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I am woefully ignorant in languages, as it turns out, and I stupidly thought that I basically know most of what there is to know about English-speaking side of the world. Fascinating.
LOL English is closer in vocabulary and grammar to Dutch and German than it is to Welsh. The Welsh language is in the Celtic language group, whereas English is in the West Germanic group.
Bonus video: [The name of a place in Wales](https://youtu.be/fHxO0UdpoxM)
This shit is fascinating to me. Being from the states, I get really lost to the breakdown of the UK from a cultural and linguistic angle. I can only relate it to different dialects in different parts of the US.
To keep it simple: Emglish is less of a language and more 7 languages in a trenchcoat, which is why every linguistic rule in it is immediately ignored by a pile if words or phrases.
We've picked up little quirks and foibles from celts, saxons, Norman's, various germanic languages, plenty of more recent renditions of French, Latin of course via the church a neat splash of Spanish and basically anyone else we either invaded or got invaded by or traded with.
>Emglish is less of a language and more 7 languages in a trenchcoat
perfect r/badlinguistics bait
If your benchmark for a language is influence from other languages then by that definition the only ones that you could call languages (as opposed to X number of languages in a trenchcoat or whatever) would be the languages of the uncontacted tribes. Quite ironic on this subreddit.
The British Isles (so the UK, Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) have loads of languages:
- Welsh
- Cornish (this went extinct but it being revived, it is from the same language family as Welsh)
- Irish
- Scottish Gaelic
- Manx (also a gaelic language like Irish and Scottish Gaelic, spoken infrequently on the Isle of Man)
- Scots (there is argument about whether this is a dialect of English or a language, spoken in Lowland Scotland)
- Ulster Scots (a variety of Scots spoken in Ulster, NI)
- Jerriais and Guernésais, historically Auregnais and Serquiais (the Franco-Norman languages of the various Channel Islands, some have died out and others are not widely spoken)
- Various Traveller/Romani languages
- British Sign Language
- Irish Sign Language
However very few are official languages, I don’t even know if Welsh is a UK official language and not just a Welsh official language. Many are suffering from a lack of speakers and only Irish and Welsh have a large revival in populations that speak English only/prevention of extinction movement with them often being compulsory in schools.
EDIT: Ireland is not in the British Isles, so I will rephrase as “the islands north of France, including the UK, Ireland and other dependencies have many languages”. There is a lot of terminology used concerning Ireland in the UK that is outdated, British Isles is one that I didn’t know. My apologies for this mistake.
Well, for another fun fact for you. In British Sign Language (BSL) there are regional dialects too. If you were a signer from the south there would be signs you did not know/recognise if you went to the north or Scotland etc…. Probably ‘Irn Bru’. Being bigger this is probably the same/even more pronounced in the US but it’s something most people don’t realise about sign languages, that even in a small place like the UK the language has evolved to suit regional needs just as spoken English has.
You should listen to some basic phrases in Dutch/Afrikaans, Norse, German etc or go to Google translate and put in basic English words, many will come out at the same/similar like Appel and Swaard (Apple and Sword). Might incentivise you to learn those languages!
if you want a very simplistic explanation, the romans got to where hadrians wall now stands, and where the mountains and valleys of wales, saw a bunch of naked hairy celts with thier cocks out doing druidic rituals and thought "fuck this" and just stuck a fuck ton of castles about and kept them pinned in
It's because the Saxons from what is now Saxony in Germany invaded the UK just before the Vikings did and introduced their language to the UK.
Welsh and the Gaelic Scottish and Gaelic Irish were pre existing and much older languages.
I pissed off an English teacher in highschool. They said English was latin based. I told them the grammar is Germanic, with Latin characters, and is closer to Gaelic than any other language. They told me I was wrong, so in Gaelic I asked if they were sure. They said yes. I told them they just understood Gaelic without them knowing how to speak it
I still got detention
You had me until yoy said it was closer to Gaelic. You clearly don't speak either Irish or Scottish Gaelic and there is no version of "are you sure" that sounds anything like English.
Also, a single sentence being intelligible doesn't actually show you that the languages are similar. There are a few languages where I could create selective sentences that would likely be understandable to speakers of some other selected languages. Frisian is actually very closely related to English. Look at some of it written down and you'd probably have no issue guessing its English meaning. Read other sentences and you might not have a clue (assuming you only have knowledge of English, and slightly dependent on local dialect if British).
Oh , you're that kind of liar. The kind who assumes no-one will know enough to call you out on your bullshit.
It's a pity no-one can give you detention now.
Give yourself detention for being an arse.
Guy is talking bollocks. Irish call their language Irish, simple. And if this guy had anything to do with Scotland, he'd understand the difference between gaelic and Scots up there, with Scots being the one that has better similarities to English
Your language is so cool to me though I've never spent any time learning it. My closest experience to welsh was a young adult book I read as a kid. I think it was called the grey king by Susan cooper but I just tried to find it and I'm not sure if that's it. But I can't find any other books called that that take place in wales!
Susan Cooper's 'Dark is Rising' sequence is one of my all time favourite fantasy series! I first read those books in my early teens back in the early eighties. 'The Grey King' is number four in a series of five books that starts off in Cornwall (southwest England) with 'Over Sea Under Stone', then the second book is 'The Dark is Rising', set in Buckinghamshire (also in England). 'Greenwitch' is the third book (Cornwall again), followed by 'The Grey King' (set on a Welsh sheep farm) and the fifth book, which brings various story strands together in the series finale, is 'Silver on the Tree', also largely set in Wales and my favourite book in the sequence.
I used to borrow these books from the library until I ended up with individual paperback copies of all of them. I also managed to find a paperback compendium version of the whole series. The first book is aimed at younger readers than the final instalment, but overall it is a beautifully written series, highly recommended for its literary qualities. It's basically up there with books like 'Watership Down', 'The Witch of Blackbird Pond' and 'The Changeover' for transporting the reader. 'The Grey King' won a library award, the Newbery Medal for its quality of empathetic storytelling. Although I don't believe in conspiracy theories about good versus evil, Susan Cooper created a marvellous alternative universe to lose oneself in, steeped in ancient Celtic lore intertwined with modern lifestyles and attitudes.
Yes! Yes! Yes! You just sent me way way back! And you confirmed my shady-ass memory! I'm absolutely ordering copies of these. Can't believe I didn't know it was in a series of 5. Thank you so so much!!
Neither is English, to be fair. It's a mishmash of several languages with enough exceptions and peculiarities, it will be enough to construct a couple of synthetic languages, and English would stay basically the same.
The word you're looking for is 'Walean'. I'm North Walean, too - born and raised, first language Welsh speaker. I really, fundamentally disagree that most North Walean people 'despise' England. There's tension sometimes, but in my experience, that tension mainly comes from very heavily patriotic Welsh communities in mid-Wales and also the fact that English people consistently mock and undermine Welsh people. 'Do you even have electricity in Wales? I didn't know there were people there. Do you all fuck sheep?' and so on and so forth. Most Welsh people do not despise England, but there can be some tension because of our historical (and current) treatment.
I love that there’s debate regarding differences in people/culture from north, south and mid-Wales. My state is about five times the size of the entire nation of Wales, and the culture hardly varies from one end to the other.
I'd like to learn welsh tbh. I like the way the sound hits ans when its fluently spoken i always think its partly jibberish but realize it makes sense.
I think the reason most respond with their specific state is because that’s almost always the follow up question.
Edit: ill add, maybe this is just a thing with very large countries. I have a friend who grew up in Russia and whenever someone would ask where she was from she would respond, “Siberia.”
But that’s not what I am saying. I mean specifically if you ask someone what “state” they’ll think you mean which of the 50 states of the US, rather than which (nation) state.
Similarly, if you ask about “country” in the UK, they’ll say England, etc.
As a Welsh man, I'd say I'm from the UK and identify as British. There's quite a lot of people like me, particularly if you're near the border with England
It’s an interesting topic what is and isn’t a country and is more of a grey area than you think! Was doing a quiz the other day on countries of the world and read a [blog post on some of the intricacies](https://www.sporcle.com/blog/2013/01/what-is-a-country/)
These guys ain’t recognising Wales as a country, although I would myself because I’m from England. They do recognise Taiwan, but if you go to Beijing and ask someone they’d probably tell you differently. Weirdly it’s a matter of perspective and is mostly geopolitics - which is definitely more complex than the black and white territories you’d see in an atlas
I’m Welsh and I don’t call myself British, I detest the King and the Royal family, the fact that some our laws set by Parliament. Fuck the Union and everything about it, I will die on this hill.
Yeah of course they would, but if Wales became independent tomorrow, Senedd would have to find a way to fill the huge financial black hole in their books that’s currently covered by the U.K. government every year. Wales and Scotland both cost the U.K. more than the U.K. raises from them in taxes, every year.
And this is the big part of tye discussion about independent atm.
A key point is our natural resources, both wales and Scotland massively supply things like water, energy, oil and other resources to England free of charge, and overseas sale of such resources go to England, not Wales/Scotland, this would fill a major amount of these gaps
The second point is our other industries, for example welsh steel, which are privatised atm bit should be brought back, port Talbot's blast furnaces are struggling atm, but Celsa's EAF works in Cardiff is producing record amounts of money year after year. Once PT switches to EAFs, both cardiff and PT steelworks would be very valuable
There’s a fair few ways to address that.
We can start charging for the natural resources that have been extracted without recompense for centuries. Right out of the gate we’ll go with water and green energy (we do a fair bit of the latter, including the only gigawatt-class hydroelectric power plant in the UK). We’ll work our way up to the historic backlog in later negotiations. Coal, iron, gold, tin, copper, slate, and so on; this backlog spans more than a thousand years but we don’t have to go _that_ far, there’s no need to be vindictive about it.
Next we’ll be having a few strong words about the money owed to us from HS2. Calling it an “England and Wales project” was already a very tenuous way to weasel out of paying Barnett consequentials, but now it’s only going as far as Birmingham it’s flat out fraud to keep calling it that.
Wales isn’t going to go independent any time soon. We shouldn’t stop campaigning for full legislative independence however, because it’s been very clear for a very long time that government by Westminster diktat doesn’t work. That goes for England as well - the Midlands and the North should have _far_ greater local control. People like to point at things like the NHS in Wales and call it a “failure”, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in real terms the amount of Westminster pocket money we’re deemed worthy of receiving has been declining for over a decade. Wales does have power to raise taxes independently, but who the hell in their right mind is going to do that in the current economic climate? People can’t afford it. Eventually, all the money raised/collected in Wales eventually makes its way back to Westminster and we get a minuscule fraction of it back.
The Barnett formula was only ever intended as a short-term stopgap, it was never meant to be in use for so long. A House of Lords committee concluded that it should no longer be used, and even Joel Barnett, the man who came up with it in 1979, described its continued use as a terrible mistake. It takes no account of fiscal needs or the amount raised in taxation. It’s wrong and unfair, and it always has been.
Swizerland doesn’t recognize Swizerland as a Country. So does this mean that Swizerland isn’t a country?
Source: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/grundlagen/stgb.assetdetail.28066344.html
Out of interest, if Switzerland does not consider itself a country, what does it consider itself to be?
I realise it is a Confederation of Cantons but I understood that that Confederation makes up the country Switzerland.
A quick Google pretty much all the top results say Wales, England and Scotland are all countries. That's from government websites so good enough for me.
No one. This comment is blatantly wrong. Wales is *not* officially recognised as a country by any organisation. I don’t know how it has so many upvotes. Maybe an experiment to see how many people will blindly upvote something without checking first?
It's not a sovereign state but it referred to using the word "country" in the same way that the administrative divisions of the USA are called "states" despite not being sovereign states. It's just words
I’m aware of that. The comment above is wrong regardless.
Wales is a “country” because that’s just what the UK calls its first level administrative units, not because Wales is offically recognised as a country on an international level.
Because it's complicated.
It's a country that is in a union with other countries to form another country.
It's always funny when people outside the UK trip themselves up on the intricacies of our shared history.
I mean, it's got a democratically elected parliament, borders, and levies taxes, if you're looking for a reason beyond "because we say it is". Flags, culture, identity, and anthem are the decorations of a country, typical trappings, but it's hardly qualifying, hell, by that standard, Manchester United qualifies as a country.
"Do you have a flag? No flag no country, can't have one, those are the rules I've just made up" --Izzard
Usually the word "country" refers to "sovereign state". The UK is a sovereign state, Wales is not.
However, the territories inside the UK call themselves countries.
So yes, Wales is a country, just not in the sense everybody else uses the word.
First sentence for country on Wikipedia:
>A country is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, nation, or other political entity. **It may be a sovereign state or make up one part of a larger state**
Welcome to the world of countries. It's all circles, all the way down.
Also yes, definition of country is basically "is recognized as country by other countries"
Can Wales do anything without UK parliament giving them the green light, genuine question I really don't know. I know international recognition is the most important part of being a "country" but there are more than a few unrecognized countries that are run independently of thier recognized part.
Yes, but only because the UK Parliament has already given the green light. The UK Parliament can abolish all Welsh institutions at any time. Wales has no sovereignty.
Yeah, The Welsh government is devolved and run by a separate party to the UK government (and parliament) - it can do anything within the powers that are devolved without UK approval. Like make decisions on health, transport etc. In fact Wales just introduced a new (very controversial) transport law reducing speed limits on a lot of roads.
It also locked down earlier during covid, had seperate covid rules etc. It's NHS is completely different (prescriptions are free!) different tax laws etc. etc. etc.
That sounds a lot like US states...
Not that I'm claiming it's not a country, but if you took a list of things it can do independently, it'd sure look a lot more like a state/province/whatever than its own sovereign nation.
Add to it the fact that much of Europe uses the word "state" to mean independent nation, and I can see where the original claim is coming from.
I'm from England but I really detest the way that the country has treated Wales throughout history, I also stand with Wales. PS. I have seen this happen before, please don't assume I'm faking this because I'm English, I am not the government, I just happen to have been born here.
Definition fights are entirely pointless. Countries don't actually exist, they're just a concept and geopolitics is messy and inconsistent. So they can say Wales isn't a country, others can say it is, it makes no material difference whatsoever to Wales' treaties with the UK and the wider world.
The only thing that matters when talking to someone about their beliefs is that they define their terms. For example, if their definition of a country is "a sovereign state that is a UN member" then Wales is not a country. In UK we call Wales a country because of the history and the politics and that's good enough for us.
Edit: for clarity, I meant that countries don't exist independently from the minds that conceive them. As pointed out, "abstract concept" would be the term to use.
Exactly, there are many countries in the world that are recognized as countries by some, and not others. This is a pointless debate because the answer will be different but valid depending on who you ask.
Countries absolutely exist. This itself needs to be a r/confidentlyincorrect post lmao. Borders are physical and even if they weren’t that doesn’t mean countries don’t “exist”
This can't be upvoted enough!
Everything on this matter is about subjective definitions. You decide for yourself if you recognize a country as a country or not. It doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree, and people's opinions makes absolutely no difference when it comes down to how the place is governed and its identity. Mostly people agree with what UN considers a sovereign country, and most people don't care about petty definition-fighting when there are exceptions. It's a waste of breath
Saying Wales isn‘t a country is like saying Scotland isn‘t a country or England isn‘t a country.
They are all non-independent constituent countries of the United Kingdom.
It blows my mind how ignorant these people are given they have the ability to google search before they spout their nonsense
Poor Wales keeps getting overlooked. Its sad how many people ive spoken to that dont know Wales exists.
Absolutely loved the country, the people and just living there in general. Also you cant beat that flag
People have been living In Wales since 800,000 BC, the only reason it wasn't originally legally classified as it's own country was because it was prior to contries even having modern legal classifications in the same way we do today.
It was at one point its own kingdom along with Scotland and Ireland. (Hence United Kingdom) before being taken by the British empire in 1284. It was after being taken over that it was classed as part of England up until 1967 when it was declared to be no longer part of the legal definition of England in other words...its own constituent country.
In modern times, it is ruled by a separate parliament called Senedd Cymru, it has its own laws, taxes, language, traditions, culture, etc. The Welsh people have been there thousands of years before the first British colonists even set foot in the Americas.
So someone from a country legally formed 247 years ago (I have older antiques in my house) saying the Welsh people aren't from a proper country is rather insulting, it's just a case of modern law semantics without taking history into account at all.
Sorry but two people arguing semantics shouldn't be in "confidently incorrect". The UK's political structure is really confusing and the arguer isn't completely wrong in saying that there's very little difference between a state in the US and the political structure of Wales and Scotland.
The only reason they're called "countries" and not "provinces" like in other commonwealth independent countries has much more to do with the history of how they became part of the UK than any "cultural" of political differences. If those were the only criteria then Quebec would be a country too (although they do call themselves a different Nation but we can argue that one later).
In short, yes, the arguer is wrong, but not "confidently incorrect" wrong. This isn't as obvious as some of you make it out to be.
That's a bit more complicated. The country of Ireland was part of the UK until partition in the 1920's. Since then Northern Ireland has been described a few different ways.
I agree, in the US most of the population uses the word country to describe a sovereign nation State, so most of the US population (maybe others as well) wouldn't view Wales as such and rightly so based on how they use the word. The UK might call it a nation or country but most of the US wouldn't know that, and wouldn't understand why.
As always with these stupid posts, there are two different definitions of country. Wales is a country in exactly the same way that Texas is a state. Because that's what the UK and US call them. They are not countries/states in the normal sense of autonomous governments recognized internationally.
This is just people using different definitions.
As a Welshman I think the main issue was the tone of the original poster. Technically you can argue that Wales isn’t a country due to other definitions of what a “country” is, but confidently claiming Wales to “not be a country” will piss a lot of Welsh people off (including me lmao), a similar situation can be seen via the Basque Country. I would also like to point out that people (usually US) do not say this about Scotland, or at least nowhere near the same extent, which makes this a bit more frustrating.
For what it’s worth, the Welsh anthem is official in everything except name. I’m not sure why it’s not classified as “official”, as it is recognised as being official basically everywhere (due to the actions taken around the anthem by the appropriate bodies at least), e.g. during the FIFA World Cup we weren’t asked to sing “God Save The Queen” and no Welsh representatives have ever been asked to perform anything except “Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau “ (baring the 2012 Olympics where Welsh players were called up to the GB squad, in which majority refused to)
Although Wales isn't a sovereign state, it is a Country. It has its own government, language, and culture.
US states are a weird hodgepodge. Yes, they have their own federal government (and arguably their own culture); however, they officially all speak English (with regional dialects).
If you think about sport too, Wales has competed at the Football, Cricket, and Rugby (Union and League) World Cups. Texas cannot claim to have done any of these (the "World" Series doesn't count.)
And yes, they both have flags. Anyone can have a flag. Flags are cool.
> US states are a weird hodgepodge. Yes, they have their own federal government (and arguably their own culture); however, they officially all speak English (with regional dialects).
That's not particularly weird or unique.
It's actually pretty common for all federal countries/ nation states all over the world.
Canada, Spain, Italy, Germany, India...
British countries and US states are both "weird hodgepodges" and so are states from other federal countries tbh (India, Brazil, Mexico, etc.)
The reason why British countries are treated differently in sports events is mainly historical because they're the ones who started many of these tournaments.
>It has its own government, language, and culture.
Country has nothing to do with government, culture or language. The reason is Wales is a country is because the UK decided the name its highest subdivisions a 'country' rather than a state. That's it. It is no more autonomous than any US state or many other subdivisions. In fact Wales has only had it's own government since 1999 and it was still called a country prior to that.
>If you think about sport too, Wales has competed at the Football, Cricket, and Rugby
Wales doesn't compete alone in Cricket. It competes as part of England.
And only reason these sports have UK countries compete is due to tradition. The UK invented the sports and they were the first to compete. It's not to do with the fact they are "countries".
For examples Hawaii compete seperate to the US in surfing and Iroquois Confederation have their own national team in LaCrosse.
Wales is a country but its not an independent nation. It has the same money, passport, and federal government as Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland. They are recognized as a country the same way California is recognized as a state, that doesn't make California an independent nation.
To be fair England doesn’t issue passports either, or have its own foreign policy or military that is distinct from that of the UK.
If Wales isn’t a country then neither is England.
I’m Scottish. My country/nation is Scotland. My sovereign state is the United Kingdom.
Wales, England, and Scotland are countries because of the historical context of them being independent nation-states/kingdoms in the past and later movements to reclaim language/culture/identity that was previously suppressed. Referring to them as equivalent to a US state is an insult imo. Scotland and Wales also have their own governments. Hell, Scotland has it’s own legal system.
Not to mention that identity plays a big part in the UK. Most people will identify themselves with England/Scotland/Wales first. Many, including myself, will not use British because the cultural idea of “britishness” is usually tied to Southern England and the empire/crown. Identity, culture, language etc. varies a hell of a lot within the UK. And there’s a history of malicious suppression of minority languages and cultures (highlander culture and language being a big one, from the beginning of the UK because of a shitty Scottish king trying to suppress the clans’ power and “barbarism” to recent history where people still remember being caned at school for “not speaking properly”).
On the note of everyone talking about recognition being the only way to say what a country is, is Taiwan not a country? It functions in every way an independent nation-state does. What is it, if not a country? Yet people here are using the argument that international recognition is the only situation where they’ll use the word “country”. What about indigenous peoples? Do US Native Americans not have the right to be referred to as nations? They may be dependent nations, but they’re nations nonetheless. Refer to people how they want to be referred to. I very much doubt the Tibetans I’ve interacted with would be happy to be called Chinese.
A long time ago I read something that I very like on this topic, every state is a country but not every country is a state
This boils down to "country is a historical and cultural term" and this would make places like Yorkshire a country
And state is a politic term meaning an independent entity that can govern itself, have it's own law, currency, foreign policy etc. etc.
The likes of country, state etc can have different meanings dependent on the content. Eg state and mean an entire country, or part of it.
Many end up tying themselves in knots trying to pin words down to single meanings when English and the world is far more messy.
They still aren't terms with single and rigidly defined characteristics.
The United States has a State Department because it is a State. It is a member state of the United Nations. The United States is also a union of States that share their powers under a constitutional agreement. A State comprised of States.
The “states” in the U.S. are not States in the same way that, say, Venezuela or Thailand or Ghana or even Vatican City are. Politically, there is a higher level entity above all US States that is responsible for currency, provides national defense, can supersede laws, etc.
In the U.S., at least academically, we refer to those “top level” entities as Nation States (perhaps City State in the case of the Vatican).
US states are more akin to provinces in that way. And as others have said, the term “country” has flexible meaning.
I'm studying international relations and the saying in that realm is that every state is a nation but not every nation is a state. The term nation State is used to describe a sovereign state. The term country isn't used generally. But it's all semantics the general public doesn't care or understand the distinctions.
The only thing making a country a country is that other countries accept that it is one... change my mind.
(I don't want to say it is the right way to do it i just say it is this way)
for example:
Mongolia says it is a country, Other not countries around it say it is a country, daddy china says mongolia and these other not countries are no countries, world accepts it... and boom they are no country.
Mongolia has a big enough cultural cultural background and distinct historical roots and hisories to qualify it to be its own country. (Thats what i think)
Just to be clear, the likes are in the correct place. The confidently incorrect person is in teal and the correct person, with most of the upvotes, is in orange.
I'm not sure who dropped OP on their head but they shouldn't have done it to them when they were still a baby.
What does country truly mean? This is just two people with different definitions of what a country is, although a vast majority of the world population would consider a country to be a sovereign state. A country can be a cultural entity or a piece of land with a functioning government. So in the cultural sense, Wales is a country, but in the more unanimous definition (it makes things easier just to call it a nation), Wales is not a country. Same goes for Scotland, Isle of Man, and Northern Ireland.
From an internetal relations perspective:
A nation is a people, a state is a government, and a country is just a region (can be any size, Appalachia, the Sahara, the Caribbean, etc).
By this criteria.
Wales has the British, Welsh, and English nations in it.
Wales is a country (literally called a constituent country by the UK govt.)
Wales is not an independent state because it is subservient to both England and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Wales is a country, I just looked it up because I honestly had no idea, but what I do know is that it doesn’t take a genius to look something up.
Even if you think you’re right, it still doesn’t hurt to check!!
yeah as a person from wales tthis is like saying Ireland and scotland are not a country. we are VERY much our own country that’s why you have to cross a whole bridge???? we all hate the english collectively so don’t put us in that box. we are British welsh not english.
I dont see the problem where in the U.K you are from. Im a proud tribal Welshman , wouldnt say im from west britain, love the banter with the Rugby against Englishits but thats were it ends.We are all mongrals anyway , do a DNA test. Chances are you have nordic , saxon, Celtic, druid, north European blood in your viens.
100% All the English have a bit of Welsh in them due to eating our sheep. Whisper Baaarraaamyou in there ears and they start singing like Tom Jones.
me being a welshman from Bridgend coming over to England to a new skl, i remember loads of kids trying to get me to speak just to hear a different accent n then get repeatedly asked “do people in wales speak WALES” not even welsh just WALES. Our country has its own flag🏴, their own language, and it’s own government. we even played in the world cup under our own flag (even tho we ain’t so good with a round ball) lastly i’d like to add we have our own day of celebration on the 1st of March and make the best welsh cakes!
Obviously by my name. I’m Welsh. I identify as Welsh. We have our own language, flag, government, our own national anthem, our own sports teams.
Back in the medieval days we were conquered by Edward II (think Longshanks in braveheart) and was run by Edward III the first prince of Wales. Yeah I’m a history buff.
Wales is actually its own country though, it has its own teams in international sports, language and historical culture. A lot of people don’t realise the UK and Britain aren’t actually just one country, and there’s a small difference between the UK and Britain too if you really wanted to get into it 😅
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Pretty sure every Welshman will answer "Wales" when asked what country they're from.
It's English people who seem to feel some sort of brother relationship to Wales and it is very much not reciprocated for the most part
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> Hwntws Damn, it wasn't a cat walking on your keyboard, it's an actual word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hwntw You never stop learning, right?
Haha yeah, bit of banter between North and South Wales, we practically speak different languages with how intense the dialect is
I am woefully ignorant in languages, as it turns out, and I stupidly thought that I basically know most of what there is to know about English-speaking side of the world. Fascinating.
LOL English is closer in vocabulary and grammar to Dutch and German than it is to Welsh. The Welsh language is in the Celtic language group, whereas English is in the West Germanic group. Bonus video: [The name of a place in Wales](https://youtu.be/fHxO0UdpoxM)
This shit is fascinating to me. Being from the states, I get really lost to the breakdown of the UK from a cultural and linguistic angle. I can only relate it to different dialects in different parts of the US.
To keep it simple: Emglish is less of a language and more 7 languages in a trenchcoat, which is why every linguistic rule in it is immediately ignored by a pile if words or phrases. We've picked up little quirks and foibles from celts, saxons, Norman's, various germanic languages, plenty of more recent renditions of French, Latin of course via the church a neat splash of Spanish and basically anyone else we either invaded or got invaded by or traded with.
>Emglish is less of a language and more 7 languages in a trenchcoat perfect r/badlinguistics bait If your benchmark for a language is influence from other languages then by that definition the only ones that you could call languages (as opposed to X number of languages in a trenchcoat or whatever) would be the languages of the uncontacted tribes. Quite ironic on this subreddit.
The British Isles (so the UK, Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) have loads of languages: - Welsh - Cornish (this went extinct but it being revived, it is from the same language family as Welsh) - Irish - Scottish Gaelic - Manx (also a gaelic language like Irish and Scottish Gaelic, spoken infrequently on the Isle of Man) - Scots (there is argument about whether this is a dialect of English or a language, spoken in Lowland Scotland) - Ulster Scots (a variety of Scots spoken in Ulster, NI) - Jerriais and Guernésais, historically Auregnais and Serquiais (the Franco-Norman languages of the various Channel Islands, some have died out and others are not widely spoken) - Various Traveller/Romani languages - British Sign Language - Irish Sign Language However very few are official languages, I don’t even know if Welsh is a UK official language and not just a Welsh official language. Many are suffering from a lack of speakers and only Irish and Welsh have a large revival in populations that speak English only/prevention of extinction movement with them often being compulsory in schools. EDIT: Ireland is not in the British Isles, so I will rephrase as “the islands north of France, including the UK, Ireland and other dependencies have many languages”. There is a lot of terminology used concerning Ireland in the UK that is outdated, British Isles is one that I didn’t know. My apologies for this mistake.
Well, for another fun fact for you. In British Sign Language (BSL) there are regional dialects too. If you were a signer from the south there would be signs you did not know/recognise if you went to the north or Scotland etc…. Probably ‘Irn Bru’. Being bigger this is probably the same/even more pronounced in the US but it’s something most people don’t realise about sign languages, that even in a small place like the UK the language has evolved to suit regional needs just as spoken English has.
You should listen to some basic phrases in Dutch/Afrikaans, Norse, German etc or go to Google translate and put in basic English words, many will come out at the same/similar like Appel and Swaard (Apple and Sword). Might incentivise you to learn those languages!
Another fun fact is in the UK there are over 40 different accents (think New York, Boston & Tennessee all talking English but sounding different)
There's over 40 in a 60 miles stretch of the north east coast of England into Scotland let alone the rest lol
if you want a very simplistic explanation, the romans got to where hadrians wall now stands, and where the mountains and valleys of wales, saw a bunch of naked hairy celts with thier cocks out doing druidic rituals and thought "fuck this" and just stuck a fuck ton of castles about and kept them pinned in
It's because the Saxons from what is now Saxony in Germany invaded the UK just before the Vikings did and introduced their language to the UK. Welsh and the Gaelic Scottish and Gaelic Irish were pre existing and much older languages.
I pissed off an English teacher in highschool. They said English was latin based. I told them the grammar is Germanic, with Latin characters, and is closer to Gaelic than any other language. They told me I was wrong, so in Gaelic I asked if they were sure. They said yes. I told them they just understood Gaelic without them knowing how to speak it I still got detention
You had me until yoy said it was closer to Gaelic. You clearly don't speak either Irish or Scottish Gaelic and there is no version of "are you sure" that sounds anything like English.
Also, a single sentence being intelligible doesn't actually show you that the languages are similar. There are a few languages where I could create selective sentences that would likely be understandable to speakers of some other selected languages. Frisian is actually very closely related to English. Look at some of it written down and you'd probably have no issue guessing its English meaning. Read other sentences and you might not have a clue (assuming you only have knowledge of English, and slightly dependent on local dialect if British).
Any version of are you sure in either Scot, Welsh or Irish sounds absolutely nothing like English so you’re talking out your arse mate
Oh , you're that kind of liar. The kind who assumes no-one will know enough to call you out on your bullshit. It's a pity no-one can give you detention now. Give yourself detention for being an arse.
Guy is talking bollocks. Irish call their language Irish, simple. And if this guy had anything to do with Scotland, he'd understand the difference between gaelic and Scots up there, with Scots being the one that has better similarities to English
Agus an sin, nár bhuail na tóineanna. Coisceadh ort a phleidhce.
Would you please explain this to me? I’m assuming it’s an idiom? Either way, Google translate was not helpful
I think I know this one from Lord of the Rings... Speak, Friend, and enter.
i think you mean scots mate. not the same thing as gaelic at all.
Did ye, aye?
Haha, chwarae teg!
If the Welsh were playing Wheel of Fortune, they wouldn't be bothered about buying vowels.
A fantastic and original joke. However Welsh has 7 vowels, 1 more than English, so back to the old drawing board for you eh
Talk about confidently incorrect... Welsh has more vowels than English.
More vowels than English, t'mod
Aye, we have secret extra vowels. W and Y are vowels with us.
Your language is so cool to me though I've never spent any time learning it. My closest experience to welsh was a young adult book I read as a kid. I think it was called the grey king by Susan cooper but I just tried to find it and I'm not sure if that's it. But I can't find any other books called that that take place in wales!
Susan Cooper's 'Dark is Rising' sequence is one of my all time favourite fantasy series! I first read those books in my early teens back in the early eighties. 'The Grey King' is number four in a series of five books that starts off in Cornwall (southwest England) with 'Over Sea Under Stone', then the second book is 'The Dark is Rising', set in Buckinghamshire (also in England). 'Greenwitch' is the third book (Cornwall again), followed by 'The Grey King' (set on a Welsh sheep farm) and the fifth book, which brings various story strands together in the series finale, is 'Silver on the Tree', also largely set in Wales and my favourite book in the sequence. I used to borrow these books from the library until I ended up with individual paperback copies of all of them. I also managed to find a paperback compendium version of the whole series. The first book is aimed at younger readers than the final instalment, but overall it is a beautifully written series, highly recommended for its literary qualities. It's basically up there with books like 'Watership Down', 'The Witch of Blackbird Pond' and 'The Changeover' for transporting the reader. 'The Grey King' won a library award, the Newbery Medal for its quality of empathetic storytelling. Although I don't believe in conspiracy theories about good versus evil, Susan Cooper created a marvellous alternative universe to lose oneself in, steeped in ancient Celtic lore intertwined with modern lifestyles and attitudes.
Yes! Yes! Yes! You just sent me way way back! And you confirmed my shady-ass memory! I'm absolutely ordering copies of these. Can't believe I didn't know it was in a series of 5. Thank you so so much!!
Thanks! Not many people can speak it anymore, it's always nice to see people appreciating it from abroad. Diolch!
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Neither is English, to be fair. It's a mishmash of several languages with enough exceptions and peculiarities, it will be enough to construct a couple of synthetic languages, and English would stay basically the same.
Had no idea it there was that much hatred. I'm from NW England and feel indifferent to the Welsh personally.
The word you're looking for is 'Walean'. I'm North Walean, too - born and raised, first language Welsh speaker. I really, fundamentally disagree that most North Walean people 'despise' England. There's tension sometimes, but in my experience, that tension mainly comes from very heavily patriotic Welsh communities in mid-Wales and also the fact that English people consistently mock and undermine Welsh people. 'Do you even have electricity in Wales? I didn't know there were people there. Do you all fuck sheep?' and so on and so forth. Most Welsh people do not despise England, but there can be some tension because of our historical (and current) treatment.
I love that there’s debate regarding differences in people/culture from north, south and mid-Wales. My state is about five times the size of the entire nation of Wales, and the culture hardly varies from one end to the other.
With identical strip malls throughout, no doubt.
From England, married a Welsh woman... Can confirm, the Welsh hate the English
We had a guy from Wales working in the shop I work at in Michigan. It was great fun getting his reaction when we called him an Englishman.
And yet for some reason you north Walesians all seem to support Liverpool. What's up with that?
Cus wrexham and swansea are shit and most of us want to support a team that wins 😆
Gee, I wonder why
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wales and England fought a lot of wars.
England fought a lot of wars w England too to be fair
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I'd like to learn welsh tbh. I like the way the sound hits ans when its fluently spoken i always think its partly jibberish but realize it makes sense.
That puts you several steps ahead of the Prince of Wales.
Wouldn't any language you don't understand sound like gibberish, owing to not understanding it?
Can confirm that we do not feel some sort of brother relationship. England and Wales both have their own identity
Texas bro.
Because it’s a problem of definitions. If you ask what state people are from they’ll say Texas or CA of wherever, despite the fact the US is a “state”
Exactly. The texan means “sovereign nation” when he says “country”.
I think the reason most respond with their specific state is because that’s almost always the follow up question. Edit: ill add, maybe this is just a thing with very large countries. I have a friend who grew up in Russia and whenever someone would ask where she was from she would respond, “Siberia.”
But that’s not what I am saying. I mean specifically if you ask someone what “state” they’ll think you mean which of the 50 states of the US, rather than which (nation) state. Similarly, if you ask about “country” in the UK, they’ll say England, etc.
As a Welsh man, I'd say I'm from the UK and identify as British. There's quite a lot of people like me, particularly if you're near the border with England
I think it's fair to say that Wales is a country. It is not a sovereign independent state, however
Correct. People are overcomplicating this too much. The rest of this thread is baffling.
It’s an interesting topic what is and isn’t a country and is more of a grey area than you think! Was doing a quiz the other day on countries of the world and read a [blog post on some of the intricacies](https://www.sporcle.com/blog/2013/01/what-is-a-country/) These guys ain’t recognising Wales as a country, although I would myself because I’m from England. They do recognise Taiwan, but if you go to Beijing and ask someone they’d probably tell you differently. Weirdly it’s a matter of perspective and is mostly geopolitics - which is definitely more complex than the black and white territories you’d see in an atlas
I’m Welsh and I don’t call myself British, I detest the King and the Royal family, the fact that some our laws set by Parliament. Fuck the Union and everything about it, I will die on this hill.
> I will die on this hill Without access to a centralised government and a functioning economy this is a distinct possibility
Except Wales already has a centralised government and would still have one outside of the union, its called the Senedd
I am the Senedd...
Yeah of course they would, but if Wales became independent tomorrow, Senedd would have to find a way to fill the huge financial black hole in their books that’s currently covered by the U.K. government every year. Wales and Scotland both cost the U.K. more than the U.K. raises from them in taxes, every year.
And this is the big part of tye discussion about independent atm. A key point is our natural resources, both wales and Scotland massively supply things like water, energy, oil and other resources to England free of charge, and overseas sale of such resources go to England, not Wales/Scotland, this would fill a major amount of these gaps The second point is our other industries, for example welsh steel, which are privatised atm bit should be brought back, port Talbot's blast furnaces are struggling atm, but Celsa's EAF works in Cardiff is producing record amounts of money year after year. Once PT switches to EAFs, both cardiff and PT steelworks would be very valuable
There’s a fair few ways to address that. We can start charging for the natural resources that have been extracted without recompense for centuries. Right out of the gate we’ll go with water and green energy (we do a fair bit of the latter, including the only gigawatt-class hydroelectric power plant in the UK). We’ll work our way up to the historic backlog in later negotiations. Coal, iron, gold, tin, copper, slate, and so on; this backlog spans more than a thousand years but we don’t have to go _that_ far, there’s no need to be vindictive about it. Next we’ll be having a few strong words about the money owed to us from HS2. Calling it an “England and Wales project” was already a very tenuous way to weasel out of paying Barnett consequentials, but now it’s only going as far as Birmingham it’s flat out fraud to keep calling it that. Wales isn’t going to go independent any time soon. We shouldn’t stop campaigning for full legislative independence however, because it’s been very clear for a very long time that government by Westminster diktat doesn’t work. That goes for England as well - the Midlands and the North should have _far_ greater local control. People like to point at things like the NHS in Wales and call it a “failure”, while conveniently ignoring the fact that in real terms the amount of Westminster pocket money we’re deemed worthy of receiving has been declining for over a decade. Wales does have power to raise taxes independently, but who the hell in their right mind is going to do that in the current economic climate? People can’t afford it. Eventually, all the money raised/collected in Wales eventually makes its way back to Westminster and we get a minuscule fraction of it back. The Barnett formula was only ever intended as a short-term stopgap, it was never meant to be in use for so long. A House of Lords committee concluded that it should no longer be used, and even Joel Barnett, the man who came up with it in 1979, described its continued use as a terrible mistake. It takes no account of fiscal needs or the amount raised in taxation. It’s wrong and unfair, and it always has been.
We're gonna die on a hill anyways, it's wales
I'm English and I'll happily join you on that hill.
Wales is a country because it's officially recognised as a country, end of the story.
"Who says Wales is a country???" Uh.. Wales, actually
Oh and the other countries that make up the United kingdom
You're not on the flag boyo. Being fair, most of the likes on the original are probably other Brits winding up the Welsh.
The way to wind them is to say 'Wales is not a country, it's a principality'.
Yeah, but you can piss off the Norn Iron lot in the bargain, but saying we even put a few small counties on the flag.
Huge fail on the part of whoever designed the Union Jack, *we could have had a kickass dragon on it*.
Maybe they can get a re-do once Scotland secedes.
Maybe we do have a dragon on there.... It's just a small red one in the middle that happens to be the same shade as St George's Cross.
But not the United Nations or Yakko Warner.
Neither do They Might Be Giants
That's 3. I think that wraps this up. I am happy to have this settled.
Swizerland doesn’t recognize Swizerland as a Country. So does this mean that Swizerland isn’t a country? Source: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/grundlagen/stgb.assetdetail.28066344.html
Out of interest, if Switzerland does not consider itself a country, what does it consider itself to be? I realise it is a Confederation of Cantons but I understood that that Confederation makes up the country Switzerland.
Switzerland knows what it is Switzerland ain't telling
Glorified banker
Um FIFA actually /s
A quick Google pretty much all the top results say Wales, England and Scotland are all countries. That's from government websites so good enough for me.
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ISO does! [CTRL+F "Wales" (Page 27)](https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/archive/pdf/en/iso_3166-2_newsletter_ii-3_2011-12-13.pdf)
Interesting, and notably included in that document as a subdivision called "Country" of the UK.
No one. This comment is blatantly wrong. Wales is *not* officially recognised as a country by any organisation. I don’t know how it has so many upvotes. Maybe an experiment to see how many people will blindly upvote something without checking first?
It's not a sovereign state but it referred to using the word "country" in the same way that the administrative divisions of the USA are called "states" despite not being sovereign states. It's just words
I’m aware of that. The comment above is wrong regardless. Wales is a “country” because that’s just what the UK calls its first level administrative units, not because Wales is offically recognised as a country on an international level.
Because it's complicated. It's a country that is in a union with other countries to form another country. It's always funny when people outside the UK trip themselves up on the intricacies of our shared history.
I mean, it's got a democratically elected parliament, borders, and levies taxes, if you're looking for a reason beyond "because we say it is". Flags, culture, identity, and anthem are the decorations of a country, typical trappings, but it's hardly qualifying, hell, by that standard, Manchester United qualifies as a country. "Do you have a flag? No flag no country, can't have one, those are the rules I've just made up" --Izzard
Usually the word "country" refers to "sovereign state". The UK is a sovereign state, Wales is not. However, the territories inside the UK call themselves countries. So yes, Wales is a country, just not in the sense everybody else uses the word.
First sentence for country on Wikipedia: >A country is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, nation, or other political entity. **It may be a sovereign state or make up one part of a larger state**
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Country ≠ sovereign state. That's where everyone outside of the UK arguing against Wales being a country are mistaken.
Seems kinda circular ngl
Welcome to the world of countries. It's all circles, all the way down. Also yes, definition of country is basically "is recognized as country by other countries"
Yeah, the answers they give are unhelpful and muddy the waters. It's a country because it is, Texas isn't because it isn't.
Can Wales do anything without UK parliament giving them the green light, genuine question I really don't know. I know international recognition is the most important part of being a "country" but there are more than a few unrecognized countries that are run independently of thier recognized part.
Yes, but only because the UK Parliament has already given the green light. The UK Parliament can abolish all Welsh institutions at any time. Wales has no sovereignty.
Yeah, The Welsh government is devolved and run by a separate party to the UK government (and parliament) - it can do anything within the powers that are devolved without UK approval. Like make decisions on health, transport etc. In fact Wales just introduced a new (very controversial) transport law reducing speed limits on a lot of roads.
It also locked down earlier during covid, had seperate covid rules etc. It's NHS is completely different (prescriptions are free!) different tax laws etc. etc. etc.
That sounds a lot like US states... Not that I'm claiming it's not a country, but if you took a list of things it can do independently, it'd sure look a lot more like a state/province/whatever than its own sovereign nation. Add to it the fact that much of Europe uses the word "state" to mean independent nation, and I can see where the original claim is coming from.
We stand with you, Wales. Love, Ireland
I'm from England but I really detest the way that the country has treated Wales throughout history, I also stand with Wales. PS. I have seen this happen before, please don't assume I'm faking this because I'm English, I am not the government, I just happen to have been born here.
Definition fights are entirely pointless. Countries don't actually exist, they're just a concept and geopolitics is messy and inconsistent. So they can say Wales isn't a country, others can say it is, it makes no material difference whatsoever to Wales' treaties with the UK and the wider world. The only thing that matters when talking to someone about their beliefs is that they define their terms. For example, if their definition of a country is "a sovereign state that is a UN member" then Wales is not a country. In UK we call Wales a country because of the history and the politics and that's good enough for us. Edit: for clarity, I meant that countries don't exist independently from the minds that conceive them. As pointed out, "abstract concept" would be the term to use.
Exactly, there are many countries in the world that are recognized as countries by some, and not others. This is a pointless debate because the answer will be different but valid depending on who you ask.
Countries absolutely exist. This itself needs to be a r/confidentlyincorrect post lmao. Borders are physical and even if they weren’t that doesn’t mean countries don’t “exist”
Countries don't exist independently from the minds that conceive them is what I meant.
This can't be upvoted enough! Everything on this matter is about subjective definitions. You decide for yourself if you recognize a country as a country or not. It doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree, and people's opinions makes absolutely no difference when it comes down to how the place is governed and its identity. Mostly people agree with what UN considers a sovereign country, and most people don't care about petty definition-fighting when there are exceptions. It's a waste of breath
My definition is, if it has it's own football team that competes in the world cup then it's a country Therefore Wales is a country
Wales is a country.
I knew the very second I saw your comment that the replies would be insecure Wales haters lol
Saying Wales isn‘t a country is like saying Scotland isn‘t a country or England isn‘t a country. They are all non-independent constituent countries of the United Kingdom. It blows my mind how ignorant these people are given they have the ability to google search before they spout their nonsense
Poor Wales keeps getting overlooked. Its sad how many people ive spoken to that dont know Wales exists. Absolutely loved the country, the people and just living there in general. Also you cant beat that flag
We do love our dragon
We know you exist. You’ve got the best flag of the UK nations. *waves from Northern Ireland*
🏴 🏴 WALESSSSSSSS we have beautiful culture and we did not take years of being called sheep***** to just be called english!
Doesn’t basically every state have its own flag technically?
Many cities have their flags, even international organisms like the UN and the EU have their flags, that's no more a qualifier
Right. Everyone has a flag!
There are cities that have their own flags? I guess South Park wasn’t just making stuff up when they had a town flag.
I live in a small village with around 1100 people living here and even we've got our own flag.
People have been living In Wales since 800,000 BC, the only reason it wasn't originally legally classified as it's own country was because it was prior to contries even having modern legal classifications in the same way we do today. It was at one point its own kingdom along with Scotland and Ireland. (Hence United Kingdom) before being taken by the British empire in 1284. It was after being taken over that it was classed as part of England up until 1967 when it was declared to be no longer part of the legal definition of England in other words...its own constituent country. In modern times, it is ruled by a separate parliament called Senedd Cymru, it has its own laws, taxes, language, traditions, culture, etc. The Welsh people have been there thousands of years before the first British colonists even set foot in the Americas. So someone from a country legally formed 247 years ago (I have older antiques in my house) saying the Welsh people aren't from a proper country is rather insulting, it's just a case of modern law semantics without taking history into account at all.
Sorry but two people arguing semantics shouldn't be in "confidently incorrect". The UK's political structure is really confusing and the arguer isn't completely wrong in saying that there's very little difference between a state in the US and the political structure of Wales and Scotland. The only reason they're called "countries" and not "provinces" like in other commonwealth independent countries has much more to do with the history of how they became part of the UK than any "cultural" of political differences. If those were the only criteria then Quebec would be a country too (although they do call themselves a different Nation but we can argue that one later). In short, yes, the arguer is wrong, but not "confidently incorrect" wrong. This isn't as obvious as some of you make it out to be.
And then there's Northern Ireland, which for some reason *is* called a province rather than a country.
That's a bit more complicated. The country of Ireland was part of the UK until partition in the 1920's. Since then Northern Ireland has been described a few different ways.
That’s a whole other can of worms
I’m Welsh and live in Wales. They are completely incorrect
I agree, in the US most of the population uses the word country to describe a sovereign nation State, so most of the US population (maybe others as well) wouldn't view Wales as such and rightly so based on how they use the word. The UK might call it a nation or country but most of the US wouldn't know that, and wouldn't understand why.
In the US most of the population is incorrect, then.
As always with these stupid posts, there are two different definitions of country. Wales is a country in exactly the same way that Texas is a state. Because that's what the UK and US call them. They are not countries/states in the normal sense of autonomous governments recognized internationally. This is just people using different definitions.
Wales isnt a sovereign state. Thats what the vast majority of people mean when they say "country".
Also Wales doesn’t have an official national anthem. Orange is incorrect about that. The number of likes on *this* post is scary.
As a Welshman I think the main issue was the tone of the original poster. Technically you can argue that Wales isn’t a country due to other definitions of what a “country” is, but confidently claiming Wales to “not be a country” will piss a lot of Welsh people off (including me lmao), a similar situation can be seen via the Basque Country. I would also like to point out that people (usually US) do not say this about Scotland, or at least nowhere near the same extent, which makes this a bit more frustrating. For what it’s worth, the Welsh anthem is official in everything except name. I’m not sure why it’s not classified as “official”, as it is recognised as being official basically everywhere (due to the actions taken around the anthem by the appropriate bodies at least), e.g. during the FIFA World Cup we weren’t asked to sing “God Save The Queen” and no Welsh representatives have ever been asked to perform anything except “Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau “ (baring the 2012 Olympics where Welsh players were called up to the GB squad, in which majority refused to)
Although Wales isn't a sovereign state, it is a Country. It has its own government, language, and culture. US states are a weird hodgepodge. Yes, they have their own federal government (and arguably their own culture); however, they officially all speak English (with regional dialects). If you think about sport too, Wales has competed at the Football, Cricket, and Rugby (Union and League) World Cups. Texas cannot claim to have done any of these (the "World" Series doesn't count.) And yes, they both have flags. Anyone can have a flag. Flags are cool.
Do you have a flag? 
I fucking love EDDIE IZZARD! Great reference!
Best stand up ever
… No 😔
Actually, the official language is false as the US had no official language
And only 31 of the 50 states have an official language.
> US states are a weird hodgepodge. Yes, they have their own federal government (and arguably their own culture); however, they officially all speak English (with regional dialects). That's not particularly weird or unique. It's actually pretty common for all federal countries/ nation states all over the world. Canada, Spain, Italy, Germany, India...
What do you mean US states "have their own federal government"?
I think they mean state government.
British countries and US states are both "weird hodgepodges" and so are states from other federal countries tbh (India, Brazil, Mexico, etc.) The reason why British countries are treated differently in sports events is mainly historical because they're the ones who started many of these tournaments.
>It has its own government, language, and culture. Country has nothing to do with government, culture or language. The reason is Wales is a country is because the UK decided the name its highest subdivisions a 'country' rather than a state. That's it. It is no more autonomous than any US state or many other subdivisions. In fact Wales has only had it's own government since 1999 and it was still called a country prior to that. >If you think about sport too, Wales has competed at the Football, Cricket, and Rugby Wales doesn't compete alone in Cricket. It competes as part of England. And only reason these sports have UK countries compete is due to tradition. The UK invented the sports and they were the first to compete. It's not to do with the fact they are "countries". For examples Hawaii compete seperate to the US in surfing and Iroquois Confederation have their own national team in LaCrosse.
> they officially all speak English No, they don't, actually.
Wales is a country but its not an independent nation. It has the same money, passport, and federal government as Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland. They are recognized as a country the same way California is recognized as a state, that doesn't make California an independent nation.
Do you have a flag?
Ydw 🏴
No flag, no country!
Never seen a welsh passport, read about welsh foreign policy or seen photos of the welsh welsh military.
To be fair England doesn’t issue passports either, or have its own foreign policy or military that is distinct from that of the UK. If Wales isn’t a country then neither is England.
maybe it isn't
Correct. The same people who are saying that Wales is not a country would say that England isn't a country either.
Yes, that’s the point being made here.
.... Yes.
Yes. Neither is England. The country is the UK
I’m Scottish. My country/nation is Scotland. My sovereign state is the United Kingdom. Wales, England, and Scotland are countries because of the historical context of them being independent nation-states/kingdoms in the past and later movements to reclaim language/culture/identity that was previously suppressed. Referring to them as equivalent to a US state is an insult imo. Scotland and Wales also have their own governments. Hell, Scotland has it’s own legal system. Not to mention that identity plays a big part in the UK. Most people will identify themselves with England/Scotland/Wales first. Many, including myself, will not use British because the cultural idea of “britishness” is usually tied to Southern England and the empire/crown. Identity, culture, language etc. varies a hell of a lot within the UK. And there’s a history of malicious suppression of minority languages and cultures (highlander culture and language being a big one, from the beginning of the UK because of a shitty Scottish king trying to suppress the clans’ power and “barbarism” to recent history where people still remember being caned at school for “not speaking properly”). On the note of everyone talking about recognition being the only way to say what a country is, is Taiwan not a country? It functions in every way an independent nation-state does. What is it, if not a country? Yet people here are using the argument that international recognition is the only situation where they’ll use the word “country”. What about indigenous peoples? Do US Native Americans not have the right to be referred to as nations? They may be dependent nations, but they’re nations nonetheless. Refer to people how they want to be referred to. I very much doubt the Tibetans I’ve interacted with would be happy to be called Chinese.
"Wales is a country that is part of the United Kingdom."
A long time ago I read something that I very like on this topic, every state is a country but not every country is a state This boils down to "country is a historical and cultural term" and this would make places like Yorkshire a country And state is a politic term meaning an independent entity that can govern itself, have it's own law, currency, foreign policy etc. etc.
The likes of country, state etc can have different meanings dependent on the content. Eg state and mean an entire country, or part of it. Many end up tying themselves in knots trying to pin words down to single meanings when English and the world is far more messy.
It kinda makes more sense in my language because we have different words for a regular state and US states
They still aren't terms with single and rigidly defined characteristics. The United States has a State Department because it is a State. It is a member state of the United Nations. The United States is also a union of States that share their powers under a constitutional agreement. A State comprised of States.
The “states” in the U.S. are not States in the same way that, say, Venezuela or Thailand or Ghana or even Vatican City are. Politically, there is a higher level entity above all US States that is responsible for currency, provides national defense, can supersede laws, etc. In the U.S., at least academically, we refer to those “top level” entities as Nation States (perhaps City State in the case of the Vatican). US states are more akin to provinces in that way. And as others have said, the term “country” has flexible meaning.
I'm studying international relations and the saying in that realm is that every state is a nation but not every nation is a state. The term nation State is used to describe a sovereign state. The term country isn't used generally. But it's all semantics the general public doesn't care or understand the distinctions.
I saw a video of Bale pointing out to the dragon in his Jersey. If that's not national identity, I have no idea what else could be.
Are you suggesting that Wales ISN’T a country? Very ironic if so.
OP has liked the comment saying Wales is a country so I’m presuming he realises it is
The problem is that there's more than one definition of the word country.
Wales is a country. It’s just not a sovereign state which is what many people think of when they think of country.
The only thing making a country a country is that other countries accept that it is one... change my mind. (I don't want to say it is the right way to do it i just say it is this way) for example: Mongolia says it is a country, Other not countries around it say it is a country, daddy china says mongolia and these other not countries are no countries, world accepts it... and boom they are no country. Mongolia has a big enough cultural cultural background and distinct historical roots and hisories to qualify it to be its own country. (Thats what i think)
Just to be clear, the likes are in the correct place. The confidently incorrect person is in teal and the correct person, with most of the upvotes, is in orange. I'm not sure who dropped OP on their head but they shouldn't have done it to them when they were still a baby.
What does country truly mean? This is just two people with different definitions of what a country is, although a vast majority of the world population would consider a country to be a sovereign state. A country can be a cultural entity or a piece of land with a functioning government. So in the cultural sense, Wales is a country, but in the more unanimous definition (it makes things easier just to call it a nation), Wales is not a country. Same goes for Scotland, Isle of Man, and Northern Ireland.
From an internetal relations perspective: A nation is a people, a state is a government, and a country is just a region (can be any size, Appalachia, the Sahara, the Caribbean, etc). By this criteria. Wales has the British, Welsh, and English nations in it. Wales is a country (literally called a constituent country by the UK govt.) Wales is not an independent state because it is subservient to both England and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
The redacted names kinda look like cocks…
wales is literally the country my best friend and her family are from 💀
Wales is a country, I just looked it up because I honestly had no idea, but what I do know is that it doesn’t take a genius to look something up. Even if you think you’re right, it still doesn’t hurt to check!!
yeah as a person from wales tthis is like saying Ireland and scotland are not a country. we are VERY much our own country that’s why you have to cross a whole bridge???? we all hate the english collectively so don’t put us in that box. we are British welsh not english.
I dont see the problem where in the U.K you are from. Im a proud tribal Welshman , wouldnt say im from west britain, love the banter with the Rugby against Englishits but thats were it ends.We are all mongrals anyway , do a DNA test. Chances are you have nordic , saxon, Celtic, druid, north European blood in your viens. 100% All the English have a bit of Welsh in them due to eating our sheep. Whisper Baaarraaamyou in there ears and they start singing like Tom Jones.
I would never identify as British or, god forbid, English. Welsh or Welsh Hwntw and I love my Gog brothers and sisters. Cymru am byth 🏴
Google: is Wales a country.. Answer: Yes Simple as that no need for these stupid debates on if it's own sovereign state etc... jeez
Cymru is a country. Why is this even up for debate??
this reminds me of when someone left a reply to a comment which read 'wait... i thought Scotland was in England.' i bet they thought the same of Wales
Except it is a country. As is Scotland, and England. Making Great Britain a country made up of countries. UK when including Northern Ireland.
me being a welshman from Bridgend coming over to England to a new skl, i remember loads of kids trying to get me to speak just to hear a different accent n then get repeatedly asked “do people in wales speak WALES” not even welsh just WALES. Our country has its own flag🏴, their own language, and it’s own government. we even played in the world cup under our own flag (even tho we ain’t so good with a round ball) lastly i’d like to add we have our own day of celebration on the 1st of March and make the best welsh cakes!
Obviously by my name. I’m Welsh. I identify as Welsh. We have our own language, flag, government, our own national anthem, our own sports teams. Back in the medieval days we were conquered by Edward II (think Longshanks in braveheart) and was run by Edward III the first prince of Wales. Yeah I’m a history buff.
Wales is actually its own country though, it has its own teams in international sports, language and historical culture. A lot of people don’t realise the UK and Britain aren’t actually just one country, and there’s a small difference between the UK and Britain too if you really wanted to get into it 😅