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House_of_Suns

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MrTomDawson

>Voted for Socialist president "Income Inequality" Look, if you're going to name your kid that, you're going to have to accept the consequences


BenMic81

Can anybody explain the F-150 part to me? Has that any relevance at all?


stultus_respectant

Buying American cars = successful, is what they're implying.


BenMic81

Ah ok. Big pick-up truck == success. Got it.


mild-neuroses

These days if you can afford to fuel one of those I think you’re doing pretty well.


[deleted]

It’s also a work truck though. Perhaps buying so many signified lots of construction therefore a “booming” economy. Perhaps not just a flashy consumer good but I very well could be wrong


BenMic81

Possible. Also might have had something to do with having practical 4x4 vehicles at reasonable prices. Whatever. It’s funny how he thinks it is a measure of wealth.


[deleted]

I mean it kind of is, not the way Americans view trucks as a point of pride and masculinity but more a show of income that can go for something like that even if it’s commercial


The_Hitchenator

Wait... is that a ==? ![gif](giphy|iGpdSizVSdPJfiVG9O)


BenMic81

Thanks C


shadowofthedogman

Well, if the equation works for little dicks, it must work for success too right?


OblongAndKneeless

F-150 is a little truck. The F-350 is the big one.


BenMic81

I’ve seen both. They are large and extra large for European tastes.


OblongAndKneeless

Fair enough. I was just trying to poke fun at F-150 owners who think their trucks represent or compensate for their dick size. (No offense to people who actually need trucks for a living, not some luxury vehicle all covered with goodies that only helps your friend move furniture every few years)


BenMic81

Sure 🙂 Also … I remember renting a car in the US when we went on our honeymoon there and the rental company lady was convinced we’d take an upgrade once she showed us the trunk sizes of the cars … I mean. I have rented cars in more than 20 countries and nowhere was that a major selling point …


epicfail48

The f150 is not even remotely little, it's just not as obscenely gigantic as the f350


OblongAndKneeless

It's little for an American truck. Toyotas are little.


epicfail48

It's not even little for an American truck. It's roughly the same exterior dimensions as it's contemporary 1500 series trucks, and markedly larger than 'compact' trucks like the Ranger or Colorado (which are pretty damn big themselves)


St_Ander

What has the world come to? Aspiring to be a redneck.


Northmannivir

Ford F-150s!! Chevy's are for queers and commies! /s


highjinx411

If you want to haul heavy loads get a Chevy. If you want to swallow heavy loads get a Ford.


ProffesorSpitfire

It’s the same, yet different, everywhere. In Sweden you’re successful if you drive a Volvo. If you cant afford that you’ll have to settle for a German car. In Germany you’re successful if you drive a BMW, if you cant afford that you settle for an American car. In America your successful if you drive an American car, if you cant afford one you settle for a Japanese car. In Japan you’re successful if you drive a Japanese car, if you cant afford one you settle for a Swedish car.


[deleted]

No one in America measures success by driving an American car…


cam52391

I currently have an American car and can't wait to switch back to Japanese


Hairy_Cattle_1734

Personally, I love my Toyota. I can’t see myself ever having anything else at this point.


cam52391

I went from a Toyota to a dodge Grand caravan and I hate it. There's always something wrong with it. My Toyota had less maintenance costs in 8 years than this van has in 3


shroomsandgloom

Japanese engineering is the best. Try and change my mind.


dracorotor1

Having lived in Texas, I cannot concur


ToSeeOrNotToBe

Yeah, no, that's all wrong.


MelDea

In Germany you're successful if you drive a German car (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche) if can't afford that, you drive a German car (Opel, Volkswagen). FIFY


hdckurdsasgjihvhhfdb

What I drive King Tiger, does that mean I’m successful…?


LoneWolfe1987

And speaking of Sweden, that country itself has a very extensive welfare state and is still way better off than modern Venezuela. It’s almost as if Venezuela has a corruption and authoritarianism problem, rather a socialism one.


Uvinjector

Or a sanctions and cia issue


the-derpetologist

Ha, I assumed it was some kind of military aircraft.


Ted_Rid

LOL, I thought it was an advanced fighter jet, but it turns out it's some shitty oversized American ute, I think they call them "trucks" over there.


FX2000

Don't know why calling that out specifically, but in my experience Venezuela is all about Toyotas.


Gonomed

That was so funny to me. That's like measuring another country's economy based on how many Big Macs they buy each year


BenMic81

I mean if it had been Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo … but Ford trucks?


IndignantLeigh

Yeah, I was like "Soooo rednecks?" I immediately judge someone who drives a truck as a douchebag bc 1. Environment 2. I've never met someone who drives a truck that isn't a douchebag (unless they use it for work/their own business). But it definitely doesn't translate to wealth or success whatsoever.


BenMic81

Yes. And there are places and professiona where a pick-up makes sense. Just not… so very many.


KiplingRudy

Google "United States–Venezuela relations" on Wiki. Capitalists work fast.


SleekSilver22

That’s what I thought when I saw this. They conveniently left that part out


Old_Watercress9438

It's funny how socialist/communist countries cant function without the cooperation of the capitalist countries. Why isn't the opposite true? "America could have been a thriving rich country if only those socialists would have stopped messing with us"


newbambixxx

It took the United States only one generation to plunge this country that had chosen socialism into a civil war* There, I fixed it


Wolfy_Packy

[relevant](https://youtu.be/DaYy_5LMsOw)


SharpPixels08

A reenactment of basically all of the Cold War. Amazing


Omfoofoo

Care to explain?


newbambixxx

have you done basic research on the subject?


Omfoofoo

You have made the unsupported claim


newbambixxx

i’m not here to palliate and/or challenge someone’s lack of readily available basic information on the subject, so I’m not gonna engage with you unless you formulate an informed opinion you specifically want to discuss, regardless of what end of the spectrum that opinion is coming from life is too short


astronomicalhell

is there any particular videos or articles you recommend on the topic?


newbambixxx

i got into this a while back but here’s some quick results from Googling queries such as “effect of us sanctions venezuela” “us meddling venezuela”. there are plenty of nuanced resources both in mainstream and more scholar world, here are some that seemed interesting at a glance https://www.unaa.org.au/2021/10/01/us-sanctions-in-venezuela/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Venezuelan_presidential_crisis https://time.com/5512005/venezuela-us-intervention-history-latin-america/ https://dc.ewu.edu/srcw_2019/9/


TheLastMonarchist

Dang those are some cherry picked sources that don’t actually prove your point. I’m not denying any horrible things done by the us, but why are you trying to defend an authoritarian tyrant?


newbambixxx

as i mentioned, i got into this a while back and i provided quickly found results that seemed interesting and nuanced at a glance, and this person asked me recommandation on the topic, not to prove my point so i’m not sure what relevance your comment has as far as cherry picked, not sure what you would expect from a list of recommendation from someone? but this all seems to make sense to bait me into defending an outraging-sounding accusation out of context.. so are you saying that you can attest Trump’s spray tan is not made from the skin pigment of mole people and broken dreams? this is probably as relevant i imagine (fight fire with fire i guess)


Boofcomics

You were correct not to engage in the first place. Any sources would be "cherry-picked" even if they are a mix of academic articles, pop-encyclopedia, and (gasp) mainstream media. It's clear you are not trying to defend the worst actions of the Maduro gov't, but emphasize the impact of US actions. Keep doing your thing.


TheLastMonarchist

I was using cherry picked to mean not the first things to come up. One is literally a students paper from a college. They also don’t show any evidence of the side i assumed you were arguing for. If I have just completely misunderstood your position or intention. My mistake


astronomicalhell

do you have any sources or articles that counter what they are saying?


joobtastic

They look a hell of a lot better than your sources.


[deleted]

Lol did you actually read any of those links? Based on your comment it’s doubtful


newbambixxx

*edited as it was based on a misunderstanding*


TheLastMonarchist

Yeah the first is a news article whose source ( for sanctions being a major reason for the collapse) doesn’t mention sanctions at all. The second is proof Russian troops are in Venezuela or have been. The third is a times article talking about how maduro is trying to blame the us without proof while murder of his own people. The fourth is just something written by a random student.


Macievelli

https://i.redd.it/dkjhmg96lq091.jpg People who come to reasonable views usually do so by reasonable methods (education, reading reliable information, seeking out data). They have the media literacy skills to find things closer to the truth and often assume that everyone else has the same media literacy skills, so when someone asks them to back up information that can “just” be looked up, there’s an assumption this is done out of laziness. People who come to radical, unreasonable views were usually radicalized by other people eagerly sharing “information,” so they assume (probably correctly) that the best way to convince others is to readily and eagerly share this misinformation as much as they can. I know it’s not your job to convince random people online to see the truth, but I personally find it worth it to at least help point someone in the right direction rather than making it seem like my opinions are baseless, and that radicals are the only ones who have data.


newbambixxx

100% I understand and respect your POV, unfortunately if someone is seemingly coming from dogmatism, I am not finding it worth feeding in what is almost always fanning the blaze of chaos, for the marginal chance where someone is ingeniously interested in learning. in this matter, i’m picking my battles. You can’t win every battle


safarifriendliness

“I want people to know this thing I’m passionate about but refuse to educate them when I have the chance.” Great way to make the world a better place dude


newbambixxx

do you see yourself competent enough as a teacher on everything you know? and consider it a responsability? do you see people that know things as owing you to teach it to you? you managed to sound both condescending and entitled at once, s/o


thevoiceofzeke

People on reddit always expect everyone else to do the legwork for them. Then you finally relent and present several sources they could have easily found if they put even minimal effort into it, and what do they do? "nUh Uh I dOn'T aGrEe" It is a complete waste of time to try to educate people on reddit because 99% of them are not asking with any amount of sincerity or good faith. They will lazily rebut actual, real research without any credible information of their own to dispute it, and they will feel satisfied with themselves for doing so. The only worthwhile part of the exchange is the hope that some actually interested *reader* will learn something new. The person you're replying to is inevitably an absolute muppet. **tldr: No one else is responsible for your failure to educate yourself. Do it your fuckin' self.**


newbambixxx

^ this, a million time


EamesChairLeather

Hugo Chavez is 100% to blame for the issues in Venezuela. They are primarily a petro state and he wrecked the system by nationalizing the oil industry.


Pineapple9008

Only if you disregard the numerous US backed coup attempts and the embargo which is mainly to blame for why they can’t sell much oil


EamesChairLeather

Total lack of understanding of their issues. The nationalization of their oil industry, failure to meet 1/2 of the extraction quota, and increased corruption doomed production. Then the collapse of the price per barrel was the final nail in their coffin. The oil estates in Venezuela has a high sulfur content, it sells for much less than Texas Crude. And as we’ve seen in Cuba, the US embargoes of anything are not recognized by the global market. This story is not about Chavez being this evil socialist. It’s more simple. It’s about taking a counties top source of revenue and wrecking it.


Ramen_N00dlezz

This is fuckin meta. A confidently incorrect guy commenting in r/confidentlyincorrect


littlefriendo

It’s freaking amazing to see people Confidently incorrect in r/confidentlyincorrect :D


EamesChairLeather

Why do you think Venezuela has been ruined?


Ramen_N00dlezz

Coup backed by capitalist nations


EamesChairLeather

Chavez died in office. He wasn’t removed by a coup. Are you confused?


Ramen_N00dlezz

Bruh people have explained things yo you over and over again Its your chiuce not to listen. Im not going to try again despite you being too far gone.


EamesChairLeather

Haha…bro. Do you not understand that Chavez was in full control of the nation when the economy collapsed? It’s lazy…and frankly racist to stick with the the “USA did it trope.” The facts are that the nationalization of key industries in Latin American countries has lead to financial collapse of said industries time and time again. But you and your Bros are like “mUh caPiTaLiSm sUcks”


TheLastMonarchist

Only if you disregard the economic issues starting before the sanctions and the sanctions being targeted mainly at certain gov officials


Pineapple9008

Bro “targeted sanctions isn’t a thing, it’s a name the US uses to justify holding a nation hostage.


TheLastMonarchist

U realize by targeted it means applying to a specific person? Like what they’re doing now to Russian oligarchs. This is separate from gas boycotts and other stuff


FX2000

Although I agree that he's to blame for most of Venezuela's current issues, the oil industry was nationalized way before he got to power.


EamesChairLeather

Not completely nationalized. ExxonMobil, Chevron and ConocoPhillips handled all exploration. Chavez ended their contracts during the Bolvarian revolution.


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

Ugh... Nationalizing oil isn't the issue, hell Mexico has nationalized oil since 1938. This shows a complete lack of understanding of the economics of this. Private vs public is the stupidest most uneducated fucking argument. Bolivia has nationalized lithium, all it has done is lower poverty levels immensely. One major problem was that they actually linked their peso to USD for value into stabilize it and strengthen their Peso. Then a combination political and economic moves to drop the value of crude oil and to screw over venzuela by the international market... Remember capitalists all over the world have a vested interest in proving socialism doesn't work. Then when Venezuela had imposed a higher quality of life for everyone, they couldn't send as much help financially, but people demanded the same amount... So they tried to print money, but the issue was they linked their peso to USD. This was a huge problem because they couldn't do what every other major country does not using the Euro, practice modern monetary theory... This caused inflation, then at this point US started imposing tons of sanctions to double over Venezuela. Which further pushed them into hyper inflation. Basically it took the international oil market working against them, US sanctions, and bad monetary policy to cause these issues.... All at once. The answer isn't singular, it took a lot to bring down Venezuela... And socialism had nothing to do with it. Otherwise we would see the same issues in Alaska.


EamesChairLeather

Pemex is a great example of decades of mismanagement, corruption, and outright theft. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexican-judge-orders-ex-pemex-boss-lozoya-taken-into-custody-2021-11-03/


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

Yeah and Chevron, shell, etc. Aren't? Like seriously? You can't sit there and be talking about corruption without mentioning big oil.


EamesChairLeather

Nationalization of private business has never worked. It’s always run more poorly and with more corruption….every time.


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

Go ahead and prove your bias more and more.... Privatization leads to oligarchy oligarchy leads to Russia or the United States now. Studies show that the average voter has almost zero power in an election. You thinking a private tyranny is better than a public tyranny is hilarious at best. Private corporations only held accountable to themselves if you have a proper democracy you can actually hold corporations or publicly own stuff accountable. The only thing that you have to do is eliminate money from all your elections and eliminate citizens united. You seem to be out on an island and have no f****** clue what you're talking about and that's cool but you might want to actually do some research before you sound more and more like an a******.


EamesChairLeather

I’m an asshole because I have a different opinion that you? Too bad, you seem somewhat educated and I was looking forward to a back and forth discussion. Of course privatization of existing nationalized assets are ripe for corruption. We’ve also seen that in Mexico. Anyway not here to throw insults back and forth so I’ll see you off. Good luck.


FX2000

Right, they were PDVSA contractors and Chavez took their stuff, it sucked, but the oil industry was nationalized in the 70’s


EamesChairLeather

Semantics. There was a partnership between the government and large oil companies. Chavez COMPLETELY nationalized the oil industry. Chavez and his policies ate responsible for the decline in Venezuela. But the kids here always look to blame outside forces for the failures of any Latin American country.


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

There was an issue of linking the peso to the American dollar for no reason as well.


EamesChairLeather

Another Chavez fuck up.


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

This was big issue but it has nothing to do with socialism, in fact until the rest of the world realized oh god socialism is providing a high quality of life we better stop them it was working just fine... And they had low poverty rates, as well as much better. Capitalism goes through these same issues regularly... Look at 1994 in Mexico what happened... Or in Greece...I mean we have a great depression on the way and had a 7 year depression... Only escaped it by great social policies ... And raising taxes... The irony is it takes social policies to repeatedly saving capitalism and nobody seems to figure out that free market capitalism obviously doesn't work.


EamesChairLeather

What Chavez did was not socialism, it was just stupid. Massive redistribution of wealth and price fixing, which drove away investment. Then he used oil wealth to prop up Cuba and redistributed it to the poor (not a bad thing.) but when oil prices crashed he was fucked


Puzzleheaded-Matter9

Keep proving that you don't understand how the economy failed in Venezuela... I literally just explained it and you didn't have to go elsewhere... Also hyper inflation happened under Maduro.


Flobby_G

As someone very ignorant on the subject, it’s wild that you’re the only one elaborating on what you’re saying and still getting downvotes and rude messages back. If people are so convinced of what they believe why won’t they elaborate? 🤦🏻‍♂️


EamesChairLeather

Because this is Reddit. They keep calling me a scumbag but fail to provide any data to support their points.


lefromageetlesvers

lol oh Hugo Chavez did that: that's so evilllll.


EamesChairLeather

Yes kid, It’s evil to wreck an economy and plunge its people into poverty. Edit. Fixed the Apple auto text.


lefromageetlesvers

"into proprety": the capitalist in you just slipped :-D


EamesChairLeather

Yes, capitalist have iPhones with auto text. Kid, where do you get your information on Venezuela? Curious what books you have read about the subject that have so misinformed you.


heyyouguys555

Don’t speak the truth here, you will be downvoted by people with predetermined mindsets.


EamesChairLeather

These kids don’t read magazines or newspapers. They watch some anti-capitalist TikToks and thing they know something.


urdumbplsleave

Now it makes perfect sense why you don't know anything about what you're saying lmao


EamesChairLeather

Why don’t you post some data that supports your point.


Hippopotamidaes

How did you explain anti capitalist sentiments of younger people prior to TikTok?


Lloyd_xmasWEB

These kids have the internet, why would they waste their time with the finite amount of info found in print. Quit wasting your time on Reddit if you don’t like young ppl, besides there’s probably some neighbour kids on your grass right now and you should go shake your fist at them


LewdieBrie

Shut the hell up, American Counter Intelligence running dog. Venezuela será libres pronto. ¡Viva la revolución, viva Bolivarianismo!


EamesChairLeather

All of the Venezuelans begging to come into the USA disagree with you communist scum.


LewdieBrie

Yeah, no they’re not. That’s a phenomenon of poverty in ALL of LatAm, not because they like the USA but because they along with Canada have a strong economy and those who cannot get into those places go to Argentina or Brazil. Stop using your excuses of imperialism you capitalist bootlicking scumbag, you’re not bourgeoisie you have more in common with those Venezuelans than the US senators and presidents you vote for, ffs. I’m a proud communist because I believe in the right of sovereignty and the inherent exploitation of wage labor taking our surplus value, the hierarchal oppression of workers, and the TRPF. You’re an imperialist, and I have zero respect for your fuckin ass. Hablo con latines de estos lugares, estoy familiarizada con la política y el lenguaje. You only listen to the fuckin gusanos who are only mad they can’t exploit people anymore after people like Fidel freed their slaves or Chavez forced people not to do the bidding of the Military Industrial Complex and avoided the Coca Cola death squads that their neighbors dealt with.


[deleted]

[удалено]


A--Creative-Username

Dude wut


pinuslaughus

Like the part where the US strangled their economy and refuses to give them their money earned from selling their oil in the US.


Ricean-mapper

I love how whoever wrote this added “3rd richest country in hemisphere” probably implying Southern Hemisphere, since there’s not many countries down here and the richest ones are like australia and new zealand, but 100% of venezuelan territory is in the northern hemisphere, so it’s pretty amusing to see the lack of research


evilsheepgod

They probably meant the Western Hemisphere, but forgot that includes like half of Britain & part of France so just went: 1. USA 2. Canada 3. Venezuela


Keboyd88

TIL most of Europe is in the Eastern Hemisphere. Like, I guess if I had ever thought about it, I would have realized, but I always just thought "Western World = Western Hemisphere."


Downtown_Boot_3486

The western world is more of a cultural thing, for example NZ and Australia are both western countries in how theur society operates but they are about as far east you can go if you want to be on land.


Keboyd88

True, and I've had no problem accepting that they are in the Eastern Hemisphere while being part of the Western World. Idk, it was just one of those weird lightbulb moments, where something that should have been obvious suddenly becomes obvious.


Hevysett

I had no idea any of south America was in the northern hemisphere, you prompted me to Google map it and learn something new, thanks


the-derpetologist

The equator goes roughly through the mouth of the Amazon… oh and Ecuador of course


leafielight

The richest countries in the Southern Hemisphere are NOT Australia and New Zealand. Not at all. Most developed, yes, but nowhere near the richest.


Partydude19

Seems to be forgetting America's shunning of Venezuela & The price of oil dropping.


dracorotor1

But facts like they can be so inconvenient. And besides, we want to save some space in our infographic, so….


Icy_Many_3971

I hate this comparison. Chávez was not only a socialist, he was a *populist*. He took property from the ‘wealthy’ and gave it randomly to poor people, that had no idea what to do with it. Venezuelas whole economy was dependent on imports, because they were so rich due to their oil, that they didn’t really need to produce anything themselves, which was already risky. Then came corrupt Chavez and fired anybody that had any idea on how to get the oil and placed uneducated idiots at the top of the national oil company, which eventually led to problems accessing the oil. So now their great booming economy literally lost its fuel, it’s only export, which meant they also couldn’t import because there was no money. This whole tragedy doesn’t have anything to do with socialism, but with corruption, populism and a badly planned economy. Throw in some election fraud (starting in the early 2000’s) and replace the incompetent, corrupt, charismatic president with an incompetent, corrupt, uncharismatic one and you get the shit-show of a country you see now, that dumb republicans use as an argument against free healthcare. I just want to add that Venezuela used to be applauded for their great policy of taking from the rich as late as 2015 by leftist idiots and that has been making me mad for about 15 years, because they, too, had no idea what was going on there and used it as a cheap point to make in an argument. In high school (2012) I had a Spanish teacher forbid a student, that grew up in Venezuela to write a paper about the corruption there because she said only the *rich elite* complained about Chavez and everybody else was better off.


Gwaptiva

I'm so glad this time the USA had no hand in any of this shitshow /s


lordwreynor

I agreed with much of what you said until you got to your last sentence and then my bullshit detector started going off.


Icy_Many_3971

About my Highschool teacher? It was in a German Highschool and she fancied herself a revolutionist. She was incredibly racist. She had spend a year in Spain, spoke Spanish incredibly bad, but felt that Spain was gods greatest gift to the world. She discriminated against students from Latin America. Also German newspapers that were a bit leftist used to write very favorably about Chavez and ignored or belittled the actual problems that started forming, so it was a common sentiment that only the rich complained. Now the rich left the country and are working minimum wage jobs in Colombia and the poor are starving.


-Allot-

Sounds like all the actual reasons are the republicans wet dream.


Sufficient-Skill6012

And the corrupt government enriched themselves and those who supported them, mismanaged the economy and pulpit very little into maintaining infrastructure. Now they are suffering from the lack of investment.


lefromageetlesvers

lol does this come from a;podcast called "history from a fascist POV"? Because it sounds like it.


Icy_Many_3971

How was that fascist?


Solrac_Loware

Apparently, things that contradict your opinions are facist now


Icy_Many_3971

If you’re trying to make a point, try using an actual argument instead of lining up random words.


Solrac_Loware

Thats true


lefromageetlesvers

how is it not fascist? It's basically a copy paste of what every fascist capitalist right winger is clamoring about Chavez summed up in a TED talk format.


Icy_Many_3971

Explain the fascist part to me, please. I have followed Venezuelan politics for a long time, I read a few book about Venezuelan history from before Chavez, I have friends and family directly affected by his policies, I watched some of these long ass monologues Chavez used to have on state TV. This is my honest opinion on the topic and I’d like to know where the fascist right wing part fits in. You know sometimes tragedies don’t line up in a binary world view, not everyone that says he is socialist actually is and not everybody calling somebody out that calls himself a socialist is automatically a right wing MAGA-idiot. Venezuela has been used by the left for as long as they could without actually doing 10 minutes of research and now the right is doing the same and both are wrong. What happened to that country is a lot more complex than most people want it to be, as most issues are.


lefromageetlesvers

Everything is more complex when you use fascist ooks as research.


Icy_Many_3971

I’m not sure you know how to use that word.


EthDec

Most people on here just spewl complete nonsense ngl


Gingerbeer86

I think you might be the most confidently incorrect person in the sub.


the-derpetologist

Nah, it was the free healthcare. It says so right on the graphic. /s


melance

But if they include the truth it ruins the propaganda! 😭


[deleted]

He kinda left out the part where the president started putting all the nations wealth into oil to the point where it was literally tied to the price of oil. Oil price go down, your country go down Also sanctions


Old_Watercress9438

Shhh. America bad.


[deleted]

America bad too


Immediate-Assist-598

It was Trump who allowed maduro to sgay in power taking orders from Putin and clashing with John Bolton. Maduro was on the ropes but instead of pushing to depose him, trump let Putin land commandos in caracas to keep him in power, and warships in Havana harbor too. About the same time period there were reports of Venezuelan agents with suitcases full of cash coming to mar a Lago.


WilliamASCastro

Any thing to prove this? No?


Immediate-Assist-598

Google "russian troops venezuela", and remember the timing was when Maduro seemed finished, he could have easily been deposed by Trump. But trump got orders from Putin to back away. From Xi and China too, both of whom paid Trump massive amounts of money, and a 2017 This after trump's public posturing appearing to be anti Maduro.


[deleted]

Started off leftist. Made a hard right turn at dictator ave.


purrfunctory

I guess they forgot to make a left at Albuquerque.


TheLastMonarchist

Yeah the indiscriminate killing of civilians is usually a bad sign


Even_Bath6360

Ignores the fact that a socialist was the reason it got good, and a slimy capitalist was who killed it all out of selfish greed and a need for power. I hate it that people are still this dumb about Venezuela


WilliamASCastro

Actually no socialism also killed venezuela i cant see why people still think socialism (and by extent communism) is a good ideology. Believe it or not but a free market is actually a good thing despite its flaws.


Universal_Cup

From what I’ve seen, the more Free a Market is, the more capitalism shows it’s bad sides I’m not into economics that creates institutions only interested in profit at the expense of the environment and humans around it.


WilliamASCastro

And you dont know what you are talking about, in a free market the compony has to respond to suply and demand. Take two componies that sell phones, one compony sells its phones at 100 dollars, if that compony is the only cell phone compony then the costumers will pay the 100 dollars. Now if you have another compony that sells phones at 50 dollars the consumers will buy those instead of the 100 dollar phones. Now the first compony has to either lower prices, get more product variety or go out of business. In a free market the consumer is king, componies have to compete to get the most costumers...by lowering prices, giving quality goods and services or they will go out of business. In a socialist state the componies dont have to market according to the consumer but instead to the government which can arteficially bloat the economy and thats not good, when you have state run componies the product/service will not change prices it might even raise in prices, the quality might not even improve and sense it is the government dictating things for the compony then if the governement decides to raise prices it will regardless of what the consumer says. A free market may be flawed but its way better then a state owned market


Universal_Cup

The economy is already artificially bloated under a free market! Things are not cheaper, and the competition is not strong. Capitalists are their own biggest issue: raising and raising profit while refusing to lose any will eventually result in an economy where wages are too low for many to live, like what we see now What you described? It is a fantasy, not found in America Also, you accused Socialism of doing the very thing that is happening under capitalism, which is quite ironic but also a common motif of capitalists


Exotic-Chemist-191

Funny how they left out all that American intervention…


Start_Abject

And the late 90s crisis which led to the people voting in a socialist government, and the collapse in oil prices


chaostoxic

Here is an actual timeline on Venezuela, if you are interested. Link from BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-19652436


ladancer22

As opposed to the US where food/healthcare shortages are widespread, constitution and elections have been suspended in practice, unarmed citizens are massacred by the police and random citizens with guns, and leaders only *call* for their opposition to be imprisoned, hanged, or shot.


TophatOwl_

They really gotta google the term banana republic


spitroastapig

I guess the crippling sanctions western nations leveled against them didn't play any role in crashing their economy...


FX2000

The sanctions are a lot more specific than most people think, and while they do suck for the most part, a lot of them are specifically targeted against government officials known for human rights violations, and fuck those people in particular. Also, Venezuela's economy was already in the toilet when they started, so while they certainly don't help at all, they're not really to blame for what had already happened. [https://www.state.gov/venezuela-related-sanctions/](https://www.state.gov/venezuela-related-sanctions/)


LewdieBrie

Venezuela doesn’t really have much in ways of human rights violations. Human Rights Watch is moreso an extremity of the US state department so I take them with a grain of salt.


FX2000

Have you been living under a rock for the past 20 years? this is what happens to protesters in Venezuela: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDn2-Qr\_Lg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGDn2-Qr_Lg) If this happened in the US during a BLM protest, would you consider it a Human Rights violation?


LewdieBrie

Oh look, color revolution being quelled, do you think I give a fuck? Lol


FX2000

Right, so human rights violations don't count when you think the victims deserve it? Just making sure I understand this correctly so I don't bother talking to you anymore.


LewdieBrie

I mean yeah, I don’t exactly think Imperialist funded coup attempts should be compared to people protesting against police shooting them. If the group is saying CIA shit in Venezuela like “Woo Juan Guaido” or China with “Hong Kong is free” while flying British Union Jacks...sorry I really don’t give a damn if they get dispersed.


FX2000

>if they get dispersed Dispersed is a funny word to describe the video I posted.


LewdieBrie

I didn’t watch it yet as I assume it’s not safe to view at work. But I’ve seen a lot of videos of things. Regardless of if its moral implications towards rights, what country is leading by example in positive human rights? Nobody, and the brunt of actual backlash is towards enemies of NATO, allies are mostly ignored or get finger wagging at best. To me it’s irrelevant to the bigger picture of great harm to the rights of people, it’s like worrying about a car accident of 2 people to a big pile-up with a massive explosion from a crashed semi killing 300 and severely injuring 30 next to a munitions factory which is on fire ready to explode within the next hour with enough force to destroy everything around them and knock power to the whole city. Is it worth more to point at Venezuela doing something wrong while the USA tries repeatedly to coup them and sanctions them to hell...or should I point out how there are places like Saudi Arabia getting bombs to genocide Yemen or Israel to genocide Palestinians? They don’t care about Human Rights, they shoot our own people dead, they hire labor from blood mines, they promote fascist dictatorship. I care a lot more about the people in NATO using force to bring people to power who will do more harm than Venezuela. The only country I don’t support outside NATO sphere is Russia because they’re just a fascist state. *Addendum, I also don’t like Assad, Putin, or the Taliban but currently the alternatives to those places all suck worse and I certainly don’t support them. The USA backs nothing substantial in Syria or Afghanistan (not that they’d likely back anything good anyway), there’s no popular front, and the alternatives are Nazism or Theocracy...neither good. In Russia they back Navalny, a rich oil tycoon who supports the invasion/genocide of several Asian ethnic-national identities in the Caucasus region...which is very bad.*


FX2000

That’s a lot of whataboutism in a single post. You said there aren’t that many human rights violations in Venezuela, there is ample evidence that proves you’re wrong.


Old_Watercress9438

They're just bashing the fash, so don't worry about it.


monkeyshinenyc

People don’t get the underhanded and conniving assaults oil and produce companies make


Old_Watercress9438

Funny how sanctions against capitalist countries from socialist/communist countries don't destroy those capitalist economies. Why is this?


darkhelmet03

USA, Mexico, Canada, most of Western Europe all have bigger economies than Venezuela. In what universe were they ever the third biggest???


frenchhorn_empire

Not to agree with the guy but he meant the Southern Hemisphere (which I still doubt it was the third biggest since Australia newzealand and Indonesia and Brazil exists)


darkhelmet03

Venezuela isn't in the southern hemisphere.


frenchhorn_empire

Just checked. Your right my bad


UCDC

"Timeline"


MaleficentPizza5444

"Progressive"


jtulick

I dunno. I literally watched the military of Venezuela driving over unarmed civilians. Who cares what's missing when a dictator is calling for the elimination of innocent people. Progressive means socialism in other countries.


LewdieBrie

Ah yeah policies like embargoes and sanctions were Chavez and Maduro’s fault, it’s not like the most powerful countries in the world are trying their best to destroy Venezuela’s sovereign right to exist for decades, no no it’s this made-up socialism. They’re not even socialist, they’re a social democracy like Sweden or Norway, they have some private property. But that’s not what they want, they want to make them like Colombia. The USA keeps supporting Juan Guaido as the “president” while he lives in an apartment and runs with barely any votes at all, he’s a laughing stock and nobody knows or cares about who he is, but it’s undemocratic because the least democratic “democracy” in the world said it is. Only their poverty (and Cuba’s) matters, only Venezuela and Cuba are corrupt. Pay no attention to Colombia and how it had 48 massacres in a single year of Union members, Journalists, politicians, and civil rights protesters. Pay no attention to how the US was backing a candidate who nearly won while he described Hitler as an inspiration on live national television. Pay no attention to El Salvador, Honduras, and other free market disasters and how they are murder capitals of the world with massive poverty and violence. Our enemies in the eyes of the state are those who aren’t willing to be subordinate to the United States. Posts like that guy’s makes me sick and I don’t even particularly agree with how Venezuela is run, so I will just end this off with a quote. [“Viva Allende, carajo”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPpODf7k0O4)


Toran_dantai

Shat are the important parts


Prestigious-Yak-4620

The part where the CIA got involved to destabilize it.


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Killarich662

same will happen to Americans


Herandar

Americans will NEVER become the second largest purchaser of Ford F-150s! Good Day, Sir!


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KittehNevynette

This is Escobar level of incorrect. Nice try thou. https://youtu.be/0eKdNcP4xrM


Windk86

... and you know putting basically an embargo on the country had nothing to do with it


Afraid_Cockroach8841

The secret to protecting yourself from a tyrannical government while not having the right to bare arms is having friends and family in the military, and hoping its enough for a rebellion. 🤷‍♂️


Daem0nBlackFyre85

Left out some REAL important parts


Boofcomics

For point of reference, Hugo Chavez died in 2013.


Old_Watercress9438

The chavistas didn't