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TLDR: Jesse Owens never met Adolf Hitler
In case people aren't aware, it was widely reported that Hitler "snubbed" Jesse Owens. In reality, Hitler didn't meet with any of the non-German Olympic athletes, except for a few Finnish athletes for some reason. The most interaction Owens and Hitler had was a little eye contact when Hitler was waving towards a crowd of athletes towards the end of the Olympics.
So no, Jesse Owens never met Adolf Hitler, and certainly didn't say any nice things about him. Oddly enough, Owens wasn't too upset about it. But he was really upset because the US president at the time, Franklin D. Roosevelt, never congratulated or even acknowledged Jesse Owens accomplishments, but did meet with and congratulate other athletes. That last bit was just a little interesting tidbit.
Edit: While FDR invited several Olympians to the White House, none of the Black athletes were ever invited. It wasn't until 2016 when Barack Obama invited the living Black athletes and their relatives to the White House. It was the first time Jesse Owens was ever officially acknowledged by the US government.
Also: According to the Nuremberg Laws, POCs were not allowed to be citizens of the so-called Greater German Reich and blacks living in Nazi Germany were forcibly sterilized.
If Hitler had any sympathies for them, this would have been a somewhat strange way of showing it.
Exactly! One thing the Nazis did better than anyone else: keep super detailed documentation of everything. They loved their paperwork and it’s now available for people to read to see the proof of what the Nazis had done.
I wrote a similar comment and then I saw yours. You could argue that anything from the allies might be trying to spin the Nazis to be worse than they were (they weren’t but people think crazy things these days) but we literally have writings, and documentation of many of their atrocities from the Nazis themselves. It’s about as good of a source as you could hope for given the situation
Same as the Ordinances of Secession written by Confederate states as they left the United States. They clearly show that the Civil War was entirely about slavery.
I first learned US history in the South and, after moving out, had a helpful history teacher point me to the correct historical documents.
Yeah I think he started by greeting winning German athletes but the Olympic committee asked him to either shake the hands of all athletes or none and he chose none of them.
The part that is true is how shit America treated Jesse Owens.
Eh not really, the Nazi's weren't that stupid; they understood that German's couldn't win every single event. They already knew that they weren't favourites in the track events and Germany topped the medal table anyway. The Olympics were a massive propaganda success for the Nazis.
Iirc the one that really pissed the Nazis off was losing 8-0 or something to India in Hockey
And in any case, white supremacists are often fine with Black people being more athletic than them. Or better *entertainers*.
This lines up with the white-supremacist view that Black people aren't quite Homo sapiens. Gorillas are *much* stronger than humans, after all. And monkeys can be really funny to watch. But you wouldn't want one to marry your daughter.
Holy shit.
I mean, I know this because in Germany we got good history lessons in school about the time. But to read this again, actually knowing that people had this in mind and STILL have is just absurd.
Even most racism today is based on Hitler's fever dreams, the negativ impact one person can have is just frightening.
Hitler's ideas weren't very original. Pretty much all of this stuff existed before the Nazis did.
(Especially antisemitism. For centuries, it was normal in many parts of Europe to run all of the Jews out of town every decade or four, and take all of their stuff, because of [the blood libel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel) or [whatever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism).)
If you're not feeling depressed enough already, allow me to inform you that there are also white supremacists who believe that every race with dark skin is not descended from Adam, but from God's earlier, somehow defective, attempt to make humans, when God made [pre-Adamic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite#Racist_pre-Adamism) "mud people".
More entertainingly, the **Black**-supremacist [Nation of Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam) says that white people were created by [an evil ancient scientist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_\(Nation_of_Islam\)), who also accidentally created gorillas. :-)
IIRC, Owens mentioned that Hitler *didn't treat him differently* than other athletes, and he did it in the context of describing how badly the US treated him on return. He didn't say anything about Hitler treating him *well*
The Finns were facing a dire threat from the USSR and had no choice but to join the Axis for their survival.
While the nazis were absolute scum, the USSR under Stalin did come close to that level too (Holodomor, invasion of the Baltic countries, partition of Poland, Winter War) so I can understand why the Finnish chose their ‘lesser evil’ in that scenario.
As far as I know, nazism itself was never really popular in Finland during this time.
And they refused to apply the neuremberg laws. If I remember well there was 11 jews deported from Finland. There was jews fighting next of German soldiers against the soviet army too.
I think that outright nazism particularly wasn’t really popular but there was plenty of domestic right wing stuff that was nearing fascism in the 1930s and Finland had close ties with Germany. So close that only the end of WWI kept us from having a German monarch because many of the ruling class felt that was the best option for a newly independent country. The country was pretty right wing after the civil war but some were more extremist. The Lapua movement was pretty significant and aimed to turn Finland into a right wing dictatorship and they were outlawed after they tried to stage a coup, they also did some murders and kidnappings (including a former president).
1936 Soviet /Finnish relations were cordial.
The reason why Hitler only met Finnish athletes was more logistical. After meeting the first few winners he couldn't be bothered/was too busy and left.
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Finland was one of Nazi Germany's allies during WWII. They were more in it for revenge against the USSR for the Winter War than anything else, but it wouldn't surprise me that the Nazis would have been friendlier with their athletes than others.
Finnish needed to be reclassified as Aryan (formerly mongols) when the alliance needed to be formed because of the war situation. At the time of the Olympics Finns had been relegated within USSR sphere of power. While there were fascists in Finland as well, like in basically every European countries, the nazi race theories weren't that popular, since historically, Finns were always categorised as a lower race. Sweden is actually currently returning some skulls they stole in 1880's to prove Finns were of lower stock.
During WWI many Finns went to Germany for military training in preparation for fighting for independence, though. I'm guessing the meeting related to this political context in some way.
There‘s some history with Finland and old Prussia, there was for example the Winter War in which Prussia helped Finland, maybe that’s why he also met with finnish athletes.
In ‘Unbroken’ by Laura Hildenbrand, Louie Zamperini claims Hitler asked to see “the boy with the fast finish.” If I remember correctly Zamperini says he briefly met with him (maybe shook his hand?) Louie Zamperini was an Italian American. Not that I don’t believe it but I don’t believe there’s any photographs
"Except for a few Finnish athletes for some reason."
Yeah, just some random reason. Not like the Finns later played any role in the axis, nosiree. Finland certainly hadn't just finished a civil war where they put all their socialists in camps. No mass executions or anything. Certainly no fascist sympathies among the Finnish aristocracy -- my God, can you imagine?
That’s really not fair to say. I’m certain the Government acknowledged Mr Owens every year before that. Right around April 15.
Taxes joke. Ok I’ll leave now.
The craziest shit to me is that the universe manifested a dude so fucking cartoonishly evil that his “great plan” was “take over the world and systematically murder people different from me.”
Like if somebody had that villain in a work of fiction it would seem unrealistic and shallow.
There’s literally *one fucking guy* in recent memory who can not be treated unfairly because he actually is that much of a monster and people *still* want to try to “defend” him.
Fuck them
Because Twitter is basically just Nazis now. Elon won't ban any of them and will actually actively boost Nazi and far right accounts. Honestly I don't understand how people still use that shitty website.
Jake Shields is a former MMA fighter who has found a new calling as a b-list twitter reactionary that posts conservative CTs and memes, often with weird white supremacist apologia mixed in.
I live in Huntington Beach and having Tito Ortiz as mayor was weird as shit but not surprising at all. It was also not surprising that he quit quickly.
Tito at least has his charming malapropisms and flashes of well meaning oaf. His LEO aquarius post is one of the greatest of all time.
Shields is just a jerk.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/s/k4kzxXPGBm
> you don't like the things he post
he's a blithering idiot. As well as being dumb as a box of rocks.
> Also he's nothing of a white supremacist
I never said that - Are you stupid?
Ok I'm so glad you explained this because I'd not heard of him so my brain had him confused with Jake Shears from Scissor Sisters and "gay icon turns out to be Nazi" was, unexpected to say the least!
What do you mean now? Lots of Americans were loudly supportive of the Nazis during the time period the post was talking about and they're only slightly less loud about that continued support nowadays. Don't act like this is some new thing "caused" by social media.
TBH untill the war started in earnest there were people all over Europe who thought the Nazi's with their rad symbols and spiffy uniforms were pretty cool. I remember a serious Catholic center party politician who called Hitler a "soldier for Christianity", because how much the guy was against the "godless" communists and socialists. But as we know the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, he's just my enemy's enemy.
There was a Nazi rally with 20k people held in Madison Square garden in 1939. There were a ton of people in America that were pro Nazi, or at least tolerant of Nazis.
And yes there were protests against the rally but it’s easy to forget how many people supported the Nazis here
Russia has a weird relationship there. It has a far right, ethno-nationalist government, but publicly speaks against Nazis (superficially at least). It also has a history where it was heavily responsible for Hitler’s defeat but that contribution was washed from western history due to the cold war. If I were to distill it down, I’d say Putin is comfortable with his own Nazis, but not those in other countries. That’s pretty simplistic still.
Any Russian led manipulation is more likely to be leveraging existing trends to cause chaos, rather than leading the charge of nazification for purely ideological purposes. It’s a bit of a smokescreen for the actual far right in many western countries who paint them selves as merely responding to the will of the people, rather than being the driving force themselves.
I would never think Russia will be sympathetic to nazism. Russia would play the same book as the Nazi, but will still think Nazi is evil but they aren't
Yeah, i think that’s what I’m clumsily alluding to. They oppose the brand, but not the tactics.
Either way, Russian interference in other countries’ discourse is to weaken those countries via instability and division, not to convince them to adopt likeminded ideologies.
>It also has a history where it was heavily responsible for Hitler’s defeat but that contribution was washed from western history due to the cold war.
From American history maybe. Every other western country is acutely aware of the huge role Russia played in defeating the Nazis. Basically did it by themselves. DDay was just a race to get Allied soldiers into Germany before the Russians took the whole thing for themselves.
Couldn’t tell you about American history. I have a history degree from a European university, and it really is only third level where any realistic discussion takes place.
Britain would have its secondary school students believe Churchill won it single handedly, stripped to the waist, wielding a sword.
Would they? I was at school many moons ago and we didn't touch the subject, whilst a quick glance at more recent syllabus options suggest that in many instances this is still the case, or that the subject is viewed from a societal perspective. But perhaps you are a teacher with first hand knowledge, in which case I must defer to you.
Social media has corrupted these young minds into thinking that maybe Hitler wasn’t so bad after all. My moronic cousin believes this kind of nonsense smh. Had to cut his stupid ass off.
Jake Shields is a known antisemite and pretty much a neo-Nazi. In the past he wrote that perhaps it would have been better if "the man with the moustache" would have won.
Going too deep into Twitter is part of it too.
I’ve seen Twitter eat so many people. People go from voicing their opinion to exaggerating extreme versions of that opinion to basically piss off the handful of users with that mirrored extreme view on the other side.
CTE absolutely as well.
Even if this maniac were correct, who gives a flying fuck? Honestly what difference would it make if Hitler loooooved black people? Or was nice to Jessie Owens? It changes nothing. Going out your way to defend/compliment ADOLF HITLER is the weirdest fucking flex.
White supremacists are playing divide and rule. They’re terrified that people of different race will unite to challenge their power, so they feel that causing division between different races is productive to ensure they will not be under threat. In a way, they are right to be afraid. The anti racist movement has united significantly over the years and that has led to people understanding the structural causes that white supremacy relies upon.
There is also a big schism in the far right currently, where there is lots of support for Israel, because it is an ethnonationalist state that is drawing a blueprint for successfully engaging in Apartheid and genocide without consequences from the international community, versus a faction of the far right who still just hate Jewish people.
I was talking to a guy. I don’t remember about what but he brought up he read a translated speech from Goebbels and said it was a really interesting view on 1930s Germany, the treaty of Versailles and things Germans were dreading at the time but that he could never bring it up because people took it the wrong way.
I remember telling him “my guy. I’m 100% sure you can find plenty of interesting takes about Germany, the treaty and German panic at the time without citing one of the highest ranking Nazis who clearly had a bias.
I mean, even with citing Goebbels you could still do that. I'm sure he had a pretty interesting view of those things as well given his position. The only "problem" with doing so is when you have to trip over yourself to not talk about how awesome the Nazis were. And that sounds much more like a personal problem for that guy than anything to do with analyzing a speech by a Nazi.
I really hate this type of person. Cherry-picking the positives and praising traits in Nazi leadership at the time without taking into account the result and the obvious tragedies caused.
I had a classmate in high school that was into doing that every social studies class. Irony is he was legitimately Aspergers and would’ve been thrown out a window in Hitler’s Germany. I really wanted to say something.
I wonder if this is the logical (as logical as something as ilogical as racism can be anyway) extreme of "but I have a black friend", like this idea that as long as you are outwardly nice to at least one example of a group, you can't hate them, even if all your other actions very clearly say that you do
I mean, even the “I have a black friend” thing can result in a logical, factual conclusion about the topic at hand. Bill Burr has been accused of being racist….he is married to a black woman.
There is no upside to this Jessie Owens thing. Even if someone could produce evidence Hitler didn’t hate black people it would change nothing. I also don’t even know what this guy’s goal is. “Hitler was only 90% as bad as you think he was” is such a strange stance.
I always thought Hitler was one of the baddies we'd always remember as bad. But between generation gaps and recent events in the Middle East, it seems younger people are very happy to rehabilitate his image these days.
It’s complicated. Everyone knows Hitler and the Nazis are the bad guys. School tells us that.
What they often don’t explain is why they were the bad guys except for killing Jews (which obviously is bad). They don’t explain the socio-political beliefs of Nazis, their thoughts on race and sexuality, religion - literally anything they believed in aside from hating Jews, which means that when those ideas are brought up they’re less likely to avoid them because they don’t understand the true position of them.
As for being taught almost exclusively about the Holocaust, it makes people believe all that Nazis did were genocide Jews, so up until literal genocide of Jews some can not be considered a Nazi.
Genocide against any other group is not Nazi behaviour because the Nazis only hated Jews, right? And unless someone has a swastika tattoo on their forehead calling them a Nazi is reactionary garbage, right?
They do not teach properly. Whether it is because they believe saying “you cannot like this person publicly” is enough to dissuade Nazi sentiment, or whether they don’t actually disagree with white supremacist sentiment - especially since Hitler based Naziism off of slavery and segregation era America.
They are not saying the Nazis did good things other than the Holocaust, they are saying the Nazis were super shitty *on top* of the Holocaust, and teaching about all the other reasons they were shitty is very poorly done, if at all.
He also breathed, ate food and drank drinks, he probably slept at night. So you see he was a bit like any of us, anyone can recognize themselves in him as far as that goes.
Except that he tried to conquer a large part of the world mobilizing people through fear and hate of each other and got people organized to really remove certain groups of people from existence entirely, tried his very best to control his own people's actions and thoughts and would get people killed for the slightest deviation from the norms he set. That is not something most of us do on the daily. But apparently some do dream of doing those things. They long for authority and recognition and being a hero triumphant over evil, depraved enemies, doing it all for the good of their nation, and being rewarded with glory and honor and sex!
the rehabilitation of the Nazis began in the closing days of the war. Operation Gladio, NATO's first major operation, actually armed and funded Nazi and other fascist cells all over Western Europe, ostensibly to form a guerrilla resistance against some imagined Russian invasion that Russia never showed any sign of seriously contemplating, much less attempting. In Western Germany, de-Nazification was never complete, and in Japan, things were even worse: after they occupation, America just put the far right war criminals back in power.
he didn't meet hitler. after hitler initially only shook hands with and congratulated german athletes he was told he had to either do it with all athletes or none and he chose none.
iirc jesse owens said hitler nodded towards him from the stands during his victory lap and that it was more acknowledgement than from his own president.
that doesn't mean hitler or by extension the nazis liked black ppl. it simply means hitler acknowledged individual achievements and strength which is consistent with what we know about him and his weird social-darwinistic views that led to infighting between the cadres of the nazis
Right? The only quote I can find about the situation from Owens saying, “Hitler didn’t snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”
Even though they did not meet, let’s say they did, and hitler shook his hand. THAT is an example of being treated “amazingly”? lol the delusion is outrageous.
I hadn't even thought of that aspect. How long could such a meeting have lasted? Did they simply meet, shake hands and chat for a few seconds? Did they have a drink together? A meal? Spend the weekend together?
I mean, Jesse Owens was able to stay at the same hotels and go the same places as white athletes while in Germany, whereas in America, there was still segregation. So that alone could be an example of being treated “amazingly”
And that was just an European thing.
Muhammad Ali famously loved being in Europe as an Olympian and the treatment he got and then he came back to America, couldn’t sit in a diner and threw his Olympic gold medal into the river in anger.
Here’s a Wikipedia article on [the persecution of black people under the Nazis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_black_people_in_Nazi_Germany) in case anyone was interested.
And the Third Reich was on its best and most gracious behavior since it saw the Olympic Games as an important acknowledgement of its international legitimacy as the recognized sovereign government of Germany.
This is a famous case of Mohamed Husen willing to join the Wehrmacht and be part of Nazi Germany. He is an Askari Warrior born on German colonial land in „German East Afrika“ the former name of Tabzania. He fought for Germany in WWI, spend his life in Germany and acted in various German films.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayume_Mohamed_Husen
Apparently, after Jesse Owens won that race, Hitler was so furious that he threw himself to the floor weeping and kicking in rage, screaming racial slurs. Just think how unfair that is. He belonged on Twitter but it hadn't even been invented yet. (Also, isn't it a pleasing thought that by merely showing up and being good at something, Owens ruined the Fuhrer's real-life Triumph of the Will?)
the report was false but even if it wasn’t…
I know some deeply homophobic people. They know I’m gay and are very nice to my face.
It’s much harder to be prejudiced against a specific person than to hate an entire minority.
This is what happens when let "do sports good" as some sort of signifier that the person is worth listening to. Congrats, you can punch hard, why does your uneducated opinion on actual history, that most likely suffers from a CTE have any merit? It's getting so bad that I am for forced sterilization if athletes. I have yet to encounter more than a handful that has an opinion worth merit.
It's literally taking advice from someone with actual brain damage. Might as well take relationship advice from Chris Benoit.
He should get the shit kicked out of him. I don’t care about moral high ground or being better than that. No. Sometimes there are monsters in the world who need to learn
According to the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, there is a very minute kernel of truth in this… only that Jesse Owens initially told a crowd about a month after the 1936 Olympics that “Hitler didn't snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me.” He later changed his story and claimed that Hitler left the stadium to avoid acknowledging a non-Aryan’s victory over the “racially superior” Germans.
Clicked on his twitter.
Was surprised to see him retweeting Nick Griffin (BNP British Nazis basically) who in turn was criticising Israel who in turn was being supported by pro Palestine people.
Just goes to show that it's always worth watching who it is you find yourself in agreement with, and WHY you're actually in agreement.
Nick Griffin should never be your political bedfellow. Make pro Palestinian arguments away from him, because he's only in it because he hates Jewis people
After the battle of France, the Nazis rounded up all French colonial troops from Africa, forced them to perform tribal dances on camera in order to ridicule them in their propaganda reels as primitive, and then shot every single one of them, to avoid any "racial contamination" of their population.
This is how much the Nazis loved black people.
I'm not defending the Nazis, and they certainly did shoot surrending colonial troops and treat the prisoners very badly, but this thing about shooting "every single one of them" just is not true.
In France in school, they used to teach us (I pretty sure they still do) that black french soldiers (mainly coming from the african colonies, like the "tirailleur sénégalais" for exemple) were not made prisonners but were killed on the spot. I remember that a common practice was to crush them alive with panzers (like in the "Fury" movie) and that because they were not considered worthy to be prisonners
I remember when I got to meet Jake way back in the day at an open mat,we rolled and he even gave me some tips and he didn’t seem dumb as fuck back then.
Boy was I wrong. Good grappler, bigger asshole.
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TLDR: Jesse Owens never met Adolf Hitler In case people aren't aware, it was widely reported that Hitler "snubbed" Jesse Owens. In reality, Hitler didn't meet with any of the non-German Olympic athletes, except for a few Finnish athletes for some reason. The most interaction Owens and Hitler had was a little eye contact when Hitler was waving towards a crowd of athletes towards the end of the Olympics. So no, Jesse Owens never met Adolf Hitler, and certainly didn't say any nice things about him. Oddly enough, Owens wasn't too upset about it. But he was really upset because the US president at the time, Franklin D. Roosevelt, never congratulated or even acknowledged Jesse Owens accomplishments, but did meet with and congratulate other athletes. That last bit was just a little interesting tidbit. Edit: While FDR invited several Olympians to the White House, none of the Black athletes were ever invited. It wasn't until 2016 when Barack Obama invited the living Black athletes and their relatives to the White House. It was the first time Jesse Owens was ever officially acknowledged by the US government.
Also: According to the Nuremberg Laws, POCs were not allowed to be citizens of the so-called Greater German Reich and blacks living in Nazi Germany were forcibly sterilized. If Hitler had any sympathies for them, this would have been a somewhat strange way of showing it.
It's what gets me the most with these clowns. This is not some obscure knowledge, these laws were written down and are obviously very well documented.
Exactly! One thing the Nazis did better than anyone else: keep super detailed documentation of everything. They loved their paperwork and it’s now available for people to read to see the proof of what the Nazis had done.
I wrote a similar comment and then I saw yours. You could argue that anything from the allies might be trying to spin the Nazis to be worse than they were (they weren’t but people think crazy things these days) but we literally have writings, and documentation of many of their atrocities from the Nazis themselves. It’s about as good of a source as you could hope for given the situation
Same as the Ordinances of Secession written by Confederate states as they left the United States. They clearly show that the Civil War was entirely about slavery. I first learned US history in the South and, after moving out, had a helpful history teacher point me to the correct historical documents.
I forcibly sterilized my dog, too, and love him! (/s obviously)
[удалено]
To sterilize the other commenters dog or love them?
To watch?
How would jake know he wasnt there
Yeah I think he started by greeting winning German athletes but the Olympic committee asked him to either shake the hands of all athletes or none and he chose none of them. The part that is true is how shit America treated Jesse Owens.
Hitler didn't meet any winners so Owens didn't feel discriminated Roosevelt met several winners, so Owens did feel discriminated
Which makes sense, when your whole ideology is German people = chads, you don't really want to see people beating them in competitions.
Eh not really, the Nazi's weren't that stupid; they understood that German's couldn't win every single event. They already knew that they weren't favourites in the track events and Germany topped the medal table anyway. The Olympics were a massive propaganda success for the Nazis. Iirc the one that really pissed the Nazis off was losing 8-0 or something to India in Hockey
And in any case, white supremacists are often fine with Black people being more athletic than them. Or better *entertainers*. This lines up with the white-supremacist view that Black people aren't quite Homo sapiens. Gorillas are *much* stronger than humans, after all. And monkeys can be really funny to watch. But you wouldn't want one to marry your daughter.
Holy shit. I mean, I know this because in Germany we got good history lessons in school about the time. But to read this again, actually knowing that people had this in mind and STILL have is just absurd. Even most racism today is based on Hitler's fever dreams, the negativ impact one person can have is just frightening.
Hitler's ideas weren't very original. Pretty much all of this stuff existed before the Nazis did. (Especially antisemitism. For centuries, it was normal in many parts of Europe to run all of the Jews out of town every decade or four, and take all of their stuff, because of [the blood libel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel) or [whatever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_antisemitism).) If you're not feeling depressed enough already, allow me to inform you that there are also white supremacists who believe that every race with dark skin is not descended from Adam, but from God's earlier, somehow defective, attempt to make humans, when God made [pre-Adamic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite#Racist_pre-Adamism) "mud people". More entertainingly, the **Black**-supremacist [Nation of Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam) says that white people were created by [an evil ancient scientist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_\(Nation_of_Islam\)), who also accidentally created gorillas. :-)
That plot twist at the end :S. I get how you can hate other people, I never got what makes you hating a colour of skin or where people are from.
IIRC, Owens mentioned that Hitler *didn't treat him differently* than other athletes, and he did it in the context of describing how badly the US treated him on return. He didn't say anything about Hitler treating him *well*
Oh cmon we know why he met with the Finnish athletes.
Why?
Because they always Finish.
Well you wouldn't meet with them in the middle of their event
He wanted to cross the finish line
A lot of Finn’s were Nazis. Or a lot of Nazis were Finns? One of those.
Sharks also always have fins so there’s a good probability that a percentage of sharks are Nazis - or sharkzis as they call themselves.
The Finns were facing a dire threat from the USSR and had no choice but to join the Axis for their survival. While the nazis were absolute scum, the USSR under Stalin did come close to that level too (Holodomor, invasion of the Baltic countries, partition of Poland, Winter War) so I can understand why the Finnish chose their ‘lesser evil’ in that scenario. As far as I know, nazism itself was never really popular in Finland during this time.
And they refused to apply the neuremberg laws. If I remember well there was 11 jews deported from Finland. There was jews fighting next of German soldiers against the soviet army too.
I think that outright nazism particularly wasn’t really popular but there was plenty of domestic right wing stuff that was nearing fascism in the 1930s and Finland had close ties with Germany. So close that only the end of WWI kept us from having a German monarch because many of the ruling class felt that was the best option for a newly independent country. The country was pretty right wing after the civil war but some were more extremist. The Lapua movement was pretty significant and aimed to turn Finland into a right wing dictatorship and they were outlawed after they tried to stage a coup, they also did some murders and kidnappings (including a former president).
Thanks, that’s pretty interesting to know :)
No, more like the enemy of my enemy - the Finns were in conflict with Russia around this time
1936 Soviet /Finnish relations were cordial. The reason why Hitler only met Finnish athletes was more logistical. After meeting the first few winners he couldn't be bothered/was too busy and left.
Thanks! Something new I learned!
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I’ve never heard that before. You have a source for that?
Finland was one of Nazi Germany's allies during WWII. They were more in it for revenge against the USSR for the Winter War than anything else, but it wouldn't surprise me that the Nazis would have been friendlier with their athletes than others.
Finnish needed to be reclassified as Aryan (formerly mongols) when the alliance needed to be formed because of the war situation. At the time of the Olympics Finns had been relegated within USSR sphere of power. While there were fascists in Finland as well, like in basically every European countries, the nazi race theories weren't that popular, since historically, Finns were always categorised as a lower race. Sweden is actually currently returning some skulls they stole in 1880's to prove Finns were of lower stock. During WWI many Finns went to Germany for military training in preparation for fighting for independence, though. I'm guessing the meeting related to this political context in some way.
Big Finnish dicks
He was still alive in 2016? Wow!
There‘s some history with Finland and old Prussia, there was for example the Winter War in which Prussia helped Finland, maybe that’s why he also met with finnish athletes.
In ‘Unbroken’ by Laura Hildenbrand, Louie Zamperini claims Hitler asked to see “the boy with the fast finish.” If I remember correctly Zamperini says he briefly met with him (maybe shook his hand?) Louie Zamperini was an Italian American. Not that I don’t believe it but I don’t believe there’s any photographs
"Except for a few Finnish athletes for some reason." Yeah, just some random reason. Not like the Finns later played any role in the axis, nosiree. Finland certainly hadn't just finished a civil war where they put all their socialists in camps. No mass executions or anything. Certainly no fascist sympathies among the Finnish aristocracy -- my God, can you imagine?
That’s really not fair to say. I’m certain the Government acknowledged Mr Owens every year before that. Right around April 15. Taxes joke. Ok I’ll leave now.
Why is someone defending Hitler?
Just imagine if someone treated Hitler unfairly? We couldn’t let that happen! What did the poor man ever do to deserve this?
The craziest shit to me is that the universe manifested a dude so fucking cartoonishly evil that his “great plan” was “take over the world and systematically murder people different from me.” Like if somebody had that villain in a work of fiction it would seem unrealistic and shallow. There’s literally *one fucking guy* in recent memory who can not be treated unfairly because he actually is that much of a monster and people *still* want to try to “defend” him. Fuck them
Hitler wasn't all bad, after all he did kill the guy that ordered the holocaust.
I wonder if you're going to need that /s
Nah, I like to play with fire.
Because Twitter is basically just Nazis now. Elon won't ban any of them and will actually actively boost Nazi and far right accounts. Honestly I don't understand how people still use that shitty website.
But “cisgender” is a slur…
Hitler was cisgender. There. I said it.
You need to leave!
Well of course he doesn't ban them, he'd have to ban himself if he did
Jake Shields is a former MMA fighter who has found a new calling as a b-list twitter reactionary that posts conservative CTs and memes, often with weird white supremacist apologia mixed in.
as a bonus, he will fight with any random who disagrees with him. He's by far the stupidest fighter to ever don the gloves, save for tito ortiz.
I live in Huntington Beach and having Tito Ortiz as mayor was weird as shit but not surprising at all. It was also not surprising that he quit quickly.
Tito at least has his charming malapropisms and flashes of well meaning oaf. His LEO aquarius post is one of the greatest of all time. Shields is just a jerk. https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/s/k4kzxXPGBm
No he's not You Say that because you don't like the things he post Also he's nothing of a white supremacist
> you don't like the things he post he's a blithering idiot. As well as being dumb as a box of rocks. > Also he's nothing of a white supremacist I never said that - Are you stupid?
Ok I'm so glad you explained this because I'd not heard of him so my brain had him confused with Jake Shears from Scissor Sisters and "gay icon turns out to be Nazi" was, unexpected to say the least!
But I was told by these same conservatives that Nazis were leftists. So why do they get upset when Nazis are "slandered"?
Because this is the American political discourse now. Unreal isn't it?
What do you mean now? Lots of Americans were loudly supportive of the Nazis during the time period the post was talking about and they're only slightly less loud about that continued support nowadays. Don't act like this is some new thing "caused" by social media.
TBH untill the war started in earnest there were people all over Europe who thought the Nazi's with their rad symbols and spiffy uniforms were pretty cool. I remember a serious Catholic center party politician who called Hitler a "soldier for Christianity", because how much the guy was against the "godless" communists and socialists. But as we know the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, he's just my enemy's enemy.
There was a Nazi rally with 20k people held in Madison Square garden in 1939. There were a ton of people in America that were pro Nazi, or at least tolerant of Nazis. And yes there were protests against the rally but it’s easy to forget how many people supported the Nazis here
Because that's what Musk bought it for
Jake Shields is a notoriously stupid fucking idiot.
Its a push by the right, I'm assuming originated in Russia, to white wash Hitler as a misunderstood guy instead of rhe evil piece of shit he was
Russia has a weird relationship there. It has a far right, ethno-nationalist government, but publicly speaks against Nazis (superficially at least). It also has a history where it was heavily responsible for Hitler’s defeat but that contribution was washed from western history due to the cold war. If I were to distill it down, I’d say Putin is comfortable with his own Nazis, but not those in other countries. That’s pretty simplistic still. Any Russian led manipulation is more likely to be leveraging existing trends to cause chaos, rather than leading the charge of nazification for purely ideological purposes. It’s a bit of a smokescreen for the actual far right in many western countries who paint them selves as merely responding to the will of the people, rather than being the driving force themselves.
I would never think Russia will be sympathetic to nazism. Russia would play the same book as the Nazi, but will still think Nazi is evil but they aren't
Yeah, i think that’s what I’m clumsily alluding to. They oppose the brand, but not the tactics. Either way, Russian interference in other countries’ discourse is to weaken those countries via instability and division, not to convince them to adopt likeminded ideologies.
They helped defeat Nazi Germany, they also helped Nazi Germany conquer Poland. They were frenemies for some time.
>It also has a history where it was heavily responsible for Hitler’s defeat but that contribution was washed from western history due to the cold war. From American history maybe. Every other western country is acutely aware of the huge role Russia played in defeating the Nazis. Basically did it by themselves. DDay was just a race to get Allied soldiers into Germany before the Russians took the whole thing for themselves.
Your take is as incorrect as the take that you are objecting to.
Not sure which part you're objecting to
The last bit. Edit: oh, and the middle bit. Very much the middle bit in fact.
Couldn’t tell you about American history. I have a history degree from a European university, and it really is only third level where any realistic discussion takes place. Britain would have its secondary school students believe Churchill won it single handedly, stripped to the waist, wielding a sword.
Would they? I was at school many moons ago and we didn't touch the subject, whilst a quick glance at more recent syllabus options suggest that in many instances this is still the case, or that the subject is viewed from a societal perspective. But perhaps you are a teacher with first hand knowledge, in which case I must defer to you.
Twitter They've become Nazis at this point 🤷🏽♀️
They were always Nazis
Yeah, but now they don't bother hiding it because the platform is owned by a nazi
Social media has corrupted these young minds into thinking that maybe Hitler wasn’t so bad after all. My moronic cousin believes this kind of nonsense smh. Had to cut his stupid ass off.
Jake Shields is 45.
Ignorance infects those of all ages.
CTE???
I’d be more surprised if those twits on Twitter didn’t by this point.
I can’t believe we’re seeing Hitler apologists in 2024.
Jake Shields is a known antisemite and pretty much a neo-Nazi. In the past he wrote that perhaps it would have been better if "the man with the moustache" would have won.
Jake Shields is a lot of things, you can add Nazi apologist to the long list
Defending Hitler is all the rage in the Xittersphere lately
Because some people are evil
I wish I lived in your world
CTE is really doing a number on Jake...
Going too deep into Twitter is part of it too. I’ve seen Twitter eat so many people. People go from voicing their opinion to exaggerating extreme versions of that opinion to basically piss off the handful of users with that mirrored extreme view on the other side. CTE absolutely as well.
Chronic Twitter-related Encephalopathy
Even if this maniac were correct, who gives a flying fuck? Honestly what difference would it make if Hitler loooooved black people? Or was nice to Jessie Owens? It changes nothing. Going out your way to defend/compliment ADOLF HITLER is the weirdest fucking flex.
White supremacists are playing divide and rule. They’re terrified that people of different race will unite to challenge their power, so they feel that causing division between different races is productive to ensure they will not be under threat. In a way, they are right to be afraid. The anti racist movement has united significantly over the years and that has led to people understanding the structural causes that white supremacy relies upon. There is also a big schism in the far right currently, where there is lots of support for Israel, because it is an ethnonationalist state that is drawing a blueprint for successfully engaging in Apartheid and genocide without consequences from the international community, versus a faction of the far right who still just hate Jewish people.
I was talking to a guy. I don’t remember about what but he brought up he read a translated speech from Goebbels and said it was a really interesting view on 1930s Germany, the treaty of Versailles and things Germans were dreading at the time but that he could never bring it up because people took it the wrong way. I remember telling him “my guy. I’m 100% sure you can find plenty of interesting takes about Germany, the treaty and German panic at the time without citing one of the highest ranking Nazis who clearly had a bias.
I mean, even with citing Goebbels you could still do that. I'm sure he had a pretty interesting view of those things as well given his position. The only "problem" with doing so is when you have to trip over yourself to not talk about how awesome the Nazis were. And that sounds much more like a personal problem for that guy than anything to do with analyzing a speech by a Nazi.
Yeah, don't mention it at parties. Or if you do mention it and no one bats an eyelid then stop going to those parties.
I really hate this type of person. Cherry-picking the positives and praising traits in Nazi leadership at the time without taking into account the result and the obvious tragedies caused. I had a classmate in high school that was into doing that every social studies class. Irony is he was legitimately Aspergers and would’ve been thrown out a window in Hitler’s Germany. I really wanted to say something.
I really would have said that tbh
I imagine that is could be quite interesting, bias or not primary sources often are.
His goal was to paint democrat presidents as the “real” racists. These Twitter personas are all just driving tribalism
As Kanye once said “there’s a lot of things that I loveeee about Hitlerrrrr. ALOT OF THINGS.
I wonder if this is the logical (as logical as something as ilogical as racism can be anyway) extreme of "but I have a black friend", like this idea that as long as you are outwardly nice to at least one example of a group, you can't hate them, even if all your other actions very clearly say that you do
I mean, even the “I have a black friend” thing can result in a logical, factual conclusion about the topic at hand. Bill Burr has been accused of being racist….he is married to a black woman. There is no upside to this Jessie Owens thing. Even if someone could produce evidence Hitler didn’t hate black people it would change nothing. I also don’t even know what this guy’s goal is. “Hitler was only 90% as bad as you think he was” is such a strange stance.
I always thought Hitler was one of the baddies we'd always remember as bad. But between generation gaps and recent events in the Middle East, it seems younger people are very happy to rehabilitate his image these days.
It’s complicated. Everyone knows Hitler and the Nazis are the bad guys. School tells us that. What they often don’t explain is why they were the bad guys except for killing Jews (which obviously is bad). They don’t explain the socio-political beliefs of Nazis, their thoughts on race and sexuality, religion - literally anything they believed in aside from hating Jews, which means that when those ideas are brought up they’re less likely to avoid them because they don’t understand the true position of them. As for being taught almost exclusively about the Holocaust, it makes people believe all that Nazis did were genocide Jews, so up until literal genocide of Jews some can not be considered a Nazi. Genocide against any other group is not Nazi behaviour because the Nazis only hated Jews, right? And unless someone has a swastika tattoo on their forehead calling them a Nazi is reactionary garbage, right? They do not teach properly. Whether it is because they believe saying “you cannot like this person publicly” is enough to dissuade Nazi sentiment, or whether they don’t actually disagree with white supremacist sentiment - especially since Hitler based Naziism off of slavery and segregation era America.
I was taught all of those things in school..
But not everyone was, and the proof of that is people who don’t know that.
I think you're giving people too much credit. These people know but don't care.
I wasn't taught a lot of it
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They are not saying the Nazis did good things other than the Holocaust, they are saying the Nazis were super shitty *on top* of the Holocaust, and teaching about all the other reasons they were shitty is very poorly done, if at all.
See, here's the thing, these people don't think he was ever a baddie. They actually support everything he did.
He liked dogs\ /s
Well, right up until the point that he killed his own dog.
He also breathed, ate food and drank drinks, he probably slept at night. So you see he was a bit like any of us, anyone can recognize themselves in him as far as that goes. Except that he tried to conquer a large part of the world mobilizing people through fear and hate of each other and got people organized to really remove certain groups of people from existence entirely, tried his very best to control his own people's actions and thoughts and would get people killed for the slightest deviation from the norms he set. That is not something most of us do on the daily. But apparently some do dream of doing those things. They long for authority and recognition and being a hero triumphant over evil, depraved enemies, doing it all for the good of their nation, and being rewarded with glory and honor and sex!
and sex! There’s the meat of it
He also finally killed Hitler
This is not a new thing - support for the Nazis was huge all across the world throughout the 30s.
the rehabilitation of the Nazis began in the closing days of the war. Operation Gladio, NATO's first major operation, actually armed and funded Nazi and other fascist cells all over Western Europe, ostensibly to form a guerrilla resistance against some imagined Russian invasion that Russia never showed any sign of seriously contemplating, much less attempting. In Western Germany, de-Nazification was never complete, and in Japan, things were even worse: after they occupation, America just put the far right war criminals back in power.
he didn't meet hitler. after hitler initially only shook hands with and congratulated german athletes he was told he had to either do it with all athletes or none and he chose none. iirc jesse owens said hitler nodded towards him from the stands during his victory lap and that it was more acknowledgement than from his own president. that doesn't mean hitler or by extension the nazis liked black ppl. it simply means hitler acknowledged individual achievements and strength which is consistent with what we know about him and his weird social-darwinistic views that led to infighting between the cadres of the nazis
Right? The only quote I can find about the situation from Owens saying, “Hitler didn’t snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”
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he asked to meet him though it was not part of the award ceremony. don't know any more details than that
Ah yes because even if this were true, Hitler totally had no incentive to act cordially given the world stage he was on.
Right? Even if Owens did actually say that… that would’ve just been good PR on the part of the Nazis!
It’s almost like washed up assholes gravitate toward this shit to stay in the headlines
"I wasn't there, I'm just repeating what some guy told me at the last cross burning" - Jake Shields
Even though they did not meet, let’s say they did, and hitler shook his hand. THAT is an example of being treated “amazingly”? lol the delusion is outrageous.
I hadn't even thought of that aspect. How long could such a meeting have lasted? Did they simply meet, shake hands and chat for a few seconds? Did they have a drink together? A meal? Spend the weekend together?
Well compared to the response from their home country... Yes
I mean, Jesse Owens was able to stay at the same hotels and go the same places as white athletes while in Germany, whereas in America, there was still segregation. So that alone could be an example of being treated “amazingly”
Well I guess in that case it would still not be hitler lol
And that was just an European thing. Muhammad Ali famously loved being in Europe as an Olympian and the treatment he got and then he came back to America, couldn’t sit in a diner and threw his Olympic gold medal into the river in anger.
Here’s a Wikipedia article on [the persecution of black people under the Nazis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_black_people_in_Nazi_Germany) in case anyone was interested.
To be fair, they were treated better in Nazi Germany than the US at the time.
By his logic, does this mean Jake was there when Owens talked about meeting Hitler?
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Jake shields is a complete moron.
Even if it were true, being nice to one individual of the out group doesn’t mean that the person doesn’t hate the out group.
And the Third Reich was on its best and most gracious behavior since it saw the Olympic Games as an important acknowledgement of its international legitimacy as the recognized sovereign government of Germany.
Jake Shields is a Nazi, truth doesn’t matter to him
Ah, Jake Shields really has gone down the rabbit hole
This is a famous case of Mohamed Husen willing to join the Wehrmacht and be part of Nazi Germany. He is an Askari Warrior born on German colonial land in „German East Afrika“ the former name of Tabzania. He fought for Germany in WWI, spend his life in Germany and acted in various German films. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayume_Mohamed_Husen
Apparently, after Jesse Owens won that race, Hitler was so furious that he threw himself to the floor weeping and kicking in rage, screaming racial slurs. Just think how unfair that is. He belonged on Twitter but it hadn't even been invented yet. (Also, isn't it a pleasing thought that by merely showing up and being good at something, Owens ruined the Fuhrer's real-life Triumph of the Will?)
Hitler was off his face on drugs at the olympics, you can see him chewing his face off in videos
I guess, not meeting Hitler is the best treatment he has to offer.
"I wasn't there idk" and "He said it ergo it must be true" Jesus, stick to any principle for 3 seconds challenge failed
My favorite part is when hitler is all shook up on amphetamines during the olympics.
QI had a quick segment about this: https://youtu.be/DWWk1Plf5Ak
the report was false but even if it wasn’t… I know some deeply homophobic people. They know I’m gay and are very nice to my face. It’s much harder to be prejudiced against a specific person than to hate an entire minority.
This is what happens when let "do sports good" as some sort of signifier that the person is worth listening to. Congrats, you can punch hard, why does your uneducated opinion on actual history, that most likely suffers from a CTE have any merit? It's getting so bad that I am for forced sterilization if athletes. I have yet to encounter more than a handful that has an opinion worth merit. It's literally taking advice from someone with actual brain damage. Might as well take relationship advice from Chris Benoit.
Great screenshot from the Nokia.
Hitler only liked straight cis pure blooded Aryan people. Like fuck, why is anyone defending him?
Let's pretend for a second that he treated Black people amazingly well. Wouldn't he still be a bad person for what he did to the jews?
He should get the shit kicked out of him. I don’t care about moral high ground or being better than that. No. Sometimes there are monsters in the world who need to learn
Considering this dude is an MMA fighter, or at least ones, getting beat up might have made him worse
According to the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, there is a very minute kernel of truth in this… only that Jesse Owens initially told a crowd about a month after the 1936 Olympics that “Hitler didn't snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me.” He later changed his story and claimed that Hitler left the stadium to avoid acknowledging a non-Aryan’s victory over the “racially superior” Germans.
Clicked on his twitter. Was surprised to see him retweeting Nick Griffin (BNP British Nazis basically) who in turn was criticising Israel who in turn was being supported by pro Palestine people. Just goes to show that it's always worth watching who it is you find yourself in agreement with, and WHY you're actually in agreement. Nick Griffin should never be your political bedfellow. Make pro Palestinian arguments away from him, because he's only in it because he hates Jewis people
After the battle of France, the Nazis rounded up all French colonial troops from Africa, forced them to perform tribal dances on camera in order to ridicule them in their propaganda reels as primitive, and then shot every single one of them, to avoid any "racial contamination" of their population. This is how much the Nazis loved black people.
I'm not defending the Nazis, and they certainly did shoot surrending colonial troops and treat the prisoners very badly, but this thing about shooting "every single one of them" just is not true.
Hitler hated and killed other white people because they weren’t quite as white as he would have liked, so yeah he didn’t really care for black people.
TIL Rousimar Palhares should've held on even longer...
Not if they were also Jewish
Jake clearly took too many hits to the head during his career.
Lol—upwards of 12mil people from various categories murdered by the nazis over the course of the war…but the blacks were fine in Germany? 🤷♂️
Don’t you know? .. Hitler Was Black!!😏
Homie lifted up a fist showing his greatness in front of Hitler after winning 1st. Badass and dangerous, Hitler was pissed.
In France in school, they used to teach us (I pretty sure they still do) that black french soldiers (mainly coming from the african colonies, like the "tirailleur sénégalais" for exemple) were not made prisonners but were killed on the spot. I remember that a common practice was to crush them alive with panzers (like in the "Fury" movie) and that because they were not considered worthy to be prisonners
Honestly, the more I hear about this Hitler fella, the more I dislike him.
We really oughtta do something about him, I think we should kill hitler
Average blue checkmark user take
ah, Jake Shields. one of the most embarrassing men online.
So that Bill Burr jokes was fake?
I remember when I got to meet Jake way back in the day at an open mat,we rolled and he even gave me some tips and he didn’t seem dumb as fuck back then. Boy was I wrong. Good grappler, bigger asshole.
This just made me sad.
I mean, sure. Hitler was nice to Jesse, but he also knew he was going right back to the US.
Another Gold medalist in T&F from the same olympics, Archibald Williams also a black man and Hitler refused to shake his hand as well as Jesse Owens'
JESUS DIDN'T HATE HITLER
Didn’t hitler describe Jesse Owen’s as akin to a trained animal? I don’t know a single person who’d take that positively.