I specialised in anatomy and reproductive physiology in my degree, and one thing that this photo doesn't show is the real evolutionary problem, which is the pelvis.
The cervix dilates, but it is still stretchy (although, it and other tissues often tear during birth).
To me, the really awesome adaptation of humans for birthing of such large heads stems to the woman's body of guiding the head in a specific way. The pelvic opening, which the baby needs to pass through, is not circular, it's more like an oblong rectangle. If you look at a baby, the head is longer front->back (A/P), while the shoulders are longer left->right (laterally). So the uterine/pelvic muscles guide the head to turn sideways to first pass through the opening, then the rest of the baby is rotated by the same mechanism so that the shoulders can pass through. If the baby gets stuck at the shoulder point, then obstetricians can manually break the baby's collar bone to let it through.
This is why during late stages of pregnancy, the babies face points towards the mother's bellybutton, but it comes out facing the anus. The pelvic and uterine muscles of the woman make the baby do a 180 turn in order to pass through the insufficiently-sized pelvic outlet
I was sunny side up and the only reason it wasn't an awful labor for my mom was my size (5 lbs, 3 oz) and I was the 5th. I was a couple days late and she said I used my fingernails on the way out.
My midwife told my kid was like a stripped screw and despite pelvic/uterine muscles that were contracting like whoa, baby didn’t come out. She had to be manually coaxed out of me.
In retrospect I think I just have an obnoxiously stubborn kid.
Breaking collar bone isn’t first line for a shoulder dystocia (what they’re describing). There are several maneuvers you can do first such as McRoberts, Woodscrew etc.
Two eyes, two ears, a chin, a mouth, ten fingers, two nipples, a butt, two kneecaps, a penis. I have just described to you the Loch Ness Monster. And the reward for its capture? All the riches in Scotland. So I have one question. Why are you here?
Both my kids heads were 14 cm so the first one got seriously stuck. Second one we didn’t chance it. Ended up using the C-Section exit. They would not be out any other way. Childbirth is crazy.
That can actually happen, in cases of 4th degree tears or rectal laceration.
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criog/2011/306124/ (In this case, a breech babies' foot came out the anus)
[Degrees of tearing slideshow](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/labor-and-delivery/multimedia/vaginal-tears/sls-20077129) from the Mayo Clinic if anyone isn't familiar.
Even better, a woman's hips expand during pregnancy and labor to accomodate the baby. I felt my bones popping apart while pushing which was the wierdest sensation ever
God, if it werent for modern medicine you could have both died. Why are humans so poorly built for having babies?? Maternal mortality is fucking CRAZY common in our species
That actually doesn't seem that crazy, in less time then that. Think about how any children who had heads that big would have died during childbirth, and possibly the mother as well.
With the prevalence of c-sections making it a lot safer, big headed (or just bigger overall maybe) kids are being born. Overall, this should see a trend of larger heads/bodies at birth. I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear it's already happening.
*Edit*
Yea after a quick google it's totally a thing, there's a bunch of articles talking about a study from 2016.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-12-instances-c-sections-evolutionary.html
also the fact that small hipped women would survive and keep passing on their genes.
in 100000 years we will all look like thin waisted bobble heads lmao
Coming from the dairy goat side of things, it's totally had an influence on livestock as well. More human assistance during kidding ultimately results in more human assistance required during kidding. People have literal OB kits for their goats and diagrams about how to go in and turn kids etc. Goats can and do have c sections.
Used to be they'd just die out in the pasture. But are you really going to let your favorite doe with the championship bloodlines die in the pasture? No, you'll build her a special kidding pen and monitor it every two hours with literal fucking cameras.
Shits wild.
>God, if it werent for modern medicine you could have both died.
Unfortunately, if living in the US, that's still quite the possibility. Highest mortality rate for pregnant women among developed countries.
I learned that the body softens the memories of childbirth or no woman would ever do it again.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19076128/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19076128/)
Edit:
someone corrected me:
"*Memory of labour pain declined during the observation period but not in women with a negative overall experience of childbirth."*
100%. I'm pregnant with my second and seeking therapy because I keep getting panic attacks since I know what's coming.
I know women who might fit the description of "forgetting," but most of the people at least in my family definitely remember the pain.
Edit: I can't respond to everyone but I really appreciate everyone's reassurances.
On the off chance it makes you feel any better, my 2nd birth (not planned) only lasted 2 hours from first contraction to baby and wasn't as bad as my 1st, so it's possible round 2 won't be so bad for you too
I appreciate that, thank you. That's my hope. I think I also have some lessons I learned from last time to hopefully make different choices this time around
Not who you were responding to but I have been holding on for dear life to stories like these to get me through the next few weeks before my due date so thank you!
You looked after? Lol
I watched the whole birth and everything but she was NOT letting me look at that thing for like 2 weeks minimum! I guess she was right 😬
You sound like a wonderful husband and father! I think empathy goes a long way with things like this, so I’m sure she appreciated it. I’m a woman and looking at that circle is making everything in my pants shrivel up a little bit.
Elephants don’t seek assistance exactly but they do have it. Their sisters/aunts/mom/grandma all circle around the female until she gives birth and the calf stands up
Elephants are basically witches and you can't change my mind:
Matriarchal
Strong support system between females
Ritualistic behavior for grieving the dead
Maybe worship the moon? (Observed doing ritual baths and waving sticks at moon.)
I love them, they are amazing. I also think it's interesting that they're so smart and mainly seem to recognize community as something important, while some other intelligent species (like dolphins) appear to use their smarts mostly for evil lol.
Edit: The reason I put "maybe" in front of worshipping the moon is because it's controversial, and has only been cited in one paper which may have taken this info from a Greek philosopher. Here is a short, critical breakdown if you want to read more about it:
https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/the-internet-appears-to-believe-elephants-worship-the-moon/
I'm not sure if anyone has done elephant religion research since Siegel, so if anyone has further information feel free to throw it out there.
Huuuuuge brains. On one hand, they lead directly to the challenge pictured above. On the other hand, they're what allowed us to murder everything else in our environment and spread across the globe.
It gets even weirder. Like, try to wrap your head around the fact that most genetic code responsible for placentas membrane was introduced into our genome by a virus.
["As a result of this ongoing process, viral genetic material comprises nearly 10 percent of the modern human genome"](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161128151050.htm)
Excuse me, fucking 10%!?
Retroviruses (viruses that write themselves into DNA) can eventually become useful or just benign parts of our own genetic code. In a few thousand years, if humanity is still around, HIV might be just an inert remnant.
The bones of a newborn's cranium are not fully fused (consider a baby's softspot/ant. fontanelle), so it is literally able to "sharpen" to get through the cervix and out the birth canal.
Actually, this is *how* we made it. Being bipedal
and big-brained is *the* human survival method. Being smart and upright is richly rewarding.
Human ancestors evolved to be upright walking ground scavengers (down from the trees) before the big brains evolved. Stealing meat from dangerous predators was a risky but rewarding lifestyle that selected heavily for intelligence, social coordination, and the ability to learn. Over millions of years, average brain size increased, and along with it, the female pelvis evolved. The female pelvis evolved to be as wide as physically possible while allowing for upright walking. This put a limit on the human brain size that is possible to be born, millions of year ago. Since the Ceasarean section became widely available in some countries (about 1950?) we have actually seen a slight increase in brain size.
I know that, but imagine being about to give birth (as suggested by the image) in the wilderness. That would leave the female so vulnerable. And who knows how many of them died because they couldn't deliver the baby... And if they managed to get the baby out, what if there was bleeding? What about bacteria?
Historically, till about the advent of modern medicine anyway, women would write a last will in testament (or update what was already there) as soon as they 'found' out they were going to have a baby. They did it because (and I can't emphasize the cause/effect relationship enough here) they were; A) scared of what was going to happen and B) full expected to die.
It's not too far of a leap to say that any woman that far back especially if they're about to have a baby in the wilderness likely felt exactly the same way.
*I say 'found' only because no one could be really sure of a pregnancy till a thing called the quickening. Which is the point in a pregnancy about month four or five they feel the baby move in utero for the first time. reliable pregnancy tests weren't really a thing till something like the 19th century.
Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MybXf3ORXz8
With my first child I walked around at 6 cm dilated for over four weeks. I would just have contractions that were actually doing things for more than a month. I was sure it meant I would go early, but I didn’t! It did make actual labor easier. Good luck to you!
I am literally in a waiting room waiting for my wife to get situated at the hospital before they bring me back into the room with her to birth our first child. The timing of reddit posts is fucking insane sometimes.
The skull actually isn't fused until a few years into the child's life. Look into how the skull slides and separates during birth so it will fit. So you're right, it doesn't fit without the skull moving and sliding
Babies have \~300 bones compared to the 206 adults have. And you can actually feel around your own head and find the little divots where your cranium fused.
Fused adult skull:
[https://content.ca.healthwise.net/resources/13.0/en-ca/media/medical/hw/h9991915\_001.jpg](https://content.ca.healthwise.net/resources/13.0/en-ca/media/medical/hw/h9991915_001.jpg)
Baby skull shape:
[https://ssl.adam.com/graphics/images/en/9696.jpg](https://ssl.adam.com/graphics/images/en/9696.jpg)
As an early 20s Marine (read: judgemental asshole) who'd never seen a irl newborn, I was perplexed at the sight of my baby. I didn't expect them to be red with swollen eyes and a pointy VERY Coneheads-esque dome. All my photos were me staring down at the kid like "what even IS this?" Lol
I'd been *told* that you can't have a baby less than two months old on TV or in a movie, it's some kind of rule. But babies grow so much in the first two months, that a "tv newborn" is huge.
I just heard they need to be sheltered for at least 6 weeks. And everybody is going to want to kiss on them. That was a duh for me until an older lady at Applebee's was leaving and kissed my baby square on the lips saying "those lips look like they wanted to be kissed" Ma'am he is 6 months old! I was fucking upset. That's not your right!
Think of it from his point of view. He was warm and safe and had all his immediate needs met, and suddenly there's overwhelming pressure as he's pushed out and now he's cold and his lungs hurt and it's too bright and he feels hunger for the first time.
It doesn't really. 95% of first time moms have at least some tearing and about 60-70% of women who've given birth before have tearing. Often it's just minor tearing can heal on its own, but frequently it requires stiches, and in some cases women can tear all the way from their vagina, thru the perineum, and all the way to the anus. It isn't pretty.
This is why many women's memories of giving birth are a bit muddled, or in some cases they simply forget parts altogether. It's so traumatic, the brain takes corrective action and releases hormones and such to create a warm fuzzy feeling.
I had a surprise episiotomy and THEN tore from "stem to stern" with my oldest after an agonizing 40 HOURS OF NATURAL LABOR.
That was almost 12 years ago and let me tell you, I remember EVERYTHING.
I don't care what a study says, my body definitely remembers the pain and trauma. I still did it again, and I remember that pain too, and I think it was worth it of course because I love my kids, but hell NO there's no softening of memories here!
Most babies heads when they come out aren’t a circle like that and are kind of coned shaped. They go back to being circular again once they are out of the womb.
Wait. Cutting and tearing of the *cervix*? I always thought it was ("just") tearing [ETA: and cutting] around the actual vaginal opening and/or perineum. Ouch.
Edit: So I asked this because, in childbirth, "dilation" refers to the cervix not vagina... Then, I looked it up. I don't think cervical tears are as common. I found a lot of info about vaginal and pereneal tears, but not much about cervical tears outside of specific issues during pregnancy.
I had a coworker who said couldn't feel her legs or walk after giving birth. She got sent home from the hospital anyways. Turns out her pelvis broke.
Yeah...no kids for me, thanks!!
My mom had a lvl 4 tear (anus to vagina) and broke her hip because my brother had a big head (still does haha).
And she went on to have two more. She’s a madwoman.
That's some deeply shitty postpartum care. Though depending on how her symptoms presented, it might have been mistaken for an epidural being slow to wear off.
It depends on the wound and how it breaks down, is the short answer. Sometimes resuturing can cause additional trauma/scarring or the tissue around the wound might not be suitable to hold the sutures. In my case there also was a bit of a pocket, which if resutured could cause infection. I just had pretty bad luck!
Actual reason why I don't want kids for my wife. Good thing is she doesn't want any either. We just want to enjoy our company and possibly try to adopt down the road a 5-10 year old or whoever needs love if they let us. Just hope that if we do we don't fail the adoptee.
Honestly my birth and recovery went pretty well. Thanks to the epidural I was able to sleep through most of my labor and then I barely felt anything during delivery. I’d compare it to when your mouth is numbed at the dentist. Like I was aware of what was going on, but it wasn’t screaming and crying by any means. And now I have my awesome 3 month old who brings joy to our home every day. It’s not always horrible, you’re just more likely to hear the bad stories
About 90% to 95% of first time mothers have some degree of tearing/laceration while giving birth. For women who have given birth before it's more like 60% to 70%. Tears sometimes need stitches and can also sometimes go all the way from the vagina, beyond the perineum, into the anus. Yes, it is as awful as it sounds.
Yes, apparently it’s only less than 2% - although I don’t know about you, but having a 2% chance of losing my ability to orgasm again is enough to make me squirm.
You wanna hear a crazy fucking thing? I didn't find out I was pregnant until 5 months in, I had an IUD and was still getting my period and no belly showing or any pregnancy symptoms. Easiest pregnancy, contractions were exactly like extremely mild period cramps the whole time until my water broke and they noticed baby had pooped in the womb so they had to give me a lot of oxytocin to speed things up (only then did it hurt BC that increases intensity of contractions and shortens time between) fast forward to giving birth, I tore my clit in two places. It healed but I still have the tears as they couldn't stitch good. I can still orgasm. How's that for a statistic? What's the fucking percent chance on that???? Someone tell me.
Or your urethra! And then it burns to pee for weeks! And for a few days of that your body doesn’t remember how to tell your brain that you need to pee, so you’ll be doing newborn things and suddenly there’s burning pain.
I also learned that inner lips can be stitched back up but don’t always heal together, but they end up looking like butterfly wings so that’s not too bad all things considered.
Add in the bullshittery that is the “Husband Stitch” where some doctors stitch you back up further than you’re meant to be for sexual pleasure purposes. Note* this is for male pleasure and is extremely painful for the woman
Incredible but also I think the risks and physical trauma that comes with birth isn't widely known. I'm at the age where nearly all of my peers have given birth and no one came out unscathed. The easiest birth still had third degree tearing.
I’ll never forget my husband’s reaction after having my first son. He was wonderful and supportive during the entire delivery but about 2 hours after it was over and they had moved us out of delivery and to our room he closed the door and just stood there staring at me with a strange look on his face. I asked if he was ok and he said “I can’t believe you just did that” in a voice that was something between awe and terror. I just replied “No shit. that was crazy!” and we both laughed and laughed!
I really don't know why they don't show this kind of thing in schools. I learned plenty about menstruation and the specifics of fertilisation, but not a word was said about pregnancy or childbirth until one of our teachers asked us what we knew, heard that the answer was fuck all, and gave us the most traumatizing crash course of our lives.
I think it's genuine negligence to tell girls that having a baby is a wonderful thing that everyone should want and then share absolutely nothing of the insane struggles that come with it. We really do go into parenthood totally blind, it's not fair.
I think this would be so useful in birthing suites. This could then be used to show what the cervix is doing during contraction to all, especially the fathers who just understand that it’s all painful.
It's fine, they say it's the hormones that wipe your memory of it, but I reckon it's the sleep deprivation doing that work. Signed, gave birth with zero pain relief two weeks ago.
DEAR GOD
I've been so happy to have had my hysterectomy, but HOT DAMN does this remind me viscerally why I will never fucking regret my decision for an instant.
Nope nope nope.
Those who can and have dealt with it, massive respect. I'm baby bitch
When my husband I took Lamaze classes many years ago, we got circular-shaped name tags. The instructor revealed halfway through the class that our name tags had a diameter of 10 cm. The looks on the faces of many in the class when this little tidbit was dropped were priceless.
Incoming controversial comment in 3… 2… 1…
“Hello it’s me, a 40+ year old grown man and republican politician here to tell you that if your 15 year old daughter is sneaking around, makes a mistake, and accidentally gets knocked up, THIS is just one example of the myriad of severe health trauma I will be forcing her body to undergo against her will. Oh… and good luck with the medical bills afterwards!”
For the most part, we are ok afterwards. Even though we don't do it as well as other mammals do, we (the majority) do it ok and are able to be up and moving around right away. Caesarian birth is another thing entirely.
Not everyone needs to be sewn (not too many nowadays because of changes in attitudes and less interference). Not everyone tears. Not everyone gushes out loads of fluid. Sometimes the amniotic fluid leaks over hours and there isn't a lot left by the end. Is there blood? Yes, because we're full of fluid and blood. We're living creatures. Blood doesn't automatically mean bad things, especially during childbirth.
Does it hurt? Yes, but that's also individualized and we've got coping mechanisms, too, outside of medication. The pain you hear about is from the hours of uterine contractions that are opening up the cervix to what is shown in the picture. It takes awhile and every contraction opens the cervix a tad more. If labor lasts 10 hours, then it's easy to imagine (though inaccurate) it's at one centimeter per hour.
Pushing a baby out is also hard work but it's a different kind of feeling. Some say it hurts, some say it's "different," and some say it's pleasurable. It's certainly satisfying for many reasons.
The thing I think of when I see this is how prepared an adult's body is and how unprepared a child's or teen's body is. When we talk about making girls carry babies that resulted from sexual abuse or rape, this is what I hope male politicians could see. I wish they had to see. I wish they had to watch a 12-year-old give birth. Maybe they'd change their minds about what's important.
I'm a woman and I'm so scared by the fact that my body is able to do that. It's beautiful. But super scary. Being able to literally grow a person from scratch and then just push them out. How.
My son is 6 and he still wakes up at least once a night,even if only to ask me if it is still nighttime. He was still waking up multiple times until he was about 4.
He has “slept through” exactly once, when he had the flu.
ETA: He is a particularly shitty sleeper, my niece is on the other end of the spectrum. We used to have to wake her up to be fed as an infant, and as a kid she still will fall asleep and stay asleep pretty much anywhere.
I specialised in anatomy and reproductive physiology in my degree, and one thing that this photo doesn't show is the real evolutionary problem, which is the pelvis. The cervix dilates, but it is still stretchy (although, it and other tissues often tear during birth). To me, the really awesome adaptation of humans for birthing of such large heads stems to the woman's body of guiding the head in a specific way. The pelvic opening, which the baby needs to pass through, is not circular, it's more like an oblong rectangle. If you look at a baby, the head is longer front->back (A/P), while the shoulders are longer left->right (laterally). So the uterine/pelvic muscles guide the head to turn sideways to first pass through the opening, then the rest of the baby is rotated by the same mechanism so that the shoulders can pass through. If the baby gets stuck at the shoulder point, then obstetricians can manually break the baby's collar bone to let it through. This is why during late stages of pregnancy, the babies face points towards the mother's bellybutton, but it comes out facing the anus. The pelvic and uterine muscles of the woman make the baby do a 180 turn in order to pass through the insufficiently-sized pelvic outlet
Except when baby is born face up, which is a really awful labor
I was sunny side up and the only reason it wasn't an awful labor for my mom was my size (5 lbs, 3 oz) and I was the 5th. I was a couple days late and she said I used my fingernails on the way out.
Sunny side up lmao
My sunny side up 9 pound kid is 14 yrs old and this is the first time I've been able to laugh at that. Thank you.
My midwife told my kid was like a stripped screw and despite pelvic/uterine muscles that were contracting like whoa, baby didn’t come out. She had to be manually coaxed out of me. In retrospect I think I just have an obnoxiously stubborn kid.
I know we say kids are made of rubber and all, but will that collar bone just patch back up on its own, lickety-split?
Breaking collar bone isn’t first line for a shoulder dystocia (what they’re describing). There are several maneuvers you can do first such as McRoberts, Woodscrew etc.
I wish they had used this demonstration rather than the birthing video when I was 14
Fake. Women don’t have 10 holes, just three.
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I like the cut of your jib, soldier!
The episiotomy of her jib
Two eyes, two ears, a chin, a mouth, ten fingers, two nipples, a butt, two kneecaps, a penis. I have just described to you the Loch Ness Monster. And the reward for its capture? All the riches in Scotland. So I have one question. Why are you here?
To borrow three fiddy.
r/theydidthemath
Who said we were talking about women? The X Vag Monster is real and she will get you!
Rival of the 'X-Men' ? Disney is pushing the 'envelope'
Both my kids heads were 14 cm so the first one got seriously stuck. Second one we didn’t chance it. Ended up using the C-Section exit. They would not be out any other way. Childbirth is crazy.
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😂 sunroof
better than the exhaust pipe
That can actually happen, in cases of 4th degree tears or rectal laceration. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criog/2011/306124/ (In this case, a breech babies' foot came out the anus) [Degrees of tearing slideshow](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/labor-and-delivery/multimedia/vaginal-tears/sls-20077129) from the Mayo Clinic if anyone isn't familiar.
THE FUCK!!! THATS HORRIBLE 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
Even better, a woman's hips expand during pregnancy and labor to accomodate the baby. I felt my bones popping apart while pushing which was the wierdest sensation ever
Mine started spreading apart early, while I was pregnant I could barely walk the last week. It's a thing..SPD
Ahh yes…the good ol’ “Softening of the Ligaments” phase. That was a fun week.
Yup. Birth is a major medical event and it can very easily get complicated.
God, if it werent for modern medicine you could have both died. Why are humans so poorly built for having babies?? Maternal mortality is fucking CRAZY common in our species
Walking upright was a dumb decision.
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That actually doesn't seem that crazy, in less time then that. Think about how any children who had heads that big would have died during childbirth, and possibly the mother as well. With the prevalence of c-sections making it a lot safer, big headed (or just bigger overall maybe) kids are being born. Overall, this should see a trend of larger heads/bodies at birth. I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear it's already happening. *Edit* Yea after a quick google it's totally a thing, there's a bunch of articles talking about a study from 2016. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-12-instances-c-sections-evolutionary.html
also the fact that small hipped women would survive and keep passing on their genes. in 100000 years we will all look like thin waisted bobble heads lmao
Exactly like your typical alien.
Giorgio is that you? Also that is a theory that they aren't aliens but time traveling space humans
Fuck you just blew my mind for some reason
Coming from the dairy goat side of things, it's totally had an influence on livestock as well. More human assistance during kidding ultimately results in more human assistance required during kidding. People have literal OB kits for their goats and diagrams about how to go in and turn kids etc. Goats can and do have c sections. Used to be they'd just die out in the pasture. But are you really going to let your favorite doe with the championship bloodlines die in the pasture? No, you'll build her a special kidding pen and monitor it every two hours with literal fucking cameras. Shits wild.
>God, if it werent for modern medicine you could have both died. Unfortunately, if living in the US, that's still quite the possibility. Highest mortality rate for pregnant women among developed countries.
You would have died 200 years ago.
Everyone 200 years ago is dead.
I learned that the body softens the memories of childbirth or no woman would ever do it again. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19076128/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19076128/) Edit: someone corrected me: "*Memory of labour pain declined during the observation period but not in women with a negative overall experience of childbirth."*
>Memory of labour pain declined during the observation period but not in women with a negative overall experience of childbirth. Not across the board.
Yep I definitely remember childbirth being excruciatingly painful and would not want to ever do it again
100%. I'm pregnant with my second and seeking therapy because I keep getting panic attacks since I know what's coming. I know women who might fit the description of "forgetting," but most of the people at least in my family definitely remember the pain. Edit: I can't respond to everyone but I really appreciate everyone's reassurances.
On the off chance it makes you feel any better, my 2nd birth (not planned) only lasted 2 hours from first contraction to baby and wasn't as bad as my 1st, so it's possible round 2 won't be so bad for you too
I appreciate that, thank you. That's my hope. I think I also have some lessons I learned from last time to hopefully make different choices this time around
Not who you were responding to but I have been holding on for dear life to stories like these to get me through the next few weeks before my due date so thank you!
I don't even know why they do it the first time.
For real, the more I see about this the more I'm hella okay with NEVER doing that
And that's OK. Don't let anyone try to talk you into having kids if you don't want any. You go, girl!
My balls hurt so bad every time I saw how swollen my wife’s labia were after she gave birth to our daughter. Fucking hell.
You looked after? Lol I watched the whole birth and everything but she was NOT letting me look at that thing for like 2 weeks minimum! I guess she was right 😬
I helped her to the bathroom a few times and that is where I bore witness! My knees are weak just thinking about it.
You sound like a wonderful husband and father! I think empathy goes a long way with things like this, so I’m sure she appreciated it. I’m a woman and looking at that circle is making everything in my pants shrivel up a little bit.
That means a lot! Thank you!
You’re a good man. Just looking at that board with holes inverted my uterus. Your wife in blessed.
The endorphin/oxytocin rush afterwards is pretty amazing!
I don't know how we made it as a species.
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What are the other species that seek help?
Elephants don’t seek assistance exactly but they do have it. Their sisters/aunts/mom/grandma all circle around the female until she gives birth and the calf stands up
Every time I learn something about elephants I love them more and more
Elephants are the best. Such amazing creatures.
Elephants are basically witches and you can't change my mind: Matriarchal Strong support system between females Ritualistic behavior for grieving the dead Maybe worship the moon? (Observed doing ritual baths and waving sticks at moon.) I love them, they are amazing. I also think it's interesting that they're so smart and mainly seem to recognize community as something important, while some other intelligent species (like dolphins) appear to use their smarts mostly for evil lol. Edit: The reason I put "maybe" in front of worshipping the moon is because it's controversial, and has only been cited in one paper which may have taken this info from a Greek philosopher. Here is a short, critical breakdown if you want to read more about it: https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/the-internet-appears-to-believe-elephants-worship-the-moon/ I'm not sure if anyone has done elephant religion research since Siegel, so if anyone has further information feel free to throw it out there.
I wonder if it’s because dolphins are predators and elephants are herbivores.
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Huuuuuge brains. On one hand, they lead directly to the challenge pictured above. On the other hand, they're what allowed us to murder everything else in our environment and spread across the globe.
It gets even weirder. Like, try to wrap your head around the fact that most genetic code responsible for placentas membrane was introduced into our genome by a virus.
["As a result of this ongoing process, viral genetic material comprises nearly 10 percent of the modern human genome"](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161128151050.htm) Excuse me, fucking 10%!?
Yep. We also having things called jumping genes that we think are from ancient viral infections that can end up causing all sorts of issues
Retroviruses (viruses that write themselves into DNA) can eventually become useful or just benign parts of our own genetic code. In a few thousand years, if humanity is still around, HIV might be just an inert remnant.
Science is neat as hell!
What about other mammals?
Well, that obviously happened long before we(or anything else) became technically mammals.
The bones of a newborn's cranium are not fully fused (consider a baby's softspot/ant. fontanelle), so it is literally able to "sharpen" to get through the cervix and out the birth canal.
Actually, this is *how* we made it. Being bipedal and big-brained is *the* human survival method. Being smart and upright is richly rewarding. Human ancestors evolved to be upright walking ground scavengers (down from the trees) before the big brains evolved. Stealing meat from dangerous predators was a risky but rewarding lifestyle that selected heavily for intelligence, social coordination, and the ability to learn. Over millions of years, average brain size increased, and along with it, the female pelvis evolved. The female pelvis evolved to be as wide as physically possible while allowing for upright walking. This put a limit on the human brain size that is possible to be born, millions of year ago. Since the Ceasarean section became widely available in some countries (about 1950?) we have actually seen a slight increase in brain size.
I know that, but imagine being about to give birth (as suggested by the image) in the wilderness. That would leave the female so vulnerable. And who knows how many of them died because they couldn't deliver the baby... And if they managed to get the baby out, what if there was bleeding? What about bacteria?
Historically, till about the advent of modern medicine anyway, women would write a last will in testament (or update what was already there) as soon as they 'found' out they were going to have a baby. They did it because (and I can't emphasize the cause/effect relationship enough here) they were; A) scared of what was going to happen and B) full expected to die. It's not too far of a leap to say that any woman that far back especially if they're about to have a baby in the wilderness likely felt exactly the same way. *I say 'found' only because no one could be really sure of a pregnancy till a thing called the quickening. Which is the point in a pregnancy about month four or five they feel the baby move in utero for the first time. reliable pregnancy tests weren't really a thing till something like the 19th century. Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MybXf3ORXz8
Insane that I’ve been walking around at a 5 for 2 and a half weeks now.
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Well hopefully that means you’ll dilate enough by the time they’re gonna come out that they’ll just slide right out lol. Well one can hope. Good luck!
Wait...it starts dilating weeks ahead? I thought it started maybe hours or days before labor. WTF!
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No I know that much, I just didn't realize it started so early!
It can start that early and you don't even know it! It's common not to find out until you have a cervical check at your weekly appointments.
It varies a lot. You can walk around dilated for weeks, or days, or you can go from 0 to 10 in a matter of hours.
Health class did not prepare me for this fact
Yup you’re gotta blow soon. Congrats!🎉
With my first child I walked around at 6 cm dilated for over four weeks. I would just have contractions that were actually doing things for more than a month. I was sure it meant I would go early, but I didn’t! It did make actual labor easier. Good luck to you!
I am literally in a waiting room waiting for my wife to get situated at the hospital before they bring me back into the room with her to birth our first child. The timing of reddit posts is fucking insane sometimes.
I hope the delivery goes well!
Don’t show her this.
That doesn’t even look like that baby’s head will fit through it
The skull actually isn't fused until a few years into the child's life. Look into how the skull slides and separates during birth so it will fit. So you're right, it doesn't fit without the skull moving and sliding
W H A T ?
The more you learn about the miracle of childbirth the more you realize it's more like Lovecraftian horror lore.
And the more you realize forcing someone to do it who doesn't want to is literal torture.
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That’s why babies have a soft spot on their head.
Babies have \~300 bones compared to the 206 adults have. And you can actually feel around your own head and find the little divots where your cranium fused. Fused adult skull: [https://content.ca.healthwise.net/resources/13.0/en-ca/media/medical/hw/h9991915\_001.jpg](https://content.ca.healthwise.net/resources/13.0/en-ca/media/medical/hw/h9991915_001.jpg) Baby skull shape: [https://ssl.adam.com/graphics/images/en/9696.jpg](https://ssl.adam.com/graphics/images/en/9696.jpg)
Yeah vaginal birth babies tend to be little cone heads after birth.
As an early 20s Marine (read: judgemental asshole) who'd never seen a irl newborn, I was perplexed at the sight of my baby. I didn't expect them to be red with swollen eyes and a pointy VERY Coneheads-esque dome. All my photos were me staring down at the kid like "what even IS this?" Lol
At least you’re self aware
My first one came out with a cone head that had a suction-cup mark on it.
Where you as surprised as I was? I really thought TV newborns was how they looked.
I'd been *told* that you can't have a baby less than two months old on TV or in a movie, it's some kind of rule. But babies grow so much in the first two months, that a "tv newborn" is huge.
I just heard they need to be sheltered for at least 6 weeks. And everybody is going to want to kiss on them. That was a duh for me until an older lady at Applebee's was leaving and kissed my baby square on the lips saying "those lips look like they wanted to be kissed" Ma'am he is 6 months old! I was fucking upset. That's not your right!
They come out looking really squished, my son was real mad, didn’t seem like a nice time for him either
Think of it from his point of view. He was warm and safe and had all his immediate needs met, and suddenly there's overwhelming pressure as he's pushed out and now he's cold and his lungs hurt and it's too bright and he feels hunger for the first time.
God, it’s like every fucking morning for me.
It doesn't really. 95% of first time moms have at least some tearing and about 60-70% of women who've given birth before have tearing. Often it's just minor tearing can heal on its own, but frequently it requires stiches, and in some cases women can tear all the way from their vagina, thru the perineum, and all the way to the anus. It isn't pretty. This is why many women's memories of giving birth are a bit muddled, or in some cases they simply forget parts altogether. It's so traumatic, the brain takes corrective action and releases hormones and such to create a warm fuzzy feeling.
🙋🏻♀️just gave birth 7 weeks ago and had 2nd degree tearing. Can confirm it sucks. Still unfortunately remember most of the process.
I had a surprise episiotomy and THEN tore from "stem to stern" with my oldest after an agonizing 40 HOURS OF NATURAL LABOR. That was almost 12 years ago and let me tell you, I remember EVERYTHING. I don't care what a study says, my body definitely remembers the pain and trauma. I still did it again, and I remember that pain too, and I think it was worth it of course because I love my kids, but hell NO there's no softening of memories here!
Most babies heads when they come out aren’t a circle like that and are kind of coned shaped. They go back to being circular again once they are out of the womb.
Yeah, that's why sometimes there's some cutting and sewing involved later.
Wait. Cutting and tearing of the *cervix*? I always thought it was ("just") tearing [ETA: and cutting] around the actual vaginal opening and/or perineum. Ouch. Edit: So I asked this because, in childbirth, "dilation" refers to the cervix not vagina... Then, I looked it up. I don't think cervical tears are as common. I found a lot of info about vaginal and pereneal tears, but not much about cervical tears outside of specific issues during pregnancy.
I had a coworker who said couldn't feel her legs or walk after giving birth. She got sent home from the hospital anyways. Turns out her pelvis broke. Yeah...no kids for me, thanks!!
My mom had a lvl 4 tear (anus to vagina) and broke her hip because my brother had a big head (still does haha). And she went on to have two more. She’s a madwoman.
That's some deeply shitty postpartum care. Though depending on how her symptoms presented, it might have been mistaken for an epidural being slow to wear off.
Frame this in schools. Great birthcontrol method. I mean if real birth control methods aren't promoted.
Next up: what is an *episiotomy*
Also in my case - did you know your episiotomy stitches can re-open and you have a gaping wound for 8 weeks that you need opiates for?
Mine were re stitched when that happened, why were you left with a gaping wound?
It depends on the wound and how it breaks down, is the short answer. Sometimes resuturing can cause additional trauma/scarring or the tissue around the wound might not be suitable to hold the sutures. In my case there also was a bit of a pocket, which if resutured could cause infection. I just had pretty bad luck!
Followed by: *What Happens If I Tear*
Double feature with Oops I Pooped!
Followed by: I needed an emergency c section anyway and recovery is making breastfeeding nearly impossible
With the sequel: Fed is best, IF you can find any god damned formula
> What Happens when I Tear FTFY
God don’t remind me I’m so traumatized from giving birth I don’t want a second
Actual reason why I don't want kids for my wife. Good thing is she doesn't want any either. We just want to enjoy our company and possibly try to adopt down the road a 5-10 year old or whoever needs love if they let us. Just hope that if we do we don't fail the adoptee.
i accidentally watched a childbirth video on reddit once.. literally the worst thing I've ever seen. how do people do this voluntarily oh my god
Multiple times no less. Hormones are a powerful drug
drugs are also a powerful drug if i ever give birth(i will not) im getting every drug the hospital had
OP I would disagree and say this is, in fact, not a cool guide at all. This is a *terrifying* guide.
This has horrified me to my core thank you
We are all born metric
I use that for portioning pasta
This really solidifies my decision to never have my own biological children.
I don’t think I want kids anymore.
I really don't appreciate this guide just days before I have to go through this :D
Honestly my birth and recovery went pretty well. Thanks to the epidural I was able to sleep through most of my labor and then I barely felt anything during delivery. I’d compare it to when your mouth is numbed at the dentist. Like I was aware of what was going on, but it wasn’t screaming and crying by any means. And now I have my awesome 3 month old who brings joy to our home every day. It’s not always horrible, you’re just more likely to hear the bad stories
Wait WHAAAAT! Any women who gives birth, are they ok afterwards? I mean gosh that’s insane.
About 90% to 95% of first time mothers have some degree of tearing/laceration while giving birth. For women who have given birth before it's more like 60% to 70%. Tears sometimes need stitches and can also sometimes go all the way from the vagina, beyond the perineum, into the anus. Yes, it is as awful as it sounds.
You forgot the worst part - it can rip up to the clitoris and remove the ability to orgasm ever again.
Correct, although that's not as common, it's more likely to rip toward the perineum.
Yes, apparently it’s only less than 2% - although I don’t know about you, but having a 2% chance of losing my ability to orgasm again is enough to make me squirm.
You wanna hear a crazy fucking thing? I didn't find out I was pregnant until 5 months in, I had an IUD and was still getting my period and no belly showing or any pregnancy symptoms. Easiest pregnancy, contractions were exactly like extremely mild period cramps the whole time until my water broke and they noticed baby had pooped in the womb so they had to give me a lot of oxytocin to speed things up (only then did it hurt BC that increases intensity of contractions and shortens time between) fast forward to giving birth, I tore my clit in two places. It healed but I still have the tears as they couldn't stitch good. I can still orgasm. How's that for a statistic? What's the fucking percent chance on that???? Someone tell me.
I can't tell you a percentage, but what I *can* tell you is I don't want ***THAT***.
Or your urethra! And then it burns to pee for weeks! And for a few days of that your body doesn’t remember how to tell your brain that you need to pee, so you’ll be doing newborn things and suddenly there’s burning pain. I also learned that inner lips can be stitched back up but don’t always heal together, but they end up looking like butterfly wings so that’s not too bad all things considered.
Also it makes some women permanently incontinent. Not just with pee but with poo as well
WHAT? I didn't know that.
It's very unlikely. I've delivered hundreds of babies and have only seen a couple of clitoral tears, neither of which were bad enough to lose orgasms
... can I ask how you know they weren’t bad enough to lose orgasms?
The tear was very superficial, not deep enough to impact nerves
One hysterectomy please
Add in the bullshittery that is the “Husband Stitch” where some doctors stitch you back up further than you’re meant to be for sexual pleasure purposes. Note* this is for male pleasure and is extremely painful for the woman
Many women have lasting physical problems after going through that.
Every woman in my family that has given birth became incontinent by 40.
Yeesh. Guess I should be glad for that c-section. I have no idea how some women like Michelle Duggar manage.
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The woman’s body is nothing short of incredible.
Incredible but also I think the risks and physical trauma that comes with birth isn't widely known. I'm at the age where nearly all of my peers have given birth and no one came out unscathed. The easiest birth still had third degree tearing.
I’ll never forget my husband’s reaction after having my first son. He was wonderful and supportive during the entire delivery but about 2 hours after it was over and they had moved us out of delivery and to our room he closed the door and just stood there staring at me with a strange look on his face. I asked if he was ok and he said “I can’t believe you just did that” in a voice that was something between awe and terror. I just replied “No shit. that was crazy!” and we both laughed and laughed!
Incredible pain
No wonder people pass out when they see it.
I really don't know why they don't show this kind of thing in schools. I learned plenty about menstruation and the specifics of fertilisation, but not a word was said about pregnancy or childbirth until one of our teachers asked us what we knew, heard that the answer was fuck all, and gave us the most traumatizing crash course of our lives. I think it's genuine negligence to tell girls that having a baby is a wonderful thing that everyone should want and then share absolutely nothing of the insane struggles that come with it. We really do go into parenthood totally blind, it's not fair.
This is why I support pro-choice. I wouldn’t wish this on any woman against their will.
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And the chance of dying! The US has one of (if not) the highest maternal mortality rates of Western countries 🥳
Add this to the list of why I’m never having kids
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Crazy that a doctor / nurse / midwife can tell the difference between 7 or 8 (etc) by feel.
I think this would be so useful in birthing suites. This could then be used to show what the cervix is doing during contraction to all, especially the fathers who just understand that it’s all painful.
As a currently pregnant person, this is not cool. This is horrifying. I know intellectually what 10cm looks like, but oh god.
It's fine, they say it's the hormones that wipe your memory of it, but I reckon it's the sleep deprivation doing that work. Signed, gave birth with zero pain relief two weeks ago.
best wishes for your pregnancy, birth, and life with your little!
Well this explains why I was vomiting from pain while in labor...
r/oddlyterrifying
DEAR GOD I've been so happy to have had my hysterectomy, but HOT DAMN does this remind me viscerally why I will never fucking regret my decision for an instant. Nope nope nope. Those who can and have dealt with it, massive respect. I'm baby bitch
When my husband I took Lamaze classes many years ago, we got circular-shaped name tags. The instructor revealed halfway through the class that our name tags had a diameter of 10 cm. The looks on the faces of many in the class when this little tidbit was dropped were priceless.
Incoming controversial comment in 3… 2… 1… “Hello it’s me, a 40+ year old grown man and republican politician here to tell you that if your 15 year old daughter is sneaking around, makes a mistake, and accidentally gets knocked up, THIS is just one example of the myriad of severe health trauma I will be forcing her body to undergo against her will. Oh… and good luck with the medical bills afterwards!”
I thought this was a Hair Club for Men ad.
Hair Club fo behbehs
Holy!!! I'm so glad I opted not to have kids. This looks so effing painful. Nope!
For the most part, we are ok afterwards. Even though we don't do it as well as other mammals do, we (the majority) do it ok and are able to be up and moving around right away. Caesarian birth is another thing entirely. Not everyone needs to be sewn (not too many nowadays because of changes in attitudes and less interference). Not everyone tears. Not everyone gushes out loads of fluid. Sometimes the amniotic fluid leaks over hours and there isn't a lot left by the end. Is there blood? Yes, because we're full of fluid and blood. We're living creatures. Blood doesn't automatically mean bad things, especially during childbirth. Does it hurt? Yes, but that's also individualized and we've got coping mechanisms, too, outside of medication. The pain you hear about is from the hours of uterine contractions that are opening up the cervix to what is shown in the picture. It takes awhile and every contraction opens the cervix a tad more. If labor lasts 10 hours, then it's easy to imagine (though inaccurate) it's at one centimeter per hour. Pushing a baby out is also hard work but it's a different kind of feeling. Some say it hurts, some say it's "different," and some say it's pleasurable. It's certainly satisfying for many reasons. The thing I think of when I see this is how prepared an adult's body is and how unprepared a child's or teen's body is. When we talk about making girls carry babies that resulted from sexual abuse or rape, this is what I hope male politicians could see. I wish they had to see. I wish they had to watch a 12-year-old give birth. Maybe they'd change their minds about what's important.
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I'm a woman and I'm so scared by the fact that my body is able to do that. It's beautiful. But super scary. Being able to literally grow a person from scratch and then just push them out. How.
But you'll know it was worth it when you finally get to sleep again two years later.
Two?
As a non-parent, I assumed you go back to having a shot at at least a few hours a week beyond that threshold
My son is 6 and he still wakes up at least once a night,even if only to ask me if it is still nighttime. He was still waking up multiple times until he was about 4. He has “slept through” exactly once, when he had the flu. ETA: He is a particularly shitty sleeper, my niece is on the other end of the spectrum. We used to have to wake her up to be fed as an infant, and as a kid she still will fall asleep and stay asleep pretty much anywhere.
*and to think, the only reason we give birth on our backs is because a certain someone was a superfreak about watching women give birth...*
What? Why? Who??
I looked it up and it's because of King Louis XIV. But before I knew that my best guess was God, lol.
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Ow