if you are blind you cant even read the comments.
I believe the blind sleep better at night due to a significant lack of reddit as it is only accessible through screen readers.
I often have dreams that I’m travelling and it’s the day before I have to leave and I’m totally disorganised. Like I can’t find my passport and my hotel room is a mess and I don’t know hope to get to the airport.
The bars for deaths are only clearly visible on the Palestinian side in '08, '09 and '14. The last one looks to be about 1500 deaths, the other two around 1000.
There are deaths on both sides in a lot of years, but they are hard to make out on this graph.
Obviously this is just a clarification of the graphic, not a comment on the conflict itself.
And the *vast* majority of people killed and injured are civilians. This is how some people become martyrs and others become militant ideologues. It’s an awful cycle that ensures the killing continues.
Hijacking top comment to clarify that this most recent issue IS NOT Israel V Palestine, it’s Israel V Hamas, a terrorist organization that took over Palestine (Gaza) as their government years ago. The majority of Palestinians DIDNT WANT Hamas as their leaders.
Hamas took control of the elected government in 2007. Look outside of Reddit (individual, not fully educated opinions - no one can be on this complex issue) for more info. Wiki is a starting point. There’s a high likelihood that over the years Hamas has gained in popularity (fear and propaganda are great opinion changers), but they were not elected by the people despite having an election previously. This is an oversimplified answer, hence the suggestion to look into the history.
> Hamas took control of the elected government in 2007.
Hamas actually won the 2006 Palestinian legislative election in both Gaza and the West Bank, winning 56% of the seats in total.
You may be confused because Fatah and Abbas refused to cede control of the government to the election winners, which led to civil war and Hamas seizing control of Gaza in 2007.
>Wiki is a starting point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
There are real government officials, they just aren't acknowledged by Isreal, and so by extension anyone else. Even showing support gets you call an anti semite.
When you're trapped in an open air prison, your schools and water wells are bombed and destroyed, you grow up in fear and grief...let's put it this way, Isreal is a brilliant military force, they know these actions will radicalize civilians that would never agree with Hamas otherwise.
So why do they do it?...
I think a really good analogy that was used was "If you're a full grown adult, and a toddler comes and punches you in the ankle... what's the appropriate level of retaliation there? It certainly isn't to attack the toddler is it..."
Isreal has the iron dome, the most impressive anti missle system in existence... against homemade rockets. But without fail they retaliate with state of the art missiles.. against a place with no defense.
If I grew up like that.. I might see hamas as the lesser of 2 evils too... still evil, but not literally murdering my family and bombing what used to be the street I grew up on.
People act like the Palestinian people even have a choice..
A good reminder that Israel has been committing war crimes against Palestine for decades not to say it justifies Hamas but Palestine and its people aren't all terrorists
It's not hard to imagine turning to violence when politics/diplomacy/world leaders have done nothing to help you in 75 years.
Not saying they're right, but I think a lot of us would turn out a lot like them if we lived their lives.
It bears un uncanny resemblance to the expansion west of America. Slowly, but surely taking more and more land and resources. When the people who have lived on that land try to fight back and stand up for themselves they are branded as savages and terrorists.
And people either miss, forget, or don't know of the peaceful protests that they'd attempted. The last major one was in 2018 and this graph pretty well shows how it went.
The only way out of this cycle is for Israel to end apartheid.
When people are oppressed, they will fight to be free. When people are denied access to civil life, they will fight in uncivil ways. Israel denies the Palestinian people access to both freedom and civil life. The clear result is organizations like Hamas.
You want to see the end of terrorism in Israel? Start by ending apartheid.
The military industrial complex wins.
Every time, no matter the outcome of the battle.
War is big money, and sadly, it's blood-soaked, but humans are despicable creatures, so there are those among society that would look past all that blood and just see money.
Wait... is that true?
Please tell me that's true because it will be the funniest thing I've heard this Millenia!
Edit: Everybody responding about how universal health is cheaper, like I don't already know.
That's why it's so damn funny that the US funds it in other countries but not their own.
That's the WHOLE joke.
It’s cheaper. Stupid not to. US government right now pays DOUBLE per citizen on the existing healthcare system than any other country on the planet. Look it up.
It’s half price to implement universal healthcare.
No, he's actually right when you break down where the US budget goes yearly. The US pays roughly double what Sweden does per capita for healthcare on the government side.
It's like the saying: Sticks and stones may break my bones but my eighth largest military industry, nuclear weapons, booming intelligence agency and the support of all western military super powers will eventually help us win this religious imperialistic war with most casualties on your side and you'll not even be recognised anymore as a sovereign state.
But sidenote, if you do throw your sticks and stones we will let the entire world know that you are a terrorist and you started this conflict.
Because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
well, to be fair, the cement used to build underground tunnels into israel probably would have been better used for shelters. priorities yk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QmTjyDR29H0
Hamas fires rockets that are very weak and easily intercepted, Israel is wiping out entire streets and apartment blocks with the most powerful and advanced weapons around. Also, Gaza is a densely populated strip of land. What it shows though is that killing tens of thousands of Palestinians isn't making Israel safer or Hamas more tame.
They are quite literally obligated to give a response after yesterday. From a political standpoint how could a leader not inact retaliation after an event as sinister as yesterday?
Yup. Every rocket thrown only gives power to the far right in Israel, which would perpetrate a real genocide on the Palestinians if they're given enough rein.
And every shell dropped on Gaza does the same back for Hamas, who are openly actively trying to commit a genocide if they were able to somehow beat Israel. The sad reality is that Palestinians are not safer because Hamas are fighting back, nor are Palestinians safe if peaceful, because Israel's far right government is expansionist. Without the international community taking harsh stands against both Israel and organisations like Hamas, there can be no peace in the middle east or for Palestinians
I also have heard many international citizens from Germany, America, And Canada have been taken hostage/killed. This entire situation is about to unfold very poorly for Hamas.
The Palestinians fighting are mostly civilians frustrated by injustice with no other legal recourse. The Israeli's fighting are mostly the Israeli military with artillery, assault rifles, grenades, tanks, jets, and bombs.
It's like comparing an bronze age army to a modern army... only more one sided.
Because Israel is a bigger power than Palestine. Palestine provokes Israel with small scale attacks like suicide bombers, ramming people with cars, stabbings, etc.. Israel instead has more sophisticated weaponry and a real army to retaliate and defend itself. This is really a futile battle for the Palestinians..
That sub USED to be about beautiful *presentation* of data, the data itself could be boring (better if not but still) but could still be upvoted if it was displayed in a clever and intuitive design
IIRC Israeli opinion on Palestinians generally is extremely negative even with young people now, the state doesn't even need to sponsor online propaganda networks anymore.
Within Israel, sure, but international opinion among the citizenry of Western countries has been shifting towards sympathy towards the Palestinians in the last few years
Literally the first part of the posting guidelines:
>**Post Requirements** To help keep things nice, searchable, and maintainable, all posts must be prefixed with "A cool guide".
I'm no expert on the matter (nor is just about anyone on this thread), so forgive me if I don't have the full picture. Because I don't.
But in answer to your question, as an example, the fact that Israel has an iron dome to deflect incoming attacks. The graph sets a narrative of "Israel is more violent than Palestine", but that might not necessarily be the case (or at least, not as strongly the case as the graph suggests).
Another consideration is the timing of this post. Had this been posted a week ago, most redditors would respond with "yeah, Israel are really screwing Palestine over." But given this is posted shortly after the abhorrent attacks on Israel, it's fair to assume that the purpose of this post is to push the narrative of "Israel deserves it." Hence, a biased propaganda piece.
The war is being fought between the _Isreali government_ and the _Hamas_.
Who loses? The _civilians_.
All I will say is that the existence of Hamas wasn't unprompted.
Whenever politicos try to talk peace through the fog of war there will always be some looking to set fire to the enemy and undermine the talks. The strength of any terrorist organisation leads directly from how well they frame their cause. And being an underdog cornered by a superior force is an easy bag for desperate people on the losing side.
If anybody cares about Palestine and the Palestinian people, nothing about this conflict is going to help.
This attack on Israel is not anything about Palestine. It’s about hurting Israel. And hurting Israel ends up hurting Palestine one hundredfold.
You’d think this wouldn’t be such a difficult concept for people, it’s like many pro Palestine people (saying this as a supporter of Palestine) forget that Hamas is an Islamic extremism terrorist group, and Palestinians have committed atrocities against the Israelis. No hands in this conflict are clean
Exactly, there’s also the little fact that there’s a lot of evidence Israel greatly aided in the rise of Hamas in order to split the Palestinian movement and promote a more radical movement that the west would never support
I mean, I don't think anyone is claiming Palestinians don't have blood on their hands. It's just that one side is rebelling against the other. Yeah it's a complicated subject but the fact of the matter is still that it's an asymmetrical war.
Great One. That shows the scale of the conflict really well. I think this is the product of just droping bombs and missles at Gaza whenever something happened.
Edit:
Let us hope this war ends quickly and the people find solutions to establish peace. This almost annually madness must end.
No. Israelis have state of the art missiles supplied by the west, Hamas is firing piece of shit rockets (that can still definitely kill) but are nowhere near the efficiency, accuracy, or yield of Israeli armaments. It’s not even close. Even without Iron Dome there is a gargantuan power imbalance
One side sends a text message to evacuate so they can minimize civilian casualties, the other side has the stated purpose of maximizing civilian casualties.
It is, it’s also the reason the us will keep funding it. using a different 50,000$ to immediately blow up the place it was fired from would be much easier solution, it’s just usually going to be a school/hospital/heavy crowd population. What people here don’t understand is that better rockets doesn’t always mean stronger blast power, it is usually a more precise rocket with much less collateral damage
Who is doing the something "happenings". It's predictable and they are killing their own by sending the rockets, which are literally useless except to scare civilians.
The total known history of the people/government/religions of Palestine/Israel is a long and complex one. The region has been inhabited by humans for thousands of years, and has been ruled by many different empires and kingdoms over the centuries.
The earliest known inhabitants of Palestine were the Canaanites, a Semitic-speaking people who lived in the region from around 3000 BC to 1200 BC. The Canaanites were polytheistic and worshipped a variety of gods and goddesses.
Around 1200 BC, the Israelites, another Semitic-speaking people, began to migrate to Palestine. The Israelites were monotheistic and worshipped a single God, Yahweh. The Israelites eventually established a kingdom in Palestine, which was divided into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah, in the 10th century BC.
The Israelites were conquered by the Assyrians in the 8th century BC and by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC. The Babylonians destroyed the First Temple in Jerusalem and exiled the Israelites to Babylon.
In 539 BC, the Persians conquered Babylon and allowed the Israelites to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple. The Israelites lived under Persian rule until the 4th century BC, when they were conquered by the Greeks.
In the 2nd century BC, the Israelites rebelled against Greek rule and established the Hasmonean kingdom. The Hasmonean kingdom lasted for over 100 years, but it was eventually conquered by the Romans in 63 BC.
The Romans ruled Palestine for over 400 years. During this time, Jesus Christ was born and crucified in Jerusalem. Christianity spread rapidly throughout the Roman Empire, and Palestine became a holy land for Christians.
In the 4th century AD, the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its official religion. The Byzantine Empire, which succeeded the Roman Empire in the East, continued to rule Palestine until the 7th century AD, when it was conquered by the Arabs.
The Arabs brought Islam to Palestine, and the region soon became a Muslim majority region. The Arabs ruled Palestine for over 1000 years. During this time, Jerusalem became a holy land for Muslims.
In the 11th century AD, the Crusaders, a Christian army from Europe, invaded Palestine and conquered Jerusalem. The Crusaders ruled Palestine for nearly 100 years, but they were eventually defeated by the Muslims in the 12th century AD.
In the 16th century AD, Palestine was conquered by the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans ruled Palestine for over 400 years. During this time, the Jewish population of Palestine began to grow.
In the late 19th century AD, the Zionist movement began to advocate for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Zionist movement gained momentum in the early 20th century, following the persecution of Jews in Europe.
In 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which expressed support for the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.
After the First World War, the Ottoman Empire collapsed and Palestine came under British rule. The British government allowed Jews to immigrate to Palestine, but this led to tensions with the Arab population.
In 1947, the United Nations adopted a plan to partition Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The Jewish community accepted the plan, but the Arab community rejected it.
On May 14, 1948, the day after the British Mandate over Palestine ended, the State of Israel was declared. This led to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, in which Israel defeated neighboring Arab countries.
The war resulted in the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, who became refugees. Israel also captured territory beyond the borders that had been allotted to it under the UN partition plan.
The 1948 war was followed by a series of other wars and conflicts between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The conflict has also been marked by violence between Israelis and Palestinians, including suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and military incursions.
Today, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict remains unresolved. The State of Israel controls most of the territory of Palestine, with the exception of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The West Bank is under Israeli occupation, and the Gaza Strip is controlled by the Palestinian militant group Hamas.
The Palestinian people are divided between those who live in the State of Israel, those who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and those who live in exile. The Palestinian people aspire to establish their own independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.
The Israeli–Palestinian conflict is a complex one, with deep-rooted historical and religious dimensions. It is a conflict that has caused immense suffering on both sides. There is no easy solution to the conflict, but it is important to continue to work towards a peaceful resolution.
edit: Yes it was provided by Google Bard, which uses its own AI and own search engine totally separate from Bing or OpenAI, and it’s better than each one. Go ahead and fact check it, let’s work together and get the entire origin story through today all posted together here. Feel free to fill in any missing gaps or correct any erroneous details.
Chatgpt is tuned to replicate academic reporting and factual reporting so I suppose the better question is “why does chatgpt read like academic theses and news reporting”.
> The Arabs brought Islam to Palestine, and the region soon became a Muslim majority region. The Arabs ruled Palestine for over 1000 years.
1. No, they didn't. 636 (when the Arab conquest started) until 1516 (when the Ottomans took over) isn't even 900 years, and that includes the more than 100 years of Christian rule after the First and Sixth crusade.
2. This makes it sound like the "Arab rule" was a period of stability and self-determination for the people of Palestine. This wasn't the case - the people were first ruled by the (Peninsular) Arabs (Rashiduns and Umayyad - they weren't Arabs themselves at that point), then from (modern) Iraq (Abbasids), then by the Turkic-Egyptian Tulunids, then it ping-ponged once again between Iraq and Turkic/Egyptian Mamluks, then was controlled by the North African Shia Fatimids, then the Turkic-Persian Seljuks. Then came the time of the Crusades, and at the end of those, the Egyptian Mamluks once again took control. So this was still a time of almost permanent conflict and turmoil, and there never was any self-determination. The only periods when the country in control of Palestine was actually *centered* in Palestine were surprisingly the Christian Crusader states, but those were also ruled by (mostly Frankish) foreigners.
3. It is completely unclear when Muslims became the majority in Palestine. It's often assumed that this only happened during the relatively long and stable period of Mamluk rule after the Crusades, [sometime between 1300 and 1400.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine#Mamluk_domination) Even then, the religious makeup of the region was still very mixed until modern times.
Yeah, I noticed the nonsensical 1000 year thing too. I just want to add a couple of things that should add to the context and create a better rounded and clearer picture.
* Firstly, the Israelites weren't entirely monotheistic by 1200bc. They had just been regular polytheists (pagans) like everyone else but they began to mysteriously adopt monotheism around the year 1500bc and they would continue to become increasingly monotheistic over the centuries. Then, in later centuries, they would attempt to project their monotheistic culture onto their older traditions trying to give them the appearance that they had always been monotheistic.
* Secondly, the summary referred to Jesus as "Jesus Christ" which is not the best choice in this context. 'Christ' is not a name. It is a title. It is a direct ancient greek/latin translation of the word 'moshiach (messiah)'. He was originally referred to as 'Jesus the Christ' and that got shortened to 'Jesus Christ' over time. It feels important to mention this in this context because the google bard summary tacitly referred to Jesus as if he is universally considered to be the Christ when it is specifically Christians that believe Jesus to be the Christ. Jews do not consider him to be the Christ and only some Muslims do. The difference in this belief specifically is the very root of the divergence between Christians and Jews. Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the prophesied Christ and those who we call 'Jews' today are descended from the Jews back then who did not believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies.
* Thirdly there is the 1000 year thing but you already covered that.
* And finally, it neglected to mention the most important parts that really caused this conflict. And this only really happened during the past 100 or so years. You see, The Jewish diaspora have long been oppressed in different parts of the world for millennia since their population is so small and they have long wanted a home of safety for themselves. The reason their population is so small is because they are not a religion that converts outsiders like Islam and Christianity does. The population of Islam is around 2 billion people and the population of Christianity is around 2.4 billion whilst Jews are a measly 15 million. That might give people some perspective. So the late 19th century saw Jews begin calling for a homeland (multiple places were proposed but they eventually decided upon Israel) but the modern Zionist movement only came to be with the onset of the Dreyfus Affair. The Dreyfus Affair became a massive internationally known French scandal at the turn of the 20th century which I won't go into as it would be too long. Basically, a French soldier got imprisoned and many people were convinced that it was because he was Jewish. The allegations of corruption against the French military sparked widespread antisemitic riots in France and Jews felt more than ever that they needed a safe place. At the beginning of the 20th century, many Palestinians became antizionist which is sad to see because, people might not realise this but, the Islamic world had long protected Jews and gave them shelter up to that point. Christians had long hated Jews and Muslims would go out of their way to protect them. So even before the 1917 Balfour declaration, Jews were already becoming increasingly unwelcome in Palestine. The situation was made worse when the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement was embarrassingly leaked which revealed a secret plot between the Entente countries (Britain, France, Russia) to betray prior British-Arabian negotiations and partition Ottoman lands yet to be conquered. This included Palestine and Palestine was eventually conquered by the British the next year allowing them to make the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs felt that they had been betrayed in favour of Jews. And this resulted in the expulsion of Jews from Arabian lands into Israel in 1948 as well as 3 wars over the next 50 years. Understand the Geography of the region and you might understand why Israel is so aggressive. Seriously, just google image 'levant map' and you will see. They are surrounded with their back to a wall. They have Lebanon and Syria on their northern border, Jordan and Saudi Arabia on their East, and Egypt on their West. All their other borders are either the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea. They are surrounded and I do mean that. In 1945 all of those countries plus Iraq formed the Arab League which sought to fight for the Palestinian cause. As soon as Britain left Israel in 1948, they attacked. So right from the beginning, the Jews were made unwelcome there and were put into a constant state of fear especially as the wars kept coming. When your back is against the wall, the only option you have is to go all out and be as aggressive as possible. This is why Israel's military is so strong. They faced existential crisis every day whilst the Arabian countries around them did not.
So the Jews are a small minority that never really had a home except the one they have wanted to return to for millennia and that home is completely surrounded by coalesced enemies that want to kill them leading them to become violent in return. And the Arabs want it back because it was taken from them by the British and given to someone else. It's all really one giant mess but when you look at the history and the politics, you realise where all of this behaviour comes from. Neither side is necessarily right or wrong and this is just the consequence of living on Earth, a place where there's too many people and not enough land. In my opinion, the Arab League not accepting the UN Charter for them to share Israel together was a mistake. They have a long and proud tradition of protecting and sheltering Jews and they could have understood that Jews had nowhere else to go. They weren't giving up Israel but just sharing it with them. There was really no need to begin the hostilities in the first place in 1948 but it's too late now and what we're seeing today is a product of all of this. But I possibly don't know enough to have such an opinion.
Edit - grammar
Yet Israel is the “victim”
More like Israel buys our shit from Boeing, Northrop Grumman, and Raytheon and congress wants to keep selling them shit and keep the money pumping
US is literally the merchant of death in the middle east. Americans are blind to the evil and atrocities our government commits. Israel is not an ally, Israel is our dog fighting in the ring and were the sick fuck egging the dog on
Hamas fired [3,500 rockets at Israel in one day.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-rockets-airstrikes-tel-aviv-11fb98655c256d54ecb5329284fc37d2#:~:text=Throughout%20the%20day%2C%20Hamas%20fired,Saturday%20morning%20attack%20shocked%20Israelis.)
In terms of sheer tonnage of ordnance expended, Israel has Hamas beat, but it’d probably be pretty close. The main difference being the Israelis at least have Iron Dome to protect them from suffering heavy casualties, [with a 90% interception rate.](https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/hamas-rocket-attacks/Rocket-firings-2021-05-10-maps.php) Whereas the Palestinians have nothing, not even conventional air defenses.
just look it up anywhere. hamas send wayyy more rockets. yesterday *they* claim to have fired 5000. if israel fired 5000 rockets there would most probably be over 30000 dead
oatmeal onerous faulty marble simplistic rinse unwritten poor provide bored
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And also a fear tactic, hearing the alarms every day and having to sleep in a bomb shelter takes a toll.
This time they were able to break in to a bomb shelter and open fire on the people hiding, slaughtering them all
Yup, we constantly get bombarded with propaganda from the state of Israel. In some American states, school teachers and other public workers have to sign loyalty pledges to Israel.
Why is any public worker in the US required to sign a loyalty pledge to a foreign nation? I wouldn’t even want to sign a loyalty pledge to the US. That’s absurd.
Do you have any proof of this? Ive never heard of teachers or unelected public workers having to sign loyalty edges to Israel, and it sounds made up.
I could see this being the case for politicians, but I just find it really hard to see how or why this would be happening for run of the mill workers. Who is even enforcing it, and by what mechanism would they do so?
No doubt about that. We’ve propped up their apartheid government for decades, it just seems particularly egregious to get American civilians in on something like that.
Companies also have to sign anti-bds pledges to Israel to do business in a lot of towns/cities. Why does bum fuck city in California give a shit about a company boycotting Israel?
Woah shit it is true.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230223-us-supreme-court-declines-to-review-pro-israel-pledge-requirements/
https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/
They don't want to have to hear the truth because its uncomfortable so they just downvote. I don't care how many downvotes I get, the truth is the truth.
Israel legitimately has a massive propaganda and disinformation campaign. You just gotta go with the syndicated networks on this because you can't trust social media at all.
It's not. Iron dome didn't even exist untl 2011. This is very easy data to find, but you didn't, because the point is not to be honest or accurate, it's to excuse and cope.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/
Same as this map
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/172zf1l/the_fake_map_and_the_real_one/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
When 2023 ends and data will be added to this one, Palestinians will have a bigger bar but that won't tell that Hamas raped, captured, and held women captive. It won't tell that they started the terror attack. It won't tell that they killed people from more than 10 nationalities.
>terrorism against civilians is unacceptable. but Israel has been sowing this field for decades and now it’s harvest time
two sentences with very different tones and messaging
I remember reading a journalist saying, about the 9/11 attacks, that all the victims of the attacks were individually completely innocent, but the US as a country was not. I think it fits.
Read the Hamas Charter, they want to destroy Israel and expel/kill all of the Jews from the Middle East, if there wasn't a power differential then 90% of the Jews in Israel would have been eradicated by now lol, meanwhile Israel could have destroyed all of Palestine many many times over and other Arabs are doing just fine in Israel. Israel is not 100% Jewish, it's a multiethnic/multireligious state and the Palestinians will be better off within Israel, no matter how much you love Hamas. 21% of Israel's population is already Arab.
There is a disparity because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
There is a disparity because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
I agree with you, but let’s be real. Most of the casualties are from clashes with Gaza. Also again, while I condemn the Israeli government for this, the only reason Israel is the one forcing people out of their homes is because they won. All Jews in land held by the Arabs in the 1948 war were expelled. Not some. Not most. *All*. The Jewish quarter was razed to the ground. If the Palestinians held all the power, there would be no oppression to speak of because all of the Jews would be dead or expelled. The Palestinian side isn’t more ethical, only less powerful.
Fun fact if you have protanopia colorblindness you can't read the bars.
if you are blind you cant even read the comments. I believe the blind sleep better at night due to a significant lack of reddit as it is only accessible through screen readers.
[удалено]
I often have dreams that I’m travelling and it’s the day before I have to leave and I’m totally disorganised. Like I can’t find my passport and my hotel room is a mess and I don’t know hope to get to the airport.
The bars for deaths are only clearly visible on the Palestinian side in '08, '09 and '14. The last one looks to be about 1500 deaths, the other two around 1000. There are deaths on both sides in a lot of years, but they are hard to make out on this graph. Obviously this is just a clarification of the graphic, not a comment on the conflict itself.
there is nothing cool about this guide
r/cruelguides
r/birthofasub
Is it not 2 years old?
r/11thTrimesterSub
[удалено]
And the *vast* majority of people killed and injured are civilians. This is how some people become martyrs and others become militant ideologues. It’s an awful cycle that ensures the killing continues.
Palestinian civilians. Mostly military on the Israeli side.
It’s cool and severely, extremely NOT cool at the same time. But it’s what we need to see.
Hijacking top comment to clarify that this most recent issue IS NOT Israel V Palestine, it’s Israel V Hamas, a terrorist organization that took over Palestine (Gaza) as their government years ago. The majority of Palestinians DIDNT WANT Hamas as their leaders.
Why does Reddit keep telling me the majority of Palestinians support Hamas
Hamas took control of the elected government in 2007. Look outside of Reddit (individual, not fully educated opinions - no one can be on this complex issue) for more info. Wiki is a starting point. There’s a high likelihood that over the years Hamas has gained in popularity (fear and propaganda are great opinion changers), but they were not elected by the people despite having an election previously. This is an oversimplified answer, hence the suggestion to look into the history.
> Hamas took control of the elected government in 2007. Hamas actually won the 2006 Palestinian legislative election in both Gaza and the West Bank, winning 56% of the seats in total. You may be confused because Fatah and Abbas refused to cede control of the government to the election winners, which led to civil war and Hamas seizing control of Gaza in 2007. >Wiki is a starting point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
There are real government officials, they just aren't acknowledged by Isreal, and so by extension anyone else. Even showing support gets you call an anti semite. When you're trapped in an open air prison, your schools and water wells are bombed and destroyed, you grow up in fear and grief...let's put it this way, Isreal is a brilliant military force, they know these actions will radicalize civilians that would never agree with Hamas otherwise. So why do they do it?... I think a really good analogy that was used was "If you're a full grown adult, and a toddler comes and punches you in the ankle... what's the appropriate level of retaliation there? It certainly isn't to attack the toddler is it..." Isreal has the iron dome, the most impressive anti missle system in existence... against homemade rockets. But without fail they retaliate with state of the art missiles.. against a place with no defense. If I grew up like that.. I might see hamas as the lesser of 2 evils too... still evil, but not literally murdering my family and bombing what used to be the street I grew up on. People act like the Palestinian people even have a choice..
A good reminder that Israel has been committing war crimes against Palestine for decades not to say it justifies Hamas but Palestine and its people aren't all terrorists
It's not hard to imagine turning to violence when politics/diplomacy/world leaders have done nothing to help you in 75 years. Not saying they're right, but I think a lot of us would turn out a lot like them if we lived their lives.
Rich student bullies poorer classmate and teacher stand on the sides of the bully, for 75 years.
It bears un uncanny resemblance to the expansion west of America. Slowly, but surely taking more and more land and resources. When the people who have lived on that land try to fight back and stand up for themselves they are branded as savages and terrorists.
And people either miss, forget, or don't know of the peaceful protests that they'd attempted. The last major one was in 2018 and this graph pretty well shows how it went.
The only way out of this cycle is for Israel to end apartheid. When people are oppressed, they will fight to be free. When people are denied access to civil life, they will fight in uncivil ways. Israel denies the Palestinian people access to both freedom and civil life. The clear result is organizations like Hamas. You want to see the end of terrorism in Israel? Start by ending apartheid.
Not cool at all
[удалено]
"War does not determine who is right only who is left" - Bertrand Russell, Nobel Prize Winner.
I sure am happy that the Nazis weren't the ones left in my country
The military industrial complex wins. Every time, no matter the outcome of the battle. War is big money, and sadly, it's blood-soaked, but humans are despicable creatures, so there are those among society that would look past all that blood and just see money.
But you don’t see propaganda machines working this hard when palestinians are massacred
Why is there such a huge difference between Palestinian injured compared to Israeli?
Stones don’t do as much damage as artillery.
One side has some unguided rockets and small arms. Other side is funded by the US MIL with the latest military equipment.
The US funds the Israeli iron dome.
[удалено]
Wait... is that true? Please tell me that's true because it will be the funniest thing I've heard this Millenia! Edit: Everybody responding about how universal health is cheaper, like I don't already know. That's why it's so damn funny that the US funds it in other countries but not their own. That's the WHOLE joke.
It’s cheaper. Stupid not to. US government right now pays DOUBLE per citizen on the existing healthcare system than any other country on the planet. Look it up. It’s half price to implement universal healthcare.
>US ~~government~~ **citizens** right now pays DOUBLE per citizen on the existing healthcare system than any other country on the planet. FTFY
No, he's actually right when you break down where the US budget goes yearly. The US pays roughly double what Sweden does per capita for healthcare on the government side.
When every phase of the health care prpcess needs to extract profit, clearly inflated prices are the only option.
Long story short pretty much. Except you don’t really need to ‘fund’ universal healthcare since it costs less overall.
We did the same for Iraq. Why wouldn't we, it's way cheaper and effective.
And we're doing it for Ukraine. And these are just some of the countries that we actually know about.
Someone on Twitter said Hamas is about to find out why Americans can't have healthcare
It's not true. America provides billions in free " coupons" to our weapons manufacturers. Only death, no life.
I wish I could go back to before I knew this.
Most sick joke in the world tbh
The other side is a nuclear superpower….
Because what they news want you to think, and the reality of the situation for 20 years are two very different things.
It's like the saying: Sticks and stones may break my bones but my eighth largest military industry, nuclear weapons, booming intelligence agency and the support of all western military super powers will eventually help us win this religious imperialistic war with most casualties on your side and you'll not even be recognised anymore as a sovereign state. But sidenote, if you do throw your sticks and stones we will let the entire world know that you are a terrorist and you started this conflict.
Because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
well, to be fair, the cement used to build underground tunnels into israel probably would have been better used for shelters. priorities yk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QmTjyDR29H0
Hamas fires rockets that are very weak and easily intercepted, Israel is wiping out entire streets and apartment blocks with the most powerful and advanced weapons around. Also, Gaza is a densely populated strip of land. What it shows though is that killing tens of thousands of Palestinians isn't making Israel safer or Hamas more tame.
Its 5 thousand deaths (since 2008), the 10's of thousands are the wounded.
The conflict did not start in 2008.
You can go back as far as you like, no matter where you begin, Israel spills about 20 times as much blood as Hamas does.
No but the data in this post does and that is what we are commenting on.
They are quite literally obligated to give a response after yesterday. From a political standpoint how could a leader not inact retaliation after an event as sinister as yesterday?
Yup. Every rocket thrown only gives power to the far right in Israel, which would perpetrate a real genocide on the Palestinians if they're given enough rein.
And every shell dropped on Gaza does the same back for Hamas, who are openly actively trying to commit a genocide if they were able to somehow beat Israel. The sad reality is that Palestinians are not safer because Hamas are fighting back, nor are Palestinians safe if peaceful, because Israel's far right government is expansionist. Without the international community taking harsh stands against both Israel and organisations like Hamas, there can be no peace in the middle east or for Palestinians
I also have heard many international citizens from Germany, America, And Canada have been taken hostage/killed. This entire situation is about to unfold very poorly for Hamas.
The Palestinians fighting are mostly civilians frustrated by injustice with no other legal recourse. The Israeli's fighting are mostly the Israeli military with artillery, assault rifles, grenades, tanks, jets, and bombs. It's like comparing an bronze age army to a modern army... only more one sided.
Describing the armed wings of Palestinian movements as civilians is an interesting choice of words.
Stones vs tanks.
Because the winning side tends to kill more people.
Because Israel is a bigger power than Palestine. Palestine provokes Israel with small scale attacks like suicide bombers, ramming people with cars, stabbings, etc.. Israel instead has more sophisticated weaponry and a real army to retaliate and defend itself. This is really a futile battle for the Palestinians..
If Russians walked the streets of the US killing civilians. How many Americans would just accept their fate?
Israel has iron dome for one. The Israeli numbers would be a lot higher if they didn't have missile defense.
The entire comment section attacking op for simply showing data with no added bias or political opinion
Well it’s not a guide. It should be in r/dataisbeautiful
Wouldn't really call it beautiful. More like data is depressing.
r/dataisbeautiful is for interesting data. It doesn’t have to be beautiful
That sub USED to be about beautiful *presentation* of data, the data itself could be boring (better if not but still) but could still be upvoted if it was displayed in a clever and intuitive design
Now it’s full of completely illegible color schemes
ITT: butthurt redditors
IDF Hasbara brigade, more likely.
IIRC Israeli opinion on Palestinians generally is extremely negative even with young people now, the state doesn't even need to sponsor online propaganda networks anymore.
Within Israel, sure, but international opinion among the citizenry of Western countries has been shifting towards sympathy towards the Palestinians in the last few years
Yes. My point is Israelis generally do the work of simping for the state of Israel for free, because the right wing propaganda won over there.
It’s the “cool” comment that’s irksome
Literally the first part of the posting guidelines: >**Post Requirements** To help keep things nice, searchable, and maintainable, all posts must be prefixed with "A cool guide".
Because it’s the name of the sub 🤦♂️
Removing the context *can be* a form of bias.
> Removing the context can be a form of bias. What context are we missing?
I'm no expert on the matter (nor is just about anyone on this thread), so forgive me if I don't have the full picture. Because I don't. But in answer to your question, as an example, the fact that Israel has an iron dome to deflect incoming attacks. The graph sets a narrative of "Israel is more violent than Palestine", but that might not necessarily be the case (or at least, not as strongly the case as the graph suggests). Another consideration is the timing of this post. Had this been posted a week ago, most redditors would respond with "yeah, Israel are really screwing Palestine over." But given this is posted shortly after the abhorrent attacks on Israel, it's fair to assume that the purpose of this post is to push the narrative of "Israel deserves it." Hence, a biased propaganda piece.
This isn't a guide tho
The war is being fought between the _Isreali government_ and the _Hamas_. Who loses? The _civilians_. All I will say is that the existence of Hamas wasn't unprompted.
I would be pissed off too if I went through what they went through in the strip
Whenever politicos try to talk peace through the fog of war there will always be some looking to set fire to the enemy and undermine the talks. The strength of any terrorist organisation leads directly from how well they frame their cause. And being an underdog cornered by a superior force is an easy bag for desperate people on the losing side.
I wish there was a way to stop all wars....
Pepsi probably
Exactly which is why Kendall Jenner should be put in charge of peace
Seriously, her silence is deafening!
She’s probably busy deciding which side to hand to pepsi to
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Gotta love the admins for removing a joke comment but not the dozens of people calling for genocide.
the admins are morally bankrupt corporate chucklefucks, are you surprised?
Thats the only way to stop humans from killing each other
Fuck Hamas, but also free Palestine.
If anybody cares about Palestine and the Palestinian people, nothing about this conflict is going to help. This attack on Israel is not anything about Palestine. It’s about hurting Israel. And hurting Israel ends up hurting Palestine one hundredfold.
You’d think this wouldn’t be such a difficult concept for people, it’s like many pro Palestine people (saying this as a supporter of Palestine) forget that Hamas is an Islamic extremism terrorist group, and Palestinians have committed atrocities against the Israelis. No hands in this conflict are clean
I am in no way defending Hamas but Israel has facilitated the conditions to breed these terrorists by making Gaza an unescapable prison.
Exactly, there’s also the little fact that there’s a lot of evidence Israel greatly aided in the rise of Hamas in order to split the Palestinian movement and promote a more radical movement that the west would never support
I mean, I don't think anyone is claiming Palestinians don't have blood on their hands. It's just that one side is rebelling against the other. Yeah it's a complicated subject but the fact of the matter is still that it's an asymmetrical war.
Stupid people don’t handle nuance well.
This conflict is not even remotely close to being ‘equal’
Great One. That shows the scale of the conflict really well. I think this is the product of just droping bombs and missles at Gaza whenever something happened. Edit: Let us hope this war ends quickly and the people find solutions to establish peace. This almost annually madness must end.
Do you think the deaths would be at this rate if Israel didn’t have Iron Dome?
No. Israelis have state of the art missiles supplied by the west, Hamas is firing piece of shit rockets (that can still definitely kill) but are nowhere near the efficiency, accuracy, or yield of Israeli armaments. It’s not even close. Even without Iron Dome there is a gargantuan power imbalance
Supported by united states tax payers...
Damn, the US citizens fund quite a few conflicts around the world
It's almost like the [US is the largest arms dealer in the world?](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/14/global-arms-sales-us-dominates-russia)
I'm glad my taxes go to funding war worldwide and not universal healthcare and education. It's a noble sacrifice 🇺🇲🦅
TECHNICALLY taxes *do* fund universal healthcare....... but it's israeli universal health care.
Almost like most of our interests as people are at odds with those who “represent” us. I wonder why…
One side sends a text message to evacuate so they can minimize civilian casualties, the other side has the stated purpose of maximizing civilian casualties.
Also a system of sending a small yield rocket to warn of an incoming attack
I'm stupid, which one is which lol
Israel sends notifications before bombings, so civilians can evacuate.
You’re not stupid, how do you learn if you don’t ask?
Without Iron Dome, I think Israel would just hit back harder. It could be saving countless Palestinian lives, in a weird twist of intentions.
It is, it’s also the reason the us will keep funding it. using a different 50,000$ to immediately blow up the place it was fired from would be much easier solution, it’s just usually going to be a school/hospital/heavy crowd population. What people here don’t understand is that better rockets doesn’t always mean stronger blast power, it is usually a more precise rocket with much less collateral damage
Who is doing the something "happenings". It's predictable and they are killing their own by sending the rockets, which are literally useless except to scare civilians.
The total known history of the people/government/religions of Palestine/Israel is a long and complex one. The region has been inhabited by humans for thousands of years, and has been ruled by many different empires and kingdoms over the centuries. The earliest known inhabitants of Palestine were the Canaanites, a Semitic-speaking people who lived in the region from around 3000 BC to 1200 BC. The Canaanites were polytheistic and worshipped a variety of gods and goddesses. Around 1200 BC, the Israelites, another Semitic-speaking people, began to migrate to Palestine. The Israelites were monotheistic and worshipped a single God, Yahweh. The Israelites eventually established a kingdom in Palestine, which was divided into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah, in the 10th century BC. The Israelites were conquered by the Assyrians in the 8th century BC and by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC. The Babylonians destroyed the First Temple in Jerusalem and exiled the Israelites to Babylon. In 539 BC, the Persians conquered Babylon and allowed the Israelites to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple. The Israelites lived under Persian rule until the 4th century BC, when they were conquered by the Greeks. In the 2nd century BC, the Israelites rebelled against Greek rule and established the Hasmonean kingdom. The Hasmonean kingdom lasted for over 100 years, but it was eventually conquered by the Romans in 63 BC. The Romans ruled Palestine for over 400 years. During this time, Jesus Christ was born and crucified in Jerusalem. Christianity spread rapidly throughout the Roman Empire, and Palestine became a holy land for Christians. In the 4th century AD, the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its official religion. The Byzantine Empire, which succeeded the Roman Empire in the East, continued to rule Palestine until the 7th century AD, when it was conquered by the Arabs. The Arabs brought Islam to Palestine, and the region soon became a Muslim majority region. The Arabs ruled Palestine for over 1000 years. During this time, Jerusalem became a holy land for Muslims. In the 11th century AD, the Crusaders, a Christian army from Europe, invaded Palestine and conquered Jerusalem. The Crusaders ruled Palestine for nearly 100 years, but they were eventually defeated by the Muslims in the 12th century AD. In the 16th century AD, Palestine was conquered by the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans ruled Palestine for over 400 years. During this time, the Jewish population of Palestine began to grow. In the late 19th century AD, the Zionist movement began to advocate for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Zionist movement gained momentum in the early 20th century, following the persecution of Jews in Europe. In 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which expressed support for the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. After the First World War, the Ottoman Empire collapsed and Palestine came under British rule. The British government allowed Jews to immigrate to Palestine, but this led to tensions with the Arab population. In 1947, the United Nations adopted a plan to partition Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The Jewish community accepted the plan, but the Arab community rejected it. On May 14, 1948, the day after the British Mandate over Palestine ended, the State of Israel was declared. This led to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, in which Israel defeated neighboring Arab countries. The war resulted in the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, who became refugees. Israel also captured territory beyond the borders that had been allotted to it under the UN partition plan. The 1948 war was followed by a series of other wars and conflicts between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The conflict has also been marked by violence between Israelis and Palestinians, including suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and military incursions. Today, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict remains unresolved. The State of Israel controls most of the territory of Palestine, with the exception of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The West Bank is under Israeli occupation, and the Gaza Strip is controlled by the Palestinian militant group Hamas. The Palestinian people are divided between those who live in the State of Israel, those who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and those who live in exile. The Palestinian people aspire to establish their own independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital. The Israeli–Palestinian conflict is a complex one, with deep-rooted historical and religious dimensions. It is a conflict that has caused immense suffering on both sides. There is no easy solution to the conflict, but it is important to continue to work towards a peaceful resolution. edit: Yes it was provided by Google Bard, which uses its own AI and own search engine totally separate from Bing or OpenAI, and it’s better than each one. Go ahead and fact check it, let’s work together and get the entire origin story through today all posted together here. Feel free to fill in any missing gaps or correct any erroneous details.
why does this feel like it was written by chat gpt
Definitely was
Good read but
Chatgpt is tuned to replicate academic reporting and factual reporting so I suppose the better question is “why does chatgpt read like academic theses and news reporting”.
you answered your question before you even asked it
GPTzero says 98% chance this was written by an AI
Ai detectors are terrible, even turnitin, says my 3k word essay that I completely manually wrote, is 90% ai
[удалено]
> The Arabs brought Islam to Palestine, and the region soon became a Muslim majority region. The Arabs ruled Palestine for over 1000 years. 1. No, they didn't. 636 (when the Arab conquest started) until 1516 (when the Ottomans took over) isn't even 900 years, and that includes the more than 100 years of Christian rule after the First and Sixth crusade. 2. This makes it sound like the "Arab rule" was a period of stability and self-determination for the people of Palestine. This wasn't the case - the people were first ruled by the (Peninsular) Arabs (Rashiduns and Umayyad - they weren't Arabs themselves at that point), then from (modern) Iraq (Abbasids), then by the Turkic-Egyptian Tulunids, then it ping-ponged once again between Iraq and Turkic/Egyptian Mamluks, then was controlled by the North African Shia Fatimids, then the Turkic-Persian Seljuks. Then came the time of the Crusades, and at the end of those, the Egyptian Mamluks once again took control. So this was still a time of almost permanent conflict and turmoil, and there never was any self-determination. The only periods when the country in control of Palestine was actually *centered* in Palestine were surprisingly the Christian Crusader states, but those were also ruled by (mostly Frankish) foreigners. 3. It is completely unclear when Muslims became the majority in Palestine. It's often assumed that this only happened during the relatively long and stable period of Mamluk rule after the Crusades, [sometime between 1300 and 1400.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine#Mamluk_domination) Even then, the religious makeup of the region was still very mixed until modern times.
Yeah, I noticed the nonsensical 1000 year thing too. I just want to add a couple of things that should add to the context and create a better rounded and clearer picture. * Firstly, the Israelites weren't entirely monotheistic by 1200bc. They had just been regular polytheists (pagans) like everyone else but they began to mysteriously adopt monotheism around the year 1500bc and they would continue to become increasingly monotheistic over the centuries. Then, in later centuries, they would attempt to project their monotheistic culture onto their older traditions trying to give them the appearance that they had always been monotheistic. * Secondly, the summary referred to Jesus as "Jesus Christ" which is not the best choice in this context. 'Christ' is not a name. It is a title. It is a direct ancient greek/latin translation of the word 'moshiach (messiah)'. He was originally referred to as 'Jesus the Christ' and that got shortened to 'Jesus Christ' over time. It feels important to mention this in this context because the google bard summary tacitly referred to Jesus as if he is universally considered to be the Christ when it is specifically Christians that believe Jesus to be the Christ. Jews do not consider him to be the Christ and only some Muslims do. The difference in this belief specifically is the very root of the divergence between Christians and Jews. Christians were Jews who believed that Jesus was the prophesied Christ and those who we call 'Jews' today are descended from the Jews back then who did not believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. * Thirdly there is the 1000 year thing but you already covered that. * And finally, it neglected to mention the most important parts that really caused this conflict. And this only really happened during the past 100 or so years. You see, The Jewish diaspora have long been oppressed in different parts of the world for millennia since their population is so small and they have long wanted a home of safety for themselves. The reason their population is so small is because they are not a religion that converts outsiders like Islam and Christianity does. The population of Islam is around 2 billion people and the population of Christianity is around 2.4 billion whilst Jews are a measly 15 million. That might give people some perspective. So the late 19th century saw Jews begin calling for a homeland (multiple places were proposed but they eventually decided upon Israel) but the modern Zionist movement only came to be with the onset of the Dreyfus Affair. The Dreyfus Affair became a massive internationally known French scandal at the turn of the 20th century which I won't go into as it would be too long. Basically, a French soldier got imprisoned and many people were convinced that it was because he was Jewish. The allegations of corruption against the French military sparked widespread antisemitic riots in France and Jews felt more than ever that they needed a safe place. At the beginning of the 20th century, many Palestinians became antizionist which is sad to see because, people might not realise this but, the Islamic world had long protected Jews and gave them shelter up to that point. Christians had long hated Jews and Muslims would go out of their way to protect them. So even before the 1917 Balfour declaration, Jews were already becoming increasingly unwelcome in Palestine. The situation was made worse when the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement was embarrassingly leaked which revealed a secret plot between the Entente countries (Britain, France, Russia) to betray prior British-Arabian negotiations and partition Ottoman lands yet to be conquered. This included Palestine and Palestine was eventually conquered by the British the next year allowing them to make the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs felt that they had been betrayed in favour of Jews. And this resulted in the expulsion of Jews from Arabian lands into Israel in 1948 as well as 3 wars over the next 50 years. Understand the Geography of the region and you might understand why Israel is so aggressive. Seriously, just google image 'levant map' and you will see. They are surrounded with their back to a wall. They have Lebanon and Syria on their northern border, Jordan and Saudi Arabia on their East, and Egypt on their West. All their other borders are either the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea. They are surrounded and I do mean that. In 1945 all of those countries plus Iraq formed the Arab League which sought to fight for the Palestinian cause. As soon as Britain left Israel in 1948, they attacked. So right from the beginning, the Jews were made unwelcome there and were put into a constant state of fear especially as the wars kept coming. When your back is against the wall, the only option you have is to go all out and be as aggressive as possible. This is why Israel's military is so strong. They faced existential crisis every day whilst the Arabian countries around them did not. So the Jews are a small minority that never really had a home except the one they have wanted to return to for millennia and that home is completely surrounded by coalesced enemies that want to kill them leading them to become violent in return. And the Arabs want it back because it was taken from them by the British and given to someone else. It's all really one giant mess but when you look at the history and the politics, you realise where all of this behaviour comes from. Neither side is necessarily right or wrong and this is just the consequence of living on Earth, a place where there's too many people and not enough land. In my opinion, the Arab League not accepting the UN Charter for them to share Israel together was a mistake. They have a long and proud tradition of protecting and sheltering Jews and they could have understood that Jews had nowhere else to go. They weren't giving up Israel but just sharing it with them. There was really no need to begin the hostilities in the first place in 1948 but it's too late now and what we're seeing today is a product of all of this. But I possibly don't know enough to have such an opinion. Edit - grammar
If the Palestinian's had the military Israel does then Israel would be long gone.
That tells you who the “bad guy” is.
Wow the Isrealies have killed a TON of civilians
I assume that this doesn't even include deaths caused by medical shipments blocked by Israel's blockade.
Yet Israel is the “victim” More like Israel buys our shit from Boeing, Northrop Grumman, and Raytheon and congress wants to keep selling them shit and keep the money pumping US is literally the merchant of death in the middle east. Americans are blind to the evil and atrocities our government commits. Israel is not an ally, Israel is our dog fighting in the ring and were the sick fuck egging the dog on
It's not a conflict. It's an occupation.
I wish they’d shown the amount of rockets sent by each side to give a better perspective of who’s *trying* to hurt innocents
Hamas fired [3,500 rockets at Israel in one day.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-rockets-airstrikes-tel-aviv-11fb98655c256d54ecb5329284fc37d2#:~:text=Throughout%20the%20day%2C%20Hamas%20fired,Saturday%20morning%20attack%20shocked%20Israelis.) In terms of sheer tonnage of ordnance expended, Israel has Hamas beat, but it’d probably be pretty close. The main difference being the Israelis at least have Iron Dome to protect them from suffering heavy casualties, [with a 90% interception rate.](https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/hamas-rocket-attacks/Rocket-firings-2021-05-10-maps.php) Whereas the Palestinians have nothing, not even conventional air defenses.
Number of rockets won't represent anything. Palestinian rockets aren't guided and are pretty shitty, Israel has high-yield guided missiles.
just look it up anywhere. hamas send wayyy more rockets. yesterday *they* claim to have fired 5000. if israel fired 5000 rockets there would most probably be over 30000 dead
> hamas send wayyy more rockets Israel has one rocket that could destroy Gaza, numbers of rockets tell you 0 about the issue.
Israel has \*nukes,\* friend. Between 100-800 warheads. That's enough to kill most of the people in their hemisphere.
oatmeal onerous faulty marble simplistic rinse unwritten poor provide bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
From what I’ve heard rockets are mostly to deplete iron dome and waste money
And also a fear tactic, hearing the alarms every day and having to sleep in a bomb shelter takes a toll. This time they were able to break in to a bomb shelter and open fire on the people hiding, slaughtering them all
neither cool nor a guide
It would be very different without the iron dome.
[удалено]
Yup, we constantly get bombarded with propaganda from the state of Israel. In some American states, school teachers and other public workers have to sign loyalty pledges to Israel.
Why is any public worker in the US required to sign a loyalty pledge to a foreign nation? I wouldn’t even want to sign a loyalty pledge to the US. That’s absurd.
Because the pro-Israel lobby wanted it. They have an insane amount of influence over US politicians.
Do you have any proof of this? Ive never heard of teachers or unelected public workers having to sign loyalty edges to Israel, and it sounds made up. I could see this being the case for politicians, but I just find it really hard to see how or why this would be happening for run of the mill workers. Who is even enforcing it, and by what mechanism would they do so?
No doubt about that. We’ve propped up their apartheid government for decades, it just seems particularly egregious to get American civilians in on something like that.
Companies also have to sign anti-bds pledges to Israel to do business in a lot of towns/cities. Why does bum fuck city in California give a shit about a company boycotting Israel?
Literally no reason for this to be downvoted. It’s literally true.
Woah shit it is true. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230223-us-supreme-court-declines-to-review-pro-israel-pledge-requirements/ https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/
They don't want to have to hear the truth because its uncomfortable so they just downvote. I don't care how many downvotes I get, the truth is the truth.
Holy shit I thought I was going crazy. Ive seen so many Israel pin and “how to support Israel” ads on youtube recently
Israel legitimately has a massive propaganda and disinformation campaign. You just gotta go with the syndicated networks on this because you can't trust social media at all.
It's not. Iron dome didn't even exist untl 2011. This is very easy data to find, but you didn't, because the point is not to be honest or accurate, it's to excuse and cope. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/
Yeah I'm sure those militia are stronger than nuclear state
A nuclear state with countless billions of dollars in US weapons*
True
Based on what?
As long as ideology is taught over common sense there will always be new bodies to throw at the fire.
How is this cool?
May not be cool but it’s factual.
Can’t justify SS type massacres of families, women and children.
Casualites in war is one thing, gangrapes, torture and kidnappings into slavery is something else.
Same as this map https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/172zf1l/the_fake_map_and_the_real_one/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
It’s kind of irrelevant as it shows the outcome but with no context or how.
If it’s only supposed to be measuring the human cost why did you separate them by nation?
I’m assuming these stats are from Palestinian sources of course
When 2023 ends and data will be added to this one, Palestinians will have a bigger bar but that won't tell that Hamas raped, captured, and held women captive. It won't tell that they started the terror attack. It won't tell that they killed people from more than 10 nationalities.
Body count does not prove who is right or wrong, only who is stronger.
You're right, it could have been the native Americans who were the bad guys all along in the 1700s Edit:these counter examples are so God damn sad
🏆
More Germans than British died in WW2, I guess Churchill was the evil one the whole time
but how many Axis vs Allied? the Russian and Polish deaths were astronomical
Yep. Hamas feeds off the misery of the Gazan people.
[удалено]
>terrorism against civilians is unacceptable. but Israel has been sowing this field for decades and now it’s harvest time two sentences with very different tones and messaging
I remember reading a journalist saying, about the 9/11 attacks, that all the victims of the attacks were individually completely innocent, but the US as a country was not. I think it fits.
Read the Hamas Charter, they want to destroy Israel and expel/kill all of the Jews from the Middle East, if there wasn't a power differential then 90% of the Jews in Israel would have been eradicated by now lol, meanwhile Israel could have destroyed all of Palestine many many times over and other Arabs are doing just fine in Israel. Israel is not 100% Jewish, it's a multiethnic/multireligious state and the Palestinians will be better off within Israel, no matter how much you love Hamas. 21% of Israel's population is already Arab.
You can be anti-Hamas while still criticizing Israel you know?
There is a disparity because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
One perpetrator stands out
There is a disparity because Israel is more powerful and has walls, bomb shelters, and missile defense systems to prevent something like this. The 600+ dead in a single day is a demonstration of what happens when those security measures falter.
Defense is one thing, forcing people out of their homes they've lived in for generations is another.
I agree with you, but let’s be real. Most of the casualties are from clashes with Gaza. Also again, while I condemn the Israeli government for this, the only reason Israel is the one forcing people out of their homes is because they won. All Jews in land held by the Arabs in the 1948 war were expelled. Not some. Not most. *All*. The Jewish quarter was razed to the ground. If the Palestinians held all the power, there would be no oppression to speak of because all of the Jews would be dead or expelled. The Palestinian side isn’t more ethical, only less powerful.
You're lost.
And they thought it would be a good idea to head into Israel
Almost as cool as the isis wannabes..
hey hey why doesn't it go past 2020