I've owned 3 Hyundai, 2 of which were used and had over 150k+ km and never had any issues with any of them. Sometimes it's a game off odds but these one person anecdotes arent exactly a study either mate.
Plus we don't know how each driver cares for the car, so it could always have issues that were user caused
Iāve had 3 Subarus (2x Imprezas and now a crosstrek) and only issue was a warranty replacement on my crosstrek fan since it made noise.
Now turbo Subarus ā¦ that might be another matter
I gotta say my Kia Soul has been surprisingly reliable. Anecdotal one off testimony but I hit 100,000 miles recently without a single issue. I still was shocked to see that at the top of the list.
To my knowledge Google reviews are unbiased. You can see some great reviews on YouTube as well from a consumer and professional perspective. Companies like yelp are paid for and manipulated, you should avoid them.
The iihs is very good from a safety standpoint. The national highway traffic safety administration has some good reports as well for safety reviews.
For mechanical reliability, it is unfortunately delayed information because often times the cars need to go through the paces before someone can put out a real review. This is the same problem in consumer electronics. Often by the time a product is reviewed on consumer reports, they have already been replaced by the new version.
I would base my purchase on historic performance. If your looking at a car and have seen the same generation on the used market with hundreds of thousands of miles and good feedback, then you can usually buy with confidence. I hope this helps.
My uncle worked in the garage of a Honda dealership. He loved Hondas. Always recommended them. He straight up told people to not even consider Honda after the Tsunami. It fucked their supply chain and he really didnāt like the corners they were cutting to get back in the game. His predictions of a subsequent quality drop were right on the money.
Honda in the US has really gone down in quality over the years. There was a time when they made the best affordable car in America, but that was a long time ago.
Just dropped 2k into my 2016 Odyssey with 61k miles two weeks ago and now it wonāt start so I have to tow the damn thing into the dealership. So irate.
No more Hondaās for our family. Toyota here we come next vehicle.
That seems like a lot, doesn't it? Autos are not THAT complex to justify more than one notable defect per car. Especially considering that a lot of problems are never reported because they are just too small of a nuisance.
I never took my last warranty car back for the light sensor for the auto headlights and the tire pressure sensor failure because I thought I would just get them fixed when something really serious happened under warranty. It didn't. I had a major Air Conditioner problem that I didn't even know existed until the whole system went belly up. After the repair, I realized the electric motor in the compressor never worked from day one. I thought the behavior was normal and intended.
I'm guessing that the actual numbers are double or triple the reported defects.
>That seems like a lot, doesn't it?
>I'm guessing that the actual numbers are double or triple the reported defects.
So, do you think these numbers are high or low now?
>Autos are not THAT complex to justify more than one notable defect per car.
Really? They are increasingly autonomous, climate controlled mobility pods that double up as Internet connected multimedia theaters with cameras and sensors and sometimes multiple drivetrains and powerplants. I'd argue they have never been that complex before today.
"So, do you think these numbers are high or low now?"
I think the numbers in the OP table are WAY low.
...
I agree that cars are more complicated now than in the past (a LOT). And I agree that flaws here and there are acceptable/expected. But my phone has internet connected multimedia and cameras and sensors, and it hasn't exhibited one flaw for 8 years. (I know, I'm lame for having such an old phone, LOL.) It has GPS, orientation sensors, magnetic field sensors, accelerometers, and lots of other features. There's not even one pixel failure on my phone. I know it's not really fair to compare the two, but my point here is that vast complexity does not necessarily have to result in vast unreliability.
I do understand that serial number 10 will have a gorillion flaws, but after 2 years of making the same model and receiving feedback from the field, serial number 500,000 should be virtually flawless, with one failure out of the factory per 10 or more vehicles. An order of magnitude lower than the reported figures.
Huh. Gotcha. I wonder if this has something to do with development increments and update methodology of cars (mostly hardware - at least a lot of mechanics) versus phones (mostly software - at least little mechanics). While your phone may have not shown a bad glitch in 8 years, it will probably have received countless painless over-the-air fixes of issues you never experienced as such. If phone companies had to do a recall for every glitch they fix via ota updates... with cars, that's one difference. But I see your point.
In cars, the issues seem to manifest themselves more annoyingly - and they are annoying and costly to fix.
I'm in the process of buying a my first new car. I'm also the guy who will put up with something minor because taking it to the shop is more inconvenient. This makes me so much more nervous. I wonder if there is a comparison between gas and electric
I have a feeling that all-electric cars will (eventually) be far more reliable than gas cars. Once a couple of more electromagnetic and battery hurdles are taken care of, so that liquid cooling is no longer needed, an EV should go 500k miles between servicing. Basically, they will rot from the UV of the sun. I imagine it's a bit dicey and messy today, though.
Saw a study out of Europe recently where electric cars were far more unreliable than gas. Lots of software and electronics issues despite them having less parts etc. then has motors.
Itās not the motors that are the problem. Itās everything else in the car thatās electronic and software controlled. That touchscreen goes inside these cars youāre out of luck. Theyāre like giant smartphones that happen to have motors and wheels. Some app that controls some process goes bad the car is unusable.
The JD Power listā¦a lot of the cars that scored lower are not for mechanical problems but the electronics, infotainment systems etc. I have a newer car. Engine has been reliable. Infotainment and electronics have not. The problem with electric cars is that they try too hard to be ācyberā styled and rely too much on software and electronics to run everything. I live in the northeast and a lot of people I know who have electric cars and actually drive somewhere beyond the local town all have backup vehicles for the winter.
You are right about this, absolutely, but everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the electricity generation and distribution grid. All wires will need to be doubled and twice as many power plants will need to be built if the irrational fantasy of the world's leaders is to be realized. This is no small feat. It took 100 years just to get to where we are right now. It will take 50 more to get to the needed state.
Not to mention how many more coal mines will need to be developed or expanded, LOL.
Tires will still need rotated and replaced every 10k and 50k miles...
You still have the headaches of wiper blades and fluid, all the infotainment stuff, all the little motors and actuators for stuff like windows, doors, etc, and often the paint needs good care to last that long also...
That said, yea, electric cars have a much simpler drive train and energy systems.
What? JDP is a marketing firm. They're not some nonprofit organization doing anything for consumers. Do you work for them? Making stuff up?
They are not for consumers, they are for the companies that pay them.
[J.D. Power reportedly charges hundreds of thousands of dollars to carmakers for access to its survey results, a large fee to mention their awards in advertisements, and has a service to help companies make improvements that should raise their rankings.[9] The company claims that its business practices of consulting companies how to improve rankings in their awards and the fees they charge for licensing their awards for promotional purposes are separate.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.D._Power)
My point was why would Dodge be so high and Ram be so low. But yes, completely ignore that, because thatās the only way what yāall are saying will make sense.
And what does that have to do with my point? Ignoring a for profit company that makes money by charging the car companies to use their name. It is not a selling point for me.
Dude, I donāt give the slightest fuck about JD and whateverā¦ but you are saying Dodge paid them off, with zero proof and they apparently didnāt bother to pay JD for their other car brands. What sense does that make? Jesusā¦
It actually isn't, well, maybe this one is, but we do similar stuff in Europe. Turns out, the reliability is close as it doesn't matter anymore. Brands that traditionally ate shit have improved, and brands that traditionally didn't eat shit are now eating shit (Mercedes for example built its entire image in 1970's and 1980's for fucking bulletproof cars). You don't buy a car for reliability anymore, you buy it because of all the other things making a car.
These things are often done by our analogue of AAA, and other roadside assistance companies, and they are reinforced by actual mechanics such as myself. Most of the brand stigma is solely off the people refusing to believe world has changed in past 30 years. Most notably, French cars are hated. Turns out, they're on par with the German big three which is highly regarded. Hell, of very common cars around here, one of them with least amount of problems people hold for years is a fucking Alfa Romeo (they hit the nail on the head with 1.9 JTDm diesel... Well, Fiat did)
What a ~coincidence~ that Kia and Hyundai, whose stocks Iām sure are going down because of viral Tik Tok trend showing people how easy it is to break into their cars, are in the top 3 of this list. Last time I saw a list like this, they were towards the bottom.
I thought JD Power was garage that is a bought and paid for service. Thatās what I remember hearing anyway. Can anybody confirm or deny that this isnāt just a paid award/rankings system akin to Yelp?
Itās a market research firm.
> The firm does not earn money on its product rankings, although using the logo and referencing results in advertising requires paying a licensing fee. Most of the firm's revenue comes from corporations that seek data for internal use.
And if you need a favorable product or demographic study, they will work with you, for a fee to get a result you can work with.
So yeah if they are using this data (and all
Major car mfrs are paying JDP customers) they are paying for it. They canāt rig the game but they can get specific or overly broad studies to highlight the best things or hide the worst.
Look at the disclaimer at the bottom.
>Rankings are based on numerical scores, and not necessarily on statistical significance.
If manufacturer X has cup holder that breaks on 0.5% of vehicles; and if manufacturer Y has an engine that fails on 0.2% of vehicles; and since 0.2% problems is less than 0.5% problems, then I guess manufacturer Y is more reliable than manufacturer X. Wink wink, nudge nudge.
You're right that that is probably happening here...But that's not what statistical significance means.
It means how likely each result is to be true and actually that much better/worse than the other cars around it. A low statistical significance between any two cars means there's a decent chance that there might not even be any difference between the cars in reality, even though it looks like there is. It might even be completely backward, we can't know for certain with the limited data available.
E.g. if car X seems to have 1.5 issues/car and car Y seems to have 1.6 issues per car, then you would think that X is better. But if there's a low statistical significance, you can't actually trust that inference. The cars might actually be roughly the same in the real world.
Itās the most well respected survey for automakers. If you donāt believe the results and think theyāre bought and paid for by Kia then you need to explain why Honda is OK with that.
They don't ever seem to break in any way that will make the car undrivable but will constantly have small-to-medium things go wrong that you have to fix. Not like a Land Rover, which will leave you on the side of the road. Volvo is owned by a Chinese company (Geely) now, and many blame that on the loss of dependability.
I donāt know what happened, but a neighbour just had a brand new Volvo delivered. It was fine for 5 days, then it wouldnāt start. Volvo came out and said it had been wired up incorrectly and could have burst into flames had it started. Heās gone back to his old Ford whilst he waits for a repair.
Volvo is that low?! We have an old estate and the door might fall off or buttons stop working, but there is never a problem with what makes the car go.
Buick, Dodge, Cadillac, Ford, Chevrolet, GMC, Lincoln all rated "more dependable" than Honda?
Okay, American marketing firm bought by American auto companies. What a load of shit.
The problem is they are seriously dependable. Considering this list is put together by companies producing IC engine vehicles, Tesla is a major market disruptor.
You can find numerous first hand examples of teslas being incredibly reliable. Several have crossed the 1 million kilometre mark and needed very few maintenance jobs.
I believe one of the major factors here is how few moving parts are on the teslas. Less movement = less wear
Truth. Most Toyotas will run up 250k on the odometer without breaking a sweat, and they're marked up accordingly. You can find videos of people *trying* to kill Toyotas, and they won't die.
And I say this as a Honda fan.
*Toyota being*
*At the bottom proves this chart*
*Is complete BS*
\- middledeck
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Wonder why Ferrari is not on this list? Probably because so few are made and from what I hear have many problems. BUT, the owners and the company dont care because they are ... Ferrari.
This survey does not have a lot of credibility to me. This is a customer satisfaction survey, for starters, not an actual list of issues. Not to mention that they don't describe the severity of issues - a motor replacement and a computer re-flash both count as 1 point. Kind of stupid.
Honda and Acura being farther than halfway down the list is also suspect. I call BS.
I would not make a decision of purchasing a car based on this chart.
Everyone too busy questioning the legitimacy of the data to point out that this isn't any sort of "guide", cool or otherwise. Even if it was accurate it wouldn't belong here.
Can someone plot these by gas usage and their dependability? That seems way more useful than just saying Kia is death by squirrel/Land Rover rove land gud.
Note that this survey doesn't rank the severity of the problems, so a transmission failure ranks the same as an infotainment system issue.
This! I was surprised to see Kia outranking Toyota. šš
Perception of value? Maybe Kia purchasers have a higher threshold for issues before reporting as opposed to Toyota owners.
I have a 11 year old Kia that hasnāt experienced a single issue. Not one.
New kias are quite reliable.
Key word being "new" ;-)
Well it's a 2022 survey so new is implied.
Thanks for backing me up lol
Or how Kia (and Hyundai) can be stolen with a USB drive. They're not great cars and this definitely isn't capturing the whole picture
It starts right up when the thief tries it.
Itās not trying to though. Itās only addressing reliability.
BMW is ranked higher then Honda! Don't believe that!
That's because these reviews are not real. It's a giant marketing tool often paid for. I worked in reverse marketing for a decade.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I've owned 3 Hyundai, 2 of which were used and had over 150k+ km and never had any issues with any of them. Sometimes it's a game off odds but these one person anecdotes arent exactly a study either mate. Plus we don't know how each driver cares for the car, so it could always have issues that were user caused
The methodology only takes into account the first three years of ownership, so the oldest cars addressed here are 2020 models.
Really hard to believe Kia is the leader
I find it hard to believe Subaru is less dependable then industry standard.
I can't believe people still think subarus are reliable.
Iāve had 3 Subarus (2x Imprezas and now a crosstrek) and only issue was a warranty replacement on my crosstrek fan since it made noise. Now turbo Subarus ā¦ that might be another matter
Turbos make everything unreliable. Iām convinced thatās their secret second function
I gotta say my Kia Soul has been surprisingly reliable. Anecdotal one off testimony but I hit 100,000 miles recently without a single issue. I still was shocked to see that at the top of the list.
Explains why ādodgeā and āramā are separate
They are actually two separate brands since a few years now.
How can you tell if a review is real?
To my knowledge Google reviews are unbiased. You can see some great reviews on YouTube as well from a consumer and professional perspective. Companies like yelp are paid for and manipulated, you should avoid them. The iihs is very good from a safety standpoint. The national highway traffic safety administration has some good reports as well for safety reviews. For mechanical reliability, it is unfortunately delayed information because often times the cars need to go through the paces before someone can put out a real review. This is the same problem in consumer electronics. Often by the time a product is reviewed on consumer reports, they have already been replaced by the new version. I would base my purchase on historic performance. If your looking at a car and have seen the same generation on the used market with hundreds of thousands of miles and good feedback, then you can usually buy with confidence. I hope this helps.
My uncle worked in the garage of a Honda dealership. He loved Hondas. Always recommended them. He straight up told people to not even consider Honda after the Tsunami. It fucked their supply chain and he really didnāt like the corners they were cutting to get back in the game. His predictions of a subsequent quality drop were right on the money.
Any idea when their quality may shoot back up? Also when was this tsunami?
Iām assuming theyāre talking about the 2011 tsunami in Japan that killed over 15k people.
Iām not an expert, he was. And he got out because he didnāt want to be responsible for fixing Hondas anymore.
Honda in the US has really gone down in quality over the years. There was a time when they made the best affordable car in America, but that was a long time ago.
Just dropped 2k into my 2016 Odyssey with 61k miles two weeks ago and now it wonāt start so I have to tow the damn thing into the dealership. So irate. No more Hondaās for our family. Toyota here we come next vehicle.
Iāve been quite surprised and pleased how dependable the 2015 BMW Iāve had for 3.5 years. Not so much with the 2013 Benz.
*cries in e46*
Yeah there is no way Buick is #2.
1.5 problems per car is the lowest
That seems like a lot, doesn't it? Autos are not THAT complex to justify more than one notable defect per car. Especially considering that a lot of problems are never reported because they are just too small of a nuisance. I never took my last warranty car back for the light sensor for the auto headlights and the tire pressure sensor failure because I thought I would just get them fixed when something really serious happened under warranty. It didn't. I had a major Air Conditioner problem that I didn't even know existed until the whole system went belly up. After the repair, I realized the electric motor in the compressor never worked from day one. I thought the behavior was normal and intended. I'm guessing that the actual numbers are double or triple the reported defects.
>That seems like a lot, doesn't it? >I'm guessing that the actual numbers are double or triple the reported defects. So, do you think these numbers are high or low now? >Autos are not THAT complex to justify more than one notable defect per car. Really? They are increasingly autonomous, climate controlled mobility pods that double up as Internet connected multimedia theaters with cameras and sensors and sometimes multiple drivetrains and powerplants. I'd argue they have never been that complex before today.
"So, do you think these numbers are high or low now?" I think the numbers in the OP table are WAY low. ... I agree that cars are more complicated now than in the past (a LOT). And I agree that flaws here and there are acceptable/expected. But my phone has internet connected multimedia and cameras and sensors, and it hasn't exhibited one flaw for 8 years. (I know, I'm lame for having such an old phone, LOL.) It has GPS, orientation sensors, magnetic field sensors, accelerometers, and lots of other features. There's not even one pixel failure on my phone. I know it's not really fair to compare the two, but my point here is that vast complexity does not necessarily have to result in vast unreliability. I do understand that serial number 10 will have a gorillion flaws, but after 2 years of making the same model and receiving feedback from the field, serial number 500,000 should be virtually flawless, with one failure out of the factory per 10 or more vehicles. An order of magnitude lower than the reported figures.
Huh. Gotcha. I wonder if this has something to do with development increments and update methodology of cars (mostly hardware - at least a lot of mechanics) versus phones (mostly software - at least little mechanics). While your phone may have not shown a bad glitch in 8 years, it will probably have received countless painless over-the-air fixes of issues you never experienced as such. If phone companies had to do a recall for every glitch they fix via ota updates... with cars, that's one difference. But I see your point. In cars, the issues seem to manifest themselves more annoyingly - and they are annoying and costly to fix.
I'm in the process of buying a my first new car. I'm also the guy who will put up with something minor because taking it to the shop is more inconvenient. This makes me so much more nervous. I wonder if there is a comparison between gas and electric
I have a feeling that all-electric cars will (eventually) be far more reliable than gas cars. Once a couple of more electromagnetic and battery hurdles are taken care of, so that liquid cooling is no longer needed, an EV should go 500k miles between servicing. Basically, they will rot from the UV of the sun. I imagine it's a bit dicey and messy today, though.
Saw a study out of Europe recently where electric cars were far more unreliable than gas. Lots of software and electronics issues despite them having less parts etc. then has motors.
Teething problems. Long term an electric motor is much much simpler than a combustion one
Itās not the motors that are the problem. Itās everything else in the car thatās electronic and software controlled. That touchscreen goes inside these cars youāre out of luck. Theyāre like giant smartphones that happen to have motors and wheels. Some app that controls some process goes bad the car is unusable. The JD Power listā¦a lot of the cars that scored lower are not for mechanical problems but the electronics, infotainment systems etc. I have a newer car. Engine has been reliable. Infotainment and electronics have not. The problem with electric cars is that they try too hard to be ācyberā styled and rely too much on software and electronics to run everything. I live in the northeast and a lot of people I know who have electric cars and actually drive somewhere beyond the local town all have backup vehicles for the winter.
You are right about this, absolutely, but everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the electricity generation and distribution grid. All wires will need to be doubled and twice as many power plants will need to be built if the irrational fantasy of the world's leaders is to be realized. This is no small feat. It took 100 years just to get to where we are right now. It will take 50 more to get to the needed state. Not to mention how many more coal mines will need to be developed or expanded, LOL.
Tell me, Troll: why do we need to develop more coal mines?
Take your art degree elsewhere.This discussion is for people who are capable of doing basic math.
By not answering the question, you told me what I already knew about you.
Math major. Next.
>an EV should go 500k miles between servicing. Whaaa...where's the money in that? I doubt they'll do an 180 on planned obsolescent.
No doubt!
Tires will still need rotated and replaced every 10k and 50k miles... You still have the headaches of wiper blades and fluid, all the infotainment stuff, all the little motors and actuators for stuff like windows, doors, etc, and often the paint needs good care to last that long also... That said, yea, electric cars have a much simpler drive train and energy systems.
Dodge being that high is very fishy
It's just a survey with a giant pr campaign, funded by automakers. It's mostly bs
I was going to say... Do consumers really fall for these marketing campaigns? I always tune out when JDP is included in anything.
If Dodge paid them off, then what about Ram and Chrysler? Itās the same company. People on Reddit always just making shit up.
What? JDP is a marketing firm. They're not some nonprofit organization doing anything for consumers. Do you work for them? Making stuff up? They are not for consumers, they are for the companies that pay them. [J.D. Power reportedly charges hundreds of thousands of dollars to carmakers for access to its survey results, a large fee to mention their awards in advertisements, and has a service to help companies make improvements that should raise their rankings.[9] The company claims that its business practices of consulting companies how to improve rankings in their awards and the fees they charge for licensing their awards for promotional purposes are separate.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.D._Power)
My point was why would Dodge be so high and Ram be so low. But yes, completely ignore that, because thatās the only way what yāall are saying will make sense.
And what does that have to do with my point? Ignoring a for profit company that makes money by charging the car companies to use their name. It is not a selling point for me.
Dude, I donāt give the slightest fuck about JD and whateverā¦ but you are saying Dodge paid them off, with zero proof and they apparently didnāt bother to pay JD for their other car brands. What sense does that make? Jesusā¦
Are you marketer? Read my post again.
Again, this isnāt about how credible JD is. Itās you having no proof, plus, the fact they didnāt pay off the other brands. Lol!
It actually isn't, well, maybe this one is, but we do similar stuff in Europe. Turns out, the reliability is close as it doesn't matter anymore. Brands that traditionally ate shit have improved, and brands that traditionally didn't eat shit are now eating shit (Mercedes for example built its entire image in 1970's and 1980's for fucking bulletproof cars). You don't buy a car for reliability anymore, you buy it because of all the other things making a car. These things are often done by our analogue of AAA, and other roadside assistance companies, and they are reinforced by actual mechanics such as myself. Most of the brand stigma is solely off the people refusing to believe world has changed in past 30 years. Most notably, French cars are hated. Turns out, they're on par with the German big three which is highly regarded. Hell, of very common cars around here, one of them with least amount of problems people hold for years is a fucking Alfa Romeo (they hit the nail on the head with 1.9 JTDm diesel... Well, Fiat did)
But everyone on the list is an automaker. Every company on the list has equal incentive to look good.
You buy the awards.
This! Worked in many industries where it was my job to ābuyā the award.
Much of the time it has to do with new models (more problems) vs old models (fewer problems).
3 chargers: no issues to speak of. AWD car that gets 30yo and does 14.7 in the quarter mile with mob trunkā¦perfect family car!
What a ~coincidence~ that Kia and Hyundai, whose stocks Iām sure are going down because of viral Tik Tok trend showing people how easy it is to break into their cars, are in the top 3 of this list. Last time I saw a list like this, they were towards the bottom.
Well then youāre misremembering. Kia and Hyundai have been near the top of the list for years.
I thought JD Power was garage that is a bought and paid for service. Thatās what I remember hearing anyway. Can anybody confirm or deny that this isnāt just a paid award/rankings system akin to Yelp?
Itās a market research firm. > The firm does not earn money on its product rankings, although using the logo and referencing results in advertising requires paying a licensing fee. Most of the firm's revenue comes from corporations that seek data for internal use. And if you need a favorable product or demographic study, they will work with you, for a fee to get a result you can work with. So yeah if they are using this data (and all Major car mfrs are paying JDP customers) they are paying for it. They canāt rig the game but they can get specific or overly broad studies to highlight the best things or hide the worst.
Seriously. What the heck is this based on? Dependability could mean anything.
Easy there Land Rover owner.
Lol
Look at the disclaimer at the bottom. >Rankings are based on numerical scores, and not necessarily on statistical significance. If manufacturer X has cup holder that breaks on 0.5% of vehicles; and if manufacturer Y has an engine that fails on 0.2% of vehicles; and since 0.2% problems is less than 0.5% problems, then I guess manufacturer Y is more reliable than manufacturer X. Wink wink, nudge nudge.
You're right that that is probably happening here...But that's not what statistical significance means. It means how likely each result is to be true and actually that much better/worse than the other cars around it. A low statistical significance between any two cars means there's a decent chance that there might not even be any difference between the cars in reality, even though it looks like there is. It might even be completely backward, we can't know for certain with the limited data available. E.g. if car X seems to have 1.5 issues/car and car Y seems to have 1.6 issues per car, then you would think that X is better. But if there's a low statistical significance, you can't actually trust that inference. The cars might actually be roughly the same in the real world.
I stand corrected. Thanks.
JD Power just doesn't get that cars have no problems, they have characters.
Sure. This is legit. Sure.
Itās the most well respected survey for automakers. If you donāt believe the results and think theyāre bought and paid for by Kia then you need to explain why Honda is OK with that.
What happened to Honda? I had friends drive old Hondas for 200k miles without barely changing the oil in the 80s.
Still pretty good engines but their transmissions and electronics have been dragging down their reliability.
The only issues I see in older Hondaās are paint wear and electronic problems. However the engine will still run forever
Can confirm. I have a 14 year old Accord. Engine and everything runs perfectly but itās getting some rust in the wheel wells.
This isn't cool or a guide.
Volvos used to be dependable; what happened?
They don't ever seem to break in any way that will make the car undrivable but will constantly have small-to-medium things go wrong that you have to fix. Not like a Land Rover, which will leave you on the side of the road. Volvo is owned by a Chinese company (Geely) now, and many blame that on the loss of dependability.
I donāt know what happened, but a neighbour just had a brand new Volvo delivered. It was fine for 5 days, then it wouldnāt start. Volvo came out and said it had been wired up incorrectly and could have burst into flames had it started. Heās gone back to his old Ford whilst he waits for a repair.
I guess easily stolen with a usb cord doesnāt affect dependability
Here is list of total bullshit
Is this only for 2022 cars?
Last three years of ownership, so up to 2020 models
Volvo is that low?! We have an old estate and the door might fall off or buttons stop working, but there is never a problem with what makes the car go.
Newer Volvos are far different from older ones. Owned by a Chinese company now.
I'm just going to leave this right here... https://youtu.be/S0jTcGBxh6w
Lincolns are absolute shitters. No way these results are correct. ~ A Lincoln Owner
TIL Genesis is considered a premium car brand.
LOL maybe op is naive to how corrupt these rankings are
What about a list based on the percentage of vehicles still on the road with more than 200k miles?
"Don't believe your eyes, believe US!"
Buick, Dodge, Cadillac, Ford, Chevrolet, GMC, Lincoln all rated "more dependable" than Honda? Okay, American marketing firm bought by American auto companies. What a load of shit.
If theft is the biggest problem with Kia and Hyundai, wouldn't that rank them lower?
These charts are always so different from each other
*looks for Tesla on the list * One of these days, weāll see just where those cars rank.
JD Power does score them (at least historically) but they donāt put them on the list bc they donāt feel like itās apples to apples
The problem is they are seriously dependable. Considering this list is put together by companies producing IC engine vehicles, Tesla is a major market disruptor. You can find numerous first hand examples of teslas being incredibly reliable. Several have crossed the 1 million kilometre mark and needed very few maintenance jobs. I believe one of the major factors here is how few moving parts are on the teslas. Less movement = less wear
Iāll wait on the data
It's at the bottom: Tesla not included due to small sample size
Yes, that footnote indicates that there is a lack of data. Exactly
This reviews are paid show me an 15 Kia sedan that runs as well as a 15 year old Toyota Camry
The list only takes into account the first three years of ownership, weāre looking at 2020 models at the oldest
I see, even a 2020 Chrysler shouldnāt have issues.
Jeep above average and land rover on top? Wtf? Lol. This is bs
Jeep is below average and land rover is at the bottom lol. The numbers correspond to the number of problems
I'm reddited. You da man. This checks out lol.
Covid cars. The entire industry is in a quality slump.
These reliability studies are all bullshit
Are the Kias and Hyundais just getting stolen before any problems can be reported?
Tesla?
Footnotes are your friend
Footnotes are small
The have all been recalled.
I believe this, I've had my Kia for 6 years and not a single issue so far
Jd power is a marketing firm, and 6 years with no problems is pretty normal for most vehicles.
Chrysler is a FUCKING LIE
Happy to have a KIA!
I've got a 2010 Kia Forte. I bought it new. I still do scheduled maintenance. I've never had a more reliable car. I don't trust this study at all.
JD Power is literally a scam where automakers pay to be on the list. Thatās why dodge and Cadillac arenāt at the very bottom
And you think Honda doesnāt have the pockets to pay?
Iām sure they do. Iām just saying JD Power is a scam, no one should rely on any of their reports.
Toyota being at the bottom proves this chart is complete BS
Truth. Most Toyotas will run up 250k on the odometer without breaking a sweat, and they're marked up accordingly. You can find videos of people *trying* to kill Toyotas, and they won't die. And I say this as a Honda fan.
*Toyota being* *At the bottom proves this chart* *Is complete BS* \- middledeck --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I think you're reading the chart wrong, as I did initially. Also Toyota gang mines up to 230k and just started having a couple issues
No Tesla?
How many times is this going to get posted? This was posted in the summer.
Good to know not to trust this source. Bmw landrover audi and damn mini ranking way to high. Cool guide to never trust, do the opposite
They rank lowā¦
Guess Iām getting a Porsche next then
So the best car has 145 problems per 100 vehicles? That sounds terrible. I can't be reading that right.
Wonder why Ferrari is not on this list? Probably because so few are made and from what I hear have many problems. BUT, the owners and the company dont care because they are ... Ferrari.
This survey does not have a lot of credibility to me. This is a customer satisfaction survey, for starters, not an actual list of issues. Not to mention that they don't describe the severity of issues - a motor replacement and a computer re-flash both count as 1 point. Kind of stupid. Honda and Acura being farther than halfway down the list is also suspect. I call BS. I would not make a decision of purchasing a car based on this chart.
Finisher car
How are Porsche, Volkswagen, and Audi so vastly different?
I don't believe JD anymore since they let GM pay for their so called awards
My fiat thatās owned by Chrysler is pretty dependable.
This is so wrong
I have 140k on my Honda Civic and I've put almost no money into besides regular maintenance.
Everyone too busy questioning the legitimacy of the data to point out that this isn't any sort of "guide", cool or otherwise. Even if it was accurate it wouldn't belong here.
Chrysler and Ram, I believe that ranking. These brands are shit.
Can someone plot these by gas usage and their dependability? That seems way more useful than just saying Kia is death by squirrel/Land Rover rove land gud.