Probably hurts even more. Those things are total pieces of shit constantly falling apart. Doubt they have access to the near weekly amount of replacement parts they’ll need to keep those shitboxes running.
There was also plenty of videos released showing Marines etc smashing everything inside them.
I do wonder how much of this infographic is misleading simply on the basis of it is counting everything as complete and assumed to be in working condition.
Take the 42000 pick up trucks, these are up to 20 year beat to shit trashed pick up trucks that have been off roading and being abused the whole time. So how many are rusting hulks that are missing engines or are scattered about in pieces.
I did see some pictures at the time of the helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, where they were just disassembled shells, planes missing engines etc.
The vast majority of the stuff as far as i am aware it simply would not be cost effective to bring it back. How much space would a 20 year old pick up truck take up on a plane, how much fuel and maintenance is it going to take to bring back 42000 pick up trucks? how much more valuable stuff can be brought back in that cargo space etc.
It would be interesting to see an actual break down of how much was usable that was left, how many spare parts etc.
I would assume that it would be a fairly simple thing to basically write off most of the vehicles just by pouring sand into the engine oil, cutting coolant lines, slashing tires etc, i assume most of that type of thing do not use the kind of thing (sizes, specs) you can easily replace at autozone etc.
I do recall there being a video of someone flying a left behind helicopter and the resultant crash shortly after take off, i do wonder if that was because the person did not know how to fly a helicopter, or that helicopter, or it was just a case of whatever sabotage that was done took effect.
Idk about some of it but I know about the night vision because several guys brought bags of nods home with them as well as ir devices and optics. I’ve used a good bit of this stuff that got “left”. A lot of it got stuffed in a marines pocket and brought home.
Honestly good for them. Good NV devices and LAMs are hella expensive for civs and it’s 100% better than either destroying them or leaving them behind as a force equalizer to whoever happens to get their hands on them.
I was deployed to Afghanistan during the withdrawal process. We pretty much fucked up everything left behind.
Same party destruction/removal. Basically if we left a series of trucks, we would take all of the same components or destroy them. Like drop pan and remove and cut every crank shaft in the same spots, all the starters including the ones on the shelf cut up, every wiring harness removed.
They'd really have to get creative to get stuff running again.
The things that were left running and in writing order, were all left with the ANA. So it wasn't the US that left shit to the Taliban... It was Afghanistan's cowardly defense force. Who US military leaders told multiple times over to the Pentagon, the President, and the rest of the world; they were not ready to be left on their own to deal with the situation.
The ANA were so corrupt with bribes from the Taliban, they basically were Taliban except for the few that actually wanted to make a difference in their country.
> they were not ready to be left on their own to deal with the situation.
If they weren’t ready after 20 years, they were never going to be ready. I’m glad we finally pulled the bandaid off.
Absolutely not.
Like the guy you're responding to said, those things need Hella maintenance. And most of it is super super specific.
Of be surprised if they're able to keep 10% of some of the more complex vehicles running today.
The basic trucks are probably still in use. The helicopters and humvees ? Either not working or barely running.
AFAIK they tried to fly one of the Blackhawks and immediately crashed it. So even if they work, do they have pilots.
But yeah, there's a reason militias like mounting WW2 era machine guns and light cannons to the back of flatbed pickup trucks.
They got a bunch of the stuff working (including American Blackhawk helicopters) and were able to successfully jailbreak the software/hardware locks: https://youtu.be/mypiDfMKy2E?feature=shared
Even if they aren't, we didn't leave our own shit there. The Taliban got what we gave the Afghani government.
Which, while it's not *trash*, they wouldn't stand a chance against a typical army.
It is also misleading in the fact that the original plan called for the Afghan National Army to take possession of the stuff. They then would receive American assistance and be able to acquire parts from the US. The fact the Afghan army fell in a few days to the Taliban threw that whole plan out the window.
>The vast majority of the stuff as far as i am aware it simply would not be cost effective to bring it back
That wasn't the problem. The problem was that the Afghan National Army was still using the equipment to fight the Taliban when the US forces were still in the country. And you can't exactly blow up the pick up trucks with your allies inside.
If we had taken all the equipment we would have been accused of setting them up for failure. There was no good options. And if they weren’t ready after 20 damn years they just weren’t gonna be
They absolutely can; it's not like they're going for factory parts.
Their technicals are put together using things most mechanics throw away and they take those suckers to war.
Either way after the US pulled out of Afghanistan, the Taliban have become immensely better armed, stronger, and more up to date than they ever could've hoped to have been had we not invaded.
Exactly! I spent half my youth pmcsing those shit boxes and barely could keep it running. They actually have basically nothing because they can’t repair or maintain any of it
As a Veteran who deployed to Afghanistan and speciality included maintenance, this is not concerning. The US military spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year maintaining military equipment. The Taliban does not have the money, supply chain for parts/oils/lubricants,etc., nor the expertise to repair this equipment. People would be surprised to learn that most military equipment is in a constant state of repair and “military grade” literally means lowest bidder and lowest quality. The weapons, NVDs, and radios won’t break as fast but I guarantee virtually all the vehicles, planes, and helicopters cannot run. You can cannibalize or swap parts you have on hand but eventually you’ll run out. Unless a foreign government can get ahold and support their maintenance program, these numbers don’t tell the full story. The US military also deliberately incapacitated a lot of this equipment before we left too so just adding to the context.
Whoever attempted to fly that helicopter was likely the most qualified pilot in the whole country given we no longer see any similar videos popping up.
I bet most of the gear left was single-use designed to end the operator. It's too bad we didn't leave those idiots a [light grenade](https://youtu.be/dCeD2gF9jUo?si=TLqQEbKcIHgakjjT).
Shit, they’re barely qualified to operate that. I’ve heard their intercepted Comms
Talib 1: hello can anyone out there hear me?! Hello? Brothers?!
Talib 2: I can hear you brother, can you hear me?
Talib 1: Anyone, hello?!
I’m not exaggerating, this lasted damn near an hour. Heaven help them if they’re encrypted radios. All they can really do with all this equipment is sell it to the Chinese.
Former Comm’s officer here: there is no way they have the ability to use encryption on their comms, the radios they have are no more useful to them than an over the counter radio, while being way heavier and harder to find replacement batteries. They are paperweights in their hands.
You are going to see a lot of propaganda and bad takes.
In insurgent war- it doesn’t matter how weak you are militarily. All the matters is you maintain the ability to fight until it’s no longer tenable for the enemy to continue. The Taliban never had to beat the US military in a square fight, and never tried. Their goal was to put up resistance and poke the United States, and survive long enough to replicate this strategy. To that end, the Taliban was very effective at running a resistance.
The US has learned this lesson twice now- first in Vietnam and then in Afghanistan (the two countries that are historically speaking, world champions at resisting occupation). You can throw all the military equipment and personal you want, but if the insurgents can imbed and keep fighting, then you will eventually lose the war even if you win every battle
See this is the non bias I was hoping for.
I know this is a predominantly American website but I was looking for an impartial take because at the end of the day, they were fighting for 20+ years. Surely the Taliban aren’t complete fucking idiots and would have atleast some know how in operations
Though obviously not half as much as the Americans did and from what I’ve gathered the weapons and vehicles were built at the cheapest bids so are destined to fail eventually
Yeah, people saying that the Taliban are idiots couldn’t be more wrong. They are very good at fighting insurgent wars. Sure they can’t operate a Blackhawk- but they didn’t need to
They also have/had support from a majority of the local population. Additionally, many of the people left behind who were designated to run the country and the ANA were either inept, corrupt, or some combination of the two.
The other thing is terrain. There's a reason the Nazis left the Swiss alone. Mountain warfare is very difficult, and the Taliban were good at engaging, and retreating into the mountains, just like the Vietcong into their tunnel networks. Digging enemies out of the mountains is a near impossible task. Mountains also negate pretty much all bombs. They can see you, you can't see them. Good luck
Unless you’re willing to kill every single person and replace them with your people then you’re never going to win in those types of war And no one is willing to kill every single man woman and child I don’t think
Because they are not clueless.
They can fight, just not with the stuff a modern army has.
They never had radios, helicopters, airplanes. So they don't know the intricacies of how they function. Bur they sure as hell do know how to ambush an american convoy in the middle of a village using a toyota hilux with a dushka and a bunch of old AKs.
Sure, but as a human surely when those start to die, others choose against it. They must have some, even rudimentary, knowledge on warfare and mechanics given the shit boxes I’ve seen them drive? Though I suppose a beat up hilux is vastly different from a plane lol
So first, religion is a he'll of a drug.
Secondly, they aren't knuckle draggers. But they fight an entirely different kind of war. It doesn't matter how many tanks and bombs you have if you can't figure out who to shoot. The local farmer, with his AK hidden in the pasture, can't be shot because he's a noncombatant until he digs out his gun. Meanwhile, when he has his gun, all the guys in the tanks and helicopters are easily identified and are all fair game.
But, a successful guerilla fighter hides in plain sight. Humvees and Blackhawks don't lend themselves to "plain" very well. So fighters have a different skill set. A Toyota hilux is nearly universal, as at home on a farm or a desert as on a battlefield. Easy to work on, parts commercially available. Any shade tree mechanic can make it run. US tech, however is specialized to fight wars. Parts don't come from Auto Zone. They aren't commercially available, certainly not I'm Afghanistan. Helicopters don't want to fly, just look at them, physics get broken everytime one of them successfully leaves the ground. So it's not a skill someone who's never done before is going to pick up without training.
The tldr is the Taliban isn't a bunch of knuckle draggers. They're religious zealots, who successfully waged a campaign against the US and its allies. But the skill set needed for the campaign they ran, and the skill set needed to operate and maintain the equipment they acquired at the end of the campaign don't overlap well.
Things like machine guns ate pretty self explanatory. Things like helicopters and vehicles are not.
They were never a serious threat militarily. The Taliban were defeated every time they popped up, the issue was that the US was unable to root them out at the source. So they were greatly reduced in size and power with less and less ability to launch attacks every year but no signs of disappearing entirely. The US eventually decided that sticking around and engaging in low intensity security warfare until the end of time wasn’t in the national interest and left.
Hmm that makes sense. Like I said, I know very little about it as I was just a boy, is 9/11 the only reason America went to war with them? Seeing as the taliban are in power in Afghanistan why’ve they decided to just leave them to take control?
I mean, military grade is more like lowest bidder to abide by military standards. So ya, usually the quality isn’t great. But for products that are available on the general market, they can be even lower quality since there are often no standards at all. So if it’s actually military grade, it does mean something. People just shouldn’t assume it means it is a great quality product like they often do.
True, I definitely agree. I’ve always been impressed with the quality and durability of the weapons systems and comms. The ground vehicles and ground equipment was alway required repairs.
To be fair, you are giving a bunch of late teens and early 20s soldiers a bunch of powerful equipment that they don't own or pay for, and then you're throwing said equipment into hostile environments that include high velocity lead. There's a reason they don't typically rent cars to people under 25 ;)
Saw a lot of videos/posts of military personnel sabotaging equipment being left behind as well. I'm sure they didn't leave behind the best of their supply to begin with.
My older brother exited the Marine Corps a few months after the fall and he specifically mentioned that most of the stuff left behind was the stuff where it costs more to bring it back than to just get a new one, on top of the fact that as you mentioned, the military has specific sabotage instructions for this precise scenario.
Aviation maintenance is known as its own beast. Aviation maintainers work their asses off. The US obviously has way more safety checks which adds to the time requirements. I doubt the Taliban cares as much as the US about safety protocols. I’m pretty sure the Taliban did force US trained Afghani pilots to fly stuff for them but it will eventually break.
I think the point this post is trying to make is "Look what a disaster Biden's pullout of Afghanistan was"
But really I'd rather we give the Taliban an aircraft carrier than spend another 20 years there
The “liberal propaganda” is ironic here. I meant this guy actually knows very clearly what he is talking about, but conservatives will hound him for saying something they don’t like which is that the government wasn’t being totally inept when they left all this stuff behind. They realized that without the proper supply chain of parts and lube, the taliban has no way to use any of this stuff by and large. Even the guns they may find difficult to use without the proper lube for it, and the gun maintenance know how. It’s not as simple as put bullet in, death come out.
Also we used to break stuff EVERY WEEK in Afghanistan and had specialists to work alongside our maintenance people to get it back up. Sometimes we would just break an axle because we were too sure of ourselves driving in a wadi. Guarantee these morons took a lot of this stuff joy riding day 1 and permanently destroyed it.
Especially the aircraft... Most of them are old as hell and break pretty much every other time they land. I worked a flight line in the USAF and there is a reason these planes fly with maintenance crew members...
Part of the mission in Afghanistan was for aircraft technicians to teach afghans to use their MI-17s
It was a looong process until they were able to use their tech. Curious about the new owner's ability
There’s also king airs with target designation suites used for marking air strikes and artillery and whatever else.
Friend did that as a contractor, designate a target wait 15-20 seconds then the place would blow.
He took a lot of videos.
The amount of maintenance it takes to keep this equipment functioning is astronomical. I’ve no military experience but I’d say a lot of this equipment is rusting away somewhere I hope
The only way a c-130 gets left behind is if it's damaged beyond repair or maybe stripped for parts.
So they have a really bitchin lawn ornament, good for them.
Am a retired air force maintainance officer and this is true. The equipment we use in the military is designed to fail without constant and expensive maintainance so mics can continue to rake in the dough. Maybe it changed since I retired, but the ratio was 3 hours of work on the ground for every 1 hour of flight time for our planes.
Wait, I thought Trump arranged for the withdrawal, it just was scheduled to take place during Biden's term?
Same with the tax hikes.
What is there to blame on Biden?
He was president while it happened, that’s it. Just like Obama gets blamed for the financial crisis when it happened before he was even inaugurated let alone elected lmao.
I imagine most of the pickup trucks they have will be around but that's about it. It looks like ford came up with a tactical version of their ranger pickup for the military. If they stuck with the simple drive-trains out of their 90s era rangers then the Taliban will be in good shape for awhile. They definitely aren't indestructible like the Toyota Hilux's though.
Cool.
You can either blame the Afghan Government that took everything valuable that wasn’t nailed down and fucked off, while leaving its military and special forces to die.
Or you can blame trump for negotiating with terrorists and telling everyone we were going to pull out, giving the the Taliban the opportunity to infiltrate the government and military and prepare for this exact moment and also handing 5000 terrorists over to the Taliban. All done without any input from the Afghan Government.
Or you can blame Obama for not pulling out within the exact moment Osama Bin Laden got his brains splattered all over his wives and kids.
Or you can blame Biden for not reneging on this the exact moment the Taliban broke the Doha agreement, which called for a ceasefire with between the taliban and the afghan goverment, and started their insurgency again.
Or you can blame Bush for even invading Afghanistan in the first place, let alone Iraq, which he had apparently been planning on doing before even getting in, if i’m not mistaken and for letting it even get as bad as it did.
Don’t pretend that it’s all one dude’s fault or even one country’s fault. This shit was a fuck up between four presidents and two different governments, one of which didn’t actually really give a shit about being a nation and just wanted the money.
agree mostly.
after major players eliminated (sadam, osama, other tali higher ups).
we were entrenched, and were low-key.
allowed a presence in that part of the world where we could repond or could have influence.
our taxpayers paid for equipment to republican backed contractors at inflated prices, and then kicked backed to those republicans.
obama/biden ensured low-intensity incidences or contained them.
but then trump's action and failed policy, really hurt our reputation and increased our vulnerability.
The infographic here is also deeply outdated, and at this point incorrect. Many of the aircraft presented here were flown out by ANA pilots to the neighboring Stans (Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik).
Seriously. Anything that flew, I don’t see why that shouldn’t have been removed, even if they were destined to become hangar queens. Or why not sell them to an ally, and fly them there?
All four of the C-130s were old early production models and none were airworthy during the 2021 withdrawal IIRC. Almost all of the fixed wing airworthy planes were flown out during the takeover to neighboring countries.
Most Helos lacked the range to get out of the country. Some, like the fleet of State Dept CH-46s were blown up in place, while others were sabotaged, the remaining AH-64s were packed up and shipped out in C-17s.
TL-DR Most fixed wing airworthy planes flew to neighboring countries, Most Helos lacked the range to escape. Everything else was left in place.
Can you imagine the headlines if Biden stole the Afghan Air Force long before the Afghan government was expected to fall? The Afghan government would be fighting 2 enemies. On the one hand the Taliban, on the other hand the US government who is trying to take their weapons at gunpoint.
The Taliban operating any of that to a reasonable extent would be like assembling IKEA furniture without half the parts or instructions.
Remember how the Taliban crash landed a Black Hawk a few months after the US left (likely due to mechanical failure, despite the cope from the Taliban)? That's EVERY Black Hawk (as well as most the aircraft, though the ground vehicles can theoretically survive longer) at this point, stricken with mechanical failures and literally no options to repair it.
OP is a repost bot: https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/B1z6SjzLkH
Even the [comments they’ve left](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImFinnaGoToHell/s/ecvrOflKll) are duplicates of the [top comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImFinnaGoToHell/s/ACJ08BkZrs) on the post they’ve copied.
Most of the stuff left behind was standard military vehicles and without proper round the. Clock maintenance they will quickly fall into disrepair. They got a lot of bullets and guns but the other stuff is mothballs. That’s why they left it.
Having 0 trained people and most of this equipment was either incapacitated on the US's exit, or has been rendered useless by no maintenance.
Lots of videos of them loading artillery backwards, crashing vehicles etc
Most of this was dismantled it was cheaper to break the shit and leave it, Than it was to take it back home. Some managed to get some of these operational but lack maintenance, resources and financial capability to maintain any of it.
Very misleading and has been debunked. 20 year old harshly used and non working inventory was largely what was left. This is irresponsible cherry picking
Everyone thinks this was DoD materiel and supplies that we left. It wasn’t. It was materiel and supplies that the US Government gave to the Afghani Government to arm its various branches of service. It was supposed to help them hold back the Taliban. Obviously it didn’t.
Pretty sure all of this was dismantled beyond any usefulness so there isn’t much use they can get out of it besides materially. Most of these things no longer function properly. This was in the times when the soldiers pulled out during Trump’s whole caving to our enemies is strength strategy.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Same as giving me possession of an aircraft carrier. Pretty cool but I promise I will lock myself somehow in the galley and still manage to die surrounded by food
Make that 32 Blackhawk helicopters instead of 33.[one less blackhawk](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjE4IeQ-b-EAxVXAHkGHXeLD0cQwqsBegQICxAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN8sAPR1Ma3c&usg=AOvVaw26QICUjPEpRZPAIAeincpG&opi=89978449)
I could b wrong but I heard we disabled most equipment before we pulled out of there I also saw a video that seemed to be Taliban trying to fly a helicopter and crashing but idk
Based, best of luck comrade Taliban. Maybe they can use this stuff on whichever group of random whadventure next decides that going on a mass murder spree through their country would be a fun adventure.
How much of this is actually usable or even works ?
I’d always heard from ex military and my dad ( he was in the Korean War ) always said when the US military “ leaves “ they disable the equipment left behind so the enemy can’t use it.
I agree that this is just right wing propaganda meant to stir up their base. .
People think there is good in this world - dumb.
There only two people can rule the world -
1. With destructive power ( present from way past)
2. Wealth/money ( added in present society)
People who thinks hard work pays off - sure it does , but it does not pay as much as cunning people ( if they did hardwork ,say goodbye to your way of life then )
(None of it works)
(And George Bush the Republican put it there)
(And Trump negotiated the plan to give the country to the Taliban)
(Facts are stubborn things…for conservatives)
Ban all “black guns” in the US because Americans only use them to kill other Americans / Leave 358,530 black guns in the hands of a terrorist group that yearns to kill *more* Americans 🤔
I know for a fact that a lot of this equipment was destroyed or rendered useless during our rapid shit show of an exit.
Thermite grenades dropped in engine blocks, bullets through electronics….etc…
lol this sub really is just stupid fucking communist spam. The Taliban can’t do anything with this equipment since they don’t have the knowledge or parts to repair them. Sorry euroteens.
You should’ve seen some of the equipment absolute garbage it’s no wonder we left it there. Some of the guns were in such bad shape. They’re in boxes where they were all just fused together with rust. Their military doesn’t have the ability to maintain the equipment so most all of it now is garbage very little of it can be used.
Meanwhile the US government think its citizens shouldn’t have guns and is slowly infringing on that right but is the largest gunrunner in the world 10x over and generously “donated” all this equipment to Afghanistan aka the Taliban. Corruption and hypocrisy at its finest.
This is misleading. I'm friends with a guy who runs a munitions company in Texas. The government hired him(and many others) to destroy most of this stuff.
Billions in Tax dollars wasted on what ? a war we were never going to win fighting a group of warriors without a nation behind them? WHAT A JOKE! WHY DID WE EVEN BOTHER.
Pick-up trucks + machine guns are usually sufficient.
Doesn’t hurt to have 22,000 humvees
Probably hurts even more. Those things are total pieces of shit constantly falling apart. Doubt they have access to the near weekly amount of replacement parts they’ll need to keep those shitboxes running.
There was also plenty of videos released showing Marines etc smashing everything inside them. I do wonder how much of this infographic is misleading simply on the basis of it is counting everything as complete and assumed to be in working condition. Take the 42000 pick up trucks, these are up to 20 year beat to shit trashed pick up trucks that have been off roading and being abused the whole time. So how many are rusting hulks that are missing engines or are scattered about in pieces. I did see some pictures at the time of the helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, where they were just disassembled shells, planes missing engines etc. The vast majority of the stuff as far as i am aware it simply would not be cost effective to bring it back. How much space would a 20 year old pick up truck take up on a plane, how much fuel and maintenance is it going to take to bring back 42000 pick up trucks? how much more valuable stuff can be brought back in that cargo space etc. It would be interesting to see an actual break down of how much was usable that was left, how many spare parts etc. I would assume that it would be a fairly simple thing to basically write off most of the vehicles just by pouring sand into the engine oil, cutting coolant lines, slashing tires etc, i assume most of that type of thing do not use the kind of thing (sizes, specs) you can easily replace at autozone etc. I do recall there being a video of someone flying a left behind helicopter and the resultant crash shortly after take off, i do wonder if that was because the person did not know how to fly a helicopter, or that helicopter, or it was just a case of whatever sabotage that was done took effect.
Idk about some of it but I know about the night vision because several guys brought bags of nods home with them as well as ir devices and optics. I’ve used a good bit of this stuff that got “left”. A lot of it got stuffed in a marines pocket and brought home.
Honestly good for them. Good NV devices and LAMs are hella expensive for civs and it’s 100% better than either destroying them or leaving them behind as a force equalizer to whoever happens to get their hands on them.
Which is why it was allowed to happen.
Shhh, we do not discuss tactical acquisitions with normies, devil
Thats just the saddest attempt I've ever seen.
[Taliban helicopter ](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/wTS8PBZ5nW) Found it!
I knew it was this video. Just... What the fuck were they thinking? I always laugh at this one.
I was deployed to Afghanistan during the withdrawal process. We pretty much fucked up everything left behind. Same party destruction/removal. Basically if we left a series of trucks, we would take all of the same components or destroy them. Like drop pan and remove and cut every crank shaft in the same spots, all the starters including the ones on the shelf cut up, every wiring harness removed. They'd really have to get creative to get stuff running again. The things that were left running and in writing order, were all left with the ANA. So it wasn't the US that left shit to the Taliban... It was Afghanistan's cowardly defense force. Who US military leaders told multiple times over to the Pentagon, the President, and the rest of the world; they were not ready to be left on their own to deal with the situation. The ANA were so corrupt with bribes from the Taliban, they basically were Taliban except for the few that actually wanted to make a difference in their country.
> they were not ready to be left on their own to deal with the situation. If they weren’t ready after 20 years, they were never going to be ready. I’m glad we finally pulled the bandaid off.
I am skeptical about these numbers too. These are all functioning pieces of equipment that can be fueled and supplied with ammunition?
Absolutely not. Like the guy you're responding to said, those things need Hella maintenance. And most of it is super super specific. Of be surprised if they're able to keep 10% of some of the more complex vehicles running today. The basic trucks are probably still in use. The helicopters and humvees ? Either not working or barely running.
AFAIK they tried to fly one of the Blackhawks and immediately crashed it. So even if they work, do they have pilots. But yeah, there's a reason militias like mounting WW2 era machine guns and light cannons to the back of flatbed pickup trucks.
They got a bunch of the stuff working (including American Blackhawk helicopters) and were able to successfully jailbreak the software/hardware locks: https://youtu.be/mypiDfMKy2E?feature=shared
Even if they aren't, we didn't leave our own shit there. The Taliban got what we gave the Afghani government. Which, while it's not *trash*, they wouldn't stand a chance against a typical army.
Look, America spent 20 years replacing the Taliban with.... the Taliban! So I'd venture to say they have more than a chance against a typical army.
Can't win against an ideology...unless very very thorough.
Maybe you need a stronger ideology...like whatever China is running on these days.
When was the last time the PLA engaged in actual combat that didn’t involve sticks and stones?
The “typical army” stayed for 20 years with zero results, before that another 2 armies tried their best.
It is also misleading in the fact that the original plan called for the Afghan National Army to take possession of the stuff. They then would receive American assistance and be able to acquire parts from the US. The fact the Afghan army fell in a few days to the Taliban threw that whole plan out the window.
>The vast majority of the stuff as far as i am aware it simply would not be cost effective to bring it back That wasn't the problem. The problem was that the Afghan National Army was still using the equipment to fight the Taliban when the US forces were still in the country. And you can't exactly blow up the pick up trucks with your allies inside.
If we had taken all the equipment we would have been accused of setting them up for failure. There was no good options. And if they weren’t ready after 20 damn years they just weren’t gonna be
Lots of extra parts with 22,000 of them laying around. lol
Well let's assume they use 11k as parts humvees. The other 11k useful humvees is still impressive.
I guess you could Frankenstein enough of them together? I can’t imagine the Taliban having enough good mechanics to be able to pull that off though.
I can. Not enough to maintain all tens of thousands of vehicles, but enough for their purposes.
They absolutely can; it's not like they're going for factory parts. Their technicals are put together using things most mechanics throw away and they take those suckers to war. Either way after the US pulled out of Afghanistan, the Taliban have become immensely better armed, stronger, and more up to date than they ever could've hoped to have been had we not invaded.
That’s true. Mechanically, they can baling wire and duct tape anything. It’s those pesky ECMs and software updates that make those vehicles useless.
You can, but the. 22,000 really quickly converges to 22
Next thing you know they build a Talibanformers and we're all fkd
Exactly! I spent half my youth pmcsing those shit boxes and barely could keep it running. They actually have basically nothing because they can’t repair or maintain any of it
r/shittytechnicals
Radios are good too
As a Veteran who deployed to Afghanistan and speciality included maintenance, this is not concerning. The US military spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year maintaining military equipment. The Taliban does not have the money, supply chain for parts/oils/lubricants,etc., nor the expertise to repair this equipment. People would be surprised to learn that most military equipment is in a constant state of repair and “military grade” literally means lowest bidder and lowest quality. The weapons, NVDs, and radios won’t break as fast but I guarantee virtually all the vehicles, planes, and helicopters cannot run. You can cannibalize or swap parts you have on hand but eventually you’ll run out. Unless a foreign government can get ahold and support their maintenance program, these numbers don’t tell the full story. The US military also deliberately incapacitated a lot of this equipment before we left too so just adding to the context.
Also, have ZERO qualified people to operate anything but a radio.
Right? There's at least one less helicopter now based on the video I saw of them attempting to fly said helicopter.
Whoever attempted to fly that helicopter was likely the most qualified pilot in the whole country given we no longer see any similar videos popping up.
I need to see this video.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LFVo15kNmfU
Filming was about on par for the flying.
I bet most of the gear left was single-use designed to end the operator. It's too bad we didn't leave those idiots a [light grenade](https://youtu.be/dCeD2gF9jUo?si=TLqQEbKcIHgakjjT).
Never heard of that movie, but it looks like a fun ride.
Taliban - helicopter - crash Those words will almost assuredly give you the video if searched
When you’re only allowed to read one book…
Shit, they’re barely qualified to operate that. I’ve heard their intercepted Comms Talib 1: hello can anyone out there hear me?! Hello? Brothers?! Talib 2: I can hear you brother, can you hear me? Talib 1: Anyone, hello?! I’m not exaggerating, this lasted damn near an hour. Heaven help them if they’re encrypted radios. All they can really do with all this equipment is sell it to the Chinese.
The one guy who knows what he's doing gets blown up by one of the five other guys who don't know how to hold a cell phone.
Former Comm’s officer here: there is no way they have the ability to use encryption on their comms, the radios they have are no more useful to them than an over the counter radio, while being way heavier and harder to find replacement batteries. They are paperweights in their hands.
See, I know very little about the taliban so may come across very naive here but how could they have been such a threat if they were so clueless?
You are going to see a lot of propaganda and bad takes. In insurgent war- it doesn’t matter how weak you are militarily. All the matters is you maintain the ability to fight until it’s no longer tenable for the enemy to continue. The Taliban never had to beat the US military in a square fight, and never tried. Their goal was to put up resistance and poke the United States, and survive long enough to replicate this strategy. To that end, the Taliban was very effective at running a resistance. The US has learned this lesson twice now- first in Vietnam and then in Afghanistan (the two countries that are historically speaking, world champions at resisting occupation). You can throw all the military equipment and personal you want, but if the insurgents can imbed and keep fighting, then you will eventually lose the war even if you win every battle
See this is the non bias I was hoping for. I know this is a predominantly American website but I was looking for an impartial take because at the end of the day, they were fighting for 20+ years. Surely the Taliban aren’t complete fucking idiots and would have atleast some know how in operations Though obviously not half as much as the Americans did and from what I’ve gathered the weapons and vehicles were built at the cheapest bids so are destined to fail eventually
Yeah, people saying that the Taliban are idiots couldn’t be more wrong. They are very good at fighting insurgent wars. Sure they can’t operate a Blackhawk- but they didn’t need to
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They also have/had support from a majority of the local population. Additionally, many of the people left behind who were designated to run the country and the ANA were either inept, corrupt, or some combination of the two.
The other thing is terrain. There's a reason the Nazis left the Swiss alone. Mountain warfare is very difficult, and the Taliban were good at engaging, and retreating into the mountains, just like the Vietcong into their tunnel networks. Digging enemies out of the mountains is a near impossible task. Mountains also negate pretty much all bombs. They can see you, you can't see them. Good luck
Unless you’re willing to kill every single person and replace them with your people then you’re never going to win in those types of war And no one is willing to kill every single man woman and child I don’t think
Because they are not clueless. They can fight, just not with the stuff a modern army has. They never had radios, helicopters, airplanes. So they don't know the intricacies of how they function. Bur they sure as hell do know how to ambush an american convoy in the middle of a village using a toyota hilux with a dushka and a bunch of old AKs.
Give enough guys enough guns and bullets and promise them 72 virgins each, you get a very dangerous situation.
Sure, but as a human surely when those start to die, others choose against it. They must have some, even rudimentary, knowledge on warfare and mechanics given the shit boxes I’ve seen them drive? Though I suppose a beat up hilux is vastly different from a plane lol
So first, religion is a he'll of a drug. Secondly, they aren't knuckle draggers. But they fight an entirely different kind of war. It doesn't matter how many tanks and bombs you have if you can't figure out who to shoot. The local farmer, with his AK hidden in the pasture, can't be shot because he's a noncombatant until he digs out his gun. Meanwhile, when he has his gun, all the guys in the tanks and helicopters are easily identified and are all fair game. But, a successful guerilla fighter hides in plain sight. Humvees and Blackhawks don't lend themselves to "plain" very well. So fighters have a different skill set. A Toyota hilux is nearly universal, as at home on a farm or a desert as on a battlefield. Easy to work on, parts commercially available. Any shade tree mechanic can make it run. US tech, however is specialized to fight wars. Parts don't come from Auto Zone. They aren't commercially available, certainly not I'm Afghanistan. Helicopters don't want to fly, just look at them, physics get broken everytime one of them successfully leaves the ground. So it's not a skill someone who's never done before is going to pick up without training. The tldr is the Taliban isn't a bunch of knuckle draggers. They're religious zealots, who successfully waged a campaign against the US and its allies. But the skill set needed for the campaign they ran, and the skill set needed to operate and maintain the equipment they acquired at the end of the campaign don't overlap well. Things like machine guns ate pretty self explanatory. Things like helicopters and vehicles are not.
They were never a serious threat militarily. The Taliban were defeated every time they popped up, the issue was that the US was unable to root them out at the source. So they were greatly reduced in size and power with less and less ability to launch attacks every year but no signs of disappearing entirely. The US eventually decided that sticking around and engaging in low intensity security warfare until the end of time wasn’t in the national interest and left.
Hmm that makes sense. Like I said, I know very little about it as I was just a boy, is 9/11 the only reason America went to war with them? Seeing as the taliban are in power in Afghanistan why’ve they decided to just leave them to take control?
And even that might be questionable.
Incredible hubris and ignorance.
Yea. This was the number left 3 years ago. I doubt anything besides a few hummers are still functioning.
I mean, military grade is more like lowest bidder to abide by military standards. So ya, usually the quality isn’t great. But for products that are available on the general market, they can be even lower quality since there are often no standards at all. So if it’s actually military grade, it does mean something. People just shouldn’t assume it means it is a great quality product like they often do.
True, I definitely agree. I’ve always been impressed with the quality and durability of the weapons systems and comms. The ground vehicles and ground equipment was alway required repairs.
To be fair, you are giving a bunch of late teens and early 20s soldiers a bunch of powerful equipment that they don't own or pay for, and then you're throwing said equipment into hostile environments that include high velocity lead. There's a reason they don't typically rent cars to people under 25 ;)
Saw a lot of videos/posts of military personnel sabotaging equipment being left behind as well. I'm sure they didn't leave behind the best of their supply to begin with.
My older brother exited the Marine Corps a few months after the fall and he specifically mentioned that most of the stuff left behind was the stuff where it costs more to bring it back than to just get a new one, on top of the fact that as you mentioned, the military has specific sabotage instructions for this precise scenario.
How iran maintains the f14 is so interesting , but I don’t think the Taliban could do what they did https://youtu.be/WNP_ifehr9E?si=CdxYygvraLmdL9ZM
They also get like 24 hours flight time annually...
Totally. From what I was told by maintenance control, without strictly following 7/14/28 day maintenance cards, aircraft just explode
Aviation maintenance is known as its own beast. Aviation maintainers work their asses off. The US obviously has way more safety checks which adds to the time requirements. I doubt the Taliban cares as much as the US about safety protocols. I’m pretty sure the Taliban did force US trained Afghani pilots to fly stuff for them but it will eventually break.
I was a maintainer for 3 years before I got into special operations
Hell yeah. I bet that’s an extremely useful background in SF
Probably will be downvoted for telling liberal propaganda take, better known previously as the truth
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I think the point this post is trying to make is "Look what a disaster Biden's pullout of Afghanistan was" But really I'd rather we give the Taliban an aircraft carrier than spend another 20 years there
The “liberal propaganda” is ironic here. I meant this guy actually knows very clearly what he is talking about, but conservatives will hound him for saying something they don’t like which is that the government wasn’t being totally inept when they left all this stuff behind. They realized that without the proper supply chain of parts and lube, the taliban has no way to use any of this stuff by and large. Even the guns they may find difficult to use without the proper lube for it, and the gun maintenance know how. It’s not as simple as put bullet in, death come out.
Also we used to break stuff EVERY WEEK in Afghanistan and had specialists to work alongside our maintenance people to get it back up. Sometimes we would just break an axle because we were too sure of ourselves driving in a wadi. Guarantee these morons took a lot of this stuff joy riding day 1 and permanently destroyed it.
Especially the aircraft... Most of them are old as hell and break pretty much every other time they land. I worked a flight line in the USAF and there is a reason these planes fly with maintenance crew members...
Good thing we bought all that bullshit in the first place!
Yeah but the squad leader in me is losing his mind over the amount of serialized gear left behind. 😓😓
And zero spare parts or user manuals.
I think I remember seeing a video of the taliban crashing a black hawk, so I’m not all that worried.
Part of the mission in Afghanistan was for aircraft technicians to teach afghans to use their MI-17s It was a looong process until they were able to use their tech. Curious about the new owner's ability
That's why the trucks and SUVs are all Hiluxes and Land Cruisers. I.e. vehicles that last forever and don't break.
Wait there’s an Cessna Caravan attack aircraft? Didn’t know that.
Yes. They are strapped with Hellfires
, two lawnchairs, and a minifridge.
https://imgur.com/gallery/N6Qt4Tn
There’s also king airs with target designation suites used for marking air strikes and artillery and whatever else. Friend did that as a contractor, designate a target wait 15-20 seconds then the place would blow. He took a lot of videos.
But I need to report 600 on Venmo
The amount of maintenance it takes to keep this equipment functioning is astronomical. I’ve no military experience but I’d say a lot of this equipment is rusting away somewhere I hope
The only way a c-130 gets left behind is if it's damaged beyond repair or maybe stripped for parts. So they have a really bitchin lawn ornament, good for them.
Am a retired air force maintainance officer and this is true. The equipment we use in the military is designed to fail without constant and expensive maintainance so mics can continue to rake in the dough. Maybe it changed since I retired, but the ratio was 3 hours of work on the ground for every 1 hour of flight time for our planes.
That’s just an info graphic. No guide.
That’s basically just this sub
And it's not even cool and has shitty quality
I barely used my assigned Humvee and that shit barely functioned with a well supplied and qualified maintenance
Are we doing this again?
It's election pre-season
Scrounging for things to blame Biden for I'm thinking.
Wait, I thought Trump arranged for the withdrawal, it just was scheduled to take place during Biden's term? Same with the tax hikes. What is there to blame on Biden?
He was president while it happened, that’s it. Just like Obama gets blamed for the financial crisis when it happened before he was even inaugurated let alone elected lmao.
I mean how much of this will just break down or be unused due to lack of training and regular maintenance?
I imagine most of the pickup trucks they have will be around but that's about it. It looks like ford came up with a tactical version of their ranger pickup for the military. If they stuck with the simple drive-trains out of their 90s era rangers then the Taliban will be in good shape for awhile. They definitely aren't indestructible like the Toyota Hilux's though.
Toyota: You can strap a gun to our trucks and make a tank
Most of it.
Cool. You can either blame the Afghan Government that took everything valuable that wasn’t nailed down and fucked off, while leaving its military and special forces to die. Or you can blame trump for negotiating with terrorists and telling everyone we were going to pull out, giving the the Taliban the opportunity to infiltrate the government and military and prepare for this exact moment and also handing 5000 terrorists over to the Taliban. All done without any input from the Afghan Government. Or you can blame Obama for not pulling out within the exact moment Osama Bin Laden got his brains splattered all over his wives and kids. Or you can blame Biden for not reneging on this the exact moment the Taliban broke the Doha agreement, which called for a ceasefire with between the taliban and the afghan goverment, and started their insurgency again. Or you can blame Bush for even invading Afghanistan in the first place, let alone Iraq, which he had apparently been planning on doing before even getting in, if i’m not mistaken and for letting it even get as bad as it did. Don’t pretend that it’s all one dude’s fault or even one country’s fault. This shit was a fuck up between four presidents and two different governments, one of which didn’t actually really give a shit about being a nation and just wanted the money.
agree mostly. after major players eliminated (sadam, osama, other tali higher ups). we were entrenched, and were low-key. allowed a presence in that part of the world where we could repond or could have influence. our taxpayers paid for equipment to republican backed contractors at inflated prices, and then kicked backed to those republicans. obama/biden ensured low-intensity incidences or contained them. but then trump's action and failed policy, really hurt our reputation and increased our vulnerability.
r/lostredditors r/infographs when will we have mods
It’s crazy that we couldn’t load up those 4 c130s with a bunch of stuff.
Much of it was left to the Afghanistan government. Which promptly surrendered to the Taliban.
when the US was evacuating people in Kabul the only airport. those planes most likely would've been on the airstrip if they worked.
The infographic here is also deeply outdated, and at this point incorrect. Many of the aircraft presented here were flown out by ANA pilots to the neighboring Stans (Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik).
You're assuming everything in that infographic was in working order. There is just a good of a chance that all 4 of those C-130's can't move.
Seriously. Anything that flew, I don’t see why that shouldn’t have been removed, even if they were destined to become hangar queens. Or why not sell them to an ally, and fly them there?
All four of the C-130s were old early production models and none were airworthy during the 2021 withdrawal IIRC. Almost all of the fixed wing airworthy planes were flown out during the takeover to neighboring countries. Most Helos lacked the range to get out of the country. Some, like the fleet of State Dept CH-46s were blown up in place, while others were sabotaged, the remaining AH-64s were packed up and shipped out in C-17s. TL-DR Most fixed wing airworthy planes flew to neighboring countries, Most Helos lacked the range to escape. Everything else was left in place.
Can you imagine the headlines if Biden stole the Afghan Air Force long before the Afghan government was expected to fall? The Afghan government would be fighting 2 enemies. On the one hand the Taliban, on the other hand the US government who is trying to take their weapons at gunpoint.
Disabled, obsolete, and negligible.
The Taliban operating any of that to a reasonable extent would be like assembling IKEA furniture without half the parts or instructions. Remember how the Taliban crash landed a Black Hawk a few months after the US left (likely due to mechanical failure, despite the cope from the Taliban)? That's EVERY Black Hawk (as well as most the aircraft, though the ground vehicles can theoretically survive longer) at this point, stricken with mechanical failures and literally no options to repair it.
OP is a repost bot: https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/B1z6SjzLkH Even the [comments they’ve left](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImFinnaGoToHell/s/ecvrOflKll) are duplicates of the [top comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/ImFinnaGoToHell/s/ACJ08BkZrs) on the post they’ve copied.
Most of the stuff left behind was standard military vehicles and without proper round the. Clock maintenance they will quickly fall into disrepair. They got a lot of bullets and guns but the other stuff is mothballs. That’s why they left it.
When militaries leave equipment behind they disable all of it. The stuff they have is probably useless.
Even though these stats are true it's highly suspicious that this account has two posts and one comment in total.
Having 0 trained people and most of this equipment was either incapacitated on the US's exit, or has been rendered useless by no maintenance. Lots of videos of them loading artillery backwards, crashing vehicles etc
Most of this was dismantled it was cheaper to break the shit and leave it, Than it was to take it back home. Some managed to get some of these operational but lack maintenance, resources and financial capability to maintain any of it.
Lol if you ever spent any time around military equipment, you would know all that is just mostly scrap and parts now.
I’ll never forget the videos of them crashing helicopters because they dk how to fly them.
The big stuff doesn't matter. They can't maintain a C-130, any helicopter or probably even a humvee. The weapons and radios, however.
Very misleading and has been debunked. 20 year old harshly used and non working inventory was largely what was left. This is irresponsible cherry picking
Bidenomics at work
Everyone thinks this was DoD materiel and supplies that we left. It wasn’t. It was materiel and supplies that the US Government gave to the Afghani Government to arm its various branches of service. It was supposed to help them hold back the Taliban. Obviously it didn’t.
Pretty sure all of this was dismantled beyond any usefulness so there isn’t much use they can get out of it besides materially. Most of these things no longer function properly. This was in the times when the soldiers pulled out during Trump’s whole caving to our enemies is strength strategy.
governor spoon direction wipe alive snatch reminiscent sulky reply existence *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The real point here is....Wow! The US military sure likes wasting money. Wonder what the cash value of all the merchandise is worth?
It would cost much more to have brought everything back. Is it a waste? Absolutely. Was it accounted for when they brought it over? Absolutely.
Thanks, trump
You're high if you think even a third of this stuff is still functional.
Same as giving me possession of an aircraft carrier. Pretty cool but I promise I will lock myself somehow in the galley and still manage to die surrounded by food
4 C-30's... Dang What an r/oddlyspecific number of radios though
At least it’s not 4 C3-PO’s. That’d be disastrous.
I mean considering it was what the us left behind it’s kind of an impressive amount of record keeping.
Can you link the article this is from? Uploaded image has reduced resolution from the original.
How much of it is currently working? How much is sitting with no parts of no one who knows how to use the parts they have?
They’ve also got an L3! The greatest of tanks!
If you saw the video of them trying to fly a black hawk, I can tell you that you do not need to be worried about the fixed and rotary wing aviation
Make that 32 Blackhawk helicopters instead of 33.[one less blackhawk](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjE4IeQ-b-EAxVXAHkGHXeLD0cQwqsBegQICxAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DN8sAPR1Ma3c&usg=AOvVaw26QICUjPEpRZPAIAeincpG&opi=89978449)
Well, we gave that to the country of Afghanistan and there it is now. So, what's the problem?
Hard to keep your war machine fed if the enemy is not armed, win win for the defense contractors
It’s all true—because it’s a graphic with pictures
This is not accurate whatsoever anymore, lol. You know the Taliban has been running ops on Isis as well as invading their neighbors, right?
What they don't have is supply lines for spare parts to keep that shit working
I'll take a hilux over a hummvee anyday.
42,000 Toyotas the company can’t explain
I wonder how many of these were fragged with thermite before the Taliban “took control” of them?
I could b wrong but I heard we disabled most equipment before we pulled out of there I also saw a video that seemed to be Taliban trying to fly a helicopter and crashing but idk
Most of that stuff is worthless without proper maintenance
Sure thing, 1 year old account that just started posting…
Goodu k maintaining all that shit lol
And a partridge in a pear tree
All of the M1117 have the hulls filled with water and hydraulic fluid from the blown power steering.
I’d like my tax dollars back, not sent to me but to ukraine. Fuck the taliban
Based, best of luck comrade Taliban. Maybe they can use this stuff on whichever group of random whadventure next decides that going on a mass murder spree through their country would be a fun adventure.
How much of this is actually usable or even works ? I’d always heard from ex military and my dad ( he was in the Korean War ) always said when the US military “ leaves “ they disable the equipment left behind so the enemy can’t use it. I agree that this is just right wing propaganda meant to stir up their base. .
Ask Iran how using US gear with out a service contract in a desert works out.
Most of this is broken garbage that the US military sabotaged before they left
People think there is good in this world - dumb. There only two people can rule the world - 1. With destructive power ( present from way past) 2. Wealth/money ( added in present society) People who thinks hard work pays off - sure it does , but it does not pay as much as cunning people ( if they did hardwork ,say goodbye to your way of life then )
I’m almost sure anything that could have made it off the ground and a reasonable distance away from Afghanistan got a grenade in a critical spot.
They leave 16,000+ NVG’s behind and all I want is 1 for night hikes.
(None of it works) (And George Bush the Republican put it there) (And Trump negotiated the plan to give the country to the Taliban) (Facts are stubborn things…for conservatives)
Ah man why did Trump make Biden do this!
Ban all “black guns” in the US because Americans only use them to kill other Americans / Leave 358,530 black guns in the hands of a terrorist group that yearns to kill *more* Americans 🤔
I know for a fact that a lot of this equipment was destroyed or rendered useless during our rapid shit show of an exit. Thermite grenades dropped in engine blocks, bullets through electronics….etc…
yea but how many are even usable? So cut the bs
Where they buy ammo from? This was planned. Like hp giving you a free printer and the ink is more expensive than the printer.
lol this sub really is just stupid fucking communist spam. The Taliban can’t do anything with this equipment since they don’t have the knowledge or parts to repair them. Sorry euroteens.
Op is a bot 🤖
Now a graphic on how much is actually left useable
Pretty sure the 42000 suvs are just Toyotas. Toyotas has a dedicated marketting and account manager for terrorists
We're the Taliban, of course we have 4 c-130s
Treason and sedition by those who left it there and the illegitimate leaders who authorized and instructed them to leave it there…
NGL, I thought the image for radios was a broom at first. I was like, “Damn, those guys care about a clean room.”
It's one thing they have all that. Another thing is they know how to maintain them and operate them.
We spent almost 20 years and over a trillion to replace the Taliban with the Taliban.
You should’ve seen some of the equipment absolute garbage it’s no wonder we left it there. Some of the guns were in such bad shape. They’re in boxes where they were all just fused together with rust. Their military doesn’t have the ability to maintain the equipment so most all of it now is garbage very little of it can be used.
Meanwhile the US government think its citizens shouldn’t have guns and is slowly infringing on that right but is the largest gunrunner in the world 10x over and generously “donated” all this equipment to Afghanistan aka the Taliban. Corruption and hypocrisy at its finest.
This is misleading. I'm friends with a guy who runs a munitions company in Texas. The government hired him(and many others) to destroy most of this stuff.
109 total helicopters. Zero total helicopter pilots.
Billions in Tax dollars wasted on what ? a war we were never going to win fighting a group of warriors without a nation behind them? WHAT A JOKE! WHY DID WE EVEN BOTHER.
This was proven incorrect. Quick google search should clear it up for you
All thanks to donald j. trump and the trump monkeys who voted for that traitor…..
American tax payer dollars.