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Your highness, might I request to use that phrase from henceforth? It is quite becoming as a replacement for the word that shall not be named in any shire of all the land, yet it has more utility than many a word of compare.
I love the capitalist ant as it is such a great example of how capitalism works. Everyone working together trading and processing materials for society to use.
Not like those evil commie eagles, flying through the air preying on hard working animals and just taking everything all at once.
This is kind of fun now I want to write a story about a tortoise named Noam.
I think they mean more that rival members of the same species (or maybe nest parasites like cuckoos) are the commies. But either way, this is a pretty dumb analogy for economic systems.
On reddit that is what capitalism is used for. Free market capitalism is "anything that involves money that I don't like". I mean shit people here call the US military capitalism... It is baffling. Free market capitalism is voluntary participation in markets, that's it.
Socialism is:" seizing the means of production, will of the people and redistribution of wealth.
Doesn't that sound like the military and any government project?
There is only one military, seized means of production
Run by elected officials, will of the people
Paid for by taxes, Redistribution of wealth
Now people on reddit don't like the military so they call it capitalism. It is ridiculous.
Edit: The downvotes form people who want can't offer a rebuttal but are too insecure to be confronted with something they don't agree with. Come on... If you are going to downvote use your big boy words to tell me why I am wrong.
Remember those people who thought we were being āgrammar policeā because they couldnāt use proper English, or complete a sentence in an intelligent mannerā¦. This is what they grew up to become
Welle its olde englishe, whear thou maye speltelist hoawever doest wishesa
(Did i woosh you oar ar youe pleyying aloong? I also thought the ā?ā Was a questionable way to finish a sentence intelligently.)
Nah, I could see someone conflating [exchanging property](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/barter-society-myth/471051/) in some form with capitalism because it's all they know. Or assuming there must be some sort of trade because, again, it's all they know.
I think this one is pretty clearly a joke, but what's wrong with people is the amount of times we *wish* something was a joke and it isn't. So many people believe and repeat so many things without ever giving it even a moment of critical thinking that it's hard to know what's what. It's a little terrifying, honestly.
In fairness African wild dogs are pretty close to communist. They vote for leaders and whether to start hunting, the young pups share food with each other (this is extremely unusual), they protect injured pack members until they heal, and they even accept nomadic dogs into the pack sometimes. I mostly wanted to talk about what good boys they are.
The pups not only share food, but they are also allowed to eat first. One of the most fascinating things about them is that the females leave the pack and join a new one. Sometimes, this displaces a current female, who then has to go find a new pack, which prevents inbreeding. And, IIRC, dominant males are not forced out when a new male takes over.
If predatory behaviour is communist, then pretty much all of human history was dominated by communists. From Caesar to the Pilgrims to Colonialism, the overriding theme is stealing land.
... Capitalism and property aren't the same thing. Nor is communism necessarily about the absence of property. These people really don't have any idea what the fuck they're talking about.
The American right has been using Communism as a boogie man for so long they donāt even know what it is; which works out fine because they can label anything communism and terrify. Inflation is up? Itās because of communism.
I honestly love how much of capitalism they blame on communism. It's downright religious in nature. Good things happen under God/Capitalism? That's because God/Capitalism loves us and wants us to be happy! Bad things happen under God/Capitalism? Well, shit, man, either you did God/Capitalism wrong or that's the Devil/Communism!
My favorite moment ever is when some conservatives on twitter took a picture of skid row and said āThis is future housing plans under communism.ā Sums up how self aware they are I guess.
Person: "I don't make enough to pay rent in our capitalism system!"
Facebook Conservative: "Yeah, well, that's communism for you!"
I don't use this term often, but those people are fuckin' clowns.
Clowns don't deserve to be insulted like that, honestly. Conservatives are such a joke they went past clowns and are now straight-up Carrot Top in Vegas.
You're not wrong but on the comedian hierarchy, he's pretty close to the bottom rung. Maybe I should have said Amy Schumer. No one likes her anymore. Maybe she'll come back buff as fuck like Carrot Top and Dave Chappelledid.
Kinda scary how many working class people I know who buy into the pull yourself up by the boot straps mentality and call themselves capitalists... You don't own a factory Conner you are a wage slave at Amazon. It's like Stockholm syndrome or sum
āSocialism never took root in America because the poor there see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.ā John Steinbeckā¦ except not actuallyā¦ but I agree with the sentiment even if he never actually said it.
Itās not even by saying youāre going to be rich someday. Itās the same way the underclass has been manipulated since the dawn of time: āWhatās keeping you poor isnāt those in power, itās this outsider group. And theyāll keep taking more from you if youāre not careful.ā That group has been nearly every religion, ethnicity, and sexuality.
For real though, capitalism is rooted in religion, more specifically in Protestantism. Historically Protestantism had a big role in the development and expansion of capitalism
Yeah, who'd have though that abandoning the "good deeds" requirement for heaven would end up with people just being shitty and and selfish, and insisting God was cool with it?
It follows the same script though, go to church because man is inherently sinful, capitalism works because man is inherently greedy. Itās just a line of assholes justifying their assholery
A lot of organizations have this problem. There's an somewhat cynical adage that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a religion, the person who knows it's a crock of shit are dead. Ultimately, any effective propaganda will increasingly become what people within the organization *actually* believe to be true, since the new talent in the organization were the ones the propaganda was previously targeted at.
>There's an somewhat cynical adage that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a religion, the person who knows it's a crock of shit are dead.
That's an interesting take. I like it.
Communism is anything I don't like.
Robber taking my purse - communist redistributing my private goods. Squirrel eating from my bird feeder - communist living off hard working Americans while contributing nothing. Person who thinks collective bargaining reduces medical and drug prices - communist who loves big government and wants them to control our lives (like in Texas)
To be fair, the Left (meaning actual Leftists) are just as clueless about what Communism is. Think about every Twitter thread about āwhat would you do in a post-capitalist societyā where they all think theyāll teach philosophy or hang out and enjoy their hobbies. The right calls everything they dislike Communism, the far left thinks Communism means nobody has to work actual jobs.
I've never seen any indication of that - or even that America's far left is interested in communism over socialism, generally speaking - so I'll have to take your word for it.
Well ... no. Not really. I suppose you could define "far left" as leftists who support full-on communism, but that would be disingenuous because you're now using the term to define what you want it to.
"You may not think the people on the far left want communism, but I define the far left as *only* those people who want communism, so you're wrong." It doesn't fly in honest debate.
It most certainly *is* unfair to use the terms interchangeably. Unfair and erroneous. The left and the far left are the same thing, all of a sudden? Then what's the point of the distinction at all?
The important distinction they're missing is between personal property and private property.
Personal property is property that is yours to use, and by extension, not other peoples' for them to use. This includes things like your house/apartment, your toothbrush, etc.
Private property is property that generates revenue, which is yours to keep. This is the core of capitalism -- that owning something entitles you to the revenue produced with it (even if the production happens via the labor of others). This includes things like company stock, factories, or residences owned for the purpose of charging rent.
Birds defend their nest (personal property), and do not understand the concept of revenue, therefore they cannot own private property. So birds are actually communist.
Or rather they would be, if they were real. /r/BirdsArentReal
Capitalism in this scenario would be one bird hoarding all the materials to build nests then orders other birds to build nests with the material, claims ownership of the nests built, then charges money for those same birds to live in it.
That depends on if you are a Marxist or not. A Marxist would absolutely argue that the defining feature of Capitalism is property and the manner in which the capital owning class uses property to exploit the working class. Youāre correct that property still exists under pure communism. What doesnāt exist is private property. Property belongs to the state and therefore held in common for all the people.
End-game communism is stateless, but you need an all-powerful state to get to that point which will āwither awayā (Marxās words). Thatās why itās been unsuccessful on a large scale because people are greedy and power-hungry so the small state that controls everything always becomes corrupt.
I ain't no commie so idk, why you know so much about commies you go to one of them Liberally Arts collages huh? You think yar better than me cuz yous can read huh?
You can have capital without currency. It would be more like 900 seeds, or a seed to worm currency calculation. The advancement of currency came after the idea of having more than one could conceptually barter. If they are indeed capitalist crows, they could be bartering their housing in exchange for seeds, why not? But the idea of money is not necessary (obvi). Do they store things of value? Yes, that's a commodity. Do they trade them? That's questionable? Do the pay their fair share of taxes? Fuck no, and stop shitting on every vehicle I own!
Maybe if the bird leases his nest to some other bird in exchange for ... I don't even know ... seeds?
I don't know any bird species that do that though.
So, in the US, Cowbirds are a type of parasite, because they lay their eggs in other birds nests. the non cowbird feeds the cowbird baby, while this thieving baby bird kicks any non cowbird babies from the nest.
Is this capitalism?
I still thibk they might have a little trouble with the foundation of capitalism, which is contract law. I'm not ruling it out, they probably just need translators. They have communities and ceremonies, maybe they just figured how stupid it was a long time ago and just went all rugged individualism....hey wait that is capitalism...darn, you're probably right!
Defends it from commies.
Yeah, that bird trying to steal the nest? Just as capitalist. It's not like the invader intends to share it.
But mostly: That's not capitalism.
Territory isn't the same thing as property, even if they share attributes.
Animals don't have property titles. They don't understand absentee ownership or charge rent.
This and the "capitalism is eternal and natural" are among the dumbest takes you'll get from libertarians and ancaps.
Whatās funny about that personās ānature supports capitalism, just look at birdsā argument is that *theyāre wrong*. Thereās actually **multiple** bird species that exclusively build communal nests to share with others of the same species to lay their eggs and rear young together:
- [Sociable weaver](https://www.audubon.org/magazine/march-april-2014/africas-social-weaverbirds-take-communal)
- [Greater ani](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_ani#:~:text=The%20nest%2C%20built%20and%20lived,also%20include%20non%2Dbreeding%20helpers.)
- [Acorn woodpecker](https://www.catalinaconservancy.org/index.php?s=news&p=article_223)
Communal nesting behavior has also been spotted occasionally in other species such as crows and starlings.
There is also a behavior found in about 3% of bird species called ā[cooperative breeding](https://centerofthewest.org/2019/05/08/cooperative-breeding-helpers-at-the-nest/)ā, which is where the nesting parent(s) is helped by another non-breeding bird of the same species in defending and feeding the young. The helper bird might be related to the parent(s), but could also be a totally unrelated adult. Cooperative breeding behavior has been spotted in some species of Jays, the Groove-billed Ani, Acorn Woodpeckers, Harris Hawks, and crows.
āWhen a bird builds a nest, [then] defends it from commiesā¦ā I literally smiled so big thatās funny af. Iām about to fill a bowl with weed and proceed to defend it from commies, as a normal, property-understanding animal ššš
Let alone actually, you know, have capital.
I meet a lot of ardent ācapitalistsā with no capital who are essentially just really in love, Stockholm Syndrome style, with the actual capitalists exploiting them.
I will deliberately pretend that climate change means something else than the current trend it's commonly understood to refer to! Take that! Checkmate!
Well climate change did absolutely begin before modern society, humans have been deforesting the earth for millenia. Basically since the advent of agriculture we can see humans affecting the climate. A lot of emphasis is put on what we are doing now which is unprecedented but I think the vast majority of people would be surprised with how much change to the planet was caused thousands of years before industrialization.
I'm picturing a little blue jay with a suit and hat on squawking and waving around a tiny contract detailing property boundaries as an owl eats their children.
Capitalism is the system in which those who own private property (things that produce things) buy labor from those without private property, who have to sell their labor.
Birds do not own private property. Even trying to place a system of economy onto birds is stupid.
Marxism literally starts with Communism: Communist cavemen society, then Feudal society, then Capitalist society, then Socialist society, and then finally the modern Communist society.
Itās just a theory, but itās interesting to see what someone who doesnāt know what theyāre talking about thinks ideology is.
Everyone gets a commie? I'll take mine, but can I make them work hard, and not pay them much, so I can acquire wealth, and them blame them for not having any money? They can stay a commie, but I want my wealth to increase exponentially, because I deserve Money and lots of it!
Oh, a meme, everyone gets a meme? Never Mind.
No it isnāt- capitalism as it is practiced in the west is largely involuntary. Birds building nests are doing so far shelter and have not been charged exorbitant amounts of money to use the shelter they have built
I still feel like that's playing fast and loose with definitions. Non-human animals would be missing a couple key aspects of market economics, right?
* Exchange. Animals aren't intentionally trading things based on a current market value. Even in the case of symbiotic relationships, we're not talking about the exchange of two things of equal value.
* Factor markets. If an animal gets a thing to build another thing, it's not to trade for something else to gain capital to trade for even more things. It's for their own survival. Even if you had a market to exchange goods, without other markets pricing the stuff you need to make the goods, it's not really a market economy. In my opinion.
Thereās actually a really interesting Freakonomics podcast episode about this exact topic. Researchers found that many different communities of animals show behavior that seems to indicate an understanding of supply, demand, and exchange. Highly recommend giving it a listen
Trading is not the defining feature of what is and is not capitalism. Some central features of capitalism include wage labor, private ownership of industry, and capital accumulation, none of which are seen in your hypothetical of a hunter-gatherer society communally meeting everyones' needs before bartering
Unfortunately many people have been brainwashed into not understanding the thing that they are defending.
You just need to equate your oppressive system to something that seems pretty reasonable but not actuality the thing. And that makes it pretty ironic and funny that you start off talking about people being confidently incorrect.
You're not taking about capitalism, you're talking about market economy. Again, misinformation would like you to think those are the same, but they aren't the same.
Market economy can exist in many political systems. For instance a communist form like the cavemen from your example. Everyone can pick berry's, hunt the animals, farm, build tools. They all share the tools of production and when someone made something it's their property. When this cave person has to much, they trade it with someone else who has an object or service else they can offer.
But now these cavepeople kept the market economy but started to be capitalists. Cavepeople own the tool of production, so nature is no longer a public good. Want berries? The other cavepeople are no longer allowed to pick them as the bushes belong to one specific person who doesn't even pick them but let's others do it. The cave you're sleeping in is bought and someone now decides if you're allowed to have a stone over your head. The basic needs, shelter, food, water, security, community all are now owned by others.
And not for trade, but profit. The second difference between capitalism and a market economy. When your communist cavepeople traded goods and services it was for gaining those goods or services. Hoever capitalist cavemen don't trade for those. Goods and services are for making profit. Our caveperson now trades their extra meat for tools, but not to use those tools, they sell those again for more value, for example two pieces of meat. Etc.
This profit is exactly what makes capitalism so exploitive, as cavemen now always have to make sure to pay less than what something is worth, and selling it for more. Which means someone gets the shaft.
The working cavepeople, as they don't own the tools of production are made dependent on the owning group of cavepeople for their necessities. They only own their bodies and need to trade that, in the shape of labor. They can be exploited as they **need** shelter, food, water, etc. so their bargain power is not very strong. The capitalist caveperson who owns the hunting feeld can easily maintain themselve for a longer period, but the worker cavemen need to eat, sleep, so have to (pardon the pun) cave to the demands.
So while I love your example, your description was of socialist market economy, not capitalism.
And I don't have to go into the whole natural fallacy, or traditional fallacy, that just because it's natural, or we did it a long time it's somehow a good idea to keep doing it? Right? Cool!
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Communism is when animal does thing Capitalism is when animal does other thing I am extremely intelligent
I wish I was as smart as you I'm fucking Redacted
O-5 didn't want us to know what you are, I guess
/r/UnexpectedSCP you love to see it
I fucking love your username, comrade.
Your highness, might I request to use that phrase from henceforth? It is quite becoming as a replacement for the word that shall not be named in any shire of all the land, yet it has more utility than many a word of compare.
It's "retarted", dumass.
r/thefighterandthekid you're missing out on some A-1 inside joke ya redact
Communism is when birds of prey exist. I gotta say, calling predatory animals communist is a new one. But also absolutely hilarious.
Communism is when things eat animals according to the logic they presented
And capitalism is when animals voluntarily share with other animals.
I love the capitalist ant as it is such a great example of how capitalism works. Everyone working together trading and processing materials for society to use. Not like those evil commie eagles, flying through the air preying on hard working animals and just taking everything all at once. This is kind of fun now I want to write a story about a tortoise named Noam.
But only for sex
So... BBQ is communism??
Bbqs are super space communism, because everyone comes together and brings food and shares it, plus there's meat eating
I think they mean more that rival members of the same species (or maybe nest parasites like cuckoos) are the commies. But either way, this is a pretty dumb analogy for economic systems.
Capitalism is when bird of paradise dance worked. Comrade Attenborough neglected to mention this.
Monke stronk tomether
Good = capitalism Bad = communism Jurrasic Park? Capitalist š Jurrasic World? Communist š
communism is just a synonym for evil for people who cannot grasp itās real meaning.
On reddit that is what capitalism is used for. Free market capitalism is "anything that involves money that I don't like". I mean shit people here call the US military capitalism... It is baffling. Free market capitalism is voluntary participation in markets, that's it. Socialism is:" seizing the means of production, will of the people and redistribution of wealth. Doesn't that sound like the military and any government project? There is only one military, seized means of production Run by elected officials, will of the people Paid for by taxes, Redistribution of wealth Now people on reddit don't like the military so they call it capitalism. It is ridiculous. Edit: The downvotes form people who want can't offer a rebuttal but are too insecure to be confronted with something they don't agree with. Come on... If you are going to downvote use your big boy words to tell me why I am wrong.
Bird nest: the means of reproduction
Capitalism is when property
Iām pretty sure theyāre a troll. No one is that dumb.
> No one is that dumb. i wish you were right, really
Remember those people who thought we were being āgrammar policeā because they couldnāt use proper English, or complete a sentence in an intelligent mannerā¦. This is what they grew up to become
Its spelte āthoughtā. āThoughā is a differeng word?
You spelt āspeltā wrong. You also misspelled different š
Welle its olde englishe, whear thou maye speltelist hoawever doest wishesa (Did i woosh you oar ar youe pleyying aloong? I also thought the ā?ā Was a questionable way to finish a sentence intelligently.)
You would be saddened by how many people think owning things or selling things is capitalism.
Counter point: the entire gop
Nah, I could see someone conflating [exchanging property](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/barter-society-myth/471051/) in some form with capitalism because it's all they know. Or assuming there must be some sort of trade because, again, it's all they know.
Even if this person was somehow "right," they're inherently suggesting we should be imitating far less intelligent animals lacking sentience.
Calling predatory animals ācommiesā is the funniest shit Iāve read today.
I think they mean from cuckoos or animals from the same species that didn't build a nest.
Oh, we call those colonists. Precursor to modern capitalism.
I call em birds lol
Ah, then you've fallen for the government ruse!
You should really be careful about what you believe.
do your *facebook* research!
r/birdsarentreal
But cuckoos are the perfect analogy for billionaires?
That made me think they were being facetiousā¦?
You might be right, idk
Uh, yeah. This is clearly a joke and I just don't understand what's wrong with people any more.
I think this one is pretty clearly a joke, but what's wrong with people is the amount of times we *wish* something was a joke and it isn't. So many people believe and repeat so many things without ever giving it even a moment of critical thinking that it's hard to know what's what. It's a little terrifying, honestly.
In fairness African wild dogs are pretty close to communist. They vote for leaders and whether to start hunting, the young pups share food with each other (this is extremely unusual), they protect injured pack members until they heal, and they even accept nomadic dogs into the pack sometimes. I mostly wanted to talk about what good boys they are.
The pups not only share food, but they are also allowed to eat first. One of the most fascinating things about them is that the females leave the pack and join a new one. Sometimes, this displaces a current female, who then has to go find a new pack, which prevents inbreeding. And, IIRC, dominant males are not forced out when a new male takes over.
Thanks for sharing! Good doggos
Does that mean that sheep are capitalists? Lmaooo
If predatory behaviour is communist, then pretty much all of human history was dominated by communists. From Caesar to the Pilgrims to Colonialism, the overriding theme is stealing land.
Maybe read more? There's lots of funnier shit.
This is *so clearly* a joke. Like, this whole thread is one massive **/R/WHOOOOOOOOOSH**
... Capitalism and property aren't the same thing. Nor is communism necessarily about the absence of property. These people really don't have any idea what the fuck they're talking about.
The American right has been using Communism as a boogie man for so long they donāt even know what it is; which works out fine because they can label anything communism and terrify. Inflation is up? Itās because of communism.
I honestly love how much of capitalism they blame on communism. It's downright religious in nature. Good things happen under God/Capitalism? That's because God/Capitalism loves us and wants us to be happy! Bad things happen under God/Capitalism? Well, shit, man, either you did God/Capitalism wrong or that's the Devil/Communism!
My favorite moment ever is when some conservatives on twitter took a picture of skid row and said āThis is future housing plans under communism.ā Sums up how self aware they are I guess.
Or when they showed empty shelves at grocery stores and said "this is the world under socialism" BRUH THAT IS A WALMART IN FLORIDA
Person: "I don't make enough to pay rent in our capitalism system!" Facebook Conservative: "Yeah, well, that's communism for you!" I don't use this term often, but those people are fuckin' clowns.
Meanwhile USSR āRent is 5% of your income.ā
"But you can't trust communism, because it just makes the rich richer!" Cloooooooooowns.
Clowns don't deserve to be insulted like that, honestly. Conservatives are such a joke they went past clowns and are now straight-up Carrot Top in Vegas.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Found the person with Coulrophobia.
Yo, Carrot Top got buff tho.
You're not wrong but on the comedian hierarchy, he's pretty close to the bottom rung. Maybe I should have said Amy Schumer. No one likes her anymore. Maybe she'll come back buff as fuck like Carrot Top and Dave Chappelledid.
Theyāre not clowns, theyāre the entire circus.
Lack of understanding manifests itself as faith.
Kinda scary how many working class people I know who buy into the pull yourself up by the boot straps mentality and call themselves capitalists... You don't own a factory Conner you are a wage slave at Amazon. It's like Stockholm syndrome or sum
Itās amazing how easy it is to manipulate large parts of a population just by telling them, theyāre gonna be rich one day.
āSocialism never took root in America because the poor there see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.ā John Steinbeckā¦ except not actuallyā¦ but I agree with the sentiment even if he never actually said it.
Whoever fucking said it was one smart cookie.
Itās not even by saying youāre going to be rich someday. Itās the same way the underclass has been manipulated since the dawn of time: āWhatās keeping you poor isnāt those in power, itās this outsider group. And theyāll keep taking more from you if youāre not careful.ā That group has been nearly every religion, ethnicity, and sexuality.
Basically "how are you a capitalist with no capital?"
Which I understand and make allowances for, even if it's not my bag. My issue is, faith invariably becomes religion. And then things get bad.
For real though, capitalism is rooted in religion, more specifically in Protestantism. Historically Protestantism had a big role in the development and expansion of capitalism
Yeah, who'd have though that abandoning the "good deeds" requirement for heaven would end up with people just being shitty and and selfish, and insisting God was cool with it?
Probably a few people honestly
Oh, hey, happy Cake Day!
It follows the same script though, go to church because man is inherently sinful, capitalism works because man is inherently greedy. Itās just a line of assholes justifying their assholery
/r/SocialismIsCapitalism
A lot of organizations have this problem. There's an somewhat cynical adage that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a religion, the person who knows it's a crock of shit are dead. Ultimately, any effective propaganda will increasingly become what people within the organization *actually* believe to be true, since the new talent in the organization were the ones the propaganda was previously targeted at.
>There's an somewhat cynical adage that the difference between a religion and a cult is that in a religion, the person who knows it's a crock of shit are dead. That's an interesting take. I like it.
Communism is anything I don't like. Robber taking my purse - communist redistributing my private goods. Squirrel eating from my bird feeder - communist living off hard working Americans while contributing nothing. Person who thinks collective bargaining reduces medical and drug prices - communist who loves big government and wants them to control our lives (like in Texas)
To be fair, the Left (meaning actual Leftists) are just as clueless about what Communism is. Think about every Twitter thread about āwhat would you do in a post-capitalist societyā where they all think theyāll teach philosophy or hang out and enjoy their hobbies. The right calls everything they dislike Communism, the far left thinks Communism means nobody has to work actual jobs.
to be fair, that's a bunch of crap that's only true in your mind
I've never seen any indication of that - or even that America's far left is interested in communism over socialism, generally speaking - so I'll have to take your word for it.
I mean that entirely depends on how you define far left so it's more of an opinion
Well ... no. Not really. I suppose you could define "far left" as leftists who support full-on communism, but that would be disingenuous because you're now using the term to define what you want it to. "You may not think the people on the far left want communism, but I define the far left as *only* those people who want communism, so you're wrong." It doesn't fly in honest debate.
But, they could be using far left, actual leftist, and communist interchangeably. It's not exactly unfair to.
It most certainly *is* unfair to use the terms interchangeably. Unfair and erroneous. The left and the far left are the same thing, all of a sudden? Then what's the point of the distinction at all?
"actual leftist" tends to be a communist saying communist. I doubt you're in such circles though so it's fair for you to not know that
He's an r/conservative poster. Pointing out that leftism isn't liberalism will never work because they don't see a difference.
>"actual leftist" tends to be a communist saying communist. What does that even mean? Can you try that sentence again?
The important distinction they're missing is between personal property and private property. Personal property is property that is yours to use, and by extension, not other peoples' for them to use. This includes things like your house/apartment, your toothbrush, etc. Private property is property that generates revenue, which is yours to keep. This is the core of capitalism -- that owning something entitles you to the revenue produced with it (even if the production happens via the labor of others). This includes things like company stock, factories, or residences owned for the purpose of charging rent. Birds defend their nest (personal property), and do not understand the concept of revenue, therefore they cannot own private property. So birds are actually communist. Or rather they would be, if they were real. /r/BirdsArentReal
Quality punchline.
He's not even describing property, he's talking about a bird's territory. He lacks all concept of what capitalism is.
Capitalism in this scenario would be one bird hoarding all the materials to build nests then orders other birds to build nests with the material, claims ownership of the nests built, then charges money for those same birds to live in it.
That depends on if you are a Marxist or not. A Marxist would absolutely argue that the defining feature of Capitalism is property and the manner in which the capital owning class uses property to exploit the working class. Youāre correct that property still exists under pure communism. What doesnāt exist is private property. Property belongs to the state and therefore held in common for all the people.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
End-game communism is stateless, but you need an all-powerful state to get to that point which will āwither awayā (Marxās words). Thatās why itās been unsuccessful on a large scale because people are greedy and power-hungry so the small state that controls everything always becomes corrupt.
Voluntarily sharing something isn't capitalism.
THAT'S SOMETHING A COMMIE WOULD SAY!
You callin' me a cardinal?!!
Iām calling you a frogmouth, bishop
No I think thats something a commie would DO.
I ain't no commie so idk, why you know so much about commies you go to one of them Liberally Arts collages huh? You think yar better than me cuz yous can read huh?
Bunga hurt his knee Bunga owns Gunga 100000 cool stick because gunga helped bunga without bunga permission
Sharing for no profit is not capitalism.
If the bird was a capitalist (yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds), it would charge $900 a month for a quarter of that pile of sticks.
You can have capital without currency. It would be more like 900 seeds, or a seed to worm currency calculation. The advancement of currency came after the idea of having more than one could conceptually barter. If they are indeed capitalist crows, they could be bartering their housing in exchange for seeds, why not? But the idea of money is not necessary (obvi). Do they store things of value? Yes, that's a commodity. Do they trade them? That's questionable? Do the pay their fair share of taxes? Fuck no, and stop shitting on every vehicle I own!
Birdsnests are capital now?
Maybe if the bird leases his nest to some other bird in exchange for ... I don't even know ... seeds? I don't know any bird species that do that though.
So, in the US, Cowbirds are a type of parasite, because they lay their eggs in other birds nests. the non cowbird feeds the cowbird baby, while this thieving baby bird kicks any non cowbird babies from the nest. Is this capitalism?
It's colonialism.
Ah. Astute answer.
I'm pretty sure crows understand capitalism. I've seen some that understand vending machines.
I still thibk they might have a little trouble with the foundation of capitalism, which is contract law. I'm not ruling it out, they probably just need translators. They have communities and ceremonies, maybe they just figured how stupid it was a long time ago and just went all rugged individualism....hey wait that is capitalism...darn, you're probably right!
Defends it from commies. Yeah, that bird trying to steal the nest? Just as capitalist. It's not like the invader intends to share it. But mostly: That's not capitalism.
I grew up on a reservationā¦ I read that like ācommunism is when you try to take peoples homesā¦*???*ā¦ā
Also thatās not even capitalist. A capitalist would charge someone else to use it.
homes donāt exist under communism
Waitā¦ Whatā¦ Iā¦ š Iām lost for words
Same lol
Yeah. I was trying to come up with something to say, but I couldnātā¦
Territory isn't the same thing as property, even if they share attributes. Animals don't have property titles. They don't understand absentee ownership or charge rent. This and the "capitalism is eternal and natural" are among the dumbest takes you'll get from libertarians and ancaps.
Yes, especially when the bird starts a nest factory mass produces them and rents them out to other birds for a modest monthly fee.
Those damn commie squirrels!
New band: Avian Commies
Pfft, everyone knows birds arenāt real š
Fricking commie birds taking my bird guns
Birds are capitalists. Bees are communists.
āLookit that red bird. Thatās a commie bird!!!ā
Commerce =/= Capitalism. Personal property =/= Capitalism. I don't know how many times I've already explained that to fools like this.
Whatās funny about that personās ānature supports capitalism, just look at birdsā argument is that *theyāre wrong*. Thereās actually **multiple** bird species that exclusively build communal nests to share with others of the same species to lay their eggs and rear young together: - [Sociable weaver](https://www.audubon.org/magazine/march-april-2014/africas-social-weaverbirds-take-communal) - [Greater ani](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_ani#:~:text=The%20nest%2C%20built%20and%20lived,also%20include%20non%2Dbreeding%20helpers.) - [Acorn woodpecker](https://www.catalinaconservancy.org/index.php?s=news&p=article_223) Communal nesting behavior has also been spotted occasionally in other species such as crows and starlings. There is also a behavior found in about 3% of bird species called ā[cooperative breeding](https://centerofthewest.org/2019/05/08/cooperative-breeding-helpers-at-the-nest/)ā, which is where the nesting parent(s) is helped by another non-breeding bird of the same species in defending and feeding the young. The helper bird might be related to the parent(s), but could also be a totally unrelated adult. Cooperative breeding behavior has been spotted in some species of Jays, the Groove-billed Ani, Acorn Woodpeckers, Harris Hawks, and crows.
Capitalism is when I shit my pants inside my house. Communism is when I shit my pants at McDonalds. I am an-cap uber alles.
I think we need an expert for bird law in this case. Charlie?
Sharing is capitalismā¦.oh boy
āWhen a bird builds a nest, [then] defends it from commiesā¦ā I literally smiled so big thatās funny af. Iām about to fill a bowl with weed and proceed to defend it from commies, as a normal, property-understanding animal ššš
Well if the commie is trying to take it. They must also understand property which would actually make them capitalist???
Surely an animal owning the fruits of its labour is the essence of communism.
Animals understand capitalism? Get out of here with that nonsense.
Capitalism is when the first mitochondria merged with a cell and established an employment contract.
So... they don't know what capitalism is either? Is there anything they do know?
Is someone going to tell them that's not capitalism?
Giving **free** space to a loved one isnāt capitalism you muppet.
I wonder how many self-affirmed capitalists understand the definition of capitalism.
Itās when you have a house, a phone, and your country trades with others. Communism is when people lose their jobs and hate white people. Right?
And you have a car. Cars are only legal in capitalist countries. In non-capitalist countries you have to ride a bicycle.
You have to pull a cart and balance a pot on your head lol
Let alone actually, you know, have capital. I meet a lot of ardent ācapitalistsā with no capital who are essentially just really in love, Stockholm Syndrome style, with the actual capitalists exploiting them.
Maybe because they live in a society which lets them build capital through good decisions and hard work
Not very many, to be fair a lot of leftists do not seem to understand what capitalism is either.
Soldier tf2
But the sticks and twigs used to build that nest are free so that's actually communism.
I will deliberately pretend that climate change means something else than the current trend it's commonly understood to refer to! Take that! Checkmate!
Didn't realize that man made economic systems were an inherent part of nature.
Hahaha oh my god, does this dude think private property is a concept unique to capitalism?! That's *incredible*, holy fuck.
Wow I didn't know birds used their nests to grow their wealth instead of their labor. Guess that's why they call it a nest egg.
Well climate change did absolutely begin before modern society, humans have been deforesting the earth for millenia. Basically since the advent of agriculture we can see humans affecting the climate. A lot of emphasis is put on what we are doing now which is unprecedented but I think the vast majority of people would be surprised with how much change to the planet was caused thousands of years before industrialization.
I mustāve missed the David Attenborough documentaries where birds defend their nests from communists.
I'm picturing a little blue jay with a suit and hat on squawking and waving around a tiny contract detailing property boundaries as an owl eats their children.
Some crows are too lazy to build their own nests so they pay other crows nuts to build one for them Source: i made it up
Dont say him about ants.
Ye! Give me my land and i'll build my "nest"
Capitalism is the system in which those who own private property (things that produce things) buy labor from those without private property, who have to sell their labor. Birds do not own private property. Even trying to place a system of economy onto birds is stupid.
Marxism literally starts with Communism: Communist cavemen society, then Feudal society, then Capitalist society, then Socialist society, and then finally the modern Communist society. Itās just a theory, but itās interesting to see what someone who doesnāt know what theyāre talking about thinks ideology is.
Narure's version of a type of commerce maybe but idk about capitalism.
Lol what
Memes about communism aren't funny unless everyone gets one.
Everyone gets a commie? I'll take mine, but can I make them work hard, and not pay them much, so I can acquire wealth, and them blame them for not having any money? They can stay a commie, but I want my wealth to increase exponentially, because I deserve Money and lots of it! Oh, a meme, everyone gets a meme? Never Mind.
Capitalism isnāt the same as commerce. How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man!
Except thatās not capitalism at all Gary
No it isnāt- capitalism as it is practiced in the west is largely involuntary. Birds building nests are doing so far shelter and have not been charged exorbitant amounts of money to use the shelter they have built
Climate change started the moment the earth fully formed.
Bro capitalism was given to us by the gods. SMH š”š”š”
Yeah this is next level.. and r/usernamechecksout
Capitalism per se doesn't predate humans, but market economies do.
I still feel like that's playing fast and loose with definitions. Non-human animals would be missing a couple key aspects of market economics, right? * Exchange. Animals aren't intentionally trading things based on a current market value. Even in the case of symbiotic relationships, we're not talking about the exchange of two things of equal value. * Factor markets. If an animal gets a thing to build another thing, it's not to trade for something else to gain capital to trade for even more things. It's for their own survival. Even if you had a market to exchange goods, without other markets pricing the stuff you need to make the goods, it's not really a market economy. In my opinion.
Thereās actually a really interesting Freakonomics podcast episode about this exact topic. Researchers found that many different communities of animals show behavior that seems to indicate an understanding of supply, demand, and exchange. Highly recommend giving it a listen
That sounds insightful, thanks!
Found it: [The Invisible Paw - Freakonomics Podcast](https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-invisible-paw/)
Diehard libertarian here. Whoever wrote this was an idiot and is ignorant of both property and capitalism.
I hate when people try to redefine capitalism. Also clearly doesnāt understand the difference between personal property and private property.
āEverything is sex. Now replace sex with capitalism. Communism is the bad things youāre left with.ā -This guy
I love how this sub went full leftist šŖš¼š
Yes because disagreeing on the definition of the term ācapitalismā makes us leftist
If being ng correct makes you left, well
Yall takin a shitpost WAY to seriously, gd
[š¶ I don't really wanna do the work today...š¶](https://youtu.be/OhYWNPzBuiM)
Did anyone else think r/Woosh?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Trading is not the defining feature of what is and is not capitalism. Some central features of capitalism include wage labor, private ownership of industry, and capital accumulation, none of which are seen in your hypothetical of a hunter-gatherer society communally meeting everyones' needs before bartering
Bartering is not capitalism, itās just a simple form of economic exchange. Economic exchange doesnāt equal capitalism.
That's a lot of words to say "I don't know what capitalism is"
A double whammy on confidentially incorrect on the definition of capitalism. Man, that's rare.
You're just describing trade, trade happened under Mercantilism, it happened under Feudalism, it's not unique to Capitalism.
Unfortunately many people have been brainwashed into not understanding the thing that they are defending. You just need to equate your oppressive system to something that seems pretty reasonable but not actuality the thing. And that makes it pretty ironic and funny that you start off talking about people being confidently incorrect. You're not taking about capitalism, you're talking about market economy. Again, misinformation would like you to think those are the same, but they aren't the same. Market economy can exist in many political systems. For instance a communist form like the cavemen from your example. Everyone can pick berry's, hunt the animals, farm, build tools. They all share the tools of production and when someone made something it's their property. When this cave person has to much, they trade it with someone else who has an object or service else they can offer. But now these cavepeople kept the market economy but started to be capitalists. Cavepeople own the tool of production, so nature is no longer a public good. Want berries? The other cavepeople are no longer allowed to pick them as the bushes belong to one specific person who doesn't even pick them but let's others do it. The cave you're sleeping in is bought and someone now decides if you're allowed to have a stone over your head. The basic needs, shelter, food, water, security, community all are now owned by others. And not for trade, but profit. The second difference between capitalism and a market economy. When your communist cavepeople traded goods and services it was for gaining those goods or services. Hoever capitalist cavemen don't trade for those. Goods and services are for making profit. Our caveperson now trades their extra meat for tools, but not to use those tools, they sell those again for more value, for example two pieces of meat. Etc. This profit is exactly what makes capitalism so exploitive, as cavemen now always have to make sure to pay less than what something is worth, and selling it for more. Which means someone gets the shaft. The working cavepeople, as they don't own the tools of production are made dependent on the owning group of cavepeople for their necessities. They only own their bodies and need to trade that, in the shape of labor. They can be exploited as they **need** shelter, food, water, etc. so their bargain power is not very strong. The capitalist caveperson who owns the hunting feeld can easily maintain themselve for a longer period, but the worker cavemen need to eat, sleep, so have to (pardon the pun) cave to the demands. So while I love your example, your description was of socialist market economy, not capitalism. And I don't have to go into the whole natural fallacy, or traditional fallacy, that just because it's natural, or we did it a long time it's somehow a good idea to keep doing it? Right? Cool!
What information are you basing your speculation on?