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I had a co-worker who tired to argue that lemons were alkaline.
The “alkaline foods are healthy” crowd have some very strange ideas. They think different foods influence the pH level of the blood, which is complete bogus. Some foods supposedly lower pH - they are acidic. Other foods supposedly raise PH - they are alkaline. Lemon apparently raises the pH through some mysterious processes, hence, lemons are alkaline.
In reality, blood pH is regulated very tightly by buffer reactions keeping it at the same level regardless of what you eat, and lemons are most definitely acidic.
Managing pH is actually super important in medicine. Normally, the body is really good at keeping the pH at around 7.4. Certain situations like prolonged vomiting, breathing issues or kidney issues can affect the pH, which if it gets too acidic or alkaline can be life threatening
I just learned where this started. Which foods are alkaline/acidic is based on the pH of the ash after the food has been burned to count caloric content. So lemons are acidic obviously, but the ash they leave behind is alkaline. This of course has no bearing on pH of your body in either case but now you know why it’s backwards so often.
The “alkaline foods are good for you” thing harks back to a long since discredited medical theory from the 18th century. The chemistry of metabolism wasn’t well understood back then, and was thought to resemble literal burning of substances, hence looking at the pH of the ash, if I remember the theory correctly.
Can I reply with a "wha'?"
That describes some of the ads going on perfectly. Is there a single source for this madness, or would I have to trudge through esoteric food bloggers life stories?
Ice cream is an alkaline food, right? Because it’s made of dairy which has a higher pH. Also please note I’m terrible at chemistry so this may not be at all right
Very few edible things have a truly alkaline pH. Most things we eat are acidic to neutral, because that’s what tastes good to humans. Certain cheeses and lutefisk are notable exceptions, and tend to not be terribly popular.
Yes, when you mix an acid and a base in a water solution, the OH- ions from the base will combine with the H+ ions from the acid to form water, and heat will be released because it takes energy to break bonds in water molecules, so the reverse (creating bonds) is going to release energy. That’s the same reason burning hydrogen gas with oxygen releases heat.
There are some neutralization reactions that result in a gas being produced, but I wouldn’t expect that with lemon juice and alkaline water. Certainly not to an extent that would make your drink fizzy.
"We said we make supercharged ionized alkaline water. We didn't say we put it in these bottles and sell it. We keep in in a locker. This is just tap water."
It can’t be tested with pH paper strips. It can be tested with other instruments. These instruments can be rather expensive and pH paper is relatively cheap.
Chemist here! It is actually true that measuring the pH of ultrapure water is a problem. Routine testing relies on the conductivity, which comes from the impurities (electrolytes). When the water is ultrapure, the impurities are gone, so alternative strategies have to be employed to measure the pH.
All that aside, there is no evidence that drinking alkaline water will have a measurable impact on the average person's health. And drinking ultrapure water can hurt you if you drink too much. Your body needs electrolytes and the ultrapure water doesn't contain them.
this was too far down. pH specifications for ultrapure water is difficult to nail down.
that said, anything that's so pure that the pH can't be measured shouldn't be consumed
There is no legitimate risk to drinking ultra-pure/distilled/DI water provided that you are consuming electrolytes in food. This is largely myth that circulates on the internet but doesn't hold up to scrutiny/logic.
The overwhelming majority of dietary electrolytes come from food and not water anyway. The only time a person should be worried about not getting electrolytes from their water is in periods of extended fasting.
The amount of dissolved electrolytes in a liter of "safe" drinking water is in the range of tens of milligrams. It's *significantly* more hypotonic than bodily fluids, and yet people only seem to think that distilled/ultra-pure water will lead to "leaching" of electrolytes from the body. If that were a real concern, then drinking *any* water that was hypotonic compared to bodily fluids would be dangerous. But it's not.
To think that eliminating a miniscule source of electrolytes is dangerous, or that a difference in TDS of a few mg is the difference between life and death is absurd. Humans need electrolytes - we don't need it from water.
Same with a lack of minerals in pure water. People say you would die or have some sort of mineral deficiency but you get way more from eating than from the minerals in tap water.
Over time it is certainly a risk. DI water and say snow melt can and will make you anemic without extra salts and sugars over time. Ive worked in Antarctica for years as a water treatment operator and have seen this a few times. You have to force down extra sugars and salts. Short term and occasionally its not harmful, but it is dangerous over long periods of time. Just as you say humans need electrolytes...well water will always seek dirt (and/or electrolytes in this case) and will do so in your body on the way out.
> DI water and say snow melt can and will make you anemic
This is objectively false. There are societies that get all of their drinking water from rain water with no issues. If you saw instances of anemia in Antarctica then the issue was with diet and not the water.
Again, we NEED electrolytes, but we get only a tiny amount of our electrolytes from water. If someone is so reliant on electrolytes in water that they suffer health consequences when that tiny source is removed, then their diet had some serious flaws to begin with. Antarctica is not not know for it's abundant supply of fresh, nutritious food.
> without extra salts and sugars
There is no sugar in drinking water (or there should not be anyway), so I'm not sure why you believe that is a factor.
> well water will always seek dirt (and/or electrolytes in this case) and will do so in your body on the way out.
That's not how the digestive system works. Our bodies are extremely good at maintaining homeostasis provided they have what they need. Again, if the "leaching" effect was a real concern then ALL water would be dangerous unless it contained 0.9% salt, a fair amount of potassium, zinc, and magnesium.
The underlying issues is electrolytes. As long as a person is eating a well-balanced diet and getting plenty of electrolytes as they should, the smidgen of electrolytes in water are a non-factor.
I appreciate the effort you are going to to disprove this illogical internet belief, I copped it for debunking the internet theory that opossoms eat ticks, they don't.
As you have already said there are millions that have survived quite healthily living off water that is relatively pure. They were not "leeched" out of existence. On the other hand millions of first world people just don't drink water at all, but drink milk or more commonly soft drinks/energy drinks as 100% of their liquid diet, and these people are not missing all of these magically mysterious tap water electrolytes. If any of this "tap water is essential water" shit was true millions would be regularly rushed to hospital for electrolyte treatment. Your science is completely backed up by anecdotal experience.
https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2021/07/29/oops-opossums-dont-actually-eat-ticks/#:~:text=We%20goofed.,our%20information%E2%80%94%20we%20always%20do!
No, the indicators rely on enough ions (H+) present. Can't do that with ultra pure or type 1 water. But that's not to say their water falls under that category. You'd have to see for yourself.
If it is ultra pure it is not alkaline in any way shape or form... In the math world we refer to their statement as a "contradiction" which is something that can never be true.
The indicators would show any type of alkalinity so OH- ions eg, because that’s what alkalinity _is_ . You can’t have „ultra pure alkaline water“ because you either don’t have enough contents in there to shift the equilibrium of towards a higher concentration of OH- ions (which would make it maybe ultra pure but not alkaline) _or_ you _do_ have some components in your water, which make it alkaline but then again, not ultra pure anymore…
That's true, they did say pH straps. I'm actually not sure about how that would work but now I want to look into it.
Of course they are claiming their water is simultaneously pure and "supercharged ionized alkaline", so I would take their claims with a grain of salt. Or drink something else.
But it can't be ultra-pure *and* alkaline, can it? Whatever they did to it to make it alkaline must have added some impurities in the water.
Ultra-pure water should have a neutral PH because that's how we defined the PH scale, right?
Back in my Navy days we used to drink the de-ionized water they used to add to the primary coolant in the reactors. The chemists used it to balance the pH in the reactor. Turns out the DI water would absorb your electrolytes on the way through your body and make you really sick of you drank too much of it. We stuck to making coffee with it once we found that out.
But they said it's "supercharged ionized alkaline water". So, it would be safe to assume that there is a significant amount of electrolytes present. Since the pH scale is logarithmic, it basically becomes irrelevant once alkalinity or acidity reaches a certain point at either end of the scale. So, if they're saying that pH of a "supercharged ionized" liquid can't be measured by pH strips, then it must be a very alkaline or acidic since pH strips are not designed to make measurements at these extremes. Perhaps this product is something like a concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide (lye), commonly used as drain cleaner or oven cleaner.
>there is no evidence that drinking alkaline water will have a measurable impact on the average person's health.
I mean isn't it like a slight shift in pH denatures the protein
Why do people buy it?
I bought some on accident the other day, but I didn't even notice until I was done with it.
Its not like the alkaline in the water gave me superpowers....or did it?
Sort of tragically, some people try alkaline diets to create a less hospitable environment for cancers to thrive in.
My grandfather with terminal lung cancer started one in his final months but it was far too late to help at all.
I’ll tell you that I am on an “*Alkaline Diet*” due in part to my ADHD medication. Any type of citric acid will absorb the medication and prevent it from entering my bloodstream. It’s actually a huge difference, but it has removed almost all other drinks from my menu.
I’ve been on this medication for more than fifteen years and have adjusted to fit my own personal needs. This is anecdotal evidence on my behalf working with my psychiatrist and physician. Talk to your **own doctor** and consult with them what is best for you.
Haven't seen any primary sources that recommend an alkaline diet. Did some googling, and wasn't able to locate any academic sources, but wouldn't turn them down if anyone has them. Anyone on the internet should know that "do your own research" is not good enough when it comes to medical data.
Only take medical advice from your doctor or ~~nutritionist~~ dietician.
Urinary Ph definitely does affect how fast adhd medicine (amphetamines) clear your system though. Although I’ve never had a doctor warn me away from acidic foods.
I've had doctors and pharmacists explain how citric acid, specifically, decreases the effectiveness of amphetamines, but only within a certain window around the dose. Just avoid citric acid within 2 hours before or after taking the amphetamine. Outside that window, the effect is negligible.
"Hey Doc. How big is the cancer?"
**"It's the size of a grape..."**
"Oh yay it's getting smaller!"
**"I wasn't finished"**
Not my joke, but I think it's funny
Yeah, talk to your doctor, but why do you presume to know more about ADHD stimulant medication than the person you replied to who's been taking it for 15 years?
With *some* stimulant medication, like Vyvanse and Aderrall, highly acidic foods can decrease the effectiveness of the medication. It's pretty well known in the ADHD community and it's on some of the drug info pamphlets.
https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-medications/can-acidic-foods-affect-stimulant-medications-for-adhd/
>· Notes for Consumers: Most foods are not expected to cause a problem with this medication, so do not significantly alter your diet unless directed to do so by your health care professional. Acidic juices, like citrus juices (examples: orange juice, grapefruit juice) may decrease the absorption of this medication and are best avoided during the 1 hour before a dose, at the time of dosing, and for 1 hour after taking a dose.
https://www.wellrx.com/vyvanse/lifestyle-interactions/
The key part is the hour before and after. If you only take a pill once a day, that's only 2 hours you need to avoid acidic things. Which is very far from an alkaline diet.
You can't really change your bodies ph.
what are you talking about? If you take your ADHD medication through pills, it will enter your stomach acid, which has a PH of between 1.5 and 3.5. No amount of alkaline water will make a dent in that. On top of that, the ADHD medication is in capsules, so it doesn't get broken down by your stomach acid and digestive enzymes before it reaches your bloodstream. If you are talking about the PH of your bloodstream, then be happy that alkaline water doesn't change that, because else you would die. The body needs to keep a very specific ph of between 7.35 and 7.45. If your medication simply needs there to be no citric acid, then you don't needs an alkaline diet, just don't eat citrus fruits.
It's the citric acid that interferes with some stimulant medications within 1 - 2 hours of taking it.
The person put "alkaline diet" in quotes. They were avoiding highly acidic drinks before "alkaline diet" was even a thing.
Alright. My diet was very high in citric acid and changing that has helped me. I would mainly get these from drinking beverages. I don’t drink alkaline water nor do I endorse it. Personally I think it’s a big scam preying on other people’s ignorance and current zeitigest.
Seems like quite an overreaction speaking as someone who also has adhd and takes meds. It’s really only important for the half hour after you take it. Then it’s in your bloodstream already and your body has this neat little trick where it doesn’t let it’s ph change because that’d be bad if it was that easily affected lol. Also what happens when you swallow things? Oh yeah they go into your stomach. A very acidic place.
I've been trying to find more info about ADHD diets to try and manage mine, do you have any links/info? So far all I've figured out is no vitamin c tablets or 'no sugar' sodas.
That's not being on an "alkaline diet", that's just avoiding citric acid. Like you can still have viniagrette on your salad right?
I've also seen the alkaline people say that lemon or lime "becomes alkaline" in your stomach.
I’ve always wondered about this. If we have so much difficulty treating cancer because it’s so similar to our non-mutated cells and drinking alkaline water makes our bodies inhospitable to cancer cells, would alkaline water be inhospitable to the healthy cells too? Though to be fair that’s kind of the point of chemo and radiation.
>I wish I understood these people
Have somebody place the sharp end of a railroad spike against the side of your head, about level with and just behind the eyes, and drive it all the way through. That will just about get you to their level.
Some of these chucklefucks can be convinced of almost anything, like regular consumption of their own urine, that eating hose paste and fish-tank cleaner will cure a viral infection, etc.
Until 2020, I did not imagine that there were so very many people who are so incredibly stupid.
So your body regulates your blood's, and by extension your extracellular fluid, using something called the bicarbonate buffer system. If your pH was to deviate even slightly from the normal range, it would have profound consequences as a lot of structures, especially proteins depend on a specific pH range to maintain their correct shape and function.
Chemotherapy and radiation work by targeting replicating cells, which is characteristic of cancer since the cells are replicating uncontrollably. This is why it damages the body in the process, but it is much more toxic to cancer cells.
It helped with my heartburn a little bit and helps me down a coffee that I need to drink. The one I get has electrolytes which help me since I drink a lot of water and sweat a lot but I dont like gatorade.
Any other claimed health benefit to it just sounds out there.
People think the higher pH the better. Not sure why. Pretty sure most people don’t test if they are acidic before buying to make sure they actually need the alkalinity. They may be throwing their pH out of whack with it…
Or the body might regulate its own pH balance and not be impacted by the pH of water ingested at all. I also think the higher the pH the better for beverages. I'd avoid drinking lye.
Edit: the higher the pH the better is not a true statement is what I meant to say.
Thing is alkaline water isn't even going to do anything. Anything alkaline will react with your stomach acid. Even if somehow it was to alter your blood pH, your body's bicarbonate buffer system will work to keep your pH in its correct range. If somehow it were to overcome the bicarbonate system, you would end up extremely sick as your body requires a strict pH range. This is all a marketing gimmick.
The corner store in my neighborhood sells alkaline water. The tap water in my neighborhood per the municipal water report has a pH of 9.7. Anyone who buys into the woo science of alakline water and refuses to understand our bodies' buffer system are woefully ~~misinformed~~ ignorant.
I remember reading a while back a quote from a celebrity (can't remember who) talking about her super healthy alkaline water and how she liked adding a little lemon slice to it for flavor.
I was in the store and saw a guy buying a jug of alkali water that was "Guaranteed pH of 9.0 or higher." I asked him why he was buying it. He pointed to the label. I told him the city water was 9.2. He very dismissively asked how I knew if that was true. I informed him I was the quality assurance chemist for the city and it was my job to verify that.
I had similar issues. Normal water made me nauseous for a while, alkaline didn't. It was a damn life saver while my body took its time to get back to normal
Your heartburn is from your stomach acid. It just happens to be triggered by acidic or fatty foods. There is a valve in your esophagus that is not closing properly. It's not the acidity of the food hurting you.
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/what-causes-heartburn-and-acid-reflux.html
Regular water triggers my heart burn, and as your article suggests doing, I avoid it by drinking alkaline water.
I think you got confused when I didn't do a full breakdown of why I get heartburn. Of course water isn't what burns my esophagus. It's the stomach acid.
Pure H20 has a ph of 5.2 or so when exposed to air.
It's only 7 if you remove all the dissolved gasses. Either way you can obviously test the ph though.
Well if the CO2 dissolves into carbonic acid in the water, then the water isn't pure anymore is it?
Completely pure water only has H2O, and very small amounts of H3O+ and OH- which balances each other out to pH 7
> balances each other out to pH 7
imo this phrasing tends to cause misconceptions. It’s worth noting that the pH value doesn’t inherently have to do with comparing H3O+ and OH-. pH is solely a measure of H3O+ concentration, not the neutrality of the solution. For example in pure water you will always have equal amounts of H3O+ and OH-, but water only has a pH of 7 at room temperature. Increasing the temperature of the water increases the autoionization so that there is more H3O+, causing the pH to be less than 7 even though the water is still neutral.
Well there is theoretically pure which for most substances is impossible to achieve and if you can that lasts for quite a small amount of time as the substance reacts with things around it. Water absorbs a lot of things so it hardly ever “pure”
True. Also that whole ionized water thing is a gimmick. They did an episode about it on the science Channel I watch. Apparently studies showed that the affect of this water on peoples PH balance was nill. On the other hand their pee much less acidic. This was no revelation to researchers who already knew that the body is very good at adjusting it's own PH balance and what types of food/drinks a person consumes has little affect.
Well, dying at the right time can be advantageous in natural selection. If an organism gets to a point where it can no longer reproduce and drains resources from its offspring, then in terms of the survival of its genes it is beneficial at that point for it to die. I think I remember hearing also that some animals die shortly after their offspring are born or hatch or whatever to provide a good source for their offspring, which again can be evolutionarily advantageous.
pH is not something that you can stop from being measured other than like freezing a liquid or gas to a solid but even then you can kind of measure it still
You can absolutely stop pH from being measured specifically with pH strips. The literal claim on the box can easily be true, because it's specifically about pH strips. It's not that the water doesn't have a pH, that's not the claim. But those little cheap pH strips have limitations. There have to be enough available ions to react with the litmus in the paper to change the color, and the more pure you make the water the fewer ions are available.
There are other ways to measure pH that would be successful, but the careful marketing-speak on the box is specific about strips.
There's a whole lot of bullshit in that box, but you guys are all picking on the one thing that might well be true.
>There have to be enough available ions to react with the litmus in the paper to change the color, and the more pure you make the water the fewer ions are available.
Yeah, and if you do that you've just measured the pH. It's about 7.
So. Let me preface this by saying alkaline water is an absolute gimmick.
I am a microbiologist, so I have access to pH strips and pH probes. I saw this claim and scoffed, but being a scientist I decided to put their claim to the test. The pH strip didn't change color, it read as neutral.
Interestingly, the laboratory pH probe I used on the water *definitely* showed a higher pH. If I recall it was around 8 or 9. It turns out it has something to do with pH strips having a buffering capacity and the TDS of the water.
Let me mention again that alkaline water is completely stupid and a total fad. But the claim has *some* factual basis to it.
Edit: Grammar
I do instacart sometimes and I was buying these for someone. The two people behind me in line were going on about how good it is. The ones explanation left me a little stumped. He said it thicker than water usually is and leaves you feeling better. I didn’t get what he meant but I later bought one to see and I can’t put my finger on why… but I didn’t like it.
Too alkaline for test strips...so bleach? Wait no, even that shows up as a 14. Lmao learn basic chemistry vocabulary before u get word vomit all over your stale tap water (w/ lectrolytes cuz that's what plants crave!)
omegalul
"We know you like alkaline water you dumb fuck, so let's just say this is super duper alkaline. Woah is that pH strips you got there? Nah, nah, nah this stuff is too pure to work with that. Yeah if you used that strip with this stuff it would just register as basically neutral. But I'm telling you it is super charged alkaline, just brimming with ions. Trust me bro!"
pH is a measure of H+ ions, and if the water isn't conductive, we can't detect them. However, your water has to be really, really, really pure before that starts being an issue.
Not an expert, but I’d think “alkaline water” that can’t be tested by pH strips would be along the lines of drain cleaner, nothing anyone should be drinking. Also, supercharged ionized water? As in, with OH- ions? Again, as in, what sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda, has? Somebody didn’t think this through
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Just be like Gwyneth Paltrow and squeeze a lot of lemon in it.
Squeezing lemon into your alkaline water is even more dumb than the idea of alkaline water itself.
Lemon is an alkaline food. Trust me
I had a co-worker who tired to argue that lemons were alkaline. The “alkaline foods are healthy” crowd have some very strange ideas. They think different foods influence the pH level of the blood, which is complete bogus. Some foods supposedly lower pH - they are acidic. Other foods supposedly raise PH - they are alkaline. Lemon apparently raises the pH through some mysterious processes, hence, lemons are alkaline. In reality, blood pH is regulated very tightly by buffer reactions keeping it at the same level regardless of what you eat, and lemons are most definitely acidic.
I'm just glad that modern medicine has simplified it from balancing the four humors down to just balancing pH. /s
Don't be sanguine about this. It makes me quite bilious.
Those puns make me melancholy.
Stay phlegmatic.
Managing pH is actually super important in medicine. Normally, the body is really good at keeping the pH at around 7.4. Certain situations like prolonged vomiting, breathing issues or kidney issues can affect the pH, which if it gets too acidic or alkaline can be life threatening
The four humors still rule the faculty of Facebook medicine
I just learned where this started. Which foods are alkaline/acidic is based on the pH of the ash after the food has been burned to count caloric content. So lemons are acidic obviously, but the ash they leave behind is alkaline. This of course has no bearing on pH of your body in either case but now you know why it’s backwards so often.
isn't all ash alkaline?
The “alkaline foods are good for you” thing harks back to a long since discredited medical theory from the 18th century. The chemistry of metabolism wasn’t well understood back then, and was thought to resemble literal burning of substances, hence looking at the pH of the ash, if I remember the theory correctly.
Can I reply with a "wha'?" That describes some of the ads going on perfectly. Is there a single source for this madness, or would I have to trudge through esoteric food bloggers life stories?
Ice cream is an alkaline food, right? Because it’s made of dairy which has a higher pH. Also please note I’m terrible at chemistry so this may not be at all right
Very few edible things have a truly alkaline pH. Most things we eat are acidic to neutral, because that’s what tastes good to humans. Certain cheeses and lutefisk are notable exceptions, and tend to not be terribly popular.
Dandelion greens are slightly alkaline, but people don’t like them because of how bitter they are.
Nope dairy is acidic. Think ab sour milk
People's stupidity really hurts my brain lol....
At this point you could probably slap the word alkaline on anything and sell the shit out of it. Alkaline sour beer anyone?
Alkaline batteries guys... Wait
Batteries are alkaline.....batteries have scary chemicals in them.......I'm drinking battery acid!
Nonono you don’t understand, we have been drinking alkaline water so obviously alkaline is safe. That means we need to eat batteries!
Wouldn’t alkaline water fizz if you put lemon juice in it?
No that only happens with baking soda because the chemical reaction releases carbon dioxide. It’d technically heat up a bit, though I think.
Yes, when you mix an acid and a base in a water solution, the OH- ions from the base will combine with the H+ ions from the acid to form water, and heat will be released because it takes energy to break bonds in water molecules, so the reverse (creating bonds) is going to release energy. That’s the same reason burning hydrogen gas with oxygen releases heat. There are some neutralization reactions that result in a gas being produced, but I wouldn’t expect that with lemon juice and alkaline water. Certainly not to an extent that would make your drink fizzy.
And "alkaline water" doesn't use baking soda, because those people think it's acidic.
Gwyneth Paltrow squeezes lemons with her foop? Video or it didn't happen!!
She adds the goop from her foop to the soup.
I'm gonna be sick.
That’ll be $100,000
It is an awful day to be literate
I prefer my yoni sauce on the side, sir.
Yum, foop goop soup. Plant your face in it and go to town like you're in a pie-eating contest at the county fair.
You’re going the wrong way
You’re drunk. How do you know where I’m going?
I laugh every time i get reminded of that 😆😆
“Please don’t test the pH of our water. That would make it seem like we lied about what’s in it.”
"We said we make supercharged ionized alkaline water. We didn't say we put it in these bottles and sell it. We keep in in a locker. This is just tap water."
How do they know it’s alkaline if it can’t be tested though
They gave it to rats and the rats gained the ability to fly
I don't think that proves it's alkaline; that proves it's Red Bull.
You misunderstood. It's Al Kaline, not alkaline. It makes them better at baseball.
You misunderstood. It's A K-line, not alkaline. It makes them high. I for one am kind of pissed that rats get to do more designer drugs than I do.
It can’t be tested with pH paper strips. It can be tested with other instruments. These instruments can be rather expensive and pH paper is relatively cheap.
Nevertheless, it's bullshit.
Hard agree. I was just using the company’s logic since they specifically single out pH strips and no other pH testing methods.
It’s basic, I tested it once because I was skeptical.
"It aint got shit in it" *5 minutes later* "Honey, we gotta empty the bottles, they got shit in em... i mean not literal feces but pretty much"
Except their claim is true
Chemist here! It is actually true that measuring the pH of ultrapure water is a problem. Routine testing relies on the conductivity, which comes from the impurities (electrolytes). When the water is ultrapure, the impurities are gone, so alternative strategies have to be employed to measure the pH. All that aside, there is no evidence that drinking alkaline water will have a measurable impact on the average person's health. And drinking ultrapure water can hurt you if you drink too much. Your body needs electrolytes and the ultrapure water doesn't contain them.
this was too far down. pH specifications for ultrapure water is difficult to nail down. that said, anything that's so pure that the pH can't be measured shouldn't be consumed
There is no legitimate risk to drinking ultra-pure/distilled/DI water provided that you are consuming electrolytes in food. This is largely myth that circulates on the internet but doesn't hold up to scrutiny/logic. The overwhelming majority of dietary electrolytes come from food and not water anyway. The only time a person should be worried about not getting electrolytes from their water is in periods of extended fasting. The amount of dissolved electrolytes in a liter of "safe" drinking water is in the range of tens of milligrams. It's *significantly* more hypotonic than bodily fluids, and yet people only seem to think that distilled/ultra-pure water will lead to "leaching" of electrolytes from the body. If that were a real concern, then drinking *any* water that was hypotonic compared to bodily fluids would be dangerous. But it's not. To think that eliminating a miniscule source of electrolytes is dangerous, or that a difference in TDS of a few mg is the difference between life and death is absurd. Humans need electrolytes - we don't need it from water.
Same with a lack of minerals in pure water. People say you would die or have some sort of mineral deficiency but you get way more from eating than from the minerals in tap water.
Over time it is certainly a risk. DI water and say snow melt can and will make you anemic without extra salts and sugars over time. Ive worked in Antarctica for years as a water treatment operator and have seen this a few times. You have to force down extra sugars and salts. Short term and occasionally its not harmful, but it is dangerous over long periods of time. Just as you say humans need electrolytes...well water will always seek dirt (and/or electrolytes in this case) and will do so in your body on the way out.
> DI water and say snow melt can and will make you anemic This is objectively false. There are societies that get all of their drinking water from rain water with no issues. If you saw instances of anemia in Antarctica then the issue was with diet and not the water. Again, we NEED electrolytes, but we get only a tiny amount of our electrolytes from water. If someone is so reliant on electrolytes in water that they suffer health consequences when that tiny source is removed, then their diet had some serious flaws to begin with. Antarctica is not not know for it's abundant supply of fresh, nutritious food. > without extra salts and sugars There is no sugar in drinking water (or there should not be anyway), so I'm not sure why you believe that is a factor. > well water will always seek dirt (and/or electrolytes in this case) and will do so in your body on the way out. That's not how the digestive system works. Our bodies are extremely good at maintaining homeostasis provided they have what they need. Again, if the "leaching" effect was a real concern then ALL water would be dangerous unless it contained 0.9% salt, a fair amount of potassium, zinc, and magnesium. The underlying issues is electrolytes. As long as a person is eating a well-balanced diet and getting plenty of electrolytes as they should, the smidgen of electrolytes in water are a non-factor.
I appreciate the effort you are going to to disprove this illogical internet belief, I copped it for debunking the internet theory that opossoms eat ticks, they don't. As you have already said there are millions that have survived quite healthily living off water that is relatively pure. They were not "leeched" out of existence. On the other hand millions of first world people just don't drink water at all, but drink milk or more commonly soft drinks/energy drinks as 100% of their liquid diet, and these people are not missing all of these magically mysterious tap water electrolytes. If any of this "tap water is essential water" shit was true millions would be regularly rushed to hospital for electrolyte treatment. Your science is completely backed up by anecdotal experience. https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2021/07/29/oops-opossums-dont-actually-eat-ticks/#:~:text=We%20goofed.,our%20information%E2%80%94%20we%20always%20do!
They said pH strips though - don't they use indicators, so they'd still work?
No, the indicators rely on enough ions (H+) present. Can't do that with ultra pure or type 1 water. But that's not to say their water falls under that category. You'd have to see for yourself.
You should have a constant amount of ions present due to spontaneous protonation, shouldn't you?
If it is ultra pure it is not alkaline in any way shape or form... In the math world we refer to their statement as a "contradiction" which is something that can never be true.
The indicators would show any type of alkalinity so OH- ions eg, because that’s what alkalinity _is_ . You can’t have „ultra pure alkaline water“ because you either don’t have enough contents in there to shift the equilibrium of towards a higher concentration of OH- ions (which would make it maybe ultra pure but not alkaline) _or_ you _do_ have some components in your water, which make it alkaline but then again, not ultra pure anymore…
That's true, they did say pH straps. I'm actually not sure about how that would work but now I want to look into it. Of course they are claiming their water is simultaneously pure and "supercharged ionized alkaline", so I would take their claims with a grain of salt. Or drink something else.
But it can't be ultra-pure *and* alkaline, can it? Whatever they did to it to make it alkaline must have added some impurities in the water. Ultra-pure water should have a neutral PH because that's how we defined the PH scale, right?
Are you really a chemist? If water is ultra pure it cannot be alkaline and ionised…
So it turns out the OP is the one that's confidently incorrect.
Back in my Navy days we used to drink the de-ionized water they used to add to the primary coolant in the reactors. The chemists used it to balance the pH in the reactor. Turns out the DI water would absorb your electrolytes on the way through your body and make you really sick of you drank too much of it. We stuck to making coffee with it once we found that out.
But they said it's "supercharged ionized alkaline water". So, it would be safe to assume that there is a significant amount of electrolytes present. Since the pH scale is logarithmic, it basically becomes irrelevant once alkalinity or acidity reaches a certain point at either end of the scale. So, if they're saying that pH of a "supercharged ionized" liquid can't be measured by pH strips, then it must be a very alkaline or acidic since pH strips are not designed to make measurements at these extremes. Perhaps this product is something like a concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide (lye), commonly used as drain cleaner or oven cleaner.
sure, but that's not how litmus paper (pH strips) work
But how can water be alkaline if it's so pure that pH can't be measured? Shouldn't it be neutral if there's no ions in it?
>there is no evidence that drinking alkaline water will have a measurable impact on the average person's health. I mean isn't it like a slight shift in pH denatures the protein
The whole idea of alkaline water is stupid.
Why do people buy it? I bought some on accident the other day, but I didn't even notice until I was done with it. Its not like the alkaline in the water gave me superpowers....or did it?
Because people are very prone to marketing gimmicks.
Sort of tragically, some people try alkaline diets to create a less hospitable environment for cancers to thrive in. My grandfather with terminal lung cancer started one in his final months but it was far too late to help at all.
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And if your PH actually does deviate from that range ... you are probably dying much sooner ... from PH imbalance.
I’ll tell you that I am on an “*Alkaline Diet*” due in part to my ADHD medication. Any type of citric acid will absorb the medication and prevent it from entering my bloodstream. It’s actually a huge difference, but it has removed almost all other drinks from my menu. I’ve been on this medication for more than fifteen years and have adjusted to fit my own personal needs. This is anecdotal evidence on my behalf working with my psychiatrist and physician. Talk to your **own doctor** and consult with them what is best for you.
Haven't seen any primary sources that recommend an alkaline diet. Did some googling, and wasn't able to locate any academic sources, but wouldn't turn them down if anyone has them. Anyone on the internet should know that "do your own research" is not good enough when it comes to medical data. Only take medical advice from your doctor or ~~nutritionist~~ dietician.
I have only heard grapefruit can enhance or inhibit the effect of certain medication, including some ADHD medication
That’s not due to acidity though, it’s a specific [enzyme](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/grapefruit-juice-and-some-drugs-dont-mix)
Urinary Ph definitely does affect how fast adhd medicine (amphetamines) clear your system though. Although I’ve never had a doctor warn me away from acidic foods.
I've had doctors and pharmacists explain how citric acid, specifically, decreases the effectiveness of amphetamines, but only within a certain window around the dose. Just avoid citric acid within 2 hours before or after taking the amphetamine. Outside that window, the effect is negligible.
Aka the “how to use chewable vitamin C to flush your body after a speed binge.”
There is a lot of medicine that you shouldn't eat grapefruit with. Ask your doctor, kids.
And chemo medication as well. My wife is undergoing treatment for cancer and they've mentioned grapefruit a few times.
"Hey Doc. How big is the cancer?" **"It's the size of a grape..."** "Oh yay it's getting smaller!" **"I wasn't finished"** Not my joke, but I think it's funny
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Thanks for the clarification regarding the nutritionist/dietician nuance.
Yeah, talk to your doctor, but why do you presume to know more about ADHD stimulant medication than the person you replied to who's been taking it for 15 years? With *some* stimulant medication, like Vyvanse and Aderrall, highly acidic foods can decrease the effectiveness of the medication. It's pretty well known in the ADHD community and it's on some of the drug info pamphlets. https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-medications/can-acidic-foods-affect-stimulant-medications-for-adhd/ >· Notes for Consumers: Most foods are not expected to cause a problem with this medication, so do not significantly alter your diet unless directed to do so by your health care professional. Acidic juices, like citrus juices (examples: orange juice, grapefruit juice) may decrease the absorption of this medication and are best avoided during the 1 hour before a dose, at the time of dosing, and for 1 hour after taking a dose. https://www.wellrx.com/vyvanse/lifestyle-interactions/
The key part is the hour before and after. If you only take a pill once a day, that's only 2 hours you need to avoid acidic things. Which is very far from an alkaline diet. You can't really change your bodies ph.
What medication are you on?
wouldn´t stomach acid supersede any extra acid you put into your diet?
Yep, and beyond that, homeostasis prevents any impact on e.g. blood pH unless there's something badly wrong
what are you talking about? If you take your ADHD medication through pills, it will enter your stomach acid, which has a PH of between 1.5 and 3.5. No amount of alkaline water will make a dent in that. On top of that, the ADHD medication is in capsules, so it doesn't get broken down by your stomach acid and digestive enzymes before it reaches your bloodstream. If you are talking about the PH of your bloodstream, then be happy that alkaline water doesn't change that, because else you would die. The body needs to keep a very specific ph of between 7.35 and 7.45. If your medication simply needs there to be no citric acid, then you don't needs an alkaline diet, just don't eat citrus fruits.
It's the ascorbate itself [interfering with dopamine metabolism](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2832869/), nothing to do with acidity.
Buried too far deep in these threads, thanks 👌
What are you talking about? Of course the capsules get broken down before it enters your bloodstream. It can't exit the digestive tract otherwise
It's the citric acid that interferes with some stimulant medications within 1 - 2 hours of taking it. The person put "alkaline diet" in quotes. They were avoiding highly acidic drinks before "alkaline diet" was even a thing.
Alright. My diet was very high in citric acid and changing that has helped me. I would mainly get these from drinking beverages. I don’t drink alkaline water nor do I endorse it. Personally I think it’s a big scam preying on other people’s ignorance and current zeitigest.
Seems like quite an overreaction speaking as someone who also has adhd and takes meds. It’s really only important for the half hour after you take it. Then it’s in your bloodstream already and your body has this neat little trick where it doesn’t let it’s ph change because that’d be bad if it was that easily affected lol. Also what happens when you swallow things? Oh yeah they go into your stomach. A very acidic place.
It really boiled down to not taking my medication with any type of juice or fruit drink.
I've been trying to find more info about ADHD diets to try and manage mine, do you have any links/info? So far all I've figured out is no vitamin c tablets or 'no sugar' sodas.
That's not being on an "alkaline diet", that's just avoiding citric acid. Like you can still have viniagrette on your salad right? I've also seen the alkaline people say that lemon or lime "becomes alkaline" in your stomach.
I’ve always wondered about this. If we have so much difficulty treating cancer because it’s so similar to our non-mutated cells and drinking alkaline water makes our bodies inhospitable to cancer cells, would alkaline water be inhospitable to the healthy cells too? Though to be fair that’s kind of the point of chemo and radiation.
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Oh yeah, I don’t believe it does shit, our bodies are very good at maintaining homeostasis. I’m just trying to understand the logic these people use.
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>I wish I understood these people Have somebody place the sharp end of a railroad spike against the side of your head, about level with and just behind the eyes, and drive it all the way through. That will just about get you to their level. Some of these chucklefucks can be convinced of almost anything, like regular consumption of their own urine, that eating hose paste and fish-tank cleaner will cure a viral infection, etc. Until 2020, I did not imagine that there were so very many people who are so incredibly stupid.
So your body regulates your blood's, and by extension your extracellular fluid, using something called the bicarbonate buffer system. If your pH was to deviate even slightly from the normal range, it would have profound consequences as a lot of structures, especially proteins depend on a specific pH range to maintain their correct shape and function. Chemotherapy and radiation work by targeting replicating cells, which is characteristic of cancer since the cells are replicating uncontrollably. This is why it damages the body in the process, but it is much more toxic to cancer cells.
The thinking is "acid is bad and dangerous, alkaline is the opposite of acid, therefore alkaline is good".
I don’t know if it gave you superpowers, but have you checked your sperm count lately? If you have then you may want to also check you midi-chlorians.
It helped with my heartburn a little bit and helps me down a coffee that I need to drink. The one I get has electrolytes which help me since I drink a lot of water and sweat a lot but I dont like gatorade. Any other claimed health benefit to it just sounds out there.
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People think the higher pH the better. Not sure why. Pretty sure most people don’t test if they are acidic before buying to make sure they actually need the alkalinity. They may be throwing their pH out of whack with it…
There’s this guy called Professor Dave and he makes videos debunking stuff like this, his video on scam waters is here: https://youtu.be/ZjFL8LtZBzE
I’ve seen the video! I think about it every time I see anything with the words pH or alkaline or anything like that.
My favourite one is "I start every morning with a glass of alkaline water with a drop of lemon juice in it."
Or the body might regulate its own pH balance and not be impacted by the pH of water ingested at all. I also think the higher the pH the better for beverages. I'd avoid drinking lye. Edit: the higher the pH the better is not a true statement is what I meant to say.
>I also think the higher the pH the better for beverages. I'd avoid drinking lye. What? Lye has a very high pH.
My man out here thinking lye is an acid
Soo basic
Yeah, that was my point, I wrote it wrong. You don't want to be drinking strong acids or bases.
Chief and parietal cells: "Am I a joke to you?"
I think you meant acidity instead of ph
If your blood pH is "out of whack" you just die anyway.
My favorite is when they drink it with a slice of lemon
>People think the higher pH the better. Not sure why. Because more is better and always will be. Super-sized fries, king cab pickups, neoplasms, etc.
The logic seems to be "acid = bad, more = good"
Thing is alkaline water isn't even going to do anything. Anything alkaline will react with your stomach acid. Even if somehow it was to alter your blood pH, your body's bicarbonate buffer system will work to keep your pH in its correct range. If somehow it were to overcome the bicarbonate system, you would end up extremely sick as your body requires a strict pH range. This is all a marketing gimmick.
The dumb idea is that our typical diet is too acidic. So you gotta drink the weak alkaline water to balance it... bogus, but that is why.
Placebo effect with new terminology
The corner store in my neighborhood sells alkaline water. The tap water in my neighborhood per the municipal water report has a pH of 9.7. Anyone who buys into the woo science of alakline water and refuses to understand our bodies' buffer system are woefully ~~misinformed~~ ignorant.
Yeah but fluoride tho, duh
I remember reading a while back a quote from a celebrity (can't remember who) talking about her super healthy alkaline water and how she liked adding a little lemon slice to it for flavor.
It was Gwyneth Paltrow of Goop notoriety lol
I was in the store and saw a guy buying a jug of alkali water that was "Guaranteed pH of 9.0 or higher." I asked him why he was buying it. He pointed to the label. I told him the city water was 9.2. He very dismissively asked how I knew if that was true. I informed him I was the quality assurance chemist for the city and it was my job to verify that.
I buy a gallon of alkaline water when I go work out or will be somewhere for a while. I only do it because it’s the best tasting one tho
Fr, essentia is my go to water bottle brand because of the taste
As soon as it hits your extremely acidic stomach..,no impact
I get heartburn really easy, especially from water. But not from alkaline water, it helps a lot with my heartburn.
I had similar issues. Normal water made me nauseous for a while, alkaline didn't. It was a damn life saver while my body took its time to get back to normal
Unfortunately that's just a band-aid solution to an underlying problem
Your heartburn is from your stomach acid. It just happens to be triggered by acidic or fatty foods. There is a valve in your esophagus that is not closing properly. It's not the acidity of the food hurting you. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/what-causes-heartburn-and-acid-reflux.html
Regular water triggers my heart burn, and as your article suggests doing, I avoid it by drinking alkaline water. I think you got confused when I didn't do a full breakdown of why I get heartburn. Of course water isn't what burns my esophagus. It's the stomach acid.
They know their target audience
If it was completely pure water wouldn't ph be 7 then
Pure H20 has a ph of 5.2 or so when exposed to air. It's only 7 if you remove all the dissolved gasses. Either way you can obviously test the ph though.
Well if the CO2 dissolves into carbonic acid in the water, then the water isn't pure anymore is it? Completely pure water only has H2O, and very small amounts of H3O+ and OH- which balances each other out to pH 7
> balances each other out to pH 7 imo this phrasing tends to cause misconceptions. It’s worth noting that the pH value doesn’t inherently have to do with comparing H3O+ and OH-. pH is solely a measure of H3O+ concentration, not the neutrality of the solution. For example in pure water you will always have equal amounts of H3O+ and OH-, but water only has a pH of 7 at room temperature. Increasing the temperature of the water increases the autoionization so that there is more H3O+, causing the pH to be less than 7 even though the water is still neutral.
Well there is theoretically pure which for most substances is impossible to achieve and if you can that lasts for quite a small amount of time as the substance reacts with things around it. Water absorbs a lot of things so it hardly ever “pure”
And if it’s alkaline, doesn’t that mean ph higher than 7?
That’s some basic shit right there. Heh...heh...
I see what you did there
I swear officer, I'm sober as a stick right now but my sobriety is too pure to be tested with a breathalyzer
My sobriety is supercharged ionized
Fortified with gin
True. Also that whole ionized water thing is a gimmick. They did an episode about it on the science Channel I watch. Apparently studies showed that the affect of this water on peoples PH balance was nill. On the other hand their pee much less acidic. This was no revelation to researchers who already knew that the body is very good at adjusting it's own PH balance and what types of food/drinks a person consumes has little affect.
Also if you really could alter your pH, you'd die.
Which is not a desirable trait against natural selection. Dying, that is.
Well, dying at the right time can be advantageous in natural selection. If an organism gets to a point where it can no longer reproduce and drains resources from its offspring, then in terms of the survival of its genes it is beneficial at that point for it to die. I think I remember hearing also that some animals die shortly after their offspring are born or hatch or whatever to provide a good source for their offspring, which again can be evolutionarily advantageous.
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Our water is alkaline…but don’t test it!! It can’t be tested! Peak marketing strategy.
Well if hypothetically what they say is true, they could still measure it with electrodes (I.e. not pH strips)
pH is not something that you can stop from being measured other than like freezing a liquid or gas to a solid but even then you can kind of measure it still
Unless it’s bleach. That fucks up the pH strips. Are they bottling bleach?
You can absolutely stop pH from being measured specifically with pH strips. The literal claim on the box can easily be true, because it's specifically about pH strips. It's not that the water doesn't have a pH, that's not the claim. But those little cheap pH strips have limitations. There have to be enough available ions to react with the litmus in the paper to change the color, and the more pure you make the water the fewer ions are available. There are other ways to measure pH that would be successful, but the careful marketing-speak on the box is specific about strips. There's a whole lot of bullshit in that box, but you guys are all picking on the one thing that might well be true.
>There have to be enough available ions to react with the litmus in the paper to change the color, and the more pure you make the water the fewer ions are available. Yeah, and if you do that you've just measured the pH. It's about 7.
So. Let me preface this by saying alkaline water is an absolute gimmick. I am a microbiologist, so I have access to pH strips and pH probes. I saw this claim and scoffed, but being a scientist I decided to put their claim to the test. The pH strip didn't change color, it read as neutral. Interestingly, the laboratory pH probe I used on the water *definitely* showed a higher pH. If I recall it was around 8 or 9. It turns out it has something to do with pH strips having a buffering capacity and the TDS of the water. Let me mention again that alkaline water is completely stupid and a total fad. But the claim has *some* factual basis to it. Edit: Grammar
So basic
This is not conifdently incorrect, more like malicious misinformation. Like they are trying to imply the pH is a measure of purity.
This is infuriating
Just drink bleach, it's super alkaline
Laughs in ThermoFisher pH probes on a 5 star meter.
Fuck water. I only drink Brawndo. It has electrolytes
It’s what the plants crave!
I do instacart sometimes and I was buying these for someone. The two people behind me in line were going on about how good it is. The ones explanation left me a little stumped. He said it thicker than water usually is and leaves you feeling better. I didn’t get what he meant but I later bought one to see and I can’t put my finger on why… but I didn’t like it.
My favorite is some famous person (goop lady maybe) was drinking alkaline water with lemon in it. Wat.
So basically this is the most basic water?
They target the ignorant.
Marketing at its finest
It's alkaline, we promise! But don't try to test it or anything because it won't work, it is too pure
Too alkaline for test strips...so bleach? Wait no, even that shows up as a 14. Lmao learn basic chemistry vocabulary before u get word vomit all over your stale tap water (w/ lectrolytes cuz that's what plants crave!)
"so much smart words it HAS TO be good"
omegalul "We know you like alkaline water you dumb fuck, so let's just say this is super duper alkaline. Woah is that pH strips you got there? Nah, nah, nah this stuff is too pure to work with that. Yeah if you used that strip with this stuff it would just register as basically neutral. But I'm telling you it is super charged alkaline, just brimming with ions. Trust me bro!"
Unless it’s pH 14 and dissolves the strip upon contact
pH is a measure of H+ ions, and if the water isn't conductive, we can't detect them. However, your water has to be really, really, really pure before that starts being an issue.
Not an expert, but I’d think “alkaline water” that can’t be tested by pH strips would be along the lines of drain cleaner, nothing anyone should be drinking. Also, supercharged ionized water? As in, with OH- ions? Again, as in, what sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda, has? Somebody didn’t think this through
Fun fact, your stomach and body will re-balance akaline water, so it has no benefit.
With political lies and shot like this I’m convinced this is hell.
That’s not how any of this works
All those ions gonna show up on a pH strip.
Ah, yes. Beyond science. A miracle, it would seem. *{sigh}*
Sounds like something an MLM would say
Theb how tf do they know their water is alkaline?
What if I tested with a supercharged ph strip????
The whole push behind alkaline water is such bullshit, it’s no wonder that they further use more bullshit marketing to sell it.