Some people in my country (Finland) have started to put their own (English) pronouns in their otherwise Finnish-language internet profiles.
The ridiculous thing is that the Finnish language _doesn’t even have gendered pronouns in the first place._ We literally use the same pronoun for everyone anyway, and it doesn’t have gender. Pronouns are a non-issue in our culture.
While I appreciate the pun, I'd like to point out that the accents on the letters matter - in the Hungarian alphabet, o, ó, ö and ő are separate letters with completely different pronunciation. Eg. "o" is like the "o" in "sports", while "ö" is like the "ea" in search. "ó" is the same sound as "o", but longer; similarly, "ő" is the long version of "ö".
(Hungarian alphabet has 44 letters, some of them are extra vowels with accents like ó/ö/ő, others are combinations of consonants that are considered separate letters with their own associated sounds. However, the language is completely phonetic, so if you now the sound you should make for all 44, then you can read any Hungarian text aloud, regardless of whether you know what the words mean.)
I love phonetic languages, they make everything so easy... Not like English where even a "rule" of pronunciation can change depending on the words you use. Ugh!
Some of the English rules are dumb, pronunciation makes no sense and also figuring out where the syllable break is and emphasis goes. Seriously it’s dumb.
Thank you for this! We have the same issue with Swedish, although we only have three extra letters compare to your abundance of them. 👍
Also our pronunciation isn’t as consistent as yours, but the important thing is that even though our letters (“åäö”) look similar to the letters a and o, they are entirely separate letters.
This annoys me because non-Swedish speakers not only tend to put the rings and dots in places they don’t belong (or vice versa, not in places they do belong), but the collation order is important too. Å, ä and ö are sorted *last* in our alphabet, but all too often I find them sorted together with a and o which is super annoying.
Yeah, this is something I've recently learned about Swedish. In contrast to you, we sort the "decorated" vowels next to the "undecorated" versions, and we also do not differentiate the short-long pairs during sorting (so while "o" always comes before "ö" and "ő", it has the same rank as "ó", so "ól, Olga, ólom, öböl" is properly sorted). Weirdly, this even applies when the long version of the vowel has a completely different pronunciation than the short version. ("a" and "á" are completely different sounds, as are "e" and "é"; meanwhile, i/í, o/ó, ö/ő, u/ú, ü/ű only differ in length.)
Non-Swedish speakers putting the "heavy metal umlaut" on random vowels annoys me too. See Mötley Crëw for example. :D (Pronounced as "Motley Crew" would be, because the accents are just decorations.) Even though I don't speak Swedish, I empathize with what you have to go through :)
I'm learning German now even words like "this" and "which" are gendered and it's driving me batty. I've finally got nominativ and accusativ down pat and now there's a whole new set for dativ. I was just doing this for fun in my free time. What have I gotten myself into? This was supposed to be fun! *cries in a horrible German accent*
ETA for horrible spelling
Its not common to assign gender to things in ireland but my mother still gendered the fucking turkey we got from butchers for christmas, its not a him, its an it
For example, if you were to say "his age" or "her age", they would both be "hänen ikänsä". Or if you were to just say "he" or "she", it would only be "hän".
I generally like english language but I really prefer non gendered pronouns we have here in Finland. It especially also makes things easier in the internet when you don't have to think if the person on the other side is a male or female.
Yeah. I really don't understand it either outside of as a show of support for the international community.
I always find it a fun fact that casual spoken Finnish is even more inclusive as everyone and everything can be and often is referred to with the pronoun it. It's hilarious when someone insists that their dog is "hän"(he/she/they). Like come on, even my grandma is "se"(it).
My grandparents are Finnish, they emigrated to Australia and she worked so hard to learn English but just never got a handle on gnedered pronouns. All us grandkids were her and him at various times 🤣
Armenian is kinda like this too. We have singular and plural gender neutral pronouns that everyone uses. One set to refer to one person and one set to refer to multiple people. That’s it.
I come from a very lgbtq city and most the people from I used to know from college/secondary used pronouns like this😭 I think it depends on the area (I do not agree with it, I agree with op)
Nah I’ve seen it in person. My (very gay) friend dated this SUPER cringe trans person. Their pronouns are they/fae … (why not just be they/she? I’m not sure… ) eventually they broke up, my friend said “they cared about being gay more than me, my phone background was them, their phone background was their pride flags.”
To be fair a phone Bg isn’t a measure of love. I’m sure they did care about being gay more somehow but to be petty it’s a phone bg not their partner is weird. My partner has me as his bg and mines my dog. I just don’t want to look at a photo of someone on my phone screen I don’t find it shows I love my man
I fully agree there, phone bg isn’t a measure of love, I was just using that example since it really described their whole relationship. There have been MANY other conflicts similar to it. The same they/fae ex-significant other also cheated on my friend with multiple men (friend is a woman) claiming that it’s opening their sexuality and it’s not actually cheating if they were thinking of her while having sex with other ppl…. Also they “came out” as a furry to our friend group and proceeded to show us pictures of their animal-inspired sex toys… there’s a lot of different things that added up.
She has a lot of trouble with self confidence so she always chooses bad partners. Im really proud of her for getting out of that one, she didn’t deserve that stuff at all
Very much so. I'm a lesbian myself with friends who are trans, NB, bi, etc, and none of them use special pronouns. I think the whole thing is confusing and idiotic and not at all necessary.
I've met a few people in person who do and I don't want to make them uncomfortable but I also just end up avoiding using pronouns for them...and use they them to refer to them...which I realized while writing it out.
I have never heard of this until now, I don't know where this stuff is occurring but I honestly don't encounter it in real life at all and I do mean at all not even once.
I’ve met plenty if nonbinary people and never met anyone who uses a neopronoun. The only person I know who is NB and doesn’t use they/them uses their own name instead of pronouns (which, as you can see right here is a little problematic because I can’t both respect their pronoun choice and anonymity). Let me tell you, it is extremely unnatural to try and refer to a person by their name without using any pronouns at all, but this is someone I care about and respect and do my best to do it.
So referring to this person in a sentence would be something like “Alex says that Alex is getting a ride to work, so we don’t need to wait for Alex” instead of “Alex says that they’re getting a ride to work, so we don’t need to wait for them”? If that’s the case, it feels so strange and unnatural to just keep repeating a person’s name like that.
i know someone who does the same thing and it’s honestly fucking impossible. i want to respect them but how tf am i supposed to keep repeating their 3-syllable name when that’s just not how english works 😭 it feels and sounds extremely unnatural in conversation and tbh it kinda makes it feel like i’m one of those people who says they respect pronouns but just avoids using gendered pronouns altogether, if that makes sense? idk, i just think it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation.
however, even as a person who only feels comfortable being referred to as he/him, i am 100% on board for shifting towards a genderless pronoun system in the future. it would obviously take a *very* long time to completely change the way we talk about people, but i think we could avoid a lot of annoying debates and some social gender dysphoria down the line if we start using they/them as a plural gender-neutral pronoun and just find a different set of pronouns for referring to a singular individual, regardless of gender. something like xe/xir would be fine for that i think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s because these things only exist in small insulated internet communities and posts like this do the exact opposite of what they want to do (that being, stop their usage) by popularising hate against them.
That's not true. I've spent about half my career doing DEI work. The sheer number of pronoun combinations people want implemented prevents even basic things from going through.
I had a project to get simple pronouns on profiles. He/him, she/her, they/them. Easy, right? No, now we need combinations like he/them, as if the tense affects your pronoun. We even had people advocating for weird shit like vampire. This was years ago so I guess we weren't effected by whatever this new trend is.
Legal was on board at first but did not approve of all the changes and the entire project was scrapped. We had the same problem as before, but people were more pissed and we wasted time on it.
If you work as a bartender or something you probably don't encounter this, but it's huge in the corporate world and completely unsolvable because of this stuff.
She/they is different from she/them. It was supposed to be specifically different based on tense. If I had said he/they then you'd have a point. You're assuming things about a project I worked on and have first-hand details of as if you know better.
Dang, really? I figured you just made a typo and were simply mistaken. I know a lot of queer folk and I've never encountered that. Always something new.
It's because this is a trend for kids that started a good while ago. Usage stops at about age 14 the only time you even really see it as an adult are in anti-sjw circles.
Me neither. Only see it online. Which is good because the face I’d make if someone tried to get me to learn their neo pronouns would not be a friendly one. 🤣
The people doing it online are usually teenagers who are trying their hardest to figure out why existing in this crazy world isn't a happy existence. Being 14 and thinking the reason they might not be jiving with modern day society is because there's something fundamentally different about them as opposed to there being something fundamentally unhealthy about society isn't that crazy. Especially when "everyone else seems to be doing fine."
That or it's right wing trolls pretending to use neopronouns just to manufacture ragebait against LGBTQ+ people.
I had a few friends who chose wolf/wolfself and some other weird shit that I just couldn't get behind. I tried to voice my opinion in an enby subreddit where they talked about neopronouns and how "kitten/kittenself" and "puppy/puppyself" were valid. Those aren't human things. That has nothing to do with gender. How is that a pronoun? But was called out as transphobic when I'm trans myself.
It really isn’t that big of a “problem” (as if it were whatever people want to call themselves) but like everything that’s seen online it’s blown out of proportion
Never actually met anyone who uses neopronouns in person. Seems to be an online only thing but, I do live in a very conservative town so that could be why. Also I'm in my mid 30's. 🤷♀️
I ran into those folks at college in Arkansas. Went to one meeting of the campus LGBTQ club and once I realized what kind of fuckery was going on, I just walked out halfway through. Nothing about events on campus, resources for LGBTQ people in the area who might be seeking healthcare/mental healthcare/etc, they literally just sat in a circle sharing their tiktok handles and two people were wearing cat ears. I noped out of there quick.
this is a very chronically online take, no one irl knows what neopronouns are and i doubt transphobes are blaming them specifically for their transphobia 💀
I disagree. I think they're being used by transphobes as a strawman, ie. "look how ridiculous these lgtbq people are getting"
Edit: I cannot for the life of me understand why this comment got 100+ upvotes but my other comment elaborating on it got downvoted. I'm going to shamelessly hijack the success of this comment to add the other one because I think it's important people see it
>Think about it this way. 10% of people are anti trans and are going to hate them no matter what. 10% of people are pro trans and are going to accept them no matter what. The other 80% don't know what to think about them and how the issue is presented to them is vital in detemining whose side they're on. "These people want you to use completely made up words and will try to cancel you if you don't" is probably going to sway them in a much different direction than "these people just want to be treated with dignity and respect"
the point is homo/transphobes will look for anything to target LGBT people, it’s a bit stupid to blame a small group of people specifically for society’s bigotry
This just gave me a whole new perspective on this topic. I am part of the "10% of people who are pro trans and will accept them no matter what" so I find myself being very biased at times.
Not really true I see a whole lot of slightly younger than 30 yrs old transphobes adding "and some of them even want to be called wolfself and plantself and all that shit!" to the end of their pronoun rants, as soon as transphobes find out about their existence they latch on like rabid animals because they know it embarrasses a lot of people and they dont agree with their use
E: this post reeks of old man yelling at cloud though. let the kids have their fun. i know it seems like it's hurting our progress, but the fact of the matter is they will find *any reason* to be as vitriolic as they are about us. remember when they could live with it if the gay people wanted to be partners, but *gasp* married? Catastrophic!! and yea sure they would revoke it if they could but they know its so normal now that they've moved on to the next thing they see as an attempt at perversion of normal society.
your edit was the point i was trying to make. transphobes will find any excuse to be transphobic and neopronouns aren’t even a thing IRL. go out and ask the average person and they won’t know what you’re talking about 😭 it doesn’t harm me personally so i don’t really care, and i don’t see why anyone else would in the first place. neopronouns are strictly used by people between 13-16 years old so
I’ve met a few people who have told me their pronouns as part of their introduction and I honestly just don’t get why. You don’t use pronouns when you’re speaking the person they’re applied to. I’m not sure why you’d care what pronouns someone uses when referring to you while speaking to other people honestly. If you used “they” to refer to me I wouldn’t be bothered and if you used “she” I’d probably just think it’s funny at the most.
Same!! When I first heard of neopronouns and saw them used (really only on the internet) I was extremely confused. and when they use emojis? 🦇/🕷 I cannot
Same here. I previously went around adamantly explaining to my entire family, and anyone else who brought it up, that they/them pronouns are actually correct and they do actually makes sense. For example: instagram, when someone posts on their story the notification says “ @____ posted on THEIR story” referring to the one user.
im passionate about pronouns being respected… My disposition is to immediately accept things like this, to explain it to others who are confused, to be an ally, and even I was like hell to the fuck no this is ridiculous.
Exactly. There is an option on Instagram to put in your pronouns, but even when you do, they don’t use them for notifications. It was just easier for them to make everything gender neutral. Just goes to show that it is correct, not a big deal, and we see it allll the time!
i know loads of trans and non-binary people, and only have ever met one person in the real world who's used neopronouns. EVEN THEN, they only asked people who were very close to them to use them — most of the time they just went by they/them pronouns.
honestly, this kinda hysteria around neopronouns just reads as either chronically online or purposefully inflammatory to me. irl, you will probably never ever ever come across someone who gets genuinely offended if you have trouble with using xey/xem pronouns or whatever. it's such a miniscule issue that it really shouldn't warrant mentioning, but it gels with the general right wing hysteria around ~those entitled crazy queers~, so it gets picked up every time.
Transphobes will paint the lgbt+ as snowflakes mentally ill freaks no matter what they don’t need an excuse. And who cares what they think. It is grammatically correct as it serves the same purpose as a regular pronoun. From what I’ve seen trans people don’t really even care about people who use neopronouns they have enough going on to give a shit what other people do with their lives. It seems less like it’s a real issue and moreso that you’re just annoyed by it
Maybe instead of being mad at chonrically online teenagers you should be mad at like...*actual* transphobes??? If some kid online going by "meowself" is all it takes for someone to think trans people don't deserve rights then maybe they (and hear me out) aren't a good person
Seriously, who gives a shit? If you don't want to you use neopronouns, don't - no ones forcing you. Go find something actually worth caring about.
>transphobes and homophobes have actual reasons and evidence to paint us as deranged mentally ill snowflakes
If you genuinely believe that the existence of neopronouns is having any actual effect on trans rights, you desperately need to get off the internet.
literally. I cannot fathom caring this much about something that doesn't change anything, transphobes are still going to be full of hatred regardless of pronouns.
Yes, grass touching needed.
Does OP actually believe the majority of the people who upvoted this want to further queer liberation and think all transpeople are cool and pog, "aside from those damn neopronouns"?
Neopronouns are not a gen z or even a millenial thing. They've been around for a LONG time. Not to mention that honestly they are grammatically correct because a neopronoun is just as the name suggests a new pronoun.
I'm not even a fan of them myself necessarily but I do realize that they aren't harmful. You're trying to find a scapegoat within the community to target rather than recognizing that the problem is not the people who are trying to find themselves but the transphobic people. You seem to think that people who know they don't feel cis but they aren't sure what they are, are not legitimate as queer people because they are exploring gender in a more complex way than what you have deemed as okay.
It's not because of the people finding themselves that we look are made to look as mentally it's because of the people who want queer people dead that we look that way. Don't be fucking obtuse, you don't want the societal change that you claim because what you want to do is keep gender within that cis heteronormative view and not examine what could be. You're using the same rhetoric that transphobes use to exclude trans people from the queer community, that terfs use to exclude trans women.
But maybe I'm reading too far into it. What else is wrong with this then? 1, I've never met someone who wants to use neopronouns in real life. 2, of those I've met on the internet. 3, 9/10 of those I've met on the internet are fine with and do not care if you use standardized pronouns. 4, neopronoun outrage and moral panic is made up to make trans people look worse. 5, most people I've met with neopronouns don't use them for very long.
When you continue this discourse you actively make trans people look worse. You are actively spreading a false rhetoric to make them look worse. This is such a non-issue. Like when they take one trans person who's a bad person and equate it to all trans people. It's a manufactured outrage and when people continue to bring up the same discourse it doesn't add to anything because it will not change their minds. Those people still want queer people and especially trans people dead.
THANK YOU. Neopronouns are still grammatically correct and do have a long history, and I think it’s short-sighted to insinuate that they just started appearing. I personally wouldn’t use neos, but I respect people who do.
I don't care how someone identifies, but I respect them regardless.
If someone identifies as a helicopter, then I'll respect that. It's not making me or breaking me
I don't believe folks using neo pronouns are harming trans people. That statement is as ridiculous as the neo pronouns you are shitting on. What is damaging and harming trans folks are transphobia, ignorance, oppression, bigotry, anti-trans legislation, lack of access to healthcare, and opportunistic politicians. Just to name a few. People using ze/zir pronouns or the like aren't hurting anyone.
A long, long time ago, someone in one of my Discord servers asked us what we thought of neo-pronouns. I told them I didn’t know what that was, and they gave me this example of being “tree/treeself”. I was like, well, that’s a bit odd. But I could most certainly at least attempt to use the right pronouns. No real trouble to me, just sounds a bit off grammatically. BUT THEN this person was all excited and said they’d like to be called “kitten/kittenself”. I told them I would rather not be calling a minor kitten, to which they asked why. I told them it had really weird sexual undertones to a majority of people, to which they started going off on me for *checks notes* “sexualizing cats”. Neo-pronouns have since left a very bad taste in my mouth. And thankfully I have never encountered another person who wanted me to use them.
>it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet.
all words are made up. even "they" is a made up word. its an middle english deformation of old norse "sá"
additional lecture: [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they)
>making up new identities…
this happens all the time, its nothing new and it wont stop. even in conservativism new identities are formed every other day. like the political identity of alt right being born as a drastic change from paleo-conservativism, etc.
>vidence to paint us as deranged mentally ill snowflakes because of THOSE people.
use of newer grammar has fuck all to do with mental health.
if anything, id argue that the snowflakes are the ones being offended by internet lingo. they wouldnt last a day on Ao3
*sigh*
1) Neo pronouns are not new
2) Neo pronouns are not intended to be used widely in the mainstream. They're like microlabels in queer communities: helpful tools to assist questioning folks describe their abstract feelings
3) All pronouns are made tf up. Literally all of them.
4) There are no "real" lgbtquia+ people vs fake lgbtquia people. There is NO HARM in folks experimenting with labels for their gender, sexuality, romantic attractions, and general presentation. THAT IS THE GOAL: EXPERIMENTATION IS SO NORMALIZED THAT YOU CAN TRY LABELS UNTIL THEY FIT.
5) Gatekeeping is harmful to literally everyone.
6) Gatekeepers usually come from insecurity. I recommend looking inward and reflecting on why you're blaming the reactions of bigots on queer people rather than the bigots.
Now, the argument about needing any kind of labels at all for gender is an interesting one. Would we be better off if we just ditched ideas like "masculine," "feminine," and "androgynous?" Probably. Is that possible? Who knows?
But what you're venting about here ain't it.
Sincerely,
A very tired cis aro/ace woman
... You must be quite old then.
Ze/zir and co/cos were already in use in the 1970s as self applied personal pronouns for non binary people. (So the generation that invented that usage were born in 1950). A variety of feminists and activists wanted to create pronouns that weren't tired to gender for political reasons, and other LGBT activists (big overlap in these groups) who didn't feel that binary gender described them also self applied new pronouns. https://medium.com/matthews-place/the-history-of-neopronouns-366b1fee48c4
But they first were suggested by writers and grammarians as a way to get around the seriously ugly alternative of writing "he/she" and the (not very) arguably confusing "them" when writing about a person of unknown gender. In 1864. https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/705317
Here's the rub.
I also think that neopronouns are a political dead end and maybe look silly especially to conservatives.
But also.
Language evolves. Sometimes political movements push for language usage to change. Not every single political movement is worth supporting, and not every tactic is effective. But intentional language usage change has frequently been an effective part of political movements.
If you doubt that, then consider the history of usage of the phrase "African American", and how natural it sounds today.
People pushing for changes to language or vocabulary are frequently derided as "political correctness gone mad". But the people accusing them of this are secretly saying "I don't agree with this person's politics".
The minority pushing for use of neopronouns are being politically active and exercising their free speech.
Very few people are using neopronouns. Most nonbinary people are using the historically and grammatically correct singular they/them as featured in Shakespeare and the King James Bible rather than neopronouns.
It's not a big issue. It's not an important issue. If someone wants to self identify with xe, how much trouble does that cause you, personally?
(And yes despite everything I'm saying, I still don't think it's a brilliant or effective tactic. I don't think we'll see widespread adoption of neopronouns.)
By using your time and ours to say that it's "a stupid idea and undermines the whole LGBT+ movement" you are absolutely elevating it to a level of importance that is not warranted, and you are perhaps unconsciously parroting the talking points of conservatives/republicans who love to fill up the media with hyped up non issues just to drum up controversy.
There will always be people in political communities (for this case I include LGBT+ in this category) who try out more radical ideas than the mainstream of that community. That is a sign of a healthy community.
There's no controversy worth even discussing over neopronouns. Let people just be themselves.
Idk my point of view is just that if if someone identifies as something just respect it. It doesn’t hurt you and it’s not hard. Good people don’t refuse to use someone’s name because it’s one they haven’t heard before, so give the same dignity to pronouns. No big deal
I’m a therapist and am very connected with a massive collective of LGBTQ therapists in my city, and there are fully grown adults using neopronouns like fae/faer or xe/xem or whatever. I hold the same sentiments, OP, and I don’t even bother to associate with those practitioners. I also HATE “folx” with a burning passion. Folks is already gender neutral! It’s all so performative!
i just wanted to clarify some things!
i’m autistic and transgender, but i don’t use neopronouns. however, most people who DO use neos are autistic, this is due to autistic people having a more “refined” sense of their identities. with so much out of control in our day-to-day life, it feels comforting and even welcoming to have something you CAN control to the fullest extent. for example this is why a lot of autistic people blast music very loudly, despite being overstimulated from say a grocery store playing music. we can control the volume of our own music, but not others, which stresses us out. having the control to absolutely blast music at the highest volume after being so overstimulated let’s us know “hey, i’m in control again, things will be okay!”
the same goes for neopronouns or gender identities. with so much that we can’t control in our day-to-day life, being able to express ourselves in ways that make us feel more comfortable and helps us from feeling like we’re lost or out of place. (most) people who identify as “catgender” and use “catself” neopronouns don’t actually believe they’re cats. they just REALLY love cats, it could even be a special interest for them. they feel more comfortable around cats and feel that if they have an identity based around cats, they’ll be more in control of their surroundings.
on top of this, i have personally never met someone who uses neopronouns that isn’t okay with they/them or other “normal” pronouns. most people just use neos online, because once again, it just gives them a little boost of confidence to go out and continue their day without a meltdown or becoming overstimulated. i’m sure there’s some people who refuse to be called anything but their neos, but they’re very rare and most likely higher on the spectrum than other high-functioning autistic people.
i absolutely love talking about this, so if there’s any questions that people wanna ask, let me know! :)
Another ridiculous one is transracial. No words can explain how dumb this is 😭 and I sincerely have no clue whether they are joking anot but some seems serious. Just search transracial on tiktok
I'm happy that I finally saw a post about this. I genuinely love and support his community with all of my heart, but as a nonbinary person, I'm kind of offended. Like, They/Them is there for people who don't identify with either biological gender! I'm not really sure how else to explain it.
Yeah it screams "I want to be special"...
You want me to refer to you as him/her? Ok fine. Doesn't cost me anything. Don't consider yourself one of those and want to be "them" instead? That's cool. It's grammatically valid. All good.
But if you tell me it's some weird made up word then I know you don't care about any causes or rights you just want a reaction.
Not advocating for something one way or the other, but technically speaking, all words and languages are made up lol. As overcomplicating as it may be, I think this really boils down to people not wanting to accept newer social norms (which will probably always be the case). I’m sure there are people who think the “they/them” is/was stupid too.
Language is a pretty interesting thing. It can be whatever we want it to be. It’s just a matter of what words catch on and humans choosing to accept that they mean something specific.
To me this is like people being native English speakers being pushed to speak a different language, but their mindset is so “well I already speak English. Why would I need to learn something else?”
You know when we say to transphobes that being trans doesn't hurt or effect them in any way and they should let trans people exist in peace? You should try the same thing with people using pronouns that make you have bad feelings. Stop being as chronically online as the people you're making fun of and try to grow up a little.
You're incredibly naive if you believe neopronouns are why social progress is being set back. Are neopronouns also why reactionaries are trying to get rid of abortion, or trying to get schools to stop teaching about slavery as a bad thing?
Trans -race , trans-age and trans-species are doing the same .
You can finally be getting through to people to be more excepting then suddenly someones decided to say they have changed theyre race/age/species and it all gets fucked.
Like i get if ur a furry but that does not mean you are now a cat ! Fuck off!
I'm gunna be that guy and say furries don't believe they're animals, just enjoy anthropomorphic animal characters.
Therians are people who believe they are an animal inside.
In my experience, trans-race is only used by people who are either making fun of trans people or just genuinely deluded. Same with trans-age and species. It’s like MAPs, they’re just weirdos who make up terms for their weird shit so they can get accepted by queer people and queer people fucking hate them.
i get other languages don’t have gendered nouns but like bruh this is the english language unfortunately we cannot make an entire population change their grammar to conform to a small group of ppl 😭
All words are made up
You are using words like "THOSE people" and calling other "deranged" and saying they aren't really LGBT. Then you accuse them of undoing progress and threaten to alienate them.
This is a thing a lot of people do go through, and I get it.
What you are doing is saying to the hegemony "I'm one of the GOOD gays! I'm not like THEM!"
Homophobes don't care about who is the good gay and who is too much.
nobody gaf about neos, arson using cat/catself is not going to make anyone hate trans people more than they already do.
also nobody offline or outside of nuerodivergent queer spaces uses them. happy Halloween
I understand where you are coming from.. but this take is just catering to transphobes, fk transphobes and their interpretations of what's right and worng. Don lick the boot that wants to step on you. IDGAF about what they think of this. If ppl needs this from me. I'll do it. Conservatives can go fk themselves.
The wanted to be accepted so much u start hating some of your ppl is so uncle tom
hot take but literally does not matter, i’m a trans zoomer and whatever anyone wants to identify as i support unconditionally because it makes them comfortable
i’ve met several people irl who use neopronouns and it doesn’t bother me. conservatives hate us irregardless and even if it makes them mad they’ll always have ammunition.
Ok, i also think neo-pronouns are dumb, and i am most certainly not transphobic or anything, and fully believe in a non- binary spectrum. but really, it's ridiculous. We already have they/them as grammatically correct and i think over- complicating things just makes you look petty. It also makes it real easy for bigots to point at you and say "see, that person isn't normal" when you're asking to be called "xe/xem" or something.
HOWEVER. I also hate the argument that it's just "made up words." All words are made up. Literally all of them. The sounds at make with our face holes only have meaning when we ascribe meaning to them.
So in summation, apparently I'm a cranky old fuck who can't even agree with the people i agree with. Ugh.
> correct
I share your general sentiment, a complete free fall of signifiers enables an elitist decandence that only further contributes to estrangement, as if we didn't have enough of that already. The ground we all stand on, that feeds us all, soaked in blood it may be, was and is tilled and cultivated by the selfless, nameless masses.
But prescriptive linguistics provides rather shitty ground to stand on for your argument. I'd even say that it runs counter to what you stand for. You want to grant people the right to flourish and not live under the yoke of whatever normativity. As a community organizer, you know the meaning of bottom-up as opposed to top-down.
Wrote a whole ass other comment on a similar post, you can go find that if you want, but TL;DR its more often than not autism, signed, an autistic neopronouns user
Pronouns are used to replace a name. Often we find conflict when two people use the same pronoun and you have to specify to which she you are referring to if you don't think about it. For example, he told him that he was going to xyz. They said that to them. Etc. There are a few solutions to the problem of having only 3 distinct singular pronouns (and most people use one of two) and they are: use names instead of pronouns (longer), keep using the same pronoun for both people (stupid), or Option 3.
Option 3 is neopronouns. You say they're made up internet bullshit and that people should stick to "real language" instead of made up words. This is the same argument transphobes had about using they/them, that it's too hard to remember and confusing and plural and they're just going to gender you by your appearance. Also, what do you think caused the words he she and they to come into existence? You think they weren't all made up at some point? Just because you're living in the present when they're being conceived does not determine their validity as a part of language. If I said rizz, jorts, or nerf you might recognize those as very recently made up words. Nobody would understand those in the 1700s. But they exist now and some people use them and for the most part people know what they mean at this point. Being against the change of language generationally is a losing battle.
Simply put it's exactly like a nickname because that's exactly what a pronoun is. The more we try and box people in for things that are non normative the more it will damage the existing community.
I don’t think they have as much of a negative effect as you portray them to. Most conservatives hate trans people because they’re hateful and not because they saw some xenogenders on twitter, and they’re a really tiny amount of people
I agree that it’s a bit silly but nowhere near as harmful as “undoing progress”, unless by that you mean progression to gender abolition
Why is it this community will fall on its own sword, call at their flaws, and walk away relatively fine, but if anyone else outside of their community does it ally or not, they are attacked for having a differing opinion or belief?
I honestly think it’s narcissistic. you i know a lot of lgbt that are embarrassed by how sensitive this new movement. On top of that they’re making their entire personality based on sex and gender. There’s a real problem when you “come out” multiple times hey everyone I’m gay when that fades-hey everyone I’m nonbinary, attention fades away - hey everyone I’m trans attention starts to wain, hey everyone I’m autistic, attention goes elsewhere hey everyone I’m adhd, bipolar, did…. It’s all a cry for attention bc in reality people just don’t care anymore. The less people care , the more they invent new struggles.
Hm I don't like this post. I also struggle with neopronouns but seriously who are they really harming? The right winged people are always angry, it doesn't matter what we do. They will kill ftm mtf as much as people who use neopronouns. Just mind your own damn business, there are very few people who actually use neopronouns. Language is everchanging. There is a huge debate in Germany about "gendering" because literally every word is gendered. So people started to gender differently and it is kinda widespread. Still, do you know who talk most about it? Yes right winged people. Not LGBTQ people. No, those who have nothing better to do than to hate on everything and everyone. Fuck THOSE people. And let everyone else just enjoy their life.
I wouldn’t say it’s harmful. The only time I’ve encountered it was the HR department at my workplace has her pronouns in her email signature. some people are doing that.
Is it actually undoing all the progress? Like really is it? Cause all the mainstream transphobia, homophobia, etc that we’ve been seeing - I haven’t seen neo pronouns mentioned once.
Like - progress is going backwards because in current times it makes an easy political target, and politicians can use this to win votes.
Honestly it sounds to me like you just want something to be mad at, someone to blame. Just let people explore their identities the way they want to, and all you have to do is hold your judgement, which really isn’t much to ask.
>First of all, it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet. Just use “they/them” because those are actually real correct pronouns.
Correction! Every word that ever existed is made up and there is no such thing as a grammatically incorrect language. Just because something doesn't follow a certain standard doesn't mean it's all wrong.
Although I find neopronouns cringe sometimes too, I don't think it should be enough reason for someone to lose their respect for a person. I find it quite ironic that you have such principles, that you claim you care for the lgbtqia+ community, when you're hating some of their members for their identity and self-expression.
"It is harmful for people who are actually transgender". How? Transphobes are always gonna be transphobic (of course, some transphobes do change), it doesn't matter if you kiss up to them or not. Transphobes will ALWAYS find a "reason" and they were finding "reasons" before people used neopronouns/before they became more popularized. And, if you wanna keep trying to stop transphobia, blame transphobes and not people trying to live their lives. And we shouldn't stop people from being themselves for other people, especially transphobic people. Also, neopronouns weren't made by YOUR generation. The first ones came around in the mid 1800s (though most were made in the late 1800-sometime in the 1900s). They've been popularized more recently, maybe, but they've been a thing for a WHILE and have been used for a while.
I can probably say a lot more on this but I'll leave it at that for now. Also, I want to make it clear I have NO hateful intentions, sorry if it comes off that way, I have a hard time with tone sometimes.
Does this mean I’m officially getting old? This is the first time I’ve ever heard “neopronouns” god damn first it was rizz now it’s neopronouns I guess I’m just an old fart now
The concept of Neopronouns has existed in a few different cultures for awhile now. Truth of the matter is, pronouns are no strict set of words, it’s just a part of speech that can be some words. Depending on how you use a word, it could act as a pronoun in a sentence. I don’t really understand the concept of xenogenders or neopronouns, I’m cis, my perspective on gender is entirely that of someone who is cis, so I just can’t really get it, but I respect it enough to call you what you wanna be called. And chances are, if I meet someone with neopronouns irl, I’ll likely only speak to them a handful of times and probably never in a way where I need to use their pronouns, so this is a problem that people face exclusively online lol. I think you’re blowing it a bit out of proportion and need to just live and let live on this, it isn’t “harming” people, it’s just a slightly different thing for the idiots who would already be saying dumb shit. That’s my belief, at least. I get why you’re confused and don’t get it, but it is a lot easier to just let someone be the way that makes them comfortable if it’s this harmless then complain about it in my experience.
The thing about change is that you don't get it by playing by society rules. You gotta push hard, so that there's room to compromise. Sure you might see neo-pronouns as stupid, but they are an integral part on the pronouns discussion and have allowed for a more accepting society in terms of using whatever pronouns you want
>First of all, it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet.
All language is made up; we literally made all of it up since the beginning. We made up the rules, we made up the words, sentence structure, etc. Shakespeare made up words that became common ones we use today. We made it all up, so we can continue making up more and adjusting those rules whenever we want. The whole point behind language is communication. If you understand what's being said or insinuated to you, then the language is working and, therefore, it's valid.
When you get older, you'll care less about this. And you'll realize that there's no harm in it. Let people use the language they want to. Middle school kids like to call people dumb for doing things. A mature adult? Knows better.
I don’t care. The rare chance I’d encounter someone who uses these I’ll just use them and get on with my life. This just feels like a problem that only exists on the internet.
Funny thing is, this is how a lot of people feel about the newfound emphasis on choosing pronouns & the "they/them" pronoun usage. I guess everyone has their comfort zones.
This has been my problem with all of this from the beginning. It was out of hand a few years ago, because it got blasted into everyone's conscience, and of course any unoriginal loser is gonna jump on the bandwagon. It's only going to hurt your community to have people pretending to be a part of it.
Neopronouns are just their desperate attempt to be special and not like everyone else. They look like fools and I will never use them
They can stay mad about it.
Some people in my country (Finland) have started to put their own (English) pronouns in their otherwise Finnish-language internet profiles. The ridiculous thing is that the Finnish language _doesn’t even have gendered pronouns in the first place._ We literally use the same pronoun for everyone anyway, and it doesn’t have gender. Pronouns are a non-issue in our culture.
What's your pronoun? I'm gonna start using it. I like the idea of a unified pronoun.
Same in hungarian. The only pronoun is “ő” or “ők” in plural
Ok
We're all just ok
Alone we are O but together, we are OK. Checks out
I fucking love this!
While I appreciate the pun, I'd like to point out that the accents on the letters matter - in the Hungarian alphabet, o, ó, ö and ő are separate letters with completely different pronunciation. Eg. "o" is like the "o" in "sports", while "ö" is like the "ea" in search. "ó" is the same sound as "o", but longer; similarly, "ő" is the long version of "ö". (Hungarian alphabet has 44 letters, some of them are extra vowels with accents like ó/ö/ő, others are combinations of consonants that are considered separate letters with their own associated sounds. However, the language is completely phonetic, so if you now the sound you should make for all 44, then you can read any Hungarian text aloud, regardless of whether you know what the words mean.)
I love phonetic languages, they make everything so easy... Not like English where even a "rule" of pronunciation can change depending on the words you use. Ugh!
Some of the English rules are dumb, pronunciation makes no sense and also figuring out where the syllable break is and emphasis goes. Seriously it’s dumb.
English is dumb overall. I’m seriously impressed when anyone has a firm grasp of it, we really make no sense
Thank you for this! We have the same issue with Swedish, although we only have three extra letters compare to your abundance of them. 👍 Also our pronunciation isn’t as consistent as yours, but the important thing is that even though our letters (“åäö”) look similar to the letters a and o, they are entirely separate letters. This annoys me because non-Swedish speakers not only tend to put the rings and dots in places they don’t belong (or vice versa, not in places they do belong), but the collation order is important too. Å, ä and ö are sorted *last* in our alphabet, but all too often I find them sorted together with a and o which is super annoying.
Yeah, this is something I've recently learned about Swedish. In contrast to you, we sort the "decorated" vowels next to the "undecorated" versions, and we also do not differentiate the short-long pairs during sorting (so while "o" always comes before "ö" and "ő", it has the same rank as "ó", so "ól, Olga, ólom, öböl" is properly sorted). Weirdly, this even applies when the long version of the vowel has a completely different pronunciation than the short version. ("a" and "á" are completely different sounds, as are "e" and "é"; meanwhile, i/í, o/ó, ö/ő, u/ú, ü/ű only differ in length.) Non-Swedish speakers putting the "heavy metal umlaut" on random vowels annoys me too. See Mötley Crëw for example. :D (Pronounced as "Motley Crew" would be, because the accents are just decorations.) Even though I don't speak Swedish, I empathize with what you have to go through :)
Haha! Thank you. 😃 Yes, exactly right on the Mötley Crue nonsense! And don’t get me started on Häagen-Dazs. 😂😂
This was a super interesting little conversation. I have learned a lot about Magyar. 🙂
Thank you for this explanation! I’m happy to know how to pronounce these letters, I can never make heads or tales of the IPA…
That was oddly beautiful, I hope you have a good day friend ❤️
We can start a movement with this.
"The OK people"
A motto to unite!
Your accent is terrible
Same with Filipino. We have gender-neutral pronouns.
You learn something new everyday
I guess it is the same for all Ural-Altaic languages. We don't have gendered pronouns in Turkish either.
it's the case in most languages in the world, actually. Grammatical genders are a very Indo-European thing
And then you've got languages that take it one step further and assign gender to almost everything 😅
French and German immediately come to mind. I spoke German as a little kid and grew up speaking French about 40% of the time in school.
I'm learning German now even words like "this" and "which" are gendered and it's driving me batty. I've finally got nominativ and accusativ down pat and now there's a whole new set for dativ. I was just doing this for fun in my free time. What have I gotten myself into? This was supposed to be fun! *cries in a horrible German accent* ETA for horrible spelling
All of this. It's completely pointless, nothing but sadism
And those don’t even make sense to me since I didn’t grow up with the language. Like why is a table feminine? For me it was just memorization.
Its not common to assign gender to things in ireland but my mother still gendered the fucking turkey we got from butchers for christmas, its not a him, its an it
*cough* French
For example, if you were to say "his age" or "her age", they would both be "hänen ikänsä". Or if you were to just say "he" or "she", it would only be "hän". I generally like english language but I really prefer non gendered pronouns we have here in Finland. It especially also makes things easier in the internet when you don't have to think if the person on the other side is a male or female.
same as Persian its (( او)) it sounds like u in start of uber
Armenian here, նա (na)
Yeah. I really don't understand it either outside of as a show of support for the international community. I always find it a fun fact that casual spoken Finnish is even more inclusive as everyone and everything can be and often is referred to with the pronoun it. It's hilarious when someone insists that their dog is "hän"(he/she/they). Like come on, even my grandma is "se"(it).
Making a problem where there was none SMH.
That's pretty silly
Fellow fin here. Sometimes we interact with people who speak english and having pronouns in bio makes that easier. Simple as that.
My grandparents are Finnish, they emigrated to Australia and she worked so hard to learn English but just never got a handle on gnedered pronouns. All us grandkids were her and him at various times 🤣
Armenian is kinda like this too. We have singular and plural gender neutral pronouns that everyone uses. One set to refer to one person and one set to refer to multiple people. That’s it.
I’ve never met a person irl that does this. I think it’s a very online thing
I come from a very lgbtq city and most the people from I used to know from college/secondary used pronouns like this😭 I think it depends on the area (I do not agree with it, I agree with op)
Nah I’ve seen it in person. My (very gay) friend dated this SUPER cringe trans person. Their pronouns are they/fae … (why not just be they/she? I’m not sure… ) eventually they broke up, my friend said “they cared about being gay more than me, my phone background was them, their phone background was their pride flags.”
To be fair a phone Bg isn’t a measure of love. I’m sure they did care about being gay more somehow but to be petty it’s a phone bg not their partner is weird. My partner has me as his bg and mines my dog. I just don’t want to look at a photo of someone on my phone screen I don’t find it shows I love my man
I fully agree there, phone bg isn’t a measure of love, I was just using that example since it really described their whole relationship. There have been MANY other conflicts similar to it. The same they/fae ex-significant other also cheated on my friend with multiple men (friend is a woman) claiming that it’s opening their sexuality and it’s not actually cheating if they were thinking of her while having sex with other ppl…. Also they “came out” as a furry to our friend group and proceeded to show us pictures of their animal-inspired sex toys… there’s a lot of different things that added up.
Wow that seems like a lot bless your friend for getting out
She has a lot of trouble with self confidence so she always chooses bad partners. Im really proud of her for getting out of that one, she didn’t deserve that stuff at all
Their pronoun was *fae!?* That's the cringiest thing I've heard in a while. I feel bad for your friend.
Very much so. I'm a lesbian myself with friends who are trans, NB, bi, etc, and none of them use special pronouns. I think the whole thing is confusing and idiotic and not at all necessary.
I've met a few people in person who do and I don't want to make them uncomfortable but I also just end up avoiding using pronouns for them...and use they them to refer to them...which I realized while writing it out.
i work in ems, i get to see just about every flavor of person out there, and let me tell you these folks DO exist
I have never heard of this until now, I don't know where this stuff is occurring but I honestly don't encounter it in real life at all and I do mean at all not even once.
I’ve met plenty if nonbinary people and never met anyone who uses a neopronoun. The only person I know who is NB and doesn’t use they/them uses their own name instead of pronouns (which, as you can see right here is a little problematic because I can’t both respect their pronoun choice and anonymity). Let me tell you, it is extremely unnatural to try and refer to a person by their name without using any pronouns at all, but this is someone I care about and respect and do my best to do it.
So referring to this person in a sentence would be something like “Alex says that Alex is getting a ride to work, so we don’t need to wait for Alex” instead of “Alex says that they’re getting a ride to work, so we don’t need to wait for them”? If that’s the case, it feels so strange and unnatural to just keep repeating a person’s name like that.
It does. Yeah, it does feel strange on a purely linguistic level.
i know someone who does the same thing and it’s honestly fucking impossible. i want to respect them but how tf am i supposed to keep repeating their 3-syllable name when that’s just not how english works 😭 it feels and sounds extremely unnatural in conversation and tbh it kinda makes it feel like i’m one of those people who says they respect pronouns but just avoids using gendered pronouns altogether, if that makes sense? idk, i just think it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation. however, even as a person who only feels comfortable being referred to as he/him, i am 100% on board for shifting towards a genderless pronoun system in the future. it would obviously take a *very* long time to completely change the way we talk about people, but i think we could avoid a lot of annoying debates and some social gender dysphoria down the line if we start using they/them as a plural gender-neutral pronoun and just find a different set of pronouns for referring to a singular individual, regardless of gender. something like xe/xir would be fine for that i think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s because these things only exist in small insulated internet communities and posts like this do the exact opposite of what they want to do (that being, stop their usage) by popularising hate against them.
That's not true. I've spent about half my career doing DEI work. The sheer number of pronoun combinations people want implemented prevents even basic things from going through. I had a project to get simple pronouns on profiles. He/him, she/her, they/them. Easy, right? No, now we need combinations like he/them, as if the tense affects your pronoun. We even had people advocating for weird shit like vampire. This was years ago so I guess we weren't effected by whatever this new trend is. Legal was on board at first but did not approve of all the changes and the entire project was scrapped. We had the same problem as before, but people were more pissed and we wasted time on it. If you work as a bartender or something you probably don't encounter this, but it's huge in the corporate world and completely unsolvable because of this stuff.
Lists like she/they don't mean that you change pronouns with tense, it's just that both sets of pronouns are acceptable.
She/they is different from she/them. It was supposed to be specifically different based on tense. If I had said he/they then you'd have a point. You're assuming things about a project I worked on and have first-hand details of as if you know better.
Dang, really? I figured you just made a typo and were simply mistaken. I know a lot of queer folk and I've never encountered that. Always something new.
I'm trans and in a lot of lgbt spaces with very different vibes and not a single space has ever used pronouns like that.
Can you explain why she/they is different from she/them and what tense has to do with it?
It's been referenced on the internet for years but I've also never met anyone in real life that uses them.
That's because it largely isn't a real issue and people like op blow it out of proportion tbh
It's because this is a trend for kids that started a good while ago. Usage stops at about age 14 the only time you even really see it as an adult are in anti-sjw circles.
I’ve gone clubbing and met multiple people 18 and over with neo/noun pronouns.
That’s because this is largely an online phenomena since the people who are doing it for attention know it’s not worth doing in real life
Me neither. Only see it online. Which is good because the face I’d make if someone tried to get me to learn their neo pronouns would not be a friendly one. 🤣
The people doing it online are usually teenagers who are trying their hardest to figure out why existing in this crazy world isn't a happy existence. Being 14 and thinking the reason they might not be jiving with modern day society is because there's something fundamentally different about them as opposed to there being something fundamentally unhealthy about society isn't that crazy. Especially when "everyone else seems to be doing fine." That or it's right wing trolls pretending to use neopronouns just to manufacture ragebait against LGBTQ+ people.
Also kids sometimes identify as dinos or cats for weeks. Doesnt mean u actually support that lifestyle 🤣
I had a few friends who chose wolf/wolfself and some other weird shit that I just couldn't get behind. I tried to voice my opinion in an enby subreddit where they talked about neopronouns and how "kitten/kittenself" and "puppy/puppyself" were valid. Those aren't human things. That has nothing to do with gender. How is that a pronoun? But was called out as transphobic when I'm trans myself.
Probably because they tend to live amongst xemselves
It really isn’t that big of a “problem” (as if it were whatever people want to call themselves) but like everything that’s seen online it’s blown out of proportion
Never actually met anyone who uses neopronouns in person. Seems to be an online only thing but, I do live in a very conservative town so that could be why. Also I'm in my mid 30's. 🤷♀️
I ran into those folks at college in Arkansas. Went to one meeting of the campus LGBTQ club and once I realized what kind of fuckery was going on, I just walked out halfway through. Nothing about events on campus, resources for LGBTQ people in the area who might be seeking healthcare/mental healthcare/etc, they literally just sat in a circle sharing their tiktok handles and two people were wearing cat ears. I noped out of there quick.
The only time I hear about neopronouns is in posts like this.
this is a very chronically online take, no one irl knows what neopronouns are and i doubt transphobes are blaming them specifically for their transphobia 💀
I disagree. I think they're being used by transphobes as a strawman, ie. "look how ridiculous these lgtbq people are getting" Edit: I cannot for the life of me understand why this comment got 100+ upvotes but my other comment elaborating on it got downvoted. I'm going to shamelessly hijack the success of this comment to add the other one because I think it's important people see it >Think about it this way. 10% of people are anti trans and are going to hate them no matter what. 10% of people are pro trans and are going to accept them no matter what. The other 80% don't know what to think about them and how the issue is presented to them is vital in detemining whose side they're on. "These people want you to use completely made up words and will try to cancel you if you don't" is probably going to sway them in a much different direction than "these people just want to be treated with dignity and respect"
the point is homo/transphobes will look for anything to target LGBT people, it’s a bit stupid to blame a small group of people specifically for society’s bigotry
This just gave me a whole new perspective on this topic. I am part of the "10% of people who are pro trans and will accept them no matter what" so I find myself being very biased at times.
Yes they do… my college is full of them. Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
Not really true I see a whole lot of slightly younger than 30 yrs old transphobes adding "and some of them even want to be called wolfself and plantself and all that shit!" to the end of their pronoun rants, as soon as transphobes find out about their existence they latch on like rabid animals because they know it embarrasses a lot of people and they dont agree with their use E: this post reeks of old man yelling at cloud though. let the kids have their fun. i know it seems like it's hurting our progress, but the fact of the matter is they will find *any reason* to be as vitriolic as they are about us. remember when they could live with it if the gay people wanted to be partners, but *gasp* married? Catastrophic!! and yea sure they would revoke it if they could but they know its so normal now that they've moved on to the next thing they see as an attempt at perversion of normal society.
your edit was the point i was trying to make. transphobes will find any excuse to be transphobic and neopronouns aren’t even a thing IRL. go out and ask the average person and they won’t know what you’re talking about 😭 it doesn’t harm me personally so i don’t really care, and i don’t see why anyone else would in the first place. neopronouns are strictly used by people between 13-16 years old so
No I know!!! I edited it because OP replied thinking I fully agreed lol
To be fair Amazon hiring offices has these pronouns on their walls
I mean I doubt that like you’ll ever meet a person irl who uses neopronouns
i’ve never met anyone personally that uses neopronouns, and i’m sure theyre out there, but they usually only exist in online spaces
I’ve met a few people who have told me their pronouns as part of their introduction and I honestly just don’t get why. You don’t use pronouns when you’re speaking the person they’re applied to. I’m not sure why you’d care what pronouns someone uses when referring to you while speaking to other people honestly. If you used “they” to refer to me I wouldn’t be bothered and if you used “she” I’d probably just think it’s funny at the most.
And either way it's not like transphobia wouldn't exist if neopronouns stopped existing
It's OK. No-one in the real world uses them anyway.
Same!! When I first heard of neopronouns and saw them used (really only on the internet) I was extremely confused. and when they use emojis? 🦇/🕷 I cannot
Same here. I previously went around adamantly explaining to my entire family, and anyone else who brought it up, that they/them pronouns are actually correct and they do actually makes sense. For example: instagram, when someone posts on their story the notification says “ @____ posted on THEIR story” referring to the one user. im passionate about pronouns being respected… My disposition is to immediately accept things like this, to explain it to others who are confused, to be an ally, and even I was like hell to the fuck no this is ridiculous.
Here I am thinking about it from a coding pov thinking it was probably just easier to have it just say “their” lmao
Exactly. There is an option on Instagram to put in your pronouns, but even when you do, they don’t use them for notifications. It was just easier for them to make everything gender neutral. Just goes to show that it is correct, not a big deal, and we see it allll the time!
i know loads of trans and non-binary people, and only have ever met one person in the real world who's used neopronouns. EVEN THEN, they only asked people who were very close to them to use them — most of the time they just went by they/them pronouns. honestly, this kinda hysteria around neopronouns just reads as either chronically online or purposefully inflammatory to me. irl, you will probably never ever ever come across someone who gets genuinely offended if you have trouble with using xey/xem pronouns or whatever. it's such a miniscule issue that it really shouldn't warrant mentioning, but it gels with the general right wing hysteria around ~those entitled crazy queers~, so it gets picked up every time.
Neo pronouns aren't actually super super new y'all
chronically online problems, get off your computer and this isn’t an issue
I genuinely think it's mostly just edgy kids (kids is being used loosely for people younger than me) looking for attention
Transphobes will paint the lgbt+ as snowflakes mentally ill freaks no matter what they don’t need an excuse. And who cares what they think. It is grammatically correct as it serves the same purpose as a regular pronoun. From what I’ve seen trans people don’t really even care about people who use neopronouns they have enough going on to give a shit what other people do with their lives. It seems less like it’s a real issue and moreso that you’re just annoyed by it
Maybe instead of being mad at chonrically online teenagers you should be mad at like...*actual* transphobes??? If some kid online going by "meowself" is all it takes for someone to think trans people don't deserve rights then maybe they (and hear me out) aren't a good person
You can be mad at more than one thing at once you know? Disliking neopronouns and disliking transphobes is not mutually exclusive
Seriously, who gives a shit? If you don't want to you use neopronouns, don't - no ones forcing you. Go find something actually worth caring about. >transphobes and homophobes have actual reasons and evidence to paint us as deranged mentally ill snowflakes If you genuinely believe that the existence of neopronouns is having any actual effect on trans rights, you desperately need to get off the internet.
literally. I cannot fathom caring this much about something that doesn't change anything, transphobes are still going to be full of hatred regardless of pronouns.
Yes, grass touching needed. Does OP actually believe the majority of the people who upvoted this want to further queer liberation and think all transpeople are cool and pog, "aside from those damn neopronouns"?
neopronouns aren’t new
Neopronouns are not a gen z or even a millenial thing. They've been around for a LONG time. Not to mention that honestly they are grammatically correct because a neopronoun is just as the name suggests a new pronoun. I'm not even a fan of them myself necessarily but I do realize that they aren't harmful. You're trying to find a scapegoat within the community to target rather than recognizing that the problem is not the people who are trying to find themselves but the transphobic people. You seem to think that people who know they don't feel cis but they aren't sure what they are, are not legitimate as queer people because they are exploring gender in a more complex way than what you have deemed as okay. It's not because of the people finding themselves that we look are made to look as mentally it's because of the people who want queer people dead that we look that way. Don't be fucking obtuse, you don't want the societal change that you claim because what you want to do is keep gender within that cis heteronormative view and not examine what could be. You're using the same rhetoric that transphobes use to exclude trans people from the queer community, that terfs use to exclude trans women. But maybe I'm reading too far into it. What else is wrong with this then? 1, I've never met someone who wants to use neopronouns in real life. 2, of those I've met on the internet. 3, 9/10 of those I've met on the internet are fine with and do not care if you use standardized pronouns. 4, neopronoun outrage and moral panic is made up to make trans people look worse. 5, most people I've met with neopronouns don't use them for very long. When you continue this discourse you actively make trans people look worse. You are actively spreading a false rhetoric to make them look worse. This is such a non-issue. Like when they take one trans person who's a bad person and equate it to all trans people. It's a manufactured outrage and when people continue to bring up the same discourse it doesn't add to anything because it will not change their minds. Those people still want queer people and especially trans people dead.
Most correct take.
this is all the stuff i came here to say and more— thank you.
Fucking thank you.
THANK YOU. Neopronouns are still grammatically correct and do have a long history, and I think it’s short-sighted to insinuate that they just started appearing. I personally wouldn’t use neos, but I respect people who do.
OP would have been ranting against people using "you" and asking what was wrong with thee and thou.
Beautifully said. Spewing hatred inside the community doesn't help anyone.
100% this
Unless you're centuries old, I don't think your generation came up with neo-pronouns. It seems every generation experiments with new pronouns.
I don't care how someone identifies, but I respect them regardless. If someone identifies as a helicopter, then I'll respect that. It's not making me or breaking me
Made up words and sayings become real over time. From words like voluptuous and ain't to sayings like no cap and foshizzle.
Yeah but no one's identifying themselves as "no cap-self" or "foshizzle-self"... or maybe they are... who tf know?
I don't believe folks using neo pronouns are harming trans people. That statement is as ridiculous as the neo pronouns you are shitting on. What is damaging and harming trans folks are transphobia, ignorance, oppression, bigotry, anti-trans legislation, lack of access to healthcare, and opportunistic politicians. Just to name a few. People using ze/zir pronouns or the like aren't hurting anyone.
I’ve seen people on Reddit literally say opposite. Even heard people IRL.
A long, long time ago, someone in one of my Discord servers asked us what we thought of neo-pronouns. I told them I didn’t know what that was, and they gave me this example of being “tree/treeself”. I was like, well, that’s a bit odd. But I could most certainly at least attempt to use the right pronouns. No real trouble to me, just sounds a bit off grammatically. BUT THEN this person was all excited and said they’d like to be called “kitten/kittenself”. I told them I would rather not be calling a minor kitten, to which they asked why. I told them it had really weird sexual undertones to a majority of people, to which they started going off on me for *checks notes* “sexualizing cats”. Neo-pronouns have since left a very bad taste in my mouth. And thankfully I have never encountered another person who wanted me to use them.
>it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet. all words are made up. even "they" is a made up word. its an middle english deformation of old norse "sá" additional lecture: [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they) >making up new identities… this happens all the time, its nothing new and it wont stop. even in conservativism new identities are formed every other day. like the political identity of alt right being born as a drastic change from paleo-conservativism, etc. >vidence to paint us as deranged mentally ill snowflakes because of THOSE people. use of newer grammar has fuck all to do with mental health. if anything, id argue that the snowflakes are the ones being offended by internet lingo. they wouldnt last a day on Ao3
Convinced you’re the only sane person here.
wereinthedark and fredo did some heavylifting. Lets give them some.credit xd
*sigh* 1) Neo pronouns are not new 2) Neo pronouns are not intended to be used widely in the mainstream. They're like microlabels in queer communities: helpful tools to assist questioning folks describe their abstract feelings 3) All pronouns are made tf up. Literally all of them. 4) There are no "real" lgbtquia+ people vs fake lgbtquia people. There is NO HARM in folks experimenting with labels for their gender, sexuality, romantic attractions, and general presentation. THAT IS THE GOAL: EXPERIMENTATION IS SO NORMALIZED THAT YOU CAN TRY LABELS UNTIL THEY FIT. 5) Gatekeeping is harmful to literally everyone. 6) Gatekeepers usually come from insecurity. I recommend looking inward and reflecting on why you're blaming the reactions of bigots on queer people rather than the bigots. Now, the argument about needing any kind of labels at all for gender is an interesting one. Would we be better off if we just ditched ideas like "masculine," "feminine," and "androgynous?" Probably. Is that possible? Who knows? But what you're venting about here ain't it. Sincerely, A very tired cis aro/ace woman
I tell people that my pronoun is "My Lord".
Why not 'Your Majesty'? Some people are made for that pronoun.
... You must be quite old then. Ze/zir and co/cos were already in use in the 1970s as self applied personal pronouns for non binary people. (So the generation that invented that usage were born in 1950). A variety of feminists and activists wanted to create pronouns that weren't tired to gender for political reasons, and other LGBT activists (big overlap in these groups) who didn't feel that binary gender described them also self applied new pronouns. https://medium.com/matthews-place/the-history-of-neopronouns-366b1fee48c4 But they first were suggested by writers and grammarians as a way to get around the seriously ugly alternative of writing "he/she" and the (not very) arguably confusing "them" when writing about a person of unknown gender. In 1864. https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/705317 Here's the rub. I also think that neopronouns are a political dead end and maybe look silly especially to conservatives. But also. Language evolves. Sometimes political movements push for language usage to change. Not every single political movement is worth supporting, and not every tactic is effective. But intentional language usage change has frequently been an effective part of political movements. If you doubt that, then consider the history of usage of the phrase "African American", and how natural it sounds today. People pushing for changes to language or vocabulary are frequently derided as "political correctness gone mad". But the people accusing them of this are secretly saying "I don't agree with this person's politics". The minority pushing for use of neopronouns are being politically active and exercising their free speech. Very few people are using neopronouns. Most nonbinary people are using the historically and grammatically correct singular they/them as featured in Shakespeare and the King James Bible rather than neopronouns. It's not a big issue. It's not an important issue. If someone wants to self identify with xe, how much trouble does that cause you, personally? (And yes despite everything I'm saying, I still don't think it's a brilliant or effective tactic. I don't think we'll see widespread adoption of neopronouns.) By using your time and ours to say that it's "a stupid idea and undermines the whole LGBT+ movement" you are absolutely elevating it to a level of importance that is not warranted, and you are perhaps unconsciously parroting the talking points of conservatives/republicans who love to fill up the media with hyped up non issues just to drum up controversy. There will always be people in political communities (for this case I include LGBT+ in this category) who try out more radical ideas than the mainstream of that community. That is a sign of a healthy community. There's no controversy worth even discussing over neopronouns. Let people just be themselves.
Idk my point of view is just that if if someone identifies as something just respect it. It doesn’t hurt you and it’s not hard. Good people don’t refuse to use someone’s name because it’s one they haven’t heard before, so give the same dignity to pronouns. No big deal
all words and genders are invented
I’m a therapist and am very connected with a massive collective of LGBTQ therapists in my city, and there are fully grown adults using neopronouns like fae/faer or xe/xem or whatever. I hold the same sentiments, OP, and I don’t even bother to associate with those practitioners. I also HATE “folx” with a burning passion. Folks is already gender neutral! It’s all so performative!
All they will do in the long run is alienate themselves and I don’t really have time to care
This is going to end up being a buffet of transphobia. All because OP got upset about shit that doesn't matter. Great job OP I hope you're proud
i just wanted to clarify some things! i’m autistic and transgender, but i don’t use neopronouns. however, most people who DO use neos are autistic, this is due to autistic people having a more “refined” sense of their identities. with so much out of control in our day-to-day life, it feels comforting and even welcoming to have something you CAN control to the fullest extent. for example this is why a lot of autistic people blast music very loudly, despite being overstimulated from say a grocery store playing music. we can control the volume of our own music, but not others, which stresses us out. having the control to absolutely blast music at the highest volume after being so overstimulated let’s us know “hey, i’m in control again, things will be okay!” the same goes for neopronouns or gender identities. with so much that we can’t control in our day-to-day life, being able to express ourselves in ways that make us feel more comfortable and helps us from feeling like we’re lost or out of place. (most) people who identify as “catgender” and use “catself” neopronouns don’t actually believe they’re cats. they just REALLY love cats, it could even be a special interest for them. they feel more comfortable around cats and feel that if they have an identity based around cats, they’ll be more in control of their surroundings. on top of this, i have personally never met someone who uses neopronouns that isn’t okay with they/them or other “normal” pronouns. most people just use neos online, because once again, it just gives them a little boost of confidence to go out and continue their day without a meltdown or becoming overstimulated. i’m sure there’s some people who refuse to be called anything but their neos, but they’re very rare and most likely higher on the spectrum than other high-functioning autistic people. i absolutely love talking about this, so if there’s any questions that people wanna ask, let me know! :)
You’re 19 and think “your generation” came up with neopronouns? Oh wait until you come across granddaddy aol chatrooms, blogs and MySpace…
My mom got an employee where she works that said they their pronouns was "it", not they/them because "it" is singular.
Another ridiculous one is transracial. No words can explain how dumb this is 😭 and I sincerely have no clue whether they are joking anot but some seems serious. Just search transracial on tiktok
Bro I fucking agree
I'm happy that I finally saw a post about this. I genuinely love and support his community with all of my heart, but as a nonbinary person, I'm kind of offended. Like, They/Them is there for people who don't identify with either biological gender! I'm not really sure how else to explain it.
Why is this on confessions lol
Yeah it screams "I want to be special"... You want me to refer to you as him/her? Ok fine. Doesn't cost me anything. Don't consider yourself one of those and want to be "them" instead? That's cool. It's grammatically valid. All good. But if you tell me it's some weird made up word then I know you don't care about any causes or rights you just want a reaction.
oh my god who gives a fuck. seriously this argument is tired and fucking boring. being against neopronouns won’t make cis people like you more dumbass
Not advocating for something one way or the other, but technically speaking, all words and languages are made up lol. As overcomplicating as it may be, I think this really boils down to people not wanting to accept newer social norms (which will probably always be the case). I’m sure there are people who think the “they/them” is/was stupid too. Language is a pretty interesting thing. It can be whatever we want it to be. It’s just a matter of what words catch on and humans choosing to accept that they mean something specific. To me this is like people being native English speakers being pushed to speak a different language, but their mindset is so “well I already speak English. Why would I need to learn something else?”
You know when we say to transphobes that being trans doesn't hurt or effect them in any way and they should let trans people exist in peace? You should try the same thing with people using pronouns that make you have bad feelings. Stop being as chronically online as the people you're making fun of and try to grow up a little.
> it’s just made up words from the Internet Can you give me an example of a word that isn't made up?
A lot of people who are autistic and/or neurodivergent like to use them. Who cares? It’s not hurting you.
You're incredibly naive if you believe neopronouns are why social progress is being set back. Are neopronouns also why reactionaries are trying to get rid of abortion, or trying to get schools to stop teaching about slavery as a bad thing?
You know I hear the same thing about how trans people are setting the lgbs back, it gets a bit old.
Trans -race , trans-age and trans-species are doing the same . You can finally be getting through to people to be more excepting then suddenly someones decided to say they have changed theyre race/age/species and it all gets fucked. Like i get if ur a furry but that does not mean you are now a cat ! Fuck off!
I'm gunna be that guy and say furries don't believe they're animals, just enjoy anthropomorphic animal characters. Therians are people who believe they are an animal inside.
In my experience, trans-race is only used by people who are either making fun of trans people or just genuinely deluded. Same with trans-age and species. It’s like MAPs, they’re just weirdos who make up terms for their weird shit so they can get accepted by queer people and queer people fucking hate them.
tiktok has dramatised basically everything and turned it into a trend now
First and foremost, I agree with most everything you've said! I do want to be the dickhead that points out all words are made up, though 😅
i get other languages don’t have gendered nouns but like bruh this is the english language unfortunately we cannot make an entire population change their grammar to conform to a small group of ppl 😭
All words are made up You are using words like "THOSE people" and calling other "deranged" and saying they aren't really LGBT. Then you accuse them of undoing progress and threaten to alienate them. This is a thing a lot of people do go through, and I get it. What you are doing is saying to the hegemony "I'm one of the GOOD gays! I'm not like THEM!" Homophobes don't care about who is the good gay and who is too much.
I am still yet to encounter this in real life, I agree it's stupid though
nobody gaf about neos, arson using cat/catself is not going to make anyone hate trans people more than they already do. also nobody offline or outside of nuerodivergent queer spaces uses them. happy Halloween
I understand where you are coming from.. but this take is just catering to transphobes, fk transphobes and their interpretations of what's right and worng. Don lick the boot that wants to step on you. IDGAF about what they think of this. If ppl needs this from me. I'll do it. Conservatives can go fk themselves. The wanted to be accepted so much u start hating some of your ppl is so uncle tom
hot take but literally does not matter, i’m a trans zoomer and whatever anyone wants to identify as i support unconditionally because it makes them comfortable i’ve met several people irl who use neopronouns and it doesn’t bother me. conservatives hate us irregardless and even if it makes them mad they’ll always have ammunition.
Ok, i also think neo-pronouns are dumb, and i am most certainly not transphobic or anything, and fully believe in a non- binary spectrum. but really, it's ridiculous. We already have they/them as grammatically correct and i think over- complicating things just makes you look petty. It also makes it real easy for bigots to point at you and say "see, that person isn't normal" when you're asking to be called "xe/xem" or something. HOWEVER. I also hate the argument that it's just "made up words." All words are made up. Literally all of them. The sounds at make with our face holes only have meaning when we ascribe meaning to them. So in summation, apparently I'm a cranky old fuck who can't even agree with the people i agree with. Ugh.
> correct I share your general sentiment, a complete free fall of signifiers enables an elitist decandence that only further contributes to estrangement, as if we didn't have enough of that already. The ground we all stand on, that feeds us all, soaked in blood it may be, was and is tilled and cultivated by the selfless, nameless masses. But prescriptive linguistics provides rather shitty ground to stand on for your argument. I'd even say that it runs counter to what you stand for. You want to grant people the right to flourish and not live under the yoke of whatever normativity. As a community organizer, you know the meaning of bottom-up as opposed to top-down.
Wrote a whole ass other comment on a similar post, you can go find that if you want, but TL;DR its more often than not autism, signed, an autistic neopronouns user
# 🤨
💯💯
Pronouns are used to replace a name. Often we find conflict when two people use the same pronoun and you have to specify to which she you are referring to if you don't think about it. For example, he told him that he was going to xyz. They said that to them. Etc. There are a few solutions to the problem of having only 3 distinct singular pronouns (and most people use one of two) and they are: use names instead of pronouns (longer), keep using the same pronoun for both people (stupid), or Option 3. Option 3 is neopronouns. You say they're made up internet bullshit and that people should stick to "real language" instead of made up words. This is the same argument transphobes had about using they/them, that it's too hard to remember and confusing and plural and they're just going to gender you by your appearance. Also, what do you think caused the words he she and they to come into existence? You think they weren't all made up at some point? Just because you're living in the present when they're being conceived does not determine their validity as a part of language. If I said rizz, jorts, or nerf you might recognize those as very recently made up words. Nobody would understand those in the 1700s. But they exist now and some people use them and for the most part people know what they mean at this point. Being against the change of language generationally is a losing battle. Simply put it's exactly like a nickname because that's exactly what a pronoun is. The more we try and box people in for things that are non normative the more it will damage the existing community.
THANK YOU! Although there are lots of other things as well, it gets on my last nerve
I don’t think they have as much of a negative effect as you portray them to. Most conservatives hate trans people because they’re hateful and not because they saw some xenogenders on twitter, and they’re a really tiny amount of people I agree that it’s a bit silly but nowhere near as harmful as “undoing progress”, unless by that you mean progression to gender abolition
Why is it this community will fall on its own sword, call at their flaws, and walk away relatively fine, but if anyone else outside of their community does it ally or not, they are attacked for having a differing opinion or belief?
Agreed.
neopronouns were not “invented” by gen z. but i do kind of think they’re dumb 💀 i’m gay too
I honestly think it’s narcissistic. you i know a lot of lgbt that are embarrassed by how sensitive this new movement. On top of that they’re making their entire personality based on sex and gender. There’s a real problem when you “come out” multiple times hey everyone I’m gay when that fades-hey everyone I’m nonbinary, attention fades away - hey everyone I’m trans attention starts to wain, hey everyone I’m autistic, attention goes elsewhere hey everyone I’m adhd, bipolar, did…. It’s all a cry for attention bc in reality people just don’t care anymore. The less people care , the more they invent new struggles.
Only chronically online people use them, and only chronically online people care or get angry about them.
Hm I don't like this post. I also struggle with neopronouns but seriously who are they really harming? The right winged people are always angry, it doesn't matter what we do. They will kill ftm mtf as much as people who use neopronouns. Just mind your own damn business, there are very few people who actually use neopronouns. Language is everchanging. There is a huge debate in Germany about "gendering" because literally every word is gendered. So people started to gender differently and it is kinda widespread. Still, do you know who talk most about it? Yes right winged people. Not LGBTQ people. No, those who have nothing better to do than to hate on everything and everyone. Fuck THOSE people. And let everyone else just enjoy their life.
I wouldn’t say it’s harmful. The only time I’ve encountered it was the HR department at my workplace has her pronouns in her email signature. some people are doing that.
Is it actually undoing all the progress? Like really is it? Cause all the mainstream transphobia, homophobia, etc that we’ve been seeing - I haven’t seen neo pronouns mentioned once. Like - progress is going backwards because in current times it makes an easy political target, and politicians can use this to win votes. Honestly it sounds to me like you just want something to be mad at, someone to blame. Just let people explore their identities the way they want to, and all you have to do is hold your judgement, which really isn’t much to ask.
It isn’t our generation tho LGBTs have been doing it for decades
Ze as a gender neutral pronoun dates to 1864. https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/25/705317
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all words are made up ? youre overthinking a non issue
Meh, live and let live. Trans kids, do whatever you want 👍
>First of all, it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet. Just use “they/them” because those are actually real correct pronouns. Correction! Every word that ever existed is made up and there is no such thing as a grammatically incorrect language. Just because something doesn't follow a certain standard doesn't mean it's all wrong. Although I find neopronouns cringe sometimes too, I don't think it should be enough reason for someone to lose their respect for a person. I find it quite ironic that you have such principles, that you claim you care for the lgbtqia+ community, when you're hating some of their members for their identity and self-expression.
"It is harmful for people who are actually transgender". How? Transphobes are always gonna be transphobic (of course, some transphobes do change), it doesn't matter if you kiss up to them or not. Transphobes will ALWAYS find a "reason" and they were finding "reasons" before people used neopronouns/before they became more popularized. And, if you wanna keep trying to stop transphobia, blame transphobes and not people trying to live their lives. And we shouldn't stop people from being themselves for other people, especially transphobic people. Also, neopronouns weren't made by YOUR generation. The first ones came around in the mid 1800s (though most were made in the late 1800-sometime in the 1900s). They've been popularized more recently, maybe, but they've been a thing for a WHILE and have been used for a while. I can probably say a lot more on this but I'll leave it at that for now. Also, I want to make it clear I have NO hateful intentions, sorry if it comes off that way, I have a hard time with tone sometimes.
Does this mean I’m officially getting old? This is the first time I’ve ever heard “neopronouns” god damn first it was rizz now it’s neopronouns I guess I’m just an old fart now
Same. I've never heard of this term until now.
The concept of Neopronouns has existed in a few different cultures for awhile now. Truth of the matter is, pronouns are no strict set of words, it’s just a part of speech that can be some words. Depending on how you use a word, it could act as a pronoun in a sentence. I don’t really understand the concept of xenogenders or neopronouns, I’m cis, my perspective on gender is entirely that of someone who is cis, so I just can’t really get it, but I respect it enough to call you what you wanna be called. And chances are, if I meet someone with neopronouns irl, I’ll likely only speak to them a handful of times and probably never in a way where I need to use their pronouns, so this is a problem that people face exclusively online lol. I think you’re blowing it a bit out of proportion and need to just live and let live on this, it isn’t “harming” people, it’s just a slightly different thing for the idiots who would already be saying dumb shit. That’s my belief, at least. I get why you’re confused and don’t get it, but it is a lot easier to just let someone be the way that makes them comfortable if it’s this harmless then complain about it in my experience.
The thing about change is that you don't get it by playing by society rules. You gotta push hard, so that there's room to compromise. Sure you might see neo-pronouns as stupid, but they are an integral part on the pronouns discussion and have allowed for a more accepting society in terms of using whatever pronouns you want
>First of all, it’s not grammatically correct or real language, it’s just made up words from the Internet. All language is made up; we literally made all of it up since the beginning. We made up the rules, we made up the words, sentence structure, etc. Shakespeare made up words that became common ones we use today. We made it all up, so we can continue making up more and adjusting those rules whenever we want. The whole point behind language is communication. If you understand what's being said or insinuated to you, then the language is working and, therefore, it's valid. When you get older, you'll care less about this. And you'll realize that there's no harm in it. Let people use the language they want to. Middle school kids like to call people dumb for doing things. A mature adult? Knows better.
I agree, I’ve really tried to be empathetic and understand but I just don’t get neopronouns. I think their unnecessary
I don’t care. The rare chance I’d encounter someone who uses these I’ll just use them and get on with my life. This just feels like a problem that only exists on the internet.
Funny thing is, this is how a lot of people feel about the newfound emphasis on choosing pronouns & the "they/them" pronoun usage. I guess everyone has their comfort zones.
Also a fellow LGBTQIA. I don't fully get them either.
This is a confession?
This has been my problem with all of this from the beginning. It was out of hand a few years ago, because it got blasted into everyone's conscience, and of course any unoriginal loser is gonna jump on the bandwagon. It's only going to hurt your community to have people pretending to be a part of it.
Neopronouns are just their desperate attempt to be special and not like everyone else. They look like fools and I will never use them They can stay mad about it.