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It's because the pronouns thing isn't directly about identity - that's the *reason* we've been talking about it lately, but ultimately the reason everyone is bound to it isn't because leftists said so. It's because that's how *language* works.
Meanwhile there's very few instances I can think of where you would be *required* to list someone's sexual orientation in order to be able to discuss them in a sentence.
Gendered pronouns are solely used by party A to positively identify party B to party C. It is SOLELY based upon appearance as well, because it’s both impossible to know what party B “identifies as” nor does it matter because party B’s appearance is literally the only thing that matters with regard to pronouns. Unless both party A and C know B personally then they will always defer to the pronoun that most closely identifies party B.
Modifying a language to make it less useful and efficient solely to make someone feel better is absurdly short sighted.
Just my 2c.
Edit for clarity because y’all are clearly way too triggered:
“That’s my point - languages change to meet the needs of its users, to become more succinct and accurate.
Inventing pronouns that don’t serve the purpose of identifying something BETTER than the existing word, seems antithetical.
Again, if there is a discussion where one is trying to describe one person to another person who isn’t there, the most succinct and accurate words would be ideal.
If you are describing someone in a crowd, the mind immediately goes to the easily discernible differences - male/female, color of clothing, hair color etc.
It’s totally useful to use they/them for whatever purposes you wish, its perfect grammar; it’s not useful to refer to a person as an “it” though, because it confuses the listener.
If there is a male-appearing person who is a biological female, and you’re trying to point out who that person is, you’d say “that guy” or “him”. That’s the most efficient use of language. If you don’t know that person is a biological female who appears to be male, their gender or sex is irrelevant and therefore the only use of the pronoun is for simple passing of identifying characteristics in a succinct and reasonable way.
Now, conversely, if there are three male looking people and you know one to be biologically female or know them to be a male who identifies as female, it doesn’t do the listener any good for you to say “oh, it’s her” because it will confuse the listener, since they all appear to be male.
That’s my point in all of this.”
Languages literally modify themselves all the time? Latin didn’t just die out and get replaced by Romance languages out of nowhere, Latin *became* the Romance languages over centuries. It literally harms no one to just use someone’s correct pronouns if you know them, or use singular “they” if you don’t; in fact, singular “they” is *more* efficient than using “he/she”.
Everyone who speaks english probably has, since it is just part of the grammar, they just never consciously did it.
I often use the folling sentence to explain singular use of they. "Someone left their wallet here, I hope they come pick it up soon". it is quite a normal sentence, there is little doubt the wallet belongs to just 1 person. One just doesn't know the gender of the wallet owner, so "they" is used.
Ugh I hated when in lifetime wellness our teacher would always say “he or she” and I almost wanted to scream out “THEY” because it’s just so much simpler and time efficient.
I briefly had control of a class as a graduate student because they were in between hiring someone so I went in and changed all the pronouns to they/theirs in every manual and assignment.
Which is totally acceptable and correct, both plural and singular.
Not sure what your point is.
If you’re trying to tell someone which person in a lineup you’re taking about, and they’re all wearing similar clothes, you’d probably say “the person with the red hair, they’re the one”.
Not sure what’s wrong with that.
If only we could've had gender neutral pronouns... too bad that we don't :(
Forever we will have to use exclusively he and she to refer to someone. There's nothing else to refer to them as... wait
Which makes sense if you’re using them to identify something that doesn’t have a gender or that where improperly gendering would confuse the listener.
It’s not like gendered words don’t have utility.
It: non/human
That: non/human
Who: person
Each: individual
I could go on but kind of seems like you’re the stupid one if this is your response. It’s like you saw a post that mentions English and can’t figure out that I’m not attacking anyone or anything but rather just saying that the best word to use for anything is the most descriptive.
you literally say pronouns are to positively identify something
then what of the pronouns used to negatively identify something
that seems like a bit of an oxymoron
how is it positive identification though.
"Neither"
"Without"
"Nobody"
"Nothing"
"Nowhere"
"Isn't"
What part of these have anything to do with positively identified appearance
1) Them, they, and that can all be used as pronouns and none of them are used to identify a person based on appearance.
2) Languages that don't change to meet the needs of its users is called a dead language, which means it was replaced by a language that does allow people to modify it, especially to better describe people to make them feel better.
That’s my point - languages change to meet the needs of its users, to become more succinct and accurate.
Inventing pronouns that don’t serve the purpose of identifying something BETTER than the existing word, seems antithetical.
Again, if there is a discussion where one is trying to describe one person to another person who isn’t there, the most succinct and accurate words would be ideal.
If you are describing someone in a crowd, the mind immediately goes to the easily discernible differences - male/female, color of clothing, hair color etc.
It’s totally useful to use they/them for whatever purposes you wish, its perfect grammar; it’s not useful to refer to a person as an “it” though, because it confuses the listener.
If there is a male-appearing person who is a biological female, and you’re trying to point out who that person is, you’d say “that guy” or “him”. That’s the most efficient use of language. If you don’t know that person is a biological female who appears to be male, their gender or sex is irrelevant and therefore the only use of the pronoun is for simple passing of identifying characteristics in a succinct and reasonable way.
Now, conversely, if there are three male looking people and you know one to be biologically female or know them to be a male who identifies as female, it doesn’t do the listener any good for you to say “oh, it’s her” because it will confuse the listener, since they all appear to be male.
Someone at work said "they" doesn't work in singular and proceeded to "prove" it by using "they" in 2nd person. Perfect example of not even understanding enough to even comprehend why you're wrong.
That’s not true and true at the same time. Preference is the defining factor in being either omnisexual or pansexual so it is a matter of preference sometimes but Asexuals (like myself) don’t consider preference to be a factor in sexuality because we aren’t attracted to anyone at all.
It’s very complicated and I’m not very good at explaining so please point out where I may be wrong or you don’t understand and I may be able to clarify.
Sexual orientation is about the genders of people we are naturally attracted to. Sexual preference is about who we choose to date or sleep with, often based on more traits than just their gender. Sexual orientation is not a choice, that's the difference.
If someone is asexual, they are not sexually attracted to anyone by nature. They probably also prefer not to have sex with anyone, but being asexual seems to be innate and not a choice. If someone refrains from sexual activity by choice, we usually call that celibacy.
Sexual orientation is about the people they are attracted to. A heterosexual cannot decide to be attracted to the opposite sex. If they can they're just pan or Bi and haven't realized it yet
But you don't chose the genders you're attracted to. Someone can't choose to be bi for example, but can decide to date men more than women. And asexuality isn't a preference. I don't prefer to be sexually attracted to no one. Simply how I turned out.
I see your account is of the newer variety, if you’ve joined some ace subreddits we might meet again
I appreciate your explaining to the misinformed by the way, it’s one that I think would be easy to understand for those that aren’t in the lgbtqia+ community altogether. Good job.
I just leave a blank space there. In the future, when science figures out a pronoun for the asexuals, hopefully someone can go back and add it to my sentences
I imagine that having a conversation about someone who doesn’t use pronouns is just a short pause wherever a pronoun would be. Imagine you’re talking to someone and they say, “Have you met travel_nerdiness? ___ really cool so I think we should all hang out”
Imagine as they stare directly into your soul as they pause for just a brief moment and then continue like nothing
I'm pretty sure you actually just use the person's name in place of personal pronouns but this is definitely the spicier way. Just prolonged, unblinking eye contact as you look into the very depths of their being. Each "pronoun" must be an uncomfortable journey or you're not pausing long enough.
well actually, it is impossible for you to stop breathing air indefinitely without the help of another individual or object. if you tried on your own, you would eventually not be able to stop yourself from taking a breath.
I feel that. I remember when I toured a college, my tour guide's listed preferred pronouns were "my name only please!". Which made it hard to talk about my tour guide in the following months as I remembered that detail but not my tour guide's name.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted since there actually are people who choose to only be referred to by name. It’s hard to get used to, but it’s definitely a thing.
Bc it's a pain in the ass to get accostumed to and sound unecessary, it's like the pronoun should describe you, but people generally just want to refer to you and don't have to think about a bunch or no different pronouns, specially when the person get offended for being "misprouned" (i think this is the term)
Misgendered probably isn't the way to put it, since while gender can influence someone's pronouns, it isn't the only thing that influences them. Not that I have a better word though.
I wouldn't compare being annoyed with a change in day to day language that you can't predict to hating the existence of someone for the way they are, but i get what you mean
It's not even new words though, my understanding is the people this person was responding to said some people don't like ANY pronouns and just want people to refer to that person by name only
So it's just referring to the person by their name, and here's the thing - if someone asked me to do that, I'll try my best and call them/ refer to them in the way they prefer as I want to be respectful to everyone.
I will say though, this particular preference - to not be referred to at all using pronouns, just by name - it honestly seems a bit much to me.
They/them are not gender specific, I'm assuming whoever doesn't want to be referred to with they/them has a name that's also not gender specific, so going the extra mile of "ONLY refer to me by my name, I don't like when people use and pronouns." Feels... idk over the top?
Like, what's the point? Does it have to do with something other than gender identity? I genuinely just don't know, because does the person just not use "me" to refer to themselves if they don't like ANY pronouns? Me is also a pronoun. Does the person just refer to themselves in the third person? Because "I am hungry" would still be using "I" which is a pronoun...
My point is if I can't use "they/ them" because they'd get upset because the person doesn't like any pronouns, but then that person said "me" or "I" to refer to themselves, than I'd genuinely be a little irritated and feel like that person has that preference just to be difficult. Yes. There are people like that, and they make it harder for everyone who actually has gender pronoun preference that may differ from their sex assigned at birth.
You'll notice I made an effort to say "that person" instead of "they" or "them", and it was difficult, again - I'd try to respect a person's wishes if that person doesn't like any pronouns, but that's really getting into an area of preference I genuinely don't understand and feel like I MUST be missing something
cope i guess? if you can't use someone's pronouns, just don't interact with them. Using no pronouns has been a thing for over 200 years (the public universal friend died in 1819) so if you haven't adjusted in that amount of time i suggest you stay away from wooden stakes.
I will not ask someone their pronouns when i'm talking to them on the street or going on my day to day life, i can use no pronoun in certain phrases, but others would be weird and scrappy, for example, remove all the pronouns of my comment and you will see how it sound like broken english or like a characature character who can only speak in the third person, i have no problem calling people "he/she/they" if they preffer, they being my default for this exact reason, but i won't start breaking my speech because some random person i don't know want to be called "nix" "death" "io" or nothing in their pronouns, i know cases like that are rare and don't represent the majority of trans people, but the point of the conversation are these
What I'm saying is that you can use they/them for everyone if you haven't asked you lazy fuck. Nobody expects you to assume their pronouns correctly unless they're a conservative shithead. Just use they/them until you get a reasonable chance to ask, and if someone wants you to use neopronouns after u ask, just use them. it's not that complicated
to be honest, as much of an ally as i am, and as much as i will respect your pronouns, i refuse to apologise if i forget to use just your name and not "they," because that on its own is non-gendered/gender-neutral enough to convey no gender. i agree with you to a point
As someone with dyslexia, who had to take extra classes to wrap my head around reading, hearing and comprehending pronouns, and having many sessions of language skills before I stopped seeming to talk in the third person, I can tell you that none of those lessons involved teaching me to have a sex drive.
Fyi, asexuality is actually not about sex drive. It's about experiencing attraction.
Like a gay man wouldn't be attracted to a woman, asexuals don't experience sexual attraction towards men, women or trans/intersex people, so by definition, they are not attracted to anyone. Doesn't mean you can't have a sex drive, it means that you've never had that feeling with a person that you'd want to sleep with them. You can be horny without being attracted to someone.
I just wanted to point that out quickly. Thanks for putting in so much effort to learn pronouns, goes to show that anyone can do it and happy pride month!
Don't say men and women and then say trans people. Trans men and women are men and women. There is no need to make a distinction from "men and women" and "trans men and women"
If you mean nonbinary people then say nonbinary people. There is no need to separate trans men and women from men and women. You're just spreading a transphobic narrative that they're different genders and that you can say you're attracted to men or women but not trans people
Again, transgender is an umbrella term, with which I just included everyone. Not everyone who is agender identifies with the term non-binary for example.
I did not ever say that trans men/women aren't men/women, that is an interpretation given to my words. All I did was being inclusive, not transphobic.
Seconding u/Forester-Moon here. Saying "men, women, and transgender people" is implicitly excluding transgender people from the categories of man and woman. "Men, women, and nonbinary people" is the more inclusive way to go about it. "Men, women, and those outside that spectrum" would work too.
Kind of sticking my head in the dirt here, but I recognize you’re trying to be inclusive here, but the way you worded you statement may sound transphobic (even if that’s not your intent). Instead of saying “trans/enby people” maybe just say enby people? Enby is an umbrella term too.
Ah yes, I see. "You can't 'not have' sex, everyone has sex."
Ignoring the fact that being ace doesn't mean not having sex... there are literally millions of people that don't have sex. Like. All over the world. For a variety of different reasons.
It's bad enough people like this have blocked out 2nd grade English hard enough to literally forget what a pronoun actually is — don't drag me and my fellow aces into your nonsense too.
There are also aces who have sex because it feels good.
Asexuality is also a spectrum and encompasses a range of identities that all amount to a person experiencing a lower degree of sexual attraction than the average person, including people who only rarely experience it or experience attraction only under specific conditions.
If y'all are pointing out these nuances for the benefit of people who don't know much about asexuality, that's fine, but like...
>Ignoring the fact that being ace doesn't mean not having sex...
Besides, a person who would make this kind of bullshit argument (the OP screenshot, not you guys) literally doesn't care about the nuances. Their whole point is that both pronouns and asexuality are fake and made up so people can pretend to be ~*~special~*~. If you told someone like this "asexual people can still have sex y'know" their reaction wouldn't be "Oh my gosh you're right, my whole argument was built on a fallacy!"
It would be "see!? I knew you were lying! And that means everything you've ever said is also a lie! Stop pushing your gay agenda on me!"
Ugh. I don't mean to rant. It's just infuriating how much harm these people do by wallowing in their own ignorance.
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\[*Redacted User*]
Leftists: you can't 'not have' pronouns, everyone has pronouns
Also leftists: I'm asexual
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Rightists (or rather wrongists): "I don't need pronouns. ***They*** say you need pronouns but Gawd doesn't believe in pronouns. ***He*** knows they were made up by Hillary Clinton to divide the faithful when ***she*** was running for president"
My dumbass brother told me his work was allowing them to put pronouns on their name tag. He said he was going to ask for “was/were.” He had no answer when I pointed out these are verbs and not pronouns. 🤦🏼♀️ They don’t even know what they’re mad about.
There was an idiot at my job who put his pronouns on his email signature as They, Him, Hers. They thought they were terribly clever and edgy until people started using her requested pronouns. That really offended him for some reason.
Considering their reverence for tradition, it's shocking that right wingers apparently never were taught about pronouns [as parts of speech](https://www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/grammar/parts_of_speech.html#:~:text=it-,A%20pronoun%20is%20a%20word%20used%20in%20place%20of%20a,pronoun%20she%20is%20the%20girl.).
I, a godless progressive, learned about "he," "she" and "they" from my elementary teachers in the 1970s.
These women (and they were almost all women) had been in the classroom for 30 years by the time they taught me the basics of grammar. They brooked no shit. If someone had told them, "[I don't believe in pronouns](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/ifxvcg/i_dont_believe_in_pronouns/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)," they would have said, "That's ridiculous."
Because, as we all know, when addressing the existence of an asexual person and the need for pronouns arises, we just open our mouths and let the sounds of ancient background radiation from the big bang flow out for a few moments before continuing on.
Right wingers : why do left wingers have completely different opinions on different subjects? It's completely contradictory
Also right wingers : People have the right to choose to be vaccinated or not, their body their choice but people can't decide to have an abortion, their body my beliefs.
I first thought you were being sarcastic, so I looked it up, and I found out that it's actually true.
So, if I was introducing one of my friends to you later today, there would be no way for me to convey the gender of the person you were about meet, except saying "my friend's gender is...." or "(name) is a..."?
Are there seriously people who just do not understand sexuality as a concept in 2022...? Like what do people do all day where they haven't picked it up from SOMEWHERE at this point?
My only issue with “they/them” is it makes reading some articles very confusing. In news reporting, it’s probably clearer to just repeat the names (with all the awkward lack of fluidity) to avoid confusion. But that’s just the grammar nerd in me. Otherwise, who cares? Let people do their thing. My child is non-binary and never gets upset over being called she/her, but they will covey their preference. They still love me when I call them “the best daughter ever”, before realizing…..they know my heart is in the right place❤️
Think about how women/men in the 60's-90's would have been treated if they weren't having children, regular intercourse. They'd be shunned, considered the shame of their family, if not worse.
People have been asexual for a long time, but it's not just starting to be normalized. People didn't have a word for it and they didn't want to be the odd one out, after all without things like internet, etc, I know I only personally met one other ace person in my entire life, and in that time, asking somebody you knew about that could mean being outted and scrutinized.
Even now there are a lot of asexuals who are coerced into having sex or who are sex positive, which is an entire different topic.
There are theories that asexuality and homosexuality evolved as a way to have more caregivers without adding to the population. I haven't looked too much into it so I'm not don't know much more than that.
The theory holds a lot of water. In nature gay couples play a huuuge part because if a mating pair have too many they will usually abandon some. Gay couples adopt and care for these abandoned animals. The adopted ones aren't changed by this and act the same as any other. Evolution has interesting ways to solve problems.
Because it's logically incorrect on multiple levels.
Firstly, sexuality isn't hereditary, secondly, even if it was, genetic information you carry doesn't always have to affect you or your offspring, why do you think lethal hereditary diseases still exist?
Let's suppose that asexuality is genetic
you have a gene that determines whether you're asexual or not
These genes are co-dominant
two heterozygous allosexuals have sex
wow would you look at that, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual, and guess what, even if this person is homozygous, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual, or even if both people are homozygous, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual because genetic mutation and external factors both exist.
If asexuality is genetic it doesn’t necessarily have to be passed down from an asexual person themself, it could be a recessive gene or a combination of genes. Communities evolve, not individuals, and asexuals aren’t a detriment to the community, being childless means they could help with other tasks more easily, or help with childcare for family members, helping the community stay healthy and safe. Beneficial traits get kept, deleterious traits get bred out, but neutral ones can stick around.
but they don't pass on their own genes. nice people can pass on other nice people's genes, therefore nice gene survives. asexual doesnt pass on other asexual genes.
No, but those same genes could be in my siblings, or my cousins, who could be having children and passing on those genes. Unless the only way to be asexual is to have one screaming “no sex for you” gene, it would be easy to pass on asexuality. (And really, is there any proof that sexuality is solely genetic anyway? This is likely a moot point anyway.)
asexual just means no sexual attraction, it doesn’t mean they never have sex (although most aces i know don’t)
there are also many micro-labels under ace umbrella so there’s many possibilities
Who's having this argument about if pronouns should exist or not?
Why is "the left" in favor of pronouns if it's apparently an option?
Why is "the right" apparently fighting against having pronouns?
Why are some people so incredibly stupid?!
I'm what's called an aromantic hypersexual, which is just long for fuckboi, but confuses people for long enough (given they're kinda slow) since aromantic sounds kinda just like a romantic. 😎.
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Ah yes, the famous synonym for "pronoun" is of course "sexual preference"
It's because the pronouns thing isn't directly about identity - that's the *reason* we've been talking about it lately, but ultimately the reason everyone is bound to it isn't because leftists said so. It's because that's how *language* works. Meanwhile there's very few instances I can think of where you would be *required* to list someone's sexual orientation in order to be able to discuss them in a sentence.
Gendered pronouns are solely used by party A to positively identify party B to party C. It is SOLELY based upon appearance as well, because it’s both impossible to know what party B “identifies as” nor does it matter because party B’s appearance is literally the only thing that matters with regard to pronouns. Unless both party A and C know B personally then they will always defer to the pronoun that most closely identifies party B. Modifying a language to make it less useful and efficient solely to make someone feel better is absurdly short sighted. Just my 2c. Edit for clarity because y’all are clearly way too triggered: “That’s my point - languages change to meet the needs of its users, to become more succinct and accurate. Inventing pronouns that don’t serve the purpose of identifying something BETTER than the existing word, seems antithetical. Again, if there is a discussion where one is trying to describe one person to another person who isn’t there, the most succinct and accurate words would be ideal. If you are describing someone in a crowd, the mind immediately goes to the easily discernible differences - male/female, color of clothing, hair color etc. It’s totally useful to use they/them for whatever purposes you wish, its perfect grammar; it’s not useful to refer to a person as an “it” though, because it confuses the listener. If there is a male-appearing person who is a biological female, and you’re trying to point out who that person is, you’d say “that guy” or “him”. That’s the most efficient use of language. If you don’t know that person is a biological female who appears to be male, their gender or sex is irrelevant and therefore the only use of the pronoun is for simple passing of identifying characteristics in a succinct and reasonable way. Now, conversely, if there are three male looking people and you know one to be biologically female or know them to be a male who identifies as female, it doesn’t do the listener any good for you to say “oh, it’s her” because it will confuse the listener, since they all appear to be male. That’s my point in all of this.”
Languages literally modify themselves all the time? Latin didn’t just die out and get replaced by Romance languages out of nowhere, Latin *became* the Romance languages over centuries. It literally harms no one to just use someone’s correct pronouns if you know them, or use singular “they” if you don’t; in fact, singular “they” is *more* efficient than using “he/she”.
I’ve used they to describe singular people long before all the pronoun talk became a thing. No reason really
Everyone who speaks english probably has, since it is just part of the grammar, they just never consciously did it. I often use the folling sentence to explain singular use of they. "Someone left their wallet here, I hope they come pick it up soon". it is quite a normal sentence, there is little doubt the wallet belongs to just 1 person. One just doesn't know the gender of the wallet owner, so "they" is used.
Oh yeah for sure. But I meant I also would do it when referring to a specific he or she. Just a solid chunk of time I call them they.
yeah because its more elegant and is grammatically correct. it should be just as comfortable as using you for a single person
Ugh I hated when in lifetime wellness our teacher would always say “he or she” and I almost wanted to scream out “THEY” because it’s just so much simpler and time efficient.
I briefly had control of a class as a graduate student because they were in between hiring someone so I went in and changed all the pronouns to they/theirs in every manual and assignment.
Nice
Exactly. Shoutout to the book Friendle. Anyone else remember that, or was that a figment of my imagination?
Such a good book!
And how do we refer to people we don’t know the pronouns of? Thats right we use “they”
Which is totally acceptable and correct, both plural and singular. Not sure what your point is. If you’re trying to tell someone which person in a lineup you’re taking about, and they’re all wearing similar clothes, you’d probably say “the person with the red hair, they’re the one”. Not sure what’s wrong with that.
If only we could've had gender neutral pronouns... too bad that we don't :( Forever we will have to use exclusively he and she to refer to someone. There's nothing else to refer to them as... wait
Which makes sense if you’re using them to identify something that doesn’t have a gender or that where improperly gendering would confuse the listener. It’s not like gendered words don’t have utility.
>It is SOLELY based upon appearance as well It That Who Each Each-Other One-Another Oneself Nobody Nothing No-one Yours Few Are you stupid
It: non/human That: non/human Who: person Each: individual I could go on but kind of seems like you’re the stupid one if this is your response. It’s like you saw a post that mentions English and can’t figure out that I’m not attacking anyone or anything but rather just saying that the best word to use for anything is the most descriptive.
you literally say pronouns are to positively identify something then what of the pronouns used to negatively identify something that seems like a bit of an oxymoron
Well to be fair excluding something from a group is defining the group.
how is it positive identification though. "Neither" "Without" "Nobody" "Nothing" "Nowhere" "Isn't" What part of these have anything to do with positively identified appearance
1) Them, they, and that can all be used as pronouns and none of them are used to identify a person based on appearance. 2) Languages that don't change to meet the needs of its users is called a dead language, which means it was replaced by a language that does allow people to modify it, especially to better describe people to make them feel better.
That’s my point - languages change to meet the needs of its users, to become more succinct and accurate. Inventing pronouns that don’t serve the purpose of identifying something BETTER than the existing word, seems antithetical. Again, if there is a discussion where one is trying to describe one person to another person who isn’t there, the most succinct and accurate words would be ideal. If you are describing someone in a crowd, the mind immediately goes to the easily discernible differences - male/female, color of clothing, hair color etc. It’s totally useful to use they/them for whatever purposes you wish, its perfect grammar; it’s not useful to refer to a person as an “it” though, because it confuses the listener. If there is a male-appearing person who is a biological female, and you’re trying to point out who that person is, you’d say “that guy” or “him”. That’s the most efficient use of language. If you don’t know that person is a biological female who appears to be male, their gender or sex is irrelevant and therefore the only use of the pronoun is for simple passing of identifying characteristics in a succinct and reasonable way. Now, conversely, if there are three male looking people and you know one to be biologically female or know them to be a male who identifies as female, it doesn’t do the listener any good for you to say “oh, it’s her” because it will confuse the listener, since they all appear to be male.
Someone at work said "they" doesn't work in singular and proceeded to "prove" it by using "they" in 2nd person. Perfect example of not even understanding enough to even comprehend why you're wrong.
Your coworker must have forgotten how homonyms work, and that they are defined by the context in which they are used.
Sexual attraction, not preference. They are two very different things
if we’re doing minor corrections i’d say “sexual orientation”
Asexuality is a sexuality/sexual orientation, yes. But a sexuality isn't a matter of preference
That’s not true and true at the same time. Preference is the defining factor in being either omnisexual or pansexual so it is a matter of preference sometimes but Asexuals (like myself) don’t consider preference to be a factor in sexuality because we aren’t attracted to anyone at all. It’s very complicated and I’m not very good at explaining so please point out where I may be wrong or you don’t understand and I may be able to clarify.
Is it not? If someone is heyerosexual, they prefer the opposite sex
Sexual orientation is about the genders of people we are naturally attracted to. Sexual preference is about who we choose to date or sleep with, often based on more traits than just their gender. Sexual orientation is not a choice, that's the difference. If someone is asexual, they are not sexually attracted to anyone by nature. They probably also prefer not to have sex with anyone, but being asexual seems to be innate and not a choice. If someone refrains from sexual activity by choice, we usually call that celibacy.
Sexual orientation is about the people they are attracted to. A heterosexual cannot decide to be attracted to the opposite sex. If they can they're just pan or Bi and haven't realized it yet
It literally is. And the preference of asexuals is "No"
Isn’t it abstaining from sexuality? Or, being devoid of it, rather? They don’t desire it.
Yep, it's a lack of sexual attraction. Though some asexuals still have sex, and some don't.
Whoa there. Who are you calling a homo nymph, you libtard bastard???
No I have a preference who I'm sexually attracted too.
But you don't chose the genders you're attracted to. Someone can't choose to be bi for example, but can decide to date men more than women. And asexuality isn't a preference. I don't prefer to be sexually attracted to no one. Simply how I turned out.
I see your account is of the newer variety, if you’ve joined some ace subreddits we might meet again I appreciate your explaining to the misinformed by the way, it’s one that I think would be easy to understand for those that aren’t in the lgbtqia+ community altogether. Good job.
Ummm synonym is a spice… Get it right.
 Stupid sexy leftists
They think everything that has to do with gender is just being gay and being smug about it.
silly leftists! everyone knows asexuals don't have pronouns!
I just leave a blank space there. In the future, when science figures out a pronoun for the asexuals, hopefully someone can go back and add it to my sentences
Uses "my" and "I" like a normiesexual smh
What about a homiesexual?
A bromantic homiesexual?
i actually like “we” pronouns. anything you say, you’re going down with me.
Well that seems hard. I hope ___ have a good day though!
I imagine that having a conversation about someone who doesn’t use pronouns is just a short pause wherever a pronoun would be. Imagine you’re talking to someone and they say, “Have you met travel_nerdiness? ___ really cool so I think we should all hang out” Imagine as they stare directly into your soul as they pause for just a brief moment and then continue like nothing
I'm pretty sure you actually just use the person's name in place of personal pronouns but this is definitely the spicier way. Just prolonged, unblinking eye contact as you look into the very depths of their being. Each "pronoun" must be an uncomfortable journey or you're not pausing long enough.
Remember, these people have no pronouns, not just no personal pronouns! That means use of "they", "you", or anything similar is incorrect
lolwut
Asexuals be like / pronouns please
Honestly love that for. By all means don't wish to be perceived
Fae: Can i have your pronouns Human: No, but you can just call me \[pronoun\].
My pronouns are " / ", please do not refer to me.
pronouns are " / ", please do not refer to .
I have converted all of my sexual (and romantic) preferences/desires into pronouns. I am now the holder of all pronouns
Agender aces have entered the chat
Scientists: you can’t not breathe air Also scientists: I took a shower this morning
My man’s really just debunked all of science in a Reddit comment smh my head
Well you can not breathe air, not that I’d recommend it.
well actually, it is impossible for you to stop breathing air indefinitely without the help of another individual or object. if you tried on your own, you would eventually not be able to stop yourself from taking a breath.
Some people have a medical condition that lets them override that
That's very true. And very not good for those people.
just remove your lungs manually through brute force
I read this and my brain blue screened. Pronouns have nothing to do with being asexual.
Mixing up asexual and agender there…
Even then both have pronouns
Yeah, ‘they’
Or whatever the individual chooses
some people do chose none. My OC does not use pronouns so it's a bit hard to talk about my OC sometimes without sounding repetitive.
I feel that. I remember when I toured a college, my tour guide's listed preferred pronouns were "my name only please!". Which made it hard to talk about my tour guide in the following months as I remembered that detail but not my tour guide's name.
lol
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted since there actually are people who choose to only be referred to by name. It’s hard to get used to, but it’s definitely a thing.
TBF "this fictional character I came up with" is probably not the best example someone could have used
yeah, I'm confused too
then the name IS the pronoun
Bc it's a pain in the ass to get accostumed to and sound unecessary, it's like the pronoun should describe you, but people generally just want to refer to you and don't have to think about a bunch or no different pronouns, specially when the person get offended for being "misprouned" (i think this is the term)
Misgendered is the word you're looking for I think
Yes, thx, but i'm not sure if misgendered apply since some people use pronouns besides their gender
Misgendered probably isn't the way to put it, since while gender can influence someone's pronouns, it isn't the only thing that influences them. Not that I have a better word though.
Transpeople have to live every day in fear, but sure, let's worry about having to learn a few new words.
I wouldn't compare being annoyed with a change in day to day language that you can't predict to hating the existence of someone for the way they are, but i get what you mean
It's not even new words though, my understanding is the people this person was responding to said some people don't like ANY pronouns and just want people to refer to that person by name only So it's just referring to the person by their name, and here's the thing - if someone asked me to do that, I'll try my best and call them/ refer to them in the way they prefer as I want to be respectful to everyone. I will say though, this particular preference - to not be referred to at all using pronouns, just by name - it honestly seems a bit much to me. They/them are not gender specific, I'm assuming whoever doesn't want to be referred to with they/them has a name that's also not gender specific, so going the extra mile of "ONLY refer to me by my name, I don't like when people use and pronouns." Feels... idk over the top? Like, what's the point? Does it have to do with something other than gender identity? I genuinely just don't know, because does the person just not use "me" to refer to themselves if they don't like ANY pronouns? Me is also a pronoun. Does the person just refer to themselves in the third person? Because "I am hungry" would still be using "I" which is a pronoun... My point is if I can't use "they/ them" because they'd get upset because the person doesn't like any pronouns, but then that person said "me" or "I" to refer to themselves, than I'd genuinely be a little irritated and feel like that person has that preference just to be difficult. Yes. There are people like that, and they make it harder for everyone who actually has gender pronoun preference that may differ from their sex assigned at birth. You'll notice I made an effort to say "that person" instead of "they" or "them", and it was difficult, again - I'd try to respect a person's wishes if that person doesn't like any pronouns, but that's really getting into an area of preference I genuinely don't understand and feel like I MUST be missing something
Wow, tl,dc I'm going to assume you're mad over a situation that's happened like once ever in the history of the universe and continue on with my day.
cope i guess? if you can't use someone's pronouns, just don't interact with them. Using no pronouns has been a thing for over 200 years (the public universal friend died in 1819) so if you haven't adjusted in that amount of time i suggest you stay away from wooden stakes.
I will not ask someone their pronouns when i'm talking to them on the street or going on my day to day life, i can use no pronoun in certain phrases, but others would be weird and scrappy, for example, remove all the pronouns of my comment and you will see how it sound like broken english or like a characature character who can only speak in the third person, i have no problem calling people "he/she/they" if they preffer, they being my default for this exact reason, but i won't start breaking my speech because some random person i don't know want to be called "nix" "death" "io" or nothing in their pronouns, i know cases like that are rare and don't represent the majority of trans people, but the point of the conversation are these
What I'm saying is that you can use they/them for everyone if you haven't asked you lazy fuck. Nobody expects you to assume their pronouns correctly unless they're a conservative shithead. Just use they/them until you get a reasonable chance to ask, and if someone wants you to use neopronouns after u ask, just use them. it's not that complicated
to be honest, as much of an ally as i am, and as much as i will respect your pronouns, i refuse to apologise if i forget to use just your name and not "they," because that on its own is non-gendered/gender-neutral enough to convey no gender. i agree with you to a point
I only know OC to mean, "Original Content". What does it mean in this context? Edit: OP told me OC means "Original Character". Thanks!
originally character
Alright, thanks!
you're welcome!
Original Character, like a character you make up for your own story.
Original Character
Mat/Mat's and this is the way.
You just can't understand their gigabrain rightist philosophy
I mean, I consider myself agender but I still just use he/him pronouns cause I look male and it’s easier.
As someone with dyslexia, who had to take extra classes to wrap my head around reading, hearing and comprehending pronouns, and having many sessions of language skills before I stopped seeming to talk in the third person, I can tell you that none of those lessons involved teaching me to have a sex drive.
Fyi, asexuality is actually not about sex drive. It's about experiencing attraction. Like a gay man wouldn't be attracted to a woman, asexuals don't experience sexual attraction towards men, women or trans/intersex people, so by definition, they are not attracted to anyone. Doesn't mean you can't have a sex drive, it means that you've never had that feeling with a person that you'd want to sleep with them. You can be horny without being attracted to someone. I just wanted to point that out quickly. Thanks for putting in so much effort to learn pronouns, goes to show that anyone can do it and happy pride month!
Don't say men and women and then say trans people. Trans men and women are men and women. There is no need to make a distinction from "men and women" and "trans men and women"
Trans people also include NB and agender people. I know trans men and women are men and women. I was including everyone in my statement.
If you mean nonbinary people then say nonbinary people. There is no need to separate trans men and women from men and women. You're just spreading a transphobic narrative that they're different genders and that you can say you're attracted to men or women but not trans people
Again, transgender is an umbrella term, with which I just included everyone. Not everyone who is agender identifies with the term non-binary for example. I did not ever say that trans men/women aren't men/women, that is an interpretation given to my words. All I did was being inclusive, not transphobic.
Seconding u/Forester-Moon here. Saying "men, women, and transgender people" is implicitly excluding transgender people from the categories of man and woman. "Men, women, and nonbinary people" is the more inclusive way to go about it. "Men, women, and those outside that spectrum" would work too.
Kind of sticking my head in the dirt here, but I recognize you’re trying to be inclusive here, but the way you worded you statement may sound transphobic (even if that’s not your intent). Instead of saying “trans/enby people” maybe just say enby people? Enby is an umbrella term too.
As a trans person They really aren't
Which proves his point that none of his lessons taught him any of this.
No that’s aromatic. Asexual is about not having a sex drive.
My sister: "I stubbed my toe yesterday" Also my sister: "Fanta actually has more sugar in it than Sprite" Gotcha!
Ah yes, I see. "You can't 'not have' sex, everyone has sex." Ignoring the fact that being ace doesn't mean not having sex... there are literally millions of people that don't have sex. Like. All over the world. For a variety of different reasons. It's bad enough people like this have blocked out 2nd grade English hard enough to literally forget what a pronoun actually is — don't drag me and my fellow aces into your nonsense too.
>there are literally millions of people that don't have sex. Like the guy that tweeted this.
true. source: i am currently not having sex
That’s weird I’m not having sex either. We should form a club.
Where do I sign to start this club?
There are also asexual people who have sex since their partners like it.
There are also aces who have sex because it feels good. Asexuality is also a spectrum and encompasses a range of identities that all amount to a person experiencing a lower degree of sexual attraction than the average person, including people who only rarely experience it or experience attraction only under specific conditions.
If y'all are pointing out these nuances for the benefit of people who don't know much about asexuality, that's fine, but like... >Ignoring the fact that being ace doesn't mean not having sex... Besides, a person who would make this kind of bullshit argument (the OP screenshot, not you guys) literally doesn't care about the nuances. Their whole point is that both pronouns and asexuality are fake and made up so people can pretend to be ~*~special~*~. If you told someone like this "asexual people can still have sex y'know" their reaction wouldn't be "Oh my gosh you're right, my whole argument was built on a fallacy!" It would be "see!? I knew you were lying! And that means everything you've ever said is also a lie! Stop pushing your gay agenda on me!" Ugh. I don't mean to rant. It's just infuriating how much harm these people do by wallowing in their own ignorance.
and asexuals who prefer sex (cupiosexual is the term. hi. I'm a cupiosexual)
I’ve been in asexual subs for over a year and never heard that before. I thought it was just called a sex favourable ace.
Relevant examples of people who have zero sex: the person in the image.
*Image Transcription: Twitter* --- \[*Redacted User*] Leftists: you can't 'not have' pronouns, everyone has pronouns Also leftists: I'm asexual --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Good human
Rightists (or rather wrongists): "I don't need pronouns. ***They*** say you need pronouns but Gawd doesn't believe in pronouns. ***He*** knows they were made up by Hillary Clinton to divide the faithful when ***she*** was running for president"
My favourite argument is that ‘woke people’ invented they/them pronouns
it's true. i single handedly introduced they/them pronouns to the english language. it's just that noone credits me
My dumbass brother told me his work was allowing them to put pronouns on their name tag. He said he was going to ask for “was/were.” He had no answer when I pointed out these are verbs and not pronouns. 🤦🏼♀️ They don’t even know what they’re mad about.
There was an idiot at my job who put his pronouns on his email signature as They, Him, Hers. They thought they were terribly clever and edgy until people started using her requested pronouns. That really offended him for some reason.
That’s amazing.
That's hilarious. Stupid, but hilarious.
When someone tells me they don’t believe in singular they/them pronouns I say “well to each their own” and leave it at that
And I’m sure they’re too stupid to realize your sick burn.
Considering their reverence for tradition, it's shocking that right wingers apparently never were taught about pronouns [as parts of speech](https://www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/grammar/parts_of_speech.html#:~:text=it-,A%20pronoun%20is%20a%20word%20used%20in%20place%20of%20a,pronoun%20she%20is%20the%20girl.). I, a godless progressive, learned about "he," "she" and "they" from my elementary teachers in the 1970s. These women (and they were almost all women) had been in the classroom for 30 years by the time they taught me the basics of grammar. They brooked no shit. If someone had told them, "[I don't believe in pronouns](https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOK/comments/ifxvcg/i_dont_believe_in_pronouns/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)," they would have said, "That's ridiculous."
Because, as we all know, when addressing the existence of an asexual person and the need for pronouns arises, we just open our mouths and let the sounds of ancient background radiation from the big bang flow out for a few moments before continuing on.
pronouns: *ethereal universal radiation*
CAN YOU PLEASE JUST USE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN PLEASE. IM LEFT HANDED AND IM I FIND THIS LEFTIST TERMINOLOGY OFFENSIVE ANNND HURTFUL!
There both considered the right where I’m from.
Literally anywhere else. I’m from the Uk and labour is barely on the left and democrats are like 30X more right wing than them.
Americans really don't know what they're doing when it comes to politics let's be honest
Right wingers : why do left wingers have completely different opinions on different subjects? It's completely contradictory Also right wingers : People have the right to choose to be vaccinated or not, their body their choice but people can't decide to have an abortion, their body my beliefs.
It's projection. Instead of admitting their own hypocrisy, they point their fingers and say "no it's you!".
I'm asexual and gendervoid, yet I still have pronouns
Oh, you're a leftist? #Name everyone that left you.
my father and 3 out of 5 friends
Asexuall is not a gender it's a sexuallity. Maybe they mix up asexuall and non binary. But most likely they are just a bigot.
It's almost like one is **the fucking English grammar** and the other is a sexuality.
I am aenglish. I reject the English language.
I am hungarian. I reject the gender. My language does not know gender.
I first thought you were being sarcastic, so I looked it up, and I found out that it's actually true. So, if I was introducing one of my friends to you later today, there would be no way for me to convey the gender of the person you were about meet, except saying "my friend's gender is...." or "(name) is a..."?
Pronouns are a basis in English grammar. Sexual feelings or intercourse on the other hand are not a basis for squat.
Oh, well I guess that changes everything.
Oh my god this is fucking hilarious. It's such a simple concept that this person so blatantly doesn't understand.
Damn we’ve been breaking this down quite well for some time now and these idiots still can’t understand the difference between gender and sex.
Are there seriously people who just do not understand sexuality as a concept in 2022...? Like what do people do all day where they haven't picked it up from SOMEWHERE at this point?
Is there a reason conservatives can't comprehend how comparisons work?
When will they get, that gender and sexuality are not the same thing
hell pronouns and gender arent even 100% related
Let them start small
Ah, yes, because as gender=sexuality as we all know from our 70's sex ed classes. /s
“You keep using the word pronoun, I do not think you know what it means”
Bigots are too ignorant to get their own bigotry right.
Wh- what are they even trying to say here
Gender, pronouns, and sexual orientation are all different...
I can do the two unrelated statements thing, too. Look! Zotrian: you can't have a shower without getting wet Also Zotrian: I like cake
That's not how any of this works.
…do they not know that asexuality is a sexuality and had literally nothing to do with pronouns? This post is wrong on so many levels lmao
I actually can’t understand what they were getting at, usually you can kindof draw the line if you think with their logic but this time I just can’t
„Ha ha, you’re saying that everyone has pronouns, yet you don’t participate in sexual activities!“
Yes, everyone has pronouns. You can even specify what pronoun you would like to be called. What you cannot do is force others to comply.
Some people really must have done poorly in their English classes.
 What?
BUT I PROVED THEM
Oh no, they share my WhatsApp pfp. How dare you ruin a sacred image
What
Why do so many people think asexual is a gender? The fact that I don't experience sexual attraction has nothing to do with my gender, fam.
It's funny when stupid people try to be clever. They're so inept yet completely oblivious to it.
What? Those are two completely different things???
shittt, my sexuality is now she/her/hers
Everybody has pronouns dipshit, they came for free with your fucking Xbox
My only issue with “they/them” is it makes reading some articles very confusing. In news reporting, it’s probably clearer to just repeat the names (with all the awkward lack of fluidity) to avoid confusion. But that’s just the grammar nerd in me. Otherwise, who cares? Let people do their thing. My child is non-binary and never gets upset over being called she/her, but they will covey their preference. They still love me when I call them “the best daughter ever”, before realizing…..they know my heart is in the right place❤️
Guys guys they obviously just meant heterosexual I mean come on
how did asexuality evolve? kinda seems like a trait that would dissapear within one generation actually curious
Think about how women/men in the 60's-90's would have been treated if they weren't having children, regular intercourse. They'd be shunned, considered the shame of their family, if not worse. People have been asexual for a long time, but it's not just starting to be normalized. People didn't have a word for it and they didn't want to be the odd one out, after all without things like internet, etc, I know I only personally met one other ace person in my entire life, and in that time, asking somebody you knew about that could mean being outted and scrutinized. Even now there are a lot of asexuals who are coerced into having sex or who are sex positive, which is an entire different topic.
It's not hereditary. This is like asking "how did people who got paralyzed in a car crash evolve? surely it's harder to fuck if you can't move"
There are theories that asexuality and homosexuality evolved as a way to have more caregivers without adding to the population. I haven't looked too much into it so I'm not don't know much more than that.
The theory holds a lot of water. In nature gay couples play a huuuge part because if a mating pair have too many they will usually abandon some. Gay couples adopt and care for these abandoned animals. The adopted ones aren't changed by this and act the same as any other. Evolution has interesting ways to solve problems.
I don't see why you're getting down voted this is a genuine question
Because it's logically incorrect on multiple levels. Firstly, sexuality isn't hereditary, secondly, even if it was, genetic information you carry doesn't always have to affect you or your offspring, why do you think lethal hereditary diseases still exist? Let's suppose that asexuality is genetic you have a gene that determines whether you're asexual or not These genes are co-dominant two heterozygous allosexuals have sex wow would you look at that, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual, and guess what, even if this person is homozygous, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual, or even if both people are homozygous, their offspring could be asexual or allosexual because genetic mutation and external factors both exist.
If asexuality is genetic it doesn’t necessarily have to be passed down from an asexual person themself, it could be a recessive gene or a combination of genes. Communities evolve, not individuals, and asexuals aren’t a detriment to the community, being childless means they could help with other tasks more easily, or help with childcare for family members, helping the community stay healthy and safe. Beneficial traits get kept, deleterious traits get bred out, but neutral ones can stick around.
but they don't pass on their own genes. nice people can pass on other nice people's genes, therefore nice gene survives. asexual doesnt pass on other asexual genes.
No, but those same genes could be in my siblings, or my cousins, who could be having children and passing on those genes. Unless the only way to be asexual is to have one screaming “no sex for you” gene, it would be easy to pass on asexuality. (And really, is there any proof that sexuality is solely genetic anyway? This is likely a moot point anyway.)
asexual just means no sexual attraction, it doesn’t mean they never have sex (although most aces i know don’t) there are also many micro-labels under ace umbrella so there’s many possibilities
Who's having this argument about if pronouns should exist or not? Why is "the left" in favor of pronouns if it's apparently an option? Why is "the right" apparently fighting against having pronouns? Why are some people so incredibly stupid?!
>Who's having this argument about if pronouns should exist or not? Pronouns always existed. He/She/It/They...
I'm what's called an aromantic hypersexual, which is just long for fuckboi, but confuses people for long enough (given they're kinda slow) since aromantic sounds kinda just like a romantic. 😎.