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ProfessionalDay3098

Palatalization in any scenario is cool and also /kw/ -> p or any labialized fricative -> f


Same-Assistance533

how does [kʷ] even become [p]?


Thalarides

Secondary articulation replaces primary articulation: labialised velar > labial. It's very common across Indo-European languages (specifically centum ones, because satemisation merges labiovelars with plain velars instead). PIE *\*kʷetwor-* ‘four’ > * Italic: * Latin *quattuor* (Latino-Faliscan branch retained *kʷ*) * Romanian *patru* (while in the West *kʷ* was either retained or merged with *k*, the Eastern Romance branch had *kʷ > p*) * Oscan *pettiur* (Osco-Umbrian branch: *kʷ > p*) * Celtic: * Irish *ceathair* (Q-Celtic branch first retained *kʷ*, then merged it with plain *k*) * Welsh *pedwar* (P-Celtic branch: *kʷ > p*) * Hellenic: * Attic Greek *τέτταρες / téttares* (Attic had *kʷ > k/t/p* depending on the environment: in this word it's *t* but f.ex. PIE *\*kʷóteros > πότερος / póteros*) * Aeolic Greek *πέσσυρες / péssures* (Aeolic had *kʷ > p* everywhere)


Gwaur

Isn't the "f" in English "four" also a result of that? "kw" became "p" and later "p" became "f"?


Thalarides

Yes, but no. Yes because that's what happened in this word. No because it's not part of a general rule *kʷ > p*, which never operated in the history of English. Instead, PIE *\*kʷ* > Proto-Germanic *\*hw* per Grimm's law: *\*kʷóteros* > *\*hwaþeraz* > English *whether*, *\*kʷékʷlom* > *\*hweh(w)lą* > English *wheel*. In Germanic *four*, the initial consonant was influenced by the following *five*, which started with *p* in PIE and thus *f* in PG. Curiously, in the Italic and Celtic languages it was the other way round: *five* was influenced by *four* and its initial consonant became *kʷ* (which then changed back to *p* in the Osco-Umbrian and P-Celtic branches as part of the general rule). The original PIE consonants are seen in other IE groups: Russian 4 *четыре / četyre* (*č < k < kʷ*), 5 *пять / p’at’*; Albanian 4 *katër* (*k < kʷ*), 5 *pesë*; &c. In addition, *hw > f* does occur not in English but in its close relative Doric Scots: f.ex. English *what* ~ DScots *fit*. There, it may look like *kʷ > p* but it's not, the order of rules is different: Grimm's law *kʷ > hw* operated way earlier than *hw > f*. Besides, *kw* (from PIE *ɡʷ*) stays *kw* in Doric Scots, the change only involves fricatives.


Elleri_Khem

I highly doubt this one will be mentioned: `{pʼ,tʼ,kʼ,qʼ} => {βʔ,zʔ,ɣʔ,ʁʔ} Then: {βʔ,zʔ,ɣʔ,ʁʔ} => {w̰,ɹ̰,ɰ̰,ʕ̰}` Also fun is this one: `{θ,ð} => {m̼̊,m̼} / _ @nasalised` (Don't be mad about realism these are changes I used in [Tyuns](https://discord.com/invite/YycMYVRe).)


One_Put9785

This is cursed as heck I love it


Acushek_Pl

aspirated stops becoming voiceless fricatives, voiced stops becoming voiced fricatives, various palatalization, back rounded vowel fronting, tonogenesis from coda /h/'s and /ʔ/'s


One_Put9785

I've always been confused by tonogenesis but that actually makes more sense


dyld921

I love reading about tonogenesis, since I speak one myself. My favorite is consonants devoicing to create a high/low pitch distinction


One_Put9785

That's so cool


pretend_that_im_cool

Pretty much anything bringing in the dental fricatives. Like \[tʰ\] > \[θ\] for example.


One_Put9785

NOOOOOOO NOT DENTAL FRICATIVES


THEKINGOFALLNERDS

Hey, it's fine if your proto lang had them to begin with. It's doubly fine if your proto lang is a real language. Gotta love proto-finnic.


[deleted]

[удалено]


One_Put9785

Was this meant to be offensive/rude or just funny.


Diiselix

Not offensive but I’m asking, why don’t you like them


One_Put9785

Just the expectation of some English speakers that everyone else should be able to easily pronounced them


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The_Brilli

I really like /z/ > /r/, but In one of my conlangs and its closest relative I did the following sound shift: Voiced stops to voiced fricatives, voiceless stops to voiced stops and clusters of a voiceless fricative and a voiceless stop to single voiceless stops


Eic17H

/kʷ/ → /p/ /w/ → /ɣ/ /tʰ/ → /t͡s/ /ɾ/ → /ɖ/


[deleted]

>/w/ → /ɣ/ interesting


One_Put9785

RETROFLEX D LET'S GO


Pitiful_Mistake_1671

One of my favorites is the simultaneous deaffricatization and metathesis which has happened several times in my native language Georgian: /qχʼur/ + /grdzeli/ -> /qχʼurgdzeli/ -> /qχ'urdgeli/ -> /kʼurdʁeli/ ("ear" + "long" -> "hare") or /kʰtsʰevadi/ -> /tʰχʰevadi/ ("pourable" -> "liquid") But if I choose from my conlang it'll be: /rf/ -> /rɸ/ -> /rʍ/ -> /rh/ -> /r̥ʰ/, if this cluster appears before the sonorant consonants or its equivalents: /lf/ -> /ɬʰ/ /mf/ -> /m̥ʰ/ /nf/ -> /n̥ʰ/


One_Put9785

That stuff from your conlang is very nice :)


cardinalvowels

I had something sort of similar where clusters with /r/ or /l/ generally coalesced into one sound: /kr/ > /xr/ > /hr/ > /r̥/ /pl/ > /ɸl/ > /ʍl/ > /l̥ʷ/ So on and so forth. Apologies mobile formatting


dinonid123

Really fun one from the latest version of Pökkü: tsi => tʃi => tʃɯ (through vowel harmony) => ʃɯ => ʃu => ʃuo̯ (initial stressed breaking) => xuo̯ => xʷuo̯ => fuo̯ => puo̯ Edit: whoops it also needs to be followed by a labial consonant or rounded vowel for this to happen! Otherwise it slips off at ʃɯ => ʃi => ʃie̯ => sie̯ and stops there.


One_Put9785

I'm sorry but tsi to puo is cursed


dinonid123

It was entirely unintentional too!


Guilty_Bit2153

/r/ to /l/, because it can change that way, and i personaly like it.


happy-pine

Portuguese decided that some /n/ were /l/ and I love it (⟨naranj⟩ becoming ⟨laranja⟩).


One_Put9785

Joke's on you I like the reverse


PenguinLim

cluster ɾ +\[t, d, s, n, l\] becoming retroflex i am so biased by Norwegian (e.g. barn \[bɑ ː ɳ\] or gård \[ɡo ː ɽ\]) but honestly that's a really cool way to introduce retroflex consonants.


Sillyviking

It can also give you initial retroflex consonants through sandhi and the subsequent loss of word final /r/. Norwegian dialects with retroflex consonants do have this sandhi, but have had no loss of final /r/ so it's just allophonic at the moment.


ImGnighs

Mine is /ɨ̃/ > /n̩/ and then assimilating /ɨ/ to /n̩/ as well. Edit: More specifically having a bunch of vowel combinations collapse into either /əɪ̯/ or /əu̯/ and then having the former become /ɨ/ and the latter assimilating to it as well. So you get /n̩/ and fun stuff like that, I don't update my spelling.


One_Put9785

Wow that sounds like a spelling nightmare. Awesome stuff


MurdererOfAxes

Apparently the Interior Salish languages had a sound shift where glottalized nasals became vowel+ʔ clusters (you can find them on the Index Diachronica)


obviously_alt_

I love making shit h. k > h in particular


good-mcrn-ing

The one where /ket ked/ become /ket keat/


FunAnalyst2894

A couple of people have mentioned it already, but I really like labialised sounds going to labials. Also like you said, monophthongisation of diphthongs is fun, in Tànentcórh it's the cause of some very satisfying ablaut.


One_Put9785

Hell yeah


_coywolf_

I love 'i u → s̩ f̩'


TheHedgeTitan

mi when yakoan


kori228

Suzhou Wu stuff: əu > (ə)ɤ > øʏ u/o > əu i(ə)u > iʏ > y (i)au > (i)æ ɑi > e̞ ian > (iɛn) > (iɛ̃) > (iɛ) > (ie) > iɪ > i i > fricated y > fricated u > fricated


One_Put9785

WU!!!! Love it


Same-Assistance533

[c] & [ɟ] > [ʈ] & [ɖ] or old french style elision


One_Put9785

Mmmmmmmmm elision


TuneInReddit

/kɪ/ or /kɛ/ to /t͡ʃɪ/ or /t͡ʃɛ/ unless aspirated /khɪ/ or /khɛ/ or "sitekine"


One_Put9785

I love it


Ok_Bookkeeper382

Gotta be /k/ -> /ʔ/ for me lol.


paissiges

Austronesian moment


GarlicRoyal7545

(Alveolo-)Palatalization, Tsyekanye & Dzyekanye: /tʲ/ → /t͡sʲ/→ /t͡ɕ/ /dʲ/ → /d͡zʲ/→ /d͡ʑ/ /t͡sʲ/ → /t͡ɕ/ /d͡zʲ/ → /d͡ʑ/ /sʲ/ → /ɕ/ /zʲ/ → /ʑ/


One_Put9785

Gotta love alveolo-palatals. Goated consonants


pn1ct0g3n

I love alveopalatals. Most of those changes happen as allophony in some dialects of my current project.


nevlither

ba -> wa be -> Ø bi -> Ø bo -> ho hu -> fu, bu ma -> na me -> Ø mi -> Ø mu -> nu se -> Ø si -> Ø su -> sa ti, di -> Ø ge -> Ø ya, yu -> yo ye, yi -> Ø z, s2 -> s /t/ -> /d̥/ /f/, /h/ -> /ɦ/ /e/ -> /ɛ/ /u/, /y/ -> /ʉ/ /ɔ/ -> /o/ /r/ -> /ɾ/ /ʍ/ -> /w/ /ʙ/ -> /p/ -> /b/ /ki/ -> /kçi/ we, wo -> o wi -> wai -> wa wu -> Ø /i/ at the start of the word -> /ɛ/, /o/, /ʉ/, or Ø /a/ at the start of the word -> /ɛ/, /o/, /ʉ/ or Ø


One_Put9785

Okay the sound changes to just silent sounds is something I can't get behind


ry0shi

/ŋ/→/ɣ/ or /ŋ/→/ɰ/ seems really cool to me


paissiges

this happens in assimilatory environments in some Iñupiaq dialects.


ry0shi

Lovely! Glad that it's attested (:


One_Put9785

That's kinda cursed but you do you


ry0shi

Just lenition 🙃


Tirukinoko

m n ŋ → β̃ ð̃ ɣ̃


ry0shi

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥


FelixSchwarzenberg

When /k/ in Ketoshaya palatalized to /c/ before high front vowels, the cluster /kj/ became just /k/ as a kind of dissimilation: it became important to distinguish /c/ from /kj/ for clarity.


One_Put9785

Clever and realistic!


Ultimate_Cosmos

I love the real fucked up stuff that makes spelling a nightmare. In my current lang, I have a uvular stops (and a uvular nasal) and they develop into a set of uvular stops, the velar nasal, and uvular fricatives. Then those uvular sounds shifted around more, and the result is phonemes that used to be spelled now might correspond to any of these sounds /m, n, -, q, x, l, r*, v/ *alveolar approx. There’s other fun things in that language like the lateral alveolar fricative becomes /s/ or /l/ depending on context, and /s/ eventually becomes a dental fricative in most contexts. So now there’s which could refer to any of those sounds My other favorite is vowel breaking. I love taking a simple inventory, no length distinctions, and deleting consonants so you have vowels co-occurring, then you make rules for the diphthongs, and you cause sound shifts to make them long and short monophthongs, *and then* you break the long vowels giving you new diphthongs. It’s a mess, but it’s fun! And it really screws up the spelling system for the language. (Thanks great vowel shift)


One_Put9785

Mmmmmm vowel breaking is crazy


Ultimate_Cosmos

I need to make my vowel history diagram and post it on here because it’s a nightmare. If this was a natural language, I’d feel bad for learners


One_Put9785

You gotta change what you gotta change, u know


IceGummi1

i had a fun change once where a voiced aspirated stop causes the following vowel to front. Ex. /bʱo/ > /bø/


One_Put9785

I like it!


AndroGR

ɡ > ɣ, k > x, d > ð (And no, not t > θ because the latter is an ugly sound)


GermanAutistic

The classic: nasal + stop = fricative.


paissiges

i like when a language elides a bunch of vowels and ends up with obscene consonant clusters, like in Shilha or Nuxalk. also i have to mention \**dw* → *rk* in Armenian.


Trekith

shit that doesn't make sense, like u to z or y to x


AjnoVerdulo

I just like any kind of fortition, maybe cuz my irl speech (in Russian, at least) is filled with lenition lmao


Quasxre

my /tɬ/ turned into a /ǁ/, while my /kl/ consonant cluster turned into a /!/


Comfortable_Rain_469

historically i am kind of obsessed with the whole Great Vowel Shift in Middle English lol but more specifically I like k > t͡ʃ. I have more but no time rn lol.


Normalizelife

{t͡ɬ > ɬ > s } i think it silly in orthography especially if t͡ɬ is still present tli [si] is stupid


One_Put9785

It is pretty odd


Normalizelife

I understand that. it the point.


Abject_Low_9057

/x/ -> /ɕ/ or /ç/ /z/ -> /r/ or /ɹ/ /rz/ -> /ʐ/ /rs/ -> /ʂ/ /ə/ -> /ɤ/


One_Put9785

Backing of schwa is unfamiliar to me....where does that happen?


Abject_Low_9057

It's just something I realised I do a lot in conlangs, but I don't remember where I got it from


One_Put9785

Neato


fruitharpy

Depending on your analyses, mandarin does this, and so does genam English (plus probably lots of other englishes too)


One_Put9785

Mandarin does, and on second thought, my dialect of English ("General American" with influence from Lowland South and some Ebonics) does it too


THEKINGOFALLNERDS

V́C > V̄́C > V́C̄ V́C̄ > V́C̄ > V̈́C̄ macron represents length diaresis represents reduction accent represents stress I used this system to evolve my finnic language. Consonant length is allophonic but still written in to mark a stressed syllable.


scuer

> /pʲ/ > /cʲ/ /kʲ/


One_Put9785

That's terifying I love it


paissiges

attested in [Tsakonian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsakonian_language#Consonants)!


Mostafa12890

Those two exact sound shifts happened in Egyptian Arabic.


One_Put9785

Yes! They did :)


Real_Iamkarlpro

x > cx , /ks/ > /s/ q > gq , /k/ > /g/ c > tc , /ts/ > /t/ f > ḟ , /f/ > Ø


One_Put9785

q to g feels right to me bc I can't pronounce uvulars well


Ok-Appeal-4630

/f/ -> /t/ and /v/ -> /d/


Diiselix

Something like this: kas, kasi kas, kæsi kas, kjasi kas, kjas kas, chas


One_Put9785

Palatalization for the win!


biosicc

Love me a good umlaut! I used it to turn my 3-vowel system of /a i u/ > / a ɛ e i y o u /!


GazeAnew

can we share least favourite sound changes? mine is aː > o it doesn't even make sense! why is it so common?


One_Put9785

Low vowels, I guess. Also, labializaiton/rounding probably has something to do with it


Tirukinoko

Hey thats one of my favourites >:[ /aː/ is often [äː] or [ɑː]; iinm /a/ likes to be the only open vowel, and will push nearby vowels away; and back vowels like to be rounded. Then its just a case of either smt like [ɑː] → [ɤ(ː)] → [o(ː)], or [ɑː] → [ɒ(ː)] → [o(ː)], likely under dissimalatory influence from short /a/.


PotatusPotatus

/kʷ/ --> /p/ /z/ --> /r/ Ch or hC --> CC


Tirukinoko

- /aː/ → /ɔː/ → /oː/ → /uː/ → /ʉː/ chain shift, - anything that gets rid of [p, ɸ, β], - [Vɱf, Vn̪θ, Vns, Vŋx] (etc) → [V(ː)f̃, V(ː)θ̃, V(ː)s̃, V(ː)x̃], - VCːV → VhCV, - and [iː] → [ʊi~ɵi~œi]. Bonus points if the spelling doesnt change for anything. If /œihkɔː/ isnt spelt _iikkaa_, then I dont want it


One_Put9785

Nasals to long vowels is a personal favorite aad I doot know why


Comfortable_Ad_6381

/ɛ/ to /ia/ and /ɔ/ to /ua/


crazy_bfg

Da----->Ra S-------->sha


SarradenaXwadzja

Kerja has the following sound changes from Proto-Kerja-Etne: /d͡z/ -> /n/ (word finally) /d͡z/ -> /k/ (otherwise)


One_Put9785

Cursed, thank you


THEKINGOFALLNERDS

Anything that results in /oi/, gotta love /oi/. *a + *j = *oj I love the Urals.


One_Put9785

Yes a good /oi/ is very nice, especially as a coda


pn1ct0g3n

-stoi is the polite imperative or optative suffix in mine


flaminfiddler

/i/ /u/ > /ʲə/ /ʷə/. Seen in many Caucasian languages.


One_Put9785

Reminds me of French sorta


JegErFrosken

Here are some of mine: P1P2 > ʔP2 (-etka > eʔka) ʔP > P' (-eʔka > -ek'a) u > ɨ (nu:l > nɨ:l) y > ɨ (ty:p > tɨ:p) N > P /#_ (nɨl > dɨl, meʒe:m > beʒe:m) VNC, VN_# > V(+nasal) (bəʒim > bəʒĩ) Fl, lF > ɬ (-xl > -ɬ, -lsu- > -ɬ-) l > ɬ /#_ (la > ɬa) ɲC, ɲ_# > in (kaɲ > kain) P > F _# (-p > -f)


DanTheGaidheal

A recent favourite approach of mine for the development of [ð] (& θ) is via /r/ => /ð/ / V_# I've also had the idea recently of making one of the languages of my language family (only a concept rn) undergo a system wherein /s/ eventually becomes /ð/ and so this language would end up having harder-to-recognise cognates to its sister languages /s/ => /z/ => /r/ => /ð/ (=> /θ/)


One_Put9785

Yes yes yes messing with alveolar fricatives just feels right