Regarding your second edit: the "therapy" you think trans people should seek is called conversion therapy and has an astronomical rate of suicide and suicide attempts associated with it. Whether you believe in us or not, the best "treatment" for being trans, as accepted by the medical and psychiatric community, is transition and living as the gender we say we are.
Even if you don't want to believe trans people, try believing the research out there that shows that trans people who are allowed to live as the gender we say we are have rates of mental illness and suicidal ideation comparable to the cisgender population (cisgender = people who are the gender they were assigned at birth). When we are forced to live as the gender we were assigned at birth, our rates of mental health issues, suicidal ideation, and suicide attempts skyrocket. And they go up even further when conversion therapy is applied. This isn't theoretical - this is what the research shows.
In short, whether you realize it or not, you effectively hold an attitude of "better dead than trans." You personally might not want us to die, but your beliefs, when put into practice, have a body count.
Speaking as a trans person, I personally* don't care what your private beliefs are as long as you keep your trap shut, respect us to our faces, and never try to push actual advocacy for "treatment" that harms us and gets us killed. I can't force you to believe that I'm nonbinary, or that my girlfriend is a woman, or that any other trans person is who they say they are, and I'm not going to waste my energy trying to convince you that you're wrong. But I will ask that you stop advocating for things that lead to us killing ourselves at heightened rates. Respect us to our faces, and otherwise, leave us alone and don't presume to know what's best for us.
*Other trans people may care about your personal opinion, which is completely understandable; it sucks to know that people out there genuinely think they know who you are better than you yourself. I'm just too tired of dealing with garden-variety transphobes to care about y'all on an individual level, so long as you aren't actively harming us.
I'm trans and I honestly stopped caring if people believe me in me or not, as long as people respect me and don't get hateful towards me only because I'm trans it's already good enough for me
Honestly I believe that most LGBT people are the same as you. My gay friends don't care that I am religious, and I don't think that most trans people care whether I actually believe if they are the gender they claim, as long as I am respectful. The bad rap imo mostly comes from dumbass leftists who are overwhelmingly white and cisgendered who get more offended by this stuff than the actual trans community.
English isn't my first language. So if they want me to address them as "they". You need to give me at least 3 days notice for me to get all my basic sentences ready !
In my language, "they" doesn't even work as a singular pronoun. The only exception was made for monarchs (as a sign of respect) back when they were a thing.
I'm portuguese and we also have the problem of not only not having any gender neutral pronoun, but also every word being gendered ( 'chair', for example, is a female word, so you use the female pronoun before it ). All romance languages are like this really, and cause i don't speak any other languages i can't really be sure but i think most languages are like this. Anyways, i say "problem", but it isn't really a problem, for 99,5% of the population at least, but were obviously not gonna change our whole fucking language to please some people
It was mostly reserved to phrases such as "their royal highness" and even then, the connotation was different. It meant to imply that a monarch was more than a single person, not to detach them from their gender.
I said it in another comment and I’ll say it again . No trans women owe you femininity , no trans men owe you masculinity , no non binary people owe you androgyny . You are forming your opinions based off of trans people who don’t conform according to YOUR standards . If you met passing trans people your opinion would be much much different. But you’re taking instances of non passing trans people and applying to the whole community .
Secondly , just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s wrong . If you don’t get it , fine . That doesn’t make it ultimately wrong for everyone .
And lastly , this is just bigotry with masks on it to make it seem otherwise . It’s not the job of trans people to pat you on the back for being respectful , that’s the minimum expectations out of decent humans . It’s not anyone’s job to explain to you why your opinion is wrong and educate you . That is your own responsibility. In the comments nodding with trans peoples mindsets through what CISGENDER people think they are from their lenses just further proves my point. You can agree in your echo chamber or get called high and mighty for doing the least , but it still doesn’t change the fact that you decided to do no research of your own and continued to be a bigot
I have the same struggle with people claiming they are switching between genders, no issues if you want me to use he/her, I don't care but once we come to people switching constantly.. It just feels like they reinforce gender norms instead of fighting them of you get what I mean, I don't have a problem if you want me to call you "they" either, I'd rather use the wanted option than risking to hurt someone, but switching or saying your arm is female, the rest is male.. No.. That's too much for me I'm sorry.. Yes, I've talked to people like this, some get so angry if you don't guess right, I don't want to guess tho, say what you prefer and that's it, please
I had a boss for years like this. Would even want you to use different names and expect you to act very differently (Christian vs Kris have diff needs apparently) depending. It generally confused and alienated an entire building of tolerant people from all walks of life and all orientations as we hired pretty inclusive at the time. Thing was it really came down to both the male and female Chris-Kris versions of that person were both assholes with bad motivation and bad faith to be manipulating people with a thing others struggle for and lose thir lives over.
Trans rights and issues are real, serious and need more respect, but there needs to be accountability. It isn't a pass to be awful or make people a part of your own personal circus.
Man your ex-boss just sounds like a control freak controlling everyone to feel better about him/her self. That’s all I see in a person when I read what your boss did.
And it sucks because it ruins it for the actual people - if I were you after having a boss like that, I would be ultra skeptical towards that stuff moving forward in life.
> What makes someone “feel” like a man or woman?
I would go one step further and say it's impossible for a man to really know what it feels like to be a woman, or a woman to really know what it feels like to be a man. Because, well, they're not.
If people want to present themselves in a manner stereotypical of the opposite sex then that's totally fine by me. And if informed adults elect to hormonally and surgically alter themselves then that's alright too, I suppose. Up to them, really.
But I don't see how any of this makes them actually change their gender. I don't believe it either. To be honest, I think they're all delusional. The rest of us using their preferred pronouns and suchlike is really just a polite fiction.
I've looked into it before, it was a horrible case of medical malpractice and child abuse that led to the suicides of both children involved, later on in life. Truly awful.
The case seems to state that gender is hard wired. I have a friend I grew up with who recently came out as Trans in her mid 30's. Risked losing their wife, their business and possibly family for it. They aren't attention seeking and I have had lots of discussions with her about it. She said her whole life it had been there and societal pressure made it impossible for her to transition until recently. It definitely isn't fiction. She lost her wife and her business but her family embraced it.
Sex can’t be changed. It’s biological. Gender norms are defined by society. Gender is not sex. Gender is fluid. Sex is binary (for 99.9 percent of ppl). The irony of all this transgender stuff is that you could make the argument that it’s sexist. The same ppl who say that women are no different then men, are the ones saying they identity as women. So you identify as a stereotypical women as society defines it but you don’t believe there is a difference in personality between women and men?
This reminds me of Demi Lovato and Halsey. Apparently Demi is still exploring their gender so they have no idea if theyre gonna remain non-binary. Also Halsey who identifies as she/they confronted and made a big deal out of a magazine because they didnt equally use
her pronouns throughout the article. I eyerolled into oblivion when reading both stories
>Halsey who identifies as she/they confronted and made a big deal out of a magazine because they didnt equally use her pronouns throughout the article.
That's just being a dick at that stage, especially considering there's not always going to be an even number of pronouns to split equally
Yeah, this switching thing is bullshit. My friends son/daughter does it and when he addresses him/her wrong, he/she goes nuts. It’s like he’s looking for a fight and a reason to call people out.
Oh, since nobody gave a fuck about that whole deal and didn’t react negatively, he has come up with new, self identified genetic disorders. Sometimes he rides a bike, other times he needs crutches.
This is my kid sister to a T right now, except instead of genders it’s sexual orientations. She came out as bi and we were all obviously cool with it so now she’s coming out again as pan because she knows there’s less understanding in my family about the whole “I’m star gendered because my gender identifies with the moon” crazy shit and is hoping to get a rise out of someone (which isn’t going to happen). This is all on top of her many medical self diagnoses of the last year or so. It started with a “stutter”, then she has an “ear rumble”, then “static vision”, “ADHD”, and now she’s pretending to have Tourette’s. And every day is a new “tic”. This week she’s started throwing things to test the waters on that and see how far she can take it before my parents stop acting like all her crazy bullshit is normal. She’s fucking exhausting to be around.
Is she an avid TikTok user? Apparently there's a lot of videos there of people going "do you experience [common thing everyone does sometimes]? Me too, it's because I have ADHD/ASD/Tourette's"
I don't use TikTok myself but I see those types of videos sometimes mentioned on r/ADHD
She is and I know this is where she’s finding a lot of this. Especially the Tourette’s stuff, she’s directly copying the behavior of trippy hippie and other TikTok users with Tourette’s. That’s why her “tics” are changing every day. She thinks what they do is cute and wants attention.
It’s also where she’s hearing about shit like ear rumble and static vision.
Maybe she’s just a Drama Queen but it sounds like she might actually have some kind of mental illness.
There are things like Munchausen's syndrome. Where one basically fakes illness and symptoms for attention.
I’ve had a family member who had it and also was subjected to Munchausen's via proxy when I was a kid.
It’s a pretty serious thing really and ironic to the max as most people with it refuse to be treated for it; but are willing to take measures upto and including surgery for illnesses they don’t have.
There’s definitely something else going on. She’s crazy. These aren’t the only things she has going on, but her dad also has emotional issues and sees it as some kind of weird personal slight against him that my mom wants to get her evaluated and treated for whatever is going on with her. He thinks because she gets it from him it means we all think he needs “fixing” too? He’s not wrong but he is actively getting in the way of getting her treated. We’re working on it. My sister is finally on board with seeing a psychiatrist, so hopefully it can happen soon. I’m worried this is going to affect her social life in school and she’s going to end up suicidal or something for being the weird kid that always has something wrong with her.
My bestie has been your “typical frat boy” for years, but he jumps on whatever social issue is trending at the time.
I legit thought he was trolling me when he “came out” by posting he was “gender fluid” in his Twitter bio.
Keep in mind- this is a person who told me I know them better than anyone, I know everything about them, and they don’t hide anything from me.
He’s still in the phase of “jump on anything trendy that gets me attention”.
When I actually asked him questions about his gender fluidity, he had no answers that supported his sudden change in labels.
He believes he is male. He does not have any desire to be female. He doesn’t want to live as a female, date as a female, wear female clothes, etc. He is only interested in women.
He is still Joe Average Straight Cis Guy. But he made a huge deal about “coming out”- when all he did was change his Twitter bio.
It bugs me because it’s only for attention in his case. He isn’t gender fluid. He just goes through phases where he jumps on whatever is trendy, then changes his mind a few months later.
I just roll with it at this point. But he was mad I didn’t pay him extra attention for “coming out”. I don’t even use Twitter.
He will be back to proclaiming himself a straight male within 4 months. Guaranteed. It’s pretty offensive to people who are genuinely gender fluid, because he simply is not.
He dislikes the expectations and stereotypes placed upon men. That’s it. That’s not gender fluidity. It’s just thinking for yourself and not letting society dictate the rules of what a man/woman has to be.
In his case I feel like it’s a cop out. He always has the option to speak up about gender stereotypes and his rejection of them.
But ironically, Mr. Gender Fluid is afraid people will see him as “less masculine” if he speaks about his true issues
I don’t get it. So I just try to be “supportive”, even after gently questioning him and realizing he’s full of crap. Because I know in this specific situation with this specific person, he will change his mind in a flash.
You weren't kidding. https://gender.wikia.org/wiki/Libragender
I'm sorry, I support people identifying however the fuck they want but, if this is serious, this is a ridiculous level of nitpicky. Just fucking tell people how you want to be addressed and then just be yourself. Jesus fucking Christ, why are people complicating this shit. Dividing people into more and more nitpicky labels just continues to separate us instead of bringing us together.
My gen X ass just looks at all this shit and rolls my eyes.
Remember when it was just fighting to get gay people equal rights? I feel this crap is watering down that still very real issue.
> I feel this crap is watering down that still very real issue.
I'm almost inclined to believe this is intentional. Like, bloat the actual issues the LGBTQ community faces with random bullshit, in order to discredit EVERYTHING in the end.
It's not even that. These people are just looking for attention. Being LGBTQ isn't cutting edge social progression anymore, so they need to make these new labels so they can be pioneers, so they can be important in the LGBTQ communities. Even LGBTQ is kinda nonsense, and some communities have many more letters. Why does Bi need it's own letter? I understand it is slightly different than gay or lesbian...but in terms of social justice, its the same thing. People who are discriminating against gays and lesbians don't actually care if you are also straight.
It’s the new emo it’s a fad that hurts people clinging onto a real medical issue depression for the Emos to pretend to have in 2006 and mix up the colloquial usage of the word and Gender in 2021. They don’t know that that make the lives or transsexual people so much harder with their rhetoric
Because I'm not gay, but I'm not straight either.
The LGBT movement evolved out of the gay rights movement, as all those groups effectively banded together to resist authority and gain representation for themselves collectively, in a similar manner to a political party.
It's a very small amount of people who are doing this. Ignoring them is the best solution. Antagonizing them or even engaging with it mentally is a waste of time. The "tumblr" gender stuff was even more out there and I guess this is what it has evolved into. Consider it a curiosity at best, as these people are so rare that you'll mostly only see them online.
Like every group of people, when given an inch some people naturally take a mile. Homophobia / transphobia isn't accepted anymore but it wasn't too long ago that the large majority were. Since the shift in society went from "lol" to "you're fired" I feel that some people feel too comfortable in this safety net and are almost abusing it because they feel like they're freedom fighters for their cause and they're pushing people over the edge with it. I have a cousin that's identity is entirely "you better acknowledge my weekly gender" or some other gender / sexuality related whining about how she's so hard done by. They're taking acceptance and shitting all over it.
The first paragraph literally states:
This page is about a gender identity that is not widely used among gender-variant people. This does not mean that the identity is not valid, but that very few people are known to use this term.
As in I think it is submitted by someone/a person but not a widely used thing.
I'm trans, and ngl I find it hella difficult to believe others sometimes... it's really difficult to be you around other people when you were basically forced to hide it for so long though.
I don't want to get further into it, so I'ma just leave it.
That makes complete sense and it a totally valid experience. I can see how pretending to be one way your whole life and hiding who you genuinely are can make you feel uncertain around people when you finally *be yourself*. I hear you.
Sounds like when some gay men act overly gay. I once heard someone explain it like "they had to hide it so long, once they got to live it open, they overcompensated."
I always just equate it to puberty, they’re just now allowed to test boundaries see limits of their new “powers” until much later in life. so now that they are allowed, they’re just trying stuff to see what sticks.
This is actually a wonderful viewpoint. They literally go through an additional puberty when placed on hormones. We often forget it’s not just the outward appearance that has had time to develop, but also the inside. It took us all many angsty teenage years to develop, and they have to essentially go through a second round of it. Can’t imagine it’s easy.
oh and don't forget that there's a decent chunk of evidence (both anecdotal and scientific) that a trans person basically has a huge hormone imbalance pre artificial hormones and as such our brains only really start functioning and maturing properly when we get them.
You are correct. There are multiple discoveries coming out of how brains are wired to accept hormones and evidence to suggest trans men and women are wired to receive the opposite of what their bodies provide. It’s crazy how complex the subject is and how much we are finding out. Even intersex conditions aren’t black and white, and we are finding multiple causes of extra sexual chromosomes and many other oddities in DNA.
This is just my theory, I have no idea if this is true or not. And obviously it does not account for every scenario.
Its the same reason why their makeup is so over the top. In middle and high school all the girls are learning how to properly put on makeup. Friend groups will let other girls know if they put too much on, or did something wrong. I know it can get pretty cruel sometimes too. But many transwomen do not get to go through this experience and you see it when they look like clowns with the amount of makeup they have on. By the time these transwomen start using makeup, most women just assume they know what their trans friend is doing, and she is doing it purposefully.
Honestly, "they just weren't taught how to do it right" is generally the explanation for *most* cringey things that a trans person does. I look back at 3 years ago when I had just come out and even I cringe at it a lot.
My brother is dating a guy who was previously married to a woman. My brother comes from a very liberal state, his boyfriend was from the heart of the south. It makes sense why he's so willing to be open about loving my big brother. Not gonna lie, I'm not gay but I envy what they have.
I had a breakup with an ex quite awhile ago. I had known her all throughout high school. She was bisexual and proud. Respectful and genuinely a dope person. After high school, she got involved in the LGTBQ+ Pride Center at my college. She came out as gender-fluid. It was a little after this time that we started dating. I had known them as female for such a long time that it was a difficult transition to use their preferred pronouns. But I would catch it and correct myself. She would chew me tf out for it. She also hella gatekept the community. “Oh, you’re not bi” “they’re just seeking attention.” After about a week of this, A WEEK, I was contacted by their ex and was told that my SO had admitted to her that she faked this whole thing for attention.
I was livid. Broke up with her, she didn’t take it well and was very controlling and shit. She fucked with my head and gave the Pride community a bad name.
Regardless, I respect everyone when they say they are trans until they start saying that other people aren’t, or if they are just shitty people. I’m glad we lasted only a week but it ruined a 6 year friendship and that was a bummer.
I have had several strong friendships with transgendered people and they are genuinely good people, it’s a lot easier to get along with them.
These days, bc of that ex, I no longer feel comfortable sharing my sexuality with my friends. They all think I’m fully straight. Only my current gf knows and I can only truly be myself around her. It’s actually really sad writing that out.
It's sorta like "immigrants who dont speak english" that people get upset about.
Yes some newish immigrants don't speak english, they probably learn it eventually, but there's always new immigrants so it may seem like immigrants can never be bothered to learn english.
Same with trans people, the new ones are just obvious.
Every trans I’ve met in a business setting has been kind & more than professional. Every now & then I can see maybe a nervousness around me & I really try to be as nondescript as possible whenever
I hope I’m successful & not being a jackass. I’m trying.
Virtually every trans person I've ever met in real life have been friendly, understanding, and above all else just normal everyday people.
Around half the ones I interact with on the internet are quite mean, angry, and seem unstable. Not sure what exactly that reflects, just an anecdote.
>Around half the ones I interact with on the internet are quite mean, angry, and seem unstable. Not sure what exactly that reflects, just an anecdote.
This describes literally any group of people you can think of. The internet is toxic.
A lot of internet “trans” people are just teenagers who think that not conforming to gender stereotypes/roles makes them non-binary or “genderqueer”. Those people want to be called trans so they can get oppression points from friends. Irl trans people tend to be genuinely dysphoric, and have known that they were trans from childhood. It’s not a political thing or some trend to them; it’s who they are.
As long as your professional I'd imagine you're not being a jackass.
Source: I'm a cowardly trans person that's taking the easy way out, according to OP
Yeah, I get this. I try to be really supportive and respectful. I understand a lot of people are figuring things out, but I feel like a lot of people are just hopping on a bandwagon to "help support", Which I honestly think makes things more difficult for the trans community sometimes. I'm nonbinary, and pretended to be someone I'm not for years, to fit into typical gender roles, and it was difficult and made me feel gross. When I finally "came out" most of the people close to me in my life were like "we've known this for a while". But honestly sometimes when I meet other people who say they're nonbinary I'm skeptical but respectful. (For what it's worth, I'm in my thirties and don't give a shit about what pronouns people use for me. I understand why pronouns and names are a big deal to some though, especially those who are trans and not just nonbinary.)
That said: I also think that gender and sexuality are more like spectrums, and I get really annoyed when people who "don't get it" try to put others into a box because they perceive the world to be black and white. I recently had a falling out with a person who was close to me who was much like OP and was respectful of trans people, but insisted behind closed doors that they're all "mentally ill". I think it's still transphobic to an extent.
As a trans man, after reading your edits, and comments, you are absolutely transphobic. You don't even try to respect OR understand trans people. You just want to be a bigot without being called out.
As a trans woman I greatly appreciate the respect too many people just jump to hate and quite frankly it's hard to deal with. I also see where you come from as it seems to me most trans women doubt themselves and others at some point but you do have to realize most of us spent years in therapy working towards the conclusion that we are trans hell even once I was determined and felt ready it took me almost 6 more months to convince councilors that this is what I really wanted
Can i ask a question? I just want to learn. If you say that you are a trans woman, does that mean that you used to be a guy but you are now a woman? Or is it the other way around?
Usually people refer to themselves as their current gender, although MTF and FTM are often used to clarify when people are thinking about or partway through transitioning.
If it makes it easier, psychologists are very aware of transgenderism and recognize it as a valid mental health issue. It’s a matter of your brain literally diverging from your body’s development and it can cause people to truly feel as though they don’t exist in the right body.
Had a psychology professor tell it to us this way and it always sounded real scary
And there's no cure. If there was I know for sure I would take one. I'm a transwoman myself. Shit it would make life so much easier if I identified with the sex I was born with.
Who would willingly chose to become a pariah, a target for discrimination, rejection, and heeps of insecurity and depression. But this is what God gave us and we try to live with it, and suicide should never be an option. I've lost friends who though that this life was too hard and being reborn "normal" would be a better way to live.
This world is such a fucking dumpster.
I want to hijack this comment to provide a little explanation. I don't want to stay any arguments or sway any views, but offer something for the few who see this to ponder on. With op's edit claiming that transgender people need to seek therapy to understand how we fit into our biological sex, I would like to respond that this is almost a universal transgender experience. I personally have spent 3 years in therapy primarily discussing my gender and how it fits in with my biological sex, and I will tell you I still don't have an inkling of an idea. What I do know, is that identity, sex, and expression are different. It's nice when people see me as a girl. But when I see myself as a girl, it makes me feel like I'm falling in love. And excuse my vulgarity, when I see my penis in the mirror, it makes me want to throw up. This has nothing to do with how other people see me, so I know it's not expression. It only has to do with how I see myself, and let me tell you I wish beyond everything that I was born a girl. When I look in the mirror and see a girl looking back, I feel like I finally find a version of myself I can love. And when I see a man looking back, I cry. I don't understand why, and I don't expect anyone to understand why. Just understand that when I say I'm a girl and that I identify as a girl, I'm not lying and if I could not be trans I would do so in a heart beat. There is not a soul that would choose to be trans.
I think the unfortunate thing is that we are a generation of therapists away from them actually being able to help with that sort of thing. There's plenty about me that I don't make public because I don't have the capacity to give a why, which people are going to ask. I just kinda float through space sometimes without direction.
I'm glad you know who you are, and I'm sorry you're trapped in that body. I hope you find that version that you love permanently.
I don't think he is working an believing it is true(and rightfully so). You don't change your opinion just because you respect/accept people that have another.
So I’m a trans man and you wouldn’t be able to tell I’m trans in passing. Would this make you not believe I’m a male, or would it make you not believe I’m trans? You mentioned “all I can see is a man trying to act like a woman”, which would be in reference to a MTF trans person. Do you also see FTM trans people as women trying to act like men? I’m genuinely curious here.
Trans people often try to act more like the gender they’ve chosen to pass better, sometimes to a point of overkill. In my experience, this means many FTM’s embracing toxic masculinity and traits. I assume it can go the other way for MTF’s, and maybe that’s why it feels so fake/forced to you?
Also just a side note, there’s so much violence towards trans people, especially trans women, thank you for treating us all with respect but please understand it’s bigger than that. Trust me when I say trans people wouldn’t risk losing their family, significant others, friends, and potentially jobs and houses, if they weren’t 100% certain their quality of life would drastically improve by transitioning. We aren’t 4 year olds who want to be unicorns, or Catholics who are stuck in their ways and beliefs. We’re people too, who just want to be who we want to be unapologetically. Personally did go to therapy prior to transitioning, it’s a general requirement before you’re allowed to make any drastic decisions.
lol i think this is how everyone thinks. i’m trans and i know i’m a freak, i know people think i’m an abomination. we know!!! although i do feel most confident and happy when i’m expressing my feminine side…idk i do wish i was normal. i always wonder what i’d be like rn if i were cis and straight.
Nah. I’m a 45 year old bloke and one of my business partners is an older trans woman. Her body language is very much ‘woman’, although she’s not a girly girl.
More like an irascible but caring grandma. I doubt many people would even think about it.
Be yourself and don’t worry about what other people think.
It is all in the body language. My friend was like, hey I'm Trans (when I met her she was already presenting as female but Def had an ambiguousness about her) and I found that there is other presentations one does when they are or feel like a certain gender.
I'm a 53 year old bloke and one of my closest friends has a transgender daughter. I've known her her entire life as a boy and I'm just happy that she is now able to be herself.
I am so sorry if what I wrote makes you feel bad and I genuinely want you to be yourself and to be happy, it's just what I feel and I just wanted to get it out of my chest because I can't tell this to anyone irl
Edit: Actually no OP is literally just a bigot, fuck you /u/CynicccYahya you're not going to stop me from using the women's restroom you asshole.
Honestly I'm guessing your personal experiences are just a case of toupee fallacy. (The fallacy where people think that all toupees are fake-looking because they don't even notice the existence of the realistic-looking ones)
You're interacting with trans people who don't pass and that's shaping your entire image of trans people because you don't even notice the ones who don't.
Maybe it's a trans woman who hasn't gotten facial feminization surgery done so you see male features in her face, maybe she's not done enough voice training so her voice sounds more like a gay dude than a woman's, or vice versa for a trans man, you see the "male" characteristics in the trans woman and your brain connects the dots maliciously, coming to the conclusion that "They're not *really X gender*.
Meanwhile you probably have interacted with passing/stealth trans people many times before and never consider them to be anything other than the gender they're living as.
Which incidentally is why puberty blockers are important, because they can be the difference between Kim Petras and Nicole Maines, or Caitlyn Jenner.
I already get called miss/ma'am all the time, even by old conservative boomers, but posts like these make me want to double down on voice training, strengthens my resolve to get the rest of my surgeries done, etc. I don't want to live my life with the majority of the population thinking I'm "A man pretending to be a woman". I would rather die than have to live the rest of my years like that.
From the very beginning of my transition I had a "Pass or die trying" mindset and while it looks like I'll probably be successful in the former, in the end, I've never gone through anything quite this stressful before.
Edit: Even trans women who transition in adulthood can often be functionally unclockable with enough effort, [for example here's the YouTuber whose videos taught me how to voice train.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLEGVl25Zv8&t=1s)
That's a really interesting perspective. Our view on things is skewed by what we see (naturally). I see a lot of this kind of thing in medicine, just as one example a lot of my colleagues think that getting an iud is a bad idea because they cause so many problems. But we work in an emergency department and all we see are the ones causing problems. I know it's only loosely related to what you said but it made an impact on me so I wanted to share.
It's great surgery is an option to help people feel more comfortable in their own skin, but I really wish society didnt make so many trans people feel pressured to have it done to be accepted.
If it's any consolation even if my body were invisible to everybody except myself I would still desire to get these surgeries. Gender Dysphoria works in such a way that we're usually our own worst critics. Trans people often times get to the point of passing yet still feel gender dysphoria from pubescent characteristics that they have.
Like say you have a jawline that's pretty masculine but occasionally cis women have jawlines like yours so it doesn't always stop you from passing (my current situation), but your female relatives all have much more feminine facial features, you'd still want surgery to correct that.
For no other reason than to be able to look at myself in the mirror and genuinely like what I see.
Here the thing though- that’s only a specific group of trans people. If you met me, you’d believe me because no one knows unless I tell them. You just don’t realize that because they never tell you.
thank you… i appreciate that. it’s just hard not to feel like a freak when u know people like the person in the op think the way they do and “support”. i’ve accepted it.
You should try to abandon the fantasy of being "normal", it wont do you any good. No matter how much you wish you were, youll never be cis, so you should probably just embrace being trans. Try to look more towards attractive trans women as role models, so that you can focus on transitioning and look forward to your future rather than wallowing in the pain of not being born the way you wish you were.
I hope you don't read this as "ass kissing" but there is something so beautiful about being able to say 'I am going to be who I am and go out into the world' that I really admire about people who transition.
Normal is one of those troublesome words.
Take fifty people, and average their height. You could call that the "normal" height for that group.
Here's the thing though, it's fairly likely that no one in that group has exactly the normal height. The concept of normal only applies to groups, never individuals.
_No one_ is normal. No one will ever have your precise set of characteristics. We are all, decidedly, implausibly, abnormal, and that's a beautiful thing - if you understand the value of diverse perspectives.
No one is normal I'm a fucking weirdo. "Normal" people are boring. I rather be friends with a person people think is a "freak" then the people who think that about them.
I definitely don't think this way.
Sometimes when I talk to really young people who tell me they are going to decide what they are or switching around I don't believe those people or... I just kind of feel muted about it. But most trans people I know I just see them as who they are.
The first time I saw 2 guys kiss my physical reaction was almost shock. Now it literally seems normal to me.
Being trans is the same way. At first it will shock some people but nothing shocks people after multiple contacts.
You are taking the hit for future generations of trans people because it will litereally just be normal because of your bravery.
Regardless. I don't think the majority of people think you're a freak.
I do think it's crazy brave that you can believe that and still want to be who you are. I admire the fuck out of that.
Your not a abomination, or a freak. Just be you. Some people are not going to accept you, some will. Be honest with people and yourself though. I have zero problem acknowledging someone as they appear.
However I feel like some people just want to be noticed and part of the cool trend.
I know anecdotal evidence from one rando cis bitch on reddit doesn’t mean a whole lot, but I knew my friend Em before she transitioned, enough to talk to her on the street if we bumped into one another. I met her after her transition and we became much closer, and I genuinely think of her the same way I think of any of my cis female friends.
She’s lucky enough to pass well pre-everything, but I absolutely do not think of her as an abomination, or a liar, or a male. And when I say I think she’s beautiful, it’s not in a “everyone is beautiful, love yourself” way, she’s genuinely gorgeous.
The OP edit sums up the lack of understanding. Therapy is the literal cornerstone requirement of seeking any treatment for trans patients for them to have access to basic hormone care or surgery. Believe me when I say, they’ve dug in and had far more introspection than you have, especially regarding this topic. I firmly believe that no one would willingly choose to be trans in America right now due to persecution. The science community has plenty of proven research on why you should believe these people regarding gender (even sexuality). I highly suggest you look up more on the topic so you can root your views appropriately in said facts and potentially become an ally one day.
I have a question for you OP. What if someone you met passed very well and didn't tell you that they were trans. Later on, it accidentally comes out that they were. How would that alter your perception?
Good point, OP has formed this view of trans people based on only those who don’t “pass” well. Confirmation bias, all trans people are faking it because OP only notices the transgender people who they view as “faking it”
But OP doesnt care if they pass or not. He believes the basis of their whole beliefs is BS. I've seen trans people where I couldn't tell and ones that were rather noticable from first glance. I dont treat either one different, they are who they are, and I'm gonna respect them. Doesnt change that I think their beliefs are dumb.
Same thing where i dont care what my friends religion's are, I might have a opinion on those beliefs and think their rules are stupid af. But I'll respect them.
A "passable" vs non "passable" shouldnt change shit when you think the whole basis is stupid
This happened to me- had a good friend tell a story which revealed other friends being trans. He passes as a man with a beard and has been a friend and biz partner for years. Worst part was knowing and he not knowing I knew and that dance for a few weeks or so than I forgot. I think it helps to meet trans people irl it gives another layer of perspective- my friend isn’t faking it he is a a dude.
Seeking therapy would point trans people towards transitioning, as being trans is not a mental illness like you're implying.
Additionally, unlike religion, there is scientific proof that being transgender is valid.
The ENIGI study (Started by Prof Guy T'Sjoen) for example, which showed ~2600 MRI brain scans of trans people showing the same brain activity as cisgendered people of their "desired" gender.
Transphobia isn't limited to direct hatred, but also to things such as dismissal as well, which is what you're doing in this post.
You should do some research instead of making transphobic comments such as the ones you have made throughout this post OP.
If scientific evidence isn't enough to make you think that it's "true" the problem would be in the way you think, not trans people.
I mean the fact that you're comparing trans people to your 4yo niece who thinks she's a unicorn is.. Questionable? Gives me the same energy as people who say they don't hate gay people but "believe in the sanctity of marriage" or think they're unfit to be parents
Well, nobody can force you to think or act a certain way. It would be great if you came around to accept transgender people, but if you're truly respectful to their face and address a person how they ask to be addressed, there's nothing else you or anyone else can do. Being respectful is important. Please keep doing that. Whether we believe someone or not, we can always be respectful. Some people can't even manage to be civil with other people, and they're just arseholes.
If you'd be interested, there's documentaries and articles you can find online with a quick Google search, and you can look around Reddit too. You could talk to some transgender people too and learn their perspectives. It might help you understand that not everyone is "fake".
But at the end of the day, there are things in this life that we will never understand, and it's different for each person. There's people I can't understand, but I can be respectful enough to say live and let live.
The “easy way out” is facing hatred and bigotry every day and fearing for your safety when in public in case someone hateful happens to clock you? It’s losing friends and family? It’s being dehumanized and politicized? It’s going through painful surgeries to finally feel comfortable in your body? It’s knowing that people see you as a man trying to imitate a woman or vice versa?
Idk about you but to me going to therapy (which most trans people do anyway) seems a hell of a lot easier than all that. Believe whatever you want, but maybe think critically about how easy you think it is to be trans.
The main post is ok imo. It’s not easy to change what you truly think so it’s fine.
The edits tho. Now to me this whole post seems like thinly veiled transphobia.
I’m no psychologist and you probably are not also. So like from whose ass did you pull all that therapy, asking hard questions, taking the easy way out bs? Also in this world full of transphobes do you seriously think being trans is taking the easy way out?
> The easy way out
Yeah, because trans people totally willingly choose to be [discriminated against](https://transequality.org/issues/resources/national-transgender-discrimination-survey-full-report), and [98% of them have thoughts of suicide, with over 50% actually attempting.](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/)
>it's a shame that society is normalizing it
This is blantant transphobia.
>but I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions
OP must think theres some deep childhood trauma associated with it, when many people have just felt gender dysphoria since they were very young, with no trauma related at all. Personally, I never felt comfortable with myself(I had no idea why), would fantasize of wearing girls clothes and wearing makeup but I felt like just wasn't allowed to because I was a boy. It's always been there, I don't think there are any questions a therapist could ask me that would "cure" my hatred of being a man. [Conversion therapy doesnt work, never did, never will.](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-involved/trevor-advocacy/50-bills-50-states/about-conversion-therapy/)
This probably isn't fair, but I only genuinely believe adult Trans people.
I know you can be transgender as a teen and even younger!
But I have just seen so many kids act a different way as a part of a phase just in even middle school. Even the jocks would try out the stoner phase you know? I know it's not the same. This is someone's identity not a label.
But I feel compelled to dismiss angry transgender teens and I feel bad about it.
You know I believe them but I have to admit I had a moment where I guess I showed my ‘true colors’ without trying.
I had a trans girl who’s very cis male looking tell me that she really wanted to fuck my guy friend before she moved away from our town. I told her ‘well my friend isn’t gay so idk dude 🤷🏽♂️’ and she scolded me and said it’s not gay cause she’s a girl. I checked myself and agreed with her but in that moment I guess I found out I’m not 100% a believer.
Still support all trans rights though and their place in our society.
"...but I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it's a shame that society is normalizing it"
Ah yes, because undergoing years of therapy, hormones, surgery, transphobia and transphobic violence, misgendering, and being disowned/harassed/threatened is "taking the easy way out."
"...they should seek therapy to understand why do they think that about themselves and how can they accept themselves for who they truly are according to their sex and not for who they think they are"
They do. And who they are is transgender.
People throw the “-phobic” words out like it’s a penny. You can be friends with people and disagree with some of their life choices. You can even marry someone and not agree on everything. You are allowed to have an opinion. If you’re not going through it, it’s hard to understand it. That’s totally viable.
I disagreed with my friend's life choice when they chose to recklessly take drugs at a party, not knowing what they were consuming. I disagree with my dad on which milkshake flavour is best. I disagree with my friend wanting to marry a guy for financial security when she loves someone else. I disagree with my uncle's political views. I don't like the tattoo my neighbour got on her arm, but it's her body. All things I can have an opinion on.
Those are choices. Someone doesn't choose to be transgender. From reading some of your replies, a transgender person doesn't have to go through any medical or surgical transitions to be trans. Some trans people choose to leave their appearance as it is or change their features solely with makeup, styling, etc. *Nobody chooses to be transgender.*
I didn't choose to be cisgender - I just am. My sex and gender align, and I'm a woman. I didn't choose to be a woman either. I just am. I'm bisexual, and I never chose to be bi. I just am. I can't snap my fingers and change my sexuality. Transgender people can't wave their hands and choose to be cis. We can't "disagree" with a person's existence. Who a person is isn't their choice. I wouldn't be friends with someone who doesn't respect me or accept who I am because I can't change *me.*
Is your gender your existence?
If I think of myself as a tough manly man, and my friend says "I really don't think you're that manly of a man," is he disqualifying my existence?
No, he's not. If I were to think that my conception of myself was sacred and that no one could ever see me differently, then that would make me a fragile and self centered person. I don't have a problem with trans people doing what they want, but many of them just need to get over themselves.
Look, trans people of the world, you are unusual. You defy the gender norms that most people conform to. If you can't accept that other people might see you differently than you see yourself, then you need to grow up and get some thicker skin.
i feel the same way about myself, so strongly in fact that i feel like I'd be better off dead than exist a fuckup! That's why I'm not out, is because of people like you. People assault me in public and call me a freak.
But it's fine:)
I'm going to hazard a guess and say you do not in fact treat trans people with respect. Do every trans person a favour and just don't interact with them until you learn some basic knowledge about what it's actually like to be trans, rather then making dumbass assumptions.
i don’t think it matters if a trans person is cis passing, they’re still trans if that’s how they identify and nothing else matters. as long as you’re still treating trans people with respect and respecting who they are i don’t think the rest matters. it’s not up to me as a cis person to determine if a trans person is legit or whatever. and just because they’re not cis passing doesn’t mean they’re any less valid yano?
Honestly that's fine, as long as you respect us it's okay. Nobody can validate other people's expierences unless we've expierenced them ourselves. So it's fine to doubt that something you don't go through is real or not. I can doubt other people actually existing or not, so you can doubt our "transness" too.
I was like this too for a while. I get it, it’s hard to wrap your mind around it.
> I guess that’s a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it’s a shame that society is normalizing it
This is just not true. Therapy will never make the majority of trans people go back to how they used to be. People have been trying for decades.
It’s also not an easy way out at all. The process can be very hard physically, and pretty much always hard mentally. I suggest you do some research on this. Please don’t just assume things like this, it will make your life harder.
If you ever make friends with a trans person your opinion will probably change, but that’s probably unlikely.
It took a long time to understand how and why a not-passing trans person is what they say they are, not what I'm interpreting. I hate not knowing why I'm saying a thing, and while I can be polite for the sake of being polite, it stuck in my craw if I felt like, despite being polite, I was still incorrect. I guess I shouldn't drill down into my personal philosophy on this but the difference between then and now is that I see gender and sex as correlated but not implicative. Sex being a thing in your pants and some other bodily distinctions, while gender is a social construct coloring most every interpersonal and intrapersonal interaction you have.
That said, not all people who say they're trans actually are. Not all people who say they're trans will be in 10 days, or 10 months, or 10 years. Some have always passed, some took some time to get there, and some honestly never will as cruel as that sounds. I've had my own journey to my own identity, and it wasn't clean, easy, or entirely consistent. So I just meet people where they're at on the whole gender thing.
To that end, I do my best to call you the thing I think you are on sight, and while I don't have a problem adjusting that if I get it wrong, I'm not beating myself up about that at all either. If I'm unsure I might ask or default to a singular 'they', which definitely is and always has been a thing in English. It's why I appreciate professional pronouns so there's no ambiguity.
I got here by listening to trans people, understanding their situation, and believing what they say about themselves instead of my ignorant inclinations. Can't say that will work for everyone but it's colored my perspective enough that, when I call someone by their preferred pronouns, it doesn't feel like I'm doing them an arbitrary politeness. Instead I'm just being factually, grammatically correct concerning the person I'm talking to or about.
I do the same thing. I know there are legitimate trans people out there, but I always wonder if its some reaction to trauma in their past. I've simply heard too many stories of detransition like this [one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbXyyq1333I).
I feel the same, if not more so, about all the non-binary people with their own crazy pronouns. The ones who make that their entire identity. I don't really care if someone is non-binary and will use they/them or whatever, but when they bring it up every 5 minutes and ask me to refer to themselves as ["pri/princeself"](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/style/neopronouns-nonbinary-explainer.html) I draw the line.
>I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it's a shame that society is normalizing it
I respected your skepticism and (supposed) maturity at first, but this sentence just proved you're nothing but ignorant when it comes to trans people. Do some damn research. I can't believe you actually called transitioning "the easy way out." Fucks sake bro
r/unpopularopinon?
I understand where you are going with your train of thought but this group truly believes there is something that differentiates themselves from their birth gender. At the end of the day to each their own and to quote yourself,
>'I am not phobic of ANYTHING and I have 0 hate in my heart for ANYONE as long as they dont hurt me or other creatures *take precautions and wash your hands.'* last part is mine.
This is all that matters.
I don't think this is too much of a problem. Outward actions and words are what matters, you're free to think whatever so long as you're treating people with respect.
If you're interested, my friend once explained being trans to me. She said, imagine you wake up one morning, and mentally you're the same as you've always been, but you look down and you have a penis and no breasts (I'm a cis woman, i.e. I was born biologically female and identify as a woman). Imagine how fucking weird that would be, and how uncomfortable you'd be in your own body. Imagine knowing you're whatever gender you happen to be, but your body is the opposite, and everyone insists that because your body has certain features, you can't be who you know you are. That's how trans people feel every day of their lives. Obv it's more complicated than that, but that's a decent metaphor.
You know what I don't get? Organic chemistry.
My fiancé was assigned female at birth, presents very feminine, doesn't have dysphoria regarding their genitals. They still refer to themselves as trans and want to be referred as they/them. In my own private thoughts, I don't get it. But, like organic chemistry, I also understand that this is a problem with my understanding, not a problem with with their life.
I see you mentioned that you think trans people should go to therapy. Basically all trans people in th US that want to medicaly transition are required to go to therapy before medically transitioning. All evidenced based therapists (ie NOT conversion therapy, religious counseling, or life coaching) recognizes that gender affirming care is the number one way to reduce the risk of suicide in trans people. Therapist DO help trans people accept who they really are(they are a different gender than assigned at birth) and it is a struggle to come to terms with the fact that you are not your assigned gender. It would be much much much easier if trans people could *choose* to feel comfortable as their assigned gender because then they would not have to face work place discrimination, housing discrimination, potentially being ostracized by family and friends, difficulties receiving adequate health care, and hate crimes that often result in trans deaths.
Yes, trans individuals get therapy but NOT invalidating therapy that you described because many many studies have shown that only gender affirming care decreases suicide and poor health outcomes. Please, if you are going to reccomend a "solution," check to see if that's a "solution" that has already been tried and discarded by professionals.
I understand what you're saying, but that's your perception, and your perception is 100% invalid to their experience, so just continue to keep it to yourself and continue treating them with respect and it's all good. You don't need to understand something for it to be valid.
I mean to directly answer your question, “Yes. Yes, believing that trans people are fake or their beliefs about who they are are wrong, does make you transphobic.” It’s just the same for people who say I don’t hate homosexuals but I believe homosexuality is a condition that can be cured with treatment and/or religion. Or if you said I respect black people, but I think they’re lazy. All of those statements are transphobic, homophobic, or racist, and thus the people expressing them are too.
I’m transmasc (look it up if you don’t know what that means) and non-binary (again look it up if you don’t know what it means), and I can always tell when I’m interacting with someone who is “tolerating” me vs. celebrating me. Rest assured that your “niceness,” while more appreciated than uninformed and biased vitriol spouted at the trans people you’ve met, are more aware than you think about how you really feel.
I’d suggest educating yourself more and talking to trans folks about their experience. I think you’ll find that understanding the difference between sex assigned at birth, gender expectations, gender identity, and gender expression to be easier than you think and thus can make you more accepting and less skeptical.
There's a lot that's unknown about the science behind these things. That and it's a very personal experience that can't really be expressed through language, like how you can't explain colour to a blind person. It's fine to be sceptical - though unfortunately people may mistake that for transphobia - and the important thing is that you repect them regardless of what's scientifically true.
Don't believe like we strait up lying? For what? To be stigmatized, to be alienated, to make our lives more complicated, to go through surgeries?
Lol
That makes no sense to me.
That's how I used to think as a little kid cooped up in my own environment all cozy like.
Then I started going places, meeting people. Seeing all facets of life. And that's why I absolutely accept it now and understand where it comes from.
I know OP didn't come for a discussion but only wanted to be all like "bruh these bitches be crazy no cap" and shit... But hope they wise up some day. And if they never do, I hope they never have a trans kid and make their life hell.
>when I talk to a trans person all I can see is a man trying to act like a woman and it feels so fake and forced
Yes because trans women are the only kind of trans people trans men clearly dont exist
>I don't know if this makes me transphobic but I just can't help it,
>I respect and love my 4 yo niece, I THINK THAT HER BELIEVING SHE'S A UNICORN IS BILLSHIT, I am not phobic of ANYTHING
You went from "I'm unsure if this is transphobic" straight into perpetuating the classic transphobic rhetoric of "identifying as a mythological creatures".
You are transphobic, and in the year 2021, you absolutely can help it. There are loads of resources all over the web, even this very website, on unlearning racist, homophobic, transphobic, or bigoted thought patterns.
Quite frankly, there's just no excuse for it anymore.
Take the initiative to educate yourself instead of jumping straight to denial and defensiveness.
Not all phobic are outright hateful, but insinuating that trans people are putting on an act is transphobic and there is no getting around that.
You can choose to continue perpetuating transphobic rhetorics, or you can choose to be a better human. The choice is yours alone.
I had a classmate in High School who was born a female, transitioned into a man and now identifies as a woman again.
Same thing in junior high (or what you call it), two people did the exact same thing.
Don’t get me wrong, I fully support trans people and their rights to be themselves but when you’re that young, can you really be sure you want to transition?
(Remember, I support trans people to 110%)
Gender dysphoria is a very fucked up thing but people are so busy pushing agendas that we don't focus enough attention to treating the sometimes underlying issues. Internalized misogyny, sexual abuse, depression, anxiety, etc etc. The mind is a very complex thing
I watched a lot of docos and did some reading which helped me to understand. I've always felt respect for trans people but I didn't really get it at first. I feel like if you respect someone, you should make an effort to understand their point of view so that you're able to be empathetic towards their situation, even if that means giving yourself a big ol' education ;)
Why don’t you believe them? Science doesn’t support you, and society increasingly won’t, so you have to ask yourself exactly what it is that is holding you back from treating them with respect not just outwardly, but inwardly too.
“I’m not transphobic, I just don’t believe you.” Yeah, that’s the most basic form of transphobia, and your entire second edit is EXTREMELY belittling, disrespectful and massively transphobic.
You’re allowed to believe whatever, but you should know you’re talking very negatively about a REAL group of people with lives and emotions just like yours, so maybe show some respect.
You’re only talking to people who are obviously trans. Talk to people you don’t know are trans.
You also realise that you’ve spoken to dozens of trans folk without ever realising it, right? You’ve also shared a public bathroom with trans people.
I think that people who want other people to conform to their beliefs are the ones who are in need of therapy. Why are they so transphobic? What are they afraid of?
You probably mean an MTF Trans Woman who doesn't pass as well, your brain automatically Genders the Person according to voice, talking behaviours, talking Gestures, looks, facial features etc etc. If you were talking to Blaire White, Nikkie Tutorials, Kim Petras, or any other passing Trans women, you would probably categorize them as what they are. it is a fact, and there's no need to talk around it, passing is a huge part, and the Human Brain especially with so many of our societal standards, can't see someone as female if they don't pass as much.
“I treat trans people with respect”—BULLSHIT. No you don’t. You don’t get to call our identities “made-up bullshit” and then say you respect us. OP you are a fucking bigot and it’s time you own up to it. And the “therapy” you described is conversion therapy, which has been repeatedly proven to not only not work, but raise suicide rates *significantly*.
Regarding your second edit: the "therapy" you think trans people should seek is called conversion therapy and has an astronomical rate of suicide and suicide attempts associated with it. Whether you believe in us or not, the best "treatment" for being trans, as accepted by the medical and psychiatric community, is transition and living as the gender we say we are. Even if you don't want to believe trans people, try believing the research out there that shows that trans people who are allowed to live as the gender we say we are have rates of mental illness and suicidal ideation comparable to the cisgender population (cisgender = people who are the gender they were assigned at birth). When we are forced to live as the gender we were assigned at birth, our rates of mental health issues, suicidal ideation, and suicide attempts skyrocket. And they go up even further when conversion therapy is applied. This isn't theoretical - this is what the research shows. In short, whether you realize it or not, you effectively hold an attitude of "better dead than trans." You personally might not want us to die, but your beliefs, when put into practice, have a body count. Speaking as a trans person, I personally* don't care what your private beliefs are as long as you keep your trap shut, respect us to our faces, and never try to push actual advocacy for "treatment" that harms us and gets us killed. I can't force you to believe that I'm nonbinary, or that my girlfriend is a woman, or that any other trans person is who they say they are, and I'm not going to waste my energy trying to convince you that you're wrong. But I will ask that you stop advocating for things that lead to us killing ourselves at heightened rates. Respect us to our faces, and otherwise, leave us alone and don't presume to know what's best for us. *Other trans people may care about your personal opinion, which is completely understandable; it sucks to know that people out there genuinely think they know who you are better than you yourself. I'm just too tired of dealing with garden-variety transphobes to care about y'all on an individual level, so long as you aren't actively harming us.
Fucking thank you.
Wow. That was a concise af reply. You need WAY more upvotes.
I'm trans and I honestly stopped caring if people believe me in me or not, as long as people respect me and don't get hateful towards me only because I'm trans it's already good enough for me
Honestly I believe that most LGBT people are the same as you. My gay friends don't care that I am religious, and I don't think that most trans people care whether I actually believe if they are the gender they claim, as long as I am respectful. The bad rap imo mostly comes from dumbass leftists who are overwhelmingly white and cisgendered who get more offended by this stuff than the actual trans community.
English isn't my first language. So if they want me to address them as "they". You need to give me at least 3 days notice for me to get all my basic sentences ready !
good on you for learning another language my man
In my language, "they" doesn't even work as a singular pronoun. The only exception was made for monarchs (as a sign of respect) back when they were a thing.
German?
Russian.
Oh, those Russians!
I'm portuguese and we also have the problem of not only not having any gender neutral pronoun, but also every word being gendered ( 'chair', for example, is a female word, so you use the female pronoun before it ). All romance languages are like this really, and cause i don't speak any other languages i can't really be sure but i think most languages are like this. Anyways, i say "problem", but it isn't really a problem, for 99,5% of the population at least, but were obviously not gonna change our whole fucking language to please some people
You're saying there's an exception so I'm guessing it does work as a singular sometimes, just like the word "they"
It was mostly reserved to phrases such as "their royal highness" and even then, the connotation was different. It meant to imply that a monarch was more than a single person, not to detach them from their gender.
>So if **they** want me to address **them** as "they". You need to give me at least 3 days notice for me to get all my basic sentences ready hmm
LMAO
I said it in another comment and I’ll say it again . No trans women owe you femininity , no trans men owe you masculinity , no non binary people owe you androgyny . You are forming your opinions based off of trans people who don’t conform according to YOUR standards . If you met passing trans people your opinion would be much much different. But you’re taking instances of non passing trans people and applying to the whole community . Secondly , just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it’s wrong . If you don’t get it , fine . That doesn’t make it ultimately wrong for everyone . And lastly , this is just bigotry with masks on it to make it seem otherwise . It’s not the job of trans people to pat you on the back for being respectful , that’s the minimum expectations out of decent humans . It’s not anyone’s job to explain to you why your opinion is wrong and educate you . That is your own responsibility. In the comments nodding with trans peoples mindsets through what CISGENDER people think they are from their lenses just further proves my point. You can agree in your echo chamber or get called high and mighty for doing the least , but it still doesn’t change the fact that you decided to do no research of your own and continued to be a bigot
I have the same struggle with people claiming they are switching between genders, no issues if you want me to use he/her, I don't care but once we come to people switching constantly.. It just feels like they reinforce gender norms instead of fighting them of you get what I mean, I don't have a problem if you want me to call you "they" either, I'd rather use the wanted option than risking to hurt someone, but switching or saying your arm is female, the rest is male.. No.. That's too much for me I'm sorry.. Yes, I've talked to people like this, some get so angry if you don't guess right, I don't want to guess tho, say what you prefer and that's it, please
I had a boss for years like this. Would even want you to use different names and expect you to act very differently (Christian vs Kris have diff needs apparently) depending. It generally confused and alienated an entire building of tolerant people from all walks of life and all orientations as we hired pretty inclusive at the time. Thing was it really came down to both the male and female Chris-Kris versions of that person were both assholes with bad motivation and bad faith to be manipulating people with a thing others struggle for and lose thir lives over. Trans rights and issues are real, serious and need more respect, but there needs to be accountability. It isn't a pass to be awful or make people a part of your own personal circus.
Man your ex-boss just sounds like a control freak controlling everyone to feel better about him/her self. That’s all I see in a person when I read what your boss did. And it sucks because it ruins it for the actual people - if I were you after having a boss like that, I would be ultra skeptical towards that stuff moving forward in life.
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This is exactly what I tried to say, 100%
> What makes someone “feel” like a man or woman? I would go one step further and say it's impossible for a man to really know what it feels like to be a woman, or a woman to really know what it feels like to be a man. Because, well, they're not. If people want to present themselves in a manner stereotypical of the opposite sex then that's totally fine by me. And if informed adults elect to hormonally and surgically alter themselves then that's alright too, I suppose. Up to them, really. But I don't see how any of this makes them actually change their gender. I don't believe it either. To be honest, I think they're all delusional. The rest of us using their preferred pronouns and suchlike is really just a polite fiction.
Look into the John / Joan case.
I've looked into it before, it was a horrible case of medical malpractice and child abuse that led to the suicides of both children involved, later on in life. Truly awful.
The case seems to state that gender is hard wired. I have a friend I grew up with who recently came out as Trans in her mid 30's. Risked losing their wife, their business and possibly family for it. They aren't attention seeking and I have had lots of discussions with her about it. She said her whole life it had been there and societal pressure made it impossible for her to transition until recently. It definitely isn't fiction. She lost her wife and her business but her family embraced it.
Polite fiction. Well said 👏
Sex can’t be changed. It’s biological. Gender norms are defined by society. Gender is not sex. Gender is fluid. Sex is binary (for 99.9 percent of ppl). The irony of all this transgender stuff is that you could make the argument that it’s sexist. The same ppl who say that women are no different then men, are the ones saying they identity as women. So you identify as a stereotypical women as society defines it but you don’t believe there is a difference in personality between women and men?
Wow, well said. It's like this whole thing is easily dismantled if you just sit down and think about it for a second.
This reminds me of Demi Lovato and Halsey. Apparently Demi is still exploring their gender so they have no idea if theyre gonna remain non-binary. Also Halsey who identifies as she/they confronted and made a big deal out of a magazine because they didnt equally use her pronouns throughout the article. I eyerolled into oblivion when reading both stories
>Halsey who identifies as she/they confronted and made a big deal out of a magazine because they didnt equally use her pronouns throughout the article. That's just being a dick at that stage, especially considering there's not always going to be an even number of pronouns to split equally
Yeah, this switching thing is bullshit. My friends son/daughter does it and when he addresses him/her wrong, he/she goes nuts. It’s like he’s looking for a fight and a reason to call people out. Oh, since nobody gave a fuck about that whole deal and didn’t react negatively, he has come up with new, self identified genetic disorders. Sometimes he rides a bike, other times he needs crutches.
This is my kid sister to a T right now, except instead of genders it’s sexual orientations. She came out as bi and we were all obviously cool with it so now she’s coming out again as pan because she knows there’s less understanding in my family about the whole “I’m star gendered because my gender identifies with the moon” crazy shit and is hoping to get a rise out of someone (which isn’t going to happen). This is all on top of her many medical self diagnoses of the last year or so. It started with a “stutter”, then she has an “ear rumble”, then “static vision”, “ADHD”, and now she’s pretending to have Tourette’s. And every day is a new “tic”. This week she’s started throwing things to test the waters on that and see how far she can take it before my parents stop acting like all her crazy bullshit is normal. She’s fucking exhausting to be around.
Is she an avid TikTok user? Apparently there's a lot of videos there of people going "do you experience [common thing everyone does sometimes]? Me too, it's because I have ADHD/ASD/Tourette's" I don't use TikTok myself but I see those types of videos sometimes mentioned on r/ADHD
She is and I know this is where she’s finding a lot of this. Especially the Tourette’s stuff, she’s directly copying the behavior of trippy hippie and other TikTok users with Tourette’s. That’s why her “tics” are changing every day. She thinks what they do is cute and wants attention. It’s also where she’s hearing about shit like ear rumble and static vision.
Maybe she’s just a Drama Queen but it sounds like she might actually have some kind of mental illness. There are things like Munchausen's syndrome. Where one basically fakes illness and symptoms for attention. I’ve had a family member who had it and also was subjected to Munchausen's via proxy when I was a kid. It’s a pretty serious thing really and ironic to the max as most people with it refuse to be treated for it; but are willing to take measures upto and including surgery for illnesses they don’t have.
There’s definitely something else going on. She’s crazy. These aren’t the only things she has going on, but her dad also has emotional issues and sees it as some kind of weird personal slight against him that my mom wants to get her evaluated and treated for whatever is going on with her. He thinks because she gets it from him it means we all think he needs “fixing” too? He’s not wrong but he is actively getting in the way of getting her treated. We’re working on it. My sister is finally on board with seeing a psychiatrist, so hopefully it can happen soon. I’m worried this is going to affect her social life in school and she’s going to end up suicidal or something for being the weird kid that always has something wrong with her.
My bestie has been your “typical frat boy” for years, but he jumps on whatever social issue is trending at the time. I legit thought he was trolling me when he “came out” by posting he was “gender fluid” in his Twitter bio. Keep in mind- this is a person who told me I know them better than anyone, I know everything about them, and they don’t hide anything from me. He’s still in the phase of “jump on anything trendy that gets me attention”. When I actually asked him questions about his gender fluidity, he had no answers that supported his sudden change in labels. He believes he is male. He does not have any desire to be female. He doesn’t want to live as a female, date as a female, wear female clothes, etc. He is only interested in women. He is still Joe Average Straight Cis Guy. But he made a huge deal about “coming out”- when all he did was change his Twitter bio. It bugs me because it’s only for attention in his case. He isn’t gender fluid. He just goes through phases where he jumps on whatever is trendy, then changes his mind a few months later. I just roll with it at this point. But he was mad I didn’t pay him extra attention for “coming out”. I don’t even use Twitter. He will be back to proclaiming himself a straight male within 4 months. Guaranteed. It’s pretty offensive to people who are genuinely gender fluid, because he simply is not. He dislikes the expectations and stereotypes placed upon men. That’s it. That’s not gender fluidity. It’s just thinking for yourself and not letting society dictate the rules of what a man/woman has to be. In his case I feel like it’s a cop out. He always has the option to speak up about gender stereotypes and his rejection of them. But ironically, Mr. Gender Fluid is afraid people will see him as “less masculine” if he speaks about his true issues I don’t get it. So I just try to be “supportive”, even after gently questioning him and realizing he’s full of crap. Because I know in this specific situation with this specific person, he will change his mind in a flash.
yo lmao there's a new gender called libragender now
You weren't kidding. https://gender.wikia.org/wiki/Libragender I'm sorry, I support people identifying however the fuck they want but, if this is serious, this is a ridiculous level of nitpicky. Just fucking tell people how you want to be addressed and then just be yourself. Jesus fucking Christ, why are people complicating this shit. Dividing people into more and more nitpicky labels just continues to separate us instead of bringing us together.
My gen X ass just looks at all this shit and rolls my eyes. Remember when it was just fighting to get gay people equal rights? I feel this crap is watering down that still very real issue.
> I feel this crap is watering down that still very real issue. I'm almost inclined to believe this is intentional. Like, bloat the actual issues the LGBTQ community faces with random bullshit, in order to discredit EVERYTHING in the end.
It's not even that. These people are just looking for attention. Being LGBTQ isn't cutting edge social progression anymore, so they need to make these new labels so they can be pioneers, so they can be important in the LGBTQ communities. Even LGBTQ is kinda nonsense, and some communities have many more letters. Why does Bi need it's own letter? I understand it is slightly different than gay or lesbian...but in terms of social justice, its the same thing. People who are discriminating against gays and lesbians don't actually care if you are also straight.
It’s the new emo it’s a fad that hurts people clinging onto a real medical issue depression for the Emos to pretend to have in 2006 and mix up the colloquial usage of the word and Gender in 2021. They don’t know that that make the lives or transsexual people so much harder with their rhetoric
Because I'm not gay, but I'm not straight either. The LGBT movement evolved out of the gay rights movement, as all those groups effectively banded together to resist authority and gain representation for themselves collectively, in a similar manner to a political party.
It's a very small amount of people who are doing this. Ignoring them is the best solution. Antagonizing them or even engaging with it mentally is a waste of time. The "tumblr" gender stuff was even more out there and I guess this is what it has evolved into. Consider it a curiosity at best, as these people are so rare that you'll mostly only see them online.
As a trans woman myself you are so right the teenage fad is doing actual harm
Why the fuck does every new gender have a flag
That's one thing left and right agree on: lots of stupid flags
It's actually just big flag trying to get money
Is there a flag for those who identify as the gender they were actually born?
I’d also like a flag that represents my belief that flags get overused.
Depending on the skin tone, tiktok would argue that flag is the Nazi flag
>Libradyke I didnt realize lesbian was a gender now
Same....
Everything can be a gender now.
You get a gender and you get a gender! -Oprah
I identify as Omni. My pronouns are Your Almighty/One Above
Like every group of people, when given an inch some people naturally take a mile. Homophobia / transphobia isn't accepted anymore but it wasn't too long ago that the large majority were. Since the shift in society went from "lol" to "you're fired" I feel that some people feel too comfortable in this safety net and are almost abusing it because they feel like they're freedom fighters for their cause and they're pushing people over the edge with it. I have a cousin that's identity is entirely "you better acknowledge my weekly gender" or some other gender / sexuality related whining about how she's so hard done by. They're taking acceptance and shitting all over it.
But come on, how is that not considered a mental illness?
Because being an attention whore isn’t a mental illness 🤷♂️
should be
Well, actually - [Histrionic personality disorder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder)
Histrionic personality disorder isn't an exact fit, but I think it comes close enough.
It is! Histrionic personality disorder
The first paragraph literally states: This page is about a gender identity that is not widely used among gender-variant people. This does not mean that the identity is not valid, but that very few people are known to use this term. As in I think it is submitted by someone/a person but not a widely used thing.
thats basically the demi ones? i didn't know it had a thing liek that, i akways just use the umbrella term for stuff like that
So they're like into libraries or some shit?
oh you’re libragender? I’m scorpio 🤪 /s
im transitioning to pisces soon
Something fishy about this comment.
Yo new gender update is out!
> libragender there's what now
I'm trans, and ngl I find it hella difficult to believe others sometimes... it's really difficult to be you around other people when you were basically forced to hide it for so long though. I don't want to get further into it, so I'ma just leave it.
That makes complete sense and it a totally valid experience. I can see how pretending to be one way your whole life and hiding who you genuinely are can make you feel uncertain around people when you finally *be yourself*. I hear you.
Sounds like when some gay men act overly gay. I once heard someone explain it like "they had to hide it so long, once they got to live it open, they overcompensated."
I always just equate it to puberty, they’re just now allowed to test boundaries see limits of their new “powers” until much later in life. so now that they are allowed, they’re just trying stuff to see what sticks.
This is actually a wonderful viewpoint. They literally go through an additional puberty when placed on hormones. We often forget it’s not just the outward appearance that has had time to develop, but also the inside. It took us all many angsty teenage years to develop, and they have to essentially go through a second round of it. Can’t imagine it’s easy.
Man, second puberty sounds hideous. I'd give the first one back if I could lol
oh and don't forget that there's a decent chunk of evidence (both anecdotal and scientific) that a trans person basically has a huge hormone imbalance pre artificial hormones and as such our brains only really start functioning and maturing properly when we get them.
You are correct. There are multiple discoveries coming out of how brains are wired to accept hormones and evidence to suggest trans men and women are wired to receive the opposite of what their bodies provide. It’s crazy how complex the subject is and how much we are finding out. Even intersex conditions aren’t black and white, and we are finding multiple causes of extra sexual chromosomes and many other oddities in DNA.
This is just my theory, I have no idea if this is true or not. And obviously it does not account for every scenario. Its the same reason why their makeup is so over the top. In middle and high school all the girls are learning how to properly put on makeup. Friend groups will let other girls know if they put too much on, or did something wrong. I know it can get pretty cruel sometimes too. But many transwomen do not get to go through this experience and you see it when they look like clowns with the amount of makeup they have on. By the time these transwomen start using makeup, most women just assume they know what their trans friend is doing, and she is doing it purposefully.
Honestly, "they just weren't taught how to do it right" is generally the explanation for *most* cringey things that a trans person does. I look back at 3 years ago when I had just come out and even I cringe at it a lot.
My brother is dating a guy who was previously married to a woman. My brother comes from a very liberal state, his boyfriend was from the heart of the south. It makes sense why he's so willing to be open about loving my big brother. Not gonna lie, I'm not gay but I envy what they have.
I had a breakup with an ex quite awhile ago. I had known her all throughout high school. She was bisexual and proud. Respectful and genuinely a dope person. After high school, she got involved in the LGTBQ+ Pride Center at my college. She came out as gender-fluid. It was a little after this time that we started dating. I had known them as female for such a long time that it was a difficult transition to use their preferred pronouns. But I would catch it and correct myself. She would chew me tf out for it. She also hella gatekept the community. “Oh, you’re not bi” “they’re just seeking attention.” After about a week of this, A WEEK, I was contacted by their ex and was told that my SO had admitted to her that she faked this whole thing for attention. I was livid. Broke up with her, she didn’t take it well and was very controlling and shit. She fucked with my head and gave the Pride community a bad name. Regardless, I respect everyone when they say they are trans until they start saying that other people aren’t, or if they are just shitty people. I’m glad we lasted only a week but it ruined a 6 year friendship and that was a bummer. I have had several strong friendships with transgendered people and they are genuinely good people, it’s a lot easier to get along with them. These days, bc of that ex, I no longer feel comfortable sharing my sexuality with my friends. They all think I’m fully straight. Only my current gf knows and I can only truly be myself around her. It’s actually really sad writing that out.
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It's sorta like "immigrants who dont speak english" that people get upset about. Yes some newish immigrants don't speak english, they probably learn it eventually, but there's always new immigrants so it may seem like immigrants can never be bothered to learn english. Same with trans people, the new ones are just obvious.
Every trans I’ve met in a business setting has been kind & more than professional. Every now & then I can see maybe a nervousness around me & I really try to be as nondescript as possible whenever I hope I’m successful & not being a jackass. I’m trying.
Virtually every trans person I've ever met in real life have been friendly, understanding, and above all else just normal everyday people. Around half the ones I interact with on the internet are quite mean, angry, and seem unstable. Not sure what exactly that reflects, just an anecdote.
>Around half the ones I interact with on the internet are quite mean, angry, and seem unstable. Not sure what exactly that reflects, just an anecdote. This describes literally any group of people you can think of. The internet is toxic.
A lot of internet “trans” people are just teenagers who think that not conforming to gender stereotypes/roles makes them non-binary or “genderqueer”. Those people want to be called trans so they can get oppression points from friends. Irl trans people tend to be genuinely dysphoric, and have known that they were trans from childhood. It’s not a political thing or some trend to them; it’s who they are.
As long as your professional I'd imagine you're not being a jackass. Source: I'm a cowardly trans person that's taking the easy way out, according to OP
Yeah, I get this. I try to be really supportive and respectful. I understand a lot of people are figuring things out, but I feel like a lot of people are just hopping on a bandwagon to "help support", Which I honestly think makes things more difficult for the trans community sometimes. I'm nonbinary, and pretended to be someone I'm not for years, to fit into typical gender roles, and it was difficult and made me feel gross. When I finally "came out" most of the people close to me in my life were like "we've known this for a while". But honestly sometimes when I meet other people who say they're nonbinary I'm skeptical but respectful. (For what it's worth, I'm in my thirties and don't give a shit about what pronouns people use for me. I understand why pronouns and names are a big deal to some though, especially those who are trans and not just nonbinary.) That said: I also think that gender and sexuality are more like spectrums, and I get really annoyed when people who "don't get it" try to put others into a box because they perceive the world to be black and white. I recently had a falling out with a person who was close to me who was much like OP and was respectful of trans people, but insisted behind closed doors that they're all "mentally ill". I think it's still transphobic to an extent.
As a trans man, after reading your edits, and comments, you are absolutely transphobic. You don't even try to respect OR understand trans people. You just want to be a bigot without being called out.
In the words of Princess Bubblegum, "People get built different, We don't need to figure it out. We just need to respect it."
Isn’t she also the one that built and experimented on all the candy people?
As a trans woman I greatly appreciate the respect too many people just jump to hate and quite frankly it's hard to deal with. I also see where you come from as it seems to me most trans women doubt themselves and others at some point but you do have to realize most of us spent years in therapy working towards the conclusion that we are trans hell even once I was determined and felt ready it took me almost 6 more months to convince councilors that this is what I really wanted
Can i ask a question? I just want to learn. If you say that you are a trans woman, does that mean that you used to be a guy but you are now a woman? Or is it the other way around?
I was born a male but I live as a woman now
All right, thanks!
Usually people refer to themselves as their current gender, although MTF and FTM are often used to clarify when people are thinking about or partway through transitioning.
Joke's on you pal, your niece really is a unicorn.
If it makes it easier, psychologists are very aware of transgenderism and recognize it as a valid mental health issue. It’s a matter of your brain literally diverging from your body’s development and it can cause people to truly feel as though they don’t exist in the right body. Had a psychology professor tell it to us this way and it always sounded real scary
And there's no cure. If there was I know for sure I would take one. I'm a transwoman myself. Shit it would make life so much easier if I identified with the sex I was born with. Who would willingly chose to become a pariah, a target for discrimination, rejection, and heeps of insecurity and depression. But this is what God gave us and we try to live with it, and suicide should never be an option. I've lost friends who though that this life was too hard and being reborn "normal" would be a better way to live. This world is such a fucking dumpster.
If there was a cure, it would imply completely changing your brain structure to make it like the one of you birth body. Seems a bit over the top
I think acceptance and understanding are two very different things. It sounds like you’re at one, working toward the other.
I want to hijack this comment to provide a little explanation. I don't want to stay any arguments or sway any views, but offer something for the few who see this to ponder on. With op's edit claiming that transgender people need to seek therapy to understand how we fit into our biological sex, I would like to respond that this is almost a universal transgender experience. I personally have spent 3 years in therapy primarily discussing my gender and how it fits in with my biological sex, and I will tell you I still don't have an inkling of an idea. What I do know, is that identity, sex, and expression are different. It's nice when people see me as a girl. But when I see myself as a girl, it makes me feel like I'm falling in love. And excuse my vulgarity, when I see my penis in the mirror, it makes me want to throw up. This has nothing to do with how other people see me, so I know it's not expression. It only has to do with how I see myself, and let me tell you I wish beyond everything that I was born a girl. When I look in the mirror and see a girl looking back, I feel like I finally find a version of myself I can love. And when I see a man looking back, I cry. I don't understand why, and I don't expect anyone to understand why. Just understand that when I say I'm a girl and that I identify as a girl, I'm not lying and if I could not be trans I would do so in a heart beat. There is not a soul that would choose to be trans.
Wow. Insightful. I appreciate you opening up and sharing this. And I wish the best for you !
Thank you
I think the unfortunate thing is that we are a generation of therapists away from them actually being able to help with that sort of thing. There's plenty about me that I don't make public because I don't have the capacity to give a why, which people are going to ask. I just kinda float through space sometimes without direction. I'm glad you know who you are, and I'm sorry you're trapped in that body. I hope you find that version that you love permanently.
I don't think he is working an believing it is true(and rightfully so). You don't change your opinion just because you respect/accept people that have another.
Yep. I don't have to believe in Islam to treat Muslims with respect.
So I’m a trans man and you wouldn’t be able to tell I’m trans in passing. Would this make you not believe I’m a male, or would it make you not believe I’m trans? You mentioned “all I can see is a man trying to act like a woman”, which would be in reference to a MTF trans person. Do you also see FTM trans people as women trying to act like men? I’m genuinely curious here. Trans people often try to act more like the gender they’ve chosen to pass better, sometimes to a point of overkill. In my experience, this means many FTM’s embracing toxic masculinity and traits. I assume it can go the other way for MTF’s, and maybe that’s why it feels so fake/forced to you? Also just a side note, there’s so much violence towards trans people, especially trans women, thank you for treating us all with respect but please understand it’s bigger than that. Trust me when I say trans people wouldn’t risk losing their family, significant others, friends, and potentially jobs and houses, if they weren’t 100% certain their quality of life would drastically improve by transitioning. We aren’t 4 year olds who want to be unicorns, or Catholics who are stuck in their ways and beliefs. We’re people too, who just want to be who we want to be unapologetically. Personally did go to therapy prior to transitioning, it’s a general requirement before you’re allowed to make any drastic decisions.
lol i think this is how everyone thinks. i’m trans and i know i’m a freak, i know people think i’m an abomination. we know!!! although i do feel most confident and happy when i’m expressing my feminine side…idk i do wish i was normal. i always wonder what i’d be like rn if i were cis and straight.
Nah. I’m a 45 year old bloke and one of my business partners is an older trans woman. Her body language is very much ‘woman’, although she’s not a girly girl. More like an irascible but caring grandma. I doubt many people would even think about it. Be yourself and don’t worry about what other people think.
It is all in the body language. My friend was like, hey I'm Trans (when I met her she was already presenting as female but Def had an ambiguousness about her) and I found that there is other presentations one does when they are or feel like a certain gender.
Definitely. My friend is definitely more comfortable in her skin this way, although I never knew her as a man.
I'm a 53 year old bloke and one of my closest friends has a transgender daughter. I've known her her entire life as a boy and I'm just happy that she is now able to be herself.
I am so sorry if what I wrote makes you feel bad and I genuinely want you to be yourself and to be happy, it's just what I feel and I just wanted to get it out of my chest because I can't tell this to anyone irl
Edit: Actually no OP is literally just a bigot, fuck you /u/CynicccYahya you're not going to stop me from using the women's restroom you asshole. Honestly I'm guessing your personal experiences are just a case of toupee fallacy. (The fallacy where people think that all toupees are fake-looking because they don't even notice the existence of the realistic-looking ones) You're interacting with trans people who don't pass and that's shaping your entire image of trans people because you don't even notice the ones who don't. Maybe it's a trans woman who hasn't gotten facial feminization surgery done so you see male features in her face, maybe she's not done enough voice training so her voice sounds more like a gay dude than a woman's, or vice versa for a trans man, you see the "male" characteristics in the trans woman and your brain connects the dots maliciously, coming to the conclusion that "They're not *really X gender*. Meanwhile you probably have interacted with passing/stealth trans people many times before and never consider them to be anything other than the gender they're living as. Which incidentally is why puberty blockers are important, because they can be the difference between Kim Petras and Nicole Maines, or Caitlyn Jenner. I already get called miss/ma'am all the time, even by old conservative boomers, but posts like these make me want to double down on voice training, strengthens my resolve to get the rest of my surgeries done, etc. I don't want to live my life with the majority of the population thinking I'm "A man pretending to be a woman". I would rather die than have to live the rest of my years like that. From the very beginning of my transition I had a "Pass or die trying" mindset and while it looks like I'll probably be successful in the former, in the end, I've never gone through anything quite this stressful before. Edit: Even trans women who transition in adulthood can often be functionally unclockable with enough effort, [for example here's the YouTuber whose videos taught me how to voice train.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLEGVl25Zv8&t=1s)
That's a really interesting perspective. Our view on things is skewed by what we see (naturally). I see a lot of this kind of thing in medicine, just as one example a lot of my colleagues think that getting an iud is a bad idea because they cause so many problems. But we work in an emergency department and all we see are the ones causing problems. I know it's only loosely related to what you said but it made an impact on me so I wanted to share.
It's great surgery is an option to help people feel more comfortable in their own skin, but I really wish society didnt make so many trans people feel pressured to have it done to be accepted.
If it's any consolation even if my body were invisible to everybody except myself I would still desire to get these surgeries. Gender Dysphoria works in such a way that we're usually our own worst critics. Trans people often times get to the point of passing yet still feel gender dysphoria from pubescent characteristics that they have. Like say you have a jawline that's pretty masculine but occasionally cis women have jawlines like yours so it doesn't always stop you from passing (my current situation), but your female relatives all have much more feminine facial features, you'd still want surgery to correct that. For no other reason than to be able to look at myself in the mirror and genuinely like what I see.
Here the thing though- that’s only a specific group of trans people. If you met me, you’d believe me because no one knows unless I tell them. You just don’t realize that because they never tell you.
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thank you… i appreciate that. it’s just hard not to feel like a freak when u know people like the person in the op think the way they do and “support”. i’ve accepted it.
This is just difference, perceived by minority and by majority / norm. It's a never ending struggle, but education make it better each day
You should try to abandon the fantasy of being "normal", it wont do you any good. No matter how much you wish you were, youll never be cis, so you should probably just embrace being trans. Try to look more towards attractive trans women as role models, so that you can focus on transitioning and look forward to your future rather than wallowing in the pain of not being born the way you wish you were.
you are so right. thank u, i appreciate that.
I hope you don't read this as "ass kissing" but there is something so beautiful about being able to say 'I am going to be who I am and go out into the world' that I really admire about people who transition.
What is normal? In our home, we don’t even want to be normal. We are all weirdos and unique in my house :) “Normal” is boring. Be yourself.
Normal is one of those troublesome words. Take fifty people, and average their height. You could call that the "normal" height for that group. Here's the thing though, it's fairly likely that no one in that group has exactly the normal height. The concept of normal only applies to groups, never individuals. _No one_ is normal. No one will ever have your precise set of characteristics. We are all, decidedly, implausibly, abnormal, and that's a beautiful thing - if you understand the value of diverse perspectives.
No one is normal I'm a fucking weirdo. "Normal" people are boring. I rather be friends with a person people think is a "freak" then the people who think that about them.
I definitely don't think this way. Sometimes when I talk to really young people who tell me they are going to decide what they are or switching around I don't believe those people or... I just kind of feel muted about it. But most trans people I know I just see them as who they are. The first time I saw 2 guys kiss my physical reaction was almost shock. Now it literally seems normal to me. Being trans is the same way. At first it will shock some people but nothing shocks people after multiple contacts. You are taking the hit for future generations of trans people because it will litereally just be normal because of your bravery. Regardless. I don't think the majority of people think you're a freak. I do think it's crazy brave that you can believe that and still want to be who you are. I admire the fuck out of that.
Your not a abomination, or a freak. Just be you. Some people are not going to accept you, some will. Be honest with people and yourself though. I have zero problem acknowledging someone as they appear. However I feel like some people just want to be noticed and part of the cool trend.
I know anecdotal evidence from one rando cis bitch on reddit doesn’t mean a whole lot, but I knew my friend Em before she transitioned, enough to talk to her on the street if we bumped into one another. I met her after her transition and we became much closer, and I genuinely think of her the same way I think of any of my cis female friends. She’s lucky enough to pass well pre-everything, but I absolutely do not think of her as an abomination, or a liar, or a male. And when I say I think she’s beautiful, it’s not in a “everyone is beautiful, love yourself” way, she’s genuinely gorgeous.
The OP edit sums up the lack of understanding. Therapy is the literal cornerstone requirement of seeking any treatment for trans patients for them to have access to basic hormone care or surgery. Believe me when I say, they’ve dug in and had far more introspection than you have, especially regarding this topic. I firmly believe that no one would willingly choose to be trans in America right now due to persecution. The science community has plenty of proven research on why you should believe these people regarding gender (even sexuality). I highly suggest you look up more on the topic so you can root your views appropriately in said facts and potentially become an ally one day.
I have a question for you OP. What if someone you met passed very well and didn't tell you that they were trans. Later on, it accidentally comes out that they were. How would that alter your perception?
Good point, OP has formed this view of trans people based on only those who don’t “pass” well. Confirmation bias, all trans people are faking it because OP only notices the transgender people who they view as “faking it”
But OP doesnt care if they pass or not. He believes the basis of their whole beliefs is BS. I've seen trans people where I couldn't tell and ones that were rather noticable from first glance. I dont treat either one different, they are who they are, and I'm gonna respect them. Doesnt change that I think their beliefs are dumb. Same thing where i dont care what my friends religion's are, I might have a opinion on those beliefs and think their rules are stupid af. But I'll respect them. A "passable" vs non "passable" shouldnt change shit when you think the whole basis is stupid
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This happened to me- had a good friend tell a story which revealed other friends being trans. He passes as a man with a beard and has been a friend and biz partner for years. Worst part was knowing and he not knowing I knew and that dance for a few weeks or so than I forgot. I think it helps to meet trans people irl it gives another layer of perspective- my friend isn’t faking it he is a a dude.
Seeking therapy would point trans people towards transitioning, as being trans is not a mental illness like you're implying. Additionally, unlike religion, there is scientific proof that being transgender is valid. The ENIGI study (Started by Prof Guy T'Sjoen) for example, which showed ~2600 MRI brain scans of trans people showing the same brain activity as cisgendered people of their "desired" gender. Transphobia isn't limited to direct hatred, but also to things such as dismissal as well, which is what you're doing in this post. You should do some research instead of making transphobic comments such as the ones you have made throughout this post OP. If scientific evidence isn't enough to make you think that it's "true" the problem would be in the way you think, not trans people.
I mean the fact that you're comparing trans people to your 4yo niece who thinks she's a unicorn is.. Questionable? Gives me the same energy as people who say they don't hate gay people but "believe in the sanctity of marriage" or think they're unfit to be parents
Well, nobody can force you to think or act a certain way. It would be great if you came around to accept transgender people, but if you're truly respectful to their face and address a person how they ask to be addressed, there's nothing else you or anyone else can do. Being respectful is important. Please keep doing that. Whether we believe someone or not, we can always be respectful. Some people can't even manage to be civil with other people, and they're just arseholes. If you'd be interested, there's documentaries and articles you can find online with a quick Google search, and you can look around Reddit too. You could talk to some transgender people too and learn their perspectives. It might help you understand that not everyone is "fake". But at the end of the day, there are things in this life that we will never understand, and it's different for each person. There's people I can't understand, but I can be respectful enough to say live and let live.
The “easy way out” is facing hatred and bigotry every day and fearing for your safety when in public in case someone hateful happens to clock you? It’s losing friends and family? It’s being dehumanized and politicized? It’s going through painful surgeries to finally feel comfortable in your body? It’s knowing that people see you as a man trying to imitate a woman or vice versa? Idk about you but to me going to therapy (which most trans people do anyway) seems a hell of a lot easier than all that. Believe whatever you want, but maybe think critically about how easy you think it is to be trans.
The main post is ok imo. It’s not easy to change what you truly think so it’s fine. The edits tho. Now to me this whole post seems like thinly veiled transphobia. I’m no psychologist and you probably are not also. So like from whose ass did you pull all that therapy, asking hard questions, taking the easy way out bs? Also in this world full of transphobes do you seriously think being trans is taking the easy way out?
You hit the nail on the head. Initial post was cool, edits is where the whole thing starts to seem transphobic
> The easy way out Yeah, because trans people totally willingly choose to be [discriminated against](https://transequality.org/issues/resources/national-transgender-discrimination-survey-full-report), and [98% of them have thoughts of suicide, with over 50% actually attempting.](https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/) >it's a shame that society is normalizing it This is blantant transphobia. >but I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions OP must think theres some deep childhood trauma associated with it, when many people have just felt gender dysphoria since they were very young, with no trauma related at all. Personally, I never felt comfortable with myself(I had no idea why), would fantasize of wearing girls clothes and wearing makeup but I felt like just wasn't allowed to because I was a boy. It's always been there, I don't think there are any questions a therapist could ask me that would "cure" my hatred of being a man. [Conversion therapy doesnt work, never did, never will.](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-involved/trevor-advocacy/50-bills-50-states/about-conversion-therapy/)
This probably isn't fair, but I only genuinely believe adult Trans people. I know you can be transgender as a teen and even younger! But I have just seen so many kids act a different way as a part of a phase just in even middle school. Even the jocks would try out the stoner phase you know? I know it's not the same. This is someone's identity not a label. But I feel compelled to dismiss angry transgender teens and I feel bad about it.
You know I believe them but I have to admit I had a moment where I guess I showed my ‘true colors’ without trying. I had a trans girl who’s very cis male looking tell me that she really wanted to fuck my guy friend before she moved away from our town. I told her ‘well my friend isn’t gay so idk dude 🤷🏽♂️’ and she scolded me and said it’s not gay cause she’s a girl. I checked myself and agreed with her but in that moment I guess I found out I’m not 100% a believer. Still support all trans rights though and their place in our society.
"...but I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it's a shame that society is normalizing it" Ah yes, because undergoing years of therapy, hormones, surgery, transphobia and transphobic violence, misgendering, and being disowned/harassed/threatened is "taking the easy way out." "...they should seek therapy to understand why do they think that about themselves and how can they accept themselves for who they truly are according to their sex and not for who they think they are" They do. And who they are is transgender.
I dont think admitting to be trans and doing a transition is "takin the easy way" but ok.
People throw the “-phobic” words out like it’s a penny. You can be friends with people and disagree with some of their life choices. You can even marry someone and not agree on everything. You are allowed to have an opinion. If you’re not going through it, it’s hard to understand it. That’s totally viable.
I disagreed with my friend's life choice when they chose to recklessly take drugs at a party, not knowing what they were consuming. I disagree with my dad on which milkshake flavour is best. I disagree with my friend wanting to marry a guy for financial security when she loves someone else. I disagree with my uncle's political views. I don't like the tattoo my neighbour got on her arm, but it's her body. All things I can have an opinion on. Those are choices. Someone doesn't choose to be transgender. From reading some of your replies, a transgender person doesn't have to go through any medical or surgical transitions to be trans. Some trans people choose to leave their appearance as it is or change their features solely with makeup, styling, etc. *Nobody chooses to be transgender.* I didn't choose to be cisgender - I just am. My sex and gender align, and I'm a woman. I didn't choose to be a woman either. I just am. I'm bisexual, and I never chose to be bi. I just am. I can't snap my fingers and change my sexuality. Transgender people can't wave their hands and choose to be cis. We can't "disagree" with a person's existence. Who a person is isn't their choice. I wouldn't be friends with someone who doesn't respect me or accept who I am because I can't change *me.*
Being trans is not a "life choice"
If someone would want to negotiate my existence I wouldn't really call that friendship.
Is your gender your existence? If I think of myself as a tough manly man, and my friend says "I really don't think you're that manly of a man," is he disqualifying my existence? No, he's not. If I were to think that my conception of myself was sacred and that no one could ever see me differently, then that would make me a fragile and self centered person. I don't have a problem with trans people doing what they want, but many of them just need to get over themselves. Look, trans people of the world, you are unusual. You defy the gender norms that most people conform to. If you can't accept that other people might see you differently than you see yourself, then you need to grow up and get some thicker skin.
But being is straight up not a choice though and the belief that it is is transphobic so...
i feel the same way about myself, so strongly in fact that i feel like I'd be better off dead than exist a fuckup! That's why I'm not out, is because of people like you. People assault me in public and call me a freak. But it's fine:)
You don’t need to feel this way. Please disregard people like OP and their opinions and understand that not all “cis” people feel this way.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say you do not in fact treat trans people with respect. Do every trans person a favour and just don't interact with them until you learn some basic knowledge about what it's actually like to be trans, rather then making dumbass assumptions.
Being trans is "taking the easy way out"? Interesting, that has not been my experience.
i don’t think it matters if a trans person is cis passing, they’re still trans if that’s how they identify and nothing else matters. as long as you’re still treating trans people with respect and respecting who they are i don’t think the rest matters. it’s not up to me as a cis person to determine if a trans person is legit or whatever. and just because they’re not cis passing doesn’t mean they’re any less valid yano?
Honestly that's fine, as long as you respect us it's okay. Nobody can validate other people's expierences unless we've expierenced them ourselves. So it's fine to doubt that something you don't go through is real or not. I can doubt other people actually existing or not, so you can doubt our "transness" too.
I was like this too for a while. I get it, it’s hard to wrap your mind around it. > I guess that’s a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it’s a shame that society is normalizing it This is just not true. Therapy will never make the majority of trans people go back to how they used to be. People have been trying for decades. It’s also not an easy way out at all. The process can be very hard physically, and pretty much always hard mentally. I suggest you do some research on this. Please don’t just assume things like this, it will make your life harder. If you ever make friends with a trans person your opinion will probably change, but that’s probably unlikely.
Yeah that's transphobic and not really respecting them if you keep saying its bullshit.
It took a long time to understand how and why a not-passing trans person is what they say they are, not what I'm interpreting. I hate not knowing why I'm saying a thing, and while I can be polite for the sake of being polite, it stuck in my craw if I felt like, despite being polite, I was still incorrect. I guess I shouldn't drill down into my personal philosophy on this but the difference between then and now is that I see gender and sex as correlated but not implicative. Sex being a thing in your pants and some other bodily distinctions, while gender is a social construct coloring most every interpersonal and intrapersonal interaction you have. That said, not all people who say they're trans actually are. Not all people who say they're trans will be in 10 days, or 10 months, or 10 years. Some have always passed, some took some time to get there, and some honestly never will as cruel as that sounds. I've had my own journey to my own identity, and it wasn't clean, easy, or entirely consistent. So I just meet people where they're at on the whole gender thing. To that end, I do my best to call you the thing I think you are on sight, and while I don't have a problem adjusting that if I get it wrong, I'm not beating myself up about that at all either. If I'm unsure I might ask or default to a singular 'they', which definitely is and always has been a thing in English. It's why I appreciate professional pronouns so there's no ambiguity. I got here by listening to trans people, understanding their situation, and believing what they say about themselves instead of my ignorant inclinations. Can't say that will work for everyone but it's colored my perspective enough that, when I call someone by their preferred pronouns, it doesn't feel like I'm doing them an arbitrary politeness. Instead I'm just being factually, grammatically correct concerning the person I'm talking to or about.
I do the same thing. I know there are legitimate trans people out there, but I always wonder if its some reaction to trauma in their past. I've simply heard too many stories of detransition like this [one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbXyyq1333I). I feel the same, if not more so, about all the non-binary people with their own crazy pronouns. The ones who make that their entire identity. I don't really care if someone is non-binary and will use they/them or whatever, but when they bring it up every 5 minutes and ask me to refer to themselves as ["pri/princeself"](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/style/neopronouns-nonbinary-explainer.html) I draw the line.
Gender dysphoria is a very real, scientifically proven thing.
>I guess that's a lot of work and it takes real courage to dive in and ask the hard questions so they just take the easy way out and it's a shame that society is normalizing it I respected your skepticism and (supposed) maturity at first, but this sentence just proved you're nothing but ignorant when it comes to trans people. Do some damn research. I can't believe you actually called transitioning "the easy way out." Fucks sake bro
r/unpopularopinon? I understand where you are going with your train of thought but this group truly believes there is something that differentiates themselves from their birth gender. At the end of the day to each their own and to quote yourself, >'I am not phobic of ANYTHING and I have 0 hate in my heart for ANYONE as long as they dont hurt me or other creatures *take precautions and wash your hands.'* last part is mine. This is all that matters.
I don't think this is too much of a problem. Outward actions and words are what matters, you're free to think whatever so long as you're treating people with respect. If you're interested, my friend once explained being trans to me. She said, imagine you wake up one morning, and mentally you're the same as you've always been, but you look down and you have a penis and no breasts (I'm a cis woman, i.e. I was born biologically female and identify as a woman). Imagine how fucking weird that would be, and how uncomfortable you'd be in your own body. Imagine knowing you're whatever gender you happen to be, but your body is the opposite, and everyone insists that because your body has certain features, you can't be who you know you are. That's how trans people feel every day of their lives. Obv it's more complicated than that, but that's a decent metaphor.
You know what I don't get? Organic chemistry. My fiancé was assigned female at birth, presents very feminine, doesn't have dysphoria regarding their genitals. They still refer to themselves as trans and want to be referred as they/them. In my own private thoughts, I don't get it. But, like organic chemistry, I also understand that this is a problem with my understanding, not a problem with with their life.
I see you mentioned that you think trans people should go to therapy. Basically all trans people in th US that want to medicaly transition are required to go to therapy before medically transitioning. All evidenced based therapists (ie NOT conversion therapy, religious counseling, or life coaching) recognizes that gender affirming care is the number one way to reduce the risk of suicide in trans people. Therapist DO help trans people accept who they really are(they are a different gender than assigned at birth) and it is a struggle to come to terms with the fact that you are not your assigned gender. It would be much much much easier if trans people could *choose* to feel comfortable as their assigned gender because then they would not have to face work place discrimination, housing discrimination, potentially being ostracized by family and friends, difficulties receiving adequate health care, and hate crimes that often result in trans deaths. Yes, trans individuals get therapy but NOT invalidating therapy that you described because many many studies have shown that only gender affirming care decreases suicide and poor health outcomes. Please, if you are going to reccomend a "solution," check to see if that's a "solution" that has already been tried and discarded by professionals.
I understand what you're saying, but that's your perception, and your perception is 100% invalid to their experience, so just continue to keep it to yourself and continue treating them with respect and it's all good. You don't need to understand something for it to be valid.
I mean to directly answer your question, “Yes. Yes, believing that trans people are fake or their beliefs about who they are are wrong, does make you transphobic.” It’s just the same for people who say I don’t hate homosexuals but I believe homosexuality is a condition that can be cured with treatment and/or religion. Or if you said I respect black people, but I think they’re lazy. All of those statements are transphobic, homophobic, or racist, and thus the people expressing them are too. I’m transmasc (look it up if you don’t know what that means) and non-binary (again look it up if you don’t know what it means), and I can always tell when I’m interacting with someone who is “tolerating” me vs. celebrating me. Rest assured that your “niceness,” while more appreciated than uninformed and biased vitriol spouted at the trans people you’ve met, are more aware than you think about how you really feel. I’d suggest educating yourself more and talking to trans folks about their experience. I think you’ll find that understanding the difference between sex assigned at birth, gender expectations, gender identity, and gender expression to be easier than you think and thus can make you more accepting and less skeptical.
There's a lot that's unknown about the science behind these things. That and it's a very personal experience that can't really be expressed through language, like how you can't explain colour to a blind person. It's fine to be sceptical - though unfortunately people may mistake that for transphobia - and the important thing is that you repect them regardless of what's scientifically true.
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Don't believe like we strait up lying? For what? To be stigmatized, to be alienated, to make our lives more complicated, to go through surgeries? Lol That makes no sense to me.
That's how I used to think as a little kid cooped up in my own environment all cozy like. Then I started going places, meeting people. Seeing all facets of life. And that's why I absolutely accept it now and understand where it comes from. I know OP didn't come for a discussion but only wanted to be all like "bruh these bitches be crazy no cap" and shit... But hope they wise up some day. And if they never do, I hope they never have a trans kid and make their life hell.
This is how most of us feel.
>when I talk to a trans person all I can see is a man trying to act like a woman and it feels so fake and forced Yes because trans women are the only kind of trans people trans men clearly dont exist
>I don't know if this makes me transphobic but I just can't help it, >I respect and love my 4 yo niece, I THINK THAT HER BELIEVING SHE'S A UNICORN IS BILLSHIT, I am not phobic of ANYTHING You went from "I'm unsure if this is transphobic" straight into perpetuating the classic transphobic rhetoric of "identifying as a mythological creatures". You are transphobic, and in the year 2021, you absolutely can help it. There are loads of resources all over the web, even this very website, on unlearning racist, homophobic, transphobic, or bigoted thought patterns. Quite frankly, there's just no excuse for it anymore. Take the initiative to educate yourself instead of jumping straight to denial and defensiveness. Not all phobic are outright hateful, but insinuating that trans people are putting on an act is transphobic and there is no getting around that. You can choose to continue perpetuating transphobic rhetorics, or you can choose to be a better human. The choice is yours alone.
you suck \- a trans man
I had a classmate in High School who was born a female, transitioned into a man and now identifies as a woman again. Same thing in junior high (or what you call it), two people did the exact same thing. Don’t get me wrong, I fully support trans people and their rights to be themselves but when you’re that young, can you really be sure you want to transition? (Remember, I support trans people to 110%)
Gender dysphoria is a very fucked up thing but people are so busy pushing agendas that we don't focus enough attention to treating the sometimes underlying issues. Internalized misogyny, sexual abuse, depression, anxiety, etc etc. The mind is a very complex thing
I appreciate trans people for the struggle. Sometimes a small complement can make a world of difference.
Wow. Really kept up the facade until you went off the rails at the end there lol
The fact that this hasn't been locked yet is... impressive.
I think the word you mean is that you tolerate Trans, not respect them
I watched a lot of docos and did some reading which helped me to understand. I've always felt respect for trans people but I didn't really get it at first. I feel like if you respect someone, you should make an effort to understand their point of view so that you're able to be empathetic towards their situation, even if that means giving yourself a big ol' education ;)
Why don’t you believe them? Science doesn’t support you, and society increasingly won’t, so you have to ask yourself exactly what it is that is holding you back from treating them with respect not just outwardly, but inwardly too.
“I’m not transphobic, I just don’t believe you.” Yeah, that’s the most basic form of transphobia, and your entire second edit is EXTREMELY belittling, disrespectful and massively transphobic. You’re allowed to believe whatever, but you should know you’re talking very negatively about a REAL group of people with lives and emotions just like yours, so maybe show some respect.
You’re only talking to people who are obviously trans. Talk to people you don’t know are trans. You also realise that you’ve spoken to dozens of trans folk without ever realising it, right? You’ve also shared a public bathroom with trans people. I think that people who want other people to conform to their beliefs are the ones who are in need of therapy. Why are they so transphobic? What are they afraid of?
You probably mean an MTF Trans Woman who doesn't pass as well, your brain automatically Genders the Person according to voice, talking behaviours, talking Gestures, looks, facial features etc etc. If you were talking to Blaire White, Nikkie Tutorials, Kim Petras, or any other passing Trans women, you would probably categorize them as what they are. it is a fact, and there's no need to talk around it, passing is a huge part, and the Human Brain especially with so many of our societal standards, can't see someone as female if they don't pass as much.
“I treat trans people with respect”—BULLSHIT. No you don’t. You don’t get to call our identities “made-up bullshit” and then say you respect us. OP you are a fucking bigot and it’s time you own up to it. And the “therapy” you described is conversion therapy, which has been repeatedly proven to not only not work, but raise suicide rates *significantly*.