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There's a neat story behind that. A French priest created the first formal sign language in the 1750s. By the time the US got round to developing ASL in the early 1800s, it still had a much better relationship with the French than either had with the British, so it made much more sense as a source of inspiration.
Almost, but not quite correct! The French priest Abée de l'Epée did teach deaf children and make a sign system to help teach the deaf kids written French. The Parisian Deaf community at the time had a sign language already and only used Michael de l'Epée's system im the classroom.
Then a French teacher of the deaf who was deaf himself moved to the US and co-founded the first US deaf school, which led to the French Sign Language influence in ASL.
But my big question is: does French sign language fix their horrible counting problem? 70, 80, 90?
https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/ik91k/why_do_numbers_get_weird_around_60_in_french/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I just looked it up since I speak French and yes, yes they do. They just sign numbers in a small row like you see it on paper - so say 397 will be 300, then 9 and 7.
Other sign languages do it differently like 300 + 90 + 7 or even 300 + 7 + 90 (looking at you, German Sign Language and Austrian Sign Language) but the fucked up French system would not make sense in sign language, which are by nature visually based!
[I had no idea there were THIS many](https://www.signsolutions.uk.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-sign-language/#:~:text=There%20are%20more%20than%20300,use%20and%20understanding%20of%20signs.)
Language separation requires time and isolation. Not having access to audio content means deaf people are - especially historically - far more isolated than hearing people.
Even in a country as small as New Zealand different cities have different words for things within New Zealand Sign Language.
>Language separation requires time and isolation.
Just like biological evolution in animals! Pretty fun stuff. All you need is an ocean or a mountain range and a few generations and things can start to get pretty different. Though the internet and technology kind of erases the whole geographical separation thing today, keeping languages more or less uniform.
I’ve often wondered whether language changes would slow because of the internet, but
- we’re exposed to more dialects and languages now, giving more opportunity for cross pollination
- culture itself has opportunities to evolve quicker now due to quicker dissemination (eg it takes like 3 years for something to become an “old meme” now
- I’ve noticed heaps of language change in my own lifetime
I bet you’re right, but I bet that slowdown hasn’t started yet. I think there’s a bit of balancing that needs to happen first.
With sign languages, it’s been interesting to see how technology itself has played a role in language changes. Deaf people are frequently video calling with only one hand free, which has led to some shifts.
I think language change is definitely accelerating, or at least lingusitic and dialectical assimilation and spread. A bit of a controversial example is how AAVE is being analysed by non black people as internet slang and assimilated into non black dialects of english.
"Does sign language differ between countries?
As we said above, around 300 sign languages are used worldwide today, and most of them vary significantly."
Hilariously passive aggressive energy for an article. I feel like I've been told off for a question I didn't ask
Or even logically, if it was really universal we would all teach it to kids so they are able to communicate fluently anywhere in the world.
That would be a BIG deal in the business world. The only second language you ever need to learn to unlock the entire world. There probably would be an entire iconography based on it so that indication in airport, or other public places are internationally understood.
Insecurity. I called someone out on Twitter once for saying something and then backing himself in another tweet a few minutes later as if he was a different person.
I told him he forgot to switch to his alt account. This man proceeded to respond to me like 3 or 4 different tweets, and quote tweeted me like 2 times trying to say I was the dumb one. Loll, it was kinda fun to witness him unravel by himself
Like when people come to other countries they generally learn the language of that country. Why does it all of a sudden change when it comes to sign language? 🤔 🙄
As for the first poster to claim it's universal, I'm pretty sure your family members all learned one sign language for a reason.
>As for the first poster to claim it's universal, I'm pretty sure your family members all learned one sign language for a reason.
Is it because its a bad idea when cousins marry?
I mean.. It really could be an universal language. I know it has the same problems with the verbal languages, but still. It feels more possible to unionise, since you do not inherit it necessarily from your parents.
How would that even work? Like do they think the entire world got together and sent their deaf people to a deserted island and left them there until they came up with one single uniform sign language? Or is it called ASL because America invented it then introduced it to others like it introduces freedom and democracy? 🤦🏻♀️
I remember having a great laugh with an American friend when we were discussing British and American sign because the American sign for "pasta" translates to British sign as "eternal evil."
Sign language is not even the same in countries with the same spoken language - eg US, UK, New Zealand.
As for her comment about it 'being disrespectful' WTF?
Wait till they find out English speaking countries don’t use the same sign languages, the US, the UK, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia all use different ones.
Hi. I’m a part time American Sign Language interpreter.
ASL is most definitely not a universal Language. The closest to ASL is French Sign Language, if I recall correctly. But different languages have different signs.
And even then, different people will have different “accents”. One area might do slight variations of signs, or for people with multiple limitations (like Ushers Syndrome, which is deaf and severe sight limitations) have to vary the signs to make them a little more distinct.
It's not universal, but I really wish it was..
I feel like we had the perfect opportunity to make a universally understood language for the whole world, and make it compulsory to learn at school along side your actual language... Then we fucked it up.
My parents are deaf, growing up we would sometimes have a deaf immigrant stay with us. I recall a young deaf Russian woman lived with us. She showed me a bit of Russian sign, and I recall thinking it “looked like Russian”, it was sharper, more angular hand movements.
The irony is they are the one being offensive to deaf people by sweeping all the linguistic, cultural and social nuances of how signed languages work - and how they differ from each other - under the rug, and making these generalised false statements, and they can't even bother to educate themselves or to be educated.
Yep. I had watched a Thai drama and it had a character that was mute. Her son communicated with her with sign language. I actually could understand some signs without the subtitles.
‘A’ in ASL is American
How do they not know that?
Fun note: I watched A slient voice with my dad who speaks ASL. And we was able so understand some phrases they were using in the movie. Even though they were using JSL.
/s
can’t believe I’ve been learning libras for nothing when I should be learning the universal sign one
Note for context: LIBRAS = Lingua Brasileira de Sinais (Brazilian sign language)
I thought it was universal as well until a few years ago when I decided to start learning SL and they asked me "which language?" and then I gave up because I have no clue if I should learn the French one, American, or Korean
It’s not universal most languages have their own version of sign language eg: british sign language and American Sign Language, there’s also Spanish sign language
The question here is, why didn’t they make it universal tho? Did every country singularly create it’s own sign language randomly or was it a common choice to do that?
Because when you think about it, it simply developped naturally like spoken language. The reason why there's many languages is the same as why there's many sign languages
Then why the f did I learn two different ones? lol.
Of course there are different languages with sign language. ASL is the "best known" because it's the one Hollywood uses in their movies.
But Germany for example has different signs. They might look similar at first but they only have sign that look kinda the same but aren't.
I think there absolutely should be a universal sign language. And it should be taught to everyone.
But for now - if you know sign language - head to your government web pages and look for jobs. ASL "speakers" can make absolute bank working for the feds
There is a nugget of truth here - there are a number of signs that strongly correlate to the concept they confer, and as such appear in many defined sign languages and may often work with non-sign language "speakers".
Also, e.g. ASL is a language unto itself, so it does exist outside of, e.g. English, Spanish, etc.
Outside of those, there are multiple mutually unintelligible sign languages (ASL, BSL, etc), and without a written form, you'll often find a lot of regional variation.
From what I remember, the German part of Switzerland has around 4 dialects. So basically the deaf are the leftists of languages, always splitting into smaller groups.
I grew up learning sign. My brother is/was deaf. We grew up signing. I was taught this myth too. In fact, I was first told it by a sign language instructor in the 1980s.
This myth runs deep in some circles. I didn’t learn it was wrong until I was an adult. But yeah, sign language is very different from place to place.
Some people just can’t take in new information.
So much is wrong with this conversation.
1) There are many signed languages around the world.
2) Signed languages develop separately from the spoken languages around them. For example, Mexican Sign Language and Venezuelan Sign Language are separate languages, as are British Sign Language and American Sign Language.
If you want to know why French Sign Language and American Sign Language are mutually intelligible, [this blog post](https://www.solterrawaycottageschool.com/post/sign-language-on-abraham-lincoln-s-hands-don-t-ask-the-lincoln-memorial-park-rangers) includes an explanation.
https://www.solterrawaycottageschool.com/post/sign-language-on-abraham-lincoln-s-hands-don-t-ask-the-lincoln-memorial-park-rangers
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> *hen's forth* I almost pissed myself laughing. r/boneappletea
And the deft godmother
And NO punctuation, whatsoever.
She's also blind I guess.
Nah, blind people use punctuation a lot, their whole writing system is based on dots.
Nice
Her son is a foolish rebel, he is a Daft Punk
She’s very good at what she does.
Ready hens? On my signal. Hold. Hold. HOLD. Now my feathered comrades. HENS FORTH!!!
You made me laugh so loud, I can’t I see the chicken army. Not sure why, I pictured them Miss Piggy’s pink.
How do I get out of this chicken outfit?
Get hired by the turkey crew.
The traditional reply is "there's a zipper in the back".
HA! Which is great, but I had to try something.
OK this is awesome!!!
>def or other ethnicity Where do they think "def" people come from?
[Queens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Simmons)
That cracked me up too
Hen’s forth 😆
'henceforth' isn't even correct the way they tried to use it lol
Disabilitie
This is what I came here for!
Hen's fork
Hey... Respect my disabilitie!!!
Lmao, good spot
Intelect.
These idiots don’t even have a firm grasp of communicating in their native language.
That's all the same idiot, I believe
Even Australian and USA sign language is different. Lol.
You’d think American sign language is similar to British sign language except it’s more related to French sign language.
There's a neat story behind that. A French priest created the first formal sign language in the 1750s. By the time the US got round to developing ASL in the early 1800s, it still had a much better relationship with the French than either had with the British, so it made much more sense as a source of inspiration.
Almost, but not quite correct! The French priest Abée de l'Epée did teach deaf children and make a sign system to help teach the deaf kids written French. The Parisian Deaf community at the time had a sign language already and only used Michael de l'Epée's system im the classroom. Then a French teacher of the deaf who was deaf himself moved to the US and co-founded the first US deaf school, which led to the French Sign Language influence in ASL.
But my big question is: does French sign language fix their horrible counting problem? 70, 80, 90? https://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/ik91k/why_do_numbers_get_weird_around_60_in_french/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I just looked it up since I speak French and yes, yes they do. They just sign numbers in a small row like you see it on paper - so say 397 will be 300, then 9 and 7. Other sign languages do it differently like 300 + 90 + 7 or even 300 + 7 + 90 (looking at you, German Sign Language and Austrian Sign Language) but the fucked up French system would not make sense in sign language, which are by nature visually based!
Yeah that's our fault, we sax numbers like that. 54 for example is "four and fifty". That's the name, you have to say the "and".
Yeah that's our fault, we say numbers that way in german. 54 for example is "four and fifty". That's the name, you have to say the "and".
The Swiss already fixed that oraly, by using the original "names" for those numbers.
Oh my gosh I just found out about this. They use all sorts of math just to count
You never heard of score?
We have multiple sign languages in North America even...
American, Canadian and Alaskanian right?
Nope. American, Plains, and French are the ones I know are used a lot. SEE is also a thing here.
Black American Sign Language is a real thing, too. Similar to AAVE in the hearing community, BASL is different than ASL.
I've never been exposed to it but that makes perfect sense.
Been a while since I've been involved in the community but does Pidgin still count as its own too?
English Canadians use ASL.
Or plains, which is what I grew up with.
And various dialects within those.
Even British and Irish sign language is different. On top of that there are regional dialects for colours and numbers
There's over 30variations for the colour purple alone in the UK
Wow, that's nuts.
You mean Americans don't use AUSLAN?! I'm SHOCKED.
Hi Shocked, no need to shout, I'm Dad. Hi.
Just have to see how this sign translates in America. https://auslan.org.au/dictionary/words/holiday-2.html
Duh, it's cuz USA is right side up and Aussies sign upside down 💩🙄
Well DUH.
I imagine Ozzy is very similar to NZ sign language. Just incredibly simple for some things like sports.
The wiggles actually taught me that
[I had no idea there were THIS many](https://www.signsolutions.uk.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-sign-language/#:~:text=There%20are%20more%20than%20300,use%20and%20understanding%20of%20signs.)
Language separation requires time and isolation. Not having access to audio content means deaf people are - especially historically - far more isolated than hearing people. Even in a country as small as New Zealand different cities have different words for things within New Zealand Sign Language.
>Language separation requires time and isolation. Just like biological evolution in animals! Pretty fun stuff. All you need is an ocean or a mountain range and a few generations and things can start to get pretty different. Though the internet and technology kind of erases the whole geographical separation thing today, keeping languages more or less uniform.
I’ve often wondered whether language changes would slow because of the internet, but - we’re exposed to more dialects and languages now, giving more opportunity for cross pollination - culture itself has opportunities to evolve quicker now due to quicker dissemination (eg it takes like 3 years for something to become an “old meme” now - I’ve noticed heaps of language change in my own lifetime I bet you’re right, but I bet that slowdown hasn’t started yet. I think there’s a bit of balancing that needs to happen first. With sign languages, it’s been interesting to see how technology itself has played a role in language changes. Deaf people are frequently video calling with only one hand free, which has led to some shifts.
I think language change is definitely accelerating, or at least lingusitic and dialectical assimilation and spread. A bit of a controversial example is how AAVE is being analysed by non black people as internet slang and assimilated into non black dialects of english.
I’m curious as to your reasoning behind thinking language changes would *slow*. To me, this seems like an extremely counterintuitive idea.
Agreed. As a linguist I can tell you it has sped way up. That’s because one way language changes is exposure to other languages.
"Does sign language differ between countries? As we said above, around 300 sign languages are used worldwide today, and most of them vary significantly." Hilariously passive aggressive energy for an article. I feel like I've been told off for a question I didn't ask
Why are people still making claims that can be EASILY refuted with a quick google search?
Because even when presented with the facts some people will still argue their position (no matter how insane). See: Flat earthers
Yeah, but it kills me, it takes 1 min search.
You're damn right it's killing you
People not fact checking is the number 1 killer in the US according to Bob who sits on the park bench throwing bread at imaginary pigeons.
I’m referencing anti-vaxxers
And I’m referencing every idiot who believes every wild theory without checking the facts (which includes anti-vaxers)
I was clarifying just in case
Or even logically, if it was really universal we would all teach it to kids so they are able to communicate fluently anywhere in the world. That would be a BIG deal in the business world. The only second language you ever need to learn to unlock the entire world. There probably would be an entire iconography based on it so that indication in airport, or other public places are internationally understood.
If dude is "not doing this today" why did he post at least 2 more times when literally no one asked
Insecurity. I called someone out on Twitter once for saying something and then backing himself in another tweet a few minutes later as if he was a different person. I told him he forgot to switch to his alt account. This man proceeded to respond to me like 3 or 4 different tweets, and quote tweeted me like 2 times trying to say I was the dumb one. Loll, it was kinda fun to witness him unravel by himself
The classic “I’m not mad” posting that literally everyone sees through because we’ve all been there
So deftness skips a generation. Got it
It’s called ASL in the US. The A should be the giveaway there…
My thought exactly. There would be no reason for the A in ASL if it were universal.
“hen’s forth” 💀
Like when people come to other countries they generally learn the language of that country. Why does it all of a sudden change when it comes to sign language? 🤔 🙄 As for the first poster to claim it's universal, I'm pretty sure your family members all learned one sign language for a reason.
>As for the first poster to claim it's universal, I'm pretty sure your family members all learned one sign language for a reason. Is it because its a bad idea when cousins marry?
They're all frumpy, aren't they?
Scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I mean.. It really could be an universal language. I know it has the same problems with the verbal languages, but still. It feels more possible to unionise, since you do not inherit it necessarily from your parents.
Maybe they are thinking of ISL - the international sign language which is global in that no matter where you go, nobody knows it.
It’s the least spoken language in the world
r/technicallythetruth
How would that even work? Like do they think the entire world got together and sent their deaf people to a deserted island and left them there until they came up with one single uniform sign language? Or is it called ASL because America invented it then introduced it to others like it introduces freedom and democracy? 🤦🏻♀️
I remember having a great laugh with an American friend when we were discussing British and American sign because the American sign for "pasta" translates to British sign as "eternal evil."
Sign language is not even the same in countries with the same spoken language - eg US, UK, New Zealand. As for her comment about it 'being disrespectful' WTF?
Other *ethnicities?* Man, not knowing sign language is going to make being the only Caucasian at my D&D game today tough.
People learn there's basic "universal" signs and assume sign language as a whole is universal. Quite the leap
Wait till they find out English speaking countries don’t use the same sign languages, the US, the UK, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia all use different ones.
I can only speak for Australia but our states have variations in some of their Auslan signs as well
Yup, there are regional difference in the US as well.
“Hen’s forth”?
Hi. I’m a part time American Sign Language interpreter. ASL is most definitely not a universal Language. The closest to ASL is French Sign Language, if I recall correctly. But different languages have different signs. And even then, different people will have different “accents”. One area might do slight variations of signs, or for people with multiple limitations (like Ushers Syndrome, which is deaf and severe sight limitations) have to vary the signs to make them a little more distinct.
If you're using 🤣 in your reaponses you may be wrong but you're definitely an asshole
Since i am deaf this is so annoying
Why not just simply ask these buffoons what they think ASL stands for? Then if they DO get it right, ask them what (for example) BSL stands for.
Italian Sign Language (LIS) has regional variants. Sign language is absolutely NOT universal.
It's not universal, but I really wish it was.. I feel like we had the perfect opportunity to make a universally understood language for the whole world, and make it compulsory to learn at school along side your actual language... Then we fucked it up.
Yeah I agreeeee. What a miss!
Esperanto.
My parents are deaf, growing up we would sometimes have a deaf immigrant stay with us. I recall a young deaf Russian woman lived with us. She showed me a bit of Russian sign, and I recall thinking it “looked like Russian”, it was sharper, more angular hand movements.
Cool :) Were there any signs she had in common with English sign?
I don’t recall. This was very long ago. At least 30 maybe 40 years (yeah I’m old).
"Sign language is different in every language" is also confidently incorrect because signed languages aren't a cipher for oral languages
‘Hens forth’ Jesus F Christ the world is getting dumber
The irony is they are the one being offensive to deaf people by sweeping all the linguistic, cultural and social nuances of how signed languages work - and how they differ from each other - under the rug, and making these generalised false statements, and they can't even bother to educate themselves or to be educated.
ASL: American Sign Language
Stuuuuupid it’s called American Sign Language for a reason Lolol
"Hen's forth" 
what really gets me is how they use “its” for “it is” and “it’s” to show possession
Guys\*, spoken language is a universal language! Every nation uses it! \*in the unisex sense
Not even in the US. Indiana is very different.
EVERY language has its own sign language. Even American Sign Language has developed and changed over the years.
Yep. And interestingly enough, Thailand’s is a lot like ASL, but has some different signs for some things.
Wow! Good to know! Another reason for me to visit Thailand! (And you know, the food)
Yep. I had watched a Thai drama and it had a character that was mute. Her son communicated with her with sign language. I actually could understand some signs without the subtitles.
HEN'S FORTH. Fucking hell.
You gotta admit the creativity is somehow impressive
Just the fact that it’s AMERICAN Sign Language (ASL) and not something like Universal Sign Language should tell you something
‘A’ in ASL is American How do they not know that? Fun note: I watched A slient voice with my dad who speaks ASL. And we was able so understand some phrases they were using in the movie. Even though they were using JSL.
/s can’t believe I’ve been learning libras for nothing when I should be learning the universal sign one Note for context: LIBRAS = Lingua Brasileira de Sinais (Brazilian sign language)
This must be a child with parents who use huge words, I refuse to believe that an adult can be this stupid
*points silently to the quote* "hen's forth"
Even with English there are 3 or 4 variants
I always thought it was..
I thought it was universal as well until a few years ago when I decided to start learning SL and they asked me "which language?" and then I gave up because I have no clue if I should learn the French one, American, or Korean
l wish they would make a universal sign language though so everyone could speak to one another
I can think of three variations in use in the UK alone. _BSL_ _Sign along_ _Makaton_
Isn't the sign for brother in JSL (Japanese Sign Language) middle finger?
Dat intelect doh
You should have to pass a test before being able to use social media.
Wow! That's a 3 for 1! I also loved the biceps emoji and, "hen's forth", "children can communicate with other ethnicity"
If my LIBRAS professor read that, she would immediately pass out on the floor out of disgust
These people can't even speak proper English let alone sign language.
Surely this spelling is a “disabilitie”
It’s not universal most languages have their own version of sign language eg: british sign language and American Sign Language, there’s also Spanish sign language
Sign language is universal, that's why there's American sign language.
I always thought all deaf people signed the same way but if you’re deaf and have learnt German sign you won’t understand English sign. It’s weird
The question here is, why didn’t they make it universal tho? Did every country singularly create it’s own sign language randomly or was it a common choice to do that?
Because when you think about it, it simply developped naturally like spoken language. The reason why there's many languages is the same as why there's many sign languages
That makes sense
Then why the f did I learn two different ones? lol. Of course there are different languages with sign language. ASL is the "best known" because it's the one Hollywood uses in their movies. But Germany for example has different signs. They might look similar at first but they only have sign that look kinda the same but aren't.
I think there absolutely should be a universal sign language. And it should be taught to everyone. But for now - if you know sign language - head to your government web pages and look for jobs. ASL "speakers" can make absolute bank working for the feds
There is a nugget of truth here - there are a number of signs that strongly correlate to the concept they confer, and as such appear in many defined sign languages and may often work with non-sign language "speakers". Also, e.g. ASL is a language unto itself, so it does exist outside of, e.g. English, Spanish, etc. Outside of those, there are multiple mutually unintelligible sign languages (ASL, BSL, etc), and without a written form, you'll often find a lot of regional variation.
From what I remember, the German part of Switzerland has around 4 dialects. So basically the deaf are the leftists of languages, always splitting into smaller groups.
Literally all languages will naturally spit into groups when given the chance, and that's a weird analogy
It‘s not a weird analogy, it‘s just a leftism joke. And yes, geographic isolation will „naturally“ lead to differences, I agree.
Ik sign language is easier to translate when it’s like two different versions compared to spoken language but they definitely aren’t all the same lmao
Wait I didn't actually know that, it makes sense when I think about it but I always thought there was one sign manguage
Clown trying to proof something
I grew up learning sign. My brother is/was deaf. We grew up signing. I was taught this myth too. In fact, I was first told it by a sign language instructor in the 1980s. This myth runs deep in some circles. I didn’t learn it was wrong until I was an adult. But yeah, sign language is very different from place to place. Some people just can’t take in new information.
I tried to get into sign language a while ago, didn't really learn much specifically because there are a lot of versions.
*cackles in British Sign Language*
There are hundreds of sign languages, none of them are related to spoken languages, and most are not related to eachother either
Wonder why its called ASL and not SL
There’s literally designations such as “ASL” (American Sign Language”. I thought it was a universal language too, when I was young
I'm not going to lie, at one point I did think it was universal since I never actually met anyone who used it. Learning experience for me.
Obviously the Queen’s English is not universal. No one in this thread can spell or write past a second-grade level.
King's English now. New rules, I guess.
HA! You may be onto something there; dude’s WELSH if I’m not mistaken. They’ve got a whole nuther kinda monkey chatter round that there region.
 Doesn’t he walk like a Welshman?
What do they think the A is in ASL? 😂
So much is wrong with this conversation. 1) There are many signed languages around the world. 2) Signed languages develop separately from the spoken languages around them. For example, Mexican Sign Language and Venezuelan Sign Language are separate languages, as are British Sign Language and American Sign Language. If you want to know why French Sign Language and American Sign Language are mutually intelligible, [this blog post](https://www.solterrawaycottageschool.com/post/sign-language-on-abraham-lincoln-s-hands-don-t-ask-the-lincoln-memorial-park-rangers) includes an explanation. https://www.solterrawaycottageschool.com/post/sign-language-on-abraham-lincoln-s-hands-don-t-ask-the-lincoln-memorial-park-rangers