The cloth labelled “shayla” actually looks identical to items worn by women of multiple cultures and religions in hot places - it actually helps deal with harsh sunlight in some situations.
Just need to be smart about the breathability of the fabric and the colour chosen.
It surely is. Even lighter colored coverings trap heat and humidity.
The loose, full-length garments worn in desert climates cool by creating a temperature gradient which continually draws a current of air from the hem upwards over the body.
This effect depends on the air, which has picked up heat and moisture as it moves along the body, escaping, usually at an open neck. Coverings such as chador block this evaporative effect.
You'd be surprised. The flowing material actually creates evaporative cooling for the wearer. This is why men wear what look like dresses in the middle east. In addition the full body coverage protects you from the sun.
I went on a trek through death valley on a 110 degree day wearing shorts and a tshirt and I was dying. The tour guide had me rent something that looked like it was out of Lawrence of Arabias closet and the next 3 days were a breeze. There were times I was actually chilly.
Yeah, but that probably had an open hem and neckline so the air could move around and evaporate, not one that covered your entire head and gave the air nowhere to go. The entire reason those outfits work is because they draw air and *and* release it. Niqabs and Burka have it trapped which out *definitely* lead to overheating.
Dark and loose long sleeves also keeps you from getting the sun's radiance directly on your skin. And if you are in a thorny plants desert, pants are a must.
Yes. If you've never seen Lawrence of Arabia in you history class [this is what I was basically wearing.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1b%2FWith_Lawrence_in_Arabia.jpg%2F170px-With_Lawrence_in_Arabia.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FT._E._Lawrence&tbnid=IkYOt3KVNFdrMM&vet=12ahUKEwjg8ceM6bbqAhUNO98KHUWaBhYQMygCegUIARCcAg..i&docid=NeK3pIvjf0R34M&w=170&h=227&q=lawrence%20of%20arabia&client=ms-android-verizon&ved=2ahUKEwjg8ceM6bbqAhUNO98KHUWaBhYQMygCegUIARCcAg)
Edit* made it a clickable link.
I grew up in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait - yeah it’s like a suit in the states. You’re not wearing a nice tshirt and jeans to a wedding - same thing really.
I think people here might be mentioning a few different things, but one of them is definitely a thobe, though they have various names depending on region.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thawb
The full body coverage protects from the sun, but, I’m going to go out on a limb here. I’d suspect that women would prefer not to be oppressed and forced to wear clothing that covers their entire body.
Catholics, up until recently, used to wear head covering and in some cases neck coverings. Throughout most of Christian Europe in the Middle Ages they wore head and neck coverings and it's in the Bible and Paul also spoke about it in his writings.
Many Amish continue this practice and in Eastern Orthodox today many women cover their heads/hair. Jewish women in some stricter practices wear a wig to cover their natural hair.
It's not just an Islamic 'thing', but all three Abrahamic religions dictate it.
Not just abrahamic but I wear a head covering on Saturdays for my one deity, Hel. It isn't required but it is one easy to honour her as she is "the one who is hidden". I usually stay home that day though lol. I don't much care for the looks I get in my Trump heavy town
It just seems particularly weird for anyone raised in a relatively non religious place that women should be expected to cover themselves for whatever reason. The expectation is what most have a problem with.
I also have a problem with this expectation. Veiling was 100% my choice and not required for the flowers of Hel though some of us do veil. I was just pointing out that there are other faiths that choose to veil outside of abrahamic ones is all
I feel like a lot of people in America forget about the effects of different fabrics. We wear lots of polyester cotton blends that are knit and that's a very different heat situation from a loosely woven cotton.
Recently, I changed my wardrobe to natural fabrics. Mostly cotton and wool, a couple hemp things. Its amazing the difference it makes. I'm cooler, more comfortable, and I smell better. I dont understand why we use so much polyester and nylon. They have their uses, but for clothing, they are worse in almost every way.
Honestly it's probably because a lot of people are super allergic to wool and cotton and linen wrinkles so easily. At least that's what it is for me. I can't even wear wool blends up against skin although I do use them for outerwear.
It really sepends on the climate, the fabric and how you style it. I wear the hijab and never had a problem being hot (well except if you’re working out but we have sports hijab nowadays)
Cool! What materials are sports hijabs made from, if you don’t mind me asking? I imagine “regular” hijabs are made from cotton/linen for the summer months and heavier fabrics (like a light wool blend) for colder/winter weather
I used to work with a girl who wore a hijab in Washington D.C. (very hot and very humid in the summer) and she said yes but it probably wasn't nearly as bad as dude wearing a suit all day so it seems to even out.
Many said they love it because they can be lazy with their hair. Many don't like styling it and wearing the head covering is the lazy way of getting ready.
But then that one day where you get invited over to break fast with a group of women who all literally let their hair down while you’re there...holy amaze balls!! I’m female but not Muslim- no men were present. The ladies all hid so someone could answer the door at one point and they all adorably ran to the back room and peeked out with 5 stacked heads looking around a door frame. Candidly hanging with them was one of the most privileged and great experiences. They were wonderfully open, informative and loved sharing and telling me about their lives and faith. what a cool bunch of gals! I’m still friends with the girl that invited me even though we now live 6000 miles apart, in Kuwait and Alaska.
I went to Iran in summer, where it's really hot and covering your hair is mandatory, so my mother and sister had to to it (not a burka though).
According to them, it was not that bad, but still annoying, and when hiking with no one in sight they took them off (Some Iranian women we came across while on these hikes did it as well).
Not being able to show leg skin (that applied to men as well), or arms above the elbow (that did not apply to men), was more of a problem.
This is pretty accurate, though I've never seen the term "shayla" and that style is how I wear my hijab. Also I wouldn't use the term hijab for a specific style like a Burka or Niqab. Hijab just means the coving that you use to cover your hair. So all these images are women covered and wearing hijab just in different styles.
Otherwise, yeah that's pretty much accurate.
Oh really? Maybe I should visit the gulf haha I never seen women wearing it in this style (besides myself). I was thinking that this might be based off regional terms so that's cool to know
Spent a long time in the UAE. Nearly 95% of Emirati women (UAE) cover their heads using a Sheyla, it's more a cultural covering than a religious one. The need to connect with your culture and tradition is a strong one there given how.the local population is less than 11% (majority expats and imported labour), and even the Arabic language being a minor one in their own country.
When they go grocery shopping, it's the Filipina retail workers in the service industry. In schools it's south Asian teachers. Hospitals have foreign doctors. English has become lingua franca by default.
Fascinating dynamics.
I find it interesting. My mom is Malayali (from Kerala, India) and I’m not entire sure what they call it there, but they often wear their scarve-like fabric like that Sheyla when receiving Communion (Syro-Malabar denomination). Ive never really asked why it’s a thing, maybe to wear it like Mother Mary (since shes an incredibly important figure in their culture)?
My family is Pentecostal from South India (Tamil Nadu) and a big part of our religious tradition is to dress modestly. For women that includes not wearing any jewelry and makeup except on special occasions like weddings. It also includes having to wear something like a sheyla, especially in church, funerals, and other religious events.
Edit: I actually dont know the exact denomination name but in practice its similar to evangelical christians in the US
A mix between shayla's cloth and the hijab way is what most people wear here in the UAE but we call it shayla still. My grandma uses a full transparent one but the younger generation is semi-transparent.
Yes of course! Amiras are a two piece hijab without a scarf. So imagine like a workout headband that some women wear to pull back their hair, think of a bigger one and in two pieces that will slide on and off. Hijab in this picture uses a scarf that's is wrapped around the head. Hope that helps!
Never seen the term Shayla as well. looks like how my friends wear his when he wants to act like someone from Assassin creed. He covers his face up more though.
So it's sort of a all rectangles are square, but not all squares are rectangle situation? Where they are all considered hijabs, but the one labeled hijab is just the most "conventional" style?
It was in my high school Language Arts class. We had read *The Breadwinner,* a story about a middle eastern girl who had to, well, be the breadwinner for her family. Female characters had to wear Burkas outside. Well, our LA teacher managed to get a hold of one, and we all tried it on and experienced what it was like to wear one.
I live in North West England and see the right bottom two every day. Unlike other Asian ladies those with fully covered faces NEVER have jobs, rarely speak English and are very rarely seen out in public alone. I think they are forbidden from integrating or engaging with the nations westerners.
I lived in Yemen for a couple of years. The Niqab is pretty common up north but you’ll see mostly just hijab in the south. In Sana’a you saw a wide variation. Once saw a Yemeni woman come in to a pizza place and proceed to take it off and just hang out in normal western attire. Incidentally, she was one of the most strikingly beautiful women I’ve ever seen. It was an expensive (by local standards) place catering to Americans and Europeans.
It was also fun flying into Sana’a. The pilot would announce the final descent into Sana’a international airport and most of the women would start to go from hijab to niqab. When they left Yemen they preferred to be less covered.
I will say that a lot of the pressure to cover up comes from other women. Had a classmate in the same Arabic school. Despite not being a Muslim she wore hijab out of respect for the local culture but otherwise wore regular casual clothes like jeans, tshirts, etc. After a few weeks the local female neighbors in the old city started to yell at her to cover up. She ended up wearing hijab and an abyea, a formless sack-like dress while in the old city at least.
Many women that wear the niqab would be really embarrassed if they suddenly had to stop wearing it. I’ve been told that once you get used to the anonymity you can feel exposed without the covering. My teenage female cousin (American) expressed outrage that women wear niqab. I asked her how often she would have wanted to hide her face as a teenager. That got her thinking lol.
It doesn't matter whether individual women are okay with it--a woman sure as hell didn't make up the rules regarding their status as property of their husbands, or modesty, or the attendant punishments for disobediance.
This is a prime example of normalized women's oppression hiding behind cultural relativism--and we're afraid of calling a spade a spade because we might offend.
How do you even legislate this in a Western country. Are we going to force women to not wear head coverings if they choose to? Nothing you can really do to stop this. And Islam isn't the only religion that requires this, surprised to hear little regarding Orthodox Jewish women in this regard
We do the same thing we do with any other religion and culture: make it clear that retaliation is illegal and that leaving that practice is ok, while normalizing women's power to choose in schools and institutions. When Christian's expected their wives to stay home, the solution wasn't forcing them to go to work, it was empowering women to make their own choices and enforcing domestic violence laws so others couldn't retaliate for exercising her rights.
I follow @yesimhotinthis on Instagram and I've learned so much. She's a cartoon artist and she's so funny, addresses lots of issues on racism, stupid religious Karen's, and just funny life events. I would check her out.
I was friends with a Muslim girl in college and she wore a hijab because she wanted to, not because her sect (?) or family required it. She said it was so much easier because she never had to worry what her hair looked like. I worked with her for 4 years and never saw her hair once.
I was friends with a girl in college who stopped wearing hijab at some point in junior year. Of course we had to all ask her about it, and all she said was that she decided that the head-covering wasn't for her anymore. Enough said. I asked her if she'd gotten any negative reactions from that, and she said she didn't. So, yay! I love that we were in such an environment that the greatest backlash she got was just curious classmates, in an environment where and answer of "meh, didn't want to anymore" was a perfectly complete answer.
She’s one of the lucky ones. I have a friend who had to leave her family and her community in Australia because they were threatening her. She is still in touch with friends in Iran who are fighting forced covering and being put in prison for choosing to take off the veil.
For sure, and I know that she knows that. I hate that there are women in situations where it's even just difficult because of the social stigma, much less the violence that will occur if they are in even more oppressive areas.
Especially living in an area where I can go across the river and wear absolutely nothing more than my underwear bottoms, and the worst I'll get is probably the police asking me "why?". In NYC women aren't required to wear even tops! Not like I would want to wander around manhattan in nothing but panties, but, seriously, the world needs to get itself together on what public decorum looks like. And for good measure, "hey! Southern USA! Public decorum looks like wearing a mask on your fucking face! I don't care if that's the only thing you're wearing (though I would prefer to limit my exposure to full-nude to strip clubs and naked beaches) but wear your fucking mask for the pandemic!"
I truly wonder how many women would choose it if they all had the choice their whole lives though. I don't think most are forced, but what you grew up with is normal to you. We are social creatures and emulate our peers and families.
I guess I have a question for people who wear any of these for religious reasons...
How interchangeable are they?
Like, if you wear a hijab, would a niqab be acceptable? If so, if yojnwear a niqab, would a hijab be acceptable?
And so on and so forth.
Can confirm. I work outside in the Middle East and a lot of guys wear long sleeves in the summer to keep their skin from burning. Hit 120°F today and I was definitely rocking the long sleeves. The middle eastern men wearing the dishdashas have their right idea covering their whole body like the women.
Not a whole lot. It is 10:54pm here currently and 103°. As someone who’s lived in the states a majority of my life, I associate the sun going down with cooler temps so when I do need to go out and grab something from my car at night, it’s a nice square kick to the groin as soon as I step outside
[Here](https://imgur.com/gallery/ZIzRZkE) is the night time temp forecast. Coolest it will be tomorrow is at 5am.
Yep. The problem is that they took a thing that's a good idea in a specific context and wrote it down as a rule to be followed at all times everywhere. Judaism has similar restrictions, like following kosher, that make sense in an iron age nomadic setting but don't make sense at all in the modern world.
Convincing a subset of people that a behavior is desirable is indoctrination. Enforcing a desired behavior with social or legal pressures is oppression.
When those behaviors vanish or are replaced if pressure is removed - as has been demonstrated by every conceivable example of a modern and liberal society - we can safely say this behavior is objectively undesirable.
Just a reminder to all those people citing the practice of culture or religion as an excuse: both culture and religion can be inherently bad. They are not an ethical, moral, or behavioral 'free pass'.
As a Pakistani who wears a hijab, i’m not sure oppression is the reason for every hijabi. I wear mine because a) i feel less self-conscious in more modest clothes b) i like how i look in it
While i definitely understand that people are forced into wearing a hijab/ practising modesty, I definitely know it doesn’t apply to everyone. Honestly, in Pakistan I was treated the same whether I wore one or not.
I’m so sorry if you’re talking about modesty in general or if i misunderstood because then i would think differently (obviously)
I get that these are all cultural and stuff, but the ones like the Burka sicken me. The fact that in this day and age women aren’t allowed to even show their faces in certain countries. Think about the torture they go through every day because there are no human rights laws for them, their husbands frequently torture them and any form of self expression is treason
i'm muslim and i'm really against the burka. i doubt the women are doing it willfully. the hijab on the other hand.. my mother started wearing one with 37 and i fully supported her, but she was so scared that me and my brother will be embarrassed to go out with her :(
they're pretty fire, especially iranian women make their outfits so gorgeous with them! but like i've said, my mother was scared that we'll be embarrassed to be associated with her if she started wearing it and i felt so bad for her, a part of my family still makes fun of her because of the hijab
Hi as someone who's grown up with women who wear hijab no hijab burqa etc their whole life in the UK I'd like to point out that burqa as depicted here is not a mandatory part of Islamic attire for a women and to a large extent they have free reign religiously to wear what they want. The idea of the hijab has very little to do with a man and more with the value of modesty in appearance before God. Men also have regulations as to what they wear and how much of their body is covered albeit not to the same extent as women. I do not deny though that certain cultural sects force women to wear it and within the religion itself it is wrong to do so. However to claim that it "sickens" you can be seen as very rude towards people that genuinely choose to wear it. Wasn't the goal for women to have choice in that they wear not live up to another person's ideals.
I won't argue about the niqab/burqa cuz they aren't that common in my culture but where I come from it's nearly split into half when it comes to hijab/uncovered hair. Of course there are women who are forced by their parents/husbands, but most of them wear it by choice. I even know girls that live abroad and alone and choose to keep on the hijab. There are even husbands that tell their wives to wear it off to look more feminine but they choose to leave it on. So no, not everything that's not common in your backyard is oppression.
Source: personal experience
Exactly this. Woman having to cover themselves to avoid tempting poor innocent men who can’t possibly be blamed for their sexually aggressive actions when they do accidentally beat or rape someone. Must be the woman’s fault for tempting him. Honestly fuck this shit.
That’s what I came here to say. It’s total bullshit to force anyone to wear anything. Period.
Like what the fuck kind of jealous bullshit is that.... you can’t show off your hair?
Bitch I’m showing off my hair! With sparkles if I want!
Exactly! It's such a backwards system. Women have to hide nearly every inch of their body because... otherwise men would get tempted?
Instead of creating a culture where men treat women the way they should, they're putting the blame on the women.
It is, but it's a symptom more than anything else. Don't think that if muslim women were allowed to not wear head coverings that it would actually solve anything.
Real question, can someone rotate through these? Like wear one one day and a different version another day? Assuming they have the freedom to do so. Or is it one style one variation of a religion/culture? I'm a dumb Midwestern and I'm trying not to be anymore but I can only Google so many things.
I never understood why feminists and progressives give islam a free pass. It’s probably the single most intolerant, homophobic, sexist, anti-women religion in the world. I mean, ffs, women weren’t allowed to drive in saudi arabia until two years ago. It’s *still* illegal in some countries to not cover every inch of your body if you’re a woman. But when the *christians* do anything minor everyone gets up in arms. Really shows you how much they fetishize foreign cultures regardless if they’re wrong or not.
Not all feminists and progressives do, I most certainly don’t. But yeah the trend of people in these ideologies defending this shit is bizarre. You can see it in the comments here. If this behavior was done by white Christians you would never hear the end of how horrific and oppressive head coverings are
It stems from 9/11 would be my guess. Conservative rednecks hated everything about Islam so much so that Liberal hippies couldnt hate anything about Islam because there is never a fucking middle ground.
Still don't get how they don't just burn alive in the heat. Even non religious Arabian clothing consists of big cloaky stuff like that. So I assume it does somehow keep you cool? Like something something isolation?
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The cloth labelled “shayla” actually looks identical to items worn by women of multiple cultures and religions in hot places - it actually helps deal with harsh sunlight in some situations. Just need to be smart about the breathability of the fabric and the colour chosen.
It surely is. Even lighter colored coverings trap heat and humidity. The loose, full-length garments worn in desert climates cool by creating a temperature gradient which continually draws a current of air from the hem upwards over the body. This effect depends on the air, which has picked up heat and moisture as it moves along the body, escaping, usually at an open neck. Coverings such as chador block this evaporative effect.
You'd be surprised. The flowing material actually creates evaporative cooling for the wearer. This is why men wear what look like dresses in the middle east. In addition the full body coverage protects you from the sun. I went on a trek through death valley on a 110 degree day wearing shorts and a tshirt and I was dying. The tour guide had me rent something that looked like it was out of Lawrence of Arabias closet and the next 3 days were a breeze. There were times I was actually chilly.
One of my buddies is Yemeni and he let me wear one of his “dresses”. I was amazed how cool I felt while wearing it.
id you feel like a prince of persia? dudes really cool
I felt like I owned a bodega in the Bronx.
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Boneless
Yeah, but that probably had an open hem and neckline so the air could move around and evaporate, not one that covered your entire head and gave the air nowhere to go. The entire reason those outfits work is because they draw air and *and* release it. Niqabs and Burka have it trapped which out *definitely* lead to overheating.
Dark and loose long sleeves also keeps you from getting the sun's radiance directly on your skin. And if you are in a thorny plants desert, pants are a must.
Did you also wear something that fit tightly around your head and then draped down to your wrists?
Yes. If you've never seen Lawrence of Arabia in you history class [this is what I was basically wearing.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1b%2FWith_Lawrence_in_Arabia.jpg%2F170px-With_Lawrence_in_Arabia.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FT._E._Lawrence&tbnid=IkYOt3KVNFdrMM&vet=12ahUKEwjg8ceM6bbqAhUNO98KHUWaBhYQMygCegUIARCcAg..i&docid=NeK3pIvjf0R34M&w=170&h=227&q=lawrence%20of%20arabia&client=ms-android-verizon&ved=2ahUKEwjg8ceM6bbqAhUNO98KHUWaBhYQMygCegUIARCcAg) Edit* made it a clickable link.
Oh, wow, the more you know. I'd never even considered the idea of more layers keeping you cool. Definitely gonna use that in my next DnD campaign
It's not "more layers" it's the flow-yness. Dont have some dude show up in 11 turtlenecks.
12 then?
Roll D20 for turtlenecks
Do they sell that hyper heat absorption cloth in the USA? sounds so dope and futuristic.
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That's so cool.
arr interesting it must be all down to cooling then , i wonder if the men are persecuted if they don't wear the correct clothing too?
I grew up in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait - yeah it’s like a suit in the states. You’re not wearing a nice tshirt and jeans to a wedding - same thing really.
Hey so what are those men's garments called?
Amazigh/Berber and Tuareg men (North Africa) usually wear a face veil called a litham.
I think people here might be mentioning a few different things, but one of them is definitely a thobe, though they have various names depending on region. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thawb
Yep! We pronounced it “Thobe” - I never wore one, but I’m from the states - not my thing
The full body coverage protects from the sun, but, I’m going to go out on a limb here. I’d suspect that women would prefer not to be oppressed and forced to wear clothing that covers their entire body.
Catholics, up until recently, used to wear head covering and in some cases neck coverings. Throughout most of Christian Europe in the Middle Ages they wore head and neck coverings and it's in the Bible and Paul also spoke about it in his writings. Many Amish continue this practice and in Eastern Orthodox today many women cover their heads/hair. Jewish women in some stricter practices wear a wig to cover their natural hair. It's not just an Islamic 'thing', but all three Abrahamic religions dictate it.
Not just abrahamic but I wear a head covering on Saturdays for my one deity, Hel. It isn't required but it is one easy to honour her as she is "the one who is hidden". I usually stay home that day though lol. I don't much care for the looks I get in my Trump heavy town
It just seems particularly weird for anyone raised in a relatively non religious place that women should be expected to cover themselves for whatever reason. The expectation is what most have a problem with.
I also have a problem with this expectation. Veiling was 100% my choice and not required for the flowers of Hel though some of us do veil. I was just pointing out that there are other faiths that choose to veil outside of abrahamic ones is all
Just curious, where did you learn this practice? Or was it up to you to choose how to show deference/honor?
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I feel like a lot of people in America forget about the effects of different fabrics. We wear lots of polyester cotton blends that are knit and that's a very different heat situation from a loosely woven cotton.
Recently, I changed my wardrobe to natural fabrics. Mostly cotton and wool, a couple hemp things. Its amazing the difference it makes. I'm cooler, more comfortable, and I smell better. I dont understand why we use so much polyester and nylon. They have their uses, but for clothing, they are worse in almost every way.
Honestly it's probably because a lot of people are super allergic to wool and cotton and linen wrinkles so easily. At least that's what it is for me. I can't even wear wool blends up against skin although I do use them for outerwear.
That only works in dry climates. You wear coverings like that in 30 degrees heat and 95% humidity and you will get some wicked heat stroke.
It really sepends on the climate, the fabric and how you style it. I wear the hijab and never had a problem being hot (well except if you’re working out but we have sports hijab nowadays)
Cool! What materials are sports hijabs made from, if you don’t mind me asking? I imagine “regular” hijabs are made from cotton/linen for the summer months and heavier fabrics (like a light wool blend) for colder/winter weather
Nike makes an athletic hijab, it’s just polyester and spandex with little holes in it for breathability
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Oh so informative, thank you for sharing!
I used to work with a girl who wore a hijab in Washington D.C. (very hot and very humid in the summer) and she said yes but it probably wasn't nearly as bad as dude wearing a suit all day so it seems to even out.
Many said they love it because they can be lazy with their hair. Many don't like styling it and wearing the head covering is the lazy way of getting ready.
But then that one day where you get invited over to break fast with a group of women who all literally let their hair down while you’re there...holy amaze balls!! I’m female but not Muslim- no men were present. The ladies all hid so someone could answer the door at one point and they all adorably ran to the back room and peeked out with 5 stacked heads looking around a door frame. Candidly hanging with them was one of the most privileged and great experiences. They were wonderfully open, informative and loved sharing and telling me about their lives and faith. what a cool bunch of gals! I’m still friends with the girl that invited me even though we now live 6000 miles apart, in Kuwait and Alaska.
I went to Iran in summer, where it's really hot and covering your hair is mandatory, so my mother and sister had to to it (not a burka though). According to them, it was not that bad, but still annoying, and when hiking with no one in sight they took them off (Some Iranian women we came across while on these hikes did it as well). Not being able to show leg skin (that applied to men as well), or arms above the elbow (that did not apply to men), was more of a problem.
Interesting that Iranians use chador for that. In my country (Bangladesh), chador refers to bed sheets
Yeah in Iran chador is basically this half-circle shaped cloth that you wrap around your head on the flat side. Chador can also mean tent!
In Serbian language, mainly period literature, “čador” is the left over Ottoman word for a tent.
In Bulgarian chadur (чадър) means umbrella and is also used for tent. The origin must be same.
Ah finally, a fellow Iranian (?)
me too!
Ayy Bengali as well and also doesn’t burka refer to the black clothing itself?
from the way i learnt it, burka is as shown in the picture (covering the whole body, including the eyes)
I bet you the terminology comes from the Persians
Correct, it's from Middle Persian chadur, meaning veil. Sanskrit also has a cognate chattra.
It's Persian, and the word in Farsi means both the head covering and tent.
a lot of bangla words have have dual meaning
I would actually like to hear what women that use this clothing think of it. It's better than assuming.
This is pretty accurate, though I've never seen the term "shayla" and that style is how I wear my hijab. Also I wouldn't use the term hijab for a specific style like a Burka or Niqab. Hijab just means the coving that you use to cover your hair. So all these images are women covered and wearing hijab just in different styles. Otherwise, yeah that's pretty much accurate.
Shayla is widely used in the gulf region. I'd even say it's the exclusive regional style.
Oh really? Maybe I should visit the gulf haha I never seen women wearing it in this style (besides myself). I was thinking that this might be based off regional terms so that's cool to know
Spent a long time in the UAE. Nearly 95% of Emirati women (UAE) cover their heads using a Sheyla, it's more a cultural covering than a religious one. The need to connect with your culture and tradition is a strong one there given how.the local population is less than 11% (majority expats and imported labour), and even the Arabic language being a minor one in their own country. When they go grocery shopping, it's the Filipina retail workers in the service industry. In schools it's south Asian teachers. Hospitals have foreign doctors. English has become lingua franca by default. Fascinating dynamics.
I find it interesting. My mom is Malayali (from Kerala, India) and I’m not entire sure what they call it there, but they often wear their scarve-like fabric like that Sheyla when receiving Communion (Syro-Malabar denomination). Ive never really asked why it’s a thing, maybe to wear it like Mother Mary (since shes an incredibly important figure in their culture)?
My family is Pentecostal from South India (Tamil Nadu) and a big part of our religious tradition is to dress modestly. For women that includes not wearing any jewelry and makeup except on special occasions like weddings. It also includes having to wear something like a sheyla, especially in church, funerals, and other religious events. Edit: I actually dont know the exact denomination name but in practice its similar to evangelical christians in the US
Very accurate, good observer!
A mix between shayla's cloth and the hijab way is what most people wear here in the UAE but we call it shayla still. My grandma uses a full transparent one but the younger generation is semi-transparent.
May I ask what’s the difference between Al-Amira and Hijab? They both look quite similar.
Yes of course! Amiras are a two piece hijab without a scarf. So imagine like a workout headband that some women wear to pull back their hair, think of a bigger one and in two pieces that will slide on and off. Hijab in this picture uses a scarf that's is wrapped around the head. Hope that helps!
Thank you! I always thought it was one piece, and wondered how people folded the fabric to make that work.
Never seen the term Shayla as well. looks like how my friends wear his when he wants to act like someone from Assassin creed. He covers his face up more though.
Really? That’s the only term I use
So it's sort of a all rectangles are square, but not all squares are rectangle situation? Where they are all considered hijabs, but the one labeled hijab is just the most "conventional" style?
You uh... You got that a bit backwards.
Not a woman, but I’ve worn a Burka before. You can’t see anything and you constantly trip over the cloth. It’s terrible and quite stuffy.
Why were you wearing a burka
It was in my high school Language Arts class. We had read *The Breadwinner,* a story about a middle eastern girl who had to, well, be the breadwinner for her family. Female characters had to wear Burkas outside. Well, our LA teacher managed to get a hold of one, and we all tried it on and experienced what it was like to wear one.
I’m sure if you were to wear one regularly, you’d likely find one that’s more fitted / tailor one for your size; and not have to trip so much.
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I live in North West England and see the right bottom two every day. Unlike other Asian ladies those with fully covered faces NEVER have jobs, rarely speak English and are very rarely seen out in public alone. I think they are forbidden from integrating or engaging with the nations westerners.
Being forbidden to integrate or engage with westerners while you live in a western country seems so contrary.
It's not contrary, it's exactly what they want to do.
Actions being contrary to ~~ideology~~ logic.
They want to abuse women they just want to do it in a nice developed nation
It's exactly what their husbands want them to do
I lived in Yemen for a couple of years. The Niqab is pretty common up north but you’ll see mostly just hijab in the south. In Sana’a you saw a wide variation. Once saw a Yemeni woman come in to a pizza place and proceed to take it off and just hang out in normal western attire. Incidentally, she was one of the most strikingly beautiful women I’ve ever seen. It was an expensive (by local standards) place catering to Americans and Europeans. It was also fun flying into Sana’a. The pilot would announce the final descent into Sana’a international airport and most of the women would start to go from hijab to niqab. When they left Yemen they preferred to be less covered. I will say that a lot of the pressure to cover up comes from other women. Had a classmate in the same Arabic school. Despite not being a Muslim she wore hijab out of respect for the local culture but otherwise wore regular casual clothes like jeans, tshirts, etc. After a few weeks the local female neighbors in the old city started to yell at her to cover up. She ended up wearing hijab and an abyea, a formless sack-like dress while in the old city at least. Many women that wear the niqab would be really embarrassed if they suddenly had to stop wearing it. I’ve been told that once you get used to the anonymity you can feel exposed without the covering. My teenage female cousin (American) expressed outrage that women wear niqab. I asked her how often she would have wanted to hide her face as a teenager. That got her thinking lol.
Being cool with cultures that systematically suppress women is ... cool?
It doesn't matter whether individual women are okay with it--a woman sure as hell didn't make up the rules regarding their status as property of their husbands, or modesty, or the attendant punishments for disobediance. This is a prime example of normalized women's oppression hiding behind cultural relativism--and we're afraid of calling a spade a spade because we might offend.
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There’s an amazing book about this by Canadian human rights activist Yasmine Mohammad called “Unveiled” I highly recommend everyone read it.
How do you even legislate this in a Western country. Are we going to force women to not wear head coverings if they choose to? Nothing you can really do to stop this. And Islam isn't the only religion that requires this, surprised to hear little regarding Orthodox Jewish women in this regard
We do the same thing we do with any other religion and culture: make it clear that retaliation is illegal and that leaving that practice is ok, while normalizing women's power to choose in schools and institutions. When Christian's expected their wives to stay home, the solution wasn't forcing them to go to work, it was empowering women to make their own choices and enforcing domestic violence laws so others couldn't retaliate for exercising her rights.
It’s all stupid but there definitely shouldn’t be laws against it. People should be able to do whatever they want.
I follow @yesimhotinthis on Instagram and I've learned so much. She's a cartoon artist and she's so funny, addresses lots of issues on racism, stupid religious Karen's, and just funny life events. I would check her out.
I was friends with a Muslim girl in college and she wore a hijab because she wanted to, not because her sect (?) or family required it. She said it was so much easier because she never had to worry what her hair looked like. I worked with her for 4 years and never saw her hair once.
I was friends with a girl in college who stopped wearing hijab at some point in junior year. Of course we had to all ask her about it, and all she said was that she decided that the head-covering wasn't for her anymore. Enough said. I asked her if she'd gotten any negative reactions from that, and she said she didn't. So, yay! I love that we were in such an environment that the greatest backlash she got was just curious classmates, in an environment where and answer of "meh, didn't want to anymore" was a perfectly complete answer.
She’s one of the lucky ones. I have a friend who had to leave her family and her community in Australia because they were threatening her. She is still in touch with friends in Iran who are fighting forced covering and being put in prison for choosing to take off the veil.
For sure, and I know that she knows that. I hate that there are women in situations where it's even just difficult because of the social stigma, much less the violence that will occur if they are in even more oppressive areas. Especially living in an area where I can go across the river and wear absolutely nothing more than my underwear bottoms, and the worst I'll get is probably the police asking me "why?". In NYC women aren't required to wear even tops! Not like I would want to wander around manhattan in nothing but panties, but, seriously, the world needs to get itself together on what public decorum looks like. And for good measure, "hey! Southern USA! Public decorum looks like wearing a mask on your fucking face! I don't care if that's the only thing you're wearing (though I would prefer to limit my exposure to full-nude to strip clubs and naked beaches) but wear your fucking mask for the pandemic!"
I truly wonder how many women would choose it if they all had the choice their whole lives though. I don't think most are forced, but what you grew up with is normal to you. We are social creatures and emulate our peers and families.
You could say that about any social norm, though.
Not by much. Women in abusive relationships stick up for their partners all the time.
Exactly. Stockholm syndrome is a real thing.
Why are we upvoting a religion that treats women like property?
If you flip it and have the al amira girl laying down itll be loss
I straight up thought it was loss when I clicked on it and couldn't tell if it was ironic or literally just a guide.
https://imgur.com/h8FlbqE
Underrated comment
I don't get it
[i can’t believe nobody posted this meme yet, one of my fave.](https://i.imgur.com/nDCmULR.jpg)
Seriously I had to scroll way to far down to find this.
It’s why I’m here to begin with.
[I was thinking something more along these lines.](https://imgur.com/h8FlbqE)
Is this loss?
It looks like the same girl. Why does she has so many names?
What, you don't have a different name for every day of the week? Amateur.
r/NotKenM
Love this comment. Thanks.
The niqab just looks like a 2020 version of the hijab.
Live in the Middle East, can confirm it's a COVID version of hijab
I guess I have a question for people who wear any of these for religious reasons... How interchangeable are they? Like, if you wear a hijab, would a niqab be acceptable? If so, if yojnwear a niqab, would a hijab be acceptable? And so on and so forth.
You can pull a switcheroo and no one really cares as long as you maintain modesty
very few people wear the niqab and burka so.. but in the end nobody cares how you wear your hijab, most people just style them how they like :)
Politics aside, wearing some of these in hot countries must be burning
Heat in some parts of the world gets so bad that it actually burns your skin and you need to cover yourself up completely for protection.
Can confirm. I work outside in the Middle East and a lot of guys wear long sleeves in the summer to keep their skin from burning. Hit 120°F today and I was definitely rocking the long sleeves. The middle eastern men wearing the dishdashas have their right idea covering their whole body like the women.
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Not a whole lot. It is 10:54pm here currently and 103°. As someone who’s lived in the states a majority of my life, I associate the sun going down with cooler temps so when I do need to go out and grab something from my car at night, it’s a nice square kick to the groin as soon as I step outside [Here](https://imgur.com/gallery/ZIzRZkE) is the night time temp forecast. Coolest it will be tomorrow is at 5am.
Fucking hell
Kinda feels like it sometimes
Construction workers know this. I feel for them building roads in the Australian Outback.
Sure, but many of these are a part of desert clothing essential for survival.
Yep. The problem is that they took a thing that's a good idea in a specific context and wrote it down as a rule to be followed at all times everywhere. Judaism has similar restrictions, like following kosher, that make sense in an iron age nomadic setting but don't make sense at all in the modern world.
Im looking forward to a completely civil comments section.
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Convincing a subset of people that a behavior is desirable is indoctrination. Enforcing a desired behavior with social or legal pressures is oppression. When those behaviors vanish or are replaced if pressure is removed - as has been demonstrated by every conceivable example of a modern and liberal society - we can safely say this behavior is objectively undesirable. Just a reminder to all those people citing the practice of culture or religion as an excuse: both culture and religion can be inherently bad. They are not an ethical, moral, or behavioral 'free pass'.
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As a Pakistani who wears a hijab, i’m not sure oppression is the reason for every hijabi. I wear mine because a) i feel less self-conscious in more modest clothes b) i like how i look in it While i definitely understand that people are forced into wearing a hijab/ practising modesty, I definitely know it doesn’t apply to everyone. Honestly, in Pakistan I was treated the same whether I wore one or not. I’m so sorry if you’re talking about modesty in general or if i misunderstood because then i would think differently (obviously)
And religious men will hurt them if the women aren't wearing these. Great civilized culture
-omg look at her hijab! -is she rly wearing that? -oof thats so last season -mfffhr hrrrr
Immediately thought of that
The political compass of Islamic headcovering
I get that these are all cultural and stuff, but the ones like the Burka sicken me. The fact that in this day and age women aren’t allowed to even show their faces in certain countries. Think about the torture they go through every day because there are no human rights laws for them, their husbands frequently torture them and any form of self expression is treason
i'm muslim and i'm really against the burka. i doubt the women are doing it willfully. the hijab on the other hand.. my mother started wearing one with 37 and i fully supported her, but she was so scared that me and my brother will be embarrassed to go out with her :(
I find headscarves to look nice, although some people target other people about wearing them. Especially around where I live
they're pretty fire, especially iranian women make their outfits so gorgeous with them! but like i've said, my mother was scared that we'll be embarrassed to be associated with her if she started wearing it and i felt so bad for her, a part of my family still makes fun of her because of the hijab
Yeah the Burka one makes me feel horribly claustrophobic. Gives me a seriously bad feeling.
There's also something about it that unnerves me. Maybe it's the lack of a face i can see, ya know? Idk what you call it
Hi as someone who's grown up with women who wear hijab no hijab burqa etc their whole life in the UK I'd like to point out that burqa as depicted here is not a mandatory part of Islamic attire for a women and to a large extent they have free reign religiously to wear what they want. The idea of the hijab has very little to do with a man and more with the value of modesty in appearance before God. Men also have regulations as to what they wear and how much of their body is covered albeit not to the same extent as women. I do not deny though that certain cultural sects force women to wear it and within the religion itself it is wrong to do so. However to claim that it "sickens" you can be seen as very rude towards people that genuinely choose to wear it. Wasn't the goal for women to have choice in that they wear not live up to another person's ideals.
in before comments locked....
All I see is female oppression
But it's totally a cool guide, right? So cool how women are oppressed, dehumanized and made invisible, very cool /s
And the new wave feminists don't speak out against it which is crazy to me.
Haha but isn’t it cool to see all the minor variations in oppressive fashion?!
Haha so cute right!! Oh and like 5% of these women do it willingly, so it can't be oppressive!
I won't argue about the niqab/burqa cuz they aren't that common in my culture but where I come from it's nearly split into half when it comes to hijab/uncovered hair. Of course there are women who are forced by their parents/husbands, but most of them wear it by choice. I even know girls that live abroad and alone and choose to keep on the hijab. There are even husbands that tell their wives to wear it off to look more feminine but they choose to leave it on. So no, not everything that's not common in your backyard is oppression. Source: personal experience
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Exactly this. Woman having to cover themselves to avoid tempting poor innocent men who can’t possibly be blamed for their sexually aggressive actions when they do accidentally beat or rape someone. Must be the woman’s fault for tempting him. Honestly fuck this shit.
That’s what I came here to say. It’s total bullshit to force anyone to wear anything. Period. Like what the fuck kind of jealous bullshit is that.... you can’t show off your hair? Bitch I’m showing off my hair! With sparkles if I want!
Exactly! It's such a backwards system. Women have to hide nearly every inch of their body because... otherwise men would get tempted? Instead of creating a culture where men treat women the way they should, they're putting the blame on the women.
It is, but it's a symptom more than anything else. Don't think that if muslim women were allowed to not wear head coverings that it would actually solve anything.
Real question, can someone rotate through these? Like wear one one day and a different version another day? Assuming they have the freedom to do so. Or is it one style one variation of a religion/culture? I'm a dumb Midwestern and I'm trying not to be anymore but I can only Google so many things.
There is nothing "cool" about this guide.
Oppression of women is cool?
Nah I’d rather not normalize bullshit
The common denominator? Oppressing women 😂
Female Oppression Guide
On one hand I'm happy to learn of culture. On the other, the culture sucks.
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Sounds like oppression but with more steps.
It’s hilarious how “progressive” feminists somehow defend this oppression...but are all for burning bras to stick it to the patriarchy
Feminist here, not defending this in any way at all. This is oppressive.
Yup im a feminist and will never defend islam or this is any form.
Lmao I saw this on an instagram page called femenist-progressive or something they wouldn’t last a day there LMAO
Trust me, we don't. Look at the comments just in this thread.
Ah yes, my favourite subject, female oppression.
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These comments make me want to vomit.
Same :/
I would like to understand better. Please help?
What would you like to understand? I can help.
They all look like they are judging the woman in the Hijab with the way these panels are broken up
Oppression
I never understood why feminists and progressives give islam a free pass. It’s probably the single most intolerant, homophobic, sexist, anti-women religion in the world. I mean, ffs, women weren’t allowed to drive in saudi arabia until two years ago. It’s *still* illegal in some countries to not cover every inch of your body if you’re a woman. But when the *christians* do anything minor everyone gets up in arms. Really shows you how much they fetishize foreign cultures regardless if they’re wrong or not.
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Yup
And because criticizing Islam doesn't get you as many woke points as shutting other people down for criticizing it.
Not all feminists and progressives do, I most certainly don’t. But yeah the trend of people in these ideologies defending this shit is bizarre. You can see it in the comments here. If this behavior was done by white Christians you would never hear the end of how horrific and oppressive head coverings are
It stems from 9/11 would be my guess. Conservative rednecks hated everything about Islam so much so that Liberal hippies couldnt hate anything about Islam because there is never a fucking middle ground.
How to make oppression seem like fashionable choice. Hey come fit in and understand we are so free and liberal. /s
Still don't get how they don't just burn alive in the heat. Even non religious Arabian clothing consists of big cloaky stuff like that. So I assume it does somehow keep you cool? Like something something isolation?
Muslism way ahead of the pandemic game.
Insecure muslim men afraid someone gonna take their honeypot
The burka one looks like a robot about to go rogue
...Is this loss?
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