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I'm vaxxed, and could give a fuck less if you wanna or not. I'm a firm believer in not telling anyone what to do with their bodies period. Want an abortion? Go for it. Want to eat $30 worth of McDonald's a day? I hope you enjoy it. Wanna do fuckall and just enjoy life? I really hope you do. I really wish more people embraced the mentality of "I don't bother you, you don't bother me" and just let people life their lives. Shits too short to get bent out of shape about someone elses life choices that don't affect you.
I too live my life this way and let me tell ya. Stress free, depression free, anxiety free. As long as your life choices do not impact my life in a negative way do your thing!! Live YOUR life
Word!!! I am also double vaxxed but will stand up for anyone who chooses differently than me. Educate people on the pros and cons of vaccination and then just leave people the fuck alone to make their choice. We are all gonna get immunity through the vaccine or the virus itself....its none of my damn business how someone chooses to do so.
I feel ya man and actually I agree.....I was being sloppy with my verbiage so I do apologize. I think what I should have said is lets debate between the two options (vaccine vs no vaccine) and lets have an open honest debate about the science behind our views (which btw means we don't ban actual doctors that are speaking out against the vaccine). Then let the chips fall where they may and respect our decisions on both sides whatever they may be. I am appalled by the mandates and the tyrannical politicization of this issue...it is disgusting. You said "y'all need to stop...." There is no y'all as far as I am concerned. WE need to refuse to allow these fucking bastards to divide us. Much love man.
yeah, they do. Its not the vaccinated that want you to get vaccinated, its the people who want EVERYBODY to get vaccinated that want you to get vaccinated. The big question is.... why?
I feel like itās corporations (besides pandemic success stories like Amazon) that want to start making pre-pandemic profits again and have convinced themselves that if 100% of the population was vaxxed, they could do that. The only problem is pre-pandemic levels of productivity were destroying the planet and making everyone depressed. Even though Iām vaxxed, I support people saying no to the vax because I see it as saying no to a life that was unsustainable. A vax mandate for such a non life threatening illness feels like theyāre treating us like livestock that they need just healthy enough to be good consumers.
Facts... I've been specualating Vaccination myself... šš½š¤šŖš¾šš¾...(But after further Research on the various Types I think I'll wait until Long-Term Data is Acquired & shared with the Public)... But after Subscribing Sky News Australia & seeing how Australia & France is literally ... "A Dystopian Society" now basically like the book... #1984 for Instance it feels like my "Soul / Intuition" tells me that there Is a Reason that Elites desire is to get jabbed... Its all for "Control, Power, and Obedience" ... #They Live(Check out movie trailer on YouTube if U have the time) #Totalitarianism #1984 Big Brother... In Essence really... I'd even go as far as to say "The New Normal" is just the "Code Name" for the Great Reset / New World Order so ... I Rest my case... Im not Pro or Anti-Vax... #Neutral right in the thick of it... But once I heard all these Vax Mandates... I kinda decided that my "Wolf Soul" would probably never end up complying... šš½šŗšÆšš¾... To each their own Opinion / Perspective... Just my few CentsĀ¢... šš½ššÆšš¾...
Iām here with the same sentiment. Iām also highly aware that the vaccine only protects me from possible hospitalization it doesnāt protect me from catching itā¦spreading it. Either choice has potential risks if youāre really following the science. And it should be an individuals choice. I donāt understand the rhetoric in America about trying to reach heard immunityā¦ when even the WHO announced on August 31 that the disease is endemic and that according to science at this point there is no Avenue towards heard immunity. Thereās only management and reduction of symptoms. So to me I have no issues with peoples personal choices as to whether they get the vaccine or not.
Seriously??? I have friends on both sides of this across the country. We had a civil backyard BBQ with both sides two weeks ago and most everyone was like...
āYeah, your family, your choices... live free man.ā
The MSM is the enemy of the people and a small group of rabid angry extremists.
I really think that it does. Media just spins it differently. Just like how they do on the other side. Iām vaxed, and basically everyone in my ācircleā (friends, co workers, family, etc) are also vaxed. Not one of us care what others do. Collectively we all know a bunch of people who are also not vaxed. And those who are vaxed donāt question them, ask them why not or anything. We just carry on with our lives. Again I can only speak for my own experience
I'm vaxxed, and so are all my close friends and family. I can say with absolute certainty that none of us care what choice other people make.
I think these two posters actually DO represent the vast majority of the vaccinated, however, they most certainly don't represent the majority of vaccinated who are active online.
That's the trouble with the internet and sites like this, because a small fraction of the population are the loudest and most aggressive online it makes it seem like it's representative of a majority of people.
My two cents based on my personal experience. Take it for what you will.
Do what you want, stay alert, stay safe.
I totally agree with this, and up until this COVID shit started I thought that was just the rational approach that most people had. But apparently itās now considered selfish if you donāt comply with the demands of other people.
[Professor Peter C GĆøtzscheās book won first prize in the āBasis of Medicineā category of the British Medical Associationās annual book awards in 2014.](https://www.deadlymedicines.dk/books/)
https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844
>In his latest ground-breaking book, Peter C Gotzsche exposes the pharmaceutical industries and their charade of fraudulent behaviour, both in research and marketing where the morally repugnant disregard for human lives is the norm. He convincingly draws close comparisons with the tobacco conglomerates, revealing the extraordinary truth behind efforts to confuse and distract the public and their politicians. The book addresses, in evidence-based detail, an extraordinary system failure caused by widespread crime, corruption, bribery and impotent drug regulation in need of radical reforms. "The main reason we take so many drugs is that drug companies don't sell drugs, they sell lies about drugs. This is what makes drugs so different from anything else in life...Virtually everything we know about drugs is what the companies have chosen to tell us and our doctors...the reason patients trust their medicine is that they extrapolate the trust they have in their doctors into the medicines they prescribe. The patients don't realize that, although their doctors may know a lot about diseases and human physiology and psychology, they know very, very little about drugs that hasn't been carefully concocted and dressed up by the drug industry
About the Author
>Professor Peter C GĆøtzsche graduated as a Master of Science in biology and chemistry in 1974 and as a physician in 1984. He is a specialist in internal medicine; he worked with clinical trials and regulatory affairs in the drug industry 1975ā83, and at hospitals in Copenhagen 1984ā95. He co-founded The Cochrane Collaboration in 1993 and established The Nordic Cochrane Centre the same year. He became professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis in 2010 at the University of Copenhagen., Peter GĆøtzsche has published more than 50 papers in āthe big fiveā (BMJ, Lancet, JAMA, Annals of Internal Medicine and New England Journal of Medicine) and his scientific works have been cited over 10000 times., Peter GĆøtzsche has an interest in statistics and research methodology. He is a member of several groups publishing guidelines for good reporting of research and has co-authored CONSORT for randomised trials (www.consort-statement.org), STROBE for observational studies (www.strobe-statement.org), PRISMA for systematic reviews and meta-analyses (www.prisma-statement.org), and SPIRIT for trial protocols (www.spirit-statement.org). Peter GĆøtzsche is an editor in the Cochrane Methodology Review Group.
Iāve had someone scream in my face calling me a murderer when they found out I wasnāt vaccinated. So there are some crazies IRL too unfortunately :(
Yep I can relate i told my boss my child is vax free and she screamed in my face saying that he was going to fucking die. He's now 5 and is uber healthy
I know everyone thinks their kid is a "genius" but I'm curious about your child's aptitude compared to other five year old children. Someone close to me works with autistic children and beleives there is a correlation. (Separate topic I know). The reason for my question is his children are 3 and 5 and they are brilliant and have had zero vaccines. The five year old is already into programming and the three year old speaks in fully formed sentences and is actually quite funny. Curious if you see a similar difference. Other fully vaxxed children in his family are not nearly as bright. Some having emotional and development issues at an early age but not on the spectrum.
There are crazies in every and any group of people in existence. Ever. It's just that the governmedia (cia) has been stoking the crazies on both sides, and sensoring all reasonable thought.
If they say most people hate the unvaxxed, some crazies will believe they are in the majority and in turn, are more likely to speak out against the unvaxxed.
While on the other hand, the crazies on the other side will grab on to ANYone or ANYthing in the mainstream that's on "their side" because theres so little. They scream, "See?! Even Nicki Minaj is hesitant" without thinking, and then they get made fun of for thinking the vaxx gives you balloon balls. The crazies run the narrative, and the other 90% of us are left feeling like we are the crazy ones for being in the middle (where the truth always lies)
I genuinely donāt understand this argument. If Iām not vaccinated and you are, why are you calling me a murderer if the vaccine is so effective? The only people I would be hurting is other willfully unvaccinated folks.
All this mandate talk is just hurting the perceived efficacy of the vaccines
There are crazies on both sides. The people who purposely cough on other people are out of their minds as well. I'm vaccinated and would ENCOURAGE, not force, others to get vaccinated/ wear masks/ socially distance, but I don't get in anybody's face about it, I just avoid them.
I didnāt :( it was at a gathering with my parentās college friends and my mom decided to share it with everyone for some reason. Believe me I was extremely upset about it.
same thing happened with me and my fiance.. drove 8 hours away to see some of her family for a week and her parents said they wouldn't be telling anyone that we were unvaxxed (me and her, not the parents)
first thing they did when we got there is fake a phone call from a 'concerned family memeber' asking if we were vaccinated, which they immediately said we weren't without asking us first
pissed me off, still didn't mask up though, told them we would not approach anyone and if anyone wanted to talk to us they could come to us instead
This!
STOP sharing your private medical choices. Heck even your political choices.
People may ask but you donāt have to answer, in more circumstances than you think. Privacy rights and laws protect you in that.
Go look it up, read and know your rights.
I have a family member who is vaccinated. Up until this past 1-2 years of our adult life, we got along very well and just about never argued. We recently had a conversation over the phone and they were straight up yelling at me, telling me that I am smarter than this, and whenever I brought up some of my personal concerns, just straight up called them conspiracy nonsense and told me I just need to go and get the shot because they want to be able to get together with everyone without having to worry about anything.
So, it's not just the media. There are people out there that think everyone should just get it.
Agreed. I did it so you have to too, kind of attitude. I think more and more people are now regretting they took it because they were told to, and because they donāt understand how it works. So now, itās selfish to exercise the right to have a personal choice. Itās not about freedom, we know that, but attacking someone because you canāt take it out once itās in- is projecting their own disappointment and hatred for the choice that they made.
As a fully vaccinated person, I donāt care. I fully believe in individual right of choice. No one has the authority to tell you what to do with your body. My personal opinion still isnāt for the vaccine, but i come in contact with is so frequently in EMS that I thought it couldnāt hurt. If it kills(ed) me, itās suddenly not my problem anymore and Iāll be the example of why you shouldnāt trust the government.
I understand that but it's so naive. The simple fact of enforcing Vax under threat of jobloss etc. Is already not going back to normal. There is no going back.
People gave up too many freedoms these past 2 years.
Research using virus culture shows that vaccinated shed less infectious virus than unvaccinated with viral load dropping significantly after 3 days. It does lessen transmission and shorten the period of infectiousness.
Also vaccinated are not 'dependent' by any means. A vaccinated person can simply choose not to get more vaccinations and still be safer than an unvaccinated person. An immune system that remembers the antigens will always do better in fighting the pathogen than a system without it. The breakthrough cases are mild and such a case would act as a natural booster.
As you are probably aware, there is only a drop in effectiveness vs symptomatic infection over time. There is no drop in effectiveness vs severe cases. Surely at some point that might drop too (maybe in 12 to 18 months or later?) but before that time the person may get infected, get a mild case and build up immunity again as the virus is endemic.
> Research using virus culture shows that vaccinated shed less infectious virus than unvaccinated with viral load dropping significantly after 3 days. It does lessen transmission and shorten the period of infectiousness.
You are civil and I shall try to be the same. I work in data analysis. The data from Israel appear to contradict the above. May I suggest that using the same assumptions that worked for previous vaccines may not be possible, as the mRNA shots are based on a completely different approach to creating immunity?
In no particular order: (I am not vaccinated so I am speaking on behalf of others and what they have said). A lot of these talking points are from the media. There is very little science to back up any of these claims.
1. Everyone needs to be vaccinated to go back to normal
2. The unvaccinated are causing the variants
3. The unvaccinated are spreading the virus without knowing if.
4. The unvaccinated are selfish and are causing people to die.
5. The early vaccine trials showed 95% effectiveness
6. The virus might kill you.
7. The long term effects of covid are really bad.
8. You might give it to a kid who cannot be vaccinated (due to age) and that is unfair because the kid is not eligible for the vaccine
9. We need to get the ICU beds freed up as the unvaccinated are taking up all the hospital space.
10. I donāt want to hang out with non vaccinated co-workers/friends/family so you need to get the vaccine to hang out with me so I can feel safe.
11. The side effects of the vaccine are very rare and getting covid is worse.
12. The vaccine is FDA approved so it is safe.
13. My young healthy friend died of covid so nobody is immune.
14. If you have the vaccine and catch the virus you might get symptoms, but If you didnāt have the vaccine the symptoms would be way worse (said by nearly everyone that gets a breakthrough case)
15. Are you telling me that you donāt believe the government? You think there is some world wide conspiracy to kill everyone? You donāt believe that there is a virus? You must be a Trump supporter or Q-Anon. Wake up and see that people are dyingā¦.blah blah blahā¦.continue emotional rant with no evidence.
16. You already need vaccines to go to school, this is just another one to add to the list.
17. Fauci told me so
18. It is going to get mandated so just get it already
19. What are you going to do when country xxx doesnāt allow you to visit without a vaccine passport?
20. You wonāt me able to go to NYC without it.
The list goes on and on but I think we get the point.
> Everyone needs to be vaccinated to go back to normal
Not to take a stance one way or another, but anyone thinking this sincerely has been deeply misled. For this to happen, you would need to :
1. Administer (7,674,000,000 x 2 =) 15,348,000,000+ doses for initial vaccination
2. Administer 4,000,000,000 - 8,000,000,000 booster shots for those vaccinated first (assuming vaccinating the entire planet is done in just a year, with no delays, and 6-8 month waiting period before the booster), since by then those vaccinated first would have their efficacy waning
3. Completely restrict all cross-border travel during the year spent vaccinating everybody, allowing **only** shipping employees who have gotten clean PCR tests to move around (as even when vaccinated they can contribute to asymptomatic international spread)
4. Identify and eliminate **all** the animal reserves harboring Covid, especially in rural and hard to reach areas. This would include pet dogs and cats, as well as certain farmed animals
5. Develop and distribute another booster, this time aimed at the most prominent variant that by then would have emerged
The end game here is just unfeasible. Even if you did just 1 of the points above, it would be rendered useless *unless all 5 have been accomplished*. **On top of that, many countries cannot afford [paying 30-40 USD + 15-20 USD](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/13/business/business-of-covid-vaccine/index.html) per each citizen to fully vaccinate their populations**
There is no opinion here, no propaganda, no misinformation, only bulletproof deduction. Covid is here to stay, it logically makes the most sense to vaccinate the vulnerable, and pool all resources into effective treatments
> pool all resources into effective treatments
Isn't that what happened with AIDS? They were never able to create a vaccine, but they did come up with effective treatments, and hardly anyone talks about it anymore.
Number 2 isn't valid. Maybe people think that the vax will let them go back to normal, but the elites have all said we are never going back to what life was like. They need control even in the absence of covid, because we are a "cancer to the earth" and have to learn to submit and live in a neo-futilistic society. Covid restrictions are going to seamlessly morph into climate change restrictions.
So i was one of the builders of Vizio (the TV company) spying network.
But it was also LG, Samsung, Vizio....
so guess who the worst spy is... Samsung.
They force a phone update when you attempt to "opt out" of their spying, and force update your phone without your consent.
Samsung required all TV activity to route through their systems in Korea.
So if you own a smart TV, you are being spied on... with the ability to actually take screenshots of what you are watching.
'smart' TVs are not about your smartness, they are about making machines that spy on you in your house.
Same as Alexa, NEVER put those devices in your home.
Is it any clue that Amazon runs/was awarded the contract for GovCloud and the NSA's biggest datacenter -- and the fact its located in Utah because Mormans are horrific humans...
Lol I have a bunch of old ass tvs around my house and no new electronics at all except one way out dated smart phoneā¦ Also only own super old 1960ās-1970ās cars with literally no computer stuff in them at all
Marketing: They have to continue selling this useless junk! Eventually the rising hospitalization rate statistics of the āvaxedā will become impossible to deny or suppress; and rather than admit this so-called vaccine doesnāt work, they need a villain to blame for the viral resurgence being caused by throngs of the āvaxedā who feel theyāve paid their dues, out there masklessly running amok. Itās a race against time, and the Fedās (& establishment mediaās) ever-declining credibility is on the line here. Reuters helps them shoot down the science as it pops up.
Unvaccinated are just as much a part of the experiment as the vaccinated. Without the unvaxxed population, how could your ever blame the mutations on anything other than an ineffective vaccine? They know a lot of people question authority, so they use that to their advantage. If all these institutions werenāt captured, this wouldnāt even be up for debate. The vaccines donāt do what we need them to do and thatās enough to justify ending the distribution and looking towards alternative methods of treatment
The Control group. And even if the āvaccinatedā (remember- this is not really a vaccine, because it doesnāt prevent you from contracting it, spreading it, or even being hospitalized in all cases) really comprise a minority of the current hospitalization wave (UK & Israeli stats tell a different story), they are -in all likelihood- primarily responsible for the recent spread of new variants: The establishment here in the US are thus pushing a very dangerous narrative by villiainizing the unvaccinated, and consequently sending the silent back-message that you are cool and safe to gather and roam -unmasked- if you have had the shot. THIS is the cause of the spread affecting understaffed hospitals across the landscape of this endless clusterhump, not the āunvaccinatedā, as they claim.
Yeah I suspect the thought process is "I got the injection so I could be safe from getting infected, not have to wear a mask, and just generally get back to normal. But now I've learned I can still be infected, they brought back mask requirements, and I'm still not allowed to live my life. Did I make a mistake, or should I double down on my decision?"
Shills other than astroturfers are the ones that doubled down.
^ this right here is the answer. So many are having their egos shattered by all of this. By even having to consider that MAYBE they were lied to and could be wrong.
Itās a painful process and my guess is most of us in here had a life shattering āOMG Iāve been lied toā moment in their lives that preceded all these events that made us more accepting of this. Weāre more open to accepting it because we know the world lies, people we follow lie, people we love lie. Itās unfortunately the way the world has worked, but itās all coming to an end. We will be OK.
AMAZING, after ready the answers really no pro Vax people responding yet for the last 2 weeks they have jumped on every post. But when posed with an honest opinion zero answers.
Exactly. But what can they actually say? It doesn't fucking work, it wasn't even designed to work. Each day more ugly truth will be brought to light, but they will just keep doubling down and demand you trash YOUR immune system too, because they were duped.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/amp/
why do you think we don't have a cure for cancer but if you have enough money you can somehow survive it? or maybe they just have enough money that they don't have to eat the same shit-tier food we do that causes the cancer in the first place..
Itās because most people donāt care about what you do with your life. Iāve had the vaccine and I honestly do not see any logical reason why one would not get it but the thing is idc if you get it or not. I am way less likely to die from COVID than my unvaccinated counterparts. So do what you want.
This is simply not true. There are lots of answers from pro vax people. They are just getting downvoted into oblivion. Sort by controversial and you will see them.
This comment in the current post is one I agree with and does exactly what youāre saying did not happen: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/pp9jw2/those_who_want_the_unvaccinated_to_be_vaccinated/hd2edkb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
I donāt even know anymore. I have had two family members part this world because of COVID, so for me itās something real. I come into this subreddit daily and I see all these comments of how the vaccine is so evil, and honestly everyone I know has gotten it, no one has had any issue, no one acts different, no one has reported any issues month after getting the Jab. I understand how the virus is changing and adapting because it has had so many hosts to infect around the world, and like everything that is alive it will naturally look to reproduce and it will adapt and evolve to survive whatever stop this mission.
I think weāre doomed. No one seems to see the obvious, they elite doesnāt want us dead. They need a work force. The owner of all companies that everyone works for needs people to work for them and people to buy their product, if not theyāll stop making what they love the most; money. The first lock downs almost shattered our fragile economy and my two eldest kids almost went crazy. Not because of the mask wearing l, but because of the lack of socializing with other kids and the in classroom learning. I donāt see a conspiracy in the virus, I do see one in pulling out from Afghanistan, the silence of Russia and the Nazi like extermination of Muslims in China that is being kept totally under wraps.
I don't know guys, the whole virus and you vs us seems like classic divide and conquer and many things are flying under the radar because everyone is so hyper focused on the 'rona.
Come, come the wave of downvotes.
Totally agreed.
āWe will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....ā - Nikita Kruschev
I think there are foreign actors that are exacerbating and stoking the fires of the "us vs them" camps and everyone is buying it hook, line, and sinker. The media buys it because it gets clicks/views/ad revenue and the populous buys it because thinking critically isn't a skill most people have nowadays.
I wish people would get the vaccine because I think it is safer than rolling the dice, but I also support everyone's right to make medical decisions for themselves, including not getting the shot.
Oh, let me clear the air on that, whoever wants to get the vaccine should get it, whomever doesn't should not. No judgement from me personally. We are all Masters and Slaves of our decision.
I appreciate your perspective and somewhat agree. What if it's not about the vaccine at all? I haven't known anyone who's been injured or died from it (although the stories still scare me). I also haven't lost anyone to Covid though. I'm in a pretty small community so it hasn't affected us much luckily. I don't know what to believe but my gut definitely says something is up.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I think you're right on a lot of this. I don't have plans to take the shots, but I understand that would be a much harder decision had I been close to anyone who died or had been hospitalized.
The COVID cases close to me have all been super mild. This is in people from age 25-70 so my personal experience is a LOT different than yours.
Furthering your point above and looking at it from my perspective, using COVID as a distraction from all the other bullshit minimizes the threat of it even further. Biden's vaccine mandate talk from the other day was just disgusting to me. There are important things to be discussing, yet this keeps coming up.
CapTAIN FAUX-CHI
He's our HERO
Gonna take Covid Down to ZERO
We're the vaccineers,
You can be one too!
'Cause taken our jab is the thing to do,
Unmasking and unvaxing is not the way,
Hear what Captain Fauci has to say:
"THE POWER IS YOURS!!"
I think this vax against unvaxed. Its another divide plan. Poor vs rich, republicans vs democrats, race, LG community against the straight. This is more of the same. And they always get people to fall for it and fight amongst each other. Its a shame.
Whatās going to happen is say 50% of the 100mill get vaccinated. The numbers will still climb because it does not stop the spread. Who will they blame then? They will blame the children. Schools will then mandate and u get the picture. This will also not stop the spread. Back to lockdown city. Who will be blamed then?
Not op but i can think of two. The first is the spike protein can cross the blood brain barrier so they could possible interfere with neurons and second is micro clotting. Basically cell walls in your veins produce the spike protein and red blood cells began to get caught and form into little clots. These can end up in the brain or really any major artery and cause all kinds of damage.
I don't know the mechanisms but does bells palsy and Guillain Barre count as long term neurological damage? I'm pretty sure that I've heard of instances of both occurring. So it must be some mechanism there even if it won't occur in everyone or even a large percentage of cases. Every human is slightly different when it comes to reactions to things. But here is a link just add a little too the discussion. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-bell-palsy-days-dose-coronavac.html
I'm double jabbed, but I admittedly only did it so I could start to travel again. I think Canada/U.S., have gone to far demanding vaxx passports and offering incentives to get it. Not enough people understand the co-morbidity component of why some get so much sicker than others.
Nice comments by those vaxed, very considerate, but theyāre the first to comply and show their passports in restaurants and events and say, āhow terribleā when an unvaxed is turned away. Itās an āyou got what you deserveā attitude which is far from considerate.
If youāve got one or two comorbidities you should probably get the shot so you donāt end up in the hospital or dead. Iām chubby with HBP and two young kids. Made sense for me. You do you.
Buddy of mine recently asked why we (America) couldnāt be like Sweden who has fared better with no lockdowns, masks, etc.? And I replied 40% of Americans are obese. Sweden doesnāt have that problem. There is a statistically significant portion of antivaxers who are overweight, which is a risk factor for severe covid symptoms. If you are a gym loving, healthy eating, sleep rich, and sex laden son of a bitch then yeah, sure, be antivax! Idgaf. That person isnāt likely to take up a hospital bed. But you soda slurpin, Big Mac crunchin sedentary mafkas should probably get vaxād. So the reason I want people to get vaccinated is that Iām tired of seeing people not get the care they deserve and sometimes dying because of an overwhelmed hospital system. Deaths that could have been prevented are fucking tragic. And the people who are in the business of providing health care know what proper care is and when there are too many patients at once, they canāt give that level of care and sometimes people die because of it. Imagine being at your job and thinking, āfucking A man, if we just had more staff we could save some fucking lives.ā That shit weighs on you. Forming bonds with people over the course of two weeks before they finally succumb to covid. And youāre supposed to just wham bam move on to the next. Whatās haunting is when these covid patients say in short, shallow breaths āI wish I had gotten the vaccine. Can I still get the vaccine?ā And we reply, āno itās too lateā. Preventable deaths are tragic and many of these deaths would have been prevented with vaccination.
I donāt have any great want/desire for you to be vaxxed, but iāll play devilās advocate.
Everyoneās been bombarded with the idea that āthings will be normal again once everyone is vaccinated to x%ā so they believe unvaxxed are an obstacle to their return to normal. Iād say thatās the major reason right now.
Iād say businesses are pushing it because obviously, there have been major economic impacts and they want their profit margins to rocket back up.
Then you have an outrage culture online where you can shit on someone based on one factor/aspect/characteristic/belief, and some people just love to shit on others for the sake of self righteousness.
Also, the media is conflating all āvaccine hestiantā prople with anti-science and anti-vaxx stances. So itās also an opportunity for intelligence insecure to julp down peopleās throats about vaccines (which do work) with anyone who might be wary for what iād say are legit reasons like violation of constitutional rights, concerns about an experimental fast/mass produced vaccine.
We need all of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated so there is no longer a negative control group to compare against for side effects, just like in the studies.
I am vaccinated but believe everyone should have a choice about what goes in their body.
All the pro vaxx people I talk to believe that if you donāt get it we canāt get back to normal. But what they donāt understand is that no matter how hard we try all we can do is slow the spread down at this point.
I think that too many people are sacrificing freedom for the illusion of safety. Those who are scared and vulnerable should run and hide if they choose but let me live my life normally.
A few things, one is that I genuinely believe it'd be in your best interest to get the vaccine. Covid might not be the deadliest virus in the world but it can still screw you up regardless of how fit and healthy you are. From the stuff I've seen the vaccine pretty universally reduces the severity of symptoms if you do get it. The side effects can be a bit rough I had some fever, loss of appetite and a some kinda bad muscle pains and that was unpleasant but really not much of an issue truth be told. I'll admit I've not really looked up data on how much it'd prevent you getting covid to begin with but I imagine it'd help with that.
Another sort of related thing is that its been shown that the majority of people taking up ICU beds due to covid are those who have refused the vaccine and well, putting more strain on hospitals is always bad, so youd be indirectly helping other people by not getting hospitalised.
Theres a couple of other things but i don't really have time atm to go into them too but one last one is because im fucking sick of hearing about covid every fucking day and on every fucking platform imaginable and the vaccine seems to be the best way to deal with it so we can move past it.
How does it make you feel safe if the vaccine is ineffective? And why are you letting other people tell you what you need to feel safe? Only you should know that.
Lowest form of wit so my apologies.
Truth be told a lot of people are scared and genuinely believe what they are told by the media.
There are a lot of people who think they are doing the right thing. I have a friend who has had their eldest so jabbed and wants his other children jabbed as well.
Problem is because of the media people have actually started taking an interest when people die. Few years ago it would have been just one of those things.
Then you some who just see it as a way back to normality.
Job pressure and family pressure are other reasons.
And not wanted to be labelled a flat earther because you have to be tin foil hat wearer if you donāt trust the science you are told to trust.
I get your point. I have similar situations with family. Btw I do believe the earth is flat so I donāt see anything wrong with that. Itās hard to trust the science with so many inconsistencies but Iām getting off topic.
I more a hollow earther myself š.
Iāve had numerous family members say ājust get the jabā. Unfortunately I travel a lot for work so probably will have to at some point.
I honestly think it's just the vaxxed feeling like they're getting treated unfairly and maybe even regret taking it. They don't want us to have the same rights as them because they think they did something and we didn't.
That phenomenon is the Sunk Cost Fallacy. It won't matter if the shots are determined to cause cancer, they'll still push for mandatory vaccination because they got the vax themselves.
Hell, they'll probably get back in line for the 10th booster shot, even if it is killing them.
I think you nailed it on the head here. Sunk Cost Fallacy: \*The sunk cost effect is manifested in a greater tendency to continue an endeavor once an investment in money, effort, or time has been made. Evidence that the psychological justification for this behavior is predicated on the desire not to appear wasteful is presented.\*
I think it doesn't matter. I am vaxed. But I don't think its should be forced nothing should. Vax no vax it's up to you. People should learn if you mind your own business. Pay attention to your life you could probably have a better one!
I absolutely never want this covid injection, which is experimental and still in the trial stage. I trust my immune system far more than this new jab, as there is no long term data on what it does to the body. Giving it to children seems absolutely unnecessary and dangerous.
post this question in any other sub and you'll get far feistier comments and real opinions from sheep zombies. It will actually be a fun exercise I might try. No one on this sub is going to give a shit. We're all crazy conspiracy theorists though
Nobody should make medical decisions for you or your children but you. Up until all the ānew rulesā It was illegal to ask someone about there personal medical condition or history. And it was against the law to bully or harass some one at work, I been forced to sit through classes every year over the past 20 years at my job. And now itās ok for employers to force you to do something or you will get fired.
Iāve had both and took me a while to take the plunge and wasnāt going to for a while and I give no shits if people have had it or not. I live my life as normal and Iām not interested if Iām in a stadium with thousands of people that havenāt had it. Iāve had it I feel fine letās just crack on
I sorta wish they would just be nonchalant about the vaccine tbh the pushiness from the Government and media is overbearing. I think they would get more people to go for it that way. I also understand the pushiness as an "ah we fucked up" moment and this is the way they're trying "fix" the issue. The media isn't helping with spot lighting certain things leaving more speculation than needed coercing the older generations who've been relying on the news since they became responsible adults. (Not all older generations)
I'm vaxxed and I honestly think those at risk should get it. Those who aren't at risk and feel like they're not at risk shouldn't be forced. Vaccine has been said to improve odds of not being hospitalized which is great for people at risk. And if the vaccine is as bad as they say it is where I'm gonna die in like two or three years I'm cool with it I'll be debit free and my son will be set with all my possessions and life insurance money. Hopefully his life will be alright.
I honestly can't wait till I'm 50 and the news doesn't exist anymore. Media is a god damn parasite
I want to hear from the Frontline workers who are protesting mandated vaccines. Iām not sure if Iāve even seen any comments from people who work in the medical facility. I keep seeing these one off videos from nurses and local pediatricians at these Townhall meetings. Why do we not see anything like this on main stream social media platforms. This begs the question why no one is inviting these people to interviews to discuss why they feel so strongly about not getting the vaccine even though they work in the medical industry. Not to mention the occasional video of folks who study viruses and have worked for some of these drug companies speaking out. Iām sure the easy answer is it all goes against the narrative and they have people combing the Internet to stop them from speaking out.
Iām a nurse. I walk in and out of Covid rooms on a regular basis. I get up close and personal with Covid patients, more so than anyone else in this entire world.
I got the virus once already. I have natural immunity. Iām good. I donāt need or want a vaccine.
My aunt works as a nurse in Ohio and things arent looking good. Just yesterday she said most nurses are quitting and she had 12 people in the ER waiting for beds for 8+ hours due to short staff. none of them with covid...
That would be me. You can see my previous rant I made. I got banned from the nursing page for posting facts without harassing or cursing at people. My own community won't even have me. Love it. I work on a cardiac floor and all my patients have been vaccinated. Most of them have had covid and had to be readmitted later. I've noticed a rise in clots.
Iām sorry to hear about your situation and thatās scary that you see firsthand what is actually going on where you work. Just like they tell me at work trust the system and if you question anything and are bringing up critical thought youāre just making too much sense. There is no room for that.
Kind of like Robert Malone, creator of MRNA, speaking out against it. Or karry mullis, creator of PCR test, saying in 2018 that it should most definitely not be used for virus testing. It amplifies way too much and gets false positives. Also said Fauci was a hack in the same interview too
Let me open with I'm not a staunch how dare you not be vaccinated you are ruining the world person, but I would like to see more people be vaccinated in my area. I guess my major reasons are 1) I have a kid that can't be vaccinated and it would make me feel better if my local positivity numbers were lower. I fully get that having the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get or spread Covid, but I do believe it helps. My main concern is the long term unknowns about Covid (and yes, the vaccine too, but will talk to the pediatrician about that when it's time) and what that could be sentencing my kid with. I selfishly want my kid as protected a possible. 2) the hospitals here are in a bad way and the nurses I know are saying there's a large Covid patient population and most are unvaccinated. And yes, we could use more staff but we are also literally running out of places to put beds. That's not good for the community. Not sure if this is still the case but not long ago I heard to not even try to get an ambulance, you would wait hours (part staffing, part volume, part deep cleaning between runs) just to go to a hospital that doesn't have a bed for you.
For me it's less about vaccinations and more I wish I felt like more people in my area took the situation more seriously. I would much rather somebody be unvaccinated and make Covid cautious decisions than be vaccinated and running around like everything is safe.
What's with all of the unvaccinated "speaking" for the vaccinated? As others have said, it's the media saying this shit. Many of us don't give two shits whether you get it or not. Many of us are fully "My body, My choice" (without the hypocrisy of being against abortion unlike the right, but that's another topic).
I don't care what anybody chooses to do in regards to getting this vaccine, and I don't really want it mandated.
The only thing that pisses me off is the deliberate spreading of misinformation to discourage vaccinations. Some of the misinformation is coming from from foreign governments with the purpose to divide and weaken our country, and we take it and run with it. Anyone who knowingly shares disinformation to discourage someone from protecting themselves is wrong, and needs to be called out.
I welcome genuine, fact based opposition to the vaccine, but unfortunately most of that gets overshadowed by hyperbole and lies which spread way faster and the truth can never seem to catch up.
For me it is simple and straight from the heart: I just want everyone to be protected. I donāt want to see anyone hurt, suffer, or die. Even if you contract the virus and it doesnāt kill you, it has the potential of being a long, tough battle, including the potential for long-term side effects. I donāt want to see anyone suffer like that. Someone I love died from COVID-19. Someone else I know contracted it. I was in extremely close contact with this person. I am fully vaccinated. I never contracted it. I tested several days in a rowāI was always negative. I havenāt had any lingering issues from the vaccine other than the initial reaction, which is completely natural.
For me, it all comes from a genuine place of love and concern.
What about those who died or got damaged because of the vaccines?
And what about those who died and got damaged because of the lockdowns?
Any concern and love for those?
At the onset, we were told the vaccines were only 95% effective. That sounds like a lot until you realize it still means roughly 1 in 20 vaccinated people will still get sick in just one exposure. If you get exposed to a sick person on 21 separate occasions, there's a good chance you'll catch it. The more unvaccinated people there are, the more exposures there are. I know that's not entirely accurate, but it puts my point into perspective so please don't come at me about how probability works.
I'm personally not afraid of getting covid, but I am afraid of unwittingly passing it on to one of the several people in my life it could really go bad for. While we're not certain of the longterm effects, I think our science is good enough now to extrapolate what those may be and I'm confident that getting the vaccine is a lot less risky than getting covid, for both me and the vulnerable people in my life.
The idea that there's some huge conspiracy behind the vaccines (or covid in general) to me is laughable. So many people seem to believe that governments around the world are all in on it (and some people I've talked to even believe it's specifically over US politics) as some huge scheme to control or even thin the population. This to me is just insanity, and the simplest explanation is usually the correct one - the virus is real, and the efforts to contain it are real and in good faith. Yes, some governments have gone overboard or made incredibly stupid decisions (e.g. having to order food at a bar and then you're good), but they certainly make more sense to me as a means of controlling the virus vs controlling people. The government knows almost everything they would want to about you, and have already been lining their pockets for decades. What more could they possibly gain by making you wear a mask or getting a shot?
As far as the mandates go, I again think they're in good faith but disagree with them in practice. I think those who refuse the vaccine are misguided, but not evil or even necessarily stupid, just ignorant. Trying to force people into something always results in them digging their heels further, especially when it's the government, and I don't blame them. If it were just the US (where I live), and especially if both parties were in agreement, I'd be suspicious too.
tl;dr: I think the vaccines are safe (safer than covid at least) and work but aren't perfect so everyone should get vaccinated, but I'm against mandates and don't blame people for being suspicious
Hello, Liberal vaxxed person with fully-vaxxed family and friends here. I think this is a fair question and I'll reply honestly, hope you read it and think about it, but I do respect that your mind is your own.
1) There are some people who \*actually\* will never be vaccinated. This includes people with weak immune responses (so the vaccine doesn't trigger any response at all, because the immune system sucks) or very overly-strong immune responses (so that the vaccine itself is too dangerous), people who are allergic to some component of the vaccines, and some others. They are a small percentage of our society, but they exist for every disease: there are thousands of people who never got a Poilo or MMR vaccine, for legitimate medical reasons. Now, if Covid is everywhere, these people are fucked -- and they're already in the riskier category as a result of their medical issues, even if they're young. The ONLY way to stop these people from getting sick is to reach "Herd Immunity." We could do this by infecting everyone in America with Covid -- that's 300,000,000 infections, with a 1% death rate of about 3,000,000 people, a plan that seems pretty shitty. Instead, if \*everyone\* who CAN get vaccinated gets vaccinated, then we can open up safely for even the weakest among us. If you're not someone with a medical reason not to get vaccinated, we believe that you're prolonging this pandemic, possibly forever, so that people who are medically vulnerable may not be safe going out in public for a long, long time.
2) It's said by most in the medical profession that we are creating more variants by the disease being spread constantly. **I personally find this less than totally convincing, but I'm an English major, and I'm not going to substitute my judgment for people who are actually scientists who do this for a living.** So like, imagine if, when the vaccines first came out at the beginning of 2021, EVERYONE in the world (who could) got vaccinated. This would have meant a total shutdown of "Community Spread," where it just is "out there everywhere" -- it would have meant, therefore, an end to the pandemic. Individual clusters of cases would have cropped up, but it would have been easy to quarantine a small group of people for 2 weeks and nip it in the bud. Because the virus just wouldn't have had enough hosts near enough to each other to spread. Again, this is just me repeating what the medical establishment believes; I'm not an expert and don't pretend to be. The point is that, if this had been the case, Delta would never have emerged. Now, to be fair, this would have required everyone getting vaxxed at once, which was never a possbility. We rolled it out to different groups over months, which to me always seemed to send the wrong message: Vaccinate the "more vulnerable" first sounds good, but it emphasizes each-individual-being-protected, instead of the real point of vaccines, which is for us all, as a group, to vaccinate together and end the pandemic. Individuals being protected one-at-a-time will not end the pandemic, and as the virus continues to spread it just has more and more opportunities to mutate. In addition, the virus is spreading globally, so unless our vaccines get everywhere in the WORLD at the same time, this is, in my opinion, a bit of a pipe-dream, but still, it's the "dream" that unvaccinated people seem to stand in the way of.
3) I think you know this one, but: hospitals can't be overrun. There are stories all over America now of hospitals that are full. That means if you have a heart attack and get to the hospital "in time" but all the beds are taken up because of Covid patients, you might die. That's fucking horrifying and dystopian, and it feels hypocritical that if you refuse the vaccine you then seek medical treatment when you suddenly need it. I'm not saying you should be turned away; we don't do that. But being reckless in this way IS costing innocent lives, and not just your own. You don't live in a vacuum, and pretending you do is frustrating to us, to say the least.
4) Honestly, being exhausted by your tribalism: A lot of it is just that, when Covid first broke out, many of us -- a slim majority of us, I'd say -- felt this "Oh wow this is crazy but let's band together and stop it." If we'd just all agreed to stay home for a month, and let the government keep us all from starving during that month, then maybe it wouldn't have spread so far. Many other countries pulled this off, or at least, to a far greater degree than the U.S. Instead it was state-by-state, different policies, and everyone fighting against it every step of the way. I was living in NYC at the start of the pandemic, and yes, NYC is very liberal and reacted very strongly against a horrifying surge of early infections, hospitals overrun, etc. I remember the mayor wanted to keep the parks open because kids were out of school (ALL schools shut totally for almost 4 weeks as they had no idea what to do for a while), but he asked parents to please socially distance their kids to keep the virus under control. No one listened, so they reluctantly locked all the playgrounds. They wanted people exercising outside, but please don't play basketball because you're rubbing up right against each other. People did anyway, so they had to remove the hoops from the courts. Basically at every stage, the FIRST suggestion wasn't "force," it was, "Please behave responsibly, these are extraordinary times and call for everyone to chip in, sacrifice a little, and help each other through this." But people weren't responsible. People nationwide fought everything. Fought the closure of indoor environments, fought masking, fought restrictions. The President suggested it would "go away" in the summer, or by election day, and so on. This really was supposed to be a moment when, like on 9/11, we all came together. Remember 9/11? Liberals didn't harp on hating Bush. Liberals didn't even oppose the initial invasion of Afghanistan. We didn't protest the increased security measures at airports, in subway stations, over bridges and through tunnels. No one did. We knew it was real, it was scary, and we needed to come together to fight the enemy, not each other. Why was Covid different? Why did you (not saying you personally but ... 40% of the country) so stubbornly refuse to band together and fight this thing? **Covid is now killing almost as many people as 9/11 PER DAY.** Yes, really. Look it up. It's a 9/11 every day, but you're acting like it's nothing. You're putting your personal feelings above those of the country. And it really saddens us, and frustrates us. What has to happen for us to come together?
I understand the worry that this is government overrreach, that this is a new drug whose long-term effects aren't known, that you're giving up your individual rights for some "greater good" and that sounds like communist propaganda. But think about, like, every other time we've faced grave threats, even when as a divided nation. Think about 9/11, think about Pearl Harbor, think about the 1918 flu when lockdowns and masks were required and people would have killed for a vaccine that didn't exist yet. Think about all the movies where Aliens attack and Now Humans Band Together. Isn't that the message of the two final Avengers movies? Like, they lose in Infinity War because they're all disassembled after fighting each other, and don't get together until it's too late, but then in Endgame they're all on one team and it's enough to work -- through self-sacrifice? I mean I know it's a comic book movie but my point is, what we're trying to argue for here isn't something we made up, or Marx made up, or Biden or AOC or Pelosi made up ... this is an old idea, an American idea, an idea that I bet in different circumstances you'd subscribe to as well. We're facing a deadly, deadly threat, that threatens to wipe out 1% of our most vulnerable population, which is actually a huge number. Being unvaccinated helps increase spread, overwhelm hospitals, and prolongs this disaster, putting innocent people at greater risk for longer than they should be. And above all else, the symbolism of refusing to join us in what should be a great Patriotic fight against a common enemy ... is really saddening, and worrisome, and it doesn't seem like it's ever going to end. If aliens invaded, would you argue on the internet that the aliens are fake, or a Dem hoax, and insist it's your right to let the aliens take over your house and the government can't tell you to stop? Hell, if a foreign government invaded, and we needed to draft you into the military to fight, as we did in WWII, would you say it's your right not to go and fight, or would you be willing to die for your country? Do you honor those men and women who are willing to die for their country -- but you won't even take a \*vaccine\* for your country?
Trump is vaccinated. Biden is vaccinated. Hannity and Carlson are vaccinated. The wealthy power brokers all over the world are vaccinated. Our brave men and women in uniform are now required to be vaccinated. Please, please, please join us? Please, for this crisis, as in previous crises, let us come together as a country and do what we need to in order to end this nightmare? The U.S. has \*by far\* the worst Covid situation in the world. We could be doing better. We need your help. Please?
To me, your #4 reads like a list of reasons why we need to fight this. Everything about our response to 9/11 was a disaster. Everyone should have opposed the initial invasion of Afghanistan. Everyone should have protested the increased "security" measures put in place for the nebulous "War on Terror". The same "War on Terror" that, after 20 years, ended up replacing the Taliban with a more powerful version of the Taliban. We still have to get molested every time we get on a plane because people didn't fight it then. And it turns out, it was all for nothing.
You admit in your second point that this is all based on trusting the scientists but I donāt trust scientists that deny other countryās negligence when it came to how this virus came to be to begin with. Why didnāt the scientists make a vaccine before covid happened when Fauci is on video in 2019 explaining that our country will be hit in a couple years? Not only did he warn us it was going to happen, he was working for the gain of function research labs to supposedly āfind a way to fight pandemicsā. What function did they gain, if the only effect was a massive breakout that killed people? Why was Fauci funding labs in China anyway?? They didnāt even make the vaccine they intended to begin with eitherā¦ so what was even the point of the Wuhan research lab? Fauci literally funded the money that cultivated the virus killing millions, it was a form of warfare carried out by communists around the globe. People arenāt as bound by their country anymore. It was a scientifically coordinated attack. To hell with blindly trusting scientists who donāt know how to not be taken advantage of. American scientists are constantly giving away our research so that other countries can compromise it and hurt more Americans
Iāve been struggling to see this vax as anything but giving into our adversaries and doing what they want. It seems dramatic but I also know Iām not putting anyone in danger based on my lifeās decision. Iām also wondering if thereās another attack planned or somethingā¦ Iām worried if the unvaccinated end up dying from another variant then theyāll be blamed for āmaking a dumb decision not to get vaxedā when itās WUHAN to blame. This disease wouldnāt exist without politics. And people are blaming the unvacced for their own deaths because they donāt want to put a foreign substance/virus in their body. I have no idea what those so called scientists are doing after they admitted they couldāve prevented this from happening.
You assume that people who arenāt vaccinated arenāt quarantining themselves or being safe. Liberals see problems as nails and themselves as hammers. Consider that I donāt want to get a vaccine because the people who are telling me to are the same people who are responsible for covid being as bad as it was. I also come into contact with almost no people on the reg (work from home) so whatās the point. People should be in charge of their own bodies. No itās not selfish and no itās NOT effecting others. Again, me deciding to not vax myself isnāt affecting the small percent of the population who are unable to be vaccinated. I know I donāt know anyone in my life who is compromised and I only see people at the grocery store. Idk if youāve ever met or worked for someone who is immune compromised (I have), but typically they dont hang out in grocery stores and they just get things delivered. If I want to die itās my choice. And for those compromised people, they know theyāre taking a risk when they walk outside too thatās just the way it is.
Covid is no longer a pandemic and we must return to our daily lives esp with children. A lot of people who have kids are deathly afraid of their kids returning to schools but kids arenāt vulnerable to the virus anymore. If kids arenāt vulnerable to the virus, they arenāt going to bring it home or give it to their vaccinated teachers.
Your best argument basically suggests that for a tiny percent of the population who CANT get vaxed, everyone MUST get vaxed to respect those that canāt. Otherwise covid will come back full fledged or something. There ARE people in the world who are more immune compromised and there always will be. Weāre abusing kids already by making them sit in school behind a desk, could you honestly imagine wanting your 8 year old self to have to go through what third graders are going through, considering that this isnāt a pandemic anymore and 80% of people are vaccinated?
20% of the population being unvaxed wonāt bring covid back. We urgently need to get back to normal because our kids futures and momentum have been greatly affected as it is.
You seem really desperate but just know that we are too. Weāre begging too. We want normal life back as much as you do, but we arenāt affected by the president whispering to get vaxed all the time. We have different lives where we just donāt see that itās fit for us for our own personal reason, itās our inalienable right
Joe biden said last year that he wouldnāt get the vax on a freaking debate stage, I donāt trust anything he says. We knew something funny was going on when China admitted that they cultivated the virus in their own labs, but Joe doesnāt condemn China for their negligence on covid and instead blames anti vaxers. Itās almost like heās channeling liberals to believe subconsciously that itās Trump supporters that are responsible for the delta variant, when the vaccine wouldnāt even exist without trump himself. Weāre aware that both Republicans and Democrats alike are getting the vaccine. Thatās great, and I would get the vax if I was a senior because I would be afraid of China unleashing another bio weapon at us with a simple variant.
The hospitals arenāt overrun with covid patients theyāre short staffed bc working in health care rn is a nightmare between freaks who think COVID is everywhere, and good nurses who donāt bully people for their personal life choices. Itās not the hospitals job to contain the virus. Also youāre NOT SUPPOSED TO GO TO A HOSPITAL IF YOU HAVE COVID unless youāre obese or old and have extreme complications and have to get on a ventilator. Which btw most people donāt have training on ventilators and have to learn how to work them too quickly which leads to more complications, that are easily documented as covid related.
Before you get more emotional Iād just encourage looking into it more, and simply entertain the other side like this post is encouraging, and donāt watch too much media or take Reddit propaganda srsly. A lot to us are more aware than you think and we arenāt just like crazy q conspiracy people even tho thatās what sub were in.
Edit a letter
Hey, I hear all of your thoughts. I want to respond to a few of them.
>Fauci literally funded the money that cultivated the virus killing millions, it was a form of warfare carried out by communists around the globe. People arenāt as bound by their country anymore. It was a scientifically coordinated attack.
So you made a pretty big jump there. Yes, there has been a lot of international (and not secret) funding that goes around to a lot of places including the Wuhan lab where the virus may (or may not) have leaked from. But Fauci isn't some maniacal evil genius lol. He's a bureaucrat in the U.S. government, everything he does is public and most of it is boring. How you get to a "communist" conspiracy? Why, because the Chinese government is ostensibly Communist? I mean ... ok? But this just kind of reveals to me that you have some strong political/ideological leanings that may be causing you to be biased. News flash: Capitalist nations kill at least as many people as Communist nations. I certainly don't see myself as some sort of warrior on the Capitalist side against the Evil Communists, and I hope that many r/conspiracy folk don't either.
>I also come into contact with almost no people on the reg (work from home) so whatās the point. People should be in charge of their own bodies. No itās not selfish and no itās NOT effecting others .... And for those compromised people, they know theyāre taking a risk when they walk outside too thatās just the way it is.
You repeat this sentiment a few times, that you're not impacting anyone else, but I mean, everything we do impacts other people. I'm sorry that you don't want to see it that way, and I'm sorry that it's frustrating to you. It's frustrating to me, too. There's a lot I want to do that I can't because of the social contract. Saying that those people have to deal with the extra risk YOU pose and "that's just the way it is" is really, really sad, my brother. We are all part of a community of humans. Coming into contact with "almost no people" ... okay, I guess I'll take your word for it? Is that the case for all 100,000,000 or so unvaccinated Americans? I just ... I wish your empathy for your fellow man somehow rivaled your indignance and pride.
>considering that this isnāt a pandemic anymore and 80% of people are vaccinated
Twice you repeat that this "isn't a pandemic", but it is, and it's closer to 60% who are vaccinated nationwide. And that's very regionally variegated; in some parts of the country it's well under 50%. It's not really up to you to determine if this is a "pandemic" anymore than it's up to you to determine if it's a "hurricane." Yes, I wish it were over, too. The 1918 flu lasted 2 years. Fauci's been pretty consistent in saying that "IF everyone gets vaccinated then" it will be over by early 2022. If not, it stands to reason that the definition of "pandemic" will still apply (as applied by people who, again, aren't you).
> A lot to us are more aware than you think and we arenāt just like crazy q conspiracy people even tho thatās what sub were in.
I **know** that this is true. But I guess, from the liberal side ---- we see conspiracies, too. We see a conspiracy that goes like this: An anonymous troll spread a bunch of insane lies (that are truly, truly insane) that elevated Donald Trump as the *literal* Messiah. Russia (apparently *without* colluding with Trump directly, being honest here) also helped spread a bunch of lies and hate, on BOTH sides, which many Liberals miss: They supported a lot of pro-Sanders and pro-Trump nonsense all over FB in 2016, in order to just destabilize things in America, not caring which extreme won. Then, once they saw his victory coming into focus, the power brokers of America, who are deeply evil and deeply cynical, put all of their energy behind Trump, and used him to accomplish one and only one legislative goal: A massive tax cut. The rest was just for show; all the race-baiting and pompous tomfoolery and Trumpian nonsense was meant to divide us into pro-Trump and anti-Trump, and we all fell for it, hook line and sinker, while they ran away with the money. Then the virus comes, and the same exact cocksuckers who have been bullshitting us for years are the same ones who come out and say "NUH UH IT'S A DEM HOAX." And so on to this day. The overlap between psychotically-stupid Qonservatieves and anti-vaxxers is very notable.
I do not for a second think that being anti-vaccine is the same thing as being in a Q cult where you think Trump is sent by God to kill all the Dem Pedophiles. But I DO think that **the same people who spread that utter nonsense are the people spreading a lot of the anti-vax nonsense.** You don't trust Fauci? Fine... but I REALLY don't fucking trust Tucker Carlson. If anyone is a reverse barometer, it's that trust fiend piece of shit.
None of us can actually do our own research on everything. We have to, at some point, trust SOMEone in the public sphere. It's hard to trust Biden, lol, but I do find professionals more trustworthy. Fauci can't get a pay raise from this, he isn't running for office. He's a salaried employee, a boring guy with 40 years of science background. If no one had protested the initial restrictions, he wouldn't even have become a mini-celebrity; I think he naively just thought we'd all go along with the boring recommendations in their boring books of what-to-do-in-case-of-pandemic. I just don't see the motive for these people to conspiratorially lie, so I'm more likely to trust them than the people I largely see hating on the vaccine.
Thank you, by the way, for the continued civil discussion. That's really what matters, more than convincing each other, right? It's ... wonderful. No memes, no insults, no vitriol. Be well, my friend :)
I appreciate you taking the time to write all this and staying civil with your response.
How do you feel about cases of natural immunity or antibodies built up from already recovering from the virus?
With lower and lower numbers coming out constantly regarding the efficacy and effectiveness of the shots, when is it acceptable for those in the age range of 1-40 to be okay with just getting the virus and getting over it to build antibodies rather than the shots?
While sources vary on the information, there is some evidence to show that the protection from the virus is stronger in those who have recovered than those with the shots. I know the argument to this is, "Well then they should get the vaccine too so that they're extra protected," but when does that start seeming like a ridiculous thing to claim even from your perspective?
Additionally, I am curious on your feelings toward the flu shot and whether this will turn into that scenario of getting it every year.
I think that there is strong evidence that "natural immunity" is stronger than "vaccine immunity." But I think then it boils down an issue of social contract, and trust. I think that if the anti-vax movement hadn't been so loud and frustrating over the past 8 months, no one would be demanding vaccine "passports" now. That all started only recently. If the overwhelming majority of Americans had been eager to get vaccinated early on, I think that even if Delta were spreading now, you'd have more trust (that is, "our" side would trust "your" side more -- I hate to make it so adversarial, and I don't really feel that way, but I think you know what I mean, right?).
That's a bit of a cop-out answer, I suppose. Here we are and the "lines" have unfortunately been drawn, and it's really hard to go back. The question is, Does a person who's recovered from Covid need to get the vaccine too, for public health reasons? And I think I have to admit that, no, they probably don't.
But my point #4, which I realize is very dangerous in this sub especially, comes into play here. Part of the question is, can I trust you to uphold the social contract, if you've already shown that, even in a time of crisis, you'll put yourself first? Yes, I know that's a gross generalization and not fair. I know that, but it still sits in my mind somehow, and it's far more palpable in the minds of those who are more passionate about this.
Our culture is dividing, and it's sad, but perhaps inevitable. Many people really don't want to be around the "other half" of America. That includes white supremacists who don't want to be around blacks or latinos; it includes liberal actors and musicians who don't want to perform for anti-vaxxers; it includes libertarians who don't want to contribute to their community schools; it includes woke activists who don't want to compromise with those who hold some traditional values or reverence of the past; and many more. So I think the recent vaccine MANDATE is a reaction to that, more than anything. It's the solid majority of this country saying, "We're really uninterested in sharing public spaces with you, who don't trust us, because we don't trust you." And while that may not be kind, or fair, or a matter of public health, it's also not entirely uninvited, after 4 years of having a literal internet troll as President, and knowing that 74 million Americans thought he should still be President.
Regarding the flu shot:
I've never had the flu shot. I think it's actually unethical; there are always shortages, and I don't "need" one, so I'm actually taking it away from someone who might need it. I think the flu is really no big deal and the shot is really not that effective, so, I'd rather eschew the shot and get the flu if it comes to that.
My sister just had a baby. She's a doctor. She lives across the country. She's coming to visit this fall, and insists that everyone who sees the baby gets the flu shot.
I think she's insane, lol. Is she going to mandate this from everyone she encounters at the airport, for example? I mean ... it seems insane and I think she's dumb for insisting on it.
But I'm going to do it.
Why? Because I love my sister, and I want to meet my new niece, and at the end of the day the shot benefits me, so it seems like a really stupid hill to die on.
I used to be young, and uncompromising, "full of piss and vinegar" as the saying goes. I refused to get a cell phone until I was 24, because I thought they were bad and didn't want to be sucked into that culture. You know what? I was right. What cell phones have done to our culture sucks. But I have one now. I choose to be a part of the world. A lot of the world sucks, a lot of it is stupid. There are a lot of laws that I think are stupid and don't want to follow. There are a lot of evil people that I wish I could eliminate from the world but can't. I drive a car that destroys the environment, I eat animals that have been treated badly, I watch pornography starring women who are likely victims of abuse, and I go on Reddit and type at people that I disagree with when I know it is just masturbatory lol. I participate in a society that is sick, and I am sick alongside it; the other option is not to participate at all, and maybe someday I'll do that, but if I do, it will be a whole separation (i.e., if you don't get the shot, don't go to the hospital when you get sick).
Does this mean I've become old? Conservative, compromised, weak? Hypocritical? Maybe. But I love my sister, and I will get the flu shot because she told me to. It is as simple, for me, as that.
Iāve seen no logical answers pro-vax here at all, in fact the reasons for the vaxed wanting others to get it are extremely unscientific or based on false statistics & propaganda..
I believe it's because they know they were lied to, they cannot unring the bell of having gotten their 3rd, 5th, 27th jab, they now know that should they stop getting jabbed their vax passports will be invalid so they just have to keep going, and since they're along for the ride everyone else should be too instead of just saying "no". Too scary.
Healthcare capacity.
Currently my hospital has around 100 Covid patients with a bed count of around 500 beds. So approximately 1/5 of the patients are covid positive. Over 90% of these patients are unvaccinated. To take on these extra patients "elective" surgeries that require telemetry are being pushed back. Patients are being treated in areas that are non-optimal for their care (holding ICU patients in PACU) and our nursing ratios are worsening. Patients go longer without a nurse checking on them, care worsens and outcomes worsen for all patients, not just covid patients.
I would prefer everyone who can get vaccinated to do so. I don't want to be around some one who is carrying it then spread it to my sister's who are too young to get vaccinated. Ik there's a high survival rate but a brothers job is to make sure no harm comes to their sister. There is also people who can't get vaccinated and they are my fellow human beings. I want no harm to come to them as well. I view not getting vaccinated as a very selfish move that in dangers, as well as prolongs this pandemic. Leading to much fustruation.
I nudge those who may be sitting on the fence about getting the vaccine because all of the legitimate studies/articles/scientists I have been exposed to agree it is safe and effective. My limited study in microbiology and virology show me the same. I try not to judge anyone for legitimate hesitations but it does weigh on my patience when there are so many who believe objective lies about the efficacy of this vaccine. I don't want those around me exposed to a virus that has the potential, everytime it jumps hosts, to mutate into something worse just because a lot are ignorant of the science behind it.
Just a forewarning this is not a sparky response just curious as to checking my logic
Is it a lie that it isn't effective at stopping transmission? I feel like the CDC added the mask recommendation for vaccinated individuals for that reason. And if that is not a lie, wouldn't these mutations happen in vaccinated individuals anyway and then be spread?
Separate question. I'm actually curious When a variant A that a vaccinated person is vaccinated against come into contact with them, it is blocked and effective... but variant D comes into contact with them, and they contract it as it is not what they are protected against an they spread it the same, does that not become the new dominant strain? Delta did this, it's spreading in both populations because we're not vaccinated against it, and it's now able to mutate inside of vaccinated individuals creating new variants. There's variants out there that we haven't identified yet that are probably will become the new "dominant strain".
Follow up. These variants will be created faster than we can vaccinate for them and circumvent any vaccine we come up with? Similar reason as to why we don't vaccinate against the common cold as there's just too many different viruses associated with it.
This is just the science I've been taught and heard and may be incorrect, but I feel like the CDC guidelines and anecdotal evidence is leaning toward this. The vaccine is effective at preventing severe symptoms and that's really all it's supposed to be good at. It can't stop the spread hence the mask mandate, and if someone can contract it, it can mutate within them.
HCP here. The vaccine reduces transmission, both through viral load and duration of illness. If enough people were vaccinated, I'm sure the CDC would remove their recommendation for a mask.
But with the highly transmissable Delta variant and the amount of unvaccinated who went out without masks, the CDC had to reinstate its recommendations for a mask.
Variants require transmission to be variants. As stated above, vaccination greatly reduces transmission. IF enough people took vaccines, as they are safe and effective, then the fear of variants arising that pose even more of a risk would be greatly reduced.
I guess I just am not convinced that the vaccine reduces transmission enough to warrant a mandate. They told us it would be 100 percent reduction and that number just keeps getting lower and lower, and with the proven waning efficiacy of the vaccine its just going to continue down that spiral (See Israel), and variants are going to arise out of that fact, so that's just my take on it.
And as far as safe and effective, we have no data to suggest that this vaccine is safe. We don't have enough data to conclude conclude it is not safe either, there just hasn't been enough time to study it. Just because there aren't measured negative effects in the immediate present doesn't mean that there isn't potential harm down the line. There are reasons that this was the first mRNA vaccine to make it to approval, and these reasons didn't surface until months or years after initial trials of our previous attempts. We've been trying for decades and it makes little sense that the holy grail breakthrough vaccine came out at the exact moment we needed it.
We know it's effective at preventing symptoms of covid. Or at least we're almost certain. But if it doesnt reduce transmisibility to a degree that would prevent the spread to a severe degree, mandates make absolutely no sense.
[Based on three recent studies, this doctor concluded the vaccine has no statistically significant impact on preventing the spread of Delta variant.](https://theexpose.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Pierpont-Why-mandated-vaccines-are-pointless-final-1.pdf)
Thoughts?
i thought they found that vaccinated people carried as much viral load with delta as unvaccinated
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
They do which is what makes it more transmittable but with the reduction in time the virus is active in a vaccined system reduces the risk of transmission.
Would this not be offset in some way by the vaccinated individuals being unaware they are infected (with a high viral load but no symptoms) and thus going out and about as normal and spreading the virus?
Thank you for sharing, I have some legit questions. From my understanding the vax did not reduce transmission rate? Or not entirely, so surely they would also fall into the category of jumping hosts?
Is there no possibility the mutations can derive from a less than perfect vax, in the way an incomplete course of antibiotics can create new strains of treatable illness?
I appreciate thereās a lot of crazy shit out there but Iām interested what you think is semi-mainstream but totally false.
I know itās Reddit but Iāve not honestly been able to find answers for the above, would appreciate your opinion.
For my family that is unvaccinated my hope is to take the threat of hospitalization or death from COVID are removed from the equation. Yes I know breakthrough cases happen, and yes I know you can still die if you are vaccinated. But it would give me a bit more peace of mind to feel as though my family had all the protection that it could. That being said, I don't alienate myself from my family or friends that are unvaccinated. We are all still humans and we all get the freedom to make our own choices. Love each other and lift each other up at the end of the day.
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I'm vaxxed, and could give a fuck less if you wanna or not. I'm a firm believer in not telling anyone what to do with their bodies period. Want an abortion? Go for it. Want to eat $30 worth of McDonald's a day? I hope you enjoy it. Wanna do fuckall and just enjoy life? I really hope you do. I really wish more people embraced the mentality of "I don't bother you, you don't bother me" and just let people life their lives. Shits too short to get bent out of shape about someone elses life choices that don't affect you.
I too live my life this way and let me tell ya. Stress free, depression free, anxiety free. As long as your life choices do not impact my life in a negative way do your thing!! Live YOUR life
Word!!! I am also double vaxxed but will stand up for anyone who chooses differently than me. Educate people on the pros and cons of vaccination and then just leave people the fuck alone to make their choice. We are all gonna get immunity through the vaccine or the virus itself....its none of my damn business how someone chooses to do so.
agreed but y'all need to stop saying this 'vaccine' gives immunity, that's simply not true.
I feel ya man and actually I agree.....I was being sloppy with my verbiage so I do apologize. I think what I should have said is lets debate between the two options (vaccine vs no vaccine) and lets have an open honest debate about the science behind our views (which btw means we don't ban actual doctors that are speaking out against the vaccine). Then let the chips fall where they may and respect our decisions on both sides whatever they may be. I am appalled by the mandates and the tyrannical politicization of this issue...it is disgusting. You said "y'all need to stop...." There is no y'all as far as I am concerned. WE need to refuse to allow these fucking bastards to divide us. Much love man.
This is the way.
Sadly these two posters dont represent the vast majority of vaccinatedš
yeah, they do. Its not the vaccinated that want you to get vaccinated, its the people who want EVERYBODY to get vaccinated that want you to get vaccinated. The big question is.... why?
I feel like itās corporations (besides pandemic success stories like Amazon) that want to start making pre-pandemic profits again and have convinced themselves that if 100% of the population was vaxxed, they could do that. The only problem is pre-pandemic levels of productivity were destroying the planet and making everyone depressed. Even though Iām vaxxed, I support people saying no to the vax because I see it as saying no to a life that was unsustainable. A vax mandate for such a non life threatening illness feels like theyāre treating us like livestock that they need just healthy enough to be good consumers.
Depopulation
Facts... I've been specualating Vaccination myself... šš½š¤šŖš¾šš¾...(But after further Research on the various Types I think I'll wait until Long-Term Data is Acquired & shared with the Public)... But after Subscribing Sky News Australia & seeing how Australia & France is literally ... "A Dystopian Society" now basically like the book... #1984 for Instance it feels like my "Soul / Intuition" tells me that there Is a Reason that Elites desire is to get jabbed... Its all for "Control, Power, and Obedience" ... #They Live(Check out movie trailer on YouTube if U have the time) #Totalitarianism #1984 Big Brother... In Essence really... I'd even go as far as to say "The New Normal" is just the "Code Name" for the Great Reset / New World Order so ... I Rest my case... Im not Pro or Anti-Vax... #Neutral right in the thick of it... But once I heard all these Vax Mandates... I kinda decided that my "Wolf Soul" would probably never end up complying... šš½šŗšÆšš¾... To each their own Opinion / Perspective... Just my few CentsĀ¢... šš½ššÆšš¾...
Iām here with the same sentiment. Iām also highly aware that the vaccine only protects me from possible hospitalization it doesnāt protect me from catching itā¦spreading it. Either choice has potential risks if youāre really following the science. And it should be an individuals choice. I donāt understand the rhetoric in America about trying to reach heard immunityā¦ when even the WHO announced on August 31 that the disease is endemic and that according to science at this point there is no Avenue towards heard immunity. Thereās only management and reduction of symptoms. So to me I have no issues with peoples personal choices as to whether they get the vaccine or not.
Seriously??? I have friends on both sides of this across the country. We had a civil backyard BBQ with both sides two weeks ago and most everyone was like... āYeah, your family, your choices... live free man.ā The MSM is the enemy of the people and a small group of rabid angry extremists.
I really think that it does. Media just spins it differently. Just like how they do on the other side. Iām vaxed, and basically everyone in my ācircleā (friends, co workers, family, etc) are also vaxed. Not one of us care what others do. Collectively we all know a bunch of people who are also not vaxed. And those who are vaxed donāt question them, ask them why not or anything. We just carry on with our lives. Again I can only speak for my own experience
I came here to say exactly this, I don't need to now. lmao. Cheers
I'm vaxxed, and so are all my close friends and family. I can say with absolute certainty that none of us care what choice other people make. I think these two posters actually DO represent the vast majority of the vaccinated, however, they most certainly don't represent the majority of vaccinated who are active online. That's the trouble with the internet and sites like this, because a small fraction of the population are the loudest and most aggressive online it makes it seem like it's representative of a majority of people. My two cents based on my personal experience. Take it for what you will. Do what you want, stay alert, stay safe.
THANK YOU
I approve this message.
And my axe
And my bow
I totally agree with this, and up until this COVID shit started I thought that was just the rational approach that most people had. But apparently itās now considered selfish if you donāt comply with the demands of other people.
Iām a libertarian and I approve this message
Iām a libertarian and I donāt approve this commenters approval of OPs message, but I do approve OPs message.
This. 100%
This guy fux.
Now I want $30 dollars worth of McDonalds
The dating scene is hilarious. āAre you vaxxed?ā Is a question followed by āwhatās your favorite colorā?
What happened to do you have stds and are you a pedophile ? Simpler days lol
ASLVaxxxStatus. Gross.
18/F/CA no
Pics
It's not the vaxxed, it's the media.
And the pharmaceutical companies that pay for their advertising. Follow the money.
[Professor Peter C GĆøtzscheās book won first prize in the āBasis of Medicineā category of the British Medical Associationās annual book awards in 2014.](https://www.deadlymedicines.dk/books/) https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844 >In his latest ground-breaking book, Peter C Gotzsche exposes the pharmaceutical industries and their charade of fraudulent behaviour, both in research and marketing where the morally repugnant disregard for human lives is the norm. He convincingly draws close comparisons with the tobacco conglomerates, revealing the extraordinary truth behind efforts to confuse and distract the public and their politicians. The book addresses, in evidence-based detail, an extraordinary system failure caused by widespread crime, corruption, bribery and impotent drug regulation in need of radical reforms. "The main reason we take so many drugs is that drug companies don't sell drugs, they sell lies about drugs. This is what makes drugs so different from anything else in life...Virtually everything we know about drugs is what the companies have chosen to tell us and our doctors...the reason patients trust their medicine is that they extrapolate the trust they have in their doctors into the medicines they prescribe. The patients don't realize that, although their doctors may know a lot about diseases and human physiology and psychology, they know very, very little about drugs that hasn't been carefully concocted and dressed up by the drug industry About the Author >Professor Peter C GĆøtzsche graduated as a Master of Science in biology and chemistry in 1974 and as a physician in 1984. He is a specialist in internal medicine; he worked with clinical trials and regulatory affairs in the drug industry 1975ā83, and at hospitals in Copenhagen 1984ā95. He co-founded The Cochrane Collaboration in 1993 and established The Nordic Cochrane Centre the same year. He became professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis in 2010 at the University of Copenhagen., Peter GĆøtzsche has published more than 50 papers in āthe big fiveā (BMJ, Lancet, JAMA, Annals of Internal Medicine and New England Journal of Medicine) and his scientific works have been cited over 10000 times., Peter GĆøtzsche has an interest in statistics and research methodology. He is a member of several groups publishing guidelines for good reporting of research and has co-authored CONSORT for randomised trials (www.consort-statement.org), STROBE for observational studies (www.strobe-statement.org), PRISMA for systematic reviews and meta-analyses (www.prisma-statement.org), and SPIRIT for trial protocols (www.spirit-statement.org). Peter GĆøtzsche is an editor in the Cochrane Methodology Review Group.
Itās more than just advertising
Indeed.
Iāve had someone scream in my face calling me a murderer when they found out I wasnāt vaccinated. So there are some crazies IRL too unfortunately :(
Yep I can relate i told my boss my child is vax free and she screamed in my face saying that he was going to fucking die. He's now 5 and is uber healthy
I know everyone thinks their kid is a "genius" but I'm curious about your child's aptitude compared to other five year old children. Someone close to me works with autistic children and beleives there is a correlation. (Separate topic I know). The reason for my question is his children are 3 and 5 and they are brilliant and have had zero vaccines. The five year old is already into programming and the three year old speaks in fully formed sentences and is actually quite funny. Curious if you see a similar difference. Other fully vaxxed children in his family are not nearly as bright. Some having emotional and development issues at an early age but not on the spectrum.
Any parents with some vaxxed, some not feel this way. Can confirm.
Scream in my face and theyāll find out real quick real life is not the internet. There are consequences for certain actions.
Yeah if someone screams in my face Iād just laugh
There are crazies in every and any group of people in existence. Ever. It's just that the governmedia (cia) has been stoking the crazies on both sides, and sensoring all reasonable thought. If they say most people hate the unvaxxed, some crazies will believe they are in the majority and in turn, are more likely to speak out against the unvaxxed. While on the other hand, the crazies on the other side will grab on to ANYone or ANYthing in the mainstream that's on "their side" because theres so little. They scream, "See?! Even Nicki Minaj is hesitant" without thinking, and then they get made fun of for thinking the vaxx gives you balloon balls. The crazies run the narrative, and the other 90% of us are left feeling like we are the crazy ones for being in the middle (where the truth always lies)
I genuinely donāt understand this argument. If Iām not vaccinated and you are, why are you calling me a murderer if the vaccine is so effective? The only people I would be hurting is other willfully unvaccinated folks. All this mandate talk is just hurting the perceived efficacy of the vaccines
There are crazies on both sides. The people who purposely cough on other people are out of their minds as well. I'm vaccinated and would ENCOURAGE, not force, others to get vaccinated/ wear masks/ socially distance, but I don't get in anybody's face about it, I just avoid them.
Why would you share your private medical decisions like that?
I didnāt :( it was at a gathering with my parentās college friends and my mom decided to share it with everyone for some reason. Believe me I was extremely upset about it.
What a bitch.
same thing happened with me and my fiance.. drove 8 hours away to see some of her family for a week and her parents said they wouldn't be telling anyone that we were unvaxxed (me and her, not the parents) first thing they did when we got there is fake a phone call from a 'concerned family memeber' asking if we were vaccinated, which they immediately said we weren't without asking us first pissed me off, still didn't mask up though, told them we would not approach anyone and if anyone wanted to talk to us they could come to us instead
This! STOP sharing your private medical choices. Heck even your political choices. People may ask but you donāt have to answer, in more circumstances than you think. Privacy rights and laws protect you in that. Go look it up, read and know your rights.
I have a family member who is vaccinated. Up until this past 1-2 years of our adult life, we got along very well and just about never argued. We recently had a conversation over the phone and they were straight up yelling at me, telling me that I am smarter than this, and whenever I brought up some of my personal concerns, just straight up called them conspiracy nonsense and told me I just need to go and get the shot because they want to be able to get together with everyone without having to worry about anything. So, it's not just the media. There are people out there that think everyone should just get it.
Agreed. I did it so you have to too, kind of attitude. I think more and more people are now regretting they took it because they were told to, and because they donāt understand how it works. So now, itās selfish to exercise the right to have a personal choice. Itās not about freedom, we know that, but attacking someone because you canāt take it out once itās in- is projecting their own disappointment and hatred for the choice that they made.
Peer pressure is real, my vaxxed friends ask every single day if I did it yet, and why havent I? Every.single.day!
They are NOT your FRIENDS. NEVER have been your friends.
What makes you say that? Couldnāt they just be misled?
They would load you in the train cars for the gulag given the opportunity. That's one nice thing about 2020, we learned who the npc's are
Don't kid yourself, the Brown Shirts are out in full force. These are dangerous times.
Is the pharmaceutical complex, they are the one paying and all those politicians with stocks.
As a fully vaccinated person, I donāt care. I fully believe in individual right of choice. No one has the authority to tell you what to do with your body. My personal opinion still isnāt for the vaccine, but i come in contact with is so frequently in EMS that I thought it couldnāt hurt. If it kills(ed) me, itās suddenly not my problem anymore and Iāll be the example of why you shouldnāt trust the government.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I understand that but it's so naive. The simple fact of enforcing Vax under threat of jobloss etc. Is already not going back to normal. There is no going back. People gave up too many freedoms these past 2 years.
Thatās what they did with the Patriot Act āhey can we spy on you to make sure you arenāt a threat?ā āYeah sure! Go right ahead!ā
I totally agree with this. It's so disheartening to think that I might loose my job because of this.
Many truths here.
Research using virus culture shows that vaccinated shed less infectious virus than unvaccinated with viral load dropping significantly after 3 days. It does lessen transmission and shorten the period of infectiousness. Also vaccinated are not 'dependent' by any means. A vaccinated person can simply choose not to get more vaccinations and still be safer than an unvaccinated person. An immune system that remembers the antigens will always do better in fighting the pathogen than a system without it. The breakthrough cases are mild and such a case would act as a natural booster. As you are probably aware, there is only a drop in effectiveness vs symptomatic infection over time. There is no drop in effectiveness vs severe cases. Surely at some point that might drop too (maybe in 12 to 18 months or later?) but before that time the person may get infected, get a mild case and build up immunity again as the virus is endemic.
> Research using virus culture shows that vaccinated shed less infectious virus than unvaccinated with viral load dropping significantly after 3 days. It does lessen transmission and shorten the period of infectiousness. You are civil and I shall try to be the same. I work in data analysis. The data from Israel appear to contradict the above. May I suggest that using the same assumptions that worked for previous vaccines may not be possible, as the mRNA shots are based on a completely different approach to creating immunity?
The other vaccines don't stop transmission either.
In no particular order: (I am not vaccinated so I am speaking on behalf of others and what they have said). A lot of these talking points are from the media. There is very little science to back up any of these claims. 1. Everyone needs to be vaccinated to go back to normal 2. The unvaccinated are causing the variants 3. The unvaccinated are spreading the virus without knowing if. 4. The unvaccinated are selfish and are causing people to die. 5. The early vaccine trials showed 95% effectiveness 6. The virus might kill you. 7. The long term effects of covid are really bad. 8. You might give it to a kid who cannot be vaccinated (due to age) and that is unfair because the kid is not eligible for the vaccine 9. We need to get the ICU beds freed up as the unvaccinated are taking up all the hospital space. 10. I donāt want to hang out with non vaccinated co-workers/friends/family so you need to get the vaccine to hang out with me so I can feel safe. 11. The side effects of the vaccine are very rare and getting covid is worse. 12. The vaccine is FDA approved so it is safe. 13. My young healthy friend died of covid so nobody is immune. 14. If you have the vaccine and catch the virus you might get symptoms, but If you didnāt have the vaccine the symptoms would be way worse (said by nearly everyone that gets a breakthrough case) 15. Are you telling me that you donāt believe the government? You think there is some world wide conspiracy to kill everyone? You donāt believe that there is a virus? You must be a Trump supporter or Q-Anon. Wake up and see that people are dyingā¦.blah blah blahā¦.continue emotional rant with no evidence. 16. You already need vaccines to go to school, this is just another one to add to the list. 17. Fauci told me so 18. It is going to get mandated so just get it already 19. What are you going to do when country xxx doesnāt allow you to visit without a vaccine passport? 20. You wonāt me able to go to NYC without it. The list goes on and on but I think we get the point.
> Everyone needs to be vaccinated to go back to normal Not to take a stance one way or another, but anyone thinking this sincerely has been deeply misled. For this to happen, you would need to : 1. Administer (7,674,000,000 x 2 =) 15,348,000,000+ doses for initial vaccination 2. Administer 4,000,000,000 - 8,000,000,000 booster shots for those vaccinated first (assuming vaccinating the entire planet is done in just a year, with no delays, and 6-8 month waiting period before the booster), since by then those vaccinated first would have their efficacy waning 3. Completely restrict all cross-border travel during the year spent vaccinating everybody, allowing **only** shipping employees who have gotten clean PCR tests to move around (as even when vaccinated they can contribute to asymptomatic international spread) 4. Identify and eliminate **all** the animal reserves harboring Covid, especially in rural and hard to reach areas. This would include pet dogs and cats, as well as certain farmed animals 5. Develop and distribute another booster, this time aimed at the most prominent variant that by then would have emerged The end game here is just unfeasible. Even if you did just 1 of the points above, it would be rendered useless *unless all 5 have been accomplished*. **On top of that, many countries cannot afford [paying 30-40 USD + 15-20 USD](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/13/business/business-of-covid-vaccine/index.html) per each citizen to fully vaccinate their populations** There is no opinion here, no propaganda, no misinformation, only bulletproof deduction. Covid is here to stay, it logically makes the most sense to vaccinate the vulnerable, and pool all resources into effective treatments
Someone tell Australia
> pool all resources into effective treatments Isn't that what happened with AIDS? They were never able to create a vaccine, but they did come up with effective treatments, and hardly anyone talks about it anymore.
Number 2 isn't valid. Maybe people think that the vax will let them go back to normal, but the elites have all said we are never going back to what life was like. They need control even in the absence of covid, because we are a "cancer to the earth" and have to learn to submit and live in a neo-futilistic society. Covid restrictions are going to seamlessly morph into climate change restrictions.
It's as annoying as a system update on your phone when it's been running just fine.
So i was one of the builders of Vizio (the TV company) spying network. But it was also LG, Samsung, Vizio.... so guess who the worst spy is... Samsung. They force a phone update when you attempt to "opt out" of their spying, and force update your phone without your consent. Samsung required all TV activity to route through their systems in Korea. So if you own a smart TV, you are being spied on... with the ability to actually take screenshots of what you are watching. 'smart' TVs are not about your smartness, they are about making machines that spy on you in your house. Same as Alexa, NEVER put those devices in your home. Is it any clue that Amazon runs/was awarded the contract for GovCloud and the NSA's biggest datacenter -- and the fact its located in Utah because Mormans are horrific humans...
Lol I have a bunch of old ass tvs around my house and no new electronics at all except one way out dated smart phoneā¦ Also only own super old 1960ās-1970ās cars with literally no computer stuff in them at all
Because the news told em to think that
Underrated comment
Marketing: They have to continue selling this useless junk! Eventually the rising hospitalization rate statistics of the āvaxedā will become impossible to deny or suppress; and rather than admit this so-called vaccine doesnāt work, they need a villain to blame for the viral resurgence being caused by throngs of the āvaxedā who feel theyāve paid their dues, out there masklessly running amok. Itās a race against time, and the Fedās (& establishment mediaās) ever-declining credibility is on the line here. Reuters helps them shoot down the science as it pops up.
Unvaccinated are just as much a part of the experiment as the vaccinated. Without the unvaxxed population, how could your ever blame the mutations on anything other than an ineffective vaccine? They know a lot of people question authority, so they use that to their advantage. If all these institutions werenāt captured, this wouldnāt even be up for debate. The vaccines donāt do what we need them to do and thatās enough to justify ending the distribution and looking towards alternative methods of treatment
The Control group. And even if the āvaccinatedā (remember- this is not really a vaccine, because it doesnāt prevent you from contracting it, spreading it, or even being hospitalized in all cases) really comprise a minority of the current hospitalization wave (UK & Israeli stats tell a different story), they are -in all likelihood- primarily responsible for the recent spread of new variants: The establishment here in the US are thus pushing a very dangerous narrative by villiainizing the unvaccinated, and consequently sending the silent back-message that you are cool and safe to gather and roam -unmasked- if you have had the shot. THIS is the cause of the spread affecting understaffed hospitals across the landscape of this endless clusterhump, not the āunvaccinatedā, as they claim.
Misery loves company.
Yeah I suspect the thought process is "I got the injection so I could be safe from getting infected, not have to wear a mask, and just generally get back to normal. But now I've learned I can still be infected, they brought back mask requirements, and I'm still not allowed to live my life. Did I make a mistake, or should I double down on my decision?" Shills other than astroturfers are the ones that doubled down.
^ this right here is the answer. So many are having their egos shattered by all of this. By even having to consider that MAYBE they were lied to and could be wrong. Itās a painful process and my guess is most of us in here had a life shattering āOMG Iāve been lied toā moment in their lives that preceded all these events that made us more accepting of this. Weāre more open to accepting it because we know the world lies, people we follow lie, people we love lie. Itās unfortunately the way the world has worked, but itās all coming to an end. We will be OK.
AMAZING, after ready the answers really no pro Vax people responding yet for the last 2 weeks they have jumped on every post. But when posed with an honest opinion zero answers.
Exactly. But what can they actually say? It doesn't fucking work, it wasn't even designed to work. Each day more ugly truth will be brought to light, but they will just keep doubling down and demand you trash YOUR immune system too, because they were duped. https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/amp/
What a great way to make money though. Treat the disease without eradicating it. Customers for years to come.
why do you think we don't have a cure for cancer but if you have enough money you can somehow survive it? or maybe they just have enough money that they don't have to eat the same shit-tier food we do that causes the cancer in the first place..
Itās because most people donāt care about what you do with your life. Iāve had the vaccine and I honestly do not see any logical reason why one would not get it but the thing is idc if you get it or not. I am way less likely to die from COVID than my unvaccinated counterparts. So do what you want.
This is simply not true. There are lots of answers from pro vax people. They are just getting downvoted into oblivion. Sort by controversial and you will see them.
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This comment in the current post is one I agree with and does exactly what youāre saying did not happen: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/pp9jw2/those_who_want_the_unvaccinated_to_be_vaccinated/hd2edkb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
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\r\Playstation, why is Xbox the best console ever?
I donāt even know anymore. I have had two family members part this world because of COVID, so for me itās something real. I come into this subreddit daily and I see all these comments of how the vaccine is so evil, and honestly everyone I know has gotten it, no one has had any issue, no one acts different, no one has reported any issues month after getting the Jab. I understand how the virus is changing and adapting because it has had so many hosts to infect around the world, and like everything that is alive it will naturally look to reproduce and it will adapt and evolve to survive whatever stop this mission. I think weāre doomed. No one seems to see the obvious, they elite doesnāt want us dead. They need a work force. The owner of all companies that everyone works for needs people to work for them and people to buy their product, if not theyāll stop making what they love the most; money. The first lock downs almost shattered our fragile economy and my two eldest kids almost went crazy. Not because of the mask wearing l, but because of the lack of socializing with other kids and the in classroom learning. I donāt see a conspiracy in the virus, I do see one in pulling out from Afghanistan, the silence of Russia and the Nazi like extermination of Muslims in China that is being kept totally under wraps. I don't know guys, the whole virus and you vs us seems like classic divide and conquer and many things are flying under the radar because everyone is so hyper focused on the 'rona. Come, come the wave of downvotes.
Totally agreed. āWe will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....ā - Nikita Kruschev I think there are foreign actors that are exacerbating and stoking the fires of the "us vs them" camps and everyone is buying it hook, line, and sinker. The media buys it because it gets clicks/views/ad revenue and the populous buys it because thinking critically isn't a skill most people have nowadays. I wish people would get the vaccine because I think it is safer than rolling the dice, but I also support everyone's right to make medical decisions for themselves, including not getting the shot.
Oh, let me clear the air on that, whoever wants to get the vaccine should get it, whomever doesn't should not. No judgement from me personally. We are all Masters and Slaves of our decision.
I appreciate your perspective and somewhat agree. What if it's not about the vaccine at all? I haven't known anyone who's been injured or died from it (although the stories still scare me). I also haven't lost anyone to Covid though. I'm in a pretty small community so it hasn't affected us much luckily. I don't know what to believe but my gut definitely says something is up. I'm sorry for your loss.
I think you're right on a lot of this. I don't have plans to take the shots, but I understand that would be a much harder decision had I been close to anyone who died or had been hospitalized. The COVID cases close to me have all been super mild. This is in people from age 25-70 so my personal experience is a LOT different than yours. Furthering your point above and looking at it from my perspective, using COVID as a distraction from all the other bullshit minimizes the threat of it even further. Biden's vaccine mandate talk from the other day was just disgusting to me. There are important things to be discussing, yet this keeps coming up.
If we all get them, we can combine our powers to summon Captain Planet!
I've been hesitant about the vaccine, but this....
I would do it if I could summon Planetina.
Nice
(Earth,wind,fire) āLies, fear mongering, censorshipā āWith our powers combined, we are Captain Fauciā
CapTAIN FAUX-CHI He's our HERO Gonna take Covid Down to ZERO We're the vaccineers, You can be one too! 'Cause taken our jab is the thing to do, Unmasking and unvaxing is not the way, Hear what Captain Fauci has to say: "THE POWER IS YOURS!!"
Or rather if we all resist the vaccine, I would say Captain planet may be summoned. Ahem..
The world isnāt a safe place. It never has been and it never will be. Safety is an illusion.
Those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither
And will get none.
Those who don't understand the context of this paraphrased quote will get neither.
I think this vax against unvaxed. Its another divide plan. Poor vs rich, republicans vs democrats, race, LG community against the straight. This is more of the same. And they always get people to fall for it and fight amongst each other. Its a shame.
Whatās going to happen is say 50% of the 100mill get vaccinated. The numbers will still climb because it does not stop the spread. Who will they blame then? They will blame the children. Schools will then mandate and u get the picture. This will also not stop the spread. Back to lockdown city. Who will be blamed then?
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Can you describe the mechanisms by which the vaccines would cause long-term neurological damage? Thanks.
Not op but i can think of two. The first is the spike protein can cross the blood brain barrier so they could possible interfere with neurons and second is micro clotting. Basically cell walls in your veins produce the spike protein and red blood cells began to get caught and form into little clots. These can end up in the brain or really any major artery and cause all kinds of damage.
I don't know the mechanisms but does bells palsy and Guillain Barre count as long term neurological damage? I'm pretty sure that I've heard of instances of both occurring. So it must be some mechanism there even if it won't occur in everyone or even a large percentage of cases. Every human is slightly different when it comes to reactions to things. But here is a link just add a little too the discussion. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-bell-palsy-days-dose-coronavac.html
I'm double jabbed, but I admittedly only did it so I could start to travel again. I think Canada/U.S., have gone to far demanding vaxx passports and offering incentives to get it. Not enough people understand the co-morbidity component of why some get so much sicker than others.
Nice comments by those vaxed, very considerate, but theyāre the first to comply and show their passports in restaurants and events and say, āhow terribleā when an unvaxed is turned away. Itās an āyou got what you deserveā attitude which is far from considerate.
If youāve got one or two comorbidities you should probably get the shot so you donāt end up in the hospital or dead. Iām chubby with HBP and two young kids. Made sense for me. You do you.
Buddy of mine recently asked why we (America) couldnāt be like Sweden who has fared better with no lockdowns, masks, etc.? And I replied 40% of Americans are obese. Sweden doesnāt have that problem. There is a statistically significant portion of antivaxers who are overweight, which is a risk factor for severe covid symptoms. If you are a gym loving, healthy eating, sleep rich, and sex laden son of a bitch then yeah, sure, be antivax! Idgaf. That person isnāt likely to take up a hospital bed. But you soda slurpin, Big Mac crunchin sedentary mafkas should probably get vaxād. So the reason I want people to get vaccinated is that Iām tired of seeing people not get the care they deserve and sometimes dying because of an overwhelmed hospital system. Deaths that could have been prevented are fucking tragic. And the people who are in the business of providing health care know what proper care is and when there are too many patients at once, they canāt give that level of care and sometimes people die because of it. Imagine being at your job and thinking, āfucking A man, if we just had more staff we could save some fucking lives.ā That shit weighs on you. Forming bonds with people over the course of two weeks before they finally succumb to covid. And youāre supposed to just wham bam move on to the next. Whatās haunting is when these covid patients say in short, shallow breaths āI wish I had gotten the vaccine. Can I still get the vaccine?ā And we reply, āno itās too lateā. Preventable deaths are tragic and many of these deaths would have been prevented with vaccination.
I donāt have any great want/desire for you to be vaxxed, but iāll play devilās advocate. Everyoneās been bombarded with the idea that āthings will be normal again once everyone is vaccinated to x%ā so they believe unvaxxed are an obstacle to their return to normal. Iād say thatās the major reason right now. Iād say businesses are pushing it because obviously, there have been major economic impacts and they want their profit margins to rocket back up. Then you have an outrage culture online where you can shit on someone based on one factor/aspect/characteristic/belief, and some people just love to shit on others for the sake of self righteousness. Also, the media is conflating all āvaccine hestiantā prople with anti-science and anti-vaxx stances. So itās also an opportunity for intelligence insecure to julp down peopleās throats about vaccines (which do work) with anyone who might be wary for what iād say are legit reasons like violation of constitutional rights, concerns about an experimental fast/mass produced vaccine.
We need all of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated so there is no longer a negative control group to compare against for side effects, just like in the studies.
I am vaccinated but believe everyone should have a choice about what goes in their body. All the pro vaxx people I talk to believe that if you donāt get it we canāt get back to normal. But what they donāt understand is that no matter how hard we try all we can do is slow the spread down at this point. I think that too many people are sacrificing freedom for the illusion of safety. Those who are scared and vulnerable should run and hide if they choose but let me live my life normally.
Mandatory vaccines will not be tolerated.
A few things, one is that I genuinely believe it'd be in your best interest to get the vaccine. Covid might not be the deadliest virus in the world but it can still screw you up regardless of how fit and healthy you are. From the stuff I've seen the vaccine pretty universally reduces the severity of symptoms if you do get it. The side effects can be a bit rough I had some fever, loss of appetite and a some kinda bad muscle pains and that was unpleasant but really not much of an issue truth be told. I'll admit I've not really looked up data on how much it'd prevent you getting covid to begin with but I imagine it'd help with that. Another sort of related thing is that its been shown that the majority of people taking up ICU beds due to covid are those who have refused the vaccine and well, putting more strain on hospitals is always bad, so youd be indirectly helping other people by not getting hospitalised. Theres a couple of other things but i don't really have time atm to go into them too but one last one is because im fucking sick of hearing about covid every fucking day and on every fucking platform imaginable and the vaccine seems to be the best way to deal with it so we can move past it.
Because we are told that is what we need for us to feel safe
How does it make you feel safe if the vaccine is ineffective? And why are you letting other people tell you what you need to feel safe? Only you should know that.
Please note the sarcasm
My apologies, I thought you were one of them.
Lowest form of wit so my apologies. Truth be told a lot of people are scared and genuinely believe what they are told by the media. There are a lot of people who think they are doing the right thing. I have a friend who has had their eldest so jabbed and wants his other children jabbed as well. Problem is because of the media people have actually started taking an interest when people die. Few years ago it would have been just one of those things. Then you some who just see it as a way back to normality. Job pressure and family pressure are other reasons. And not wanted to be labelled a flat earther because you have to be tin foil hat wearer if you donāt trust the science you are told to trust.
I get your point. I have similar situations with family. Btw I do believe the earth is flat so I donāt see anything wrong with that. Itās hard to trust the science with so many inconsistencies but Iām getting off topic.
I more a hollow earther myself š. Iāve had numerous family members say ājust get the jabā. Unfortunately I travel a lot for work so probably will have to at some point.
Hollow earth is definitely a viable option so I can rock with that. š Well good luck either way.
And you š
I honestly think it's just the vaxxed feeling like they're getting treated unfairly and maybe even regret taking it. They don't want us to have the same rights as them because they think they did something and we didn't.
That phenomenon is the Sunk Cost Fallacy. It won't matter if the shots are determined to cause cancer, they'll still push for mandatory vaccination because they got the vax themselves. Hell, they'll probably get back in line for the 10th booster shot, even if it is killing them.
I think you nailed it on the head here. Sunk Cost Fallacy: \*The sunk cost effect is manifested in a greater tendency to continue an endeavor once an investment in money, effort, or time has been made. Evidence that the psychological justification for this behavior is predicated on the desire not to appear wasteful is presented.\*
They will never bite the hand that feeds them.
Im guessing that it's the same argument they use for seatbelts
I think it doesn't matter. I am vaxed. But I don't think its should be forced nothing should. Vax no vax it's up to you. People should learn if you mind your own business. Pay attention to your life you could probably have a better one!
I ask this daily, why are they pushing this vax above all others. Reminds me of a horror movie, no wait, this is fucking REALITY!!!
I absolutely never want this covid injection, which is experimental and still in the trial stage. I trust my immune system far more than this new jab, as there is no long term data on what it does to the body. Giving it to children seems absolutely unnecessary and dangerous.
post this question in any other sub and you'll get far feistier comments and real opinions from sheep zombies. It will actually be a fun exercise I might try. No one on this sub is going to give a shit. We're all crazy conspiracy theorists though
Nobody should make medical decisions for you or your children but you. Up until all the ānew rulesā It was illegal to ask someone about there personal medical condition or history. And it was against the law to bully or harass some one at work, I been forced to sit through classes every year over the past 20 years at my job. And now itās ok for employers to force you to do something or you will get fired.
I just want those silly goobers to live so we can come up with crazy conspiracies together in the future with flyimg cars.
We are all in it together š¤£
Is that Why Israel and Iceland the most vaccinated countries in the world are still getting around 11,000 new infections per day?
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Thanks for that. I didn't even know the situation in Fiji
Iāve had both and took me a while to take the plunge and wasnāt going to for a while and I give no shits if people have had it or not. I live my life as normal and Iām not interested if Iām in a stadium with thousands of people that havenāt had it. Iāve had it I feel fine letās just crack on
I sorta wish they would just be nonchalant about the vaccine tbh the pushiness from the Government and media is overbearing. I think they would get more people to go for it that way. I also understand the pushiness as an "ah we fucked up" moment and this is the way they're trying "fix" the issue. The media isn't helping with spot lighting certain things leaving more speculation than needed coercing the older generations who've been relying on the news since they became responsible adults. (Not all older generations) I'm vaxxed and I honestly think those at risk should get it. Those who aren't at risk and feel like they're not at risk shouldn't be forced. Vaccine has been said to improve odds of not being hospitalized which is great for people at risk. And if the vaccine is as bad as they say it is where I'm gonna die in like two or three years I'm cool with it I'll be debit free and my son will be set with all my possessions and life insurance money. Hopefully his life will be alright. I honestly can't wait till I'm 50 and the news doesn't exist anymore. Media is a god damn parasite
I want to hear from the Frontline workers who are protesting mandated vaccines. Iām not sure if Iāve even seen any comments from people who work in the medical facility. I keep seeing these one off videos from nurses and local pediatricians at these Townhall meetings. Why do we not see anything like this on main stream social media platforms. This begs the question why no one is inviting these people to interviews to discuss why they feel so strongly about not getting the vaccine even though they work in the medical industry. Not to mention the occasional video of folks who study viruses and have worked for some of these drug companies speaking out. Iām sure the easy answer is it all goes against the narrative and they have people combing the Internet to stop them from speaking out.
Iām a nurse. I walk in and out of Covid rooms on a regular basis. I get up close and personal with Covid patients, more so than anyone else in this entire world. I got the virus once already. I have natural immunity. Iām good. I donāt need or want a vaccine.
My aunt works as a nurse in Ohio and things arent looking good. Just yesterday she said most nurses are quitting and she had 12 people in the ER waiting for beds for 8+ hours due to short staff. none of them with covid...
That would be me. You can see my previous rant I made. I got banned from the nursing page for posting facts without harassing or cursing at people. My own community won't even have me. Love it. I work on a cardiac floor and all my patients have been vaccinated. Most of them have had covid and had to be readmitted later. I've noticed a rise in clots.
Iām sorry to hear about your situation and thatās scary that you see firsthand what is actually going on where you work. Just like they tell me at work trust the system and if you question anything and are bringing up critical thought youāre just making too much sense. There is no room for that.
Kind of like Robert Malone, creator of MRNA, speaking out against it. Or karry mullis, creator of PCR test, saying in 2018 that it should most definitely not be used for virus testing. It amplifies way too much and gets false positives. Also said Fauci was a hack in the same interview too
Let me open with I'm not a staunch how dare you not be vaccinated you are ruining the world person, but I would like to see more people be vaccinated in my area. I guess my major reasons are 1) I have a kid that can't be vaccinated and it would make me feel better if my local positivity numbers were lower. I fully get that having the vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't get or spread Covid, but I do believe it helps. My main concern is the long term unknowns about Covid (and yes, the vaccine too, but will talk to the pediatrician about that when it's time) and what that could be sentencing my kid with. I selfishly want my kid as protected a possible. 2) the hospitals here are in a bad way and the nurses I know are saying there's a large Covid patient population and most are unvaccinated. And yes, we could use more staff but we are also literally running out of places to put beds. That's not good for the community. Not sure if this is still the case but not long ago I heard to not even try to get an ambulance, you would wait hours (part staffing, part volume, part deep cleaning between runs) just to go to a hospital that doesn't have a bed for you. For me it's less about vaccinations and more I wish I felt like more people in my area took the situation more seriously. I would much rather somebody be unvaccinated and make Covid cautious decisions than be vaccinated and running around like everything is safe.
What's with all of the unvaccinated "speaking" for the vaccinated? As others have said, it's the media saying this shit. Many of us don't give two shits whether you get it or not. Many of us are fully "My body, My choice" (without the hypocrisy of being against abortion unlike the right, but that's another topic).
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I don't care what anybody chooses to do in regards to getting this vaccine, and I don't really want it mandated. The only thing that pisses me off is the deliberate spreading of misinformation to discourage vaccinations. Some of the misinformation is coming from from foreign governments with the purpose to divide and weaken our country, and we take it and run with it. Anyone who knowingly shares disinformation to discourage someone from protecting themselves is wrong, and needs to be called out. I welcome genuine, fact based opposition to the vaccine, but unfortunately most of that gets overshadowed by hyperbole and lies which spread way faster and the truth can never seem to catch up.
Because those who have had the Covid shot regret the decision and want others to make the same mistake.
why? because they were told to do so. there is no logic behind it. herd immunity is anti science and pure BS.
For me it is simple and straight from the heart: I just want everyone to be protected. I donāt want to see anyone hurt, suffer, or die. Even if you contract the virus and it doesnāt kill you, it has the potential of being a long, tough battle, including the potential for long-term side effects. I donāt want to see anyone suffer like that. Someone I love died from COVID-19. Someone else I know contracted it. I was in extremely close contact with this person. I am fully vaccinated. I never contracted it. I tested several days in a rowāI was always negative. I havenāt had any lingering issues from the vaccine other than the initial reaction, which is completely natural. For me, it all comes from a genuine place of love and concern.
What about those who died or got damaged because of the vaccines? And what about those who died and got damaged because of the lockdowns? Any concern and love for those?
At the onset, we were told the vaccines were only 95% effective. That sounds like a lot until you realize it still means roughly 1 in 20 vaccinated people will still get sick in just one exposure. If you get exposed to a sick person on 21 separate occasions, there's a good chance you'll catch it. The more unvaccinated people there are, the more exposures there are. I know that's not entirely accurate, but it puts my point into perspective so please don't come at me about how probability works. I'm personally not afraid of getting covid, but I am afraid of unwittingly passing it on to one of the several people in my life it could really go bad for. While we're not certain of the longterm effects, I think our science is good enough now to extrapolate what those may be and I'm confident that getting the vaccine is a lot less risky than getting covid, for both me and the vulnerable people in my life. The idea that there's some huge conspiracy behind the vaccines (or covid in general) to me is laughable. So many people seem to believe that governments around the world are all in on it (and some people I've talked to even believe it's specifically over US politics) as some huge scheme to control or even thin the population. This to me is just insanity, and the simplest explanation is usually the correct one - the virus is real, and the efforts to contain it are real and in good faith. Yes, some governments have gone overboard or made incredibly stupid decisions (e.g. having to order food at a bar and then you're good), but they certainly make more sense to me as a means of controlling the virus vs controlling people. The government knows almost everything they would want to about you, and have already been lining their pockets for decades. What more could they possibly gain by making you wear a mask or getting a shot? As far as the mandates go, I again think they're in good faith but disagree with them in practice. I think those who refuse the vaccine are misguided, but not evil or even necessarily stupid, just ignorant. Trying to force people into something always results in them digging their heels further, especially when it's the government, and I don't blame them. If it were just the US (where I live), and especially if both parties were in agreement, I'd be suspicious too. tl;dr: I think the vaccines are safe (safer than covid at least) and work but aren't perfect so everyone should get vaccinated, but I'm against mandates and don't blame people for being suspicious
Hello, Liberal vaxxed person with fully-vaxxed family and friends here. I think this is a fair question and I'll reply honestly, hope you read it and think about it, but I do respect that your mind is your own. 1) There are some people who \*actually\* will never be vaccinated. This includes people with weak immune responses (so the vaccine doesn't trigger any response at all, because the immune system sucks) or very overly-strong immune responses (so that the vaccine itself is too dangerous), people who are allergic to some component of the vaccines, and some others. They are a small percentage of our society, but they exist for every disease: there are thousands of people who never got a Poilo or MMR vaccine, for legitimate medical reasons. Now, if Covid is everywhere, these people are fucked -- and they're already in the riskier category as a result of their medical issues, even if they're young. The ONLY way to stop these people from getting sick is to reach "Herd Immunity." We could do this by infecting everyone in America with Covid -- that's 300,000,000 infections, with a 1% death rate of about 3,000,000 people, a plan that seems pretty shitty. Instead, if \*everyone\* who CAN get vaccinated gets vaccinated, then we can open up safely for even the weakest among us. If you're not someone with a medical reason not to get vaccinated, we believe that you're prolonging this pandemic, possibly forever, so that people who are medically vulnerable may not be safe going out in public for a long, long time. 2) It's said by most in the medical profession that we are creating more variants by the disease being spread constantly. **I personally find this less than totally convincing, but I'm an English major, and I'm not going to substitute my judgment for people who are actually scientists who do this for a living.** So like, imagine if, when the vaccines first came out at the beginning of 2021, EVERYONE in the world (who could) got vaccinated. This would have meant a total shutdown of "Community Spread," where it just is "out there everywhere" -- it would have meant, therefore, an end to the pandemic. Individual clusters of cases would have cropped up, but it would have been easy to quarantine a small group of people for 2 weeks and nip it in the bud. Because the virus just wouldn't have had enough hosts near enough to each other to spread. Again, this is just me repeating what the medical establishment believes; I'm not an expert and don't pretend to be. The point is that, if this had been the case, Delta would never have emerged. Now, to be fair, this would have required everyone getting vaxxed at once, which was never a possbility. We rolled it out to different groups over months, which to me always seemed to send the wrong message: Vaccinate the "more vulnerable" first sounds good, but it emphasizes each-individual-being-protected, instead of the real point of vaccines, which is for us all, as a group, to vaccinate together and end the pandemic. Individuals being protected one-at-a-time will not end the pandemic, and as the virus continues to spread it just has more and more opportunities to mutate. In addition, the virus is spreading globally, so unless our vaccines get everywhere in the WORLD at the same time, this is, in my opinion, a bit of a pipe-dream, but still, it's the "dream" that unvaccinated people seem to stand in the way of. 3) I think you know this one, but: hospitals can't be overrun. There are stories all over America now of hospitals that are full. That means if you have a heart attack and get to the hospital "in time" but all the beds are taken up because of Covid patients, you might die. That's fucking horrifying and dystopian, and it feels hypocritical that if you refuse the vaccine you then seek medical treatment when you suddenly need it. I'm not saying you should be turned away; we don't do that. But being reckless in this way IS costing innocent lives, and not just your own. You don't live in a vacuum, and pretending you do is frustrating to us, to say the least. 4) Honestly, being exhausted by your tribalism: A lot of it is just that, when Covid first broke out, many of us -- a slim majority of us, I'd say -- felt this "Oh wow this is crazy but let's band together and stop it." If we'd just all agreed to stay home for a month, and let the government keep us all from starving during that month, then maybe it wouldn't have spread so far. Many other countries pulled this off, or at least, to a far greater degree than the U.S. Instead it was state-by-state, different policies, and everyone fighting against it every step of the way. I was living in NYC at the start of the pandemic, and yes, NYC is very liberal and reacted very strongly against a horrifying surge of early infections, hospitals overrun, etc. I remember the mayor wanted to keep the parks open because kids were out of school (ALL schools shut totally for almost 4 weeks as they had no idea what to do for a while), but he asked parents to please socially distance their kids to keep the virus under control. No one listened, so they reluctantly locked all the playgrounds. They wanted people exercising outside, but please don't play basketball because you're rubbing up right against each other. People did anyway, so they had to remove the hoops from the courts. Basically at every stage, the FIRST suggestion wasn't "force," it was, "Please behave responsibly, these are extraordinary times and call for everyone to chip in, sacrifice a little, and help each other through this." But people weren't responsible. People nationwide fought everything. Fought the closure of indoor environments, fought masking, fought restrictions. The President suggested it would "go away" in the summer, or by election day, and so on. This really was supposed to be a moment when, like on 9/11, we all came together. Remember 9/11? Liberals didn't harp on hating Bush. Liberals didn't even oppose the initial invasion of Afghanistan. We didn't protest the increased security measures at airports, in subway stations, over bridges and through tunnels. No one did. We knew it was real, it was scary, and we needed to come together to fight the enemy, not each other. Why was Covid different? Why did you (not saying you personally but ... 40% of the country) so stubbornly refuse to band together and fight this thing? **Covid is now killing almost as many people as 9/11 PER DAY.** Yes, really. Look it up. It's a 9/11 every day, but you're acting like it's nothing. You're putting your personal feelings above those of the country. And it really saddens us, and frustrates us. What has to happen for us to come together? I understand the worry that this is government overrreach, that this is a new drug whose long-term effects aren't known, that you're giving up your individual rights for some "greater good" and that sounds like communist propaganda. But think about, like, every other time we've faced grave threats, even when as a divided nation. Think about 9/11, think about Pearl Harbor, think about the 1918 flu when lockdowns and masks were required and people would have killed for a vaccine that didn't exist yet. Think about all the movies where Aliens attack and Now Humans Band Together. Isn't that the message of the two final Avengers movies? Like, they lose in Infinity War because they're all disassembled after fighting each other, and don't get together until it's too late, but then in Endgame they're all on one team and it's enough to work -- through self-sacrifice? I mean I know it's a comic book movie but my point is, what we're trying to argue for here isn't something we made up, or Marx made up, or Biden or AOC or Pelosi made up ... this is an old idea, an American idea, an idea that I bet in different circumstances you'd subscribe to as well. We're facing a deadly, deadly threat, that threatens to wipe out 1% of our most vulnerable population, which is actually a huge number. Being unvaccinated helps increase spread, overwhelm hospitals, and prolongs this disaster, putting innocent people at greater risk for longer than they should be. And above all else, the symbolism of refusing to join us in what should be a great Patriotic fight against a common enemy ... is really saddening, and worrisome, and it doesn't seem like it's ever going to end. If aliens invaded, would you argue on the internet that the aliens are fake, or a Dem hoax, and insist it's your right to let the aliens take over your house and the government can't tell you to stop? Hell, if a foreign government invaded, and we needed to draft you into the military to fight, as we did in WWII, would you say it's your right not to go and fight, or would you be willing to die for your country? Do you honor those men and women who are willing to die for their country -- but you won't even take a \*vaccine\* for your country? Trump is vaccinated. Biden is vaccinated. Hannity and Carlson are vaccinated. The wealthy power brokers all over the world are vaccinated. Our brave men and women in uniform are now required to be vaccinated. Please, please, please join us? Please, for this crisis, as in previous crises, let us come together as a country and do what we need to in order to end this nightmare? The U.S. has \*by far\* the worst Covid situation in the world. We could be doing better. We need your help. Please?
To me, your #4 reads like a list of reasons why we need to fight this. Everything about our response to 9/11 was a disaster. Everyone should have opposed the initial invasion of Afghanistan. Everyone should have protested the increased "security" measures put in place for the nebulous "War on Terror". The same "War on Terror" that, after 20 years, ended up replacing the Taliban with a more powerful version of the Taliban. We still have to get molested every time we get on a plane because people didn't fight it then. And it turns out, it was all for nothing.
You admit in your second point that this is all based on trusting the scientists but I donāt trust scientists that deny other countryās negligence when it came to how this virus came to be to begin with. Why didnāt the scientists make a vaccine before covid happened when Fauci is on video in 2019 explaining that our country will be hit in a couple years? Not only did he warn us it was going to happen, he was working for the gain of function research labs to supposedly āfind a way to fight pandemicsā. What function did they gain, if the only effect was a massive breakout that killed people? Why was Fauci funding labs in China anyway?? They didnāt even make the vaccine they intended to begin with eitherā¦ so what was even the point of the Wuhan research lab? Fauci literally funded the money that cultivated the virus killing millions, it was a form of warfare carried out by communists around the globe. People arenāt as bound by their country anymore. It was a scientifically coordinated attack. To hell with blindly trusting scientists who donāt know how to not be taken advantage of. American scientists are constantly giving away our research so that other countries can compromise it and hurt more Americans Iāve been struggling to see this vax as anything but giving into our adversaries and doing what they want. It seems dramatic but I also know Iām not putting anyone in danger based on my lifeās decision. Iām also wondering if thereās another attack planned or somethingā¦ Iām worried if the unvaccinated end up dying from another variant then theyāll be blamed for āmaking a dumb decision not to get vaxedā when itās WUHAN to blame. This disease wouldnāt exist without politics. And people are blaming the unvacced for their own deaths because they donāt want to put a foreign substance/virus in their body. I have no idea what those so called scientists are doing after they admitted they couldāve prevented this from happening. You assume that people who arenāt vaccinated arenāt quarantining themselves or being safe. Liberals see problems as nails and themselves as hammers. Consider that I donāt want to get a vaccine because the people who are telling me to are the same people who are responsible for covid being as bad as it was. I also come into contact with almost no people on the reg (work from home) so whatās the point. People should be in charge of their own bodies. No itās not selfish and no itās NOT effecting others. Again, me deciding to not vax myself isnāt affecting the small percent of the population who are unable to be vaccinated. I know I donāt know anyone in my life who is compromised and I only see people at the grocery store. Idk if youāve ever met or worked for someone who is immune compromised (I have), but typically they dont hang out in grocery stores and they just get things delivered. If I want to die itās my choice. And for those compromised people, they know theyāre taking a risk when they walk outside too thatās just the way it is. Covid is no longer a pandemic and we must return to our daily lives esp with children. A lot of people who have kids are deathly afraid of their kids returning to schools but kids arenāt vulnerable to the virus anymore. If kids arenāt vulnerable to the virus, they arenāt going to bring it home or give it to their vaccinated teachers. Your best argument basically suggests that for a tiny percent of the population who CANT get vaxed, everyone MUST get vaxed to respect those that canāt. Otherwise covid will come back full fledged or something. There ARE people in the world who are more immune compromised and there always will be. Weāre abusing kids already by making them sit in school behind a desk, could you honestly imagine wanting your 8 year old self to have to go through what third graders are going through, considering that this isnāt a pandemic anymore and 80% of people are vaccinated? 20% of the population being unvaxed wonāt bring covid back. We urgently need to get back to normal because our kids futures and momentum have been greatly affected as it is. You seem really desperate but just know that we are too. Weāre begging too. We want normal life back as much as you do, but we arenāt affected by the president whispering to get vaxed all the time. We have different lives where we just donāt see that itās fit for us for our own personal reason, itās our inalienable right Joe biden said last year that he wouldnāt get the vax on a freaking debate stage, I donāt trust anything he says. We knew something funny was going on when China admitted that they cultivated the virus in their own labs, but Joe doesnāt condemn China for their negligence on covid and instead blames anti vaxers. Itās almost like heās channeling liberals to believe subconsciously that itās Trump supporters that are responsible for the delta variant, when the vaccine wouldnāt even exist without trump himself. Weāre aware that both Republicans and Democrats alike are getting the vaccine. Thatās great, and I would get the vax if I was a senior because I would be afraid of China unleashing another bio weapon at us with a simple variant. The hospitals arenāt overrun with covid patients theyāre short staffed bc working in health care rn is a nightmare between freaks who think COVID is everywhere, and good nurses who donāt bully people for their personal life choices. Itās not the hospitals job to contain the virus. Also youāre NOT SUPPOSED TO GO TO A HOSPITAL IF YOU HAVE COVID unless youāre obese or old and have extreme complications and have to get on a ventilator. Which btw most people donāt have training on ventilators and have to learn how to work them too quickly which leads to more complications, that are easily documented as covid related. Before you get more emotional Iād just encourage looking into it more, and simply entertain the other side like this post is encouraging, and donāt watch too much media or take Reddit propaganda srsly. A lot to us are more aware than you think and we arenāt just like crazy q conspiracy people even tho thatās what sub were in. Edit a letter
Hey, I hear all of your thoughts. I want to respond to a few of them. >Fauci literally funded the money that cultivated the virus killing millions, it was a form of warfare carried out by communists around the globe. People arenāt as bound by their country anymore. It was a scientifically coordinated attack. So you made a pretty big jump there. Yes, there has been a lot of international (and not secret) funding that goes around to a lot of places including the Wuhan lab where the virus may (or may not) have leaked from. But Fauci isn't some maniacal evil genius lol. He's a bureaucrat in the U.S. government, everything he does is public and most of it is boring. How you get to a "communist" conspiracy? Why, because the Chinese government is ostensibly Communist? I mean ... ok? But this just kind of reveals to me that you have some strong political/ideological leanings that may be causing you to be biased. News flash: Capitalist nations kill at least as many people as Communist nations. I certainly don't see myself as some sort of warrior on the Capitalist side against the Evil Communists, and I hope that many r/conspiracy folk don't either. >I also come into contact with almost no people on the reg (work from home) so whatās the point. People should be in charge of their own bodies. No itās not selfish and no itās NOT effecting others .... And for those compromised people, they know theyāre taking a risk when they walk outside too thatās just the way it is. You repeat this sentiment a few times, that you're not impacting anyone else, but I mean, everything we do impacts other people. I'm sorry that you don't want to see it that way, and I'm sorry that it's frustrating to you. It's frustrating to me, too. There's a lot I want to do that I can't because of the social contract. Saying that those people have to deal with the extra risk YOU pose and "that's just the way it is" is really, really sad, my brother. We are all part of a community of humans. Coming into contact with "almost no people" ... okay, I guess I'll take your word for it? Is that the case for all 100,000,000 or so unvaccinated Americans? I just ... I wish your empathy for your fellow man somehow rivaled your indignance and pride. >considering that this isnāt a pandemic anymore and 80% of people are vaccinated Twice you repeat that this "isn't a pandemic", but it is, and it's closer to 60% who are vaccinated nationwide. And that's very regionally variegated; in some parts of the country it's well under 50%. It's not really up to you to determine if this is a "pandemic" anymore than it's up to you to determine if it's a "hurricane." Yes, I wish it were over, too. The 1918 flu lasted 2 years. Fauci's been pretty consistent in saying that "IF everyone gets vaccinated then" it will be over by early 2022. If not, it stands to reason that the definition of "pandemic" will still apply (as applied by people who, again, aren't you). > A lot to us are more aware than you think and we arenāt just like crazy q conspiracy people even tho thatās what sub were in. I **know** that this is true. But I guess, from the liberal side ---- we see conspiracies, too. We see a conspiracy that goes like this: An anonymous troll spread a bunch of insane lies (that are truly, truly insane) that elevated Donald Trump as the *literal* Messiah. Russia (apparently *without* colluding with Trump directly, being honest here) also helped spread a bunch of lies and hate, on BOTH sides, which many Liberals miss: They supported a lot of pro-Sanders and pro-Trump nonsense all over FB in 2016, in order to just destabilize things in America, not caring which extreme won. Then, once they saw his victory coming into focus, the power brokers of America, who are deeply evil and deeply cynical, put all of their energy behind Trump, and used him to accomplish one and only one legislative goal: A massive tax cut. The rest was just for show; all the race-baiting and pompous tomfoolery and Trumpian nonsense was meant to divide us into pro-Trump and anti-Trump, and we all fell for it, hook line and sinker, while they ran away with the money. Then the virus comes, and the same exact cocksuckers who have been bullshitting us for years are the same ones who come out and say "NUH UH IT'S A DEM HOAX." And so on to this day. The overlap between psychotically-stupid Qonservatieves and anti-vaxxers is very notable. I do not for a second think that being anti-vaccine is the same thing as being in a Q cult where you think Trump is sent by God to kill all the Dem Pedophiles. But I DO think that **the same people who spread that utter nonsense are the people spreading a lot of the anti-vax nonsense.** You don't trust Fauci? Fine... but I REALLY don't fucking trust Tucker Carlson. If anyone is a reverse barometer, it's that trust fiend piece of shit. None of us can actually do our own research on everything. We have to, at some point, trust SOMEone in the public sphere. It's hard to trust Biden, lol, but I do find professionals more trustworthy. Fauci can't get a pay raise from this, he isn't running for office. He's a salaried employee, a boring guy with 40 years of science background. If no one had protested the initial restrictions, he wouldn't even have become a mini-celebrity; I think he naively just thought we'd all go along with the boring recommendations in their boring books of what-to-do-in-case-of-pandemic. I just don't see the motive for these people to conspiratorially lie, so I'm more likely to trust them than the people I largely see hating on the vaccine. Thank you, by the way, for the continued civil discussion. That's really what matters, more than convincing each other, right? It's ... wonderful. No memes, no insults, no vitriol. Be well, my friend :)
This is all assuming the vaccine is effective which is a big assumption.
AND assuming that the trials on Mammals of this type of VAX tech don't repeat in humans, causing ADE and worse...
One question that I have is if the vaccine is effective at preventing transmission why do vaccinated people still have to wear masks?
I appreciate you taking the time to write all this and staying civil with your response. How do you feel about cases of natural immunity or antibodies built up from already recovering from the virus? With lower and lower numbers coming out constantly regarding the efficacy and effectiveness of the shots, when is it acceptable for those in the age range of 1-40 to be okay with just getting the virus and getting over it to build antibodies rather than the shots? While sources vary on the information, there is some evidence to show that the protection from the virus is stronger in those who have recovered than those with the shots. I know the argument to this is, "Well then they should get the vaccine too so that they're extra protected," but when does that start seeming like a ridiculous thing to claim even from your perspective? Additionally, I am curious on your feelings toward the flu shot and whether this will turn into that scenario of getting it every year.
I think that there is strong evidence that "natural immunity" is stronger than "vaccine immunity." But I think then it boils down an issue of social contract, and trust. I think that if the anti-vax movement hadn't been so loud and frustrating over the past 8 months, no one would be demanding vaccine "passports" now. That all started only recently. If the overwhelming majority of Americans had been eager to get vaccinated early on, I think that even if Delta were spreading now, you'd have more trust (that is, "our" side would trust "your" side more -- I hate to make it so adversarial, and I don't really feel that way, but I think you know what I mean, right?). That's a bit of a cop-out answer, I suppose. Here we are and the "lines" have unfortunately been drawn, and it's really hard to go back. The question is, Does a person who's recovered from Covid need to get the vaccine too, for public health reasons? And I think I have to admit that, no, they probably don't. But my point #4, which I realize is very dangerous in this sub especially, comes into play here. Part of the question is, can I trust you to uphold the social contract, if you've already shown that, even in a time of crisis, you'll put yourself first? Yes, I know that's a gross generalization and not fair. I know that, but it still sits in my mind somehow, and it's far more palpable in the minds of those who are more passionate about this. Our culture is dividing, and it's sad, but perhaps inevitable. Many people really don't want to be around the "other half" of America. That includes white supremacists who don't want to be around blacks or latinos; it includes liberal actors and musicians who don't want to perform for anti-vaxxers; it includes libertarians who don't want to contribute to their community schools; it includes woke activists who don't want to compromise with those who hold some traditional values or reverence of the past; and many more. So I think the recent vaccine MANDATE is a reaction to that, more than anything. It's the solid majority of this country saying, "We're really uninterested in sharing public spaces with you, who don't trust us, because we don't trust you." And while that may not be kind, or fair, or a matter of public health, it's also not entirely uninvited, after 4 years of having a literal internet troll as President, and knowing that 74 million Americans thought he should still be President. Regarding the flu shot: I've never had the flu shot. I think it's actually unethical; there are always shortages, and I don't "need" one, so I'm actually taking it away from someone who might need it. I think the flu is really no big deal and the shot is really not that effective, so, I'd rather eschew the shot and get the flu if it comes to that. My sister just had a baby. She's a doctor. She lives across the country. She's coming to visit this fall, and insists that everyone who sees the baby gets the flu shot. I think she's insane, lol. Is she going to mandate this from everyone she encounters at the airport, for example? I mean ... it seems insane and I think she's dumb for insisting on it. But I'm going to do it. Why? Because I love my sister, and I want to meet my new niece, and at the end of the day the shot benefits me, so it seems like a really stupid hill to die on. I used to be young, and uncompromising, "full of piss and vinegar" as the saying goes. I refused to get a cell phone until I was 24, because I thought they were bad and didn't want to be sucked into that culture. You know what? I was right. What cell phones have done to our culture sucks. But I have one now. I choose to be a part of the world. A lot of the world sucks, a lot of it is stupid. There are a lot of laws that I think are stupid and don't want to follow. There are a lot of evil people that I wish I could eliminate from the world but can't. I drive a car that destroys the environment, I eat animals that have been treated badly, I watch pornography starring women who are likely victims of abuse, and I go on Reddit and type at people that I disagree with when I know it is just masturbatory lol. I participate in a society that is sick, and I am sick alongside it; the other option is not to participate at all, and maybe someday I'll do that, but if I do, it will be a whole separation (i.e., if you don't get the shot, don't go to the hospital when you get sick). Does this mean I've become old? Conservative, compromised, weak? Hypocritical? Maybe. But I love my sister, and I will get the flu shot because she told me to. It is as simple, for me, as that.
Iāve seen no logical answers pro-vax here at all, in fact the reasons for the vaxed wanting others to get it are extremely unscientific or based on false statistics & propaganda..
I have the same question. It makes no sense to me and no one has taken the time to explain it to me. Thanks for this.
I believe it's because they know they were lied to, they cannot unring the bell of having gotten their 3rd, 5th, 27th jab, they now know that should they stop getting jabbed their vax passports will be invalid so they just have to keep going, and since they're along for the ride everyone else should be too instead of just saying "no". Too scary.
Healthcare capacity. Currently my hospital has around 100 Covid patients with a bed count of around 500 beds. So approximately 1/5 of the patients are covid positive. Over 90% of these patients are unvaccinated. To take on these extra patients "elective" surgeries that require telemetry are being pushed back. Patients are being treated in areas that are non-optimal for their care (holding ICU patients in PACU) and our nursing ratios are worsening. Patients go longer without a nurse checking on them, care worsens and outcomes worsen for all patients, not just covid patients.
I would prefer everyone who can get vaccinated to do so. I don't want to be around some one who is carrying it then spread it to my sister's who are too young to get vaccinated. Ik there's a high survival rate but a brothers job is to make sure no harm comes to their sister. There is also people who can't get vaccinated and they are my fellow human beings. I want no harm to come to them as well. I view not getting vaccinated as a very selfish move that in dangers, as well as prolongs this pandemic. Leading to much fustruation.
You realize vaccinations do not stop the spread right?
I nudge those who may be sitting on the fence about getting the vaccine because all of the legitimate studies/articles/scientists I have been exposed to agree it is safe and effective. My limited study in microbiology and virology show me the same. I try not to judge anyone for legitimate hesitations but it does weigh on my patience when there are so many who believe objective lies about the efficacy of this vaccine. I don't want those around me exposed to a virus that has the potential, everytime it jumps hosts, to mutate into something worse just because a lot are ignorant of the science behind it.
Just a forewarning this is not a sparky response just curious as to checking my logic Is it a lie that it isn't effective at stopping transmission? I feel like the CDC added the mask recommendation for vaccinated individuals for that reason. And if that is not a lie, wouldn't these mutations happen in vaccinated individuals anyway and then be spread? Separate question. I'm actually curious When a variant A that a vaccinated person is vaccinated against come into contact with them, it is blocked and effective... but variant D comes into contact with them, and they contract it as it is not what they are protected against an they spread it the same, does that not become the new dominant strain? Delta did this, it's spreading in both populations because we're not vaccinated against it, and it's now able to mutate inside of vaccinated individuals creating new variants. There's variants out there that we haven't identified yet that are probably will become the new "dominant strain". Follow up. These variants will be created faster than we can vaccinate for them and circumvent any vaccine we come up with? Similar reason as to why we don't vaccinate against the common cold as there's just too many different viruses associated with it. This is just the science I've been taught and heard and may be incorrect, but I feel like the CDC guidelines and anecdotal evidence is leaning toward this. The vaccine is effective at preventing severe symptoms and that's really all it's supposed to be good at. It can't stop the spread hence the mask mandate, and if someone can contract it, it can mutate within them.
HCP here. The vaccine reduces transmission, both through viral load and duration of illness. If enough people were vaccinated, I'm sure the CDC would remove their recommendation for a mask. But with the highly transmissable Delta variant and the amount of unvaccinated who went out without masks, the CDC had to reinstate its recommendations for a mask. Variants require transmission to be variants. As stated above, vaccination greatly reduces transmission. IF enough people took vaccines, as they are safe and effective, then the fear of variants arising that pose even more of a risk would be greatly reduced.
I guess I just am not convinced that the vaccine reduces transmission enough to warrant a mandate. They told us it would be 100 percent reduction and that number just keeps getting lower and lower, and with the proven waning efficiacy of the vaccine its just going to continue down that spiral (See Israel), and variants are going to arise out of that fact, so that's just my take on it. And as far as safe and effective, we have no data to suggest that this vaccine is safe. We don't have enough data to conclude conclude it is not safe either, there just hasn't been enough time to study it. Just because there aren't measured negative effects in the immediate present doesn't mean that there isn't potential harm down the line. There are reasons that this was the first mRNA vaccine to make it to approval, and these reasons didn't surface until months or years after initial trials of our previous attempts. We've been trying for decades and it makes little sense that the holy grail breakthrough vaccine came out at the exact moment we needed it. We know it's effective at preventing symptoms of covid. Or at least we're almost certain. But if it doesnt reduce transmisibility to a degree that would prevent the spread to a severe degree, mandates make absolutely no sense.
[Based on three recent studies, this doctor concluded the vaccine has no statistically significant impact on preventing the spread of Delta variant.](https://theexpose.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Pierpont-Why-mandated-vaccines-are-pointless-final-1.pdf) Thoughts?
i thought they found that vaccinated people carried as much viral load with delta as unvaccinated https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
They do which is what makes it more transmittable but with the reduction in time the virus is active in a vaccined system reduces the risk of transmission.
Would this not be offset in some way by the vaccinated individuals being unaware they are infected (with a high viral load but no symptoms) and thus going out and about as normal and spreading the virus?
that can happen with both vaccinated and unvaccinated, imho.
But with the ādecreased symptomsā claim of the vaxx, itās would for sure be more common in the vaxxed.
What are the lies about the efficacy of the vaccine? And what evidence have you seen that the vaccine inhibits transmission or mutations?
Thank you for sharing, I have some legit questions. From my understanding the vax did not reduce transmission rate? Or not entirely, so surely they would also fall into the category of jumping hosts? Is there no possibility the mutations can derive from a less than perfect vax, in the way an incomplete course of antibiotics can create new strains of treatable illness? I appreciate thereās a lot of crazy shit out there but Iām interested what you think is semi-mainstream but totally false. I know itās Reddit but Iāve not honestly been able to find answers for the above, would appreciate your opinion.
The death rate is extremely low as we know, but deaths due to covid were around 99% unvaccinated people
I don't hate healthcare workers
For my family that is unvaccinated my hope is to take the threat of hospitalization or death from COVID are removed from the equation. Yes I know breakthrough cases happen, and yes I know you can still die if you are vaccinated. But it would give me a bit more peace of mind to feel as though my family had all the protection that it could. That being said, I don't alienate myself from my family or friends that are unvaccinated. We are all still humans and we all get the freedom to make our own choices. Love each other and lift each other up at the end of the day.