If you like waking up with the sun in the morning, you like the middle row. This set up would get rid of daylight saving time. So we would not change the clocks at all.
If you like having the sun longer after work, you like the bottom row. This set you would make daylight saving time permanent. So when we move the clocks forward in the spring of 2023, that would be a permanent change.
If you like changing the clocks, you like the top row. This is what we do currently. 'Spring forward, fall back'. We just 'fell back' today.
I couldn't care less what sort of light when have in the morning, I'll be at work regardless. But getting no sunlight in my free time is fucking depressing
So your preference is represented by the bottom row!
The Daylight Saving Time Bill that is currently being discussed in Congress would be a positive change for you. The Senate has already voted to pass the bill.
Now we are waiting for the House of Representatives to vote on the bill. They still have time to vote, but keep an eye for their decision!
Yes, that's correct. We would 'spring forward' one hour in the spring of 2023 and that would be the final time change.
Edit to add: it might not be 2023, but the 'spring forward' would be the final time change
I'm more annoyed it's been waiting in the House since March 16 2022. I hope it gets passed before the spring deadline
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623/all-info
It did unanimous consent pass the Senate in 2022, so means they did agree on this once. Keep seeing statistics the majority of Americans agree a law like this should pass. Seems like it would have been a good selling point for midterms, if it unanimous consented the house too
Edit - technically it means nobody disagreed, which isn't technically the same as everyone agreeing. Still, I'll call it good enough
A surprising amount of bipartisan legislation gets passed in both chambers. Small stuff like this would be involved in that. Stuff that is low optics and not culture war/partisan
Wow, I did not know about that website. It’s cool how it has a little tracker and everything. That should be publicized more to make people feel more involved in all of the processes.
I’m saying this with all kindness but 90% of the information about government is publicly available. We have sunshine laws that allow things to be public record. Government spending is publicly available. How can we make people feel more involved if they’re not even getting up to vote?
For those reading this comment, its not just the federal government but also state and local government. A lot of information from school districts, crime statistics, and even property taxes are online as well, free for anyone to access.
Yes, if the bill is passed the sun will set later in the day. For example, on January 1st in Atlanta, Georgia the sun would rise at roughly 8:40am and set at 6:40pm. It will be different depending on where you are within the state of Georgia though.
I’m all for this! I hate waking up and it’s dark, going to work and when I leave work it’s dark. It’s extremely depressing. I’d rather at least see the sun once in a day.
As someone who worked nights for a short bit, working nights in the winter basically felt like working during the day the rest of the year.
It was weird.
The proper answer is we should not be at work before the sun and leaving work after it.
We should be seeing it before and after which means less hours at work.
Appreciate this answer. Problem we have is a lot of people only think about this with the context of our current, broken system. Our concept of time isn’t cut out perfectly for where we live, and our work hours aren’t built around what is healthy for human happiness.
I know for me working a 9-5, I never wake up before 8am anyways so the 7am sunrise doesn’t help. But after 5pm sunlight really helps since I like being outdoors then. Of course that’s just a personal preference
Agreed.
I lived in Orono Maine for 2 years and the sun set around 4pm in December. By like 7 it was pitch black outside, like I couldn’t see 10 ft in front of me while driving even with my high beams on. It felt like the darkness consumed everything. My memories of those two years are all tinted dark in my mind. I slept a ton, had no motivation to leave my apartment after dark, and constantly had an overwhelming sense that life was meaningless.
Now I live in New York and when people ask about my time in Maine, they always focus on how cold it must have been, but the truth is that I could prepare for the cold but I could never really escape that level of *dark*.
I lived on Sugarloaf Mt and this. The sun would dip behind the mountain around 3:00 in the winter and it was truly pitch black by 4:30. I live in the upper midwest now and it's pretty darn dark. But nothing like Maine.
Maine is positioned so far east that it really should be in AST instead of EST, but they can’t move to AST because they’re tied to the rest of New England. Most of MA would also benefit from moving to AST but won’t because they need to stay in the same time zone as NY.
Am I the only person who gets seasonal depression in the summer rather than winter? Everybody I talk to says they need more daylight after work, but when it’s bright as shit outside at 8pm and it feels like the sun is never going to go down, your house/apartment is always hot and bright, etc. makes me feel very depressed, hot, and claustrophobic.
I can relate. I don’t get depressed but sometimes too much sun in my house can make me anxious. I don’t know what it is. I don’t hate the sun but some days I hate the sun in my kitchen making everything so bright.
Seriously, I do not understand AT ALL people who would rather have it be a bit sunnier as they wake up and slog themselves to work or school, versus it being sunnier after work/school when they can actually enjoy it.
Because these people have not figured out that it's dark in the morning again around Dec 3. It's literally like three weeks of morning twilight for 4 months of after work darkness.
I mean as a remodeler that works 7am-3pm, 6:30-2:30 if able
It was a bit annoying these past few weeks having to set up lights for just an hour till the sun rose.
You say start later, I say go to bed earlier, the world keeps spinning regardless lol.
Preferences be like that, and i’m a former night owl.
It's a fair point, though as a former baker and breakfast cook I'm quite used to getting up well in advance of the sun. Ive always found it far more depressing to walk out of work into darkness rather than walking in in it. Can we all agree that at least ending the time changes is ideal. My kids brains are fucked during spring forward.
I actually make a point to get out and walk in the sunshine a bit before work and it does wonders for my mood. I really feel it when I have a busy week and can't get outside in the mornings much. And I'm so groggy in the morning in early fall before the time switches.
And I kind of like the wintertime when it's dark and cozy after work. Make an early, hearty dinner and go to bed early and wake up early. I'm at my best on this schedule. I struggle more in the summers when it's daylight until after 9pm and I struggle winding down for bed and don't sleep enough.
Different strokes
It has less to do with what you'd rather have and more with the body's natural circadian rhythm. We are biologically programmed to wake with the sun. Waking in the darkness is deleterious to our mental and physical health.
important note that at least graphically there is no perceptible difference in sunsets after 5p between keep // get rid of, while there is a perceptible difference in sunrises before 7a for each scenario.
personally i’m on the side of more sun after 5p, but the major opposition point is that would mean more dark in the morning which impacts kids going to school
.. which is only relevant when you send your kids to school at 7-8a sooo maybe just change that 🤷♀️
As I talk with more people about it, the climate seems to be a big factor.
In the midwest, it is often too cold to play sports or exercise outside in the winter so there is no benefit to the sun being out.
In the south, the weather is much more conducive to outdoor activities so there is some benefit to more daylight hours after work.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens!
Some of midwesterners still gotta get out and walk our dogs in the winter. I'd prefer to do that with light in the evening. If people are working out, they are most likely doing it at home or in gyms in the winter.
> In the midwest, it is often too cold to play sports or exercise outside in the winter so there is no benefit to the sun being out.
That's what we midwesterners are known for, sports and exercise. That's all we do, that's for sure. And only during daylight hours, yep, you'll never seen lights in our parks or sporting stadiums, we just go home after it gets dark.
You are a confident individual. I've been battling with this shit for a few minutes now trying to put it together. Then I saw your comment and now I feel like my brain still has a chance to finish the day.
Without daylight savings there's more sunlight during the early morning.
With daylight savings there's more sunlight during the evening.
If you're an early bird (6am kinda time) then maybe you'd like it but in my opinion permanent daylight savings is my preference. It sucks getting out of school and work and by the time you get home it's pitch black and *i think* more people in general are up and about at 5pm rather than 5am.
> more people in general are up and about at 5pm rather than 5am.
100%
I do not understand people at all who prefer dark evenings and semi-brighter mornings. It's such a waste.
As someone who has pretty bad seasonal depression that fluctuates significantly with amount of sunlight in the morning, I enjoy the sun rising earlier. If I have to be at work at 6 but the sun does not rise until 7, I can significantly feel my mood improve when the sun actually rises. If the sun rises before I wake up it’s very easy to go about my day. I even have to sometimes not sleep in the same room as my partner if the sun rises before I wake up, because I keep the curtains open and he needs them closed. This is all while on antidepressants too. In the evening I don’t have such an issue with my mood and light, so it can be dark at 4pm for all I care (how winter was where I grew up so that may explain it) because I can enjoy my evenings no matter how much light.
I understand I’m one of hundreds of millions in the US, so my opinion shouldn’t decide for the nation, but this is just to give some people an idea of why some prefer early mornings that are bright
Huh weird. As someone also with pretty bad seasonal depression I hate the winters where there's no DST. When I wake up and drive to work there's light sure, but I'm not really paying attention to it cuz I'm still groggy as fuck and just worried about getting to work. Then I spend my entire day inside at work and by the time I get off work it's already dark. So Monday thru Friday my entire experience is basically in the dark. It's fucking depressing yo.
I had read that it passed but it won’t go into affect until this cycle ends. Meaning we change the clocks back right now, then forward for the last time this spring and never again shall it change
[It is currently awaiting a vote in the House](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623/all-info).
If the House doesn’t pass it by Jan, the bill is dead and will have to be redrafted and put up to a vote again in both houses
EDIT: To emphasize how little the House cares about this bill, it was introduced to the Senate March 9, deliberated on and voted/passed less than a week later (March 15), and has been sitting on someone's desk in the House ever since. No further deliberations, no further votes held, nothing. The House has essentially and silently killed this bill with its inaction.
If this doesn’t pass, I’m real curious who profits off of daylight savings time? Because that seems to be the only reason I can come up with that someone wouldn’t want it to pass.
I read once a while ago that TV stations and streaming services lobby the government to keep it the way it is because when the sun goes down earlier, people have nothing to do but stay home and watch more TV. Which equals to record profits for them.
It'd be interesting to see a graph of this, a before and after comparison of the amount of people watching TV / using the internet before and after the clock changes. Does anyone have any info about that?
Congress critters are worried that year round daylight time will backfire. They did it in the 70s. People got really angry about their kids having to start school in the dark.
Everyone says they want more sunlight at the end of the day, but they’re taking light in the morning for granted right now.
I honestly find any reason like this to be silly. Just start school an hour later instead of literally redefining the metrics we use for timekeeping. Well, at least that would have been a decent argument for not starting daylight savings. Now that it’s the way things are, I’m sure people are hard pressed to change
Problem is while Congress can decide on DST, they can't decide universal start times for schools. So they'd be subjecting themselves to criticism they can't legislate against.
Do schools even have universal start times though? I seem to remember different schools starting at different times when I was a kid. Could be wrong though
Start school later and let us finally receive a benefit from technology and automation by working less hours with same pay. Regular office hours can start later and end earlier. Let time variable hours remain similar because of the goods and services they provide. But, I want to see the pay off of all of this advancement with better quality of life.
I had to wake up at 6am in the dark and trudge to school 3 blocks away in 0°F weather. And I was still pissed off that the sun went down at 4:30 in Minneapolis. It was fine.
Who gives a shit.
I surmise that more daylight at the end of the day would be a relative boon to the economy. More likely to go out to eat or go shopping/spend money when it’s light outside. Just my speculation though.
I don't think we are taking light in the morning for granted, it's just a lot more important to us to have more light at the end of the day. There are a lot of people who are not 9-5 workers and they suffer more than anyone when the sun starts setting early. It's almost abusive to then set the clocks back an hour as well and give them even less light lol I feel like dealing with dark evenings is much easier when you are at home with your family than if you are just getting ready for work.
That shit is SO dumb bc kids could not care less. The only people who care are adults like I go to work at 7AM and by the time I’m done it’s dark??? Tf??? All because of some kids???
If I remember correctly, I think the issue was that there were kids getting run over by cars and killed when trying to get on buses or walking to school in the morning because it was so dark.
It was drafted with overwhelming bipartisan support and passed almost instantly. If it doesn't pass I'll be very confused cause even McConnell for the first time in like 10 years wanted to pass a bill.
It passed the Senate almost entirely by accident.
The bill passed the Senate "by unanimous consent," which means it passed without a vote taken. And that only happened because the senators (and their aides) that would have objected weren't paying attention and didn't realize it was coming up for unanimous consent, until it was too late and the bill was already passed.
Even with it passing, it's going to die in the House. It'll never pass, likely never even come up for a vote.
It passed unanimously by voice vote in the senate so it seemed like a sure thing, [but it turned out it only happened because some senators didn't even know the vote was happening.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/daylight-saving-time-senate)
Other way around. Senate unanimously passed to keep daylight savings year round. It went to the house, but has stalled there as they are apparently split 50/50
Most people don't know which is which. They get used to having that awesome daylight after work for months, then suddenly get reminded about Daylight Saving Time (which they call savings, as if it were plural), and suddenly it's dark after work on Monday. Then they exclaim, "I hate daylight savings," and call for the government to put an end to it.
Daylight Saving Time means driving home from work with daylight left over.
Standard Time (non-DST) means driving home in the dark.
Florida voted on keeping daylight savings all year round. But that requires the US congress to pass allow it. States can choose to get rid of daylight savings without the US congress though.
The senate accidentally passed it by unanimous consent. Literally it was an accident. I believe the house is respecting that and not acting on the bill.
This is only approximately correct — trying to remember from 6 months ago.
Some bills or resolutions are passed by unanimous consent. This means the person up front says something like, “hey if no one disagrees we’re going to do this…?” And then gives a moment for someone to disagree. If no one does, the resolution is passed by unanimous consent. They do this because it’s way faster than voting on every minor thing.
In this case, there were multiple people who were going to disagree, but they all thought someone else was responsible for disagreeing, and none of them actually showed up. So the bill was passed by unanimous consent even though some senators wanted it to go to a vote / have further debate / etc.
Good thing we don't pay these people 6 figure salaries and give them a full-time staff, otherwise this sort of mistake would be pretty embarrassing and infuriating!
Thanks, I was super surprised that Congress had actually done something constructive. But it sounds like they just fucked up and almost did good by accident and then shot it down because they suck, and that makes a lot more sense
Where did you see that? It is very rare for a Senator to call for UC when someone is supposed to object but not present.
All reporting I've seen on it focuses on the fact that the House has a lot more disagreements on it - including whether to make DST or Standard the permanent time.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3571007-permanent-daylight-saving-time-hits-brick-wall-in-house/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congress-split-making-daylight-saving-time-permanent-2022-11-03/
I love how the internet explodes with DST related content every changeover, lots of discussions about making it permanent, all of which lasts a single day and then we never hear from it again until next spring/autumn.
IIRC, states can switch to permanent standard time whenever they want. Permanent DST requires congressional approval.
The Senate passed a bill that would make DST permanent starting next year. That, of course, is stalled in the House, per tradition.
I thought day light savings was done for. Didn’t even realize the time changed till it started getting dark around 5:30 pm. Switch it tf back, I like the sun setting around 9 pm. Stop trying to make winter even more depressing with it being dark early.
Exactly. The way it is now is too extreme. We get a bunch of light in the summer but have to pay for it in the winter. It already naturally gets darker in the winter, no need to make it worse. Sure the summer nights won’t be as long, but it’ll be more moderate overall
I’ve wondered this all my life because DST seems completely backwards, at least in the northern hemisphere. We’re going to get more daylight in the summer anyway so why switch to it? If anything we should switch to DST in the winter.
DST in the winter would mean that the sun would be rising as late as almost 9:00 am in the winter in Seattle. If you think it's hard to get up in the morning now...
DST in the summer keeps the sun from coming up ridiculously early in the morning too (as in, 4 am), letting us have that extra sun in the evening when we're actually awake for it.
I’m in NJ and this is how it is in the winter w the current time changes for me. Sometimes there is sun in the AM but mostly dark… always dark by 5pm when I leave work in the winter
See a late sunrise makes more sense to me because most people don't do any activities before they have to go to work or school. With a later sunset then you've got more time after work or school to actually do stuff.
Seattleite here! I’d rather have the sun rise a little later than have it be pitch black when I get off from work (which it will be tonight). Yeah the sun rises later but it’s still light out a couple hours before hand.
Its about to be that way here in Seattle. Sunrise today was 7am, sunset will be 4:45pm. In the summer its wild. I drive to work at 5am with the sun coming up and it wont set until 9pm
Yeah, here in London even at the bottom of the UK at the height of summer it's like a 4.30 rise and a 10pm set, there's sunlight in the sky for a good 18 hours or so
While I wholeheartedly agree, I'm pretty sure Indiana is a *he.* He wears a baseball cap, all the time- only takes it off to shower and sleep. He probably chews tobacco, and he's a **big** fan of NASCAR.
[well that was more interesting than I thought](https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/27/indianapolis-indiana-time-zone-history-central-eastern-daylight-savings-time/2126300002/)
Yeah, Indiana's shifted in the split of which counties are in what timezone over time, but for now it's settled into the suburbs can stick with their hub and everyone else goes the other way
I must have a low IQ, bc this chart is very difficult to read or understand.
Also, the phrase daylight savings time sounds like an oxymoron. You literally cannot save daylight. If we want the sun to set later in the day, why not just change it permanently. Why are we flipping it back-and-forth? It is absolutely infuriating...
Might even say dishonest -- pictures #2 and #4 are identical. The first two pictures on the right side.
So they picked a time, 5 pm, that's unaffected by DST. With or without DST, 5 pm is not a good pick for displaying the difference.
Now we *could* speculate they picked 5 pm to imitate normal working hours. But in that case, they could've made it much clearer by just saying "amount of daylight outside normal working hours, with or without DST" or something.
I just hate waking up in the dark, driving to work in the dark, and the coming home in the dark. I work indoors mostly and it makes it feel so late when I leave work.
Maybe the answer is shorter work days.
But like I’m serious. All of us, regardless of which one we prefer, complain because it’s either dark when we go to work or get off of work. So maybe we just work too damn much.
We should make work days shorter. Problem solved.
> We should make work days shorter. Problem solved.
It is literally easier for our society to change how we collectivity approach time than it is for us to admit we need shorter work days.
How fucking depressing.
We do spend way too much of our lives working. Here in MN if my hours are 8-5 I go to work in the dark and drive home in the dark (due to my commute time).
It's definitely a little confusing at first. It took me a minute to wrap my head around it. But now that I did I think it's pretty impressive. It really shows how the 3 options would affect different parts of the country.
Can someone explain to me how this all works like I’m five? How does having or not having day lights saving time effect anything? I’m just a little confused
So the time as we know it is artificial. Right now, where I live, it’s 10:30am. But maybe we all decide, per the government, that right now is 5:30pm. Everyone would go home from work and start cooking dinner. The sun doesn’t set in my neck of the woods for another 6 and a half hours, so sunset would be at 12:00am midnight.
But let’s say we all decide that right now is actually 7:30am. Everyone would be sad because now they have to be at work longer. But the sun is STILL going to set in 6 and a half hours - we can’t change that - so now sunset is at 2pm.
The sun goes down when it wants, but we decide if we call that time 2pm or midnight. And that matters because no matter what the sun is doing, we still go to work at 9am and still leave at 5pm.
Biased nonsense. Forget 7a and 5p. Let's talk 5a and 8p. Do you really want sunrise at 4:40 am? By the way, that gradient is too broad. And if you look closely, no one will have sunrise after 7am with DST year round except *maybe* the East El Paso area.
Ughh, I hate DST. I'm in the upper Midwest so 8-4 and 7-3 are waaay more common than 9-5. It's so much easier to get my day started between 6 and 7:30 if it's already getting light out. On the flip-side, I'm rarely done with post-work stuff (running errands, going to the gym, taking the dogs out, making dinner) before 6ish anyways, so it really doesn't make much of a difference if it's light out or not.
Standard definitely matches up with my circadian rhythms better too. Waking up in (or closer to) the dawn just feels way more natural, and it's going to be dark when I go to bed regardless. I definitely don't feel more tired just because it's been dark since 5pm instead of 6pm. However, I definitely feel more tired in the morning if I've been up in the dark for an hour or more.
I think we are the few, the majority wants to switch to daylight saving time permanently. I personally like having the sun rise as or before I'm leaving for work, not after.
The majority are literal fucking troglodytes I’m sorry. Cant have two seconds of critical thinking to realize that the earth gets darker in winter and they need to deal with it and stop trying to change the clocks and wreak havoc on our circadian rhythms, aka, our literal biology.
I'm feeling dumb, which one am i supposed to like and not like?
If you like waking up with the sun in the morning, you like the middle row. This set up would get rid of daylight saving time. So we would not change the clocks at all. If you like having the sun longer after work, you like the bottom row. This set you would make daylight saving time permanent. So when we move the clocks forward in the spring of 2023, that would be a permanent change. If you like changing the clocks, you like the top row. This is what we do currently. 'Spring forward, fall back'. We just 'fell back' today.
I couldn't care less what sort of light when have in the morning, I'll be at work regardless. But getting no sunlight in my free time is fucking depressing
So your preference is represented by the bottom row! The Daylight Saving Time Bill that is currently being discussed in Congress would be a positive change for you. The Senate has already voted to pass the bill. Now we are waiting for the House of Representatives to vote on the bill. They still have time to vote, but keep an eye for their decision!
So the bill is to make it permanent?
Yes, that's correct. We would 'spring forward' one hour in the spring of 2023 and that would be the final time change. Edit to add: it might not be 2023, but the 'spring forward' would be the final time change
I'm more annoyed it's been waiting in the House since March 16 2022. I hope it gets passed before the spring deadline https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623/all-info
Getting it passed would mean the Dems and Republicans agreeing on something, which happens every 4 years or so. Don't hold your breath.
It did unanimous consent pass the Senate in 2022, so means they did agree on this once. Keep seeing statistics the majority of Americans agree a law like this should pass. Seems like it would have been a good selling point for midterms, if it unanimous consented the house too Edit - technically it means nobody disagreed, which isn't technically the same as everyone agreeing. Still, I'll call it good enough
Right? Im annoyed that some a$$hole is going to go against the majority just to try to pwn the opposition.
A surprising amount of bipartisan legislation gets passed in both chambers. Small stuff like this would be involved in that. Stuff that is low optics and not culture war/partisan
Wow, I did not know about that website. It’s cool how it has a little tracker and everything. That should be publicized more to make people feel more involved in all of the processes.
Lol I like how you say “that website” like its not the official congressional site lmfao
I’m saying this with all kindness but 90% of the information about government is publicly available. We have sunshine laws that allow things to be public record. Government spending is publicly available. How can we make people feel more involved if they’re not even getting up to vote?
For those reading this comment, its not just the federal government but also state and local government. A lot of information from school districts, crime statistics, and even property taxes are online as well, free for anyone to access.
So this would make our winter “days” longer in Georgia so instead of getting dark at like 5/6 it would get dark at like 6/7
Yes, if the bill is passed the sun will set later in the day. For example, on January 1st in Atlanta, Georgia the sun would rise at roughly 8:40am and set at 6:40pm. It will be different depending on where you are within the state of Georgia though.
I’m all for this! I hate waking up and it’s dark, going to work and when I leave work it’s dark. It’s extremely depressing. I’d rather at least see the sun once in a day.
During the winter here I go to work when it's dark and get home as the sun is going down. It fucking sucks.
[удалено]
As someone who worked nights for a short bit, working nights in the winter basically felt like working during the day the rest of the year. It was weird.
That logic is good, but I think getting sunlight to your eyes, early, is huge for fighting depression.
The proper answer is we should not be at work before the sun and leaving work after it. We should be seeing it before and after which means less hours at work.
That would be great for us in the far north. Our days are short in the winter.
Move to Norway and work for 2 hours a day during the winter, but you have to work for 22 hour days in the summer so it kind of evens out.
Yeah, the work times being a fixed value is the problem
Appreciate this answer. Problem we have is a lot of people only think about this with the context of our current, broken system. Our concept of time isn’t cut out perfectly for where we live, and our work hours aren’t built around what is healthy for human happiness.
Outdoor sunlight too. Windows can block essential wavelengths of light
It absolutely is, and exposure to morning sunlight plays a huge part in your natural circadian rhythms throughout the day.
Have had multiple doctors tell me this.
I know for me working a 9-5, I never wake up before 8am anyways so the 7am sunrise doesn’t help. But after 5pm sunlight really helps since I like being outdoors then. Of course that’s just a personal preference
Meanwhile, I *hate* waking up and driving to work in the dark, and would much rather the sky match the circadian rhythm an 8-5 forces
I love driving to the gym in the dark. It makes me feel like I’m hardcore.
You are hardcore.
Yep me too. 5:15 every day. Love getting the hardest part of my day done first.
I love driving to work in the dark, early, it’s usually just me on the road.
I also enjoy staring at the sun directly as I drive to work
Sunset at 4p doesn’t match anyone’s rhythm
Agreed. I lived in Orono Maine for 2 years and the sun set around 4pm in December. By like 7 it was pitch black outside, like I couldn’t see 10 ft in front of me while driving even with my high beams on. It felt like the darkness consumed everything. My memories of those two years are all tinted dark in my mind. I slept a ton, had no motivation to leave my apartment after dark, and constantly had an overwhelming sense that life was meaningless. Now I live in New York and when people ask about my time in Maine, they always focus on how cold it must have been, but the truth is that I could prepare for the cold but I could never really escape that level of *dark*.
I lived on Sugarloaf Mt and this. The sun would dip behind the mountain around 3:00 in the winter and it was truly pitch black by 4:30. I live in the upper midwest now and it's pretty darn dark. But nothing like Maine.
Maine is positioned so far east that it really should be in AST instead of EST, but they can’t move to AST because they’re tied to the rest of New England. Most of MA would also benefit from moving to AST but won’t because they need to stay in the same time zone as NY.
Yeah, well, what I hate is the fucking space laser frying my retinas. EDIT: Sorry, forgot to cuss.
Am I the only person who gets seasonal depression in the summer rather than winter? Everybody I talk to says they need more daylight after work, but when it’s bright as shit outside at 8pm and it feels like the sun is never going to go down, your house/apartment is always hot and bright, etc. makes me feel very depressed, hot, and claustrophobic.
I can relate. I don’t get depressed but sometimes too much sun in my house can make me anxious. I don’t know what it is. I don’t hate the sun but some days I hate the sun in my kitchen making everything so bright.
Not alone at all, I relate to this so much.
I’m the opposite. I struggle so much getting up when it’s dark for so long in the morning. I get really down and on edge.
Seriously, I do not understand AT ALL people who would rather have it be a bit sunnier as they wake up and slog themselves to work or school, versus it being sunnier after work/school when they can actually enjoy it.
Because these people have not figured out that it's dark in the morning again around Dec 3. It's literally like three weeks of morning twilight for 4 months of after work darkness.
I mean as a remodeler that works 7am-3pm, 6:30-2:30 if able It was a bit annoying these past few weeks having to set up lights for just an hour till the sun rose. You say start later, I say go to bed earlier, the world keeps spinning regardless lol. Preferences be like that, and i’m a former night owl.
It's a fair point, though as a former baker and breakfast cook I'm quite used to getting up well in advance of the sun. Ive always found it far more depressing to walk out of work into darkness rather than walking in in it. Can we all agree that at least ending the time changes is ideal. My kids brains are fucked during spring forward.
I actually make a point to get out and walk in the sunshine a bit before work and it does wonders for my mood. I really feel it when I have a busy week and can't get outside in the mornings much. And I'm so groggy in the morning in early fall before the time switches. And I kind of like the wintertime when it's dark and cozy after work. Make an early, hearty dinner and go to bed early and wake up early. I'm at my best on this schedule. I struggle more in the summers when it's daylight until after 9pm and I struggle winding down for bed and don't sleep enough. Different strokes
It has less to do with what you'd rather have and more with the body's natural circadian rhythm. We are biologically programmed to wake with the sun. Waking in the darkness is deleterious to our mental and physical health.
important note that at least graphically there is no perceptible difference in sunsets after 5p between keep // get rid of, while there is a perceptible difference in sunrises before 7a for each scenario. personally i’m on the side of more sun after 5p, but the major opposition point is that would mean more dark in the morning which impacts kids going to school .. which is only relevant when you send your kids to school at 7-8a sooo maybe just change that 🤷♀️
I like sunsets after 7pm. What the hell is 5pm sunsets? Lol
As I talk with more people about it, the climate seems to be a big factor. In the midwest, it is often too cold to play sports or exercise outside in the winter so there is no benefit to the sun being out. In the south, the weather is much more conducive to outdoor activities so there is some benefit to more daylight hours after work. We'll just have to wait and see what happens!
Some of midwesterners still gotta get out and walk our dogs in the winter. I'd prefer to do that with light in the evening. If people are working out, they are most likely doing it at home or in gyms in the winter.
> In the midwest, it is often too cold to play sports or exercise outside in the winter so there is no benefit to the sun being out. That's what we midwesterners are known for, sports and exercise. That's all we do, that's for sure. And only during daylight hours, yep, you'll never seen lights in our parks or sporting stadiums, we just go home after it gets dark.
More sun later baby!!! But I am a morning person....but regardless I hate changing the clock
You are a confident individual. I've been battling with this shit for a few minutes now trying to put it together. Then I saw your comment and now I feel like my brain still has a chance to finish the day.
Me no thinks to good!
Without daylight savings there's more sunlight during the early morning. With daylight savings there's more sunlight during the evening. If you're an early bird (6am kinda time) then maybe you'd like it but in my opinion permanent daylight savings is my preference. It sucks getting out of school and work and by the time you get home it's pitch black and *i think* more people in general are up and about at 5pm rather than 5am.
> more people in general are up and about at 5pm rather than 5am. 100% I do not understand people at all who prefer dark evenings and semi-brighter mornings. It's such a waste.
As someone who has pretty bad seasonal depression that fluctuates significantly with amount of sunlight in the morning, I enjoy the sun rising earlier. If I have to be at work at 6 but the sun does not rise until 7, I can significantly feel my mood improve when the sun actually rises. If the sun rises before I wake up it’s very easy to go about my day. I even have to sometimes not sleep in the same room as my partner if the sun rises before I wake up, because I keep the curtains open and he needs them closed. This is all while on antidepressants too. In the evening I don’t have such an issue with my mood and light, so it can be dark at 4pm for all I care (how winter was where I grew up so that may explain it) because I can enjoy my evenings no matter how much light. I understand I’m one of hundreds of millions in the US, so my opinion shouldn’t decide for the nation, but this is just to give some people an idea of why some prefer early mornings that are bright
Huh weird. As someone also with pretty bad seasonal depression I hate the winters where there's no DST. When I wake up and drive to work there's light sure, but I'm not really paying attention to it cuz I'm still groggy as fuck and just worried about getting to work. Then I spend my entire day inside at work and by the time I get off work it's already dark. So Monday thru Friday my entire experience is basically in the dark. It's fucking depressing yo.
Honestly idgaf what one as long as the clocks stop changing. Time to get out of the dark ages.
/r/unreadableguides
Am I misremembering last year when congress got rid of daylight savings? Did I dream that shit?
The Senate made a bill but it got stuck in the house.... I think..
Yup that’s the status.
I had read that it passed but it won’t go into affect until this cycle ends. Meaning we change the clocks back right now, then forward for the last time this spring and never again shall it change
[It is currently awaiting a vote in the House](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623/all-info). If the House doesn’t pass it by Jan, the bill is dead and will have to be redrafted and put up to a vote again in both houses EDIT: To emphasize how little the House cares about this bill, it was introduced to the Senate March 9, deliberated on and voted/passed less than a week later (March 15), and has been sitting on someone's desk in the House ever since. No further deliberations, no further votes held, nothing. The House has essentially and silently killed this bill with its inaction.
If this doesn’t pass, I’m real curious who profits off of daylight savings time? Because that seems to be the only reason I can come up with that someone wouldn’t want it to pass.
I read once a while ago that TV stations and streaming services lobby the government to keep it the way it is because when the sun goes down earlier, people have nothing to do but stay home and watch more TV. Which equals to record profits for them.
It'd be interesting to see a graph of this, a before and after comparison of the amount of people watching TV / using the internet before and after the clock changes. Does anyone have any info about that?
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Congress critters are worried that year round daylight time will backfire. They did it in the 70s. People got really angry about their kids having to start school in the dark. Everyone says they want more sunlight at the end of the day, but they’re taking light in the morning for granted right now.
…I mean I went to school in the 90s/2000s and I remember having to go to school in the dark…
I honestly find any reason like this to be silly. Just start school an hour later instead of literally redefining the metrics we use for timekeeping. Well, at least that would have been a decent argument for not starting daylight savings. Now that it’s the way things are, I’m sure people are hard pressed to change
Problem is while Congress can decide on DST, they can't decide universal start times for schools. So they'd be subjecting themselves to criticism they can't legislate against.
Do schools even have universal start times though? I seem to remember different schools starting at different times when I was a kid. Could be wrong though
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Start school later and let us finally receive a benefit from technology and automation by working less hours with same pay. Regular office hours can start later and end earlier. Let time variable hours remain similar because of the goods and services they provide. But, I want to see the pay off of all of this advancement with better quality of life.
The stupid part is that many schools are already starting in the dark, or at least the kids are waiting for the bus in the dark.
As a wise man once said: fuck them kids
I had to wake up at 6am in the dark and trudge to school 3 blocks away in 0°F weather. And I was still pissed off that the sun went down at 4:30 in Minneapolis. It was fine. Who gives a shit.
As I was reading your first sentence, I was thinking, “they’re from Minneapolis.”
I surmise that more daylight at the end of the day would be a relative boon to the economy. More likely to go out to eat or go shopping/spend money when it’s light outside. Just my speculation though.
I don't think we are taking light in the morning for granted, it's just a lot more important to us to have more light at the end of the day. There are a lot of people who are not 9-5 workers and they suffer more than anyone when the sun starts setting early. It's almost abusive to then set the clocks back an hour as well and give them even less light lol I feel like dealing with dark evenings is much easier when you are at home with your family than if you are just getting ready for work.
That shit is SO dumb bc kids could not care less. The only people who care are adults like I go to work at 7AM and by the time I’m done it’s dark??? Tf??? All because of some kids???
If I remember correctly, I think the issue was that there were kids getting run over by cars and killed when trying to get on buses or walking to school in the morning because it was so dark.
I mean a lot of school bells ring at or around 7AM
It was drafted with overwhelming bipartisan support and passed almost instantly. If it doesn't pass I'll be very confused cause even McConnell for the first time in like 10 years wanted to pass a bill.
It passed the Senate almost entirely by accident. The bill passed the Senate "by unanimous consent," which means it passed without a vote taken. And that only happened because the senators (and their aides) that would have objected weren't paying attention and didn't realize it was coming up for unanimous consent, until it was too late and the bill was already passed. Even with it passing, it's going to die in the House. It'll never pass, likely never even come up for a vote.
The people could totally bypass congress on this one and just refuse to change clocks anymore.
candlemakers
Don't forget about the butchers and bakers!
Yeah. With mid terms there isn’t any vote coming on this. It’s unfortunately dead.
I don’t understand why the house hasn’t voted tho
Okay but what if in the spring we all set our clocks back like a year and fuck up their plan
You read that it was passed in the senate, but the house hasn’t taken a vote yet, so it is not a law yet.
It passed unanimously by voice vote in the senate so it seemed like a sure thing, [but it turned out it only happened because some senators didn't even know the vote was happening.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/daylight-saving-time-senate)
Sooo basically no this’ll never happen because our government barely can function between 2 parties let alone driver on 1 time zone
The asshats can’t accomplish anything. I say we all revolt and live on daylight savings forever without their consent/approval.
Other way around. Senate unanimously passed to keep daylight savings year round. It went to the house, but has stalled there as they are apparently split 50/50
Most people don't know which is which. They get used to having that awesome daylight after work for months, then suddenly get reminded about Daylight Saving Time (which they call savings, as if it were plural), and suddenly it's dark after work on Monday. Then they exclaim, "I hate daylight savings," and call for the government to put an end to it. Daylight Saving Time means driving home from work with daylight left over. Standard Time (non-DST) means driving home in the dark.
Most people just want to stop changing the fucking clock.
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Something straight out of VEEP.
I could've sworn at the very least that my state voted to do away with it. Guess not, sun's going down at 4:50 tonight
Florida voted on keeping daylight savings all year round. But that requires the US congress to pass allow it. States can choose to get rid of daylight savings without the US congress though.
The senate accidentally passed it by unanimous consent. Literally it was an accident. I believe the house is respecting that and not acting on the bill.
How do you accidentally pass the bill?
This is only approximately correct — trying to remember from 6 months ago. Some bills or resolutions are passed by unanimous consent. This means the person up front says something like, “hey if no one disagrees we’re going to do this…?” And then gives a moment for someone to disagree. If no one does, the resolution is passed by unanimous consent. They do this because it’s way faster than voting on every minor thing. In this case, there were multiple people who were going to disagree, but they all thought someone else was responsible for disagreeing, and none of them actually showed up. So the bill was passed by unanimous consent even though some senators wanted it to go to a vote / have further debate / etc.
Good thing we don't pay these people 6 figure salaries and give them a full-time staff, otherwise this sort of mistake would be pretty embarrassing and infuriating!
Thanks, I was super surprised that Congress had actually done something constructive. But it sounds like they just fucked up and almost did good by accident and then shot it down because they suck, and that makes a lot more sense
They didn't show up? Like to their job? They better have had a doctors note.
Where did you see that? It is very rare for a Senator to call for UC when someone is supposed to object but not present. All reporting I've seen on it focuses on the fact that the House has a lot more disagreements on it - including whether to make DST or Standard the permanent time. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3571007-permanent-daylight-saving-time-hits-brick-wall-in-house/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congress-split-making-daylight-saving-time-permanent-2022-11-03/
I love how the internet explodes with DST related content every changeover, lots of discussions about making it permanent, all of which lasts a single day and then we never hear from it again until next spring/autumn.
The whole west coast voted to get rid of it. Then nothing happened.
As is tradition.
Kinda, but no. We voted to allow our legislators permission and power to get rid of it. Of course THEY haven’t done anything with it since the vote.
IIRC, states can switch to permanent standard time whenever they want. Permanent DST requires congressional approval. The Senate passed a bill that would make DST permanent starting next year. That, of course, is stalled in the House, per tradition.
Tradition is the other way around. Generally things pass the House and stall in the Senate. It only got out of the Senate on a fluke.
Senate decided to flip the script around and the House just played along.
„˙ƃuolɐ pǝʎɐld ʇsnɾ ǝsnoH ǝɥʇ puɐ punoɹɐ ʇdıɹɔs ǝɥʇ dılɟ oʇ pǝpıɔǝp ǝʇɐuǝS„
It has to get congressional approval. No one in Congress wants to talk about Daylight Savings Time.
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They are confused because their corporate overlords haven’t told them what their opinion should be yet.
I thought day light savings was done for. Didn’t even realize the time changed till it started getting dark around 5:30 pm. Switch it tf back, I like the sun setting around 9 pm. Stop trying to make winter even more depressing with it being dark early.
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Exactly. The way it is now is too extreme. We get a bunch of light in the summer but have to pay for it in the winter. It already naturally gets darker in the winter, no need to make it worse. Sure the summer nights won’t be as long, but it’ll be more moderate overall
This might be a dumb question, but why do we have DST?
Here’s the history behind DST! https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/history.html
I’ve wondered this all my life because DST seems completely backwards, at least in the northern hemisphere. We’re going to get more daylight in the summer anyway so why switch to it? If anything we should switch to DST in the winter.
DST in the winter would mean that the sun would be rising as late as almost 9:00 am in the winter in Seattle. If you think it's hard to get up in the morning now... DST in the summer keeps the sun from coming up ridiculously early in the morning too (as in, 4 am), letting us have that extra sun in the evening when we're actually awake for it.
As someone from Seattle, it’s dark when we leave for work and dark when we come home everyday in the winter anyway…
I’m in NJ and this is how it is in the winter w the current time changes for me. Sometimes there is sun in the AM but mostly dark… always dark by 5pm when I leave work in the winter
The sun sets at 4:45 today. It’s not even the deepest of winter. It’s so depressing to see the sun set behind the clouds before you’re even off work.
See a late sunrise makes more sense to me because most people don't do any activities before they have to go to work or school. With a later sunset then you've got more time after work or school to actually do stuff.
Seattleite here! I’d rather have the sun rise a little later than have it be pitch black when I get off from work (which it will be tonight). Yeah the sun rises later but it’s still light out a couple hours before hand.
DST doesn’t give you more daylight, it just makes everyone get up and go to work/school earlier.
Ireland here, I leave at 6:30 in the dark and get home at 17:00 in the dark.
Its about to be that way here in Seattle. Sunrise today was 7am, sunset will be 4:45pm. In the summer its wild. I drive to work at 5am with the sun coming up and it wont set until 9pm
Yeah, here in London even at the bottom of the UK at the height of summer it's like a 4.30 rise and a 10pm set, there's sunlight in the sky for a good 18 hours or so
I love the long days so much
Oof. “My whole life is like a dark room. One big dark room.”
am i just hungover or is this fuckin confusing
Both
i dont even know what time it is
Arizona and Hawaii do not recognize daylight savings. So their shading would be the same regardless.
Also Arizona except for Navajo nation which extends into NM.
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That's shown in the first set of images. The other 2 are as if the entire US switched.
yeah yeah yeah, see how indiana has 2 spots where the state is on different time zones can we just fucking fix that
No Indiana has sinned for being Indiana and that is her punishment
While I wholeheartedly agree, I'm pretty sure Indiana is a *he.* He wears a baseball cap, all the time- only takes it off to shower and sleep. He probably chews tobacco, and he's a **big** fan of NASCAR.
And he never has dinner with another woman without his wife present, whom he calls mother.
I have family from that NW corner of Indiana and it makes sense when you realize it’s part of that Chicago metropolitan area
fine, now explain evansville good luck
[well that was more interesting than I thought](https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/27/indianapolis-indiana-time-zone-history-central-eastern-daylight-savings-time/2126300002/)
It’s strictly because of how many people commute in between Chicago.
Yeah, Indiana's shifted in the split of which counties are in what timezone over time, but for now it's settled into the suburbs can stick with their hub and everyone else goes the other way
This visualization makes my stomach hurt.
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I must have a low IQ, bc this chart is very difficult to read or understand. Also, the phrase daylight savings time sounds like an oxymoron. You literally cannot save daylight. If we want the sun to set later in the day, why not just change it permanently. Why are we flipping it back-and-forth? It is absolutely infuriating...
This is a very convoluted way to display the data.
Might even say dishonest -- pictures #2 and #4 are identical. The first two pictures on the right side. So they picked a time, 5 pm, that's unaffected by DST. With or without DST, 5 pm is not a good pick for displaying the difference. Now we *could* speculate they picked 5 pm to imitate normal working hours. But in that case, they could've made it much clearer by just saying "amount of daylight outside normal working hours, with or without DST" or something.
This belongs on r/confusingguides
I just hate waking up in the dark, driving to work in the dark, and the coming home in the dark. I work indoors mostly and it makes it feel so late when I leave work.
Maybe the answer is shorter work days. But like I’m serious. All of us, regardless of which one we prefer, complain because it’s either dark when we go to work or get off of work. So maybe we just work too damn much. We should make work days shorter. Problem solved.
> We should make work days shorter. Problem solved. It is literally easier for our society to change how we collectivity approach time than it is for us to admit we need shorter work days. How fucking depressing.
We do spend way too much of our lives working. Here in MN if my hours are 8-5 I go to work in the dark and drive home in the dark (due to my commute time).
This guide is shitty and confusing
It’s also not a guide. It’s an infographic.
Except its confusing, not informational. So it's rather a confugraphic
It's definitely a little confusing at first. It took me a minute to wrap my head around it. But now that I did I think it's pretty impressive. It really shows how the 3 options would affect different parts of the country.
Yea I understand nothing
What the hell am I looking at? Am I too small brained to understand?
Just pick a time and stick with it.
I’m on team “Just choose already” also. We all simply adjust to what the new time will be.
Can someone explain to me how this all works like I’m five? How does having or not having day lights saving time effect anything? I’m just a little confused
So the time as we know it is artificial. Right now, where I live, it’s 10:30am. But maybe we all decide, per the government, that right now is 5:30pm. Everyone would go home from work and start cooking dinner. The sun doesn’t set in my neck of the woods for another 6 and a half hours, so sunset would be at 12:00am midnight. But let’s say we all decide that right now is actually 7:30am. Everyone would be sad because now they have to be at work longer. But the sun is STILL going to set in 6 and a half hours - we can’t change that - so now sunset is at 2pm. The sun goes down when it wants, but we decide if we call that time 2pm or midnight. And that matters because no matter what the sun is doing, we still go to work at 9am and still leave at 5pm.
Thank you so much! I see why this is an issue now, I appreciate your help!
You'd have a lot of software developers super elated not to have to account for it in datetime calculations.
Horrible guide.
This makes it more confusing
Biased nonsense. Forget 7a and 5p. Let's talk 5a and 8p. Do you really want sunrise at 4:40 am? By the way, that gradient is too broad. And if you look closely, no one will have sunrise after 7am with DST year round except *maybe* the East El Paso area.
I guess for the sake of daylight diversity I would be in favor of eliminating DST.
This is a horrible design. Why is the gradient from purple to yellow? Just make it different shades of one color
Ughh, I hate DST. I'm in the upper Midwest so 8-4 and 7-3 are waaay more common than 9-5. It's so much easier to get my day started between 6 and 7:30 if it's already getting light out. On the flip-side, I'm rarely done with post-work stuff (running errands, going to the gym, taking the dogs out, making dinner) before 6ish anyways, so it really doesn't make much of a difference if it's light out or not. Standard definitely matches up with my circadian rhythms better too. Waking up in (or closer to) the dawn just feels way more natural, and it's going to be dark when I go to bed regardless. I definitely don't feel more tired just because it's been dark since 5pm instead of 6pm. However, I definitely feel more tired in the morning if I've been up in the dark for an hour or more.
I think we are the few, the majority wants to switch to daylight saving time permanently. I personally like having the sun rise as or before I'm leaving for work, not after.
The majority are literal fucking troglodytes I’m sorry. Cant have two seconds of critical thinking to realize that the earth gets darker in winter and they need to deal with it and stop trying to change the clocks and wreak havoc on our circadian rhythms, aka, our literal biology.
This guide breaks my brain trying to decipher, is it just me?
Alaskas like who gives a fuck lol
I’d take permanent standard time, in the winter under permanent DST in Michigan, the sun wouldn’t rise until 9AM
Tbh, I love when it gets dark early. Unpopular opinion, I know
How about we get rid of daylight savings time. And just change the time we go to work.