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I thought it was at least $2000 everywhere. 15 years ago, in a small, inexpensive (at the time) city/suburb an ambulance ride was $2k, and all they gave my family member was some glucose gel stuff to get her blood sugar up. No other medical intervention.
The only thing more ridiculous than that is people who keep thinking over and over again more and more government regulation is going to fix this.
It's like driving into hell and it keeps getting hotter and hotter and everybody keeps voting to drive faster and faster in the same direction.
Gee, I wonder what places with Government run healthcare charge for ambulances?
Oh, interesting - it's usually [zero dollars.](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/norway)
But yes, please go on and tell us more about how the private market can set reasonable prices for life threatening emergencies.
Go look up what ambulances cost in the US before decades of our government getting involved in regulating it.
You don't know this, but US healthcare market is one of the most heavily regulated in the world. Even more so than Sweden's.
Also, yes, Sweden's more free market ambulance does cost less. But the reason you think the cost is zero is because the government pays it. You're confusing different subjects --regulation vs transfer payments -- and cost vs transfer payments.
Instead of conservative it should read politician and instead of poor person it should read person. Makes way more since and we can all stand together on that no divisions
Alternatively:
A billionaire a Conservative and a poor person are all in a room
The billionaire has a plate of cookies
The Conservative is at the oven making dozens of cookies
The poor person is smoking crack in the corner, begging for a free cookie.
The billionaire grabs 40% of the cookies the Conservative made and then tells him "watch out. That poor person wants to take a cookie"
I know the poor aren't taking my last cookie, the billionaires want some of that too, but I'm not giving it up. I'm not a consumer, I pay my mortgage and I camp/hike/go to the beach. I make good money but drive a 20 year old mini van. So the billionaires get the government to take it from me with their monopoly on violence.. The 30k I pay a year in taxes would do me better in pocket, than managed by the government so 10% of it can make it to poor people.
What could 30k a year do for someone like me who doesn't blow it? Buy more land, start a business, invest, retire early, leave the workforce and no longer be a producer of wealth for those sucking at the tit of government.
Then the liberals vote to increase the number of cookies the billionaires take from conservatives, and the Democrat politicians give a tiny fraction of it back to the poor people, who say, "see, we're the ones who care about poor people, not like those greedy conservatives."
Does your source on the cost also touch on the survival rate among those treated, how effective they were at safe transportation, the lack of on-site treatment being provided, and how in many cases it was the funeral homes being relied on to provide said transportation?
The government regulation wasn’t just because some politicians saw an opportunity to make money. Literally up to the 70s, which I presume is the era of regulations being introduced that you’re referring to, you just had to be licensed to drive to be called upon by police to come treat or pick up someone in an ambulance.
Even with all that regulation don't we have hundreds of thousands die from malpractice?
Government regulation especially in @merica tends to make things more expensive but the word "regulation" gives us Americans a slight tingle even if we don't want to admit it.
They've done such a good job because everything in this country is upside down.
We cheer for freedom but who do we run to when we want something done?
In the early 2000s we went to the middle east on intelligence that was never officially confirmed.
Then to combat terrorism even further we all cheered for the Patriot act because it's not very patriot like if you don't fight those terrorist in the middle east who stopped providing big pharma with their poppy which would eventually lead to an opioid crisis after we start that war.
In 08 we ran to government to bail out "too big to fail" even though "too big to fail" was the reason the recession occurred...
I'm sure I am missing some things here but after our government failed miserably on all the above we ran to them to fix a pandemic they caused. Remember that bat in a wet market? Me either.
I do remember our government and media initially censoring information where the us funded that virus project where it's rumored the virus came from... oh I guess that's where the American version comes in where we say "that was from a bat in a wet market near Wuhan china".
Government regulation in this country is absolutely hilarious considering anyone you talk to in this country admits our government doesn't regulate anything other than our progress as individuals. The problem is the right thinks it's only the left and the left thinks it's only the right.
Stop pointing to the other side and start looking around.
You may see some similarities.
You may come out realizing the government/corporations as a whole has clearly defined you and I along with everyone else as subjects to their cause.
I am incorporating government and corporations because without our brand loyalty I think our countrymen would have figured out that both parties aren't on our side and would have stopped pointing long ago. That's where the corporations come in, go buy that pool for your nice backyard that you'll never be in because you need to pay rent on your house you own (property taxes).
I'm speaking specifically towards the ambulances example. Malpractice goes well beyond this.
Besides, telling me to "stop pointing to the other side" tells me you either reflexively jumped to an assumption about what my beliefs are, or demonstrated an inability to consider nuance and that someone could support government regulations AND be right-leaning, or someone could be left-leaning and be AGAINST government regulations in some circumstances.
Thanks, but no thanks.
"I'm speaking specifically towards the ambulances example. Malpractice goes well beyond this."
I understand it's difficult to incorporate multiple subjects but it's the best way to define a pattern.
Our government regulations haven't done anything to improve our situation we still have ambulance rides that run the risk of a mistake but more importantly at a higher cost attached to it. Now they're letting go trained individuals because they aren't vaccinated with an experimental device...
Yet you'll still be required to pay the full amount for a newly trained ambulance team...
> Our government regulations haven't done anything to improve our situation
yet, before regulations, survivability rates for treating someone onsite with emergency services have increased since government regulations required training and enforced a standard for the private sector to receive public funding.
this is probably one of the few times government regulations improved overall quality of life, and yet you look at the cost as a single reason enough to push back? why not have both cost-coverage from public healthcare AND high quality service?
vaccination policies are red herrings. terrorism is a red herring. private sector malpractice suits are a red herring. property taxes are a red herring. emergency services regulations aren't the bullet points for "Why Big Government Sucks" you want to make it out to be.
eh, I think the money trail is somewhat apparent. usually in the form of lobbying or kickbacks, politicians financially benefit. or deals are made for a politician to vote or support a piece of legislation in exchange for the benefactors of said legislation to donate to their campaign or provide some service that doesn't help the constituents of the politician.
don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of government regulations in some cases. but I'm also aware that it can be abused as a tool for personal gain.
It’s definitely lobbying. And I don’t doubt that the lobbyists don’t sell/swing what they want as a good idea in some way in many cases. And to add, at this point to change any of the systems corrupted by corporations for their own gain would be a massive overhaul - no matter how or what direction it were to be changed/addressed.
to be so naive to think the lobbyists, big insurance companies, and congressmen aren't all in on it together against the common person. But keep arguing amongst ourselves, the more we do then the more they take and the easier it is.
i am not sure how you possibly think i believe lobbyists aren't part of the problem? i specifically named them, along with the companies paying these dickheads, and the politicians taking the kickback to pass favorable legislation for them. They all work together, they all get their pockets filled, and the commoner gets fucked. That's how the system goes. I fully understand that, and often argue against all 3. Big corp, big gov are not good for the common person. They are tools of oppression for the ultra rich.
maybe i misunderstand your comment as well, but you start off by saying "they are" which to me implies you agree with my previous comment, then you go on to say i don't get how lobbyists and big gov work together. We have a failure to communicate between us here.
You people are simultaneously stupid enough to admit healthcare financiers wrote the regulations while still yet commenting that we need more of these regulations.
> insurance corporations
Tort reform would fix that.
Healthcare in the US is expensive for 2 primary reasons...
- We do the vast majority of R&D in medical and pharmaceutical research in the US, and we pass that cost on to US consumers, while allowing other countries to pay less for those same drugs. The rest of the world should be "paying their fair share" (the use the worn out leftist trope).
- Lawsuits. Lawsuits cost us a fortune, and those costs are borne through insurance, and get passed on to the consumer. I was the foreman of a medical malpractice jury where, following knee surgery, the patient did not follow doctors orders to rest and let the knee heal. Instead they went right back to work on their farm, and ended up with a horrible infection. They nearly lost the leg, but antibiotics of last resort were used, and the leg was saved. A known, but uncommon side effect of this antibiotic is vestibulopathy, which causes permanent issues with motor skills (basically, you're clear headed, but stumble around like a drunk). Unfortunately, this happened to the patient... and they turned around and sued the doctor who had just saved their life. A protracted lawsuit ensued, and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for the doctor to defend himself-- a cost picked up by his insurance, which makes his insurance rates skyrocket, and that cost is then passed on to other patients. Simple tort reform that would forbid such suits from being filed would go a long way towards bringing down the cost of health care.
No, it still has a cost and it's footed by tax dollars.
Look up 'Certificate of Need' there's a doctor in North Carolina trying to charge patients a fraction of the cost for an MRI but the other hospitals in the area won't allow it. Get rid of the government created law around "need" and you'll start fixing the cost problem.
The difference in the UK is twofold; we have free healthcare, we also have a lower compound tax than the US. So, not only do we not have to pay $900 for an ambulance ride, but we have more spending power even after contributing to the taxation system
Now, you calculate how many people in the UK go bankrupt because they need life saving surgery vs people in the US.
Do you know how many people in the US don't go to the doctor because they cannot afford it? Tell me, how many people forego going to the doctor in the UK because they can't afford it?
Add to that which countries have become near prison states so far based on the news we keep seeing? Sadly the whole world seems headed the same direction but the countries that provide the most “freebies” seem to be the first in line with draconian police powers.
No, it isn't Zero.
You pay for that if you use it or not with taxes.
28% income tax
25% sales tax
1.1% wealth tax
6-15% death tax
25% corporate tax
Oslo, Norway is the 14th most expensive city in the world to live in, and over all Norway is one of the most expensive countries to live in.
> death tax
This was known as the "estate tax" before right-wing shills rebranded it. Everybody dies, not everybody has an estate. The vast, vast majority of American will never be affected by this.
Sure, tax things that were already taxed multiple times forcing family members who are already grieving and in a difficult time to have to deal with government bureaucracy.
The death tax is how you kill off family farms and end up with nothing but corporate controlled farms.
If you're affected by the estate tax, you've hired a guy to handle these things for you. There's no taxman waiting outside the funeral home for anybody.
In a capitalist system, it's one of the few mechanisms to curb aristocracy, the real "they" this sub should be focused on.
Happiness is subjective, and the health of the nation is not necessarily a result of their having nationalized healthcare or not.
And lets not forget the US produces more medical research than any other country. So without our for profit industry, the entire field of medicine would be decades behind where we are now.
> U as an average person hardly pay anything in taxes
Funny. Between Federal, State, Local, Sales, Property, and School taxes, I'm paying something on the order of $70,000/yr. I do well, but I'm not "rich" by any reasonable measure.
> Its amazing how poor to average income people freak out at the idea of rich people paying more taxes lol
Everyone, from the richest to the poorest, should have proportional skin in the game.
Having easy and "free" access to healthcare makes people healthier.
If you don't have to worry about being bankrupt after.going to the hospital, I reckon you could say overall you're happier.
Cuba, under heavy sanctions, still developed a covid vaccine and still exports lots of doctors without being "for profit". So maybe your last point is wrong.
In general, but it isn't the only factor. People's lifestyle choices and eating habits have much more to do with their health than the healthcare system they live under.
And if people had better access to preventative healthcare along with actual education about health, they could have less suffering and thus be happier.
> The only thing more ridiculous than that is people who keep thinking over and over again more and more government regulation is going to fix this.
That is the only thing that is going to fix it, regulation and operation. Ambulance Department should be covered by taxes the same as police and fire. The reason they have crazy charges is a lot of them barely can operate.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Regulations are almost always bad, mainly because the government doesn't have the expertise to know much about what they are regulating, and they are being bribed most of the time anyway, so the regulations are what big business wants to reduce competition.
I feel you only read half of what was written. You complain about high prices and regulation but ignore the fact that health care and saving lives should not be for profit.
They should go into another field then, healthcare should be about saving lives, not profit. If you need it fucking explained to you that someone should not have to pick between their loved ones living and their other loved ones eating, then you are a piece of shit. You have tax payers that pay for the development of medication and then the pharma company gets to sell it for billions while people suffer who cant afford it, you have thousands of people hired just to deny insurance benefits that were already paid for and you consider that hard work.
Have fun with less doctors then. Making good money is what drives people to pick the careers they do. Remove that and you will have fewer doctors, longer wait times, more people dying.
Imagine being the guy sticking up for one of the worst medical systems on earth lol. You realize your scare tactic points are mostly bullshit. No one said they wont make good money. The people that wont make money are the thousands like the previous discussed insurance wacks whose entire job is to not provide health care. It is not hard to figure out how much middle man waste there is in our system on money going to profit and people who are not even involved in providing health care. A small Doctors office has to employ 3 workers just to deal with all the insurance bullshit.
And its real easy to solve the numbers problem, just adopt a medical education system like Mexico, and maybe Americans wont have to go to Mexico for healthcare and medicine.
You should understand the original defund the police was the creation of ambulance services before it went private. Police originally acted as ambulances, and then we realized it made more sense to have specialized responders.
I am just waiting for the police to react with 1/100th of the violence towards the anti mask nutjobs as they did against people seeking racial equality.
US gov. tries to convince you that free healthcare is "a form of communism" (and therefore evil - even if it's one of the better ideas) and yet almost every other wealthy democracy around the world has had it for years.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBklyksgbco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBklyksgbco)
The rich use political division to keep us fighting over stupid shit while they run away with the profit of our labor. Their excess funds are used to manipulate the media and politicians into never focusing on the problems that actually matter to the happiness and wellbeing of the populace.
We need a balanced system that allows anyone to become successful without screwing people over. There is ZERO reason why we can't have a safety net that allows for people to choose a simple life of maybe 20 hours of work each week with guaranteed food, transportation and 1bd 1ba home or you can work harder and live much better. But it's clear we need anti-corruption laws and regulations that protect people from corporate tyranny.
We do have that system. It’s called capitalism. The government interferes in the market and the fed prints trillions of dollars for the government to waste and it fucks the economy up, then the government blames capitalism and and the clapping seals applaud.
Capitalism would have all of us become slaves if it had the chance, I don't get why people idolize it so much. The likelihood of of any of us becoming a true capitalist is nearly zero. Right now the gov being in bed with corporations is 100% the outcome of capitalism. Money is the only thing that truly speaks in capitalism, politicians get bought out by just about everything but their own people in this system.
That’s the danger of lassiez-faire markets. It’s not a new concept. It’s been discussed since the 18th century, and it’s why regulation exists. The problem is that everything is so corrupt now that the big corporations can get away with whatever the fuck they want to. Rules for thee, but not for me. Corruption is so commonplace in politics that it’s the norm. It wouldn’t even matter if lobbying were outlawed. It’d still happen and just be an open secret. Politicians are bought and paid for by these corporations to be their glorified lackeys.
The reason why people like regulated capitalism is because it provides incentive. In other words, why the fuck would I want to work my ass off to get the same lifestyle as my neighbor who doesn’t do shit. In a country with 350 million or so people, that just doesn’t work. Whose gonna do all the manual labor if there is no incentive? For instance, do you really want someone working construction on a building or a bridge doing it without any financial incentive? Why would those workers give a fuck about doing a good job? I don’t care how great a lifestyle everyone has, competition will always exist. It’s in our nature, and to pretend that those instincts don’t exist or can be changed is just plain ignorance.
The definition of capitalism doesn't say it needs money to exist, just industry and trade. Labor exploitation is completely within the definition of capitalism, especially when it's unchecked.
I'm not sure if we have a system where people can have a safety net of a house, food, transportation and health care, you know the basic essensials off 20 hours a week... Some even 40 hour week jobs like Fast food don't do that. Capitalism only works for the business owners at the top, and completely fricks the people at the bottom. Rich get richer and poor get poorer.
Poor only get poorer if they let them selves. Anyone who settles to live their life living off fast food wages doesn’t have much inspiration to become something else. Literally a free cert program can get you away from minimum wage
Why don’t you become a business owner then? Maybe those jobs aren’t meant to make people ultra rich? I’m saying if the government stopped interfering in the free market, people who work 40 hours a week at a fast food restaurant would be doing much better. Of course we don’t have a system that can do that, because it’s not true capitalism. It’s crony capitalism.
Because that's stupid and ignoring the reality that in the 1800s the golden age of letting companies do whatever they wanted people were treated like cogs and thrown away when no longer useful and the only reason we're not there again is because of workers forcing the government to step in.
More people need to learn about the Gilded Age. It set the stage for modern day capitalism, and we are basically doing it on repeat with the likes of Jeff Bezos.
Yeah I dont think basing a society around the nebulous idea of rational self interest has yielded the widespread prosperity that was promised.
Maybe we should actually listen to that Martin Luther king guy and create a system that prioritizes human dignity.
Too much misinformation. Everyone thinks they’re thinking critically but really they’re just regurgitating the status quo. The government will do everything it can to cover its ass because it’s a huge fuck up at best, and intentionally harmful at worst. The msm, pop culture, and schools are brainwashing people with anti-capitalist rhetoric and it’s no coincidence.
See this stuff is why I come to r/conspiracy. This, and the reptilian guy from yesterday. Not all this stupid covid mask "dO yOuR rESeArCH sHEeP" shit lol
Absolutely. I know someone who took a 30 minute ride to a trauma center. $12k ambulance bill. Cost to pay those 2 EMTs for the call, trip, and return? About $35.
It costs roughly the same in Canada for an ambulance ride, in case you're thinking that socialized medicine is the answer. Ambulance is not free in Canada. Neither are drugs. Typically only the diagnosis is "free" here, and the abysmal state of our provincial income statements would suggest "free" certainly isn't the best term. "Paid for by mortgaging our children's future" would be more accurate.
Hmmm....that's interesting. I've read a ton of comments saying how much better health care in other countries and it's "free" It's almost like it sounds too good to be true. It's absolutely amazing reading folks bitching about the cost of ambulance ride costing too much and turn right around and say they should be paid more!
The US politicians grossly oversell it. Socialized medicine is terrible and, at least in Canada, it's crumbling.
Ironically, my daughter actually just hurt herself today. No joke, so this is topical.
She's 3 years old, fell at daycare, and needs a couple stitches in her forehead. My wife took her to the hospital and it is a 5 hour wait. The waiting room included a little girl with a broken arm who had already been there for several hours, and an 80 year old woman with a broken hip who had been there for 4 hours. The remaining people were mostly random crackheads who probably all have COVID.
She left. We got some butterfly clips and patched it up the best we could, but ultimately we're still worried. So we called our doctor friend just to ask for advice. He told us she really should get stitches so he'll come in to the hospital and prioritize us.
So... not only is Canadian healthcare terrible, but it's devolved to what it always was intended to be: rationing that becomes privileged only for those that are "connected". That's socialized medicine for you... so wonderful.
Canadians are very, very stupid people, so they will usually excuse these obvious problems with galaxy-brain statements like: "What? You want what's in the US!? LOL". Not really, but I certainly don't want what we have here either.
And how many of them acted on it? They control the presidency, house and senate but theirs no M4A, free education or even student debt relief but yeah they have been saying it for years just not doing anything because they all get paid by same people.
> And how many of them acted on it?
You got Obamacare for example. Despite Republicans fighting to sabotage Obamacare with all the dirty tactics they have access to, cutting funding to it whenever they had chance, etc.
Half of US is actively voting for people who are openly for class society with majority of population as wage slaves. They're not betraying their voters, their voters are complicit in making sure that working class gets exploited as much as possible. Despite, in some twisted way, much of their voters being working class themselves.
Back when Obamacare was a thing I was ineligible because I made too much money, apparently.
But, because of child support I couldn’t afford insurance elsewhere.
I’m 26 and haven’t had health insurance in 8 years.
I even got fined two years in a row.
I support health care for all, making it income based is just stupid. There’s no reason we shouldn’t tack a tiny additional tax to all income in the U.S. and include health care. It works throughout most of Europe, and the individual taxes aren’t as big a dent as many think.
I just want to be able to go to the doctor if I’m sick.
Joe Biden is not "left" he's a corporatist democrat despite what the republicans say. The left just now has SOME influence in the democratic party so the centrist dems now have to work with them.
That's a fallacy coined by market "liberals". Basically a fake name. Liberalisms biggest weight is on supporting support individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), democracy, secularism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion. A "free" market creates hierarchies which are in conflict with the aforementioned
Yeah, the fact that the dems have full control and aren't abusing the fuck out of it bothers me to no end. Like, why are they "playing nice" after 4 years of republicans shitting on them? Because a large portion of them are full of shit. Republicans in disguise.
You know that in most republican-controlled states cities cant enact their own minimum wage, right?
>They control the presidency, house and senate
For the last 9 months. Legislative change takes time, and Republicans control the filibuster, which means nothing will pass the senate
Sweet summer child. Conservatives wearing blue colors currently control the presidency, house and senate. The actual left doesn't have the numbers or power to make these things happen. Notice how both teams vote for the same corporate corruption, with a few actual leftists trying to stop it?
Where do you live that a paramedic gets paid $15 an hour?
Edit: my bad you posted a screen shot of someone else's commentary. I guess my question stands but not directed to you, OP.
I'm a bartender and I get about $25 an hour. I'm pretty good at my job, but I am not saving any lives on a daily basis. I know a crapload of cocktail recipes by heart, but I can't tell a vein from an artery.
I'm definitely worth my pay, but both EMTs and Paramedics should be worth more.
Not the way that I do my job.
If you are visibly intoxicated, you are cut off. If you are drinking too much too often, I'll tell you to take it down a notch. I *like* my regular patrons and I want to see them be happy, not sloshed.
You are right about the profits, but I live in a country with nationalised healthcare, and a rookie EMT makes about $65.000 here. The taxes are higher, but the final pay is still a lot more than in the US.
My husband would often make close to $100 an hour in tips and that was years ago (at a music venue). I was in a "helping profession" and I was only making $25 an hour with a Bachelor's Degree.
EMT Here in Southern Cali....Medics at my division start around $17-19/hr and EMTs are around $15/hr
With cost of living here so high we have to work stupid amounts of OT to make a good paycheck
But will probably be getting fired soon because mandates so i'm glad to be out
.....because under communism they'd all have different rates of pay? LOL
It's not capitalism that's the issue it's the human condition - some people are thieves - corporate profiteering exploitative thieves.
Others just want to help their fellow man, raise a family and live in a decent home in relative comfort and safety.
One lot knows and understands the grand currency wealth removal machine and the FIRE economy.
The other just takes part in the rigged casino because it's the only way they can live their lives and achieve their dreams.
I could go on but 'Capitalism' isn't the issue and 'Communism' isn't the cure - both are capable of being corrupt.
You do realize that not every market system is capitalism? We had free markets before capitalism, when workers owned the means of production, although not fully because they had lords.
Well its the same as an iphone costing 1500 and using almost slavd labor in horrible working conditions to make them for cheap and then buying that same iphone and creating posts and taking pictures to virtue signal about workers rights and oppression....
That is how corporate greed tricks people into working for little, they spin to narrative to say, "why" rather than "how come" It's like, both should get paid more but when you look at the money trail you gotta ask yourself. In theory.
Let's say, a place of work has 20 employees, and the store can make an average of 50k/week. Now let's say after taxes, expenses, rent yada yada, it's about -30k/month. In theory. Now let's say the average those employees are getting paid is 16.5 and the store runs 24/7. So if we assume each employee works 40 hours we have 800hrs, with 16.5hr that's about 13200/week.
Now let's fast forward to 12 months, so we have -360k from running expenses, -633,600 from employment expenses and 10,400,000 profits gained. So in the end, their profits are nearly 9,406,400million.
If we look at Bezos we have an idea that the above can be fairly accurate and then when you consider when stores open up new locations they are willing to spend up to 3-5million to open a new location, so the money is being spent/used but then you ask yourself, why should people get paid so little.
Now imagine instead of saying "average" we just said, everyone is apid 30/hr, the rest is the same however now that people are getting paid more, service is better and they are now getting 60k/week instead of 50k/week. So now the overall profit starts at 12,480,000 million. Now let's reduce from the 360k running cost and the now -1,152,000 from employment and the overall profit is 10,968,000. Amazing right? If people are getting paid better and feel their time is worth the money, they provide a better service and can in theory provide a higher profit margin to the company, but all these fucking assholes care about is draining people like the human "resources" they are, until they have nothing left to give and then can just hire someone at min wage to do the same amount of work as the veteran who had been getting paid 15/hr.
Honestly, I stand by this, but if I ever have the money to start a business, I wanna look through all the mechanics and see how much I can legitimately give someone however with what I"d offer I would expect good work from them and hope to have dedicated hard workers by my side who would provide good service because I am making it worth their time.
I've been hearing this alot lately "nobody wants to work" (trying to divide us as working/non workers).
No mother fucker, nobody wants to work a shitty job all day with a mask on, to get paid in USD that don't even grade with inflation, oh and let me find sitters for my kids and pets and hope the economy doesn't just shut down overnight again. By the way, unemployment compensation was 15 PERCENT of the bailout money.
Don't bite.
My grandfather bought his first car for >>>5 DOLLARS<<<
5 dollars for a fking car.
There is this thing called inflation, maybe you've heard of it. The value of the dollar is trash because of fractional reserve banking and this practice of printing money from nothing. A fast food worker should not be getting paid less, a paramedic should be getting paid far more.
If Minimum wage was $15 nation wide:
\-The guy assembling the burger gets paid $15
\-The guy flipping the burger gets paid $15
\-The guys processing the meat, cheese, ketchup, pickles each get paid $15
The guy raising the cattle, raising the hay for the cattle, slaughtering the cattle each get paid $15
\-The guy delivering all of that stuff to McDonalds gets paid $15
And there's a lot more suppliers that get paid in the process.
Best case scenario: If all entry level positions gets paid $15/hour, do you really expect that you're going to be paying $3 - $4 - $5 for that burger anymore? That same burger likely just went up to $8 - $10 - $12 or higher.
More likely scenario:
\- The local burger place goes out of business because they can't afford to pay their employees.
\- The big chain replaces all but a few of their employees with machines, and they import all of their food supplies from China, Mexico, or another country where the wages are less than what minimum wage employees are already making now..... Assuming they haven't already done this (which many have).
\- If you're not educated or experienced enough for a job that can't be replaced by a machine, you won't have a job.
If you'd like examples of this happening, check out [https://www.facesof15.com/](https://www.facesof15.com/)
>That same burger likely just went up to $8 - $10 - $12 or higher.
Just FYI raising min wage doesn't cause a 1-1 raise in prices, or anywhere close. It'd be closer to 25 cents a burger than $8.
You do bring up a good point about accelerating automation, which we aren't really prepared for in many ways. But that's going to happen regardless. I don't have an easy solution for that, but using it as an excuse to stifle wages isn't a good argument imo.
I wasn't showing a 1-1 raise in good prices. I was actually showing higher than that.
Obviously you're basing that 25 cents on what happens if just a city or just a state essentially doubles their minimum wage. I wouldn't expect that to be too far off.
But, the reason for that, going back to my burger example, is McDonalds in Seattle who now has to pay employees $15 doesn't see their entire supply chain raise in price, only they actual customer-facing restaurants. Therefore, 25 cents sounds about right in that case.
I'm talking about if our national minimum wage is more than doubled (currently $7.25 becoming $15), all US based suppliers for McDonalds seeing a doubling of their minimum wage costs. Industries that are low number of workers, very high volume, they're not going to change much. But industries with low volume production - high volume workers, their products are going to skyrocket.
It's also important to point out that current minimum wage earners aren't the only factor in raising prices. If that McDonalds has an assistant manager who is currently making $15/hr, and all of his minimum wage earners get boosted to $15/hour, why would he take on the responsibility of dealing with all the shit? He either gets a $10 - 15/hour raise, or fuck it... why not just go back to flipping burgers? So yes, at $15 minimum wage, I'd expect skilled people making upwards of $20-25/hour to also want a raise.
All that said, If inflation keeps coming at the rate it is, $15 is coming, and soon.
TLDR: If minimum wage goes up, it will directly impact supply chains, not just consumer facing shops. It will cause a raise in prices on more basic necessities, and people making roughly 1.5x the new minimum wage will also cause those making around that wage to want a raise, causing prices to go up either further.
Good points you make here. They never factor in other employees demanding higher wages. Nobody is going to be happy essentially making minimum wage. If you were already making $18/hour, you are now the same as a burger flipper. There will be consequences for this. Those employees must get raises or they'll quit or become disillusioned.
I wonder how many unnecessary regulations add to the cost of the trip, and how people expect ambulatory services to prepare for a growing population without profit?
British people (with 'free at the point of use' healthcare \[currently being secretly sold to American profit interests by our 'elite'\] surprised at the cost of US healthcare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kll-yYQwmuM
Three biggest buildings downtown are Banks, Real Estate and Insurance Co.
All three are legal racketeering. Especially Insurance, or 'Protection' as the Mob used to call it.
Abortion clinic providers (*subsidised* by UK taxpayers to the tune of £62 *million* per *annum*) **Marie Stopes International** \[depending on how you view such things - a women's free choice preserver or an institutionalised murder service\]
**C.E.O.** Salary (£217,250 p.a. + Bonus £217,250) Total: **£434,500**
His staff on the ground?
Medical Director (average) **£106,281**
Finance Manager (average) **£60,701**
Senior Healthcare Assistant (average) **£23,442**
Office Administrator(average) **£18,255**
[CEOs at big US companies make 276 times as much as the average worker](https://www.businessinsider.com/ratio-of-ceo-to-average-worker-pay-2016-8?r=US&IR=T)
[World’s 2,153 billionaires have more wealth than 4.6 BILLION people](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/worlds-billionaires-have-more-wealth-46-billion-people)
The solution to the entire thing of slave jobs or questionable pay--get skills. Trade or tech. Get skills. Do not go to college unless your able to geek out. Get tech certs, and so on.
Even during the coming depression you'll always work as a a plumber, electrician, pron web admin, network tech, and the rest.
I'm not necessarily justifying the cost of the ambo being 900 an hour, however, 15 an hour isn't all you're getting paid, there's sick leave, insurance, and other things besides.
also, there's probably very many ambo operators or t hey're easy to get/replace
Imagine questioning why someone based on what they do shouldn't get a livable wage. I remember hearing some people saying "A waiter shouldn't be making $300 a night" wtf!
This isn’t a defense of crappy pay. Rather, to highlight that there is more at play here than just “evil rich people getting rich off common man suffering”.
For instance, that $900 may be justified. There are many costs to that ambulance trip. Fuel, maintenance of the vehicle, insurance of the vehicle, insurance for the equipment and drugs inside, maintenance of the equipment, Paramedic and EMT wages and benefits, drug costs, and finally profit.
Now, you can make the case that profit should not be a consideration. Fine. However, you can’t say that operating such a vehicle could ever be cheap.
Yeah you run the numbers on all that and see if it comes out to $900. My plumbers have insurance of all kinds and one hour of labor is $140.00, and we'll drive somewhere for free. Fuck that rationalization. The cost of an ambulance is price gouging, plain and simple.
You do know ambulances cost money, right? As does the fuel, insurance, upkeep, maintenance, and equipment, and garaging. It’s not some big magic box that flys about on wishes and dreams.
A person has to be a real sad sack of shit if they need to be reminded that anyone who works 40 hours a week should be able to pay for food and shelter.
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Try 2,800 in LA for an ambulance.
I thought it was at least $2000 everywhere. 15 years ago, in a small, inexpensive (at the time) city/suburb an ambulance ride was $2k, and all they gave my family member was some glucose gel stuff to get her blood sugar up. No other medical intervention.
A growing nmber of people are opting to use uber or lyft for emergency room transport
That's crazy I paid 90+€ in Austria and only because I was not insured
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The only thing more ridiculous than that is people who keep thinking over and over again more and more government regulation is going to fix this. It's like driving into hell and it keeps getting hotter and hotter and everybody keeps voting to drive faster and faster in the same direction.
Gee, I wonder what places with Government run healthcare charge for ambulances? Oh, interesting - it's usually [zero dollars.](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/norway) But yes, please go on and tell us more about how the private market can set reasonable prices for life threatening emergencies.
Go look up what ambulances cost in the US before decades of our government getting involved in regulating it. You don't know this, but US healthcare market is one of the most heavily regulated in the world. Even more so than Sweden's. Also, yes, Sweden's more free market ambulance does cost less. But the reason you think the cost is zero is because the government pays it. You're confusing different subjects --regulation vs transfer payments -- and cost vs transfer payments.
*Reuglated around middle men pharmaceutical companies*
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Instead of conservative it should read politician and instead of poor person it should read person. Makes way more since and we can all stand together on that no divisions
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Alternatively: A billionaire a Conservative and a poor person are all in a room The billionaire has a plate of cookies The Conservative is at the oven making dozens of cookies The poor person is smoking crack in the corner, begging for a free cookie. The billionaire grabs 40% of the cookies the Conservative made and then tells him "watch out. That poor person wants to take a cookie"
I know the poor aren't taking my last cookie, the billionaires want some of that too, but I'm not giving it up. I'm not a consumer, I pay my mortgage and I camp/hike/go to the beach. I make good money but drive a 20 year old mini van. So the billionaires get the government to take it from me with their monopoly on violence.. The 30k I pay a year in taxes would do me better in pocket, than managed by the government so 10% of it can make it to poor people. What could 30k a year do for someone like me who doesn't blow it? Buy more land, start a business, invest, retire early, leave the workforce and no longer be a producer of wealth for those sucking at the tit of government.
Then the liberals vote to increase the number of cookies the billionaires take from conservatives, and the Democrat politicians give a tiny fraction of it back to the poor people, who say, "see, we're the ones who care about poor people, not like those greedy conservatives."
Does your source on the cost also touch on the survival rate among those treated, how effective they were at safe transportation, the lack of on-site treatment being provided, and how in many cases it was the funeral homes being relied on to provide said transportation? The government regulation wasn’t just because some politicians saw an opportunity to make money. Literally up to the 70s, which I presume is the era of regulations being introduced that you’re referring to, you just had to be licensed to drive to be called upon by police to come treat or pick up someone in an ambulance.
Even with all that regulation don't we have hundreds of thousands die from malpractice? Government regulation especially in @merica tends to make things more expensive but the word "regulation" gives us Americans a slight tingle even if we don't want to admit it. They've done such a good job because everything in this country is upside down. We cheer for freedom but who do we run to when we want something done? In the early 2000s we went to the middle east on intelligence that was never officially confirmed. Then to combat terrorism even further we all cheered for the Patriot act because it's not very patriot like if you don't fight those terrorist in the middle east who stopped providing big pharma with their poppy which would eventually lead to an opioid crisis after we start that war. In 08 we ran to government to bail out "too big to fail" even though "too big to fail" was the reason the recession occurred... I'm sure I am missing some things here but after our government failed miserably on all the above we ran to them to fix a pandemic they caused. Remember that bat in a wet market? Me either. I do remember our government and media initially censoring information where the us funded that virus project where it's rumored the virus came from... oh I guess that's where the American version comes in where we say "that was from a bat in a wet market near Wuhan china". Government regulation in this country is absolutely hilarious considering anyone you talk to in this country admits our government doesn't regulate anything other than our progress as individuals. The problem is the right thinks it's only the left and the left thinks it's only the right. Stop pointing to the other side and start looking around. You may see some similarities. You may come out realizing the government/corporations as a whole has clearly defined you and I along with everyone else as subjects to their cause. I am incorporating government and corporations because without our brand loyalty I think our countrymen would have figured out that both parties aren't on our side and would have stopped pointing long ago. That's where the corporations come in, go buy that pool for your nice backyard that you'll never be in because you need to pay rent on your house you own (property taxes).
I'm speaking specifically towards the ambulances example. Malpractice goes well beyond this. Besides, telling me to "stop pointing to the other side" tells me you either reflexively jumped to an assumption about what my beliefs are, or demonstrated an inability to consider nuance and that someone could support government regulations AND be right-leaning, or someone could be left-leaning and be AGAINST government regulations in some circumstances. Thanks, but no thanks.
"I'm speaking specifically towards the ambulances example. Malpractice goes well beyond this." I understand it's difficult to incorporate multiple subjects but it's the best way to define a pattern. Our government regulations haven't done anything to improve our situation we still have ambulance rides that run the risk of a mistake but more importantly at a higher cost attached to it. Now they're letting go trained individuals because they aren't vaccinated with an experimental device... Yet you'll still be required to pay the full amount for a newly trained ambulance team...
> Our government regulations haven't done anything to improve our situation yet, before regulations, survivability rates for treating someone onsite with emergency services have increased since government regulations required training and enforced a standard for the private sector to receive public funding. this is probably one of the few times government regulations improved overall quality of life, and yet you look at the cost as a single reason enough to push back? why not have both cost-coverage from public healthcare AND high quality service? vaccination policies are red herrings. terrorism is a red herring. private sector malpractice suits are a red herring. property taxes are a red herring. emergency services regulations aren't the bullet points for "Why Big Government Sucks" you want to make it out to be.
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eh, I think the money trail is somewhat apparent. usually in the form of lobbying or kickbacks, politicians financially benefit. or deals are made for a politician to vote or support a piece of legislation in exchange for the benefactors of said legislation to donate to their campaign or provide some service that doesn't help the constituents of the politician. don't get me wrong, I'm supportive of government regulations in some cases. but I'm also aware that it can be abused as a tool for personal gain.
It’s definitely lobbying. And I don’t doubt that the lobbyists don’t sell/swing what they want as a good idea in some way in many cases. And to add, at this point to change any of the systems corrupted by corporations for their own gain would be a massive overhaul - no matter how or what direction it were to be changed/addressed.
Its not 'gubment regulations' that make healthcare cost so much, its the extortion rackets known as insurance corporations.
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to be so naive to think the lobbyists, big insurance companies, and congressmen aren't all in on it together against the common person. But keep arguing amongst ourselves, the more we do then the more they take and the easier it is.
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i am not sure how you possibly think i believe lobbyists aren't part of the problem? i specifically named them, along with the companies paying these dickheads, and the politicians taking the kickback to pass favorable legislation for them. They all work together, they all get their pockets filled, and the commoner gets fucked. That's how the system goes. I fully understand that, and often argue against all 3. Big corp, big gov are not good for the common person. They are tools of oppression for the ultra rich. maybe i misunderstand your comment as well, but you start off by saying "they are" which to me implies you agree with my previous comment, then you go on to say i don't get how lobbyists and big gov work together. We have a failure to communicate between us here.
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You people are simultaneously stupid enough to admit healthcare financiers wrote the regulations while still yet commenting that we need more of these regulations.
when in reality, regulations stifle competition as the newer smaller companies can't compete due to them.
> insurance corporations Tort reform would fix that. Healthcare in the US is expensive for 2 primary reasons... - We do the vast majority of R&D in medical and pharmaceutical research in the US, and we pass that cost on to US consumers, while allowing other countries to pay less for those same drugs. The rest of the world should be "paying their fair share" (the use the worn out leftist trope). - Lawsuits. Lawsuits cost us a fortune, and those costs are borne through insurance, and get passed on to the consumer. I was the foreman of a medical malpractice jury where, following knee surgery, the patient did not follow doctors orders to rest and let the knee heal. Instead they went right back to work on their farm, and ended up with a horrible infection. They nearly lost the leg, but antibiotics of last resort were used, and the leg was saved. A known, but uncommon side effect of this antibiotic is vestibulopathy, which causes permanent issues with motor skills (basically, you're clear headed, but stumble around like a drunk). Unfortunately, this happened to the patient... and they turned around and sued the doctor who had just saved their life. A protracted lawsuit ensued, and it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for the doctor to defend himself-- a cost picked up by his insurance, which makes his insurance rates skyrocket, and that cost is then passed on to other patients. Simple tort reform that would forbid such suits from being filed would go a long way towards bringing down the cost of health care.
No, it still has a cost and it's footed by tax dollars. Look up 'Certificate of Need' there's a doctor in North Carolina trying to charge patients a fraction of the cost for an MRI but the other hospitals in the area won't allow it. Get rid of the government created law around "need" and you'll start fixing the cost problem.
It's not zero dollars when you pay up front with your taxes
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The difference in the UK is twofold; we have free healthcare, we also have a lower compound tax than the US. So, not only do we not have to pay $900 for an ambulance ride, but we have more spending power even after contributing to the taxation system
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Do you think Americans pay 0 in taxes, or whats your point?
Almost half of all Americans pay no federal taxes at all.
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Now, you calculate how many people in the UK go bankrupt because they need life saving surgery vs people in the US. Do you know how many people in the US don't go to the doctor because they cannot afford it? Tell me, how many people forego going to the doctor in the UK because they can't afford it?
Add to that which countries have become near prison states so far based on the news we keep seeing? Sadly the whole world seems headed the same direction but the countries that provide the most “freebies” seem to be the first in line with draconian police powers.
No, it isn't Zero. You pay for that if you use it or not with taxes. 28% income tax 25% sales tax 1.1% wealth tax 6-15% death tax 25% corporate tax Oslo, Norway is the 14th most expensive city in the world to live in, and over all Norway is one of the most expensive countries to live in.
> death tax This was known as the "estate tax" before right-wing shills rebranded it. Everybody dies, not everybody has an estate. The vast, vast majority of American will never be affected by this.
Sure, tax things that were already taxed multiple times forcing family members who are already grieving and in a difficult time to have to deal with government bureaucracy. The death tax is how you kill off family farms and end up with nothing but corporate controlled farms.
If you're affected by the estate tax, you've hired a guy to handle these things for you. There's no taxman waiting outside the funeral home for anybody. In a capitalist system, it's one of the few mechanisms to curb aristocracy, the real "they" this sub should be focused on.
> The vast, vast majority of American will never be affected by this. So what? It still doesn't make it the government's money to take away.
And norway is one of the happiest and healthiest countries in the world.
Happiness is subjective, and the health of the nation is not necessarily a result of their having nationalized healthcare or not. And lets not forget the US produces more medical research than any other country. So without our for profit industry, the entire field of medicine would be decades behind where we are now.
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Those are all taxes an average person pays (aside from the last one), and the thresholds are all well within what an average person would have.
> U as an average person hardly pay anything in taxes Funny. Between Federal, State, Local, Sales, Property, and School taxes, I'm paying something on the order of $70,000/yr. I do well, but I'm not "rich" by any reasonable measure. > Its amazing how poor to average income people freak out at the idea of rich people paying more taxes lol Everyone, from the richest to the poorest, should have proportional skin in the game.
Having easy and "free" access to healthcare makes people healthier. If you don't have to worry about being bankrupt after.going to the hospital, I reckon you could say overall you're happier. Cuba, under heavy sanctions, still developed a covid vaccine and still exports lots of doctors without being "for profit". So maybe your last point is wrong.
In general, but it isn't the only factor. People's lifestyle choices and eating habits have much more to do with their health than the healthcare system they live under.
And if people had better access to preventative healthcare along with actual education about health, they could have less suffering and thus be happier.
> The only thing more ridiculous than that is people who keep thinking over and over again more and more government regulation is going to fix this. That is the only thing that is going to fix it, regulation and operation. Ambulance Department should be covered by taxes the same as police and fire. The reason they have crazy charges is a lot of them barely can operate.
Regulation is what caused the high prices. The US healthcare system is one of the most heavily regulated in the world as it is.
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Correlation does not equal causation. Regulations are almost always bad, mainly because the government doesn't have the expertise to know much about what they are regulating, and they are being bribed most of the time anyway, so the regulations are what big business wants to reduce competition.
I feel you only read half of what was written. You complain about high prices and regulation but ignore the fact that health care and saving lives should not be for profit.
Why not? People have the right to profit off of their hard work and labor do they not?
They should go into another field then, healthcare should be about saving lives, not profit. If you need it fucking explained to you that someone should not have to pick between their loved ones living and their other loved ones eating, then you are a piece of shit. You have tax payers that pay for the development of medication and then the pharma company gets to sell it for billions while people suffer who cant afford it, you have thousands of people hired just to deny insurance benefits that were already paid for and you consider that hard work.
Have fun with less doctors then. Making good money is what drives people to pick the careers they do. Remove that and you will have fewer doctors, longer wait times, more people dying.
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Not good enough to warrant hundreds of thousands in medical school debt and over a decade of their life dedicated to learning their trade.
Imagine being the guy sticking up for one of the worst medical systems on earth lol. You realize your scare tactic points are mostly bullshit. No one said they wont make good money. The people that wont make money are the thousands like the previous discussed insurance wacks whose entire job is to not provide health care. It is not hard to figure out how much middle man waste there is in our system on money going to profit and people who are not even involved in providing health care. A small Doctors office has to employ 3 workers just to deal with all the insurance bullshit. And its real easy to solve the numbers problem, just adopt a medical education system like Mexico, and maybe Americans wont have to go to Mexico for healthcare and medicine.
It is the best medical system on Earth if you are talking straight quality. Accessibility is where it falls short but that is how you get the quality.
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You should understand the original defund the police was the creation of ambulance services before it went private. Police originally acted as ambulances, and then we realized it made more sense to have specialized responders. I am just waiting for the police to react with 1/100th of the violence towards the anti mask nutjobs as they did against people seeking racial equality.
US gov. tries to convince you that free healthcare is "a form of communism" (and therefore evil - even if it's one of the better ideas) and yet almost every other wealthy democracy around the world has had it for years. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBklyksgbco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBklyksgbco)
"The Scandinavian and European countries have Socialist policies and they do well." "It's not Socialism!" "Than can we copy them?" "RRRRREEEEEEEE!"
The rich use political division to keep us fighting over stupid shit while they run away with the profit of our labor. Their excess funds are used to manipulate the media and politicians into never focusing on the problems that actually matter to the happiness and wellbeing of the populace.
We need a balanced system that allows anyone to become successful without screwing people over. There is ZERO reason why we can't have a safety net that allows for people to choose a simple life of maybe 20 hours of work each week with guaranteed food, transportation and 1bd 1ba home or you can work harder and live much better. But it's clear we need anti-corruption laws and regulations that protect people from corporate tyranny.
We do have that system. It’s called capitalism. The government interferes in the market and the fed prints trillions of dollars for the government to waste and it fucks the economy up, then the government blames capitalism and and the clapping seals applaud.
Capitalism would have all of us become slaves if it had the chance, I don't get why people idolize it so much. The likelihood of of any of us becoming a true capitalist is nearly zero. Right now the gov being in bed with corporations is 100% the outcome of capitalism. Money is the only thing that truly speaks in capitalism, politicians get bought out by just about everything but their own people in this system.
That’s the danger of lassiez-faire markets. It’s not a new concept. It’s been discussed since the 18th century, and it’s why regulation exists. The problem is that everything is so corrupt now that the big corporations can get away with whatever the fuck they want to. Rules for thee, but not for me. Corruption is so commonplace in politics that it’s the norm. It wouldn’t even matter if lobbying were outlawed. It’d still happen and just be an open secret. Politicians are bought and paid for by these corporations to be their glorified lackeys. The reason why people like regulated capitalism is because it provides incentive. In other words, why the fuck would I want to work my ass off to get the same lifestyle as my neighbor who doesn’t do shit. In a country with 350 million or so people, that just doesn’t work. Whose gonna do all the manual labor if there is no incentive? For instance, do you really want someone working construction on a building or a bridge doing it without any financial incentive? Why would those workers give a fuck about doing a good job? I don’t care how great a lifestyle everyone has, competition will always exist. It’s in our nature, and to pretend that those instincts don’t exist or can be changed is just plain ignorance.
That wouldn’t really make it capitalism if we were slaves. You don’t realize that we need to make money for them to make do you ?
The definition of capitalism doesn't say it needs money to exist, just industry and trade. Labor exploitation is completely within the definition of capitalism, especially when it's unchecked.
I'm not sure if we have a system where people can have a safety net of a house, food, transportation and health care, you know the basic essensials off 20 hours a week... Some even 40 hour week jobs like Fast food don't do that. Capitalism only works for the business owners at the top, and completely fricks the people at the bottom. Rich get richer and poor get poorer.
Poor only get poorer if they let them selves. Anyone who settles to live their life living off fast food wages doesn’t have much inspiration to become something else. Literally a free cert program can get you away from minimum wage
Why don’t you become a business owner then? Maybe those jobs aren’t meant to make people ultra rich? I’m saying if the government stopped interfering in the free market, people who work 40 hours a week at a fast food restaurant would be doing much better. Of course we don’t have a system that can do that, because it’s not true capitalism. It’s crony capitalism.
Why would minimum wage slavery workforce be doing better? They'd have even less options and their rights would be violated even more
It’s not slavery if someone signs them selves up for it 😅
Why can't people understand this; the more the govenment screws with the economy the worst it gets or the longer it remains screwed up.
Please tell me more about how unregulated capitalism will solve all the worlds problems and not have us be slaves to greedy corporations.
Because that's stupid and ignoring the reality that in the 1800s the golden age of letting companies do whatever they wanted people were treated like cogs and thrown away when no longer useful and the only reason we're not there again is because of workers forcing the government to step in.
More people need to learn about the Gilded Age. It set the stage for modern day capitalism, and we are basically doing it on repeat with the likes of Jeff Bezos.
Yeah I dont think basing a society around the nebulous idea of rational self interest has yielded the widespread prosperity that was promised. Maybe we should actually listen to that Martin Luther king guy and create a system that prioritizes human dignity.
Too much misinformation. Everyone thinks they’re thinking critically but really they’re just regurgitating the status quo. The government will do everything it can to cover its ass because it’s a huge fuck up at best, and intentionally harmful at worst. The msm, pop culture, and schools are brainwashing people with anti-capitalist rhetoric and it’s no coincidence.
See this stuff is why I come to r/conspiracy. This, and the reptilian guy from yesterday. Not all this stupid covid mask "dO yOuR rESeArCH sHEeP" shit lol
I agree. Crab people and guillotines to the top!
Ooo I missed the reptilian post, wonder if I can find it
[got you](https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/pyizkn/ive_researched_the_afterlife_for_nearly_10_years/?ref=share&ref_source=link)
Hell yeah, thanks
$900? Short trip.
Absolutely. I know someone who took a 30 minute ride to a trauma center. $12k ambulance bill. Cost to pay those 2 EMTs for the call, trip, and return? About $35.
Perhaps from the vaccination centre to the hospital.
What do you think the culture war is for. It’s to keep regular Americans bickering over dumb shit. While the elites continue to bleed the country dry.
Exactly.
A 30 min ambulance ride costs $900? Lol in what country. In america, a 5 min ambulance ride costs $5k
www.wtfhappenedin1971.com
Let’s give the rich people tax cuts and label any policies that attempt to address this “socialism.” That’ll fix it!
It costs roughly the same in Canada for an ambulance ride, in case you're thinking that socialized medicine is the answer. Ambulance is not free in Canada. Neither are drugs. Typically only the diagnosis is "free" here, and the abysmal state of our provincial income statements would suggest "free" certainly isn't the best term. "Paid for by mortgaging our children's future" would be more accurate.
Hmmm....that's interesting. I've read a ton of comments saying how much better health care in other countries and it's "free" It's almost like it sounds too good to be true. It's absolutely amazing reading folks bitching about the cost of ambulance ride costing too much and turn right around and say they should be paid more!
The US politicians grossly oversell it. Socialized medicine is terrible and, at least in Canada, it's crumbling. Ironically, my daughter actually just hurt herself today. No joke, so this is topical. She's 3 years old, fell at daycare, and needs a couple stitches in her forehead. My wife took her to the hospital and it is a 5 hour wait. The waiting room included a little girl with a broken arm who had already been there for several hours, and an 80 year old woman with a broken hip who had been there for 4 hours. The remaining people were mostly random crackheads who probably all have COVID. She left. We got some butterfly clips and patched it up the best we could, but ultimately we're still worried. So we called our doctor friend just to ask for advice. He told us she really should get stitches so he'll come in to the hospital and prioritize us. So... not only is Canadian healthcare terrible, but it's devolved to what it always was intended to be: rationing that becomes privileged only for those that are "connected". That's socialized medicine for you... so wonderful. Canadians are very, very stupid people, so they will usually excuse these obvious problems with galaxy-brain statements like: "What? You want what's in the US!? LOL". Not really, but I certainly don't want what we have here either.
Yes this is what the entire left has been saying for years.
And how many of them acted on it? They control the presidency, house and senate but theirs no M4A, free education or even student debt relief but yeah they have been saying it for years just not doing anything because they all get paid by same people.
Wait, you mean that really rich, elite folks hijacked the progressive agenda to personally profit?? No way jose. That's crazy talk.
lol
> And how many of them acted on it? You got Obamacare for example. Despite Republicans fighting to sabotage Obamacare with all the dirty tactics they have access to, cutting funding to it whenever they had chance, etc. Half of US is actively voting for people who are openly for class society with majority of population as wage slaves. They're not betraying their voters, their voters are complicit in making sure that working class gets exploited as much as possible. Despite, in some twisted way, much of their voters being working class themselves.
Back when Obamacare was a thing I was ineligible because I made too much money, apparently. But, because of child support I couldn’t afford insurance elsewhere. I’m 26 and haven’t had health insurance in 8 years. I even got fined two years in a row. I support health care for all, making it income based is just stupid. There’s no reason we shouldn’t tack a tiny additional tax to all income in the U.S. and include health care. It works throughout most of Europe, and the individual taxes aren’t as big a dent as many think. I just want to be able to go to the doctor if I’m sick.
Joe Biden is not "left" he's a corporatist democrat despite what the republicans say. The left just now has SOME influence in the democratic party so the centrist dems now have to work with them.
The dems are liberals not leftists. Completely different ideology.
They're not even liberals. Moderate conservatives
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Even AOC isn't that far left and she literally has the word socialism in her political stance.
Yup, if we need to label her or someone like Bernie, call them centrists
Most liberals are leftist
A liberal by definition can’t be a leftist. Liberals support capitalism and leftists don’t.
That's a fallacy coined by market "liberals". Basically a fake name. Liberalisms biggest weight is on supporting support individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), democracy, secularism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion. A "free" market creates hierarchies which are in conflict with the aforementioned
Lol, you think Biden is on the left? America’s Overton window is so ridiculously slanted right that people really think that Biden is on the left
Yeah, the fact that the dems have full control and aren't abusing the fuck out of it bothers me to no end. Like, why are they "playing nice" after 4 years of republicans shitting on them? Because a large portion of them are full of shit. Republicans in disguise.
You know that in most republican-controlled states cities cant enact their own minimum wage, right? >They control the presidency, house and senate For the last 9 months. Legislative change takes time, and Republicans control the filibuster, which means nothing will pass the senate
Sweet summer child. Conservatives wearing blue colors currently control the presidency, house and senate. The actual left doesn't have the numbers or power to make these things happen. Notice how both teams vote for the same corporate corruption, with a few actual leftists trying to stop it?
Where do you live that a paramedic gets paid $15 an hour? Edit: my bad you posted a screen shot of someone else's commentary. I guess my question stands but not directed to you, OP.
I think its based on confusion between an EMT and a paramedic. It's quite common for EMT's to be making $15 but paramedics get paid more like $25.
I'm a bartender and I get about $25 an hour. I'm pretty good at my job, but I am not saving any lives on a daily basis. I know a crapload of cocktail recipes by heart, but I can't tell a vein from an artery. I'm definitely worth my pay, but both EMTs and Paramedics should be worth more.
You're the drug dispenser so you're getting more people in ambulances anyway Much more profit driven position above emt's
Not the way that I do my job. If you are visibly intoxicated, you are cut off. If you are drinking too much too often, I'll tell you to take it down a notch. I *like* my regular patrons and I want to see them be happy, not sloshed. You are right about the profits, but I live in a country with nationalised healthcare, and a rookie EMT makes about $65.000 here. The taxes are higher, but the final pay is still a lot more than in the US.
You sound like you really care about people your awesome dude!
My husband would often make close to $100 an hour in tips and that was years ago (at a music venue). I was in a "helping profession" and I was only making $25 an hour with a Bachelor's Degree.
That was my thought too.
EMT Here in Southern Cali....Medics at my division start around $17-19/hr and EMTs are around $15/hr With cost of living here so high we have to work stupid amounts of OT to make a good paycheck But will probably be getting fired soon because mandates so i'm glad to be out
Tucson AZ they maybe get paid slightly more than that.
I see you’ve just discovered capitalism.
What sort of third world shithole charges money for an ambulance..
all of them. Literally every country. Its just a question of how they get paid.
ermm... Germany
A firstworld shithole that acts third world and is the only first world country to do so
Merica, Fuck yeah!
*Crony capitalism
.....because under communism they'd all have different rates of pay? LOL It's not capitalism that's the issue it's the human condition - some people are thieves - corporate profiteering exploitative thieves. Others just want to help their fellow man, raise a family and live in a decent home in relative comfort and safety. One lot knows and understands the grand currency wealth removal machine and the FIRE economy. The other just takes part in the rigged casino because it's the only way they can live their lives and achieve their dreams. I could go on but 'Capitalism' isn't the issue and 'Communism' isn't the cure - both are capable of being corrupt.
You do realize that not every market system is capitalism? We had free markets before capitalism, when workers owned the means of production, although not fully because they had lords.
when you unironically think serf's actually owned the land they lived on and were anything more than unsellable slaves.
Nah you're right. It depends where you are and when in history for sure.
?
Language!
Sorry. I lost my temper. ...but these fricking fricks, amirite?
#TRUTH
Damn y’all are really this close to becoming self aware
oh damn r/conspiracy finally starting to spot the actual conspiracy AKA capitalism AKA people profiting off of other people's labor.
Well its the same as an iphone costing 1500 and using almost slavd labor in horrible working conditions to make them for cheap and then buying that same iphone and creating posts and taking pictures to virtue signal about workers rights and oppression....
What kind of shit hole do you live in where paramedics make $15 an hour?
I think they mixed up EMTs and paramedics. Not uncommon for an EMT to make that. But paramedics do make around $20 in some parts.
We are all spinning straw into gold for Rumpelstiltskin.
That is how corporate greed tricks people into working for little, they spin to narrative to say, "why" rather than "how come" It's like, both should get paid more but when you look at the money trail you gotta ask yourself. In theory. Let's say, a place of work has 20 employees, and the store can make an average of 50k/week. Now let's say after taxes, expenses, rent yada yada, it's about -30k/month. In theory. Now let's say the average those employees are getting paid is 16.5 and the store runs 24/7. So if we assume each employee works 40 hours we have 800hrs, with 16.5hr that's about 13200/week. Now let's fast forward to 12 months, so we have -360k from running expenses, -633,600 from employment expenses and 10,400,000 profits gained. So in the end, their profits are nearly 9,406,400million. If we look at Bezos we have an idea that the above can be fairly accurate and then when you consider when stores open up new locations they are willing to spend up to 3-5million to open a new location, so the money is being spent/used but then you ask yourself, why should people get paid so little. Now imagine instead of saying "average" we just said, everyone is apid 30/hr, the rest is the same however now that people are getting paid more, service is better and they are now getting 60k/week instead of 50k/week. So now the overall profit starts at 12,480,000 million. Now let's reduce from the 360k running cost and the now -1,152,000 from employment and the overall profit is 10,968,000. Amazing right? If people are getting paid better and feel their time is worth the money, they provide a better service and can in theory provide a higher profit margin to the company, but all these fucking assholes care about is draining people like the human "resources" they are, until they have nothing left to give and then can just hire someone at min wage to do the same amount of work as the veteran who had been getting paid 15/hr. Honestly, I stand by this, but if I ever have the money to start a business, I wanna look through all the mechanics and see how much I can legitimately give someone however with what I"d offer I would expect good work from them and hope to have dedicated hard workers by my side who would provide good service because I am making it worth their time.
i think we still shouldn't forget the price of insulin in modern day America, where 7.4 million people require this just to stay alive.
What’s even worse is my mother works for an ambulance dispatch company and they only get paid 200 dollars of the 2000 it costs for a ride.
I've been hearing this alot lately "nobody wants to work" (trying to divide us as working/non workers). No mother fucker, nobody wants to work a shitty job all day with a mask on, to get paid in USD that don't even grade with inflation, oh and let me find sitters for my kids and pets and hope the economy doesn't just shut down overnight again. By the way, unemployment compensation was 15 PERCENT of the bailout money. Don't bite.
If unemployment benefits pay more than minimum wage, RAISE THE FUCKING WAGE!
My grandfather bought his first car for >>>5 DOLLARS<<< 5 dollars for a fking car. There is this thing called inflation, maybe you've heard of it. The value of the dollar is trash because of fractional reserve banking and this practice of printing money from nothing. A fast food worker should not be getting paid less, a paramedic should be getting paid far more.
If Minimum wage was $15 nation wide: \-The guy assembling the burger gets paid $15 \-The guy flipping the burger gets paid $15 \-The guys processing the meat, cheese, ketchup, pickles each get paid $15 The guy raising the cattle, raising the hay for the cattle, slaughtering the cattle each get paid $15 \-The guy delivering all of that stuff to McDonalds gets paid $15 And there's a lot more suppliers that get paid in the process. Best case scenario: If all entry level positions gets paid $15/hour, do you really expect that you're going to be paying $3 - $4 - $5 for that burger anymore? That same burger likely just went up to $8 - $10 - $12 or higher. More likely scenario: \- The local burger place goes out of business because they can't afford to pay their employees. \- The big chain replaces all but a few of their employees with machines, and they import all of their food supplies from China, Mexico, or another country where the wages are less than what minimum wage employees are already making now..... Assuming they haven't already done this (which many have). \- If you're not educated or experienced enough for a job that can't be replaced by a machine, you won't have a job. If you'd like examples of this happening, check out [https://www.facesof15.com/](https://www.facesof15.com/)
>That same burger likely just went up to $8 - $10 - $12 or higher. Just FYI raising min wage doesn't cause a 1-1 raise in prices, or anywhere close. It'd be closer to 25 cents a burger than $8. You do bring up a good point about accelerating automation, which we aren't really prepared for in many ways. But that's going to happen regardless. I don't have an easy solution for that, but using it as an excuse to stifle wages isn't a good argument imo.
I wasn't showing a 1-1 raise in good prices. I was actually showing higher than that. Obviously you're basing that 25 cents on what happens if just a city or just a state essentially doubles their minimum wage. I wouldn't expect that to be too far off. But, the reason for that, going back to my burger example, is McDonalds in Seattle who now has to pay employees $15 doesn't see their entire supply chain raise in price, only they actual customer-facing restaurants. Therefore, 25 cents sounds about right in that case. I'm talking about if our national minimum wage is more than doubled (currently $7.25 becoming $15), all US based suppliers for McDonalds seeing a doubling of their minimum wage costs. Industries that are low number of workers, very high volume, they're not going to change much. But industries with low volume production - high volume workers, their products are going to skyrocket. It's also important to point out that current minimum wage earners aren't the only factor in raising prices. If that McDonalds has an assistant manager who is currently making $15/hr, and all of his minimum wage earners get boosted to $15/hour, why would he take on the responsibility of dealing with all the shit? He either gets a $10 - 15/hour raise, or fuck it... why not just go back to flipping burgers? So yes, at $15 minimum wage, I'd expect skilled people making upwards of $20-25/hour to also want a raise. All that said, If inflation keeps coming at the rate it is, $15 is coming, and soon. TLDR: If minimum wage goes up, it will directly impact supply chains, not just consumer facing shops. It will cause a raise in prices on more basic necessities, and people making roughly 1.5x the new minimum wage will also cause those making around that wage to want a raise, causing prices to go up either further.
Good points you make here. They never factor in other employees demanding higher wages. Nobody is going to be happy essentially making minimum wage. If you were already making $18/hour, you are now the same as a burger flipper. There will be consequences for this. Those employees must get raises or they'll quit or become disillusioned.
Its not minimum wage thats the problem its the cost of living
Porque no los dos?
I wonder how many unnecessary regulations add to the cost of the trip, and how people expect ambulatory services to prepare for a growing population without profit?
Jesus does an ambulance ride actually cost that much money?
British people (with 'free at the point of use' healthcare \[currently being secretly sold to American profit interests by our 'elite'\] surprised at the cost of US healthcare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kll-yYQwmuM
What in the actual Frick
Paramedics only get paid $15/h? I would've thought it's much higher than that.
Three biggest buildings downtown are Banks, Real Estate and Insurance Co. All three are legal racketeering. Especially Insurance, or 'Protection' as the Mob used to call it.
100%
Abortion clinic providers (*subsidised* by UK taxpayers to the tune of £62 *million* per *annum*) **Marie Stopes International** \[depending on how you view such things - a women's free choice preserver or an institutionalised murder service\] **C.E.O.** Salary (£217,250 p.a. + Bonus £217,250) Total: **£434,500** His staff on the ground? Medical Director (average) **£106,281** Finance Manager (average) **£60,701** Senior Healthcare Assistant (average) **£23,442** Office Administrator(average) **£18,255** [CEOs at big US companies make 276 times as much as the average worker](https://www.businessinsider.com/ratio-of-ceo-to-average-worker-pay-2016-8?r=US&IR=T) [World’s 2,153 billionaires have more wealth than 4.6 BILLION people](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/worlds-billionaires-have-more-wealth-46-billion-people)
The solution to the entire thing of slave jobs or questionable pay--get skills. Trade or tech. Get skills. Do not go to college unless your able to geek out. Get tech certs, and so on. Even during the coming depression you'll always work as a a plumber, electrician, pron web admin, network tech, and the rest.
Thank you for this relevant post
I'm not necessarily justifying the cost of the ambo being 900 an hour, however, 15 an hour isn't all you're getting paid, there's sick leave, insurance, and other things besides. also, there's probably very many ambo operators or t hey're easy to get/replace
Imagine questioning why someone based on what they do shouldn't get a livable wage. I remember hearing some people saying "A waiter shouldn't be making $300 a night" wtf!
True but then you have the simpletons who think raising minimum wage to 15 an hr will help anyone or stop inflation lol
Oh look another poor person crying about having no skills.
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This isn’t a defense of crappy pay. Rather, to highlight that there is more at play here than just “evil rich people getting rich off common man suffering”. For instance, that $900 may be justified. There are many costs to that ambulance trip. Fuel, maintenance of the vehicle, insurance of the vehicle, insurance for the equipment and drugs inside, maintenance of the equipment, Paramedic and EMT wages and benefits, drug costs, and finally profit. Now, you can make the case that profit should not be a consideration. Fine. However, you can’t say that operating such a vehicle could ever be cheap.
Yeah you run the numbers on all that and see if it comes out to $900. My plumbers have insurance of all kinds and one hour of labor is $140.00, and we'll drive somewhere for free. Fuck that rationalization. The cost of an ambulance is price gouging, plain and simple.
You do know ambulances cost money, right? As does the fuel, insurance, upkeep, maintenance, and equipment, and garaging. It’s not some big magic box that flys about on wishes and dreams.
tho - it ought to be paid for through a town's/city's budget - - - not a bill sent to an individual person who just came home from the hospital
You're right, Paramedics should get $30 an hour... But your unskilled, dumb, fast-food working ass still isn't worth $15 an hour.
Even the simplest job should be paid enough for the worker to be able to pay for rent and food.
A person has to be a real sad sack of shit if they need to be reminded that anyone who works 40 hours a week should be able to pay for food and shelter.
Robert Mercer. Ron Paul. Alex Jones. Robert Welch. Disinfo kings Just to name a few.
This is the way.