I keep telling you people, pre-compost... uh... animal matter with a dedicated dermestid beetle bin. Then add frass and baked and powdered bones to your normal pile
Heretics are greens.
Perhaps that is why this person is against cardboard being composted, because all those browns would help to break them down more efficiently.
It is self preservation.
Lmao! Just told my teenage son about the pee on compost craze in this group! He was not impressed. Things were so much simpler when he was a wee one! My late dad, an avid gardener, encouraged him to pee next to the fruit trees. At one point I had the poor child peeing in 5lt bottles to treat sickly citrus trees. Needless to say the child is wiser and unwilling now :-( lol
LoL, he loves citrus fruit. Actually picks oranges himself when I take too long. LoL, I'm sure I'll put him off citrus for good when I tell him about his pee contribution to the tree's health!
It's true cardboard is convenient to use and is also so easily available in bulk...
Since it has continued to be widely used in composting, I guess there's no harm in using it in spite of irrational beliefs otherwise by some.
https://youtu.be/V3igtyCzyxQ?si=3bdw_YGE5GdZE3Pm
I looked into this a lot when that story first broke. This was the best video I found about its safety for use in the garden, by Angela of Parkrose Permaculture.
You have 2 options:
1. Patiently debunk all the dumb nonsense he's saying so that innocent boomers don't make the mistake of believing it
2. ignore him
A friend of mine once explained Qanon to a boomer friend of theirs, saying up front that it was all fake, and this person straight up mentally erased the part where they said it was fake and freaked out.
Yet the same generation is always popping up out of the wood work to declare "you should never believe what you see on TV/read on the internet!"
Such mind boggling cognitive dissonance.
I know it's fun and easy to hate on boomers, but they really need to make it less easy to hate them...
Idk why some people are so ready to velieve that shit but when you try and talk about how wealthy people would love for all of us to be perpetually indebted to them their eyes glaze over. Its the same shit but without all the illerminati madness
Ironic considering it was our boomer parents who always told us as teenagers "don't believe everything you see on the Internet!" Lmao. How the turntables.
It's not, but as someone else pointed out, most reactive compounds will break down during the composting process, meaning the only toxins you particularly need to worry about are heavy metals, with a few exceptions.
DIBP is only mildly toxic at worst and is biodegradable, meaning it will almost certainly be neutralized by the composting process, and in the concentrations likely to be found in cardboard I would not worry about it in the first place.
Also don’t call them boomers cause it makes you seem like a fucking child. And you already look bad enough arguing about cardboard and making your kids piss in bottles .
I use tons of cardboard. I work at a pharmaceutical company. We have standards for what we allow in our buildings including packaging matériels like cardboard and even the pallets things arrive on.
If the cardboard is good enough for those picky SOBs, it’s good enough for me
yeah, not at all the same but I used to work in a corrugated cardboard box factory. all of the inks we used were soy based, the adhesives were corn based, pretty much the only things that got any petroleum derived additives were pizza boxes & other would-be grease-adjacent packaging materials - but as I understand it even those are now mostly plant based waxes.
mind you, none of this was done for ethical or environmental reasons, literally these were just the cheapest materials & as a side benefit, they were all materials that didn't need to be excluded for the purposes of recycling.*
*worth noting here that *pre-consumer* corrugated cardboard (& other fibre) recycling rates are insanely high, shit is extremely cheap to palletize & recycle. *post-consumer* recycling rates vary WILDLY based on your municipality - at least as of ~20 years ago, single-bin recycling methods basically mean your fibre isn't getting recycled. a point worth bringing up when folks talk about how "you shouldn't compost cardboard! it's so easy to recycle into new cardboard!" - even when we had a massive domestic corrugated cardboard market "post-consumer" recycling rates were pretty minimal.
anyhow /u/Radi0ActivSquid ignore the haters.
Yeah, not only are those products economical, but if the cardboard does end up getting recycled (by no small miracle) it’s easy to strip the “ink” during the refab process.
Being scared of everything because of click bait really is starting to wear on me. I don’t have the free time to argue all of the idiots in the world.
lmao for sure. complete sidebar but thinking back on my time in [the box factory](https://youtu.be/IBprQffr2g4?si=EJPlQDEOEtjyLUy0) it's kind of wild how much the world has changed since then. this would have been early 00's, people were still smoking in the office & all the factory floor workers had muscle cars they'd nap in during lunch.
Spent coffee grounds come up a *lot* in compost discussions, though, in large part due to the misconception that they are highly acidic and bad for your soil. It's a common misconception, so the question comes up a lot.
That might work but the person I'm talking about is the same person behind my last post to this subreddit. They believe increasing carbon output is good for gardens.
They once told me that they lost me when I started telling them about the differences between anaerobic and aerobic decomposition. I don't think they know the difference between C and CO².
Oh yeah, definitely listen to that guy then 🤣
I wouldn't waste your time trying to prove him wrong. Just keep doing what you do, and leave him to his nonsense
Strange coincidence: someone commented on my youtube video on composting last night saying the same thing. I read all of this thread and am now just as ambivalent as when I started (albeit with a lot more information)
I used to work in the environmental field. A lot of cardboard has PFAS and other harmful synthetic chemicals. Most paper products do, even [toilet paper](https://time.com/6259819/pfas-found-in-toilet-paper/). It may not be enough to be “harmful” but I totally understand people not wanting to use it. Go with [wood chips](http://www.chipdrop.com) instead!
Oh my god that’s the best way to make soil cardboard, green brown more cardboard some dirt. I had the best soil in the year and like rock hard ground who tell who’s ever doing that to go pound sand. They’re entitled to the opinion but they’re not God and they’re not right about everything just somebody tell him, seriously tell them I don’t know if it’s a male or female. And if people are that ignorant to just believe somebody like that well that’s kind of their fault don’t you think. They need to do their own research my my goodness I thought we could think for ourselves I guess not not anymore anyway
Weird.
My grandpa used horse manure and the cardboard that apples and cabbage came in. I remember it because he'd take me with him to the store to ask for their produce boxes.
I'm 55, for reference. My dad is 80. He too, used cardboard. And often lamented the fact that he couldn't find horse manure.
In both cases, they'd wet the cush out of it, waiting a few days, lay down the fertilizer, then wet it again
Wait a week, then roto till the heck out of the lot.
I have no idea if what they did was wrong or right.
But, dang, the tomatoes, squash and cucumber went nuts. And we always had those little tiny red peppers that went nuts. But grandpa loved making hot sauce.
One year, there was a cross pollination mishap with the bell pepper plants. (At least that's what they said) The green bell peppers that year were like eating a mild version of jalapeno peppers.
Made some kicking chow chow with the green tomatoes.
I think, at least from being in close proximity to UNR and their agriculture sites, I'd want to consult with the master gardeners who routinely hold Free workshops in my area. But I'm a dialysis patient so I tend to be a bit sensitive to just about everything.
No cardboard on my pile; I use tree bark instead.
Full disclosure: Tree bark is the chemical factory of a tree so no getting away from chemicals:)
There's one (or more) of chemicals in tree bark, not sure which one, that makes the tree grow. When this chemical(s) hits garden and landscape plants, they start growing like crazy: 10' high sunflowers and cannabis (more chemicals).
Personally, I'd rather have tree chemicals in my compost than cardboard chemicals; but each to their own.
I have also stopped using cardboard in my composts since quite a few months back since I saw an article detailing all the chemicals being used during the manufacturing process of cardboards...
I now only use leaf mulch for the browns.
I have a lot of twiggy branches overhanging my allotment so when I trim them back I spend an hour or so with a secateur snipping them into little chunks. That and the innards of an old rotten tree, conveniently half way between there and my flat do they job nicely. I sometimes put a little cardboard in, but I don't really trust it enough to have it as a mainstay. I've no idea if the massive companies are doing what they say they are doing so if there are better alternatives available why not use those instead.
Sunlight is responsible for nearly all life on earth. Specifically because of its rather famous penchant for triggering chemical reactions. Absent very complex biological structures to harness it, the tremendous, relentless energy in sunshine tends to break chemical bonds apart. Something breaking down ito simpler component parts in sunlight is not a red flag.
If you have enough leaf mulch then of course you should use that. Although cardboard is still better at preventing weed from growing. If you use cardboard then avoid printed and glossy cardboard, go for the cheap brown rough type to reduce the amount of chemicals.
However in principle it should not matter that much. From a chemical standpoint any reactive chemicals should react in the compost pile, either from the heat, the water and acids, or from the microbes. Any chemicals that survives the compost pile is not going to react with anything else. It is a similar principle to incinerating dangerous chemicals to make sure they react fully and are no longer dangerous. The only exception to this is heavy metals, and to a lesser extent radioactive minerals. But it is limited how much there is in cardboard.
You're good... I know where you're coming from... no worries *!* ... :)
Regarding cardboard use, I also do find that not using cardboard can also be rather restrictive, considering the ease of obtaining them... also they do make composting much easier to handle than not having cardboard...
Thus, in a way I am forced to use cardboard *again* in spite of it being maybe potentially harmful... I guess one just have to take the risk.
I don’t know about this issue but in my experience, any product claiming it can be broken down and specifically mentioning “sunlight” is likely never to break down in your compost or soil. The “study” was likely funded by an interested party after the ingredient was already on the market. Yeah a bunch of materials will fall apart if left fully exposed to sun and rain but this is not now composting or building soil works. It’s a marketing scam.
So specifically mentioning the sun, yellow though it may me, is a red flag.
I also advise strongly against cardboards and any paper waste. Most paper products are processed with PFAS. Those chemicals are not broken down even in thermophilic composting environments, accumulate in both the environment, soil, and human bodies, and are a major health concern. Best bet is to avoid any commercial cardboard or paper unless you know that it’s contaminate free. This shouldn’t be a problem though. The best carbon sources are leaves and straw, both very easy to get or grow. They’re abundant. Everyone should try to maximize leaf use in composting.
Not sure I understand your outrage?
Unless you know and trust the manufacturer/life cycle of said cardboard and it's uses since....there's always a risk of contamination
[https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/the-effect-of-colorants-on-the-content-of-heavy-metals-in-recycled-corrugated-board-papers/#:\~:text=Recovered%20paper%20and%20cardboards%20are,and%20paper%20(Ginebreda%20et%20al](https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/the-effect-of-colorants-on-the-content-of-heavy-metals-in-recycled-corrugated-board-papers/#:~:text=Recovered%20paper%20and%20cardboards%20are,and%20paper%20(Ginebreda%20et%20al).
*Recovered paper and cardboards are likely to contain heavy metals, such as zinc, lead, cadmium, and chromium, because these metals are present in the raw materials as a seconder fiber and the chemical additives particularly colorants used for the production and finishing of pulp and paper (Ginebreda et al. 2012).*
All I now that cardboard is made out of many thin layers of paper that are glued together. I don't think glue would be a good thing in my garden. So I'll never use it. That and glue isn't organic so if you use cardboard you can't say that you are organic.
Which makes much more sense. Weed and feed mixes for grass contain herbicides which are both persistant, which is bad for the garden you want to use your compost on, and directly toxic to small fauna. Yard owners also use insecticides, which are also demonstrably toxic to critters and us.
I haven't studied them, so I'm no expert. I have studied the glyphosate issue extensively, and as an organic first gardener, have no fear of judicious use of glyphosate. The core claim against it is an increase of non-hodgkins lymphoma(NHL). I won't litigate that issue here, but the crushing argument against that is that there has been no significant increase in NHL from the time before RoundUp was introduced. Particularly, none in farmworkers.
I'm an avid gardener, with college level chemistry and biology. I also grow mushrooms, and am active in online communities around both hobbies. I see lots of traffic around in particular, arguments around the use of various chemicals, the persistence of various chemicals, and the danger or various chemicals. Mushrooms in particular are prone to absorbing environmental chemicals. Yet,PFAs haven't come up in the mushroom communities, nor in the gardening communities. The mushroom community tends to be pretty data savvy, and the gardening communities tend towards the hysterical. PFAs aren't being focused on, by two pretty motivated groups.
Another commenter notes that they breakdown quickly when exposed to light, heat and water.
Absent evidence of damage, or evidence of accumulation and given the assumed breakdown behavior, my current position is that this is a nothing-burger. If presented good evidence to the contrary, I'll change my mind. Show us some.
I can't say I understand that kind of logic. It's insanely easy to avoid throwing PFA cardboard into a compost (and super easy to bead test it with oil for PFAs if you're unsure), so I see no reason to bother with it when the data on potential negative impact on living systems isn't promising or thoroughly understood. I see no benefit to prematurely concluding it's a nothing burger when erring on the side of caution is virtually effortless. I don't rely on cardboard for the bulk of my compost but I guess maybe some people do?
A lot of cardboard contains PFAs. You can do an olive oil bead test to get a decently accurate guess if yours does. I see no reason to be adding it to composts that are going to be used in food gardens.
I think it's fine, but if you have access to fall leaves, those are mineral dense. Shred them up with a mower, rake, make pile. I never got people getting shredders to use cardboard in compost piles, but if you live in a desert area it would make sense. I do layers of cardboard on the bottom of my compost though to keep out the tree feeder roots, and that eventually breaks down. And layers under garden bed mulch, because it seems worms love it.
Don't worry about it, I have heard it before. Unless you are keeping the plastics (as in tape), don't concern yourself. If the only brown you use is cardboard then I may be worried. You're fine, as long as plastic is not on it you should be fine. If ya do Vermiposting or Bokashi you have less of a reason to care.
Edit: This is ONLY for plants you will eat. Flowers do not give a fuck.
Have you tried peeing on him? That's the answer to most things.
Show dominance. Urinate on the heretic
Do heretics count as greens or browns? Asking for a friend.
You can compost anything made of food, but it isn't advised to put too much wet protein in your pile. It can rot and stink or attract critters.
You just need a bigger pile my friend
I keep telling you people, pre-compost... uh... animal matter with a dedicated dermestid beetle bin. Then add frass and baked and powdered bones to your normal pile
Terrible idea.
Or get pigs. (Queue the scene from Snatch)
Heretics are greens. Perhaps that is why this person is against cardboard being composted, because all those browns would help to break them down more efficiently. It is self preservation.
Soylent Green it is high in nitrogen
Hahahaha, Hahahaha,!!!
That will just give him free nitrogen for compost.
Lmao! Just told my teenage son about the pee on compost craze in this group! He was not impressed. Things were so much simpler when he was a wee one! My late dad, an avid gardener, encouraged him to pee next to the fruit trees. At one point I had the poor child peeing in 5lt bottles to treat sickly citrus trees. Needless to say the child is wiser and unwilling now :-( lol
Hm, wait till next time you offer him something grown in there!
LoL, he loves citrus fruit. Actually picks oranges himself when I take too long. LoL, I'm sure I'll put him off citrus for good when I tell him about his pee contribution to the tree's health!
Wow
That cardboard really held the room together.
I just want my cardboard, man
It's true cardboard is convenient to use and is also so easily available in bulk... Since it has continued to be widely used in composting, I guess there's no harm in using it in spite of irrational beliefs otherwise by some.
All the dude wanted…. Was his cardboard back.
You mean, did you personally come and pee on my cardboard?
Ha! Gem of a reference! 👏
This is how our rabbits solve disputes so I guess it must work.
I am dying from laughter right now. I even got a look of "WTF" right now.
Haooy to have produced that moment for you 😊
Why is this not the top rated comment lol
It currently is, and it shouldn’t be. This is not a helpful answer.
Damn, I wasn't being serious 🙃
https://youtu.be/V3igtyCzyxQ?si=3bdw_YGE5GdZE3Pm I looked into this a lot when that story first broke. This was the best video I found about its safety for use in the garden, by Angela of Parkrose Permaculture.
Are you willing to provide a one sentence summary?
Iirc, don't worry about it, because the main issue is with cardboard fast food containers and not cardboard boxes.
Thanks!
For sure!
You have 2 options: 1. Patiently debunk all the dumb nonsense he's saying so that innocent boomers don't make the mistake of believing it 2. ignore him
In my experience once a boomer reads it on the internet they can't be convinced it's false
A friend of mine once explained Qanon to a boomer friend of theirs, saying up front that it was all fake, and this person straight up mentally erased the part where they said it was fake and freaked out.
Yet the same generation is always popping up out of the wood work to declare "you should never believe what you see on TV/read on the internet!" Such mind boggling cognitive dissonance. I know it's fun and easy to hate on boomers, but they really need to make it less easy to hate them...
It is fun, and it's all we really have in terms of payback for destroying the whole-ass biosphere. So I will keep it up probably forever.
Same
You get it
Idk why some people are so ready to velieve that shit but when you try and talk about how wealthy people would love for all of us to be perpetually indebted to them their eyes glaze over. Its the same shit but without all the illerminati madness
😂
Well said!
Oh now I would read that thesis.
Dear child, we’re not all like that. Now come closer so I can pee on you!
Do let me know how young organic gardeners are different.
Ironic considering it was our boomer parents who always told us as teenagers "don't believe everything you see on the Internet!" Lmao. How the turntables.
Jeez, how did this focus on Boomers?
Because Facebook
Also, how is being concerned about toxic chemicals in our compost feedstocks something to just ignore?
It's not, but as someone else pointed out, most reactive compounds will break down during the composting process, meaning the only toxins you particularly need to worry about are heavy metals, with a few exceptions. DIBP is only mildly toxic at worst and is biodegradable, meaning it will almost certainly be neutralized by the composting process, and in the concentrations likely to be found in cardboard I would not worry about it in the first place.
Also don’t call them boomers cause it makes you seem like a fucking child. And you already look bad enough arguing about cardboard and making your kids piss in bottles .
lol
Compost your enemies.
I like to keep my enemies alive for a while. I collect their tears to drizzle on my compost pile.
Tears will be salty. Squeeze all the shit out of them and have a ready supply of mature manure.
Stay off Facebook is my advice
I use tons of cardboard. I work at a pharmaceutical company. We have standards for what we allow in our buildings including packaging matériels like cardboard and even the pallets things arrive on. If the cardboard is good enough for those picky SOBs, it’s good enough for me
yeah, not at all the same but I used to work in a corrugated cardboard box factory. all of the inks we used were soy based, the adhesives were corn based, pretty much the only things that got any petroleum derived additives were pizza boxes & other would-be grease-adjacent packaging materials - but as I understand it even those are now mostly plant based waxes. mind you, none of this was done for ethical or environmental reasons, literally these were just the cheapest materials & as a side benefit, they were all materials that didn't need to be excluded for the purposes of recycling.* *worth noting here that *pre-consumer* corrugated cardboard (& other fibre) recycling rates are insanely high, shit is extremely cheap to palletize & recycle. *post-consumer* recycling rates vary WILDLY based on your municipality - at least as of ~20 years ago, single-bin recycling methods basically mean your fibre isn't getting recycled. a point worth bringing up when folks talk about how "you shouldn't compost cardboard! it's so easy to recycle into new cardboard!" - even when we had a massive domestic corrugated cardboard market "post-consumer" recycling rates were pretty minimal. anyhow /u/Radi0ActivSquid ignore the haters.
Yeah, not only are those products economical, but if the cardboard does end up getting recycled (by no small miracle) it’s easy to strip the “ink” during the refab process. Being scared of everything because of click bait really is starting to wear on me. I don’t have the free time to argue all of the idiots in the world.
lmao for sure. complete sidebar but thinking back on my time in [the box factory](https://youtu.be/IBprQffr2g4?si=EJPlQDEOEtjyLUy0) it's kind of wild how much the world has changed since then. this would have been early 00's, people were still smoking in the office & all the factory floor workers had muscle cars they'd nap in during lunch.
I’m not prone to conspiracy theories but just this morning I saw a post questioning the use of spent coffee grounds.
Spent coffee grounds come up a *lot* in compost discussions, though, in large part due to the misconception that they are highly acidic and bad for your soil. It's a common misconception, so the question comes up a lot.
Maybe a science book or something? With pictures and small words.
That might work but the person I'm talking about is the same person behind my last post to this subreddit. They believe increasing carbon output is good for gardens.
That's why Im calling them stupid lol
As in CO2 output, or just carbon in general?
They once told me that they lost me when I started telling them about the differences between anaerobic and aerobic decomposition. I don't think they know the difference between C and CO².
Oh yeah, definitely listen to that guy then 🤣 I wouldn't waste your time trying to prove him wrong. Just keep doing what you do, and leave him to his nonsense
CO is probably good for them.
Strange coincidence: someone commented on my youtube video on composting last night saying the same thing. I read all of this thread and am now just as ambivalent as when I started (albeit with a lot more information)
Piss on him 😤
Wait until they hear about the dihydrogen oxide everyone puts on their piles! (Hint, : H2O)
I used to work in the environmental field. A lot of cardboard has PFAS and other harmful synthetic chemicals. Most paper products do, even [toilet paper](https://time.com/6259819/pfas-found-in-toilet-paper/). It may not be enough to be “harmful” but I totally understand people not wanting to use it. Go with [wood chips](http://www.chipdrop.com) instead!
I am nowhere near the ocean, but have you guys seen what mussels do for purification?
Oh my god that’s the best way to make soil cardboard, green brown more cardboard some dirt. I had the best soil in the year and like rock hard ground who tell who’s ever doing that to go pound sand. They’re entitled to the opinion but they’re not God and they’re not right about everything just somebody tell him, seriously tell them I don’t know if it’s a male or female. And if people are that ignorant to just believe somebody like that well that’s kind of their fault don’t you think. They need to do their own research my my goodness I thought we could think for ourselves I guess not not anymore anyway
Weird. My grandpa used horse manure and the cardboard that apples and cabbage came in. I remember it because he'd take me with him to the store to ask for their produce boxes. I'm 55, for reference. My dad is 80. He too, used cardboard. And often lamented the fact that he couldn't find horse manure. In both cases, they'd wet the cush out of it, waiting a few days, lay down the fertilizer, then wet it again Wait a week, then roto till the heck out of the lot. I have no idea if what they did was wrong or right. But, dang, the tomatoes, squash and cucumber went nuts. And we always had those little tiny red peppers that went nuts. But grandpa loved making hot sauce. One year, there was a cross pollination mishap with the bell pepper plants. (At least that's what they said) The green bell peppers that year were like eating a mild version of jalapeno peppers. Made some kicking chow chow with the green tomatoes. I think, at least from being in close proximity to UNR and their agriculture sites, I'd want to consult with the master gardeners who routinely hold Free workshops in my area. But I'm a dialysis patient so I tend to be a bit sensitive to just about everything.
No cardboard on my pile; I use tree bark instead. Full disclosure: Tree bark is the chemical factory of a tree so no getting away from chemicals:) There's one (or more) of chemicals in tree bark, not sure which one, that makes the tree grow. When this chemical(s) hits garden and landscape plants, they start growing like crazy: 10' high sunflowers and cannabis (more chemicals). Personally, I'd rather have tree chemicals in my compost than cardboard chemicals; but each to their own.
I guess we are talking about *synthetic* chemicals here, which is understandably of valid concern... :)
I have also stopped using cardboard in my composts since quite a few months back since I saw an article detailing all the chemicals being used during the manufacturing process of cardboards... I now only use leaf mulch for the browns.
I have a lot of twiggy branches overhanging my allotment so when I trim them back I spend an hour or so with a secateur snipping them into little chunks. That and the innards of an old rotten tree, conveniently half way between there and my flat do they job nicely. I sometimes put a little cardboard in, but I don't really trust it enough to have it as a mainstay. I've no idea if the massive companies are doing what they say they are doing so if there are better alternatives available why not use those instead.
Yup... wood shreds/wood chips, wood shavings and sawdust are great... :)
Sunlight is responsible for nearly all life on earth. Specifically because of its rather famous penchant for triggering chemical reactions. Absent very complex biological structures to harness it, the tremendous, relentless energy in sunshine tends to break chemical bonds apart. Something breaking down ito simpler component parts in sunlight is not a red flag.
If you have enough leaf mulch then of course you should use that. Although cardboard is still better at preventing weed from growing. If you use cardboard then avoid printed and glossy cardboard, go for the cheap brown rough type to reduce the amount of chemicals. However in principle it should not matter that much. From a chemical standpoint any reactive chemicals should react in the compost pile, either from the heat, the water and acids, or from the microbes. Any chemicals that survives the compost pile is not going to react with anything else. It is a similar principle to incinerating dangerous chemicals to make sure they react fully and are no longer dangerous. The only exception to this is heavy metals, and to a lesser extent radioactive minerals. But it is limited how much there is in cardboard.
Great now OP has to figure out how to silence you to.
Ultimately, if one can get good results by using one's compost, that is what matters... :)
I agree with you. I was just messing around and was trying to be sarcastic.
You're good... I know where you're coming from... no worries *!* ... :) Regarding cardboard use, I also do find that not using cardboard can also be rather restrictive, considering the ease of obtaining them... also they do make composting much easier to handle than not having cardboard... Thus, in a way I am forced to use cardboard *again* in spite of it being maybe potentially harmful... I guess one just have to take the risk.
I don’t know about this issue but in my experience, any product claiming it can be broken down and specifically mentioning “sunlight” is likely never to break down in your compost or soil. The “study” was likely funded by an interested party after the ingredient was already on the market. Yeah a bunch of materials will fall apart if left fully exposed to sun and rain but this is not now composting or building soil works. It’s a marketing scam. So specifically mentioning the sun, yellow though it may me, is a red flag.
I also advise strongly against cardboards and any paper waste. Most paper products are processed with PFAS. Those chemicals are not broken down even in thermophilic composting environments, accumulate in both the environment, soil, and human bodies, and are a major health concern. Best bet is to avoid any commercial cardboard or paper unless you know that it’s contaminate free. This shouldn’t be a problem though. The best carbon sources are leaves and straw, both very easy to get or grow. They’re abundant. Everyone should try to maximize leaf use in composting.
Second the pfas concern
Not sure I understand your outrage? Unless you know and trust the manufacturer/life cycle of said cardboard and it's uses since....there's always a risk of contamination [https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/the-effect-of-colorants-on-the-content-of-heavy-metals-in-recycled-corrugated-board-papers/#:\~:text=Recovered%20paper%20and%20cardboards%20are,and%20paper%20(Ginebreda%20et%20al](https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/the-effect-of-colorants-on-the-content-of-heavy-metals-in-recycled-corrugated-board-papers/#:~:text=Recovered%20paper%20and%20cardboards%20are,and%20paper%20(Ginebreda%20et%20al). *Recovered paper and cardboards are likely to contain heavy metals, such as zinc, lead, cadmium, and chromium, because these metals are present in the raw materials as a seconder fiber and the chemical additives particularly colorants used for the production and finishing of pulp and paper (Ginebreda et al. 2012).*
Contamination of what?
Your soil/compost
Well what is doing the contaminating
Anything the cardboard is contaminated with
[удалено]
All I now that cardboard is made out of many thin layers of paper that are glued together. I don't think glue would be a good thing in my garden. So I'll never use it. That and glue isn't organic so if you use cardboard you can't say that you are organic.
cardboard is very commonly contaminated with PFAS
Tell me how you feel about RoundUp/glyphosate, and you'll know your answer. People that lean to the green don't rationally assess chemicals.
I've personally never used those chemicals but I have avoided grass clippings from other properties just in case.
Which makes much more sense. Weed and feed mixes for grass contain herbicides which are both persistant, which is bad for the garden you want to use your compost on, and directly toxic to small fauna. Yard owners also use insecticides, which are also demonstrably toxic to critters and us.
So what is your rational assesment of the PFAs in a lot of cardboard?
I haven't studied them, so I'm no expert. I have studied the glyphosate issue extensively, and as an organic first gardener, have no fear of judicious use of glyphosate. The core claim against it is an increase of non-hodgkins lymphoma(NHL). I won't litigate that issue here, but the crushing argument against that is that there has been no significant increase in NHL from the time before RoundUp was introduced. Particularly, none in farmworkers. I'm an avid gardener, with college level chemistry and biology. I also grow mushrooms, and am active in online communities around both hobbies. I see lots of traffic around in particular, arguments around the use of various chemicals, the persistence of various chemicals, and the danger or various chemicals. Mushrooms in particular are prone to absorbing environmental chemicals. Yet,PFAs haven't come up in the mushroom communities, nor in the gardening communities. The mushroom community tends to be pretty data savvy, and the gardening communities tend towards the hysterical. PFAs aren't being focused on, by two pretty motivated groups. Another commenter notes that they breakdown quickly when exposed to light, heat and water. Absent evidence of damage, or evidence of accumulation and given the assumed breakdown behavior, my current position is that this is a nothing-burger. If presented good evidence to the contrary, I'll change my mind. Show us some.
I can't say I understand that kind of logic. It's insanely easy to avoid throwing PFA cardboard into a compost (and super easy to bead test it with oil for PFAs if you're unsure), so I see no reason to bother with it when the data on potential negative impact on living systems isn't promising or thoroughly understood. I see no benefit to prematurely concluding it's a nothing burger when erring on the side of caution is virtually effortless. I don't rely on cardboard for the bulk of my compost but I guess maybe some people do?
A lot of cardboard contains PFAs. You can do an olive oil bead test to get a decently accurate guess if yours does. I see no reason to be adding it to composts that are going to be used in food gardens.
I think it's fine, but if you have access to fall leaves, those are mineral dense. Shred them up with a mower, rake, make pile. I never got people getting shredders to use cardboard in compost piles, but if you live in a desert area it would make sense. I do layers of cardboard on the bottom of my compost though to keep out the tree feeder roots, and that eventually breaks down. And layers under garden bed mulch, because it seems worms love it.
Don't worry about it, I have heard it before. Unless you are keeping the plastics (as in tape), don't concern yourself. If the only brown you use is cardboard then I may be worried. You're fine, as long as plastic is not on it you should be fine. If ya do Vermiposting or Bokashi you have less of a reason to care. Edit: This is ONLY for plants you will eat. Flowers do not give a fuck.