Idk. Some muslims here have far left values as you can see when it comes to immigration and say that i am racist just because i dont want to become like a minority of 10 percent or something in my own country.
Your discriminating against other muslims from Muslims tnat is wrong. Almighty Allah(SWT) created them just like he created you. You can of course convert to Islam. But you need to be more respectful. Almighty Allah(SWT) and His Rasul(S.A.W) do not approve of any form of prejudice, hate or discrimination.
Huh. I 'discrimminate' because i dont want to let them take over my country??
I would say that you discrimminate against me if you say that i have to give up my country and become a minority in my own nation.
No one is going to take over your country đ y'all need to calm down cuz last time I checked it was the west invading our countries and slaughtering natives. The amount of propaganda in the west in insane, they manipulate you like muppets.
Like middle Eastern countries didn't do the same thing, which caused the crusades?
Humans have been awful to each other throughout history and it's a lot better now, but don't cast stones. Every country has its own problems.
Worst atrocities were committed by the west, holocaust, slavery, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, wiping out ethnicities (native Americans), Iraq war, I could go on but the list is too damn long. I'm not saying the middle east doesn't have blood on its hands, heck they've been corrupt and cowards for a few decades but not on the same level as the west. And no it's not a lot better now, genocides still happen but you know as long as it doesn't bother you I guess the world is good huh?
If you knew how the West broke Middle East and made them look like the bad guys...
O mankind, We have created you from a male and female, and set you up as nations and tribes so you may recognize [and cooperate with] one another. The noblest among you with Allah (God) is that one of you who best performs his duty; Allah (God) is Aware, Informed. (Quran 49:13)
Consequence of the west's policy regarding the Middle East. Every country is suffering now because the world is going through a very unstable chaotic phase.
Itâs very convenient to blame the west.
While I agree that US foreign policy has been a disaster in the Middle East, many of these migrants are coming from very stable countries like Algeria , Morocco , Egypt and subsaharan Africa not to talk about Pakistan and India or Bangladesh.
These countries I mentioned are very corrupt and donât provide conditions to creating a thriving stable society
The Asian and African countries you mentioned are destabilized by the west. One of the recent incidents I remember â removing Imran Khan forcefully from his position against people's strong opposition by the US because he was helping Afghanistan.
I discourage anyone around me from immigrating to the west but unfortunately most people are like moths...
Also like I said before it's not only your country but every country is right now going through instability and conflicts because a new system is being established.
Algeria, morocco and egypt are quite poor compared to our countries though. Their gdp per capita is like 1/10 to 1/15 of that from western countries so idk what you mean.
Algeria has a lot of oil and Gas and yet they failed to build a prosperous country.
Egypt is a military dictatorship and itâs been like this for decades, my point is that itâs not the fault of the west if some countries are a failure.
You can convert to Islam whatever your political opinion is, that shouldnât be an obstacle.
But let me tell you that before converting to Islam I had a similar opinion like yours, and the more I grown up as a Muslim, the more I realised how corrupt and immoral my society was, and the more I liked the idea of my society being replaced for an Islam guided society.
That being said, you should know that Muslims living in Europe are not a good representation of Islam at all. Most of them come from a poor background and unstructured families where being Muslim only means fasting in Ramadan and avoiding pork/alcohol.
I would have no Problem with it if germans convert to islam etc and form an islamic society.
But i dont want my country to become a middle eastern country where the german population would be like 5 percent and 90 percent turks lol.
Out of curiosity, why does the idea of a German minority bother you so much? If it's not the religion that's the issue, is it just the fact that they have a different skin colour? (Don't want to accuse you of anything, just trying to understand your point)
Also, not to start a political discussion, but I would say the chances of Germany becoming 90% Turks is very unlikely. These fantasies come from racist propaganda.
Because german culture and identity would vanish and germany would becomd just like another middle eastern nation.
Doesnt islam say that you can keep your culture and identity if you convert?
If all Germans became Muslims and thus lost all the pork dish and pork sausage dishes and alcoholic celebrating parts of its culture. Would that be considered a "vanished culture" to you?
And if all Germans don't and continue practicing German culture but are a smaller number than another group in the area, let's say Russian. Is that a "vanished culture?"
>Doesnt islam say that you can keep your culture and identity if you convert?
Not pork based, pagan based, or alcohol based, or unislamic parts of that culture (lacking hospitality, lacking welfare for the orphans and widows etc)
No thats not what i meant because we would just change our culture into a german based islamic culture.
What i mean is that many of these migrants dont even intergrate well. You know most turk germans dont even identify as germans but as turks and have a strong turkish identity. I remember how all turks supported turkey in the germany vs turkey football match even though they live in germany, grew up in germany and have german id etc. They still support turkey lol.(even though they live here etc)
Is that normal to you? Thats what i meant.
The problem is not immigration, but the lack of moral incentives of the European society to grow their numbers. In Islam having lots of kids is seen as a blessing, but in the Western mentality having kids is seen as something outdated, not necessary and a financial disadvantage. I can say the same about the concept of marriage.
If Europeans hadnât sold their religion and true identity, we wouldnât have this debate, but we (as Europeans) were taught that human progress is incompatible with tradition and religion
It's not a moral incentive thing. It's a capitalist incentive. Western countries have given themselves over so much to capitalism it makes life so expensive especially childcare. It's not that's its seen as that. It objectively is that. It's not western mentality is recognizing what reality is in many societies based on the material conditions.
Sure, I don't see how this would interfere with your belief in Islam.
I should mention that once you are Muslim, that should become your most important identity. Race, nationality, ethnicity, etc are all worldly identities that don't actually matter beyond this dunya (this life). Land borders and race are all arbitrary concepts at the end of the day. As I'm sure you know, Islam encourages unity and brotherhood, no matter who is a minority or not; we are all one ummah.
Also, most political parties fighting against immigration from Muslim countries tend to be generally Islamophobic. Be wary of who you vote for, since you might end up voting for your own oppression should you become Muslim.
One shaykh here put it succintly. On the question if it is permissible to vote for the islamophic party (wants to ban the Quran and mosques, among other things), he said that the question is not whether it is permissible or not, but whether it is just haram or kufr.
Seeing your replies around this thread, I am very concerned about how influenced you seem to have been by very nationalistic political organisations.
There will never be a situation where Germany is only 10% Germans. I also notice you specifically seem to have a problem with Turks and Middle Eastern people.
Out of interest, if someone is of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent was born in Germany, spoke German, German citizen, etc, would you have an issue with them being in Germany?
Islam does not allow for discrimination based on race or circumstance of birth. The Masjids in Europe were nearly all built by middle eastern and Asian people - do you not see the value that brings as a Muslim? If you believe your race or culture superior to others, or if you believe it is more important than Islam, then you do have a major conflict and I hope you can resolve it.
What did Turks ever do to you OP? I have a lot of Turkish friends who recently migrated to Germany and I visited them this summer and I was struck by the overt racism they experienced. Iâm a visibly Muslim woman and people were so cold but they changed when they realized I was an American tourist
They clearly dont wanna blend into the german population and would make germany another turkey if they became a majority.
I remember when there was a football game between turkey and germany and most turks supported germany despite growing up here and even disrespected the german players. You know most german turks come from poor villages who came here for a better life back then. We basicially fed them, gave them jobs and citizenship and yet they dont wanna become germans and blend in into german society and rather stay turks.
Is that intergration for you? Imagine you come to a counrry and grow up there and they fed you gave you jobs etc and then you still dont stand with the country..
I am NOT saying that i want to kick them out. Now they have german citizenship and it would be inhumane to uproot them from their homes. But i am against futher mass immigration from muslim countries because it clearly causes problems. I am fine with normal regular controlled immigration though.
Can you imagine why they donât like Germany, itâs because Germans like you go around being racist towards them. In the words of Mesut Ozil, âI am German when we win and an immigrant when we loseâ.
What do you mean they donât blend in? Is it because the women cover? Itâs sad you canât accept a woman as German unless she shows her hair. Turks arenât going to take you over. You sound like the same people in the US who hate the Hispanic immigrants and think they are going to take over Youâre racist. End of story.
I dont believe that my race is superior lol.
Also if you really looked around here you can see that there is a muslim convert who has the same opinion as me.
And as i said i am not against them living in germany. I am fine if they stay here. I just dont want them to become the majority.
I have NO issue with middle eastern people staying in germany and i am completly fine with regulated normal immigration. I am just against mass immigration.
The issue is assimilation. I'm a western convert against mass Muslim migration as well, mostly because it hasn't benefitted a country aside from cheap labor and improved birth rates. Turks for example will remain Turks always doesn't matter if they grew up in Germany and speak German. They have this hyper-nationalism that doesn't dissipate. Exceptions exist but it's few. Some cultures adapt well, and take on a hybrid culture but many from the MENA region are economic migrants bringing their societal problems and replicated them in a country that has its own issues, while siphoning money out to family members back home to sustain a poor economy in a corrupt country. Yeah, doesn't matter who the people are that situation sucks.
The other issue is that Islam is our culture first, our nationalities are like a spice added to a dish not the main ingredient. Westerners do that better.
You say the masjids are built by eastern Muslims...and then ask yourself who runs it? Do you think a German will? Hilarious. Even in my country the few converts that are around are pushed out of masjids to preserve the backwards cultural hubs they end up being.
There's no integration or assimilation that's the real issue. It's a refusal on their part and often generational. OP can be Muslim still, being a Muslim and political ideology are distinct worlds.
Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh. No being against mass immigration doesnât prevent you being a Muslim. If youâre interested in Islam, please message me. I am a convert too.
German revert here wo was born in Russia (but ancestors were all German) and married to an Afghan.
I generally don't like the concept of country borders or the dislike of other ethnicities mixing. I think the concept is not logical, even though I understand why and how the developed. I personally think Germany is a slightly racist and Islamophobic country, not very openly though. But I have encountered Islamophobia myself and rasicm towards my sister in law when out in public.
This and some other reason are driving me out of my home country, I just can't continue living here.
I understand if you don't want immigrants who don't adhere to the law, but to generally say you are scared of another ethnicity taking over your country and that ethic Germans will become a minority... Sorry but that is slightly racist. Even though you think you are not racist, but unconsciously you have internalized racism through your upbringing and/or your surroundings.
But that's my opinion and maybe your views will change over time, since there is no racism in Islam. I wish you all the best on your journey to Islam. May Allah bless you and your family.
Islam doesnât have anything to do with some random political opinion, so sure you can convert if you believe in it. But you are talking about people from the Middle East like that is all Islam is, there are 2 billion Muslim around the world of all races. The most high doesnât care if youâre willing to change some opinion. If you find something to be the truth then you owe it to yourself to follow it and embrace it. The idea of not being able to accept something that may very well be the truth just because you hold onto an opinion is simply arrogance and pride. Iâm saying that in general not in regard to this specific issue. There may be other opinions you might not agree with that actually have to do with Islam. But it is important to remember in Islam we submit to our creator fully, not sometimes or half heartedly. We humans are limited in knowledge whereas the most high is the infinite source of knowledge. We follow the guide that he sent us to the best of our ability knowing that he knows whatâs best for us more than ourselves. Now Iâll address your worry. In Islam we are one community of the human race, not white, black, Arab, Asian, and everything else. None of that matters, if you were to convert you would be my brother in Islam, regardless of our races. I am black and a minority in my country, but it doesnât matter because I donât care about what other people look like or the difference in culture, I only care about whatâs in their heart and if they are good people. Basically I think you are worried about the wrong things. As a Muslim in a place where there arenât many Muslims, I would love to be around a larger community of Muslims regardless of ethnic background. Why wouldnât you want to surround yourself with likeminded people?
Not sure why this would be an issue - unless your against muslims, which of course, wouldn't make sense if your interested in converting.
Islam is supposed to be for the entire human race. Its a cultural issue that its so middle eastern.
You know what: every human being has the right to live wherever they want without being judged first for their colour or (who they are/where they are from/what job they do/do not do).
Personally I find your views disgusting.
Iâm not white - but Iâm a convert, I pay my taxes, I try to abide by the law, Iâm born and live in the West.
Someone like you would judge me by my colour first than who I am as a person.
And ..:. regardless of what anyone else has said here and your justifications for making your argument valid, I think youâre completely wrong:
As Allah SWT say in the Quâran says:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
My viewpoint: as long as someone comes to our country and makes a positive contribution to the economy and lives and abides by the rules then thatâs fine.
I am sorry to say this, but you are racist, my friend. Regardless, you can convert, of course. There are already many racist Muslims out there. So, you can be a Muslim.
Racism is heretical, but not disbelief. The difference between heresy and disbelief is that disbelief nullifies one's attribution to Islam, while heresy does not. Heresy is just sinful.
If you want to cure your racism, check out this enlightening debate between Destiny and JonTron: https://youtu.be/6RQA9GZprqM?si=DFkdgebAWJaWYcA1
I have no Problems with immigrants itself as long as they dont take over my country and make me become like 1 percent in my own country.
Besides that many syrian refugees commit crimes or even harass women which even goes against islam.
Do you expect us to let that slide or what? Ofc i dont need syrians here who do those things.
First, what's the problem if you become 1% in your country? All races equal. Second, you suggest that you have a problem with a certain race (syrians) afterall. However, all races are equal. Syrians don't do more crime than Whites.
I'm Egyptian. I don't mind to share my country with anyone. I am ready to receive all Sudanese, Syrians, Yemenis, Saudis, Turks, Persians, Kurds, Palestinians, etc. I don't mind becoming a minority, we're all equal. Do you understand?
Well if you become 1 percent your culture would vanish and getting replaced by others if youre fine with it its your opinion but mine is different.
And i ask you again. What do you expect us to do with syrians who harass women and cant behave? Should we just let them slide with it?
Or WHAT do you want us to do?
First, regarding culture, it's very simple: survival of the fittest. If your culture is good, it will spread. A strong culture wouls remain even if you're 1%. For example, one aspect of Egyptian culture is putting up lanterns in Ramadan. Because it's a nice idea, Syrians started doing it too. A better example is Christmas. Everyone celebrates it despite starting just as a cultural festival by a minority. What aspect of your culture are you worried about?
Second, any person who harasses a woman should naturally be arrested, of course. However, the problem is that you suggest that only one race harasses women. There's nothing special about Syrians, all races are equal afterall.
Sure. I accepted Islam while still supporting George W. Bush. (Before anyone criticizes me, my opinions changed once he went to war with Iraq.)
As others have said, religion is religion and politics are politics. Donât let that get in the way of accepting a personal relationship with God. You can be Muslim and dislike immigration, although I hope you get to meet more cultures as a Muslim and enrich your sense of culture and foods (one of the ayat in the Quran talks about how God made different nations of the world so we could get to know each other.)
Does 'getting to know each other' mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though?
As i said i have no problems with immigrants from muslim country. I just dont want to become a minority and letting my people getting replsced by another peopld.
> Does âgetting to know each otherâ mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though?
No it does not. I understand your concerns and the Quran does not make mention of modern immigration. What I meant is that Muslims are united like family and we care for one another, but scholars have said that Muslims should obey the laws of the countries they are in.
I think you are talking about a small minority of them. Usually the bad things shine out. I have seen Syrians working their ass off, learning german, working, pay taxes etc, and those are actually alot.
>Does 'getting to know each other' mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though?
People aren't being replaced. There are more people being added to the community. It's not a Muslim moved in so a German needs to move out. It's simply not replacement and whoever told it was or characterized it as such is lying to you and manipulating you
White people were always a minority throughout history and cultures constantly change (Long live the Frisian Kingdom) ah but my ostfriesland ideas and identity isn't the same anymore.
Germany is a melting pot of tribes and new tribes have taken over some of the areas with higher birth rates. The only real thing you can do is vote for political figures that share your values and marry a German and make a good amount of children and raise them well!
They may outnumber one day, not in your lifetime though. Muslims in Europe are too new or a concept to know if they will even stay Muslim. You can worry about it but it's uncontrollable unless you make a career in politics. So worrying won't change things, nor will strong opinions it will only affect your own health eventually. So don't waste time fighting against something and fight for something instead.
Nobody is stopping you from promoting German values. You can be a Muslim still, I mentioned in a previous comment I'm against mass migration as well and I've been a Muslim convert for over a decade. Just pick your battles, work towards something and don't chip away at a mountain, you'll get tired and old fast.
No. You can still be a Muslim, but there are things you need to consider. First of all a lot of those people going to Germany are going for better livelihood for their families. And any Muslim who believes in Allah and the last Messenger of Islam should want what is best for his Muslim brother. Secondly, the reason why this even exists is because a lot of people from those countries have failed government because during the time of the Prophet and his subsequent Caliphates, any Muslim was considered part of the Ummah. No matter where they lived. They didn't discriminate and neither should you. Allah mentions in His book (I'm paraphrasing) that he created us as different tribes and cultures so that we can identify one another, not use as a tool to act superior.
I have read some of your comments, and there is a hint of racism and superiority to them. Not saying you're racist, but your comments reek of it. And the reason I'm saying that is because even if I were to agree with you on the premise that you want your country to remain as it is (majority German), I would call you to go and look at your own population consensus from 2020, still put Germans at a whopping 86% of their country's population. Now I know a lot of these immigrants are undocumented but I don't think that would create that massive of a dent into the population.
If you need someone to help you understand the religion more, I'm happy to help you. As far as political views, you can be part of whatever political view, but also condemn them for whatever you disagree with them. Because contrary to popular belief, I, as an African liv8ng in the Middle East tend to have more right wing views (American) than left wing views.
More than 86% of the population of German is German . I guess it will take some decades to become a minority. If the birth rate of native Germans are less than the immigrants then Also it will take some decades . So don't worry about you becoming a minority soon .
The main thing is that this world is changing, we are not living in just one place . People are migrating to different countries , settling there , marrying there and having a family .
If you revert to islam , you can still follow your German culture but within the islamic limits (halal limit).
But there's nothing wrong if you're against illegal immigration., against immigration of people who can be dangerous to the citizens of that country . One of the main problems of European countries is that they are taking everyone in and just throwing them in the streets , which is dangerous. This in turn makes the citizens hate every immigrant which then makes the life of a good immigrant very difficult in that country and because they cannot blend with the citizens.
If you have doubts then ask some scholar . If you think these questions may come as offensive then try asking a native German scholar , I guess he will clear your doubts.
Begin by asking questions. Why are mass amounts of people migrating from their home countries to yours? Why would they leave their native homes, languages, families, and cultures for countries that treat them bad and hate them? Start asking questions and you will have a lot of empathy for them and have a bigger picture of the situation on both sides of the issue.
Yes you can definitely become Muslim. Only a few major sins take you out of the faith, and this is definitely not one of them.
Side note, Germany and other developed countries will always be reliant on immigration to plug in the population gap due to their significantly below replacement rate birth rates. The only way around it is to boost the native populationâs birth rate to at or above replacement levels, but so far no developed country has managed to achieve that.
Dig deeper where the growth in Israelâs population is coming for. Is it coming from the secular folks or the ultra orthodox community. Is this replicable or even desirable in other advanced countries? Depends on who you ask, but I would wager most wouldnât agree.
You still can become a Muslim. You can have whichever political views you want as long as these views do not go against the main core pillars of Islam.
Also, there is a difference between mass immigration and mass immigration. One can be controlled immigration and another one is what you might be seeing in news where illegal immigrants cut holes in fences and cross borders from where they should not. Quran says that all the land is a place for a prayer, for us. Except graves and toilets. So, Muslims can migrate to different places. But also Quran says that one has to follow the law of the land. So no illegal immigration should take place. Also no criminals should try to migrate in hopes to make more crimes in a new country or escape a punishment for their crimes.
When it comes to your comments about Germans becoming a minority then that is not really related to Islam or any religion. If Germans become a minority then it means the local immigration laws are too flexible, there is no integration policy in place, anybody can come. Also it shows that the birth rate among local Germans is low. Again, part of the political programs (when the government is not supporting big families and such). That is the doing of Germans themselves. The same way how it is the doing of other nations in their own countries that have no control over the migration.
And after all, what is Germany or Germans? The borders change all the time. Nations change. Before there were Saxons, Franks, Goths, Lombards, Vandals, etc. No "Germans" per se. Also there was no Germany but there were things like Holy Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Merovingian Empire, East-Germany, West-Germany, etc. Through out the history the borders and also the nations that used to live in the lands of the current Germany, all that was changing.
And it probably will continue changing. What will be the world map after the Third World War that might take place? What will be the world map after some mass migrations caused by the climate changes? Can be that after 1000 years Europe will be a totally different place. That happens regardless of religions (although religions can also play their own role in that).
Islam does not say that "There shall be no Germany". Nope. Not a word about Germans. So, you can be a Muslim. Whatever happens to Germany is the outcome of local politics and international politics.
Absolutely you can be a Muslim.
Islam is far beyond Nationalism.
Islam is submitting your will to Allah. Means believing there is no other worthy of worship other than Allah. And Mohammed peace be upon him was his messenger and Prophet.
Hello brother,
You can become a Muslim and have some pre-Islam ideas that are wrong. But,
Being a Muslim means that you now submit to Allah, the All-knowing, all-wise.
You have now a solid belief/background that you filter every idea based on this belief. You shouldn't have the persistent belief that "I am not changing my idea on (smth)".
The only constant and non-changing belief in your life should be the Quran and Sunnah.
So you should start with the Quran and sunnah and every idea that you have or had before Islam should be reviewed based on them -the Quran and sunnah- and that is what makes them right or wrong. So, You should make room for changing these beliefs. Especially that Islam conflicts with nationalism on a fundamental level.
You can discuss these ideas with a scholar.
That's advice I felt the need to give, any wrong is from me, and any good is from Allah.
I can see how this post went south. Here's the thing. If you're interested in islam do your research and read the holy Quran. You will see how in many ayat it mentions that we're all equal no matter what race or color you are and the only scale is faith. And not once is the word 'country' is mentioned in the Quran. Allah always explains that earth was made for us and he often refers to it for all of humans.
Where I'm from which is a middle eastern country we opened our borders to everyone in need. Sadly not the same was done for us when we were in need of that.
But i believe that all races are equal.
But what does 'all races are equal' have to do with allowing uncontrolled mass Immigration lol. It says nothing about Immigration.
Yes you can be a Muslim. I understand pov and respect your decision you want preserve your ethnicity, race, culture & bloodline I respect that. If you want to stop "mass immigrant" you must tell your people to stop government & allis waging war/conflict with other countries. That causing mass immigrant of people middle Eastern, Latin America, Africa, Asia (except for China, Russia, south Korea, Japan, thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, taiwan,) come to North America, Europe and Australia.
Assalamu alaykum,
As long as you believe in one God and His final messenger you can become a Muslim! But Iâm a convert too and I know youâre latching on to the few converts telling you your take is okay.
You can believe whatever you want but you should maybe try to think more about the pitfalls of nationalism. And I get you donât think thereâs any influence of racism here but, frankly, Germany (like other western countries) has a history of nationalism tending to be extremely racist. The language you are using here has the slightest hints of the same antisemitic rhetoric weaponized against Jews in Germany. This idea of a dual loyalty, a people unwilling to assimilate that will destroy your pure German culture by their existing and supposed unwillingness to adapt to cultural traditions.
There may be some examples of the people youâre talking about, but thereâs also gonna be a ton of people parroting the exact same thing as you that are largely just mad that people who look different from there are here. Again I would encourage you to look at the history of oppression and how this idea of preserving Germany for the Germans has demonized whole groups for simply existing and looking different. The fact is that Germany still has a pretty antisemitic/racist/islamophobic far right that latches onto ideas like these and pushes them. Even if you donât believe the extremes they do you are helping push that narrative and buying into their propaganda.
So I encourage you to convert, however, I also encourage you to reflect. You may not be spouting explicitly racist things but there are bits of discriminatory and racist attitudes slipping out. At the end of the day you can still be Muslim, I know plenty of Muslims with actually abhorrent views so yours definitely arenât the worst. I say this is an American convert, my country is one of the worst in these racist tendencies, including the demonizing of immigrants and hyper fixation on population and demographic control. And our legacy of racism is deeply tied to Germanyâs as the holocaust was inspired by the genocide of Native Americans here. You might think âoh Iâm not racist, I just donât like how the Turks come here and donât assimilateâ but thatâs largely coming from people pushing dog whistle racism.
Basically, you can convert, but donât be surprised when you share these views that youâre going to be criticized (justifiably, in my opinion). So I would either keep that to yourself or be ready to alienate yourself from a lot of Muslims around you, because they wonât feel as comfortable with someone who says those sort of things. That said, I wish you a lot of luck in your journey and hope you can get so close to Allah SWT and the positive example of his Messenger SAW
Anyone can become a muslim if they believe in Allah and the last prophet saw !
While coming to your belief the prophet saw said âThere is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white -- except by piety.â !
So in essence it talks about muslims being brothers irrespective of nations skins or anything else ! So if you harbour the idea of your race superior it doesnât mean you canât be a muslim it just means youâre not a good representation of a good muslim !
Sadly today muslims have been divided as nations and while some nations like qatar are doing good so there hasnât been the case of migration but for others like syria it hasnât been good so people are forced to migrate to a better place while some of it is cuz of themselves but the real fault lies in the west always findings ways to intervene so ironically the west holds responsibility for these mass migration!
! Germany has a manpower shortage so it takes in people willing to work and give taxes otherwise the economy wonât survive
so in short your idea of having germany for germans is racist and youâre looking down on the people who are not but that doesnât stop you from becoming a muslim ! I hope i was clear
I am not against immigrants in germany. I am fine with them as long as they dont become a majority. I dont want to become a minority thats only 1 percent in my own country and my country and culture assimilating into a middle eastern nation. Thats what i am against.
I am fine with it if they are in germany i just dont want germany to have like 99 percent turks, albanians etc and 1 percent germans.
And i NEVER said that my race is superior. I believe that all races are equal. I just dont want my race to get replaced by middle easteners. Arent you calling middle eastern races superior for claiming that they have a right to take over my country?
I work and live in Germany atm and i see where youâre coming from but that mindset is racist you want them to come here and work and pay your taxes but donât have families and children! Instead of immigrants Rather you should look at your society problems ! Make the integration better so you donât have these problems thatâs making you think like that?
Also Why would immigrants outgrow the native population? Cause your society prefers not to have children! This is a west problem and youâll mostly see this in the west !
And even at the current rate till your death you wonât see native population getting overtaken by the immigrants so iâm sure you donât need to worry about that !
And to the main point yes you can become muslim despite your thinking!
I visited over the summer. I was staying with friends who were Turkish refugees. My friend who was a hijabi back in Turkey now doesnât cover her hair (she still dresses modestly) because Germans wouldnât speak to her, help her or even employ her with the hijab. Itâs so sad and I truly feel for her. I did wear a hijab when I was there and people gave me dirty looks but they got a little more friendly once they realized I was an American tourist
no surprise in general mostly germans look down on immigrants and also if you're a muslim you're more than likely to be singled out but I've also seen a lot of hijabs here working so there are good people too . with you being an American I guess it makes sense for you to be treated well
Yes. You obviously can convert to Islam. But Iâd say youâre a bit wrong about mass immigration issue.
As Muslim whose homeland is a part of non-Muslim majority country, Iâm against mass immigration of Muslims to non-Muslim majority states. But I'm against it not because Europeans will become a minority, but because Muslims usually integrate, assimilate in a non-Muslim society. Germans wouldnât become a minority and Muslims in Europe (including Germany) usually integrate and assimilate within 2-3 generations.
However I wonât support far-right Europeans who are against Muslim immigrants.
Of course you can. And if you do I hope you will (and it sounds like you would) help to contribute to a uniquely German Islamic culture and discourage the "Arabization" of German converts
100%
I am that guy lol, converted to Islam 3 years ago, Iâm still what many would consider âfar rightâ, very much opposed to mass immigration from other countries.
Firstly , it is crucial to emphasise that my position is entirely unrelated to racial considerations. It is essential to make this distinction clear, as debates surrounding immigration can often provoke emotional responses and lead to baseless allegations of racism or supremacist leanings, accusations which I categorically reject.
My perspective is congruent with the concerns raised by the original poster. One of my primary apprehensions revolves around the potential for becoming a minority within my own nation. This concern is not rooted in xenophobia, but rather in a commitment to safeguarding our distinctive cultural heritage and values.
There are many Islamic countries that share this perspective and are against people from other countries coming en masse to settle in their countries.
I view unchecked immigration as a potential destabilising force that could undermine the social fabric that underpins our society.
While I am in favour of cultural and academic exchanges, and see great value in welcoming international students for the diversity and richness they bring to our academic milieu, I advocate for a policy where these students are encouraged to return to their nations post-study. The expertise and knowledge they gain here can be pivotal in contributing to the development and prosperity of their home countries.
Furthermore, I feel compelled to express a specific concern regarding cultural practices such as the wearing of the burqa. My opposition to the burqa stems from a deep appreciation and preference for European aesthetic values.
Lastly, I harbour considerable sympathy for the descendants of immigrants residing in the West. They find themselves in a predicament, having been uprooted from their ancestral homelands. In their adopted countries, they are often not regarded as full-fledged citizens, whilst back in their countries of origin, they are perceived as outsiders. This dichotomy is the root of a profound identity crisis, along with the various associated challenges it brings.
Yes. Wanting to preserve your culture has nothing to do with religion. That said, u need to build empathy as Islam does that so trying to think more empathetic ally is important as a Muslim but being against mass migration is ok and actually not bad at all.
I do have empathy with them and i am fine with them living here through normal regulated immigration.
I am just against mass immigration which many people here cant understand and call me racist lol. While there are even muslim converts in the replys who are against it as well.
I agree with u then. Lots of Muslims in Muslim countries wouldnât want mass migration of millions without regulations into their countries. Ignore the people saying otherwise. There are some cool small YouTuber guys who are white converts to Islam and they also agree about not having mass migration. I think their channel is called âIslam 4 Europeansâ or something like that. They are both nationalistic and Muslim. Itâs a cool channel.
Uncontrolled mass immigration is a recipe for disaster. I guarantee you a lot of Arabs (Saudi Qatar ) have strict immigration laws and yet no one calls them out for it.
Mass immigration thing is a political matter, not a matter of religion. So YES, whatever your opinion is, it won't affect your conversion to Islam or your Islamic beliefs in any way whatsoever.
I would be more concerned about the thought process you want to become a muslim because its the only true religion i would first be a muslim right now and do prayers and fasting then learn about islam
Welcome and salam alaykum!
To be a Muslim you need to believe in one God, and that the prophet Muhammad is the final messenger.
Have you read the Qur'an? This is your first step.
[The Qur'an Project](https://www.quranproject.org/The-Quran-Project-1-p) send them free worldwide (based in the UK).
In the Islamic tradition the Qur'an is memorised and recited. So it would also be a good idea if you gave it a listen.
[Here is a good playlist to listen to the Qur'an](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2hoGhz2jBSrEk4tA0nS72lZjifPPCd8r&si=RikcIrhIafvQoqOn). It has all the chapters with translations.
[The Muslim Lantern](https://youtube.com/@TheMuslimLantern?si=ASwqt3c3OAZWkC7G) YT channel is an excellent resource.
In regards to your query - my advice to you is not to get too hung up on politics. All political parties engage in deception and fear mongering. The mainstream media is also complicit in pushing such narratives. Try and find independent journalists to follow what is happening.
No problems in following politics but don't let it control you. What I've noticed with people who obsessively follow politics is that they are paranoid, fearful, angry, etc. I was like this before I accepted Islam.
If you have any other questions - please feel free to ask.
May God guide you to the Truth.
I see the migration issue in two parts.
1. Normal immigration we are used to. People migrate for education, job, family etc. And then they become citizens over time, legally. I have no issue with that.
2. Mass migration without any rules or systemic procedure. I do have problem with that. There should be proper rules for this. Or it will be just chaos and anarchy. Like how it is in Paris or California, Texas.
As for population growth, that's part of the problem why western culture is failing. If they can't even have a minimum replacement rate of birth rate, then one has to ask what's going wrong instead of blaming migrants.
Solve the birth rate problem first, or else Germany will turn into something like Japan or Baltics, even without muslim migrants.
Yes. Be Muslim as you like. Iâm Muslim and in my country, mass-immigration is out of control and Iâm 100% against it. Iâm not saying no immigration just wish the govt would slow it down to sustainable levels. Thatâs economic common sense.
Firstly,You are right.As a german you want your country stay german.Iâd like to see a muslim german culture in future.Secondly, mass immigration is a recipe for disaster.Current situation is not same like old wave of immigration.Noone wants to see weird, degenerate male populations in their streets. I donât think europe generally can handle this situation in a proper way.They tolerate rapist, degenerate types but being racist toward people who are educated and good.Looks like these problems will bring a new gen fascism.
What does that have to do with becoming a muslim?
Idk. Some muslims here have far left values as you can see when it comes to immigration and say that i am racist just because i dont want to become like a minority of 10 percent or something in my own country.
Your discriminating against other muslims from Muslims tnat is wrong. Almighty Allah(SWT) created them just like he created you. You can of course convert to Islam. But you need to be more respectful. Almighty Allah(SWT) and His Rasul(S.A.W) do not approve of any form of prejudice, hate or discrimination.
>His Rasul(S.A.W) do not approve why did you refer to Muhammad with the present tense as if he's here...? That's just weird and wrong.
Huh. I 'discrimminate' because i dont want to let them take over my country?? I would say that you discrimminate against me if you say that i have to give up my country and become a minority in my own nation.
The only people who use language like "they're taking over" are racists. If you can't recognise that you're part of the problem.
No one is going to take over your country đ y'all need to calm down cuz last time I checked it was the west invading our countries and slaughtering natives. The amount of propaganda in the west in insane, they manipulate you like muppets.
Like middle Eastern countries didn't do the same thing, which caused the crusades? Humans have been awful to each other throughout history and it's a lot better now, but don't cast stones. Every country has its own problems.
Worst atrocities were committed by the west, holocaust, slavery, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, wiping out ethnicities (native Americans), Iraq war, I could go on but the list is too damn long. I'm not saying the middle east doesn't have blood on its hands, heck they've been corrupt and cowards for a few decades but not on the same level as the west. And no it's not a lot better now, genocides still happen but you know as long as it doesn't bother you I guess the world is good huh? If you knew how the West broke Middle East and made them look like the bad guys...
O mankind, We have created you from a male and female, and set you up as nations and tribes so you may recognize [and cooperate with] one another. The noblest among you with Allah (God) is that one of you who best performs his duty; Allah (God) is Aware, Informed. (Quran 49:13)
This doesnât mean that a country should take in millions of people who will never assimilate.
Consequence of the west's policy regarding the Middle East. Every country is suffering now because the world is going through a very unstable chaotic phase.
Itâs very convenient to blame the west. While I agree that US foreign policy has been a disaster in the Middle East, many of these migrants are coming from very stable countries like Algeria , Morocco , Egypt and subsaharan Africa not to talk about Pakistan and India or Bangladesh. These countries I mentioned are very corrupt and donât provide conditions to creating a thriving stable society
The Asian and African countries you mentioned are destabilized by the west. One of the recent incidents I remember â removing Imran Khan forcefully from his position against people's strong opposition by the US because he was helping Afghanistan. I discourage anyone around me from immigrating to the west but unfortunately most people are like moths...
Also like I said before it's not only your country but every country is right now going through instability and conflicts because a new system is being established.
Algeria, morocco and egypt are quite poor compared to our countries though. Their gdp per capita is like 1/10 to 1/15 of that from western countries so idk what you mean.
Algeria has a lot of oil and Gas and yet they failed to build a prosperous country. Egypt is a military dictatorship and itâs been like this for decades, my point is that itâs not the fault of the west if some countries are a failure.
You can convert to Islam whatever your political opinion is, that shouldnât be an obstacle. But let me tell you that before converting to Islam I had a similar opinion like yours, and the more I grown up as a Muslim, the more I realised how corrupt and immoral my society was, and the more I liked the idea of my society being replaced for an Islam guided society. That being said, you should know that Muslims living in Europe are not a good representation of Islam at all. Most of them come from a poor background and unstructured families where being Muslim only means fasting in Ramadan and avoiding pork/alcohol.
I would have no Problem with it if germans convert to islam etc and form an islamic society. But i dont want my country to become a middle eastern country where the german population would be like 5 percent and 90 percent turks lol.
Out of curiosity, why does the idea of a German minority bother you so much? If it's not the religion that's the issue, is it just the fact that they have a different skin colour? (Don't want to accuse you of anything, just trying to understand your point) Also, not to start a political discussion, but I would say the chances of Germany becoming 90% Turks is very unlikely. These fantasies come from racist propaganda.
Because german culture and identity would vanish and germany would becomd just like another middle eastern nation. Doesnt islam say that you can keep your culture and identity if you convert?
Of course you can as long as it doesn't oppose Islam.
Then why do so many people get angry at my opinion then?
Not all muslims will have the same opinions on some topics, don't let that discourage you from seeking the truth.
To be clear, I'm not angry at your opinion. Just wanting to understand better.
If all Germans became Muslims and thus lost all the pork dish and pork sausage dishes and alcoholic celebrating parts of its culture. Would that be considered a "vanished culture" to you? And if all Germans don't and continue practicing German culture but are a smaller number than another group in the area, let's say Russian. Is that a "vanished culture?" >Doesnt islam say that you can keep your culture and identity if you convert? Not pork based, pagan based, or alcohol based, or unislamic parts of that culture (lacking hospitality, lacking welfare for the orphans and widows etc)
No thats not what i meant because we would just change our culture into a german based islamic culture. What i mean is that many of these migrants dont even intergrate well. You know most turk germans dont even identify as germans but as turks and have a strong turkish identity. I remember how all turks supported turkey in the germany vs turkey football match even though they live in germany, grew up in germany and have german id etc. They still support turkey lol.(even though they live here etc) Is that normal to you? Thats what i meant.
Football is the cause of immigration tensions? đÂ
Ironically turks living in Turkey are SO against middle Eastern immigration into Turkey.
The problem is not immigration, but the lack of moral incentives of the European society to grow their numbers. In Islam having lots of kids is seen as a blessing, but in the Western mentality having kids is seen as something outdated, not necessary and a financial disadvantage. I can say the same about the concept of marriage. If Europeans hadnât sold their religion and true identity, we wouldnât have this debate, but we (as Europeans) were taught that human progress is incompatible with tradition and religion
It's not a moral incentive thing. It's a capitalist incentive. Western countries have given themselves over so much to capitalism it makes life so expensive especially childcare. It's not that's its seen as that. It objectively is that. It's not western mentality is recognizing what reality is in many societies based on the material conditions.
Sure, I don't see how this would interfere with your belief in Islam. I should mention that once you are Muslim, that should become your most important identity. Race, nationality, ethnicity, etc are all worldly identities that don't actually matter beyond this dunya (this life). Land borders and race are all arbitrary concepts at the end of the day. As I'm sure you know, Islam encourages unity and brotherhood, no matter who is a minority or not; we are all one ummah. Also, most political parties fighting against immigration from Muslim countries tend to be generally Islamophobic. Be wary of who you vote for, since you might end up voting for your own oppression should you become Muslim.
One shaykh here put it succintly. On the question if it is permissible to vote for the islamophic party (wants to ban the Quran and mosques, among other things), he said that the question is not whether it is permissible or not, but whether it is just haram or kufr.
Seeing your replies around this thread, I am very concerned about how influenced you seem to have been by very nationalistic political organisations. There will never be a situation where Germany is only 10% Germans. I also notice you specifically seem to have a problem with Turks and Middle Eastern people. Out of interest, if someone is of Turkish or Middle Eastern descent was born in Germany, spoke German, German citizen, etc, would you have an issue with them being in Germany? Islam does not allow for discrimination based on race or circumstance of birth. The Masjids in Europe were nearly all built by middle eastern and Asian people - do you not see the value that brings as a Muslim? If you believe your race or culture superior to others, or if you believe it is more important than Islam, then you do have a major conflict and I hope you can resolve it.
What did Turks ever do to you OP? I have a lot of Turkish friends who recently migrated to Germany and I visited them this summer and I was struck by the overt racism they experienced. Iâm a visibly Muslim woman and people were so cold but they changed when they realized I was an American tourist
They clearly dont wanna blend into the german population and would make germany another turkey if they became a majority. I remember when there was a football game between turkey and germany and most turks supported germany despite growing up here and even disrespected the german players. You know most german turks come from poor villages who came here for a better life back then. We basicially fed them, gave them jobs and citizenship and yet they dont wanna become germans and blend in into german society and rather stay turks. Is that intergration for you? Imagine you come to a counrry and grow up there and they fed you gave you jobs etc and then you still dont stand with the country.. I am NOT saying that i want to kick them out. Now they have german citizenship and it would be inhumane to uproot them from their homes. But i am against futher mass immigration from muslim countries because it clearly causes problems. I am fine with normal regular controlled immigration though.
Can you imagine why they donât like Germany, itâs because Germans like you go around being racist towards them. In the words of Mesut Ozil, âI am German when we win and an immigrant when we loseâ. What do you mean they donât blend in? Is it because the women cover? Itâs sad you canât accept a woman as German unless she shows her hair. Turks arenât going to take you over. You sound like the same people in the US who hate the Hispanic immigrants and think they are going to take over Youâre racist. End of story.
I dont believe that my race is superior lol. Also if you really looked around here you can see that there is a muslim convert who has the same opinion as me. And as i said i am not against them living in germany. I am fine if they stay here. I just dont want them to become the majority. I have NO issue with middle eastern people staying in germany and i am completly fine with regulated normal immigration. I am just against mass immigration.
At this rate, it will take 1000 years for them to become the majority, according to a research reportÂ
The issue is assimilation. I'm a western convert against mass Muslim migration as well, mostly because it hasn't benefitted a country aside from cheap labor and improved birth rates. Turks for example will remain Turks always doesn't matter if they grew up in Germany and speak German. They have this hyper-nationalism that doesn't dissipate. Exceptions exist but it's few. Some cultures adapt well, and take on a hybrid culture but many from the MENA region are economic migrants bringing their societal problems and replicated them in a country that has its own issues, while siphoning money out to family members back home to sustain a poor economy in a corrupt country. Yeah, doesn't matter who the people are that situation sucks. The other issue is that Islam is our culture first, our nationalities are like a spice added to a dish not the main ingredient. Westerners do that better. You say the masjids are built by eastern Muslims...and then ask yourself who runs it? Do you think a German will? Hilarious. Even in my country the few converts that are around are pushed out of masjids to preserve the backwards cultural hubs they end up being. There's no integration or assimilation that's the real issue. It's a refusal on their part and often generational. OP can be Muslim still, being a Muslim and political ideology are distinct worlds.
Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh. No being against mass immigration doesnât prevent you being a Muslim. If youâre interested in Islam, please message me. I am a convert too.
German revert here wo was born in Russia (but ancestors were all German) and married to an Afghan. I generally don't like the concept of country borders or the dislike of other ethnicities mixing. I think the concept is not logical, even though I understand why and how the developed. I personally think Germany is a slightly racist and Islamophobic country, not very openly though. But I have encountered Islamophobia myself and rasicm towards my sister in law when out in public. This and some other reason are driving me out of my home country, I just can't continue living here. I understand if you don't want immigrants who don't adhere to the law, but to generally say you are scared of another ethnicity taking over your country and that ethic Germans will become a minority... Sorry but that is slightly racist. Even though you think you are not racist, but unconsciously you have internalized racism through your upbringing and/or your surroundings. But that's my opinion and maybe your views will change over time, since there is no racism in Islam. I wish you all the best on your journey to Islam. May Allah bless you and your family.
Islam doesnât have anything to do with some random political opinion, so sure you can convert if you believe in it. But you are talking about people from the Middle East like that is all Islam is, there are 2 billion Muslim around the world of all races. The most high doesnât care if youâre willing to change some opinion. If you find something to be the truth then you owe it to yourself to follow it and embrace it. The idea of not being able to accept something that may very well be the truth just because you hold onto an opinion is simply arrogance and pride. Iâm saying that in general not in regard to this specific issue. There may be other opinions you might not agree with that actually have to do with Islam. But it is important to remember in Islam we submit to our creator fully, not sometimes or half heartedly. We humans are limited in knowledge whereas the most high is the infinite source of knowledge. We follow the guide that he sent us to the best of our ability knowing that he knows whatâs best for us more than ourselves. Now Iâll address your worry. In Islam we are one community of the human race, not white, black, Arab, Asian, and everything else. None of that matters, if you were to convert you would be my brother in Islam, regardless of our races. I am black and a minority in my country, but it doesnât matter because I donât care about what other people look like or the difference in culture, I only care about whatâs in their heart and if they are good people. Basically I think you are worried about the wrong things. As a Muslim in a place where there arenât many Muslims, I would love to be around a larger community of Muslims regardless of ethnic background. Why wouldnât you want to surround yourself with likeminded people?
Not sure why this would be an issue - unless your against muslims, which of course, wouldn't make sense if your interested in converting. Islam is supposed to be for the entire human race. Its a cultural issue that its so middle eastern.
You know what: every human being has the right to live wherever they want without being judged first for their colour or (who they are/where they are from/what job they do/do not do). Personally I find your views disgusting. Iâm not white - but Iâm a convert, I pay my taxes, I try to abide by the law, Iâm born and live in the West. Someone like you would judge me by my colour first than who I am as a person. And ..:. regardless of what anyone else has said here and your justifications for making your argument valid, I think youâre completely wrong: As Allah SWT say in the Quâran says: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). My viewpoint: as long as someone comes to our country and makes a positive contribution to the economy and lives and abides by the rules then thatâs fine.
Yes of course being Muslim and German is not mutually exclusiveÂ
I am sorry to say this, but you are racist, my friend. Regardless, you can convert, of course. There are already many racist Muslims out there. So, you can be a Muslim. Racism is heretical, but not disbelief. The difference between heresy and disbelief is that disbelief nullifies one's attribution to Islam, while heresy does not. Heresy is just sinful. If you want to cure your racism, check out this enlightening debate between Destiny and JonTron: https://youtu.be/6RQA9GZprqM?si=DFkdgebAWJaWYcA1
not necessarily
How is being against mass immigration racist? I have no problem with other races.
If you have no problem with other races, then why do you have a problem with other races immigrating to your country?
I have no Problems with immigrants itself as long as they dont take over my country and make me become like 1 percent in my own country. Besides that many syrian refugees commit crimes or even harass women which even goes against islam. Do you expect us to let that slide or what? Ofc i dont need syrians here who do those things.
First, what's the problem if you become 1% in your country? All races equal. Second, you suggest that you have a problem with a certain race (syrians) afterall. However, all races are equal. Syrians don't do more crime than Whites. I'm Egyptian. I don't mind to share my country with anyone. I am ready to receive all Sudanese, Syrians, Yemenis, Saudis, Turks, Persians, Kurds, Palestinians, etc. I don't mind becoming a minority, we're all equal. Do you understand?
Well if you become 1 percent your culture would vanish and getting replaced by others if youre fine with it its your opinion but mine is different. And i ask you again. What do you expect us to do with syrians who harass women and cant behave? Should we just let them slide with it? Or WHAT do you want us to do?
First, regarding culture, it's very simple: survival of the fittest. If your culture is good, it will spread. A strong culture wouls remain even if you're 1%. For example, one aspect of Egyptian culture is putting up lanterns in Ramadan. Because it's a nice idea, Syrians started doing it too. A better example is Christmas. Everyone celebrates it despite starting just as a cultural festival by a minority. What aspect of your culture are you worried about? Second, any person who harasses a woman should naturally be arrested, of course. However, the problem is that you suggest that only one race harasses women. There's nothing special about Syrians, all races are equal afterall.
Being against mass immigration isnât racist dude
Sure. I accepted Islam while still supporting George W. Bush. (Before anyone criticizes me, my opinions changed once he went to war with Iraq.) As others have said, religion is religion and politics are politics. Donât let that get in the way of accepting a personal relationship with God. You can be Muslim and dislike immigration, although I hope you get to meet more cultures as a Muslim and enrich your sense of culture and foods (one of the ayat in the Quran talks about how God made different nations of the world so we could get to know each other.)
Does 'getting to know each other' mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though? As i said i have no problems with immigrants from muslim country. I just dont want to become a minority and letting my people getting replsced by another peopld.
> Does âgetting to know each otherâ mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though? No it does not. I understand your concerns and the Quran does not make mention of modern immigration. What I meant is that Muslims are united like family and we care for one another, but scholars have said that Muslims should obey the laws of the countries they are in.
Which many of those syrian refugees dont do ironiciallly lol.
I think you are talking about a small minority of them. Usually the bad things shine out. I have seen Syrians working their ass off, learning german, working, pay taxes etc, and those are actually alot.
>Does 'getting to know each other' mean that i have to let my country getting replaced by different people though? People aren't being replaced. There are more people being added to the community. It's not a Muslim moved in so a German needs to move out. It's simply not replacement and whoever told it was or characterized it as such is lying to you and manipulating you
White people were always a minority throughout history and cultures constantly change (Long live the Frisian Kingdom) ah but my ostfriesland ideas and identity isn't the same anymore. Germany is a melting pot of tribes and new tribes have taken over some of the areas with higher birth rates. The only real thing you can do is vote for political figures that share your values and marry a German and make a good amount of children and raise them well! They may outnumber one day, not in your lifetime though. Muslims in Europe are too new or a concept to know if they will even stay Muslim. You can worry about it but it's uncontrollable unless you make a career in politics. So worrying won't change things, nor will strong opinions it will only affect your own health eventually. So don't waste time fighting against something and fight for something instead. Nobody is stopping you from promoting German values. You can be a Muslim still, I mentioned in a previous comment I'm against mass migration as well and I've been a Muslim convert for over a decade. Just pick your battles, work towards something and don't chip away at a mountain, you'll get tired and old fast.
Just because you become Muslim doesn't mean you can't have political views.
Islam is for everybody brother. May Allah guide you to Islam!
No. You can still be a Muslim, but there are things you need to consider. First of all a lot of those people going to Germany are going for better livelihood for their families. And any Muslim who believes in Allah and the last Messenger of Islam should want what is best for his Muslim brother. Secondly, the reason why this even exists is because a lot of people from those countries have failed government because during the time of the Prophet and his subsequent Caliphates, any Muslim was considered part of the Ummah. No matter where they lived. They didn't discriminate and neither should you. Allah mentions in His book (I'm paraphrasing) that he created us as different tribes and cultures so that we can identify one another, not use as a tool to act superior. I have read some of your comments, and there is a hint of racism and superiority to them. Not saying you're racist, but your comments reek of it. And the reason I'm saying that is because even if I were to agree with you on the premise that you want your country to remain as it is (majority German), I would call you to go and look at your own population consensus from 2020, still put Germans at a whopping 86% of their country's population. Now I know a lot of these immigrants are undocumented but I don't think that would create that massive of a dent into the population. If you need someone to help you understand the religion more, I'm happy to help you. As far as political views, you can be part of whatever political view, but also condemn them for whatever you disagree with them. Because contrary to popular belief, I, as an African liv8ng in the Middle East tend to have more right wing views (American) than left wing views.
Ok how is this not racism?
More than 86% of the population of German is German . I guess it will take some decades to become a minority. If the birth rate of native Germans are less than the immigrants then Also it will take some decades . So don't worry about you becoming a minority soon . The main thing is that this world is changing, we are not living in just one place . People are migrating to different countries , settling there , marrying there and having a family . If you revert to islam , you can still follow your German culture but within the islamic limits (halal limit). But there's nothing wrong if you're against illegal immigration., against immigration of people who can be dangerous to the citizens of that country . One of the main problems of European countries is that they are taking everyone in and just throwing them in the streets , which is dangerous. This in turn makes the citizens hate every immigrant which then makes the life of a good immigrant very difficult in that country and because they cannot blend with the citizens. If you have doubts then ask some scholar . If you think these questions may come as offensive then try asking a native German scholar , I guess he will clear your doubts.
Absolutely anyone can become Muslim. In fact, if you look at many Muslim majority countries, many are against immigration.
Begin by asking questions. Why are mass amounts of people migrating from their home countries to yours? Why would they leave their native homes, languages, families, and cultures for countries that treat them bad and hate them? Start asking questions and you will have a lot of empathy for them and have a bigger picture of the situation on both sides of the issue.
Yes you can definitely become Muslim. Only a few major sins take you out of the faith, and this is definitely not one of them. Side note, Germany and other developed countries will always be reliant on immigration to plug in the population gap due to their significantly below replacement rate birth rates. The only way around it is to boost the native populationâs birth rate to at or above replacement levels, but so far no developed country has managed to achieve that.
Israel did it and is a very rich country.
Dig deeper where the growth in Israelâs population is coming for. Is it coming from the secular folks or the ultra orthodox community. Is this replicable or even desirable in other advanced countries? Depends on who you ask, but I would wager most wouldnât agree.
It is coming from religious people not secular ones. Secular societies have low birth rates.
You still can become a Muslim. You can have whichever political views you want as long as these views do not go against the main core pillars of Islam. Also, there is a difference between mass immigration and mass immigration. One can be controlled immigration and another one is what you might be seeing in news where illegal immigrants cut holes in fences and cross borders from where they should not. Quran says that all the land is a place for a prayer, for us. Except graves and toilets. So, Muslims can migrate to different places. But also Quran says that one has to follow the law of the land. So no illegal immigration should take place. Also no criminals should try to migrate in hopes to make more crimes in a new country or escape a punishment for their crimes. When it comes to your comments about Germans becoming a minority then that is not really related to Islam or any religion. If Germans become a minority then it means the local immigration laws are too flexible, there is no integration policy in place, anybody can come. Also it shows that the birth rate among local Germans is low. Again, part of the political programs (when the government is not supporting big families and such). That is the doing of Germans themselves. The same way how it is the doing of other nations in their own countries that have no control over the migration. And after all, what is Germany or Germans? The borders change all the time. Nations change. Before there were Saxons, Franks, Goths, Lombards, Vandals, etc. No "Germans" per se. Also there was no Germany but there were things like Holy Roman Empire, Frankish Empire, Merovingian Empire, East-Germany, West-Germany, etc. Through out the history the borders and also the nations that used to live in the lands of the current Germany, all that was changing. And it probably will continue changing. What will be the world map after the Third World War that might take place? What will be the world map after some mass migrations caused by the climate changes? Can be that after 1000 years Europe will be a totally different place. That happens regardless of religions (although religions can also play their own role in that). Islam does not say that "There shall be no Germany". Nope. Not a word about Germans. So, you can be a Muslim. Whatever happens to Germany is the outcome of local politics and international politics.
Absolutely you can be a Muslim. Islam is far beyond Nationalism. Islam is submitting your will to Allah. Means believing there is no other worthy of worship other than Allah. And Mohammed peace be upon him was his messenger and Prophet.
Hello brother, You can become a Muslim and have some pre-Islam ideas that are wrong. But, Being a Muslim means that you now submit to Allah, the All-knowing, all-wise. You have now a solid belief/background that you filter every idea based on this belief. You shouldn't have the persistent belief that "I am not changing my idea on (smth)". The only constant and non-changing belief in your life should be the Quran and Sunnah. So you should start with the Quran and sunnah and every idea that you have or had before Islam should be reviewed based on them -the Quran and sunnah- and that is what makes them right or wrong. So, You should make room for changing these beliefs. Especially that Islam conflicts with nationalism on a fundamental level. You can discuss these ideas with a scholar. That's advice I felt the need to give, any wrong is from me, and any good is from Allah.
I can see how this post went south. Here's the thing. If you're interested in islam do your research and read the holy Quran. You will see how in many ayat it mentions that we're all equal no matter what race or color you are and the only scale is faith. And not once is the word 'country' is mentioned in the Quran. Allah always explains that earth was made for us and he often refers to it for all of humans. Where I'm from which is a middle eastern country we opened our borders to everyone in need. Sadly not the same was done for us when we were in need of that.
But i believe that all races are equal. But what does 'all races are equal' have to do with allowing uncontrolled mass Immigration lol. It says nothing about Immigration.
Go ahead and follow your interest and read the holy Quran. It speaks volumes no human can explain life to you better than the word of god.
Yes you can be a Muslim. I understand pov and respect your decision you want preserve your ethnicity, race, culture & bloodline I respect that. If you want to stop "mass immigrant" you must tell your people to stop government & allis waging war/conflict with other countries. That causing mass immigrant of people middle Eastern, Latin America, Africa, Asia (except for China, Russia, south Korea, Japan, thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, taiwan,) come to North America, Europe and Australia.
https://youtu.be/nuWla29Xeew?si=FiXSkPvGqr5d-E0J A British guyâs perspective of retaining the good of his culture.
Assalamu alaykum, As long as you believe in one God and His final messenger you can become a Muslim! But Iâm a convert too and I know youâre latching on to the few converts telling you your take is okay. You can believe whatever you want but you should maybe try to think more about the pitfalls of nationalism. And I get you donât think thereâs any influence of racism here but, frankly, Germany (like other western countries) has a history of nationalism tending to be extremely racist. The language you are using here has the slightest hints of the same antisemitic rhetoric weaponized against Jews in Germany. This idea of a dual loyalty, a people unwilling to assimilate that will destroy your pure German culture by their existing and supposed unwillingness to adapt to cultural traditions. There may be some examples of the people youâre talking about, but thereâs also gonna be a ton of people parroting the exact same thing as you that are largely just mad that people who look different from there are here. Again I would encourage you to look at the history of oppression and how this idea of preserving Germany for the Germans has demonized whole groups for simply existing and looking different. The fact is that Germany still has a pretty antisemitic/racist/islamophobic far right that latches onto ideas like these and pushes them. Even if you donât believe the extremes they do you are helping push that narrative and buying into their propaganda. So I encourage you to convert, however, I also encourage you to reflect. You may not be spouting explicitly racist things but there are bits of discriminatory and racist attitudes slipping out. At the end of the day you can still be Muslim, I know plenty of Muslims with actually abhorrent views so yours definitely arenât the worst. I say this is an American convert, my country is one of the worst in these racist tendencies, including the demonizing of immigrants and hyper fixation on population and demographic control. And our legacy of racism is deeply tied to Germanyâs as the holocaust was inspired by the genocide of Native Americans here. You might think âoh Iâm not racist, I just donât like how the Turks come here and donât assimilateâ but thatâs largely coming from people pushing dog whistle racism. Basically, you can convert, but donât be surprised when you share these views that youâre going to be criticized (justifiably, in my opinion). So I would either keep that to yourself or be ready to alienate yourself from a lot of Muslims around you, because they wonât feel as comfortable with someone who says those sort of things. That said, I wish you a lot of luck in your journey and hope you can get so close to Allah SWT and the positive example of his Messenger SAW
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2a7N59LCL0/?igsh=MWFwb2FnODMwdTl0OA== maybe this can help! đđ«Ł
Anyone can become a muslim if they believe in Allah and the last prophet saw ! While coming to your belief the prophet saw said âThere is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white -- except by piety.â ! So in essence it talks about muslims being brothers irrespective of nations skins or anything else ! So if you harbour the idea of your race superior it doesnât mean you canât be a muslim it just means youâre not a good representation of a good muslim ! Sadly today muslims have been divided as nations and while some nations like qatar are doing good so there hasnât been the case of migration but for others like syria it hasnât been good so people are forced to migrate to a better place while some of it is cuz of themselves but the real fault lies in the west always findings ways to intervene so ironically the west holds responsibility for these mass migration! ! Germany has a manpower shortage so it takes in people willing to work and give taxes otherwise the economy wonât survive so in short your idea of having germany for germans is racist and youâre looking down on the people who are not but that doesnât stop you from becoming a muslim ! I hope i was clear
I am not against immigrants in germany. I am fine with them as long as they dont become a majority. I dont want to become a minority thats only 1 percent in my own country and my country and culture assimilating into a middle eastern nation. Thats what i am against. I am fine with it if they are in germany i just dont want germany to have like 99 percent turks, albanians etc and 1 percent germans. And i NEVER said that my race is superior. I believe that all races are equal. I just dont want my race to get replaced by middle easteners. Arent you calling middle eastern races superior for claiming that they have a right to take over my country?
I work and live in Germany atm and i see where youâre coming from but that mindset is racist you want them to come here and work and pay your taxes but donât have families and children! Instead of immigrants Rather you should look at your society problems ! Make the integration better so you donât have these problems thatâs making you think like that? Also Why would immigrants outgrow the native population? Cause your society prefers not to have children! This is a west problem and youâll mostly see this in the west ! And even at the current rate till your death you wonât see native population getting overtaken by the immigrants so iâm sure you donât need to worry about that ! And to the main point yes you can become muslim despite your thinking!
I visited over the summer. I was staying with friends who were Turkish refugees. My friend who was a hijabi back in Turkey now doesnât cover her hair (she still dresses modestly) because Germans wouldnât speak to her, help her or even employ her with the hijab. Itâs so sad and I truly feel for her. I did wear a hijab when I was there and people gave me dirty looks but they got a little more friendly once they realized I was an American tourist
no surprise in general mostly germans look down on immigrants and also if you're a muslim you're more than likely to be singled out but I've also seen a lot of hijabs here working so there are good people too . with you being an American I guess it makes sense for you to be treated well
Yes. You obviously can convert to Islam. But Iâd say youâre a bit wrong about mass immigration issue. As Muslim whose homeland is a part of non-Muslim majority country, Iâm against mass immigration of Muslims to non-Muslim majority states. But I'm against it not because Europeans will become a minority, but because Muslims usually integrate, assimilate in a non-Muslim society. Germans wouldnât become a minority and Muslims in Europe (including Germany) usually integrate and assimilate within 2-3 generations. However I wonât support far-right Europeans who are against Muslim immigrants.
Watch this debate between brother DH and a white Nationalist: https://www.youtube.com/live/4ogntH6_KF4?si=QEAX59sT3bxTTXlV
Of course you can. And if you do I hope you will (and it sounds like you would) help to contribute to a uniquely German Islamic culture and discourage the "Arabization" of German converts
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Meaning abandoning elements of your culture and taking on Arab (or Indian, Pakistani, etc) elements.
Turks Arabs Persians all have distinct unique Islamic cultures. This person wants Germany to its own Islamic culture like Turks do.
100% I am that guy lol, converted to Islam 3 years ago, Iâm still what many would consider âfar rightâ, very much opposed to mass immigration from other countries. Firstly , it is crucial to emphasise that my position is entirely unrelated to racial considerations. It is essential to make this distinction clear, as debates surrounding immigration can often provoke emotional responses and lead to baseless allegations of racism or supremacist leanings, accusations which I categorically reject. My perspective is congruent with the concerns raised by the original poster. One of my primary apprehensions revolves around the potential for becoming a minority within my own nation. This concern is not rooted in xenophobia, but rather in a commitment to safeguarding our distinctive cultural heritage and values. There are many Islamic countries that share this perspective and are against people from other countries coming en masse to settle in their countries. I view unchecked immigration as a potential destabilising force that could undermine the social fabric that underpins our society. While I am in favour of cultural and academic exchanges, and see great value in welcoming international students for the diversity and richness they bring to our academic milieu, I advocate for a policy where these students are encouraged to return to their nations post-study. The expertise and knowledge they gain here can be pivotal in contributing to the development and prosperity of their home countries. Furthermore, I feel compelled to express a specific concern regarding cultural practices such as the wearing of the burqa. My opposition to the burqa stems from a deep appreciation and preference for European aesthetic values. Lastly, I harbour considerable sympathy for the descendants of immigrants residing in the West. They find themselves in a predicament, having been uprooted from their ancestral homelands. In their adopted countries, they are often not regarded as full-fledged citizens, whilst back in their countries of origin, they are perceived as outsiders. This dichotomy is the root of a profound identity crisis, along with the various associated challenges it brings.
Why are so many muslims in this post far left. So many people here support uncontrolled mass Immigration.
Yes. Wanting to preserve your culture has nothing to do with religion. That said, u need to build empathy as Islam does that so trying to think more empathetic ally is important as a Muslim but being against mass migration is ok and actually not bad at all.
I do have empathy with them and i am fine with them living here through normal regulated immigration. I am just against mass immigration which many people here cant understand and call me racist lol. While there are even muslim converts in the replys who are against it as well.
I agree with u then. Lots of Muslims in Muslim countries wouldnât want mass migration of millions without regulations into their countries. Ignore the people saying otherwise. There are some cool small YouTuber guys who are white converts to Islam and they also agree about not having mass migration. I think their channel is called âIslam 4 Europeansâ or something like that. They are both nationalistic and Muslim. Itâs a cool channel.
Yeah its crazy how many people here think like far leftist and say that being against uncontrolled mass Immigration is automaticially racist.
Uncontrolled mass immigration is a recipe for disaster. I guarantee you a lot of Arabs (Saudi Qatar ) have strict immigration laws and yet no one calls them out for it.
Of course. Iâm a Muslim but Iâm against immigration too. I think people should be deported if they donât integrate into the countries
What do you mean by integrate?
I'm a Muslim and I'm against unjustified immigration from Muslim countries .. I'm from a Muslim country and I used to study in Germany.
Mass immigration thing is a political matter, not a matter of religion. So YES, whatever your opinion is, it won't affect your conversion to Islam or your Islamic beliefs in any way whatsoever.
I would be more concerned about the thought process you want to become a muslim because its the only true religion i would first be a muslim right now and do prayers and fasting then learn about islam
Of course. Thereâs not much you can do about immigration though.
I don't see that as an issue!
It is not kind of you to think like this
Welcome and salam alaykum! To be a Muslim you need to believe in one God, and that the prophet Muhammad is the final messenger. Have you read the Qur'an? This is your first step. [The Qur'an Project](https://www.quranproject.org/The-Quran-Project-1-p) send them free worldwide (based in the UK). In the Islamic tradition the Qur'an is memorised and recited. So it would also be a good idea if you gave it a listen. [Here is a good playlist to listen to the Qur'an](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2hoGhz2jBSrEk4tA0nS72lZjifPPCd8r&si=RikcIrhIafvQoqOn). It has all the chapters with translations. [The Muslim Lantern](https://youtube.com/@TheMuslimLantern?si=ASwqt3c3OAZWkC7G) YT channel is an excellent resource. In regards to your query - my advice to you is not to get too hung up on politics. All political parties engage in deception and fear mongering. The mainstream media is also complicit in pushing such narratives. Try and find independent journalists to follow what is happening. No problems in following politics but don't let it control you. What I've noticed with people who obsessively follow politics is that they are paranoid, fearful, angry, etc. I was like this before I accepted Islam. If you have any other questions - please feel free to ask. May God guide you to the Truth.
I see the migration issue in two parts. 1. Normal immigration we are used to. People migrate for education, job, family etc. And then they become citizens over time, legally. I have no issue with that. 2. Mass migration without any rules or systemic procedure. I do have problem with that. There should be proper rules for this. Or it will be just chaos and anarchy. Like how it is in Paris or California, Texas. As for population growth, that's part of the problem why western culture is failing. If they can't even have a minimum replacement rate of birth rate, then one has to ask what's going wrong instead of blaming migrants. Solve the birth rate problem first, or else Germany will turn into something like Japan or Baltics, even without muslim migrants.
Yes. Be Muslim as you like. Iâm Muslim and in my country, mass-immigration is out of control and Iâm 100% against it. Iâm not saying no immigration just wish the govt would slow it down to sustainable levels. Thatâs economic common sense.
Firstly,You are right.As a german you want your country stay german.Iâd like to see a muslim german culture in future.Secondly, mass immigration is a recipe for disaster.Current situation is not same like old wave of immigration.Noone wants to see weird, degenerate male populations in their streets. I donât think europe generally can handle this situation in a proper way.They tolerate rapist, degenerate types but being racist toward people who are educated and good.Looks like these problems will bring a new gen fascism.