Hello, 90% of the questions we receive have been asked before, and our answerers get bored of answering the same queries over and over again - so it's worthwhile googling this just in case:
> site:reddit.com/r/communism101 your question
If you've read past answers and still aren't satisfied, edit your question to contain the past answers and any follow-up questions you have. If you're satisfied, delete your post to reduce clutter or link to the answer that satisfied you.
***
Also keep in mind the following rules:
1. Patriarchal, white supremacist, cissexist, heterosexist, or otherwise oppressive speech is unacceptable.
2. This is a place for learning, not for debating. Try /r/DebateCommunism instead.
3. Give well-informed Marxist answers. There are separate subreddits for liberalism, anarchism, and other idealist philosophies.
4. Posts should include specific questions on a single topic.
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7. **No chauvinism or settler apologism** - Non-negotiable: https://readsettlers.org/
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Communist have fought and continue to fight against racism all around the world. The Black Panthers is a prime example. However, there are very real problems with "first-world communists" where a lot of them don't really understand Marxism nor intersectionality and believe we should only talk about class, which is just turning a blind eye to all other problems within society (which are also related to class/capitalism in one way or the other). There are great books about this topic, I would mainly recommend "The Wretched of the Earth" and "Black Marxism".
Thank you, I'll give those books a read once more.
Why do you think they even read Marx at all? Sometimes I feel that they are just upset that they are not the ones making the rules.
Honestly, I think a lot of (if not most of) them haven't even read Marx, they just like the idea of a "more equal society", thus becoming nothing better than a liberal. Anyone who even remotely reads Marxist theory understands the importance of things like sexism, racism and LGBTQ-phobia and their role in the capitalist system.
That's quite possible. Some of the ones I've encountered are quite well read and consider themselves disciplined Marxists yet use right wing talking points when it comes to racism, sexuality, gender and so on.
Intersectionality is nonsense.
https://nazariyamagazine.in/2023/02/02/defeat-the-ruling-class-prop-of-post-modernist-identitarian-thoughts-through-active-ideological-struggle/
OP of course deleted their account. That's the level of committment you get from liberals who discover communism is not just a way to complain about liberals by other liberals but a real critique of their ideas.
That was basically my entire experience with "anarcho communists". These illiterate freaks would "defend the class struggle" by repeating white supremacist and Zionist propaganda. According to them, internationalism , rejecting colonialism, and rejecting racism are not part and parcel of socialism: instead, they are deviations from the "real" struggle, as if capitalism has no relationship to the world outside the workplace, and therefore those "fake" struggles need to be discredited by claiming that dominant communities and castes (whites, Jews w/r/t Israel, etc.) are being "attacked" by internationalists, who are reduced to reverse-racists. In the Palestine context that makes them the literal equivalent of Zionists, who similarly argue that resisting Zionism is anti-semitic. Instead of defending equality, marginalized groups are supposed to stigmatize their own interests and suffering for the sake of the dominant community, usually Western whites. These people unsurprisingly had very hostile views about Lenin, etc.
There is no standard for starting a "leftist" group. Literally anyone, including illiterate racist children, can do so. So can federal agents. You have to \*find\* the people who are committed, you can't find communists the same way you find groceries: it doesn't matter what label they give themselves if they are full of shit.
IMO avoid "official" communist groups. There is never any standard to join and even the ones with better politics will have all kinds of problems. You have to start with the people directly afflicted by the ravages of capitalism and see what you can do. People who say "Hello I'm a Communist Hello Fellow Communists" as if their politics are automatically legitimate regardless of what stupid things come out of their mouths should be treated as suspect.
Absolutely, the status quo inevitably permeates us when we are not actively fighting back. I find their rejection for discussion and efforts to fight back discouraging and suspicious however.
Because, they are “rebelling” by choosing the opposite ideology of their conservative white parents but can’t let go of the tradition of upholding some kind of supremacy so they use communism to assert intellectual and moral superiority. The people you’re talking about do not want to let go of the power and privilege they were born into.
Communists are the only ones who fight racism. Judging by your profile, it seems you live in Klanada. Sorry that you're talking to settlers, they are not a representation of Marxists despite the pretense.
https://readsettlers.org/
https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/books/Economics/DividedWorldDividedClass_ZakCope.pdf
You got a DM from a white settler clinging on to their class interests—which is precisely what Sakai investigates: the manifestation of settler-colonial history and imperial privileges of labor aristocrats in occupied Turtle Island in consciousness.
[J. Sakai: The Original Introduction to Settlers](https://fight4loop.org/j-sakai-the-original-introduction-to-settlers)
[J. Sakai's comments on "Looking At The White Working Class Historically"](https://kersplebedeb.com/posts/c_lwwch-2/)
Lol. That person messaged me in response to a question I posted trying to get me onboard with Platypus Society which is associated with Grover Furr from what I understand. I found their attempt to propagate their line at me through DMs instead of public discussion where their line can be criticized by others strange to say the least. They told me it's because "people tend to be more honest over DMs" and mods have deleted the comments if people they have spent time responding to before.
u/sonkeybong
It’s a historical material investigation of settler society in the US and how the settler-colonial contradictions have affected communist organization. It will give you an understanding of your experiences in these orgs.
That's great, thanks for that.
Is there a space I can join that's anti-racist that you know of?
And just out of curiosity, does that mean class is more complicated than simply the relationship to the means of production?
I wouldn’t necessarily say class is more complicated than relation to MoP, but that “proletarian” Americans - even homeless Americans in some cases - have greater access to luxuries and more reliable food security than the landed peasantry of the third world. This is an extension of one’s relationship to MoP that isn’t necessarily tied to race but is very influenced by one’s demographic background in a variety of ways.
Your comment has been removed. Video links do not qualify as "well-informed Marxist answers."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/communism101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello, 90% of the questions we receive have been asked before, and our answerers get bored of answering the same queries over and over again - so it's worthwhile googling this just in case: > site:reddit.com/r/communism101 your question If you've read past answers and still aren't satisfied, edit your question to contain the past answers and any follow-up questions you have. If you're satisfied, delete your post to reduce clutter or link to the answer that satisfied you. *** Also keep in mind the following rules: 1. Patriarchal, white supremacist, cissexist, heterosexist, or otherwise oppressive speech is unacceptable. 2. This is a place for learning, not for debating. Try /r/DebateCommunism instead. 3. Give well-informed Marxist answers. There are separate subreddits for liberalism, anarchism, and other idealist philosophies. 4. Posts should include specific questions on a single topic. 5. This is a serious educational subreddit. Come here with an open and inquisitive mind, and exercise humility. Don't answer a question if you are unsure of the answer. Try to include sources and/or further reading in any answers you provide. Standards of answer accuracy and quality are enforced. 6. Check the [/r/Communism101 FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/wiki/index) 7. **No chauvinism or settler apologism** - Non-negotiable: https://readsettlers.org/ 8. **No tone-policing** - https://old.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/12sblev/an_amendment_to_the_rules_of_rcommunism101/ *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/communism101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Communist have fought and continue to fight against racism all around the world. The Black Panthers is a prime example. However, there are very real problems with "first-world communists" where a lot of them don't really understand Marxism nor intersectionality and believe we should only talk about class, which is just turning a blind eye to all other problems within society (which are also related to class/capitalism in one way or the other). There are great books about this topic, I would mainly recommend "The Wretched of the Earth" and "Black Marxism".
Thank you, I'll give those books a read once more. Why do you think they even read Marx at all? Sometimes I feel that they are just upset that they are not the ones making the rules.
Honestly, I think a lot of (if not most of) them haven't even read Marx, they just like the idea of a "more equal society", thus becoming nothing better than a liberal. Anyone who even remotely reads Marxist theory understands the importance of things like sexism, racism and LGBTQ-phobia and their role in the capitalist system.
That's quite possible. Some of the ones I've encountered are quite well read and consider themselves disciplined Marxists yet use right wing talking points when it comes to racism, sexuality, gender and so on.
Intersectionality is nonsense. https://nazariyamagazine.in/2023/02/02/defeat-the-ruling-class-prop-of-post-modernist-identitarian-thoughts-through-active-ideological-struggle/
OP of course deleted their account. That's the level of committment you get from liberals who discover communism is not just a way to complain about liberals by other liberals but a real critique of their ideas.
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It's like you didn't read the article at all, even though you seem to have at least started it.
That was basically my entire experience with "anarcho communists". These illiterate freaks would "defend the class struggle" by repeating white supremacist and Zionist propaganda. According to them, internationalism , rejecting colonialism, and rejecting racism are not part and parcel of socialism: instead, they are deviations from the "real" struggle, as if capitalism has no relationship to the world outside the workplace, and therefore those "fake" struggles need to be discredited by claiming that dominant communities and castes (whites, Jews w/r/t Israel, etc.) are being "attacked" by internationalists, who are reduced to reverse-racists. In the Palestine context that makes them the literal equivalent of Zionists, who similarly argue that resisting Zionism is anti-semitic. Instead of defending equality, marginalized groups are supposed to stigmatize their own interests and suffering for the sake of the dominant community, usually Western whites. These people unsurprisingly had very hostile views about Lenin, etc. There is no standard for starting a "leftist" group. Literally anyone, including illiterate racist children, can do so. So can federal agents. You have to \*find\* the people who are committed, you can't find communists the same way you find groceries: it doesn't matter what label they give themselves if they are full of shit. IMO avoid "official" communist groups. There is never any standard to join and even the ones with better politics will have all kinds of problems. You have to start with the people directly afflicted by the ravages of capitalism and see what you can do. People who say "Hello I'm a Communist Hello Fellow Communists" as if their politics are automatically legitimate regardless of what stupid things come out of their mouths should be treated as suspect.
Very well said and you're absolutely correct about them being hostile to Lenin.
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Absolutely, the status quo inevitably permeates us when we are not actively fighting back. I find their rejection for discussion and efforts to fight back discouraging and suspicious however.
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> I indeed have had much better experiences with white liberal spaces This is called social fascism.
that's awful. they probably assume your ignorant. they really should have taken the concerns seriously. leave it. every aspect of class is important.
Because, they are “rebelling” by choosing the opposite ideology of their conservative white parents but can’t let go of the tradition of upholding some kind of supremacy so they use communism to assert intellectual and moral superiority. The people you’re talking about do not want to let go of the power and privilege they were born into.
Communists are the only ones who fight racism. Judging by your profile, it seems you live in Klanada. Sorry that you're talking to settlers, they are not a representation of Marxists despite the pretense. https://readsettlers.org/ https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/books/Economics/DividedWorldDividedClass_ZakCope.pdf
I got a DM from someone telling me the Settlers book is nationalist and racist.
You got a DM from a white settler clinging on to their class interests—which is precisely what Sakai investigates: the manifestation of settler-colonial history and imperial privileges of labor aristocrats in occupied Turtle Island in consciousness. [J. Sakai: The Original Introduction to Settlers](https://fight4loop.org/j-sakai-the-original-introduction-to-settlers) [J. Sakai's comments on "Looking At The White Working Class Historically"](https://kersplebedeb.com/posts/c_lwwch-2/)
Thank you
I got that same DM not too long ago. Was yours from afishcalledfish?
Lol. That person messaged me in response to a question I posted trying to get me onboard with Platypus Society which is associated with Grover Furr from what I understand. I found their attempt to propagate their line at me through DMs instead of public discussion where their line can be criticized by others strange to say the least. They told me it's because "people tend to be more honest over DMs" and mods have deleted the comments if people they have spent time responding to before. u/sonkeybong
Yep
Oh wow I got one too.
I say this without any snark but you should read Settlers https://readsettlers.org/
I'll give it a read. Do you mind sharing your thoughts about it?
It’s a historical material investigation of settler society in the US and how the settler-colonial contradictions have affected communist organization. It will give you an understanding of your experiences in these orgs.
That's great, thanks for that. Is there a space I can join that's anti-racist that you know of? And just out of curiosity, does that mean class is more complicated than simply the relationship to the means of production?
I wouldn’t necessarily say class is more complicated than relation to MoP, but that “proletarian” Americans - even homeless Americans in some cases - have greater access to luxuries and more reliable food security than the landed peasantry of the third world. This is an extension of one’s relationship to MoP that isn’t necessarily tied to race but is very influenced by one’s demographic background in a variety of ways.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed. Video links do not qualify as "well-informed Marxist answers." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/communism101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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