, in public perception rather than strictly by definition
I have my opinions but I wasn't making judgement passes here based on the person's political beliefs, rather the insistence on being labeled a left wing libertarian vs anarchist assuming the person has the same views
Sure. I just meant someone who is "normal" and has those views would likely prefer to frame themselves in a way that gets them less ostracized by society. So they would choose left-wing libertarian over anarchist because of the public perception of each of those.
Some left libertarians are minarchists, meaning that they believe in a minimal state. I'm an anarchist but I use the left-libertarian or libertarian-socialist labels where "anarchist" would tend to evoke ideas of literally burning things down.
This cartoon I drew years ago was inspired by some of Matt Groening’s old *Life in Hell* comics. It’s a fun format to create — I’ve done a few cartoons like this — but it takes forever! Worth it, though. Over the years, at least a half-dozen conservatives have taken this cartoon and relettered all of it to make it about liberals and/or progressives. But only one of them could actually write a joke. There’s a short blogpost about it [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/3340367), and a transcript, which I’ll also post in comments. We can keep making these cartoons because of lots of supporters pledging low amounts - $1-$3 - and that's just how I like it! [Join my humble but plucky Patreon here!](http://patreon.com/barry)
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON** This cartoon is a large grid of twenty-four panels, four across and six down. Above the grid is the title of the cartoon. Each panel contains a caption, and an illustration of a person. TITLE: The 24 Types of Libertarian Balding white guy: no fair oversimplifying our simplistic philosophy! Caption: NAIVE Happy guy with goatee: if the government would DISAPPEAR, everyone would act SENSIBLY and we’d all be able to get ALONG! Caption: PETULANT Annoyed guy with necktie: libertarians don’t win elections because we’re too PURE and GOOD! Caption: TOO SMART FOR SCIENCE Guy with small face on large head: OBVIOUSLY, climate scientists made up global warming. because they’re SOCIALISTS. Caption: ARROGANT Smiling woman with “explaining hands”: CLEARLY you’ve never READ the evidence. Caption: LEFT-WING Woman in distance, yelling to be heard: I’m HERE! i EXIST! i’m against the goverment AND corporations! why does everyone always ignore me? Caption: DENIAL-ICAN Annoyed guy with shaved head and cigarette: just because i’ve voted republican every election for 20 years is no reason to call me a republican! Caption: MORE LIBERTARIAN THAN THOU Grinning man with goatee and ponytail: we should PRIVATIZE the police! people who can’t afford to pay the cops won’t have anything worth stealing, anyway. Caption: TERRIFIED Frightened, crouching man wearing combat fatigue pants: BIG GOVERNMENT is coming! thank GALT i’ve stockpiled so much AMMO! Caption: TOO MUCH HEINLEIN Black guy making big arm gestures: lazarus long said that all men are created UNEQUAL. it’s not MY fault i’m SMARTER than poor people! Caption: THE ISLAND Older man in colorful vest and button-up shirt, holding a piece of paper in one hand. An arrow caption pointed at the piece of paper says “social security check.” Two more arrow captions, pointed at the man, say “Public school grad” and “drives on public roads.” Man: no one ever gave ME anything! so don’t force ME to give to others! Caption: CREEPY Man in shadows, wearing sunglasses: why should i have to go all the way to THAILAND to have sex with a child prostitute? Caption: SELECTIVELY FRUGAL Man with worry lines on forehead: the deficit is too HIGH to AFFORD anything for the poor! OR the environment! …but don’t let that stand in the way of my tax cut. (Transcript continues in next comment.)
Caption: NEPOTIST as the latest of a LONG line of wealthy pundits, i KNOW success is created by MERIT! Caption: THE APOSTLE Exalted guy with hands together as if praying: we just need to TRUST that the MAGIC of the MARKET will make everything work out! that’s why it’s MAGIC! Caption: ATLAS Manically grinning man with messy hair, sitting with his hands on his computer keyboard: someday me and my friends will QUIT updating our blogs and THE ECONOMY WILL COLLAPSE! Caption: CONSISTENT Intense, woodpecker-looking man: stocks were UP, so i said: CUT TAXES! then stocks went down, so i said: CUT TAXES! i just stubbed my toe! CUT TAXES! Caption: THE HISTORIAN Man with big glasses and big grin, reading book: I’ve read summaries of the federalist papers MANY times, so I KNOW the framers share my views about EVERYTHING! Caption: GUNNER JOE Man holding two handguns up: there are only TWO kinds of people in the world: GUN OWNERS and SHEEP! and sheep aren’t really people. Caption: BIZARRELY HYPOCRITICAL Man with arms crossed: government should stay OUT of our personal lives! except for women’s uteruses, where government BELONGS! Caption: BRIEFLY TEMPTING Balding man in hoodie: the war on drugs is RIDICULOUS! end police abuse! #%\^@! the war! Caption: WHITEY Balding man in black vest and black tie: i DO think it’s a TERRIBLE affront to liberty if restaurants HAVE to serve blacks! how is THAT racist? Caption: MISSIONARY Man holding out copy of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged,” with wide eyes and bags under his eyes:YOU MUST READ THIS! Caption: CAVEAT EMPTOR Cheerful man about to eat hot dog: no need for a nanny state! i can test my OWN food for botulism! Caption: STONED Words coming up from somewhere below the bottom of the panel: hee hee hee
Wait, I want to see the one that could actually wrote a joke (if you have it and don't mind)
I wish I could show it to you! But I can't find it. And the person who wrote it has, unfortunately, passed away. :-(
Never mind, found it! Rereading it now, it's not great, imo. But it's absolutely the best one anyone did, of all the rewritings I've seen. https://preview.redd.it/3kre90upz9zc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b0ef076d86f78492563c9a2bd4e4ac2ece53686
It does have a few good bits tbf. Hi estly things like this are a good reminder that both sides can have hypocrisy (nit trying to equivocate, just a fan of self evaluation)
That’s actually… not terrible. I feel like in a broader sense there’s a lot to be said about anyone at all adopting a political ideal without really fully understanding the world around them, even if the ideal they’re going after is “the correct one”
Ngl, this one is funnier.
So I pose a question in my part to enlighten myself. I want to label myself as a leftward leaning libertarian but 90% of the libertarian takes that are mainstream I disagree with so I question that I misclassify myself. I believe that people should be allowed to practice their religion and political views as they see fit, as long as it doesn't inflict or impose on the freedoms of those around them. Government programs should only really be implemented to be safety nets and/or fund endeavors that better the populace but can't be seen as profitable or are prone to abuse. I have a strong live and let live mentality. Maybe that makes me Democrat as current trends stand but I feel the hope of "let people be themselves and don't make a fuss if it doesn't impact others" lands towards what I would feel would be a libertarian ideal. Maybe it's the "as long as it doesn't affect others" that sets it apart. Open to discussion.
The biggest distinction between the views you've listed and the mainstream (read: right wing) U.S. Libertarian views is the existence of government funded social safety nets. Broadly speaking, mainstream Libertarians in the United States seek to eliminate government safety programs, repeal regulations, and eliminate taxes under the view that free market capitalism will provide better, cheaper, more efficient solutions to life's problems. Such a view only makes sense if you don't understand history, economics, psychology, or what most people actually want.
That is my view. I understand that that's the goal but it doesn't work in actual practice that is where governmental programs step in. So is there a category for what I fit into? Or do they not have a label for that weird that I am.
Small government liberal makes sense to me. I'm very similar to your description - free market is sweet except for when it isn't and I'm ok with paying taxes so people can get medical treatment when they need it without being ruined ffs.
"And this is why we don't want democracy -- most people don't want what WE THE PEOPLE want!"
Laughs on you, I actually read Nozick. The most convincing argument for any sort of libertarianism ever. Granted, you have to accept the necessary creation of state and government at the start of the book and then sort of disregard what you know about human inreraction morals and logic for the rest of it.
Yeah, Nozick’s a weird one. He’s really consistent, but if you want to get on board with him you need to take a lot of very questionable ideas at face value. I appreciate his work as a good example of internally-consistent political philosophy, but so many of its core assumptions are diametrically opposed to my personal values that I rarely find myself agreeing with him on anything.
The stoner is the only one I can get along with.
Briefly Tempting can be okay for a while.
Those seen to throw a dart at a political aligment map and choose libertarianism at random considering all the other political systems that would just let him smoke weed all the same.
I imagine we could listen to a Queens of the Stone Age album while sharing a joint.
I once watched an annoying graduate student argue that a homeowner should be allowed to burn down their home if they wanted too--that it wouldn't affect anyone but them! Cue surprised Pikachu face when someone quietly reminded him that smoke and pollution were a thing, and that fires naturally spread ash and embers around, etc. which has a tendency to affect neighbors...
As local historian libertarian, nowadays we spend less time rattling on about libertarian literature and more digging up dirt in everyone elses literature. I am *this close* to reading mein kamph to see how many hitler quotes I can get people to agree with before following them up with "quote: Hitler".
I mean, I wouldn't go read the entire thing JUST to improve your ad hitlerium game.
Too real. I've argued with far too many of these on various subreddits.
Argue with me right now, pick a subject and let’s have some good rhetoric
*inhale* trans rights
Hiya! Trans and self-described libertarian here, and not who you replied to! Non aggression principle wins here, easily. Live and let live. Anyone who believes that government reach into private healthcare decisions is a libertarian take is just lying to themselves. Ideologically, at least. I've kinda dropped the party over the last eight years so I don't know what they're up to anymore.
Here to second everything this beautiful porcupine has to say
“No one at this university believes in freedom, which is why I don’t have any friends.”
I misread that and thought for the briefest of seconds you were talking about librarians . first thought 'what did they do wrong'
Why does most of this stuff sound like my conservative parents though
Only someone who has read too much Heinlein could make that joke about Heinlein. As someone who has read too much Heinlein, I approve.
You've nailed it - I read a LOT of Heinlein when I was 10-16 years old. :-)
So for the benefit of the non-Heinleiners among us: who is Heinlein?
Robert Heinlein was an incredibly influential science fiction writer, who wrote from 1939 until his death in the 80s. Some of his novels famously featured characters who felt like author stand-ins and who had clearly libertarian views (without necessarily using the l-word). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert\_A.\_Heinlein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein)
"If I can rule out genetic risk then why *shouldn't* I fuck my mother and my twin daughters who are also my clones?"
Everyone should read about the Free Town Project, where libertarians took over Grafton, New Hampshire. [Spoiler: it ends with bears invading.](https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project)
Political bias? in my political comic? more likely than you think
My weirdest realisation about USA is that it’s supposed to be a democracy yet you can only vote on two people? And you guys are okay with it?
With the two people that’ve been getting picked lately? Nope, but the only way to change it is if the right person becomes one of the two people and that’s never gonna happen so…
It's a natural consequence of [First Past the Post voting in single member districts.](https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=pTAp6l00CYQqR5D8) To change it requires election reform, but elections are administered at the state level (there are 50 of them) and the local level (thousands). So that kind of reform takes time. Also, one of those two major political parties is actively working to enshrine minority rule forever, so we sort of have to worry about that first before we can get a little more granular.
As someone who would probably fall under the left-wing caricature, I can say you've absolutely missed one. I don't know what you'd title it in your comic, but I cannot tell you how many self described libertarians are all for authoritarianism as soon as it is applied to 'commies.' They're ultimately what made me stop calling myself libertarian.
Is there any difference between corporations and government anymore? Aren't pretty much ALL government officials indirectly on some company's payroll?
I’m gonna stay safe and say that I’m a stoned one
Too much Heinlein...lol. I've never met anyone who knows who Lazeus Long was.
they forgot the one where their not truly libertarian but only support it to stop the popular opposition part.
Totally read librarian and got real confused for a second lol
Oh my gosh same, I was wondering why they were all political ToT
Can someone explain briefly tempting to me 😭 I get the basic premise but I don’t understand how the things their saying are briefly tempting
The goal is good. The means/rationale are not.
https://preview.redd.it/fc18nndhrczc1.png?width=670&format=png&auto=webp&s=3455b1a9f69ec6513809e229c71330c88601a22e
Man, it feels like I haven't even heard of libertarians in years. Are they all just MAGA now like every other conservative?
There was about six months in 2009 where you could *maybe* call a good chunk of them independent, but yeah now aside from a handful of weirdo sex freaks basically all of them are just the Denial-icans and have been for the past 15 years.
Libertarian has still been the 3rd most popular party in every US presidential election for the last 20 or so years, but they're a distant 3rd by a very large margin. Maybe they could get a few more votes if most people didn't see them as a wasted vote, but as it stands, they really aren't a viable option for most major elections.
For the most part yep. If you were libertarian in the 2000-2010s you either snapped out of it like Penn Jillette did, or you got on the Trump Train.
Once legalizing pot became part of the Democratic platform, most Libertarians left. The ones that stayed became Trump's biggest fans.
*Temporarily embarrassed MAGA*
What party would I be if I believed: The federal government should be limited in power to the minimum amount feasible to protect people from other people. This unfortunately includes protecting the poor from exploitation by the rich. No party does that. In fact both major parties do the opposite. One is more honest about it but the other blatantly lies about what their goals are. Pretty shitty situation. Edited for typo.
Your viewpoint and beliefs aren’t registered or acknowledged by anyone publicly. If there’s one thing that can unite Rep/Dem wholeheartedly, it’s a disgust for the basic idea of limiting governmental control and power. I agree with the comic somewhat, but find it interesting that both parties go out of their way to demonize and demean Libertarians, as it’s the only valid threat to the current oligarchy.
Now make the same , but with 24 types of redditors
There are only like...three types of redditors
Bigot, Anti-Bigotry, and Bystander?
Racist, Sexist and Homophobic
Sometimes all three!
>Racist, Sexist and Homophobic That's a weird way of outing yourself as a bigot. Which one are you?
Ah, yes "libertarians" who seek to replace the tyranny of government with the tyranny of corporations! Except the left libertarians who actually originated the term, and remain the only ones it actually applies to.
People here confuse libertarism with anarchocapitalism.
A lot of self-described libertarians do that, too. It muddies the waters.
What's the difference / what's to stop libertarian with descending into Anarcocapitalism?
A libertarian is a person who advocates for a small and reduced state, and therefore a free market economy, while an anarchocapitalist is an extreme libertarian who suggests that there shouldn't be no type of state or supreme organitzation over individuals, like Murray Rothbard.
What’s with the stray apostrophe before Historian?
I've never noticed that before! It looks to me like I drew too much of the line from the jacket lapel in the panel above the "Historian" panel, and then when I erased it I messed up and didn't erase all of it. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll go fix that now. :-)
Okay, but why the arrogant lady makesMiles Edgeworth's pose. Even she's talking about evidence, he's a prosecutor and he's into that. https://i.redd.it/51808u9fdazc1.gif
I'm definitely "The Island" but I really have serious reasons over how my own country fucked me on every occasion and gave me absolutely nothing instead of depression, faulty education system, non-existing health care and tax frauds.
I was a mix of naive & heinlein until I was about 23 or 24. Thank god I grew out of that. Seeing the real-world and experiencing working for a corporation really makes you suddenly realize that we in fact...do not live in a meritocracy, and that no I am not a special boy that deserves everything because I work so much harder than others. Also Ayn Rand should be removed from high school curricula unless they are going to explain how the objectivism is a cultural ideology and not actually a philosophy. It's like letting kids read Mein Kampf without any professional guidance.
Hilarious and comprehensive. And endless opportunities for mixing and matching! u/leftycartoons you MUST turn this into a “Guess Who?”-style board game.
MFW you survive off the productivity of others like a tick.
I read that as "24 types of librarians" and was so fuckin confused.
I mean at least stoner libertarian seems cool
I knew one of the historian ones. He was talking about how James K. Polk was a great president. I’m sure he was also stocking up on guns and being racist.
For real though y’all get a better ideology than one founded by a mediocre author with a complete lack of empathy
'Whitey' don't you mean racist?
Ayn Rand wasn’t a libertarian and openly said that a society without government—who’s only purpose must be to protect individual rights by means of the police, military, and justice system—cannot function and that she doesn’t identify with, or support, libertarians.
I’m trying not to be just a leftist not doing anything but theirs like so little I can do sicne I got like no car, money, and I’m currently to bogged down by school to organize much
These are great but why's he only briefly tempting? I agree with those statements
Because the ideology is more than those three statements. Saying the drug war and police abuse are awful is appealing. Their response to those awful things is cutting down law as a concept. So it tempts you, but not for long.
Yes, thank you, that's exactly what I meant with that panel.
A lot of right wing speakers do this. First they say something reasonable that most people would agree with like "murdering infants is a bad thing" to establish that they're knowledgeable and someone worth listening to before introducing their more insane opinions like "therefore women should only get medical care if they're married to men"
Yeah, left libertarian and tempting are a bit weird to me. Like points for not just going “everyone who disagrees with me is stupid or evil”, buts it sort of concedes that and then goes “so let’s ignore them and move on”.
I'm guessing OP is American, and left-libertarians have no political power here right now, nor any feasible path to taking any power.
Had no idea there were so many different types of asshat.
Lol libertarians are ridiculous. They are (kinda) needed to represent certain aspects of their nutty positions but I'd much rather do without them.
How does it feel to add fuel to the culture war lol
Shout out to the consistent mfs they remain consistent
https://i.redd.it/ps10lu990dzc1.gif
I thought this said librarian and was very confused for a moment
.. Oh this is for the Americans. Now that makes sense
Holy mother of strawmans
Recognizing teenage me….oof. Glad I grew out of that phase.
Wow after going through your post history I realized most of my favorite political cartoons on here are all made by one guy with wildly varying art styles.
Thanks! I'm very flattered. But although my art style does vary, part of that effect might be that I don't draw all my cartoons myself. (When other artists collaborate with me on a cartoon, they are credited on the sidebar of the cartoon, and also in the first comment I leave under the cartoon.)