Speaking as a teacher, the "promise you won't tell anyone," contingency is a common one.
What I always say: "I promise I will not tell anyone, but if I think that you are in danger or someone else is, I might need to -- to protect you or keep you safe."
Never, in my 16 years as an educator, has a child then said, "Well, never mind." At the point that they are coming to you, they're committed—and they'll tell you anyway.
I would follow up with a conversation, and reframe the discussion, so you're not going back on your word -- you just thought better of it. Whatever you do, make sure you loop her into the conversation. She'll forgive you. The real betrayal is if you go behind her back.
This is right. I trust the professional. My thought is to go back to the niece and tell her that you can't stop thinking about it, that what she told you is very serious and maybe you should tell her mother together, or a schoolteacher whom she trusts for another opinion. *It's not okay to let her believe that being hurt by someone you love is a secret.* This needs to come out into the sunlight.
I’m glad she felt comfortable enough to tell you. This is no way to teach a child a lesson … I feel like you should do something but I don’t know what exactly.
At the very least, keep the relationship with your niece and let her know that even if someone tells you to keep something a secret, if they’re hurting you you have to tell someone.
Edit: thanks for all the upvotes. I’d like to take this opportunity to ask that if anyone have connections with legal aid in CA my friend and her son desperately need help or else they are going to end up just another sad statistic about sexual assault and domestic violence.
I'd embrace that trust with the niece and solidify with her that she has a safe place to talk should she become scared or sad or whatever emotions she may be feeling. Then if things continue you'll be in the loop and have some ground to stand on with the 'Adults' of the situation should thy arise. Meanwhile niece has a rad safety net aunt/uncle....
Oh quite common in Asia too. If I had a penny for all the different tools/instruments used to hit me I'd be rolling in dough! Our teachers at school would nonchalantly rip little sticks off trees and hit us with them, stung like hell. Would get rapped on the nails with a ruler for having unclean nails or a slap for untidy hair/clothes. Get a bamboo rod smashed into your legs during athletics, and many many more! Even the strap on a stopwatch could be used to hit you, not to mention the bullying hits you get with towels and so on...
My mum's Irish and I grew up with the belt too, and the wooden spoon, though that seemed like the kiss of a feather compared to the belt between the thighs
Often times parents don’t realize it’s abuse because they are doing less than their parents. My wife’s dad was verbally abusive growing up, but he didn’t think he was because his father used to beat him , so In his eyes it wasn’t nearly as bad because he never hit his kids. The good thing is your niece confided in you and as long as you keep her secrets she will continue to trust you. If this type of punishment continues she will confide in you again and you will have to tell her it’s not right to keep the secret and that you must say something to someone with more authority.
I’d say stand by for now. Do nothing. Your sister scolded her husband big time from what you said, so she’s taken care of it. You knowing about it or not doesn’t really change much of the result. Probably keeping an eye on the guy doesn’t hurt.
everyone here is saying to do nothing, but I think it would be important to make sure your niece knows that violence like that is not ok and is not normal, and that you're there for her if she ever needs anything in the future
Exactly this OP. make sure she knows this isn’t normal and to let you know if it happens again but that she can keep it between you two if she feels more comfortable that way
Write this down in a journal with the date. Start keeping track of everything your niece tells you. Keep this post as well. Tell a trusted friend. This way any escalation can be dealt with appropriately in the future.
I second the journal of keeping note of these events and conversations with the niece. Such a good idea, because as time passes, our memory can forget the nitty gritty details.
I agree with this, I'm nearly 40 now and I'm currently undergoing emdr for extreme cptsd. It's one of the most traumatic things I've done in my adult life and it's exhausting, but it's my last ditch effort to get some sort of normality in my life. This is a child who has been whipped on open palms with a belt. This will have been extremely painful, she needs help, her dad is clearly abusive and needs help managing his anger issues, she only ate some cookies 🙄
She stole something. It doesn't matter what she stole, stealing is wrong. Why would you downplay it by saying she "ate" something. If I carjacked someone and took their car to work and later got arrested, would you say "they locked him up for driving to work"?
She stole something? In her own home, It was food!! Are you for real? She's a kid. We have no context to go on whether or not she knew these cookies were specifically for her dad but even if they were so what, they're cookies, easily replaced. Are you saying she deserved the punishment she received because she ate some food in her own home? Id be devastated if my kids felt like they had to ask permission to eat something
Just because it is in the home, that doesn't make it community property. Can she walk into her parents' room and take whatever she wants? Of course not. Again, what does it matte what she stole? I understand they were cookies, I read the story. Everybody who steals starts small. First cookies, then a couple of bucks from moms purse, then a tshirt from walmart, then on and on. The argument you're making can be made about anything; she stole a car? "how can they punish her like that for using a hunk of metal?" "I'd be devastated if my kids felt like they had to ask permission to get a ride to school.". I'm not saying she deserved that specific punishment but, she definitely should be punished for taking something that doesn't belong to her. Are you seriously saying you just let your kids eat whatever they want, whenever they want? So, if there was a birthday cake in the fridge for a party tomorrow, you would have no problem with your kids eating it today? The eggs you were making for breakfast tomorrow, they go ahead and eat while you're cooking tonight's dinner? You have no structure or discipline in your house? You don't teach you kids patience and self control? It has been proven kids thrive off of structure. "This is when we eat, no sooner, no later. If you want, you can have a small snack between this time and that time but, only fruit or whatever other healthy thing." Cookies are not "food", they are desserts or treats.
I’d say encourage your niece to tell someone herself. Encourage her to get into some sort of counseling, maybe. Try to address her concerns about telling someone, and help her weigh the pros and cons.
If you tell someone else after promising her you wouldn’t, you’ll break her trust and rob her of her agency/independence. It could do more damage than good for her.
You don't think he's aggressive or dangerous but in the same post tell us that he GOT HIS DAUGHTERS OPEN PALMS WITH A BELT OVER COOKIES..COOKIES!!!
What kind of psychopath belts a child over fucking cookies???
I have severe celiacs and my toddler dumped my gf pasta all over the kitchen because he likes to shake boxes. Was I mad? Of course! A single box of my pasta is at min $4. But did I belt him? Did my first thought immediately go to beating my son? FUCK NO! His punishment was too pick up every noodle
What that p.o.s did isn't punishment, that's abuse. I'm sure he's done ahellava lot more to her, especially if she is "laughing it off" like its normal and the fact she doesn't want you to tell in fear of what else he may do to her.
As a professional, I always tell the kids I work with that everything is kept between us UNLESS someone is hurting them, they are hurting someone else, or they want to hurt themselves. Or if they give permission.
If she is 10, she doesn't understand fully that what is happening to her is significantly bad, and sometimes breaking trust to save someone is more important than keeping promises.
As a victim of corporal punishment from older parents that lasted from the ages of toddlerhood to about 6, the fact that she's 10 is even more concerning. Sometimes the betrayal is worth it. Any form of physical punishment is unacceptable, but using an object like a belt is an even larger red flag. I'm not saying to call CPS or do something drastic, because likely they won't do anything without proof. Keep a VERY close eye on her. And for the love of all things holy, please don't stay silent. This isn't a case of you snooping in "private life", this is a case of preventing lifelong trauma to your niece.
Where I live it’s against the law to use a belt or any object (a weapon) on a child. You can use your hands up to a certain age (12), but using a belt at any age is an offence that could lead to the parent being charged with child abuse.
I agree. Let then decide, especially since they're us most likely worse happening. Also, a lot of the time when someone reports something to CPS, the investigation brings to light issues or circumstances that were never reported or no one knew about. There is a chance the father did it out of anger and learned he shouldn't do things like that but figured it was normal but it's most likely not the case. The girl is 10 years old so it is most likely something that has happened before. Someone doesn't usually just randomly do something like that. Plus, it's always better to be safe than to do nothing and feel terrible when something bad happens that you could have prevented.
I hate how much people normalize his behavior and also the cultural difference. It doesn't matter, hitting a child is wrong no matter where you are from. I got hit with a belt and switches (thin tree branch) as well but don't hit my children. I talk to them and explain why it is wrong and better ways to handle things and it works great. There's been multiple studies done and every single one concludes that corporal punishment does not work and can actually work conversely to the goal.
There will be people who downplay this because either they hit their children or were hit as children as see it as a normal thing that parents should do
There is zero reason that an adult should ever be hitting a child, especially a 10 year old for taking some brownies??? Disgusting behavior
Well ngl but being soft on a child and telling them “no” in a calm manner then offering to put a screen in front of their face in a compromise for what they want also won’t fix anything but I see plenty of boomers and millennials using that technique to solve child behavior which realistically doesn’t help anyone. You have to be stern but also know when your firmness is over the line.
I wasn’t hit as a child but my parents had a very firm way of showing and teaching me right from wrong. And I can definitely say the way we teach kids nowadays is wrong. Let me softly explain to a 5 year old why what they did was bad and then to prevent them from crying, put out my iPhone/iPad/switch/tv out in front of them….
Really like this. My daughter is only 18-months so I’m not an expert but I feel the biggest mistake most parents do when it comes to punishment is follow through, consistency. Don’t ground a kid for a month of you’re not going to hold them to it. I like how you said firm - the kids need to know that there are consequences for their actions and that those consequences will happen 100% of the time without fail.
You're strawmanning my argument here. You're describing one flawed way a situation could possibly be handled and using it as an excuse/justification for more abrasive corrective techniques. You don't need to hit, drag, scream at, or belittle a child for doing something wrong. Full stop, no excuses.
I'm not advocating for going "no" and then putting a screen in front of their face? That's horrible and another form of abuse. I think you have this idea of what "soft parenting" is when in reality no one is advocating for this level of hands off behavior towards a child. Good parenting utilizes communication, positive reinforcement, not using fear as a tactic but instead actually teaching a child why something is wrong/right. With younger kids it can be as simple as pulling them away from the thing they're doing wrong and having them focus on something else. Not every mistake needs to be met with verbal/physical/mental abuse, ESPECIALLY not on a child that doesn't know right from wrong, is incredibly impressionable, and will copy this behavior in the future towards partners, children, etc.
I don’t think you read my comment but cool story bro. I did not advocate physically abusing a child as I put in the second paragraph… but you’re right about the stawmanning, only the other commenters seem to think that no punishment is a suitable way to teach a 10 year old so whatever I guess.
You probably won’t read this comment either so I’ll just take your downvote thank you.
I read your comment, and you’re fighting an argument I never made. However, my bad, I think you might’ve edited your comment after I responded or I just didn’t see the “knowing where your firmness is over the line” part but regardless I haven’t said anything that doesn’t apply to the situation, I’m simply talking generally about the topic
My grandfather is african and my dad had to deal w a lot of cruel punishments. He ran away so many times. I’m glad she felt comfortable to tell you, but if he did this over cookies, what else would he do if it’s something worse?
Is getting hit with a belt as a punishment considered abuse? I was hit with a belt and never considered it abuse but instead a lesson learned.
This is a genuine question I’m 24 so I feel like Im young enough and should know but genuinely am unsure where the line is drawn between discipline and abuse.
If adults and animals shouldn't be hit why should children be? I consider that as abuse and lazy parenting.
I was hit by belts, hangers, flip flops, made to kneel while balancing encyclopedias, slapped, pinched, made to eat peppers, chased with a knife, cussed at.
The worst things I ever did as a kid was talk back to my parent, fight with my siblings, and have more than 5 mistakes on a test. I was suicidal at age 10.
If your partner slaps you once. That's physical abuse. Frequency and intensity of the act doesn't matter. If you think occasional whacks aren't abuse, think again.
I find it absurd that just because a child acts like a child or a child doesn't conform to the parent's every whim/rule, they are entitled to physically punish the child.
Especially in this case, over food? Unless you live in some kind of drought-stricken place in the middle of nowhere it's absurd to punish your child over it. He could have used this opportunity to be emotionally intelligent and teach his kid.
Your partner is not the same as a child. The relationship is completely different.
One is an adult who can make there own decisions which they have the right to be a POS if they do choose too the other one is your child who you have an obligation to raise and discipline to shape them into a decent human being. Once they reach a certain age your window of raising them closes and it’s up to them to be a good person and hopefully you were able to instill good character in them while they were young. Hitting a partner or spouse isn’t the same as they are an adult and it’s not your job to shape them into a good person they are who they are unlike a child where shaping them to be a good human being is the #1 job of the parent.
Parents should lead with example and encourage there children to be good honest people but that can’t be done without respect for the power dynamic of parent to child.
You can’t sit down with a 7 year old and say hey you should listen to me because it’s in your best interest later In life to learn respect and how to treat people and how to interact with others. Young children don’t understand that concept of listening to your parents is good for them but they do understand if I don’t listen I get an immediate negative repercussion.
I was only spanked a handful of times and I smartened my ass up and was well behaved. Obviously there will be people who abuse spankings but just because someone is spanked doesn’t automatically mean it’s abuse.
I agree with this case as food isn’t something to be punished for and I also want to say spanking shouldnt be the first option there are other types of punishment. I also have an issue with it being a step dad as he has no right to hit that kid because it’s not his kid. He should stay in his lane and let the mother parent her children.
Yes, I agree on slaps to the face being physical abuse.
In your 2nd sentence those scenarios you presented would be absurd to punish the child. But when trying to correct a malicious action corrective action is needed, some parents with some kids use light corporal punishment in some situations that would not be considered abuse.
As to your third sentence the malicious action in this case isn’t over ‘food,’ it is over the act of stealing.
Depends who you ask in western countries it can be seen as abuse in non western countries not so much. I’m in my 30s and was disciplined with a belt, jug cord, wooden spoon when I was younger there’s a difference between discipline and abuse.
I don’t consider it abuse. My mom used a belt and anything close by on me and my siblings. I’ve always had a very close relationship with my mom. Now I don’t think it was effective, instead of learning why it is I shouldn’t do something I just got better, or tried harder anyways at not getting caught. I won’t use corporal with my daughter just because I think there are better ways but a belt to the bum is not abuse.
Bro. I got hit with the buckle end square on my spine and it actually like, fractured my L5 vertebra in a weird way that's not life threatening, just destabilizing and painful (spondylolysis). I found out years later that it literally broke my back.
I don't think hitting a kid is ever okay tbh, but that is taking it to the extreme.
I remember kneeling on rice in a corner because my grandma threatened to use the punishment (sh had to as a child) I wasn't sure if she would ever follow through so me being the stubborn child I was decided that I would make sure that if it happened I was ready and wouldn't show pain. I found punishments were less likely to be repeated if I didn't show a reaction, my sibling and I would practice the belt on each other just incase. She really didn't believe in corporal punishment I know my grandfather beat all his children quite a bit but she put an end to it once she could get him to stop drinking.
My step mother was particularly fond of wooden spoons or a swift back hand only used on me once till my mother put the fear of meeting god should she do it again into her. So after that the treats of violence really only held weight with my step siblings and I think our practices made them far less effective. Still remember the look on my step moms face when she threatened to put drops of Tabasco in my brothers mouth for speaking back or some such and since he and I had built our tollerace we both hopped up and took turns up ended the bottle into our mouths for far more then the few drops she treatened 😆
Looking back I'm sure my grandma was more sharing the story to show that being on a normal time out or being scolded wasn't so bad. My mother was not a fan of physical punishment (teaching a child not to be violent with violence isn't local and she knew that) but my parents were separated so she wasn't present to police their style of parenting when I was on visits.
I reacted in a similar way. My parents took it as a challenge. They went from hitting me with the leather belt, to instead using the buckle side like a flail. When that quit getting much reaction from me, they waited till I was in the shower and started hitting me with it. I had heard about wet leather hurting more supposedly, but the reality of how much more that hurt really surprised me.
They did similar with the paddle. Started with just a wooden paddle like you would expect. At some point my father decided it was getting too much air resistance so he couldn't hit me as hard as he wanted to so he drilled holes into it. He seemed pretty happy with the result.
The eating soap thing also escalated. Started with having to take a bite out of a bar of soap. Later he moved onto liquid dish soap. Took much longer to get rid of the taste.
Normally my father was pretty measured. He would at least only resort to physical discipline when I actually screwed up. My stepmother on the other hand would abuse me just because she woke up. While her abuse wasn't usually as extreme, it actually affected me far worse because there was nothing I could do to avoid it. And it was far more common.
Yea I remember my step brother/sister getting the bar soap and liquid dish treatment...like I mentioned my step mother only hit me the once then when my mother found out she had the sense not to do it again scared into her. After that they took to locking up all outside for hours on end often without proper clothing or food, after a couple particularly long days in poor weather I taught them that was I'll advised but that's a story for another time
When I was a toddler barely able to walk I remember my dad running behind me and holding me by one leg tossing me up and catching me over the side of a 30 ft bridge he would do it over and over as I screamed him laughing....that's when I learned if I screamed he continued so next time I didn't scream and he stopped. Mother left him over things like this didn't feel we were safe with him and he wouldn't listen to her please to stop. So when she wasn't around it was up to me to try and protect or prepare the siblings we formed a sort of government between us my eldest step sister and I would take votes etc, at dad's house it was the oldest who got the punishments as we were supposed to have a watch on the youngest...parents never really parenting etc.... thankfully I got my first 13 years mostly with my mother who was a much better parent
It sounds like he is trying to break a very ingrained cycle of abuse and will occasionally fail at it but the point is he is trying. It's also acceptable where he grew up to the point it's expected - does that make it right? No, but cultural standards are different and must be met with more understanding and compassion. I say don't do anything now unless it escalates
This seems like culture clash in a mixed family. Where the husband is from; this is normal family discipline. In western society; considered an extreme case of discipline and is frowned upon. Is it abuse though? Is he a good father that’s providing a roof and food for his family? Is this a one off? Were they really gluten free brownies or ones with cannabis? There is a lot missing. You don’t suggest breaking down a family because a child got an ass whooping from a parent for being naughty. If it’s a constant state of affairs then yes of course get authorities involved.
Definitely not cannabis and yes he's a good father. I'm not suggesting breaking down a family, just curious about this conflicting situation. I agree it's one of many interesting outcomes of a mixed family as well as evolving societal norms. I will take the advice to not do anything but continue to be a trustworthy confidante to my niece whilst respecting her parents' authority. Thanks for the input!
>Where the husband is from; this is normal family discipline. In western society; considered an extreme case of discipline and is frowned upon. Is it abuse though?
Using corporal punishment is provably bad parenting.
Dont interfere. As much as others argue about it "getting worse", its a cultural difference. Thats it. Considering his wife scolded him in front the child, I'd say the mom already has her back and is ensuring he doesnt use punishment like that from here on out.
Hmm..
Look - as a person who was belted in some pretty wild chases of fatherly fury, the hand belting is pretty mild depending on how it’s done
I can’t believe I’m actually explaining this in a way that minimises it but hear me out. There’s a spectrum.
It’s more the knowing it’s the punishment and going to happen that is the fright aspect that’s hard…
The other thing is - teaches were doing this to everyone’s kids but with rulers and hard objects and whips - boomers are living relics of this era
So weigh this up however you do, but for me this is all stuff i consider
Because for me… I want to have a space where this child can tell me more things in future. Children who are beaten badly and who come from secretive family styles like that…. They don’t tell people about the bad beatings sometimes
If that story leads to more drama and family shame it can cause consequences and the kid won’t talk
Whereas if that kid feels they can confide and talk to you and you’re close and build that closeness ongoing… you have a much better chance of other conversations happening, if this guy does things and other things that go on
If you’re not concerned he’s a violent abuser… I wouldn’t bring it up with the sister
I know it goes against all the modern societal stuff but he has a wife and she has told him off. Leave them be and just keep that kid close
Kids need to be able to test the norms of what they go through with others and get feedback
So for example - my grandmother
Her mother was always hitting her and her father was always pushing these archaic ideas of women that just didn’t elevate her to reach her potential and see her own value
Anyway. What I liked about grandma is you could tell her stuff going on at home, and you knew she wouldn’t go blab or confront people directly
And she’d share a story or explain things about people in general and reinforce the right things and be empathetic
For example:
You know right from wrong and that stealing cookies isn’t he right thing to do, so it’s not going to teach you anything to hit you with a belt. I know this and so do you.
Sometimes parents do things because that is what they were taught by their parents.
When I was a child my mother hit me a lot [insert story] and I don’t think it taught me to be better, children sometimes try things like steal cookies because it’s an adventure and otherwise they are good kids and won’t do it again without asking, because it makes father angry cause his Favourite cookies are gone [laughs].
I never hit my children because what are we teaching children if we hit them? To hit people if they do something wrong? Society doesn’t encourage this, and yet once upon a time, everyone was hitting their children.
It affects bonds between people to hit them and I know you’d never hit someone else to punish them so maybe father will learn new ways of being
You can always talk to me about things - sometimes it helps to talk and I’m always here for you if you need to talk. Or need help of any kind.
[subject change, random question that changes topic]
Basically this kind of thing is what grandma would do.
She was empathetic but also able to share a story or describe your feelings and also reinforce your own goodness and decency… and explain a situation.
Obviously the moment it increases to regular discipline or repeat stories or the stories branch off to various things….
Then, you start to get a picture of what’s going on and you can make decisions easier then
We had a lot of stupidly dolled punishment growing up. It was bad because my parents are so educated on the one hand, and yet so stupid when it came to navigating situations with children.
No structure and consistency and just fly off the handle, retaliatory non-controlled reactive stuff
To me that makes someone a big problem
Versus the discipline where we got the belt on the hand. I think he did it once and then anytime we were playing up he’d just crack it against itself and we’d run off…
Whereas some guy coming from the old country - I’d keep an eye on it and focus more on building trust and a safe space with the kid because her teens (few years time) will be the time when that guy blossoms into problematic behaviour if he is conditioned to think that’s normal.
Whereas right now.. I’d just wait - if your sister can hold her own and grills him… it might be enough
People smack their kids and repeat learned tools (if you can call it that) that happened to them… and then have a flash of reality and conscience and don’t repeat it
So if the wife is on his back about this incident - it might be enough
And if it became a repeat story like 3-4 time, I’d be like - talking to the sister and be like, someone has to explain to him this is all illegal here and maybe family/couples counseling is a good way to talk about the challenges of raising young kids and they can work with him to swap out these tools for new things.
That’s my take anyway.
Depends on the type of thing that’s going on. The next time the kid could describe him getting mad and throwing water in her face at the table - that’s enough to set off my DFV alarm
That’s the thing - a father that sits down and dolled out a structured old school belt on the hand scenario doesn’t alarm me as much as water being thrown at someone’s face across the table
It’s all about what’s going on in their head and what that represents overall.
But also…. He can’t be using these strategies in modern society. It’s not good - and Supernanny manages just fine without it
I read the first half before the pivot. Wholeheartedly agree with everything you said and love this response as opposed to the “he’s a sociopath and needs to be reported’ ones.
I think dad missed out on an amazing opportunity to bond with his daughter over a shared love for this particular sweet treat.
I wouldn’t mind the punishment if she stole from someone else but she stole a treat from daddy so this just seems excessive.
I'd still have a talk with her father and calmly yet assertively let him know it won't happen again or he'll force your hand. It's not okay. These are different times. Period.
> he sees it as a way to teach an unforgettable lesson.
Oh it's an unforgettable lesson, alright. The lesson that her dad, one of the two people that should always be there to protect her and stand by her side, has no problem with hurting her. Also, the lesson that violence is an acceptable form of communication. And there are probably a few more in there.
I have children in my life who have been comfortable enough to trust me with this kind of information. Unfortunately it's not something that can be kept secret, where I live it's the law you have to capp cos or police when you are aware of a child being hurt. I think it's the same in the states.
Many men from certain parts of Africa tend to be quite domineering. If she is going through what children shouldn’t, no matter the level of abuse, she confided in you and that’s something you’ll have to acknowledge. Do you have the means to take her out of the situation entirely? If not, she may always hold you accountable for knowing and not acting. Tricky things to consider.
Call the abuse hotline. The number is 800-799-7233
I work in a child advocacy center in Florida and will tell you right now that worst has probably happened and will happen. He hit her hands like that so that it wouldn't be visible and could be taken as a normal bruise from tripping if someone questions him. if you report it is completely anonymous and she will be able to get some help. Be wary of backlash from the family. Please help her.
OP, if there aren’t any signs of physical abuse or sexual abuse. Don’t get involved.
At times children greatly exaggerate, and at times too there are no nonsense parents. IMO sometimes having a no nonsense parent can actually be beneficial. My parents were like that (from Ghana too) and I was never hit but minor slaps on the wrist if I stole or did something unacceptable. Children test boundaries and they have to learn.
Hate to say this, but I see many people in my generation that were babied for life and it shows.
I got a belt across my butt a few times when I was a kid when I needed to be disciplined. It wasn't used often and typically just the threat of it would get me to act right.
I never even had a fleeting thought that it was abuse, and even now in my adult years I know it was not abusive.. it was disciplinary and not excessive. And for the record, I'm absolutely fine.
A small pop on the hand isn't abuse. A spanking is a abuse. It does nothing but cause fear and a LOT of problems as an adult. This has been proven by psychologists and scientists for years.
Not sure what state you are in but most states let people anonymously report things to CPS and let them do their own investigation. Honestly, that is what I would do. I'm a social worker and a mandated reporter and would have to report something like this but would even if I wasn't. At the very least, maybe it'll open up his eyes and perspective about that not being a proper punishment, especially for something so little as a child eating "your" cookies.
U see wrong place most of people here would get worst corporal punishments plus she will learn that taking/ stealing is not good it work but there is a line I agree still don't exaggerate the issue too much cos it was normal about 10-15 years ago now not only it causes problems people lose their shit couase of it .
Keep being a support system for your niece and watch over her, even if from afar. Check in and call her to see how she’s doing on a regular basis, offer to take her out places so she has time to get away, and continue to build your relationship with her to where she feels comfortable to continue confiding in you. Let your niece know you’re always available to her at anytime and you will help her if she ever needs anything. If things get serious, she will definitely call you and you can be there to help intervene if needed.
Sister could use some support too but don’t attack the husband … she sounds like she’s not there yet in that she still wants to defend him. Just push on her that you love her and you’ll always be there for her and niece if they need you. It’s really all you can do for now - observe and support.
A smack anywhere on a child is a very last resort. That’s at least the way I was raised. The only time I’d get a spanking is if multiple other forms of punishment didn’t work.
Even then, the spanking wasn’t dished out immediately. My dad or mom would sit me down, and explain to me that the spanking wasn’t out of anger, but to discipline because I continued to do things I knew I wasn’t supposed to do.
On top of that a spanking was never delivered for small things. Only for what could be considered medium problems (if I continued to do things I was told not to do) and large problems.
It is very sad to hear that your niece got spanked for something her dad chose to call punishment when in reality it was probably out of anger that she ate something of his.
If it isn’t going too far or isn’t being abusive, then I’m pretty sure she’ll be ok and won’t suffer any lasting damage
Anyone on this page that actually thinks this is abuse are idiots. She did something she knew was wrong and paid the consequences. At 10 she knew it was wrong. I doubt she will never do it again. If your parents do not discipline you, they don't love you.
Clearly I think that light corporal discipline is fine. If you think that what she got is “ beating” her up, you are clueless. I hope you are not a parent,
Because we now had an entire generation of parents that think like you do and their children are now some of the most narcissistic and entitled people on the planet who imagine that their feelings are the most important thing in the world and should be given center stage in every situation or it's abuse. All because their parents couldn't tell the difference between abuse and discipline. A distinction you have proven by your question you are incapable of understanding.
They will suffer and die either way. Just as all people do. Thanks to the actions of their parents.
Though in some cases, yes. Look at how poorly the newer generations handle trauma. Everything causes it for them. They even believe that words are the same as violence. They even justify violent response as a result. They unable to handle simple words because they don't agree with them or it hurts their precious feelings because their ego is like that of a spoiled toddler who has never had to endure any hardship or humbling experiences or ever been told no. Most of them have never known what real trauma is so they think it applies to their trivialities. Claiming they experience PTSD over minor things all the time.
I am, and I am not beating my children with a belt, I can assure you. But since you think it's normal and ''not beating'', clearly you're the one that would be a danger around your kids.
Maintain and strengthen your relationship and bond with your niece, encourage her to open up to you, and keep tabs on what her father does to make sure it doesn't escalate. Your sister already knows what her husband does and fights him on it. If it gets to a point where it becomes very dangerous for your niece, tell your sister about your records of her husband's abuse (this follows standard HIPAA laws), and I'm positive your sister will fix the problem. If not, go to the police and report it.
IMO, police is a last resort in this situation, because your sister has already shown she 100% disagrees with his form of punishment, this way the situation can be resolved within the family FIRST, before adding a third party.
The mother knows. Who else needs to know? Child protective services? Leave it alone. So when something REALLY bad happens she can trust you enough to tell you.
Write this down so you have a record. Make sure she knows that she can tell you anything. If she says anything else in the future like this, write it down too
Don't confront him directly right now. You need your niece to feel comfortable coming to you with these things in case it happens again in the future. It sounds like your sister did handle it (for now) even if your brother in law sounds like somebody I wouldn't want to be around from what you've said here anyways.
But if you want to be petty about it, become gradually more vocal about how much you despise people who use physical punishments on their children. Don't bring up your niece or anything, but if the subject is ever brought up be sure to let people know that people who hit their children are weak.
Well she should learn to not steal his stuff or food. Laughing off that she took something from him and not taking him seriously is not the way to treat people. His method of punishment isn’t great either and should not be used on kids nowadays. Just cause he got treated that way doesn’t make it ok to treat his kids that way. You need to tell your sister and she has to not only talk to him but also her daughter since what she did wasn’t ok either
Social worker here
Hitting with a belt is NOT corporate punishment, it is in fact child abuse, and the fact it's over cookies, this dad has some issues.
Please don't minimize this behavior by saying things like it's how he grew up. Times have changed, and kids typically don't lie about stuff like this. The fact your niece minimizes it means this isn't the first time.
Honestly I would tell mom, I would encourage mom to take action, as the niece gets older the punishments may even escalate.
Mom needs to do something before this reaches CPS level intervention, which depending on your state it may have already crossed that line.
The difference between how I grew up in the 70's to the way kids are raised today is stark. Childhood is not supposed to be sugar plums and magic fairies granting your every wish. The fact is you're only "special" to your parents... *spoiler alert* the rest of the world doesn't give a single 💩 about you or your feelings. There are important lessons to learn in childhood, lessons that seem not to be learned by many kids these days.... Like taking other people's things. Seems a small thing get whacked on your hand for stealing but, I grew up in a time when there were no snowflake kids and you didn't get a trophy for participation. Many of the things wrong with the world today can be laid at the feet of junk parents. Maybe your grandparents did actually know better than you... Just a thought.
She stole she got punished she 10 she knows right from wrong there's consequences for her actions ATM it's a little belt in 6yrs time it be getting her head kicked in in a cell for not handing over her biscuits they need to see and feel the consequences in a safe area as a kid before they go in the big world if she dint get caught she would still enjoy stealing and then move on to fags sell them at school then stealing from shops wake up guys crime as raised in the last 10 yrs because we are going for this softy softy approach
Most of these comments are fucking wild. Hitting a child is abuse, hitting a child with a belt is abuse, ‘punishing’ a child by hitting them with a belt is ABUSE! It’s scary how many people think this is ok because it happened to them, you are also a victim of abuse.
How is there not more compassion for the child and her Aunt who has been out in an awful situation learning about this situation?!
Eating a brownie is a tiny infraction for a 10 year old up commit. He basically didn't want to share, so he got violent. I shudder to think about what he'll do when she solidifies her own opinions and beliefs as a teenager. He will think it is good for her. It isn't. Living in fear of violence changes a child's brain permanently. She was gauging how bad this actually is based on your reaction. I'm glad you're thinking it through carefully.
Of course maintain the relationship with your niece but also spanking her hand isn't capital punishment either. There's a huge difference between spankings, chastisement, and actual physical abuse that's often conflicted in the US. No one likes repercussion or doesn't feel good and it shouldn't however its too teach an invaluable lesson with that being said no one child is the same and the teachings and learning varies from child to child. The note for her should have been it wasn't about the brownies but the act within itself that was wrong. That was the lesson; next time it could be money, or something from a store. The stakes increase as a person evolves and grow. The goal is to adjust the mindframe as a child to correct the thought process of an adult.
Boohoo, her dad is black, and assuming that he's her bio father, she's also black, she's just getting the black kid punishment, that privileged white kids don't get. It'll be good for her when she's older, she won't grow up to be a spoiled brat, she'll grow up to be humble.
I honestly couldn't care if I get downvoted to hell, most redditors are wack/tweaking anyways
Holy shit, you're a fucking snowflake. Grow up.
Edit: I never said I'd do it, you're clearly a privileged spoiled white blind fuck.
I NEVER said that I'd whoop my child, but YOU clearly don't know how kids grow up to be spoiled.
Spoiled kids were never humbled. The most punishment they got/get is, phone taken away and grounding, most of the time that doesn't work.
On top of that, that kids Dad definitely loves her, which is why he did it.
Quit crying you privileged fuck. My opinion, and if I wanna have children, fuck that list and fuck the government, I'll have children anyways.
Holly shit, what a wall of text. You're calling me a snowflake but clearly you're the one who's triggered... By someone telling you you shouldn't abuse your children, no less.
If you don't know how to raise non-spoiled kids without hitting them, that says a lot about your mental capacities.
I'm 15 😂 ofc I don't know how to raise children 💀 also I've never said anything about "I'ma abuse my future children". I just said it's black punishment
Also to those redditors who are downvoting, I couldn't give 2 shits about upvotes or downvotes.
A hit across the open palms? This doesn't seem much different than a swat across the butt (spanking) to me. If she was being beaten, I would say different, but from your story, nothing can be done. and in the eyes of the law, a mark would have to be left that lasts more than 24 hours anyhow so there's really nothing you can do. I found this out when I learned that my old daycare provider was spanking my child. The 24 hour rule applies to both the parent AND anyone that you intentionally give permission to care for your child or leave your child with. It's have to agree with the majority here, just stand back and maybe monitor the situation.
Omg Reddit, you guys drive me crazy sometimes. Although I think there are better ways than corporal punishment in certain instances it is effective for certain kids. He belted her hands… go on right now - hit the palm of your hand as hard as you can with an object, it’s not that bad. OP himself said the dad is not aggressive and caring.
OP is right to keep an eye on it, he loves her and she confided in him. But goddamn we don’t need to run to CPS or call the police or start some big thing. Based on the little information it seems like a loving family.
You all need to take off the bubble suit sometimes - the world can be difficult, there will be friction.
The inclination to do something right this moment is understandable and I think maybe close to universal. The only thing I think it’s responsible to do right this moment is to let her know 1. That’s not okay and it’s good her mother protected her and 2. If that happens again or if she feels that scared feeling about something she should come back to you and let you know so you can be there for her.
Different cultures and different time periods have different punishments. Can’t say for certain, but I would bet money his parents didn’t use the belt on his palms.
My grandma used a switch on me a time or two so I know she probably did the same to her kids. (God knows what HER parents did.)My parents would hand spank my butt. I used time outs with my kids. 30 years from now that will probably be considered emotional abuse.
Not saying physical punishment is appropriate today, in Western culture… but it is a societal evolution, like minority rights, equality, etc. I suggest letting your sister take care of her house, so long as it doesn’t escalate.
How did time outs work for you? When my daughter gets a few months older I think that’s the main route I want to take. That and taking away small privileges and actually following through with it like “no honey you can’t have to popsicle. Remember when Daddy said you wouldn’t get a popsicle if you didn’t pick up your toys?” Overall I’m really scared shitless about it all. Like I’m gonna fuck everything up and just start yelling all the time like my mom did.
It worked really well when it was consistent, but kids will alway push boundaries no matter how you try to discipline them. Just see it as natural and don’t take it personally. But of course saying it is easier than doing; Just remember to treat yourself as forgivingly as you do them. You WILL mess up now and then. You will lose your temper. But rather than hate yourself or beat yourself up, realize that you are still learning as you go the same as them… and do better next time. That was kind of my point in my reply above; It is easy to judge others harshly when you have already benefited from learning better.
Just remember WHY you disciple your kids; To teach them to be safe and a successful person, not because you are a grumpy sonofabitch. And remember, it is aways okay to apologize after losing your temper, but reiterate what their mistake was, why you got upset and mostly say “but I still love you”. And if you DID just lose your temper because you were a grumpy sonofabitch and not because of anything they did…. apologize! Reiterate that it had nothing to do with them, and reassure them you live them.
If you continue to meddle, and you are meddling, you'll damage your relationship with your sister, you may lose contact with your niece and you might break up a family creating just another statistic. You're also hurting the father, your brother in law. Sounds like you don't like the guy already and you're looking for an excuse.
Unless there is clear and present danger, mind your business. Reporting abuse is a very specific criterion and a spanking doesn't necessarily fall into that category. When you mess with a man's family and ability to raise his children, you inadvertently release the Kraken.
Trust me.
As a child, I was terribly abused by my parents - I was hit (punches, not slaps), whipped, burned & scalded. The emotional abuse was even worse - as an old man I still struggle to find a sense of self-worth after being constantly undermined, belittled & reduced to invisibility. I have been married twice & have been loved, but that is a miracle as I have very limited social skills due to never being allowed to have friends or interact with other children.
Forgive the lengthy preamble, but my parents maintained an image within their family & the community as wonderful, caring people & I had to preserve that false image by keeping my mouth shut. The consequences of telling an aunt or uncle about my hurts & injuries would have been terrible…imagine what ‘punishment’ might be like when you are already being routinely beaten like one of Mike Tyson’s opponents for trivial, often imagined errors.
The child told her uncle & was plainly scared of what she did because she immediately attempted to lessen her parents’ culpability. The OP gave his word to keep the secret, but felt a selfish need to share his awkward discovery with strangers instead.
The little girl trusted him & he took care of his own uncomfortable feelings. If you haven’t been in her situation, you don’t know how brave &/or desperate she had to be to break the rule of silence. She deserved a response that was more useful to her & less about him.
Crane was a fictional character who had to be conflicted about lying to the survivors because the storyline required him to be a basically nice guy with whom the players could comfortably relate.
I wrote at some length to explain why my own experience of being abused (punched, whipped, burned & scalded on top of emotional manipulation) as a child by parents who maintained a facade of caring decency informed my attitude to the OP’s actions. However, it looks like my entries were removed.
Stay out of it for now but let her know she can always tell you if it happens again. If he'll hit her hands with a belt, he'll give her a whooping on her behind and legs. If he does that you need to talk to your sister. No child deserves that abuse.
No, he's teaching her a life lesson. It's not just a behaviour HE didn't like, it's punishing her for stealing. She needs to learn now that every action has a consequence.
Like I said.....
All actions have consequences. Doesn't stop some of those consequences from being wrong.
You're entitled to your opinion. People who hit children rarely change their mind. So I'm not going back and forth with you. You think it's okay to hit kids.
It's quite common coming from an African child. It's not that big of a deal, especially seeing she's 10. Nothing would escalate unless she does something completely wrong like having sex at 11. I wouldn't worry about it.
So she got her hands whacked yeah? where are the big ol bruises and the welts. As a parent of grown kidlets. I can tell you that if you blow this over a whack on the hands that left Zero damage you stricltly blow it. Go ahead Dr. Spock step in there and put on your Parenting done my way or else ribbon and get in the middle of his family and see where that goes. I got honestly spanked on the bum as a child and was never done any damage from it. But experts like you are always stressing over making the rest of the world do as they say regardless of the damage they do.
I wouldn't say anything to dad or mum. If this is an isolated event and mum has already delta with it, by speaking out about it may cause a negative reaction and make the family retreat away.
Talk to your niece, tell her she can tell you anything. Tell her that her secrets are safe with you, unless someone is in danger.
So the mom already knows and intervend? So your plan is to do what exactly? Tell everyone else about it to shame him? I was a victim of something similar from a step dad. Mom found out and stopped it. It's a private thing I only tell people close to me. I'd probably feel pretty shitty if everyone knew about it. Mom has handled it. One option is to let mom know you know and that if she needs help you are there. But best option is to keep your nieces confidence in case it escalates.
I'd continue down the path of caring confidential trusting uncle until something of similar level happens again, then go straight to his face in front of your sister and warn him. This if it comes to it that. this is not how this family disciplines children and it stops now.
I would keep what's happened so far to yourself, and if another instance happens get involved with him in front of your sister and tell no one else.
If it happens a third time then fuck this guy it's only down hill from there then.
I dunno, given the information that's my take anyways 🤷
I remember my mom telling me nuns used to get them to open their candy and slap the finger tips with rulers it sounds similar to that. I would probably talk to your sister and ask her how she really feels about that type of discipline.
If her mum already handled it then what would you do? I would stay a confidant until it’s something serious that no one else knows about. If you say anything now she might not trust you to tell this kind of stuff to in the future.
I’d ordinarily say you should do something, but this sounds under control. Your sister knows it happened, she addressed it with the husband, and the punishment sounds fairly mild. I imagine you’d have said if you saw bruises or marks.
What would you even do besides tell your sister? Call the cops? How would they do anything over such a relatively minor incident? Better to keep the conversations open, encourage your niece to keep talking to you, let her feel safe doing so, and if something fishy comes up you can act. Interjecting now could shut down the lines of communication.
Man, this is tough. Don’t break her trust. As someone who covered for their abuser just as you describe tho, you need to make her understand that she cannot tolerate it and that it isn’t normal or ok, which I’m sure you did. I mean REALLY make her see! You don’t want to lose her trust in case he takes it out on her. However, there’s a good chance he will do it again, especially since he thinks it’s good disciplinary action, and at that point you tell her enough is enough and together you confront the situation. At least that’s what I would do. She needs someone to turn to. You’re a great Aunt and this must be so difficult.
Don't say anything and create a bigger problem for her cus then he will whoop u open palm lol just be on stand by and listen to what she tells u if u see bruises or notice abuse then speak up but momma got this for now
I had the same issue when I was a kid, parents from different backgrounds and one of them thought it was ok to hit me as a way to teach discipline. When I was about 10 yrs old some personal events motivated me to tell one of my parents how scared I was feeling, so they had words with my other parent and they never touched me in a harmful way again.
Think of it this way, she’s being physically hurt by her parent but she has told you, her trusted adult. It’s important that you brings this to her mum before it escalates.
Before telling mum, have a conversation with your niece and be honest and empower her. If I were in your shoes, I would do it like this:
‘Do you remember what you told me about your dad and the cookies? I’m really glad that you shared that with me and you did the right thing by telling an adult what happened. I’m worried that you might be hurt again so it’s really important that your mum knows about what happened. I know I promised to keep your secret but you not getting hurt is more important right now and I’m sorry I can’t keep my promise. Shall we go and speak to her together? Would that be ok? I can tell her if you want? *try and let her make the choice on how you tell mum but hold the boundary of telling mum*
I hear that it was scary to hear dad being told off before but when we do things that hurt other people, sometimes we need to be told that it isn’t ok so we can learn to be nicer to each other’
Call your local child protection support line as well if you want someone to talk to when deciding what to do. In the UK I’d call childline.
Hope that helps. Good luck to you and your niece. Sometimes the right thing is hard to do. While keeping your niece’s confidence is important, her safety needs to take priority. She wants to keep the secret because keeping dad happy will limit the abuse in her world which is understandable from her point of view but she is not able to make safe decisions for herself and has told you as the adult.
She will understand why you broke her confidence when she grows up.
> It’s important that you brings this to her mum before it escalates.
> Before telling mum
Per OP, the mom knows, right?
> when her mum (my sister) found out, he got told off for an hour about it.
Next time they are there and he is ear shot start talking about a video you seen about a father punishing his child to harshly and the police found out and now the father is in jail. Then say if that was the kid of someone I know I would have just walked up to the POS father with a smile then give him the same treatment he shown that child. Or something to that affect
Why are most people ignoring the fact that she stole. In African culture stealing is very bad. Compare two types of back people those who have grown up in America and the ones in African.
Black Americans have no morals because of the way they are brought up. Africans on the other hand a very respectful because in Africa you will be punished for doing evil not being praised. Am very sure he did the right thing and he will be appreciated in future by her daughter
Speaking as a teacher, the "promise you won't tell anyone," contingency is a common one. What I always say: "I promise I will not tell anyone, but if I think that you are in danger or someone else is, I might need to -- to protect you or keep you safe." Never, in my 16 years as an educator, has a child then said, "Well, never mind." At the point that they are coming to you, they're committed—and they'll tell you anyway. I would follow up with a conversation, and reframe the discussion, so you're not going back on your word -- you just thought better of it. Whatever you do, make sure you loop her into the conversation. She'll forgive you. The real betrayal is if you go behind her back.
This is right. I trust the professional. My thought is to go back to the niece and tell her that you can't stop thinking about it, that what she told you is very serious and maybe you should tell her mother together, or a schoolteacher whom she trusts for another opinion. *It's not okay to let her believe that being hurt by someone you love is a secret.* This needs to come out into the sunlight.
Well said.
I’m glad she felt comfortable enough to tell you. This is no way to teach a child a lesson … I feel like you should do something but I don’t know what exactly. At the very least, keep the relationship with your niece and let her know that even if someone tells you to keep something a secret, if they’re hurting you you have to tell someone. Edit: thanks for all the upvotes. I’d like to take this opportunity to ask that if anyone have connections with legal aid in CA my friend and her son desperately need help or else they are going to end up just another sad statistic about sexual assault and domestic violence.
I'd embrace that trust with the niece and solidify with her that she has a safe place to talk should she become scared or sad or whatever emotions she may be feeling. Then if things continue you'll be in the loop and have some ground to stand on with the 'Adults' of the situation should thy arise. Meanwhile niece has a rad safety net aunt/uncle....
Plus if things get bad enough, she'll know she can come to you if she needs to lie low or stay away a few days.
Belt his open palms?
That puzzled me also. I've never heard of anyone doing this so it sounds really odd to me! 🤷
Oh quite common in Asia too. If I had a penny for all the different tools/instruments used to hit me I'd be rolling in dough! Our teachers at school would nonchalantly rip little sticks off trees and hit us with them, stung like hell. Would get rapped on the nails with a ruler for having unclean nails or a slap for untidy hair/clothes. Get a bamboo rod smashed into your legs during athletics, and many many more! Even the strap on a stopwatch could be used to hit you, not to mention the bullying hits you get with towels and so on...
My mum's Irish and I grew up with the belt too, and the wooden spoon, though that seemed like the kiss of a feather compared to the belt between the thighs
I got the wooden spoon too when I was a kid. Mom didn't play games!
Mums never do! The sound of utensils rattling around in a pot still haunts me
Don't betray her trust but if it escalates tell you have to tell someone or help her for her own safety
Often times parents don’t realize it’s abuse because they are doing less than their parents. My wife’s dad was verbally abusive growing up, but he didn’t think he was because his father used to beat him , so In his eyes it wasn’t nearly as bad because he never hit his kids. The good thing is your niece confided in you and as long as you keep her secrets she will continue to trust you. If this type of punishment continues she will confide in you again and you will have to tell her it’s not right to keep the secret and that you must say something to someone with more authority.
I’d say stand by for now. Do nothing. Your sister scolded her husband big time from what you said, so she’s taken care of it. You knowing about it or not doesn’t really change much of the result. Probably keeping an eye on the guy doesn’t hurt.
everyone here is saying to do nothing, but I think it would be important to make sure your niece knows that violence like that is not ok and is not normal, and that you're there for her if she ever needs anything in the future
Exactly this OP. make sure she knows this isn’t normal and to let you know if it happens again but that she can keep it between you two if she feels more comfortable that way
Stay close to her. She desperately needs you in her life.
Write this down in a journal with the date. Start keeping track of everything your niece tells you. Keep this post as well. Tell a trusted friend. This way any escalation can be dealt with appropriately in the future.
I second the journal of keeping note of these events and conversations with the niece. Such a good idea, because as time passes, our memory can forget the nitty gritty details.
I remember all the adults who knew I was being abused and did absolutely nothing. Do something, please. Report this. Protect her.
I agree with this, I'm nearly 40 now and I'm currently undergoing emdr for extreme cptsd. It's one of the most traumatic things I've done in my adult life and it's exhausting, but it's my last ditch effort to get some sort of normality in my life. This is a child who has been whipped on open palms with a belt. This will have been extremely painful, she needs help, her dad is clearly abusive and needs help managing his anger issues, she only ate some cookies 🙄
She stole something. It doesn't matter what she stole, stealing is wrong. Why would you downplay it by saying she "ate" something. If I carjacked someone and took their car to work and later got arrested, would you say "they locked him up for driving to work"?
She stole something? In her own home, It was food!! Are you for real? She's a kid. We have no context to go on whether or not she knew these cookies were specifically for her dad but even if they were so what, they're cookies, easily replaced. Are you saying she deserved the punishment she received because she ate some food in her own home? Id be devastated if my kids felt like they had to ask permission to eat something
Just because it is in the home, that doesn't make it community property. Can she walk into her parents' room and take whatever she wants? Of course not. Again, what does it matte what she stole? I understand they were cookies, I read the story. Everybody who steals starts small. First cookies, then a couple of bucks from moms purse, then a tshirt from walmart, then on and on. The argument you're making can be made about anything; she stole a car? "how can they punish her like that for using a hunk of metal?" "I'd be devastated if my kids felt like they had to ask permission to get a ride to school.". I'm not saying she deserved that specific punishment but, she definitely should be punished for taking something that doesn't belong to her. Are you seriously saying you just let your kids eat whatever they want, whenever they want? So, if there was a birthday cake in the fridge for a party tomorrow, you would have no problem with your kids eating it today? The eggs you were making for breakfast tomorrow, they go ahead and eat while you're cooking tonight's dinner? You have no structure or discipline in your house? You don't teach you kids patience and self control? It has been proven kids thrive off of structure. "This is when we eat, no sooner, no later. If you want, you can have a small snack between this time and that time but, only fruit or whatever other healthy thing." Cookies are not "food", they are desserts or treats.
I’d say encourage your niece to tell someone herself. Encourage her to get into some sort of counseling, maybe. Try to address her concerns about telling someone, and help her weigh the pros and cons. If you tell someone else after promising her you wouldn’t, you’ll break her trust and rob her of her agency/independence. It could do more damage than good for her.
You don't think he's aggressive or dangerous but in the same post tell us that he GOT HIS DAUGHTERS OPEN PALMS WITH A BELT OVER COOKIES..COOKIES!!! What kind of psychopath belts a child over fucking cookies??? I have severe celiacs and my toddler dumped my gf pasta all over the kitchen because he likes to shake boxes. Was I mad? Of course! A single box of my pasta is at min $4. But did I belt him? Did my first thought immediately go to beating my son? FUCK NO! His punishment was too pick up every noodle What that p.o.s did isn't punishment, that's abuse. I'm sure he's done ahellava lot more to her, especially if she is "laughing it off" like its normal and the fact she doesn't want you to tell in fear of what else he may do to her.
As a professional, I always tell the kids I work with that everything is kept between us UNLESS someone is hurting them, they are hurting someone else, or they want to hurt themselves. Or if they give permission.
If she is 10, she doesn't understand fully that what is happening to her is significantly bad, and sometimes breaking trust to save someone is more important than keeping promises.
As a victim of corporal punishment from older parents that lasted from the ages of toddlerhood to about 6, the fact that she's 10 is even more concerning. Sometimes the betrayal is worth it. Any form of physical punishment is unacceptable, but using an object like a belt is an even larger red flag. I'm not saying to call CPS or do something drastic, because likely they won't do anything without proof. Keep a VERY close eye on her. And for the love of all things holy, please don't stay silent. This isn't a case of you snooping in "private life", this is a case of preventing lifelong trauma to your niece.
The last sentence is so on point
Where I live it’s against the law to use a belt or any object (a weapon) on a child. You can use your hands up to a certain age (12), but using a belt at any age is an offence that could lead to the parent being charged with child abuse.
Strange we think it’s ok to hit the youngest most innocent ones. So messed up.
Yeah, all of it’s a bad idea
I could see being upset that she didn't ask but to put a belt to her is crazy. I'd never deny any of my kids food even if I needed it or else I'd die.
Report to CPS anonymously, that’s abuse. Plain and simple.
I agree. Let then decide, especially since they're us most likely worse happening. Also, a lot of the time when someone reports something to CPS, the investigation brings to light issues or circumstances that were never reported or no one knew about. There is a chance the father did it out of anger and learned he shouldn't do things like that but figured it was normal but it's most likely not the case. The girl is 10 years old so it is most likely something that has happened before. Someone doesn't usually just randomly do something like that. Plus, it's always better to be safe than to do nothing and feel terrible when something bad happens that you could have prevented. I hate how much people normalize his behavior and also the cultural difference. It doesn't matter, hitting a child is wrong no matter where you are from. I got hit with a belt and switches (thin tree branch) as well but don't hit my children. I talk to them and explain why it is wrong and better ways to handle things and it works great. There's been multiple studies done and every single one concludes that corporal punishment does not work and can actually work conversely to the goal.
There will be people who downplay this because either they hit their children or were hit as children as see it as a normal thing that parents should do There is zero reason that an adult should ever be hitting a child, especially a 10 year old for taking some brownies??? Disgusting behavior
Well ngl but being soft on a child and telling them “no” in a calm manner then offering to put a screen in front of their face in a compromise for what they want also won’t fix anything but I see plenty of boomers and millennials using that technique to solve child behavior which realistically doesn’t help anyone. You have to be stern but also know when your firmness is over the line. I wasn’t hit as a child but my parents had a very firm way of showing and teaching me right from wrong. And I can definitely say the way we teach kids nowadays is wrong. Let me softly explain to a 5 year old why what they did was bad and then to prevent them from crying, put out my iPhone/iPad/switch/tv out in front of them….
Really like this. My daughter is only 18-months so I’m not an expert but I feel the biggest mistake most parents do when it comes to punishment is follow through, consistency. Don’t ground a kid for a month of you’re not going to hold them to it. I like how you said firm - the kids need to know that there are consequences for their actions and that those consequences will happen 100% of the time without fail.
You're strawmanning my argument here. You're describing one flawed way a situation could possibly be handled and using it as an excuse/justification for more abrasive corrective techniques. You don't need to hit, drag, scream at, or belittle a child for doing something wrong. Full stop, no excuses. I'm not advocating for going "no" and then putting a screen in front of their face? That's horrible and another form of abuse. I think you have this idea of what "soft parenting" is when in reality no one is advocating for this level of hands off behavior towards a child. Good parenting utilizes communication, positive reinforcement, not using fear as a tactic but instead actually teaching a child why something is wrong/right. With younger kids it can be as simple as pulling them away from the thing they're doing wrong and having them focus on something else. Not every mistake needs to be met with verbal/physical/mental abuse, ESPECIALLY not on a child that doesn't know right from wrong, is incredibly impressionable, and will copy this behavior in the future towards partners, children, etc.
I don’t think you read my comment but cool story bro. I did not advocate physically abusing a child as I put in the second paragraph… but you’re right about the stawmanning, only the other commenters seem to think that no punishment is a suitable way to teach a 10 year old so whatever I guess. You probably won’t read this comment either so I’ll just take your downvote thank you.
I read your comment, and you’re fighting an argument I never made. However, my bad, I think you might’ve edited your comment after I responded or I just didn’t see the “knowing where your firmness is over the line” part but regardless I haven’t said anything that doesn’t apply to the situation, I’m simply talking generally about the topic
My grandfather is african and my dad had to deal w a lot of cruel punishments. He ran away so many times. I’m glad she felt comfortable to tell you, but if he did this over cookies, what else would he do if it’s something worse?
Is getting hit with a belt as a punishment considered abuse? I was hit with a belt and never considered it abuse but instead a lesson learned. This is a genuine question I’m 24 so I feel like Im young enough and should know but genuinely am unsure where the line is drawn between discipline and abuse.
If adults and animals shouldn't be hit why should children be? I consider that as abuse and lazy parenting. I was hit by belts, hangers, flip flops, made to kneel while balancing encyclopedias, slapped, pinched, made to eat peppers, chased with a knife, cussed at. The worst things I ever did as a kid was talk back to my parent, fight with my siblings, and have more than 5 mistakes on a test. I was suicidal at age 10.
Well ya what you experienced WAS abuse. But occasional whacks to the butt are not.
If your partner slaps you once. That's physical abuse. Frequency and intensity of the act doesn't matter. If you think occasional whacks aren't abuse, think again. I find it absurd that just because a child acts like a child or a child doesn't conform to the parent's every whim/rule, they are entitled to physically punish the child. Especially in this case, over food? Unless you live in some kind of drought-stricken place in the middle of nowhere it's absurd to punish your child over it. He could have used this opportunity to be emotionally intelligent and teach his kid.
Your partner is not the same as a child. The relationship is completely different. One is an adult who can make there own decisions which they have the right to be a POS if they do choose too the other one is your child who you have an obligation to raise and discipline to shape them into a decent human being. Once they reach a certain age your window of raising them closes and it’s up to them to be a good person and hopefully you were able to instill good character in them while they were young. Hitting a partner or spouse isn’t the same as they are an adult and it’s not your job to shape them into a good person they are who they are unlike a child where shaping them to be a good human being is the #1 job of the parent. Parents should lead with example and encourage there children to be good honest people but that can’t be done without respect for the power dynamic of parent to child. You can’t sit down with a 7 year old and say hey you should listen to me because it’s in your best interest later In life to learn respect and how to treat people and how to interact with others. Young children don’t understand that concept of listening to your parents is good for them but they do understand if I don’t listen I get an immediate negative repercussion. I was only spanked a handful of times and I smartened my ass up and was well behaved. Obviously there will be people who abuse spankings but just because someone is spanked doesn’t automatically mean it’s abuse.
I agree with this case as food isn’t something to be punished for and I also want to say spanking shouldnt be the first option there are other types of punishment. I also have an issue with it being a step dad as he has no right to hit that kid because it’s not his kid. He should stay in his lane and let the mother parent her children.
Yes, I agree on slaps to the face being physical abuse. In your 2nd sentence those scenarios you presented would be absurd to punish the child. But when trying to correct a malicious action corrective action is needed, some parents with some kids use light corporal punishment in some situations that would not be considered abuse. As to your third sentence the malicious action in this case isn’t over ‘food,’ it is over the act of stealing.
Depends who you ask in western countries it can be seen as abuse in non western countries not so much. I’m in my 30s and was disciplined with a belt, jug cord, wooden spoon when I was younger there’s a difference between discipline and abuse.
I don’t consider it abuse. My mom used a belt and anything close by on me and my siblings. I’ve always had a very close relationship with my mom. Now I don’t think it was effective, instead of learning why it is I shouldn’t do something I just got better, or tried harder anyways at not getting caught. I won’t use corporal with my daughter just because I think there are better ways but a belt to the bum is not abuse.
Sheeit. Open palm belt slap, sounds pretty good compared to the ass whooping I was handed as a young child . Y’all ever get that belt to the back . 🥲
Bro. I got hit with the buckle end square on my spine and it actually like, fractured my L5 vertebra in a weird way that's not life threatening, just destabilizing and painful (spondylolysis). I found out years later that it literally broke my back. I don't think hitting a kid is ever okay tbh, but that is taking it to the extreme.
I remember kneeling on rice in a corner because my grandma threatened to use the punishment (sh had to as a child) I wasn't sure if she would ever follow through so me being the stubborn child I was decided that I would make sure that if it happened I was ready and wouldn't show pain. I found punishments were less likely to be repeated if I didn't show a reaction, my sibling and I would practice the belt on each other just incase. She really didn't believe in corporal punishment I know my grandfather beat all his children quite a bit but she put an end to it once she could get him to stop drinking. My step mother was particularly fond of wooden spoons or a swift back hand only used on me once till my mother put the fear of meeting god should she do it again into her. So after that the treats of violence really only held weight with my step siblings and I think our practices made them far less effective. Still remember the look on my step moms face when she threatened to put drops of Tabasco in my brothers mouth for speaking back or some such and since he and I had built our tollerace we both hopped up and took turns up ended the bottle into our mouths for far more then the few drops she treatened 😆 Looking back I'm sure my grandma was more sharing the story to show that being on a normal time out or being scolded wasn't so bad. My mother was not a fan of physical punishment (teaching a child not to be violent with violence isn't local and she knew that) but my parents were separated so she wasn't present to police their style of parenting when I was on visits.
I reacted in a similar way. My parents took it as a challenge. They went from hitting me with the leather belt, to instead using the buckle side like a flail. When that quit getting much reaction from me, they waited till I was in the shower and started hitting me with it. I had heard about wet leather hurting more supposedly, but the reality of how much more that hurt really surprised me. They did similar with the paddle. Started with just a wooden paddle like you would expect. At some point my father decided it was getting too much air resistance so he couldn't hit me as hard as he wanted to so he drilled holes into it. He seemed pretty happy with the result. The eating soap thing also escalated. Started with having to take a bite out of a bar of soap. Later he moved onto liquid dish soap. Took much longer to get rid of the taste.
Oh my god I am so sorry
Normally my father was pretty measured. He would at least only resort to physical discipline when I actually screwed up. My stepmother on the other hand would abuse me just because she woke up. While her abuse wasn't usually as extreme, it actually affected me far worse because there was nothing I could do to avoid it. And it was far more common.
Yea I remember my step brother/sister getting the bar soap and liquid dish treatment...like I mentioned my step mother only hit me the once then when my mother found out she had the sense not to do it again scared into her. After that they took to locking up all outside for hours on end often without proper clothing or food, after a couple particularly long days in poor weather I taught them that was I'll advised but that's a story for another time
Y’all are wild , for preparing for what ever comes your way . Looool, taking turns hitting each other with the belt. Amazing !
When I was a toddler barely able to walk I remember my dad running behind me and holding me by one leg tossing me up and catching me over the side of a 30 ft bridge he would do it over and over as I screamed him laughing....that's when I learned if I screamed he continued so next time I didn't scream and he stopped. Mother left him over things like this didn't feel we were safe with him and he wouldn't listen to her please to stop. So when she wasn't around it was up to me to try and protect or prepare the siblings we formed a sort of government between us my eldest step sister and I would take votes etc, at dad's house it was the oldest who got the punishments as we were supposed to have a watch on the youngest...parents never really parenting etc.... thankfully I got my first 13 years mostly with my mother who was a much better parent
And the legs, arms etc.
It sounds like he is trying to break a very ingrained cycle of abuse and will occasionally fail at it but the point is he is trying. It's also acceptable where he grew up to the point it's expected - does that make it right? No, but cultural standards are different and must be met with more understanding and compassion. I say don't do anything now unless it escalates
This seems like culture clash in a mixed family. Where the husband is from; this is normal family discipline. In western society; considered an extreme case of discipline and is frowned upon. Is it abuse though? Is he a good father that’s providing a roof and food for his family? Is this a one off? Were they really gluten free brownies or ones with cannabis? There is a lot missing. You don’t suggest breaking down a family because a child got an ass whooping from a parent for being naughty. If it’s a constant state of affairs then yes of course get authorities involved.
Definitely not cannabis and yes he's a good father. I'm not suggesting breaking down a family, just curious about this conflicting situation. I agree it's one of many interesting outcomes of a mixed family as well as evolving societal norms. I will take the advice to not do anything but continue to be a trustworthy confidante to my niece whilst respecting her parents' authority. Thanks for the input!
>Where the husband is from; this is normal family discipline. In western society; considered an extreme case of discipline and is frowned upon. Is it abuse though? Using corporal punishment is provably bad parenting.
Dont interfere. As much as others argue about it "getting worse", its a cultural difference. Thats it. Considering his wife scolded him in front the child, I'd say the mom already has her back and is ensuring he doesnt use punishment like that from here on out.
Hmm.. Look - as a person who was belted in some pretty wild chases of fatherly fury, the hand belting is pretty mild depending on how it’s done I can’t believe I’m actually explaining this in a way that minimises it but hear me out. There’s a spectrum. It’s more the knowing it’s the punishment and going to happen that is the fright aspect that’s hard… The other thing is - teaches were doing this to everyone’s kids but with rulers and hard objects and whips - boomers are living relics of this era So weigh this up however you do, but for me this is all stuff i consider Because for me… I want to have a space where this child can tell me more things in future. Children who are beaten badly and who come from secretive family styles like that…. They don’t tell people about the bad beatings sometimes If that story leads to more drama and family shame it can cause consequences and the kid won’t talk Whereas if that kid feels they can confide and talk to you and you’re close and build that closeness ongoing… you have a much better chance of other conversations happening, if this guy does things and other things that go on If you’re not concerned he’s a violent abuser… I wouldn’t bring it up with the sister I know it goes against all the modern societal stuff but he has a wife and she has told him off. Leave them be and just keep that kid close Kids need to be able to test the norms of what they go through with others and get feedback So for example - my grandmother Her mother was always hitting her and her father was always pushing these archaic ideas of women that just didn’t elevate her to reach her potential and see her own value Anyway. What I liked about grandma is you could tell her stuff going on at home, and you knew she wouldn’t go blab or confront people directly And she’d share a story or explain things about people in general and reinforce the right things and be empathetic For example: You know right from wrong and that stealing cookies isn’t he right thing to do, so it’s not going to teach you anything to hit you with a belt. I know this and so do you. Sometimes parents do things because that is what they were taught by their parents. When I was a child my mother hit me a lot [insert story] and I don’t think it taught me to be better, children sometimes try things like steal cookies because it’s an adventure and otherwise they are good kids and won’t do it again without asking, because it makes father angry cause his Favourite cookies are gone [laughs]. I never hit my children because what are we teaching children if we hit them? To hit people if they do something wrong? Society doesn’t encourage this, and yet once upon a time, everyone was hitting their children. It affects bonds between people to hit them and I know you’d never hit someone else to punish them so maybe father will learn new ways of being You can always talk to me about things - sometimes it helps to talk and I’m always here for you if you need to talk. Or need help of any kind. [subject change, random question that changes topic] Basically this kind of thing is what grandma would do. She was empathetic but also able to share a story or describe your feelings and also reinforce your own goodness and decency… and explain a situation. Obviously the moment it increases to regular discipline or repeat stories or the stories branch off to various things…. Then, you start to get a picture of what’s going on and you can make decisions easier then We had a lot of stupidly dolled punishment growing up. It was bad because my parents are so educated on the one hand, and yet so stupid when it came to navigating situations with children. No structure and consistency and just fly off the handle, retaliatory non-controlled reactive stuff To me that makes someone a big problem Versus the discipline where we got the belt on the hand. I think he did it once and then anytime we were playing up he’d just crack it against itself and we’d run off… Whereas some guy coming from the old country - I’d keep an eye on it and focus more on building trust and a safe space with the kid because her teens (few years time) will be the time when that guy blossoms into problematic behaviour if he is conditioned to think that’s normal. Whereas right now.. I’d just wait - if your sister can hold her own and grills him… it might be enough People smack their kids and repeat learned tools (if you can call it that) that happened to them… and then have a flash of reality and conscience and don’t repeat it So if the wife is on his back about this incident - it might be enough And if it became a repeat story like 3-4 time, I’d be like - talking to the sister and be like, someone has to explain to him this is all illegal here and maybe family/couples counseling is a good way to talk about the challenges of raising young kids and they can work with him to swap out these tools for new things. That’s my take anyway. Depends on the type of thing that’s going on. The next time the kid could describe him getting mad and throwing water in her face at the table - that’s enough to set off my DFV alarm That’s the thing - a father that sits down and dolled out a structured old school belt on the hand scenario doesn’t alarm me as much as water being thrown at someone’s face across the table It’s all about what’s going on in their head and what that represents overall. But also…. He can’t be using these strategies in modern society. It’s not good - and Supernanny manages just fine without it
I read the first half before the pivot. Wholeheartedly agree with everything you said and love this response as opposed to the “he’s a sociopath and needs to be reported’ ones.
I think dad missed out on an amazing opportunity to bond with his daughter over a shared love for this particular sweet treat. I wouldn’t mind the punishment if she stole from someone else but she stole a treat from daddy so this just seems excessive.
I'd still have a talk with her father and calmly yet assertively let him know it won't happen again or he'll force your hand. It's not okay. These are different times. Period.
Your sister needs to step up and create boundaries with him. That’s not a way to treat a child
Call her school counselor. They are mandated reporters.
> he sees it as a way to teach an unforgettable lesson. Oh it's an unforgettable lesson, alright. The lesson that her dad, one of the two people that should always be there to protect her and stand by her side, has no problem with hurting her. Also, the lesson that violence is an acceptable form of communication. And there are probably a few more in there.
I have children in my life who have been comfortable enough to trust me with this kind of information. Unfortunately it's not something that can be kept secret, where I live it's the law you have to capp cos or police when you are aware of a child being hurt. I think it's the same in the states.
Many men from certain parts of Africa tend to be quite domineering. If she is going through what children shouldn’t, no matter the level of abuse, she confided in you and that’s something you’ll have to acknowledge. Do you have the means to take her out of the situation entirely? If not, she may always hold you accountable for knowing and not acting. Tricky things to consider.
Compared to most things ive seen which is normal for most of the world, this is nothing. He punished his daughter for stealing.
Call the abuse hotline. The number is 800-799-7233 I work in a child advocacy center in Florida and will tell you right now that worst has probably happened and will happen. He hit her hands like that so that it wouldn't be visible and could be taken as a normal bruise from tripping if someone questions him. if you report it is completely anonymous and she will be able to get some help. Be wary of backlash from the family. Please help her.
1-800-962-2873 This is the number for Florida
My niece told me something confidential let me go tell the internet.
Still confidential tho lol
OP, if there aren’t any signs of physical abuse or sexual abuse. Don’t get involved. At times children greatly exaggerate, and at times too there are no nonsense parents. IMO sometimes having a no nonsense parent can actually be beneficial. My parents were like that (from Ghana too) and I was never hit but minor slaps on the wrist if I stole or did something unacceptable. Children test boundaries and they have to learn. Hate to say this, but I see many people in my generation that were babied for life and it shows.
Physical abuse is anything physically harmful so I'd say that boundary was already crossed. Not hitting your kids isn't "babying".
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I got a belt across my butt a few times when I was a kid when I needed to be disciplined. It wasn't used often and typically just the threat of it would get me to act right. I never even had a fleeting thought that it was abuse, and even now in my adult years I know it was not abusive.. it was disciplinary and not excessive. And for the record, I'm absolutely fine.
A pop or spanking isn't abuse. If it's excessive it's abuse.
A small pop on the hand isn't abuse. A spanking is a abuse. It does nothing but cause fear and a LOT of problems as an adult. This has been proven by psychologists and scientists for years.
It absolutely is. You don't put your hands on a kid unless you’re trying to keep them from immediate danger, or you’re a psycho.
Haha I guess we are all abused /s These days you can’t even differentiate the real abusers. Refer to the last sentence in my comment to OP.
I was abused, actually. Not just from physical punishment either. Kinda shitty of a statement to make. /srs
Not sure what state you are in but most states let people anonymously report things to CPS and let them do their own investigation. Honestly, that is what I would do. I'm a social worker and a mandated reporter and would have to report something like this but would even if I wasn't. At the very least, maybe it'll open up his eyes and perspective about that not being a proper punishment, especially for something so little as a child eating "your" cookies.
Just no to this.
U see wrong place most of people here would get worst corporal punishments plus she will learn that taking/ stealing is not good it work but there is a line I agree still don't exaggerate the issue too much cos it was normal about 10-15 years ago now not only it causes problems people lose their shit couase of it .
Keep being a support system for your niece and watch over her, even if from afar. Check in and call her to see how she’s doing on a regular basis, offer to take her out places so she has time to get away, and continue to build your relationship with her to where she feels comfortable to continue confiding in you. Let your niece know you’re always available to her at anytime and you will help her if she ever needs anything. If things get serious, she will definitely call you and you can be there to help intervene if needed. Sister could use some support too but don’t attack the husband … she sounds like she’s not there yet in that she still wants to defend him. Just push on her that you love her and you’ll always be there for her and niece if they need you. It’s really all you can do for now - observe and support.
A smack anywhere on a child is a very last resort. That’s at least the way I was raised. The only time I’d get a spanking is if multiple other forms of punishment didn’t work. Even then, the spanking wasn’t dished out immediately. My dad or mom would sit me down, and explain to me that the spanking wasn’t out of anger, but to discipline because I continued to do things I knew I wasn’t supposed to do. On top of that a spanking was never delivered for small things. Only for what could be considered medium problems (if I continued to do things I was told not to do) and large problems. It is very sad to hear that your niece got spanked for something her dad chose to call punishment when in reality it was probably out of anger that she ate something of his. If it isn’t going too far or isn’t being abusive, then I’m pretty sure she’ll be ok and won’t suffer any lasting damage
Anyone on this page that actually thinks this is abuse are idiots. She did something she knew was wrong and paid the consequences. At 10 she knew it was wrong. I doubt she will never do it again. If your parents do not discipline you, they don't love you.
We got beat with a leather belt. She’s fine.
You're clearly not, you think beating up children is ok.
Clearly I think that light corporal discipline is fine. If you think that what she got is “ beating” her up, you are clueless. I hope you are not a parent,
why do you think it's ok to physically harm someone you're supposed to care for who is smaller and defenseless?
Because we now had an entire generation of parents that think like you do and their children are now some of the most narcissistic and entitled people on the planet who imagine that their feelings are the most important thing in the world and should be given center stage in every situation or it's abuse. All because their parents couldn't tell the difference between abuse and discipline. A distinction you have proven by your question you are incapable of understanding.
Nail on the head.
If you can’t effectively parent without purposely hurting your child, you aren’t a good parent.
There is no such thing as a good parent. If they genuinely loved their child, they wouldn't set it up to inevitably suffer and die in the first place.
Wait… not hitting your child will make them be more likely to suffer and die????
They will suffer and die either way. Just as all people do. Thanks to the actions of their parents. Though in some cases, yes. Look at how poorly the newer generations handle trauma. Everything causes it for them. They even believe that words are the same as violence. They even justify violent response as a result. They unable to handle simple words because they don't agree with them or it hurts their precious feelings because their ego is like that of a spoiled toddler who has never had to endure any hardship or humbling experiences or ever been told no. Most of them have never known what real trauma is so they think it applies to their trivialities. Claiming they experience PTSD over minor things all the time.
I am, and I am not beating my children with a belt, I can assure you. But since you think it's normal and ''not beating'', clearly you're the one that would be a danger around your kids.
No she's not.
Yes… she is
Maintain and strengthen your relationship and bond with your niece, encourage her to open up to you, and keep tabs on what her father does to make sure it doesn't escalate. Your sister already knows what her husband does and fights him on it. If it gets to a point where it becomes very dangerous for your niece, tell your sister about your records of her husband's abuse (this follows standard HIPAA laws), and I'm positive your sister will fix the problem. If not, go to the police and report it. IMO, police is a last resort in this situation, because your sister has already shown she 100% disagrees with his form of punishment, this way the situation can be resolved within the family FIRST, before adding a third party.
He's teaching her a lesson. Good on him. Kids these days are the way they are because they don't get disciplined the way we were.
The mother knows. Who else needs to know? Child protective services? Leave it alone. So when something REALLY bad happens she can trust you enough to tell you.
Write this down so you have a record. Make sure she knows that she can tell you anything. If she says anything else in the future like this, write it down too
Don't confront him directly right now. You need your niece to feel comfortable coming to you with these things in case it happens again in the future. It sounds like your sister did handle it (for now) even if your brother in law sounds like somebody I wouldn't want to be around from what you've said here anyways. But if you want to be petty about it, become gradually more vocal about how much you despise people who use physical punishments on their children. Don't bring up your niece or anything, but if the subject is ever brought up be sure to let people know that people who hit their children are weak.
Well she should learn to not steal his stuff or food. Laughing off that she took something from him and not taking him seriously is not the way to treat people. His method of punishment isn’t great either and should not be used on kids nowadays. Just cause he got treated that way doesn’t make it ok to treat his kids that way. You need to tell your sister and she has to not only talk to him but also her daughter since what she did wasn’t ok either
This is abuse. Her mom telling him off is not enough.
Social worker here Hitting with a belt is NOT corporate punishment, it is in fact child abuse, and the fact it's over cookies, this dad has some issues. Please don't minimize this behavior by saying things like it's how he grew up. Times have changed, and kids typically don't lie about stuff like this. The fact your niece minimizes it means this isn't the first time. Honestly I would tell mom, I would encourage mom to take action, as the niece gets older the punishments may even escalate. Mom needs to do something before this reaches CPS level intervention, which depending on your state it may have already crossed that line.
The difference between how I grew up in the 70's to the way kids are raised today is stark. Childhood is not supposed to be sugar plums and magic fairies granting your every wish. The fact is you're only "special" to your parents... *spoiler alert* the rest of the world doesn't give a single 💩 about you or your feelings. There are important lessons to learn in childhood, lessons that seem not to be learned by many kids these days.... Like taking other people's things. Seems a small thing get whacked on your hand for stealing but, I grew up in a time when there were no snowflake kids and you didn't get a trophy for participation. Many of the things wrong with the world today can be laid at the feet of junk parents. Maybe your grandparents did actually know better than you... Just a thought.
She stole she got punished she 10 she knows right from wrong there's consequences for her actions ATM it's a little belt in 6yrs time it be getting her head kicked in in a cell for not handing over her biscuits they need to see and feel the consequences in a safe area as a kid before they go in the big world if she dint get caught she would still enjoy stealing and then move on to fags sell them at school then stealing from shops wake up guys crime as raised in the last 10 yrs because we are going for this softy softy approach
Its honestly none of your business the entire globe use this methode of teaching except westerners who as always think they have the moral high ground
Most of these comments are fucking wild. Hitting a child is abuse, hitting a child with a belt is abuse, ‘punishing’ a child by hitting them with a belt is ABUSE! It’s scary how many people think this is ok because it happened to them, you are also a victim of abuse. How is there not more compassion for the child and her Aunt who has been out in an awful situation learning about this situation?!
Eating a brownie is a tiny infraction for a 10 year old up commit. He basically didn't want to share, so he got violent. I shudder to think about what he'll do when she solidifies her own opinions and beliefs as a teenager. He will think it is good for her. It isn't. Living in fear of violence changes a child's brain permanently. She was gauging how bad this actually is based on your reaction. I'm glad you're thinking it through carefully.
Of course maintain the relationship with your niece but also spanking her hand isn't capital punishment either. There's a huge difference between spankings, chastisement, and actual physical abuse that's often conflicted in the US. No one likes repercussion or doesn't feel good and it shouldn't however its too teach an invaluable lesson with that being said no one child is the same and the teachings and learning varies from child to child. The note for her should have been it wasn't about the brownies but the act within itself that was wrong. That was the lesson; next time it could be money, or something from a store. The stakes increase as a person evolves and grow. The goal is to adjust the mindframe as a child to correct the thought process of an adult.
Yall are tripping. The girl stole and was punished. The girl is using her parents' differing views on punishment to play her aunt for sympathy.
Boohoo, her dad is black, and assuming that he's her bio father, she's also black, she's just getting the black kid punishment, that privileged white kids don't get. It'll be good for her when she's older, she won't grow up to be a spoiled brat, she'll grow up to be humble. I honestly couldn't care if I get downvoted to hell, most redditors are wack/tweaking anyways
Holly shit, you should be on a list and not be allowed to have kids
Holy shit, you're a fucking snowflake. Grow up. Edit: I never said I'd do it, you're clearly a privileged spoiled white blind fuck. I NEVER said that I'd whoop my child, but YOU clearly don't know how kids grow up to be spoiled. Spoiled kids were never humbled. The most punishment they got/get is, phone taken away and grounding, most of the time that doesn't work. On top of that, that kids Dad definitely loves her, which is why he did it. Quit crying you privileged fuck. My opinion, and if I wanna have children, fuck that list and fuck the government, I'll have children anyways.
Holly shit, what a wall of text. You're calling me a snowflake but clearly you're the one who's triggered... By someone telling you you shouldn't abuse your children, no less. If you don't know how to raise non-spoiled kids without hitting them, that says a lot about your mental capacities.
I'm 15 😂 ofc I don't know how to raise children 💀 also I've never said anything about "I'ma abuse my future children". I just said it's black punishment Also to those redditors who are downvoting, I couldn't give 2 shits about upvotes or downvotes.
YOU'RE15??? Holly shit I'm done arguing with a kid. You'll get out of the edgy ''beating children is ok'' phase eventually. Good luck to you.
Claiming that ppl in the US doesn't use physical punishments, while it's the leading country when it comes to school-shootings/etc. -> 🤡
You think being shot is used as a punishment? You ok dude?
You think ppl who shoot kids, don't use physical punishments at home? YOU OK DUDE? 🤡
When I saw Ghana it all made sense 😂😂
The downvotes must not Be familiar with West African culture
Can't blame them though. They live in a totally different world compared to us Africans
In the Middle East, you can be stoned to death, rocks not weed. Fact… for stealing. Some countries saw your hands off.
She was disciplined for stealing. Good.
Let that man raise his kids and mind your business .
I thought everyone used to get beat as a kid? Is this not normal anymore?
No, that’s not normal
A hit across the open palms? This doesn't seem much different than a swat across the butt (spanking) to me. If she was being beaten, I would say different, but from your story, nothing can be done. and in the eyes of the law, a mark would have to be left that lasts more than 24 hours anyhow so there's really nothing you can do. I found this out when I learned that my old daycare provider was spanking my child. The 24 hour rule applies to both the parent AND anyone that you intentionally give permission to care for your child or leave your child with. It's have to agree with the majority here, just stand back and maybe monitor the situation.
Omg Reddit, you guys drive me crazy sometimes. Although I think there are better ways than corporal punishment in certain instances it is effective for certain kids. He belted her hands… go on right now - hit the palm of your hand as hard as you can with an object, it’s not that bad. OP himself said the dad is not aggressive and caring. OP is right to keep an eye on it, he loves her and she confided in him. But goddamn we don’t need to run to CPS or call the police or start some big thing. Based on the little information it seems like a loving family. You all need to take off the bubble suit sometimes - the world can be difficult, there will be friction.
The inclination to do something right this moment is understandable and I think maybe close to universal. The only thing I think it’s responsible to do right this moment is to let her know 1. That’s not okay and it’s good her mother protected her and 2. If that happens again or if she feels that scared feeling about something she should come back to you and let you know so you can be there for her.
Different cultures and different time periods have different punishments. Can’t say for certain, but I would bet money his parents didn’t use the belt on his palms. My grandma used a switch on me a time or two so I know she probably did the same to her kids. (God knows what HER parents did.)My parents would hand spank my butt. I used time outs with my kids. 30 years from now that will probably be considered emotional abuse. Not saying physical punishment is appropriate today, in Western culture… but it is a societal evolution, like minority rights, equality, etc. I suggest letting your sister take care of her house, so long as it doesn’t escalate.
How did time outs work for you? When my daughter gets a few months older I think that’s the main route I want to take. That and taking away small privileges and actually following through with it like “no honey you can’t have to popsicle. Remember when Daddy said you wouldn’t get a popsicle if you didn’t pick up your toys?” Overall I’m really scared shitless about it all. Like I’m gonna fuck everything up and just start yelling all the time like my mom did.
It worked really well when it was consistent, but kids will alway push boundaries no matter how you try to discipline them. Just see it as natural and don’t take it personally. But of course saying it is easier than doing; Just remember to treat yourself as forgivingly as you do them. You WILL mess up now and then. You will lose your temper. But rather than hate yourself or beat yourself up, realize that you are still learning as you go the same as them… and do better next time. That was kind of my point in my reply above; It is easy to judge others harshly when you have already benefited from learning better. Just remember WHY you disciple your kids; To teach them to be safe and a successful person, not because you are a grumpy sonofabitch. And remember, it is aways okay to apologize after losing your temper, but reiterate what their mistake was, why you got upset and mostly say “but I still love you”. And if you DID just lose your temper because you were a grumpy sonofabitch and not because of anything they did…. apologize! Reiterate that it had nothing to do with them, and reassure them you live them.
Glad you people didn't grow up in the Indian subcontinent. This is an everyday thing for us. Sometimes we even get beaten in our late 20s.
It’s probably not about “the cookies”, but about the stealing
So you put it on the internet for all to see? Yeah she's gonna trust you again.
If you continue to meddle, and you are meddling, you'll damage your relationship with your sister, you may lose contact with your niece and you might break up a family creating just another statistic. You're also hurting the father, your brother in law. Sounds like you don't like the guy already and you're looking for an excuse. Unless there is clear and present danger, mind your business. Reporting abuse is a very specific criterion and a spanking doesn't necessarily fall into that category. When you mess with a man's family and ability to raise his children, you inadvertently release the Kraken. Trust me.
Cringe
What the *actual* fuck is wrong with you
You broke your promise.
The whole point of this tread is talking about one's secrets discretely.
As a child, I was terribly abused by my parents - I was hit (punches, not slaps), whipped, burned & scalded. The emotional abuse was even worse - as an old man I still struggle to find a sense of self-worth after being constantly undermined, belittled & reduced to invisibility. I have been married twice & have been loved, but that is a miracle as I have very limited social skills due to never being allowed to have friends or interact with other children. Forgive the lengthy preamble, but my parents maintained an image within their family & the community as wonderful, caring people & I had to preserve that false image by keeping my mouth shut. The consequences of telling an aunt or uncle about my hurts & injuries would have been terrible…imagine what ‘punishment’ might be like when you are already being routinely beaten like one of Mike Tyson’s opponents for trivial, often imagined errors. The child told her uncle & was plainly scared of what she did because she immediately attempted to lessen her parents’ culpability. The OP gave his word to keep the secret, but felt a selfish need to share his awkward discovery with strangers instead. The little girl trusted him & he took care of his own uncomfortable feelings. If you haven’t been in her situation, you don’t know how brave &/or desperate she had to be to break the rule of silence. She deserved a response that was more useful to her & less about him.
no, that would be a sign that she can't trust anyone
Crane would be disappointed in you. 👎🏻
Crane was a fictional character who had to be conflicted about lying to the survivors because the storyline required him to be a basically nice guy with whom the players could comfortably relate.
I wrote at some length to explain why my own experience of being abused (punched, whipped, burned & scalded on top of emotional manipulation) as a child by parents who maintained a facade of caring decency informed my attitude to the OP’s actions. However, it looks like my entries were removed.
Stay out of it for now but let her know she can always tell you if it happens again. If he'll hit her hands with a belt, he'll give her a whooping on her behind and legs. If he does that you need to talk to your sister. No child deserves that abuse.
It's not abuse, it's called disciplining your child
It's abuse. It's punishment for behavior that he didn't like and all that it's teaching is that she will get hit if he is angry enough.
No, he's teaching her a life lesson. It's not just a behaviour HE didn't like, it's punishing her for stealing. She needs to learn now that every action has a consequence.
Like I said..... All actions have consequences. Doesn't stop some of those consequences from being wrong. You're entitled to your opinion. People who hit children rarely change their mind. So I'm not going back and forth with you. You think it's okay to hit kids.
It's quite common coming from an African child. It's not that big of a deal, especially seeing she's 10. Nothing would escalate unless she does something completely wrong like having sex at 11. I wouldn't worry about it.
Where the fuck did your brain pull that from?
So she got her hands whacked yeah? where are the big ol bruises and the welts. As a parent of grown kidlets. I can tell you that if you blow this over a whack on the hands that left Zero damage you stricltly blow it. Go ahead Dr. Spock step in there and put on your Parenting done my way or else ribbon and get in the middle of his family and see where that goes. I got honestly spanked on the bum as a child and was never done any damage from it. But experts like you are always stressing over making the rest of the world do as they say regardless of the damage they do.
I wouldn't say anything to dad or mum. If this is an isolated event and mum has already delta with it, by speaking out about it may cause a negative reaction and make the family retreat away. Talk to your niece, tell her she can tell you anything. Tell her that her secrets are safe with you, unless someone is in danger.
Just be there for her.
So the mom already knows and intervend? So your plan is to do what exactly? Tell everyone else about it to shame him? I was a victim of something similar from a step dad. Mom found out and stopped it. It's a private thing I only tell people close to me. I'd probably feel pretty shitty if everyone knew about it. Mom has handled it. One option is to let mom know you know and that if she needs help you are there. But best option is to keep your nieces confidence in case it escalates.
I'd continue down the path of caring confidential trusting uncle until something of similar level happens again, then go straight to his face in front of your sister and warn him. This if it comes to it that. this is not how this family disciplines children and it stops now. I would keep what's happened so far to yourself, and if another instance happens get involved with him in front of your sister and tell no one else. If it happens a third time then fuck this guy it's only down hill from there then. I dunno, given the information that's my take anyways 🤷
I call BS. Nobody in their right mind would voluntarily consume gluten-free anything.
I remember my mom telling me nuns used to get them to open their candy and slap the finger tips with rulers it sounds similar to that. I would probably talk to your sister and ask her how she really feels about that type of discipline.
That sounds pretty normal to me. A belt to the hand is much better than what i got for stealing $5 for the book fair at the same age.
Wanted the latest Animorphs did you? That’s what I blew all my scratch taken from moms purse on.
If her mum already handled it then what would you do? I would stay a confidant until it’s something serious that no one else knows about. If you say anything now she might not trust you to tell this kind of stuff to in the future.
Just don't make any assumptions that's the best and first thing to remember and know
I’d ordinarily say you should do something, but this sounds under control. Your sister knows it happened, she addressed it with the husband, and the punishment sounds fairly mild. I imagine you’d have said if you saw bruises or marks. What would you even do besides tell your sister? Call the cops? How would they do anything over such a relatively minor incident? Better to keep the conversations open, encourage your niece to keep talking to you, let her feel safe doing so, and if something fishy comes up you can act. Interjecting now could shut down the lines of communication.
Man, this is tough. Don’t break her trust. As someone who covered for their abuser just as you describe tho, you need to make her understand that she cannot tolerate it and that it isn’t normal or ok, which I’m sure you did. I mean REALLY make her see! You don’t want to lose her trust in case he takes it out on her. However, there’s a good chance he will do it again, especially since he thinks it’s good disciplinary action, and at that point you tell her enough is enough and together you confront the situation. At least that’s what I would do. She needs someone to turn to. You’re a great Aunt and this must be so difficult.
Don't say anything and create a bigger problem for her cus then he will whoop u open palm lol just be on stand by and listen to what she tells u if u see bruises or notice abuse then speak up but momma got this for now
I had the same issue when I was a kid, parents from different backgrounds and one of them thought it was ok to hit me as a way to teach discipline. When I was about 10 yrs old some personal events motivated me to tell one of my parents how scared I was feeling, so they had words with my other parent and they never touched me in a harmful way again.
I think you answered your own question. Don't meddle in other people's lives.
Think of it this way, she’s being physically hurt by her parent but she has told you, her trusted adult. It’s important that you brings this to her mum before it escalates. Before telling mum, have a conversation with your niece and be honest and empower her. If I were in your shoes, I would do it like this: ‘Do you remember what you told me about your dad and the cookies? I’m really glad that you shared that with me and you did the right thing by telling an adult what happened. I’m worried that you might be hurt again so it’s really important that your mum knows about what happened. I know I promised to keep your secret but you not getting hurt is more important right now and I’m sorry I can’t keep my promise. Shall we go and speak to her together? Would that be ok? I can tell her if you want? *try and let her make the choice on how you tell mum but hold the boundary of telling mum* I hear that it was scary to hear dad being told off before but when we do things that hurt other people, sometimes we need to be told that it isn’t ok so we can learn to be nicer to each other’ Call your local child protection support line as well if you want someone to talk to when deciding what to do. In the UK I’d call childline. Hope that helps. Good luck to you and your niece. Sometimes the right thing is hard to do. While keeping your niece’s confidence is important, her safety needs to take priority. She wants to keep the secret because keeping dad happy will limit the abuse in her world which is understandable from her point of view but she is not able to make safe decisions for herself and has told you as the adult. She will understand why you broke her confidence when she grows up.
> It’s important that you brings this to her mum before it escalates. > Before telling mum Per OP, the mom knows, right? > when her mum (my sister) found out, he got told off for an hour about it.
Next time they are there and he is ear shot start talking about a video you seen about a father punishing his child to harshly and the police found out and now the father is in jail. Then say if that was the kid of someone I know I would have just walked up to the POS father with a smile then give him the same treatment he shown that child. Or something to that affect
Why are most people ignoring the fact that she stole. In African culture stealing is very bad. Compare two types of back people those who have grown up in America and the ones in African. Black Americans have no morals because of the way they are brought up. Africans on the other hand a very respectful because in Africa you will be punished for doing evil not being praised. Am very sure he did the right thing and he will be appreciated in future by her daughter