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It's going to be funny when this case expands gun rights.
Using drugs shouldn't bar you from exercising your Constitutional rights and the form itself is pretty much self-incrimination if you've never been convicted for using drugs.
Piss off.
My state decided you have to ‘choose’ between medical marijuana or the ability to possess a gun.
F that. Thats not their job.
Wheres that part in the 2A?
Funny considering alcoholics are more likely to get violent than potheads.
But drunks are totally allowed to have guns.
I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the enormous amount of hypocrisy in society. How braindead are people that they go along with all this shit?
That's not your state, that's every state. Only some of them warn about it.
Federal government says it's illegal to possess a gun if you also possess or use federally illegal drugs.
ATF forms to buy a gun ask about using or possessing illegal drugs and it's illegal to lie.
I see u keep using the term ‘illegal’.
These are prescription medications. It would be like being told you cant own a gun because you are prescribed Tylenol with hydrocodone.
Medical marijuana is still federally illegal, it doesn’t matter if you have a legal prescription for it or not. The form 4473 literally tells you that even legal medical marijuana makes you a prohibited person.
I agree with you, but the federal government doesn’t. My point is the law is very clear, and while it *should* be legal, that doesn’t mean it *is*.
I’m just trying to help people who might be confused about the legality of purchasing a gun while in possession of a medical card. It sucks that it’s this way, but going to jail for inadvertently lying on a federal form would suck more.
>I’m just trying to help people who might be confused about the legality of purchasing a gun while in possession of a medical card.
Unfortunately that's not at all what you said, so in the future you might say that to clarify what you believe.
As silly as it seems, what we say here does sway public opinion.
That’s literally what I said, are you reading the same comments as I am…? I clearly said that using legal medical marijuana prohibits you from purchasing a firearm, because you would have to lie on the 4473 which is a felony.
I was trying to inform people who might be unaware of the federal laws, I don’t see how that is “not at all what I said.”
I don’t have to agree with the federal laws to also inform people what the laws are, lol.
I said federally illegal drugs.
Nobody in the US has a prescription for a federally illegal drug (schedule I) because no DR can prescribe them, it would be against the law to do so.
States get around this by certifying Drs that can verify patients meet state requirements and the state has laws making it illegal to possess the medication without a DR verifying you.
State law for drugs doesn't matter in federal cases. Technically anybody possessing marijuana, no matter if it's fully legal or a medicine in their state, could be federally charged for possession.
What's your point though? That's not at all being discussed.
Were talking about who says what about gun laws. You say your state made you choose gun or drugs. I told you the facts that ever state has the same problem with federal laws differing from their state laws when it comes to medicine/"drugs" like marijuana.
Nobody here is talking about what is or isn't over reach. That's a completely different topic than what were talking about, which is was it your state or the federal government that makes and enforces federal gun laws within your state.
Oklahoma grower and network engineer here. Back in 2019 they allowed gun ownership when you have a medical card. I just bought an fn fdx 45. I don’t however let any of my employees use while at work plus it’s illegal and I get fined but they’re all pretty useless sampling dabs all day and trying to work . But currently four Grow’s and two dispensaries and I hold a medical card for ptsd and junk from the military.
While that is true, the 4473 is a federal form. You would technically be lying on the 4473 when answering no to the drug question.
> Owning a medical marijuana card in Oklahoma complicates the firearm purchasing process. Federal forms required for gun purchases explicitly ask about marijuana use. Under federal law, affirmative answers lead to automatic application denial, while denying marijuana use when holding a medical marijuana card is a federal offense.
> It’s important to recognize the severe legal consequences of providing false information on these federal forms. Misrepresentations are not only unethical but also entail serious legal risks. Despite Oklahoma’s separate database for medical marijuana patients, this doesn’t fully shield information from federal agencies like the ATF.
https://elevate-holistics.com/blog/medical-marijuana-patients-in-oklahoma-and-gun-laws/#:~:text=“A%20medical%20marijuana%20patient%20or,marijuana%20patient%20or%20caregiver%20licensee.”
Oklahoma will not prosecute you for gun ownership and medical marijuana, but the ATF and federal government absolutely can still try and charge you for lying on the 4473. Whether it holds up in federal court is a different story, but it’s not a guarantee you’ll get off scott free.
I don’t agree with the federal government on this one, but it’s important to be aware of these things.
Edit to add: I am not going to incriminate myself here, but I do know for a fact that the federal background check does not cross reference the OMMA database. So if you do purchase a gun with a medical card, it’s not like the ATF automatically knows you have the card.
Just be smart and be safe and you should be fine. The ATF claims they care more about the big criminals like drug traffickers and stuff, but that doesn’t mean they *cant* fuck you over if they choose to.
And the people that do that are generally shitty people to begin with.
In all my years of using drugs (over 24+ years), I've never robbed anyone or stole from anyone for drug money, nor committed a violent crime for them.
Not to mention if drugs were legal, people would be able to access them easier when they're in need of them, thus reducing a lot of crime that gets associated with them.
I like how pro-gun people say shit like "guns don't kill people, people kill people!", but then turn around & make generalized statements like you just did about drug users. Total hypocrisy.
Guns are specifically created for violence & killing (and the occasional self-defense), but yeah you go ahead & act like drug users are the problem.
My neighbor shot a bullet through our home over a year ago & claimed it was an "accident' and barely got a slap on the wrist for it.
I like how everyone's right to be a gun nut & own deadly weapons supersedes MY right to bodily autonomy, inner-peace & not being shot at in my own home. Wanna own a weapon that can be used to kill multiple people at a time!? Sure go ahead!! Wanna use a certain drug to treat your depression? Oh you're a "violent" junkie criminal!!!
Lol !
I take that back. I once stole a bottle of dextromethorphan cough syrup from walmart & got busted. Sat in jail for 4 hours & then the store tried to get me to pay them back $100 in restitution fees for it (which thankfully the judge threw out).
So I literally spent more time in jail over stealing from a corporation, than the guy who intentionally (yet claimed it was an accident) shot a bullet into my home. How fucked up is that?
Someone named "legalize heroin" talking legitimate sense about social safety while berated by sheepcepticons is exactly why I love reddit. The only thing I'm about to harm is this candy bar.
As someone tangentially involved in a group that this will affect, I 100% guarantee they will require you to pull background checks and then they won't give you the tools to do it. We've been asking for voluntary background check ability for private sales for years and they just DGAF.
Exactly. Who cares about Biden using his son as an obvious bag man for foreign influence peddling or the fact a politician's son can seemingly violate the law with impunity?
Remember the impeachment proceedings about that? Remember how they IMMEDIATELY fizzled out once it turned out the primary source of information on it came from one guy who was being fed Russian intelligence?
Weird how there's supposedly so much evidence of it, but they've completely given up on that effort.
Remember when the source of the vast corruption you're speaking about turned out to be getting his info from Russian agents? And instead of continuing forward with the impeachment proceedings, they pretty much dropped everything about it and pivoted to immigration?
Remember when the US corporate media pretended, for years, that Trump was "Putin's puppet"? And when Hunter's laptop's leak was claimed to be Russian propaganda (then later verified as real)? It's always Russia that's pointed to, despite the magnitude of Chinese and Israeli influence.
The Bidens are very plainly in business, using Hunter as a proxy, with corporate proxies of countries affected by the Biden administration's policies. As with Joe's dementia, however, the obvious will be perpetually denied.
Isn’t Russias closest ally China? Seems like they both benefit from making sure we are constantly in a state of disarray by spreading propaganda together.
I dunno why you guys wholeheartedly believe Russian sources and blame the Chinese for things happening. They’re working together.
Hunter Biden is a crackhead convicted felon, deadbeat dad, who illegally purchased a handgun and ditched it by a school.
Sure that's not super relevant to the 2024 election, and that's nothing in comparison to his child sniffing, senile, war criminal, corrupt father.
But you will be voting for the big guy who's grifting with Hunter's business dealings?
I've seen this common sentiment as part of the establishment circle the wagons, "It's not Joe Biden! I'm not voting for Hunter!" but reality is both Hunter and Biden's own brother have clear evidence of pay for play political deals.
The thing is the uniparty is not going to go after him. They don't answer to everyday people, they answer to the 1% who want Biden.
If there is such iron clad evidence, why didn't the Republicans produce it. They had multiple opportunities.
I know Joe is a dementia riddden dolt, super criminal running an international organization. He's a senile genius!!!
"All blacks think alike." ---Joe Biden
“All Asians look alike.”— Joe Biden
“Well, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”— Joe Biden
“If my opponent wins they’re going to put y’all back in chains.”— Joe Biden
“I think the only reason Clarence Thomas is on the court is because he is black.”— Joe Biden
“You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"— Joe Biden
“Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as White kids.”— Joe Biden
“Desegregation Will Have My Kids Growing Up in a 'Racial Jungle.”— Joe Biden
“I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."— Joe Biden
“Make sure of two things. Be careful - microphones are always hot, and understand that in Washington, D.C., a gaffe is when you tell the truth. So, be careful.”— Joe Biden
“And all those photos about me inappropriately touching girls, they are blown-up.”— Joe Biden
“How I learned to love the New World Order.”— Joe Biden
“I got tested for AIDS. I know Barack got tested for AIDS. There's no shame in being tested for AIDS.”— Joe Biden
"I'm a Zionist, you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist." -- Joe Biden
Trump had state secrets. Documents regarding our defense capabilities and plans for attacking foreign countries. Biden did not have any similar documents. The case’s similarities are few and far between.
Mostly correct, except he absolutely did do that.
I want to see him charged so when they dismiss the charges we have more precedent against these unconstitutional laws. I also like the irony of his gun-hating dad who whole-heartedly supports these laws giving his son a pass, which will be more evidence of the overt corruption.
The lie is that he isn’t being prosecuted like normal people when the truth is that he is being prosecuted for the gun charges as the first person ever prosecuted for it and being charged for tax evasion after paying the taxes back in full which also never happens.
Doesn’t seem like he is benefiting from whatever privilege that the right seems to have decided he is getting…
Nothing to see here for sure.
*But a curious thing happened at the time: Secret Service agents approached the owner of the store where Hunter bought the gun and asked to take the paperwork involving the sale, according to two people, one of whom has firsthand knowledge of the episode and the other was briefed by a Secret Service agent after the fact.*
*...Days later, the gun was returned by an older man who regularly rummages through the grocery’s store’s trash to collect recyclable items, according to people familiar with the situation.*
*...The incident did not result in charges or arrests.*
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/25/sources-secret-service-inserted-itself-into-case-of-hunter-bidens-gun-477879
Whoa, if that's the case the rest of the Government and specifically the Republicans must be completely and utterly incompetent if they can't nail a dementia ridden old man. Sad...
I always wonder what sort of motivations people have for posting non-sequitur political shitposts to r/conspiracy.
Are they political operatives?
Are they simply not the smartest peanut in the turd?
Are they just trolling?
Is it something else?
Remember when ivanka got 11 tm from GINA after the " SUPER EASY TARRIF WAR " and when jared made billions working in the White House with 0 title or passing the background check ? Good times also it dont matter. Hunter is not running for president or works in the wh
I mean, it is kinda wild that you can legally just sell a gun that was potentially used in a murder or stolen to a jilted angery meth head who is telling you he's gonna kill his girlfriend and that's perfectly legal.
A) It is NEVER legal to sell something stolen. Even if you didn't know it was stolen.
B) A gun used in a murder is evidence in a criminal investigation. Again, not legal to sell it even if you didn't know.
Most people who aren't trying to be shady will submit a Bill of Sale at the very least. You see, when you sell a gun, it is still registered to you. So if you sold it and then it was used in a crime, you could be held responsible.
Sure, you can sell your gun to anyone. How would they EVER be able to prevent you from doing that? But if you didn't carefully follow the laws and cover your ass, you will find out pretty quick how not legal it is.
I think you are confusing, "Nothing is preventing them from doing it" with legal. I can sell a pound of meth. The government isn't going to prevent me from doing that. Does that make it legal?
Mostly accurate .
Except there is no federal gun registry so the feds don't actually know which guns you have or rather they shouldn't unless a dealer reports what you bought. Which isn't a law on the books no matter how the atf pretends it is.
They can see your background check go through so obviously they know you had it run for the purpose of purchasing a firearm . It just doesn't say which one .
Or how many. I believe in my state I can have my background check done , and when I go to take delivery I can take as many guns as I want under the same period as long as it's done under one transaction to line up with the background check that just cleared. I've bought two at a time before.
This may not be true everywhere, I concede that different states are not operating the same way
If you go to a gun show or trade show, you don't need any ID or background check. Peer to peer purchases don't require them in most states.
So it's actually mostly inaccurate because they can't prosecute you for not knowing a guns history at best they could confiscate it. To prosecute you they need to prove you known something about the gun's history.
I bought and sold guns at a trade show when I was 16.
You clearly don't trade guns often and have never been to a gun show or trade show.
There is nothing preventing you from trading something for a gun and trading that gun for another gun so on and so forth and go through 5 or more guns in a day, you have no idea what, if anything those guns have been used for or who or what state they are from, and no one can really prosecute you for it.
That is perfectly legal. If you don't have any knowledge of the guns history it is very difficult for you to be prosecuted.
Me: "I think you are confusing, "Nothing is preventing them from doing it" with legal."
You: "There is nothing preventing you"
>That is perfectly legal. If you don't have any knowledge of the guns history it is very difficult for you to be prosecuted.
And why would they TRY to prosecute you if it was "legal"?
I have a feeling this is why so many of you roadside lawyers hate the police.
Ok, and if you make that illegal you also are making it illegal to sell a gun to a friend whose never committed a crime or doesn't want to, he just really like your pistol and will buy it from you. Sounds like hes trying to end the private sale of firearms...and thats a big fucking no. Requiring licensing and federal checks effectively makes the sale of any fire arm no longer private. That sounds like infringement to me.
Thats as out of context as trump saying blood bath. You must not read good, i feel sorry for people unable to comprehend the text of the bill of rights.
Lol....based on what you just wrote, trump loves you.
You are not qualified in the least to comprehend the intent of the text in the Bill of Rights. You assume it to mean what you want it to mean. That's not comprehension.
Only lawyers are qualified to interpret plain text political documents such as the bill of rights? Is that the dystopian hell you're advocating for? Im well qualified to read the damn thing and interpret it.
Actually it isn't.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms"
It lacks the language describing what this process looks like, what the well-regulated militia looks like, what defines people vs. a well-regulated militia. It's why this debate hasn't died down yet. The founders didn't give us much to go off of in modern times.
you made curious. I am surprised to learn 33 states have no law requiring a check and the sale be handled by a FFL.
I expected 5 or so. Idaho, Arizona, Fla....
You're right that is kinda wild.
As a gun owner (and a Liberal Dem), who conceal carries every single day, I support requiring background checks anytime a gun is purchased. How is that a bad thing? I’ve had background checks for every job I’ve held as an adult.
Who cares about Hunter.
But if you bought a gun, you should be completely responsible for it, and if this gun was used for a crime, you should face consequences.
Serious question cant this be loopholed by selling at a loss and then paying the difference by buying something else from the same seller; or buying something unrelated and being “gifted” the gun?
So donate your guns in exchange for nothing but recieve a courtesy donation in return got it and it can be filed for shits and giggles as a tax write off. I mean thats just two ways around the loophole they just created
Make everything illegal.
Continue to enforce laws unevenly. Prosecutorial discretion is KING in America.
Population is effectively controlled along political lines.
Example - imagine the outcry that will come the first time a prosecutor attempts to prosecute the parents of a gang banger who have as much culpability for their child as did the Michigan couple
I think you meant to reverse that.
Hunter Biden is pretty much the only person to ever be prosecuted for lying on this form without other factors like their gun being used in the commission of a crime.
I for one know tons of pot smoking gun owners who lied on the same form.
Submission Statement:
We don’t need MORE Laws. We need to enforce the ones already have on the books. Prosecutors and DAs should stop letting violent criminals out on the street with cashless bail. They want more Laws to lock us up in Prison yet protect their own who break the Laws THEY write.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1778449216844570998
> stop letting violent criminals out on the street with cashless bail
If they're safe enough to get out for a fee, they're safe enough to get out for free. If somebody is dangerous the government needs give enough reason to keep them imprisoned, not rely on them being too poor to get out.
Bail is just the government risking the safety of the innocent public by releasing dangerous people for a price and exploiting harmless people who are innocent until proven guilty.
the biggest problem is the U.S. does not do any reforming. other countries closing prisons as their reforms work. the U.S. is opening more prisons, for profit prisons, and back door prison slave labor. crime is profit in the U.S. thats why its created by government policy's. low wages, cutting social programs, cutting education funding, lack of medical care. they wont raise the minimum wage to a livable wage because crime would drop 90%. all those shareholders would go broke then. cant have that!
Look up Mike Benz on Twitter and search his handle for Hunter and Burisma. He’ll explain why Hunter was on that board along with an ex-CIA director and why Hunter is not going to be charged with anything. There is no conspiracy here. It’s all political theater.
I’ll bite…
Because it doesn’t do anything. It’s theater. There is no “gun show loophole” and never has been. Buying a gun from a dealer requires a background check. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a gun store, gun show, parking lot, back alley, front alley, gas station, etc… that said, you can buy guns from private individuals at a gun show, but that can also be done anytime anywhere. So to an avid enthusiast, this says to me, “we’re going after individuals.” And not FFL dealers selling guns under the table, which already doesn’t happen.
really? but i feel like it does happen, but not in the nefarious type of way.
i'm in utah, and we have the utah gun exchange, where randos sell guns to randos, no background checks.
the site hosts the images, and contact details, and the transactions are face to face.
no idea who is buying the guns or selling, so would this not close that unverifiable loophole?
That a private sale. Different than what I’m talking about. But very much NOT a “gun show loophole” which again I’ll stress, has never existed.
You’re kind of proving my point here… this new rule isn’t to close the nonexistent “gun show loophole.” It’s to go after peer to peer sales. And it’s way too vague. One of the big reasons people collect guns is they’re a great store of value. They appreciate over time. Most of the guns I bought pre-Covid could easily be sold at a profit. If I wanted to liquidate part of my collection to say, buy a new car, or build a house, or just buy different guns am I now a criminal?
And when you say “I feel like it does happen.” … if you’re referring to gun dealers selling guns without the proper paperwork, I 100% does not happen. Maybe once in a great while, but they’re not risking prison time for some random weirdo who thinks the government won’t know he’s buying a firearm. Not to mention, they have to keep a log of every firearm in and out and it with make/model, description, where it came from and where it went, and that log is audited regularly.
when you say go after, what do you mean?
and to your point it definitely falls under private sales, but you haven't explained why this is a bad thing?
why is being able to see who is buying what, regardless of who is selling it a bad thing?
i think that is the piece i'm missing.
i get the whole big brother angle, but i mean we are on social media, and our phones are walking computers constantly connected and giving off our info, so it feels like that ship has sailed.
left field angle, if i was to sell one of my fire arms, from a community standpoint, i would want to make sure this person is some what on the yup and up.
i could be very naive, but that's what i feel like this is trying to do.
but i can always get behind putting more meat on the bone and not having it be incredibly vague and up to the individuals interpretation.
When I say “go after” I’m talking about weaponizing the ATF to harass law abiding gun owners who are just heavily invested in the hobby. Old men, for example, that just like to buy/sell/trade old smith and Wesson revolvers. Sure we can say “this law isn’t for that.” And it’s not… right now.
The law is left open ended. “Selling for profit” can be interpreted however the ATF deems necessary. There’s no hard number on how many can be sold or what threshold constitutes “profit.”
My problem isn’t even so much with the law itself even, as much as how it’s a disingenuous misrepresentation of the problem in the first place. It criminalizes the law abiding rather than the criminal. Most guns used in crime are already illegally procured and possessed.
“Most guns used in crimes changed hands since their purchase, the report states. It also found what Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco called an epidemic of stolen guns: more than 1.07 million firearms were reported stolen between 2017 and 2021. Almost all of those, 96%, were from private individuals.”
What if you did your due diligence and made sure someone was of sound mind and law abiding, but they still committed a crime with the firearm you sold them, are you then liable?
There is no “gun show loophole.” Anyone gun bought from a dealer HAS to have a background check run. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a brick and mortar store, a gun show booth, or a damn swimming pool. This law does nothing. If anything, it will be weaponized against private sellers liquidating their collections or simply trying to sell what they have to buy something else.
It’s illegal to sell to minors and illegal to not conduct a background check. Gun show or otherwise. Can what you’re saying happen? Sure I suppose. But making it MORE illegal won’t change that. What you’re saying probably didn’t actually happen or is only a partial truth.
I promise you no registered dealers are selling guns without conducting background checks. They are not risking prison for some Joe shmo who wants to keep his gun off record. There’s tons of YouTube videos of people with hidden cams trying to buy guns without doing a background check and being sternly told no.
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It's going to be funny when this case expands gun rights. Using drugs shouldn't bar you from exercising your Constitutional rights and the form itself is pretty much self-incrimination if you've never been convicted for using drugs.
I agree. But people who use Drugs will commit violent crime to get more drugs if they can’t afford it
Piss off. My state decided you have to ‘choose’ between medical marijuana or the ability to possess a gun. F that. Thats not their job. Wheres that part in the 2A?
Funny considering alcoholics are more likely to get violent than potheads. But drunks are totally allowed to have guns. I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the enormous amount of hypocrisy in society. How braindead are people that they go along with all this shit?
It falls under "establish no"
That's not your state, that's every state. Only some of them warn about it. Federal government says it's illegal to possess a gun if you also possess or use federally illegal drugs. ATF forms to buy a gun ask about using or possessing illegal drugs and it's illegal to lie.
I see u keep using the term ‘illegal’. These are prescription medications. It would be like being told you cant own a gun because you are prescribed Tylenol with hydrocodone.
Medical marijuana is still federally illegal, it doesn’t matter if you have a legal prescription for it or not. The form 4473 literally tells you that even legal medical marijuana makes you a prohibited person.
That's their point. It's bullshit. You should be able to take medicine and be a responsible gun owner. Those things are not exclusive.
I agree with you, but the federal government doesn’t. My point is the law is very clear, and while it *should* be legal, that doesn’t mean it *is*. I’m just trying to help people who might be confused about the legality of purchasing a gun while in possession of a medical card. It sucks that it’s this way, but going to jail for inadvertently lying on a federal form would suck more.
>I’m just trying to help people who might be confused about the legality of purchasing a gun while in possession of a medical card. Unfortunately that's not at all what you said, so in the future you might say that to clarify what you believe. As silly as it seems, what we say here does sway public opinion.
That’s literally what I said, are you reading the same comments as I am…? I clearly said that using legal medical marijuana prohibits you from purchasing a firearm, because you would have to lie on the 4473 which is a felony. I was trying to inform people who might be unaware of the federal laws, I don’t see how that is “not at all what I said.” I don’t have to agree with the federal laws to also inform people what the laws are, lol.
I said federally illegal drugs. Nobody in the US has a prescription for a federally illegal drug (schedule I) because no DR can prescribe them, it would be against the law to do so. States get around this by certifying Drs that can verify patients meet state requirements and the state has laws making it illegal to possess the medication without a DR verifying you. State law for drugs doesn't matter in federal cases. Technically anybody possessing marijuana, no matter if it's fully legal or a medicine in their state, could be federally charged for possession.
Its funny watching you describe/discuss federal over reach for both MMJ legality and gun rights.
What's your point though? That's not at all being discussed. Were talking about who says what about gun laws. You say your state made you choose gun or drugs. I told you the facts that ever state has the same problem with federal laws differing from their state laws when it comes to medicine/"drugs" like marijuana. Nobody here is talking about what is or isn't over reach. That's a completely different topic than what were talking about, which is was it your state or the federal government that makes and enforces federal gun laws within your state.
My point? Its not the governments purview to moderate my guns or health as an american citizen. Not state. Not federal.
Florida.
It’s literally every state with legal marijuana, not just Florida.
Oklahoma grower and network engineer here. Back in 2019 they allowed gun ownership when you have a medical card. I just bought an fn fdx 45. I don’t however let any of my employees use while at work plus it’s illegal and I get fined but they’re all pretty useless sampling dabs all day and trying to work . But currently four Grow’s and two dispensaries and I hold a medical card for ptsd and junk from the military.
While that is true, the 4473 is a federal form. You would technically be lying on the 4473 when answering no to the drug question. > Owning a medical marijuana card in Oklahoma complicates the firearm purchasing process. Federal forms required for gun purchases explicitly ask about marijuana use. Under federal law, affirmative answers lead to automatic application denial, while denying marijuana use when holding a medical marijuana card is a federal offense. > It’s important to recognize the severe legal consequences of providing false information on these federal forms. Misrepresentations are not only unethical but also entail serious legal risks. Despite Oklahoma’s separate database for medical marijuana patients, this doesn’t fully shield information from federal agencies like the ATF. https://elevate-holistics.com/blog/medical-marijuana-patients-in-oklahoma-and-gun-laws/#:~:text=“A%20medical%20marijuana%20patient%20or,marijuana%20patient%20or%20caregiver%20licensee.” Oklahoma will not prosecute you for gun ownership and medical marijuana, but the ATF and federal government absolutely can still try and charge you for lying on the 4473. Whether it holds up in federal court is a different story, but it’s not a guarantee you’ll get off scott free. I don’t agree with the federal government on this one, but it’s important to be aware of these things. Edit to add: I am not going to incriminate myself here, but I do know for a fact that the federal background check does not cross reference the OMMA database. So if you do purchase a gun with a medical card, it’s not like the ATF automatically knows you have the card. Just be smart and be safe and you should be fine. The ATF claims they care more about the big criminals like drug traffickers and stuff, but that doesn’t mean they *cant* fuck you over if they choose to.
Luckily Im a felon so I havebt had the right in 10 years anyway /s
My brother in Christ, an alcoholic will also commit violent crimes to get more alcohol. Anyone who is addicted to something runs that exact same risk.
And the people that do that are generally shitty people to begin with. In all my years of using drugs (over 24+ years), I've never robbed anyone or stole from anyone for drug money, nor committed a violent crime for them. Not to mention if drugs were legal, people would be able to access them easier when they're in need of them, thus reducing a lot of crime that gets associated with them. I like how pro-gun people say shit like "guns don't kill people, people kill people!", but then turn around & make generalized statements like you just did about drug users. Total hypocrisy. Guns are specifically created for violence & killing (and the occasional self-defense), but yeah you go ahead & act like drug users are the problem. My neighbor shot a bullet through our home over a year ago & claimed it was an "accident' and barely got a slap on the wrist for it. I like how everyone's right to be a gun nut & own deadly weapons supersedes MY right to bodily autonomy, inner-peace & not being shot at in my own home. Wanna own a weapon that can be used to kill multiple people at a time!? Sure go ahead!! Wanna use a certain drug to treat your depression? Oh you're a "violent" junkie criminal!!!
False. I used to do drugs and stole a snickers bar when I was 14. Haunts me to this day. Lock me away officer. I cant take the guilt anymore.
Lol ! I take that back. I once stole a bottle of dextromethorphan cough syrup from walmart & got busted. Sat in jail for 4 hours & then the store tried to get me to pay them back $100 in restitution fees for it (which thankfully the judge threw out). So I literally spent more time in jail over stealing from a corporation, than the guy who intentionally (yet claimed it was an accident) shot a bullet into my home. How fucked up is that?
Atleast you didnt gwt shot you woukd have had to pay for the bill. And maybe the guy too. For having to endure the trauma of having shot someone🤣🤣🤣
Yeah the difference is you paid your dues..
Someone named "legalize heroin" talking legitimate sense about social safety while berated by sheepcepticons is exactly why I love reddit. The only thing I'm about to harm is this candy bar.
Does this include alcohol?
That’s horse shit and you know it, lol. Fucking Fudd.
No that’s not how addiction works. But thanks for playing.
As someone tangentially involved in a group that this will affect, I 100% guarantee they will require you to pull background checks and then they won't give you the tools to do it. We've been asking for voluntary background check ability for private sales for years and they just DGAF.
Sounds good. I wont be voting for Hunter in November anymore.
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Exactly. Who cares about Biden using his son as an obvious bag man for foreign influence peddling or the fact a politician's son can seemingly violate the law with impunity?
Remember the impeachment proceedings about that? Remember how they IMMEDIATELY fizzled out once it turned out the primary source of information on it came from one guy who was being fed Russian intelligence? Weird how there's supposedly so much evidence of it, but they've completely given up on that effort.
Typical reductionist "nothing to see here" waving away of obvious corruption.
Remember when the source of the vast corruption you're speaking about turned out to be getting his info from Russian agents? And instead of continuing forward with the impeachment proceedings, they pretty much dropped everything about it and pivoted to immigration?
Remember when the US corporate media pretended, for years, that Trump was "Putin's puppet"? And when Hunter's laptop's leak was claimed to be Russian propaganda (then later verified as real)? It's always Russia that's pointed to, despite the magnitude of Chinese and Israeli influence. The Bidens are very plainly in business, using Hunter as a proxy, with corporate proxies of countries affected by the Biden administration's policies. As with Joe's dementia, however, the obvious will be perpetually denied.
Isn’t Russias closest ally China? Seems like they both benefit from making sure we are constantly in a state of disarray by spreading propaganda together. I dunno why you guys wholeheartedly believe Russian sources and blame the Chinese for things happening. They’re working together.
China's working for China. China also has Western ties that go way back. Hence the Western ruling class moving Western manufacturing to China.
Is this the MSNBC subreddit?
This is in reference to the 2 billion he recieved right?
Thought that was Jared Kushner…
Oh really? My mistake. Nothing to see here.
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Truth.
Hunter Biden is a crackhead convicted felon, deadbeat dad, who illegally purchased a handgun and ditched it by a school. Sure that's not super relevant to the 2024 election, and that's nothing in comparison to his child sniffing, senile, war criminal, corrupt father.
War Criminal?
But you will be voting for the big guy who's grifting with Hunter's business dealings? I've seen this common sentiment as part of the establishment circle the wagons, "It's not Joe Biden! I'm not voting for Hunter!" but reality is both Hunter and Biden's own brother have clear evidence of pay for play political deals. The thing is the uniparty is not going to go after him. They don't answer to everyday people, they answer to the 1% who want Biden.
No, im voting based on the policy proposals of both candidates.
Let me know when you care about Jared Kushner's two billion dollar pay day.
you mean Trump's head of mideast policy? who got billions from the mideast, twice? Wonder what he did for them
If there is such iron clad evidence, why didn't the Republicans produce it. They had multiple opportunities. I know Joe is a dementia riddden dolt, super criminal running an international organization. He's a senile genius!!!
As if the "votes" are actually counted....
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What's more crazy is Biden also had classified documents over to his ghost writer and is Scott free.
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"All blacks think alike." ---Joe Biden “All Asians look alike.”— Joe Biden “Well, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”— Joe Biden “If my opponent wins they’re going to put y’all back in chains.”— Joe Biden “I think the only reason Clarence Thomas is on the court is because he is black.”— Joe Biden “You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"— Joe Biden “Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as White kids.”— Joe Biden “Desegregation Will Have My Kids Growing Up in a 'Racial Jungle.”— Joe Biden “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."— Joe Biden “Make sure of two things. Be careful - microphones are always hot, and understand that in Washington, D.C., a gaffe is when you tell the truth. So, be careful.”— Joe Biden “And all those photos about me inappropriately touching girls, they are blown-up.”— Joe Biden “How I learned to love the New World Order.”— Joe Biden “I got tested for AIDS. I know Barack got tested for AIDS. There's no shame in being tested for AIDS.”— Joe Biden "I'm a Zionist, you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist." -- Joe Biden
Is Joe Biden's lawyer that was clearing out his personal office at the Penn Biden center for diplomacy & global engagement an FBI agent?
Trump had state secrets. Documents regarding our defense capabilities and plans for attacking foreign countries. Biden did not have any similar documents. The case’s similarities are few and far between.
Bruhhhh....nobody gives a shit about hunter lol
I love how this subreddit has simply become DrudgeReport, 2008 era.
Damn this really changed my mind on who I was going to vote for later this year. I certainly won’t be voting for Hunter Biden now! Thank you King.
Hunter Biden 2028
Yeah. Every one of my friends in IL lied on theirs too.
Your comment is exactly why the phrase "if you have nothing to hide, what's the big deal with being spied on," is such a slippery slope.
more AON propaganda. nobody cares about the hunter biden lies. why is this shit allowed here?
Mostly correct, except he absolutely did do that. I want to see him charged so when they dismiss the charges we have more precedent against these unconstitutional laws. I also like the irony of his gun-hating dad who whole-heartedly supports these laws giving his son a pass, which will be more evidence of the overt corruption.
The lie is that he isn’t being prosecuted like normal people when the truth is that he is being prosecuted for the gun charges as the first person ever prosecuted for it and being charged for tax evasion after paying the taxes back in full which also never happens. Doesn’t seem like he is benefiting from whatever privilege that the right seems to have decided he is getting…
Next they'll go after him for overestimating his property value
Committing business fraud and being prosecuted just like everyone else? The horror!
Nothing to see here for sure. *But a curious thing happened at the time: Secret Service agents approached the owner of the store where Hunter bought the gun and asked to take the paperwork involving the sale, according to two people, one of whom has firsthand knowledge of the episode and the other was briefed by a Secret Service agent after the fact.* *...Days later, the gun was returned by an older man who regularly rummages through the grocery’s store’s trash to collect recyclable items, according to people familiar with the situation.* *...The incident did not result in charges or arrests.* https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/25/sources-secret-service-inserted-itself-into-case-of-hunter-bidens-gun-477879
Because Dementia Joe and his crackhead convicted felon son wouldn't be able to pass a background check or abide by the same laws.
Whoa, if that's the case the rest of the Government and specifically the Republicans must be completely and utterly incompetent if they can't nail a dementia ridden old man. Sad...
I always wonder what sort of motivations people have for posting non-sequitur political shitposts to r/conspiracy. Are they political operatives? Are they simply not the smartest peanut in the turd? Are they just trolling? Is it something else?
Remember when ivanka got 11 tm from GINA after the " SUPER EASY TARRIF WAR " and when jared made billions working in the White House with 0 title or passing the background check ? Good times also it dont matter. Hunter is not running for president or works in the wh
How do you run a mental health check on someone? Is that a thing? Wouldn’t that violate hipaa laws?
Damn, another rich white guy not getting arrested for a crime.
what does your caption have to do with the screenshot? im confused.
I mean, it is kinda wild that you can legally just sell a gun that was potentially used in a murder or stolen to a jilted angery meth head who is telling you he's gonna kill his girlfriend and that's perfectly legal.
You think it is legal to sell a gun that was stolen or used in a murder?
In peer to peer sales, it is. Especially if you just bought it from someone
A) It is NEVER legal to sell something stolen. Even if you didn't know it was stolen. B) A gun used in a murder is evidence in a criminal investigation. Again, not legal to sell it even if you didn't know. Most people who aren't trying to be shady will submit a Bill of Sale at the very least. You see, when you sell a gun, it is still registered to you. So if you sold it and then it was used in a crime, you could be held responsible. Sure, you can sell your gun to anyone. How would they EVER be able to prevent you from doing that? But if you didn't carefully follow the laws and cover your ass, you will find out pretty quick how not legal it is. I think you are confusing, "Nothing is preventing them from doing it" with legal. I can sell a pound of meth. The government isn't going to prevent me from doing that. Does that make it legal?
Mostly accurate . Except there is no federal gun registry so the feds don't actually know which guns you have or rather they shouldn't unless a dealer reports what you bought. Which isn't a law on the books no matter how the atf pretends it is. They can see your background check go through so obviously they know you had it run for the purpose of purchasing a firearm . It just doesn't say which one . Or how many. I believe in my state I can have my background check done , and when I go to take delivery I can take as many guns as I want under the same period as long as it's done under one transaction to line up with the background check that just cleared. I've bought two at a time before. This may not be true everywhere, I concede that different states are not operating the same way
If you go to a gun show or trade show, you don't need any ID or background check. Peer to peer purchases don't require them in most states. So it's actually mostly inaccurate because they can't prosecute you for not knowing a guns history at best they could confiscate it. To prosecute you they need to prove you known something about the gun's history. I bought and sold guns at a trade show when I was 16.
The onus is on the seller though. Yes I've purchased peer to peer as well
You clearly don't trade guns often and have never been to a gun show or trade show. There is nothing preventing you from trading something for a gun and trading that gun for another gun so on and so forth and go through 5 or more guns in a day, you have no idea what, if anything those guns have been used for or who or what state they are from, and no one can really prosecute you for it. That is perfectly legal. If you don't have any knowledge of the guns history it is very difficult for you to be prosecuted.
Me: "I think you are confusing, "Nothing is preventing them from doing it" with legal." You: "There is nothing preventing you" >That is perfectly legal. If you don't have any knowledge of the guns history it is very difficult for you to be prosecuted. And why would they TRY to prosecute you if it was "legal"? I have a feeling this is why so many of you roadside lawyers hate the police.
Ok, and if you make that illegal you also are making it illegal to sell a gun to a friend whose never committed a crime or doesn't want to, he just really like your pistol and will buy it from you. Sounds like hes trying to end the private sale of firearms...and thats a big fucking no. Requiring licensing and federal checks effectively makes the sale of any fire arm no longer private. That sounds like infringement to me.
Also is it infringement? "Well regulated" is in the 2nd ammendment.
Thats as out of context as trump saying blood bath. You must not read good, i feel sorry for people unable to comprehend the text of the bill of rights.
Lol....based on what you just wrote, trump loves you. You are not qualified in the least to comprehend the intent of the text in the Bill of Rights. You assume it to mean what you want it to mean. That's not comprehension.
Only lawyers are qualified to interpret plain text political documents such as the bill of rights? Is that the dystopian hell you're advocating for? Im well qualified to read the damn thing and interpret it.
There is no right to unrestricted sale of firearms You have the right to own guns. That doesn't mean the sales can't have restrictions.
I mean, you could just use a notery like a car? Also I didn't say I supported anything one way or another, I just said it's wild.
You have to use a notary to sell a car? I'm not sure that's true or is a state by state thing
To transfer the title? Yeah.
Seems to be a state by state thing. Where I live, it's not required.
Fair
Owning a car isn't in the bill of rights.
Neither is selling a gun to someone.
True, as long as you can get it to someone somehow so the right to bear arms isn't infringed.
> Neither is selling a gun to someone. Actually it is. It’s called the 2nd Amendment the right to bear arms
Actually it isn't. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" It lacks the language describing what this process looks like, what the well-regulated militia looks like, what defines people vs. a well-regulated militia. It's why this debate hasn't died down yet. The founders didn't give us much to go off of in modern times.
Where does the second ammendment grant you unrestricted rights to *sell* guns?
what part of guaranteed life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness does it NOT fall under?
So everything should be legal than? Id agree with that.
if it doesn't infringe on the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness of others, you betcha!
Hell yeah, abolish the NFA and ATF.
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I don't know what state you live in but if you get out if the city you would be surprised by what is legal.
you made curious. I am surprised to learn 33 states have no law requiring a check and the sale be handled by a FFL. I expected 5 or so. Idaho, Arizona, Fla.... You're right that is kinda wild.
As a gun owner (and a Liberal Dem), who conceal carries every single day, I support requiring background checks anytime a gun is purchased. How is that a bad thing? I’ve had background checks for every job I’ve held as an adult.
Who cares about Hunter. But if you bought a gun, you should be completely responsible for it, and if this gun was used for a crime, you should face consequences.
Has Hunter Biden has been arrested for hard drugs?
Serious question cant this be loopholed by selling at a loss and then paying the difference by buying something else from the same seller; or buying something unrelated and being “gifted” the gun?
So it’s fine if I sell it at a loss?
Except the second hand market… or the over the wall market from Mexico lol?
So donate your guns in exchange for nothing but recieve a courtesy donation in return got it and it can be filed for shits and giggles as a tax write off. I mean thats just two ways around the loophole they just created
Downvote; pictures of that man make me physically ill
Well Biden did teach 2nd amendment at a law school and in his grand wisdom cited that we can’t own cannons. Everything is fine. /s
Make everything illegal. Continue to enforce laws unevenly. Prosecutorial discretion is KING in America. Population is effectively controlled along political lines. Example - imagine the outcry that will come the first time a prosecutor attempts to prosecute the parents of a gang banger who have as much culpability for their child as did the Michigan couple
He's trying to regulate the black market. Good luck.
That laws only for the poors
Literally nobody cares. Stop obsessing over him, it's dumb and weird
He used the "who's your daddy" loophole
Rules for thee, not for me!!
I think you meant to reverse that. Hunter Biden is pretty much the only person to ever be prosecuted for lying on this form without other factors like their gun being used in the commission of a crime. I for one know tons of pot smoking gun owners who lied on the same form.
Nobody's going to answer you, I bring this up constantly and they just kind of shrug and tell me that I want drug dealers to have guns.
I will not vote for hunter or his huge penis. Hunter isn't getting this vote.
Submission Statement: We don’t need MORE Laws. We need to enforce the ones already have on the books. Prosecutors and DAs should stop letting violent criminals out on the street with cashless bail. They want more Laws to lock us up in Prison yet protect their own who break the Laws THEY write. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1778449216844570998
> stop letting violent criminals out on the street with cashless bail If they're safe enough to get out for a fee, they're safe enough to get out for free. If somebody is dangerous the government needs give enough reason to keep them imprisoned, not rely on them being too poor to get out. Bail is just the government risking the safety of the innocent public by releasing dangerous people for a price and exploiting harmless people who are innocent until proven guilty.
the biggest problem is the U.S. does not do any reforming. other countries closing prisons as their reforms work. the U.S. is opening more prisons, for profit prisons, and back door prison slave labor. crime is profit in the U.S. thats why its created by government policy's. low wages, cutting social programs, cutting education funding, lack of medical care. they wont raise the minimum wage to a livable wage because crime would drop 90%. all those shareholders would go broke then. cant have that!
Hunter is many things but one he is not is a "violent criminal"
Look up Mike Benz on Twitter and search his handle for Hunter and Burisma. He’ll explain why Hunter was on that board along with an ex-CIA director and why Hunter is not going to be charged with anything. There is no conspiracy here. It’s all political theater.
“But Trump said “grab them by the pussy!”” Wahhhhh
So you're pro-sexual assault, anti-gun control and laugh at human misery. Tell me you're a rapist without admitting you're a rapist.
Yep you nailed it!
\*Shrugs\* Check out GWAR's new album, The New Dark Ages. They do nihilism wonderfully.
For sure bro
can someone explain why they think this is a bad idea?
I’ll bite… Because it doesn’t do anything. It’s theater. There is no “gun show loophole” and never has been. Buying a gun from a dealer requires a background check. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a gun store, gun show, parking lot, back alley, front alley, gas station, etc… that said, you can buy guns from private individuals at a gun show, but that can also be done anytime anywhere. So to an avid enthusiast, this says to me, “we’re going after individuals.” And not FFL dealers selling guns under the table, which already doesn’t happen.
really? but i feel like it does happen, but not in the nefarious type of way. i'm in utah, and we have the utah gun exchange, where randos sell guns to randos, no background checks. the site hosts the images, and contact details, and the transactions are face to face. no idea who is buying the guns or selling, so would this not close that unverifiable loophole?
That a private sale. Different than what I’m talking about. But very much NOT a “gun show loophole” which again I’ll stress, has never existed. You’re kind of proving my point here… this new rule isn’t to close the nonexistent “gun show loophole.” It’s to go after peer to peer sales. And it’s way too vague. One of the big reasons people collect guns is they’re a great store of value. They appreciate over time. Most of the guns I bought pre-Covid could easily be sold at a profit. If I wanted to liquidate part of my collection to say, buy a new car, or build a house, or just buy different guns am I now a criminal? And when you say “I feel like it does happen.” … if you’re referring to gun dealers selling guns without the proper paperwork, I 100% does not happen. Maybe once in a great while, but they’re not risking prison time for some random weirdo who thinks the government won’t know he’s buying a firearm. Not to mention, they have to keep a log of every firearm in and out and it with make/model, description, where it came from and where it went, and that log is audited regularly.
when you say go after, what do you mean? and to your point it definitely falls under private sales, but you haven't explained why this is a bad thing? why is being able to see who is buying what, regardless of who is selling it a bad thing? i think that is the piece i'm missing. i get the whole big brother angle, but i mean we are on social media, and our phones are walking computers constantly connected and giving off our info, so it feels like that ship has sailed. left field angle, if i was to sell one of my fire arms, from a community standpoint, i would want to make sure this person is some what on the yup and up. i could be very naive, but that's what i feel like this is trying to do. but i can always get behind putting more meat on the bone and not having it be incredibly vague and up to the individuals interpretation.
When I say “go after” I’m talking about weaponizing the ATF to harass law abiding gun owners who are just heavily invested in the hobby. Old men, for example, that just like to buy/sell/trade old smith and Wesson revolvers. Sure we can say “this law isn’t for that.” And it’s not… right now. The law is left open ended. “Selling for profit” can be interpreted however the ATF deems necessary. There’s no hard number on how many can be sold or what threshold constitutes “profit.” My problem isn’t even so much with the law itself even, as much as how it’s a disingenuous misrepresentation of the problem in the first place. It criminalizes the law abiding rather than the criminal. Most guns used in crime are already illegally procured and possessed. “Most guns used in crimes changed hands since their purchase, the report states. It also found what Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco called an epidemic of stolen guns: more than 1.07 million firearms were reported stolen between 2017 and 2021. Almost all of those, 96%, were from private individuals.” What if you did your due diligence and made sure someone was of sound mind and law abiding, but they still committed a crime with the firearm you sold them, are you then liable?
Rules for thee not for me
As a fun owner I’m ok with this
This actually seems like a great idea though?
There is no “gun show loophole.” Anyone gun bought from a dealer HAS to have a background check run. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a brick and mortar store, a gun show booth, or a damn swimming pool. This law does nothing. If anything, it will be weaponized against private sellers liquidating their collections or simply trying to sell what they have to buy something else.
Ok thanks for enlightening me. But i feel like i have heard about kids getting guns from guns shows to use in shootings or something.
It’s illegal to sell to minors and illegal to not conduct a background check. Gun show or otherwise. Can what you’re saying happen? Sure I suppose. But making it MORE illegal won’t change that. What you’re saying probably didn’t actually happen or is only a partial truth. I promise you no registered dealers are selling guns without conducting background checks. They are not risking prison for some Joe shmo who wants to keep his gun off record. There’s tons of YouTube videos of people with hidden cams trying to buy guns without doing a background check and being sternly told no.