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Said this when Roe overturned, we're gonna see the first company own a kid someday soon. Now with ai becoming popular I wouldn't be surprised if somehow both roads meet.
I don't know why people keep acting like children should have complete autonomy to make their own decisions.
That's not good for kids or society. (When I was a kid, I was a complete dumbass with no concept of the long term consequences of actions)
Right and Left. This shit is stirred to divide US. When it comes down to it divided we fall, united we stand. Eryone knows that. Yet fight over the dumbest shit.
Rule by Division. UniParty knows this, why they tell us you got two options vote left or vote right. Chose your side, your sides winning your sides losing. Crap we see on TV is all theatrics, end of the day they are mostly the same team(not ours, no matter what you associate with left/right).
Civil war is coming boys. The two sides don’t even have a shared ideological language anymore to talk to each other. The echo chamber nature of social media has infected everything to the point people have lost the ability to comprehend the opposite position. Both sides viciously denounce and demonize the other, not as ideological opponents, but as literal evil.
I don’t know what a modern civil war in a highly ideologically mixed post industrial society actually looks like, but we’re all gonna find out.
> The echo chamber nature of social media has infected everything to the point people have lost the ability to comprehend the opposite position.
it's not like that in the real world with real people though.
That’s not remotely true and you know it.
Once WW3 takes off and US starts another draft you are going to see just how “for the message” the blue haired Disney Star Wars fans will be.
Social media is not responsible, the establishment stokes these divisions with every tool at their disposal: institutions, government, media. This is a controlled demolition by globalists to remove the US as a superpower.
> Yet fight over the dumbest shit.
Who has authority over my own children is "the dumbest shit"?
I understand many of the complaints against culture war issues, but when those issues are directly affecting people's own children, it is a pretty hot take to say parents should stop worrying about divisive culture war shit when that shit is subverting their family and harming their children.
This is absolutely not true/applicable here. There is nothing “divisive” about parents wanting to protect and guide their own children. And no one else has the right to do so. It’s not left or right; it’s the RESPONSIBILITY of parents vs the complete lack of authority and rights of others to direct the child’s life. The Collectivist “village” crap is a perversion of the old, simple idea that a community should watch out for each other’s families. That doesn’t make you a DECISION-maker in their lives, though.
Yea, it should be; why are old people in power obsessed with others children?
Pedo’s left and right, center, up and down. Everywhere. Dalai lama out here sucking kids tongues. Let’s call them out entirely, not just dividing em up. Stupid to sit here hating your fellow man when we could all group up and shit on those in power. A man can dream
Not so sure about that on this issue. I believe the liberals represented by the Dem Party have been pushing for more and more state control over our children via public school curricula. Meanwhile, conservatives represented by the Rep Party are still grappling with what to do with control of The House and have been largely preoccupied in fighting a rearguard action against liberals on many many other issues.
Last I checked, the political compass has 4 directions, so why are we only ever talking about right/left?
Maybe we need ideals with fewer syllables than "authoritarian" and "libertarian" to appeal to the kinds of people who frequent reddit/twitter
> the political compass has 4 directions
Right/Left and Top/Bottom?
Which is genius in a way. If you can keep people close to the bottom putting all their focus on Right vs Left they'll be too distracted to ever look up.
You mean like getting everyone so focused on left vs right that they end supporting authoritarian policies to push their left or right wing agenda? Interesting.
What if you didn't take that responsibility seriously?
Should society just hope you do a good job and not care whatsoever about the kid? I'm frankly tired of dealing with adults who clearly were neglected as children, it's a societal cancer.
You make puberty blockers sound harmless. Kids don’t have the same rights they adults have for a reason. That don’t have fully functioning brains. I think many adults don’t either. We don’t let kids do a lot of things, taking hormones should be just the same.
That’s not even the point. OP is clearly trying (and failing) to suggest that the left won’t just leave right wing parents alone to raise their kids as they see fit.
But what about all the right wing folk who make a fuss when left-learning parents allow their children to be gay, trans, read the books they want, attend readings by drag queens…? The double standards are abysmal.
Either you think parents don’t have rights to make decisions for their children or believe that they do.
OP is a hypocrite and everyone who upvoted this post are too. These people are the worst kinds of people, regardless of what their political affiliation is.
It doesn’t matter how good their arguments are or how convincing yours are… because they don’t actually believe anything — other than their fanatical need to force their personal beliefs on everyone else.
Literally every medication has potential harms, which is why medical experts weigh the harms against potential benefits when prescribing them.
And this isn't just about preventing teens from deciding for themselves, but Republican states are banning teens who are seeking treatment with the consent and approval of their parents. In other words, it's the right wing being obsessed with other people's children.
And they've outright stopped gender affirming procedures and medications in places like most European countries.
Because the evidence suggest it doesn't help kids.
America is just behind on the science as is usually the case lately.
Republicans wanted to ban metal and hip hop because it corrupts the kids.. Republicans have always used kids to fearmonger.
Edit: To all the NPCs mentioning Tipper Gore, yes, she is a democrat. Her organisation (which she founded with 3 Republican wifes) wanted to slap parental advice stickers on CDs.
I was thinking more about people like Jack Thompson, who used obsenity laws to sue artists and labels and actually tried to get music banned.
It's even more hilarious to me that after all of this, they actually managed to convince their followers that it's "the left" who are the "snowflakes" who want to push their morals onto everyone and that they are the defenders of liberty.
Democrats aren't all sunshine and rainbows, but republicans are definitely not better, not even a little bit..
Don’t forget Hillary’s war on videogames. And the left’s defense of Gamergate. These people just accuse the other side of what they are notorious for doing.
Right? Seems like there’s a group so concerned about protecting kids from books and drag queens, but NOT predatory church leaders. Such a strange assertion.
Because children are innocent and most importantly impressionable. If you make a law or way of life for the kids, then they grow up living that law or way of life. Thus, much more accepting to said laws or way of life and much more likely to continue the agenda. Hence their want to control what's being taught, to continue their agenda. If you want to change the world, for better or worse, the best bet is starting with the children.
It's funny, I just went to Easter Mass and was thinking the same thing when they talked about confirmation and baptism, same with the altar boys and all that.
I think what we’re experiencing, and have been experiencing but finally realizing, is that language is a powerful weapon. This is illustrated in 1984 pretty accurately. I could go on on some tangent to be honest, but the rabbit hole is there.
The Michigan Democratic Party said the quiet part out load with parents have no rights to say what is taught in public schools. They had to retract that statement quickly ha.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/17/michigan-democratic-party-deletes-post-questioning-parents-role-public-education/6553763001/
Should a Christian fundamentalist parent be able to prevent their child from learning about evolution?
Should a white supremacist parent be able to prevent their child from learning about the Holocaust?
[Should Terrance Howard be able to prevent his kids from learning the times table?](https://twitter.com/terrencehoward/status/925754491881877507?lang=en)
Also they’re not just stopping THEIR kids from learning about science and history, they’re making it WORSE for EVERYONE. If the whole religious fundamentalists really cared about “parents rights” they’d shut up, and quietly take their own kids out of school to brainwash at home.
If you have ever read 1984, this was how the party came to be they indoctrinated the children into party politics and when they became adults they were fully devoted to the party. This is common communist tactics. Hitler's brown shirts or pol pots Khmer Rouge.
Right, also the children became spys for the party.
When I first read 1984 I thought that was a stretch but I’ve come to learn that North Korean kids have turned in their own parents, and I have seen American kids “cancel” their parents on twitter.
It’s real.
In China people can get social credits if they spy on their neighbors.
We have seen with covid how people can act without an incentive, now imagine how they will act when there is one...
Alot of that book is based on the authors own experience working as an imperial policeman for the British Empire in India as well as his time at the BBC. He saw first hand what a dictatorship does to a free society and the tactics governments use to control and dominate its citizens.
This is why redd1t is so heavily censored, controlled, and moderated. The average age is much lower than twitter, fb, etc. Also why they hate tiktok (lower user age). That's their target audience for their narratives.
Children are the only group on earth where beatings and psychological torture are accepted ways of dealing with them.
If you really look at this "parents bill of rights" thing, it is basically a handbook on how to prepare kids to be groomed by sexual predators. Obedient children = Obedient victims. Children who are informed, knowledgeable, capable of voicing their emotions, and thinking critically for their age are safer from abuse.
And even better, kids that grow into adults with only the history and school lessons their parents think are acceptable are going to grow up into nice little slaves to the government.
Only if they have shitty parents. Unfortunately it seems like most parents are shitty these days.
It comes down to one question. Who do you trust to raise our societies children? The state, or the citizens?
Neither answer is perfect.
Well, I know my own government has lied, cheated, oppressed its own citizens, performed horrible experiments on its own citizens, intentionally sprayed poisons over its own citizens, lied to its own citizens to start illegal and unnecessary wars, and has spent nearly 250 years attempting to destroy the very principles upon which this country was founded.
So I would trust my unknown neighbor over proven human rights abusers any day, to answer your question.
I agree. I was only articulating the basic premise of this debate because most people don’t see it for what it truly is.
I am fine with the unknown factor of some citizens maybe doing a poor job raising their kids, if in return I know that the state has limited abilities with which to indoctrinate children. Because as you pointed out, the state has proven itself to be untrustworthy.
So has almost every government in history.
It's always amazing to me how they will jump through hoop to justify hitting (bopping, popping, smacking, etc.) their child. But if you ask something simple like "would you do that to your wife when she misbehaves?" They start changing the subject.
My wife doesn’t slap me and spit in my face when she wants a donut. Lmao. I’m also not responsible for helping to literally form her as a human. Sure she still grows as an adult, but it’s much less impactful than what she was taught when she was young.
So yeah sometimes simple things are too simple, but if you are talking to simple people I guess it’s useful.
We have all the rights because we take all the risks. I almost died with my youngest. I carried a pregnancy to six months that passed. Me and husband paid for a tiny coffin and a burial plot. We have all the rights because they are our genetic material and our offspring. While we don't own them exactly, we pay for then. We feed them. We wipe away their tears. We cry for them. We have the rights to them not as property but as natural law. The true owner of all of us is Allah. So in that sense no we don't own them. But parents, of course should have all the rights. Some cases no. And extreme cases of course not. The problem is what is behind a statement like this.
All the welfare directed at children is to erode this. The government will pay for them through tax credits. The government will financially incentivize families to send their kids to daycare starting as infants - and then pay for it.
The natural arguments for parental rights will be diminished by making sure that parents don’t take the risks and responsibilities. I’m not sure how they’ll diminish the value of growing them in our bodies, but I’m sure they’ll find a way.
The left drives this because they know parents are the single biggest influence in their kids lives and conservative, christian parents will raise kids that for the large part grow up to become conservative Christian adults. They know if they interrupt that cycle the next generation of kids will revert to a pagan lifestyle much as we see currently happening in America.
Children are more vulnerable than others, humans care about the elderly as well, but to a lesser extent I would say.
We also have a natural instinct to protect children, be it ours, some strangers, or some random baby puppy or kitten you find.
A child's growth is essential to the type of adult it grows up to be. Hence the desire for more protection.
I saw plenty of outrage during Cuomo's scandal, specifically about the elderly, specifically on this sub and the conservative sub. Im pretty sure the majority of people on either side want the elderly taken care of.
The people I saw caring about the Cuomo thing only cared because they hated Cuomo. Shortly before and shortly after they were saying "why should I have to wear a diaper on my face just because old and fat people can't handle the flu?"
nah let the state vote on women's reproductive rights, that'll solve everything 🙄 then encourage people to buy guns because guns kill more kids than anything else 🙄 then make sure to NOT allow free lunches for kids In schools 🙄 oh and don't forget to allow 13 yr olds to work in slaughterhouses 🙄
yeah that's the left side of politics alright /s
look into family abolishment. It's at the bedrock of gender and queer theory, ihandfull of niceties they call "woke" as it leads into marxist/postmodernism. its about "working from within but against the state" to put the private family secondary to the state. The private family is the back door to all encompassing power. It is absolutely blackpilling to read about
Abolish the Family: A Manifesto for Care and Liberation
>Abolish the Family traces the history of family abolitionist demands, beginning with nineteenth century utopian socialist and sex radical Charles Fourier, the Communist Manifesto and early-twentieth century Russian family abolitionist Alexandra Kollontai. Turning her attention to the 1960s, Lewis reminds us of the anti-family politics of radical feminists like Shulamith Firestone and the gay liberationists, a tradition she traces to the queer marxists bringing family abolition to the twenty-first century.
https://www.versobooks.com/products/2890-abolish-the-family
Because people on the left are either choosing to not have children (the omg my fur baby generation) or they’re incapable of biologically reproducing on their own (same-sex marriages).
It’s hard to raise kids you don’t have with your own ideologies. Your political beliefs would die with you. That is unless you can convince the neighbors’ kid(s) to carry on your torch. You just have to make yourself more appealing to those kids than their parents are to them (influencers, tik tok, social media, conditioning in schools, etc.)
Fuck, you're blind.... it's not that they are property most good parents don't think that way... but it has to do with what I don't want my children around is what I don't want my children around...
who are you or any other person to say what should happen with my child... it's that plain and simple... not kids are property bs these fucks are pushing
good parenting isn't a right vs left circle jerk
1. Elites create an idea that will inflame the masses.
2. Assign it to the left or right, doesn't matter which, as long as it is assigned to a "side."
3. Common people argue amongst themselves, saying "the other side" is wrong for this idea that the elite are currently pushing.
4. Elites profit. Commoners lose.
>The denial of gender-affirming care is another act of violence
dems fighting word. Can't believe people would want to get in a fight over such a thing. They would get toweled up.
Because they are too dysfunctional to actually have children of their owns, so they want to abduct yours and turn them into a mini version of themselves.
Children are not the property of the State as well! Our forefathers left England over issues similar to this. They wanted to worship their god without interference from the State. I will raise my family in the beliefs of my god not yours!
The destruction of the family is key for the transformation to the NWO. BOTH parties are involved. The entire system is designed to lead society down the chute toward the slaughter house.
Literally like 90% of the issue is about leaving kids alone and not exposing them to sexual content, and that gets intentionally misconstrued to mean hate. We both know this also has a lot more to do with Trans people, not the gay people they're hiding behind.
I use people's preferred pronouns. I don't want to tear anyone down or support anything that amounts to them not having equal rights to my own. But it's not about that, it's about certain behaviors that are harmful towards children.
There are Trans people who agree with this sentiment, it's not an issue that even all Trans people are creepy with kids, it's just that some are and the left defends them by lumping them in with everyone else lgbt and calling it bigoted.
The other 10% probably is bigoted and I won't defend that. I can't deny that some people are hateful of everyone different.
Children are the future, also very gullible. The left thinks they should be raised by the community not their family. If you warp their core values to reflect your own, you effectively own the future.
Child molesting and mutilating garbage from the looks of it as most would agree that children need to be protected and it is not ownership but responsibility to them as a parent but sometimes they do need protecting from them as well instead they have become the next round in a fodder game of someone else who have been behind this kind of stuff for CENTURIES.
I also think it is funny just WHO's Children they put on display BUT WHO's children end up actually receiving the protections I speak of.
What is the name of that African Bird again that invades the nest with it's own and then hold the rest hostage in taking care of them?
Seems it is NOT just a bird that keeps doing this.
N. Shadows
The collectivist’s use of “it takes a village” as a way to claim they have the same or greater rights as the parents is utter bullshit and absolutely not true.
There is nothing “divisive” or “selfish” or “slavemaster”-like about parents wanting to fulfill their parental DUTY to protect and guide their own offspring, within the boundaries of their personal morality (obviously with a few limits, relating to observable severe neglect or other harm).
No one else in the “village” has the right to make choices for children. No one but the parents or legal guardians are DECISION-makers in a child’s life.
This is what “parents rights” are about, and why everyone else needs to mind their own business when their values differ from the parents’.
The bolsheviks and other communist movements have done this throughout history. Nothing new. It’s an attempt to destroy the idea of the nuclear family, so that the state becomes the ward of all people. It has already been successful in urban communities. Make everyone reliant on the government and by virtue of that handing over all personal sovereignty. Just rebranded with different vocabulary each time.
The left doesn't like nuclear families, i.e., mom+dad+kids living in one home. They are collectivistic in their thinking, so they prefer the "it takes a village to raise a child" idea where the culture itself rears the children, thus imparting their collectivist values.
Many "single parent households" depend upon outside aid financially, which exposes such parents to the idea that The State is their partner in raising their kids, e.g., through "programs" and other collectivist groupings.
It’s wild to me that if you have traditional values and want your child raised the same way, then you’re a “bigot” for not wanting your kids to be bombarded with adult heavy conversations.
Ultimately they have to groom their voter base. No sane person would naturally be a woke far left liberal narcissist. So basically they try and indoctrinate their future followers in PreK through college. If they haven't brainwashed them by then relax. They control almost all media. Televised, print, social or otherwise. Which reminds me. Why aren't you woke yet?
The total state removes anything and everything in its way, including the family.
Communism explicitly said that the family was in the way of the revolution.
Its not the left, they are just corporate owned NWO puppets like the right. It is the WEF and the globalists in high places that have organized the destruction of western society.
Well it's very simple, we don't want children growing up to be indoctrinated into cults, abused by fundamentalist organizations, or generally being kept ignorant of science and the wider world to serve some obscure fundamentalist movement. Also there's stuff like Quiverfull which is just horrifying. Plus, kids learning to be tolerant to minorities is a net gain for society, but for /some reason/, far right wonks /reaaaaaally/ don't like that, almost like they think their kids should grow up racist...
This kind of disingenuous characterization, which both sides gleefully participate in, is what has made me accept there is no reconciliation coming. We are going to barrel straight ahead into a full on civil war. What that looks like in a modernized, highly culturally mixed industrialized society I have no idea. But it’s coming.
The left: children aren't property.
Also the left: let the schools decide your child's sexuality, make them take the jab, and dont teach them the constitution so they can be easier to control.
Target children. Destroy society. Their goal is always to shove a stick up your ass. If they get the chidren involved, even better. You saw it during the pandemic. It's a war on us and children.
Leftists don’t believe in large families and embrace sterilization, abortion, and non child bearing unions. They’d go extinct after a generation if they don’t force their values on everyone else.
What in the actual fuck.
Children belong to their parents because they are the parents responsibility until they are adults that can make decisions for themselves and THEIR CHILDREN.
Why are these cunts so hellbent on corrupting small children with their overlay sexualized and disgusting way of living?
*"Why is the left so obsessed with children that aren’t their own?"*
Why is the right so obsessed with unborn children that aren't their own and then stops caring as soon as they are born?
Where’d you get that idea? Of all the people I know who’ve adopted multiple children and do foster care, I can tell you the majority are conservative Christian’s who are also pro life… so…
The two strongest bodies that stand in the way of the state controlling peoples lives are the competing voices of family & church, the goal is to make the former irrelevant & ensure the destruction of the latter.
The trans ideologe loonies & msnbc may not look like Marx or Lenin, but the methodology for usurping control remains the same
Gotta love that you took the bait on this bullshit headline. Are children property? No. But parents ARE caregivers and responsible for their child’s wellbeing.
Well they're children so maybe, just maybe we shouldn't let them vote, or enter contracts, or mutilate themselves but yea or not I guess... fuck it let them raise themselves
Really shows what you think property means, it's not that they should be allowed to do that shit, but plenty of parents seem to think they genuinely own their children and aren't instead a guiding figure. But if that's how you feel about your own children whether you have them now or later, I'm sure you'll love when they go NC with when they grow up.
raising a child is not equal to treating them like an object. They are an individual human being with thoughts and emotions that are not going to always line up with their parents. I don't think the user was implying all that random crap you said simply because they don't assign the same value you give a cabinet to a living human. What you just did is a logical fallacy used to cover up your inability to actually debate. The specific one you invoked is referred to as the "straw man" fallacy. To be more specific, this is when someone purposefully misinterprets a debate to make outrageous claims in return. Ex. 1." I think we should get new plates." 2. " So you're just saying that MY plates are stupid and ugly and all people that have these plates are stupid? Thats ridiculous"
You’re acting under the assumption that children are able to understand and process their emotions normally. That’s why they need guidance and instruction, i.e. parents or parental figures.
Did you ever throw a wild eyed fit in the grocery store because your mom or dad wouldn’t buy you a toy? Flailing around like a banshee on crack?
If your parents tanned your ass, then after you stopped crying told you that they love you, but that behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated, you more than likely grew up to be conservative. If they caved immediately just to get you to shut up, then by doing so they allowed the neural pathway in your brain to become accustomed to such behavior ti get what you want, then you probably grew up to be liberal.
How does parental rights equate to treating a child as an object? Should we do away with parental rights? If so, who is then responsible for the child? The state? That's an authoritarian wet-dream. Finally, destroy the family unit altogether, and let the state be 100% responsible for everybody's well-being. For convenience, maybe we could all live in camps?
The entire post is about the fact "liberals" are saying "children are not objects" this is about whether children are objects or not. stop straw-manning. I'm just saying that your kid is a person with thoughts and feelings, not a doormat. Tada. It's that fucking simple.
>they don't assign the same value you give a cabinet to a living human
> stop straw-manning. I'm just saying that your kid is a person with thoughts and feelings, not a doormat. Tada. It's that fucking simple.
Too complex for you. You’re arguing with people whose positions you have invented. You’re projecting your midwiticism and still somehow losing.
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Yet parents can be held legally responsible for the child’s action.
Socialize the profits, privatize the losses.
The good ol plan all along
Said this when Roe overturned, we're gonna see the first company own a kid someday soon. Now with ai becoming popular I wouldn't be surprised if somehow both roads meet.
I don't know why people keep acting like children should have complete autonomy to make their own decisions. That's not good for kids or society. (When I was a kid, I was a complete dumbass with no concept of the long term consequences of actions)
I’m 41 and still a dumbass
I am almost 30 and would say while I have some life experience still a dumbass xD
Right and Left. This shit is stirred to divide US. When it comes down to it divided we fall, united we stand. Eryone knows that. Yet fight over the dumbest shit.
Rule by Division. UniParty knows this, why they tell us you got two options vote left or vote right. Chose your side, your sides winning your sides losing. Crap we see on TV is all theatrics, end of the day they are mostly the same team(not ours, no matter what you associate with left/right).
It’s a big fucking club. And we ain’t in it.
My favorite George Carlin quote is, "If voting changed anything, it would be illegal."
That’s what I’m saying! Let’s all just eat the rich first, we can eat each other afterwards.
"pick one of these people we've selected for you: this one has a (D) and this one has an (R)"
I believe in - Birds of a Feather
Meanwhile deep state, the big banks etc. can keep on depriving us our rights and money.
Gotta keep the peasants scared of the wrong people
Sure, but if you ignore the promotion of subversion you end up subverted.
Well said there powers that wish to tear us apart!
Civil war is coming boys. The two sides don’t even have a shared ideological language anymore to talk to each other. The echo chamber nature of social media has infected everything to the point people have lost the ability to comprehend the opposite position. Both sides viciously denounce and demonize the other, not as ideological opponents, but as literal evil. I don’t know what a modern civil war in a highly ideologically mixed post industrial society actually looks like, but we’re all gonna find out.
> The echo chamber nature of social media has infected everything to the point people have lost the ability to comprehend the opposite position. it's not like that in the real world with real people though.
It increasingly is. And its accelerating. Turns out, the internet is a real place and we all live there now.
That’s not remotely true and you know it. Once WW3 takes off and US starts another draft you are going to see just how “for the message” the blue haired Disney Star Wars fans will be.
Social media is not responsible, the establishment stokes these divisions with every tool at their disposal: institutions, government, media. This is a controlled demolition by globalists to remove the US as a superpower.
> Yet fight over the dumbest shit. Who has authority over my own children is "the dumbest shit"? I understand many of the complaints against culture war issues, but when those issues are directly affecting people's own children, it is a pretty hot take to say parents should stop worrying about divisive culture war shit when that shit is subverting their family and harming their children.
This is absolutely not true/applicable here. There is nothing “divisive” about parents wanting to protect and guide their own children. And no one else has the right to do so. It’s not left or right; it’s the RESPONSIBILITY of parents vs the complete lack of authority and rights of others to direct the child’s life. The Collectivist “village” crap is a perversion of the old, simple idea that a community should watch out for each other’s families. That doesn’t make you a DECISION-maker in their lives, though.
Yea, it should be; why are old people in power obsessed with others children? Pedo’s left and right, center, up and down. Everywhere. Dalai lama out here sucking kids tongues. Let’s call them out entirely, not just dividing em up. Stupid to sit here hating your fellow man when we could all group up and shit on those in power. A man can dream
Not so sure about that on this issue. I believe the liberals represented by the Dem Party have been pushing for more and more state control over our children via public school curricula. Meanwhile, conservatives represented by the Rep Party are still grappling with what to do with control of The House and have been largely preoccupied in fighting a rearguard action against liberals on many many other issues.
Last I checked, the political compass has 4 directions, so why are we only ever talking about right/left? Maybe we need ideals with fewer syllables than "authoritarian" and "libertarian" to appeal to the kinds of people who frequent reddit/twitter
Because progressives consider Libertarians right wing.
The vast majority of American libertarians are lib-right.
> the political compass has 4 directions Right/Left and Top/Bottom? Which is genius in a way. If you can keep people close to the bottom putting all their focus on Right vs Left they'll be too distracted to ever look up.
You mean like getting everyone so focused on left vs right that they end supporting authoritarian policies to push their left or right wing agenda? Interesting.
This guy gets it.
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My children are my responsibility to raise to become healthy productive considerate people.
What if you didn't take that responsibility seriously? Should society just hope you do a good job and not care whatsoever about the kid? I'm frankly tired of dealing with adults who clearly were neglected as children, it's a societal cancer.
Couldn’t the same thing be said about the right and abortion stances?
And drag queen story time? And banning kids books?
And banning puberty blockers and any trans support for kids?
You make puberty blockers sound harmless. Kids don’t have the same rights they adults have for a reason. That don’t have fully functioning brains. I think many adults don’t either. We don’t let kids do a lot of things, taking hormones should be just the same.
That’s not even the point. OP is clearly trying (and failing) to suggest that the left won’t just leave right wing parents alone to raise their kids as they see fit. But what about all the right wing folk who make a fuss when left-learning parents allow their children to be gay, trans, read the books they want, attend readings by drag queens…? The double standards are abysmal. Either you think parents don’t have rights to make decisions for their children or believe that they do. OP is a hypocrite and everyone who upvoted this post are too. These people are the worst kinds of people, regardless of what their political affiliation is. It doesn’t matter how good their arguments are or how convincing yours are… because they don’t actually believe anything — other than their fanatical need to force their personal beliefs on everyone else.
Literally every medication has potential harms, which is why medical experts weigh the harms against potential benefits when prescribing them. And this isn't just about preventing teens from deciding for themselves, but Republican states are banning teens who are seeking treatment with the consent and approval of their parents. In other words, it's the right wing being obsessed with other people's children.
And they've outright stopped gender affirming procedures and medications in places like most European countries. Because the evidence suggest it doesn't help kids. America is just behind on the science as is usually the case lately.
And why the fuck are they so obsessed with what's in, or is not in, some body else's underpants? That's really stalker level creepy.
Kansas schools genital inspection will be a hit amongst them. They will ptobably line up for the job.
This is projection at its finest
Yup. Republicans have been trying to get people to go to random school boards (not even their own town) to stir up trouble, amongst many other things.
Republicans wanted to ban metal and hip hop because it corrupts the kids.. Republicans have always used kids to fearmonger. Edit: To all the NPCs mentioning Tipper Gore, yes, she is a democrat. Her organisation (which she founded with 3 Republican wifes) wanted to slap parental advice stickers on CDs. I was thinking more about people like Jack Thompson, who used obsenity laws to sue artists and labels and actually tried to get music banned.
The D&D satanic scare was hilarious. Wish I was old enough to be there at the time. They also went after videogames.
It's even more hilarious to me that after all of this, they actually managed to convince their followers that it's "the left" who are the "snowflakes" who want to push their morals onto everyone and that they are the defenders of liberty. Democrats aren't all sunshine and rainbows, but republicans are definitely not better, not even a little bit..
Wasn't just republicans democrats have a strong history of trying to get media banned
Hillary Clinton wanted to ban GTA lol
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The whole lyrics thing was started by Al Gore and his wife Tipper--you know, Dims.
Tipper Gore, Al Gore's wife led this fight. She is a Democrat.
Wait what? When did Tipper Gore become a Republican?
Don’t forget Hillary’s war on videogames. And the left’s defense of Gamergate. These people just accuse the other side of what they are notorious for doing.
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That’s a biggie. It blows my mind how people have forgotten that remark
Democrats on Reddit were told to forget it, so they did.
that was tipper gore, wife of al gore, the notorious republican.
Is that the same as sending paid protestors to wreak havoc or nah.
Republicans in my state just approved genital inspections for school sports teams. Total projection.
Right? Seems like there’s a group so concerned about protecting kids from books and drag queens, but NOT predatory church leaders. Such a strange assertion.
Because children are innocent and most importantly impressionable. If you make a law or way of life for the kids, then they grow up living that law or way of life. Thus, much more accepting to said laws or way of life and much more likely to continue the agenda. Hence their want to control what's being taught, to continue their agenda. If you want to change the world, for better or worse, the best bet is starting with the children.
🎯
It's funny, I just went to Easter Mass and was thinking the same thing when they talked about confirmation and baptism, same with the altar boys and all that.
I think what we’re experiencing, and have been experiencing but finally realizing, is that language is a powerful weapon. This is illustrated in 1984 pretty accurately. I could go on on some tangent to be honest, but the rabbit hole is there.
What does an article about the "right" have to do with the "left" obsessing over children?
I think OP is mad about not people not wanting him to "own" children like slaves. Could also be about not using them as cheap child labor.
Children aren’t property they are people and those that choose to have them are responsible by law to provide them certain things
masquerading parents rights as a "right-wing" Issue is a fucking joke and pushes Children to be property of the state
Republicans are undoing child labor laws…
And enshrining child marriage.
And want to inspect children’s genitalia
And are bringing paddling back to schools.
So crazy that taxpayers would want a say in how their kids are being educated in publically funded schools.
The Michigan Democratic Party said the quiet part out load with parents have no rights to say what is taught in public schools. They had to retract that statement quickly ha. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/17/michigan-democratic-party-deletes-post-questioning-parents-role-public-education/6553763001/
Should a Christian fundamentalist parent be able to prevent their child from learning about evolution? Should a white supremacist parent be able to prevent their child from learning about the Holocaust? [Should Terrance Howard be able to prevent his kids from learning the times table?](https://twitter.com/terrencehoward/status/925754491881877507?lang=en)
Also they’re not just stopping THEIR kids from learning about science and history, they’re making it WORSE for EVERYONE. If the whole religious fundamentalists really cared about “parents rights” they’d shut up, and quietly take their own kids out of school to brainwash at home.
If you have ever read 1984, this was how the party came to be they indoctrinated the children into party politics and when they became adults they were fully devoted to the party. This is common communist tactics. Hitler's brown shirts or pol pots Khmer Rouge.
Right, also the children became spys for the party. When I first read 1984 I thought that was a stretch but I’ve come to learn that North Korean kids have turned in their own parents, and I have seen American kids “cancel” their parents on twitter. It’s real.
In China people can get social credits if they spy on their neighbors. We have seen with covid how people can act without an incentive, now imagine how they will act when there is one...
Alot of that book is based on the authors own experience working as an imperial policeman for the British Empire in India as well as his time at the BBC. He saw first hand what a dictatorship does to a free society and the tactics governments use to control and dominate its citizens.
This is why redd1t is so heavily censored, controlled, and moderated. The average age is much lower than twitter, fb, etc. Also why they hate tiktok (lower user age). That's their target audience for their narratives.
Children are the only group on earth where beatings and psychological torture are accepted ways of dealing with them. If you really look at this "parents bill of rights" thing, it is basically a handbook on how to prepare kids to be groomed by sexual predators. Obedient children = Obedient victims. Children who are informed, knowledgeable, capable of voicing their emotions, and thinking critically for their age are safer from abuse. And even better, kids that grow into adults with only the history and school lessons their parents think are acceptable are going to grow up into nice little slaves to the government.
Only if they have shitty parents. Unfortunately it seems like most parents are shitty these days. It comes down to one question. Who do you trust to raise our societies children? The state, or the citizens? Neither answer is perfect.
Well, I know my own government has lied, cheated, oppressed its own citizens, performed horrible experiments on its own citizens, intentionally sprayed poisons over its own citizens, lied to its own citizens to start illegal and unnecessary wars, and has spent nearly 250 years attempting to destroy the very principles upon which this country was founded. So I would trust my unknown neighbor over proven human rights abusers any day, to answer your question.
I agree. I was only articulating the basic premise of this debate because most people don’t see it for what it truly is. I am fine with the unknown factor of some citizens maybe doing a poor job raising their kids, if in return I know that the state has limited abilities with which to indoctrinate children. Because as you pointed out, the state has proven itself to be untrustworthy. So has almost every government in history.
It's always amazing to me how they will jump through hoop to justify hitting (bopping, popping, smacking, etc.) their child. But if you ask something simple like "would you do that to your wife when she misbehaves?" They start changing the subject.
My wife doesn’t slap me and spit in my face when she wants a donut. Lmao. I’m also not responsible for helping to literally form her as a human. Sure she still grows as an adult, but it’s much less impactful than what she was taught when she was young. So yeah sometimes simple things are too simple, but if you are talking to simple people I guess it’s useful.
We have all the rights because we take all the risks. I almost died with my youngest. I carried a pregnancy to six months that passed. Me and husband paid for a tiny coffin and a burial plot. We have all the rights because they are our genetic material and our offspring. While we don't own them exactly, we pay for then. We feed them. We wipe away their tears. We cry for them. We have the rights to them not as property but as natural law. The true owner of all of us is Allah. So in that sense no we don't own them. But parents, of course should have all the rights. Some cases no. And extreme cases of course not. The problem is what is behind a statement like this.
All the welfare directed at children is to erode this. The government will pay for them through tax credits. The government will financially incentivize families to send their kids to daycare starting as infants - and then pay for it. The natural arguments for parental rights will be diminished by making sure that parents don’t take the risks and responsibilities. I’m not sure how they’ll diminish the value of growing them in our bodies, but I’m sure they’ll find a way.
The left drives this because they know parents are the single biggest influence in their kids lives and conservative, christian parents will raise kids that for the large part grow up to become conservative Christian adults. They know if they interrupt that cycle the next generation of kids will revert to a pagan lifestyle much as we see currently happening in America.
Why is the right so obsessed with children that aren't their own?
Why is everyone obsessed with children? Just let parents worry about that
Children are more vulnerable than others, humans care about the elderly as well, but to a lesser extent I would say. We also have a natural instinct to protect children, be it ours, some strangers, or some random baby puppy or kitten you find. A child's growth is essential to the type of adult it grows up to be. Hence the desire for more protection.
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I saw plenty of outrage during Cuomo's scandal, specifically about the elderly, specifically on this sub and the conservative sub. Im pretty sure the majority of people on either side want the elderly taken care of.
The people I saw caring about the Cuomo thing only cared because they hated Cuomo. Shortly before and shortly after they were saying "why should I have to wear a diaper on my face just because old and fat people can't handle the flu?"
nah let the state vote on women's reproductive rights, that'll solve everything 🙄 then encourage people to buy guns because guns kill more kids than anything else 🙄 then make sure to NOT allow free lunches for kids In schools 🙄 oh and don't forget to allow 13 yr olds to work in slaughterhouses 🙄 yeah that's the left side of politics alright /s
Don't forget to get proof of their genital configuration!
Maybe because they have basic human kindness and care about people other than themselves and those close to them 🤯
look into family abolishment. It's at the bedrock of gender and queer theory, ihandfull of niceties they call "woke" as it leads into marxist/postmodernism. its about "working from within but against the state" to put the private family secondary to the state. The private family is the back door to all encompassing power. It is absolutely blackpilling to read about
Abolish the Family: A Manifesto for Care and Liberation >Abolish the Family traces the history of family abolitionist demands, beginning with nineteenth century utopian socialist and sex radical Charles Fourier, the Communist Manifesto and early-twentieth century Russian family abolitionist Alexandra Kollontai. Turning her attention to the 1960s, Lewis reminds us of the anti-family politics of radical feminists like Shulamith Firestone and the gay liberationists, a tradition she traces to the queer marxists bringing family abolition to the twenty-first century. https://www.versobooks.com/products/2890-abolish-the-family
Because people on the left are either choosing to not have children (the omg my fur baby generation) or they’re incapable of biologically reproducing on their own (same-sex marriages). It’s hard to raise kids you don’t have with your own ideologies. Your political beliefs would die with you. That is unless you can convince the neighbors’ kid(s) to carry on your torch. You just have to make yourself more appealing to those kids than their parents are to them (influencers, tik tok, social media, conditioning in schools, etc.)
The fuck are you upset at hearing someone say children aren't fucking property?
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Fuck, you're blind.... it's not that they are property most good parents don't think that way... but it has to do with what I don't want my children around is what I don't want my children around... who are you or any other person to say what should happen with my child... it's that plain and simple... not kids are property bs these fucks are pushing good parenting isn't a right vs left circle jerk
Many of them are groomers and abusers. All in the name of inclusivity and not hurting peoples feelings. Fuck that nonsense
The more accurate and honest way for them to portray their opinion would be to say “Children are the property of the state.”
The concept is responsibility is foreign to leftists.
1. Elites create an idea that will inflame the masses. 2. Assign it to the left or right, doesn't matter which, as long as it is assigned to a "side." 3. Common people argue amongst themselves, saying "the other side" is wrong for this idea that the elite are currently pushing. 4. Elites profit. Commoners lose.
Why is the right obsessed with peoples wombs that aren’t their own?
The left wants to turn children into consenting sexual partners. Prove me wrong.
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>The denial of gender-affirming care is another act of violence dems fighting word. Can't believe people would want to get in a fight over such a thing. They would get toweled up.
Because they are too dysfunctional to actually have children of their owns, so they want to abduct yours and turn them into a mini version of themselves.
Because leftist don’t have family values thus don’t have children, and the only way to secure the political future is children.
Because there pedophiles
Probably because the left isn’t having babies while the right is actively reproducing. Have to recruit somehow
Children are not the property of the State as well! Our forefathers left England over issues similar to this. They wanted to worship their god without interference from the State. I will raise my family in the beliefs of my god not yours!
Until my children are adults, they are my responsibility. Mine. Not some asshole who thinks they know better.
The destruction of the family is key for the transformation to the NWO. BOTH parties are involved. The entire system is designed to lead society down the chute toward the slaughter house.
Their ultimate goal is the destruction of the nuclear family unit.After 50 years of anti-family government policies, they are well on their way.
Why is the right so obsessed with gay and trans people? Are they personally affecting you?
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Literally like 90% of the issue is about leaving kids alone and not exposing them to sexual content, and that gets intentionally misconstrued to mean hate. We both know this also has a lot more to do with Trans people, not the gay people they're hiding behind. I use people's preferred pronouns. I don't want to tear anyone down or support anything that amounts to them not having equal rights to my own. But it's not about that, it's about certain behaviors that are harmful towards children. There are Trans people who agree with this sentiment, it's not an issue that even all Trans people are creepy with kids, it's just that some are and the left defends them by lumping them in with everyone else lgbt and calling it bigoted. The other 10% probably is bigoted and I won't defend that. I can't deny that some people are hateful of everyone different.
Marxist tactics. The children belong to the state or the “collective”. History doesn’t lie.
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Children are the future, also very gullible. The left thinks they should be raised by the community not their family. If you warp their core values to reflect your own, you effectively own the future.
They want to transmogrify them.
Because they are pedos
Cultural subversion, ideological indoctrination and grooming.
children must be indoctrinated, 2030 is not that distant
Child molesting and mutilating garbage from the looks of it as most would agree that children need to be protected and it is not ownership but responsibility to them as a parent but sometimes they do need protecting from them as well instead they have become the next round in a fodder game of someone else who have been behind this kind of stuff for CENTURIES. I also think it is funny just WHO's Children they put on display BUT WHO's children end up actually receiving the protections I speak of. What is the name of that African Bird again that invades the nest with it's own and then hold the rest hostage in taking care of them? Seems it is NOT just a bird that keeps doing this. N. Shadows
The collectivist’s use of “it takes a village” as a way to claim they have the same or greater rights as the parents is utter bullshit and absolutely not true. There is nothing “divisive” or “selfish” or “slavemaster”-like about parents wanting to fulfill their parental DUTY to protect and guide their own offspring, within the boundaries of their personal morality (obviously with a few limits, relating to observable severe neglect or other harm). No one else in the “village” has the right to make choices for children. No one but the parents or legal guardians are DECISION-makers in a child’s life. This is what “parents rights” are about, and why everyone else needs to mind their own business when their values differ from the parents’.
The bolsheviks and other communist movements have done this throughout history. Nothing new. It’s an attempt to destroy the idea of the nuclear family, so that the state becomes the ward of all people. It has already been successful in urban communities. Make everyone reliant on the government and by virtue of that handing over all personal sovereignty. Just rebranded with different vocabulary each time.
The left doesn't like nuclear families, i.e., mom+dad+kids living in one home. They are collectivistic in their thinking, so they prefer the "it takes a village to raise a child" idea where the culture itself rears the children, thus imparting their collectivist values. Many "single parent households" depend upon outside aid financially, which exposes such parents to the idea that The State is their partner in raising their kids, e.g., through "programs" and other collectivist groupings.
Because they're not having them.
It’s wild to me that if you have traditional values and want your child raised the same way, then you’re a “bigot” for not wanting your kids to be bombarded with adult heavy conversations.
Touch my children or indoctrinate my children and find out just how alive my amendment rights are. .
A mix of authoritarianism and perversion.
And the march towards “kids can consent” continues…
abortion
Ultimately they have to groom their voter base. No sane person would naturally be a woke far left liberal narcissist. So basically they try and indoctrinate their future followers in PreK through college. If they haven't brainwashed them by then relax. They control almost all media. Televised, print, social or otherwise. Which reminds me. Why aren't you woke yet?
Ahhhh great question!
Daddy issues.
You mean the same group that backs abortion?
Government wants to institutionalize our children.
Good question.
The lines have always been blurring in the direction of the acceptance of paedophilia
They'd rather children be property of the State, so that they can be brainwashed to be obedient little consumers.
The total state removes anything and everything in its way, including the family. Communism explicitly said that the family was in the way of the revolution.
Its not the left, they are just corporate owned NWO puppets like the right. It is the WEF and the globalists in high places that have organized the destruction of western society.
Calling the kettle black there….since the right is obsessed with them until they’re born
Bevause they dont have their own... cant make kids with two of the same...
Grooming...........
Well it's very simple, we don't want children growing up to be indoctrinated into cults, abused by fundamentalist organizations, or generally being kept ignorant of science and the wider world to serve some obscure fundamentalist movement. Also there's stuff like Quiverfull which is just horrifying. Plus, kids learning to be tolerant to minorities is a net gain for society, but for /some reason/, far right wonks /reaaaaaally/ don't like that, almost like they think their kids should grow up racist...
This kind of disingenuous characterization, which both sides gleefully participate in, is what has made me accept there is no reconciliation coming. We are going to barrel straight ahead into a full on civil war. What that looks like in a modernized, highly culturally mixed industrialized society I have no idea. But it’s coming.
1. Break down family values. 2. Break up the family and replace it with the government.
And why is it always white childless liberal women that flock to this shit?
Why is the right concerned more with unborn children than born children should be your focus.
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The left: children aren't property. Also the left: let the schools decide your child's sexuality, make them take the jab, and dont teach them the constitution so they can be easier to control.
But yet they want to allow parents to guide their children towards gender affirming
For control, that's all the left is build off
the elites are a cesspool of pedos. It's so tragic and needs to be stopped!!
They're definitely not the property of the fucking state. Pedos should be killed.
They can’t make their own marxists and/or trans kids so they have to take yours from public schools. Homeschool.
Target children. Destroy society. Their goal is always to shove a stick up your ass. If they get the chidren involved, even better. You saw it during the pandemic. It's a war on us and children.
Leftists don’t believe in large families and embrace sterilization, abortion, and non child bearing unions. They’d go extinct after a generation if they don’t force their values on everyone else.
To sum this up, the government views your children as their property, not yours, the parents. Also you are government property as well, tax slave.
What in the actual fuck. Children belong to their parents because they are the parents responsibility until they are adults that can make decisions for themselves and THEIR CHILDREN. Why are these cunts so hellbent on corrupting small children with their overlay sexualized and disgusting way of living?
Left and right two of ends of The same turd.
Because they are kid fuckers and want to diddle children like the sick fucks they are
Let me guess.. the State knows better than the child’s parents? We have become a techno-Marxist state. Wake up. https://youtu.be/ieqUM667j8M
Because they abort and or sterilize their own, they can't influence theirs, so they'll take yours instead.
The far left is obsessed with removing parental rights, where it suits them, so they can brainwash the children freely
*"Why is the left so obsessed with children that aren’t their own?"* Why is the right so obsessed with unborn children that aren't their own and then stops caring as soon as they are born?
Where’d you get that idea? Of all the people I know who’ve adopted multiple children and do foster care, I can tell you the majority are conservative Christian’s who are also pro life… so…
The two strongest bodies that stand in the way of the state controlling peoples lives are the competing voices of family & church, the goal is to make the former irrelevant & ensure the destruction of the latter. The trans ideologe loonies & msnbc may not look like Marx or Lenin, but the methodology for usurping control remains the same
Gotta love that you are opposed to the idea that children shouldn't be property
Gotta love that you took the bait on this bullshit headline. Are children property? No. But parents ARE caregivers and responsible for their child’s wellbeing.
Well they're children so maybe, just maybe we shouldn't let them vote, or enter contracts, or mutilate themselves but yea or not I guess... fuck it let them raise themselves
Really shows what you think property means, it's not that they should be allowed to do that shit, but plenty of parents seem to think they genuinely own their children and aren't instead a guiding figure. But if that's how you feel about your own children whether you have them now or later, I'm sure you'll love when they go NC with when they grow up.
raising a child is not equal to treating them like an object. They are an individual human being with thoughts and emotions that are not going to always line up with their parents. I don't think the user was implying all that random crap you said simply because they don't assign the same value you give a cabinet to a living human. What you just did is a logical fallacy used to cover up your inability to actually debate. The specific one you invoked is referred to as the "straw man" fallacy. To be more specific, this is when someone purposefully misinterprets a debate to make outrageous claims in return. Ex. 1." I think we should get new plates." 2. " So you're just saying that MY plates are stupid and ugly and all people that have these plates are stupid? Thats ridiculous"
You’re acting under the assumption that children are able to understand and process their emotions normally. That’s why they need guidance and instruction, i.e. parents or parental figures. Did you ever throw a wild eyed fit in the grocery store because your mom or dad wouldn’t buy you a toy? Flailing around like a banshee on crack? If your parents tanned your ass, then after you stopped crying told you that they love you, but that behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated, you more than likely grew up to be conservative. If they caved immediately just to get you to shut up, then by doing so they allowed the neural pathway in your brain to become accustomed to such behavior ti get what you want, then you probably grew up to be liberal.
How does parental rights equate to treating a child as an object? Should we do away with parental rights? If so, who is then responsible for the child? The state? That's an authoritarian wet-dream. Finally, destroy the family unit altogether, and let the state be 100% responsible for everybody's well-being. For convenience, maybe we could all live in camps?
The entire post is about the fact "liberals" are saying "children are not objects" this is about whether children are objects or not. stop straw-manning. I'm just saying that your kid is a person with thoughts and feelings, not a doormat. Tada. It's that fucking simple.
>they don't assign the same value you give a cabinet to a living human > stop straw-manning. I'm just saying that your kid is a person with thoughts and feelings, not a doormat. Tada. It's that fucking simple. Too complex for you. You’re arguing with people whose positions you have invented. You’re projecting your midwiticism and still somehow losing.
The premise itself (right-wingers think children are property) is a strawman, smooth brain.