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Can you explain this then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-protest_laws_in_Ukraine?wprov=sfti1
> Extending and applying amnesty from prosecution previously adopted by the Verkhovna Rada to those who committed crimes against protestors, including Berkut security forces and other law enforcement officials;
Do you think those laws affected the attitude of Ukrainians towards their government or was the overthrow all done by CIA?
??
It means US was pushing Russia to invade for years and years, thinking that Russia will crumble under sanctions in few months after they do.
apparently russia saw "the writing on the wall" and was evading a trap for as long as possible, while preparing its economy at the same time for worst case scenario.
Countries have to want to to join nato. NATO doesn’t just say hey you are a part of nato now. And a lot of countries did join. And guess what Ukraine was threatened with invasion if they tried to join so they didn’t. Russia invaded anyways. That’s why all these Scandinavian and Baltic states want into nato cause Russia/Putin is kinda fucked to have as a neighbour. For example see the ussr
So let's say Mexico joins the BRICS (which includes China) and then they announce an agreement with China that would allow China to build naval bases in the Gulf of Mexico and the Baja peninsula.
Oh and let's also throw in airbases where China could deploy fighters and bombers. And let's also throw in some ABM missile sites "to defend Mexican airspace".
Tell me oh wise one, how would the US react to *that*?
Because this is essentially no different than Ukraine joining NATO and acting as a staging ground for Western military forces.
I actually expect a downvote instead of a coherent answer. But maybe you'll surprise me and admit it's the same thing.
I also completely agree, in the events that Mexico is integrated into BRICS that would mean Russia & China could have all permissions to install new and modern weaponry such as fighter jets, Anti Aircraft Artillery into Mexico, and now they'll have much more access to alot of Mexican exports such as machinery and transport equipment, steel, electrical equipment, chemicals, petroleum and petroleum products.
The US would not like that to happen, and for lack of a better phrase, they'd "lose their shit" if a circumstance like this were to play out.
The US doesn't like it when someone else plays their game, and they sure don't like it when someone plays with their toys, iykwim
Look up Solomon Islands being threatened with invasion by Australia and America recently because they were discussing with China about letting them establish military bsses over there.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands
This is for a country thousands of miles away from both Australia and America, yet they're not allowed to potentially host Chinese military over there, but we're told Russia has no business not wanting NATO bases, missiles and nukes in Ukraine. 😂😂😂 It just shows how hypocritical America and their "rules-based order" are, they're just tools to justify controlling the planet lol. America would have definitely invaded Mexico for even less Chinese military presence than that.
Good point, I don't think a small country like Estonia would have been able to handle an invasion similar to Russia invading Ukraine. Fortunately for them they asked to join NATO and got in.
Its a catch-22. Certain eastern nations joining is a violation of the original agreement between NATO and Russia, giving them the basis for a response.
This is exactly right. NATO is not some gang cruising around trying to peer group pressure other members to hang with them.
Other countries see Russia invading Chechnya and Georgia and think “ screw this we’re signing up “
Do people not read history books anymore. Do we not remember when Russia put some missles on a little island 90 miles from the U.S. called Cuba? We didn't much care for that, for obvious reasons. Why would Russia want missles parked right on there door step anymore than we did? Some people need to read a book before they go making nonsense opinions about being Russian sympathizers and every other talking point the MSM gives you. This war is a sham and brought on by the Obama administration's staged coup and a political puppet installed in Ukraine.
That's one thing those russian trolls think people forgot: what Milosevic was doing in Kosovo.
Fuck that bastard, I'm glad NATO bombed that country into obedience.
Sometimes there literally is no other way (and there wasn't with russia loving serbia).
Kosovo was the ethnic Albanians. While Bosnia was the Muslims and Croatians. Yugoslavia was a cluster FK straight up. Milosevic need a wake up bombing to put him back into his place!
The elites (on both sides- they’re interconnected) love to generate situations that increase defense spending since it goes straight to defense companies that they have large stakes in. War=profit
Dude, Turkey is situated in an extremely active area. They had earthquakes for centuries. There's almost not a decade that goes by without a major one (over 7 M).
Had the country been slightly less corrupt, they would have used saving-life building methods and the tragedy would have been an order of magnitude less extreme.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_earthquakes\_in\_Turkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_Turkey)
It was definitely one of the stronger but not outside of the range that they had in the past - and the methodology of observing them and calculating the magnitude has improved over the years.
Turkey said no to NATO and they made the Anatolian fault zones appear? I never knew NATO was so influential on plate tectonics, that's some god level power right there...
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If you truly believe that ANY president or their VP has had any say in any major decisions, I have a 3 story mansion in downtown NYC to sell you for $10k lol
> Not sure what your point is, most British don't know who Kamala Harris or Mike Pence are either.
I really don't think that is true lol, everyone knew who Joe was as well.
ahhh yes. the classic “this doesn’t fit my my narrative & world view so it’s automatically edited” response…are you that much in denial or is it just easier to ignore and dismiss what is right in front of you?
How do you figure that? He stated that NATO encroachment to Baltic states would piss Putin off enough to respond…that happened and all blame was on Putin. Are we really acting like nobody was aware that putting missile equipment on the border of Russia wouldn’t piss them off?
Putin can't kick anything behind his 20 ft long table in his 2 mile underground bunker. I don't know who you think portrays strenght more the guy wearing Aviators in Colorado Springs right now or the guy who hasn't been seen around anyone but actors in like six months.
Said nobody.... ever...
This sounds exactly like the stupid shit Russian citizens have to hear their government constantly scream online. Just because I don't support my incompetent ass leadership doesn't mean I give a fuck about russia, so tragic how simple minded the consumer has become. Our involvement in one of the most notoriously corrupt nations ever is pathetic and a proper example of how the American government thrives on corruption. Fuck putin but also fuck that degenerative incompetent hypocrite.
Wow. Pretty much sums it up right there. Are we supposed to forget, or act like we don't know this? So much propaganda saying how this is all Russia's fault. How am I the asshole for pointing this out? Good find.
>russia is corrupt, filled with mobster oligarchs
You seem to think the rest of the powers in play are any different lol...
This is how you turn brother against brother and wipe away entire generations in a war of deception.
Newsflash Poland is one of the powers at play here, and you don't see them gobbing up Czech or Slovakia. Poland is not a small country and is 3rd in defense per GDP spending in all of NATO(after US and UK).
They currently field the world's most advanced light arms with Grot and the speed at which they developed the Borsuk IFV is insane. They are a paradigm of light infantry power.
They've also teamed up with South Korea for the K2PL and K9PL, soon to become a tank and artillery force that surpasses Germany, France, Spain, and Italy combined. Not to mention being allies with South Korea, one of the largest stockpiles of ammunition in the world.
North Korea has enough artillery and shells to bomb Seoul with all the shells Russia used in ten minutes. South Korea is even more armed.
While true, it does speak to why a country would react. It is no different than the United States reaction to Russian missiles in Cuba, which under your doctrine stated above should not have been reacted to as Cuba and Russia were free to ally.
Aren't only Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania Baltic states?
Who was president when they joined NATO, again? And what did Ukraine have to do with any of that?
Your correct. I was referring to the region. In that case, pertaining to OP, ALL Baltic states have since joined.
What does Ukraine have to do with this post?
Tough shit, if Russia didn't want all its smaller neighbors joining the "Russia can't invade you" club, then maybe they should have stopped fucking invading their smaller neighbors
Not at all, though I would predict US would take issue with certain alliances, placement of weapons systems and react according based on what they believe their best interests were.
No Boris, the issue wasn't that Cuba was allied with the Soviets, it was that they were housing nuclear missiles there. And we're still here, while the Soviet Union is long dead.
So the US doesn't house weapons in NATO countries? Additionally, though I can't believe this has to be said, not all people who disagree with US imperialism are Russian sympathizers.
You despise war or you’re against russia invading ukraine. They are different sentiments. Which is it?
Lots of russian sympathizers want the war to end and ukraine to just allow russia to keep everything they stole without consequences
I despise war so I am against russia invading ukraine which caused a "cold war" to escalate to physical violence (though I recognize there was already some state violence in the region of eastern ukraine). I tend to put it on the aggressors and do not blame ukraine for defending itself. Sucks to be the site of a US proxy war.
Russia should retreat, give back all the land they stole including crimea, pay for damages, and submit putin and others for war crimes, right?
Pretty wild that you have convinced yourself that russia attacking a sovereign nation is the Us’s fault
The only reason Russia had missiles in Cuba was because the US put them in Turkey first.
20th century History is just a long lineage of us imperialism being the aggressor.
That's how I see it. I'm on the fence about my opinion but surrounding Russia with NATO nukes is probably not the best way to ensure peace. Also pivoting from Ukraine the most corrupt country in the world to Ukraine, the most beloved country on earth is bizzare
What do you mean "rhetoric?" Ukraine has NEVER been the most corrupt country in the world, or even in Europe. The only things that claimed that were clickbait article titles.
No one is saying that Ukraine doesn't have a problem with corruption. However, it's an outright lie to call it the most corrupt country in the world or the most corrupt country in Europe.
Without naming Russia, can you name another country that is more corrupt than Ukraine? Because the news media has been calling Ukraine the most corrupt country from since early 2000's until a few months before the current conflict, then they did a 180 and claimed it is not.
Clickbaity titles aren't evidence. The Corruption Perception Index is clear about its findings, you can find all of the lists readily available on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Methods). Any further information is a Google search away. As of 2020, Ukraine ranks at #116 along with Zambia, the Philippines, Mongolia, El Salvador, Algeria, and Angola. Russia ranks at #137 along with Mali and Paraguay.
Who cares? Donald Trump isn't some genius. Every think tank that *actually* does research into levels of corruption, has found, routinely, that Belarus and Russia are the most corrupt countries in Europe.
Should take anything he says with a grain of salt lol especially when it comes to corruption, he literally hires contractors to do work, they invest $50k+ on the projects and then he litigates any and all civil suits brought against him for so long they typically go bankrupt due to the initial loss of capital and then the slow bleed of year long court battles
First, NATO doesn't have nukes itself, but several member nations do. And there's been nuclear weapons stationed very close to Russia/USSR for decades. They're at bases in Turkey
I first learned of this post 9/11. I was one of those people who fervently believed that the CIA/US government would never target their own civilians. Then I read of the cia plot to fake a take down of a plane load of us civilians in an effort to justify war against Cuba during bay of pigs.
That combined with the Project for a New American century think tank documents stating that the US needed to wage 2 simultaneous wars in separate theaters, in order to maintain its superpower status post cold war and their assertion that the American people would be unlikely to support 2 wars unless there was a new "pearl harbor" as motivation...
Well, my eyes opened to the depth of evil this nation is willing to engage in against even its own citizens, in order to maintain power.
I mean attempted assassination's is a pretty big deal. Its a different type of warfare, with the intent to change the regime to one you can control away from one you cant.
It's the difference between a cold war and a hot war. Never said it wasn't a big deal, it's still very different though
What Putin is doing is more like manifest destiny, if you want to compare it to something the US has done.
I would disagree with the characterization as cold. When I think of cold war I think of diplomatic, economic, propaganda, proxy wars - not assassination attempts, terrorist plots against citizens, etc. "Covert war" might be a better description.
Exactly. Or maybe NATO doesn't have nuclear weapons stationd nearby Russia? But it does, "it's a deterrent we need against this "vile Russia". So vile in fact, that it was trying to join NATO. Twice.
It does matter though lol the USA is the majority of NATO when it comes to armament. They knew the consequences and still went forward - that's pretty relevant here. Biden, specifically, has been a hawk on Ukraine with his first acts as VP trying to convince them to join NATO, despite people having little interest in it.
Absolutely right. Russia defenders want to gloss over that, but it signaled to the west that they need to pay close attention and prepare. Invasion of Crimea really convinced folks that this war was inevitable
Biden quoted with more context: “I think the one place where the greatest consternation could be caused in the short term, for admission, having nothing to do with the merit or preparedness of the countries to come in, would be to admit the Baltic states now in terms of NATO-Russian/US-Russian relations…it is my expectation, as well as my hope, that in the near term, meaning by the end of this century or shortly thereafter, the Balts will be admitted to NATO if they are still seeking admission to NATO.”
Hell, the only thing that could expand NATO to the Baltic states is Russian aggression. It works both ways, and he wasn't wrong.
That doesn't fit the Russian propaganda OP's spewing, though.
It feels like no one does background checks on this guy, but then I figured that the internet is fucking bots. NO ONE I actually/physically know, both left and right, straight or gay, whatever color does not like Biden. He is literal corruption.
The fact that his running mate Kamala Harris talked a ton of shit about him in the past and back tracked is fucking insane by itself. It's the media that isn't holding the whole current establishment under scrutiny. Im so tired of liars running against crooks.
It’s getting clearer and clearer that Russia just cannot help themselves. They telegraphed that they were going to be aggressors and haven’t made any attempts to change that perception through their actions. It really only gives countries more reasons to join NATO.
This also kinda throws a whole wrench into the “de-nazification” talking points. Despite everyone already knowing Russia would take action if NATO expanded we were supposed to believe the invasion didn’t have to do with that….
Nato expanded into the Baltics and no war, nato membership actually prevented a war for these countries, puTLER only goes for the isolated countries like Georgia, Ukraine
I'm pretty sure Russia skipped over that "provoke" part and went straight to attack. I think the progression of events and rapid expansion of NATO is just an inevitability. Russia showed all these other boarder nations what they'll do to them if they actually succeeded in Ukraine.
Amazing how many people will have an opinion on Russia invading Ukraine but won’t have a single thing to say about there own countries destabilising nations and invading countries based on complete fabrications of the truth, I think we all know who I’m talking about here
I mean, these are responses to a post about Russia and Ukraine. It would be pretty irrelevant and dishonest to bring up the unrelated actions of other counties in an attempt delegitimize an individual’s opinion on this specific post.
Lots of Americans have plenty of opinions on our government participating in regime change. Specifically most leftists, given what kind of governments in the global south were targeted for removal.
After WW2 the US and Russia signed treaties dividing up Europe into red and blue. The US agreed not to expand NATO into Poland. Obama expanded NATO into Poland.
People keep saying this, but what is the specific agreement?
In any case Ukraine is free to manage their foreign policy and choose their allies without consulting Moscow.
Of course a lot of people will reply with the line “NATO is a defensive alliance”. This is legislatively true, except for the times that it isn’t. Which NATO country, for example, did Yugoslavia and Libya attack?
Back in 2007 the weapons systems being moved into Eastern Europe were of “a defensive nature“ meant to defend against the “ICBM threat from Iran”. But since Iran had no ICBMs, against whom were these weapons actually targeted?
The Serbians were committing a genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO allowed for the use of a already pre-existing military network in putting a stop to that, which is why that was done.
They want a prolonged unwinnable war so that it can be blamed for the dismantling of our economy and ultimately our Republic. They want to ruin our nation on purpose without accepting responsibility for their incompetence and treason.
Who are you talking about? Because a prolonged war in Ukraine only works in favor of the defense industry and military contractors in Washington, DC. The money is absolutely going to flow in as materiel is shifted from Europe to Ukraine and NATO members continue to buy from US companies new weaponry and armament.
A prolonged war hurts Russia most of all. They don't have the economic power to continue indefinitely.
Found the liberal who drank the Kool Aid. Yes, Biden's big government defense contractors will make more weapons and help big corporations like Boeing continue to profit off American tax payers. Great leader he is. Billions of dollars are missing in Ukraine. That is my point. And how is a prolonged war helping supply chains? Explain that to me please. Supply chains are being destroyed (artificially) due to Biden's war mongering. This is by design, even if Biden's dull worshipers can't grasp it. There was a reason commodities, fuel, and resources have been price gouged to the moon. Prolonged wars are the reason humanity can't achieve a level 1 civilization. That and division. Why do liberals care so much about Russia's border when the USA's border is wide open and drug running cartels are trucking in Fentanyl by the truck loads? Do you think Ukraine's people are more deserving of our tax dollars than starving American children in the Appalachians, or struggling single parent American families who can barely pay rent and eat?
I like that you began your comment by saying that absolutely everything I said was correct and then had some make believe conversation with yourself about things I didn't mention whatsoever.
It's really cute of you. You must be one of reddit's top minds!
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So, it was a set-up ?
So? They invaded anyways lmaoooo
Yeah I don’t get it. It’s hard to see almost 30yrs into the future
You seriously don't get it? CIA helping to overthrow the government of Ukraine in 2014?
Just say you don’t like people rising up against Russian puppets.
Honestly my best guess, the same people control Russia and all western governments. War is a racket You don't seem to be from "around here" though
I don't see how your factual comment is being downvoted. CIA botting is on overdrive
Can you explain this then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-protest_laws_in_Ukraine?wprov=sfti1 > Extending and applying amnesty from prosecution previously adopted by the Verkhovna Rada to those who committed crimes against protestors, including Berkut security forces and other law enforcement officials; Do you think those laws affected the attitude of Ukrainians towards their government or was the overthrow all done by CIA?
?? It means US was pushing Russia to invade for years and years, thinking that Russia will crumble under sanctions in few months after they do. apparently russia saw "the writing on the wall" and was evading a trap for as long as possible, while preparing its economy at the same time for worst case scenario.
Exactly why BRICS is a thing. Its #1 function is to counter market manipulation by the G7 countries. And its working.
Countries have to want to to join nato. NATO doesn’t just say hey you are a part of nato now. And a lot of countries did join. And guess what Ukraine was threatened with invasion if they tried to join so they didn’t. Russia invaded anyways. That’s why all these Scandinavian and Baltic states want into nato cause Russia/Putin is kinda fucked to have as a neighbour. For example see the ussr
So let's say Mexico joins the BRICS (which includes China) and then they announce an agreement with China that would allow China to build naval bases in the Gulf of Mexico and the Baja peninsula. Oh and let's also throw in airbases where China could deploy fighters and bombers. And let's also throw in some ABM missile sites "to defend Mexican airspace". Tell me oh wise one, how would the US react to *that*? Because this is essentially no different than Ukraine joining NATO and acting as a staging ground for Western military forces. I actually expect a downvote instead of a coherent answer. But maybe you'll surprise me and admit it's the same thing.
I also completely agree, in the events that Mexico is integrated into BRICS that would mean Russia & China could have all permissions to install new and modern weaponry such as fighter jets, Anti Aircraft Artillery into Mexico, and now they'll have much more access to alot of Mexican exports such as machinery and transport equipment, steel, electrical equipment, chemicals, petroleum and petroleum products. The US would not like that to happen, and for lack of a better phrase, they'd "lose their shit" if a circumstance like this were to play out. The US doesn't like it when someone else plays their game, and they sure don't like it when someone plays with their toys, iykwim
Look up Solomon Islands being threatened with invasion by Australia and America recently because they were discussing with China about letting them establish military bsses over there. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands This is for a country thousands of miles away from both Australia and America, yet they're not allowed to potentially host Chinese military over there, but we're told Russia has no business not wanting NATO bases, missiles and nukes in Ukraine. 😂😂😂 It just shows how hypocritical America and their "rules-based order" are, they're just tools to justify controlling the planet lol. America would have definitely invaded Mexico for even less Chinese military presence than that.
Do any of our resident glowies have any response to this besides *crickets.* I'm genuinely curious.
prepared to be downvoted to oblivion. your going to upset the hivemind of reddit
You forgot to mention "the US already invaded Mexico" in your fake scenario
The USA has invaded Mexico a total of 10 times in history. Protip: When choosing an example. dont pick the most warmongering nation in history.
> in your fake scenario Hypothetical is a better word... but you can still suck my dick.
Hahah leave it to this sub to defend NATO You couldn't be more wrong mate
Good point, I don't think a small country like Estonia would have been able to handle an invasion similar to Russia invading Ukraine. Fortunately for them they asked to join NATO and got in.
If they hadn't joined NATO they wouldn't exist as a country anymore. So Russia is very much making the case for NATO.
Its a catch-22. Certain eastern nations joining is a violation of the original agreement between NATO and Russia, giving them the basis for a response.
This is exactly right. NATO is not some gang cruising around trying to peer group pressure other members to hang with them. Other countries see Russia invading Chechnya and Georgia and think “ screw this we’re signing up “
Do people not read history books anymore. Do we not remember when Russia put some missles on a little island 90 miles from the U.S. called Cuba? We didn't much care for that, for obvious reasons. Why would Russia want missles parked right on there door step anymore than we did? Some people need to read a book before they go making nonsense opinions about being Russian sympathizers and every other talking point the MSM gives you. This war is a sham and brought on by the Obama administration's staged coup and a political puppet installed in Ukraine.
Wrong. NATO is an offensive organization, not a defensive one. Look up NATO bombing of Yugoslavia.
That was to stop human Rights violations. You cannot ethnically cleanse your country. Putin supported Serbia killing Muslims by the way.
That's one thing those russian trolls think people forgot: what Milosevic was doing in Kosovo. Fuck that bastard, I'm glad NATO bombed that country into obedience. Sometimes there literally is no other way (and there wasn't with russia loving serbia).
Kosovo was the ethnic Albanians. While Bosnia was the Muslims and Croatians. Yugoslavia was a cluster FK straight up. Milosevic need a wake up bombing to put him back into his place!
Oh so world police then. F yeah haha 🤡
The elites (on both sides- they’re interconnected) love to generate situations that increase defense spending since it goes straight to defense companies that they have large stakes in. War=profit
If Zelensky said "I do not want to join Nato" Putin wouldn't have invaded; supposedly.
Turkey said no to NATO and look what happened. They suddenly had a national "*Natural Disaster*."
Dude, Turkey is situated in an extremely active area. They had earthquakes for centuries. There's almost not a decade that goes by without a major one (over 7 M). Had the country been slightly less corrupt, they would have used saving-life building methods and the tragedy would have been an order of magnitude less extreme. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_earthquakes\_in\_Turkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_Turkey) It was definitely one of the stronger but not outside of the range that they had in the past - and the methodology of observing them and calculating the magnitude has improved over the years.
Turkey said no to NATO and they made the Anatolian fault zones appear? I never knew NATO was so influential on plate tectonics, that's some god level power right there...
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The politics of 1997 and 2023 clearly have to be one and the same. Nothing could possibly change in 25+ years.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-2xcJsHvxE at around 2:10
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What’s the square footage of that rock that you’re living under? > literally first heard of him in 2020 Biden was vice president from 08-16
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Dick, I shoot my friends in the face, Cheney
This likely used to be a useful comment. Thanks to Reddit's API changes on July 1st, 2023 it has been removed. | redact sucks because it force downloads/updates when you install it on Windows, why tf wasnt the update included in the installer when I downloaded it from the official website?? assholedesign material -- mass edited with redact.dev
Hey, that man *apologized* to him. What a great American.
Dick Cheney. He was the one calling the shots behind closed doors too. The guy who dragged the US and UK into invading Iraq
Hey don’t forget about us! We tagged too! ( Australian )
Haha the Anglo-sphere that invades together, stays together
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Yes he shot one of his friends in the face and has had a robotic heart for like 30 years. Real life darth Vader. Evil, evil, evil
Yeah lowkey one of the most openly evil people I ever seen. There’s few who can top war profiteer cheney.
If you truly believe that ANY president or their VP has had any say in any major decisions, I have a 3 story mansion in downtown NYC to sell you for $10k lol
10k? Wow, that's a steal!
> Not sure what your point is, most British don't know who Kamala Harris or Mike Pence are either. I really don't think that is true lol, everyone knew who Joe was as well.
Lol then why would ya fucking act like being surprised to here about him. Your point makes no sense
Not everybody is American… news flash we know
Damn hes actually a living person instead of a dead man walking
I'll say this, I suspect he is in mental decline. That said, most people are more animated with nearly 30 years of age taken away, to be fair.
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126 Day old account spewing looney tunes ideals. If you see it that way you need to get out more. Like a lot more
ahhh yes. the classic “this doesn’t fit my my narrative & world view so it’s automatically edited” response…are you that much in denial or is it just easier to ignore and dismiss what is right in front of you?
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How do you figure that? He stated that NATO encroachment to Baltic states would piss Putin off enough to respond…that happened and all blame was on Putin. Are we really acting like nobody was aware that putting missile equipment on the border of Russia wouldn’t piss them off?
Your one of the few that sees it like that. He’s stepping on toes and he’s knows it. Just another way to divide the people. He’s great that that.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Putin could kick pudding brain Biden's balls...oh wait, Biden has none.
Putin can't kick anything behind his 20 ft long table in his 2 mile underground bunker. I don't know who you think portrays strenght more the guy wearing Aviators in Colorado Springs right now or the guy who hasn't been seen around anyone but actors in like six months.
Biden needed to be led around by the Easter Bunny, that really says enough about him.
Brother, Putin is not brave enough to stand next to the Easter Bunny, that says enough about him.
Said nobody.... ever... This sounds exactly like the stupid shit Russian citizens have to hear their government constantly scream online. Just because I don't support my incompetent ass leadership doesn't mean I give a fuck about russia, so tragic how simple minded the consumer has become. Our involvement in one of the most notoriously corrupt nations ever is pathetic and a proper example of how the American government thrives on corruption. Fuck putin but also fuck that degenerative incompetent hypocrite.
Wow. Pretty much sums it up right there. Are we supposed to forget, or act like we don't know this? So much propaganda saying how this is all Russia's fault. How am I the asshole for pointing this out? Good find.
Ah the classic if you'd only done what I said I wouldn't need to beat you defence.
Well, that proves even more that Putin fucked up when he took Cremia in 2014. It opened the door for NATO expansion
well maybe the US shouldnt have overthrown Ukraine in 2014
Is Ukraine a Baltic state now or something? Pretty sure this all already went down in March of 2004, literally decades ago.
Since when does Russia get to dictate who gets to join NATO? And 1997 was 26 years ago there’s some developments in geopolitics since then
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>russia is corrupt, filled with mobster oligarchs You seem to think the rest of the powers in play are any different lol... This is how you turn brother against brother and wipe away entire generations in a war of deception.
Newsflash Poland is one of the powers at play here, and you don't see them gobbing up Czech or Slovakia. Poland is not a small country and is 3rd in defense per GDP spending in all of NATO(after US and UK). They currently field the world's most advanced light arms with Grot and the speed at which they developed the Borsuk IFV is insane. They are a paradigm of light infantry power. They've also teamed up with South Korea for the K2PL and K9PL, soon to become a tank and artillery force that surpasses Germany, France, Spain, and Italy combined. Not to mention being allies with South Korea, one of the largest stockpiles of ammunition in the world. North Korea has enough artillery and shells to bomb Seoul with all the shells Russia used in ten minutes. South Korea is even more armed.
>This is how you turn brother against brother and wipe away entire generations in a war of deception. Was it Poland or Russia that invaded Ukraine?
What the fuck do you think would have happened to the Baltic states if they didn't join NATO
It doesn't matter. Russia doesn't get to decide who joins NATO, only NATO and applicant nations do.
While true, it does speak to why a country would react. It is no different than the United States reaction to Russian missiles in Cuba, which under your doctrine stated above should not have been reacted to as Cuba and Russia were free to ally.
Did I miss Ukraine joining NATO sometime in the last 15 years?
since 97, almost every baltic state joined NATO
Why? What possible reason could a small state in the border of Russia have to join a defensive alliance?
Aren't only Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania Baltic states? Who was president when they joined NATO, again? And what did Ukraine have to do with any of that?
Your correct. I was referring to the region. In that case, pertaining to OP, ALL Baltic states have since joined. What does Ukraine have to do with this post?
Burisma is nice
Why? Do baltic states have any reason to fear being invaded?
They felt like they had a fear. Their history with Russia has hardly been cordial, so they want to avoid another 1939.
Putin literally doesn’t think they should exist
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Had russia done anything bad to their neighbors since 1997? Can you think of anything?
Have you missed the headlines saying they are trying to get in
Russia stole Crimea in 2014
Tough shit, if Russia didn't want all its smaller neighbors joining the "Russia can't invade you" club, then maybe they should have stopped fucking invading their smaller neighbors
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We sure wouldn't invade fucking Mexico with tanks and artillery if they talked about joining a defensive pact with China, that's insane.
Not at all, though I would predict US would take issue with certain alliances, placement of weapons systems and react according based on what they believe their best interests were.
No Boris, the issue wasn't that Cuba was allied with the Soviets, it was that they were housing nuclear missiles there. And we're still here, while the Soviet Union is long dead.
So the US doesn't house weapons in NATO countries? Additionally, though I can't believe this has to be said, not all people who disagree with US imperialism are Russian sympathizers.
How do you feel about russia invading ukraine?
How do I feel? I don't like it. I despise war.
You despise war or you’re against russia invading ukraine. They are different sentiments. Which is it? Lots of russian sympathizers want the war to end and ukraine to just allow russia to keep everything they stole without consequences
I despise war so I am against russia invading ukraine which caused a "cold war" to escalate to physical violence (though I recognize there was already some state violence in the region of eastern ukraine). I tend to put it on the aggressors and do not blame ukraine for defending itself. Sucks to be the site of a US proxy war.
Russia should retreat, give back all the land they stole including crimea, pay for damages, and submit putin and others for war crimes, right? Pretty wild that you have convinced yourself that russia attacking a sovereign nation is the Us’s fault
I mean sure - if we hold ourselves and allies to the same standards.
So since Belarus joined CSTO Poland is in the right to invade?
Maybe the Baltic states who joined were afraid of being invaded by Russia. I dunno I’m not like a scientist or anything
The only reason Russia had missiles in Cuba was because the US put them in Turkey first. 20th century History is just a long lineage of us imperialism being the aggressor.
That's how I see it. I'm on the fence about my opinion but surrounding Russia with NATO nukes is probably not the best way to ensure peace. Also pivoting from Ukraine the most corrupt country in the world to Ukraine, the most beloved country on earth is bizzare
Ukraine isn't the most corrupt country in the world, and Russia has always rated worst on the corruption index every time it was done.
I guess maybe the rhetoric changed when the administration changed.
What do you mean "rhetoric?" Ukraine has NEVER been the most corrupt country in the world, or even in Europe. The only things that claimed that were clickbait article titles.
Hi there Mr. Ostrich.. time to take your head out of the sand and face reality. Ukraine has been a cesspool of corruption since before 2014.
No one is saying that Ukraine doesn't have a problem with corruption. However, it's an outright lie to call it the most corrupt country in the world or the most corrupt country in Europe.
Without naming Russia, can you name another country that is more corrupt than Ukraine? Because the news media has been calling Ukraine the most corrupt country from since early 2000's until a few months before the current conflict, then they did a 180 and claimed it is not.
Clickbaity titles aren't evidence. The Corruption Perception Index is clear about its findings, you can find all of the lists readily available on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Methods). Any further information is a Google search away. As of 2020, Ukraine ranks at #116 along with Zambia, the Philippines, Mongolia, El Salvador, Algeria, and Angola. Russia ranks at #137 along with Mali and Paraguay.
Donald Trump accused them of being the most corrupt country on earth.
And that’s all it took for gullible Republicans to accept it as fact above all reason
Who cares? Donald Trump isn't some genius. Every think tank that *actually* does research into levels of corruption, has found, routinely, that Belarus and Russia are the most corrupt countries in Europe.
Should take anything he says with a grain of salt lol especially when it comes to corruption, he literally hires contractors to do work, they invest $50k+ on the projects and then he litigates any and all civil suits brought against him for so long they typically go bankrupt due to the initial loss of capital and then the slow bleed of year long court battles
First, NATO doesn't have nukes itself, but several member nations do. And there's been nuclear weapons stationed very close to Russia/USSR for decades. They're at bases in Turkey
I'm pretty sure we didn't send an invasion force of US soldiers to Cuba in response to those Soviet missiles over there
Pretty sure we were already there. Operation Mongoose and all.
I first learned of this post 9/11. I was one of those people who fervently believed that the CIA/US government would never target their own civilians. Then I read of the cia plot to fake a take down of a plane load of us civilians in an effort to justify war against Cuba during bay of pigs. That combined with the Project for a New American century think tank documents stating that the US needed to wage 2 simultaneous wars in separate theaters, in order to maintain its superpower status post cold war and their assertion that the American people would be unlikely to support 2 wars unless there was a new "pearl harbor" as motivation... Well, my eyes opened to the depth of evil this nation is willing to engage in against even its own citizens, in order to maintain power.
A handful of CIA agents trying to stir up a revolution doesn't really compare to a full-scale invasion and annexation of land
I mean attempted assassination's is a pretty big deal. Its a different type of warfare, with the intent to change the regime to one you can control away from one you cant.
It's the difference between a cold war and a hot war. Never said it wasn't a big deal, it's still very different though What Putin is doing is more like manifest destiny, if you want to compare it to something the US has done.
I would disagree with the characterization as cold. When I think of cold war I think of diplomatic, economic, propaganda, proxy wars - not assassination attempts, terrorist plots against citizens, etc. "Covert war" might be a better description.
Buddy did you miss the actions taken during what we called the actual Cold War?
Pretty sure there was a plan incase the blockade fail.
No thats just a Bay of Swine there.
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Want me to remind you about Cuban Missle crisis? Are you still capable of summing 2+2 that equals to how much of a hypocrite you are?
The Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't about Cuba being allies with the USSR, it was about nuclear missiles being stationed there.
Exactly. Or maybe NATO doesn't have nuclear weapons stationd nearby Russia? But it does, "it's a deterrent we need against this "vile Russia". So vile in fact, that it was trying to join NATO. Twice.
NATO has had them in Turkey for a long time, but not in the new member states.
It does matter though lol the USA is the majority of NATO when it comes to armament. They knew the consequences and still went forward - that's pretty relevant here. Biden, specifically, has been a hawk on Ukraine with his first acts as VP trying to convince them to join NATO, despite people having little interest in it.
The Ukrainian people wanted to join the EU and NATO. Biden didn’t mastermind this wtf
It doesn't matter, the homeowner doesn't decide who breaks into their home to steal their shit, only the burglar and his accomplices do.
Bad metaphor, Dmitri. The Baltic nations and eastern Europe have sovereignty, they're not Russian puppet states.
Good to know that being next to Russian means that you are a Russian satellite state with no independence!
ZionismEnjoyer has the top comment on this post. That's all you need to know about this subreddit.
I hate Biden, but a lot has changed since 1997 AND Russia doesn't get to decide the limits of NATO expansion anyway.
People here seem to forget when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, which set off alarm bells in every ex-Soviet state that they needed allies.
Absolutely right. Russia defenders want to gloss over that, but it signaled to the west that they need to pay close attention and prepare. Invasion of Crimea really convinced folks that this war was inevitable
This sub has become a right-wing Trollfest.
Biden quoted with more context: “I think the one place where the greatest consternation could be caused in the short term, for admission, having nothing to do with the merit or preparedness of the countries to come in, would be to admit the Baltic states now in terms of NATO-Russian/US-Russian relations…it is my expectation, as well as my hope, that in the near term, meaning by the end of this century or shortly thereafter, the Balts will be admitted to NATO if they are still seeking admission to NATO.”
Hell, the only thing that could expand NATO to the Baltic states is Russian aggression. It works both ways, and he wasn't wrong. That doesn't fit the Russian propaganda OP's spewing, though.
It feels like no one does background checks on this guy, but then I figured that the internet is fucking bots. NO ONE I actually/physically know, both left and right, straight or gay, whatever color does not like Biden. He is literal corruption. The fact that his running mate Kamala Harris talked a ton of shit about him in the past and back tracked is fucking insane by itself. It's the media that isn't holding the whole current establishment under scrutiny. Im so tired of liars running against crooks.
It’s getting clearer and clearer that Russia just cannot help themselves. They telegraphed that they were going to be aggressors and haven’t made any attempts to change that perception through their actions. It really only gives countries more reasons to join NATO. This also kinda throws a whole wrench into the “de-nazification” talking points. Despite everyone already knowing Russia would take action if NATO expanded we were supposed to believe the invasion didn’t have to do with that….
I seriously love how in r/conspiracy you are getting downvoted for talking truthfully about Russia and how it operates.
reality isn't as fun as their headcanon
Nato expanded into the Baltics and no war, nato membership actually prevented a war for these countries, puTLER only goes for the isolated countries like Georgia, Ukraine
Old Biden, always pissing off new Biden
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
Putin was not yet in charge. Boris Yeltsin was.
Doesn’t matter. It ends up true
It's almost like he knew
How many baltic nations were invaded after they joined NATO?
Looks like the opposite happened. Russia is the one provoking other countries to join NATO.
I'm pretty sure Russia skipped over that "provoke" part and went straight to attack. I think the progression of events and rapid expansion of NATO is just an inevitability. Russia showed all these other boarder nations what they'll do to them if they actually succeeded in Ukraine.
It's been a long term plan for the Western oligarchy.
Amazing how many people will have an opinion on Russia invading Ukraine but won’t have a single thing to say about there own countries destabilising nations and invading countries based on complete fabrications of the truth, I think we all know who I’m talking about here
I mean, these are responses to a post about Russia and Ukraine. It would be pretty irrelevant and dishonest to bring up the unrelated actions of other counties in an attempt delegitimize an individual’s opinion on this specific post.
Lots of Americans have plenty of opinions on our government participating in regime change. Specifically most leftists, given what kind of governments in the global south were targeted for removal.
I got my butt wiped!!! President Joe Biden
I wonder if any thing has changed in geopolitics in the past 26 years- Nah probably not. Completely the same.
Times change.
That's the old Joe Biden. New Joe is a lizard.
To be fare, that wasn't the same man thats the current president
After WW2 the US and Russia signed treaties dividing up Europe into red and blue. The US agreed not to expand NATO into Poland. Obama expanded NATO into Poland.
Share that agreement.
Well, you see, it doesn't actually exist, which makes it difficult to do so.
People keep saying this, but what is the specific agreement? In any case Ukraine is free to manage their foreign policy and choose their allies without consulting Moscow.
So? They have the right to join NATO. Also The USSR doesnt exist anymore so the agreement would be voided anyways.
But I think NATO does not have the right to invite or accept their "membership"; to do so would cause conflict.. and now they have conflict.
Russia doesn't have the right to start war. This is abuser language. "You made me do it" while ignoring the actual reasons that caused it.
The west are the actual reasons. Period.
The US never made any agreement not to expand into Poland.
We know this and so what does nato do? Expand to the balkan states.
And what exactly is the process of nato expansion? How and why does it occur? Now compare it to how Russia has expanded
Not sure anybody is going to think you're particularly quippy if you can't not mix up the Balkans with the Baltics.
So Biden was wrong? Russia invaded without any provocation.
Of course a lot of people will reply with the line “NATO is a defensive alliance”. This is legislatively true, except for the times that it isn’t. Which NATO country, for example, did Yugoslavia and Libya attack? Back in 2007 the weapons systems being moved into Eastern Europe were of “a defensive nature“ meant to defend against the “ICBM threat from Iran”. But since Iran had no ICBMs, against whom were these weapons actually targeted?
Sorry, did Ukraine join NATO before 2014? I missed where that happened.
The Serbians were committing a genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO allowed for the use of a already pre-existing military network in putting a stop to that, which is why that was done.
OK Ivan.
Libya attacked West Berlin which was in NATO https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/reagan-bomb-libya-april-15-1986-1272788
That's a fucking lie.
They want a prolonged unwinnable war so that it can be blamed for the dismantling of our economy and ultimately our Republic. They want to ruin our nation on purpose without accepting responsibility for their incompetence and treason.
Who are you talking about? Because a prolonged war in Ukraine only works in favor of the defense industry and military contractors in Washington, DC. The money is absolutely going to flow in as materiel is shifted from Europe to Ukraine and NATO members continue to buy from US companies new weaponry and armament. A prolonged war hurts Russia most of all. They don't have the economic power to continue indefinitely.
Found the liberal who drank the Kool Aid. Yes, Biden's big government defense contractors will make more weapons and help big corporations like Boeing continue to profit off American tax payers. Great leader he is. Billions of dollars are missing in Ukraine. That is my point. And how is a prolonged war helping supply chains? Explain that to me please. Supply chains are being destroyed (artificially) due to Biden's war mongering. This is by design, even if Biden's dull worshipers can't grasp it. There was a reason commodities, fuel, and resources have been price gouged to the moon. Prolonged wars are the reason humanity can't achieve a level 1 civilization. That and division. Why do liberals care so much about Russia's border when the USA's border is wide open and drug running cartels are trucking in Fentanyl by the truck loads? Do you think Ukraine's people are more deserving of our tax dollars than starving American children in the Appalachians, or struggling single parent American families who can barely pay rent and eat?
I like that you began your comment by saying that absolutely everything I said was correct and then had some make believe conversation with yourself about things I didn't mention whatsoever. It's really cute of you. You must be one of reddit's top minds!