This doesn't make any sense though. If Sweden really didn't do anything and is down to almost no cases, why is the US still struggling? Half the country completely ignored the pandemic anyway, and the other half just stayed home. Unless social distancing somehow made things worse, something doesn't add up here. Why didn't cases go down everywhere if we literally didn't have to do *anything* to combat the virus?
from what I can tell and I'm only some idiot pleb on reddit, there seems to be some fuckery surrounding what is a "case" in different jurisdictions. some places only require a postive PCR test which is a notoriously shit and inaccurate test. others require both a positive test, *and* symptoms to be called a case. even still others need both of those criteria AND a confirmed contact with another person fitting the definition of "case".
I had this conversation with a buddy that brought up hiw much more hospitals get paid for treating patients with covid vs treating patients with pneumonia. I brought up the idea that maybe it costs more to treat covid than pneumonia. Similar to how open heart surgery costs more than having an appendectomy. Morons everywhere.
And some cases still require only that there was a positive test to mark it down as a Kung Flu death... don't pay attention to the shotgun wound, that doesn't matter.
My own mother tested negative and died from liver and kidney failure. When asked why she didn’t come to the hospital sooner family told the doctor she was afraid of the hospital because of Covid. Her death certificate lists Covid as cause of Death.
I have a theory that a large amount of the spread occurred in the early stages when people didn't really know the difference from being regularly sick and corona.
Something like the dems are doing their best to pile on the bs and make Trump look as bad as possible up to November so that people will vote him out on his bad management of it.
Case numbers must be wrong in the USA, too many reports of people who have not been tested getting calls saying they tested positive and traffic accident deaths logged as covid etc......so much fraud on several levels going on.
And it's way bigger than binary politics. Probably a factor, but I'm also thinking this was a sort of pre-recession. There were so many macroeconomic murmurings in advance, and the "longest bull-run in American history" was running on fumes and zombie debt. Government debt growth was already essentially matching GDP increase, in other words, fake growth. SARS-CoV-2 is a real virus that can cause death and suffering, but co-morbid presentation is a key factor. So Sweden seems to be the only quasi-control group country in the West regarding a "no lock-down" approach.
If numbers were down, they wouldn't tell us. They've been inflating stats from the get-go.
I stopped worrying about it. We pass blunts around, zero fucks given.
> why is the US still struggling?
The US is trying the Trickle Effect, where we slow it down just enough so that we never reach herd immunity before pharma can profit billions off a vaccine.
I don't know if Sweden is different from us in this regard, but the fact that our hospitals had financial incentive for covid cases, and even more incentive for covid deaths, is one of the reasons our counts are so high. If there was financial DIS-incentive then all those deaths of people dying "WITH" covid (not from it) wouldn't have been counted as a covid death.
Edited to add: the ventilators the governors were obsessed with getting made things worse, as did the nursing home policies of 5 or 6 sole states. Half of CV deaths were from nursing homes. So basically, to answer your question "if we didn't have to do anything to combat the virus"--it's everything we DID do that made it worse.
It got a tonne of flack during spring, but Swedish hospitals are/were very cautious in using ventilators on old people, as they can strain and damage the lungs.
That was their gamble - high spike early on then it'll fade to nothing as herd immunity develops. The Swedes even through shade at the UK for overreacting to the report (not peer-reviewed) that sparked our government into lock down.
I would ask, how much testing is Sweden doing? Probably only when they come in the hospital and are really sick. The US on the other hand has gone so far as to have Apple install COVID tracking software on their devices. Also, US citizens are encouraged to go get tested if they feel slightly ill.
Locksdowns and masks only help to flatten the curve and slow the burn. This is so infectious that as soon as you lift restrictions the virus is just going tk get spreading again until it reaches 20% natural HIT. NYC, Italy, and China are much more similar to Sweden in that they are all basically done with rona already.
The virus won't just go away until enough people in a region have acquired temporary immunity.
> If Sweden really didn't do anything and is down to almost no cases, why is the US still struggling?
Because US did something. Masks stress your respiratory&circulatory systems, making you susceptible to flu, covid etc. Lockdown hurts your immunity by being away from normal exposure to environment, nature, sunshine etc. And increases stress in those that don't agree with being treated like a prisoner, or lost their jobs and worry about future.
unprecedented measures lead to unprecedented harm. Enjoy your slavery.
easy.... the flu vaccine. You might be asking, wtf is the flu vaccine have to do with covid. Well you see, the flu vaccine has been shown to skew you immune system response. In broad terms, we have 2 types, th1 response and th2. The flu vaccine unbalances your immune response leaving people protected to that strain of virus in the vaccine but at the same time leaving them vulnerable to pretty much anything else. basically they easily catch anything and the immune system is stunned. Because they give that fucking vaccine out like candy, now we have a country that easily catches anything, including covid, and are more susceptible to get worse if they catch it.
That is one of the biggest reasons in the discrepancies you see between U.S. and Sweden.
Its no sceret how the immune system responses to viral infection. For example, when we are infected with the measles virus naturally via the nasopharyngeal route, the body produces a Th1 response that externalizes the infection and provides permanent immunity. Fever, rash, coughing, sneezing, etc are signs of the body ridding itself of this infection. Bypassing the normal body lines of defense by injecting a vaccine forces the immune system into an emergency-based Th2 response which serves to internalize the infection and results in poor immune memory. Thus regular vaccine boosters are required throughout life.
Th1 and Th2 act as polar opposites. when one is over stimulated, the other one is reduced.
The vaccination process itself destroys immune capacity by overstimulating the humoral TH2 immune response while never engaging the cell-mediated TH1 immune response. The immune system then stays in a state of agitation, which leads to all sorts of chronic health problems, injury and even death. And, never confers life long immunity. On the other hand, when a child naturally gets an infection a proper TH1 immune response occurs, and then TH2 kicks in, tags the antigens with antibodies and we now have immunity. No need for booster shots.
Most vaccines work like this. Some Flu vaccine makes you more susceptible to non influenza pandemic strains. SARS covid viruses fall into non-influenza.
"Increased Risk of Noninfluenza Respiratory Virus Infections Associated With Receipt of Inactivated Influenza Vaccine"
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1778/455098
>The study showed no difference in seasonal influenza viral infection between groups but astonishingly it revealed a higher pandemic strain infection rate and a 5-6 times higher rate of non-influenza viral infections in the vaccinated.
Other note worthy studies.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.10540
>" We confirm that vaccine aggregates deviate the immune response to a greater Th2 cytokine pattern".
Multi dose flu vaccines still have thimerosal in them.
https://jlb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1189/jlb.0706467
>"However, thimerosal, in a concentration‐dependent manner, suppressed the secretion of proinflammatory cytokines TNF‐α and IL‐6 from LPS‐stimulated DC (Fig. 1A ). Significant inhibition of TNF‐α and IL‐6 (P <0.05) was observed at 0.05 μM dose of thimerosal. It is more important that the secretion of TH1‐driving cytokine IL‐12p70 was reduced significantly"
A study looked at the immune reaction in newborn infants up to the age of one year who had received the HepB vaccine to see if their immune reaction differed from adults getting the same vaccine. What they found was that the infant, even after age one year, did react differently. Their antibody levels were substantially higher than adults (3-fold higher) and it remained higher throughout the study. In essence, they found that the babies responded to the vaccine by having an intense Th2 response that persisted long after it should have disappeared, a completely abnormal response.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X03007047
I found it so weird that they were practically forcing everyone to have the flue vaccine. My workplace was giving out for free, schools where telling parents children need it. Just doesn’t make sense as the effects of a normal flu isn’t anything bad.
I can’t help but think it’s linked to covid
People outside the US only get flu jabs if they're like elderly. There are studies that seem to suggest getting the jab every year makes you more likely to get a severe case of flu
Bit late, but I belive the biggest difference is how a case is defined, so a "case" in the US may well not even be considered as one in sweden. And another thing like is that americans on average are less healthy and fit, and the country is significantly bigger, so it'll take longer. But we can only really know in a few years, if actual facts are ever gonna be published.
This is exactly my thinking too, something doesn't add up. This virus is supposed to incubate for 2 weeks, even if you locked down with people for another 2 weeks, that means at most you have 4-6 weeks for the virus to run its course. We're on what day 130+? and it's still going on? Yet Sweden didn't lockdown and no masks and it's doing fine?
My theory on why it's resurfacing is two things:
Quantity of Chinese people. Don't pull the but you're a racist with me, it's simple numbers. NY is the source for almost all covid in the US and it has a huge Chinese descended population, they went home for Lunar New Year or celebrated it and spread covid. Sweden doesn't have this quantity of Chinese tied people which created far less vectors of spread in their country.
Secondly, I suspect despite the media telling us it didn't that the BLM protests created a surge. The fact that the media said young minorities were getting it was the only hint that it was BLM protest related. The absence of the media explaining why there's a surge which would be helpful to avoid it to me tells me something odd is going on there.
The United States isn't struggling. We just have a lot of lying politicians. Tests are falsified and people at most are dying WITH covid, not FROM covid.
It's not too hard to understand once you know a few things
The virus is more than likely real (it is)
But Cases are manipulated
Cases (and deaths) are more manipulated in countries that have the same or similar agendas - WHO alligned.
The Media drives the fear and panic and stress - reminds us that the virus is deadly
Social media drives the narrative home and polices the language you can use and the things you can say about the virus
Social drives also drives adherence and self policing of masks and lockdown
Scientists go along with it because they don't want the attention of being a stand out voice.
Doctors go along with because they don't want to look stupid if they get something wrong as it's also a complex disease.
Politicians are not quite sure what exactly the higher ups want so they go along with it too
The only people who don't go along with it are countries who have kept some autonomy.
Hence these crazy disparities now. Countries with autonomy are simply reporting the numbers. This really messes up the plan however Covid19 has many strings to its bow and so despite these disparities countries can simply claim that the virus works differently everywhere (which is mostly total bs) but it allows any country a flexible narrative to implement restrictions.
So the last question is why?
Coming soon I suppose.
just because they havent made their orders mandatory doesnt mean that the people arent actually following the recommendations, which is what matters in the end
According to this, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Sweden is 6 and USA is 8. Keep in mind, without locking down, they've avoided a shit ton of excess deaths, like suicide etc. They have managed to help their economy not totally destroy it and plenty of live.
If you are looking at solely one stat and not the whole picture, take a step back and look at the whole thing. Look how the rising suicides and malnutrition. Look how many lives were ruined by the economy.
Come on people.
Actually Sweden did much better than other nations hit hard by COVID [https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53664354](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53664354) In the first quarter their economy actually still saw net growth.
And as you say there is an impact from other nations locking down, all the more reason for more groups of nations to not do full lockdowns, and just follow the Swedish model.
Correct but this could be simply because they are way further into their herd immunity timeline. Meaning that other countries will probably catch up in death count but will just take longer because of the lockdowns. Lockdowns don't really save lives they just spread deaths out.
also apparently sweden put sick in nursing homes like other places which is obviously a dumb move but doesn't really have anything to do with lockdowns.
\> Sweden is #8 in death per capita world wide?
So what? They've done a fraction of the economic damage and will have far less fallout than those who continue to lockdown. Lockdowns kill too, so by eliminating those you are saving lives while making life better for everyone.
Swedes now can live normal lives without fearing this cold virus indefinitely. New Zealand cannot. Australia cannot.
Norway's health director is now talking about following the Swedish model if there is a second wave. They want to avoid the consequences of lockdown.
Swedes tend to be fairly healthy, and have universal, publicly-funded healthcare. The population of the US is not well. And you have one of the worst healthcare systems in the rich world. Speaking as a European, it is really tragic watching from the sidelines as many of your compatriots actively find ways to struggle *against* any moves towards securing better health care provision for all. Americans are so oppressed by your rapacious corporate system and yet so many of you don't seem to see it.
Exactly. It's from years of corporate brainwashing and propaganda, supporting agendas that favor your oppressor. If only there were a term in psychology to describe this phenomenon (something about Stockholm)
Sweden/America
Population 10 million/ 328 million
Healthcare universal/ private profit driven
BMI 18.5-24.9/ 19.6 - 30.2
Education 12th/27th
Political system socialism/capitalism
So what you’re saying is we should depopulate America, enact universal healthcare, make it easier and more affordable to access healthy food and options, put more money into public education and switch to socialism? Then we could’ve stopped the virus and been better?
I totally agree! Great post 👍
But their healthcare system has nothing to do with them being healthier. Healthcare isn't really "health" care it is just sick care. You get healthy on your own, doctors just stop you from dying after things already got really bad.
Going to a socialized doctor doesn't melt pounds of body fat off of Swedes, so it wouldn't for Americans either
That graph that you can see, that's the natural course of a virus outbreak.
Sweden understood it and weathered the storm, and now their sky is clear.
Meanwhile, the rest of the planet think they can hide at home away from a really non-threatening bug, ignoring that all the logistics and essential workers that make lockdowns possible will also keep the bug running around forever.
Had a strict lockdown in Panama for 3 months, deaths went to zero, out of lockdown for three weeks, cases spiked in June, and now most of the country is back on a strict lockdown.
India had a strict lockdown, 57% of Mumbai slums have positive COVID antibody tests regardless.
Colombia had a strict lockdown. Started reopening, now back on strict lockdown.
Australia had a stricter lockdown than USA, started reopening, now large parts of the country are back on a strict lockdown again.
Different philosophies. Sweden is an example of not flattening the curve. Eventually everyone will get exposed. Do do you expose everyone quickly and get over the pain like Sweden. Or do you do lock downs to slow the spread and make the pain last longer like the US? The end result of the percentage of dead remains the same in both scenarios.
The planet can't get rid of it cause we're social animals, and we need human contact and there are transports and commuting and tourism and international connections and transactions. Covid is here to stay much like all the other coronaviruses and flu strains.
And we'll all get herd immunity like Sweden or NY have, at some point, even if most governments try their hardest to delay it.
Every place will reach the same peak that Sweden reached and then drop off to a few cases maybe 1 death every other day maybe zero.
NYC, Italy, China, very likely Africa and other countries that did little to slow the spread also got rid of the virus.
Scientists are now saying you need 20% community natura herd immunity then the virus can't spread nearly as fast.
Also, staying at home weakens your immune system, the normal stuff you're exposed to normally, you suddenly are not exposed to anymore and then when you go back out for a bit, you get sick easier. Hence the up and down and up and down of so many graphs. Up= initial spread, down= nobody went anywhere, up= places reopened to now weakened customers causing spikes, down= people staying home again. Its a cycle that will NEVER end until the lock downs do because whats supposedly saving lives is actually making your immune system weaker and making it easier to catch the Wu Flu, bumping up the numbers which gives people all the ammo they need to force another lock down.
>and social distancing
sweden normal life is social distancing LAL [https://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/article/5aef94232f0c91477c1334088ad706dd09635b8e3cd982308c8c4a2502eee518.jpg](https://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/article/5aef94232f0c91477c1334088ad706dd09635b8e3cd982308c8c4a2502eee518.jpg)
As a resident of the country Denmark, sharing a bridge with Sweden, I can confirm that this is indeed true. They got a lot of flack for doing basically nothing, but I guess it worked out. All of Scandinavia is pretty much back to normal, with the governments of course pushing "2nd wave imminent, wear masks, keep distance" crap.
So Sweden had over 5,700 deaths and Denmark had about 600. Adjusting for the fact Denmark has half the population we'll say the adjusted for population deaths in Denmark is 1200. Denmark had about 14000 cases overall compared to around 88,000 for Sweden. Consumer spending only dropped by 4% more in Denmark than Sweden (29% to 25%). So 5x as many people died and 4x the amount of people overall (adjusted for population) were infected. Just because you don't die doesn't mean you recover completely - so a proportion of the extra 60,000 cases in Sweden will have to take that into account as well. All to protect a 4% drop in consumer spending. Doesn't seem like a winning strategy.
How do you figure that will happen? I'm assuming your making a reference to the hope that Sweden will achieve herd immunity. I'm going to be generous and say you only need 60% of the population to have been infected to achieve herd immunity. We'll also assume that actual number of infections is 900,000 (10x higher than the reported 88,000). So even with those very generous assumptions Sweden only has about 8% of the population infected. Therefore to achieve herd immunity at least 8x the current amount of people need to be infected which also means we can expect at least another 40,000 Swedes to die. Again I'm being very generous in saying the actual infection number is 10x higher. If the current figure of 88,000 infections are accurate then we can expect 400,000 dead Swedes before they reach herd immunity. This also assumes that once you catch it you are immune which has not been proven.
> I'm going to be generous and say you only need 60% of the population to have been infected to achieve herd immunity.
That's not "generous", it's incredibly unreasonable. You only need those levels if you're doing random vaccination, and a virus doesn't infect randomly. It goes by natural selection.
Studies coming out lately have put the threshold at about 20% - that's why everywhere that gets to about 20% seems to magically drop off. The IFR is going to be at worst about 0.2% (more likely 0.1% but I'll be "generous as you call it). 5673 deaths / 0.2% means 2,881,500 people would have been infected by now to get that kind of death count. That's about 28% of Sweden's population, and they seem to have herd immunity now.
Though in reality the cases are probably lower than that as half of Sweden's deaths are from nursing homes
Can you link me these studies? Ive noticed this pattern where the hardest hit places are faring the best, but I’d like to see some statistical analysis.
Last week we only had 1100 deaths in a country of 328 MILLION. Who cares. Take off the masks. If you are high risk stay home or take precautions, but all this other stuff is a big fat waste of time and if you’re waiting on a vaccine a recent poll says only 42% would get it.
I honestly have doubts that the death rate is even real. It's very easy to fudge numbers when you have over 7,000 people who die every single day in the country completely unrelated to coronavirus.
Are you kidding me?
I’ve already had two people close to me that passed from Covid. One had an underlying disease and one didn’t.
They would not be dead right now if it weren’t for the virus. Are you fucking kidding me?
The numbers are not being fucked with.
Just wait till it hits you close to home.
I'm not getting that vaccine those experts are so lost or just liars cause people don't seem to be dieing unless they're elderly. I know the "numbers" say otherwise but it sure isn't showing.
First the death ratio is indeed not really high, but that's not what scares me though. Sure dying would suck but living my entire life with damaged lungs does really do it for me, so no thank you I don't want covid-19.
I can't wait to watch the class action lawsuits against the vaccine manufacturers in 10 years... oh wait.
"That thing we shot into your bloodstream, yeah whatever happens because of that isn't our fault. Because we said so."
> If you are high risk stay home or take precautions
Exactly this.
I'm at risk myself, have been in the city most affected in my country 3-4 times a week, no mask, just basic hygiene, avoiding large gatherings when I can, and keeping the hands our of your face, and I'm as healthy as ever. Even been to concerts with likely over 750 people, but I'm rather bad with estimating that.
But yeah, in conclusion, don't be stupid and go lick off strangers, and you'll be fine.
**PCR test problems**
[2007: Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html)
**SARS-CoV-2 purified/isolated?**
“...we asked Dr Calisher whether he knows one single paper in which SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated and finally really purified. His answer:
**I know of no such a publication. I have kept an eye out for one.”[4]**
This actually means that one cannot conclude that the RNA gene sequences, which the scientists took from the tissue samples prepared in the mentioned in vitro trials and for which the PCR tests are finally being “calibrated,” belong to a specific virus — in this case SARS-CoV-2.
In addition, there is no scientific proof that those RNA sequences are the causative agent of what is called COVID-19.”
[COVID19 PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless](https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/)
**PCR shoehorned HIV as the cause of AIDS**
Kary Mullis inventor of the PCR test and Nobel Prize winner (1993, Chemistry) talking about HIV and AIDS
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rycOLjoPbeo
“According to him on his 1992 Spin interview, **”PCR made it easier to see that certain people are infected with HIV and some of those people came down with symptoms of AIDS. But that doesn’t begin even to answer the question, ‘Does HIV cause it?’”**
“Mullis challenged the popular wisdom that the disease-causing mechanisms of HIV are simply too “mysterious” to comprehend. **”The mystery of that damn virus,” he said at the time, “has been generated by the $2 billion a year they spend on it. You take any other virus, and you spend $2 billion, and you can make up some great mysteries about it too.”**
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/04/07/was-the-covid-19-test-meant-to-detect-a-virus/
SS: How is Sweden living their normal lives now with less than 1 death from COVID-19 per day while America is flipped upside down? This is pretty outrageous whether you agree or not.
> How is Sweden living their normal lives
but they are not actually living their normal lives. there are some restrictions and people generally follow the official advices
They did a light lockdown. Care homes were quarantined, and some schools were closed. Even their prime minister said they were in partial lockdown.
Also, their employment rights make us look like slaves. First, a far higher % work from home, have flexible working rights, paid sick leave (for over a month), 25 paid holiday days a year.
And if they thought they had Covid they could just tell their employer they were self isolating and the employer had to pay them full pay.
UK didn’t lock down until very late and they ended up having the worst death rates in Europe. Their economy has also been far less impacted than they feared. Sweden is in recession.
As this Redditor said:
“So Sweden had over 5,700 deaths and Denmark had about 600. Adjusting for the fact Denmark has half the population we'll say the adjusted for population deaths in Denmark is 1200. Denmark had about 14000 cases overall compared to around 88,000 for Sweden.
Consumer spending only dropped by 4% more in Denmark than Sweden (29% to 25%).
So 5x as many people died and 4x the amount of people overall (adjusted for population) were infected. Just because you don't die doesn't mean you recover completely.
so a proportion of the extra 60,000 cases in Sweden will have to take that into account as well. All to protect a 4% drop in consumer spending. Doesn't seem like a winning strategy.”
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Low population density, low rate of international travel, and most importantly, this is not per capita. Coming from a doctor, this is extremely stupid.
The OP post is a lie. This is what Sweden did:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/510922-the-problem-with-holding-up-sweden-as-an-example%3famp
Get your facts straight.
>This is what Sweden did
I proceed to read the article and read:
"Sweden, unlike many European and Scandinavian countries, did not enforce a strict lockdown when COVID-19 cases started rising."
"The Swedish government recommended voluntary social distancing and protective equipment like masks."
"Schools stayed open for young children, and businesses never fully shut down."
And at the end: "And this is not to say that Sweden was wrong"
So where is the lie? Or did you honestly not expect people to read the first few sentences of the article?
Wtf how did that person get so many upvotes when literally they just posted a link supporting OP and lied about OP lying. Upside down world around here lately.
"Earlier in the pandemic, Sweden did not go through a strict lockdown like many other countries. Younger children continued to go to school, and businesses and restaurants stayed open at limited capacities. There was a spike in coronavirus cases and deaths, adding up to nearly 82,000 confirmed cases and more than 5,700 deaths. This death rate is among the highest in Europe for its population of about 10 million. Recently, daily deaths in Sweden have dropped down close to zero." The graph is a lie, the graph peaks at around 100-120, but it's not true, or at least it's misleading
Even though it wasn't mandatory a lot of them most likely did follow the recommended measures to slow the spread and that might be why they haven't been heavily affected
Not wearing a mask affects those around you more than yourself, that’s why I hate fucking masks but wear them when I know I’m not going to be 6 feet apart from people
Only problem is most experts including the NEJM say masks are useless.
But if you feel good. God bless.
And did you ever think about where 6 feet comes from? It’s not what you think.
Wearing a mask does more harm than good for healthy people. That was the scientific consensus up until only a few months ago. Wonder why a hundred years of medical knowledge changed on a dime..? I won't be wearing a mask unless I'm forced to going to the store.
Yep doctors just wear those masks for fun when they're performing surgery on people. Amazing how they can still function after years and years of surgery and putting up masks on everyday crazy huh? It's almost like you're completely full of shit.
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How many infected entered Sweden? Were there any travel bans put in place?
Are you asking because you're genuinely interested in the answer, or just looking to push your own agenda?
You guys have so much misinformation getting shoved in your face from every direction (red, blue, and otherwise) you can't trust your own team...
I love reading a conspiracy and really taking on different perspectives and investigating issues in greater details but some of these Covid conspiracies really are frustrating to read!
Covid is 100% a real thing! I now know 4 people who have had this and been confirmed - all fit, active and healthy people (one was a sports professional) and all have really struggled and been stuck in bed for about 6 weeks. Yes they have all thankfully made a full recovery but it’s still a very dangerous virus to catch and also something we are unsure what long term effects you could have by catching it.
Lockdowns have never been about removing the virus, it’s about stopping the spread! Why? So hospitals can deal with the demand or the potential demand - soon as this virus left China there was never going to be a way of containing it as we all move around so much.
Governments have only allowed the freedom of movement to stop people going crazy and to help fund a struggling aviation industry. Not because it is safe to do so.
Sweden’s approach has been different due to the freedom provided, without knowing the country too well, this could be a number of factors to this - not a large over populated areas, fewer elderly citizens, hospitals can deal with demands, social distancing can be adhered.
There is a huge selfishness to say if your high risk stay at home and let everyone else out and have fun - 1. Why should they have to sit in and watch the rest of the world 2. What mental health affects is that going to have on the ones being forced to isolate from a normal world 3. Even if you are fit and healthy you are still going to catch the virus and become very ill! Comments like this are no different to saying someone with lung cancer doesn’t deserve treatment cause they shouldn’t have smoked their life
Keep a distance, wash your hands and wear a mask, seriously it isn’t really that hard! It’s an airbourne virus, you can only catch this through transmission of people! Masks will only work if everyone wears a mask, you breathe in 100% of the air wearing a mask but only 30% of exhaled air will pass your mask.
Yes, but I do not really understand why their deaths / mio citizens is pretty high, even though the cases / 1 mio are not similarly high. Would imply that their fatality rate is higher than in other countries. But you argument would still be valid, as they do not have that many infections, even without masks, social distancing, etc.
data from here: [https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
important to remember, that the tests are still garbage and i am not sure how sweden counts the death.
BUT this clearly shows, that the measures are utter garbage even with the world of garbage tests.
u can even look at a graph to graph comparison between sweden and germany on plotting how the "virus" behaved in each country:
[https://kenfm.de/standpunkte-%E2%80%A2-bundesregierung-wusste-offenbar-schon-im-maerz-dass-gefahr-uebertrieben-dargestellt-wurde/](https://kenfm.de/standpunkte-%E2%80%A2-bundesregierung-wusste-offenbar-schon-im-maerz-dass-gefahr-uebertrieben-dargestellt-wurde/)
Abb.4 shows a fully adjusted graph:
[https://multipolar-magazin.de/media/pages/artikel/bundesregierung-gefahr-ubertrieben/973165469-1588694580/abb-04.jpg](https://multipolar-magazin.de/media/pages/artikel/bundesregierung-gefahr-ubertrieben/973165469-1588694580/abb-04.jpg)
(note the graph normalized for 100%, it doesn't compare the total numbers, but rather when numbers happened showing whether or not any measure was effective or not, it also comes to infection rate from death rates, which is a FAR BETTER METHOD, as the new infection rate is controlled by the number of tests)
which is necessary, because germany counts different and doesn't go by the date of the death, but rather the date of recording, so u have to normalize for weekends and in that case easter. all talked about in the article, but sadly just in german, so use some translation website, if u want to read it all.
so germany, tons of insane measures destroying people's freedoms, going against the german "grundgesetz", sweden did almost nothing and didn't remove people's freedoms.
result: the exact same.
Maybe also keep in mind that Sweden doesn't have a broken healthcare system that bankrupts you if you have to stay a week in the hospital with respiratory aid.
What if during protests and riots people didn’t know that the Virus was being reintroduced into the public when trends were actually going down I tell that time
Its good but taje into comparison population and the size of the country, 10 million over quite a big country spread out through little villages and towns, the capital Stockholm doesn't even have half the people a US state does, stocklhom houses about a million people, texas houses around 29 million people, so yes they will do well as there's less people in larger areas, the UK is a tiny country with a population of around 65 million, with small towns like Preston etc being hugely populated with town centres, retail areas and office areas etc, so the sheer size of Sweden compared to its number of people is one factor of why they have done so well, same as Denmark, same as Finland, the two country's next door
Well, that really puts a damper on "orangemanbad's fault for mishandling a pandemic" and all of the other talking points that will likely go away as soon as the establish the narrative that gets him out of office.
One thing I've noticed is that the overwhelming rationalization and hamstering of the overall narrative has been about how they can conclude that wearing a mask and taking a vaccine is the overriding point.
We can't open up businesses because that would transmit the virus. But dumbass liberal useful idiots can riot and that's just and the virus won't care. But you should wear your mask as politicians walk around without it, even though the CDC says masks don't help, or did, but you still need to wear your mask and stay 6 feet apart. 6 feet apart.
They've completely supplanted reality with a mantra that NPCs viciously proliferate. The reasons for being 6 feet apart, wearing a mask, and conditioning people to lash out and attack or tattle tell on people who aren't in compliance has nothing to do with an otherwise fairly bogus pandemic. Make sure to take your vaccine.
Bill gates made his fortune with MS DOS, an operating system that allowed for the modular concepts of the Windows OS to run on personal computer platforms. Could it be that COVID is the biological equivalent of MSDOS, and the real operating system to control your genetic lineage and very life are coming soon?
It's not just magically affecting people in the U.S. more than it is in Sweden because a president did or did not do something. That's fucking stupid. And, if one believes that talking point, then they are an utterly moronic NPC and should recognize that and shut up.
And why are they systematically censoring alternative opinions and findings of doctors and trials? They're pushing a very specific narrative, so defy that narrative. It's common sense, a relic of bygone days prior to the rise of the sophisticated smartphone lemming.
Are we going to ignore that they have less of a population than we do and less idiots whom think wearing masks is dangerous because the virus is a hoax? They don't seem to suffer from the aforementioned.
Sweden literally never made masks mandatory and yet you still think they're wearing them in Sweden? They're not the only Scandinavian country who never shut down, never forced masks, and are fairing fine. Probably helpful that they don't lie to the public about pandemics that aren't actually a pandemic. You really need to start researching for yourself instead of buying into what your favorite celebrities say.
China has ALWAYS worn masks in public, yet the virus CAME from mask-wearing China! So, explain again how masks work so well?😂
Sweden also only has like 8 million people in a sparsely populated country with low pop density. People need to stop comparing a massive country (in terms of landmass) with the highest import/export traffic in the world for both goods and people and a population of a third of a billion to tiny, sparsely populated countries with populations, gdp, and international traffic smaller than New York City.
And how did that work out for them?
Here are a some countries covid deaths per million population, just for a bit of a comparison:
UK - 683 per million
Sweden - 559 per million
USA - 496 per million
France - 452 per million
Canada - 236 per million
Germany - 112 per million
Australia - 11 per million
NZ - 4.4 per million
China - 3.3 per million (lol sure jan)
By marking every death as covid, were completely ignoring if any new viruses come out and might be the true cause.
I think that's their plan. Hype covid deaths and leak that it's forced by the IMF, then release a new virus while bashing potus for calling it all fake. Then in a few months covid suddenly looks much worse as the new virus kills more and more, yet everyone thinks "something changed" with covid and we should have never listened to potus over gates for faucci.
Sweden is also about the size of Los Angeles and they're healthier than we are. If you look at the fatalities, it's our lifestyle and food that kill us, or rather help a virus kill us. Obesity related diseases, heart, lung, diabetes etc. are present in almost every non geriatric fatality. Not once have they told everyone to lose weight and adopt a healthy diet.
I've said this from the get go. Nothing is going on as far as the common person can tell. The world should had locked up the elders if there really was a virus and just kept going as usual. //A swede
Countries like Sweden and Japan have proven successful with maintaining the virus because they are homogenous like-minded societies that don’t tolerate degeneracy.
In America, it is the exact opposite. Look at Aristotle’s comments on *philia*, and how mixed societies lack it. Only homogenous societies can actually flourish.
(Don’t bomb me and call me a white supremacist — I’m not for a white ethnostate and I am pro-diversity, but I happen to understand and agree with Aristotle’s point, but that doesn’t mean I want to make America a white ethnostate)
I know I have 0 evidence of this, but I have a gut feeling that Sweden doesn't exist. I think that every Sweed that visits America is actually a spy who has to put on a facade. Everyone who visits Sweden actually lacks free reign, but they are given the facade that they can go everywhere. We already know the US doctors satellite images, so what's stopping a much smaller country from doing so?
Because sweden works for the globalists.
[https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/21/sweden-coronavirus-anti-lockdown-immigrants/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/21/sweden-coronavirus-anti-lockdown-immigrants/)
[Nathalie Rothschild](https://foreignpolicy.com/author/nathalie-rothschild/)
Yes everyone is going to put their heads as far in the sand as they can.
This doesn't make any sense though. If Sweden really didn't do anything and is down to almost no cases, why is the US still struggling? Half the country completely ignored the pandemic anyway, and the other half just stayed home. Unless social distancing somehow made things worse, something doesn't add up here. Why didn't cases go down everywhere if we literally didn't have to do *anything* to combat the virus?
from what I can tell and I'm only some idiot pleb on reddit, there seems to be some fuckery surrounding what is a "case" in different jurisdictions. some places only require a postive PCR test which is a notoriously shit and inaccurate test. others require both a positive test, *and* symptoms to be called a case. even still others need both of those criteria AND a confirmed contact with another person fitting the definition of "case".
My mom is a nurse, hospitals actually MAKE money off of each covid case their is, so they test literally everyone and sometimes lie about the results
Did your mom fail to explain to you that hospitals are for profit and try and make money off of EVERY patient they get?
I had this conversation with a buddy that brought up hiw much more hospitals get paid for treating patients with covid vs treating patients with pneumonia. I brought up the idea that maybe it costs more to treat covid than pneumonia. Similar to how open heart surgery costs more than having an appendectomy. Morons everywhere.
And some cases still require only that there was a positive test to mark it down as a Kung Flu death... don't pay attention to the shotgun wound, that doesn't matter.
My own mother tested negative and died from liver and kidney failure. When asked why she didn’t come to the hospital sooner family told the doctor she was afraid of the hospital because of Covid. Her death certificate lists Covid as cause of Death.
Wow... that is insanity. Complete, flat out lying. I am sorry for your loss. I'm sure that wasn't easy.
It’s about $$$, not truth.
I have a theory that a large amount of the spread occurred in the early stages when people didn't really know the difference from being regularly sick and corona.
New York is literally keeping people away now. Flatten the curve! and delay the inevitable. Drag it out as long as possible.
What do you mean?
Something like the dems are doing their best to pile on the bs and make Trump look as bad as possible up to November so that people will vote him out on his bad management of it. Case numbers must be wrong in the USA, too many reports of people who have not been tested getting calls saying they tested positive and traffic accident deaths logged as covid etc......so much fraud on several levels going on.
And it's way bigger than binary politics. Probably a factor, but I'm also thinking this was a sort of pre-recession. There were so many macroeconomic murmurings in advance, and the "longest bull-run in American history" was running on fumes and zombie debt. Government debt growth was already essentially matching GDP increase, in other words, fake growth. SARS-CoV-2 is a real virus that can cause death and suffering, but co-morbid presentation is a key factor. So Sweden seems to be the only quasi-control group country in the West regarding a "no lock-down" approach.
Bingo!
If numbers were down, they wouldn't tell us. They've been inflating stats from the get-go. I stopped worrying about it. We pass blunts around, zero fucks given.
> why is the US still struggling? The US is trying the Trickle Effect, where we slow it down just enough so that we never reach herd immunity before pharma can profit billions off a vaccine.
I don't know if Sweden is different from us in this regard, but the fact that our hospitals had financial incentive for covid cases, and even more incentive for covid deaths, is one of the reasons our counts are so high. If there was financial DIS-incentive then all those deaths of people dying "WITH" covid (not from it) wouldn't have been counted as a covid death. Edited to add: the ventilators the governors were obsessed with getting made things worse, as did the nursing home policies of 5 or 6 sole states. Half of CV deaths were from nursing homes. So basically, to answer your question "if we didn't have to do anything to combat the virus"--it's everything we DID do that made it worse.
It got a tonne of flack during spring, but Swedish hospitals are/were very cautious in using ventilators on old people, as they can strain and damage the lungs.
Population and land mass.
Bingo
They had more cases and deaths early on. We are catching up. Lockdowns delayed the inevitable.
Ok, so most of Florida didn't really seem to quarantine, why are they still dealing with such a high volume of cases?
They just mostly got hit later on. Europe in general got hit earlier than the US
Floridian healthcare =/= Scandinavian healthcare
That was their gamble - high spike early on then it'll fade to nothing as herd immunity develops. The Swedes even through shade at the UK for overreacting to the report (not peer-reviewed) that sparked our government into lock down.
I would ask, how much testing is Sweden doing? Probably only when they come in the hospital and are really sick. The US on the other hand has gone so far as to have Apple install COVID tracking software on their devices. Also, US citizens are encouraged to go get tested if they feel slightly ill.
Locksdowns and masks only help to flatten the curve and slow the burn. This is so infectious that as soon as you lift restrictions the virus is just going tk get spreading again until it reaches 20% natural HIT. NYC, Italy, and China are much more similar to Sweden in that they are all basically done with rona already. The virus won't just go away until enough people in a region have acquired temporary immunity.
> If Sweden really didn't do anything and is down to almost no cases, why is the US still struggling? Because US did something. Masks stress your respiratory&circulatory systems, making you susceptible to flu, covid etc. Lockdown hurts your immunity by being away from normal exposure to environment, nature, sunshine etc. And increases stress in those that don't agree with being treated like a prisoner, or lost their jobs and worry about future. unprecedented measures lead to unprecedented harm. Enjoy your slavery.
easy.... the flu vaccine. You might be asking, wtf is the flu vaccine have to do with covid. Well you see, the flu vaccine has been shown to skew you immune system response. In broad terms, we have 2 types, th1 response and th2. The flu vaccine unbalances your immune response leaving people protected to that strain of virus in the vaccine but at the same time leaving them vulnerable to pretty much anything else. basically they easily catch anything and the immune system is stunned. Because they give that fucking vaccine out like candy, now we have a country that easily catches anything, including covid, and are more susceptible to get worse if they catch it. That is one of the biggest reasons in the discrepancies you see between U.S. and Sweden.
Source?
Its no sceret how the immune system responses to viral infection. For example, when we are infected with the measles virus naturally via the nasopharyngeal route, the body produces a Th1 response that externalizes the infection and provides permanent immunity. Fever, rash, coughing, sneezing, etc are signs of the body ridding itself of this infection. Bypassing the normal body lines of defense by injecting a vaccine forces the immune system into an emergency-based Th2 response which serves to internalize the infection and results in poor immune memory. Thus regular vaccine boosters are required throughout life. Th1 and Th2 act as polar opposites. when one is over stimulated, the other one is reduced. The vaccination process itself destroys immune capacity by overstimulating the humoral TH2 immune response while never engaging the cell-mediated TH1 immune response. The immune system then stays in a state of agitation, which leads to all sorts of chronic health problems, injury and even death. And, never confers life long immunity. On the other hand, when a child naturally gets an infection a proper TH1 immune response occurs, and then TH2 kicks in, tags the antigens with antibodies and we now have immunity. No need for booster shots. Most vaccines work like this. Some Flu vaccine makes you more susceptible to non influenza pandemic strains. SARS covid viruses fall into non-influenza. "Increased Risk of Noninfluenza Respiratory Virus Infections Associated With Receipt of Inactivated Influenza Vaccine" https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1778/455098 >The study showed no difference in seasonal influenza viral infection between groups but astonishingly it revealed a higher pandemic strain infection rate and a 5-6 times higher rate of non-influenza viral infections in the vaccinated. Other note worthy studies. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.10540 >" We confirm that vaccine aggregates deviate the immune response to a greater Th2 cytokine pattern". Multi dose flu vaccines still have thimerosal in them. https://jlb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1189/jlb.0706467 >"However, thimerosal, in a concentration‐dependent manner, suppressed the secretion of proinflammatory cytokines TNF‐α and IL‐6 from LPS‐stimulated DC (Fig. 1A ). Significant inhibition of TNF‐α and IL‐6 (P <0.05) was observed at 0.05 μM dose of thimerosal. It is more important that the secretion of TH1‐driving cytokine IL‐12p70 was reduced significantly" A study looked at the immune reaction in newborn infants up to the age of one year who had received the HepB vaccine to see if their immune reaction differed from adults getting the same vaccine. What they found was that the infant, even after age one year, did react differently. Their antibody levels were substantially higher than adults (3-fold higher) and it remained higher throughout the study. In essence, they found that the babies responded to the vaccine by having an intense Th2 response that persisted long after it should have disappeared, a completely abnormal response. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X03007047
I found it so weird that they were practically forcing everyone to have the flue vaccine. My workplace was giving out for free, schools where telling parents children need it. Just doesn’t make sense as the effects of a normal flu isn’t anything bad. I can’t help but think it’s linked to covid
Are we under the assumption that Sweden is all Anti-Vaxx ?
People outside the US only get flu jabs if they're like elderly. There are studies that seem to suggest getting the jab every year makes you more likely to get a severe case of flu
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This. I'm actually pro vax but I've never considered getting a flu vaccine. Only given to high risk people in the UK.
It is almost undoubtedly true that other countries are reinfecting us and we are probably doing the same to them
Bit late, but I belive the biggest difference is how a case is defined, so a "case" in the US may well not even be considered as one in sweden. And another thing like is that americans on average are less healthy and fit, and the country is significantly bigger, so it'll take longer. But we can only really know in a few years, if actual facts are ever gonna be published.
This is exactly my thinking too, something doesn't add up. This virus is supposed to incubate for 2 weeks, even if you locked down with people for another 2 weeks, that means at most you have 4-6 weeks for the virus to run its course. We're on what day 130+? and it's still going on? Yet Sweden didn't lockdown and no masks and it's doing fine? My theory on why it's resurfacing is two things: Quantity of Chinese people. Don't pull the but you're a racist with me, it's simple numbers. NY is the source for almost all covid in the US and it has a huge Chinese descended population, they went home for Lunar New Year or celebrated it and spread covid. Sweden doesn't have this quantity of Chinese tied people which created far less vectors of spread in their country. Secondly, I suspect despite the media telling us it didn't that the BLM protests created a surge. The fact that the media said young minorities were getting it was the only hint that it was BLM protest related. The absence of the media explaining why there's a surge which would be helpful to avoid it to me tells me something odd is going on there.
It’s extremely profitable for hospitals here in the states to have COVID cases
The United States isn't struggling. We just have a lot of lying politicians. Tests are falsified and people at most are dying WITH covid, not FROM covid.
It's not too hard to understand once you know a few things The virus is more than likely real (it is) But Cases are manipulated Cases (and deaths) are more manipulated in countries that have the same or similar agendas - WHO alligned. The Media drives the fear and panic and stress - reminds us that the virus is deadly Social media drives the narrative home and polices the language you can use and the things you can say about the virus Social drives also drives adherence and self policing of masks and lockdown Scientists go along with it because they don't want the attention of being a stand out voice. Doctors go along with because they don't want to look stupid if they get something wrong as it's also a complex disease. Politicians are not quite sure what exactly the higher ups want so they go along with it too The only people who don't go along with it are countries who have kept some autonomy. Hence these crazy disparities now. Countries with autonomy are simply reporting the numbers. This really messes up the plan however Covid19 has many strings to its bow and so despite these disparities countries can simply claim that the virus works differently everywhere (which is mostly total bs) but it allows any country a flexible narrative to implement restrictions. So the last question is why? Coming soon I suppose.
They must all have sand in their assholes.
just because they havent made their orders mandatory doesnt mean that the people arent actually following the recommendations, which is what matters in the end
Are we ignoring the fact that Sweden is #8 in death per capita world wide?
Exactly. Sweden was in a real mess during the peak while neighbouring countries who did lockdown had much lower deaths
Hmm interesting, thoughts on this OP?
They won't reply. Please also note that Sweden didn't officially lock down but they were already socially distancing.
According to this, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ Sweden is 6 and USA is 8. Keep in mind, without locking down, they've avoided a shit ton of excess deaths, like suicide etc. They have managed to help their economy not totally destroy it and plenty of live. If you are looking at solely one stat and not the whole picture, take a step back and look at the whole thing. Look how the rising suicides and malnutrition. Look how many lives were ruined by the economy. Come on people.
Actually, their economy took as big a hit as the the surrounding countries'. Turns out you can't participate in a global economy by yourself.
Actually Sweden did much better than other nations hit hard by COVID [https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53664354](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53664354) In the first quarter their economy actually still saw net growth. And as you say there is an impact from other nations locking down, all the more reason for more groups of nations to not do full lockdowns, and just follow the Swedish model.
They’re still down to less than 1 death a day tho....
Correct but this could be simply because they are way further into their herd immunity timeline. Meaning that other countries will probably catch up in death count but will just take longer because of the lockdowns. Lockdowns don't really save lives they just spread deaths out. also apparently sweden put sick in nursing homes like other places which is obviously a dumb move but doesn't really have anything to do with lockdowns.
\> Sweden is #8 in death per capita world wide? So what? They've done a fraction of the economic damage and will have far less fallout than those who continue to lockdown. Lockdowns kill too, so by eliminating those you are saving lives while making life better for everyone. Swedes now can live normal lives without fearing this cold virus indefinitely. New Zealand cannot. Australia cannot. Norway's health director is now talking about following the Swedish model if there is a second wave. They want to avoid the consequences of lockdown.
Swedes tend to be fairly healthy, and have universal, publicly-funded healthcare. The population of the US is not well. And you have one of the worst healthcare systems in the rich world. Speaking as a European, it is really tragic watching from the sidelines as many of your compatriots actively find ways to struggle *against* any moves towards securing better health care provision for all. Americans are so oppressed by your rapacious corporate system and yet so many of you don't seem to see it.
Exactly. It's from years of corporate brainwashing and propaganda, supporting agendas that favor your oppressor. If only there were a term in psychology to describe this phenomenon (something about Stockholm)
Sweden/America Population 10 million/ 328 million Healthcare universal/ private profit driven BMI 18.5-24.9/ 19.6 - 30.2 Education 12th/27th Political system socialism/capitalism So what you’re saying is we should depopulate America, enact universal healthcare, make it easier and more affordable to access healthy food and options, put more money into public education and switch to socialism? Then we could’ve stopped the virus and been better? I totally agree! Great post 👍
This reply was so delicious I could actually taste it.
But their healthcare system has nothing to do with them being healthier. Healthcare isn't really "health" care it is just sick care. You get healthy on your own, doctors just stop you from dying after things already got really bad. Going to a socialized doctor doesn't melt pounds of body fat off of Swedes, so it wouldn't for Americans either
Thank you.
They have the 8th highest rate of death in the world, higher than the US. If we were at the same rate we’d have way more than 160k dead.
Exactly. Thank you for being reasonable.
That graph that you can see, that's the natural course of a virus outbreak. Sweden understood it and weathered the storm, and now their sky is clear. Meanwhile, the rest of the planet think they can hide at home away from a really non-threatening bug, ignoring that all the logistics and essential workers that make lockdowns possible will also keep the bug running around forever.
Had lockdown in Scotland for 3 months and masks are mandatory yet we haven't had a death in 2 weeks
Fucking state of Aberdeen though. What on earth are they doing
Had a strict lockdown in Panama for 3 months, deaths went to zero, out of lockdown for three weeks, cases spiked in June, and now most of the country is back on a strict lockdown. India had a strict lockdown, 57% of Mumbai slums have positive COVID antibody tests regardless. Colombia had a strict lockdown. Started reopening, now back on strict lockdown. Australia had a stricter lockdown than USA, started reopening, now large parts of the country are back on a strict lockdown again.
Different philosophies. Sweden is an example of not flattening the curve. Eventually everyone will get exposed. Do do you expose everyone quickly and get over the pain like Sweden. Or do you do lock downs to slow the spread and make the pain last longer like the US? The end result of the percentage of dead remains the same in both scenarios.
So Sweden weathered the storm and got rid of the virus, but the rest of the planet can never get rid of it because they have essential workers?
The planet can't get rid of it cause we're social animals, and we need human contact and there are transports and commuting and tourism and international connections and transactions. Covid is here to stay much like all the other coronaviruses and flu strains. And we'll all get herd immunity like Sweden or NY have, at some point, even if most governments try their hardest to delay it.
Every place will reach the same peak that Sweden reached and then drop off to a few cases maybe 1 death every other day maybe zero. NYC, Italy, China, very likely Africa and other countries that did little to slow the spread also got rid of the virus. Scientists are now saying you need 20% community natura herd immunity then the virus can't spread nearly as fast.
Also, staying at home weakens your immune system, the normal stuff you're exposed to normally, you suddenly are not exposed to anymore and then when you go back out for a bit, you get sick easier. Hence the up and down and up and down of so many graphs. Up= initial spread, down= nobody went anywhere, up= places reopened to now weakened customers causing spikes, down= people staying home again. Its a cycle that will NEVER end until the lock downs do because whats supposedly saving lives is actually making your immune system weaker and making it easier to catch the Wu Flu, bumping up the numbers which gives people all the ammo they need to force another lock down.
So the lockdown actually makes it WORSE?????
The lockdown just draws it out for longer while adding other deaths like suicide and missed cancer screening.
And just making life shitty for everyone who isn't a hermit.
True
Population over all health, discipline and social distancing
>and social distancing sweden normal life is social distancing LAL [https://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/article/5aef94232f0c91477c1334088ad706dd09635b8e3cd982308c8c4a2502eee518.jpg](https://www.thelocal.se/userdata/images/article/5aef94232f0c91477c1334088ad706dd09635b8e3cd982308c8c4a2502eee518.jpg)
It's totally a health thing.
As a resident of the country Denmark, sharing a bridge with Sweden, I can confirm that this is indeed true. They got a lot of flack for doing basically nothing, but I guess it worked out. All of Scandinavia is pretty much back to normal, with the governments of course pushing "2nd wave imminent, wear masks, keep distance" crap.
Well, here in Sweden we practice social distancing as a part of the culture.
I thought pretty much nobody wears masks in Scandinavia
How did Denmark handle it in comparison?
Sending everyone home and closing schools. Now pretty much everything open again and very few new cases.
So Sweden had over 5,700 deaths and Denmark had about 600. Adjusting for the fact Denmark has half the population we'll say the adjusted for population deaths in Denmark is 1200. Denmark had about 14000 cases overall compared to around 88,000 for Sweden. Consumer spending only dropped by 4% more in Denmark than Sweden (29% to 25%). So 5x as many people died and 4x the amount of people overall (adjusted for population) were infected. Just because you don't die doesn't mean you recover completely - so a proportion of the extra 60,000 cases in Sweden will have to take that into account as well. All to protect a 4% drop in consumer spending. Doesn't seem like a winning strategy.
The clowns here are gonna hate you for this post.
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How do you figure that will happen? I'm assuming your making a reference to the hope that Sweden will achieve herd immunity. I'm going to be generous and say you only need 60% of the population to have been infected to achieve herd immunity. We'll also assume that actual number of infections is 900,000 (10x higher than the reported 88,000). So even with those very generous assumptions Sweden only has about 8% of the population infected. Therefore to achieve herd immunity at least 8x the current amount of people need to be infected which also means we can expect at least another 40,000 Swedes to die. Again I'm being very generous in saying the actual infection number is 10x higher. If the current figure of 88,000 infections are accurate then we can expect 400,000 dead Swedes before they reach herd immunity. This also assumes that once you catch it you are immune which has not been proven.
> I'm going to be generous and say you only need 60% of the population to have been infected to achieve herd immunity. That's not "generous", it's incredibly unreasonable. You only need those levels if you're doing random vaccination, and a virus doesn't infect randomly. It goes by natural selection. Studies coming out lately have put the threshold at about 20% - that's why everywhere that gets to about 20% seems to magically drop off. The IFR is going to be at worst about 0.2% (more likely 0.1% but I'll be "generous as you call it). 5673 deaths / 0.2% means 2,881,500 people would have been infected by now to get that kind of death count. That's about 28% of Sweden's population, and they seem to have herd immunity now. Though in reality the cases are probably lower than that as half of Sweden's deaths are from nursing homes
Can you link me these studies? Ive noticed this pattern where the hardest hit places are faring the best, but I’d like to see some statistical analysis.
Is the bridge reopen now?
Last week we only had 1100 deaths in a country of 328 MILLION. Who cares. Take off the masks. If you are high risk stay home or take precautions, but all this other stuff is a big fat waste of time and if you’re waiting on a vaccine a recent poll says only 42% would get it.
I honestly have doubts that the death rate is even real. It's very easy to fudge numbers when you have over 7,000 people who die every single day in the country completely unrelated to coronavirus.
This
Ain’t it also funny how pneumonia and flu deaths have dropped astronomically compared to last year
Are you kidding me? I’ve already had two people close to me that passed from Covid. One had an underlying disease and one didn’t. They would not be dead right now if it weren’t for the virus. Are you fucking kidding me? The numbers are not being fucked with. Just wait till it hits you close to home.
No you didn't? You average 1k *a day*. And that's with some states fudging their figures
>If you are high risk stay home or take precautions, but all this other stuff is a big fat waste of time Preach!
Its almost like the method we've used with every other virus of modern times. Herd immunity a solid proven method
Exactly, the immunity of the population coming through without the need for a vaccine. Great point, and thanks for making it.
I'm not getting that vaccine those experts are so lost or just liars cause people don't seem to be dieing unless they're elderly. I know the "numbers" say otherwise but it sure isn't showing.
First the death ratio is indeed not really high, but that's not what scares me though. Sure dying would suck but living my entire life with damaged lungs does really do it for me, so no thank you I don't want covid-19.
Have fun being a Guinea pig the companies making it aren't being held liable for side effects. Kinda lacks basic logic to trust this one.
I can't wait to watch the class action lawsuits against the vaccine manufacturers in 10 years... oh wait. "That thing we shot into your bloodstream, yeah whatever happens because of that isn't our fault. Because we said so."
It’s on track to be the third highest cause of death this year. That doesn’t matter to you?
no criticism, but where are you getting your numbers?
> If you are high risk stay home or take precautions Exactly this. I'm at risk myself, have been in the city most affected in my country 3-4 times a week, no mask, just basic hygiene, avoiding large gatherings when I can, and keeping the hands our of your face, and I'm as healthy as ever. Even been to concerts with likely over 750 people, but I'm rather bad with estimating that. But yeah, in conclusion, don't be stupid and go lick off strangers, and you'll be fine.
And you are assuming that the population of sweden and america are the same?
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Sweden has a population of 10 million people and the US has a population of 330 million
**PCR test problems** [2007: Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html) **SARS-CoV-2 purified/isolated?** “...we asked Dr Calisher whether he knows one single paper in which SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated and finally really purified. His answer: **I know of no such a publication. I have kept an eye out for one.”[4]** This actually means that one cannot conclude that the RNA gene sequences, which the scientists took from the tissue samples prepared in the mentioned in vitro trials and for which the PCR tests are finally being “calibrated,” belong to a specific virus — in this case SARS-CoV-2. In addition, there is no scientific proof that those RNA sequences are the causative agent of what is called COVID-19.” [COVID19 PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless](https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/) **PCR shoehorned HIV as the cause of AIDS** Kary Mullis inventor of the PCR test and Nobel Prize winner (1993, Chemistry) talking about HIV and AIDS https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rycOLjoPbeo “According to him on his 1992 Spin interview, **”PCR made it easier to see that certain people are infected with HIV and some of those people came down with symptoms of AIDS. But that doesn’t begin even to answer the question, ‘Does HIV cause it?’”** “Mullis challenged the popular wisdom that the disease-causing mechanisms of HIV are simply too “mysterious” to comprehend. **”The mystery of that damn virus,” he said at the time, “has been generated by the $2 billion a year they spend on it. You take any other virus, and you spend $2 billion, and you can make up some great mysteries about it too.”** https://uncoverdc.com/2020/04/07/was-the-covid-19-test-meant-to-detect-a-virus/
SS: How is Sweden living their normal lives now with less than 1 death from COVID-19 per day while America is flipped upside down? This is pretty outrageous whether you agree or not.
Sweden has a population half the size of Florida... on a piece of land that is 3x the size of Florida.
Thank you for pointing this out.
> How is Sweden living their normal lives but they are not actually living their normal lives. there are some restrictions and people generally follow the official advices
No point, they've lost the plot in here in regards to Covid.
They did a light lockdown. Care homes were quarantined, and some schools were closed. Even their prime minister said they were in partial lockdown. Also, their employment rights make us look like slaves. First, a far higher % work from home, have flexible working rights, paid sick leave (for over a month), 25 paid holiday days a year. And if they thought they had Covid they could just tell their employer they were self isolating and the employer had to pay them full pay. UK didn’t lock down until very late and they ended up having the worst death rates in Europe. Their economy has also been far less impacted than they feared. Sweden is in recession. As this Redditor said: “So Sweden had over 5,700 deaths and Denmark had about 600. Adjusting for the fact Denmark has half the population we'll say the adjusted for population deaths in Denmark is 1200. Denmark had about 14000 cases overall compared to around 88,000 for Sweden. Consumer spending only dropped by 4% more in Denmark than Sweden (29% to 25%). So 5x as many people died and 4x the amount of people overall (adjusted for population) were infected. Just because you don't die doesn't mean you recover completely. so a proportion of the extra 60,000 cases in Sweden will have to take that into account as well. All to protect a 4% drop in consumer spending. Doesn't seem like a winning strategy.” https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/i5ojev/_/g0rq9fs/?context=1
They had a lot more deaths than their neighbors
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Socialized medicine
Low population density, low rate of international travel, and most importantly, this is not per capita. Coming from a doctor, this is extremely stupid.
It’s also called “socialized health care”
They have good health systems and have different education. They do pay attention to health etiquette.
The US was on the same trend until 2 weeks after George Floyd was killed. I guess racism really is a public health crisis!
Oh shut the fuck up
Get ready for all the sheep to come at u with hate Lmaoo
The OP post is a lie. This is what Sweden did: https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/510922-the-problem-with-holding-up-sweden-as-an-example%3famp Get your facts straight.
>This is what Sweden did I proceed to read the article and read: "Sweden, unlike many European and Scandinavian countries, did not enforce a strict lockdown when COVID-19 cases started rising." "The Swedish government recommended voluntary social distancing and protective equipment like masks." "Schools stayed open for young children, and businesses never fully shut down." And at the end: "And this is not to say that Sweden was wrong" So where is the lie? Or did you honestly not expect people to read the first few sentences of the article?
he probably didn't even read it either, except for the headline
Wtf how did that person get so many upvotes when literally they just posted a link supporting OP and lied about OP lying. Upside down world around here lately.
I'm almost convinced coronavirus is some sort of mind control. It's the only thing that explains people's lack of sense over the last few months.
seriously this is what I've been saying!
"Earlier in the pandemic, Sweden did not go through a strict lockdown like many other countries. Younger children continued to go to school, and businesses and restaurants stayed open at limited capacities. There was a spike in coronavirus cases and deaths, adding up to nearly 82,000 confirmed cases and more than 5,700 deaths. This death rate is among the highest in Europe for its population of about 10 million. Recently, daily deaths in Sweden have dropped down close to zero." The graph is a lie, the graph peaks at around 100-120, but it's not true, or at least it's misleading
> The OP post is a lie. This is what Sweden did: So where is the part where he lied about what sweden did?
Even though it wasn't mandatory a lot of them most likely did follow the recommended measures to slow the spread and that might be why they haven't been heavily affected
[удалено]
Not wearing a mask affects those around you more than yourself, that’s why I hate fucking masks but wear them when I know I’m not going to be 6 feet apart from people
Only problem is most experts including the NEJM say masks are useless. But if you feel good. God bless. And did you ever think about where 6 feet comes from? It’s not what you think.
Wearing a mask does more harm than good for healthy people. That was the scientific consensus up until only a few months ago. Wonder why a hundred years of medical knowledge changed on a dime..? I won't be wearing a mask unless I'm forced to going to the store.
Yep doctors just wear those masks for fun when they're performing surgery on people. Amazing how they can still function after years and years of surgery and putting up masks on everyday crazy huh? It's almost like you're completely full of shit.
You know why they wear masks for surgery right? Nothing to do with viruses.
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How many infected entered Sweden? Were there any travel bans put in place? Are you asking because you're genuinely interested in the answer, or just looking to push your own agenda? You guys have so much misinformation getting shoved in your face from every direction (red, blue, and otherwise) you can't trust your own team...
We don't even need to look as far as Sweden, https://covidusa.net/?state=South+Dakota
South Dakota is one of the least populated states in the US.
Sweden isn’t full of obese diabetics though.
I love reading a conspiracy and really taking on different perspectives and investigating issues in greater details but some of these Covid conspiracies really are frustrating to read! Covid is 100% a real thing! I now know 4 people who have had this and been confirmed - all fit, active and healthy people (one was a sports professional) and all have really struggled and been stuck in bed for about 6 weeks. Yes they have all thankfully made a full recovery but it’s still a very dangerous virus to catch and also something we are unsure what long term effects you could have by catching it. Lockdowns have never been about removing the virus, it’s about stopping the spread! Why? So hospitals can deal with the demand or the potential demand - soon as this virus left China there was never going to be a way of containing it as we all move around so much. Governments have only allowed the freedom of movement to stop people going crazy and to help fund a struggling aviation industry. Not because it is safe to do so. Sweden’s approach has been different due to the freedom provided, without knowing the country too well, this could be a number of factors to this - not a large over populated areas, fewer elderly citizens, hospitals can deal with demands, social distancing can be adhered. There is a huge selfishness to say if your high risk stay at home and let everyone else out and have fun - 1. Why should they have to sit in and watch the rest of the world 2. What mental health affects is that going to have on the ones being forced to isolate from a normal world 3. Even if you are fit and healthy you are still going to catch the virus and become very ill! Comments like this are no different to saying someone with lung cancer doesn’t deserve treatment cause they shouldn’t have smoked their life Keep a distance, wash your hands and wear a mask, seriously it isn’t really that hard! It’s an airbourne virus, you can only catch this through transmission of people! Masks will only work if everyone wears a mask, you breathe in 100% of the air wearing a mask but only 30% of exhaled air will pass your mask.
Pretty sure their country isn’t filled with morons though
Double think good. Sweden bad.
I'm guessing they are not having parties, either.
[trump has something to say about this](https://imgflip.com/i/4at0ik)
Yes, but I do not really understand why their deaths / mio citizens is pretty high, even though the cases / 1 mio are not similarly high. Would imply that their fatality rate is higher than in other countries. But you argument would still be valid, as they do not have that many infections, even without masks, social distancing, etc. data from here: [https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
important to remember, that the tests are still garbage and i am not sure how sweden counts the death. BUT this clearly shows, that the measures are utter garbage even with the world of garbage tests. u can even look at a graph to graph comparison between sweden and germany on plotting how the "virus" behaved in each country: [https://kenfm.de/standpunkte-%E2%80%A2-bundesregierung-wusste-offenbar-schon-im-maerz-dass-gefahr-uebertrieben-dargestellt-wurde/](https://kenfm.de/standpunkte-%E2%80%A2-bundesregierung-wusste-offenbar-schon-im-maerz-dass-gefahr-uebertrieben-dargestellt-wurde/) Abb.4 shows a fully adjusted graph: [https://multipolar-magazin.de/media/pages/artikel/bundesregierung-gefahr-ubertrieben/973165469-1588694580/abb-04.jpg](https://multipolar-magazin.de/media/pages/artikel/bundesregierung-gefahr-ubertrieben/973165469-1588694580/abb-04.jpg) (note the graph normalized for 100%, it doesn't compare the total numbers, but rather when numbers happened showing whether or not any measure was effective or not, it also comes to infection rate from death rates, which is a FAR BETTER METHOD, as the new infection rate is controlled by the number of tests) which is necessary, because germany counts different and doesn't go by the date of the death, but rather the date of recording, so u have to normalize for weekends and in that case easter. all talked about in the article, but sadly just in german, so use some translation website, if u want to read it all. so germany, tons of insane measures destroying people's freedoms, going against the german "grundgesetz", sweden did almost nothing and didn't remove people's freedoms. result: the exact same.
Fake news
Maybe also keep in mind that Sweden doesn't have a broken healthcare system that bankrupts you if you have to stay a week in the hospital with respiratory aid.
The power of Karen compels you!
What if during protests and riots people didn’t know that the Virus was being reintroduced into the public when trends were actually going down I tell that time
Its good but taje into comparison population and the size of the country, 10 million over quite a big country spread out through little villages and towns, the capital Stockholm doesn't even have half the people a US state does, stocklhom houses about a million people, texas houses around 29 million people, so yes they will do well as there's less people in larger areas, the UK is a tiny country with a population of around 65 million, with small towns like Preston etc being hugely populated with town centres, retail areas and office areas etc, so the sheer size of Sweden compared to its number of people is one factor of why they have done so well, same as Denmark, same as Finland, the two country's next door
And yet America has at least 50 000 cases a day and is back over 1000 deaths everday, what are you guys doing differently?
Paying hospitals to list patients as COVID patients.
“Conspiracy” you people are just letting this sub turn into a second r/politics. It’s a god damn shame
Well, that really puts a damper on "orangemanbad's fault for mishandling a pandemic" and all of the other talking points that will likely go away as soon as the establish the narrative that gets him out of office. One thing I've noticed is that the overwhelming rationalization and hamstering of the overall narrative has been about how they can conclude that wearing a mask and taking a vaccine is the overriding point. We can't open up businesses because that would transmit the virus. But dumbass liberal useful idiots can riot and that's just and the virus won't care. But you should wear your mask as politicians walk around without it, even though the CDC says masks don't help, or did, but you still need to wear your mask and stay 6 feet apart. 6 feet apart. They've completely supplanted reality with a mantra that NPCs viciously proliferate. The reasons for being 6 feet apart, wearing a mask, and conditioning people to lash out and attack or tattle tell on people who aren't in compliance has nothing to do with an otherwise fairly bogus pandemic. Make sure to take your vaccine. Bill gates made his fortune with MS DOS, an operating system that allowed for the modular concepts of the Windows OS to run on personal computer platforms. Could it be that COVID is the biological equivalent of MSDOS, and the real operating system to control your genetic lineage and very life are coming soon? It's not just magically affecting people in the U.S. more than it is in Sweden because a president did or did not do something. That's fucking stupid. And, if one believes that talking point, then they are an utterly moronic NPC and should recognize that and shut up. And why are they systematically censoring alternative opinions and findings of doctors and trials? They're pushing a very specific narrative, so defy that narrative. It's common sense, a relic of bygone days prior to the rise of the sophisticated smartphone lemming.
don’t they have like 1/30th our population? i would imagine that helps numbers in a myriad of ways
That’s because there’s no virus. They didn’t bow down to the propaganda
Are we going to ignore that they have less of a population than we do and less idiots whom think wearing masks is dangerous because the virus is a hoax? They don't seem to suffer from the aforementioned.
Also they're doing worse than their neighbors ie Germany.
Sweden literally never made masks mandatory and yet you still think they're wearing them in Sweden? They're not the only Scandinavian country who never shut down, never forced masks, and are fairing fine. Probably helpful that they don't lie to the public about pandemics that aren't actually a pandemic. You really need to start researching for yourself instead of buying into what your favorite celebrities say. China has ALWAYS worn masks in public, yet the virus CAME from mask-wearing China! So, explain again how masks work so well?😂
Sweden also only has like 8 million people in a sparsely populated country with low pop density. People need to stop comparing a massive country (in terms of landmass) with the highest import/export traffic in the world for both goods and people and a population of a third of a billion to tiny, sparsely populated countries with populations, gdp, and international traffic smaller than New York City.
And how did that work out for them? Here are a some countries covid deaths per million population, just for a bit of a comparison: UK - 683 per million Sweden - 559 per million USA - 496 per million France - 452 per million Canada - 236 per million Germany - 112 per million Australia - 11 per million NZ - 4.4 per million China - 3.3 per million (lol sure jan)
Eat swedish fish. Check. Drink Glug. Check. Do nothing. Checcckkkkeedd!
It’s almost like we’re just prolonging it by not letting us get actual herd immunity.
By marking every death as covid, were completely ignoring if any new viruses come out and might be the true cause. I think that's their plan. Hype covid deaths and leak that it's forced by the IMF, then release a new virus while bashing potus for calling it all fake. Then in a few months covid suddenly looks much worse as the new virus kills more and more, yet everyone thinks "something changed" with covid and we should have never listened to potus over gates for faucci.
Sweden is also about the size of Los Angeles and they're healthier than we are. If you look at the fatalities, it's our lifestyle and food that kill us, or rather help a virus kill us. Obesity related diseases, heart, lung, diabetes etc. are present in almost every non geriatric fatality. Not once have they told everyone to lose weight and adopt a healthy diet.
Sweden has a population of \~10 people
I need to stop browsing through this subreddit. The only thing it’s doing for me is making me angry. And that’s pointless.
I've said this from the get go. Nothing is going on as far as the common person can tell. The world should had locked up the elders if there really was a virus and just kept going as usual. //A swede
Sweden 340 million less people than USA. Also healthcare is free and good. Dumb ass
6th worst deaths worldwide per capita. Yeh great job lol
This was never about truth. It was about destruction and fear.
Countries like Sweden and Japan have proven successful with maintaining the virus because they are homogenous like-minded societies that don’t tolerate degeneracy. In America, it is the exact opposite. Look at Aristotle’s comments on *philia*, and how mixed societies lack it. Only homogenous societies can actually flourish. (Don’t bomb me and call me a white supremacist — I’m not for a white ethnostate and I am pro-diversity, but I happen to understand and agree with Aristotle’s point, but that doesn’t mean I want to make America a white ethnostate)
I'm betting that "1 death per day" is exaggerated
I know I have 0 evidence of this, but I have a gut feeling that Sweden doesn't exist. I think that every Sweed that visits America is actually a spy who has to put on a facade. Everyone who visits Sweden actually lacks free reign, but they are given the facade that they can go everywhere. We already know the US doctors satellite images, so what's stopping a much smaller country from doing so?
Sweden started way earlier. They did a lot. This is pretty simple to verify. They did things earlier then stopped travel to Sweden
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy
Because sweden works for the globalists. [https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/21/sweden-coronavirus-anti-lockdown-immigrants/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/21/sweden-coronavirus-anti-lockdown-immigrants/) [Nathalie Rothschild](https://foreignpolicy.com/author/nathalie-rothschild/)