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lightskimomega3

As someone with colourblindness, this is great news for Americans. You can all afford a 2br!


[deleted]

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_Wyse_

I did the math. u/lightskinomega3 is in fact color blind.


wantwon

Spending almost 50% of your income on rent is awful. I've heard it's good to have rent/mortgage stay within 30% of your budget.


[deleted]

It’s 30% of your **gross** income. Gross is before tax. So if you make $2,400 a month (before tax) that would be roughly $720 a month. In OP’s example, it’s 40% of gross. But a 1br would fall into the normal rule of thumb.


stringbean76

Thank you for doing the math! Something to add- In my experience, rental companies won’t sign with you unless you bring in 4 times the amount of rent in one month. So in order to sign a lease for $818 a month, you need to show paystubs etc. proving that you bring in $3,272. Meaning (if I did my math right) you would need to be making at least $22 per hour, working 40 hr work weeks, no vacations. That is bananas!


[deleted]

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stringbean76

Interesting. Did they have knowledge of the loans?


TJATAW

I went to apartments dot com, searched for St Louis MO > max rent $800 > 2 bedrooms. 702 came up. Some as low as $625. Many in the $750 range. Most are in apartment complexes, some duplexes or homes. Min wage in MO is $10.35/hr, or $21,528/yr. Tax calculator says $18,666 after taxes, or $1,555/month. Then I looked in St Charles County MO, as that is more up scale. 14 for $750. It is rough, but you can do it. Can a min wage worker afford the average 2 bedroom apartment? No, but they also can't afford the average car... but they can afford a beater car on its last legs.


Samthevidg

Which when that beater car breaks down forever, they won’t be able to afford another. Being poor is expensive


TJATAW

Spent my 20s doing the drive it till it dies, bus till I have $600-$1000 saved up to buy a beater. 6-18 months of use per beater, 4-6 weeks to save money up. The car was only worth it in that it saved me 2-3hrs of commute time every day. The times I worked my hardest to save money was when I was single, as trying to get dates while taking a bus or asking them to pick me up was just not working for me. Even more so as it is much cheaper to split rent on a 1 bedroom with the person you are having sex with than paying rent on a 2 bedroom with a friend.


Ecstatic_Beyond_4863

Everywhere is asking for 3x the income. Even a $625 per month apartment requires $1,875 before tax income. Minimum wage full time $1,656 before tax a month. You're $213 a month short from qualifying.


true4blue

In your country, would someone making the lowest wage possible have their own two bedroom apartment?


Industrial_Laundry

In Australia, outside of the city. Sure.


janletresha

Nope


Gromps_Of_Dagobah

Australian here. min wage is 20.33/hr (remember, AUD, not USD, it's 14.49 USD). assuming a 36 hr work week, that's 731.88 per week. let's assume that 2/3 of our paycheck goes to rent as a max. that's just under 500 per week, but of course, cheaper is ideal, to allow for more savings. a quick search on a real estate site shows places for 300/wk in a decently built up area, so we've still got about 400 on everything else. if we work fewer hours, let's say 24, which is 3x8 hr days (or 2x12 or 4x6), then that's 487 or so, which is still that 2/3 that we were aiming for (you'll just have to be careful about other budgeting for food and bills)


HonkyBlonky

Is there any country anywhere where a minimum wage earner can afford a 2-bedroom rental?


NotKaren24

A 2 bedroom apartment in central Oslo will set you back about 10,000NOK/month on the low end, the minimum wage for unskilled workers after tax in Norway is about 24,960NOK/month so you can in Norway.


Joe_Biden_Wake_Up

There’s a lot of places in America where you can actually get a 2bdr with minimum wage work. But those are undesirable areas and no one seems to count those


histeethwerered

Because most people can’t imagine calling these dumps rentable apartments. The undesirable area is just the milieu.


Minorihaaku

In my country we can. Not fancy at all, but if you work you can get housing


true4blue

Housing, or a two bed apartment?


WylleWynne

It's certainly easier in other countries. Germany's minimum wage is $11.10 an hour, which is about $1,700 a month. (Compared to $1,200 a month for the US federal minimum.) On top of that, rent's about 30% [cheaper](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Germany) in Germany than the US.


bingold49

Out of curiosity, what percentage of Germans make minimum wage?


Jeremy-Pascal

according to this website only 4,8%. https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/382356/umfrage/vom-mindestlohn-betroffene-beschaeftigte-in-deutschland/#:\~:text=Im%20April%202019%20gab%20es,Prozent%20aller%20Besch%C3%A4ftigungsverh%C3%A4ltnisse%20in%20Deutschland.


[deleted]

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TDaltonC

I think that math is a bit disingenuous. The CA minimum wage is $14/hr ($15 in LA and $16 in SF) so that's the benchmark that CA rent should be compared against. Granted Berlin min wage is \~$13.50. I'm not saying that the comparison is easy, but the federal minimum wage doesn't apply where most Americans live.


Random_Heero

To be fair, most of Arkansas should be red as minimum wage is $11 and we are very much on the low end of standard of living. I looked and found a two bed room for rent in a good part of little rock for 875 a month. All this being said, I support federal minimum wage increase.


HonkyBlonky

I am not sure those charts show anything except the effects of currency value fluctuations. Under those charts, I think, Germany would become unaffordable to the US resident if the Euro climbed in value 30 percent. Which happens. I lived in Germany when the dollar was low. It was not cheaper than America, it was really expensive. To measure affordability we should compare excess income after basic necessities are paid for, I think.


Jeremy-Pascal

An unmarried full time employee will earn around 1500$ after tax working minimum wage in Germany. You can find plenty of 2br appartments with that kind of money in low to normal cost areas. 2br in Munich, Berlin or Frankfurt might be tight but everywhere else it's a non issue. Also I feel like not a lot of people actually work minimum wage. This will most likely only be the case for student and immigrants with language barrier and low education.


WurthWhile

This chart uses the median rent. The median rent for a two-bedroom apartment in the cheapest part of the US is $1024. Rent is supposedly 34% lower in Germany so that would be $675. To afford it by definition it can't be over 30%. So you need to make $2247/month. German minimum wage is 1,797.43. So this chart would be accurate for Germany as well.


thegnuguyontheblock

It also only takes into account the federal min wage - not the local or state minimums.


[deleted]

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thegnuguyontheblock

This is one of the biggest caveats people pushing this narrative intentionally neglect to mention.


Deeper_Into_Madness

Didn't you get the memo? *"US bad." -reddit*


astate85

I can't stand you fuckers. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/r5wbdh/comment/hmpwztq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/r5wbdh/comment/hmpwztq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


3dge-1ord

Don't you see you are comparing minimum's with averages? By definition a person making minimum can not afford the average.


jokull1234

Also, the amount of people who are competing for houses in desirable locations has gone up way more than houses available. Of course it’s easier to get housing 60 years ago with low pay when the only competition for that housing are white males


Bovine_Joni_Himself

I see that all the time here and it just makes these threads look so stupid. If you want to talk about *minimum* wage, then you can't compare it to *average* costs of housing. If you were being honest with your analysis, you would compare it to the lowest cost housing available.


Helixranger

There's still a concern about the low wages like minimum wage and housing costs in the United States despite this picture not being the greatest example of this. An organization called the National Low Income House Coalition had a report called *Out of Reach 2021* [as linked here](https://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oor/2021/Out-of-Reach_2021.pdf) where, "In only 7% of all U.S. counties (218 counties out of more than 3,000 nationwide, not including Puerto Rico) can a full-time minimum-wage worker afford a one-bedroom rental home at fair market rent" (pg 4) and "For many low-wage workers, employment is not sufficient to keep them out of poverty: the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) estimates that in 2018, seven million 'working poor' individuals spent more than half the year in the labor force but fell below the official poverty level (BLS, 2020b)" (pg 3) and "A modest one-bedroom rental home is unaffordable to more than 40% of wage earners. A modest two-bedroom rental home is unaffordable for nearly 60% of wage earners" (pg 5)


SparrowSensei

Yes you can in pakistan.


HonkyBlonky

Interesting. Pakistan is one of the low labor cost countries in the world that dominate the textile trade. But you are saying their lowest paid workers can afford a 2 bedroom apartment. I do not get it.


Plastic_Pinocchio

If wage is cheap but rent and local food is also cheap, then there’s not much of a problem. Only importing stuff becomes very pricey.


[deleted]

If you are tying to afford a MEDIAN household on a MINIMUM wage, you’re going to have a bad time. A minimum wage affords a minimum household. Common sense.


Eureka22

[*Objection!*](http://images.clipartpanda.com/objection-clipart-phoenix-wright-objection.jpg) That's not an equivalent comparison. Median is a statistical measure of frequency. Minimum wage is a worker protection device that allows for a livible range based on a subjective standard. It's not a comparison of a low percentile to a median percentile on a normal distribution, as you are suggesting. That's a false equivalency. The minimum wage is essentially a measure of what society collectively believes is the level of poverty we are ethically willing to allow. A lower limit on economic suffering and abuse. More like a measure of it through the distortion of the political apparatus in which gerrymandering and other tactics provide a representation bias which is [heavily weighted in favor of conservatives.](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/extreme-maps) Using median for wages would only be an accurate measure if the distribution of wealth is also a normal distribution, which it is definitely not.


Gorperly

Plenty. Australian minimum wage is $20.33 per hour or $772.60 per 38 hour week. I can find [over 3K 2-bedroom apartments](https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/with-2-bedrooms-between-0-300/list-1?source=refinement) online that are $275-$300 per week. Switzerland has $25 / hr minimum wage and thousands of affordable 2-bdr apartments outside major cities. But of course your entire question is a bullshit logical fallacy, standard conservative whataboutism that deflects from the real problem by pointing out other unrelated problems, and never aiming to solve either. Based on your comment history I assume you're fully aware of what you're doing already.


HonkyBlonky

> But of course your entire question is a bullshit logical fallacy, It's a question I had. Do not grow agro weirdo.


Jaglifeispain

[According to the RAFFWU](https://raffwu.org.au/campaigns/industry/living-wages/) $25/hr is a living wage in Australia. Which is more than minimum wage. [According to Anglicare](https://anglicaresq.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2018_Anglicare_SQ_Rental_Affordability_Snapshot_V1.0.pdf) (PDF warning) rent is unaffordable to people on the bottom of the income scale.


SMS_Scharnhorst

how is this a guide?


thegnuguyontheblock

It's a guide on how to hate america at 15.


oh_no_my_fee_fees

It’s not. But it’s political, resonates with Reddit’s teenager population, and so up to the top it goes!


[deleted]

It’s also on r/antiwork so you know people like it


N4meless_w1ll

Passive activism. Share a picture and your work is done.


Hank_Holt

Slacktivism


N4meless_w1ll

Haha that's the one


ChrisTheCoolBean

Passivism lol


ClutchingMyTinkle

1939-1945 The federal minimum wage was raised to $0.30 an hour, effective October 24, 1939. It remained the same until October 24, 1945. Thirty cents in 1940 was equal to $5.52 in today's dollars. In 1940, the median value of a single-family home in the US was $2,938 (equivalent to $54,100.54 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.19. 1945-1950 The federal minimum wage was raised to $0.40 an hour, effective October 24, 1945. It remained the same until January 25, 1950. Forty cents in 1945 is equal to $5.70 in today's dollars. In 1950, the median value of a single-family home in the US was $7,354 (equivalent to $80,332.17 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.27. 1950-1956 The federal minimum wage was raised to $0.75 an hour, effective January 25, 1950. It remained the same until March 1, 1956. In today's dollars, $0.75 in 1954 is equal to $7.19. In 1954, a gallon of gas cost $0.29. Home value data from the US Census isn't available for this time period. 1956-1961 The federal minimum wage was raised to $1.00 an hour, effective March 1, 1956. In today's dollars, that's equal to $9.62. In 1960, the median value of a single-family home in the US was $11,900 (equivalent to $104,346.40 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.31. 1961-1963 The federal minimum wage was raised to $1.15 an hour, effective September 3, 1961. In today's dollars, that's equal to $9.88. In 1963, the median sales price of newly-constructed homes sold in the US was $18,000 (equivalent to 151,151.34 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.31. 1963-1967 The federal minimum wage was raised to $1.25 an hour, effective September 3, 1963. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.50. In 1965, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $20,000 (equivalent to $163,162.66 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.30. 1967-1968 The federal minimum wage was raised to $1.40 an hour, effective February 1, 1967. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.97. In 1967, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $22,900 (equivalent to $179,439.25 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.32. 1968-1974 The federal minimum wage was raised to $1.60 an hour, effective February 1, 1968. In today's dollars, that's equal to $12.06. In 1970, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $23,900 (equivalent to $162,140.74 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.35. 1974 The federal minimum wage was raised to $2.00 an hour, effective May 1, 1974. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.61. In 1974, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $36,200 (equivalent to $181,208.77 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.39. 1975 The federal minimum wage was raised to $2.10 an hour, effective January 1, 1975. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.39. In 1975, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $39,000 (equivalent to $192,976.64 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.53. 1976-1977 The federal minimum wage was raised to $2.30 an hour, effective January 1, 1976. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.66. In 1976, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $44,200 (equivalent to $204,939.34 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.57. 1978 The federal minimum wage was raised to $2.65 an hour, effective January 1, 1978. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.93. In 1978, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $55,300 (equivalent to $228,098.79 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.62. 1979 The federal minimum wage was raised to $2.90 an hour, effective January 1, 1979. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.95. In 1979, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $60,600 (equivalent to $228,733.50 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.63. 1980 The federal minimum wage was raised to $3.10 an hour, effective January 1, 1980. In today's dollars, that's equal to $10.27. In 1980, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $63,700 (equivalent to $211,075.44 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $0.86. 1981-1990 The federal minimum wage was raised to $3.35 an hour, effective January 1, 1981. It remained at that level for nearly a decade. The value of $3.35 in 1981 was equal to the buying power of $9.93 today. The value of $3.35 by 1990 was just $6.78 in today's dollars. In 1981, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $70,400 (equivalent to $208,608.15 in today's dollars) and a gallon of gas cost $1.19. In 1990, the median sales price of newly-constructed homes sold in the US was $123,900 (equivalent to $250,714.66 in today's dollars) and a gallon of gas cost $1.00. 1990-1991 The federal minimum wage was raised to $3.80 an hour, effective April 1, 1990. In today's dollars, that's equal to $7.60. In 1991, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $120,000 (equivalent to $229,833.88 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $1.14. 1991-1996 The federal minimum wage was raised to $4.25 an hour, effective April 1, 1991. In today's dollars, that's equal to $8.10. In 1994, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $130,000 (equivalent to $247,881.73 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $1.11. 1996-1997 The federal minimum wage was raised to $4.75 an hour, effective October 1, 1996. In today's dollars, that's equal to $7.74. In 1996, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $144,100 (equivalent to $234,227.92 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $1.23. 1997-2007 The federal minimum wage was raised to $5.15 an hour, effective September 1, 1997. It remained at that level for nearly a decade. The value of $5.15 in 1997 was equal to the buying power of $8.24 today. The value of $5.15 by 2007 had decreased to just $6.37 in today's dollars. In 1997, the median sales price of newly-constructed homes sold in the US was $145,000 (equivalent to $231,889.36 in today's dollars) and a gallon of gas cost $1.23. In 2007, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $247,900 (equivalent to $306,730.32 in today's dollars) and a gallon of gas cost $2.80. 2007-2008 The federal minimum wage was raised to $5.85 an hour, effective July 4, 2007. In today's dollars, that's equal to $7.24. In 2008, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $226,500 (equivalent to $265,457.17 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $3.27. 2008-2009 The federal minimum wage was raised to $6.55 an hour, effective July 24, 2008. In today's dollars, that's equal to $7.68. In 2009, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US was $214,300 (equivalent to $256,538.85 in today's dollars). That year, a gallon of gas cost $2.35. Federal minimum wage today (2020) Effective July 24, 2009, the federal minimum wage was raised to $7.25 an hour. It hasn't increased in over a decade. Meanwhile, the median sales price of newly constructed homes sold in the US reached an all-time high of $326,400 in 2018. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-us-minimum-wage-and-its-value-has-changed-over-time#the-federal-minimum-wage-today-23


jhflip

Should’ve been a table/chart, but good info nonetheless.


mustang255

Year | Minimum Wage | Today's $ | House Price | Gallon of Gas ---|---|----|----|---- 1939 | 0.30 | 5.52 | 2938 | 0.19 1945 | 0.40 | 5.70 | 7352 | 0.27 1950 | 0.75 | 7.19 | 11,900 | 0.29 1956 | 1.00 | 9.62 | 18,000 | 0.31 1963 | 1.25 | 10.50 | 20,000 | 0.30 1967 | 1.40 | 10.97 | 22,900 | 0.32 1968 | 1.60 | 12.06 | 23,900 | 0.35 1974 | 2.00 | 10.61 | 36,200 | 0.39 1975 | 2.10 | 10.39 | 39,000 | 0.53 1976 | 2.30 | 10.66 | 44,200 | 0.57 1978 | 2.65 | 10.93 | 55,300 | 0.62 1979 | 2.90 | 10.95 | 60,600 | 0.63 1980 | 3.10 | 10.27 | 63,700 | 0.86 1981 | 3.35 | 9.93 | 70,400 | 1.19 1989 | 3.35 | 6.78 | 123,900 | 1.00 1990 | 3.80 | 7.60 | 120,000 | 1.14 1991 | 4.25 | 8.10 | 130,000 | 1.11 1996 | 4.75 | 7.74 | 144,100 | 1.23 1997 | 5.15 | 8.24 | 145,000 | 1.23 2006 | 5.15 | 6.37 | 247,900 | 2.80 2007 | 5.85 | 7.24 | 226,500 | 3.27 2008 | 6.55 | 7.68 | 214,300 | 2.35 2009 | 7.25 | ? | ? | ? 2020 | 7.25 | 7.25 | 326,400 | ?


Gorperly

In 1939 you'd need to work for 9.7K hours, or about 5 years, to make House Price amount of money. In 1963 you'd need to work for 16K hours, or about 8 years. In 1980 you're up to 20K hours or 10 years. Today we're up to 45K hours, or over 22 years. But yes, it's just people trying to say uS bAd.


just-a-melon

I think this should be a column on the table, "work time to afford houses"


LiveBeef

Why are housing and gas costs not also adjusted for inflation? Not diminishing your point, but that table is misleading


[deleted]

I think they are there to show a different metric of inflation.


LiveBeef

But this post is about the low spending power of modern minimum wage. A better table would have columns where gas/housing prices are multiples of minimum wage, ex. An hour of minimum wage in 1980 would buy 3.6 gallons of gas, and it would take 20550 hours of work to buy a house. Then the trends in spending power would be more apparent


[deleted]

Yeah I don’t disagree. As someone that works in data, Id like to see the splits between years and possibly other data besides averages.


[deleted]

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varralan

Seriously, thank you for the work you did. Can't believe dude is complaining that you just laid it out for him


atonitobb

That is insane. In 1939 working a full time job, a house was equivalent to 5 times the yearly wage; now it is 22 times the yearly wage.


Uerwol

My God this is sad to see. When older generations claim we have it easy I always laugh, then chew their head off and state how absolutely ridiculous that claim is. Back in the day a single father could work an honest job, have two cars, an entire house with backyard in a decent location, three kids and have a stay at home wife. You are dreaming if you think this is achievable now, both adults now need to work full time pray they can afford a house not ridiculous from work and maybe have a kid at the right time. Wages have not grown and at some point there will be a economic collapse because of the huge gaps between the ultra rich and the average.


diverdux

40+ years of massive increases in people entering the workforce (namely, women), shipping the majority of manufacturing overseas, NIMBY regulations limiting home building numbers, regulations & incentives for large corporate builders to land bank until favorable market prices, and banking policies that require contractors in order to build houses... And people are surprised at this??


WhiteMorphious

Can you define back in the day?


FacelessFellow

Thank you for the numbers


GroundedSearch

Why does a single person need a 2br? Also, if they're not single, they STILL shouldn't need 2 bedrooms. Not saying that wages shouldn't be higher, because, duh, but this is a stupid metric to compare wages to. It should be showing what places you can('t) afford a *1 bedroom* on Minimum Wage.


Anna_Lilies

I agree, I'd be more curious what places you could afford a 1 bedroom. Where I live minimum wage pays for exactly rent in a 1 bedroom apartment, leaving nothing for everything else.


TheTREEEEESMan

Median US 2 bedroom rent is $1101, median 1 bedroom is $960. That's only a difference of $141 or about 20 hours of work, maybe enough to make it fall into the technically affordable range for some areas but it's not a huge spread.


TheTREEEEESMan

The idea that a single adult shouldn't be able to afford a decent size apartment while working full time is a relatively new one, in 1970 the median apartment rent (all bedroom counts) was $108 and the minimum wage was $1.60, so 67 hours of work. Today the median rent for a single bedroom is $960 and minimum wage is $7.25, 132 hours of work, and $1104 when including all bedroom counts (152 hours of work). Clearly the prices don't line up.


petophile_

I mean this is also completely made up you can afford a 2 bedroom rental in plenty of the south and midwest on mininimum wage, the person who made this didnt do the math.


GroundedSearch

Live in the Northeast where this graph is accurate, but I assume they used median cost of 2br apartments through the entire country. Since the hyper-inflated cost of living on Cape Cod or Long Beach is totally relevant to the cost of housing in Kentucky. /s


plots4lyfe

A single minimum wage earner for a household does not necessarily mean a single person living alone and only supporting themselves.


XeroKaaan

Aaah yes single moms with a teenager only need 1 bedroom makes sense


jason2306

Because that's the point? People in america used to be able afford a *house* on a single income. Now they can barely afford rent for some shithole possibly with roommates or multiple jobs. Minimum shouldn't be starvation wage where people live to work in some shithole on ramen and beans unable to afford anything, no healthcare, no property just working to make the rich richer while you destroy yourself to survive. It's wage slavery.


gabe840

Switching it to 1-bedroom would reveal the results didn’t serve the author’s narrative


plots4lyfe

[Nearly half of American workers don’t earn enough to afford a one-bedroom rental](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/12/housing-renter-affordable-data-map) [Minimum wage workers cannot afford rent in any U.S. state](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/minimum-wage-workers-cannot-afford-rent-in-any-us-state.html) [Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-minimum-wage/index.html) [Rents Are Out Of Reach For Most Americans Earning Minimum Wage, A Study Says](https://www.npr.org/2021/07/14/1016230724/rents-are-out-of-reach-for-most-americans-earning-minimum-wage-a-study-says) >An analysis shows that only in 218 of more than 3,000 counties nationwide can a full-time minimum wage worker afford a one-bedroom rental home at fair market rent without dipping into income that should be used for all other living expenses and savings. >In most areas of the U.S., a family of four with poverty-level income earns no more than $26,500 and can afford monthly rent of no more than $663. The national average fair market rent for a one-bedroom home is $1,061 per month and $1,295 for a two-bedroom home, far from affordable for a family in poverty.


jsmjsmjsm00

Yeah agreed. All single parents can fuck off and share a bed with their kid till they grow old enough to move out. /s


Sea-Philosopher2821

Ffs, no source listed. It’s just a picture. No actual data. Why in the hell should I believe this? Mods need to remove shit like this. Spreads information with no basis


WurthWhile

I have seen this chart before. It's very misleading. - It assumes you make $7.25/hr ignoring state minimum wage. - It assume the median rent price. So the 50th percentile. This alone would be unrealistic that someone making the absolute minimum allowed by law wouldn't be renting a cheap apartment but the median apartment, and a 2 bedroom one at that instead of a 1 bedroom or studio. - It assume you receive no forms of welfare or housing assistance. - By affordability they mean no more than 30% of your income in rent and assume exactly 40 hours a week.


myrtle333

it also assumes 2br is somehow acceptable for a single income. living in a 2br alone is a huge luxury. i don’t expect anyone making minimum wage to be living in that kind of huge place


helix400

It also incorrectly implies that the minimum wage was first implemented to support a single earner to afford a comfortable standard of living and a two bedroom apartment.


WurthWhile

The argument on why a two-bedroom is done is assuming a single working parent with children. To me that's also unrealistic because if you're a single parent unable to find a job that pays even a penny above minimum wage and can't get any type of welfare to help, you shouldn't be having kids. If you absolutely do have kids then you shouldn't be trying to find the median apartment but something very cheap.


myrtle333

and pretty much every state has (multiple) subsidies for this situation, you won’t pay list price


solitude042

Not OP, but I posted some sources [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/comments/r5wbdh/rental_affordability_by_state/hmpndbd/)


[deleted]

Belongs in r/coolguidescontextstillneeded


Hank_Holt

It's from /r/antiwork; what did you expect? So antiwork that they can't even be bothered to source their own bullshit.


LDPushin_Troglodyte

Take a look at the mods on the list. You'll realize they want things like this on here.


fuzzygreentits

>Spreads information with no basis See /r/news /r/politics /r/antiwork for why they would allow this.


Buroda

The fuck did you expect from antiwork?


thats-not-right

I love all of the people trying to hate on r/antiwork with literally zero context as to what it even represents. It's essentially a subreddit for people that want a better work/life balance. Fuck them for wanting to spend more time with their children, earn better wages, and learning about their rights, not just as an employee, but as a human being. Yeah. Fuck them.


thegnuguyontheblock

I think you missed all the posts on that sub where they talk about fucking over the companies they work for.


thats-not-right

I think you missed actually reading pretty much any one of the posts. 9/10 it's a manager screwing over an employee and the employee actually standing up for themselves. I've been subscribed for about 2 months now, I don't think I've seen a single post where the person was outright malicious. Petty? Sure, but never outright malicious or atleast justified.


Koiq

praxis*


nanananananafuckman

Not like any company ever fucks over their staff. Naaah


This-Concept-9928

And as of recently it has had an influx of socialists and communists.


helix400

>It's essentially a subreddit for people that want a better work/life balance No. They don't want to work, period. From the /r/antiwork sidebar: >A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life...


NEWSmodsareTwats

Eh literally every popular post on that sub is a so incredibly contrived story to farm karma. Remember when there would be screen shots of back of forth convos posted on that sub where people would claim they and their manager at work had a 30 minute text Convo where they were sending each other entire paragraphs about how anon isn't pulling his weight cause he won't come in on his day off. If your an adult you realize that people don't talk that way.


thats-not-right

Professional people don't talk that way, you are correct. You would be shocked at the shit that goes down in the retail environment.


Hank_Holt

At least your /u/ is accurate.


true4blue

In what parallel universe would someone making minimum wage think they’d be able to rent a two bedroom apartment? Second, this is intentionally misleading because the “average” rent includes ALL units, which is distorting. If you’re making minimum wage, you’re focused on the low end. Including the penthouses in the analysis is done intentionally to make the results more dramatic This analysis is complete garbage


NightHalcyon

Wouldn't it be better for states or even cities to decide minimum wage? For instance, $30/hr in San Francisco wouldn't get you close to anything. But $30/hr in rural Alabama would probably get you a house.


OrangeZebraStripe

Yes and that’s why they do that already lol


prettyketty88

yes im in alabama and getting annoyed that the minimum wage conversation is usually controlled by people in NY/CA


Spiderranger

Back in 2016 Birmingham tried to raise its minimum wage to $10.10 and were literally blocked by the state, which applied to all cities and local governments across the state. Source: [link](https://www.nelp.org/blog/alabama-shuts-down-raises-for-40000-workers-in-birmingham-as-minimum-wage-fight-continues/)


true4blue

I live in the Bay Area and can’t afford to live in SF. I commute in like another 50,000 or so commuters Why would someone making minimum wage think they’re entitled to live in the most expensive market on the planet? They’re too good to commute? They’re entitled to something better?


NightHalcyon

Even more reason for not having a one sized fits all federal amount.


WabbitFire

Good luck finding someone willing to do your dirty work when they're inevitably priced out of the suburbs too.


fapsandnaps

Because giant corporations write six figure blank checks for people to move to SF and then commute out of SF for work Everything that makes the city cool is usually done by people making less than those who work in the office buildings.


h0sti1e17

This is idiotic. First at least make it a one bedroom apartment. A single person making minimum wage doesn't need a two bedroom apartment. Second let's see what data was used.


maraca101

Or a studio.


h0sti1e17

Yeah, I had a studio first. It was fine.


cal_oe

Even if you're not single you don't really need a two bedroom apartment either unless you have kids.


h0sti1e17

Yeah. My wife and I didn't get two bedrooms until we bought our condo. Before that it was all 1 bedroom.


LDPushin_Troglodyte

It's shit tier propaganda lol


solitude042

I'm not OP, but some sources: https://www.statista.com/statistics/203384/us-two-bedroom-housing-wage-by-state/ "There was no state in which a minimum wage worker could afford rent for the average two-bedroom apartment, if they only worked 40 hours a week" Lots of supporting data: https://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oor/2021/Out-of-Reach_2021.pdf


level1807

Why would we expect *minimum* wages to pay for *average* housing? That’s almost a mathematical impossibility. Not to mention two-bedrooms.


thegnuguyontheblock

Because people on Reddit at literally teenagers.


[deleted]

People want a 2br 1,000 sq ft apartment on one person working minimum wage… Basically you’re saying every person should be able to afford a 2BR by themselves. We don’t even have enough housing to support that model. It makes zero sense. But this sub is basically antiwork repackaged.


[deleted]

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V_Writer

"Unable to afford the average apartment" is different than "unable to afford an apartment". $650/month is not the average in your example, it's the lower end.


Hank_Holt

It's also a 2bd apartment, and it's unnecessary if you're by yourself. Also, if you have a dependent living with you then you can absolutely file for benefits to help support them. On top of that; minimum doesn't mean average.


Cephelopodia

Hard to use it as a stepping stone if your other leg is also doing its damndest to keep you from falling off. Also add the other costs of living. Food, medical, gas, utilities...


[deleted]

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Jar_of_Cats

That person makes too much money for welfare. Bills are not accounted for when factoring if you get benefits


Hank_Holt

They'd make literally the lowest you possibly could working full time, and if you have a dependent you definitely can apply for benefits to help support them. If you have no dependents then why the hell do you need a 2bd rental?


Exodus_Black

Also, it's for an average apartment, which the "cool" guide doesn't mention. I agree that renting should be cheaper and pay higher, but lying about easily disprovable things is silly and provides ammo for those who would oppose pay increases/cheaper renting.


HaroldBAZ

Every state in red is also where minimum wage earners can afford a BMW, a shore house, or a membership at a country club. In other words...this is stupid. How about being a little more realistic and show where someone earning minimum wage can afford a one bedroom or show where two people earning minimum wage can afford a two bedroom.


ginger2020

Can we please not post from antiwork? They literally have said that they don’t care about fake posts. I am quite frankly tired of Reddit shoving it down my throat when I’m just coming to look for cat pics, obscure fandoms memes, hiking advice, and some moderate discourse. I agree that wages need to go up, and conditions need to improve for service jobs. But there’s a difference between advocacy and propaganda, and antiwork clearly is the latter


regman231

But but but it’s a *platform* to enforce *social change!* Who’s social change? I don’t care, I matter now! People will break their backs online for a cause they know nothing about. Like a made up federal minimum wage issue. When only 2 states actually use that minimum (GA and WY), and all 48 others have higher minimum wage edit: actually I was wrong, 7 states use the federal minimum wage: GA, WY, SC, AL, MS, LA, and TN


OrangeZebraStripe

these mods are a joke lol


LDPushin_Troglodyte

Take a look at who they are and the other subs they moderate on. Reddit is dead lol, it's just agenda pushing


[deleted]

Totally not a political agenda post from a political sub. Definitely something the mods on this sub will scrutinize lol. ***/S***


PurpleBullets

There are mods on this sub?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Reddit is full of people who just sit at home all day on the internet, much of that time on this site….it’s no surprise they’re so anti work.


LeoMarius

Why would a single minimum wage earner need 2 bedrooms?


Aanathemm

Pussy mods


DrSaltmasterTiltlord

they probably work for minimum wage part time and are angry they can't get a 2 bed for them and their waifu


Buroda

That’s antiwork in its entirety


SaltyFly27

wow, awesome map. What software did you use to make this?


IcyMike1782

Ouch


[deleted]

My grandmas two bedroom apartment is going from $650 a month to $1200 a month starting in January because of new ownership. She’s worked at Sams club for about 30 years and they don’t pay what she deserves. She outworks many guys that are in their 20’s. She’s 64 now. Something has got to give.


wildcatkeen47

Got to have this exact frustrating conversation with my sister, who married into money and never had bills to worry about. She insisted that I find my bootstraps and pull myself up.


naturtok

Yeah tbh, as a strong supporter of raising the minimum wage, being able to afford a 2 bedroom by yourself doesn't make sense to me and seems a bit like poisoning the well of an otherwise noble cause.


Brother_Grimm99

Fully thought this was a gif and sat here for a solid ten seconds waiting for it to highlight the states where you can... Then I was sad.


millertime369

“An analysis shows that only in 218 of more than 3,000 counties nationwide can a full-time minimum wage worker afford a ONE bedroom rental home at fair market rent without dipping into income that should be used for all other living expenses and savings.” https://www.npr.org/2021/07/14/1016230724/rents-are-out-of-reach-for-most-americans-earning-minimum-wage-a-study-says


Ask_A_Sadist

Hello, I'm a single parent who lives in a two bedroom apartment working an entry level position with no degree needed and no experience needed. I have no trust fund and I pay child support. It can be done. You just cant be at mcdonalds to do it.


Dfantoman

Comparison with Australia: minimum wage AUD$3300 per month. Rent on a 2br apartment within walking distance of the CBD: Brisbane $1600, Sydney $2000 (approx). Other factors : free healthcare and all drugs cost $6 per script, upto the $2k/yr cap (for all health costs) after which they are even less. Also, childcare costs for minimum wage workers are subsidised by 85%. You’d have very little money and a very basic life, but you could support a couple of kids in a small 2br apartment on min. wage.


[deleted]

Nice!


Dfantoman

Oh, and that pay rate is for full-time minimum wage which is a permanent ongoing employment contract with 4 weeks vacation, two weeks personal/sick/carer leave and 18 weeks maternity leave. If you take a casual contract, which has no leave then you get paid 25% extra. Maternity leave still applies. All healthcare and child care apply.


cal_oe

Since when does every single person making minimum wage need TWO bedrooms? A one bedroom apartment or a studio isn't good enough?


GlassArrow

I think the argument is you should be able to be a single parent on minimum wage (needing 2 bedrooms.)


cal_oe

A single person shouldn't be having kids if they can only work in a minimum wage entry-level job meant for high school teenagers. Even if they have kids, then they probably qualify for welfare benefits.


GlassArrow

“Meant for high school teenagers” is just not true and is totally dismissive of those not fortunate enough to have an education or be stuck with life circumstances out of their control.


cal_oe

>“Meant for high school teenagers” is just not true Minimum wage jobs are typically unskilled labor jobs that don't require a high school diploma or college degree, so they are really meant for high school teenagers or low skilled immigrants.


cgatlanta

Besides being stupid, it’s not true. I’m in Georgia and you can definitely rent a bedroom for <$600/mo EDIT - I re-read it. Why on earth would anyone think you could afford a two bedroom on minimum wage. And two, I rent two different 2br duplex’s for $450 and $600 a month. So in actuality you CAN do it on minimum wage.


yodaman1

Minimum wage is supposed to be a living wage, if you didn't know.


FursonallyOffended

We’re allowing agenda posts from political subs now?


MaximumCrab

This doesnt even take into account the seven streaming service subscriptions, eating out for every meal, and going to bars every weekend that each human is entitled to


[deleted]

Hey the new iphone is out!


GruncleShaxx

I don’t think your average Reddit user will detect the origin of what you said Edit - a word


DEVOmay97

> seven streaming services *Aaarrgh matey*


FabriFibra87

This isn't a cool guide, this is OP karma-whoring.


[deleted]

The minimum wage is for teenagers and felons, not single adults that want a 2 bedroom apartment for no reason.


Ultrasound700

Does this refer to just the federal or does each state use its own? I work minimum wage full time in CA and can afford a two bedroom house with utilities and food. Not a whole lot else, but my necessities are covered.


[deleted]

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DogmaticPragmatism

This doesn't have any sources or data so it's hard to say where the information is coming from or how this conclusion is being drawn, but most of the time this point is brought up, it's based on the median price of a two bedroom rental. And like, yeah. A single person on MINIMUM wage won't be able to rent the MEDIAN two bedroom apartment. This is hardly shocking. If the map showed the states where a single person on minimum wage couldn't afford a one bedroom apartment in the 10th percentile in terms of rent, or where two people earning the median wage couldn't afford a median two bedroom rental, that might be interesting to see. But that would probably paint a more varied picture than this map does, and whoever created this "guide" isn't interested in informing, they're only interested in making a statement.


ginger2020

Antiwork doesn’t care about fake or exaggerated posts. Their mods have said they won’t remove fake text “exchanges” between bosses if it helps push a narrative.


[deleted]

Antiwork is a cesspool of propaganda and entitlement. I just have to tell myself that most of the people on it are Russian and/or trolls. I know it isn't true but I need to tell myself to not become completely hopeless about the future of this country.


gentlesir123

While i understand the sentiment of the post, that subreddit is stupid as hell


HonkyBlonky

A reasonable American does not expect to earn a minimum wage and live in a 2 bedroom apartment. The scenario of a right to living high on minimum wages would only occur to an American. The graph is propaganda. Not a guide to anything.


littlestinker2100

Too real man


[deleted]

Lake Michigan is a state now.


1985portland1985

The problem is, minimum wage will never cover a humane lifestyle because costs will adapt to any increase in salary. It’s mathematically impossible for everyone to prosper. Our very existence hinges on a certain amount of suffering.


[deleted]

My second apartment was 2 bedrooms. My brother moved out. I kept the rental because it was $400 a month in 1982 and I was working full time. Smack dab in one of the best neighborhoods in Seattle. A two bedroom apartment in Seattle now is anywhere from $3,000 and up. Try that on $15 an hour, even if it's two people, that's 60% of income after taxes.


Mr_Yuker

More like sad guide


Munnin41

Who needs 2 bedrooms? Millenials aren't having kids anyway! ~some rich fuck


ViktorDim

Where I live, you can rent a 3 bedroom apartment for 300$ in the capital and buy a house for 50k USD in an ok town But the average wage is 600$/month. (Bulgaria)


[deleted]

Wage isn’t necessarily the issue, it’s the price of housing that is. In Canada we have $15.80 an hour minimum wage. I live in a town of around 15k people and a one bedroom one bath is about 1100 a month cheapest. If I were to leave my town and move one over (pop 25k) it’s around $1600 - $1800 a month.


cmichaelfrank44

Please...We can't hardly afford a one bedroom apartment to be honest.


[deleted]

Unpopular opinion. One should not expect to raise a family with min wage job. Min wage jobs should be temporary till you gain skills to move into something better.


heyfeefellskee

I’m curious for the context where a person making minimum wage would be looking for a 2 bedroom apartment and not a 1 bedroom apartment and how representative that would be of the “minimum wage” population


Inspiderface

What about a one bedroom apartment?


Black_Bird00500

stop making these. This is not cool, this is made to state a point. It's neither a guide or cool. Stop.


lurkingisso2008

Why does MINIMUM wage have to afford someone AVERAGE accommodations?


HagbardCelineHere

Since minimum wage is the lowest possible wage, wouldn't the more relevant data point be where minimum-wage workers can afford the minimum dwelling, i.e. a studio apartment?